Off The Hook - 2025-06-25

[00:20.390 --> 00:21.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're sorry.
[00:22.070 --> 00:26.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: The long-distance company access code you dialed must be preceded by the digits 950.
[00:27.450 --> 00:29.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: Please hang up and try your call again.
[00:29.670 --> 00:30.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[00:36.030 --> 00:40.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:41.470 --> 00:45.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:46.630 --> 00:51.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[02:14.240 --> 02:17.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:18.800 --> 02:21.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's another edition of Off the Heat.
[02:22.560 --> 02:23.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, that's wrong.
[02:23.720 --> 02:24.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's wrong.
[02:24.500 --> 02:25.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Off The Hook.
[02:25.880 --> 02:26.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Heat on the Mind.
[02:27.220 --> 02:32.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, stifling with Kyle on the other side of the studio.
[02:33.220 --> 02:35.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, from time to time.
[02:35.360 --> 02:39.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: This generates all kinds of high temperatures with all the electronic equipment.
[02:40.260 --> 02:44.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have out in Signal-land, looks like Alex.
[02:45.940 --> 02:49.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: You do, and happy Thursday from Germany.
[02:50.160 --> 02:51.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're in Germany now?
[02:51.220 --> 02:51.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[02:51.740 --> 02:52.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I am in Germany.
[02:52.580 --> 02:53.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm in Dusseldorf.
[02:53.600 --> 02:55.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're just trying to hit all the countries.
[02:55.600 --> 02:56.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: All the countries.
[02:56.640 --> 02:57.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, why not?
[02:57.680 --> 02:58.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know?
[02:58.220 --> 02:59.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, somebody has to.
[02:59.560 --> 03:03.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Somebody just has to make sure things are going all right outside the United States.
[03:03.140 --> 03:04.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, well, I could have saved you a lot of time.
[03:04.820 --> 03:07.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're not going all right, but we don't have time.
[03:07.740 --> 03:09.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: We also are joined by Rob T. Firefly.
[03:11.120 --> 03:14.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening from today, from right here in Queens.
[03:14.920 --> 03:16.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And Gila, also, I believe, in Queens.
[03:17.360 --> 03:17.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Also, yes.
[03:18.020 --> 03:18.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening from Queens.
[03:19.100 --> 03:20.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're sitting right next to him, so I made that assumption.
[03:22.860 --> 03:38.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, speaking of assumptions, I can't believe I have to say this, but, you know, we had this whole thing with Real ID, and everybody had to get, you know, an enhanced license or a passport card or something so that they could get on airplanes again.
[03:38.180 --> 03:38.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's the payoff.
[03:40.160 --> 03:45.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, and I guess, you know, it's important to clarify this, because apparently the message has not gotten through.
[03:45.660 --> 03:50.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your Costco membership card is not, in fact, a valid form of Real ID.
[03:51.840 --> 03:53.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Apparently, many people think it is.
[03:53.900 --> 04:04.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how this ever got started, but the TSA is clarifying that this particular type of identification is no good in that particular situation.
[04:04.840 --> 04:08.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if it was ever good for anything.
[04:08.740 --> 04:10.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's barely good to get into a Costco.
[04:11.240 --> 04:16.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: They print your picture on a card, and you can wipe it off with your thumb.
[04:18.240 --> 04:28.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: We love hot dogs and rotisserie chickens as much as the next person, but please, stop telling people their Costco card counts as a Real ID, because it absolutely does not.
[04:28.040 --> 04:31.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: That was an actual post by the TSA on Twitter.
[04:32.440 --> 04:46.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Although membership cards for the bulk supply grocery store chain are technically photo IDs, the cards are not a federally-issued identification or a state-issued enhanced driver's license, and so they do not meet the Real ID standard.
[04:46.980 --> 04:52.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: You cannot fly on hot dogs and hope, said the TSA on its Instagram account.
[04:52.320 --> 04:53.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: They went all out.
[04:53.500 --> 05:01.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your Costco Gold Star membership card might score you a 48-pack of TP, but it won't get you through a TSA checkpoint.
[05:02.160 --> 05:02.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't believe us?
[05:03.100 --> 05:03.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Try it.
[05:04.020 --> 05:04.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Try us out.
[05:04.960 --> 05:05.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're here.
[05:06.860 --> 05:11.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the theory... I don't want to dwell on this, but it's just... it's a really weird story.
[05:11.920 --> 05:21.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: The theory of presenting a Costco card to get past TSA might have originated with how the agency is trying to help passengers without a valid Real ID try to confirm their identity another way.
[05:21.940 --> 05:33.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: The agency has previously advised travelers without a proper Real ID to still come to the airport with some form of identification showing their name and address, such as a regular old driver's license.
[05:34.400 --> 05:42.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Using these IDs and other methods, the TSA can help process a traveler without a Real ID, although flyers should not rely on that option as a guarantee.
[05:42.820 --> 05:50.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: The Costco confusion has likely only affected a small number of air travelers, as 93% of flyers who show up at the airport have a valid Real ID.
[05:52.240 --> 05:57.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: The rules went into effect on May 7th, and so far they say enforcement has been running smoothly.
[05:57.840 --> 05:58.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do we all have our Real IDs?
[06:01.340 --> 06:02.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: We certainly do.
[06:02.460 --> 06:03.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: We do.
[06:03.240 --> 06:08.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't we go through this, though, that I was the only person among us who had upgraded to Real ID?
[06:08.300 --> 06:10.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody else had a passport, a passport card, something.
[06:10.840 --> 06:15.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the only person who has a license from the state of New York with a star on it.
[06:15.460 --> 06:21.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: But, Emmanuel, since you brought this up, I did take a look at the TSA's Instagram post.
[06:21.460 --> 06:30.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: And what people are sharing is that anecdotally, in the pre-Real ID days, apparently you could use your Costco card as a form of identification.
[06:31.620 --> 06:33.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't qualify now.
[06:33.480 --> 06:33.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[06:33.760 --> 06:36.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: But 10 years ago, people were doing that.
[06:36.480 --> 06:47.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I think it's silly knowing that I used to work with someone who specifically had his Costco card picture taken in profile so he could share it with coworkers.
[06:47.640 --> 06:53.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Any white man with short, dark hair could use this man's Costco card and did on a regular basis.
[06:53.700 --> 06:58.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: He then sent me with it once, and I am not any of those things.
[07:00.540 --> 07:06.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they left 60 gallons of ice cream to melt because I was the only person in the world who couldn't use this Costco card.
[07:08.180 --> 07:17.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, it's odd, I think, but knowing, again, that anecdotal piece of information, it's not as out of left field as it seems.
[07:18.120 --> 07:19.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: At least it has a picture.
[07:19.760 --> 07:23.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if somebody was trying to get through with a library card, that might be more of an issue.
[07:25.500 --> 07:29.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I really wish he hadn't mentioned 60 gallons of ice cream, but I'm trying to get past that.
[07:30.580 --> 07:31.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Kyle.
[07:31.780 --> 07:34.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I maintain that flying is still torture.
[07:35.200 --> 07:35.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is torture.
[07:36.180 --> 07:36.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's torture enough.
[07:37.140 --> 07:42.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's... for the last 25 years, 24 years, it has been made a living hell.
[07:43.100 --> 07:45.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not worth it, in my opinion.
[07:45.420 --> 07:49.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think Alex has something to say about that, because I'm pretty sure you took an airplane to get where you are.
[07:49.800 --> 07:50.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I did.
[07:50.520 --> 07:53.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I took an airplane from New York to London.
[07:53.700 --> 07:58.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I was in London from Thursday until...
[07:59.200 --> 08:00.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: When did I get here?
[08:00.340 --> 08:00.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[08:00.900 --> 08:01.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Tuesday.
[08:01.660 --> 08:03.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I got here in Germany Tuesday night.
[08:03.520 --> 08:04.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, did you take the train?
[08:04.880 --> 08:07.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I did, and I took trains from...
[08:07.500 --> 08:08.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not the train.
[08:08.460 --> 08:12.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I took several trains from London to Dusseldorf.
[08:12.240 --> 08:13.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You didn't take the Eurostar?
[08:14.220 --> 08:15.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: I did take the Eurostar.
[08:15.480 --> 08:16.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Then you took the train.
