Off The Hook - 2026-07-29

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[02:27.560 --> 02:30.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:30.560 --> 02:31.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: The program is Off The Hook.
[02:32.060 --> 02:34.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:35.100 --> 02:36.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Joined tonight by Kyle.
[02:37.100 --> 02:38.260]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Hello, Kyle, right here.
[02:38.320 --> 02:40.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: And out in Signal-land, we have Rob T. Firefly.
[02:42.020 --> 02:42.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: Good evening.
[02:43.100 --> 02:43.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have Gila.
[02:44.300 --> 02:45.040]  [GILADRAZEN]: You do indeed.
[02:45.040 --> 02:45.620]  [GILADRAZEN]: Good evening.
[02:45.780 --> 02:47.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we have Alex.
[02:48.160 --> 02:48.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: You do.
[02:49.140 --> 02:49.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: Hello.
[02:50.040 --> 02:51.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I'm sorry.
[02:51.760 --> 02:55.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: If people could see what we go through to get on the air here, it's simply unbelievable.
[02:56.320 --> 02:57.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: But we made it.
[02:57.840 --> 02:58.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the important thing.
[02:58.920 --> 03:05.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: And programming note, next week we will be doing our call-in program here on WBAI.
[03:05.320 --> 03:08.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: So get your telephones ready for that adventure.
[03:08.280 --> 03:14.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you can't wait, we're on Overtime tonight at 8 o'clock on YouTube on Channel2600.
[03:14.440 --> 03:16.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we take phone calls there as well.
[03:16.780 --> 03:19.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's not as much fun as when you call and you're on the radio.
[03:20.800 --> 03:23.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: So interesting day today.
[03:23.260 --> 03:25.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kind of a scary day, I think.
[03:25.920 --> 03:27.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if you guys have been following the news at all.
[03:28.580 --> 03:32.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: But there was this hearing in Washington, D.C.
[03:33.320 --> 03:41.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, well, I guess really the only way to sum it up is to play a brief excerpt of it.
[03:41.340 --> 03:43.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Would you like to hear a little bit of the hearing today?
[03:44.290 --> 03:44.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: Sure thing.
[03:45.100 --> 03:45.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[03:46.780 --> 03:53.960]  [TONY_FAUCI]: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.
[03:55.440 --> 04:07.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's Dr. Anthony Fauci testifying before a bunch of rabid Republicans who are, basically, they've got the tiki torches out and everything.
[04:08.980 --> 04:11.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this guy would not give them anything.
[04:11.940 --> 04:13.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, it's interesting.
[04:13.300 --> 04:16.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: He did this over a hundred times.
[04:17.020 --> 04:17.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Over a hundred times.
[04:17.920 --> 04:21.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, you can hear him kind of getting a little weaker.
[04:21.920 --> 04:27.040]  [TONY_FAUCI]: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.
[04:27.040 --> 04:28.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was about 50 times in.
[04:30.020 --> 04:33.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: They want to put him in jail.
[04:33.580 --> 04:44.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: They want to prosecute him for everything that happened with COVID, whether it is the origination of COVID, whether it's the restrictions that came about because of COVID.
[04:46.650 --> 04:56.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: And many of these are people that do not believe in vaccinations, that believe, I don't know what they believe, to be honest, but they want to scapegoat.
[04:56.600 --> 05:04.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I wanted to ask you, Alex, you know, when I saw this on the news this morning, it seemed bad.
[05:04.900 --> 05:16.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: It just seems bad, I think, to the average person, which is all I am, when you see somebody constantly saying they're pleading the Fifth to protect themselves.
[05:16.080 --> 05:17.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: It sounds like they're guilty of something.
[05:18.380 --> 05:21.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Fauci did this over a hundred times today.
[05:21.170 --> 05:31.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the media, including, you know, the so-called left media, is basically portraying it that way, like he was covering something up.
[05:31.980 --> 05:40.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: And in actuality, it's a strategy to shut these people up, to shut them down, actually.
[05:40.140 --> 05:51.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because they basically want this 85-year-old guy to slip up and say something that they can get him on and throw him in jail.
[05:51.960 --> 05:55.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because I still don't know why they hate him so much.
[05:56.900 --> 06:02.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: It really, we can analyze this for hours and still not reach any kind of a conclusion.
[06:04.600 --> 06:10.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I realize that was a tough strategy, but it was a smart strategy.
[06:10.940 --> 06:14.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I'm wondering, Alex, do you think that was a good strategy to do that?
[06:14.980 --> 06:25.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: When you are facing a room full of people that are out for your neck, and you have the Fifth, the Fifth Amendment, do you use it in this way?
[06:25.940 --> 06:32.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Even if you're as innocent as the pure snow, you know, do you repeatedly...
[06:32.780 --> 06:37.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, basically, they asked him, do you see this red book in front of you?
[06:37.440 --> 06:39.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: And he took the Fifth on that as well.
[06:39.520 --> 06:41.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: He would not give them anything.
[06:41.940 --> 06:47.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: At one point, they threw his lawyer out of the room, because they didn't like the way he was actually...
[06:48.430 --> 06:52.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, he wasn't allowed to speak, apparently, or even sit at the table.
[06:52.120 --> 06:55.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was really, really scary to watch this.
[06:55.580 --> 06:58.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: It really was, because you realize these people have power.
[06:58.440 --> 07:04.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: They have a lot of power, and they have a lot of hatred, and they know how to manipulate people.
[07:05.660 --> 07:06.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Your thoughts?
[07:07.540 --> 07:07.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[07:08.260 --> 07:10.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, the Fifth Amendment, it's a powerful tool.
[07:11.260 --> 07:13.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's kind of like a Leatherman, you know?
[07:13.120 --> 07:18.320]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's like the all-in-one tool against self-incrimination in many ways.
[07:19.060 --> 07:26.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: I don't think repeatedly invoking the Fifth Amendment is, in and of itself, inherently bad.
[07:26.400 --> 07:41.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's probably the legally safest maneuver when somebody's testimony could create criminal exposure for that particular person, which, in a room full of rabid senators looking to hang you out dry, it's definitely the legally safest move.
[07:41.420 --> 07:51.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, the downside to it, though, is that it looks evasive, it looks political, it looks very strategic, and it certainly invites suspicion.
[07:51.760 --> 08:05.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think in some contexts, perhaps this one as well, though I didn't watch the hearing myself, I would imagine that it would trigger a fight over whether the privilege under the Fifth Amendment is actually available to Fauci, right?
[08:05.540 --> 08:11.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because it protects a person from being forced to give testimony that would actually incriminate them, right?
[08:11.900 --> 08:20.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, the protection can be used question by question, but it can be abused as well, and it can be overused.
[08:20.460 --> 08:32.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so, I think, you know, critics are certainly going to think that the witness is something to hide, Fauci has something to hide here, there's going to be social judgment, but that social judgment is not a legal conclusion.
[08:33.780 --> 08:40.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: And legal judgment and legal liability is what the Fifth Amendment is supposed to shield people from, with respect to self-incrimination.
[08:40.950 --> 08:43.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, I think Fauci did the right thing here, to be honest.
[08:43.960 --> 08:44.690]  [ROBVINCENT]: Go ahead, Rob.
[08:45.540 --> 08:45.980]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[08:46.100 --> 08:52.920]  [ROBVINCENT]: Am I correct in thinking, basically, there is nothing that he could have said that would have served him and not served the people out to get him?
[08:53.020 --> 08:56.380]  [ROBVINCENT]: Like, they could have taken anything he said, manipulated it any which way.
[08:56.690 --> 09:03.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: And so, this was literally kind of the only choice he had, was to say, I'm not giving you anything, you're not going to do anything with this.
[09:04.070 --> 09:04.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[09:04.540 --> 09:13.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, if he had answered a few questions with the Fifth, and answered other questions, then I would have thought it was evasive.
[09:13.220 --> 09:14.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then I would have thought he was trying to hide something.
[09:15.310 --> 09:27.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: But when he wouldn't even answer that, you know, the red book was in front of him, without saying he's taking the Fifth, it was basically a big middle finger to these people, saying, I'm not giving you a damn thing, and I am not afraid of you.
[09:27.860 --> 09:28.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila.
[09:28.500 --> 09:34.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: And also to say that if he answered the questions, they would take all of his answers out of context.
[09:34.330 --> 09:36.460]  [GILADRAZEN]: They would hold whatever answers he gave against him.
[09:36.600 --> 09:39.400]  [GILADRAZEN]: If he didn't answer them, they would hold him in contempt of Congress.
[09:40.280 --> 09:43.620]  [GILADRAZEN]: This was threading the needle, I think, very carefully.
[09:44.710 --> 09:45.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[09:45.710 --> 09:53.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: I've given depositions, and you become aware very quickly how you can be manipulated.
[09:53.640 --> 10:07.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you make even a casual aside, like, boy, it sure was hot that day, you know, they will just keep driving until they get something out of you that is just slightly off or wrong or contradictory.
[10:07.980 --> 10:09.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's their job.
[10:09.760 --> 10:12.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: That is what they are there to do.
[10:12.540 --> 10:31.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's kind of sickening to see this being done to a scientist, somebody who was doing the best they could at a very stressful time for everybody, and to expect somebody to know all the answers when nobody knew what was going on back in 2000.
[10:32.220 --> 10:43.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's just, you know, it's just, you realize how incredibly petty these people are, and many of them are the same ones who were minimizing what COVID actually was.
[10:44.000 --> 10:46.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, you can't have it both ways.
[10:46.380 --> 10:50.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can't accuse the guy of somehow being responsible for COVID.
[10:50.240 --> 10:55.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, what are the odds that we've got the guy responsible for COVID right in that room?
[10:55.260 --> 10:58.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Something that, you know, affected the entire world.
[10:58.660 --> 11:00.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: But this is the guy.
[11:00.540 --> 11:04.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: This guy, and apparently all of China, conspired.
[11:04.740 --> 11:16.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: But also, he's guilty of overreacting to COVID by having our kids stay out of school and making us wear masks and not go to baseball games and things like that.
[11:17.280 --> 11:20.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, basically, they're throwing things at the wall, seeing what sticks.
[11:21.540 --> 11:33.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's a good warning to all of us, because we may very well all find ourselves in some kind of legal issues, legal troubles, where we have to face something like that.
[11:34.220 --> 11:43.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this is a great demonstration, a great demonstration for any law class, for any elementary school, I think, of what the Fifth Amendment is there to protect.
[11:44.160 --> 11:50.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's there to protect you from a mob of people like we saw today, sitting in the Senate chairs.
[11:51.840 --> 11:52.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Really, really scary.
[11:53.080 --> 11:53.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob?
[11:54.820 --> 12:00.820]  [ROBVINCENT]: And there's an amusing example of how far they'll go, even when you don't give them anything.
[12:01.060 --> 12:11.640]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'm looking at a piece on HuffPost where the headline in, you know, big imposing letters is, body language experts reveal the key cues they spotted in Fauci's testimony.
[12:12.100 --> 12:17.220]  [ROBVINCENT]: And so, they're reading whatever they can into this and getting whatever signals they can out of this.
[12:18.300 --> 12:20.740]  [ROBVINCENT]: You know, no spoilers if you haven't read the article yet.
[12:20.900 --> 12:27.480]  [ROBVINCENT]: But they just, they get an entire piece out of what they think he's saying with his body language.
[12:28.140 --> 12:33.080]  [ROBVINCENT]: And it's, yeah, I'm actually a bit entertained by this while also feeling really bad for this guy.
[12:34.020 --> 12:34.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[12:34.300 --> 12:39.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, the fact that they would do that, I mean, Huffington Post, aren't they one of the ones that are accused of, you know, being left leaning?
[12:41.500 --> 12:46.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And here they are trying to find the guy, find something on the guy just for saying the fifth over and over again.
[12:46.760 --> 12:51.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, you know, to me, body language seemed a little pissed off, seemed a little impatient.
[12:53.160 --> 12:54.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Didn't really want to be there.
[12:55.580 --> 12:59.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's just, I don't know, read the body language of the senators.
[12:59.980 --> 13:02.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's where I think you'll really find something interesting.
[13:02.560 --> 13:20.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the conversational tone of Dr. Rand Paul, who's trying to explain how medicine works, because, well, at least he's talking, at least he's explaining things to people, trying to, you know, connect to the American public as somebody they can identify with.
[13:20.220 --> 13:26.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this guy, this, this evil scientist, he is the person that we have to string up someplace.
[13:27.120 --> 13:30.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, it's, it really was frightening to see.
[13:30.720 --> 13:31.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Alex.
[13:32.640 --> 13:44.360]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think the real fight here, or the real issue with respect to the Fifth Amendment isn't, isn't whether he invoked it too many times, but as to whether he actually had the right to invoke it at all.
[13:45.180 --> 13:55.360]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because don't forget, he did receive a preemptive presidential part, because Biden knew that there was going to be obviously a witch hunt with respect to Fauci.
[13:56.080 --> 14:16.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: So the pardon is where I think this can actually get really complicated from a Fifth Amendment perspective, because if he was subject to a valid federal pardon, that then arguably would have eliminated risk of any criminal prosecution that could have arisen from his testimony today,
[14:16.180 --> 14:22.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: or, or any criminal prosecution for the pardon conduct that he received.
[14:23.200 --> 14:35.280]  [ALEXURBELS]: And then that can really weaken his ability to invoke the Fifth Amendment privilege with respect to any questions that implicate that already pardoned conduct.
[14:35.280 --> 14:41.020]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because that means that he was not in jeopardy of any type of criminal prosecution through self-incrimination.
[14:41.340 --> 14:49.280]  [ALEXURBELS]: And therefore, the Fifth Amendment wouldn't necessarily apply in the context of somebody who's already pardoned for that criminal activity.
[14:49.460 --> 14:58.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, they could be investigating that that might protect him against plotting and scheming with China to start COVID or whatever it is they're trying to accuse him of.
[14:59.040 --> 15:06.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it wouldn't it wouldn't protect him against anything beyond January 2025, when he received the pardon.
[15:06.540 --> 15:15.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that would include today, anything he said that was contradictory, or that could be said to be not the truth.
[15:16.080 --> 15:20.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, it's really easy to find somebody saying something that is not the truth.
[15:20.820 --> 15:27.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: I bet I could find each of you here saying something not completely truthful in the next 45 minutes.
[15:28.040 --> 15:29.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not hard to do.
[15:29.480 --> 15:32.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that they would have gone after him, they would have imprisoned him.
[15:32.420 --> 15:34.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that is why he bled the Fifth every time.
[15:36.520 --> 15:37.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, sure.
[15:37.920 --> 15:44.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: But to be fair, if somebody is compelled to testify before Congress, you can't just take the Fifth and decide not to testify, right?
[15:44.720 --> 15:45.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: You have to have some kind of...
[15:45.740 --> 15:47.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Apparently, you can, because he did just that.
[15:48.520 --> 15:49.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: He did.
[15:49.260 --> 15:50.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: He did do just that.
[15:50.620 --> 15:50.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: Right.
[15:50.880 --> 15:54.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so that the issue, though, is about, you know, is he properly invoking the Fifth Amendment?
[15:55.060 --> 15:57.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because he was pardoned.
[15:57.220 --> 15:58.700]  [ALEXURBELS]: There was already a pardon, right?
[15:58.780 --> 16:03.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: So if he wasn't facing any kind of criminal exposure, then arguably...
[16:03.100 --> 16:03.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: Of course he was.
[16:04.160 --> 16:08.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Today, he's facing criminal... I mean, basically, they want to try him for something.
[16:08.900 --> 16:10.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: They want to find something on him.
[16:10.780 --> 16:13.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And whatever he says today, they will find something.
[16:14.060 --> 16:14.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: Right.
[16:14.840 --> 16:29.920]  [ALEXURBELS]: But for those aspects over which he was questioned, for which a pardon already applies, it's hard to argue then that the Fifth Amendment would allow you to withhold any testimony if you are not incriminating yourself.
[16:29.940 --> 16:35.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because the Fifth Amendment only applies when you're going to incriminate yourself and put yourself in legal jeopardy.
[16:35.220 --> 16:39.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: They will find something contradictory in what he would have said today.
[16:39.600 --> 16:42.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then they would have accused him of lying in front of Congress.
[16:42.720 --> 16:43.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's a crime.
[16:43.800 --> 16:45.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: They would have found something, Alex.
[16:45.540 --> 16:46.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know they would have.
[16:46.540 --> 16:55.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, Emmanuel, if you or Rob or I or Kilo or Kyle are compelled to go and testify in front of Congress for something, we have to give testimony.
[16:55.800 --> 17:01.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: We can't just stonewall them and say Fifth Amendment, Fifth Amendment, Fifth Amendment, when they're asking about... I mean, it's improper invocation.
[17:01.960 --> 17:07.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: We can't just stonewall them and misuse the Fifth Amendment if there's no real legal jeopardy here.
[17:07.730 --> 17:14.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I think he's going to get away with it because it's very clear that the Republicans want to hang him out to dry.
[17:14.640 --> 17:24.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, they want to... you know, they've been angling for this guy for so long that there is some potential for, I would guess, a criminal investigation somewhere.
[17:24.640 --> 17:28.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I do think that this pardon is going to complicate things.
[17:28.990 --> 17:32.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think we may see legal action related to it as well.
[17:33.060 --> 17:33.600]  [ROBVINCENT]: Go ahead, Rob.
[17:34.180 --> 17:36.490]  [ROBVINCENT]: Well, it's going to shake out in about a week.
[17:36.820 --> 17:38.490]  [ROBVINCENT]: Rand Paul called for a vote.
[17:38.730 --> 17:47.160]  [ROBVINCENT]: So the committee is going to vote Wednesday, the 5th, to see... the 5th, actually, which is funny, to see if they want to hold him in contempt.
[17:47.770 --> 17:52.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I already hold them in contempt and I can hardly wait to cast my vote.
[17:52.230 --> 17:58.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: So hopefully we see some justice at some point against this craziness.
[17:59.340 --> 18:03.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, think of all the things that these people are getting away with.
[18:03.530 --> 18:19.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Think of all the money that's being stolen, all the institutions that are being decimated, all the vandalism that's happening, all the fear that's being instilled, all the people that are being prosecuted for nothing, people being killed in the streets.
[18:20.900 --> 18:24.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: At some point, at some point, there has to be justice for that.
[18:24.800 --> 18:29.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this is nonsense to be even talking about this.
[18:29.990 --> 18:32.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it is a very important civics lesson.
[18:32.470 --> 18:35.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's why, you know, we're devoting a few minutes to this.
[18:35.700 --> 18:36.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: But there's another case.
[18:37.080 --> 18:48.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's another case that I think is even closer to home as far as something involving the hacker community or just people that value freedom of speech and freedom in general.
[18:54.440 --> 19:07.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that is the story of a U.S. citizen who is traveling and was basically stopped by Customs and Border Patrol in Atlanta for some reason.
[19:07.620 --> 19:09.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: I guess maybe he was coming back into the country there.
[19:09.400 --> 19:26.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and, um, they asked or demanded that he, um, enter his password into his phone so that they could basically look at everything in his phone, steal everything, you know, copy everything, whatever you want to call it.
