[00:13.640 --> 00:14.760] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[00:15.280 --> 00:17.860] [SPEAKER_02]: The time is just about 7.01pm.
[00:18.440 --> 00:24.960] [SPEAKER_02]: You're listening to radio station WBAI-FM 99.5 FM here in New York.
[00:25.300 --> 00:27.600] [SPEAKER_02]: WBAI.org everywhere.
[00:28.120 --> 00:35.840] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is just about time for a special edition, a special New Year's Eve edition of Off The Hook.
[00:41.520 --> 00:43.480] [SPEAKER_08]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:43.800 --> 00:46.020] [SPEAKER_08]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:46.980 --> 00:49.000] [SPEAKER_08]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:49.620 --> 00:51.580] [SPEAKER_08]: Now I can't make a call.
[00:52.300 --> 00:54.360] [SPEAKER_08]: We couldn't get much worse.
[00:56.480 --> 00:56.960] [SPEAKER_08]: We would.
[00:57.220 --> 00:59.860] [SPEAKER_08]: But the best is back the worst.
[01:00.440 --> 01:02.360] [SPEAKER_08]: I hope that's understood.
[01:02.700 --> 01:02.880] [SPEAKER_08]: But the best is back the worst.
[01:02.880 --> 01:02.880] I hope that's understood.
[01:02.880 --> 01:03.500] [SPEAKER_08]: But the best is back the worst.
[01:25.990 --> 01:27.810] [SPEAKER_02]: A very good evening to you.
[01:27.930 --> 01:29.730] [SPEAKER_02]: Program is Off The Hook.
[01:30.070 --> 01:30.850] [SPEAKER_02]: Rob T.
[01:30.990 --> 01:32.290] [SPEAKER_02]: Firefly here with you.
[01:32.290 --> 01:35.910] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm joined in the studio by Gila.
[01:36.130 --> 01:36.570] [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[01:37.130 --> 01:41.190] [SPEAKER_02]: And out in Signal-land, we should have Emmanuel and Kyle.
[01:41.490 --> 01:42.250] [SPEAKER_02]: Fellas, are you with us?
[01:43.670 --> 01:44.170] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
[01:45.250 --> 01:45.990] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi there.
[01:46.790 --> 01:47.290] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[01:47.610 --> 01:52.030] [SPEAKER_02]: And you are in a remote location, both in space and in time.
[01:52.290 --> 01:54.010] [SPEAKER_02]: You want to talk a little bit about where you are?
[01:54.850 --> 01:56.810] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we're so remote, actually.
[01:56.990 --> 01:58.230] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of people around here.
[02:09.270 --> 02:15.530] [SPEAKER_02]: That was a non-standard siren to my American ears.
[02:16.470 --> 02:26.130] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I ever wind up running a police department in the United States, which is more likely than you might think, I'm going to have my cars make that sound.
[02:26.390 --> 02:27.530] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no law against it.
[02:28.470 --> 02:30.990] [SPEAKER_02]: And where do cars make that sound these days?
[02:31.830 --> 02:33.890] [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, we're in Hamburg in Germany.
[02:34.250 --> 02:44.870] [SPEAKER_01]: We have been to the Chaos Communication Congress, which takes place every year on December 27th, 28th, 29th, and 30th, no matter what day of the week it is.
[02:44.870 --> 02:47.970] [SPEAKER_01]: And it is an incredible conference.
[02:48.550 --> 02:56.170] [SPEAKER_01]: Five stories of a conference center and tens of thousands of people show up for this thing year after year.
[02:57.910 --> 03:03.870] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's almost impossible to describe because it is so different from anything you would see in the States.
[03:03.870 --> 03:14.350] [SPEAKER_01]: People are just so laid back and calm and accepting and just full of adventure, knowledge.
[03:15.070 --> 03:17.530] [SPEAKER_01]: I really wish everybody could experience this.
[03:17.790 --> 03:25.810] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people can online, obviously, but being there in person, which Kyle and I have not been in quite a few years, it's a magical experience.
[03:27.310 --> 03:27.990] [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.
[03:28.190 --> 03:29.830] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you went to the conference.
[03:30.730 --> 03:35.230] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been seeing a lot of chatter about the conference, just people enjoying it and stuff.
[03:35.330 --> 03:37.530] [SPEAKER_02]: But what's your experience there like this year?
[03:39.170 --> 04:00.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it was really a fantastic gathering of so many different people from the hacker subculture, an incredible cross-section, young people, old people, people from just every walk of this interesting affinity group.
[04:00.510 --> 04:03.090] [SPEAKER_10]: And it was really magical.
[04:03.390 --> 04:09.610] [SPEAKER_10]: I just found it a place where people are treated like adults.
[04:10.170 --> 04:12.510] [SPEAKER_10]: They're accepted.
[04:12.530 --> 04:13.970] [SPEAKER_10]: There's no judgment.
[04:14.330 --> 04:21.630] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lot of encouragement to learn things, to teach things, and share.
[04:21.630 --> 04:25.610] [SPEAKER_10]: That was really my takeaway.
[04:27.130 --> 04:43.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Quite a bit of what would otherwise be considered marginalized communities were really front and center, leading things and expressing themselves and sharing what they're all about.
[04:43.890 --> 04:48.230] [SPEAKER_10]: And that was something really that had me in awe.
[04:48.230 --> 05:05.730] [SPEAKER_10]: It just felt like such a good spirit, something to work towards in mainstream society, because so much that is invisible to that was showcased and really celebrated.
[05:07.810 --> 05:12.570] [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent, and to make note of, I mean, we can't ignore what's going on in the background there.
[05:12.710 --> 05:14.350] [SPEAKER_02]: That's coming from your end of things.
[05:14.450 --> 05:17.190] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're hearing some explosions, some celebrating.
[05:17.450 --> 05:23.610] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is because you are currently located in the year of the Common Era 2026, are you not?
[05:25.230 --> 05:27.070] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't realize you were hearing that.
[05:27.070 --> 05:30.350] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a little bit of celebration going on.
[05:31.030 --> 05:39.470] [SPEAKER_01]: New Year's actually happened about an hour ago, but, you know, people are still celebrating, because why not?
[05:39.830 --> 05:42.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it did occur.
[05:43.690 --> 05:51.530] [SPEAKER_10]: And, yeah, you know, 2025, it was okay, but I'm hearing really good things about 26.
[05:51.530 --> 05:57.610] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I'm kind of disappointed, because not a lot has changed since 2025.
[05:58.470 --> 05:59.910] [SPEAKER_01]: I was hoping for more.
[06:00.970 --> 06:07.830] [SPEAKER_01]: Although, I have to say, over here in Hamburg right now, Zora Mamdani is the mayor of New York.
[06:08.370 --> 06:09.530] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's that.
[06:09.690 --> 06:10.890] [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of cool, I guess.
[06:12.470 --> 06:15.550] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I guess you've got to take what you get.
[06:16.970 --> 06:18.590] [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, we're getting fired, Ron.
[06:20.030 --> 06:26.730] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, we're just looking out a window and trying to stay safe, but you don't want to...
[06:26.730 --> 06:27.250] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
[06:27.990 --> 06:29.730] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to walk down the street.
[06:30.770 --> 06:34.370] [SPEAKER_01]: I just saw a bottle rocket, but it wasn't going up.
[06:34.370 --> 06:35.830] [SPEAKER_01]: It was going down the sidewalk.
[06:36.150 --> 06:40.290] [SPEAKER_01]: And there were people walking on the sidewalk, and nobody really cares.
[06:40.710 --> 06:41.290] [SPEAKER_01]: People are...
[06:41.290 --> 06:42.610] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a German thing.
[06:42.730 --> 06:44.010] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's just a chaos thing.
[06:44.010 --> 06:51.470] [SPEAKER_01]: I think people are just so incredibly laid back, all kinds of hell can unfurl in front of them, and it's just like, okay, yeah, so what?
[06:52.990 --> 06:57.630] [SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned Zora Mamdani, and that leads to one of the things we've been talking about this week.
[06:57.630 --> 07:08.150] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to get back to you guys and what you're doing over there, but there was an interesting post on the blog of the company Adafruit, friends of the show, I believe.
[07:08.150 --> 07:24.410] [SPEAKER_02]: And they are a local electronics company, and they had noticed that for the event tomorrow, for the mayor's inauguration, there is a list of things you're not allowed to bring to the block party happening to celebrate the event.
