[00:17.560 --> 00:20.160] [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to Verizon Wireless.
[00:20.460 --> 00:22.720] [SPEAKER_06]: We cannot complete your call at this time.
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[00:25.180 --> 00:29.120] [SPEAKER_06]: 0-0-1-8-0-0-8.
[00:29.420 --> 00:30.580] [SPEAKER_06]: Announcement 2.
[00:35.800 --> 00:40.400] [SPEAKER_03]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:41.240 --> 00:45.880] [SPEAKER_03]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:46.540 --> 00:48.720] [SPEAKER_03]: We couldn't get much worse.
[00:48.720 --> 00:54.160] [SPEAKER_03]: But really, mom, for the best, expect the worst.
[00:54.800 --> 00:56.700] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope that's understood.
[00:57.040 --> 00:57.670] [SPEAKER_03]: But really, no!
[01:56.370 --> 01:59.190] [SPEAKER_10]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:59.270 --> 02:00.450] [SPEAKER_10]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:00.930 --> 02:03.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:04.070 --> 02:05.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:05.790 --> 02:06.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, hello.
[02:06.890 --> 02:10.090] [SPEAKER_10]: And out in Signal-land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
[02:12.150 --> 02:13.010] [SPEAKER_01]: Good evening.
[02:13.350 --> 02:14.890] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have Gila.
[02:15.310 --> 02:16.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, you do.
[02:16.130 --> 02:16.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[02:16.890 --> 02:18.410] [SPEAKER_10]: We do not have Alex this week.
[02:19.570 --> 02:24.510] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I didn't get a chance to really read the email, but maybe I skimmed it too fast.
[02:24.610 --> 02:26.830] [SPEAKER_10]: But he's auditioning for an episode of Survivor?
[02:28.290 --> 02:29.710] [SPEAKER_10]: That's how I read it.
[02:30.130 --> 02:30.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, whatever.
[02:31.030 --> 02:32.510] [SPEAKER_10]: Wish you the best of luck on that.
[02:33.010 --> 02:34.530] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm sure he'll be back next week.
[02:35.250 --> 02:39.530] [SPEAKER_10]: But we have all kinds of things to talk about here on this edition of the show.
[02:40.550 --> 02:49.110] [SPEAKER_10]: All kinds of things about hacking, technology, the future, mistakes that are being made, scandals, that sort of thing.
[02:49.710 --> 02:53.410] [SPEAKER_10]: We have Overtime that follows this show on YouTube.
[02:53.690 --> 02:56.970] [SPEAKER_10]: Just go to Channel2600 on YouTube at 8 o'clock.
[02:57.110 --> 02:59.630] [SPEAKER_10]: And you can phone in.
[02:59.730 --> 03:00.730] [SPEAKER_10]: You can be part of the conversation.
[03:00.730 --> 03:03.170] [SPEAKER_10]: You can hear us ramble on a bit more.
[03:03.610 --> 03:04.890] [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be talking about hope.
[03:05.230 --> 03:06.830] [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of people have questions about that.
[03:07.110 --> 03:13.070] [SPEAKER_10]: I got to see the Nikola Tesla rooms at the New Yorker Hotel, which is where the conference will be.
[03:13.930 --> 03:20.750] [SPEAKER_10]: And, boy, that was interesting, where Nikola Tesla lived and died in the New Yorker Hotel right here in New York City.
[03:20.850 --> 03:22.290] [SPEAKER_10]: That's pretty incredible.
[03:22.870 --> 03:23.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I've never seen that before.
[03:24.170 --> 03:26.290] [SPEAKER_10]: That's the incredible part that I had never seen it before.
[03:26.850 --> 03:29.350] [SPEAKER_10]: But, yeah, a little bit of history there.
[03:29.510 --> 03:32.490] [SPEAKER_10]: A little bit of hacker history, I guess you'd say.
[03:33.810 --> 03:34.410] [SPEAKER_01]: Very cool.
[03:34.570 --> 03:37.610] [SPEAKER_01]: I look forward to being a bit closer to that chunk of hacker history.
[03:38.730 --> 03:39.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, indeed.
[03:40.110 --> 03:43.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, but we have some interesting news items here.
[03:43.890 --> 03:45.830] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you guys have been following this.
[03:45.930 --> 03:50.230] [SPEAKER_10]: We have a couple of small stories, smallish stories, and we have a big story.
[03:50.390 --> 03:52.530] [SPEAKER_10]: So let's start with a couple of the small ones.
[03:53.210 --> 04:00.910] [SPEAKER_10]: This has to do with people and the so-called smart glasses, which, yeah, we've seen a few of those around.
[04:01.910 --> 04:06.590] [SPEAKER_10]: This is a story that came from BBC about Alice, not her real name.
[04:06.590 --> 04:11.950] [SPEAKER_10]: And she was covertly filmed by a man wearing smart glasses.
[04:13.310 --> 04:18.990] [SPEAKER_10]: He then, believe it or not, requested money to remove the video from social media.
[04:19.710 --> 04:24.750] [SPEAKER_10]: She contacted the man who posted the video, telling him it made her feel humiliated.
[04:24.750 --> 04:31.010] [SPEAKER_10]: But when she asked for it to be taken down, was told that he would only remove it as a paid service.
[04:31.790 --> 04:41.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Alice is one of many women who have spoken to the BBC about the distress they have endured after being recorded and posted online without their knowledge or consent.
[04:42.170 --> 04:46.010] [SPEAKER_10]: BBC contacted the man who filmed and posted the video of Alice.
[04:46.010 --> 04:52.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Alice, he refused to be interviewed, but in an email, said he does not seek to cause distress or harm.
[04:53.150 --> 04:54.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, guess what, pal?
[04:54.550 --> 04:55.410] [SPEAKER_10]: You're doing it anyway.
[04:56.030 --> 05:06.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Alice was walking into a London shopping center when she was approached by a man wearing smart glasses, which apparently she didn't know at the time that they were recording her.
[05:07.170 --> 05:10.950] [SPEAKER_10]: In the moment, I just thought, hey, this guy's just trying to talk to me, chat me up.
[05:11.150 --> 05:14.790] [SPEAKER_10]: I was hoping that he would leave me alone eventually, but he did actually follow me.
[05:15.170 --> 05:18.970] [SPEAKER_10]: The video was then posted on social media, viewed about 40,000 times.
[05:19.670 --> 05:22.690] [SPEAKER_10]: But Alice only found out about it after a friend sent it to her.
[05:23.170 --> 05:25.310] [SPEAKER_10]: My initial reaction was complete shock.
[05:25.310 --> 05:26.250] [SPEAKER_10]: He had no phone.
[05:26.390 --> 05:28.730] [SPEAKER_10]: He didn't have a camera directly in my face.
[05:30.030 --> 05:32.550] [SPEAKER_10]: And videos like this are often posted on social media.
[05:33.630 --> 05:41.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Basically, this one was about giving dating advice to other men online by apparently talking to random people.
[05:42.110 --> 05:54.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Alice contacted the BBC following an investigation which exposed how smart glasses are being used to create harmful content by male influencers after a woman from Brighton spoke out.
[05:54.930 --> 06:00.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Alice contacted the account that posted the video of her asking for it to be taken down.
[06:00.050 --> 06:03.730] [SPEAKER_10]: She told the man who posted it that it made her feel humiliated.
[06:03.850 --> 06:08.270] [SPEAKER_10]: And in the email she received back, he said he would remove it as a paid service.
[06:10.810 --> 06:14.330] [SPEAKER_10]: And she says, that made me feel exploited and powerless.
[06:15.470 --> 06:21.810] [SPEAKER_10]: She added she never considered paying the money and she reported the incident to the police who opened an investigation.
[06:21.810 --> 06:30.510] [SPEAKER_10]: But despite initial inquiries, officers weren't able to progress the investigation due to limited information.
[06:32.250 --> 06:35.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the story just keeps getting more and more bizarre.
[06:37.570 --> 06:53.050] [SPEAKER_10]: When asked about his attempts to charge her money, the man initially said he did not require payment in exchange for removing content and was open to reviewing any situations where there had been any misunderstanding or miscommunication in specific instances.
[06:53.410 --> 06:56.750] [SPEAKER_10]: But he did not remove the video.
[06:57.530 --> 07:12.270] [SPEAKER_10]: And the thing that's really annoying here is that this guy did not give permission for his name to be revealed by BBC.
[07:12.850 --> 07:27.170] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't understand how you can go and film somebody without their permission, without them even knowing there's a camera involved, and post that, get away with it, and yet you get to say to the people asking you, what the hell are you doing?
[07:27.610 --> 07:28.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Don't use my name.
[07:28.810 --> 07:30.290] [SPEAKER_10]: I wish to remain anonymous.
[07:30.590 --> 07:35.230] [SPEAKER_10]: You get to enjoy that, but not the people that you victimize.
[07:35.410 --> 07:38.710] [SPEAKER_10]: So I would say, BBC, you probably know who this guy is.
[07:39.590 --> 07:41.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Let his name out, you know?
[07:41.690 --> 07:47.530] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see how he reacts to being in the public eye when he doesn't want to be in the public eye.
[07:47.890 --> 07:55.090] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's one thing to film people in public or to film people when they know they're being filmed.
[07:55.810 --> 08:05.470] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, they may not wind up looking very good, but if they agreed to be filmed in the first place, that's just, you know, the hazard that you go through when you're being filmed.
[08:05.650 --> 08:11.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Or if you're a public figure, you know, of one sort or another, okay, you're always on camera in one form.
[08:12.270 --> 08:26.970] [SPEAKER_10]: But in this particular case, where somebody is just walking into a shopping center, and, you know, you approach them with your nerdy glasses, and anything you say to them now is a permanent record for everybody to see, that's just not right.
[08:26.970 --> 08:32.890] [SPEAKER_10]: And I see this as a possible future that we seem to be tumbling into.
[08:33.210 --> 08:34.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Any thoughts, guys?
[08:35.470 --> 08:40.050] [SPEAKER_00]: It may be the future, but this is also so the past.
[08:40.310 --> 08:51.070] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a thing that has happened in so many ways, because every time there is a new recording technology, people are going to find ways to use it to be creepers.
[08:52.810 --> 08:55.630] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't think there's really any way around it.
[08:55.730 --> 09:03.550] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think about, you know, people who would, like, put early video cameras in public toilets, because that's the kind of thing they wanted to do.
[09:03.630 --> 09:06.870] [SPEAKER_00]: And people didn't know, and people didn't consent to participating, but they did.
[09:06.990 --> 09:12.010] [SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing I was thinking about was, a few weeks ago, I had a doctor's appointment, and they sent me to get blood drawn.
[09:12.550 --> 09:16.030] [SPEAKER_00]: And in the middle of the blood draw, I screamed and pulled out my phone and took a picture.
[09:16.970 --> 09:18.510] [SPEAKER_00]: And the tech said, are you okay?
[09:18.510 --> 09:26.630] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I'm fine, but there's a sign on the wall that I thought was amazing, which had a big sign on it that said, no audio or video recording.
[09:27.170 --> 09:36.430] [SPEAKER_00]: The use of any AI-enabled technology with audio or video recording capabilities, including wearables such as glasses, hats, pins, or other incorporated apparel, is prohibited in this facility.
[09:36.790 --> 09:39.750] [SPEAKER_00]: Please disable recording and AI functionality before entering.
[09:39.910 --> 09:40.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Wait a minute.
[09:40.310 --> 09:41.150] [SPEAKER_10]: That made you scream?
[09:42.230 --> 09:43.890] [SPEAKER_00]: I was so excited to see that.
[09:44.490 --> 09:47.110] [SPEAKER_10]: That you immediately violated the rule by recording it.
[09:47.330 --> 09:48.330] [SPEAKER_10]: No, I just took a picture.
[09:48.510 --> 09:49.130] [SPEAKER_10]: That's recording.
[09:51.330 --> 09:52.870] [SPEAKER_00]: This is audio or video recording.
[09:53.030 --> 09:54.550] [SPEAKER_00]: This was a standstill picture.
[09:54.870 --> 09:55.210] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[09:55.870 --> 09:57.110] [SPEAKER_10]: It's too bad Alex isn't here this week.
[09:57.270 --> 09:58.190] [SPEAKER_10]: He could wait on this.
[09:58.450 --> 10:00.410] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, but I think this is the thing.
[10:00.530 --> 10:02.490] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't, you can.
[10:02.690 --> 10:05.090] [SPEAKER_00]: People are going to be sneaky and people are going to be creepy.
[10:06.430 --> 10:25.570] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also reminded of when I lived in Minnesota and they passed a concealed carry law and the state policy on what you had to do if people weren't allowed to carry concealed weapons on your property was to put up a sign that had a specific font size and a specific wording that said you're not allowed to carry guns on this property.
[10:25.570 --> 10:28.770] [SPEAKER_00]: But there was no other way to check on it.
[10:28.770 --> 10:34.390] [SPEAKER_00]: There were, there was no teeth in the, uh, administration.
[10:35.410 --> 10:38.090] [SPEAKER_00]: And this, again, people are going to be creepy.
[10:38.810 --> 10:42.770] [SPEAKER_00]: What is it that can be done to stop this?
[10:43.530 --> 10:49.290] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's the specific kind of creepy too, because this is, um, a misogyny machine.
[10:49.590 --> 10:52.670] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that is, you know, this, this category of a thing.
[10:52.810 --> 11:06.890] [SPEAKER_01]: I think, I, I think the vast majority, and I don't have numbers in front of me or data to support this, but I'm going to go out and say that my hypothesis is that this is, um, men being creepy at women and then using that content to entertain other misogynists.
[11:06.890 --> 11:17.130] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a huge following online for people like this who, uh, just want to see, um, women being taken down a peg for being women and, uh, things like that.
[11:17.250 --> 11:22.710] [SPEAKER_01]: And that sort of thing has been fueled by every sort of, um, technology you could adapt to the purpose.
[11:22.990 --> 11:40.150] [SPEAKER_01]: And now it's all the more, it's all the more out in front because these glasses, um, are very easy to use to, to, to be a creep and to be the specific kind of creep who takes, uh, who takes videos in which they intentionally, um, harass a woman, make her look bad,
[11:40.270 --> 11:50.050] [SPEAKER_01]: make her look, uh, you know, whatever, then put the video online to entertain other creeps and then try and extort the, uh, subject of the video by saying, I'll take your video down.
[11:50.270 --> 11:53.130] [SPEAKER_01]: If you pay me money, it's extortion via smart glasses these days.
[11:53.290 --> 11:54.790] [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of extortion via smartphone.
[11:54.790 --> 12:08.690] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there were probably still are men being creepy at women and female presenting people when Pokemon Go was a thing, right?
[12:08.770 --> 12:15.110] [SPEAKER_00]: You'd see people on the train and like, ostensibly they're playing Pokemon Go, but they were taking pictures.
[12:15.970 --> 12:18.250] [SPEAKER_00]: People were trying to upskirt on Pokemon Go.
[12:19.730 --> 12:25.710] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's, so again, the tools may be different, but this is not new.
[12:26.370 --> 12:29.930] [SPEAKER_00]: It's gross and it's frustrating, but it's not new.
[12:30.830 --> 12:46.470] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I just wanted to add, uh, it's since the reason, uh, I mean, I've talked about it before as like a behavioral thing, but if, if we're at a point where people can't use these things and don't, um, use them in responsible or respectful ways, like a civil,
[12:46.470 --> 13:07.330] [SPEAKER_07]: uh, way in public space, much in the way you would expect, um, uh, people to act with any other camera, you know, um, asking permission or, you know, generally keeping your distance and, you know, don't violate people, uh, um, people's space and their privacy.
[13:07.670 --> 13:20.350] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but another aspect of this, it just, it's seems to me that there should be a recourse where people should be, um, uh, demanding or, or asking for a way to opt out.
[13:20.490 --> 13:32.310] [SPEAKER_07]: And, and that would be the kind of thing that, um, we could do in an event of like a situation where social norms aren't really, um, enough of a guardrail.
[13:32.450 --> 13:34.430] [SPEAKER_07]: Then another approach I think is opting out.
[13:34.550 --> 13:42.910] [SPEAKER_07]: And what I mean by that is like, uh, doing it in a sort of mechanized way or, uh, uh, automated way, uh, where you force it in real time.
[13:43.030 --> 14:10.150] [SPEAKER_07]: Cause, uh, I agree these, these other ideas, uh, after the fact are fantastic, but, um, since these are computational photography devices, what's so difficult about, um, having some kind of, uh, uh, signal or, um, uh, use some, um, method of connectivity or a beacon of some kind that,
[14:10.150 --> 14:29.110] [SPEAKER_07]: um, immediately blurs or otherwise obfuscates somebody who has chosen to force an opt out on devices like these, especially in the event that we're to accept it widely and that it becomes a real hazard, there should be a demand for this additional feature,
[14:29.550 --> 14:40.910] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, stuff like that so that people aren't, as we're kind of, uh, theorizing more or less powerless to really kind of abusive behaviors with this stuff.
[14:41.030 --> 14:41.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[14:41.450 --> 14:43.750] [SPEAKER_10]: And also, you know, what, what Gila says is absolutely true.
[14:43.850 --> 14:53.630] [SPEAKER_10]: This is nothing new, but what, what is different here, uh, is that, um, when somebody is caught doing this, uh, they're not brought up on charges, uh, rather they're allowed to continue.
[14:53.830 --> 15:02.290] [SPEAKER_10]: So when someone is filming, uh, you know, a bathroom or a changing room, something like that, uh, they usually get, uh, brought up on criminal charges, uh, for, for invading privacy.
[15:02.610 --> 15:11.510] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, uh, this particular case, it shows up on YouTube, shows up on, um, um, um, uh, meta outlets, TikTok, all over the place.
[15:11.650 --> 15:14.310] [SPEAKER_10]: And you really have to fight like hell to get it taken down.
[15:14.430 --> 15:15.550] [SPEAKER_10]: And that shouldn't be the case.
[15:15.690 --> 15:18.750] [SPEAKER_10]: It should be, uh, uh, something that should be easy to take down.
[15:18.750 --> 15:23.090] [SPEAKER_10]: And if somebody is doing something like that, they should be banned from that particular site.
[15:23.310 --> 15:28.090] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that's happened in a couple of cases, but look what this poor person had to go through to get to that stage.
[15:28.250 --> 15:34.390] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I think also what Kyle is speaking to is, is, you know, technological, uh, solutions to this.
[15:34.750 --> 15:46.470] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, you know, don't tell me there's not a technological way to detect if you are being recorded, uh, by somebody's glasses or, you know, it's going to be contact lenses at some point.
[15:46.470 --> 15:49.150] [SPEAKER_10]: The technology is going to keep getting better and better.
[15:49.490 --> 15:53.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, there are good things we can do with the technology, but there are always bad things as well.
[15:53.850 --> 15:57.470] [SPEAKER_10]: And we need to be prepared for that and not just, you know, accept it.
[15:57.590 --> 16:06.930] [SPEAKER_10]: This is the time where the reaction dictates how this will be, um, uh, uh, integrated into our daily lives.
[16:06.930 --> 16:16.150] [SPEAKER_10]: If this is something normal, yeah, we're being filmed all the time and everything we say will be used against us or no, we believe in privacy and we're going to defend it.
[16:18.210 --> 16:19.250] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, pretty much.
[16:19.470 --> 16:20.170] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, yep.
[16:20.310 --> 16:23.330] [SPEAKER_01]: The, the countermeasures, uh, angle to this is really interesting.
[16:23.330 --> 16:30.270] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm interested to see if the clever folks out there have technical, uh, things that, uh, we can do to mitigate this sort of thing.
[16:30.430 --> 16:32.770] [SPEAKER_01]: There is an Android app out there called nearby glasses.
[16:33.070 --> 16:41.370] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it tries to scan for, I believe the Bluetooth signature of, um, the smart glasses and we'll let you know if it finds it somewhere in range.
[16:41.450 --> 16:48.890] [SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, you know, if, if you're on a crowded subway and, uh, this, this gadget tells you that someone nearby is running these glasses, what do you then do in response?
[16:48.890 --> 16:52.410] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all, all any of us can do is, uh, just try and be a little more alert.
[16:53.870 --> 16:54.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Good question though.
[16:54.990 --> 16:56.470] [SPEAKER_10]: What, what do you do at that point?
[16:56.730 --> 17:01.570] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, you know, being confrontational is not necessarily the answer unless you're being targeted yourself.
[17:02.170 --> 17:16.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but you know, knowledge is the important thing and, and being aware that, uh, somebody is, is up to something or that you are being surveilled either, uh, by an organization, a government, or just one creepy individual.
[17:16.710 --> 17:19.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, the important thing is to let people know that's happening.
[17:19.990 --> 17:20.490] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[17:20.610 --> 17:28.850] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, another, uh, interesting story here, uh, having to do with our, our future, uh, and, uh, what artificial intelligence is doing to us.
[17:29.230 --> 17:30.510] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, this is a weird story.
[17:30.610 --> 17:31.790] [SPEAKER_10]: I believe you, you found this one, Rob.
[17:32.050 --> 17:48.670] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, uh, it's, uh, in Georgia, uh, it's, uh, a warning for many parts of the United States, hastily approving data center developments, uh, without first and take note people updating their water systems to better monitor for severe upticks in usage.
[17:48.910 --> 17:49.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[17:49.530 --> 17:58.930] [SPEAKER_10]: On Friday, Politico reported that one of the country's biggest data center developments had guzzled nearly 30 million gallons of water without paying for it.
[17:59.190 --> 18:11.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Even worse, the water grab came in a time when nearby drought-stricken residents were warned to restrict their personal water consumption, and some reported suddenly decreases in water pressure.
[18:11.450 --> 18:29.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, an investigation conducted by utility officials in Georgia's Fayette County found that the Quality Technology Services Facility, it's a worst possible name they could have, Quality Technology Services had two industrial-scale water hookups that weren't being monitored.