[19:27.540 --> 19:32.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: And he gave them a password and the password wiped out every bit of data.
[19:33.030 --> 19:35.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's what I've always wanted to do.
[19:35.620 --> 19:38.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just, I just don't have something like that.
[19:38.140 --> 19:42.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: But now, you know, thanks to this story, I know a lot more about how to get this.
[19:42.640 --> 19:43.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, yeah.
[19:43.480 --> 19:48.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: So federal prosecutors in Atlanta are bringing an obstruction charge against a U.S. citizen who gave Customs officers what is known as a duress passcode.
[19:52.790 --> 19:56.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, that activated software that erased the contents of his phone.
[19:57.460 --> 20:00.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, Samuel Tunick is an Atlanta resident.
[20:00.420 --> 20:12.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, he was stopped for interrogation at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport as he returned, uh, to the United States, uh, on... actually, this is January 24th of last year.
[20:13.080 --> 20:16.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know why we're finding out about this now, but it's, it's made all the news now.
[20:17.000 --> 20:18.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: But yeah, it was over a year ago.
[20:18.540 --> 20:23.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and this is according to a November grand jury indictment that we're also just finding out about.
[20:23.820 --> 20:27.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, the authorities seized his phone before allowing him to enter the country.
[20:28.340 --> 20:32.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, a hearing on the case was held last week in federal court in Atlanta.
[20:32.600 --> 20:33.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I guess that's when everything became public.
[20:34.140 --> 20:45.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, the prosecution is one of the earliest known instances of federal authorities charging a person with destroying evidence with a program designed to wipe a device when a specific code is entered.
[20:45.600 --> 21:00.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: His lawyers argue during the hearing that the seizure was unlawful, that he was targeted because of his political activism against Atlanta's plan to build a police and fire training center, uh, within a 1,000 acre, uh, stretch of urban woodland.
[21:00.530 --> 21:08.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, opponents argue that the center known as cop city would militarize officers and destroy precious green space.
[21:09.160 --> 21:22.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: The federal statute underlying the charge makes it a felony to destroy evidence or transfer assets to keep the government from seizing them or to tip someone off about an upcoming search or wiretap.
[21:22.140 --> 21:25.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: It carries a penalty of up to five years in federal prison, a fine or both.
[21:25.340 --> 21:28.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, the act applies before, during, or after a search.
[21:28.500 --> 21:37.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: If the target of an investigation knows that a search or seizure is imminent and that person acts to thwart it, he or she would fall under the statute, according to experts.
[21:37.980 --> 21:49.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, the federal public defender's office, which handles most cases in the Northern district of Georgia, said that only one other federal indictment had been filed on this charge in the last 30 years.
[21:49.580 --> 21:54.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, the 2019 case involved an accusation of destruction of evidence related to drug trafficking.
[21:55.440 --> 21:59.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, and you know, that's kind of a difference right there because you're pointing to something.
[21:59.840 --> 22:01.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're pointing to a crime, drug trafficking.
[22:01.680 --> 22:02.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's a crime.
[22:02.660 --> 22:17.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Here, the crime is protecting one's privacy and refusing to allow these authorities, quote unquote, to, uh, grab your phone and just read whatever they feel like reading off of it, even when it's password protected.
[22:17.960 --> 22:23.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: And when you don't give them the password or you give them another password, they asked for a password.
[22:23.820 --> 22:24.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: He gave them a password.
[22:24.740 --> 22:25.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I don't know what the problem is.
[22:25.940 --> 22:33.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, but he basically, um, uh, protected his, his own interests as I believe he has every right to do.
[22:33.660 --> 22:33.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle.
[22:34.480 --> 22:34.700]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[22:34.760 --> 22:42.900]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I, I questioned the validity of it in that, um, the obstruction charge for something where you don't have credible evidence or probable cause.
[22:43.080 --> 22:46.440]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like there's that a crime itself is taking place.
[22:46.640 --> 22:57.660]  [KYLEDROSDK]: This sort of random screening thing that they're trying to condition people to accept seems to be in a limbo because you have a right to your, uh, personal effects.
[22:57.860 --> 23:17.680]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, and I think it, it would a counter poise to it would be that it's instructing his, uh, um, ability to freely assemble and organize and, um, and, um, um, register grievances, uh, of their own regarding this, this project of public interest.
[23:17.880 --> 23:42.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So it doesn't seem like they're really, I mean, obstructing what crime or what, with what evidence did they have, um, that he, um, couldn't protect himself because he had his own inherent rights under the assumption that he's innocent until proven otherwise.
[23:42.760 --> 23:47.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I think their argument would be that he ruined the whole thing because now they, they can't prove the crime.
[23:47.900 --> 23:48.340]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Right.
[23:48.440 --> 23:51.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the other part of it is they were looking forward to that and he, he, he just ruined it.
[23:52.100 --> 23:57.520]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The other part of it is it's, um, it's such a, a catchall for so much information.
[23:58.160 --> 24:15.920]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's not, um, like a subpoena or something or, or like, uh, something that's a, a specific piece of information that you would get, like in some of the cases we've talked about with metadata and other, um, parts of people's personal identifiable information.
[24:16.260 --> 24:29.380]  [KYLEDROSDK]: This is like a comprehensive store of things, um, in every facet of someone's life, personal conversations, contacts, phone calls, uh, banking, any kind of, uh, web traffic, all of that.
[24:29.540 --> 24:48.900]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And it itself, um, may, uh, grant them far too much access, especially when you don't have an actual crime or an actual, um, uh, transgression that would warrant the authority that they're trying to wield.
[24:49.180 --> 24:50.600]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Does that make sense?
[24:50.760 --> 24:53.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Am I wrong in any part of that?
[24:53.400 --> 24:55.840]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I, I'm sure I'll be told.
[24:56.160 --> 24:57.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, to me, it makes sense.
[24:57.340 --> 24:58.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: It makes, it makes sense because...
[24:58.840 --> 25:00.380]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It gets even more protected.
[25:00.720 --> 25:03.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm looking at it from an individualistic point of view.
[25:03.400 --> 25:09.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, if you look at it from law enforcement's point of view, they want to pursue their case.
[25:09.380 --> 25:11.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: And when you get in the way of that, you're the problem.
[25:12.060 --> 25:22.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: What they fail to understand is that individuals have their own interests and they wish to protect themselves and, uh, they have the right to protect themselves.
[25:22.520 --> 25:27.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now I know a lot of people are saying, well, this guy violated the law because they're entitled to look at your phone.
[25:28.240 --> 25:30.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's, that's where I differ.
[25:30.500 --> 25:34.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think they're entitled to look at my phone or anyone's phone.
[25:34.120 --> 25:37.120]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, if... If I commit a crime while I'm standing in line, yeah.
[25:37.300 --> 25:39.440]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Or if they have like a warrant out maybe.
[25:39.720 --> 25:39.860]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay.
[25:40.100 --> 25:41.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Here's how I think it should work.
[25:41.720 --> 25:49.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, somebody is arrested or they have their, their house seized or whatever, and, and they go nuts and they take everything, you know, as they do.
[25:50.100 --> 25:54.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I guess, you know, even though, uh, I, I, I wouldn't necessarily enjoy it.
[25:54.600 --> 25:57.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: They have the, the, the, the stuff in their possession.
[25:57.660 --> 26:01.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: They can do whatever they want with it because they, they have it in their possession.
[26:01.800 --> 26:06.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: But if you, if you want to walk up to me and say, Hey, Emmanuel, give me your phone.
[26:06.640 --> 26:07.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Tell me your password.
[26:07.800 --> 26:08.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Give me all your secrets.
[26:09.220 --> 26:14.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and I don't keep my secrets on my phone anyway, but the point is they expect me to just cooperate with them.
[26:14.880 --> 26:15.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Why?
[26:15.120 --> 26:17.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because they're law enforcement and I have to do everything they say.
[26:17.660 --> 26:21.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I say, hell no, no, I don't have to do what you say.
[26:21.560 --> 26:27.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if I have the opportunity, I will destroy my private material so that you don't get to see it.
[26:27.700 --> 26:32.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if I'm, if I'm a criminal, find another way to prove I'm a criminal without doing that.
[26:33.440 --> 26:35.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex refute everything I just said, go ahead.
[26:36.760 --> 26:37.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[26:37.380 --> 26:38.680]  [KYLEDROSDK]: In one breath, one breath.
[26:38.820 --> 26:39.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[26:39.340 --> 26:39.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: In one breath.
[26:40.900 --> 26:42.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: Let me take a deep breath here.
[26:42.780 --> 26:43.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[26:43.440 --> 26:44.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: Where to, where to start now?
[26:44.860 --> 26:45.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[26:45.160 --> 26:53.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I, I think this is a, an incredibly fascinating case and I think we could spend hours and hours talking about it.
[26:53.580 --> 27:03.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I, and I think we should, I, you know, there's a, there's a crazy hacker conference coming up in, in New York where I think, you know, it would be a great, great place to, uh, to have an extended debate about this, this thing.
[27:04.420 --> 27:12.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, uh, while we're here on the air, I think really what this boils down to is this Graphene OS wipe feature, right?
[27:12.740 --> 27:16.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: Is it a privacy feature or is it obstruction of justice?
[27:16.400 --> 27:17.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it depends on the context.
[27:18.200 --> 27:31.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I, and I think to a certain extent, you're right, Emmanuel, but to a certain extent, I also think you're wrong about it too, because what this really hinges on is whether there was a lawful search happening here, right?
[27:31.180 --> 27:44.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I think on the one hand, if you think about this from the government's perspective, they do have a very plausible anti-spoliation theory and spoliation being the word for destruction of evidence.
[27:44.540 --> 27:46.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's kind of the legal term of art.
[27:46.720 --> 27:51.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: When you spoliate evidence, it's destruction of evidence, something that could have been used against you.
[27:52.400 --> 28:06.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, so if a traveler at a border stop, if he deliberately triggers a wipe during what is a lawful inspection, then that begins to look like intentional interference with, with lawful seizure there, right?
[28:06.800 --> 28:21.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I think there's a real policy concern because authorities don't want somebody who's a device, a device owner, a traveler to just nullify evidence the moment that a lawful stop happens.
[28:21.140 --> 28:44.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: But on the other side of this, the user side, the privacy side, I think there's a, uh, arguably more plausible civil liberties invoking theory here because border agents already have just such an expansive amount of authority and, and, um, an ability to inspect and seize at the border.
[28:44.540 --> 28:48.380]  [ALEXURBELS]: So device search rights there are already weak.
[28:48.560 --> 28:49.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're already ambiguous.
[28:50.140 --> 28:59.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: So users do need something to protect themselves, to protect their own sensitive data from the coercive access of the state itself.
[28:59.680 --> 29:03.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: And if the state, remember we're talking about the state, we're talking about the federal government here.
[29:03.340 --> 29:18.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: If the state can punish a person, an individual person for using a built-in privacy setting on a phone in an operating system, then what's the practical value of any encryption-based self-defense?
[29:19.560 --> 29:21.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: There's none at that point.
[29:21.780 --> 29:26.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: The, the precedential effect of this case could be really, really far, far ranging.
[29:27.760 --> 29:35.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, and where I think we, I'll stop there, but because, uh, there's, there's a technical aspect of this I want to, I want to jump into, but let's, let's stay on the policy side.
[29:35.900 --> 29:40.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I want to talk about Graphene OS a little bit later as well, because it's really something fascinating.
[29:40.740 --> 29:44.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think a lot of our listeners would be interested in, but I just wanted to bring up a hypothetical here.
[29:45.080 --> 29:58.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: If, if this guy was on a plane, right, and he learned that, uh, they're checking everybody who lands in Atlanta and he erased his phone then, is that the same crime in these people's eyes?
[29:58.800 --> 30:01.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: If he just felt paranoid and erased it at some point?
[30:02.000 --> 30:05.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, keep in mind, he's using a phone's feature.
[30:05.740 --> 30:11.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: He has this particular OS on his phone by choice, and that's what it's designed to do.
[30:11.400 --> 30:12.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: And he's simply using it.
[30:12.860 --> 30:15.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: And by erasing it, he no longer has access to it.
[30:15.420 --> 30:22.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, if he's a criminal, he's going to need access to, to his, uh, his, uh, basic, uh, crime tools, whatever's on his phone.
[30:22.880 --> 30:25.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and he's going to have to do something to get them back.
[30:25.460 --> 30:26.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: And maybe that's where you get him.
[30:26.860 --> 30:30.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: If he really is a criminal, uh, Rob had something, then we'll go back to Alex.
[30:30.420 --> 30:30.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Rob.
[30:31.580 --> 30:31.980]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[30:32.300 --> 30:40.540]  [ROBVINCENT]: I, um, an interesting thing about this story hitting the mainstream like this is more and more people are becoming aware of the concept of a duress, uh, pin or a duress password.
[30:41.060 --> 30:48.540]  [ROBVINCENT]: And that's something that, uh, I think most people might be aware of as a feature of security alarms, burglar alarms, things of that sort.
[30:48.780 --> 30:57.180]  [ROBVINCENT]: The idea being that there's a code you use to really disable it, but there's also a code you can use if say a dangerous person is ordering you to disable it.
[30:57.340 --> 31:01.380]  [ROBVINCENT]: And instead this code makes it look like it's disabled, but still calls the police and whatnot.
[31:01.800 --> 31:16.480]  [ROBVINCENT]: So the idea of a duress password, which is supported in Graphene OS, it's not a feature of Android off the shelf, but this particular security focused, uh, version of Android that you can choose to put on certain phones, um, supports it as a feature.
[31:16.540 --> 31:22.280]  [ROBVINCENT]: And I think it's a great feature and, uh, it's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out, uh, in, in courts.
[31:22.860 --> 31:23.600]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yes, Alex.
[31:24.460 --> 31:36.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, this, this feature I think is, is, or really should be front and center because what actually happened when the duress password was entered is kind of fascinating.
[31:36.180 --> 31:42.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think, I think we really should unpack it a bit here on the show, given that we are a hacker show here, right?
[31:42.120 --> 31:46.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because arguably none of his data was deleted.
[31:47.000 --> 31:48.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: Nothing was deleted.
[31:48.800 --> 31:48.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[31:50.040 --> 32:06.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: The per Graphene OS's own change logs from June, 2024, the mechanism used in Graphene OS for the associated with the, the entrance of the, uh, duress password is that it doesn't delete the data from the device itself.
[32:06.000 --> 32:18.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: But what it does is it wipes all of the hardware key store keys, including the keys that are used to derive the key encryption keys for disk encryption.
[32:18.380 --> 32:28.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: So when you delete all of those keys, you cannot decrypt the data and makes all of the OS, uh, data on the disk itself on recoverable.
[32:28.540 --> 32:30.780]  [ALEXURBELS]: Then it wipes the e-sims and then it shuts down.
[32:30.980 --> 32:37.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: So there's actually no overwriting of the user data in that disk, uh, partition at all.
[32:37.660 --> 32:45.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, presumably all of the, the ciphertext blocks, the encrypted data on the drive are still sitting there on the drive.
[32:45.600 --> 32:46.360]  [ALEXURBELS]: There's nothing gone.
[32:46.520 --> 32:48.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: What's gone are the keys.
[32:48.800 --> 32:51.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: What's gone is the ability to decrypt the data.
[32:51.780 --> 32:53.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: He didn't delete anything.
[32:53.220 --> 32:54.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: He just deleted the keys.
[32:55.160 --> 33:02.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, they would say the keys are what they needed to, uh, look at everything else, uh, and, uh, what they needed, but it's not the data itself.
[33:03.020 --> 33:06.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: And is there, uh, uh, a chance those keys are backed up someplace else?
[33:08.160 --> 33:09.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: No, um, I don't think so.
[33:10.120 --> 33:15.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, and I think that the way Graphene did it was to securely overwrite those keys many times.
[33:15.160 --> 33:17.380]  [ALEXURBELS]: I would, I would presume to make them unrecoverable.
[33:17.620 --> 33:23.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: So what I don't get is what do they think they had on this guy that they could only get from his phone?
[33:23.480 --> 33:30.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, keep in mind, he is deleting, uh, whatever word you want to use, getting rid of that particular, uh, bit of information.
[33:31.280 --> 33:33.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: He no longer has access to it either.
[33:33.500 --> 33:39.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it, it can't be something that is vital to whatever plan he's engaged in.
[33:39.660 --> 33:50.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: The, the, the fact that they knew something was on his phone and knew that his, uh, making it inaccessible to them somehow furthered his, uh, evil plot.
[33:51.180 --> 33:53.020]  [EVILCORLEY]: It just sounds really, really shaky to me.
[33:55.040 --> 33:57.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, think about it from this perspective, right?
[33:57.340 --> 34:03.020]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, they were compelling him to enter some kind of passcode to decrypt the data that was on his phone.
[34:03.440 --> 34:06.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: So we can bring this right back again to the fifth amendment here, right?
[34:07.120 --> 34:12.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, and I think there's, there's a good structural reason to do it because it would have been a spoken passcode.
[34:12.960 --> 34:21.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: So the government's case here would essentially rest on something that was a verbal communication that was extracted during a government interrogation.
[34:22.040 --> 34:28.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: That squarely puts the fifth amendment at the center of this particular dispute as well.
[34:28.540 --> 34:40.890]  [ALEXURBELS]: And as I understand it, this individual's legal team actually moved to suppress the interrogation and the phone evidence on both the fifth amendment and the sixth amendment, uh, uh, as well.
[34:41.020 --> 34:48.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I think, you know, we're kind of going full circle here because fifth amendment may, may be front and center and decide this particular legal dispute as well.
[34:50.080 --> 34:58.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: It seems like the same basic thing that we were talking about before with Anthony Fauci that basically you have the right to, uh, to keep quiet.
[34:58.450 --> 35:06.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: If, uh, if you don't want to talk to the people that are trying to trip you up in one way or another, you don't have to, you have the right to keep quiet.
[35:06.790 --> 35:11.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, and, and, and, and both of these cases, that's what the people were trying to do.
[35:11.180 --> 35:13.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not, uh, not give anything to the authorities.
[35:14.560 --> 35:20.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Again, you know, if the authorities have something on you, well, use that, use that.
[35:20.500 --> 35:26.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: You, you, you don't need to have the, the subject of your investigation incriminate themselves further.
[35:27.200 --> 35:34.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you already have something, it might not be everything you want, but it's gotta be enough to get you somewhere.
[35:35.370 --> 35:38.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if it's not, maybe you don't have much to start with.
[35:39.000 --> 35:39.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[35:39.680 --> 35:41.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: People have the right to defend themselves.
[35:41.330 --> 35:42.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: I keep hearing that all the time.
[35:43.600 --> 35:51.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Except when people like us decide to do it, all of a sudden it becomes illegal and, you know, against the, uh, the rules.
[35:51.980 --> 36:00.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it's great when you make the rules such that you have to comply and basically, um, uh, give away your secrets.
[36:00.980 --> 36:03.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, just because they demand your secrets.
[36:04.140 --> 36:10.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: If, if he hadn't given them a password at all, they would have charged him with something else, you know, not, not giving up.