[07:24.990 --> 07:29.270] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a party that's out in the street, outside City Hall, and up and down the city a bit.
[07:29.450 --> 07:35.150] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are a number of things you're not allowed to bring to this public celebration, which, you know, a lot of them seem reasonable.
[07:35.850 --> 07:40.190] [SPEAKER_02]: Weapons, fireworks, explosives, drones, remote controlled aerial devices.
[07:41.330 --> 07:46.310] [SPEAKER_02]: Then it gets to like bicycles or scooters, beach balls, alcoholic beverages, okay, illegal substances.
[07:46.750 --> 07:52.170] [SPEAKER_02]: But then, you know, bats and batons, large items that could obstruct views.
[07:52.330 --> 07:54.190] [SPEAKER_02]: This all seems perfectly reasonable.
[07:54.410 --> 08:02.130] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it goes on to list Flipper Zero, and Raspberry Pi, as two things you are not allowed to bring to the inauguration celebration.
[08:05.250 --> 08:05.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Incredible.
[08:05.810 --> 08:13.110] [SPEAKER_10]: My reaction, honestly, I mean, first of all, it's a fantastic celebration.
[08:13.350 --> 08:29.170] [SPEAKER_10]: And really, why would I want to be distracted with so many other things that really don't seem relevant to what is the focus, which is this monumental change in leadership for New York City.
[08:29.390 --> 08:47.830] [SPEAKER_10]: But at the same time, it's a little distressing to think that a component or a microchip could be treated on the same level as a firearm or some other dangerous item.
[08:47.830 --> 08:51.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'm curious why beach balls are on the list.
[08:52.510 --> 08:53.970] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we can't have too much fun.
[08:54.130 --> 09:01.110] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, the Flipper Zero and a Raspberry Pi amount to pretty much the same thing, which is a computer, but it's small.
[09:01.830 --> 09:15.530] [SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that you can bring you can bring your laptop, you can bring other electronic devices, tablets, telephones, you know, smartphones, whatever, but they're singling out two brand name items in that category, the Flipper Zero, which is a small development computer you can hold in your hand,
[09:15.530 --> 09:17.410] [SPEAKER_02]: and the Raspberry Pi, which is about the same thing.
[09:18.890 --> 09:22.290] [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, it's really it's raising eyebrows in the tech world.
[09:22.590 --> 09:38.290] [SPEAKER_02]: The blogger for Adafruit, which is Philip Turon from Adafruit is talking about how he is bringing his and he closes this post with, I guess I'm going to get arrested at the mayoral inauguration or not let me or not let in if they find my stuff.
[09:38.530 --> 09:40.210] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be using a Raspberry Pi as my computer.
[09:40.350 --> 09:42.890] [SPEAKER_02]: And the Flipper Zero needs to be fed every three hours.
[09:42.890 --> 09:43.690] [SPEAKER_02]: It's expecting.
[09:45.010 --> 09:51.350] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I guess we'll hear from Phil or maybe Phil's legal representation if anything comes of this.
[09:52.030 --> 10:02.370] [SPEAKER_02]: But there there does not seem to be any acknowledgement out there of why these things are on the list of things you're just not allowed to have if you're out on this, if you're out at this party.
[10:02.650 --> 10:06.490] [SPEAKER_02]: It is not the actual inauguration itself that is not happening in public this year.
[10:06.730 --> 10:11.430] [SPEAKER_02]: It's actually happening in the disused subway station below City Hall.
[10:11.790 --> 10:13.470] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is going to be a small closed event.
[10:14.170 --> 10:15.970] [SPEAKER_01]: That is the coolest thing ever.
[10:16.190 --> 10:27.670] [SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, that subway station, which I've been to many times, closed in 1945 on January 1st, 80 years ago to the day.
[10:28.070 --> 10:31.050] [SPEAKER_01]: So that tells me that somebody appreciates history.
[10:31.990 --> 10:32.470] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[10:32.470 --> 10:35.150] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a post about it on streetsblog.nyc.
[10:35.730 --> 10:37.670] [SPEAKER_02]: And they go into it a bit.
[10:37.930 --> 10:41.910] [SPEAKER_02]: There are some pictures of the station, which is a beautiful piece of construction.
[10:42.570 --> 10:45.150] [SPEAKER_02]: And the event is going to be down there.
[10:45.350 --> 10:50.790] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see you can visit the station legitimately one of a couple of ways.
[10:51.290 --> 10:57.070] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're a member of the MTA Museum, you have the opportunity to buy tickets for however long they last.
[10:57.210 --> 10:58.190] [SPEAKER_02]: But apparently they sell out quickly.
[10:58.590 --> 11:03.990] [SPEAKER_02]: Or if you take a downtown six train, stay on after the last stop at City Hall.
[11:04.190 --> 11:10.090] [SPEAKER_02]: You will be taken past this station, through this station, as the train goes around to come back and go uptown again.
[11:10.270 --> 11:13.490] [SPEAKER_02]: And you will be able to look out the windows and see the station as it goes by.
[11:13.870 --> 11:15.090] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's something I do recommend.
[11:15.810 --> 11:23.270] [SPEAKER_01]: My question, Rob, is what are they doing for all the downtown six trains during the swearing-in ceremony?
[11:24.070 --> 11:33.130] [SPEAKER_01]: Can people just, you know, loop around and witness Zora Mamdani being sworn in at that moment as the train turns around and it's back uptown?
[11:33.510 --> 11:34.970] [SPEAKER_02]: That is an excellent question.
[11:35.230 --> 11:42.370] [SPEAKER_02]: No official info has, I think, been given out as to when exactly the swearing-in would happen.
[11:42.650 --> 11:55.750] [SPEAKER_02]: But I imagine if you can look up your six train schedules and see and hope that they don't just shut down that chunk of the train for this amount of time, perhaps you'll be able to see it.
[11:55.810 --> 11:58.910] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, if anyone does see it, we want to hear about it.
[11:59.170 --> 11:59.810] [SPEAKER_02]: Let us know.
[11:59.970 --> 12:07.290] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be too much of a troublemaker here, but I believe the swearing-in takes place on the stroke of midnight or very, very soon thereafter.
[12:07.750 --> 12:14.310] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're on a six train going down downtown around that time, you might very well see a piece of history.
[12:16.230 --> 12:20.950] [SPEAKER_02]: It may be, but this is going to be the, this is the legal swearing-in ceremony.
[12:21.850 --> 12:26.430] [SPEAKER_02]: Mamdani will also be ceremonially sworn in at a public ceremony at City Hall at 1 p.m.
[12:26.590 --> 12:33.470] [SPEAKER_02]: tomorrow alongside incoming Comptroller Mark Levine and re-elected public advocate Jermaine Williams.
[12:34.250 --> 12:39.650] [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie Sanders is actually going to be conducting the ceremonial swearing-in at that daytime event tomorrow.
[12:39.810 --> 12:48.170] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're, if you're interested in checking that action out, see if you can get to this block party tomorrow on Broadway between Liberty and Murray Streets.
[12:51.840 --> 12:52.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[12:52.660 --> 13:00.220] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think it really is the focus is the party itself, but it's such an interesting thing.
[13:00.420 --> 13:15.540] [SPEAKER_10]: I hope that doesn't overshadow the, the early parts of this administration being that these devices they're mentioning really can take on many different forms and, uh, and, and shapes.
[13:15.780 --> 13:32.720] [SPEAKER_10]: So it just seems like a pretty fraught thing to try to police and, and a little silly given how powerful smartphones are that, you know, of course everyone will have to, to take photos or, um, you know, on them, uh, in other parts of the city and, and,
[13:32.820 --> 13:33.740] [SPEAKER_10]: and the celebrations.
[13:34.320 --> 13:35.180] [SPEAKER_01]: I am impressed.
[13:35.340 --> 13:38.340] [SPEAKER_01]: They know what a Raspberry Pi is and a Flipper Zero for that matter.
[13:39.320 --> 13:50.480] [SPEAKER_02]: It makes you wonder if they do know what they are considering that they're categorizing them as some sort of hazard when, uh, a computer, a laptop, or even a smartphone can do all the same things you would theoretically be able to do with one of those.
[13:50.480 --> 13:52.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, but I'm having a thought.
[13:52.520 --> 13:53.960] [SPEAKER_09]: Can you go back to the list for a second?
[13:54.240 --> 13:56.140] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I'm thinking about this.