[08:16.320 --> 08:22.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: I took the train, but then I took the train, the Eurostar, from London to Brussels.
[08:22.800 --> 08:29.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then I took German regional trains from Brussels to Cologne, and then from Cologne to Dusseldorf.
[08:30.080 --> 08:39.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then I had to take a car from Dusseldorf to Dusseldorf, kind of Haufbahnstrasse, or into the train station there.
[08:41.160 --> 08:46.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: And to about an hour, hour and a half away to where I am right now, kind of a bit in the countryside.
[08:46.440 --> 08:49.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're saying you found a place in Germany where a train does not go?
[08:50.080 --> 08:50.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[08:50.760 --> 08:51.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: I am.
[08:51.300 --> 08:51.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I am indeed.
[08:53.400 --> 08:56.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: But technically, I'm pretty close to Dusseldorf.
[08:56.540 --> 08:59.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's where I say I am.
[08:59.820 --> 08:59.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[09:00.020 --> 09:03.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, in case you don't know, we are experiencing the tail end of a heat wave here in New York.
[09:05.480 --> 09:07.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: But hey, we might have a socialist mayor.
[09:07.540 --> 09:10.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's all kinds of balance of good and bad.
[09:12.620 --> 09:13.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's been rough.
[09:13.700 --> 09:14.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's been rough.
[09:14.220 --> 09:15.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we're trying to get through this.
[09:15.460 --> 09:16.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is off the hook.
[09:16.720 --> 09:19.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're only on for an hour tonight on WBAI.
[09:19.540 --> 09:23.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: We usually do a show called Overtime on YouTube that follows.
[09:23.640 --> 09:30.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: The reason we're only on for the on-air broadcast is because we're taking phone calls here at WBAI.
[09:30.580 --> 09:33.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not with the usual WBAI phone number.
[09:33.460 --> 09:37.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: So if you're already dialing, stop right now because you won't reach us.
[09:37.740 --> 09:39.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a special phone number to call.
[09:39.780 --> 09:41.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm about to give you that phone number.
[09:42.740 --> 09:43.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ready?
[09:43.640 --> 09:43.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[09:44.200 --> 09:47.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-4225.
[09:49.100 --> 09:51.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-HACK is our phone number.
[09:51.640 --> 10:02.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you have anything you'd like to say to us or anything you'd like to share in the world of technology or hacking or artificial intelligence or any of that stuff.
[10:04.040 --> 10:08.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And while we wait for the phone to ring, I'm going to read a letter.
[10:09.280 --> 10:11.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is from our friend...
[10:12.700 --> 10:13.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know what?
[10:14.700 --> 10:15.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[10:15.380 --> 10:16.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Our friend Christian.
[10:16.880 --> 10:17.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's...
[10:17.280 --> 10:18.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here it is.
[10:18.660 --> 10:22.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: First of all, you are in no way leaning too much to the left.
[10:22.660 --> 10:24.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we were accused of that.
[10:24.200 --> 10:28.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: But if anything, I could criticize you for leaning towards the right.
[10:28.680 --> 10:31.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: For example, when it comes to blockchain technologies.
[10:31.740 --> 10:34.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know there was a left or a right with blockchain technologies.
[10:35.060 --> 10:40.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: I figure it's just, you know, common sense and not common sense.
[10:40.200 --> 10:41.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm not going to say what side I'm on.
[10:41.680 --> 10:42.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: So there.
[10:42.740 --> 10:47.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: What I'm missing personally are positive stories about using technology for the good.
[10:47.080 --> 10:50.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: How can we fight against fascism with technology?
[10:50.360 --> 10:55.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: For example, there is the Albenor SRP Plus.
[10:55.100 --> 11:02.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: A bus with lots of more or less tech gadgets on there to help with anti-fascist protests.
[11:03.040 --> 11:07.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyhow, one issue why I can't come to hope this year is that it's in the wrong New York.
[11:08.080 --> 11:09.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what that means, the wrong New York.
[11:10.240 --> 11:13.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Apparently, it's in the one next to Fisher's Island.
[11:13.800 --> 11:15.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I don't know what that means either.
[11:15.260 --> 11:17.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Fisher's Island is an island off the coast of Long Island.
[11:19.820 --> 11:21.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, okay, I'm trying to follow here.
[11:21.820 --> 11:23.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a whole ocean between here and that.
[11:24.880 --> 11:26.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, where's the right New York?
[11:27.480 --> 11:29.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: New York is on the other side of the ocean.
[11:30.060 --> 11:30.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: So there you go.
[11:32.180 --> 11:32.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's...
[11:32.580 --> 11:34.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I just got a virtual ticket.
[11:35.360 --> 11:36.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's fine.
[11:36.440 --> 11:39.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: About that idea of a telephone switch in a cereal box.
[11:39.520 --> 11:40.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we've moved on to this topic now.
[11:41.640 --> 11:44.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: There actually was a market for that in Germany.
[11:45.260 --> 11:49.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Since it was illegal to connect telephones in parallel, you could listen in on calls then.
[11:50.040 --> 11:58.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: There were both simple switches allowing only one phone to be used, but also more advanced ones enabling internal phone calls.
[11:59.020 --> 12:06.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: When ISDN came around, those systems became even more popular as ISDN phones were expensive and you got three phone numbers by default.
[12:06.820 --> 12:12.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: So cheap four-line PBXs like the Telnet Charlie from Telebau came about.
[12:12.740 --> 12:13.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what that is.
[12:13.880 --> 12:18.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: For businesses, you would get a rebate if you get ISDN and bought a PBX.
[12:18.980 --> 12:20.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: That rebate was 800 Deutschmarks.
[12:21.120 --> 12:25.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: So smaller PBXs were available for just a bit more than that.
[12:25.880 --> 12:28.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: A typical example was the Eurocom 181 and its relatives.
[12:29.740 --> 12:35.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Those have eight analog lines and if you remove the case, would just about fit into a cereal box.
[12:35.860 --> 12:39.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want it to go bigger, there's the Commander Basic or Commander Basic 2.
[12:39.980 --> 12:46.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: The 2 adds a web interface as well as the ability to add a PMX card allowing for 30-channel ISDN.
[12:46.700 --> 12:56.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: It can also do 24 internal S0 buses or 32 analog ports with a total maximum for 48 internal channels and 34 external channels.
[12:56.940 --> 13:00.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: That, however, is on the larger side as cereal boxes go.
[13:00.140 --> 13:02.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, since support has expired, they are cheap.
[13:03.000 --> 13:09.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want to have ISDN connections to the rest of the world, there's the Oct01 network.
[13:10.400 --> 13:11.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe that's an I.
[13:11.500 --> 13:12.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Octoi network.
[13:12.320 --> 13:16.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which can get you a fully compatible ISDN primary multiplex via TCP IP.
[13:16.980 --> 13:19.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can obviously do things like video telephony over it.
[13:20.080 --> 13:25.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sign-up is currently limited as, due to software issues, every new line consumes about 10% of a CPU, even when idle.
[13:26.260 --> 13:29.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, the good solution is to get a proper public telephone switch.
[13:29.580 --> 13:41.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: For example, at 38C3, someone brought in an EWSD, which was capable of thousands of lines, and offered external concentrators, but that was even overkill at 38C3.
[13:41.020 --> 13:44.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the German conference over in Berlin, ah, in Hamburg.
[13:44.940 --> 13:50.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, Christian, for that informative letter, if very technical for most of our listeners.
[13:51.040 --> 13:56.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe, Kyle, the person hung up because I heard the off-hook tone while you were out of the room.
[13:56.480 --> 13:57.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's nobody on the line now.
[13:58.120 --> 14:02.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, if you could hang up that phone, we'll get the phone number again, 802-321-4225.
[14:04.540 --> 14:07.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: I need to sweat a little bit, so if someone else, please say something.
[14:10.760 --> 14:11.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Really?
[14:11.260 --> 14:12.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Nobody has a word to say?
[14:14.320 --> 14:15.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, wait, I'm sorry.
[14:15.460 --> 14:16.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: I hate you pouted down.
[14:16.480 --> 14:17.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how you got pouted down.
[14:18.740 --> 14:20.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm losing my senses here.
[14:20.600 --> 14:21.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Alex.