[36:10.220 --> 36:16.180]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they would have brute forced his phone until they figured something out or until it destroyed itself.
[36:16.180 --> 36:19.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know what, what happens if you keep guessing and don't get somewhere.
[36:20.960 --> 36:29.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it, it just seems like the system is set up so that people are trying to protect themselves are, um, considered criminals.
[36:29.760 --> 36:31.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think that's very unhealthy.
[36:34.570 --> 36:38.310]  [ROBVINCENT]: It also speaks to kind of this one piece of conventional wisdom.
[36:38.630 --> 36:58.190]  [ROBVINCENT]: I think among, uh, it hacker, uh, tech focus people when traveling, which is, um, it's usually a good idea to when you're bringing devices across the border, um, computers, laptops, phones, whatever, to basically, uh, clear them of anything that you wouldn't want to share before you make the trip.
[36:58.430 --> 37:11.870]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, any important data you have while you're over there, upload it back home over the Internet, get rid of it off your device and fly home with, uh, with a laptop or a phone or whatever else that doesn't have anything important on it because, uh, you know,
[37:11.970 --> 37:19.750]  [ROBVINCENT]: at the border, they can, uh, they can use whatever means they have at their disposable, their, their disposal to, to look at, uh, whatever they want here.
[37:21.090 --> 37:21.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Alex.
[37:23.130 --> 37:27.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: This, this one, I think we're going to have to really be watching closely here, too.
[37:27.890 --> 37:29.470]  [ALEXURBELS]: The ramifications are long-term.
[37:29.670 --> 37:38.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: I can see this, this issue very easily going up, uh, on appeal to the circuit courts, possibly even to the Supreme Court in a few years.
[37:38.450 --> 37:39.090]  [ALEXURBELS]: Who, who knows?
[37:39.250 --> 37:48.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: But what's clear though, is if the government wins this, it's going to certainly chill coercion, coercion-resistant security tools.
[37:49.310 --> 37:52.030]  [ALEXURBELS]: And we need coercion-resistant security tools.
[37:52.170 --> 37:56.710]  [ALEXURBELS]: We need things that protect our personal data from governmental overreach.
[37:56.850 --> 37:58.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: We see it all the time.
[37:58.650 --> 38:00.090]  [ALEXURBELS]: We need it, we need it for journalists.
[38:00.270 --> 38:02.030]  [ALEXURBELS]: We need it for human rights defenders.
[38:02.310 --> 38:05.110]  [ALEXURBELS]: We need it for ordinary citizens crossing the border these days.
[38:05.350 --> 38:06.870]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, it's just the, the way of the world.
[38:07.250 --> 38:19.710]  [ALEXURBELS]: And if the defense wins this one, well, then border agents are definitely going to, to be pushed towards, I think, more narrow and more specific demands for, for seizures.
[38:20.010 --> 38:22.350]  [ALEXURBELS]: It will, it will undercut their rights at the border.
[38:22.770 --> 38:24.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, they'll have to have clearer warrants.
[38:25.530 --> 38:34.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, and, and make, I think, very specific demands before actually having access or grant getting access to an individual's device.
[38:35.210 --> 38:36.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I see that as a good thing.
[38:36.930 --> 38:43.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: I, I see pushing back on the government's authority at the border as, as certainly something that's a long, long time overdue.
[38:44.990 --> 38:48.510]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Uh, yeah, I would just stick to like basic stuff.
[38:48.670 --> 38:55.690]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, I think that getting into like all of personal data and like information stuff is sort of beyond the scope of their duties there.
[38:55.790 --> 39:00.610]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They're looking for very specific things, um, upon entry into the country.
[39:00.770 --> 39:10.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I don't think that we should be like feeling like a secret agent every time we like get on a plane and want to go travel or want to go see our friends or do something.
[39:10.070 --> 39:13.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Uh, it, it, it's to me just absurd.
[39:13.290 --> 39:27.990]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And that whole rule about, you know, the, you know, rule of thumb about, um, you know, preparing to travel, I think it just adds too much, too much paranoia and too much, um, stress to an already stressful, um, experience.
[39:27.990 --> 39:30.810]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, uh, especially in air travel.
[39:30.990 --> 39:34.550]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, so I have a lot of problems with that.
[39:34.690 --> 39:43.370]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think that, um, that we live in a society that we'd have to prepare where we have to prepare that much.
[39:43.630 --> 39:46.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And, um, it ought not, it should not be the case.
[39:46.930 --> 39:49.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We, um, uh, really open ourselves up.
[39:49.510 --> 39:59.830]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think as was pointed out, there are many different types of people crossing the border that there are classes and, uh, categories of individuals that need protection.
[40:00.170 --> 40:18.430]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Um, and you're opening up way too much more liability in an already really fraught, um, data security environment when you've got, um, you know, millions of travelers, all these sorts of devices being what copied and what stored with the, the federal government somewhere.
[40:18.530 --> 40:38.390]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Uh, uh, how much in the business, how many in the business and, uh, finance and, and other, um, service industries and, and, um, communities that, uh, rely on business intelligence and, uh, um, their own intellectual property, how much of that stuff is going to be compromised and stored and then maybe,
[40:38.410 --> 40:49.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: um, you know, leaked or, or, um, uh, uh, uh, held captive in a malware campaign by some, from some negligence by a third-party.
[40:49.830 --> 40:52.530]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, there, we've see this stuff over and over and over again.
[40:52.670 --> 41:11.710]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And so I, I just really am skeptical of the utility of trying to implement this stuff when you're already like, you know, um, um, throwing non-ionizing radiation at people and, and running them through hell and, and with passable coffee.
[41:11.850 --> 41:15.930]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, it's, we deserve better as a society and I, I just can't stand it.
[41:16.050 --> 41:35.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I think, and, and on into journalists and activists, uh, people, uh, uh, exercising their rights in, as a, as a practitioner of it myself and people that, um, across different fields, I think really just deserve better from our government and, and it should be manifest in people's outcry.
[41:37.590 --> 41:41.170]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it, and it goes back, Kyle, I think really, you know, to the, to this fifth amendment, right?
[41:41.290 --> 41:47.870]  [ALEXURBELS]: This, this issue of, of it being this kind of Leatherman all purpose tool against self-incrimination here.
[41:50.630 --> 41:53.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I think so clear with this case, right?
[41:53.690 --> 42:07.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because it depends on your viewpoint, because as you mentioned, you know, there are people that are at real risk of coercion from our government, from other governments, not just ours, not just the United States, you know, traveling over into, I mean,
[42:07.710 --> 42:09.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: who knows, traveling into Iran, traveling into Russia.
[42:10.110 --> 42:38.190]  [ALEXURBELS]: This is, there are international issues here, uh, and, and so many people facing coercion, but the very existence and implementation of something like a duress passcode, could itself end up as it is in this case, looking like some kind of legal signal or some kind of indication of intent that the user anticipated some form of conflict with the authorities or some kind of search to occur with
[42:38.190 --> 42:39.170]  [ALEXURBELS]: respect to their devices.
[42:39.370 --> 42:43.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: So in a sense, just using it, using the feature makes you look guilty.
[42:44.130 --> 42:46.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: So protecting yourself is considered intent.
[42:47.710 --> 42:49.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's what it, that's the problem here.
[42:49.510 --> 42:50.130]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's the trade off.
[42:50.230 --> 42:51.290]  [ALEXURBELS]: It could look like that.
[42:51.410 --> 42:54.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: And that would be that that's a horrible thing to have happen.
[42:55.210 --> 42:56.750]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, that's the road we're going down.
[42:56.970 --> 43:02.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's the same fallacy that encryption, you know, if you're encrypting, you have something to hide.
[43:02.210 --> 43:10.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: No, the, the normalizing of it and the, the ubiquity of it on websites, on communications was the norm.
[43:11.070 --> 43:13.190]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We just weren't doing it as a practice.
[43:15.090 --> 43:15.530]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[43:15.670 --> 43:15.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[43:16.010 --> 43:34.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, and look, so what, on the, on the one hand, a feature that can improve confidentiality can also drastically, uh, I think alter and worsen the optics that are involved with respect to your intent to either destroy your data or to obstruct justice here.
[43:35.370 --> 43:37.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's, you know, it goes back at root to it.
[43:37.430 --> 43:40.850]  [ALEXURBELS]: Is this a privacy enhancing device or feature?
[43:40.850 --> 43:40.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: Sure.
[43:41.030 --> 43:46.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: I have a couple of, uh, hypotheticals, but let's, uh, let Rob speak first and then I'll, uh, get to my fun hypotheticals here.
[43:47.110 --> 43:47.410]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[43:47.490 --> 44:04.010]  [ROBVINCENT]: I think, um, in the, in the case of, uh, this guy, if instead of giving his duress password to the authorities and having them enter it and having the phone, uh, be cleared that way, if instead he made this part of his normal routine to just clear his stuff while he was in the air,
[44:04.150 --> 44:07.790]  [ROBVINCENT]: while he was traveling before he got home and said, oh, this is my normal routine.
[44:08.150 --> 44:14.930]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, that, that could possibly be, I believe a defense against, uh, trying to say, well, you, you knew we were going to search you.
[44:15.050 --> 44:18.250]  [ROBVINCENT]: So you purposely willfully clear out your stuff.
[44:18.250 --> 44:22.710]  [ROBVINCENT]: If it's just, uh, something you automatically do as part of your data hygiene practices.
[44:23.110 --> 44:25.970]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, I think, uh, that, that might be more defensible.
[44:26.110 --> 44:26.710]  [ROBVINCENT]: Do you think so, Alex?
[44:27.930 --> 44:29.390]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, I, I do.
[44:29.530 --> 44:30.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: I definitely do.
[44:30.530 --> 44:30.630]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[44:30.770 --> 44:40.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, if, if it's, if it's more of like a routine thing as, as you're suggesting, like you must have like some kind of policy that, that you're simply implementing doing this on a daily or routine basis.
[44:40.430 --> 44:40.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: Sure.
[44:40.830 --> 44:56.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: So my theory is that, um, the data that was actually on there is negligible, that there was nothing on there and that this was just, um, somebody knowing that they were going to be challenged and messing with them as they have every right to do as they should do.
[44:56.290 --> 45:08.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, and I think, you know, that, that, that would still be considered in their eyes, a crime for some reason, you're not covering up evidence, but you're wasting their time, but they're wasting their own time by pursuing this in the first place.
[45:08.370 --> 45:26.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, the hypothetical, I, I, I, uh, want to pose, supposing, uh, there was data on that phone, supposing it was a, um, a plot, a terrorist plot, uh, supposing you, um, uh, you managed to work with, uh, artificial intelligence, uh, to shape the plot so that it fits you.
[45:26.870 --> 45:30.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, it's a, it's a, it fits your life, your habits, your locations, all that kind of thing.
[45:30.990 --> 45:37.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: So to anybody reading it, it would seem believable, but it's all fake and it's all protected behind the password.
[45:37.510 --> 45:41.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: And these idiots come and demand your password and you tell them the password.
[45:41.550 --> 45:44.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then they find this whole big fake fiction story.
[45:45.230 --> 45:46.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is that a crime?
[45:46.490 --> 45:50.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, you're basically, you're basically, uh, plotting terrorism.
[45:51.010 --> 45:51.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not going to happen.
[45:52.330 --> 46:00.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: And people have been charged for, um, uh, for coming up with harebrained schemes that didn't stand a chance in hell of, of, uh, of working.
[46:00.510 --> 46:09.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, but in this particular case, they literally asked for it and you followed their rules and provided it to them and they're not happy with what they're reading.
[46:10.250 --> 46:12.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: What if you don't explain what's on the phone?
[46:12.830 --> 46:17.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: What if, you know, you make them waste even more time there, there's all kinds of ways this can go.
[46:19.730 --> 46:20.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[46:20.350 --> 46:27.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I would think they would be angry if you had some kind of fictional terrorist plot on your phone that they uncovered.
[46:27.570 --> 46:33.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: It probably wouldn't be the best way to ensure you're treated well at the border or for the next several years.
[46:33.790 --> 46:35.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, that ship has sailed, man.
[46:35.450 --> 46:36.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: That ship is gone.
[46:36.510 --> 46:46.350]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, but, um, so I, I think you might be running into the, you know, issues with respect to, to making false statements and obstruction of justice and, and, and various things like that.
[46:46.350 --> 46:48.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: But you, you wouldn't, I wouldn't have made a statement.
[46:48.430 --> 46:52.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: They would have, they would have prodded out of my phone, you know, at their own behest.
[46:53.270 --> 46:54.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: I wouldn't have said a damn thing.
[46:55.530 --> 46:56.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I guess.
[46:56.390 --> 47:09.950]  [ALEXURBELS]: But if you, if you, if you created the data with the intention of misleading the authorities, knowing that you were going to hand over your phone, then I think, you know, they're, they'll find a way to, to shoehorn that into making some kind of false statement to the authorities.
[47:10.130 --> 47:18.230]  [ALEXURBELS]: But it, you know, it goes back to this issue of the testimonial aspect of a passcode and a duress passcode is a correct passcode.
[47:18.430 --> 47:22.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: You're not making any kind of false statement when you're handing that passcode over.
[47:22.490 --> 47:23.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's a legitimate passcode.
[47:23.690 --> 47:24.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's a credential to the phone.
[47:24.890 --> 47:35.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: It just happens to wipe the keys that would allow anybody, including yourself or including law enforcement or including your mother-in-law, it doesn't matter, to have access to the data that's encrypted on the drive.
[47:36.610 --> 47:53.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think what everybody should do is basically encrypt their data, put it in a very secure cloud instance somewhere, and then install Graphene OS on your phone, get on your plane, and give them the duress password each and every time.
[47:53.730 --> 48:01.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, you're not losing anything except maybe your freedom, uh, but they're getting super frustrated and your data is safe in the cloud somewhere until you get out.
[48:02.990 --> 48:05.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I'm sorry, that's the way we have to think.
[48:05.270 --> 48:06.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: How do we install Graphene OS?
[48:06.930 --> 48:07.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just so people know.
[48:07.930 --> 48:14.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, they, I know the address, uh, is, uh, grapheneos, uh, dot, um, dot org.
[48:14.890 --> 48:20.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's spelled G-R-A-P-H-E-N-E-O-S dot O-R-G.
[48:20.870 --> 48:23.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, they have a really good page there.
[48:23.370 --> 48:26.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: They have, uh, all kinds of explanations as to what it does, what it doesn't do.
[48:27.190 --> 48:27.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob?
[48:28.310 --> 48:30.770]  [ROBVINCENT]: And a couple of important details about Graphene OS.
[48:30.950 --> 48:38.230]  [ROBVINCENT]: Well, for one thing, it'll only work on Google Pixel phones at present, though there are plans in the works for some devices, uh, forthcoming from Motorola.
[48:38.430 --> 48:40.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wait, you have to have a Google Pixel phone for this to work?
[48:40.930 --> 48:41.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: I didn't know that.
[48:41.950 --> 48:45.390]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, it's, uh, it's tuned specifically to the hardware of the Google Pixel phone.
[48:45.910 --> 48:50.630]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, but, uh, the, the idea here is it's an open-source project.
[48:50.910 --> 48:51.990]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's a, it's a free thing.
[48:52.170 --> 48:53.610]  [ROBVINCENT]: You can, uh, you know, it costs nothing.
[48:53.750 --> 48:55.470]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's also not a commercial entity.
[48:55.590 --> 48:57.950]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's run, it's backed by a non-profit from Canada.
[48:57.990 --> 49:03.630]  [ROBVINCENT]: So it's not even an American product, um, in, in terms of where the organization is.
[49:04.010 --> 49:16.810]  [ROBVINCENT]: So, um, in terms of keeping access to tools like Graphene OS alive and available, um, it's, it's not within the jurisdiction of, say, United States Border Patrol or, or the United, United States for that matter.
[49:17.170 --> 49:18.730]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, it's a thing that exists.
[49:18.990 --> 49:20.790]  [ROBVINCENT]: And yeah, grapheneOS.org.
[49:21.030 --> 49:30.310]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, and, uh, the, there's interesting stuff on the history page if you want to learn more about the, uh, the weird path this has taken to the, to the, uh, product it is now.
[49:30.630 --> 49:34.470]  [ROBVINCENT]: But, um, it is also, it's, it's just security hardened.
[49:34.650 --> 49:36.010]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's not just about wiping your phone.
[49:36.170 --> 49:38.730]  [ROBVINCENT]: It protects your, your personal data.
[49:39.030 --> 49:40.730]  [ROBVINCENT]: It, uh, it protects your security.
[49:41.010 --> 49:46.770]  [ROBVINCENT]: It, uh, in ways that, uh, stock Android will never do because of ways in which Google likes to monetize you.
[49:47.350 --> 49:55.770]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, you can run Google, uh, play apps, but only in a sort of special sandbox that prevents, uh, them phoning back home with, uh, all that much data.
[49:56.450 --> 50:01.470]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, individual apps can be blocked from your phone's microphone or camera or things like that.
[50:01.730 --> 50:07.590]  [ROBVINCENT]: And it is just, it offers you so many ways to protect your personal privacy, your digital privacy.
[50:08.170 --> 50:10.490]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, and it's a really fascinating thing to look into.
[50:10.710 --> 50:13.310]  [ROBVINCENT]: If you're, if you weren't aware of these things, check it out.
[50:13.670 --> 50:14.610]  [ROBVINCENT]: GrapheneOS.org.
[50:15.270 --> 50:15.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[50:15.990 --> 50:18.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you know, we're going to have to leave it there, but you can write to us.
[50:18.710 --> 50:21.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: oth@2600.com.
[50:21.730 --> 50:24.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, you can keep listening at eight o'clock.
[50:25.010 --> 50:28.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: We will be on YouTube Channel2600 next week from seven to eight.
[50:28.810 --> 50:30.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: We will be on WBAI taking your phone calls.
[50:31.230 --> 50:32.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'll see you then.
[50:32.010 --> 50:32.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: Have a good night.
[54:26.790 --> 54:29.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: And with that, we're back here on YouTube.
[54:30.030 --> 54:31.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: Off The Hook Overtime.
[54:31.170 --> 54:31.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Emmanuel here.
[54:32.470 --> 54:33.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle, over there.
[54:33.910 --> 54:34.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hi.
[54:34.870 --> 54:41.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have Gila, Rob, and Alex, I believe, out there in Signal-land.
[54:41.650 --> 54:42.510]  [ALEXURBELS]: We are here.
[54:42.810 --> 54:43.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: I believe that's where we just correct.
[54:43.450 --> 54:43.630]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yep.
[54:44.230 --> 54:45.170]  [ALEXURBELS]: What's going on?
[54:45.410 --> 54:45.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[54:46.070 --> 54:49.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it's just a circus around here.
[54:50.730 --> 54:51.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're here on Overtime.
[54:52.130 --> 54:53.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: There won't be an Overtime next week.
[54:53.330 --> 54:56.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: So get your Overtime fun in this week.
[54:56.930 --> 55:00.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that could include calling us, but not now, because the phone lines are not open yet.