[13:56.320 --> 13:58.180] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we've got, we've got the list up here.
[13:58.300 --> 13:58.520] [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[13:58.620 --> 14:05.800] [SPEAKER_09]: So a lot of stuff that you can't have is stuff that could cause a problem in terms of traffic flow, right?
[14:06.060 --> 14:15.280] [SPEAKER_09]: A chair, a scooter, a stroller, an umbrella, a blanket, a beach ball, because I don't know about you.
[14:15.400 --> 14:17.900] [SPEAKER_09]: I get annoyed when I see beach balls at a concert.
[14:18.600 --> 14:21.020] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, pets other than service animals.
[14:21.300 --> 14:24.120] [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you're not allowed to bring alcoholic beverages.
[14:26.400 --> 14:27.540] [SPEAKER_09]: Good God, boys.
[14:28.060 --> 14:33.660] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, You know how many people walk around Germany with alcoholic beverages?
[14:33.960 --> 14:35.160] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, everywhere.
[14:35.480 --> 14:38.460] [SPEAKER_10]: That, that was something I observed, uh, at the event.
[14:38.600 --> 14:40.460] [SPEAKER_10]: And I, I really mean it.
[14:40.600 --> 14:50.820] [SPEAKER_10]: And it is, it's itself its own topic, but you're really treated like an adult at a mixed event with, with a whole variety of people, including families.
[14:51.360 --> 14:54.900] [SPEAKER_10]: People can just consume whatever they want to consume.
[14:54.900 --> 14:56.380] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's, it's not a big deal.
[14:56.500 --> 15:03.040] [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have to be cloistered into some, uh, uh, a corral where you, you can only do certain things in certain places.
[15:03.300 --> 15:15.940] [SPEAKER_10]: I'll say, uh, barring smoking, that's definitely an outdoor activity, but things like that, where you're treated like an adult amongst, uh, uh, uh, people who are not, uh, those are refreshing attitudes.
[15:15.940 --> 15:24.400] [SPEAKER_10]: And I just hope in this event too, that, uh, people bringing baked goods, uh, especially if they include raspberries, that they're not barring.
[15:24.400 --> 15:35.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you never know the drinking age in Germany is 16 and you know, kids can drink at 14 with their parents, you know, beer and wine.
[15:35.620 --> 15:41.720] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but 16, you can, you can actually drink beer and wine on your own and 18 for hard spirits.
[15:41.920 --> 15:58.400] [SPEAKER_01]: But the thing is, you know, kids are much more mature here and they're not getting all plastered and acting like imbeciles because things are not being pushed so far away from them that they become forbidden and therefore more desirable.
[15:59.100 --> 16:03.300] [SPEAKER_01]: So while people here are drinking at 16, we have to wait until 21.
[16:03.680 --> 16:07.980] [SPEAKER_01]: And by that time, you know, you're, you know, some people are out of college by then.
[16:08.300 --> 16:13.320] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a ridiculous, um, uh, disproportionate way of, of treating something.
[16:13.420 --> 16:15.480] [SPEAKER_01]: But please go ahead with your thoughts.
[16:15.480 --> 16:15.960] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you.
[16:16.320 --> 16:28.500] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, but I think that's the thing is my assumption is that the idea is people aren't gonna know what a Flipper Zero or a Raspberry Pi is.
[16:29.120 --> 16:34.900] [SPEAKER_09]: And they'll see it and wonder what that is and assume that someone is attempting to blow up the block party.
[16:35.240 --> 16:44.680] [SPEAKER_09]: And I wonder if the ban on Flipper's Zero and Raspberry Pi is to avoid panic.
[16:45.300 --> 16:51.900] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm also fascinated by the fact that you can't bring a beer into this, but edibles seem to be fair game.
[16:53.500 --> 16:54.040] [SPEAKER_01]: So...
[16:54.040 --> 16:54.220] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[16:54.900 --> 16:55.140] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[16:55.560 --> 16:59.300] [SPEAKER_01]: Did you, uh, did you, uh, did you refer to them in the plural as Raspberries Pi?
[16:59.380 --> 17:00.240] [SPEAKER_09]: I certainly did.
[17:00.320 --> 17:00.860] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[17:01.080 --> 17:02.240] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Attorneys General?
[17:02.400 --> 17:03.060] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Attorneys General.
[17:03.670 --> 17:05.580] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish Alex were here for this.
[17:05.970 --> 17:07.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Or sisters-in-law.
[17:08.600 --> 17:11.720] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, I said Flippers Zero and Raspberries Pi.
[17:13.160 --> 17:16.970] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we need to check on that because that's an important distinction.
[17:17.220 --> 17:18.700] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to make sure that's correct.
[17:18.990 --> 17:23.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that sounds like some sort of compute cluster or something, but I'll take it.
[17:24.200 --> 17:39.620] [SPEAKER_10]: That's perfectly acceptable and still barred from this, uh, what would otherwise be, uh, uh, a really, uh, uh, wonderful and, uh, wonderful and inspiring sort of event full of revelry.
[17:39.740 --> 17:47.580] [SPEAKER_10]: And if you can't celebrate with your microcomputers and general computers, then, I mean, what else, what can you look forward to?
[17:47.760 --> 17:51.360] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, this is how we get down in the 21st century.
[17:51.640 --> 17:52.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's act like it.
[17:53.040 --> 17:56.270] [SPEAKER_01]: Can I bring a desktop computer to the Mamdani inauguration?
[17:56.480 --> 18:01.200] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, get a, get a nice big beige, uh, like compact presario from the 90s with a huge monitor.
[18:01.480 --> 18:09.740] [SPEAKER_09]: It does say, don't bring large items that could obstruct views of spectators around you, or large backpacks or duffel bags.
[18:09.940 --> 18:22.560] [SPEAKER_09]: So thinking back when I was a kid and we had a compact portable computer that basically packed into a soft sided bag that was, gosh, I don't know, the size of your monitor.
[18:23.010 --> 18:28.460] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that, that was something that's now known as a luggable computer because they, they were luggable more than they were portable.
[18:28.600 --> 18:28.680] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[18:28.740 --> 18:32.510] [SPEAKER_09]: The thing my dad used to say was, yeah, you can put a handle on a Mac truck and call it portable.
[18:34.400 --> 18:40.840] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, honestly, though, can, are we really kicking off this administration with like architecture discrimination?
[18:41.560 --> 18:45.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you know, is a five, five, five chip allowed?
[18:45.860 --> 18:47.580] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, what's next?
[18:47.820 --> 18:49.660] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a slippery, slippery slope.
[18:49.800 --> 18:51.040] [SPEAKER_09]: It is a slippery, slippery slope.
[18:51.140 --> 18:58.510] [SPEAKER_09]: And I have a question actually, because I've never been to an event like this, but I know we're talking to a couple of people who have.
[18:58.910 --> 18:59.860] [SPEAKER_02]: That, that is true.
[19:00.240 --> 19:04.600] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Emmanuel and I went to see, uh, Bill de Blasio be inaugurated, uh, back in that day.
[19:05.220 --> 19:15.300] [SPEAKER_01]: And somewhere there's a picture of me, uh, with Bill de Blasio, which, uh, I've had, I've tried to have, you know, destroyed, but, uh, that just keeps popping up.
[19:15.680 --> 19:16.010] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[19:16.080 --> 19:17.720] [SPEAKER_02]: There's also a photo of me with Bill de Blasio.
[19:17.790 --> 19:24.290] [SPEAKER_02]: And I, I believe I was wearing a phone losers of America t-shirt at the time, which, uh, um, which you were, I've seen the picture.
[19:24.290 --> 19:24.600] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[19:24.820 --> 19:27.240] [SPEAKER_09]: But what were you not allowed to bring when...
[19:27.970 --> 19:29.010] [SPEAKER_02]: I, I don't know.
[19:29.100 --> 19:37.220] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that there was anything really, uh, I mean, we, we had, uh, we had some audio stuff with us, um, because we were radio people and we recorded a little something.
[19:37.540 --> 19:41.720] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we had, I, I don't, we, there was plenty of, uh, food and drink about.
[19:41.920 --> 19:42.820] [SPEAKER_02]: They were giving us stuff.
[19:42.920 --> 19:43.380] [SPEAKER_02]: It was nice.
[19:43.700 --> 19:51.720] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but, uh, I don't believe they were searching us or being any kind of invasive with, with what they show, what they thought we should or shouldn't have.