[18:29.730 --> 18:35.710] [SPEAKER_10]: One water connection had been installed without the utility's knowledge, and I didn't know you could do that.
[18:35.830 --> 18:40.090] [SPEAKER_10]: You can just install, you can install a connection without the knowledge of the utility.
[18:40.230 --> 18:40.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[18:40.830 --> 18:46.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, the other was not linked to the company's account, and therefore wasn't being billed.
[18:46.730 --> 18:57.570] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, now, QTS eventually paid about $150,000 for the water, but there were no consequences for exceeding peak limits established by the county during the data center planning process.
[18:57.750 --> 19:01.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, frustrating residents, the county declined to find them.
[19:02.050 --> 19:03.750] [SPEAKER_10]: They declined to find them.
[19:03.870 --> 19:04.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[19:04.670 --> 19:15.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, Fayette County's Water System Director, Vanessa Tigert, told Politico that the decision was partly because the county blamed itself and didn't want to offend QTS.
[19:15.930 --> 19:20.370] [SPEAKER_10]: God forbid we offend QTS and the AI overlords.
[19:20.850 --> 19:24.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, they're our largest customer and we have to be partners, Tigert said.
[19:25.010 --> 19:26.670] [SPEAKER_10]: It's called customer service.
[19:26.810 --> 19:27.510] [SPEAKER_10]: A little, uh...
[19:30.090 --> 19:30.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[19:30.610 --> 19:31.590] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, fine.
[19:31.990 --> 19:33.610] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just detecting a bit of an attitude.
[19:33.690 --> 19:35.490] [SPEAKER_07]: Can everybody else become customer somehow?
[19:35.850 --> 19:36.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[19:37.130 --> 19:47.770] [SPEAKER_10]: So, um, uh, notably the main reason the water usage was overlooked is that the county is transitioning from outdated water meters to a smart cloud-based system that, uh, really is not very effective.
[19:48.050 --> 19:53.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it's supposed to make it easier to trace leaks leaks and other unexpected drains on the county's water system.
[19:53.890 --> 19:56.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I suppose, you know, if you cause leaks, then you'll trace them.
[19:57.130 --> 19:58.970] [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, okay, there's a win.
[19:59.710 --> 20:11.250] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Tigert also told Politico that the county failed to notice, uh, the, uh, water usage because it's understaffed, explaining that the only worker available to inspect meters is spread pretty thin.
[20:11.370 --> 20:16.630] [SPEAKER_10]: It sounds like a you problem, uh, basically turning into a, all of us problem.
[20:16.890 --> 20:40.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but, uh, this is something that's being reflected all throughout, well, the world actually, where these, um, uh, data centers, AI, uh, companies are using a huge amount of resources and, uh, either not paying for them at all, uh, paying a very minimal amount for them or paying for them and wasting them and basically making everyone else suffer,
[20:40.810 --> 20:45.610] [SPEAKER_10]: uh, just so we can have our jobs replaced by artificial intelligence.
[20:45.750 --> 20:46.890] [SPEAKER_10]: Or am I being too critical here?
[20:48.190 --> 20:49.610] [SPEAKER_01]: This story is fascinating.
[20:49.790 --> 21:06.070] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the whole, the whole idea that you could, um, imagine you or I or any company we control accidentally using and not paying for 30,000 gallons of water and, uh, or 30 million gallons of water rather during a drought and not getting in trouble for it.
[21:06.410 --> 21:08.670] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, that, that, that is fascinating to me.
[21:08.770 --> 21:13.810] [SPEAKER_01]: And this whole attitude that, um, the, the county said, well, they're our partners and we have to keep them happy.
[21:13.930 --> 21:18.610] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've been in an abusive relationship before a girl that he doesn't love you get out.
[21:19.310 --> 21:26.030] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is, uh, this is, this is amazing that, uh, this is even a thing, but it is.
[21:26.150 --> 21:38.710] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, you know, local governments have gone in on this, uh, whole let's build the data centers because AI will someday be a thing that works attitude that is fueling this stuff, um, is, is going to backfire in spectacular ways.
[21:38.870 --> 21:49.550] [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing that it was making me think of was this meme that I saw going around last summer, which said, it's so cool that cities are like, pretty, please only turn on your AC if you're actively dying and don't go below 79 degrees.
[21:49.750 --> 21:54.650] [SPEAKER_00]: While the AI nobody asked for is given half the power grid to make images of a hot girl with five boobs.
[21:56.030 --> 22:04.430] [SPEAKER_00]: And so last year, the electric grid, this year, water, is AI going to suck up all the oxygen next year?
[22:04.930 --> 22:06.110] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't give it ideas.
[22:07.990 --> 22:08.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[22:08.630 --> 22:24.850] [SPEAKER_10]: In a report on Monday, uh, some entity known as the information, uh, explained why the water supply question is a problem for the entire AI industry to solve, not just data centers, uh, which, uh, are already finding ways to reduce and reuse water, uh,
[22:25.270 --> 22:28.350] [SPEAKER_10]: citing research from a water technology company called Xylem.
[22:28.530 --> 22:40.250] [SPEAKER_10]: The information reported that the water toll of AI is far greater at semiconductor factories and the power plants electrifying chip making and computing than at the data centers themselves.
[22:40.310 --> 22:53.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Although it seems to be high just about in all of those places as a hyper scale data centers from tech giants like Meta, Google, Microsoft, Microsoft, um, perhaps increasingly rely on power for, um, uh, for cooling.
[22:53.650 --> 22:56.990] [SPEAKER_10]: The demand for water to cool down power plants will explode.
[22:57.190 --> 23:06.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, according to experts, it doesn't help that 40% of data centers and 29% of global chip fabs are built in water stressed areas over the next 25 years.
[23:06.870 --> 23:09.930] [SPEAKER_10]: AI associated water use will more than double.
[23:10.930 --> 23:15.170] [SPEAKER_10]: So we have some real problems ahead of us if we don't do something about it.
[23:15.310 --> 23:17.290] [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't see enough being done about it.
[23:19.290 --> 23:19.890] [SPEAKER_10]: No, indeed.
[23:21.250 --> 23:21.750] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[23:21.910 --> 23:29.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, so the big story, uh, which I'm sure many people have heard about is this, um, this school app known as canvas.
[23:30.390 --> 23:31.950] [SPEAKER_10]: We've all seen this in the news, right?
[23:31.970 --> 23:32.930] [SPEAKER_10]: They were, they were, they were hacked.
[23:33.010 --> 23:33.810] [SPEAKER_10]: They were hacked bad.
[23:34.270 --> 23:42.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, um, they wound up having to pay a huge ransom amount, uh, which we don't know the, the, uh, the, uh, the total of, uh, to get data back.
[23:43.370 --> 23:45.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I'm ignorant about this.
[23:45.890 --> 23:48.390] [SPEAKER_10]: I have no idea what canvas.
[23:48.630 --> 23:56.450] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I know everybody uses canvas schools everywhere use canvas hundreds and hundreds of millions of students apparently are affected by this.
[23:56.690 --> 23:59.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Does anyone have a clue as to what canvas is used for?
[24:01.090 --> 24:10.150] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, to my understanding, it is so a popular cloud-based hub for schools.
[24:10.150 --> 24:14.390] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's, I think there's grades and there's tests and there's notes.
[24:14.410 --> 24:19.610] [SPEAKER_00]: And especially as, you know, people are moving, schools are moving to more remote learning.
[24:19.770 --> 24:33.490] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw a stat that 41% of universities in this country are using in structure and just the parent company of Canada.
[24:33.690 --> 24:33.690] Right.
[24:33.890 --> 24:34.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[24:34.570 --> 24:42.410] [SPEAKER_00]: And hundreds and hundreds of K through 12 school districts across the country and around the world, actually.
[24:43.130 --> 24:49.130] [SPEAKER_00]: And you can have your class notes and you can, a learning management system.
[24:49.290 --> 24:55.210] [SPEAKER_00]: This is from the Instructure website gathers all course content, daily lessons, assignments, tests and quizzes, feedback and grading.
[24:56.010 --> 25:02.390] [SPEAKER_00]: In addition, it handles student educator communications and serves as a place for instructions with learners to meet visual, to meet virtually.
[25:02.770 --> 25:04.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Can I ask a question?
[25:05.450 --> 25:05.890] [SPEAKER_10]: Why?
[25:08.330 --> 25:13.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I mean, by, by that, I mean, uh, did we lose the ability to do this?
[25:13.730 --> 25:23.310] [SPEAKER_10]: Because, you know, when, when I went to school, um, we were able to do all that and we didn't need some company remotely someplace doing it for us or telling us how to do it.
[25:23.770 --> 25:26.230] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, teachers knew how to, how to grade papers.
[25:26.490 --> 25:29.050] [SPEAKER_10]: They knew how to, uh, uh, give instruction.
[25:29.810 --> 25:32.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Students showed up and asked what, I mean, what do we need Canvas for?
[25:32.690 --> 25:33.470] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't get it.
[25:34.470 --> 25:37.110] [SPEAKER_00]: I think part of it is remote learning.
[25:37.650 --> 25:44.030] [SPEAKER_00]: I think as, you know, schools have been pivoting to remote learning as they've needed to.
[25:44.290 --> 25:48.130] [SPEAKER_00]: And even now when kids don't get snow days anymore, cause it's just remote learning.
[25:48.750 --> 25:49.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[25:49.290 --> 26:05.970] [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, I think another aspect of this is this seems like the exact sort of thing that, uh, somebody with a hot crap tech company could, uh, go up to a school district and, you know, sell to them like, uh, you know, Springfield being sold the monorail and,
[26:05.970 --> 26:07.590] [SPEAKER_01]: uh, say, you know, this is going to change everything.
[26:07.710 --> 26:08.690] [SPEAKER_01]: This is how you do everything.
[26:08.690 --> 26:11.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, that monorail would have worked.
[26:11.510 --> 26:11.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[26:12.010 --> 26:14.350] [SPEAKER_10]: If, if, if they didn't let it fall apart.
[26:15.330 --> 26:15.490] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[26:15.710 --> 26:22.810] [SPEAKER_01]: But, but like, let's tie every single thing you do as a school through this other platform that you don't have direct control over.
[26:23.170 --> 26:25.930] [SPEAKER_01]: And let's, uh, let's have all these other schools use it too.
[26:26.030 --> 26:29.150] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's centralize everything in one company with one point of failure.
[26:29.330 --> 26:30.990] [SPEAKER_01]: And now we're seeing what happens.
[26:31.010 --> 26:31.170] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[26:31.310 --> 26:34.890] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the way you say it, it's obvious how bad it is.
[26:34.970 --> 26:46.790] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just wondering how do instructors and school districts, um, everybody not see that, you know, as, as inevitable, something bad is going to happen.
[26:46.990 --> 26:55.590] [SPEAKER_10]: You're giving up something that, you know, basically should be handled locally, not, not on a national or international level.
[26:55.710 --> 26:57.770] [SPEAKER_10]: I just, I don't see the advantage.
[26:57.770 --> 26:59.530] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm really trying hard to see it.
[27:00.230 --> 27:17.710] [SPEAKER_00]: But Emmanuel, if I had to guess, I would say you have not bought into the outsource everything, throw some money at it and let someone else take care of it mindset that is really taken over so much of the capitalist structure of this country.
[27:18.330 --> 27:24.190] [SPEAKER_00]: And if everything is, you don't need to have your own IT staff, we're going to take care of it all for you.
[27:24.370 --> 27:30.830] [SPEAKER_00]: And a monthly subscription fee is going to cost a lot less than salary and benefits for an IT staff.
[27:31.390 --> 27:43.870] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to say, Hey, this is an opportunity to save a lot of money, not thinking for a moment, the kind of security and functionality you're going to be trading away for that financial savings.
[27:44.070 --> 27:50.770] [SPEAKER_01]: And also in this day and age, when education is something that's vastly underfunded, um, teachers are paid a pittance.
[27:50.930 --> 27:58.730] [SPEAKER_10]: The job satisfaction in education is, uh, I think at a low saving all that money, wasn't I supposed to solve those problems or address those problems?
[27:58.850 --> 28:00.250] [SPEAKER_10]: It seems like it never does.
[28:00.750 --> 28:02.690] [SPEAKER_00]: So they weren't going to use it to pay teachers.
[28:02.890 --> 28:04.590] [SPEAKER_10]: So then why do it in the first place?
[28:04.750 --> 28:12.130] [SPEAKER_10]: If it's nothing's going to improve, you know, did you believe that things were going to improve when they, when they, when they cut funds, it never works that way.
[28:12.470 --> 28:13.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, you had something.
[28:13.470 --> 28:13.630] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[28:13.790 --> 28:26.910] [SPEAKER_07]: I was just thinking, um, it's partly probably a liability thing or just that the convenience of such a mixed environment of devices and, um, needs from the student body.
[28:26.910 --> 28:43.190] [SPEAKER_07]: And then of, of course, all of the other things operationally that the school is managing and maintaining for, uh, reference, uh, materials in the library or, uh, teachings, uh, systems and, and, and other things that are going on.
[28:43.250 --> 29:06.590] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the demands of people that want to check their grades from the web or from home or on a, a phone, um, I think can seem maybe desirable to hire away these services when, um, you have a kind of limited capability and you're already managing a lot of other stuff on campus.
[29:06.710 --> 29:27.510] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and you have these devices coming and going that need to be able to access some of the information that you're coordinating through the, the operational infrastructure, but a lot of it can be kind of processed and made in kind of a really convenient,
[29:27.510 --> 29:36.010] [SPEAKER_07]: uh, dashboard for people that log into it from afar, like a student or a parent checking grades or something like that.
[29:36.330 --> 29:54.310] [SPEAKER_07]: But, um, it's, I think that they're just cramming all of these features in and packaging it, like was said, um, from, uh, uh, hot educational tech company that, that gets a lot of contracts and then other schools say, okay, that's what they're using.
[29:54.730 --> 30:08.590] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's take, just handle this the way other, uh, institutions or districts have set precedent with, and it catches on and then becomes a dominant, uh, provider for the, for these kinds of services and stuff.
[30:08.670 --> 30:10.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Look, I'm, I'm not opposed to dashboards.
[30:10.570 --> 30:10.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not.
[30:11.170 --> 30:13.330] [SPEAKER_10]: But why do they all have to be connected?
[30:13.790 --> 30:17.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Why do you have to have where, where there's a compromise in the system?
[30:17.970 --> 30:19.270] [SPEAKER_10]: Everything is affected.
[30:19.590 --> 30:37.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Why not just have an isolated, um, um, uh, you know, compromise that you fix in that particular area this way, you know, hundreds of millions of students were affected by something that, uh, you know, could have easily been fixed if it was isolated to say one school district.
[30:38.550 --> 30:39.050] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[30:39.190 --> 30:55.510] [SPEAKER_07]: And that, that's the advantage if they were doing it themselves and had say they had the resources used a small contractor, some custom system, or, or like maybe the other end of the spectrum, some kind of like, uh, uh, open, easy to use, uh, customizable,
[30:55.690 --> 31:01.090] [SPEAKER_07]: uh, and, uh, maintain well-maintained project that any school could use.
[31:01.290 --> 31:01.530] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[31:01.750 --> 31:03.330] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, that would be great too.
[31:03.550 --> 31:29.010] [SPEAKER_07]: And it would be something that could be deployed, um, in that, as I was kind of illustrating complex environment at an academic situation, uh, and still, um, be insulated or, or otherwise, um, not a burden, uh, somewhat safe to use, but not a part of like these big cloud providers that in the scenario I was illustrating would be,
[31:29.470 --> 31:45.750] [SPEAKER_07]: um, this rapidly growing educational tech company that's one, once they do it in one state or one district or one, um, uh, region, they're going to deploy it in just like, uh, an assembly line, you know, they'll do the same thing.
[31:45.950 --> 32:01.910] [SPEAKER_07]: So then if something is set up wrong and it's, it's all based on that, or it's all, um, failing a certain sort of, uh, security step, then it's all then, as you've stated, like totally vulnerable.
[32:02.170 --> 32:07.490] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's just the, the hazard of trusting one entity and at such scale.
[32:07.930 --> 32:08.570] [SPEAKER_09]: Gila, go ahead.
[32:09.470 --> 32:11.250] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, so I was thinking about a couple of things.
[32:11.350 --> 32:17.530] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I was thinking about while Kyle was speaking was how many parents now need that moment to moment.
[32:17.790 --> 32:24.630] [SPEAKER_00]: Whenever, if I wake up at 2am and want to know how my kid is doing in school this way, I don't have to hop onto this system.
[32:25.410 --> 32:44.190] [SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing is, are these tech companies, are they educational tech companies or are they tech companies that are putting on an educational costume to try to use the same solutions that work for multinational organizations and try to say, well,
[32:44.310 --> 32:53.030] [SPEAKER_00]: if it works for, I don't know, meta, why wouldn't it work for Franklin Elementary School?
[32:53.610 --> 32:54.150] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[32:54.850 --> 32:56.350] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's the crux of it.
[32:56.550 --> 32:56.790] [SPEAKER_07]: Totally.
[32:56.990 --> 33:06.370] [SPEAKER_07]: Like how, how in depth and, um, who's, who is giving this a stamp of approval?
[33:06.950 --> 33:11.530] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, yeah, it may look like it works, but is it well audited?
[33:11.650 --> 33:17.310] [SPEAKER_07]: Is it well understood how it's functioning, um, and working in, in different scenarios?
[33:17.910 --> 33:35.150] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and if it's just kind of the bargain choice, you know, maybe there's a couple red flags in that being the choice, uh, and there should be, um, maybe a greater, a little bit more pressure from the people that are using the stuff, e.g., you know, students,
[33:35.570 --> 33:44.590] [SPEAKER_07]: faculty, uh, uh, parent-teacher organizations, they have a say in how this stuff's procured and, and because they have to use it.
[33:44.710 --> 33:53.470] [SPEAKER_07]: And if it, you know, if something breaks or if something's, um, uh, incorrect and flawed, they're, they're at the mercy of it.
[33:53.590 --> 34:02.550] [SPEAKER_07]: And this is people trying to matriculate, trying to have a, you know, work on their academic career and, and you're disrupting that ostensibly.
[34:02.590 --> 34:06.890] [SPEAKER_10]: I just don't get how, you know, you wake up at two in the morning wanting to know what grade your kid got.
[34:07.350 --> 34:08.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Wake up your kid and ask him.
[34:08.630 --> 34:16.790] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, that's a lot easier than, than, uh, expecting some, some global, uh, uh, corporate entity to be able to tell you and get it right and care.
[34:16.990 --> 34:17.830] [SPEAKER_10]: They don't care.
[34:17.950 --> 34:19.190] [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that's a guarantee.
[34:19.570 --> 34:24.510] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, going to school is, um, uh, it's, it's a community thing.
[34:24.630 --> 34:25.410] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a local thing.
[34:25.470 --> 34:26.690] [SPEAKER_10]: It should always be a local thing.
[34:26.870 --> 34:30.290] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm reading the, the description here, what canvas, uh, uh, does.
[34:30.490 --> 34:36.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it's where schools post assignments, messages, grades, class updates, exam instructions.
[34:36.650 --> 34:41.990] [SPEAKER_10]: When did you stop being able to do all that, you know, one-on-one in the classroom?
[34:42.130 --> 34:43.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Why even have classrooms anymore?
[34:43.890 --> 34:46.810] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, why not just let this corporation take care of everything?
[34:47.010 --> 34:48.110] [SPEAKER_10]: What do you need teachers?
[34:48.370 --> 34:49.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you need buildings?
[34:49.190 --> 35:04.250] [SPEAKER_10]: It's, you know, it's really pretty pathetic that this, uh, unless, unless this whole thing is part of a class that we're learning that doing something on this level is bad, it's wrong, and we should never do that again.
[35:04.410 --> 35:06.050] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe that is what this is all about.
[35:06.210 --> 35:09.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe that's the lesson that we are all supposed to be learning right now.
[35:09.490 --> 35:10.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Well done, canvas.
[35:10.710 --> 35:11.170] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[35:11.270 --> 35:18.410] [SPEAKER_10]: You taught us something valuable and everybody cancel your damn canvas accounts and go back to teaching kids face-to-face.
[35:19.490 --> 35:20.730] [SPEAKER_10]: Canterbury University.
[35:20.790 --> 35:22.610] [SPEAKER_10]: I believe they're in New Zealand.
[35:22.910 --> 35:25.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, they were able to avoid all of this.
[35:26.030 --> 35:27.490] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, yeah.
[35:28.350 --> 35:41.690] [SPEAKER_10]: The students at Canterbury University were unaffected because their institutions opted for an open-source platform instead, in effect, keeping their data in-house rather than relying on a large international company to host their platform.
[35:42.110 --> 35:43.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Imagine that.
[35:43.210 --> 35:43.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[35:44.130 --> 35:50.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, this, um, uh, student Asher, uh, Wilson Goldman has two weeks left to finish his master's degree.
[35:50.730 --> 35:58.450] [SPEAKER_10]: He's a student at Victoria University of Wellington, uh, doing a master's of public management part-time while he works full-time.
[35:58.650 --> 36:04.190] [SPEAKER_10]: But that all came to a halt on Friday morning when education platforms worldwide shut down.
[36:04.510 --> 36:05.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Worldwide.
[36:05.250 --> 36:05.790] [SPEAKER_10]: Think about that.
[36:05.970 --> 36:13.810] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Victoria uses Nuku as a digital learning platform, which is driven by canvas, which is run by Instructure.
[36:14.550 --> 36:17.430] [SPEAKER_10]: And all these crazy words they, they make up.
[36:17.570 --> 36:22.830] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and that was targeted in the hack by a hacker group of known as shiny hunters.
[36:23.370 --> 36:29.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, at least one education technology expert considers it the largest education security breach in history.
[36:29.870 --> 36:31.550] [SPEAKER_10]: Don't think it won't be on the test.