[55:01.730 --> 55:03.070]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, I forgot about that.
[55:03.070 --> 55:04.470]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, we take phone calls, don't we?
[55:04.590 --> 55:04.850]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We do.
[55:05.030 --> 55:05.510]  [KYLEDROSDK]: We take them.
[55:05.510 --> 55:06.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, I should do something.
[55:07.790 --> 55:08.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wait, what do you have to do?
[55:08.930 --> 55:10.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: I was doing all the configuration just now.
[55:12.570 --> 55:17.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, and we made a reference to it in passing, but yes, HOPE is imminent.
[55:18.890 --> 55:22.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just under, good Lord, under three weeks?
[55:24.810 --> 55:25.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yes.
[55:25.430 --> 55:25.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[55:25.730 --> 55:27.010]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I was saying over two weeks.
[55:27.030 --> 55:28.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: A little over two weeks.
[55:28.430 --> 55:29.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, my God.
[55:29.330 --> 55:31.190]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Whatever sounds like more time.
[55:31.190 --> 55:32.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: We better start organizing.
[55:32.850 --> 55:33.490]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, boy.
[55:33.990 --> 55:34.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[55:34.690 --> 55:35.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[55:35.570 --> 55:36.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: We need a place.
[55:36.970 --> 55:37.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, we got a place.
[55:37.990 --> 55:39.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: We got the New Yorker Hotel.
[55:39.810 --> 55:41.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's in New York, by the way.
[55:41.870 --> 55:42.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: New York City.
[55:43.270 --> 55:44.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, as New York as you can get.
[55:45.130 --> 55:45.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Beat that.
[55:47.630 --> 55:50.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have all kinds of fun things happening.
[55:50.690 --> 55:51.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't know the half of it.
[55:53.650 --> 56:00.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have a theater rented out down the street, 34th Street, for a special movie on Friday night.
[56:00.590 --> 56:05.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's all kinds of parties at bars and things going on, various times of the weekend.
[56:07.110 --> 56:10.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not going to go into detail, but there's some kind of a march planned.
[56:11.150 --> 56:22.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: There are at least one DJ set, and of course, a hundred talks of various sorts, and workshops, and villages, and just overall fun.
[56:23.570 --> 56:24.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it'll be great.
[56:24.470 --> 56:30.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: It'll be like, you know, a reunion after so many years of not being in New York City.
[56:30.950 --> 56:34.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, technically, Queens, I know, is New York City, but you know what I mean?
[56:34.030 --> 56:34.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not Manhattan.
[56:34.970 --> 56:36.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not Midtown Manhattan.
[56:36.390 --> 56:38.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Only two blocks away from where we were before.
[56:39.190 --> 56:39.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's incredible.
[56:40.650 --> 56:42.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I still can't believe it.
[56:42.390 --> 56:49.770]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I've been saying surreal, because there's sort of familiar elements of it, but also these sort of new aspects.
[56:49.770 --> 57:01.970]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But all the same, really invigorating, or I'm really invigorated by the sort of spirit and people's excitement and plans.
[57:02.270 --> 57:16.330]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So please tell us about stuff that you're thinking about doing, by all means, so that we can share and sort of elevate that as we are updating people and sending out general information.
[57:16.330 --> 57:21.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But it's starting to look like there might be an event.
[57:21.410 --> 57:22.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: I hope so, yes.
[57:22.910 --> 57:27.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm very cautiously optimistic.
[57:27.270 --> 57:29.810]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I mean, deterministic.
[57:30.370 --> 57:31.930]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, I'm not really sure.
[57:33.850 --> 57:35.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I think it's good.
[57:36.650 --> 57:40.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: It is horribly expensive, though, to do this kind of thing.
[57:41.090 --> 57:41.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Horribly expensive.
[57:42.210 --> 57:46.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's why we need people to buy tickets, so that we can afford to do this again.
[57:47.930 --> 57:54.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: And not only that, but donations to our AV fund, because, boy, that's horribly expensive, too.
[57:54.370 --> 58:00.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we have a nonprofit where everything will be tax-deductible, any donation.
[58:00.690 --> 58:06.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: We also have a continuation of what we started last year with the HOPE Scholarships.
[58:06.290 --> 58:11.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's where people donate tickets to others who can't make it to HOPE otherwise.
[58:11.450 --> 58:21.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we had a whole bunch of students and other people basically come to HOPE last year thanks to the generosity of other HOPE attendees.
[58:21.150 --> 58:23.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or even people who didn't go to HOPE and just donated a ticket.
[58:24.130 --> 58:24.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was great.
[58:25.510 --> 58:27.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you definitely changed some lives.
[58:28.230 --> 58:34.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: People got to hang out with others who were into hacking and technology.
[58:35.290 --> 58:37.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: They met people they still talked to.
[58:38.950 --> 58:43.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, you know, it's an amazing moment when you realize you're not alone.
[58:43.990 --> 58:51.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: That there are other people out there that don't think it's a waste of time to be messing around with various forms of technology.
[58:51.150 --> 58:54.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're trying to design things or build things or just even notice things.
[58:54.830 --> 59:01.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you look at our schedule at hope.net, you will see that we're noticing a lot of things.
[59:01.810 --> 59:06.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: There are all kinds of topics being focused on.
[59:06.970 --> 59:09.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not a security conference.
[59:09.370 --> 59:11.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not just a tech conference.
[59:11.510 --> 59:13.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Sure, there's lots of tech involved.
[59:13.230 --> 59:18.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: But there's all kinds of other aspects as well on an international scale, on a social scale.
[59:19.410 --> 59:22.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just... it keeps getting bigger and bigger.
[59:22.410 --> 59:29.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: And what I mean by that is not necessarily in numbers of people, but in the scope of what it is that we find interesting.
[59:30.110 --> 59:36.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that we apply technology to and various solutions and noticing various problems and things like that.
[59:36.730 --> 59:38.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE is a unique conference.
[59:38.050 --> 59:44.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's like no other conference that I've ever heard of that I hear it all the time from other people.
[59:45.070 --> 59:45.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE is unique.
[59:46.430 --> 59:50.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's the closest thing to a European conference in the United States, that's for sure.
[59:51.270 --> 59:53.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's even unique on that level.
[59:53.790 --> 59:55.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: So check it out for yourself.
[59:56.830 --> 01:00:02.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's August 14th through 16th at the New Yorker Hotel, corner of 8th Avenue and 34th Street.
[01:00:03.070 --> 01:00:05.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Boy, didn't we have the best tacos ever, Kyle?
[01:00:05.970 --> 01:00:13.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: We were there the other day, and there's this taco place, almost where Hotel Penn was, on 33rd Street.
[01:00:13.530 --> 01:00:16.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: People wait in line for over 25 minutes at least.
[01:00:17.510 --> 01:00:21.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: And by the time you get there, you're even more hungry, but boy, are they amazing.
[01:00:21.590 --> 01:00:24.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: They have these crunchy peppers.
[01:00:24.350 --> 01:00:25.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, my God.
[01:00:25.410 --> 01:00:28.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: I feel like driving into the city right now just to get those.
[01:00:29.810 --> 01:00:30.870]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Absolutely, yeah.
[01:00:31.090 --> 01:00:34.190]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They're very small street tacos.
[01:00:34.210 --> 01:00:37.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You can get different tortilla types.
[01:00:37.530 --> 01:00:42.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And it's just phenomenal to see so many people just grabbing stuff.
[01:00:42.670 --> 01:00:48.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And yeah, I'm just really thrilled to be back in that area.
[01:00:48.410 --> 01:00:55.930]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And there's so many different things to do and try, like if you're just talking about the food opportunity.
[01:00:55.930 --> 01:00:57.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Look, I loved Queens.
[01:00:57.870 --> 01:00:58.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: I did.
[01:00:58.430 --> 01:01:00.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, St. John's was an interesting experience.
[01:01:01.510 --> 01:01:10.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I do recognize there were challenges insofar as doing things late at night, insofar as finding food close by.
[01:01:10.470 --> 01:01:17.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, you can basically crawl to a decent food place from any entrance to the hotel.
[01:01:18.110 --> 01:01:22.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, you can go to the diner that's downstairs 24 hours in the hotel.
[01:01:22.890 --> 01:01:24.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: But every chain you can imagine.
[01:01:24.730 --> 01:01:25.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's not about the chains.
[01:01:25.850 --> 01:01:26.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's about the uniqueness.
[01:01:27.430 --> 01:01:38.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: There are all kinds of mom-and-pop shops and decent food places that you could, and don't do this, throw a stone at and hit because they're so close by.
[01:01:39.450 --> 01:01:42.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's, I mean, Alex, you can get in your car right now and get those tacos.
[01:01:43.010 --> 01:01:44.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, why the hell aren't you doing that?
[01:01:44.650 --> 01:01:45.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wait, don't get in your car.
[01:01:45.970 --> 01:01:46.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, walk there.
[01:01:46.970 --> 01:01:47.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Take a bike.
[01:01:47.530 --> 01:01:48.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Don't use your car.
[01:01:48.290 --> 01:01:49.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I could walk there.
[01:01:49.550 --> 01:01:50.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: I could take my bicycle.
[01:01:51.070 --> 01:01:53.130]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, I could literally crawl there from where I am right now.
[01:01:53.790 --> 01:01:56.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: I did have Mexican food for dinner tonight as well.
[01:01:56.710 --> 01:01:57.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: This is better.
[01:01:57.410 --> 01:01:58.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I can...
[01:01:58.050 --> 01:01:58.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is better.
[01:01:58.630 --> 01:01:58.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:01:59.390 --> 01:01:59.850]  [ALEXURBELS]: One thing...
[01:01:59.850 --> 01:02:03.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: This was from St. Mark's, actually, believe it or not, this place.
[01:02:04.510 --> 01:02:12.270]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, I mean, it's a great launching off point over at Hotel New Yorker, the New Yorker Hotel, that is, to explore the city.
[01:02:12.630 --> 01:02:13.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, you've also...
[01:02:13.830 --> 01:02:16.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: You're going to be right in the heart of Chelsea.
[01:02:16.590 --> 01:02:20.290]  [ALEXURBELS]: You're going to have so many art galleries just to the south and the west of you.
[01:02:20.530 --> 01:02:22.910]  [ALEXURBELS]: You've got Hell's Kitchen just to the north of you.
[01:02:23.170 --> 01:02:26.150]  [ALEXURBELS]: You really want to go into Midtown, you know, knock yourself out.
[01:02:26.310 --> 01:02:27.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: But you're going to be really close to the West Village.
[01:02:27.990 --> 01:02:29.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: You're going to be close to Flatiron.
[01:02:29.810 --> 01:02:33.030]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, you can really explore Manhattan.
[01:02:33.370 --> 01:02:34.850]  [ALEXURBELS]: And you'll have the subway right there.
[01:02:34.930 --> 01:02:36.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: You just get wherever the hell you want.
[01:02:36.350 --> 01:02:38.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: If you want to go back to Queens, you can do that, too.
[01:02:39.370 --> 01:02:41.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, you can go anywhere, really.
[01:02:41.890 --> 01:02:46.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: But the thing is, there's so much... I mean, it's a block away from Penn Station.
[01:02:46.490 --> 01:02:53.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: A block away from, you know, all kinds of incredible landmarks.
[01:02:53.310 --> 01:02:55.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: You see the Empire State Building everywhere you stand.
[01:02:56.210 --> 01:03:00.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you're not from New York, it'll really hit you how awesome this is.
[01:03:00.870 --> 01:03:05.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, the transportation is right around the corner from the building.
[01:03:05.470 --> 01:03:13.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: In fact, like, we were doing some surveying and found subway stops that were in all parts of the area.
[01:03:13.230 --> 01:03:17.390]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, you can just emerge and be really right on the scene.
[01:03:18.050 --> 01:03:25.230]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But it is just a fascinating journey back in time.
[01:03:25.230 --> 01:03:29.530]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And we're going to compile some of the different options in the area.
[01:03:29.530 --> 01:03:32.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, and I think you were looking into, like, a place to get a slice of pizza, too.
[01:03:34.090 --> 01:03:39.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think I found the pizza place that used to be part of Hotel Penn.
[01:03:39.890 --> 01:03:43.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: In fact, it was called Little Italy Pizza, if I remember correctly.
[01:03:44.130 --> 01:03:48.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they had two stores at the ground floor of Hotel Penn.
[01:03:48.810 --> 01:03:50.750]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It was on each side, like, each avenue?
[01:03:50.830 --> 01:03:53.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, and obviously now it's a crater, so they're not there.
[01:03:54.010 --> 01:03:55.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I think they're somewhere else in Manhattan.
[01:03:55.350 --> 01:03:56.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm going to check into this.
[01:03:56.330 --> 01:04:00.050]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not going to report on it until I know for sure it's the same pizza, because it's very unique.
[01:04:00.330 --> 01:04:01.850]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It was each street, yeah.
[01:04:02.090 --> 01:04:05.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, there's one on 33rd Street, there's one on 32nd Street, I believe.
[01:04:05.070 --> 01:04:05.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's how it was, yeah.
[01:04:06.230 --> 01:04:06.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, yeah.
[01:04:07.930 --> 01:04:21.490]  [ROBVINCENT]: You know, there's so much great stuff about the area, but I do want to point out for the folks who may not know that if you're not interested in traveling to New York, if you're not interested in traveling to the U.S., which is, you know, a reasonable decision right now,
[01:04:21.650 --> 01:04:37.850]  [ROBVINCENT]: there is also the online registration for the conference in which you can see the talks, you can participate, and you can connect with other folks who are doing the same as you and still be part of HOPE, be part of what gets it, what makes it happen, and,
[01:04:37.970 --> 01:04:40.090]  [ROBVINCENT]: yeah, enjoy.
[01:04:41.370 --> 01:04:42.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Absolutely, yes.
[01:04:43.170 --> 01:04:45.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE.net, that's where all the info is.
[01:04:45.550 --> 01:04:52.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to have tickets available for a little while longer, but please hurry and get those.
[01:04:53.110 --> 01:05:05.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Also important, if you want to stay in the hotel, they have a discounted rate, and they held it over an extra week for us, because so many people wanted to get this, and it really is a last-minute rush.
[01:05:06.230 --> 01:05:15.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know there was some trouble with the rooms constantly selling out and people not being able to find the special rate, but I think it's all fixed right now.
[01:05:15.390 --> 01:05:24.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: If it's not, then it will be fixed within a few hours, because what they do is they see it sell out, and then they add a bunch more, and then that sells out, and it just...
[01:05:24.650 --> 01:05:26.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, they've never seen anything like this before.
[01:05:26.690 --> 01:05:27.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's really kind of crazy.
[01:05:28.530 --> 01:05:30.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: But it's a great place.
[01:05:30.410 --> 01:05:36.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: They really seem to be into hosting the conference, and let's see if we can make it work.
[01:05:36.910 --> 01:05:45.010]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, we have more than enough to accommodate, and what we put on what we think will be a really fantastic production, a really good show.
[01:05:45.330 --> 01:05:50.210]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And I've just scratched the surface on looking through the talks myself.
[01:05:50.210 --> 01:06:02.250]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I've been so busy, so I'm learning all these exciting topics that people are covering, and it's just really, really impressive, the thought and spirit of it.
[01:06:02.410 --> 01:06:04.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I can tell you about a couple of talks.
[01:06:04.730 --> 01:06:10.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: First, Gila, you say what you have to say, and then we'll go into a few talks that we are intimately familiar with.
[01:06:11.730 --> 01:06:12.090]  [GILADRAZEN]: Thank you.
[01:06:12.090 --> 01:06:19.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, I was just going to mention that I had to call the hotel to adjust our reservation.
[01:06:20.670 --> 01:06:22.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: And they could not have been nicer.
[01:06:23.010 --> 01:06:24.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: It could not have been easier.
[01:06:25.190 --> 01:06:26.790]  [GILADRAZEN]: They still do...
[01:06:26.790 --> 01:06:29.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: Like, they have reservations people in the hotel, and it's wonderful.
[01:06:30.770 --> 01:06:39.410]  [GILADRAZEN]: And every experience I've had with the hotel, with the restaurant in the lobby, with everything, has just been so delightful.
[01:06:40.350 --> 01:06:46.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: And the rate, correct me if I'm wrong, goes from Wednesday or Thursday to Monday checkout?
[01:06:46.830 --> 01:06:47.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: I believe so, yes.
[01:06:48.230 --> 01:06:49.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: I believe so.
[01:06:50.430 --> 01:06:56.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Which is as much time as I think you would maximally spend at the conference that goes from Friday to Sunday.
[01:06:58.010 --> 01:06:58.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[01:07:01.070 --> 01:07:01.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:07:01.790 --> 01:07:07.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, as far as talks that we're involved in, I know, Alex, you're involved in two talks.
[01:07:07.570 --> 01:07:08.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you want to tell us about those?
[01:07:10.130 --> 01:07:11.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: Am I involved in two?
[01:07:11.490 --> 01:07:12.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: I thought I was just involved in one.
[01:07:13.170 --> 01:07:13.330]  [ALEXURBELS]: Wow.
[01:07:13.450 --> 01:07:13.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[01:07:14.190 --> 01:07:15.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: You're involved in two talks.
[01:07:16.290 --> 01:07:17.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: I thought it was true.
[01:07:17.570 --> 01:07:21.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's been a while since we've laid this out, hasn't it?
[01:07:21.690 --> 01:07:22.110]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:07:22.350 --> 01:07:26.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I'm involved in it, but I'm not giving my own talk.
[01:07:26.970 --> 01:07:28.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, you're a moderator to two talks.
[01:07:29.810 --> 01:07:30.230]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:07:31.110 --> 01:07:36.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I think one of them is going to be really, really super interesting, right?
[01:07:36.910 --> 01:07:43.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: We're going to have Emma Best from Distributed Nile of Secrets.
[01:07:43.490 --> 01:07:50.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: And we're going to have a couple other journalists, one of which, one of whom, rather, is Raphael Satter from Reuters.
[01:07:51.110 --> 01:07:57.230]  [ALEXURBELS]: And we're going to be talking about the Epstein leaks with a hacker by the name of Curier.
[01:07:58.550 --> 01:08:14.870]  [ALEXURBELS]: And this hacker, I'm not sure if I'm saying his or her name right, but the hacker was involved in a breach of the Epstein documents and then had handed them over, a bunch of these Epstein files, over to Distributed Denial of Secrets.
[01:08:14.990 --> 01:08:19.970]  [ALEXURBELS]: So this is going to be, I think, a very interesting panel and conversation.
[01:08:19.970 --> 01:08:30.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: And the leaker, the hacker here, is going to be joining us remotely, obviously, for security reasons and for protective means.
[01:08:30.970 --> 01:08:34.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: But this is going to be a conversation that's not to be missed.
[01:08:34.410 --> 01:08:40.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: And we're going to be talking about some of the journalism that has come out of the Epstein files.
[01:08:41.550 --> 01:08:50.390]  [ALEXURBELS]: And in particular, I don't know if people have heard about this crazy story that Raphael Satter had covered for Reuters.
[01:08:50.930 --> 01:08:55.230]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it was just f*cking insane, when you think about it.