[14:21.880 --> 14:22.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[14:22.580 --> 14:29.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to talk... I mean, we love to talk about trains here, so I'll dispel some stereotypes about trains here.
[14:29.620 --> 14:32.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, everybody thinks everything runs on time in Germany.
[14:32.480 --> 14:39.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: The trains were running perfectly fine from London, for me, over to Brussels, got there right on time.
[14:39.300 --> 14:43.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: But then these German trains that I was on, they were all late.
[14:43.700 --> 14:51.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: And apparently, people who really understand German trains and the way they run is that German trains are very, very often late.
[14:51.700 --> 14:59.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so, the first train that I was on that went from Brussels to Cologne was...
[14:59.040 --> 15:04.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't even understand how it got so late, but it wound up getting into Cologne about 20 minutes late, 25 minutes late.
[15:04.860 --> 15:15.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: At which point, I was about... I had literally about 90 seconds to get off the train to my next connection, which was taking me to Dusseldorf, which is about a half hour away.
[15:16.100 --> 15:20.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, I ran over there thinking, you know, I'm going to try to make it.
[15:21.820 --> 15:34.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: And lo and behold, I get up to the platform, exactly where I'm supposed to be, and the train that I'm supposed to be on is now 20 minutes late, getting into the station.
[15:34.300 --> 15:35.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sounds like they're working with you.
[15:35.720 --> 15:37.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're working with you there.
[15:37.340 --> 15:39.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Make everything 20 minutes late, so you won't miss a connection.
[15:39.900 --> 15:41.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's exactly right, yeah.
[15:41.500 --> 15:46.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, two of these German trains were late, and apparently, they have a reputation for being very, very late.
[15:46.640 --> 15:52.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: But yet, everybody has this preconceived notion that the Germans are so very precise about everything.
[15:53.020 --> 15:57.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't understand how they can have that kind of reputation and have these trains that don't run on time at all.
[15:58.000 --> 16:01.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, the Germans are not precise regarding time.
[16:01.400 --> 16:03.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: The Swiss are, not the Germans.
[16:03.200 --> 16:04.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's get it clear.
[16:05.020 --> 16:06.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's time.
[16:06.320 --> 16:09.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody, everybody complains about the trains in their country.
[16:09.280 --> 16:09.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody.
[16:10.120 --> 16:12.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, no matter how good, in Japan, they complain about their trains.
[16:13.000 --> 16:13.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Except the Swiss.
[16:13.940 --> 16:15.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Swiss trains always do run on time.
[16:15.820 --> 16:19.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: They complain if their trains are a minute late, they won't complain.
[16:19.820 --> 16:20.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not kidding.
[16:20.300 --> 16:21.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right, if they're late.
[16:21.320 --> 16:21.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[16:21.540 --> 16:24.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because that would be an aberration if a Swiss train was late.
[16:24.820 --> 16:26.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Swiss trains, they do run on time.
[16:26.340 --> 16:33.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: As long as we're talking about this, I just want to say, I am super impressed with the technology of our mass transit here in New York.
[16:34.120 --> 16:37.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because you can do so much now that you could not do 10 years ago.
[16:37.720 --> 16:41.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was tracking LIRR trains the other day.
[16:41.720 --> 16:44.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you can see every single one on a map in real time.
[16:44.560 --> 16:45.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can see where it is.
[16:45.720 --> 16:46.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can see how fast it's going.
[16:47.700 --> 16:49.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just the most amazing technology.
[16:49.880 --> 16:51.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know it's standard now.
[16:51.580 --> 16:54.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: But we can still be amazed by it.
[16:55.380 --> 17:04.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's really cool to see how much it's advanced and how much it can advance in the future with more capacity, expansion of all sorts.
[17:05.200 --> 17:08.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a model for other cities in this country and even in the world.
[17:09.240 --> 17:12.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, it's IoT, Internet of Trains.
[17:12.520 --> 17:13.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, exactly.
[17:14.060 --> 17:17.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's actually, you know, for those of you who are into trains, a little promotion here.
[17:18.040 --> 17:20.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a new camera that's up in Woodside.
[17:20.520 --> 17:24.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you go to YouTube, type Woodside LIRR, you'll see a live camera.
[17:24.940 --> 17:26.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's no sound yet, but there will be.
[17:26.640 --> 17:30.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you see how busy our train system is.
[17:30.260 --> 17:33.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And finally, I feel proud of the cameras that I'm able to see.
[17:33.720 --> 17:34.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: They don't have ads either, which is great.
[17:35.240 --> 17:38.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you're able to see all the LIRR trains and the No.
[17:38.180 --> 17:39.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: 7 train going by as well.
[17:39.900 --> 17:41.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just simply incredible.
[17:41.520 --> 17:44.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they have this little notice that tells you what train is coming.
[17:45.540 --> 17:48.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's color-coded just like the LIRR is.
[17:48.200 --> 17:56.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: But this is something interesting because I engaged the help of artificial intelligence, which I've been doing a lot lately and having good results.
[17:57.880 --> 18:08.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: I noticed that on westbound trains heading to Penn Station or to Grand Central, the background color of the sign that tells you a train is approaching is always white.
[18:08.320 --> 18:10.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: But the lettering is a different color.
[18:11.200 --> 18:12.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I looked everywhere.
[18:12.240 --> 18:17.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: I asked everybody, why is the lettering a different color when it's going to the same place?
[18:17.940 --> 18:23.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I searched on Google and got all kinds of wrong answers.
[18:23.480 --> 18:31.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: I asked artificial intelligence and I got this really detailed explanation that that color explains where the train came from.
[18:32.100 --> 18:35.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: In other words, if it came from Huntington, it would say Penn Station in blue.
[18:35.760 --> 18:37.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: If it came from Ronkakama, it would be in purple.
[18:39.080 --> 18:42.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Basically, every line has its own color.
[18:43.400 --> 18:46.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's some questions as to why you would need to know where the train came from.
[18:46.240 --> 18:49.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: But that at least explained it in a way that nobody else could.
[18:50.740 --> 18:51.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we also...
[18:51.680 --> 18:59.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Kyle and I had an interesting adventure with an espresso machine over the past week where it had to be taken apart and put back together.
[18:59.420 --> 19:01.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it would not go back together.
[19:01.200 --> 19:02.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was physically impossible.
[19:02.860 --> 19:10.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: We both concluded that until we asked AI, giving the specific brand and explaining the problem.
[19:10.560 --> 19:13.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: It agreed that this was indeed a challenge.
[19:13.280 --> 19:15.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: And here's a trick that might work.
[19:16.140 --> 19:16.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[19:16.860 --> 19:28.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: The tolerances for reassembly required you to tighten and reassemble it within like millimeter tolerances so that certain things wouldn't collide and be out of place.
[19:29.140 --> 19:38.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: But one tip in the result that we got was to carefully bend a component that was actually malleable.
[19:38.320 --> 19:39.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could bend it.
[19:39.380 --> 19:41.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if the hot weather helped.
[19:41.160 --> 19:48.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I did just that and got it right in a position that worked where I could fasten everything in the proper way.
[19:48.340 --> 19:57.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this small sensor and tube connected to it were in a different place than originally designed.
[19:57.180 --> 20:12.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it required less millimeter tolerances so that I could get the thing reassembled in a way that worked for me, but was maybe out of spec from the factory, which it was just buried in the results.
[20:12.080 --> 20:17.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: But all the stuff I would have searched for was basically saying that, like, yeah, this is a rite of passage.
[20:17.440 --> 20:23.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to just deal and do this way and that way and hold your mouth open the right way.
[20:23.460 --> 20:25.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, it just it was pretty funny.
[20:25.640 --> 20:45.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: But as soon as I took that step to bend something that was just sort of an additional method but required great care, I realized, wow, this is the one thing, the one variable that I can really change to any level, as long as it's not touching anything else and not in the way,
[20:45.680 --> 20:46.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: and I'll be satisfied.
[20:46.980 --> 20:48.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it actually it worked quite well.
[20:48.680 --> 20:52.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was no human we could ask for that information.
[20:52.060 --> 20:55.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: There was there is no message board that contained it.
[20:55.740 --> 21:00.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: And again, a search engine was absolutely useless and calling the company wasn't possible because it was the weekend.