[36:31.710 --> 36:44.890] [SPEAKER_10]: It will be a canvas powered platform shut down around the world, including Nuku, uh, which means that Wilson Goldman and millions of other students had, have had to put their semesters on pause, many of which were about to wrap up.
[36:45.070 --> 36:50.210] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Wilson Goldman says the earliest he expects to have Nuku back is next week.
[36:50.390 --> 36:55.770] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but that's after an assignment is due, which has to be submitted via Nuku.
[36:56.070 --> 36:56.850] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh boy.
[36:57.010 --> 37:01.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, other students have drafts of their papers or notes stored on the down platform.
[37:01.270 --> 37:03.350] [SPEAKER_10]: Why didn't you write it on your own damn laptop?
[37:03.350 --> 37:05.850] [SPEAKER_10]: Why are you storing it in the cloud somewhere?
[37:06.670 --> 37:12.690] [SPEAKER_10]: And staff emails from the university of Auckland, associate dean of teaching and learning Andrew Luxton Riley.
[37:12.850 --> 37:14.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Does everybody there have hyphenated names?
[37:14.370 --> 37:14.870] [SPEAKER_10]: I think they do.
[37:15.370 --> 37:18.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, it says they, they have no estimate for recovery time.
[37:18.930 --> 37:19.650] [SPEAKER_10]: It could be hours.
[37:19.770 --> 37:20.930] [SPEAKER_10]: It could potentially be days.
[37:21.570 --> 37:25.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Instructure was able to get most of canvas up and running again on Saturday.
[37:25.670 --> 37:28.390] [SPEAKER_10]: Wilson Goldman says it's not the educator's fault.
[37:28.510 --> 37:35.850] [SPEAKER_10]: He's more worried about their well-being at the moment, but that of the decision makers who signed up to a multinational provider like Instructure.
[37:36.090 --> 37:36.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[37:36.450 --> 37:37.130] [SPEAKER_10]: Amen on that.
[37:37.490 --> 37:41.070] [SPEAKER_10]: Instructure has been hacked before last week by the same hackers.
[37:41.550 --> 37:41.890] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[37:42.130 --> 37:42.850] [SPEAKER_10]: How about that?
[37:42.990 --> 37:48.470] [SPEAKER_10]: It says rather than contact them, Instructure did some security patches before the latest attack.
[37:48.650 --> 37:51.950] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and that's offensive too, to the people breaking in.
[37:52.050 --> 37:57.890] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Instructure said last week, it does not believe passwords, financial records, or government IDs were part of the breach.
[37:58.570 --> 37:59.990] [SPEAKER_10]: Whoa, that's a relief, I guess.
[38:00.290 --> 38:08.690] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Wilson Goldman says lecturers have been compelled to use software developed by an international company, which couldn't care less about Victoria University.
[38:08.990 --> 38:17.290] [SPEAKER_10]: When, uh, things go wrong, uh, he thinks we'll be lower on the priority list than flagship universities, such as Harvard and Stanford, which were also affected.
[38:17.530 --> 38:18.270] [SPEAKER_10]: And you know what?
[38:18.410 --> 38:19.850] [SPEAKER_10]: Kindergartens were affected as well.
[38:20.610 --> 38:25.150] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know what kind of assignments you're giving to kindergarten kids that have to be in the cloud, but whatever.
[38:25.390 --> 38:29.230] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Instructure bills itself as the most visited education website in the world.
[38:29.370 --> 38:29.470] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[38:29.550 --> 38:37.670] [SPEAKER_10]: It's being visited by hackers all over, all over the planet because you're, you're a wide open target and, uh, easy to, uh, to compromise.
[38:37.670 --> 38:42.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Apparently, uh, they claim more than 6 million concurrent users by users.
[38:43.090 --> 38:48.990] [SPEAKER_10]: I believe they mean, uh, um, institutions because they have hundreds of millions of students.
[38:49.230 --> 38:53.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, many of these users were involved in the last week's international data breach.
[38:53.330 --> 39:09.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, shiny hunters posted a pay or leak demand threatening to leak information from certain universities, unless those universities paid a sum, uh, the information in question, including log included login credentials used by students and staff to access the learning platform messages,
[39:10.190 --> 39:13.750] [SPEAKER_10]: materials stored on the platform, other academic data.
[39:14.310 --> 39:16.150] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, yeah.
[39:16.430 --> 39:24.730] [SPEAKER_10]: So, um, that's, um, that's an indication of how serious it is to those institutions that were victimized by this.
[39:25.070 --> 39:38.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but, uh, again, if, if, if you use something that is, um, uh, not a service like that, uh, the odds of you, um, uh, being victimized, well, they, they, it's, it's much lower.
[39:38.430 --> 39:45.370] [SPEAKER_10]: Open-source approach basically means the data is kept in New Zealand in this particular case under New Zealand law.
[39:45.610 --> 39:53.910] [SPEAKER_10]: And since each database is isolated, a breach in one area can't spill over into another customers have direct control of their data.
[39:54.430 --> 40:02.290] [SPEAKER_10]: That's, um, for people who use or institutions that use, um, a server or a service known as Moodle M O O D L E.
[40:02.510 --> 40:06.290] [SPEAKER_10]: It's an open-source program, meaning anyone can download the code and run the operation.
[40:06.610 --> 40:16.550] [SPEAKER_10]: If you don't have the expertise or time to do that, you can hire a company like a New Zealand's catalyst to do the technical work, but the server is still yours to customize.
[40:17.070 --> 40:29.270] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that is the key here that, um, it's, it's locally run and each server has its own policies, its own staff running it, its own, uh, rules.
[40:29.710 --> 40:34.230] [SPEAKER_10]: And you're not subjected to something like this common sense.
[40:34.350 --> 40:39.710] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm surprised that so many of these institutions don't seem to, um, uh, to exhibit that.
[40:39.870 --> 40:57.290] [SPEAKER_10]: Now the question of, um, these shiny hunter people, uh, first of all, when, when you break into a system and you demand payment to, um, uh, release data or, um, uh, give access back, that is not what hacking is.
[40:57.350 --> 41:00.170] [SPEAKER_10]: Hacking is figuring out, you know, the, the weaknesses, absolutely.
[41:00.650 --> 41:03.670] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, uh, you know, teaching a lesson like this, sure.
[41:03.830 --> 41:06.330] [SPEAKER_10]: That's, uh, that, that can be considered an element of hacking.
[41:06.630 --> 41:12.470] [SPEAKER_10]: But the greed of wanting money in exchange, that's, that's where you leave me behind.
[41:12.730 --> 41:22.330] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, this is something that, um, uh, is, is, is not a, uh, uh, uh, something that is, um, um, worthy.
[41:22.690 --> 41:32.850] [SPEAKER_07]: It's something that is, um, worth, uh, yeah, it's not really a noble, uh, uh, uh, uh, no, no, that's honorable way.
[41:33.070 --> 41:33.230] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[41:33.450 --> 41:33.970] [SPEAKER_07]: Not honorable.
[41:34.170 --> 41:35.110] [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's to behave.
[41:35.430 --> 41:36.230] [SPEAKER_10]: But it's important.
[41:36.350 --> 41:38.010] [SPEAKER_07]: You're lording something and, and yeah.
[41:38.010 --> 41:39.630] [SPEAKER_10]: It's important that we learn this lesson.
[41:39.630 --> 41:42.030] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think it's an important lesson to teach.
[41:42.230 --> 41:47.810] [SPEAKER_10]: And I, you know, I wish shiny hunters has simply taught the lesson and said, okay, don't do that again.
[41:48.050 --> 41:48.930] [SPEAKER_10]: Here's your data back.
[41:49.070 --> 41:49.990] [SPEAKER_10]: But here's the thing.
[41:50.250 --> 41:57.330] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we're, we're not finding out how much they were paid to give back the, uh, 3.5 terabytes of data.
[41:58.570 --> 42:02.490] [SPEAKER_10]: This 3.5 terabytes of data, they didn't have another copy of it.
[42:02.630 --> 42:08.090] [SPEAKER_10]: They needed shiny hunters to give them back the data, uh, you know, and they've given them back the data.
[42:08.190 --> 42:08.350] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[42:08.450 --> 42:11.130] [SPEAKER_10]: So what makes you think that data is now secure?
[42:11.590 --> 42:14.450] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, they, they, they proved that they deleted it.
[42:14.590 --> 42:15.370] [SPEAKER_10]: How does that look?
[42:15.550 --> 42:17.270] [SPEAKER_10]: How do you prove you deleted something?
[42:17.530 --> 42:21.210] [SPEAKER_10]: I, I never understood that they could still have a copy someplace.
[42:21.210 --> 42:22.830] [SPEAKER_10]: You will never know.
[42:23.290 --> 42:26.310] [SPEAKER_10]: Once, once the data is compromised, it's compromised.
[42:26.590 --> 42:28.430] [SPEAKER_10]: You have to change your passwords.
[42:28.550 --> 42:36.770] [SPEAKER_10]: You have to assume that everything that has been said in that data is, is there for the public to see at any time, the time of their choosing.
[42:37.150 --> 42:41.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, you can never trust, uh, people who hold something for ransom.
[42:41.970 --> 42:47.430] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, if, in the case of people being held for ransom, yeah, you get the person back and that's great.
[42:47.790 --> 42:54.590] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but with data, you can make copies and it can go anywhere and it can be used against you.
[42:54.730 --> 42:57.870] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's great if you get the data back, but you should have had the data to begin with.
[42:58.050 --> 43:01.130] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't get how you don't even keep a copy for yourself.
[43:01.470 --> 43:03.930] [SPEAKER_10]: There were just so many lessons to learn here.
[43:04.410 --> 43:20.530] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, I, I just wonder how the students are processing this, you know, the people in, in, in, uh, middle school, high school, they're seeing their institutions fall apart because of these super poor data practices, you know, just abandoning common sense.
[43:21.110 --> 43:23.830] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, these are the people that are teaching you.
[43:25.070 --> 43:30.330] [SPEAKER_10]: I, I, I think, uh, there needs to be more teaching going on and not for the students.
[43:31.230 --> 43:31.750] [SPEAKER_10]: Rob.
[43:32.210 --> 43:40.550] [SPEAKER_01]: My, my favorite aspect of all this is the quote unquote resolution because yes, the, the criminals doing this did get paid off.
[43:40.850 --> 43:42.410] [SPEAKER_01]: They, they won their blackmail money.
[43:42.690 --> 43:49.570] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, uh, in a statement from Instructure, um, where they're talking about, uh, how sorry they are that this happened and trying to reassure their customers.
[43:49.870 --> 43:55.330] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, they post on their site, Instructure reached an agreement with the unauthorized actor involved in this incident.
[43:55.470 --> 43:57.970] [SPEAKER_01]: As part of that agreement, the data was returned to us.
[43:58.090 --> 44:02.390] [SPEAKER_01]: We received digital confirmation of data destruction, parentheses, shred logs.
[44:02.650 --> 44:04.230] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll get, we'll get back to that.
[44:04.390 --> 44:09.930] [SPEAKER_01]: We have been informed that no Instructure customers will be extorted as a result of this incident publicly or otherwise.
[44:09.930 --> 44:13.490] [SPEAKER_01]: And this agreement covers all impacted Instructure customers.
[44:13.490 --> 44:17.950] [SPEAKER_01]: And there is no need for individual customers to attempt to engage with the unauthorized actor.
[44:18.350 --> 44:29.410] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically they're saying, yes, we paid off the professional blackmailers and we have their word on the honor system that they're not going to use their professional blackmail material to do more professional blackmailing.
[44:29.630 --> 44:32.070] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, shred logs, that's meaningless.
[44:32.070 --> 44:40.030] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you could show someone a screenshot of you saying, you know, DEL, whatever file that doesn't tell you if they've got another copy of it on another drive somewhere.
[44:40.550 --> 44:52.650] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're a professional blackmailer and you've got this zip file that just won you an untold zillion dollars of money from, uh, from, from Instructure here, you know, are you just going to delete that?
[44:52.750 --> 44:55.570] [SPEAKER_01]: Or are you just going to keep that in a drawer in case you want another zillion dollars someday?
[44:55.930 --> 45:01.970] [SPEAKER_01]: It's fascinating to think about this all being down to the honor system of, well, they said they won't crime on us anymore.
[45:02.570 --> 45:06.030] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, again, you know, this company shows no common sense whatsoever.
[45:06.050 --> 45:12.150] [SPEAKER_10]: So why would they exhibit it here when it comes to trusting people who, who took your data and held it hostage?
[45:12.450 --> 45:15.150] [SPEAKER_10]: But you know, that's just, okay.
[45:15.250 --> 45:17.290] [SPEAKER_10]: I can sort of see now they're hopeless.
[45:17.290 --> 45:19.350] [SPEAKER_10]: You can just get them to do anything you want.
[45:19.570 --> 45:26.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, what, what, uh, uh, shiny hunters did, like I said before, it needed to be done to, to prove a point.
[45:26.710 --> 45:28.370] [SPEAKER_10]: That wasn't the reason they were doing it.
[45:28.470 --> 45:37.190] [SPEAKER_10]: Unfortunately, I wish it was because this is such a valuable lesson to be taught that this is a bad idea and this is why it's a bad idea.
[45:37.430 --> 45:41.250] [SPEAKER_10]: And I guess, you know, they feel that their efforts should be compensated in one form or another.
[45:41.430 --> 46:01.730] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not going to get involved in that, but when something like this exists, when, when everybody is, is convinced to abandon your, your local institutions and trust some faceless corporation someplace, I think it's on everybody with a brain to figure out how to compromise that and to display that,
[46:01.830 --> 46:04.470] [SPEAKER_10]: to show that and say, this is a bad idea.
[46:04.670 --> 46:06.130] [SPEAKER_10]: This is why it's a bad idea.
[46:07.330 --> 46:10.550] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, I just don't see that lesson being learned.
[46:10.690 --> 46:23.010] [SPEAKER_10]: I see these institutions going right back to what they were doing and it's going to happen again, whether it's shiny hunters or somebody else, you know, they're, they're still making the same mistakes and it's not just schools.
[46:23.010 --> 46:25.370] [SPEAKER_10]: It's almost everything you can imagine.
[46:25.790 --> 46:40.970] [SPEAKER_10]: We have to take a good look at, at, you know, the changes we're making with technology and make smart changes, not stupid changes over and over again, where we just trust these, um, these, these monoliths to do everything for us.
[46:41.090 --> 46:56.190] [SPEAKER_10]: What's the matter with us doing the work ourselves, with us deciding the policies ourselves, with, dare I say it, things being different from one place to another, you know, this school district does something this way, this one does it a different way.
[46:56.370 --> 47:08.930] [SPEAKER_10]: This one teaches this class, this one does not, you know, they, basically there are different interpretations of, of, of history, of, uh, um, of language, all kinds of subject material.
[47:09.570 --> 47:11.770] [SPEAKER_10]: That is what makes us unique.
[47:11.910 --> 47:14.090] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's what makes us learn from each other.
[47:14.430 --> 47:25.010] [SPEAKER_10]: But when everything is, is, is, uh, just homogenized and, uh, given to, to, uh, this, this instructor entity, whatever it is, I mean, who are these people?
[47:25.090 --> 47:26.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Does anybody know who they are?
[47:26.550 --> 47:27.550] [SPEAKER_10]: What, what are their qualifications?
[47:27.730 --> 47:28.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Do they have any?
[47:29.350 --> 47:34.830] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, this is what's deciding what, what our children learn, what, what people in college are learning.
[47:35.270 --> 47:36.070] [SPEAKER_10]: It's nuts.
[47:36.290 --> 47:37.050] [SPEAKER_10]: It's madness.
[47:37.630 --> 47:40.290] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, for that reason, I'm glad it happened.
[47:40.490 --> 47:41.090] [SPEAKER_10]: I really am.
[47:41.210 --> 47:41.930] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad this happened.
[47:42.390 --> 47:45.710] [SPEAKER_10]: Give them a black eye, show them that this is not the way things should be.
[47:46.110 --> 47:50.430] [SPEAKER_10]: And any school district that, that runs back to them, they deserve what they get.
[47:50.470 --> 47:52.350] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you're not learning the lesson.
[47:52.710 --> 47:55.850] [SPEAKER_10]: You should have to repeat whatever year you're in.
[47:56.150 --> 47:57.230] [SPEAKER_10]: That's how it works.
[47:58.650 --> 48:02.210] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, shiny hunters is just one organized crime group doing this sort of thing.
[48:02.290 --> 48:03.130] [SPEAKER_01]: There are countless others.
[48:03.350 --> 48:16.530] [SPEAKER_01]: And now all those other ones know that, uh, here in structure is, uh, you know, has a history of paying the money and, you know, so there, this, this company, this, uh, this product is going to be on all of their radars now.
[48:16.750 --> 48:20.290] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, we should have the right to know how much money was paid.
[48:20.610 --> 48:35.350] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I, I think anybody who uses this particular service, and I'm putting that in air quotes, um, they deserve to know how much of their money was used, uh, to, to, uh, address this mistake, this massive mistake.
[48:35.630 --> 48:49.310] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, I think any, any, um, institution should have the, um, um, the option to cancel whatever contract they are in based on, I guess, what is new information to them, not new information.
[48:49.310 --> 49:03.270] [SPEAKER_10]: If you've been listening to this radio show, uh, speaking of which, uh, you won't be able to listen to this radio show very much longer because we only have a minute left, uh, but you can write to this radio show, oth@2600.com, oth@2600.com.
[49:03.430 --> 49:11.770] [SPEAKER_10]: You can also, uh, hear us continue the conversation and take phone calls where we'll be talking about the Hope Conference and all kinds of other hacker issues.
[49:12.250 --> 49:15.610] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, that'll be on YouTube at 8 PM Eastern time.
[49:16.050 --> 49:17.230] [SPEAKER_10]: It's about 10 minutes from now.
[49:17.390 --> 49:27.090] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, just go to Channel2600, Channel2600 on YouTube, or click on the link that's on the 2600.com webpage.
[49:27.590 --> 49:35.410] [SPEAKER_10]: Also, um, if, uh, you can support WBAI where this radio show has aired since 1988, uh, that would be great.
[49:35.590 --> 49:42.010] [SPEAKER_10]: Keep us on the air, keep us going, keep us, uh, saying all kinds of things, uh, without fear of censorship.
[49:42.350 --> 49:50.110] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, go to WBAI.org or buddy.wbai.org or give2wbai.org.
[49:50.650 --> 49:52.430] [SPEAKER_10]: Pledge whatever you can afford.
[49:52.670 --> 49:58.670] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, we look forward to seeing you again next week on these airwaves here at 99.5 FM.
[49:58.810 --> 50:05.910] [SPEAKER_10]: And please continue to listen to WBAI as you'll find all kinds of interesting programming throughout the course of the week.
[50:06.650 --> 50:08.110] [SPEAKER_10]: See you at eight o'clock on YouTube.
[50:08.290 --> 50:09.570] [SPEAKER_10]: See you next week here on WBAI.
[50:09.710 --> 50:09.870] [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
[54:40.160 --> 54:45.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And welcome everybody to... What is this?
[54:45.540 --> 54:47.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, Off The Hook Overtime on YouTube.
[54:47.140 --> 54:47.840] [SPEAKER_10]: That's what it is.
[54:48.760 --> 54:49.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel here.
[54:49.800 --> 54:51.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, you met it over there.
[54:51.800 --> 54:52.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[54:52.420 --> 54:57.000] [SPEAKER_10]: And out in Signal-land, we have Gila and Rob.
[54:57.480 --> 54:58.840] [SPEAKER_10]: We are indeed here.
[54:59.040 --> 54:59.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[54:59.700 --> 55:00.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Are we, in fact, on YouTube?
[55:01.360 --> 55:02.560] [SPEAKER_10]: We are on YouTube.
[55:02.960 --> 55:03.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, then.
[55:03.640 --> 55:05.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Do we hear us on YouTube?
[55:05.520 --> 55:06.100] [SPEAKER_01]: Is the question.
[55:06.400 --> 55:09.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, how would we be on YouTube if you didn't hear us on YouTube?
[55:09.200 --> 55:10.220] [SPEAKER_10]: That's how you know we're on YouTube.
[55:10.220 --> 55:13.920] [SPEAKER_01]: Our video started, but our sound had not started until just now.
[55:14.360 --> 55:16.080] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't have video on YouTube.
[55:16.300 --> 55:16.940] [SPEAKER_10]: We just have a picture.
[55:17.600 --> 55:18.460] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the picture was up.
[55:18.620 --> 55:24.620] [SPEAKER_00]: The other interesting thing is that I find that the delay is longer on Rob's computer than on my computer.
[55:25.640 --> 55:27.300] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is weird, because they're right next to each other.
[55:28.160 --> 55:31.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, maybe one computer is better than the other computer?
[55:33.860 --> 55:34.220] Possibly.
[55:34.220 --> 55:35.400] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you mute us, though?
[55:35.560 --> 55:36.500] [SPEAKER_00]: Because this is driving me crazy.
[55:36.640 --> 55:36.920] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[55:37.120 --> 55:37.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[55:37.660 --> 55:38.240] [SPEAKER_10]: You are muted.
[55:38.920 --> 55:40.800] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know how you're going to tell us to unmute you, though.
[55:41.100 --> 55:42.320] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't think that through.
[55:43.660 --> 55:47.740] [SPEAKER_10]: But maybe you could call us or send a postcard or something.
[55:48.220 --> 55:50.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Or just wave frantically, because we can see you.
[55:51.180 --> 55:52.920] [SPEAKER_10]: And Kyle, you're making a sour face.
[55:52.920 --> 55:53.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Why is that?
[55:53.640 --> 55:55.100] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I just hope it's not our configuration.
[55:55.360 --> 55:56.700] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll run some more tests, though.
[55:56.700 --> 55:58.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you think it's something that we did on our end?