[01:08:55.390 --> 01:09:12.130]  [ALEXURBELS]: So it turns out that several years before the Epstein files were released, there was actually a breach at the FBI of the Epstein files themselves, because there was an agent that was working on a lot of these files.
[01:09:12.310 --> 01:09:13.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: And he wanted some...
[01:09:13.770 --> 01:09:16.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: I may be butchering the facts a little bit, but I'm trying to get the gist of it here.
[01:09:16.830 --> 01:09:21.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: But he wanted to engage in some kind of remote work.
[01:09:21.610 --> 01:09:28.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so he set up this remote working environment where a lot of these Epstein files and various things were on this server.
[01:09:29.110 --> 01:09:34.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, of course, this remotely accessible server wasn't secured properly.
[01:09:35.070 --> 01:09:42.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: Somebody had gained access to the server and then had seen a lot of materials on there that were quite concerning.
[01:09:42.690 --> 01:09:58.230]  [ALEXURBELS]: So the hacker who had breached these documents and records that the FBI itself was hosting was really put off by the fact that there were child sexual abuse materials on the repository of this server, on the data.
[01:09:58.890 --> 01:10:06.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: And the hacker basically sent a message to the person operating the server, which was the FBI, and said, I know what you're doing.
[01:10:06.550 --> 01:10:07.970]  [ALEXURBELS]: I know what you're up to.
[01:10:08.150 --> 01:10:09.510]  [ALEXURBELS]: Essentially, it's just a bit.
[01:10:11.130 --> 01:10:13.530]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I've seen the files that you have.
[01:10:13.790 --> 01:10:14.610]  [ALEXURBELS]: You're f*cked.
[01:10:14.630 --> 01:10:16.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: I'm going to report you to the FBI.
[01:10:16.490 --> 01:10:21.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: When it was the FBI, that it was actually posting these materials.
[01:10:22.490 --> 01:10:25.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so it's an absolutely extraordinary story.
[01:10:25.870 --> 01:10:26.050]  [ALEXURBELS]: Wow.
[01:10:26.270 --> 01:10:32.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: Where then the FBI had to convince the hacker who had breached the system that, actually, no, we are the FBI.
[01:10:32.690 --> 01:10:34.450]  [ALEXURBELS]: You breached our server.
[01:10:34.470 --> 01:10:35.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was a remote access server.
[01:10:36.130 --> 01:10:37.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, like, here's our credentials.
[01:10:38.090 --> 01:10:39.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: You don't have to report us.
[01:10:40.330 --> 01:10:41.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: We don't have to.
[01:10:42.590 --> 01:10:44.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: Were they afraid of being reported?
[01:10:44.430 --> 01:10:45.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, who is...
[01:10:45.450 --> 01:10:45.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: I guess.
[01:10:45.950 --> 01:10:46.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[01:10:47.010 --> 01:10:49.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: Were they also received the call reporting them?
[01:10:49.870 --> 01:10:50.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just...
[01:10:50.290 --> 01:10:50.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:10:50.410 --> 01:10:53.930]  [ALEXURBELS]: This is a good question to ask Raphael during the panel.
[01:10:54.310 --> 01:10:58.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, this one is going to have a lot of, I think, audience participation.
[01:10:58.410 --> 01:11:05.650]  [ALEXURBELS]: I want to make sure that we leave a lot of room for questions from the online audience and the physical in-person audience.
[01:11:06.590 --> 01:11:11.350]  [ALEXURBELS]: There's a lot of talks that I think are going to be awesome and fantastic.
[01:11:11.430 --> 01:11:11.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: And that's wonderful.
[01:11:12.230 --> 01:11:12.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh-huh.
[01:11:12.450 --> 01:11:17.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Now, the other one is BlueLeaks 2.0, which you're also a part of.
[01:11:17.770 --> 01:11:19.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think MFS is part of that one as well.
[01:11:20.010 --> 01:11:20.150]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yep.
[01:11:20.510 --> 01:11:20.710]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:11:20.930 --> 01:11:21.190]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:11:22.010 --> 01:11:27.350]  [ALEXURBELS]: And BlueLeaks, of course, is the data repository of stolen police data.
[01:11:27.610 --> 01:11:32.830]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, in fact, BlueLeaks 1.0 was really what got distributed secrets on the map.
[01:11:32.970 --> 01:11:46.450]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think they were one of the first or, I think, possibly the only organization that was hosting all of that BlueLeaks data and making it publicly available for researchers and whoever wanted to review that particular information.
[01:11:47.310 --> 01:11:48.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, yeah, that'll be an interesting one, too.
[01:11:48.950 --> 01:12:04.490]  [ALEXURBELS]: But far from my panels being, I think, the most interesting, I think, having seen a lot of the submissions come in, the several hundreds of them come in, this is an extraordinary lineup we have this year.
[01:12:04.490 --> 01:12:08.570]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it's at the New Yorker Hotel, where Tesla lived and died.
[01:12:09.050 --> 01:12:10.310]  [ALEXURBELS]: And there's a vibe there.
[01:12:10.450 --> 01:12:11.210]  [ALEXURBELS]: You feel it.
[01:12:11.390 --> 01:12:12.290]  [ALEXURBELS]: There's something...
[01:12:12.290 --> 01:12:13.550]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think there's magic in the air.
[01:12:13.770 --> 01:12:14.730]  [ALEXURBELS]: I keep saying it.
[01:12:14.770 --> 01:12:16.430]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think this is going to be one of the best HOPEs yet.
[01:12:17.030 --> 01:12:17.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: I do, too.
[01:12:17.770 --> 01:12:18.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: I really do.
[01:12:18.410 --> 01:12:19.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's got this...
[01:12:19.910 --> 01:12:23.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know, just this feeling of happiness as far as just here we are again.
[01:12:25.350 --> 01:12:26.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's going to be fun.
[01:12:26.570 --> 01:12:27.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's going to be a blast.
[01:12:27.590 --> 01:12:29.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not going to be massively crowded.
[01:12:29.330 --> 01:12:36.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to cede to that because that was a problem we had in the teens, 18, 16, 14.
[01:12:37.610 --> 01:12:38.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think we had too many people.
[01:12:39.290 --> 01:12:45.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: And this place isn't as massive, even though it's twice the height of Hotel Ben.
[01:12:45.610 --> 01:12:47.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: It has enough space for us.
[01:12:47.610 --> 01:12:48.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think it'll be...
[01:12:48.550 --> 01:12:56.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: For the people who come, I think they'll cherish it because they'll have much more access and they won't be crowded out of things.
[01:12:57.010 --> 01:12:58.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's really important to us.
[01:12:59.330 --> 01:13:03.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: One of the other talks, the one that I'm involved with, is with Rinaldi Santiago.
[01:13:04.270 --> 01:13:06.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know if you remember him.
[01:13:06.030 --> 01:13:07.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: He played Phantom Phreak in Hackers.
[01:13:08.550 --> 01:13:14.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: And he's going to be on stage telling stories about that production, about other things he's been up to.
[01:13:15.270 --> 01:13:18.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I was a consultant in that film, so I've got some memories of it as well.
[01:13:19.030 --> 01:13:21.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're trying to get some other people who were involved in addition.
[01:13:21.970 --> 01:13:23.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that's going to be interesting.
[01:13:23.170 --> 01:13:23.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's going to be fun.
[01:13:23.770 --> 01:13:33.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's weird because if you go back to the very first HOPE conference, which was 1994 at Hotel Pen, we had a hacker's panel.
[01:13:33.810 --> 01:13:41.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: We had a panel where the writers, writers, producers, director, I think, was even there.
[01:13:42.870 --> 01:13:43.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:13:43.590 --> 01:13:44.430]  [EVILCORLEY]: And 1994.
[01:13:45.190 --> 01:13:46.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: So the film came out in 1995.
[01:13:46.670 --> 01:13:48.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: They were filming it around that time.
[01:13:49.430 --> 01:13:50.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we had a blast.
[01:13:50.850 --> 01:13:51.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: We had such a blast.
[01:13:51.990 --> 01:13:56.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: So we're going to tell a bunch of stories and live some memories, maybe inspire some new productions.
[01:13:57.990 --> 01:14:02.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's just a very small slice of what's happening.
[01:14:03.030 --> 01:14:05.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: The conference is going Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
[01:14:05.490 --> 01:14:07.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to cram as much as we can.
[01:14:07.010 --> 01:14:07.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've got workshops.
[01:14:07.770 --> 01:14:08.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've got villages.
[01:14:08.570 --> 01:14:18.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: We've got a fourth track where people can basically on the spot sign up for something and give an impromptu talk.
[01:14:19.050 --> 01:14:22.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have the ham radio exam, which I understand, Alex, you're going to be taking.
[01:14:24.550 --> 01:14:25.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good luck with that.
[01:14:25.390 --> 01:14:26.770]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, that's still my intention.
[01:14:26.990 --> 01:14:29.190]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's still my intention, if anybody wants to bring it.
[01:14:29.190 --> 01:14:29.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh-huh.
[01:14:30.750 --> 01:14:31.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, cool.
[01:14:32.950 --> 01:14:34.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're not going to let you forget this.
[01:14:34.370 --> 01:14:35.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're going to make sure you take that test.
[01:14:36.470 --> 01:14:37.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: No chickening out of this.
[01:14:39.070 --> 01:14:39.670]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's right.
[01:14:39.850 --> 01:14:40.010]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:14:40.150 --> 01:14:40.590]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's right.
[01:14:40.790 --> 01:14:42.110]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, we will see.
[01:14:42.270 --> 01:14:44.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I'd be deeply embarrassed if I fail it.
[01:14:44.910 --> 01:14:50.450]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, if anybody asks, I'm going to say, I think Alex is taking the ham exam.
[01:14:51.050 --> 01:14:55.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, if you think it's as easy as the law exam, you really need a reality check.
[01:14:55.730 --> 01:14:58.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm just saying that right now, so you're not shocked.
[01:14:58.910 --> 01:15:04.370]  [ALEXURBELS]: The bar exam, I'm sure, was simple compared to the ham radio exam here.
[01:15:04.590 --> 01:15:05.650]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, I'm an operator.
[01:15:07.090 --> 01:15:14.130]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, but no, I'm looking forward to it, and everybody's very excited about welcoming into the ham community, and I'm excited to join it, too.
[01:15:15.010 --> 01:15:15.250]  [ALEXURBELS]: Great.
[01:15:15.690 --> 01:15:16.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead, Gila.
[01:15:16.550 --> 01:15:23.910]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, I did want to just say that, first of all, I'm glad that the Phantom Phreak has gotten out of jail in time to attend the panel.
[01:15:27.810 --> 01:15:29.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, that's one thing.
[01:15:30.090 --> 01:15:37.270]  [GILADRAZEN]: I did want to point out one other piece of the schedule, which is Saturday night.
[01:15:37.490 --> 01:15:38.790]  [GILADRAZEN]: What's happening Saturday night?
[01:15:38.850 --> 01:15:39.410]  [GILADRAZEN]: What's happening Saturday night?
[01:15:39.450 --> 01:15:40.250]  [GILADRAZEN]: What's happening Saturday night?
[01:15:40.630 --> 01:15:41.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: HGT.
[01:15:42.150 --> 01:15:42.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: HGT.
[01:15:42.830 --> 01:15:43.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're all going out dancing.
[01:15:44.390 --> 01:15:47.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: The 10th anniversary edition of HGT.
[01:15:48.530 --> 01:15:49.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: What does that stand for?
[01:15:49.730 --> 01:15:51.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: It stands for Hackers Got Talent.
[01:15:51.110 --> 01:15:51.870]  [GILADRAZEN]: Oh, cool.
[01:15:52.050 --> 01:15:52.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: You know it.
[01:15:54.070 --> 01:16:00.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: Rob and I are going to be your intrepid hosts this year, shall we say.
[01:16:01.670 --> 01:16:02.110]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes, indeed.
[01:16:02.470 --> 01:16:09.290]  [GILADRAZEN]: I would like to issue a challenge for Hackers Got Talent, because there's a particular talent I would like to see.
[01:16:09.690 --> 01:16:10.290]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, boy.
[01:16:10.370 --> 01:16:10.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What's that?
[01:16:10.790 --> 01:16:11.350]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What is it?
[01:16:11.450 --> 01:16:11.590]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:16:12.130 --> 01:16:16.370]  [GILADRAZEN]: I would like to see someone speed identify area codes.
[01:16:17.710 --> 01:16:18.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:16:18.370 --> 01:16:18.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, don't look at me.
[01:16:18.950 --> 01:16:19.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: I could do that once.
[01:16:20.650 --> 01:16:25.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: But there's all these crazy-ass area codes now that shouldn't be area codes.
[01:16:25.390 --> 01:16:28.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, what's the newest one that they have in Manhattan now?
[01:16:28.890 --> 01:16:29.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: Was it 929?
[01:16:30.310 --> 01:16:31.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: Was that the newest one?
[01:16:31.170 --> 01:16:32.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or is there another one now?
[01:16:32.290 --> 01:16:33.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: I mean, 929 is not Manhattan.
[01:16:33.770 --> 01:16:35.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: We have a 929 phone number.
[01:16:35.310 --> 01:16:36.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: See, nobody even knows where they belong.
[01:16:37.650 --> 01:16:38.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: Nothing's geographic anymore.
[01:16:39.290 --> 01:16:42.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: People call you from, like, you know, various area codes.
[01:16:42.690 --> 01:16:44.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: You think they're in Los Angeles, and they're next door to you.
[01:16:45.070 --> 01:16:45.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know?
[01:16:45.710 --> 01:16:46.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: How are you supposed to handle that?
[01:16:47.750 --> 01:16:49.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: Well, you know, it's a fun thing.
[01:16:49.490 --> 01:16:54.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: So I did want to push through a couple of questions from our current audience.
[01:16:57.150 --> 01:16:58.230]  [GILADRAZEN]: We had a question.
[01:16:58.230 --> 01:16:59.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: Are we the whole hotel yet?
[01:16:59.930 --> 01:17:00.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are we what now?
[01:17:01.050 --> 01:17:02.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: Are we the whole hotel yet?
[01:17:02.350 --> 01:17:02.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: What does that mean?
[01:17:02.830 --> 01:17:03.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are we the whole hotel?
[01:17:03.730 --> 01:17:05.050]  [GILADRAZEN]: Are we the whole hotel?
[01:17:05.230 --> 01:17:08.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: Are we more of the rooms than not?
[01:17:09.630 --> 01:17:11.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're the biggest group in that.
[01:17:11.650 --> 01:17:12.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think there's another group in there.
[01:17:13.650 --> 01:17:15.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: And there's certainly more people in the hotel.
[01:17:15.610 --> 01:17:16.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a big hotel.
[01:17:16.730 --> 01:17:18.010]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's well over 1,000 rooms.
[01:17:18.870 --> 01:17:21.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's bigger than Hotel Penn, as far as amount of rooms.
[01:17:23.830 --> 01:17:26.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: So we're not taking up 100% of the space.
[01:17:26.490 --> 01:17:28.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're taking up a sizable amount of it.
[01:17:28.730 --> 01:17:29.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's put it that way.
[01:17:30.410 --> 01:17:30.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[01:17:30.850 --> 01:17:31.570]  [GILADRAZEN]: That was question number one.
[01:17:31.670 --> 01:17:32.130]  [GILADRAZEN]: Question number two.
[01:17:32.290 --> 01:17:34.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: Does the hotel rate include late checkout on Sunday?
[01:17:35.450 --> 01:17:36.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: That you'll have to ask them.
[01:17:37.030 --> 01:17:37.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: We're not in the hotel business.
[01:17:37.910 --> 01:17:38.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure.
[01:17:38.730 --> 01:17:40.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I'm sure they can arrange that.
[01:17:40.670 --> 01:17:46.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: I can tell you it includes free phone calls anywhere in the world, which I never thought would happen in a hotel.
[01:17:47.170 --> 01:17:49.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Wi-Fi, I believe, is also free.
[01:17:49.310 --> 01:17:50.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: So you have all that.
[01:17:50.770 --> 01:17:51.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's really kind of cool.
[01:17:57.410 --> 01:18:02.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Get on the phone and call Botswana from your room and stay on the phone all weekend long.
[01:18:02.620 --> 01:18:03.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's free.
[01:18:03.930 --> 01:18:04.960]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's going to be amazing.
[01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:08.660]  [GILADRAZEN]: Oh, are there still 976 numbers?
[01:18:08.750 --> 01:18:10.080]  [GILADRAZEN]: Could we call a 976 number?
[01:18:10.990 --> 01:18:12.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are there still 976 numbers?
[01:18:13.290 --> 01:18:14.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm asking.
[01:18:14.420 --> 01:18:14.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:15.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's an excellent question.
[01:18:15.710 --> 01:18:15.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:18:15.950 --> 01:18:19.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Who can name all four of the premium exchanges?
[01:18:21.730 --> 01:18:22.610]  [ALEXURBELS]: You have 36.
[01:18:22.610 --> 01:18:24.990]  [ALEXURBELS]: Are you thinking of 1-900 as well?
[01:18:25.150 --> 01:18:25.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: No, I'm not.
[01:18:25.530 --> 01:18:27.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's an area code, Alex.
[01:18:27.380 --> 01:18:30.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Area codes go before the exchange.
[01:18:31.070 --> 01:18:31.690]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, of course.
[01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:32.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yes.
[01:18:32.190 --> 01:18:32.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: That was an exchange.
[01:18:32.960 --> 01:18:33.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, this is local.
[01:18:34.870 --> 01:18:36.530]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think I only remember 976.
[01:18:36.530 --> 01:18:38.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: Was there 576, too?
[01:18:38.230 --> 01:18:39.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, and you were eliminated with that guess.
[01:18:41.010 --> 01:18:42.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob, Gila, any guesses from you?
[01:18:44.470 --> 01:18:46.650]  [ROBVINCENT]: I also only remember 976.
[01:18:46.690 --> 01:18:47.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Rob, you should know this.
[01:18:48.120 --> 01:18:49.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: You should know this.
[01:18:49.730 --> 01:18:50.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, come on.
[01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:54.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think we talked about it during our first show in the 80s.
[01:18:54.420 --> 01:18:56.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, Kyle, you're exempt because you're from Seattle.
[01:18:57.580 --> 01:18:58.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Can I also be exempt?
[01:18:58.690 --> 01:19:01.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know what they do out there as far as premium service numbers.
[01:19:02.230 --> 01:19:02.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, go ahead.
[01:19:02.870 --> 01:19:07.750]  [GILADRAZEN]: I didn't live in air shot of the show in the 80s.
[01:19:08.040 --> 01:19:12.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, but somehow you know everything about New York, so I don't know.
[01:19:12.810 --> 01:19:14.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's like you've always been here.
[01:19:14.460 --> 01:19:15.210]  [ROBVINCENT]: This is true.
[01:19:15.460 --> 01:19:17.460]  [ROBVINCENT]: But yeah, I'm off my game.
[01:19:17.570 --> 01:19:19.580]  [ROBVINCENT]: I can't bring up the other ones.