[21:01.180 --> 21:07.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's that, you know, aha moment where you realize, wow, it understood what I meant exactly.
[21:07.900 --> 21:11.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's giving me very detailed instructions.
[21:11.420 --> 21:12.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's actually helpful.
[21:12.760 --> 21:30.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've seen this work with car repair and a whole range of particular devices that are broken in one way or another, and just to be able to have something constantly explain to you what might work and get it right.
[21:30.160 --> 21:31.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: That is amazing.
[21:31.760 --> 21:32.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: We should not be afraid of AI.
[21:33.160 --> 21:36.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: We should just know when to use it and when to reject it.
[21:36.520 --> 21:41.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the comprehensive results, I think, are the takeaway for me.
[21:41.920 --> 21:48.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: And of course, use within your own limitations and your boundaries, you know, and protect your private information.
[21:49.060 --> 22:01.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: But asking general questions and getting such comprehensive results that actually glean the best tips and the best answers from all kinds of sources out there and weighs them in ways that you just don't have the time.
[22:01.760 --> 22:19.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like you couldn't sift through and find that one tip and have it in a comprehensive way unless you're diligently taking notes and going through pages and pages and deep, deep search results that, as we've noted and a lot of people have realized, aren't as great these days.
[22:19.800 --> 22:37.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if that's intentional because the search companies want people to use AI assistance, but it really is a time saver to get that much of a comprehensive, like I said, distillation of what's out there about a particular question.
[22:37.660 --> 22:39.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, I believe we have a phone call.
[22:39.460 --> 22:44.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: I also believe that the hum came back because that's what the phone company does out here is give us a hum.
[22:45.000 --> 22:47.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think if we touch something, it goes away.
[22:47.200 --> 22:48.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: So let's see if we can...
[22:48.500 --> 22:53.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the hum is there, but can we touch something and make it maybe go away a little bit?
[22:53.320 --> 22:53.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[22:53.880 --> 22:54.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[22:54.140 --> 22:55.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there somebody on the phone line?
[22:56.540 --> 22:56.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[22:57.660 --> 23:02.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Will it be possible to buy tickets for the Hope Conference in person at St. John's?
[23:02.500 --> 23:03.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe so.
[23:03.880 --> 23:04.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe so.
[23:06.100 --> 23:06.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[23:07.180 --> 23:10.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it shouldn't be a problem because I haven't been able to get a ticket online yet.
[23:11.120 --> 23:17.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I shouldn't have a problem getting it in person on Friday the first day if I show up early.
[23:17.760 --> 23:21.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the way it's worked in the past, so I don't see that being changed.
[23:21.900 --> 23:22.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[23:22.460 --> 23:23.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hope to be there.
[23:23.520 --> 23:23.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[23:24.120 --> 23:24.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that it?
[23:25.080 --> 23:25.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[23:25.560 --> 23:26.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for your call.
[23:26.320 --> 23:26.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's it.
[23:26.560 --> 23:26.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Take care.
[23:26.860 --> 23:30.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: 8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-2-5 is our phone number.
[23:30.640 --> 23:32.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Please give us a call.
[23:32.680 --> 23:44.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: And any questions about technology or hackers or artificial intelligence or whatnot, we are here sweltering away in our various hot locations.
[23:45.400 --> 23:45.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[23:46.000 --> 23:46.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anything from...
[23:46.460 --> 23:47.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to get through a couple calls.
[23:47.880 --> 23:49.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to get through...
[23:49.080 --> 23:49.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, here's another one.
[23:49.720 --> 23:50.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: ...three calls.
[23:50.420 --> 23:51.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: The home wasn't so bad.
[23:51.840 --> 23:52.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[23:52.240 --> 23:52.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[23:52.680 --> 23:53.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll get through it.
[23:55.040 --> 23:57.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to pick that up, Kyle, and let's pick up the phone.
[23:57.160 --> 23:58.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we've got to catch up, so let's get a couple calls.
[23:59.100 --> 24:00.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook.
[24:00.280 --> 24:00.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[24:02.200 --> 24:02.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Speak up, please.
[24:03.080 --> 24:03.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[24:05.400 --> 24:06.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is anyone there?
[24:07.540 --> 24:07.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello?
[24:08.100 --> 24:08.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, you're on the air.
[24:09.840 --> 24:10.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, wow.
[24:10.700 --> 24:10.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[24:11.160 --> 24:11.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: How are you doing?
[24:11.780 --> 24:11.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's great.
[24:12.040 --> 24:12.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: I just called.
[24:12.720 --> 24:13.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm good.
[24:13.480 --> 24:14.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sweating in Flatbush.
[24:15.460 --> 24:15.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Flatbush.
[24:15.920 --> 24:16.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[24:16.300 --> 24:16.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[24:17.220 --> 24:19.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's going to get better tomorrow right here, so...
[24:19.960 --> 24:20.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's what I hear.
[24:21.640 --> 24:28.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's also time, apparently, for them to do, in my building, an elevator repair, so...
[24:28.120 --> 24:28.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[24:28.620 --> 24:30.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's sort of crisis upon crisis.
[24:30.720 --> 24:32.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: In any event...
[24:32.980 --> 24:36.880]  [SPEAKER_13]: Gee, I didn't think I'd get through so fast, because there were a couple of busy signals.
[24:37.160 --> 24:38.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: I caught off guard.
[24:38.400 --> 24:39.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You actually got a busy signal?
[24:39.780 --> 24:40.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[24:40.960 --> 24:42.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: I did, and it was a great...
[24:42.620 --> 24:45.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was like a recorded message from, I think, from you.
[24:47.180 --> 24:51.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's probably something that was recorded years ago that we have no idea where it is.
[24:52.480 --> 24:52.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[24:52.800 --> 24:55.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, it's like, you can leave a message if you want, or call back.
[24:55.920 --> 24:57.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's pretty funny, actually.
[24:57.720 --> 24:58.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'll have to call it.
[24:58.500 --> 24:58.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll have to call it.
[24:58.720 --> 25:16.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: But the reason why I called is I tried renewing my license, and I was wondering if you knew anybody who was questioning the, what seems to be a scam of the enhanced ID.
[25:17.080 --> 25:19.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry if this, if you all talked about this.
[25:19.460 --> 25:20.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm not aware.
[25:20.460 --> 25:21.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not aware of this scam.
[25:21.580 --> 25:23.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: What, what, what, what are the details of the scam?
[25:24.260 --> 25:34.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: It just seems like a money-making thing, because if you go to the DMV, as you know, you fill out the form, and what I saw was, there were two options.
[25:34.980 --> 25:38.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can get the real ID, or the enhanced ID.
[25:39.480 --> 25:55.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it says, enhanced ID allows you to get into the, I forget what the word was they used, but basically the contiguous or continental North America, so you could cross Canada, evidently.
[25:55.480 --> 25:57.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it acts like a passport card.
[25:57.520 --> 26:08.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're basically tacking on the, the usability of a passport card to your license, because the way it works, the passport, the passport card allows you to cross land borders into Canada and into Mexico.
[26:08.860 --> 26:12.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: However, it does not allow you to fly to Canada.
[26:12.940 --> 26:14.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: You need a passport for that.
[26:14.980 --> 26:17.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, that's something to keep in mind.
[26:17.220 --> 26:24.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, it seemed like a redundant, like you already, you need your passport in any event, but I guess what you're saying is you can drive, is that the...
[26:24.440 --> 26:30.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you don't need your passport, you don't, you don't need your passport for driving or walking into a neighboring country.
[26:30.740 --> 26:31.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[26:31.560 --> 26:31.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[26:32.060 --> 26:41.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that seems to apply to a very select group of people, maybe students or what, I don't know, people who are on the border and cross for work or whatever it is.
[26:41.920 --> 26:47.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: But it's, you know, I just, it's like sometimes people are just like, get me the, give me the work.
[26:47.520 --> 26:49.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, you look at a menu and you're like, just give me whatever.
[26:49.880 --> 26:51.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, it might work for someone.
[26:51.400 --> 26:52.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Agila, you have something on this.
[26:52.560 --> 26:52.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[26:52.680 --> 26:53.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[26:53.460 --> 26:53.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[26:53.660 --> 26:59.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: The advantage of an enhanced driver's license in the state of New York is that it costs more money.