[55:58.820 --> 56:05.140] [SPEAKER_07]: No, nothing's changed since the last time we were reconfiguring.
[56:05.320 --> 56:07.940] [SPEAKER_07]: But I will take a look when we have some free time.
[56:08.160 --> 56:09.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you think the listeners might be responsible for this?
[56:09.860 --> 56:11.600] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know, but I think we're set to go.
[56:11.600 --> 56:12.220] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I think no.
[56:12.320 --> 56:12.720] [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no.
[56:12.800 --> 56:15.300] [SPEAKER_07]: We're just, you know, always improving things.
[56:15.600 --> 56:16.000] [SPEAKER_10]: They're waving at us.
[56:16.140 --> 56:17.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, I'm going to put them back up.
[56:17.340 --> 56:17.400] [SPEAKER_10]: They're waving.
[56:17.400 --> 56:18.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Guys, you're back up.
[56:18.880 --> 56:19.660] [SPEAKER_00]: We are, indeed.
[56:20.400 --> 56:29.800] [SPEAKER_00]: What I meant was asking Rob to mute the YouTube stream so that we weren't hearing us live and with delay, because that was driving me absolutely bad.
[56:29.800 --> 56:30.700] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why would you want that?
[56:31.320 --> 56:31.940] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't.
[56:32.140 --> 56:32.780] [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's awful.
[56:33.720 --> 56:38.840] [SPEAKER_10]: So anyway, I hope we didn't defend Canvas or whatever they're called too much.
[56:39.360 --> 56:41.580] [SPEAKER_10]: But in a way, I kind of hope we did.
[56:41.600 --> 56:44.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Because they really, they need an ass kicking here.
[56:44.780 --> 56:46.260] [SPEAKER_10]: I just cannot believe that.
[56:46.400 --> 56:48.520] [SPEAKER_10]: I can't believe that kind of a thing exists.
[56:48.660 --> 56:52.160] [SPEAKER_10]: And I can't believe they just ran it so badly that this would happen.
[56:52.400 --> 56:56.600] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just, I get impatient with stupidity of that nature.
[56:58.400 --> 57:02.180] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there stupidity of another nature with which you are not impatient?
[57:02.320 --> 57:05.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, yeah, it's all a question of degree.
[57:05.780 --> 57:10.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Like, you know, if you screw something up, yeah, okay, you screw something up, you mess up your own life.
[57:10.660 --> 57:17.540] [SPEAKER_10]: But when you're messing up hundreds of millions of people just trying to learn in school, you know, there's no excuse for that.
[57:17.700 --> 57:22.680] [SPEAKER_10]: You were entrusted to get something right, something which I don't think ever should have been done in the first place.
[57:22.680 --> 57:23.560] [SPEAKER_10]: This proves it.
[57:23.960 --> 57:26.540] [SPEAKER_10]: And I don't see them doing anything differently.
[57:26.980 --> 57:28.900] [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to see what they're going to do differently.
[57:29.580 --> 57:36.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And how maybe they're going to encourage, they're never going to encourage schools to run things locally, because there goes their business model.
[57:37.540 --> 57:40.280] [SPEAKER_10]: So yeah, we open the door for this kind of thing.
[57:40.580 --> 57:42.700] [SPEAKER_10]: You can't, you can't be surprised when this happens.
[57:46.020 --> 57:47.560] [SPEAKER_00]: So why is that funny?
[57:47.920 --> 57:49.660] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not I'm laughing at something else.
[57:49.780 --> 57:51.720] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to tell you what that is.
[57:53.840 --> 57:59.320] [SPEAKER_00]: So I would like to begin by saying greetings to the 40 odd people who are with us right now.
[57:59.840 --> 58:07.500] [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing that made me laugh was when at Sarah B4513 said, I went straight to my professor friends and told on Eric.
[58:08.620 --> 58:09.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And told what?
[58:10.020 --> 58:10.700] [SPEAKER_00]: Told on you.
[58:11.140 --> 58:11.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that's great.
[58:11.940 --> 58:12.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[58:12.480 --> 58:16.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, And that was why I giggled.
[58:16.740 --> 58:23.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe, maybe we leave the chat to the side and we read the chat only once every couple of minutes or something.
[58:23.420 --> 58:24.880] [SPEAKER_10]: What is burning in your neighborhood?
[58:25.020 --> 58:27.280] [SPEAKER_10]: By the way, I just hear nothing but fire engines going by.
[58:28.860 --> 58:31.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, things, things are really heating up here in Queens.
[58:31.720 --> 58:34.060] [SPEAKER_10]: For the whole hour, there have been fire engines going by.
[58:34.980 --> 58:38.160] [SPEAKER_01]: There, there may actually be something of significance going on nearby.
[58:38.400 --> 58:40.260] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's not much we can do about that.
[58:40.560 --> 58:42.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, make sure your building isn't on fire.
[58:42.600 --> 58:43.680] [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that's one thing you could do.
[58:44.560 --> 58:46.140] [SPEAKER_01]: So, so far as we know, it's not.
[58:46.320 --> 58:48.800] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, our smoke detector hasn't gone off.
[58:48.980 --> 58:50.460] [SPEAKER_00]: We don't smell any smoke.
[58:51.880 --> 58:58.080] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it also though, we do live a couple blocks away from a hospital, which came in very handy a few months ago.
[58:58.660 --> 59:00.800] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so it could be, hear that?
[59:00.960 --> 59:01.520] [SPEAKER_00]: Ambulances too?
[59:01.820 --> 59:02.780] [SPEAKER_10]: That's not an ambulance.
[59:03.040 --> 59:03.860] [SPEAKER_10]: That's a fire truck.
[59:03.980 --> 59:04.740] [SPEAKER_10]: I know fire trucks.
[59:05.400 --> 59:06.720] [SPEAKER_10]: I grew up in Queens too.
[59:09.480 --> 59:09.840] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[59:10.040 --> 59:12.780] [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder, I wonder if we could find something, uh, hang on, hang on, hang on.
[59:13.060 --> 59:15.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Stick your head out the window and yell, what's going on out there?
[59:15.800 --> 59:17.240] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, that's, that's what you do in Queens.
[59:18.800 --> 59:22.180] [SPEAKER_01]: Every time I stick my head out the window, a pigeon, uh, disgraces me.
[59:22.320 --> 59:28.500] [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to do that, but, um, hang on, let me check in on the subreddit.
[59:29.480 --> 59:31.840] [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, there's a subreddit for your block?
[59:32.640 --> 59:36.600] [SPEAKER_00]: Not for our block, but for our little area, our neighborhood.
[59:36.840 --> 59:37.040] [SPEAKER_09]: Really?
[59:37.180 --> 59:37.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[59:39.220 --> 59:43.640] [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, in, in any case, there, there is exciting stuff going on all over the world.
[59:43.640 --> 59:48.100] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, I want to, I want to hear about some of it, uh, from our listeners.
[59:48.520 --> 59:48.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[59:49.140 --> 59:49.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[59:49.540 --> 59:55.140] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, uh, we're opening it up also because a lot of people have been emailing us with, uh, questions about hope.
[59:55.260 --> 01:00:01.740] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, we just have so little time on the radio that we figured this is a good clearing house for information.
[01:00:01.740 --> 01:00:04.680] [SPEAKER_10]: If people need to, uh, uh, to know anything.
[01:00:04.680 --> 01:00:12.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we are processing a huge amount of, um, of, uh, talk submissions, uh, that came in before the end of April.
[01:00:13.080 --> 01:00:23.240] [SPEAKER_10]: There are more that are coming in now, but we're not processing them just yet because we're still dealing with the, the, uh, the many dozens that we have, uh, before April 30th.
[01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:26.200] [SPEAKER_10]: And we will be announcing some of those talks very soon.
[01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:28.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, there are all kinds of other things too.
[01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.300] [SPEAKER_10]: We will be announcing how, uh, you can be a vendor.
[01:00:31.740 --> 01:00:39.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, there are workshops, there are villages, uh, uh, Kyle and I were at the, um, uh, the site, uh, last week.
[01:00:39.240 --> 01:00:42.880] [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, a bunch of us were at the site last week and it's, it's just, it really is amazing.
[01:00:43.020 --> 01:00:49.680] [SPEAKER_10]: It really is something to go there to the New Yorker and just, um, uh, see the possibilities of what we can do with the place.
[01:00:50.080 --> 01:00:55.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and I, I, I really hope that, um, everything works out, that people have fun there.
[01:00:55.500 --> 01:01:05.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, I know we're hearing from so many more people, uh, that want to come back to hope who haven't been to hope in a while because, well, you know, nothing against Queens, but apparently it's, it's hard to get to for a lot of people.
[01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:07.700] [SPEAKER_10]: And this couldn't be easier to get to.
[01:01:07.820 --> 01:01:09.080] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a block away from Penn station.
[01:01:09.080 --> 01:01:12.220] [SPEAKER_10]: It's right in the middle of Manhattan, steps away from time square.
[01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:14.600] [SPEAKER_10]: There's all kinds of things you can do all the time.
[01:01:15.080 --> 01:01:25.080] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and it's, it's kind of, um, it's kind of a return to what hope started as, uh, which is basically the same neighborhood, just a different hotel that has since been torn down.
[01:01:25.200 --> 01:01:25.960] [SPEAKER_10]: This one has not.
[01:01:30.160 --> 01:01:39.660] [SPEAKER_10]: They have, uh, Nikola Tesla's two rooms, uh, with plaques and, uh, you can actually, um, uh, stay in those rooms.
[01:01:39.860 --> 01:01:41.940] [SPEAKER_10]: And in fact, we're going to have those rooms for the conference.
[01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:46.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Not sure who's going to stay in them yet, but, uh, we're going to do something like that.
[01:01:46.160 --> 01:01:50.620] [SPEAKER_10]: We have all kinds of, uh, fun activities planned and we're open to all sorts of ideas.
[01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:55.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, all of the information so far on the conference can be found at hope.net.
[01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:57.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we are adding more material.
[01:01:57.500 --> 01:02:02.800] [SPEAKER_10]: We're going to add more, uh, things about the neighborhood, about the hotel, and of course, about the schedule as well.
[01:02:03.020 --> 01:02:10.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we do need people to spread the word because, um, uh, you know, I, people want to go to this thing.
[01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:12.120] [SPEAKER_10]: We, we hear that all the time.
[01:02:12.520 --> 01:02:17.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, our ticket sales need to be improved if we're going to keep doing this, if we're going to do it again.
[01:02:17.740 --> 01:02:19.380] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, going to Manhattan is not cheap.
[01:02:19.380 --> 01:02:25.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, you know, there's a reason we went to Queens because Queens was, was much more affordable.
[01:02:25.560 --> 01:02:27.480] [SPEAKER_10]: This involves a significant investment.
[01:02:27.860 --> 01:02:33.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, in order for that to pay off, we have to have a significant number of people show up.
[01:02:33.560 --> 01:02:39.660] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, if that doesn't happen, well, it's a, it's a great way to go out, I guess, but, um, we don't want that to be the case.
[01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:52.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, so please, uh, if you're, if you're, um, uh, holding back, uh, thinking that, uh, you'll buy tickets at the last minute, we are going to be imposing a limit, which hopefully we reach that limit.
[01:02:52.740 --> 01:03:01.860] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, if we don't reach that limit, I can't imagine us not reaching that limit, but if we don't reach that limit, um, then it means that, uh, we won't be doing well.
[01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:07.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, we really, there's no reason to do that again because we'll just be taking a bath.
[01:03:07.640 --> 01:03:15.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, so, um, please spread the, spread the word, uh, come up with ideas, email us, let us know your, your, uh, thoughts, opinions.
[01:03:15.640 --> 01:03:18.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, this is a great event.
[01:03:18.040 --> 01:03:21.680] [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to be so much fun, uh, summer in New York city.
[01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:24.240] [SPEAKER_10]: It's, uh, it's, it's like nothing else.
[01:03:24.460 --> 01:03:31.720] [SPEAKER_10]: And, um, uh, if it's anything at all, like the previous conferences, um, it's going to be so worth it.
[01:03:32.060 --> 01:03:32.580] [SPEAKER_10]: It really will be.
[01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:33.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Kyle, did you have something?
[01:03:34.160 --> 01:03:55.340] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, just, uh, we want to keep the momentum up, uh, that, um, eventuality of, um, you know, not reaching as our goals for this time around could just put things in the things, um, on hiatus or slow them down in ways that I just don't think matches the amount of enthusiasm and the momentum and the sort of need,
[01:03:55.460 --> 01:04:04.960] [SPEAKER_07]: I think, to, uh, express ourselves, to, to hear what others are saying at this particular time with, with, um, our area of interest and our affinity group.
[01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:17.020] [SPEAKER_07]: So I would just, uh, encourage people if you want to help, um, buy a ticket, uh, another, uh, close second way to help is spread the word, uh, really, really help us.
[01:04:17.180 --> 01:04:28.460] [SPEAKER_07]: There are so many problems with, um, the sort of current state of, um, of social media and media fragmentation in general.
[01:04:28.460 --> 01:04:39.000] [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, we're, we're not really, um, uh, the sort of large flashy event anyway, that, that would be taking out big, uh, billboards and stuff either.
[01:04:39.220 --> 01:04:45.100] [SPEAKER_07]: So we're just going to do more of what we always do anyway, which is, uh, a lot of grassroots, a lot of word of mouth.
[01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:47.600] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's something that everybody can do.
[01:04:47.840 --> 01:05:13.240] [SPEAKER_07]: So if you want to help, those two ways are really phenomenal ways to support us and share a story, um, get people excited and, um, think of ways that it might help you to be around like-minded or, uh, people from other, uh, fields of interests and expertise that you could have in your proximity and,
[01:05:13.240 --> 01:05:32.940] [SPEAKER_07]: uh, collaborate with, um, uh, challenge, maybe, uh, um, uh, talk about and, and, and edify one another with, you know, different ideas and, and, and, and vantage points for, from, for issues or for particular projects or, or, um, capabilities and, and,
[01:05:33.120 --> 01:05:53.040] [SPEAKER_07]: um, innovations, all of that stuff matters and your participation in the ways I've described and others are so crucial and, and never, um, something that we take for granted or that we, um, want to see, um, diminish, uh, this is a moment to, to stand for something.
[01:05:53.380 --> 01:06:01.340] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, this is, this, um, gathering, getting everyone in a, in a room and, and, uh, presenting and, and sharing ideas.
[01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:03.160] [SPEAKER_07]: That's what we're committed to.
[01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:07.140] [SPEAKER_07]: That's, that's, uh, what, what we like to provide.
[01:06:07.420 --> 01:06:10.140] [SPEAKER_07]: And the magic is what you bring to it.
[01:06:10.240 --> 01:06:12.580] [SPEAKER_10]: We are so lucky to be able to do this.
[01:06:12.580 --> 01:06:29.320] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I, I feel the same way, uh, when we do a radio show on, on WBAI, we are so lucky to be able to transmit from midtown Manhattan, you know, to, to, uh, uh, three or four different states, uh, you know, from, from New York city, uh, and, uh, of course around the world on the Internet,
[01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:44.800] [SPEAKER_10]: but just, you know, to have that, uh, to be able to, uh, have, uh, an audience of radio listeners, which is very unique from, uh, Internet listeners as, as, uh, Internet listeners are great as well, but when you're a radio listener, nobody knows you're a radio listener.
[01:06:45.020 --> 01:06:46.620] [SPEAKER_10]: It's completely passive.
[01:06:46.860 --> 01:06:47.480] [SPEAKER_10]: It's anonymous.
[01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:49.100] [SPEAKER_10]: You're not being tracked.
[01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:53.420] [SPEAKER_10]: You actually can turn on a radio in your car, in your house, whatever.
[01:06:53.980 --> 01:06:59.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, uh, it's a, it's a, a tie into something that's been around for over a hundred years.
[01:06:59.380 --> 01:07:03.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and I think that is, um, that's, that's amazing just to be able to do that.
[01:07:03.360 --> 01:07:12.120] [SPEAKER_10]: When you consider how many radio stations there are in New York city, uh, how many people are on the radio at one particular time, it's a, it's a relatively small amount of people.
[01:07:12.500 --> 01:07:16.440] [SPEAKER_10]: So it's a real privilege to be able to do that and to be part of that community.
[01:07:17.020 --> 01:07:23.280] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, you as a listener, you're also a part of that community and you might hear people saying, yeah, radio is dead.
[01:07:23.560 --> 01:07:29.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, uh, if radio is dead, what's it being replaced with is, is, uh, Spotify really something to be proud of?
[01:07:29.740 --> 01:07:41.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that really, uh, you know, better than something involving interaction, talking to somebody on, uh, a call in show or hearing something said live from a studio.
[01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:46.780] [SPEAKER_10]: I think that there's a certain magic there that I hope that we, uh, we hang on to.
[01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:48.440] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't let that, uh, disappear.
[01:07:48.660 --> 01:07:51.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Like so many other things are just thoughtlessly disappearing.
[01:07:51.580 --> 01:08:00.680] [SPEAKER_10]: It's, um, um, it's, it's one of those priceless things, but also, you know, the conference itself, having that in the middle of, uh, midtown New York city.
[01:08:00.680 --> 01:08:09.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, when we had our first conference back in 1994, that came after a few of us had been to some European conferences.
[01:08:09.260 --> 01:08:11.740] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm thinking of a galactic hacker party.
[01:08:11.740 --> 01:08:15.340] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm thinking of hacking at the end of the universe, both in the Netherlands.
[01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.360] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, they were amazing conferences.
[01:08:18.700 --> 01:08:23.360] [SPEAKER_10]: There were no conferences like that in the United States at all.
[01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:29.340] [SPEAKER_10]: There were, there were conferences like summer con and the, uh, the first couple of def cons were very, very small.
[01:08:29.340 --> 01:08:32.140] [SPEAKER_10]: We're talking about, you know, 75 people at most.
[01:08:32.660 --> 01:08:38.880] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, they, they had their own unique charm, but the conferences in Europe, they were huge.
[01:08:39.020 --> 01:08:40.920] [SPEAKER_10]: They had a thousand people or more.
[01:08:41.320 --> 01:08:49.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh, you just realized how big the hacker culture actually was and how it was, it was starting to unite.
[01:08:49.240 --> 01:08:55.660] [SPEAKER_10]: You were, we were meeting people from the chaos computer club in Germany and people from all different European countries.
[01:08:55.660 --> 01:08:58.220] [SPEAKER_10]: And, and, and some people from Asia were showing up.
[01:08:58.220 --> 01:08:59.480] [SPEAKER_10]: It was amazing.
[01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:07.880] [SPEAKER_10]: But the one thing everybody said, everybody from the States, everybody from Europe, everybody that we met, couldn't do this in the United States.
[01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:08.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Wouldn't work.
[01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:10.580] [SPEAKER_10]: There are all these reasons why it would fail.
[01:09:10.780 --> 01:09:13.800] [SPEAKER_10]: All these reasons why it would be, uh, kept from happening.
[01:09:15.460 --> 01:09:22.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, the thing about the hacker culture is that, um, we, um, we don't like to be told we can't do things.
[01:09:22.900 --> 01:09:24.960] [SPEAKER_10]: And we don't like to be told about rules.
[01:09:25.220 --> 01:09:27.160] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't like to be told things are impossible.
[01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:31.420] [SPEAKER_10]: So when people say that, it's like waving a red flag.
[01:09:31.580 --> 01:09:35.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Basically it's, it's, it's telling us, okay, you know, you're, you're being challenged here.
[01:09:35.580 --> 01:09:40.260] [SPEAKER_10]: And so a bunch of us set out to figure out a way to do it anyway.
[01:09:40.880 --> 01:09:54.660] [SPEAKER_10]: And not only did we do it anyway, we were able to find a place in the middle of New York city, you know, the, the, the, the biggest city, the most, uh, energetic city, the most expensive city.
[01:09:54.940 --> 01:10:00.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And yet we were able to find a place, the hotel Pennsylvania, where we could pull this off.
[01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:07.900] [SPEAKER_10]: And we knew about this place through our connections and broadcasting where certain conferences were being held there.
[01:10:08.320 --> 01:10:11.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and we, we figured why not give it a shot?
[01:10:11.820 --> 01:10:16.620] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's how hope got started in 1994 at hotel Pennsylvania.
[01:10:16.740 --> 01:10:20.900] [SPEAKER_10]: And it, you know, it lasted until hotel Pennsylvania was demolished.
[01:10:21.020 --> 01:10:24.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, actually until COVID, which led to the destruction of the hotel.
[01:10:24.320 --> 01:10:27.700] [SPEAKER_10]: And then, yeah, you know, you can't find another hotel Pennsylvania.
[01:10:27.700 --> 01:10:29.140] [SPEAKER_10]: That's a one-time thing.
[01:10:29.300 --> 01:10:32.120] [SPEAKER_10]: So that's why we wound up in Queens at St. John's university.
[01:10:32.860 --> 01:10:35.400] [SPEAKER_10]: And, and we were lucky to have that.
[01:10:35.400 --> 01:10:36.460] [SPEAKER_10]: It was a different environment.
[01:10:36.780 --> 01:10:38.900] [SPEAKER_10]: We knew we could never go back to Manhattan again.
[01:10:39.080 --> 01:10:40.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Couldn't possibly afford it.
[01:10:40.620 --> 01:10:41.720] [SPEAKER_10]: It was impossible.
[01:10:42.480 --> 01:10:43.620] [SPEAKER_10]: It was impossible.
[01:10:44.020 --> 01:10:45.000] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, guess what?
[01:10:45.100 --> 01:10:46.520] [SPEAKER_10]: They said it was impossible again.
[01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:47.740] [SPEAKER_10]: So we did it again.
[01:10:47.740 --> 01:10:49.160] [SPEAKER_10]: We found another place.
[01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.740] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think this place is going to work out just great.