[01:19:19.830 --> 01:19:21.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, so there was 976.
[01:19:21.910 --> 01:19:24.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was the weather and the sports.
[01:19:25.770 --> 01:19:27.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know what else there was.
[01:19:27.300 --> 01:19:28.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: There were all kinds.
[01:19:28.650 --> 01:19:31.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, 976, 1212, and 1313.
[01:19:31.910 --> 01:19:34.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think they all pretty much went like that.
[01:19:34.450 --> 01:19:34.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: 1414.
[01:19:35.730 --> 01:19:37.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's got to be a guide somewhere to what they were.
[01:19:38.030 --> 01:19:43.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: I know they didn't use all the numbers, but they would charge a certain amount.
[01:19:43.380 --> 01:19:44.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: It wasn't a lot.
[01:19:44.460 --> 01:19:47.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was like maybe a quarter or something, which, you know, to a kid was a lot.
[01:19:47.990 --> 01:19:51.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: When you found out that all the times you called Santa Claus, it costs money.
[01:19:52.950 --> 01:19:56.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then there was 970, which was introduced later on.
[01:19:56.420 --> 01:20:01.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that was mostly for sex lines and other, like, really expensive calls.
[01:20:01.880 --> 01:20:04.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Like, they could be, like, you know, $5 a minute.
[01:20:05.050 --> 01:20:06.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was ridiculous.
[01:20:06.710 --> 01:20:08.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they got quite popular.
[01:20:08.190 --> 01:20:09.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: They were advertised all over the place.
[01:20:10.790 --> 01:20:14.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then there were two others, 540 and 550.
[01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:17.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think 550 was mostly conference calls.
[01:20:18.390 --> 01:20:23.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: You would basically just connect to other similar interest people.
[01:20:24.210 --> 01:20:24.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Party lines.
[01:20:24.800 --> 01:20:25.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, party lines.
[01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:31.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, we would do the same thing at WBAI with our 10-line phone.
[01:20:31.290 --> 01:20:33.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'd just keep pressing the buttons and everybody would be able to talk to each other.
[01:20:34.410 --> 01:20:37.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think our first show in 1988, we did just that.
[01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:40.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: We had a three-hour show in the middle of the night.
[01:20:40.500 --> 01:20:42.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we just had all these people connect to each other.
[01:20:42.500 --> 01:20:43.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's still online.
[01:20:43.570 --> 01:20:46.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go to 2600.com/offthehook.
[01:20:46.230 --> 01:20:47.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can hear the first show.
[01:20:47.230 --> 01:20:52.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, memory escapes what the difference between 540 and 970 was.
[01:20:52.500 --> 01:20:56.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sure if Rebel were here, and he's not, he's in Europe, I think, he would tell us.
[01:20:56.610 --> 01:20:57.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe he would tell us.
[01:20:57.870 --> 01:21:02.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: But those were four interesting exchanges that I don't think exist anymore.
[01:21:03.320 --> 01:21:06.070]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, what about, what about as a premium exchange?
[01:21:06.340 --> 01:21:07.790]  [ALEXURBELS]: Would 555 qualify?
[01:21:08.070 --> 01:21:11.410]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because 555-1212 would result in a premium charge.
[01:21:11.580 --> 01:21:14.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, hold on a second, Alex, before you spread misinformation around.
[01:21:15.110 --> 01:21:21.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: 555-1212 is another way of dialing 411, both of which are directory assistance or information.
[01:21:21.380 --> 01:21:27.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that used to not cost anything for a long, long time until they decided to start charging for it.
[01:21:27.870 --> 01:21:32.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then it became something that was indeed a premium.
[01:21:32.270 --> 01:21:33.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: I wouldn't call it a premium.
[01:21:33.380 --> 01:21:34.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: It just was a ripoff.
[01:21:35.050 --> 01:21:40.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: And calling any area code, 555-1212, also used to be free.
[01:21:40.570 --> 01:21:45.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that was awesome, because that's kind of how I cut my teeth in exploring the phone system.
[01:21:45.490 --> 01:21:47.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: I would call, you know, an area code.
[01:21:47.730 --> 01:21:52.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: You would hear this hiss, which was long distance kicking in, the trunk lines and all that.
[01:21:52.500 --> 01:21:56.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you'd wind up talking to an information operator, an actual information operator to pick up.
[01:21:57.040 --> 01:21:58.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Not a computer, an information operator.
[01:21:59.210 --> 01:22:04.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, you know, in high school, we'd just ask how the weather was or something, you know, crazy like that.
[01:22:05.030 --> 01:22:08.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: And just relish the fact that we're talking to somebody so far away.
[01:22:08.750 --> 01:22:11.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then we realized we could do it in Canada as well.
[01:22:11.570 --> 01:22:21.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the real cherry on top of everything was realizing that international information was also completely free.
[01:22:21.670 --> 01:22:22.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: You couldn't dial it direct.
[01:22:22.960 --> 01:22:27.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: You'd have to call the operator and say, I need directory assistance in Jordan or something.
[01:22:27.830 --> 01:22:29.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they would connect you.
[01:22:29.230 --> 01:22:32.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you'd hear all kinds of phone sounds.
[01:22:33.310 --> 01:22:42.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: On one of my first radio shows, Voice of Long Island, on WUSB, which is also on 2600.com, we would call international operators all the time.
[01:22:42.870 --> 01:22:45.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'd be always looking for Oscar's all-night kosher deli.
[01:22:47.040 --> 01:22:49.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we almost found it once.
[01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:52.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think in Madagascar, the operator said, oh, yes.
[01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:54.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: But no, it wasn't that.
[01:22:55.450 --> 01:22:59.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: But the sounds that got captured and recorded, they're priceless.
[01:22:59.150 --> 01:23:03.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can't find those unless you're listening to Evan Dorbell's recordings.
[01:23:04.210 --> 01:23:06.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I think some of the things we did, even he didn't do.
[01:23:06.870 --> 01:23:13.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, yeah, you know, those exchanges, they led to all kinds of exploration.
[01:23:13.030 --> 01:23:15.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it really mattered.
[01:23:15.490 --> 01:23:15.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila?
[01:23:16.620 --> 01:23:22.690]  [GILADRAZEN]: Rebel has actually written in and said 394 was the smaller one.
[01:23:22.950 --> 01:23:23.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: 394.
[01:23:23.620 --> 01:23:25.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's one I never understood.
[01:23:25.080 --> 01:23:27.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: But that was sort of a premium exchange.
[01:23:27.570 --> 01:23:31.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: And 955, he said, is an exchange that radio stations have.
[01:23:31.840 --> 01:23:34.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, 955 was like a mass exchange.
[01:23:34.040 --> 01:23:43.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, if a radio station was having a contest, they would say, call 955 WBAI or something, and that you could handle 1,000 calls at once.
[01:23:44.170 --> 01:23:46.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: You'd have to have the hardware on the other end to handle it.
[01:23:46.620 --> 01:23:50.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: But the switch itself was designed to handle a massive amount of calls coming in.
[01:23:51.030 --> 01:23:52.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, that's what 955 was all about.
[01:23:52.830 --> 01:23:55.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think it cost any extra to call that exchange, though.
[01:23:56.070 --> 01:23:57.270]  [GILADRAZEN]: That might still exist.
[01:23:57.980 --> 01:24:01.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: We do have a few people who mentioned Ms. Cleo.
[01:24:01.530 --> 01:24:19.950]  [GILADRAZEN]: I would like to annoyingly, annoyedly mention the people I worked with who prank called me once with a Ms. Cleo soundboard until they started laughing too hard and they had to hang up the phone.
[01:24:20.770 --> 01:24:22.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, that was super fun.
[01:24:25.210 --> 01:24:25.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: Incredibly annoying.
[01:24:26.910 --> 01:24:32.160]  [GILADRAZEN]: And someone just wrote in and said the information numbers had a hidden test trunk that you could access with DTMF tone D.
[01:24:32.580 --> 01:24:33.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's true.
[01:24:33.380 --> 01:24:33.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's true.
[01:24:34.120 --> 01:24:35.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't think you could do it locally.
[01:24:35.750 --> 01:24:38.150]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think you have to call something with an area code.
[01:24:38.150 --> 01:24:46.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: But if you lean down on the D key, which is the missing fourth row of touchstones, to the right of 3, 6, 9 pound.
[01:24:46.990 --> 01:24:48.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: We called them A, B, C, D.
[01:24:48.750 --> 01:24:50.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: And in the military, they had different names for them.
[01:24:50.830 --> 01:24:57.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: But if you leaned on the bottom right, which was D, you would hear a pulsating dial tone.
[01:24:58.670 --> 01:25:01.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you would be able to connect to somebody else who did the same thing.
[01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:02.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that didn't cost anything.
[01:25:02.690 --> 01:25:06.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it was really cool to talk to somebody that you didn't know who it was or where they were.
[01:25:09.380 --> 01:25:09.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:25:12.150 --> 01:25:18.080]  [ROBVINCENT]: Speaking of talking to folks, do we want to invite folks to talk with us tonight?
[01:25:18.340 --> 01:25:19.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: I suppose we do.
[01:25:19.530 --> 01:25:20.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: We can do that.
[01:25:20.380 --> 01:25:20.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know.
[01:25:20.770 --> 01:25:21.270]  [ROBVINCENT]: We're having fun.
[01:25:24.420 --> 01:25:28.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I'm going to give out the phone number and I'll activate the phone line.
[01:25:30.040 --> 01:25:30.620]  [ROBVINCENT]: All right.
[01:25:30.710 --> 01:25:31.210]  [ROBVINCENT]: You go well.
[01:25:32.070 --> 01:25:41.070]  [ROBVINCENT]: I will say that you can join in our conversation with the United States telephone number, 802-321-4225.
[01:25:41.380 --> 01:25:43.910]  [ROBVINCENT]: That spells out 802-321-HACK.
[01:25:44.780 --> 01:25:48.540]  [ROBVINCENT]: And get in touch with us and tell us what's on your mind.
[01:25:48.800 --> 01:25:51.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: There are no operators standing by because they don't exist.
[01:25:51.230 --> 01:25:54.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: But the phone will ring and we'll try to pick it up.
[01:25:54.150 --> 01:25:55.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: And well, there it goes right now.
[01:25:56.000 --> 01:25:57.250]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Oh, so what am I?
[01:25:57.370 --> 01:26:01.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: I guess you're the person pressing the button, which is the closest thing to an operator we have.
[01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:02.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:26:02.610 --> 01:26:04.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:26:04.660 --> 01:26:05.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:26:06.270 --> 01:26:06.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:26:06.950 --> 01:26:07.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: I hear myself.
[01:26:07.730 --> 01:26:08.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: I hear myself.
[01:26:08.370 --> 01:26:09.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is what I sound like to people?
[01:26:09.380 --> 01:26:10.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is what I sound like to people?
[01:26:10.890 --> 01:26:11.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:26:14.430 --> 01:26:16.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's what's happened to the phone system of today.
[01:26:16.850 --> 01:26:18.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the quality of conversation you get.
[01:26:19.570 --> 01:26:21.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Man, it used to be so different.
[01:26:21.910 --> 01:26:22.670]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Good listener.
[01:26:22.950 --> 01:26:23.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: You want to try this one?
[01:26:25.850 --> 01:26:26.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:26:26.910 --> 01:26:27.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: And good evening.
[01:26:27.870 --> 01:26:29.310]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:26:29.390 --> 01:26:29.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[01:26:30.370 --> 01:26:31.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
[01:26:31.110 --> 01:26:32.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe it.
[01:26:32.210 --> 01:26:34.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: I just...
[01:26:34.170 --> 01:26:39.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: I am enjoying the skit about the 976 numbers.
[01:26:39.130 --> 01:26:42.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: It reminds me of a more innocent time.
[01:26:43.230 --> 01:26:49.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember if it was 976-1616 or 1212.
[01:26:49.950 --> 01:26:53.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: You could call and be told what time it was.
[01:26:53.970 --> 01:26:54.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, yes.
[01:26:54.970 --> 01:26:55.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: The time.
[01:26:55.870 --> 01:26:58.670]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or as they say in England, the speaking clock.
[01:26:59.690 --> 01:27:00.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.
[01:27:00.710 --> 01:27:02.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly what it was.
[01:27:02.370 --> 01:27:14.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, well, I mean, now it's redundant because everybody, or almost everybody, not me, has a cell phone in their pocket that tells them exactly what time it is at any time.
[01:27:14.190 --> 01:27:18.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: But back then, maybe a wristwatch, but, you know, that could be wrong if you didn't wind it.
[01:27:18.310 --> 01:27:19.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: So you need to call something.
[01:27:20.050 --> 01:27:26.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: Maybe you turn on WCBS Newsradio 88 before they got taken off the air, and they'd give the time every now and then.
[01:27:26.210 --> 01:27:28.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: Or if you didn't live in New York, what'd you do?
[01:27:28.650 --> 01:27:30.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: You have to call a number to find out what time it is.
[01:27:30.690 --> 01:27:33.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: Same thing with the weather, or the sports scores, or whatnot.
[01:27:35.890 --> 01:27:36.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[01:27:37.670 --> 01:27:39.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember if I...
[01:27:39.430 --> 01:27:45.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I listened yesterday to either Overtime or the actual show.
[01:27:45.870 --> 01:27:51.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it wasn't the actual show last week, because it's a pain in the ass to get on the archives.
[01:27:52.190 --> 01:28:00.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you discuss the, which I missed, obviously, did you discuss the AI going off the ranch, supposedly?
[01:28:00.510 --> 01:28:02.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I don't think we ever got to that story.
[01:28:02.810 --> 01:28:03.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: Does somebody want to talk about that?
[01:28:06.450 --> 01:28:07.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Apparently not.
[01:28:07.450 --> 01:28:08.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Nobody wants to talk about that.
[01:28:08.610 --> 01:28:10.810]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Is this a security tool escaping open AI?
[01:28:11.330 --> 01:28:11.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:28:12.090 --> 01:28:12.750]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, yeah.
[01:28:13.630 --> 01:28:14.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's kind of scary.
[01:28:14.930 --> 01:28:17.410]  [EVILCORLEY]: Running down the block and, like, breaking into something else.
[01:28:17.550 --> 01:28:18.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is that the one you're...
[01:28:18.950 --> 01:28:19.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[01:28:20.210 --> 01:28:21.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you want to tell us about it, caller?
[01:28:22.390 --> 01:28:30.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, apparently, the update to the story yesterday was that it didn't happen just once.
[01:28:30.670 --> 01:28:32.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: It happened again and again.
[01:28:34.030 --> 01:28:35.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's hard to tell.
[01:28:36.090 --> 01:28:39.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: That was also the take on the stories that I read.
[01:28:39.050 --> 01:28:53.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether this is a publicity stunt on OpenAI, which is the company where apparently the jailbreak happened, or it's a real story.
[01:28:54.090 --> 01:29:12.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: I tend to think that it may be a little bit of both, because, you know, this is a perfect 2001 Space Odyssey, Hull type of story, which is going to tickle everybody's fears.
[01:29:13.750 --> 01:29:16.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it might have also happened.
[01:29:16.490 --> 01:29:21.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, somebody had to instruct this agent, right, and say, try to do this.
[01:29:23.110 --> 01:29:28.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because apparently, as far as I know, artificial intelligence doesn't think on its own yet.
[01:29:32.050 --> 01:29:36.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, yeah, I thought you might have gone to town with this.
[01:29:36.450 --> 01:29:37.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised you didn't.
[01:29:38.310 --> 01:29:46.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know, all the mainstream is talking about it, and I think we spend most of our time just correcting all the things that they would be getting wrong.
[01:29:47.570 --> 01:29:51.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we only have a few minutes every week to talk about those other things.
[01:29:52.290 --> 01:30:01.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm just expressing surprise, because I thought it would have been a story that would have interested you in some capacity.
[01:30:01.770 --> 01:30:01.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it did.
[01:30:02.070 --> 01:30:02.730]  [KYLEDROSDK]: It's in our list.
[01:30:02.910 --> 01:30:03.790]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, we did see it.
[01:30:03.890 --> 01:30:09.210]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Sometimes we let the dust settle, you know, and then get to it a little bit later when there's been a little bit more reporting.
[01:30:10.070 --> 01:30:13.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the sound of all the stories I didn't get to this week, you know?
[01:30:13.450 --> 01:30:15.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have a whole stack of papers.
[01:30:15.510 --> 01:30:24.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: We could be on the air for six hours talking about these things, but sometimes we get into an argument or a debate, and that, you know, everything else just falls apart, and we don't get to it.
[01:30:25.130 --> 01:30:25.830]  [ROBVINCENT]: Oh, no, it doesn't.
[01:30:26.430 --> 01:30:27.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, it does.
[01:30:27.710 --> 01:30:29.330]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, I see what you're doing.
[01:30:29.970 --> 01:30:31.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: See, that's what I have to deal with.
[01:30:34.470 --> 01:30:35.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[01:30:35.210 --> 01:30:56.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, when I saw the story, which was very fresh yesterday, of the Homeland Security forcing this poor punter to erase his phone to avoid self-incrimination, I thought that you would immediately jump on it, as you rightly did.
[01:30:56.850 --> 01:31:11.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: It is a good thing, and it's a great thing that you have a lawyer on staff, which provided some interesting insights that I and probably many people would have not thought of on their own.
[01:31:12.530 --> 01:31:19.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: And especially, you know, it sort of dovetails with Fauci, as you rightly pointed out.
[01:31:19.550 --> 01:31:21.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, the Fifth Amendment was in the air today.
[01:31:21.770 --> 01:31:22.470]  [EVILCORLEY]: It just felt right.
[01:31:24.310 --> 01:31:27.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, listen, that's pretty much all that is on my mind.
[01:31:27.550 --> 01:31:32.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is there still time to propose seminars for the HOPE?
[01:31:32.370 --> 01:31:33.650]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, I don't think so.
[01:31:34.030 --> 01:31:37.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, I mean, you can have a fourth-track talk.
[01:31:37.590 --> 01:31:42.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you come to the conference and sign up, you can give a talk in the fourth track.
[01:31:43.130 --> 01:31:44.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the unscheduled track.
[01:31:45.330 --> 01:31:46.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, okay.
[01:31:46.310 --> 01:31:48.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: And how much will that send me back?
[01:31:48.590 --> 01:31:52.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's one thing you haven't said on the radio or even here.
[01:31:52.310 --> 01:31:57.850]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, we don't give out prices on the radio, but the conference is $250 for the weekend.
[01:31:59.490 --> 01:31:59.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[01:32:00.150 --> 01:32:04.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, and that is full access to the entire...
[01:32:04.810 --> 01:32:11.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: To all the tracks, all the workshops, all the villages, and whatever else happens in that space.
[01:32:11.690 --> 01:32:17.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: Plus, you know, you have all this activity happening around you that we can't even predict what it's going to be.
[01:32:18.530 --> 01:32:18.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay.
[01:32:19.410 --> 01:32:19.630]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Great.
[01:32:19.630 --> 01:32:25.270]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, we're trying to get people to tell us what they're planning on doing because there's so much activity.