[27:00.080 --> 27:04.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, there is no additional fee to upgrade to a real ID.
[27:05.620 --> 27:12.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: There is, I mean, there's still driver's license fees or state ID fees, but there's not an additional fee for getting just a real ID.
[27:12.880 --> 27:20.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Truth of the matter is, at least in New York state, if you have a passport and or a passport card, an enhanced ID is a way to say, hey, I had 30 extra bucks lying around.
[27:21.320 --> 27:23.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't think it is useful.
[27:23.820 --> 27:24.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it is helpful.
[27:25.120 --> 27:30.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, saying this as the one person on the panel who has upgraded to a real ID state license.
[27:30.780 --> 27:36.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, there is, um, uh, one advantage I can see to the passport card in that it does not have your actual address on it.
[27:36.820 --> 27:46.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: That has your name, whereas your license, and we've talked about this in the past, you apparently are required to have your address, your, your valid address, which I disagree with.
[27:46.160 --> 27:50.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think that's something that, uh, we are required as citizens to carry on us.
[27:51.100 --> 27:53.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but, uh, apparently some people, uh, embrace that.
[27:54.140 --> 27:54.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know.
[27:54.740 --> 27:56.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Which is absolutely an advantage of the passport card.
[27:56.920 --> 27:58.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, no caller.
[27:58.360 --> 27:59.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you were absolutely right.
[28:06.820 --> 28:17.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the enhanced ID is, uh, gilding the lily a little bit in a way that you don't necessarily need to, um, you know, scam is a loaded word, but I don't disagree.
[28:17.500 --> 28:18.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's all a scam.
[28:19.400 --> 28:20.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're paid for privacy.
[28:21.120 --> 28:21.180]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[28:21.420 --> 28:23.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: I, I, I, that's interesting.
[28:23.620 --> 28:31.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: Um, but if we could save any money from our listener, you know, from my fellow listeners, uh, it will have been worth it.
[28:31.340 --> 28:32.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you so much.
[28:32.160 --> 28:34.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: I appreciate, uh, everybody's work.
[28:34.460 --> 28:34.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[28:34.860 --> 28:35.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for your call.
[28:35.600 --> 28:35.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Take care.
[28:36.180 --> 28:36.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Bye.
[28:36.840 --> 28:40.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: 8-0-2-3-2-1-4-2-2-2-5.
[28:40.360 --> 28:52.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, it's, um, we wound up paying to give up our privacy so much, you know, all these, uh, enhanced tools just have more information, biometrics or, or personal data.
[28:53.100 --> 28:55.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's, um, it's really crazy.
[28:55.420 --> 28:58.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, there was, um, a story that came out, uh, this week.
[28:58.300 --> 29:07.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe, Rob, you found this story, uh, concerning what, um, um, what our, um, government wants now, uh, the U.S.
[29:07.780 --> 29:26.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Embassy in Dublin, uh, is tightening its visa requirements, uh, saying future applicants looking to visit the country will be required to divulge all social media usernames or handles of every platform they have used from the last five years on their visa application form.
[29:26.740 --> 29:34.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the, um, the embassy, uh, also said it wants people to, uh, set their social media profiles to public.
[29:35.880 --> 29:37.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, this is insane.
[29:38.660 --> 29:42.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right now, I consider this something that we have to fight back on.
[29:42.860 --> 29:49.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: You should not have to give out any of that information to anybody that you don't choose to give information out to.
[29:49.700 --> 29:54.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, first of all, are you now required to have social media accounts?
[29:54.540 --> 29:56.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you don't have a social media account, you're now suspicious?
[29:57.460 --> 29:59.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what's the penalty for saying no?
[30:00.380 --> 30:07.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't get to go to the United States, which isn't much of a penalty right now, but... Right, no, that you don't have one, even if you do.
[30:08.060 --> 30:09.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that a crime somehow?
[30:09.980 --> 30:14.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure, you know, they'll, they'll probably just kick you out of the country, but who knows?
[30:14.120 --> 30:14.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: They might attach penalties.
[30:15.100 --> 30:15.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Gila, go ahead.
[30:16.240 --> 30:21.640]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, as soon as Rob sent this up to the show, I responded within, I think, about 30 seconds.
[30:21.800 --> 30:27.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think it is very, very telling that they're rolling out this policy now.
[30:27.340 --> 30:30.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: They're rolling it out for specific visa applicants, right?
[30:31.080 --> 30:36.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: For study visas, for student visas, and for work visas, specifically in Ireland.
[30:37.140 --> 30:41.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a very specific reason that they're doing it in that country right now.
[30:41.200 --> 30:49.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason is why it's the same smoke screen that the current administration is hiding so much of what they're doing behind.
[30:49.180 --> 30:57.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason they're starting this in Ireland is because historically, Irish people have been very supportive of the Palestinians.
[30:58.940 --> 31:08.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're looking on people's social media for things they have said about Palestinians, about Israel, as an excuse not to let them into this country.
[31:08.760 --> 31:13.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, that's why I got so animated about it as soon as it went in.
[31:13.520 --> 31:14.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.
[31:14.440 --> 31:16.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: That was, that was the reasoning behind it.
[31:16.160 --> 31:18.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's no question in my mind.
[31:18.800 --> 31:23.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know this officially, but like, I can read between the lines on this.
[31:23.720 --> 31:35.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I will say this, as a Jewish person, as a pretty visibly Jewish person, this does not make me safer.
[31:36.640 --> 31:39.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not fighting anti-Semitism.
[31:40.520 --> 31:49.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the most ridiculous, performative, stupid policy that could possibly exist.
[31:49.240 --> 31:57.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that again, they're starting it on people who want to come to this country and work and study on what they've said in the past five years.
[31:58.880 --> 32:00.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's gross.
[32:01.140 --> 32:09.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I can't even sum up the number of people I've talked to who are going through this right now who can't come to this country, who want to come to this country.
[32:09.820 --> 32:13.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just too much of a risk, too unpleasant.
[32:13.800 --> 32:26.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, the, the, what you put forward as far as the reasoning why this is happening in Ireland, you know, you might doubt that, but you have to ask yourself, do we have a petty and vindictive administration right now?
[32:26.640 --> 32:27.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, we do.
[32:27.520 --> 32:29.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's no doubt about that.
[32:29.940 --> 32:33.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is exactly what they would do.
[32:33.520 --> 32:36.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't doubt it for a second now that, now that you've explained it.
[32:36.500 --> 32:36.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead, Rob.
[32:37.440 --> 32:46.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: The other thing this opens up is a massive vulnerability, because as we all know, anyone can start up a social media profile under any name with any photos they want.
[32:47.260 --> 33:00.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: So if there happens to be someone in Ireland that you want not to be able to come to this country, all you have to do is start up a garbage social media profile for them, put a bunch of incendiary political stuff and, uh, let it do its thing.
[33:00.200 --> 33:04.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because apparently that's enough to get people kicked away at the door of this country now.
[33:04.360 --> 33:19.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: So the, uh, the, the, the customs agent, uh, will find that particular social media handle because the person obviously isn't going to tell them, especially if they don't know it exists, but they're going to look it up and they'll find this person, uh,
[33:19.480 --> 33:22.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: with a unique name supposedly, and, uh, assume that it belongs to them.
[33:23.120 --> 33:25.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's a lot of work because it has to be a history.
[33:25.580 --> 33:31.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if it just got started a week ago, it might seem a little, uh, uh, suspicious, but you know, anything is possible these days.
[33:32.000 --> 33:41.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, what, what is a, what is a good tactic that we can help people adapt, uh, you know, uh, because it, this should not be tolerated.
[33:41.380 --> 33:42.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: This should not be tolerated.
[33:42.280 --> 33:43.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: What, what, what can people do?
[33:43.420 --> 33:57.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is there maybe some way that, uh, we can generate, um, uh, non-offensive quote unquote social media handles that have been around for a while that have followers and, you know, just fight back against this, this oppressiveness.
[33:57.580 --> 33:59.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's got to be a technical solution.