[01:10:55.060 --> 01:10:55.900] [SPEAKER_10]: I really do.
[01:10:57.080 --> 01:10:58.480] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm excited about it.
[01:10:58.580 --> 01:11:04.300] [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, anyone who's been to multiple hopes knows even when they were all at the hotel, Pennsylvania, no two were the same.
[01:11:04.300 --> 01:11:16.520] [SPEAKER_01]: There was always just a bit of an evolution, a bit of a, you know, progress in, in vibe and, you know, changes in the event, things added, things tried, things that didn't work out, left behind new things, uh, tried out.
[01:11:16.660 --> 01:11:26.060] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's always been this, this process of continuing to grow and learn and, you know, any, anything's at its best when it's still open to evolving.
[01:11:26.060 --> 01:11:26.460] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[01:11:26.580 --> 01:11:29.160] [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to have the exact same hope we had 20 years ago.
[01:11:29.540 --> 01:11:34.520] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but, uh, I, I am really interested to see what hope looks like in 2026.
[01:11:35.060 --> 01:11:40.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we always like to, you know, uh, mix it up a little bit and give people things that they're not expecting.
[01:11:40.340 --> 01:11:44.920] [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, just with, with the name itself, you know, the first hope was just hackers on planet earth.
[01:11:45.100 --> 01:11:46.600] [SPEAKER_10]: And that, you know, it was a one-off.
[01:11:46.700 --> 01:11:48.780] [SPEAKER_10]: We didn't think, uh, we were going to do something again.
[01:11:48.780 --> 01:11:51.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and then people said, Hey, why don't you do it again?
[01:11:51.580 --> 01:11:57.220] [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, beyond hope, it was, uh, the logical name for the one that happened three years after that.
[01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:09.480] [SPEAKER_10]: And then another three years passed year 2000, why two case we figured why not H2K for hope 2000, uh, we had an acronym within an acronym, you know, that's, that's something people weren't expecting.
[01:12:09.660 --> 01:12:14.200] [SPEAKER_10]: And then, uh, we, we went, uh, by annual after that every two years.
[01:12:14.540 --> 01:12:17.900] [SPEAKER_10]: So what's a logical name for the one after H2K?
[01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:21.640] [SPEAKER_10]: H2K two, that was 2002.
[01:12:22.040 --> 01:12:27.120] [SPEAKER_10]: And of course, everyone expected, uh, 2004 to be H2K four or maybe H2K three.
[01:12:27.700 --> 01:12:30.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, but no, of course it was, uh, the fifth hope.
[01:12:31.200 --> 01:12:44.160] [SPEAKER_10]: So, and then, then we had the fun of, um, of, uh, when the hotel was about to be torn down the first time, uh, having the last hope, uh, and then, uh, explaining that by the last hope, we didn't mean it was going to be the last hope.
[01:12:44.280 --> 01:12:45.780] [SPEAKER_10]: We just meant it was the most recent hope.
[01:12:45.780 --> 01:12:48.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Hope, and then the next hope was called the next hope.
[01:12:49.160 --> 01:12:55.620] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's when people realized you cannot depend on us for a naming convention because we're just going to mess with your mind.
[01:12:56.100 --> 01:12:59.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, the most recent hope was, um, uh, hope 16.
[01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:02.840] [SPEAKER_10]: And so, of course, the one after that is hope 26.
[01:13:04.160 --> 01:13:06.380] [SPEAKER_10]: So, so don't try and predict what we're going to do next.
[01:13:06.540 --> 01:13:07.340] [SPEAKER_10]: We don't know ourselves.
[01:13:07.940 --> 01:13:09.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, yeah.
[01:13:09.500 --> 01:13:15.300] [SPEAKER_10]: So any, any questions or statements about hope, please feel free to call us when we open up the phone line.
[01:13:15.380 --> 01:13:17.020] [SPEAKER_10]: And just, uh, just a moment, Kyle, you had something?
[01:13:17.020 --> 01:13:31.800] [SPEAKER_07]: I just add that, like, the adaptability of it, a lot of it is about, you know, what kind of interest and what, um, different types of projects and, and, um, things we're emphasizing.
[01:13:32.020 --> 01:13:35.060] [SPEAKER_07]: And of course, the constraints with, uh, venues and different things.
[01:13:35.060 --> 01:13:56.240] [SPEAKER_07]: So I just want to encourage people, uh, share with us, you know, sign up, uh, for the volunteer form, um, uh, tell people or, or, uh, let us know about, uh, uh, a vending, uh, uh, idea you have, uh, for a table or a workshop idea or, you know, other things like that.
[01:13:56.380 --> 01:14:18.880] [SPEAKER_07]: Like there is so much, um, things, so much capability that I've seen, uh, come from a lot of the talented people listening and our readers and, um, the wider hacker world out there and New York and of course, uh, uh, America and, um, and, um, anybody else that joins us.
[01:14:19.000 --> 01:14:25.920] [SPEAKER_07]: I, I just, I want people to understand that it, we really can do all kinds of stuff, anything.
[01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:37.500] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it, it really is, um, about, I mean, if you can imagine, you know, uh, a, a thing we would, we would be able to do, it's, it's certainly possible.
[01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:46.580] [SPEAKER_07]: It just, it's the, um, the idea translating into, um, action is the hard part.
[01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:57.580] [SPEAKER_07]: And I, I, um, I, I think that anybody who's been a part of something like this, like we, we don't want to be just like, uh, we want to keep it exciting.
[01:14:57.700 --> 01:14:58.780] [SPEAKER_07]: We don't want to be a trade show.
[01:14:58.780 --> 01:15:04.300] [SPEAKER_07]: We don't want to be, uh, you know, um, uh, not trying things.
[01:15:04.360 --> 01:15:19.800] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course the, the peril is some things don't work as Rob said, and we redirect, we, we, we just want to focus on the basics and we might, um, you know, do, do a couple things differently just to make things easy in this being a new space.
[01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:26.240] [SPEAKER_07]: But, um, once we're familiar, I think we'll, um, we'll be able to get some routine to it.
[01:15:26.860 --> 01:15:34.360] [SPEAKER_07]: And, um, yeah, that's all I wanted to say is that we really can put anything together for something like this, but it does take scale.
[01:15:34.620 --> 01:15:47.960] [SPEAKER_07]: Like we definitely need an audience to be able to, um, you know, meet the, meet the, the numbers and, and, and requirements for, for doing it the way we're doing it in Manhattan.
[01:15:48.020 --> 01:16:07.640] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think that, um, the trade-off is so many different people can join us and we can, we can, um, you know, have fun with the space, have fun with, um, the neighborhood, uh, places that are around, um, have all kinds of, uh, activities and get togethers and,
[01:16:07.660 --> 01:16:11.560] [SPEAKER_07]: and meets going on, um, excursions, whatever that is.
[01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:18.380] [SPEAKER_07]: There's, there's been that kind of stuff in the past, you know, tours of, of New York, tours of different things that the people organize around hope.
[01:16:18.380 --> 01:16:22.040] [SPEAKER_07]: So, um, we're, we're totally open to it, but it takes action.
[01:16:22.180 --> 01:16:26.200] [SPEAKER_07]: It takes, um, self-direction and, um, coordination.
[01:16:26.200 --> 01:16:40.720] [SPEAKER_07]: So we really need people to kind of, um, get their energy and momentum together and, and really, um, let's all sort of push for those things that we want to see and move in that direction.
[01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:44.240] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there, there are so many things that we can be doing this summer.
[01:16:44.240 --> 01:16:52.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, you know, if you have a, a space in Manhattan, a Nova space in Manhattan that wants to have some kind of party or something like that, uh, we can, we can definitely be a part of that.
[01:16:52.540 --> 01:16:53.320] [SPEAKER_10]: We can promote that.
[01:16:53.680 --> 01:16:56.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we can do all kinds of things at the hotel.
[01:16:56.480 --> 01:16:58.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, Kyle was mentioning, uh, volunteers.
[01:16:58.900 --> 01:16:59.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, we need volunteers.
[01:17:00.080 --> 01:17:01.740] [SPEAKER_10]: This doesn't happen without volunteers.
[01:17:01.980 --> 01:17:06.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, and, uh, there's a volunteer tab on the hope.net webpage.
[01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:09.740] [SPEAKER_10]: There's a forum, a very short forum to fill out there.
[01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:13.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, we need all kinds of help, both at the conference and leading up to the conference.
[01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:20.940] [SPEAKER_10]: We certainly can use people with social media skills because we're not that good at that.
[01:17:21.180 --> 01:17:22.780] [SPEAKER_10]: We're not that good at promoting ourselves.
[01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:24.300] [SPEAKER_10]: You might have noticed that.
[01:17:24.400 --> 01:17:25.660] [SPEAKER_10]: We're very bad at that.
[01:17:25.820 --> 01:17:29.900] [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, all it takes is one person who's good at TikTok or something like that.
[01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:33.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And that changes everything.
[01:17:33.240 --> 01:17:37.520] [SPEAKER_10]: We have a lot more people being a part of things as well.
[01:17:38.460 --> 01:17:42.180] [SPEAKER_10]: There are so many ways of getting involved.
[01:17:42.420 --> 01:17:51.340] [SPEAKER_10]: The hotel itself, we have discounted rooms that are at prices that you do not see in New York City, in Manhattan.
[01:17:51.340 --> 01:17:53.920] [SPEAKER_10]: You don't even see it in Queens and Brooklyn anymore.
[01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:56.540] [SPEAKER_10]: So it's really good to have that.
[01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:58.480] [SPEAKER_10]: The hotel is very supportive.
[01:17:58.780 --> 01:18:01.900] [SPEAKER_10]: They're very eager to have this conference happen there.
[01:18:03.180 --> 01:18:12.340] [SPEAKER_10]: And there are... if the rooms appear to be sold out, check again the day after because what they do is they add rooms after they sell out.
[01:18:12.420 --> 01:18:14.260] [SPEAKER_10]: And they have been selling out on a daily basis.
[01:18:15.120 --> 01:18:21.020] [SPEAKER_10]: So go to the link that is on the Hope.net webpage under the venue section.
[01:18:21.520 --> 01:18:24.340] [SPEAKER_10]: And if you can get a room, then get a room.
[01:18:24.460 --> 01:18:29.140] [SPEAKER_10]: And you'll have that at least waiting for you.
[01:18:29.140 --> 01:18:31.200] [SPEAKER_10]: You won't get billed until August.
[01:18:31.380 --> 01:18:32.420] [SPEAKER_10]: So don't worry about that.
[01:18:33.940 --> 01:18:40.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And yeah, any other questions or thoughts or things that you have ideas to get involved with?
[01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:41.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Anything is possible.
[01:18:41.740 --> 01:18:42.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Anything is possible.
[01:18:42.340 --> 01:18:47.000] [SPEAKER_10]: And we hope that this conference really is the beginning of something brand new.
[01:18:47.460 --> 01:18:48.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, Gila, go ahead.
[01:18:48.300 --> 01:18:50.040] [SPEAKER_00]: A couple of questions to convey.
[01:18:50.820 --> 01:18:56.660] [SPEAKER_00]: Someone asked if there's any information, a sneak peek about what kind of talks we could look forward to maybe.
[01:18:56.660 --> 01:18:59.380] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, hang tight, information coming soon.
[01:19:00.280 --> 01:19:01.900] [SPEAKER_00]: But awesome talks.
[01:19:02.380 --> 01:19:10.780] [SPEAKER_10]: People have really outdone themselves as far as putting together interesting discussions, subjects, things of expertise.
[01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:14.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And to me, that's the most inspirational thing.
[01:19:14.120 --> 01:19:24.360] [SPEAKER_10]: When we see a couple of hundred talk submissions coming in of people that really, really, really want to speak at Hope and know what they're talking about.
[01:19:24.360 --> 01:19:30.600] [SPEAKER_10]: And we don't have requirements where you have to have a degree or a certification or something like that.
[01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:34.340] [SPEAKER_10]: We do get a lot of people that have very impressive credentials.
[01:19:34.820 --> 01:19:39.600] [SPEAKER_10]: But we also have people who are in high school giving talks, which, you know, and they're good talks, too.
[01:19:39.820 --> 01:19:46.500] [SPEAKER_10]: And they'll be up against a college professor or a CEO or even a government official.
[01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:49.260] [SPEAKER_10]: There are all kinds of people that show up for this thing.
[01:19:49.260 --> 01:19:52.980] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, the reputation precedes it.
[01:19:53.180 --> 01:19:55.100] [SPEAKER_10]: So you realize how much it means to people.
[01:19:55.220 --> 01:19:57.520] [SPEAKER_10]: And that just makes you want to try all the harder.
[01:19:57.740 --> 01:20:00.600] [SPEAKER_10]: So I really hope people realize that.
[01:20:00.780 --> 01:20:02.780] [SPEAKER_10]: And again, you know, we didn't mention this either.
[01:20:03.360 --> 01:20:12.620] [SPEAKER_10]: If you cannot, absolutely cannot make it to New York City in August, we do have our virtual tickets, which also go a long way towards supporting the event.
[01:20:12.780 --> 01:20:15.300] [SPEAKER_10]: So please check out that option as well.
[01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:18.100] [SPEAKER_10]: No matter where you are in the world, you can be a part of Hope.
[01:20:19.380 --> 01:20:23.380] [SPEAKER_00]: Question number two, is the Hope app going to be back?
[01:20:23.840 --> 01:20:24.980] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't see why not.
[01:20:26.380 --> 01:20:27.600] [SPEAKER_10]: It's a little early.
[01:20:27.820 --> 01:20:28.740] [SPEAKER_10]: It's still May.
[01:20:28.940 --> 01:20:32.600] [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, I mean, we had that last time, right?
[01:20:32.740 --> 01:20:35.620] [SPEAKER_10]: So if we had it last time, we will have it this time.
[01:20:36.020 --> 01:20:38.400] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we've had a recurring volunteer.
[01:20:38.400 --> 01:20:50.660] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think when we start talking schedule, and we'll maybe get a couple more requests for that, we tend to either get in touch or they get in touch with us.
[01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:57.140] [SPEAKER_07]: But there's a lot of attributes of Hope that just sort of assemble like that as we put together the different elements.
[01:20:57.140 --> 01:21:06.160] [SPEAKER_07]: But we'll definitely make sure we reach out and get people working on that or give them whatever they need when we get to that point.
[01:21:06.160 --> 01:21:12.960] [SPEAKER_10]: The important thing to point out is that we have a lot of challenges this year.
[01:21:13.220 --> 01:21:16.400] [SPEAKER_10]: We lost Greg, tragically.
[01:21:16.840 --> 01:21:19.680] [SPEAKER_10]: And Greg did so much for the conference.
[01:21:19.680 --> 01:21:25.220] [SPEAKER_10]: And we have to basically come up with three or four people that Greg was.
[01:21:26.780 --> 01:21:30.680] [SPEAKER_10]: And I know we can do it, but it's difficult.
[01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:31.180] [SPEAKER_10]: It's hard.
[01:21:31.720 --> 01:21:36.280] [SPEAKER_10]: We also found the new venue fairly late in the game.
[01:21:36.440 --> 01:21:40.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Usually, we're promoting the conference in the later part of the year before.
[01:21:40.580 --> 01:21:45.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And we didn't have this lined up until, was it March of this year?
[01:21:45.420 --> 01:21:48.880] [SPEAKER_10]: So, we have less time to work with, more to do.
[01:21:49.700 --> 01:21:52.940] [SPEAKER_10]: And our first time in a new venue is always a challenge.
[01:21:53.120 --> 01:22:00.560] [SPEAKER_10]: So, that is why it sounds, and it's true, that we're floundering a bit because we have so much being thrown at us at once.
[01:22:00.940 --> 01:22:03.500] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, in addition, we have other things that we do.
[01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:04.880] [SPEAKER_10]: We work on the magazine.
[01:22:05.080 --> 01:22:06.020] [SPEAKER_10]: We work on the radio show.
[01:22:06.120 --> 01:22:07.280] [SPEAKER_10]: We have lives.
[01:22:07.380 --> 01:22:08.460] [SPEAKER_10]: We have all kinds of other things going on.
[01:22:08.460 --> 01:22:09.500] [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[01:22:09.540 --> 01:22:10.300] [SPEAKER_07]: We have lives?
[01:22:10.320 --> 01:22:11.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Some of us might, yeah.
[01:22:12.260 --> 01:22:13.980] [SPEAKER_10]: We're experimenting with having lives.
[01:22:13.980 --> 01:22:16.200] [SPEAKER_07]: Can you elaborate on that?
[01:22:16.200 --> 01:22:16.800] [SPEAKER_10]: No, I can't.
[01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:17.760] [SPEAKER_10]: I haven't had one yet.
[01:22:17.920 --> 01:22:21.180] [SPEAKER_07]: Are you sure you're talking about the same people?
[01:22:21.740 --> 01:22:22.460] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[01:22:22.580 --> 01:22:23.620] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't even...
[01:22:23.620 --> 01:22:25.060] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know people at all.
[01:22:26.180 --> 01:22:26.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, Gila, more.
[01:22:27.140 --> 01:22:27.860] [SPEAKER_00]: Two more things.
[01:22:28.820 --> 01:22:31.960] [SPEAKER_00]: One is from at Swoop2, who says, saw this was live.
[01:22:32.060 --> 01:22:32.840] [SPEAKER_00]: Been incredibly busy.
[01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:34.700] [SPEAKER_00]: Just wanted to thank everyone for all of their hard work.
[01:22:34.900 --> 01:22:37.220] [SPEAKER_00]: A hard track for the Midwest with current gas situation.
[01:22:37.440 --> 01:22:38.620] [SPEAKER_00]: I will check out the virtual ticket.
[01:22:39.060 --> 01:22:39.500] [SPEAKER_00]: Thumbs up.
[01:22:39.500 --> 01:22:44.260] [SPEAKER_00]: And a question from me, which is, are we going to take phone calls?
[01:22:44.480 --> 01:22:45.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we are.
[01:22:45.700 --> 01:22:48.040] [SPEAKER_10]: As soon as you stop giving us questions.
[01:22:48.280 --> 01:22:48.680] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I'm ready.
[01:22:50.360 --> 01:22:51.040] [SPEAKER_07]: Ouch, man.
[01:22:51.040 --> 01:22:52.120] [SPEAKER_07]: We welcome the questions.
[01:22:52.280 --> 01:22:53.280] [SPEAKER_07]: No, the questions are cool.
[01:22:53.920 --> 01:22:56.160] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, we're ready to roll with those.
[01:22:56.280 --> 01:22:57.820] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll get the line connected.
[01:22:57.880 --> 01:22:59.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Who wants to give out the phone number?
[01:23:00.060 --> 01:23:06.100] [SPEAKER_10]: And let me point out that when you say the last digit, and it's correct, the phone line magically becomes active.
[01:23:07.320 --> 01:23:09.160] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I think we can both do this.
[01:23:09.300 --> 01:23:16.940] [SPEAKER_01]: The phone number you want to call is United States phone number 1-802-321-4225.
[01:23:19.080 --> 01:23:20.220] [SPEAKER_10]: And hang on.
[01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:22.080] [SPEAKER_10]: The damn button didn't work.
[01:23:22.180 --> 01:23:22.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:23:23.260 --> 01:23:25.420] [SPEAKER_10]: No, it worked, and then it undid itself.
[01:23:25.660 --> 01:23:26.700] [SPEAKER_10]: And now it's working.
[01:23:26.860 --> 01:23:27.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:23:27.760 --> 01:23:29.120] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[01:23:29.300 --> 01:23:30.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, that is our phone number.
[01:23:31.140 --> 01:23:34.320] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:23:35.040 --> 01:23:37.820] [SPEAKER_10]: And hopefully we hear the phone ring fairly soon.
[01:23:38.700 --> 01:23:39.820] [SPEAKER_10]: And yeah.
[01:23:41.800 --> 01:23:42.360] [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
[01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:51.540] [SPEAKER_01]: And while we're waiting for that phone to ring, I want to thank everybody who helped WBAI reach their April fundraising goal last month.
[01:23:51.720 --> 01:23:55.560] [SPEAKER_01]: The announcement was made that the fundraising goal last month was met.
[01:23:55.700 --> 01:23:58.940] [SPEAKER_01]: But of course, the fundraising campaign is ongoing.
[01:23:58.940 --> 01:24:02.000] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't stop receiving bills just because it's not April anymore.
[01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:06.460] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we, like, blew past the goal by, like, 10% or something, which is just insane.
[01:24:06.660 --> 01:24:07.060] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[01:24:07.140 --> 01:24:07.440] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[01:24:07.440 --> 01:24:07.620] [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[01:24:07.740 --> 01:24:08.400] [SPEAKER_10]: It's people power.
[01:24:08.600 --> 01:24:09.160] [SPEAKER_10]: People power.
[01:24:09.220 --> 01:24:11.120] [SPEAKER_10]: It always helps in the end.
[01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:13.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, Rebel, we have you on the phone line.
[01:24:13.480 --> 01:24:17.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, let me just ask you a question before you start with your soliloquy here.
[01:24:18.680 --> 01:24:21.780] [SPEAKER_10]: You called us last week on the radio station, correct?
[01:24:23.060 --> 01:24:23.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[01:24:23.620 --> 01:24:25.080] [SPEAKER_10]: And then I called...
[01:24:25.080 --> 01:24:29.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody called again, which was probably AI, that invoices me.
[01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:30.000] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:24:30.100 --> 01:24:33.840] [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the reason I believe you is that our caller ID was not working for some reason.
[01:24:34.420 --> 01:24:37.820] [SPEAKER_10]: So we're going to take you at your word because we've known you for 100 years.
[01:24:38.180 --> 01:24:40.840] [SPEAKER_10]: So what's on your mind this week?
[01:24:41.640 --> 01:24:43.340] [SPEAKER_11]: Ah, let's see.
[01:24:44.840 --> 01:24:46.100] [SPEAKER_11]: I agree with you.