[01:32:25.510 --> 01:32:36.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just keep hearing from people that I haven't seen in years saying, oh, I'm coming to this one because, you know, it's in the right place, it's conveniently located, it's fairly cheap to stay in as far as...
[01:32:36.890 --> 01:32:41.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, as far as hotels in midtown Manhattan, it's pennies, you know?
[01:32:42.730 --> 01:32:49.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: As Alex rightly pointed out, Tesla did live and die right in there.
[01:32:49.630 --> 01:32:50.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[01:32:50.350 --> 01:32:54.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it actually died there, but that's, you know, the fire happening there.
[01:32:54.370 --> 01:32:55.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's two rooms.
[01:32:55.670 --> 01:32:56.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Each has a plaque.
[01:32:56.970 --> 01:33:00.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure if he lived in one and died in the other or how that works exactly.
[01:33:00.730 --> 01:33:03.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think they were connected before they separated them.
[01:33:04.910 --> 01:33:12.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: But, yeah, you know, it's definitely a bit of history and I'm glad the hotel is, you know, thoughtful enough to preserve it.
[01:33:12.530 --> 01:33:19.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: Also, there's a museum downstairs that goes into this and a whole lot more of the history of the hotel, so that's definitely worth a check.
[01:33:19.250 --> 01:33:20.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's right next to the gym.
[01:33:20.870 --> 01:33:22.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that.
[01:33:22.870 --> 01:33:23.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[01:33:23.530 --> 01:33:34.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've been going to that hotel for work reasons to interact with guests, but groups stay there, especially foreign groups, or used to.
[01:33:35.110 --> 01:33:37.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't been there in a number of years.
[01:33:37.390 --> 01:33:40.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm embarrassed to say I'd never been in the hotel until this year.
[01:33:40.930 --> 01:33:41.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
[01:33:42.330 --> 01:33:44.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: It is a fascinating place.
[01:33:45.130 --> 01:33:57.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as I said, I haven't been there in many years, but the security arrangements they had, it's basically like a maze and different entities operated on different floors.
[01:33:57.830 --> 01:34:08.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, which, you know, it's just like Hotel Penn in that regard, because there were mazes everywhere, different organizations on different floors, except there's a whole lot more floors in this one.
[01:34:09.350 --> 01:34:10.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, indeed.
[01:34:11.210 --> 01:34:12.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, best of luck, guys.
[01:34:12.870 --> 01:34:20.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: I hope it's going to be a smashing success, and many happy returns.
[01:34:20.390 --> 01:34:20.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, thanks.
[01:34:20.810 --> 01:34:22.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: We look forward to seeing you there.
[01:34:23.270 --> 01:34:26.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll clear the line so someone else can talk.
[01:34:26.250 --> 01:34:26.510]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:34:26.790 --> 01:34:27.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Thanks for calling.
[01:34:28.050 --> 01:34:28.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[01:34:28.730 --> 01:34:28.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[01:34:30.250 --> 01:34:33.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
[01:34:38.210 --> 01:34:38.870]  [ROBVINCENT]: Oh, yeah.
[01:34:39.030 --> 01:34:40.610]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'm still thinking about Hackers Got Talent.
[01:34:41.210 --> 01:34:41.910]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm very excited.
[01:34:42.030 --> 01:34:42.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: I also have another question.
[01:34:44.110 --> 01:34:47.030]  [GILADRAZEN]: By any chance, was the place you went Tacos del Barrio?
[01:34:47.410 --> 01:34:47.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[01:34:49.210 --> 01:34:51.130]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you left out the number one part.
[01:34:51.630 --> 01:34:52.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, one.
[01:34:52.530 --> 01:34:53.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, number one.
[01:34:53.150 --> 01:34:53.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: But yes.
[01:34:53.870 --> 01:34:54.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think so.
[01:34:54.910 --> 01:34:55.070]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:34:55.430 --> 01:34:55.570]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[01:34:55.570 --> 01:34:59.150]  [GILADRAZEN]: So there's Tacos del Barrio, which is at 270 West 39th.
[01:34:59.350 --> 01:35:00.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:35:01.290 --> 01:35:02.430]  [GILADRAZEN]: A Tacos number one?
[01:35:02.610 --> 01:35:02.850]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:35:03.050 --> 01:35:03.170]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:35:03.470 --> 01:35:04.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Los Tacos.
[01:35:04.690 --> 01:35:05.210]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Los Tacos.
[01:35:05.770 --> 01:35:07.110]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You want more than one.
[01:35:07.430 --> 01:35:07.530]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:35:07.890 --> 01:35:07.950]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:35:08.350 --> 01:35:09.090]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Los Tacos.
[01:35:09.290 --> 01:35:10.050]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Los Tacos number one.
[01:35:10.250 --> 01:35:13.750]  [EVILCORLEY]: So 33rd Street, just west of 7th Avenue.
[01:35:14.950 --> 01:35:15.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[01:35:15.450 --> 01:35:19.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: Because I think, call me crazy, I think Tacos del Barrio might be even closer.
[01:35:20.230 --> 01:35:24.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't see how 39th Street gets closer than 33rd Street to 34th Street.
[01:35:27.150 --> 01:35:27.710]  [EVILCORLEY]: Touché.
[01:35:27.910 --> 01:35:28.190]  [EVILCORLEY]: Touché.
[01:35:28.710 --> 01:35:29.490]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's fantastic.
[01:35:29.750 --> 01:35:30.730]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's all math, you know?
[01:35:30.970 --> 01:35:33.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: New York is a very mathematically oriented city.
[01:35:33.550 --> 01:35:34.170]  [GILADRAZEN]: It is.
[01:35:34.330 --> 01:35:54.430]  [GILADRAZEN]: I also would like to mention one thing, which is that one thing I personally would like to do, and I believe I've mentioned this, is that there is a place that is one avenue away called the Break Bar, which is, I think, going to be a lot of fun.
[01:35:54.430 --> 01:35:58.750]  [GILADRAZEN]: And I'm interested in checking that out on Saturday night, so maybe...
[01:35:59.470 --> 01:36:01.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: Tell us about the Break Bar, because we've gotten...
[01:36:01.630 --> 01:36:03.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I meant to mention this, too.
[01:36:03.470 --> 01:36:04.890]  [EVILCORLEY]: I should have mentioned that on WBAI.
[01:36:05.110 --> 01:36:14.450]  [EVILCORLEY]: But there is a bar called the Taylor Public House, and its address, and Alex, you'll like this, its address is 505 8th Avenue.
[01:36:15.050 --> 01:36:17.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: Does that address ring a bell to you?
[01:36:17.590 --> 01:36:20.810]  [ALEXURBELS]: That was the location of WBAI in the 90s.
[01:36:20.810 --> 01:36:21.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's right, that's right.
[01:36:21.790 --> 01:36:26.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: We were on the, what was it, the 17th floor of that building?
[01:36:26.310 --> 01:36:27.970]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the bar is not up there.
[01:36:28.050 --> 01:36:31.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: The bar is on the ground floor, but still, it's the same damn address, and I thought that was amazing.
[01:36:31.470 --> 01:36:34.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's one of the bars that we're recommending to people.
[01:36:34.490 --> 01:36:37.950]  [EVILCORLEY]: There are other bars as well, but Gila, can you tell us about this Break Bar?
[01:36:38.030 --> 01:36:41.390]  [GILADRAZEN]: I will absolutely tell you about the Break Bar, but there is one piece of information about Los Tacos No.
[01:36:41.450 --> 01:36:43.310]  [GILADRAZEN]: 1 that I do feel honor-bound to share.
[01:36:43.430 --> 01:36:43.690]  [EVILCORLEY]: Please.
[01:36:50.990 --> 01:36:53.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: So for the vegetarians, that's not a friendly place to be.
[01:36:54.230 --> 01:36:55.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's the best lard I've ever had in my life, then.
[01:36:56.350 --> 01:37:00.770]  [GILADRAZEN]: So for those of us who are not lard consumers, that is just something to be aware of.
[01:37:01.290 --> 01:37:05.530]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you are a lard consumer, though, be prepared to wait at least 25 minutes online for these things.
[01:37:05.670 --> 01:37:06.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's really incredible, though.
[01:37:07.110 --> 01:37:12.610]  [EVILCORLEY]: You saw this place when they, okay, every time something happens near Penn Station, you see this place.
[01:37:12.750 --> 01:37:20.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: When the LIRR was on strike, and everybody was walking around and picket, you know, carrying picket signs, they were walking around right outside that taco place.
[01:37:20.570 --> 01:37:22.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: And there's a reason for that, too, because they're not stupid.
[01:37:23.610 --> 01:37:26.830]  [EVILCORLEY]: They knew that when they got their break, that's exactly where they were going.
[01:37:27.070 --> 01:37:32.630]  [EVILCORLEY]: And actually, you know, walking around circles counts as being online for, you know, a good part of that.
[01:37:33.090 --> 01:37:35.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: Also, when the Knicks were playing, you saw them there, too.
[01:37:35.510 --> 01:37:39.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: It was right by one of the viewing areas and the World Cup.
[01:37:39.990 --> 01:37:41.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: You just see them all the time.
[01:37:41.430 --> 01:37:42.410]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They have cactus tacos.
[01:37:42.630 --> 01:37:43.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: They have cactus tacos.
[01:37:43.670 --> 01:37:45.250]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure if that has lard in it as well.
[01:37:45.750 --> 01:37:48.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: It does not, but the beans do.
[01:37:50.570 --> 01:37:51.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, and they're free.
[01:37:52.370 --> 01:37:53.930]  [EVILCORLEY]: They're crunchy and they're free.
[01:37:54.610 --> 01:37:54.990]  [GILADRAZEN]: Fantastic.
[01:37:55.390 --> 01:37:56.270]  [GILADRAZEN]: Oh, so the break bar.
[01:37:56.670 --> 01:37:58.830]  [GILADRAZEN]: The break bar is on 9th Avenue.
[01:37:59.270 --> 01:38:10.650]  [GILADRAZEN]: And the deal with the break bar is when you get a drink, you are then cordially invited to go to the throwing area and break your glass.
[01:38:11.430 --> 01:38:16.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, this is, it's like axe throwing, but easier when you're drunk.
[01:38:16.550 --> 01:38:22.550]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it's, um, you can get like a, one of the specials there is a bucket of empty bottles.
[01:38:23.990 --> 01:38:26.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: What, uh, what, what inspired this?
[01:38:26.510 --> 01:38:26.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: I wonder.
[01:38:28.050 --> 01:38:30.790]  [GILADRAZEN]: I mean, for me to be interested in it or just a general...
[01:38:31.390 --> 01:38:34.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, are these angry people who started this bar or what exactly prompted them?
[01:38:35.670 --> 01:38:37.590]  [GILADRAZEN]: Uh, it is an excellent question.
[01:38:37.590 --> 01:38:41.210]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm assuming it's just a letting off steam kind of situation.
[01:38:41.290 --> 01:38:44.810]  [GILADRAZEN]: And, um, I'm tremendously excited.
[01:38:46.030 --> 01:38:46.430]  [ROBVINCENT]: So...
[01:38:46.430 --> 01:38:47.870]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, this is something we'll be checking out.
[01:38:47.970 --> 01:38:49.310]  [ROBVINCENT]: This is definitely something we'll be checking out.
[01:38:49.370 --> 01:38:51.190]  [ROBVINCENT]: Well, I don't do bars, but I'm about to do this one.
[01:38:51.210 --> 01:38:54.770]  [EVILCORLEY]: The glass companies must love them because they keep restocking constantly.
[01:38:54.970 --> 01:38:55.290]  [GILADRAZEN]: Absolutely.
[01:38:55.570 --> 01:38:59.350]  [GILADRAZEN]: And you know, they, there's a, one of the specials they have is a pickleback.
[01:38:59.350 --> 01:39:01.450]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm a huge, I'm a huge pickleback fan.
[01:39:01.630 --> 01:39:01.710]  [GILADRAZEN]: Oh, yeah.
[01:39:01.830 --> 01:39:02.190]  [GILADRAZEN]: Hell yeah.
[01:39:02.690 --> 01:39:06.630]  [GILADRAZEN]: And they're like, hey, if you get a pickleback, it comes with two shot glasses to break.
[01:39:07.450 --> 01:39:07.810]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:39:07.970 --> 01:39:09.790]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can really hurl a shot glass far.
[01:39:11.110 --> 01:39:11.470]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah.
[01:39:11.690 --> 01:39:14.730]  [GILADRAZEN]: So, I'm very, very excited about this little excursion.
[01:39:14.910 --> 01:39:15.870]  [GILADRAZEN]: And we're going to have a good time.
[01:39:16.030 --> 01:39:18.090]  [EVILCORLEY]: A shot glass doesn't break when you drop it on the ground, though.
[01:39:18.150 --> 01:39:20.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: You have to, you have to throw that with...
[01:39:20.030 --> 01:39:21.890]  [GILADRAZEN]: You have to throw it hard against the wall.
[01:39:22.090 --> 01:39:22.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:39:22.350 --> 01:39:23.210]  [EVILCORLEY]: It requires intent.
[01:39:23.790 --> 01:39:23.990]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:39:25.030 --> 01:39:25.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:39:25.410 --> 01:39:27.270]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I'll definitely be there to throw...
[01:39:27.270 --> 01:39:29.230]  [EVILCORLEY]: Can you bring your own glass or you have to get their glass?
[01:39:30.130 --> 01:39:32.350]  [GILADRAZEN]: You know, I don't know if you're allowed to bring in your own breakables.
[01:39:34.650 --> 01:39:36.290]  [GILADRAZEN]: I guess we can try to find that out.
[01:39:36.510 --> 01:39:40.070]  [GILADRAZEN]: But, yes, I'm so psyched to get to go to Break Bar.
[01:39:42.850 --> 01:39:43.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Only in New York.
[01:39:43.930 --> 01:39:44.370]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do we have a call?
[01:39:45.830 --> 01:39:46.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: We have a call.
[01:39:46.510 --> 01:39:47.350]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry, caller.
[01:39:47.470 --> 01:39:48.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: We left you on hold for a very long time.
[01:39:49.270 --> 01:39:49.570]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:39:49.710 --> 01:39:50.290]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Overtime.
[01:39:52.470 --> 01:39:52.910]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[01:39:52.990 --> 01:39:53.170]  [EVILCORLEY]: Speak.
[01:39:54.530 --> 01:39:55.550]  [EVILCORLEY]: They fell asleep, I think.
[01:39:57.310 --> 01:39:57.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Somebody there?
[01:39:59.990 --> 01:40:01.110]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's sad.
[01:40:01.830 --> 01:40:02.030]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:40:02.230 --> 01:40:03.870]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, let's take another one.
[01:40:04.830 --> 01:40:06.390]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[01:40:07.290 --> 01:40:11.590]  [EVILCORLEY]: And if you do get put on hold, try to stay awake or don't wander away.
[01:40:15.220 --> 01:40:16.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: It happens.
[01:40:17.340 --> 01:40:25.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm realizing now how much fun HOPE is going to be because we've been working constantly, you know, and it's been one challenge after another.
[01:40:25.480 --> 01:40:29.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: But talking about these things makes me realize, yeah, it's going to be a blast as well.
[01:40:30.480 --> 01:40:32.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: And hopefully we get to experience some of that.
[01:40:32.720 --> 01:40:38.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: But mostly, you know, it's for the people coming to New York and just being a part of a unique event.
[01:40:38.080 --> 01:40:41.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's, you know, to us, that's success.
[01:40:41.620 --> 01:40:43.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because these places are always here.
[01:40:43.560 --> 01:40:46.620]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, you're going to be in close quarters.
[01:40:46.620 --> 01:40:53.080]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You're going to contact, you know, make contacts, network, you know, those like conversations all the way around.
[01:40:54.120 --> 01:40:59.140]  [KYLEDROSDK]: From the diner, you know, out on the street, from some of these other events.
[01:40:59.360 --> 01:41:06.260]  [KYLEDROSDK]: But you just have this opportunity to mix it up and meet people, socialize, and talk about some of these things.
[01:41:06.360 --> 01:41:08.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Talk about things that you're interested in or listen.
[01:41:08.700 --> 01:41:10.440]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You know, hear what people have been going through.
[01:41:10.700 --> 01:41:11.620]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Hear what they're building.
[01:41:11.860 --> 01:41:15.620]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Hear what they're trying to organize and raise awareness about.
[01:41:16.040 --> 01:41:16.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[01:41:16.560 --> 01:41:17.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, let's take this phone call.
[01:41:17.480 --> 01:41:17.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[01:41:17.880 --> 01:41:19.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[01:41:19.220 --> 01:41:19.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[01:41:20.880 --> 01:41:21.680]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yes, Emmanuel.
[01:41:21.680 --> 01:41:21.880]  [REBEL_RICH]: Emmanuel.
[01:41:23.180 --> 01:41:24.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, who's this?
[01:41:25.540 --> 01:41:28.400]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yes, let me finally take that phone call, of course.
[01:41:28.720 --> 01:41:29.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is this Rebel?
[01:41:30.400 --> 01:41:31.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, of course.
[01:41:31.740 --> 01:41:33.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, Rebel, where are you?
[01:41:35.640 --> 01:41:38.800]  [REBEL_RICH]: I'm in Geneva, Switzerland.
[01:41:39.360 --> 01:41:41.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow, sounds very mysterious where you are.
[01:41:41.580 --> 01:41:43.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: What's going on over there in Geneva?
[01:41:43.680 --> 01:41:46.380]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, you know, there's a big delay here.
[01:41:46.520 --> 01:41:48.240]  [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, you know, it's like a...
[01:41:49.020 --> 01:41:51.480]  [REBEL_RICH]: The Internet, you know, I have T-Mobile.
[01:41:51.620 --> 01:41:53.900]  [REBEL_RICH]: So the Internet is free.
[01:41:54.060 --> 01:41:55.980]  [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, it's 10, 20 megahertz a second.
[01:41:56.060 --> 01:41:59.000]  [REBEL_RICH]: But the delay, it's just like 100 milliseconds.
[01:41:59.400 --> 01:42:06.840]  [REBEL_RICH]: And that's why, you know, like when I'm listening to this live show and, you know, it's like five seconds later and maybe even more.
[01:42:07.080 --> 01:42:08.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: How do you know it's five seconds later?
[01:42:09.020 --> 01:42:10.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're listening to the show.
[01:42:10.060 --> 01:42:10.780]  [REBEL_RICH]: I don't.
[01:42:10.900 --> 01:42:11.940]  [REBEL_RICH]: I'm listening on my phone.
[01:42:12.200 --> 01:42:18.060]  [REBEL_RICH]: So, you know, so when I listen on the phone and then go to the app to call, I can't hear the show.
[01:42:18.320 --> 01:42:19.700]  [REBEL_RICH]: So, you know.
[01:42:20.160 --> 01:42:20.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:42:20.660 --> 01:42:24.460]  [REBEL_RICH]: Unless I act like a laptop, but I'm not going to love a laptop to hear it.
[01:42:24.560 --> 01:42:31.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I do feel like you're in the past a little bit, you know, that I'm talking to somebody who hasn't heard the news.