[34:00.800 --> 34:01.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[34:01.360 --> 34:13.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, there has long been the, uh, idea that if you're bringing a laptop, uh, across, uh, national borders, um, you set it to boot into say a sandbox OS where you don't have your actual personal stuff, just a couple of things to make it look believable,
[34:13.860 --> 34:17.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: a couple of family photos and maybe a browser with, uh, some random bookmarks.
[34:17.760 --> 34:22.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: So when they ask you to, uh, turn your laptop on at the border, you can do it.
[34:22.620 --> 34:26.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it looks like a laptop that's being used, but doesn't actually let them look at any of your important stuff.
[34:27.940 --> 34:35.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: We need some kind of a fake Facebook or something that fools them, uh, where you can create an account that supposedly has been there for a while.
[34:35.700 --> 34:37.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, at least it'll work for a little while.
[34:37.480 --> 34:38.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: Do we have a phone call?
[34:38.500 --> 34:38.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[34:39.360 --> 34:40.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: We are going back to the phones.
[34:40.720 --> 34:41.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[34:41.160 --> 34:42.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook.
[34:42.480 --> 34:42.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[34:44.700 --> 34:45.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, am I on?
[34:45.500 --> 34:45.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Cool.
[34:45.640 --> 34:45.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[34:50.700 --> 34:52.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: The use is for the passport card.
[34:52.700 --> 34:58.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, I was on the phone and I didn't hear the last five minutes of the conversation.
[34:58.380 --> 35:01.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I don't know if you can cover this, but you can have your passport.
[35:02.000 --> 35:03.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's proof of citizenship.
[35:03.520 --> 35:06.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: If your passport card, that should also be proof of citizenship, right?
[35:06.780 --> 35:07.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: It is.
[35:07.080 --> 35:07.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[35:07.540 --> 35:13.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: So if someone's looking at your document and walks off with it and you need to leave, you can leave, right?
[35:14.000 --> 35:14.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have a backup.
[35:14.980 --> 35:15.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[35:16.140 --> 35:16.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.
[35:16.560 --> 35:18.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: You shouldn't lose your passport, but yeah, you do have a backup.
[35:18.880 --> 35:20.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, you give them the passport card.
[35:21.020 --> 35:23.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: That proves your citizen just as much as a passport.
[35:23.520 --> 35:23.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[35:23.960 --> 35:24.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: You shouldn't lose that either.
[35:24.800 --> 35:26.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: But yes, I hear your point.
[35:27.560 --> 35:31.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: You should never lose your passport, but you can sacrifice the passport card.
[35:31.540 --> 35:32.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: So that's one use.
[35:33.260 --> 35:41.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the other thing, when you're coming back into a country, say you've, into this country, say you've wiped your phone so there's nothing on there for them to see.
[35:41.180 --> 35:42.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's also suspicious.
[35:42.560 --> 35:51.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is there some kind of program that will propagate your phone with like right wing media so that, you know, it doesn't look suspicious?
[35:52.000 --> 35:52.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[35:52.620 --> 35:52.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[35:53.040 --> 35:54.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: A Fox phone or something.
[35:54.400 --> 35:55.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the kind of thing we have to do.
[35:55.840 --> 36:01.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have to invent these things and think this way just to defeat them and have fun in the process.
[36:01.200 --> 36:02.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, do you have an idea?
[36:03.340 --> 36:03.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[36:03.780 --> 36:20.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, in terms of preventing agents from performing a search on your phone, you know, I think we talked about this perhaps a few months ago at this point, but one suggestion was to shut your phone off as you're going across the border because if you turn it back on,
[36:20.860 --> 36:26.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: then you're going to have to input your passcode and the government cannot compel you to input a passcode.
[36:26.340 --> 36:45.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: But what they can compel you to do is to use biometrics to open up your phone because compelling somebody to enter a passcode would essentially be tantamount to requiring somebody to testify against themselves, which the Fifth Amendment and it's right against self-incrimination prohibits.
[36:45.680 --> 37:00.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: But one thing that I found actually quite interesting because I've been crossing a lot of borders lately is that I realized that if you have an iPhone, you don't necessarily actually have to shut the entire phone off and reboot it if you want it to require a passcode.
[37:00.620 --> 37:20.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: All you have to do is actually make an effort to shut the phone off by holding the power button and the volume button together for some period of time until the SOS emergency call or the slide to power off option appear on the screen, at which point you can hit cancel.
[37:20.840 --> 37:34.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Then the next time you go to unlock your phone, it's going to always require a passcode, which looks a lot less suspicious than if your phone is completely powered down when you're crossing the border.
[37:34.240 --> 37:39.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: So all you have to do is make an effort to shut it down, make the moves to shut it down, but then cancel the shutdown.
[37:40.200 --> 37:44.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: And for some reason, an iPhone will then always require a passcode thereafter.
[37:45.040 --> 38:05.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it possible to have two passcodes, one passcode for normal situations, another passcode when you're trying to get past a dim-witted customs agent that believes that that's a passcode and boots into something that's completely innocent and doesn't have anything at all that would raise their interest?
[38:06.260 --> 38:07.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's not real.
[38:08.080 --> 38:10.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's a good thing to invent.
[38:10.900 --> 38:20.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: My other idea is a skin for your phone that basically mimics completely shattered screen, so that you have this.
[38:21.020 --> 38:23.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Your phone is completely broken, doesn't work, doesn't turn on.
[38:23.880 --> 38:27.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe you can even have something that looks like it's trying to turn on, but it doesn't.
[38:27.560 --> 38:29.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: What are they going to do, arrest you for having a broken phone?
[38:30.160 --> 38:32.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, that might be something else to look into.
[38:32.720 --> 38:34.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's go back to our caller.
[38:37.000 --> 38:37.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Caller, are you still there?
[38:40.040 --> 38:41.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you still there, Caller?
[38:42.000 --> 38:42.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yeah.
[38:42.760 --> 38:43.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just really quiet.
[38:44.080 --> 38:45.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm here with you, Emmanuel.
[38:45.280 --> 38:47.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: I heard you say something about two passcodes.
[38:47.780 --> 38:54.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought you had mentioned it on a previous show, and I think iPhone came out with a thing.
[38:54.820 --> 38:58.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, like, if you put the duress password in, it locks your... it encrypts your phone or something.
[38:59.140 --> 39:01.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: But anyway, I can't hear you guys, so I'll just go off the air and listen.
[39:01.980 --> 39:02.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.
[39:02.160 --> 39:02.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, thank you.
[39:03.620 --> 39:05.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: I hope we're not having that trouble with everybody.
[39:06.360 --> 39:08.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-4225.
[39:08.440 --> 39:15.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the idea is for the agents to not realize that they've been locked out, to think that everything is okay.
[39:16.140 --> 39:23.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, we're plotting and scheming to get around these things because these things are wrong, and they should not be forced on people.
[39:23.660 --> 39:26.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's... it's really offensive to see this kind of thing happen.
[39:27.680 --> 39:29.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-4225.
[39:29.580 --> 39:33.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a few minutes left, and hopefully we can fit in as many people as possible.
[39:34.380 --> 39:35.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we have another phone call.
[39:35.880 --> 39:36.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[39:36.620 --> 39:38.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook.
[39:38.280 --> 39:38.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[39:39.520 --> 39:47.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: When I went to Russia, they wanted to look at my phone at the border when I was crossing into Russia a couple years ago.
[39:47.540 --> 39:48.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: They did something with my phone.
[39:48.880 --> 39:49.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know why.
[39:49.720 --> 39:50.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't really want to ask him.
[39:50.960 --> 39:54.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't... You know, when you go to places like Russia, you don't kind of want to ask them questions.
[39:54.740 --> 40:00.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like, you know, you do what they say or like one of those countries like, you know, you do whatever you say or you don't come in, you know?
[40:00.460 --> 40:06.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: So next time I go this next month, I'll just, you know, casually ask them, you know, what do you do?
[40:06.460 --> 40:07.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm getting a beer.
[40:08.000 --> 40:09.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, good luck with that, Rebel.
[40:09.600 --> 40:17.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, I should warn you, you were in violation of your call ban, because you called twice last week on overtime, and we told you that that applies.
[40:18.200 --> 40:20.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: The ban will be carried over for an additional two weeks.
[40:20.780 --> 40:24.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, if you're in Russia, that will serve you, because you won't call us anyway.
[40:24.840 --> 40:26.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, he will call us from Russia.