[01:24:46.260 --> 01:24:52.080] [SPEAKER_11]: You were talking on the radio about people having their own computers and not dealing with the...
[01:24:52.080 --> 01:25:01.980] [SPEAKER_11]: That's why I don't like cloud computing and, you know, companies that, you know, who are dealing with apps and, you know, depending on, you know, other companies for their data sources.
[01:25:02.840 --> 01:25:11.160] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I, you know, you should go back to the, well, I guess they could call it days of mainframes and, or main computers, right?
[01:25:11.280 --> 01:25:16.500] [SPEAKER_11]: That's what you could call it these days, where computers are at, you know, on your location.
[01:25:16.840 --> 01:25:19.360] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the place where I worked at, messenger service.
[01:25:19.480 --> 01:25:21.160] [SPEAKER_11]: They had a computer on their location.
[01:25:21.440 --> 01:25:28.460] [SPEAKER_11]: It was like a, like a PC server type of a thing with six or seven, you know, PCs connected to it.
[01:25:28.460 --> 01:25:36.260] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you know, it's, it's okay to have something in the cloud or something remote, but yeah, have something local as well in case that goes away.
[01:25:38.080 --> 01:25:38.520] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:41.320] [SPEAKER_11]: And, um, let's think.
[01:25:41.900 --> 01:25:46.780] [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and, and like telephone systems are in the car, like, people don't have PBXs anymore.
[01:25:47.040 --> 01:25:49.800] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I mean, Centrix was kind of a cloud thing, wasn't it?
[01:25:50.540 --> 01:25:58.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Um, well, no, I mean, we had a Centrix system at our, at the radio station and, uh, it was pretty much, yeah, you know, okay.
[01:25:58.040 --> 01:26:04.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, uh, the, the hardware was in the central office, so I guess that could be considered the cloud, but there was a lot of hardware locally as well.
[01:26:04.940 --> 01:26:05.580] [SPEAKER_10]: You needed both.
[01:26:07.200 --> 01:26:07.560] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh.
[01:26:08.240 --> 01:26:09.260] [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I didn't know that.
[01:26:09.420 --> 01:26:09.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:26:09.780 --> 01:26:11.000] [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't know that you needed both.
[01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:15.060] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you needed the instruments, you needed, uh, uh, the circuitry to be working.
[01:26:15.460 --> 01:26:17.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, there was a lot of mechanical clicking going on.
[01:26:18.900 --> 01:26:20.380] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I mean, you say you needed both.
[01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:25.980] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, the central office, the switching element was at the central office.
[01:26:26.240 --> 01:26:26.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[01:26:27.240 --> 01:26:27.600] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:29.780] [SPEAKER_11]: So, like, they have, like, voice over IP phones.
[01:26:29.780 --> 01:26:34.700] [SPEAKER_10]: I guess, you know, Rebel, a good way to parallel it, look at a payphone.
[01:26:35.860 --> 01:26:42.580] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, a payphone run by the phone company, its intelligence could be said to be in the cloud because it was in the central office.
[01:26:42.640 --> 01:26:46.000] [SPEAKER_10]: The thing telling you to deposit a quarter was not in the phone itself.
[01:26:46.540 --> 01:26:51.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Cocots, on the other hand, customer-owned cone-operated telephones, the intelligence was in the phone.
[01:26:51.460 --> 01:26:52.980] [SPEAKER_10]: So it kind of went in the other direction.
[01:26:52.980 --> 01:26:58.360] [SPEAKER_10]: It went from having something in the cloud to not being in the cloud with the newer technology.
[01:26:59.320 --> 01:27:02.380] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I mean, I guess you could describe the cloud.
[01:27:02.500 --> 01:27:04.900] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it was kind of not cloud-like.
[01:27:04.900 --> 01:27:14.860] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know it today where another company is running, you know, serving you, where this is like the phone company is still serving that payphone.
[01:27:15.080 --> 01:27:15.720] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, same company.
[01:27:15.940 --> 01:27:18.300] [SPEAKER_11]: The phone company is still serving WBAI or whatever.
[01:27:19.340 --> 01:27:20.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, Centrix was the same thing.
[01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:22.280] [SPEAKER_10]: That was the phone company as well.
[01:27:22.480 --> 01:27:23.280] [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah.
[01:27:23.620 --> 01:27:24.080] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah.
[01:27:24.300 --> 01:27:25.380] [SPEAKER_11]: So, it's not the cloud.
[01:27:25.380 --> 01:27:26.900] [SPEAKER_11]: It's the phone company serving you.
[01:27:26.900 --> 01:27:33.600] [SPEAKER_11]: If it was another company serving not only you, but other people, then that's kind of the cloud, you know what I mean?
[01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:34.240] [SPEAKER_10]: Right, right.
[01:27:34.360 --> 01:27:36.440] [SPEAKER_10]: It was remote technology that we were using.
[01:27:38.600 --> 01:27:38.960] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:27:39.580 --> 01:27:40.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Can I ask you a question, Rebel?
[01:27:40.960 --> 01:27:44.720] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you're somebody that has been active with phones for a long time.
[01:27:45.380 --> 01:27:49.180] [SPEAKER_10]: In this day and age, which is 2026 now, my God.
[01:27:49.940 --> 01:27:52.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Do you still have a landline?
[01:27:53.180 --> 01:27:53.860] [SPEAKER_10]: You know what?
[01:27:53.940 --> 01:27:54.540] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't.
[01:27:54.700 --> 01:27:55.280] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, my God.
[01:27:56.460 --> 01:27:59.800] [SPEAKER_11]: When I moved to it, like 10 years ago, I got rid of it.
[01:27:59.920 --> 01:28:02.660] [SPEAKER_11]: But I think I want to get... I just called Verizon, actually.
[01:28:03.240 --> 01:28:07.280] [SPEAKER_11]: And I asked them what it would take to get a wired line, a regular wired line phone.
[01:28:07.640 --> 01:28:17.220] [SPEAKER_11]: If you don't have anything, like if you don't have call, if you just take like an old, like, I don't know, trim line phone or, you know, a phone from like the 80s or something, plug it into a...
[01:28:17.220 --> 01:28:19.420] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, they come out and they have to install it.
[01:28:19.500 --> 01:28:22.740] [SPEAKER_11]: That's like $150, the wire and the jack and all that.
[01:28:22.940 --> 01:28:25.740] [SPEAKER_11]: And then you have to pay like $50 a month to have the service.
[01:28:26.160 --> 01:28:27.620] [SPEAKER_11]: And then you've got to pay for your phone call.
[01:28:27.640 --> 01:28:35.160] [SPEAKER_11]: If you want the basic service, if you don't want the files, if you don't want the Internet or the TV, you just get to get more expensive.
[01:28:35.360 --> 01:28:41.200] [SPEAKER_11]: And you want to do star 69 or any of those features, oh, star 69 is like $1.50 now per year.
[01:28:41.280 --> 01:28:42.020] [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's insane.
[01:28:42.020 --> 01:28:42.680] [SPEAKER_10]: That's insane.
[01:28:42.900 --> 01:28:44.580] [SPEAKER_10]: And I think they want it that way.
[01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:46.960] [SPEAKER_10]: I think they want to discourage people from having landlines.
[01:28:47.560 --> 01:28:48.860] [SPEAKER_11]: That's what I was thinking.
[01:28:50.060 --> 01:28:54.080] [SPEAKER_11]: But I just want to have one just to, I mean, I don't know, just to have another second phone.
[01:28:54.160 --> 01:28:56.120] [SPEAKER_11]: But then again, you know, I have a cell phone.
[01:28:56.200 --> 01:28:57.940] [SPEAKER_11]: I have, you know, everything's here.
[01:28:58.080 --> 01:28:59.820] [SPEAKER_11]: And everybody knows the number.
[01:29:01.080 --> 01:29:02.620] [SPEAKER_11]: It's just more efficient.
[01:29:02.800 --> 01:29:03.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Here's a crazy idea.
[01:29:03.780 --> 01:29:08.280] [SPEAKER_10]: What if landlines were just free and everywhere?
[01:29:08.660 --> 01:29:10.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Would you have one in your house then?
[01:29:12.020 --> 01:29:12.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Backup.
[01:29:12.580 --> 01:29:15.360] [SPEAKER_10]: You only use it when you need to, but it's always there.
[01:29:16.360 --> 01:29:17.960] [SPEAKER_10]: I know it's going to cost money.
[01:29:18.080 --> 01:29:23.040] [SPEAKER_10]: I know someone's got to, you know, pay for the upkeep, but it's an important part of the infrastructure, I think.
[01:29:24.420 --> 01:29:24.660] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[01:29:24.820 --> 01:29:26.680] [SPEAKER_11]: But I mean, what do businesses do?
[01:29:26.940 --> 01:29:29.260] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the businesses are not mobile.
[01:29:29.420 --> 01:29:36.040] [SPEAKER_11]: They have a store or a business that's, you know, there and they need phones, TVX or whatever.
[01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:40.220] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, there's TVX is in the cloud, which I guess is kind of like screen sharks.
[01:29:41.480 --> 01:29:41.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:29:41.680 --> 01:29:46.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, you see a lot of businesses with 917 numbers, which usually are cell phones.
[01:29:46.900 --> 01:29:47.220] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[01:29:47.360 --> 01:29:47.520] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:29:48.360 --> 01:29:49.000] [SPEAKER_11]: That's interesting.
[01:29:49.840 --> 01:29:51.840] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's like the phone.
[01:29:51.840 --> 01:29:59.500] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, and also people call and there's these like scans, like, you know, like, whatever, they text you now.
[01:29:59.580 --> 01:30:02.180] [SPEAKER_11]: They text you saying, I'm from Charles Schwab.
[01:30:02.680 --> 01:30:04.900] [SPEAKER_11]: I have a great investment opportunity or whatever.
[01:30:05.100 --> 01:30:08.620] [SPEAKER_11]: And it's like from some number in Michigan or something.
[01:30:08.820 --> 01:30:11.080] [SPEAKER_11]: But, you know, of course, when you call it, it doesn't work.
[01:30:11.380 --> 01:30:12.420] [SPEAKER_11]: How are they texting you?
[01:30:12.420 --> 01:30:14.500] [SPEAKER_10]: Why are you calling it?
[01:30:14.780 --> 01:30:15.920] [SPEAKER_10]: You can ignore it.
[01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:17.900] [SPEAKER_11]: At least if it's a text, you don't have to...
[01:30:18.380 --> 01:30:19.780] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not calling it from my phone.
[01:30:19.940 --> 01:30:21.300] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm calling it from another phone, of course.
[01:30:21.300 --> 01:30:23.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it doesn't matter how many phones you're using.
[01:30:23.540 --> 01:30:27.400] [SPEAKER_10]: The point is, you know, a text message, you don't have to even acknowledge.
[01:30:27.640 --> 01:30:33.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Whereas if you pick up a phone and it's some annoying telemarketer, it's a lot harder to get off the phone without saying something regrettable.
[01:30:34.380 --> 01:30:41.040] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's, you know, I had that call today also, you know, someone called you saying, oh, did you... would you like to publish a book?
[01:30:41.160 --> 01:30:42.420] [SPEAKER_11]: Do you have a book you like published?
[01:30:43.280 --> 01:30:45.760] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, like, it's like a book publishing scam now.
[01:30:45.800 --> 01:30:50.920] [SPEAKER_10]: When's the last time you got an actual phone call that you picked up and said, oh, hey, and you had a conversation?
[01:30:50.920 --> 01:30:51.840] [SPEAKER_10]: When's the last time that happened?
[01:30:51.880 --> 01:30:52.980] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, right, I got that.
[01:30:53.120 --> 01:30:54.420] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, obviously, I got that.
[01:30:54.560 --> 01:30:54.900] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I know...
[01:30:54.900 --> 01:30:56.040] [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of people don't.
[01:30:56.160 --> 01:30:58.960] [SPEAKER_10]: A lot of people can't remember the last time they've been on a phone call.
[01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:13.660] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, the thing is, people, these telemarketers are scammers, they call you from strange numbers so much that when a legitimate person calls that you're expecting, and then you're like, you don't want to say hello, you, you, you, you, you know,
[01:31:13.760 --> 01:31:18.200] [SPEAKER_11]: like, don't answer or whatever, you know, and they say, hello, is this, uh, Richard?
[01:31:18.520 --> 01:31:22.080] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, uh, oh, oh, yes, hi, you know, uh-huh, hi, yes.
[01:31:22.300 --> 01:31:22.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[01:31:22.640 --> 01:31:23.420] [SPEAKER_10]: And it's an important...
[01:31:23.420 --> 01:31:24.840] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's like, you know, who is this?
[01:31:24.920 --> 01:31:26.660] [SPEAKER_10]: I proved that you're who you say you are.
[01:31:26.820 --> 01:31:30.860] [SPEAKER_10]: And after, like, five minutes of that, they hung up, and finally you get the conversation started.
[01:31:31.700 --> 01:31:40.980] [SPEAKER_11]: Right, or they have the annoying phone, like, now you call people and they say, please say your name after the tone and we'll see if your party wants to talk or something like that.
[01:31:41.240 --> 01:31:42.360] [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's great, too.
[01:31:42.540 --> 01:31:43.680] [SPEAKER_10]: That's, that, that's pretty awesome.
[01:31:43.840 --> 01:31:45.140] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's like, that's what we do.
[01:31:45.580 --> 01:31:50.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And now we get people that call with fake voices that imitate you.
[01:31:51.500 --> 01:31:54.200] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, wow.
[01:31:55.080 --> 01:31:56.780] [SPEAKER_10]: I just don't know what's going to happen next.
[01:31:57.980 --> 01:32:07.540] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, this is why I want to, I mean, some places are getting rid of the wired line, they're not even installing a wired line phone anymore, like, I think, in California or someplace in Florida or something.
[01:32:08.040 --> 01:32:11.800] [SPEAKER_11]: They're not even offering, the local phone companies aren't even offering wired line phones.
[01:32:12.140 --> 01:32:12.460] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[01:32:12.780 --> 01:32:13.320] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:32:15.020 --> 01:32:19.500] [SPEAKER_11]: It's like, just like, you know, like, people are not using gas, cars that use gasoline anymore.
[01:32:19.600 --> 01:32:22.980] [SPEAKER_10]: Does anyone else want to complain about society or is it just going to be me and Rebel?
[01:32:23.100 --> 01:32:23.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Come on, guys.
[01:32:24.660 --> 01:32:26.580] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still thinking about Rebel publishing a book.
[01:32:26.700 --> 01:32:27.800] [SPEAKER_01]: Rebel, please publish a book.
[01:32:27.980 --> 01:32:28.740] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you should.
[01:32:28.740 --> 01:32:31.560] [SPEAKER_11]: No, I was thinking of you when they asked me that.
[01:32:31.620 --> 01:32:35.080] [SPEAKER_11]: I was thinking of you, and I said, you know, I don't know what to tell you.
[01:32:35.180 --> 01:32:37.920] [SPEAKER_11]: I was thinking of, you know, 2600, you know, that's a publisher.
[01:32:38.320 --> 01:32:38.720] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:32:38.960 --> 01:32:41.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Wild books are still cool before they get eliminated.
[01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:43.120] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:32:43.420 --> 01:32:47.960] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you had the Kindle and the Nook and all those kind of e-readers or whatever.
[01:32:48.220 --> 01:32:48.760] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:32:48.860 --> 01:32:51.680] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I have something on my computer.
[01:32:52.040 --> 01:32:55.240] [SPEAKER_11]: It's the Bell system from 1992 and 96.
[01:32:56.100 --> 01:33:01.100] [SPEAKER_11]: The Topps, technical manual, traffic operator position, technical manual, like when you dial zero.
[01:33:02.440 --> 01:33:03.580] [SPEAKER_11]: It's really complicated.
[01:33:03.780 --> 01:33:07.080] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, they're just telling you how it's, like, hooked up and networked and all that.
[01:33:07.200 --> 01:33:10.200] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I should, like, maybe go, like, print it out and bring it to Hope or something.
[01:33:10.320 --> 01:33:10.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, you should.
[01:33:10.960 --> 01:33:12.260] [SPEAKER_10]: Or scan it or something.
[01:33:12.740 --> 01:33:13.680] [SPEAKER_10]: They might need that.
[01:33:13.720 --> 01:33:15.260] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I mean, I did actually...
[01:33:15.260 --> 01:33:16.580] [SPEAKER_11]: I think I emailed it to you.
[01:33:16.660 --> 01:33:18.300] [SPEAKER_11]: I think I even sent it to you.
[01:33:19.080 --> 01:33:20.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, who knows what I did with that.
[01:33:22.460 --> 01:33:24.880] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, Rebel, this has been fun.
[01:33:25.000 --> 01:33:28.340] [SPEAKER_10]: Any other concluding remarks before we open up the phone line to someone else?
[01:33:29.500 --> 01:33:34.740] [SPEAKER_11]: No, I mean, I'd like to, like, take, like, computer terminals or, like, even PCs and, like, network.
[01:33:34.840 --> 01:33:42.140] [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe there should be a networking thing at Hope, like, where people, you know, learn how to, like, network different things, like, like, a local area network at Hope.
[01:33:42.400 --> 01:33:43.660] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, a wired local area.
[01:33:43.740 --> 01:33:44.800] [SPEAKER_10]: No, there's nothing we can't do.
[01:33:45.440 --> 01:33:46.700] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we'll bring lots of cable.
[01:33:47.040 --> 01:33:47.320] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:33:48.200 --> 01:33:48.480] [SPEAKER_07]: What?
[01:33:49.100 --> 01:33:50.080] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll have extra cable.
[01:33:50.180 --> 01:33:50.960] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll have lots of cable.
[01:33:51.040 --> 01:33:51.400] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, we will.
[01:33:51.420 --> 01:33:52.780] [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, you can connect it all.
[01:33:54.060 --> 01:33:54.380] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:55.580] [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I mean...
[01:33:55.580 --> 01:34:02.120] [SPEAKER_11]: But I'd like to, you know, be the one who volunteers that, you know, at the front desk or whatever, you know, help people get around.
[01:34:02.260 --> 01:34:05.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Help people get around the neighborhood, yes, because there's so much out there.
[01:34:05.240 --> 01:34:13.660] [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, if you're coming to New York City, I'm speaking to other listeners, if you're coming to New York City for the first time, I can't think of a better way to see New York City than through the eyes of hackers.
[01:34:14.300 --> 01:34:20.880] [SPEAKER_10]: And you'll just be amazed at what the city is like, how it's not at all the way people have described it to you.
[01:34:21.060 --> 01:34:24.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's the amount of fun and how friendly people are.
[01:34:24.340 --> 01:34:25.380] [SPEAKER_10]: It's just, it's magic.
[01:34:26.100 --> 01:34:29.040] [SPEAKER_11]: I think I should make a little private commercial for Hope.
[01:34:29.320 --> 01:34:32.080] [SPEAKER_11]: You know, like a 30-second, like, private commercial.
[01:34:32.260 --> 01:34:33.140] [SPEAKER_11]: Why didn't we think of that?
[01:34:33.300 --> 01:34:34.480] [SPEAKER_10]: And air it during the...
[01:34:34.480 --> 01:34:35.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the Super Bowl's over.
[01:34:35.500 --> 01:34:36.800] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, during something.
[01:34:37.040 --> 01:34:37.940] [SPEAKER_10]: But get it out there, yeah.
[01:34:38.520 --> 01:34:40.000] [SPEAKER_10]: You can take care of that for us.
[01:34:40.300 --> 01:34:42.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, they don't have commercials.
[01:34:42.540 --> 01:34:43.380] [SPEAKER_10]: That's the thing.
[01:34:43.500 --> 01:34:44.400] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's true, yeah.
[01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:45.640] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[01:34:46.220 --> 01:35:01.300] [SPEAKER_07]: Just, like, get an overhead projector with some transparencies and use, like, a pointer and stand in front of it and just get a phone and record yourself and you just share different things, your points, kind of like an analog style.
[01:35:01.500 --> 01:35:03.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we just got to get the word out somehow, you know?
[01:35:03.780 --> 01:35:14.440] [SPEAKER_10]: Get the word out to newspapers, magazines, radio, television, the sky, all kinds of places where people are looking.
[01:35:15.080 --> 01:35:15.760] [SPEAKER_11]: Leaflets, graffiti.
[01:35:16.400 --> 01:35:18.540] [SPEAKER_11]: How many of the press people, you know, like, you know, like from the mainstream media?
[01:35:18.800 --> 01:35:20.120] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, the press people show up.
[01:35:20.200 --> 01:35:28.560] [SPEAKER_10]: They always want to, you know, show up to the conference, but they don't help spread the word about the conference, and that's what we really need.
[01:35:28.800 --> 01:35:37.040] [SPEAKER_11]: Well, because, I mean, obviously you've got to pay to do that, but I'm talking about maybe like making something and putting it on like a Facebook page or...
[01:35:37.040 --> 01:35:39.840] [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have to pay to have an article written.
[01:35:40.200 --> 01:35:41.540] [SPEAKER_10]: You shouldn't have to pay for that.
[01:35:42.100 --> 01:35:46.760] [SPEAKER_10]: And many of these journalists get in for free, too.
[01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:54.400] [SPEAKER_10]: So, you know, it's basically we want the conference to actually have a lot of people that want to be at the conference.
[01:35:54.860 --> 01:35:56.640] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's why we do it.
[01:35:56.760 --> 01:35:57.880] [SPEAKER_10]: That's the whole reason.
[01:35:59.940 --> 01:36:00.540] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:36:00.740 --> 01:36:05.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Rebel, it's great hearing from you, and we will hear from you again in the future.
[01:36:05.920 --> 01:36:06.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Not tonight, though.
[01:36:07.860 --> 01:36:08.100] [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[01:36:08.840 --> 01:36:10.240] [SPEAKER_11]: Unless the AI calls.