[19:51.720 --> 19:52.030] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[19:52.080 --> 19:57.680] [SPEAKER_09]: That's actually, I guess, part of my other question is, are they going to be searching people as they arrive?
[19:57.980 --> 20:04.240] [SPEAKER_09]: There are some of these things that are, it's clear, you know, if you're walking in with a cooler, it's easy to see.
[20:05.200 --> 20:09.440] [SPEAKER_09]: If you're like, how are they going to check to see if people have a Flipper Zero or a Raspberry Pi?
[20:10.100 --> 20:12.010] [SPEAKER_09]: Check your pockets, check your purse, like...
[20:12.010 --> 20:18.060] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially to, to your point of, uh, somebody pulling out a Raspberry Pi and people not knowing what it is and, um, it causing panic.
[20:18.380 --> 20:21.290] [SPEAKER_02]: Raspberry Pi is a bare circuit board of a computer.
[20:22.290 --> 20:25.030] [SPEAKER_02]: And, famously, you can put it in any kind of case you want.
[20:25.120 --> 20:26.700] [SPEAKER_02]: There are all sorts of 3D printable designs.
[20:26.800 --> 20:27.700] [SPEAKER_02]: There are commercial designs.
[20:27.980 --> 20:31.340] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's no one thing that a Raspberry Pi really looks like if you've got it in a case.
[20:31.340 --> 20:33.530] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a little, a little plastic box in your hand.
[20:34.900 --> 20:35.220] [SPEAKER_10]: So...
[20:35.220 --> 20:38.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it could look like, it could look like a cereal box, depending.
[20:38.460 --> 20:41.680] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, and all of these have different packages.
[20:42.290 --> 20:44.340] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, as you said, uh, they're...
[20:44.340 --> 20:56.460] [SPEAKER_10]: they could be attached to any kind of, uh, printed circuit board, uh, and, and installed in any kind of container, uh, depending on their purpose and, and whatever someone has designed it for.
[20:56.460 --> 21:02.560] [SPEAKER_10]: So you're really looking for anything, uh, to, to put it kind of in a simplistic way.
[21:03.220 --> 21:03.380] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[21:03.540 --> 21:06.460] [SPEAKER_02]: And the Raspberry Pi Zero, the smallest version of it, is about the size of your thumb.
[21:06.740 --> 21:07.880] [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh...
[21:07.880 --> 21:11.790] [SPEAKER_09]: But you could get a case for a Raspberry Pi.
[21:12.030 --> 21:13.060] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, it could go into anything.
[21:13.240 --> 21:13.510] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[21:13.580 --> 21:20.040] [SPEAKER_09]: You could purchase said anything at, like, a thrift store or another resale environment.
[21:20.240 --> 21:20.540] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[21:20.840 --> 21:25.600] [SPEAKER_09]: So you could get something for your Raspberry Pi, the kind you'd find at a secondhand store.
[21:28.040 --> 21:30.560] [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, let's theorize for a moment.
[21:30.620 --> 21:32.320] [SPEAKER_01]: What is it they're afraid of?
[21:32.400 --> 21:36.700] [SPEAKER_01]: What do they think people are going to do with a Raspberry Pi or a Flipper Zero?
[21:36.700 --> 21:59.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, in my opinion, like, my, my theory would be just basically straight up the antennas, uh, the ability for a lot of these things to, uh, interface with different signals, um, because they're integrated on the, the, uh, circuitry and the, the chips themselves.
[22:00.380 --> 22:02.720] [SPEAKER_10]: But it's really tough to say.
[22:02.920 --> 22:03.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[22:03.160 --> 22:04.780] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, that's a fantastic inquiry.
[22:04.780 --> 22:20.400] [SPEAKER_10]: And, and that's really the crux of what they're trying to prevent here is perhaps they don't want people to know what kind of frequencies, what, what is in the air or having anything that might interfere with other frequencies.
[22:20.400 --> 22:23.760] [SPEAKER_10]: But it's really, you know, anybody's guess.
[22:23.940 --> 22:36.140] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it just feels like saying this causes more of an issue than not saying it, you know, uh, because people are going to say, well, what is it you, you mean, what are you afraid of?
[22:36.180 --> 22:38.680] [SPEAKER_01]: What's your, what, what are you sensitive about?
[22:39.000 --> 22:44.120] [SPEAKER_01]: And these are all questions that wouldn't have been asked had this not been, been made public.
[22:44.120 --> 22:59.380] [SPEAKER_10]: And then there are more purpose-built, um, systems and, uh, devices that are particularly, uh, uh, well-suited for spectrum analysis or transmitting.
[22:59.740 --> 23:06.300] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm thinking of, uh, FPGAs or other kind of, uh, custom ASIC circuitry, whatever it is.
[23:06.420 --> 23:23.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Like there's lots of other types of, of, um, devices that could be profoundly more disruptive because they're, um, um, assembled in a way that is, uh, particularly well-suited for the kind of disruption they're trying to prevent.
[23:23.920 --> 23:24.560] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[23:24.640 --> 23:42.340] [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's funny because I'm just, I'm contrasting this paranoia with what we just went through at the chaos communication Congress here in Hamburg and just the, um, embracing of technology technology and the, um, um, um, the, the abuse of technology,
[23:42.900 --> 23:44.420] [SPEAKER_01]: the humor of the abuse.
[23:44.620 --> 23:47.880] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's just night and day.
[23:48.260 --> 24:07.020] [SPEAKER_01]: There was one talk I remember, uh, where, um, the presenter was, was explaining how, um, watches, uh, that are used to, uh, to surveil kids, uh, by parents, uh, they can be compromised and all kinds of dark messages can be sent.
[24:08.020 --> 24:25.740] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just really hilarious to, um, and, and, and, and, you know, it was in a huge room and the entire audience was, was, was cracking up hearing the, um, uh, the scenarios where, look, my child is in North Korea for some reason, you know, your child who you,
[24:25.840 --> 24:38.420] [SPEAKER_01]: who you sent to school that morning is now in Pyongyang near, near, near the, the statue of Kim Il-sung and sending these, these dark messages saying, mother, do not weep for me.
[24:39.420 --> 24:41.900] [SPEAKER_01]: It was just, it's so wrong.
[24:42.200 --> 24:46.640] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so dark, but here it's, um, it's, it's just hilarious.
[24:46.920 --> 24:57.780] [SPEAKER_01]: And people have a very healthy attitude towards how to, um, to work with technology and, you know, what, what security actually is.
[24:58.020 --> 24:58.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[24:58.660 --> 25:05.900] [SPEAKER_10]: That, that presenter was doing a fantastic job basically using the, um, the framework of an attacker.
[25:05.980 --> 25:31.160] [SPEAKER_10]: And in this case, against a smartwatch for kids using the, the sort of fairy tale of, uh, of a child eating witch and, and, and playing that up to, I mean, to the nines, like just incredibly, uh, hilarious in, in talking about, um, uh, uh, the ways you could disrupt the way that this device and,
[25:31.300 --> 25:52.260] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, and as you said, um, create these sort of intercept intercept intercept intercepting, uh, uh, sort of, uh, messages and, and, uh, communications that, that, that basically upend the way the device is designed to be used, but speaking from, okay, well,
[25:52.420 --> 26:05.120] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, the attacker, let's, let's use a, uh, uh, an age old fairy tale, uh, because, well, that is the idyllic attacker for, uh, uh, something involving young people in this way.
[26:05.120 --> 26:06.800] [SPEAKER_10]: They invented those things here in Germany.
[26:06.980 --> 26:07.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Hansel and Gretel.
[26:08.060 --> 26:08.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[26:08.920 --> 26:11.660] [SPEAKER_10]: The, the sort of dark, dark fairy tales.
[26:11.840 --> 26:31.560] [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, absolutely that, that, that was the kind of, um, um, presentation that it, it really hit home and is something that, that everyone from a technical understanding and from the, the subculture that, that we discuss here can understand and relate to in an incredibly humorous way at the same time.
[26:31.560 --> 26:38.380] [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, you know, just to, uh, um, uh, show that, uh, kids are not being targeted in any way.
[26:38.720 --> 26:41.600] [SPEAKER_01]: Kids are welcome at the chaos communication Congress.
[26:41.900 --> 27:00.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we saw so many young people who were having the time of their lives, uh, at various, um, um, um, I, I guess, um, things, uh, activities that, that, that, that kids, uh, could participate in and they were even going to talks on their own.