[40:27.340 --> 40:28.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-4225.
[40:29.720 --> 40:33.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just want to say that that person actually didn't identify themselves.
[40:33.820 --> 40:35.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know they didn't identify themselves.
[40:35.420 --> 40:36.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: We all know that was Rebel.
[40:36.600 --> 40:38.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I don't know.
[40:38.240 --> 40:39.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's an assumption, but...
[40:39.880 --> 40:41.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why are you taking his side?
[40:41.100 --> 40:44.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not taking... I'm just remaining neutral, is what I'm saying.
[40:45.440 --> 40:52.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't even know how the equipment works over here, so I couldn't tell you if it was actually the person you said it was.
[40:52.940 --> 40:55.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: Can I tell you about the ice tracker I have on my phone?
[40:55.080 --> 40:56.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: We should all have ice trackers on our phone.
[40:57.000 --> 41:02.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, I'd like to collect all the different ones, because I found one for Long Island.
[41:02.920 --> 41:05.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's called icelipforward.org.
[41:05.540 --> 41:08.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: I-S-L-I-P-F-O-R-W-A-R-D dot O-R-G.
[41:08.480 --> 41:11.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's called the Suffolk County Ice Tracker.
[41:11.760 --> 41:13.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: I imagine there's one for Nassau County as well.
[41:13.980 --> 41:20.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: You install that, and you will be alerted anytime ice is spotted in your region.
[41:21.400 --> 41:34.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I found out today, on June 25th, 3 p.m., in Brentwood, New York, on Ice Slip Avenue, two plain-clothed agents were seen exiting a gas station.
[41:34.920 --> 41:38.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, that doesn't sound very exciting, but here's another one.
[41:38.600 --> 41:45.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Agents were seen detaining an individual off of Wicks Road by Suffolk County Community College, and there's a picture of them detaining somebody.
[41:46.860 --> 41:48.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Every day, there is another alert.
[41:48.940 --> 41:59.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you find out that something is happening in your neighborhood, you can go take pictures, witness, make sure they don't abuse people, and warn others that they're around and they are on the prowl.
[42:00.120 --> 42:09.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: The more of these we have out, the more power citizens have to protect everybody and just be aware of the threats that are around you.
[42:10.620 --> 42:15.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: So if you have an Ice Tracker app, let us know about it, and we will spread the word.
[42:16.380 --> 42:17.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, we have another phone call?
[42:18.820 --> 42:19.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[42:19.380 --> 42:20.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, good evening.
[42:20.520 --> 42:21.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on Off The Hook.
[42:21.620 --> 42:21.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[42:23.560 --> 42:24.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Speak up.
[42:24.520 --> 42:25.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[42:25.440 --> 42:26.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, what's on your mind?
[42:26.160 --> 42:28.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry, this is Mike again from Flatbush.
[42:29.060 --> 42:30.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm okay with taking a two-week ban.
[42:30.800 --> 42:32.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: I have a question related...
[42:32.500 --> 42:37.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's okay, you haven't risen to the level of getting a ban yet, but go ahead, what's on your mind?
[42:39.100 --> 42:43.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, this is, of course, like a trial run.
[42:43.420 --> 42:45.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't think it's going to stop at Ireland.
[42:45.600 --> 43:03.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: And my question is, I can't understand why social media companies like Meta, or even X now, that Elon is maybe on the out, isn't this a deterrent for young people who are already feeling...
[43:03.300 --> 43:07.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: They have the Luddite streak going.
[43:07.060 --> 43:12.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Isn't it a deterrent from them from even starting up in the world of social media?
[43:12.660 --> 43:19.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wouldn't that worry you if you're a company who depends on more and more accounts?
[43:19.440 --> 43:23.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: Or is this just, you know, is that something that they're fine with, you think?
[43:23.820 --> 43:34.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's just a drop in the bucket, or they've determined the juice isn't worth the squeeze in terms of going against the government and saying, hey, you're encouraging, you're disincentivizing using our product.
[43:34.680 --> 43:39.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's like a violation of some WTO, whatever.
[43:40.220 --> 43:42.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's, it's just baffling to me.
[43:42.720 --> 43:48.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Of course, this is the surveillance national security state, which takes precedence overall.
[43:48.360 --> 43:53.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: But that was just, it seemed to be a tension to me that I was wondering if y'all have any thoughts about.
[43:53.480 --> 43:54.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you again.
[43:54.320 --> 43:55.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you for your call.
[43:55.560 --> 43:55.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Take care.
[43:56.140 --> 43:57.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a very good point.
[43:57.340 --> 44:06.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, I suspect that this government doesn't really care about anybody else, including other big companies that are out there.
[44:06.700 --> 44:10.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: And those other big companies are going to figure out a way to profit one way or another.
[44:10.520 --> 44:16.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't think they're that worried because they're making money hand over fist.
[44:17.580 --> 44:19.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: But it's interesting, interesting point.
[44:19.300 --> 44:21.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: We should watch that and see just what happens.
[44:21.180 --> 44:24.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Of course, I think social media is pretty much dead right now anyway.
[44:24.320 --> 44:26.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's really hard to reach people.
[44:26.720 --> 44:33.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have so many platforms, but, you know, it's not like it used to be, where you could start a conversation with hundreds of people.
[44:33.940 --> 44:38.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now maybe like five people see, you know, unless you're some kind of a rock star or something.
[44:39.180 --> 44:41.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just completely different.
[44:41.720 --> 44:44.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: People are also, I think, communicating less.
[44:44.580 --> 44:54.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think there's just this sort of lack of practice in that we have our sort of fragmented and tailor-made media sources.
[44:54.720 --> 45:02.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: So conversing, getting information from other humans just seems so mundane and like passe.
[45:03.240 --> 45:03.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.
[45:04.180 --> 45:04.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I agree.
[45:04.880 --> 45:05.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: I agree.
[45:05.360 --> 45:08.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is absolutely possible to suffer heat exhaustion while in a radio studio.
[45:08.820 --> 45:09.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Wait.
[45:09.420 --> 45:10.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: While we often associate...
[45:10.600 --> 45:12.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: What are we listening to?
[45:12.740 --> 45:15.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's possible to suffer heat exhaustion in a radio studio?
[45:15.740 --> 45:16.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Who told you that?
[45:16.440 --> 45:17.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that artificial intelligence?
[45:17.620 --> 45:17.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[45:17.800 --> 45:18.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[45:18.300 --> 45:23.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just asked if it's possible to suffer heat exhaustion with more activities in direct sun.
[45:23.860 --> 45:27.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: It can occur in any environment where the body's ability to cool itself is overwhelmed.
[45:28.080 --> 45:30.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here's why a radio studio could pose a risk.
[45:30.540 --> 45:33.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Elevated ambient temperature studios, especially older ones...
[45:33.360 --> 45:34.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not pausing.
[45:34.720 --> 45:36.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's going to go on forever.
[45:36.520 --> 45:39.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a bit low, too, but it gets to the point of credit.
[45:39.280 --> 45:39.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why would it...
[45:39.600 --> 45:41.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's as loud as my device went.
[45:41.620 --> 45:46.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, why would it not be possible to get overheated in a radio studio?
[45:46.020 --> 45:47.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was just checking on you.
[45:47.760 --> 45:48.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[45:48.520 --> 45:50.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm sweating like a pig.
[45:50.320 --> 45:51.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's unbelievable.
[45:51.660 --> 45:52.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have a call.
[45:52.240 --> 45:52.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Come on.
[45:52.560 --> 45:52.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go.
[45:52.800 --> 45:53.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go.
[45:53.200 --> 45:53.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: We only have a few minutes left.
[45:54.080 --> 45:55.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: We got to just make it through this.
[45:55.520 --> 45:56.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: 802-321-4225.
[45:56.760 --> 45:57.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a phone call.
[45:57.800 --> 45:58.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: And good evening.
[45:58.680 --> 45:59.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on off the hook.
[45:59.900 --> 46:00.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[46:01.020 --> 46:01.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[46:01.460 --> 46:08.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, I have to do corporate policy for a large international company on mobile devices heading over the U.S.
[46:08.600 --> 46:08.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: border.
[46:10.580 --> 46:15.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really, the only safe thing to do is take a burner and reflash the device when you get back.