[01:36:10.420 --> 01:36:10.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:36:10.640 --> 01:36:12.260] [SPEAKER_10]: If somebody else calls, we know it's not you.
[01:36:13.140 --> 01:36:13.540] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[01:36:13.780 --> 01:36:14.080] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:36:14.400 --> 01:36:17.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Have a good night, and we will see you in the future.
[01:36:18.320 --> 01:36:20.940] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225 is our phone number.
[01:36:21.320 --> 01:36:23.500] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-HACK.
[01:36:28.400 --> 01:36:29.400] [SPEAKER_00]: We have a question.
[01:36:30.100 --> 01:36:31.620] [SPEAKER_00]: Do we do press releases?
[01:36:32.520 --> 01:36:34.020] [SPEAKER_00]: Do we do press releases?
[01:36:34.300 --> 01:36:36.180] [SPEAKER_00]: The question is, do you guys do press releases?
[01:36:36.420 --> 01:36:37.780] [SPEAKER_10]: We can write press releases.
[01:36:38.320 --> 01:36:41.000] [SPEAKER_10]: The question is, who will read the press releases?
[01:36:41.320 --> 01:36:42.920] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I'll tell you a story.
[01:36:43.320 --> 01:36:53.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Last week, last week, last year, I was involved in doing a Canada Day celebration in this country, which nobody else was doing, July 1st.
[01:36:53.740 --> 01:37:04.780] [SPEAKER_10]: And we sent press releases out to every TV station, every radio station, every newspaper, every magazine we could find.
[01:37:05.340 --> 01:37:10.740] [SPEAKER_10]: And we did not get a single response from anything in the United States.
[01:37:11.040 --> 01:37:19.480] [SPEAKER_10]: In Canada, however, we got all kinds of responses, and I was on As It Happens on the CBC National Network.
[01:37:19.480 --> 01:37:23.280] [SPEAKER_10]: And the thing is, we didn't even send it to them.
[01:37:23.380 --> 01:37:27.880] [SPEAKER_10]: We were going to send it to them, but we hadn't gotten to them yet before they got to us.
[01:37:28.340 --> 01:37:29.420] [SPEAKER_10]: That's how good they are.
[01:37:29.520 --> 01:37:30.920] [SPEAKER_10]: That's how much they pay attention.
[01:37:31.360 --> 01:37:34.400] [SPEAKER_10]: In this country, I don't think they pay attention anymore.
[01:37:34.480 --> 01:37:35.640] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's sad.
[01:37:36.020 --> 01:37:36.880] [SPEAKER_10]: That's really sad.
[01:37:36.880 --> 01:37:49.580] [SPEAKER_10]: But if we know of journalists that will actually read something and, you know, do some investigation and, you know, do some reporting and asking questions, interviews, things like that, yeah, let us know.
[01:37:49.700 --> 01:37:52.580] [SPEAKER_10]: We will definitely get them, you know, the press release.
[01:37:52.700 --> 01:37:55.480] [SPEAKER_10]: We will write as many press releases as we possibly can.
[01:37:56.600 --> 01:38:01.620] [SPEAKER_10]: We have a lot to boast about, to send out news about.
[01:38:01.620 --> 01:38:15.000] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and we do regularly write news stories and publish them on the web and make other sorts of announcements and small ads available in other ways when we publish.
[01:38:15.740 --> 01:38:17.000] [SPEAKER_10]: We have a phone call?
[01:38:17.180 --> 01:38:18.480] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it's on the line, yeah.
[01:38:18.740 --> 01:38:19.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, good evening.
[01:38:19.560 --> 01:38:21.320] [SPEAKER_10]: You are on...
[01:38:21.320 --> 01:38:22.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:38:22.660 --> 01:38:22.880] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:38:24.360 --> 01:38:25.520] [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening, gang.
[01:38:25.700 --> 01:38:26.400] [SPEAKER_12]: Tim in Connecticut.
[01:38:26.400 --> 01:38:27.340] [SPEAKER_12]: How are you guys doing?
[01:38:27.460 --> 01:38:28.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, Tim in Connecticut.
[01:38:28.160 --> 01:38:28.640] [SPEAKER_10]: How have you been?
[01:38:28.880 --> 01:38:29.140] [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[01:38:30.140 --> 01:38:30.880] [SPEAKER_12]: Very well.
[01:38:30.880 --> 01:38:31.760] [SPEAKER_12]: Well, thank you very much.
[01:38:31.880 --> 01:38:33.300] [SPEAKER_12]: I hope everybody else is good.
[01:38:33.500 --> 01:38:38.760] [SPEAKER_10]: Tim, I'm sorry that we won't be able to meet you in the dive bar in Queens this summer.
[01:38:40.420 --> 01:38:41.940] [SPEAKER_10]: However, I have good news.
[01:38:41.940 --> 01:38:44.020] [SPEAKER_10]: We can meet you in a different dive bar in Manhattan.
[01:38:44.860 --> 01:38:45.700] [SPEAKER_12]: There you go.
[01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:49.220] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm sure everybody will know about it before the time comes.
[01:38:49.440 --> 01:39:04.900] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we discovered last week, actually, Kyle, you saw this, one block up from the hotel is an Irish bar, which is great because that's, you know, where people congregated by Hotel Penn was in the Blarney Rock, which is no longer around.
[01:39:05.180 --> 01:39:06.580] [SPEAKER_10]: And this, what's it called, Kyle?
[01:39:06.640 --> 01:39:07.400] [SPEAKER_10]: It's got a weird name.
[01:39:07.700 --> 01:39:10.100] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I saw an Irish flag.
[01:39:10.340 --> 01:39:11.700] [SPEAKER_07]: We didn't go in.
[01:39:11.780 --> 01:39:19.400] [SPEAKER_07]: We have not stepped over the threshold in the place, but I, at first, was confused by the name.
[01:39:19.520 --> 01:39:20.400] [SPEAKER_07]: It's the tailor.
[01:39:20.700 --> 01:39:21.220] [SPEAKER_10]: The tailor.
[01:39:21.340 --> 01:39:23.860] [SPEAKER_10]: We thought it was a tailor because it's in the garment district.
[01:39:24.080 --> 01:39:24.580] [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.
[01:39:24.580 --> 01:39:34.460] [SPEAKER_07]: And they had a thread and needle in their logo, but it also said a public house, which immediately I realized, okay, that's a venue of sorts.
[01:39:34.660 --> 01:39:35.860] [SPEAKER_07]: We have not been in there.
[01:39:35.980 --> 01:39:36.920] [SPEAKER_07]: We don't know anybody.
[01:39:37.120 --> 01:39:40.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but we stuck our heads up to the window and there were people in there and they were drinking.
[01:39:40.660 --> 01:39:43.300] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great large space.
[01:39:43.540 --> 01:39:46.900] [SPEAKER_07]: I believe a horseshoe sort of bar.
[01:39:47.100 --> 01:39:48.920] [SPEAKER_07]: I think they have two levels in there.
[01:39:49.560 --> 01:39:58.380] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it looks like a fantastic place to grab a drink, to meet some people and step out from the event.
[01:39:58.520 --> 01:39:59.940] [SPEAKER_07]: There are other places around too.
[01:39:59.940 --> 01:40:06.840] [SPEAKER_10]: But what's funny is it's literally one door up from the WBAI entrance back when we were on 35th Street.
[01:40:07.200 --> 01:40:09.180] [SPEAKER_10]: It's literally one door up from there.
[01:40:09.320 --> 01:40:10.360] [SPEAKER_10]: It wasn't there when we were there.
[01:40:10.960 --> 01:40:17.240] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, even if this isn't a good place, I think it is a good place, but even if it isn't, there's another good place a block away.
[01:40:17.400 --> 01:40:18.220] [SPEAKER_07]: There's so many.
[01:40:18.240 --> 01:40:20.320] [SPEAKER_10]: It's an incredibly busy part of town.
[01:40:20.500 --> 01:40:22.060] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we're really interested in what people...
[01:40:22.060 --> 01:40:22.820] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, you can give it a shot.
[01:40:23.560 --> 01:40:24.600] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:40:24.820 --> 01:40:25.220] [SPEAKER_07]: It's worth a shot.
[01:40:25.660 --> 01:40:26.820] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely check it out.
[01:40:27.060 --> 01:40:38.500] [SPEAKER_07]: We will definitely take pointers or tips from people that are familiar with the area or that go to places that they like and turn everybody on to them.
[01:40:38.660 --> 01:40:46.820] [SPEAKER_07]: And, yeah, we'll take those referrals for sure and share them with other attendees, you know, if we make a list of top spots to go to.
[01:40:46.960 --> 01:40:47.700] [SPEAKER_07]: But they're really...
[01:40:47.700 --> 01:40:49.020] [SPEAKER_07]: It's so endless there.
[01:40:49.340 --> 01:40:51.100] [SPEAKER_10]: And Gila is raising her hand.
[01:40:51.100 --> 01:40:51.400] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:40:51.640 --> 01:40:52.280] [SPEAKER_00]: I am.
[01:40:52.440 --> 01:40:58.500] [SPEAKER_00]: Because there is a place that I've always wanted to go that it turns out is one avenue away from the New Yorker Hotel.
[01:40:58.720 --> 01:40:58.900] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:40:59.540 --> 01:41:00.860] [SPEAKER_10]: It's called Break Bar.
[01:41:01.320 --> 01:41:02.180] [SPEAKER_10]: Which direction?
[01:41:02.320 --> 01:41:03.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Ninth or Seventh?
[01:41:03.640 --> 01:41:04.100] [SPEAKER_10]: Ninth.
[01:41:04.320 --> 01:41:04.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:41:04.560 --> 01:41:05.760] [SPEAKER_10]: A little bit to the west.
[01:41:06.080 --> 01:41:07.240] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, a little bit to the west.
[01:41:07.520 --> 01:41:15.500] [SPEAKER_00]: Break Bar is a bar where they have very disposable glassware.
[01:41:15.700 --> 01:41:20.700] [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea is you drink and then you throw your glass at the wall.
[01:41:21.320 --> 01:41:21.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[01:41:21.800 --> 01:41:22.780] [SPEAKER_10]: I could get into that.
[01:41:23.200 --> 01:41:27.140] [SPEAKER_00]: You can also buy a bucket of empty bottles.
[01:41:29.280 --> 01:41:29.760] Wow.
[01:41:30.280 --> 01:41:30.580] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[01:41:30.580 --> 01:41:34.120] [SPEAKER_00]: You can buy beers and then drink the beers and throw the bottles.
[01:41:34.460 --> 01:41:36.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Can you throw the bottle before drinking the beer?
[01:41:36.940 --> 01:41:38.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's say you don't want to drink too much?
[01:41:38.100 --> 01:41:38.380] [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[01:41:38.640 --> 01:41:40.140] [SPEAKER_00]: So you can get empty bottles and...
[01:41:40.700 --> 01:41:46.120] [SPEAKER_00]: I've always wanted to go here and it is a block away from...
[01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:48.340] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a long block but it's a block away from the hotel.
[01:41:48.500 --> 01:41:49.580] [SPEAKER_10]: Let's say I have my own bottles.
[01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:50.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Can I bring them?
[01:41:50.660 --> 01:41:51.600] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[01:41:51.760 --> 01:41:55.660] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if the rules about bringing in your own glassware are the same as bringing in your own alcohol.
[01:41:56.140 --> 01:41:58.700] [SPEAKER_12]: There's no recycle fee or something on your bottles?
[01:42:01.460 --> 01:42:06.780] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if every drink has an extra five cent subcharge on it because...
[01:42:07.280 --> 01:42:12.160] [SPEAKER_10]: I want to go in there with a plastic water bottle and say this thing's broken because it's not breaking.
[01:42:14.940 --> 01:42:22.820] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, just the catharsis of throwing your bottle and smashing it I think is maybe worth more than five cents in terms of positive effect on your mental health.
[01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:25.220] [SPEAKER_00]: And they are open till 4 a.m.
[01:42:25.360 --> 01:42:26.800] [SPEAKER_00]: Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.
[01:42:27.020 --> 01:42:28.760] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to get some outings for this.
[01:42:29.200 --> 01:42:32.980] [SPEAKER_07]: That was actually the same hours for the other bar.
[01:42:33.240 --> 01:42:35.340] [SPEAKER_07]: I have a feeling a lot of places are open till 4 a.m.
[01:42:35.360 --> 01:42:40.080] [SPEAKER_10]: So we found all this activity on the same block that the hotel is on.
[01:42:40.560 --> 01:42:42.240] [SPEAKER_10]: And there's so much more around it.
[01:42:42.360 --> 01:42:43.020] [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to be awesome.
[01:42:47.480 --> 01:42:49.000] [SPEAKER_01]: I am teetotal.
[01:42:49.120 --> 01:42:49.620] [SPEAKER_01]: I never drink.
[01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:50.740] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to the bar with you.
[01:42:51.720 --> 01:42:53.240] [SPEAKER_00]: You love going to bars with me.
[01:42:53.460 --> 01:42:54.120] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't even front.
[01:42:55.440 --> 01:42:57.000] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you don't have to drink to throw a bottle.
[01:42:57.660 --> 01:42:58.260] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, go ahead.
[01:42:58.260 --> 01:43:07.200] [SPEAKER_12]: I was wondering if anybody else has seen a little thing that I've noticed lately where my phone won't ring but I'll have a voicemail.
[01:43:07.420 --> 01:43:08.300] [SPEAKER_09]: That happens.
[01:43:08.520 --> 01:43:10.660] [SPEAKER_12]: Voicemail is just a regular old cold call.
[01:43:10.940 --> 01:43:15.300] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know how they got the voicemail into my voicemail box for Verizon.
[01:43:15.800 --> 01:43:17.820] [SPEAKER_12]: But it's so weird.
[01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:22.560] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, nothing on the caller ID, just all of a sudden you have a voicemail.
[01:43:22.580 --> 01:43:24.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Is this a cell phone or a landline?
[01:43:25.360 --> 01:43:26.020] [SPEAKER_12]: Cell phone.
[01:43:26.020 --> 01:43:36.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, one of the reasons could be that you have sucky service and that you just, you know, lots of times I don't get a call.
[01:43:36.260 --> 01:43:43.120] [SPEAKER_10]: I get a voicemail from somebody I'm expecting a call from because for whatever reason, that moment I'm not getting a signal.
[01:43:43.280 --> 01:43:43.580] [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[01:43:43.680 --> 01:43:47.300] [SPEAKER_10]: It looks like I have a signal but the call itself just goes straight to voicemail.
[01:43:47.400 --> 01:43:48.300] [SPEAKER_10]: That happens a lot.
[01:43:48.920 --> 01:43:51.420] [SPEAKER_12]: And you don't see anything in your call log?
[01:43:51.560 --> 01:43:53.460] [SPEAKER_10]: No, because the phone doesn't actually ring.
[01:43:53.580 --> 01:43:54.340] [SPEAKER_10]: It just goes to...
[01:43:54.340 --> 01:43:55.840] [SPEAKER_10]: It's like your phone is off.
[01:43:56.020 --> 01:44:00.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Or it's like you have no service because for that split second you don't.
[01:44:00.480 --> 01:44:07.220] [SPEAKER_10]: Another way to do it if two people call at the exact same time one person will get through one person will go to voicemail.
[01:44:07.900 --> 01:44:09.120] [SPEAKER_12]: That's a good idea, yeah.
[01:44:09.380 --> 01:44:23.420] [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I've set up voicemail systems over the time and I know that if I have the administrator password I could leave one voicemail for everybody and I was kind of wondering if maybe somebody was hacking their way in that way but it's Verizon.
[01:44:24.140 --> 01:44:24.280] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[01:44:25.720 --> 01:44:26.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:44:26.820 --> 01:44:28.540] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's interesting though.
[01:44:29.140 --> 01:44:30.500] [SPEAKER_10]: That definitely can happen.
[01:44:31.560 --> 01:44:33.580] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, my phone is hardly ever off.
[01:44:33.920 --> 01:44:39.700] [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, if it's off I'm probably passed out dead or in the hospital or some other thing.
[01:44:39.940 --> 01:44:40.780] [SPEAKER_09]: Or run out of battery.
[01:44:40.960 --> 01:44:42.760] [SPEAKER_09]: The phones do run out of batteries.
[01:44:44.340 --> 01:44:49.980] [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, mine doesn't only because I just keep it charged all the time.
[01:44:50.160 --> 01:44:52.500] [SPEAKER_12]: It'll die eventually I'm sure.
[01:44:54.360 --> 01:45:02.060] [SPEAKER_12]: Alrighty, well that was the only thing I had plus I'm sure all these bars will be in the orientation at Hope, right?
[01:45:02.960 --> 01:45:16.560] [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, we'll let people know about them and also don't forget the TikTok diner in the hotel which is open 24 hours a day and it has a full bar in it for, you know if that's important to people it's right there.
[01:45:16.780 --> 01:45:17.780] [SPEAKER_07]: And disco fries.
[01:45:18.120 --> 01:45:19.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Disco fries too, yeah, they have that.
[01:45:20.400 --> 01:45:27.900] [SPEAKER_12]: It might not be important but it's very, very necessary sometimes.
[01:45:28.100 --> 01:45:34.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we want to just have options for people and I know that was an issue in Queens because we were on a campus that was a dry campus.
[01:45:35.100 --> 01:45:35.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:45:35.520 --> 01:45:46.200] [SPEAKER_10]: So, yeah, you know, it can but the other the flip side of that is you know, we didn't have any of the problems that we had late at night with drunk people and I don't want to have those problems in the future.
[01:45:46.460 --> 01:45:46.740] [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[01:45:47.060 --> 01:45:47.160] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:45:47.840 --> 01:45:48.300] [SPEAKER_12]: All righty.
[01:45:48.500 --> 01:45:50.600] [SPEAKER_12]: I'll get off the line and let everybody else call in.
[01:45:50.700 --> 01:45:51.440] [SPEAKER_12]: All right, good to hear from you.
[01:45:51.520 --> 01:45:51.860] [SPEAKER_10]: Have a great night.
[01:45:51.940 --> 01:45:52.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, good to hear you.
[01:45:52.980 --> 01:45:53.300] [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[01:45:53.480 --> 01:45:54.120] [SPEAKER_12]: Have a good one, guys.
[01:45:54.280 --> 01:45:54.520] [SPEAKER_12]: Bye-bye.
[01:45:54.660 --> 01:45:54.720] [SPEAKER_12]: Bye.
[01:45:55.480 --> 01:45:56.620] [SPEAKER_10]: Tim from Connecticut there.
[01:45:57.440 --> 01:46:00.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, so all of that we found this tonight.
[01:46:01.520 --> 01:46:03.220] [SPEAKER_10]: B&H, isn't B&H on that block too?
[01:46:03.920 --> 01:46:05.680] [SPEAKER_10]: The best electronics in the world?
[01:46:05.980 --> 01:46:06.740] [SPEAKER_01]: Somewhere there, yeah.
[01:46:06.860 --> 01:46:09.620] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but as a friendly reminder they will not be open on Saturday.
[01:46:10.120 --> 01:46:12.480] [SPEAKER_10]: Or Friday after, what, three o'clock?
[01:46:12.940 --> 01:46:14.120] [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, if you get there early...
[01:46:14.120 --> 01:46:17.020] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's August so Shabbos is like, you know, late but...
[01:46:17.020 --> 01:46:18.480] [SPEAKER_10]: And there's always Sunday.
[01:46:18.940 --> 01:46:19.760] [SPEAKER_10]: There's always Sunday.
[01:46:19.760 --> 01:46:20.500] [SPEAKER_00]: There's always Sunday.
[01:46:20.900 --> 01:46:26.500] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, just don't be surprised if people are like, I'm gonna go to B&H.
[01:46:26.640 --> 01:46:27.220] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's closed.
[01:46:27.380 --> 01:46:28.820] [SPEAKER_00]: Why is it closed on Saturday afternoon?
[01:46:29.100 --> 01:46:30.120] [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, there was...
[01:46:30.120 --> 01:46:32.240] [SPEAKER_00]: This is one of my favorite stories in the whole entire world.
[01:46:32.400 --> 01:46:41.160] [SPEAKER_00]: There was a kosher bagel establishment in our neighborhood and people basically review-bombed their Yelp page and they're like, I want bacon on my bagel.
[01:46:41.280 --> 01:46:43.700] [SPEAKER_00]: Why can't I get f*cking bacon in this place?
[01:46:43.840 --> 01:46:44.700] [SPEAKER_00]: This is bullshit.
[01:46:44.880 --> 01:46:45.880] [SPEAKER_00]: I want bacon.
[01:46:46.020 --> 01:46:48.840] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you're in a kosher bagel place.
[01:46:48.840 --> 01:46:51.580] [SPEAKER_00]: You can walk two feet down the street and get something else.
[01:46:51.740 --> 01:46:53.240] [SPEAKER_00]: They've actually given up their supervision.
[01:46:54.040 --> 01:46:55.100] [SPEAKER_01]: They're no longer kosher.
[01:46:55.200 --> 01:46:56.320] [SPEAKER_00]: They're also no longer good.
[01:46:56.600 --> 01:46:58.620] [SPEAKER_00]: Not that they were good before, but like...
[01:46:58.620 --> 01:46:59.920] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[01:47:00.100 --> 01:47:02.460] [SPEAKER_00]: Do a little research before you get mad is all in fact.
[01:47:02.460 --> 01:47:05.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Was that one person who had an issue with this or was it a bunch of people?
[01:47:05.460 --> 01:47:08.720] [SPEAKER_10]: No, it was a lot of really stupid people.
[01:47:08.820 --> 01:47:12.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a place near the Long Island Road Station in town.
[01:47:12.360 --> 01:47:14.440] [SPEAKER_10]: I've never had had bacon on a bagel.
[01:47:14.600 --> 01:47:15.540] [SPEAKER_10]: I've never had that.