[27:00.340 --> 27:12.840] [SPEAKER_01]: It was really interesting to see like packs of children, just mingling with the adults and being a part of this learning, being inspired, and I guess eventually becoming presenters and organizers.
[27:13.160 --> 27:13.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[27:13.620 --> 27:31.800] [SPEAKER_10]: They, they had an entire area, um, that was just for young people that were learning soldering and they had their own kind of, um, central area that was, uh, uh, uh, chaperoned with, with adults that were helping, um, uh, uh, check them in and, and, uh,
[27:32.000 --> 27:49.800] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, make them comfortable, you know, everything that young people need, but they were then kind of casting them, you know, cast off, just doing their own thing, uh, amongst everyone else, uh, uh, creating, uh, all kinds of different, uh, activities for them and,
[27:49.960 --> 28:10.400] [SPEAKER_10]: and that, um, they could just be independent and self-directed and take an interest and, and, and have as much fun as the rest of the, the sorts of adults and, and, uh, of course, parents, uh, were having on their own and, and having a facility for that,
[28:10.740 --> 28:19.260] [SPEAKER_10]: accommodating and just everyone appreciating that we're all at different phases of our interest in this affinity group.
[28:19.260 --> 28:22.040] [SPEAKER_10]: It was really, really kind of cool to see.
[28:22.440 --> 28:29.140] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, I think also just the, the spirit, the spirit of curiosity and fun was shared.
[28:29.640 --> 28:33.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and, and they were, they were doing all kinds of things.
[28:33.220 --> 28:35.480] [SPEAKER_10]: I, I noticed a lot of cat ears too.
[28:35.920 --> 28:42.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Cat ears and sharks and, and LEDs, uh, all kinds of things.
[28:42.480 --> 29:03.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and we had to do a little bit of research, but we found that this is, uh, this is something that is, uh, helpful to people that maybe don't quite understand, or let's say, um, especially the neurodivergent, those that are not really aligned with the sort of gender binaries that the mainstream would,
[29:03.660 --> 29:05.160] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, would have you digest.
[29:05.540 --> 29:10.180] [SPEAKER_10]: And I just love how many people at the event got in on it.
[29:10.340 --> 29:19.140] [SPEAKER_10]: It really seemed like there were more people, uh, expressing themselves with, uh, things like that than there were, uh, not doing that.
[29:19.340 --> 29:32.820] [SPEAKER_10]: And it just really felt like, uh, uh, a positive atmosphere for people that, you know, want to be comfortable and really don't find that in, uh, in the outside world.
[29:32.820 --> 29:44.060] [SPEAKER_10]: So that this is what our, um, event and our subculture, I mean, we've noticed similar trends and for us, it was affirmation.
[29:44.060 --> 29:46.980] [SPEAKER_10]: It's like, wow, this isn't, this isn't a coincidence.
[29:47.120 --> 29:51.040] [SPEAKER_10]: This is what this, uh, community has become.
[29:51.420 --> 30:11.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And it really is, um, um, it's something that for us, we have to kind of sit back and, and, uh, and take note and, and realize, wow, um, we're really driving a lot of what the, uh, the outside world hasn't, hasn't quite come to terms with and is still trying to,
[30:11.040 --> 30:14.120] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, co-opt in, in sort of hyperbolic ways.
[30:14.360 --> 30:36.660] [SPEAKER_10]: So, uh, just, just to have fun and realize that this is normal and, and, uh, uh, can be, uh, of, a way of, of, of a form of cohesion in community and acceptance, uh, really is something we want to bring back and, uh, bolster because we've, we've, uh, noticed it over the years and,
[30:36.780 --> 30:41.480] [SPEAKER_10]: and, um, small symbols, ways we can, uh, show solidarity.
[30:41.680 --> 30:45.260] [SPEAKER_10]: That's so important, especially for groups that are otherwise marginalized.
[30:45.680 --> 30:45.960] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[30:46.060 --> 30:49.080] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's hard to, um, uh, estimate crowd size.
[30:49.220 --> 30:55.160] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm pretty bad at that, but I'd have to say it's between 10 and 20,000 people show up to these things every year.
[30:55.620 --> 30:58.400] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, um, it's so inspirational.
[30:58.760 --> 31:16.520] [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it should be the goal in the states, I think, to bring communities together like this, to empower people, uh, to be open and, um, and listening and challenging and just celebrating being able to do all of that rather than, uh, living in suspicion and fear,
[31:16.720 --> 31:21.080] [SPEAKER_01]: uh, and, and, uh, hatred and, and, uh, assumptions about others.
[31:21.280 --> 31:26.860] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I didn't see any of that this week and, and it was, um, really a beautiful event.
[31:26.860 --> 31:31.900] [SPEAKER_01]: And I, I, I just hope more people can participate in that and similar events in the future.
[31:32.680 --> 31:33.200] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[31:33.200 --> 31:34.580] [SPEAKER_01]: Just the thematic.
[31:35.540 --> 31:45.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, we're, we're like, oh, we're still glowing with, uh, with the, the, the beautiful art and, and, uh, lighting and everything.
[31:46.100 --> 31:47.440] [SPEAKER_10]: It was just, it was really spot on.
[31:48.260 --> 31:53.000] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really heartwarming to hear all this from you guys too, because, you know, especially where we are now.
[31:53.220 --> 32:06.900] [SPEAKER_02]: And as we think about the closing of the year and the beginning of a new one, and just what we've been through, where we're going, um, that, that seems to tie in with so much of what we're struggling with in general, um, in this country, in this community,
[32:06.900 --> 32:07.840] [SPEAKER_02]: on this planet.
[32:08.300 --> 32:23.640] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is good to know that there, there are still the folks out there who are ready to, you know, embrace, um, the folks in this community who may be underrepresented, um, the, the gender diverse, the neurodiverse, uh, black indigenous people of color,
[32:23.780 --> 32:27.560] [SPEAKER_02]: um, you know, women, queer, queer people, anything.
[32:28.000 --> 32:34.000] [SPEAKER_02]: There are so many, uh, people who are struggling this year more than they were, I think, at this point last year.
[32:34.500 --> 32:54.300] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, uh, as we move forward into the year 26.00, um, we can all make, I think, more of an effort to, uh, check in on folks and make sure that, uh, they know that they are safe with you and that they, that they can, uh, that they can have things to contribute.
[32:54.840 --> 33:01.760] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think also the idea of operating from a place that is not a place of fear.
[33:01.760 --> 33:05.060] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm still looking at the list of what's allowed to come to the inauguration.
[33:05.690 --> 33:07.320] [SPEAKER_09]: This is a fear list.
[33:08.640 --> 33:32.180] [SPEAKER_09]: And the, it, it, it worries me for what the, um, administration may bring, because if everything that is being planned and that everybody was afraid of during the election has gotten turned into, you can't bring a raspberry pie to the inauguration, nothing's ever really going to change.
[33:32.720 --> 33:49.100] [SPEAKER_09]: And this idea that if we're operating from fear, because everything I think I'm hearing you say is that at Congress, and even maybe to a certain extent, just more in Europe in general, less operating from fear.
[33:49.340 --> 34:02.120] [SPEAKER_09]: And that personally, for me is something I'd like to see more of going into 2026, is more, more trust, more optimism, more hope.
[34:02.380 --> 34:08.100] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, I, I don't know how realistic any of that is, but a girl can dream.
[34:08.730 --> 34:09.220] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[34:09.640 --> 34:28.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, I'll say this, uh, Kyle and I were very concerned going into this, uh, and, and travel in general, uh, being labeled as Americans and, um, you know, thinking that we might be judged or, you know, um, uh, questioned harshly and that, you know,
[34:28.560 --> 34:32.500] [SPEAKER_01]: I could understand why, but we didn't get any of that.
[34:32.650 --> 34:37.570] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you know, we usually say we're from New York instead of from the U.S. that tends to get better results.
[34:38.180 --> 34:45.260] [SPEAKER_01]: But for the most part, um, uh, really without exception, uh, people were just very welcoming.
[34:45.820 --> 34:52.730] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, talking of welcoming, uh, we have been joined on this, uh, on this conversation by another of our, uh, uh, pals.
[34:52.920 --> 34:55.020] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Alex, uh, has joined Signal-land.
[34:55.460 --> 34:56.720] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, Alex, how you doing over there?
[34:57.240 --> 35:01.400] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing very, very well and happy new year from London.