[46:15.140 --> 46:16.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's it.
[46:16.340 --> 46:16.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[46:16.660 --> 46:17.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I agree.
[46:17.760 --> 46:24.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because all the shenanigans of trying to put a false system or something instead of what's already on there.
[46:24.080 --> 46:32.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if someone uses X-Ways or some kind of forensic software, they're going to try to clone the entirety of the phone and can see the subterfuge that you're using.
[46:32.480 --> 46:35.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you just don't want to be in that predicament in the first place.
[46:35.120 --> 46:47.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the way that they're wielding the power they have at the borders, it's just basically everything from casually asking you for a passcode to taking every little bit of data that's on your device and using it against you.
[46:47.520 --> 46:50.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not worth the risk if you have to travel.
[46:50.260 --> 46:51.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: They may say they have the right to do that.
[46:51.880 --> 46:53.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: They do not have the right to do that.
[46:53.980 --> 46:55.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have a say in this as well.
[46:55.780 --> 46:57.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we do not have to give that up.
[46:57.500 --> 47:00.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: But the question I have for our caller, okay, yeah, that's a great idea.
[47:00.460 --> 47:05.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: But how do we make that so simple that your grandmother can do that when she's crossing the border?
[47:06.040 --> 47:15.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it something that we can make, you know, almost a normal action that won't scare people?
[47:18.570 --> 47:19.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you still there?
[47:20.570 --> 47:21.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, I'm still there.
[47:21.910 --> 47:26.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: So do you have any ideas as to how we can make that easy for the average person?
[47:27.490 --> 47:29.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: For the average person to re-flash their phone?
[47:30.210 --> 47:31.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: People are working on it?
[47:31.450 --> 47:31.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[47:33.250 --> 47:35.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's not easy now.
[47:35.550 --> 47:43.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not easy to, you know, basically have a burner laptop and, you know, reinstall that and update your firmware on it for anybody.
[47:44.010 --> 47:44.270]  Right.
[47:45.270 --> 47:51.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, that's essentially what you would have to do if they confiscate it, period.
[47:52.050 --> 47:55.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about that.
[47:55.630 --> 48:09.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and, you know, the only other thing I could say is, you know, um, yeah, that's pretty much it because, you know, the moment they have your hardware, they can, they can use whatever tools they want on it.
[48:09.970 --> 48:22.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you don't give them your hardware, all they can say is either, well, we're not letting you through until you do, or they can confiscate it, you know, and then give it back to you in whatever condition it happens to be whenever you get it back.
[48:22.190 --> 48:22.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[48:23.030 --> 48:29.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, and, and, and the real bad part about that is they have all this information, all of your private information.
[48:29.410 --> 48:34.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're talking about, uh, you know, a company that, you know, corporate secrets they would get easily.
[48:34.450 --> 48:38.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's, well, and that's, that's what, that's what we were discussing at the company I was at.
[48:39.270 --> 48:44.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the policy was, is to take a laptop that would basically be trashed.
[48:44.710 --> 48:51.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you know, and if the, and, and just report that it was, you know, taken out of, out of your hands upon entry.
[48:51.790 --> 48:58.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: And at that point, you know, they would, they would trash the laptop or the, or the phone.
[49:00.090 --> 49:00.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[49:00.330 --> 49:00.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's great.
[49:00.790 --> 49:01.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Alex, do you have something?
[49:03.310 --> 49:04.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Add to this.
[49:04.290 --> 49:08.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I, I think this is such a real deterrent for people to come to the United States.
[49:08.350 --> 49:19.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: When I was coming back from Prague two weeks ago, I had, uh, had a conversation with the, the British airways agent was trying to get myself an upgrade on the way back.
[49:19.850 --> 49:21.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we wound up talking for a little while.
[49:21.990 --> 49:28.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: And he indicated to me that, uh, shouldn't be a problem to get the upgrade because there's barely anybody on the flight to the United States.
[49:29.150 --> 49:35.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in fact, most of the flights to the United States these days barely have anybody on them because nobody wants to come.
[49:35.730 --> 49:38.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody wants to face off these border agents.
[49:38.630 --> 49:44.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone is afraid of what's going to happen when they show up here because of these horror stories that have happened to people.
[49:45.310 --> 49:49.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: I find it to be an extraordinarily tragic and sad situation.
[49:50.570 --> 50:09.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not a situation that's just going to fix itself quickly because, um, I was, I was talking to, uh, some Canadian media people today and, uh, you know, it's, um, it's a scar that is going to last for a long time when, um, uh, an entire nation is, is,
[50:09.310 --> 50:26.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: um, um, um, mistreated, insulted, uh, threatened, uh, by, uh, a neighboring government, uh, when, when, um, citizens of that country are subjected to abuse crossing the border or even, God forbid, sent to another country because they have roots in that country.
[50:27.390 --> 50:31.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, these are not things that you can just snap your finger and say, everything's okay now.
[50:31.830 --> 50:40.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because even if you get rid of all the people doing this, that suspicion is going to linger for a very, very long time.
[50:40.190 --> 50:42.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that, that goes for people from all over the world.
[50:42.510 --> 50:45.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's, it's a really sad and tragic thing for all of us.
[50:45.750 --> 50:52.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're going to have to do something because the Olympics, um, next year are huge attraction and a big event.
[50:52.490 --> 51:05.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they're, they're going to have to get, uh, get over some of these policies, uh, as performative as they may seem, because you are going to essentially upend an entire event that is of, uh, international interest.
[51:05.770 --> 51:08.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's not the, maybe it's not the best example.
[51:08.570 --> 51:09.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, it's a good example.
[51:09.410 --> 51:11.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: And also next year is the world cup.
[51:11.430 --> 51:13.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have the world cup as well.
[51:13.250 --> 51:28.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, how do you vie for these kinds to host these kinds of things when you have a sort of incongruence or like a policy that's just hard to make work with being on the international stage in this way.
[51:28.770 --> 51:31.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and I, I fully agree.
[51:31.190 --> 51:38.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like there is going to be probably a decades, I don't know, of, of goodwill that will need to be done.
[51:38.810 --> 51:43.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: If this ever is to be repaired, these sorts of bonds that we had had with other nations.
[51:44.590 --> 52:00.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's a kind of a lousy time, uh, to be disconnecting from the rest of the world, especially when we have so much connection through technology, people are so aware and can share their experiences so readily.
[52:00.930 --> 52:11.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, how can we blind ourselves and, and try to convince ourselves to somehow is, is a way of making us a better place.
[52:11.530 --> 52:14.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's, it's really not of our character in my opinion.
[52:14.670 --> 52:21.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Any, any act of rebellion, whether it's showing up in the streets or showing up at the polls, it matters, should be celebrated.
[52:22.110 --> 52:30.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, even if you're not 100% on board, anything that fights back in any way is, um, is healthy and, and, and should be encouraged.
[52:31.390 --> 52:32.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: We are out of time.
[52:33.030 --> 52:35.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and we will be back next week.
[52:35.430 --> 52:38.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can write to us, oth@2600.com.
[52:38.250 --> 52:43.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to thank everybody who called in and who, um, uh, shared their ideas and thoughts and things like that.
[52:44.230 --> 52:46.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, again, we will be back next week, 7 p.m.
[52:46.730 --> 52:47.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: on WBAI.
[52:48.370 --> 52:50.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, stay cool.
[52:50.910 --> 52:52.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's gonna, it's gonna get better.
[52:52.430 --> 52:52.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: I promise.
[52:53.170 --> 52:53.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: In many, many ways.
[52:54.510 --> 52:55.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And hack something.
[52:55.670 --> 52:56.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, please.
[52:57.310 --> 52:57.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good night, everyone.
[52:57.830 --> 52:58.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: The
[53:07.440 --> 53:11.820]  land that I heard of warmth in our love
[53:19.560 --> 53:44.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: of blue And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true Someday I'll wish upon a star and wake up where the clouds are far behind May When trouble's not like lemon drops the way above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
[53:44.820 --> 53:46.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Somewhere high
[53:54.100 --> 53:55.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: over the rainbow.
[53:56.340 --> 53:58.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't know why can't I?
[54:06.540 --> 54:12.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: If happy little bluebirds fly across the rainbow, I'll...