[01:47:15.760 --> 01:47:16.420] [SPEAKER_10]: I never thought that.
[01:47:16.440 --> 01:47:17.940] [SPEAKER_01]: You've never had a bacon egg and cheese?
[01:47:18.300 --> 01:47:19.100] [SPEAKER_10]: On a bagel?
[01:47:19.100 --> 01:47:19.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, no.
[01:47:20.480 --> 01:47:20.860] [SPEAKER_07]: Ew.
[01:47:21.100 --> 01:47:21.820] [SPEAKER_10]: Why would I do that?
[01:47:21.880 --> 01:47:28.260] [SPEAKER_07]: I've had that, but that is stupid petty because there are so many other things at a kosher deli that you could get on a bagel that would be fantastic.
[01:47:28.660 --> 01:47:28.760] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:47:29.120 --> 01:47:49.380] [SPEAKER_01]: Going back to B&H, it's funny because I've worked in media production here in our city and one thing that the entire media production in New York City knows, even the ones who aren't Jewish, they know about Shabbat because the main place to go for an emergency piece of equipment that you need will not be open Friday night or Saturday and,
[01:47:49.400 --> 01:47:50.700] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that is well understood.
[01:47:50.980 --> 01:48:03.040] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I better believe, though, yeah, it'll be something I'm sure people working on AV or other aspects of the event will pop by during setup, during the week.
[01:48:03.380 --> 01:48:04.120] [SPEAKER_10]: That's why we set up on Thursday.
[01:48:04.300 --> 01:48:04.900] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, exactly.
[01:48:05.120 --> 01:48:10.860] [SPEAKER_07]: Wednesday, Thursday, when people are getting into town, they're like, oh, yeah, I might need that thing and I can get it here.
[01:48:11.060 --> 01:48:18.900] [SPEAKER_07]: And that was a recurring feature or amenity is having that right around the corner from Hotel Penn.
[01:48:19.200 --> 01:48:23.480] [SPEAKER_07]: So another familiar thing that we will be availing ourselves of.
[01:48:23.480 --> 01:48:24.600] [SPEAKER_10]: It's even closer now.
[01:48:24.840 --> 01:48:25.360] [SPEAKER_10]: It's even closer.
[01:48:25.660 --> 01:48:26.960] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, totally, totally.
[01:48:27.180 --> 01:48:40.920] [SPEAKER_07]: But those things are part of this that will be like kind of leaning leaning on stuff we hadn't had but is in actual recent memory for a lot of organizers, a lot of volunteers, a lot of attendees.
[01:48:42.040 --> 01:48:45.920] [SPEAKER_07]: So those are actually kind of comforts in my mind.
[01:48:46.340 --> 01:48:47.880] [SPEAKER_10]: 802-321-4225.
[01:48:48.080 --> 01:48:49.680] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to keep the phone lines open for a couple more minutes.
[01:48:49.680 --> 01:48:50.160] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's ready.
[01:48:50.260 --> 01:48:50.480] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:48:50.580 --> 01:48:53.780] [SPEAKER_10]: If anyone has anything else they'd like to say, please feel free.
[01:48:55.520 --> 01:48:59.320] [SPEAKER_10]: It's still going on in your neighborhood, whatever this calamity is.
[01:49:00.040 --> 01:49:08.160] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did Emmanuel, to find out what is going on, I reactivated my Citizen account.
[01:49:08.320 --> 01:49:09.040] [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you're happy.
[01:49:09.260 --> 01:49:09.680] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, honey.
[01:49:10.080 --> 01:49:10.880] [SPEAKER_10]: You know, stay in the light.
[01:49:11.020 --> 01:49:16.220] [SPEAKER_10]: That Citizen app is terrible because apparently people can use it to know where you are.
[01:49:16.400 --> 01:49:19.620] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't know this because I had it on and someone said, oh, you're in the city.
[01:49:19.740 --> 01:49:20.500] [SPEAKER_10]: What the f*ck?
[01:49:20.520 --> 01:49:21.520] [SPEAKER_10]: How do you know I'm in the city?
[01:49:21.680 --> 01:49:23.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Because the Citizen app was ratting me out.
[01:49:23.880 --> 01:49:26.360] [SPEAKER_10]: So I deleted it and I will never use it again.
[01:49:27.780 --> 01:49:33.940] [SPEAKER_00]: So it appears that there was a report of a smoke condition a couple blocks away.
[01:49:34.240 --> 01:49:35.620] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't find anything newer.
[01:49:38.980 --> 01:49:39.860] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for checking.
[01:49:40.460 --> 01:49:42.980] [SPEAKER_01]: For it to still be going on, what, two hours later?
[01:49:43.200 --> 01:49:49.560] [SPEAKER_00]: I would also like to mention that I'm going to be deleting Signal, not Signal, Citizen from my phone again right now.
[01:49:50.020 --> 01:49:50.100] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[01:49:50.360 --> 01:49:50.500] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[01:49:51.140 --> 01:49:52.320] [SPEAKER_01]: Can't happen too soon.
[01:49:53.060 --> 01:49:56.660] [SPEAKER_10]: Is that because of what I said or for another reason?
[01:49:56.920 --> 01:49:58.480] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's also always been garbage.
[01:49:58.480 --> 01:50:01.480] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the, you know, find out how racist your neighbors are app.
[01:50:01.900 --> 01:50:04.260] [SPEAKER_00]: Find out how racist and narky your neighbors are.
[01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:06.320] [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you need an app to find that out?
[01:50:06.400 --> 01:50:07.260] [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it's pretty obvious.
[01:50:09.260 --> 01:50:09.840] [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[01:50:09.920 --> 01:50:20.420] [SPEAKER_01]: But if someone in an apartment like W-whatever on, you know, some other floor of your building is quietly seething because people of color exist, you don't hear about it unless you're on the same app together.
[01:50:20.700 --> 01:50:21.120] [SPEAKER_10]: And...
[01:50:21.120 --> 01:50:22.340] [SPEAKER_10]: They give their apartment number out?
[01:50:23.820 --> 01:50:24.480] [SPEAKER_00]: Could be.
[01:50:24.480 --> 01:50:30.080] [SPEAKER_00]: And, fun fact, they now have a premium thing where you can...
[01:50:30.080 --> 01:50:33.680] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to pay them to look at old incident reports.
[01:50:34.080 --> 01:50:36.040] [SPEAKER_10]: Why would you need to look at old incident reports?
[01:50:36.320 --> 01:50:36.980] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[01:50:37.080 --> 01:50:40.040] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, like, a sinkhole appeared in the middle of the street two months ago.
[01:50:40.940 --> 01:50:43.680] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, hey, I wonder how this is.
[01:50:43.680 --> 01:50:46.480] [SPEAKER_00]: But you have to pay to find out about the sinkhole in the middle of the street.
[01:50:47.480 --> 01:50:48.260] [SPEAKER_00]: Citizen is bullshit.
[01:50:49.300 --> 01:50:51.660] [SPEAKER_00]: We can be good citizens without the Citizen app.
[01:50:51.820 --> 01:50:52.540] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I say.
[01:50:53.200 --> 01:50:53.540] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[01:50:53.820 --> 01:50:54.820] [SPEAKER_07]: Ooh, I like that takeaway.
[01:50:55.140 --> 01:50:56.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Same thing with netizens.
[01:50:56.940 --> 01:50:59.380] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, we have a phone call and this will probably be the last phone call.
[01:50:59.460 --> 01:50:59.700] [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[01:50:59.920 --> 01:51:01.260] [SPEAKER_10]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:51:01.400 --> 01:51:01.640] [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[01:51:03.220 --> 01:51:03.780] [SPEAKER_13]: Hi, yes.
[01:51:03.880 --> 01:51:04.960] [SPEAKER_13]: I just wanted to...
[01:51:04.960 --> 01:51:08.140] [SPEAKER_13]: You were talking about promoting the event, the Hope event.
[01:51:08.320 --> 01:51:08.540] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[01:51:09.340 --> 01:51:17.200] [SPEAKER_13]: Now, I wondered if you've considered, you know, there are, like, New York YouTube channels, like, New York-related YouTube channels.
[01:51:17.200 --> 01:51:21.100] [SPEAKER_13]: Have you considered, you know, approaching them to do some promotion of the event?
[01:51:22.600 --> 01:51:23.820] [SPEAKER_10]: What kind of YouTube channel?
[01:51:23.840 --> 01:51:24.620] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not familiar with them.
[01:51:26.220 --> 01:51:36.200] [SPEAKER_13]: Well, there's a lot of thousands of them, but basically, you know, for a small fee, and it's a very minuscule amount of money because I've used some of them, maybe $100, $150.
[01:51:37.300 --> 01:51:40.220] [SPEAKER_13]: They, like, run an ad, like, run ads for you on their YouTube channel.
[01:51:40.340 --> 01:51:45.180] [SPEAKER_13]: They have no use of subscribers and stuff like that, and they put the word out for your, you know, for the event.
[01:51:45.920 --> 01:51:46.280] [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[01:51:47.040 --> 01:51:52.760] [SPEAKER_10]: If you know of any specific ones, you know, shoot us an email or something, and we can look into that for sure.
[01:51:54.220 --> 01:51:59.840] [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, then I will do that, yeah, because there's a few of them that have the type of audience that would attend this event.
[01:52:00.580 --> 01:52:01.360] [SPEAKER_10]: That would be great.
[01:52:01.460 --> 01:52:03.800] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, just reaching people is the main challenge.
[01:52:05.240 --> 01:52:12.400] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, and the other thing I wanted to mention was I cut off my cable today, and I wondered if other people have done so.
[01:52:12.500 --> 01:52:14.060] [SPEAKER_13]: Like, I don't have any useful cable anymore.
[01:52:14.060 --> 01:52:19.080] [SPEAKER_13]: I just use the apps, and I just wondered if other people still have cable TV.
[01:52:19.460 --> 01:52:21.280] [SPEAKER_13]: Like, is that still a thing?
[01:52:21.440 --> 01:52:22.420] [SPEAKER_13]: Do people still have cable?
[01:52:22.580 --> 01:52:26.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, people do, but more people are cutting the cord, as it were.
[01:52:26.560 --> 01:52:33.840] [SPEAKER_10]: But the thing is, you know, you're using streaming services, I imagine, in place, and they add up, too.
[01:52:34.060 --> 01:52:40.380] [SPEAKER_10]: And before long, you're spending the same amount on the streaming services, and you're not getting local TV anymore.
[01:52:42.200 --> 01:52:43.180] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's the thing.
[01:52:43.260 --> 01:52:49.860] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, local TV, you don't get local TV, but everything else, pretty much, you know, I find a little use for it.
[01:52:49.960 --> 01:52:53.980] [SPEAKER_13]: And I always wondered if other people still have, you know, people still have cable TV.
[01:52:54.340 --> 01:52:56.060] [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, it's kind of going out just like the phones.
[01:52:56.180 --> 01:52:56.920] [SPEAKER_13]: It's like the landlines.
[01:52:57.180 --> 01:52:57.480] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[01:52:57.840 --> 01:52:58.180] [SPEAKER_13]: You know?
[01:52:58.880 --> 01:52:59.420] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:53:00.580 --> 01:53:02.080] [SPEAKER_07]: You're absolutely right with that.
[01:53:02.260 --> 01:53:14.560] [SPEAKER_07]: And I would say the one other thing you could try, and I can't say it's great, but over-the-air TV is still worth having if you are removing cable and want some kind of local feel.
[01:53:14.820 --> 01:53:24.860] [SPEAKER_07]: It would be a lot better, local channels, it would be a lot more desirable and maybe a lot harder to cut ties with if there were less ads in it.
[01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:25.280] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[01:53:25.280 --> 01:53:36.280] [SPEAKER_07]: The local information, local content, it's great, but it's been supplanted by like even the very channels you're describing or recommending we check out.
[01:53:37.780 --> 01:53:40.200] [SPEAKER_07]: But over-the-air is compelling too.
[01:53:40.400 --> 01:53:51.040] [SPEAKER_07]: You can get public TV and get other, some good programming that's not, as I had said about local channels on cable subscriptions, chock full of ads.
[01:53:51.380 --> 01:53:52.320] [SPEAKER_07]: You still get it.
[01:53:52.320 --> 01:53:56.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Oftentimes you can find a channel over-the-air that you can't find anywhere else.
[01:53:56.780 --> 01:54:05.460] [SPEAKER_10]: It's not on cable, it's not on satellite, and that's why it's worth it for everybody to get an over-the-air antenna and just, you know, see what's available to you.
[01:54:05.600 --> 01:54:11.960] [SPEAKER_10]: It's nothing like, you know, it used to be with analog TV where you could get all kinds of distant channels and a lot of local ones.
[01:54:12.280 --> 01:54:19.880] [SPEAKER_10]: The signals are a lot weaker, they're a lot more restricted, but you can still find some interesting things sometimes and of course it's free.
[01:54:20.080 --> 01:54:40.460] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we got an updated box and wired it up with a very, very old, like, flat square panel and I can get pretty good, you know, pretty good stations from a distance and, you know, it's all based on where you are and the reception and kind of orientation.
[01:54:40.460 --> 01:54:41.620] [SPEAKER_07]: You got to play around with it.
[01:54:41.720 --> 01:54:47.520] [SPEAKER_07]: I suspect, and I've looked at this as well, there are much better digital antennas.
[01:54:47.660 --> 01:54:59.580] [SPEAKER_07]: I know people that only use that, don't have streaming, don't have anything else, but they are fanatical about over-the-air digital and have really elaborate antenna setups and swear by it.
[01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:02.740] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, they love it and ads and all.
[01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:18.800] [SPEAKER_07]: But, if you've lost that with just streaming stuff, you could experiment with what is being broadcast digitally and fill in is all I'm suggesting.
[01:55:18.800 --> 01:55:20.140] [SPEAKER_07]: because it's fun to play around with.
[01:55:20.160 --> 01:55:25.300] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a good backup setup too if you want to get emergency information.
[01:55:26.820 --> 01:55:40.920] [SPEAKER_07]: Not that it, you know, won't be susceptible, but it's a step up or a sidestep from AM radio in an emergency if you need to get information and streaming sites, of course, aren't going to be localized enough for that.
[01:55:42.900 --> 01:55:43.300] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[01:55:43.820 --> 01:55:46.340] [SPEAKER_13]: And I have another question, an unrelated question.
[01:55:46.560 --> 01:55:49.740] [SPEAKER_13]: There's an old show that used to air on WBAI.
[01:55:49.880 --> 01:55:51.180] [SPEAKER_13]: It's called The Computer Show.
[01:55:51.440 --> 01:55:52.880] [SPEAKER_13]: Do you know if it still airs anywhere?
[01:55:53.080 --> 01:55:54.460] [SPEAKER_10]: The Personal Computer Show.
[01:55:54.560 --> 01:55:58.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that used to be on right before us and sometimes right after us.
[01:55:58.860 --> 01:56:03.940] [SPEAKER_10]: And they were canceled a number of years ago, but I know they were on a different network online.
[01:56:04.080 --> 01:56:06.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Gila, do you happen to know what network they were on?
[01:56:07.280 --> 01:56:11.280] [SPEAKER_00]: They're now a good old-fashioned podcast.
[01:56:12.020 --> 01:56:16.180] [SPEAKER_00]: Found them on Podbean with today's episode.
[01:56:17.040 --> 01:56:18.100] [SPEAKER_00]: They were on today.
[01:56:18.360 --> 01:56:18.900] [SPEAKER_10]: They were on today.
[01:56:19.240 --> 01:56:21.100] [SPEAKER_00]: They were on, in fact, today.
[01:56:22.360 --> 01:56:28.260] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, they've still been dropping Wednesday at 6 p.m., which is, you know, the time they historically had on B.A.I.
[01:56:28.300 --> 01:56:30.500] [SPEAKER_10]: that's earlier than they were on B.A.I.
[01:56:30.500 --> 01:56:31.760] [SPEAKER_10]: I think they're getting a little earlier.
[01:56:32.360 --> 01:56:35.620] [SPEAKER_10]: They were, I think, seven or eight or nine.
[01:56:37.260 --> 01:56:38.640] [SPEAKER_01]: They moved around a little bit.
[01:56:38.780 --> 01:56:39.860] [SPEAKER_01]: They were before us for a while.
[01:56:39.980 --> 01:56:41.540] [SPEAKER_01]: They were after us for most of the time, I think.
[01:56:41.940 --> 01:56:43.960] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, apparently, they were streaming...
[01:56:43.960 --> 01:56:44.580] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the name of the podcast?
[01:56:45.580 --> 01:56:46.280] [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry, go ahead.
[01:56:47.620 --> 01:56:49.880] [SPEAKER_13]: I was just wondering what the name of the podcast is.
[01:56:50.020 --> 01:56:51.000] [SPEAKER_08]: What's the name of the podcast?
[01:56:51.460 --> 01:56:52.960] [SPEAKER_08]: It's the Personal Computer Show.
[01:56:53.180 --> 01:56:53.960] [SPEAKER_08]: Same name.
[01:56:54.320 --> 01:56:54.820] [SPEAKER_00]: Same thing.
[01:56:55.200 --> 01:56:59.840] [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, also, they can be found on PRN.
[01:57:01.020 --> 01:57:05.400] [SPEAKER_07]: That was the original switch I thought they made from B.A.I.
[01:57:05.620 --> 01:57:06.900] [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't know they were still on there.
[01:57:09.380 --> 01:57:14.580] [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, they've got a lot of people who used to be on W.A.I.
[01:57:15.440 --> 01:57:18.420] [SPEAKER_07]: There was an exodus.
[01:57:18.960 --> 01:57:19.060] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[01:57:19.700 --> 01:57:20.020] [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[01:57:21.440 --> 01:57:22.760] [SPEAKER_10]: I hope that answers your question.
[01:57:24.060 --> 01:57:25.200] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that is definitely.
[01:57:25.420 --> 01:57:26.060] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
[01:57:26.200 --> 01:57:26.360] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[01:57:26.360 --> 01:57:33.440] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and if you're interested in them, go to pcradioshow.org online and get in touch with them.
[01:57:33.700 --> 01:57:37.680] [SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, you've got all the info on there about who makes it, who's around.
[01:57:40.400 --> 01:57:41.680] [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, I will do that.
[01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:42.580] [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[01:57:42.660 --> 01:57:43.300] [SPEAKER_13]: Y'all have a good night.
[01:57:43.440 --> 01:57:44.020] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, take care.
[01:57:44.400 --> 01:57:44.780] [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.
[01:57:45.100 --> 01:57:47.100] [SPEAKER_10]: And that's going to be our last call for tonight.
[01:57:47.820 --> 01:57:48.940] [SPEAKER_10]: Are you okay over there?
[01:57:51.020 --> 01:57:51.420] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[01:57:51.680 --> 01:57:52.140] [SPEAKER_10]: We're recovering.
[01:57:52.140 --> 01:57:53.020] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry.
[01:57:53.360 --> 01:57:53.600] [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
[01:57:55.940 --> 01:58:00.040] [SPEAKER_10]: oth@2600.com is our email address for anyone who wants to write to us.
[01:58:01.780 --> 01:58:04.380] [SPEAKER_10]: I guess we're we're done for the night, right?
[01:58:05.520 --> 01:58:09.640] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is, this has been a good night, a good evening, a good hour, a good two hours.
[01:58:09.840 --> 01:58:10.840] [SPEAKER_10]: By the way, I got a text.
[01:58:11.940 --> 01:58:15.520] [SPEAKER_10]: Alex is not auditioning for Survivor.
[01:58:16.580 --> 01:58:18.160] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry about the misunderstanding.
[01:58:19.400 --> 01:58:25.020] [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm sorry to the people of Survivor that are apparently very upset at that that inference.
[01:58:25.260 --> 01:58:26.380] [SPEAKER_07]: He would have done well, I think.
[01:58:26.540 --> 01:58:27.060] [SPEAKER_07]: I think so.
[01:58:27.260 --> 01:58:27.840] [SPEAKER_07]: I think so.
[01:58:28.520 --> 01:58:34.060] [SPEAKER_07]: Just, there's so many pluses, you know, in his favor for that.
[01:58:34.080 --> 01:58:36.320] [SPEAKER_10]: Doesn't have to do it Wednesday at 7pm, though.
[01:58:36.540 --> 01:58:36.680] [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[01:58:37.940 --> 01:58:41.760] [SPEAKER_01]: Would have been a stepping stone on his way to his dream of being on road rules.
[01:58:42.200 --> 01:58:43.460] [SPEAKER_10]: Oh boy, that is the dream.
[01:58:43.640 --> 01:58:46.580] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you're on road rules, apparently you can become the Secretary of Transportation.
[01:58:48.460 --> 01:58:49.380] [SPEAKER_10]: All right, enough.
[01:58:50.880 --> 01:58:52.600] [SPEAKER_10]: oth@2600.com.
[01:58:52.760 --> 01:58:57.380] [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be back on WBAI next Wednesday at 7pm and here on YouTube at 8pm.
[01:58:58.120 --> 01:59:02.040] [SPEAKER_10]: And more info on Hope.net for the Hope Conference.
[01:59:02.040 --> 01:59:05.920] [SPEAKER_10]: Please get involved and get your tickets while you can.
[01:59:06.140 --> 01:59:07.200] [SPEAKER_10]: Get your hotel room.
[01:59:07.400 --> 01:59:08.380] [SPEAKER_10]: Spread the word.
[01:59:08.580 --> 01:59:09.300] [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to be awesome.
[01:59:09.500 --> 01:59:14.000] [SPEAKER_10]: And we should have some news about speakers in the next week or two.
[01:59:14.560 --> 01:59:16.680] [SPEAKER_10]: and we look forward to seeing all of you.
[01:59:17.200 --> 01:59:17.600] [SPEAKER_10]: Awesome.
[01:59:18.200 --> 01:59:18.440] [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[01:59:19.060 --> 01:59:19.360] [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.