[35:01.960 --> 35:03.400] [SPEAKER_03]: Happy new to everybody in New York.
[35:03.840 --> 35:05.300] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, yeah.
[35:05.660 --> 35:06.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Who's that?
[35:06.220 --> 35:06.760] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that Emmanuel?
[35:07.180 --> 35:07.540] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[35:07.610 --> 35:08.680] [SPEAKER_01]: That's old news, Alex.
[35:08.940 --> 35:12.540] [SPEAKER_01]: It's been new years here in Hamburg for almost two hours now.
[35:12.960 --> 35:13.570] [SPEAKER_03]: Two hours.
[35:13.680 --> 35:14.260] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you out of your mind?
[35:14.340 --> 35:15.900] [SPEAKER_03]: You got, you got to get your math right, Emmanuel.
[35:16.110 --> 35:18.020] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, one, six hours ahead.
[35:18.180 --> 35:19.200] [SPEAKER_01]: You're only five hours ahead.
[35:19.240 --> 35:20.200] [SPEAKER_03]: We're only five hours ahead.
[35:20.280 --> 35:20.550] [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[35:20.640 --> 35:21.960] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's 36 minutes.
[35:22.090 --> 35:23.840] [SPEAKER_03]: It's into 20, 26, 36 minutes.
[35:24.070 --> 35:25.400] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we're not doing so bad.
[35:25.520 --> 35:31.400] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm also here with, uh, number one, my beautiful wife who wants to say happy new year to everybody.
[35:31.780 --> 35:32.640] [SPEAKER_05]: Happy new year.
[35:32.880 --> 35:33.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Happy new year.
[35:33.480 --> 35:34.090] [SPEAKER_03]: Happy new year.
[35:34.090 --> 35:34.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Happy new year.
[35:35.040 --> 35:37.780] [SPEAKER_03]: That's my wife Effie and a really, really great friend of mine.
[35:37.920 --> 35:39.070] [SPEAKER_03]: We're here at the Chelsea arts club.
[35:39.220 --> 35:43.800] [SPEAKER_03]: We just celebrated new new year's Eve and new years 36 minutes ago.
[35:44.520 --> 35:50.280] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and as you know, I've, I've done many shows from here in the past over the last couple of years, wonderful place.
[35:50.610 --> 35:56.140] [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, here for the first time joining us is a friend of mine from the Chelsea arts club, Tony.
[35:56.540 --> 35:57.140] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi everybody.
[35:57.160 --> 35:58.340] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Anthony Lester.
[35:58.940 --> 36:10.050] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to wish everybody on the other side of the channel, not channel, the Atlantic, uh, a very, very, very happy new year.
[36:10.340 --> 36:12.040] [SPEAKER_00]: All good things from London.
[36:12.440 --> 36:20.280] [SPEAKER_00]: This wonderful club, the Chelsea arts club, which I've is like a big creative family, really.
[36:20.800 --> 36:27.200] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we, so we got artists, artists and sculptors and photographers and actors and directors and you name it.
[36:27.420 --> 36:28.660] [SPEAKER_00]: Anybody that creates...
[36:28.660 --> 36:28.880] [SPEAKER_00]: Hackers.
[36:29.260 --> 36:29.540] [SPEAKER_00]: What?
[36:29.700 --> 36:31.000] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got hackers here too, right?
[36:31.260 --> 36:32.260] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we got everything.
[36:32.520 --> 36:32.920] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[36:33.110 --> 36:34.760] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got everything if you're creative.
[36:37.140 --> 36:39.520] [SPEAKER_00]: You create stuff, you're welcome here.
[36:39.590 --> 36:46.340] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's a private members club, so you have to apply to become a member, but it's the best place on the planet.
[36:46.780 --> 36:52.380] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I, I'm wishing you all, all a really, really good 26.
[36:53.570 --> 36:53.980] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.
[36:54.260 --> 36:56.520] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much, Anthony, and uh, wonderful to have you with us.
[36:56.570 --> 36:56.840] [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[36:56.920 --> 36:57.880] [SPEAKER_09]: I have a question.
[36:58.640 --> 37:05.500] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, is there a fancy dress party at the Chelsea arts club, or it's just, did, did you guys just get nuts?
[37:06.160 --> 37:08.880] [SPEAKER_00]: It certainly is, yes, absolutely.
[37:09.590 --> 37:12.440] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you have to dress, otherwise I won't let you in.
[37:12.440 --> 37:12.860] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[37:13.180 --> 37:16.960] [SPEAKER_00]: So we have two balls a year, a new year and the summer ball.
[37:17.360 --> 37:18.920] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're fantastic.
[37:18.920 --> 37:22.320] [SPEAKER_00]: They decorate the, uh, exterior of the club.
[37:22.550 --> 37:24.980] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been in this building since 1902.
[37:25.500 --> 37:32.540] [SPEAKER_00]: And Whistler was the American artist who founded the club for us in the late 19th century.
[37:32.780 --> 37:33.940] [SPEAKER_09]: As in of the mother?
[37:35.460 --> 37:36.070] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[37:36.320 --> 37:36.720] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[37:36.920 --> 37:37.570] [SPEAKER_00]: Whistler's mother.
[37:38.220 --> 37:40.740] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was, he was the founder of it.
[37:41.240 --> 37:41.660] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[37:41.860 --> 37:48.220] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, a lot of people don't realize Whistler was quite a, uh, a pugilist and a contrarian, you know, he actually enrolled.
[37:48.520 --> 37:52.240] [SPEAKER_03]: He was a, he was a cadet at West Point who dropped out.
[37:52.360 --> 37:56.540] [SPEAKER_03]: He got basically got kicked out of West Point and then moved to London and became an artist.
[37:57.300 --> 38:01.090] [SPEAKER_03]: So, uh, I'm quite a good artist, quite a, quite a great artist.
[38:01.140 --> 38:05.300] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and I think he embodies the spirit of, of the hacker community in that sense.
[38:05.540 --> 38:05.740] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[38:05.960 --> 38:08.380] [SPEAKER_01]: The things you learn on WBAI, it's amazing.
[38:09.220 --> 38:09.920] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[38:10.220 --> 38:26.050] [SPEAKER_00]: Now the thing he's thinking was, if I may say a few more words, Whistler's thinking was artists are stuck in their studio because Chelsea in the late 19th century was literally, there were hundreds of artists here, painters, and they were spending all day on their own paint,
[38:26.240 --> 38:26.820] [SPEAKER_00]: just painting.
[38:27.140 --> 38:34.570] [SPEAKER_00]: And he thought it would be great to have a club where you could all come in the evening and have a beer, have a chat, have a cigar or cigarette.
[38:34.820 --> 38:36.540] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why he created it.
[38:37.750 --> 38:39.240] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're still going strong.
[38:41.610 --> 38:41.980] [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.
[38:41.980 --> 38:47.420] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it, uh, it looks like you're having a great time out there and, uh, we definitely appreciate you, uh, checking in with us over here.
[38:47.740 --> 38:51.760] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, so far, I'll, I'll ask, uh, I'll ask all of you on the, uh, panel here.
[38:52.020 --> 38:56.480] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, first, uh, those of you in England, how's 2026 treating you so far?
[38:56.880 --> 39:01.540] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, on my side, I have, I have to say I'm, I'm hanging out here with Tony and talking with you guys.
[39:01.680 --> 39:04.070] [SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty wonderful beginning to 2026.
[39:04.360 --> 39:09.610] [SPEAKER_03]: And if it's a, if, if it portends anything to come, I think 2026 will be great.
[39:10.140 --> 39:12.940] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's in the lap of whoever.
[39:13.800 --> 39:14.540] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[39:14.780 --> 39:15.360] [SPEAKER_00]: Who knows?
[39:15.640 --> 39:18.820] [SPEAKER_00]: I never make predictions because that's fatal.
[39:19.720 --> 39:22.760] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, all I can say is love and peace to everybody.
[39:23.320 --> 39:25.050] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, all the same to you and yours.
[39:25.320 --> 39:26.110] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[39:26.110 --> 39:26.680] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Peter.
[39:27.500 --> 39:27.660] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[39:27.820 --> 39:30.110] [SPEAKER_01]: But I gotta say, I'm still disappointed in 2026.
[39:30.860 --> 39:31.460] [SPEAKER_01]: I just...
[39:36.400 --> 39:36.580] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[39:37.700 --> 39:43.640] [SPEAKER_03]: Emmanuel, can I ask you guys, are you guys, because I missed the, the, the earlier bits, but, um, you guys in Hamburg?
[39:44.540 --> 39:45.360] [SPEAKER_01]: We are in Hamburg.
[39:45.520 --> 39:46.100] [SPEAKER_01]: That is correct.
[39:46.420 --> 39:48.660] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how you figured that out, but yeah, we are in Hamburg.
[39:49.100 --> 39:49.420] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[39:49.680 --> 39:49.820] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[39:49.860 --> 39:51.020] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, look, I'm pretty crafty.
[39:51.100 --> 39:56.200] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, everybody says I'm smarter than I look, so I put the pieces together and I figured it out and wonderful.
[39:56.460 --> 39:57.220] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, great to hear it.
[39:57.220 --> 39:59.660] [SPEAKER_03]: So, so you celebrated New Year's before us.
[39:59.800 --> 40:01.140] [SPEAKER_03]: Rob and Gila still have it going.
[40:01.680 --> 40:08.800] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I think one of the special things we really have to reflect on is this whole past year, we, we had a lot of agreements.
[40:08.960 --> 40:10.020] [SPEAKER_03]: We had a lot of disagreements.
[40:10.140 --> 40:18.960] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we agreed more than we disagreed, but maybe, maybe it was on equal measure, but, or at least equal degree, but it wouldn't be possible without a place like WBAI.
[40:19.500 --> 40:25.620] [SPEAKER_03]: And I really think that we have to, to be thankful for the Pacifica radio network.
[40:25.900 --> 40:28.880] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and remember that it doesn't exist without listener support.
[40:28.980 --> 40:32.000] [SPEAKER_03]: So please give to and support WBAI.
[40:32.160 --> 40:33.440] [SPEAKER_03]: We can't do this without you.
[40:33.620 --> 40:36.300] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a wonderful 2025 because of you.
[40:36.300 --> 40:39.960] [SPEAKER_03]: And we need you to continue going on like this.
[40:40.440 --> 40:41.040] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[40:41.480 --> 40:48.640] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't just say this every week, you know, we actually are, are seeing from listeners and supporters everywhere.
[40:49.020 --> 40:54.280] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we were hearing from them how much this place actually means and they are contributing.
[40:54.280 --> 40:56.720] [SPEAKER_01]: They are helping to support this place.
[40:56.720 --> 41:01.340] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are still here and getting stronger every day because of those people.
[41:02.240 --> 41:02.680] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[41:03.000 --> 41:08.300] [SPEAKER_02]: Our, our friend, uh, Reggie said before, uh, this program started and, uh, he was updating folks, uh, listening.
[41:08.660 --> 41:12.980] [SPEAKER_02]: The, we have actually at the station achieved our fundraising goal for the year.
[41:13.220 --> 41:15.000] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we've, we have surpassed it.
[41:15.160 --> 41:19.100] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and we have about four hours and change left to suppress it even more.
[41:19.260 --> 41:28.520] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you'd like to continue to throw in on what we do here, check out buddy.wbai.org or, uh, call 833-WBAI-NYC.
[41:28.700 --> 41:34.460] [SPEAKER_02]: That's 833-922-4692 and do what you can to keep us doing what we do.
[41:34.620 --> 41:34.860] [SPEAKER_02]: Alex.
[41:35.660 --> 41:41.500] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I just want to say to all my colleagues, all my friends, all the listeners out in New York, happy new year from Tony and me, Tony.
[41:41.760 --> 41:42.200] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[41:42.600 --> 41:47.240] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a big good night, peace and love to everybody from London.
[41:47.660 --> 41:48.200] [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[41:48.340 --> 41:48.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Good night, everybody.
[41:48.880 --> 41:49.700] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm signing off.
[41:49.800 --> 41:50.660] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll see you in the new year.
[41:51.360 --> 41:52.120] [SPEAKER_02]: Good night, Alex.
[41:52.300 --> 41:52.580] [SPEAKER_02]: Happy new year.
[41:52.800 --> 41:52.880] [SPEAKER_03]: Good night, Alex.
[41:52.900 --> 41:53.340] [SPEAKER_03]: Good night, Emmanuel.
[41:53.460 --> 41:53.940] [SPEAKER_03]: Good night, Kyle.
[41:54.220 --> 41:54.840] [SPEAKER_03]: Good night, everybody.
[41:54.980 --> 41:55.480] [SPEAKER_03]: Gila, Rob.
[41:55.680 --> 41:55.940] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[41:57.940 --> 42:02.820] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting how, uh, we're an hour ahead and they sign off before us.
[42:04.120 --> 42:11.980] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, um, I, we, we can't see you, but, uh, they seem to be having a very fancy dress party and, um, obviously there's a lot more going on over there.
[42:12.220 --> 42:14.520] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you, you two might be wearing costumes as well.
[42:14.720 --> 42:17.060] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm not going to begin to describe what they were wearing.
[42:17.200 --> 42:20.160] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just let, you know, those listening use their imaginations.
[42:20.660 --> 42:23.600] [SPEAKER_02]: But, um, whatever you're imagining, it's probably accurate.
[42:24.040 --> 42:31.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, we do have, uh, some very fancy costumes on, uh, international treaties forbid us from, from transmitting that.
[42:32.360 --> 42:32.880] [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.
[42:33.140 --> 42:36.040] [SPEAKER_02]: I think, um, I, I'm actually dressed as a raspberry pie right now.
[42:36.040 --> 42:37.300] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm dressed as a flipper zero.
[42:38.100 --> 42:40.080] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm glad we're not planning on going tomorrow.
[42:40.620 --> 42:45.880] [SPEAKER_09]: Um, but no, I think this is a wonderful international new year celebration.
[42:45.880 --> 42:49.480] [SPEAKER_09]: We have fireworks coming from Germany.
[42:49.500 --> 42:56.020] [SPEAKER_09]: We have a fancy dress party in London and you know, we're just holding down the fort here in New York City.
[42:56.020 --> 42:56.040] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[42:56.160 --> 42:58.560] [SPEAKER_02]: We've had a couple of firecrackers out the window here in Queens too.
[42:58.700 --> 43:02.060] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if those have been picked up, but, uh, a couple of firecrackers.
[43:02.160 --> 43:02.400] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[43:02.580 --> 43:02.840] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[43:03.580 --> 43:04.700] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big deal for us.
[43:04.820 --> 43:04.920] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[43:05.700 --> 43:05.900] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[43:05.940 --> 43:07.420] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think we're a couple of firecrackers.
[43:07.640 --> 43:09.940] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, certainly.
[43:11.160 --> 43:12.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Give them time.
[43:12.200 --> 43:13.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Give them time, Emmanuel.
[43:13.620 --> 43:14.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Just, it's, it's, it's fine.
[43:14.880 --> 43:16.400] [SPEAKER_10]: I know you got to blow things up real good.
[43:16.720 --> 43:16.860] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[43:17.660 --> 43:22.540] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we, we've still got some more time yet to, to get our, to get our pyromania satiated.
[43:23.340 --> 43:26.100] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but, uh, so, but, um, I'm sorry.
[43:26.180 --> 43:26.540] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm broken.
[43:28.880 --> 43:29.920] [SPEAKER_09]: Emmanuel has broken me.
[43:30.040 --> 43:30.300] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm broken.
[43:32.240 --> 43:34.900] [SPEAKER_02]: This is an excellent way to, to see the year out on this program.
[43:35.200 --> 43:44.520] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I want to, I want to mention, uh, you know, talking of, uh, the value of community and finding your folks, uh, 2600 meetings are happening all over the world this Friday.
[43:44.780 --> 43:48.140] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, go to 2600.com/meetings to find yours.
[43:48.380 --> 43:53.380] [SPEAKER_02]: Our local one is happening at the, uh, city group building on 53rd and, uh, Lexington.
[43:53.540 --> 44:01.120] [SPEAKER_02]: You can find more info on that, on that meeting site, nyc2600.net and, uh, check it out.
[44:01.280 --> 44:01.980] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll, I'll be there.
[44:02.080 --> 44:03.000] [SPEAKER_02]: I look forward to seeing folks.
[44:03.920 --> 44:04.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[44:04.560 --> 44:11.860] [SPEAKER_10]: I, I would like to just, uh, second that and encourage people to join, uh, take note, uh, participate.
[44:12.020 --> 44:14.600] [SPEAKER_10]: We have a lot of exciting things ahead.
[44:14.600 --> 44:24.220] [SPEAKER_10]: We really want the enthusiasm and the excitement for, um, the hacker diaspora, the people, this, this sort of global.
[44:24.460 --> 44:47.680] [SPEAKER_10]: And as, um, as they say here, this galactic community of, uh, hobbyists and, uh, technology enthusiasts that they're active this year and that, um, that we support one another, that we help, uh, convey different ideas about technology, but, uh, that we also are there for one another.
[44:48.020 --> 44:53.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, you can do that by showing up, please, please show up.
[44:53.160 --> 45:02.500] [SPEAKER_10]: We need as much as we can, um, um, in every regard, as far as participation and excitement, there is a lot to learn.
[45:02.660 --> 45:03.840] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lot to accomplish.
[45:03.860 --> 45:07.700] [SPEAKER_10]: So I really am, I'm hopeful for that in this year.
[45:07.940 --> 45:08.320] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[45:08.400 --> 45:16.060] [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much that has come out of, um, the meetings and just, uh, people getting together for various purposes.
[45:16.720 --> 45:18.200] [SPEAKER_01]: Communities are built this way.
[45:18.300 --> 45:33.060] [SPEAKER_01]: And what we saw over the past several days are a bunch of communities getting together from all over the world and just being able to freely express themselves and, and be creative and share their knowledge.
[45:33.580 --> 45:41.600] [SPEAKER_01]: And none of this would have happened had people not gotten together in smaller communities and built on that.
[45:41.700 --> 45:43.320] [SPEAKER_01]: And we need to do more of that back home.
[45:43.620 --> 45:56.460] [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes we forget, you know, it's, it's always inspirational when you go to an event like CCC and you realize, wow, there are so many of us and we're such cool people.
[45:56.640 --> 46:01.340] [SPEAKER_01]: We're so smart and funny and just filled with potential.
[46:01.620 --> 46:08.880] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there we're inspiring others from other parts of the world and building a much healthier environment.
[46:09.000 --> 46:11.420] [SPEAKER_01]: We can do that in New York.
[46:11.420 --> 46:25.400] [SPEAKER_01]: We can do that in Chicago, in Los Angeles, all over the world and come together and really have fun, show the rest of the world, you know, the way things really can work if we put our heads together.
[46:25.740 --> 46:34.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we really are, uh, collectively so beautiful and individually, uh, seeing people elevated, seeing people shine.
[46:34.980 --> 46:37.020] [SPEAKER_10]: It is itself.
[46:37.280 --> 46:38.500] [SPEAKER_10]: It's beautiful to see.
[46:38.840 --> 46:45.740] [SPEAKER_10]: And I really want that for, uh, for, uh, for so many and many people are looking to us.
[46:45.980 --> 47:06.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and I just, I just want people to know that, you know, there's, if you have some knowledge, if you have some, uh, enthusiasm for this kind of stuff, please, uh, uh, remember that, that you have an incredible role in leading and, uh, showing people the way,
[47:06.360 --> 47:13.820] [SPEAKER_10]: showing people, um, uh, that they're worthwhile, that they can, uh, do as much themselves.
[47:15.380 --> 47:15.860] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[47:16.500 --> 47:21.980] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, for those who were not able to make it to CCC, the, uh, talks are posted.
[47:22.120 --> 47:25.520] [SPEAKER_02]: There are videos up at media.ccc.de.
[47:25.900 --> 47:30.240] [SPEAKER_02]: There's an English language site there for you, for you to use as well as German and, uh, so on.
[47:30.560 --> 47:32.620] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are some great talks.
[47:32.720 --> 47:43.520] [SPEAKER_02]: There's one by our friend Cory Doctorow that has been making the rounds a lot on social media and we cannot say the title of it on the radio because it contains one of those words that we could get in trouble for saying.
[47:43.820 --> 47:57.160] [SPEAKER_02]: But it is, uh, it is a really inspiring talk about, uh, ways in which we could build and support chunks of the Internet that work around the damage that is being done to it by those with, uh, ill intent.
[47:57.940 --> 48:02.340] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, uh, that and so many more things are on media.ccc.de.
[48:02.360 --> 48:15.160] [SPEAKER_02]: They're free for streaming, for downloading, for keeping, and, uh, you're, you're, you're, you can, you can totally blow an afternoon or longer, um, just, uh, browsing through what's up there and finding things to, to watch.
[48:15.500 --> 48:19.300] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you guys, did you, did you see any good, uh, good talks that, uh, you want to talk about?
[48:19.300 --> 48:21.800] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we, we saw his talk for sure.
[48:22.080 --> 48:28.200] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and, uh, it was, it was great chatting with him and just hanging out for a while over here in Hamburg.
[48:28.420 --> 48:35.180] [SPEAKER_01]: But the fact that we can't even say the name of his talk, uh, that's indicative of the problems that we have back home.
[48:35.320 --> 48:36.680] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to grow out of that.
[48:36.820 --> 48:41.220] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to act like mature adults and be able to say grown up words.
[48:41.380 --> 48:48.320] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who we're protecting, but the whole world is able to say the name of what Cory Doctorow is talking about.
[48:48.500 --> 48:51.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's, it's, uh, it sums up so much.
[48:51.660 --> 48:53.880] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I know we saw other talks as well.
[48:54.040 --> 48:57.320] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you have some, uh, so some thoughts on that.
[48:57.900 --> 49:23.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, certainly, I mean, that, that talk in particular, it was incredible, phenomenal delivery and just a positive spin on, uh, the sorts of byproducts of what was otherwise some, some, uh, uh, uh, events and, and, uh, developments that have been kind of negative and specifically talking about repealing anti-circumvention and other laws,
[49:23.360 --> 49:49.940] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, derived from the DMCA as a way around, um, uh, uh, the kinds of, um, uh, in basically, uh, captive, uh, audiences and consumers in, in various platforms with platform decay as it's termed and, uh, and other systems, uh, this very much applies, I think,
[49:50.080 --> 49:52.180] [SPEAKER_10]: to right to repair issues.
[49:52.400 --> 50:17.420] [SPEAKER_10]: The, uh, the fact that we can't, uh, modify things that we own, uh, repealing the sorts of criminalization of that, um, especially in countries where they've already been at the effect of tariffs, uh, I think is a pretty sound logic and a, and a worthy response because there's really nothing left barring,
[50:17.580 --> 50:19.680] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, uh, uh, kinetic attack.
[50:19.680 --> 50:38.720] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, when you've basically upended the economic system, what, what, what's stopping economies from, uh, uh, doing a 180 and saying, all right, we're going to allow and, and sell the technologies that allow people to truly modify own devices or, uh,
[50:38.900 --> 50:39.820] [SPEAKER_10]: interoperate.
[50:39.880 --> 50:44.960] [SPEAKER_10]: That was another strong theme in, in his discussion, which is interoperability.
[50:45.240 --> 50:53.360] [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, among the talks that we saw, um, there was, uh, uh, uh, if there's anything you'd like to mention really quickly while we have a couple of minutes left.
[50:54.360 --> 50:59.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Surely just the in-depth talk about the, uh, diesel gate, uh, 10 years on.
[50:59.760 --> 51:17.440] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, of course there was a talk about, uh, and these are specific examples of the kinds of things Corey was talking, speaking to these are case in point, but also, uh, implantable, like, um, uh, pacemakers, uh, and defibrillators, medical devices,
[51:17.660 --> 51:27.400] [SPEAKER_10]: essentially, all applicable to, uh, to that idea that, um, we've given far too much power to, uh, very few companies.
[51:27.840 --> 51:28.100] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:28.240 --> 51:29.560] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll have to, we'll have to leave it there.
[51:29.780 --> 51:35.920] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, wishing you the best on your travels, wishing all of you listening a very happy and healthy 2026.
[51:36.160 --> 51:40.260] [SPEAKER_02]: Send us email oth@2600.com.
[51:40.920 --> 51:43.500] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, keep, uh, keep being curious.
[51:43.660 --> 51:44.540] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep asking questions.
[51:44.920 --> 51:48.500] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep, uh, keep your eyes open for off the hook.
[51:49.580 --> 51:50.520] [SPEAKER_02]: This has been Rob T. Firefly.
[51:50.620 --> 51:50.960] [SPEAKER_02]: Firefly.
[51:52.220 --> 51:53.220] [SPEAKER_02]: Have a very good night.