[01:42:31.340 --> 01:42:33.040]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, what have you been doing?
[01:42:33.040 --> 01:42:33.280]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah.
[01:42:33.340 --> 01:42:34.060]  [KYLEDROSDK]: How was your day?
[01:42:34.320 --> 01:42:35.460]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What are you up to?
[01:42:35.780 --> 01:42:36.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not a day there anymore.
[01:42:37.500 --> 01:42:39.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm talking in the morning here.
[01:42:39.360 --> 01:42:41.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, of a different day, right?
[01:42:41.300 --> 01:42:42.340]  [KYLEDROSDK]: How was the previous day?
[01:42:42.420 --> 01:42:43.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: What have you been up to?
[01:42:43.640 --> 01:42:47.460]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, the previous day I spent in the Swiss Alps.
[01:42:47.880 --> 01:42:49.740]  [REBEL_RICH]: I was up in the mountains and...
[01:42:49.740 --> 01:42:51.100]  [REBEL_RICH]: Oh, did you find your way out?
[01:42:52.260 --> 01:42:52.920]  [REBEL_RICH]: I did.
[01:42:52.960 --> 01:42:57.000]  [REBEL_RICH]: You know, I rode a gongola up to the mountain and that was interesting.
[01:42:57.300 --> 01:42:58.620]  [REBEL_RICH]: You're supposed to ride those in water.
[01:43:00.340 --> 01:43:00.780]  [REBEL_RICH]: Gongola?
[01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:01.620]  [REBEL_RICH]: I think...
[01:43:01.620 --> 01:43:03.880]  [REBEL_RICH]: Doesn't gongola mean cable car or something?
[01:43:04.140 --> 01:43:04.940]  [REBEL_RICH]: What are they...
[01:43:04.940 --> 01:43:05.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: There's a gongola.
[01:43:05.960 --> 01:43:07.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's a cable car.
[01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:10.540]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They're interchangeable, but yeah, in this case, yeah.
[01:43:10.720 --> 01:43:12.700]  [KYLEDROSDK]: The things you get in Venice, aren't those gondolas?
[01:43:12.840 --> 01:43:14.120]  [KYLEDROSDK]: They're also called gondolas, yes.
[01:43:14.260 --> 01:43:18.360]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, you know, speaking of Venice, well, that's where it will be next week.
[01:43:18.540 --> 01:43:22.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, don't be confused when you see gondolas there, because they operate on a different premise.
[01:43:23.760 --> 01:43:29.220]  [REBEL_RICH]: You know, I'm also afraid to ride the one because it's, like, so small.
[01:43:29.860 --> 01:43:32.120]  [REBEL_RICH]: What if you, like, dip over and...
[01:43:32.120 --> 01:43:33.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, one false move.
[01:43:34.120 --> 01:43:34.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:43:35.940 --> 01:43:36.540]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah.
[01:43:37.120 --> 01:43:40.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, what have you done so far besides get lost in the Alps?
[01:43:43.280 --> 01:43:44.200]  [REBEL_RICH]: Let's see.
[01:43:45.120 --> 01:43:47.160]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, tomorrow I'm going to...
[01:43:47.160 --> 01:43:50.840]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, today is tomorrow, so I'm going to France.
[01:43:51.300 --> 01:43:53.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, France, I've heard of that.
[01:43:54.840 --> 01:43:55.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, so...
[01:43:55.640 --> 01:43:56.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's cool.
[01:43:56.740 --> 01:43:57.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: I should point out...
[01:43:57.820 --> 01:43:58.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: Are you heading to...
[01:43:58.580 --> 01:44:01.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: I should point out that France is on fire right now.
[01:44:01.640 --> 01:44:02.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's something you might want to...
[01:44:02.780 --> 01:44:04.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hopefully not the part I'm going to.
[01:44:04.380 --> 01:44:06.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, an increasing amount is.
[01:44:06.560 --> 01:44:07.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's really kind of messed up.
[01:44:08.140 --> 01:44:08.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Alex, you have a question?
[01:44:08.900 --> 01:44:09.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: Are you heading to...
[01:44:09.580 --> 01:44:11.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, are you heading to Lyon?
[01:44:11.360 --> 01:44:12.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: Is that where you're going, if you're in Geneva?
[01:44:12.940 --> 01:44:13.840]  [REBEL_RICH]: No, that's too far.
[01:44:13.840 --> 01:44:15.520]  [REBEL_RICH]: I was going to go there, but that's just...
[01:44:15.520 --> 01:44:18.080]  [REBEL_RICH]: It's going to take like three hours, my train...
[01:44:18.080 --> 01:44:18.920]  [REBEL_RICH]: And then it's just...
[01:44:18.920 --> 01:44:22.980]  [REBEL_RICH]: I'm just going to go take a bus to where the border town is and, you know...
[01:44:22.980 --> 01:44:26.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: A three-hour train ride in France is not the worst thing in the world.
[01:44:27.000 --> 01:44:27.860]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, it's not too bad.
[01:44:28.020 --> 01:44:28.600]  [REBEL_RICH]: You should pick it up.
[01:44:29.020 --> 01:44:29.280]  [REBEL_RICH]: It's a good day.
[01:44:29.620 --> 01:44:34.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: Get a little baguette and some wine and just watch the world go by and hopefully stay out of the fire.
[01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:39.700]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, and let's see, and then tomorrow...
[01:44:39.700 --> 01:44:44.840]  [REBEL_RICH]: No, the next day, I'm going to be going to Spurn, Switzerland, which is the capital.
[01:44:46.060 --> 01:44:48.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you say going back to Switzerland after leaving Switzerland.
[01:44:48.760 --> 01:44:49.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Very cool.
[01:44:50.480 --> 01:44:57.620]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, I mean, then, you know, staying there for a day and then going to Zurich and leaving from there to go to Milan, Italy.
[01:44:58.180 --> 01:44:58.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, all right.
[01:45:00.040 --> 01:45:02.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: Milano is how they refer to it.
[01:45:02.700 --> 01:45:03.680]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, Milano.
[01:45:06.900 --> 01:45:08.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, you can catch the Eurostar there.
[01:45:09.000 --> 01:45:10.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can catch the Eurostar in Milano.
[01:45:13.100 --> 01:45:15.020]  [REBEL_RICH]: Right, but I'm not taking that train.
[01:45:15.220 --> 01:45:16.140]  [REBEL_RICH]: I'm taking the...
[01:45:16.140 --> 01:45:16.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, but I fooled you.
[01:45:17.100 --> 01:45:18.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not the Eurostar you're thinking of.
[01:45:18.600 --> 01:45:19.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a different Eurostar.
[01:45:19.480 --> 01:45:20.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's the Italian Eurostar.
[01:45:21.840 --> 01:45:25.680]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, that train in Italia or Italo or something like that.
[01:45:25.920 --> 01:45:26.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Mm-hmm.
[01:45:29.060 --> 01:45:35.880]  [REBEL_RICH]: But, yeah, coming over here with, you know, I flew Swiss Airlines.
[01:45:36.100 --> 01:45:41.220]  [REBEL_RICH]: I had to tell you, you know, I come to Switzerland just to see, you know, nice...
[01:45:41.760 --> 01:45:42.720]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, things are good.
[01:45:42.840 --> 01:45:44.960]  [REBEL_RICH]: They're expensive here, but I'll get to that in a minute.
[01:45:45.900 --> 01:45:46.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: You've experienced that.
[01:45:47.020 --> 01:45:48.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Have you had a $60 sandwich yet?
[01:45:49.380 --> 01:45:54.720]  [REBEL_RICH]: Uh, you know, I had a $50 hamburger, rice, and soda.
[01:45:55.020 --> 01:45:55.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow, okay.
[01:45:55.920 --> 01:45:57.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Welcome to Switzerland, then.
[01:45:58.100 --> 01:46:03.120]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, and that $30 egg and cheese and bottled water.
[01:46:03.440 --> 01:46:06.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, Switzerland basically is founded on the premise of, let's see what we can get away with.
[01:46:07.100 --> 01:46:09.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, and so far, they're doing pretty good.
[01:46:10.300 --> 01:46:13.220]  [REBEL_RICH]: You know, the airline is, in fact, great, because they don't have plugs on there.
[01:46:13.300 --> 01:46:14.620]  [REBEL_RICH]: You can't plug your phone into...
[01:46:14.620 --> 01:46:16.620]  [REBEL_RICH]: They only have USB-A plugs.
[01:46:17.140 --> 01:46:21.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's a close second in complaints, as far as, yeah, what Switzerland is known for.
[01:46:21.700 --> 01:46:24.580]  [REBEL_RICH]: They've had no... the Internet is terrible.
[01:46:24.580 --> 01:46:30.340]  [REBEL_RICH]: I mean, you know, I think that Turkish airline is the best airline, you know, that I've flown.
[01:46:31.340 --> 01:46:33.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you've got to try them all, you know.
[01:46:33.180 --> 01:46:38.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: You've got to try them all and realize one might be having a bad day, so try them a few times each.
[01:46:40.200 --> 01:46:41.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then make your judgments.
[01:46:42.980 --> 01:46:43.420]  [REBEL_RICH]: Right.
[01:46:44.680 --> 01:46:45.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:46:45.120 --> 01:46:47.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, you're in a place where you have to talk quietly, right?
[01:46:48.100 --> 01:46:50.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because you've never talked this quietly before.
[01:46:51.660 --> 01:46:53.940]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, I mean, it is 2 o'clock in the morning here.
[01:46:54.120 --> 01:46:56.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: At 2 o'clock in the morning, I can sing on my balcony.
[01:46:58.540 --> 01:46:59.800]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, I don't know if you could do that here.
[01:47:00.660 --> 01:47:01.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's only one way to find out.
[01:47:04.300 --> 01:47:09.220]  [REBEL_RICH]: Um, yeah, so, uh, yeah, so Italy is, uh, next week.
[01:47:10.980 --> 01:47:12.220]  [REBEL_RICH]: That's pretty interesting.
[01:47:12.560 --> 01:47:13.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: And you know what week HOPE is, right?
[01:47:14.120 --> 01:47:15.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, you know, I went to be in New York City.
[01:47:16.320 --> 01:47:22.680]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, you know, I'm coming back the 13th of August, and HOPE is that next day.
[01:47:22.900 --> 01:47:24.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Next day is pretty close, Rebel.
[01:47:24.480 --> 01:47:25.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Pretty damn close there.
[01:47:25.740 --> 01:47:28.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, if you get a delay, it's not going to be any wiggle room.
[01:47:28.480 --> 01:47:33.480]  [REBEL_RICH]: Um, I know, and I want to give a talk on CB Radio.
[01:47:35.400 --> 01:47:40.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, well, um, you sign up for that fourth track, or you'll be giving the talk out to the street.
[01:47:41.500 --> 01:47:41.820]  [REBEL_RICH]: Right.
[01:47:42.260 --> 01:47:42.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:47:42.720 --> 01:47:45.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Which is fine, you know, we can, we can take the street, too.
[01:47:46.540 --> 01:47:53.420]  [REBEL_RICH]: People can, people have been asking, you know, in the chat, you know, I should give a talk on, you know, I think CB Radio is an interesting topic to talk about, you know.
[01:47:58.260 --> 01:48:02.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, well, I think, I, I think it's time for you to go to bed, because it's late over there.
[01:48:02.260 --> 01:48:02.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:48:03.400 --> 01:48:04.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Thanks for calling, guys.
[01:48:04.520 --> 01:48:05.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good to hear from you.
[01:48:06.160 --> 01:48:19.500]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah, when you're, you know, when you're, you come to a new place, you just, you know, so excited of being there, and, you know, you sleep for a few hours, and it's like, you're just too excited to sleep, you know, just want to explore, and...
[01:48:20.120 --> 01:48:36.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, the way I do it is, I usually, I can fall asleep on the plane, and since virtually every plane to Europe goes overnight, leaves at like six o'clock or something, I just wind up staying up until we land, and then it's like seven in the morning, and I'm really,
[01:48:36.520 --> 01:48:46.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: really tired, but I'm able to soldier through the day for a little bit, and then I'm like conked out at like eight o'clock, and then I wake up at a decent hour the next day, and I'm actually on a better schedule there than I am here.
[01:48:47.860 --> 01:49:06.660]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, that's what I did, that's what I did, you know, I just, I, you know, what I do is I set my, you know, phone clock to Washington time and New York City time, and the local time, so I know that, well, it's two o'clock in the morning here, but I know it's 8.30 or 8.45 there, so...
[01:49:07.020 --> 01:49:08.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, time is a weird thing.
[01:49:10.240 --> 01:49:10.600]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yeah.
[01:49:10.600 --> 01:49:19.380]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, let's see, what else, you know, they speak French here, and, you know, I used to translate that sometimes.
[01:49:21.580 --> 01:49:23.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll be speaking French tomorrow.
[01:49:23.520 --> 01:49:28.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, many of them speak English, but when you go to France, at least try to speak French, they prefer that.
[01:49:28.980 --> 01:49:31.240]  [REBEL_RICH]: Well, I mean, yeah, I just used to translate that.
[01:49:35.060 --> 01:49:35.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, cool.
[01:49:36.220 --> 01:49:40.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Again, good hearing from you, and we look forward to hearing how it turns out.
[01:49:42.200 --> 01:49:42.720]  [REBEL_RICH]: Yep.
[01:49:44.560 --> 01:49:45.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:49:45.460 --> 01:49:45.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:49:46.220 --> 01:49:46.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good night, then.
[01:49:47.120 --> 01:49:47.440]  [REBEL_RICH]: All right.
[01:49:48.040 --> 01:49:48.340]  [REBEL_RICH]: Bye.
[01:49:49.820 --> 01:49:50.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[01:49:50.500 --> 01:49:52.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: That was Rebel calling us from Switzerland.
[01:49:54.720 --> 01:50:00.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: And we can't take another call right now, at least temporarily, because Kyle has left the room.
[01:50:01.140 --> 01:50:07.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: There's some business that needs taken care of that's urgent, so we need to talk amongst ourselves until he gets back.
[01:50:07.920 --> 01:50:08.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Can we do that?
[01:50:08.740 --> 01:50:12.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you think we can actually find something to pass the time with?
[01:50:13.200 --> 01:50:14.440]  [GILADRAZEN]: I believe in us.
[01:50:15.320 --> 01:50:15.860]  [GILADRAZEN]: All right.
[01:50:16.020 --> 01:50:18.140]  [GILADRAZEN]: But may I say, can I share a comment?
[01:50:18.520 --> 01:50:19.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, please.
[01:50:21.080 --> 01:50:26.960]  [GILADRAZEN]: One of the people in the chat said, Switzerland is expensive, but the flag is a big plus.
[01:50:28.260 --> 01:50:29.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because it's square, right?
[01:50:30.940 --> 01:50:32.040]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it's got a plus.
[01:50:32.040 --> 01:50:33.360]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because it's a plus sign.
[01:50:33.920 --> 01:50:34.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, I see.
[01:50:34.460 --> 01:50:35.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a big plus.
[01:50:35.580 --> 01:50:36.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's a big plus.
[01:50:38.220 --> 01:50:38.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a square.
[01:50:38.880 --> 01:50:39.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: We were laughing.
[01:50:39.460 --> 01:50:40.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not a rectangle.
[01:50:40.480 --> 01:50:41.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a square.
[01:50:41.180 --> 01:50:43.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, it's a square, but it's got a plus sign on it.
[01:50:43.920 --> 01:50:44.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, that's nice, too.
[01:50:45.920 --> 01:50:46.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a big rectangle.
[01:50:49.220 --> 01:50:51.900]  [ROBVINCENT]: We enjoyed... There was laughter here.
[01:50:53.940 --> 01:50:56.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: I always thought it was because they have a decent medical system.
[01:50:56.680 --> 01:50:58.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: I thought that's why I was kind of boasting about that.
[01:51:00.040 --> 01:51:00.900]  [ROBVINCENT]: That and the chocolate.
[01:51:02.200 --> 01:51:02.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:51:02.900 --> 01:51:05.020]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, I used to work out of Geneva quite a bit.
[01:51:05.200 --> 01:51:09.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: I found it not an ideal place to live.
[01:51:09.700 --> 01:51:11.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was so insanely expensive.
[01:51:11.900 --> 01:51:15.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: And my old company wanted me to move from New York to Geneva.
[01:51:15.080 --> 01:51:16.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: I just flat out refused.
[01:51:17.140 --> 01:51:19.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, are they going to pay you a Swiss salary?
[01:51:21.120 --> 01:51:21.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yes.
[01:51:21.920 --> 01:51:24.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: So what you do is you go there and say, okay, but then you sneak back.
[01:51:24.980 --> 01:51:29.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: But you're actually working in New York, which is cheap in comparison.
[01:51:29.600 --> 01:51:32.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: But they're paying you in Swiss francs or whatever they used.
[01:51:34.640 --> 01:51:34.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:51:36.080 --> 01:51:40.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: I don't think it would have worked out for me all that well there with family and stuff.
[01:51:40.680 --> 01:51:43.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I mean, it's an interesting city.
[01:51:43.200 --> 01:51:45.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: There's a lot going on there.
[01:51:45.380 --> 01:51:55.920]  [ALEXURBELS]: But it's, you know, unless you're like living off the teat of an IGO or some kind of oligarch or money launderer, it's an insanely expensive place to live.
[01:51:56.180 --> 01:51:56.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:51:56.680 --> 01:51:59.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: There aren't nearly enough of those around to really make it worth our while.
[01:52:00.400 --> 01:52:11.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: The first time I went to Switzerland, though, and I rented a car, I remember driving around and thinking, like, man, these people just drive so f*cking slowly.
[01:52:12.200 --> 01:52:14.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: Like, what is it about these people, right?
[01:52:14.820 --> 01:52:16.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: Like, they really follow the speed limit.
[01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:17.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're always...
[01:52:17.640 --> 01:52:18.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: They obey the rules.
[01:52:18.780 --> 01:52:19.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: They obey rules.
[01:52:19.920 --> 01:52:20.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: They believe in that.
[01:52:20.640 --> 01:52:22.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're very, very rule-following people.
[01:52:22.760 --> 01:52:23.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're very on the rails, right?
[01:52:23.900 --> 01:52:31.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: And then I realized, maybe like a month and a half after I got home to New York, why everybody was driving the speed limit and things.
[01:52:31.860 --> 01:52:40.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because the speed enforcement there was just all through speed cameras that I had set off, like, one after another, after another, after another, after another.
[01:52:40.620 --> 01:52:44.240]  [ALEXURBELS]: Like, all throughout Switzerland, I had collected these massive fines.
[01:52:45.480 --> 01:52:47.660]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, yeah, so that was...
[01:52:47.660 --> 01:52:51.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: There was probably a newspaper article about you and your one-man crime wave throughout the country.
[01:52:51.840 --> 01:52:52.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: You wouldn't be surprised.
[01:52:53.240 --> 01:53:04.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: But the other thing in Switzerland that I found interesting is, you know, you get on the tram, and, you know, they're all digital, and they would all arrive the very minute they were supposed to arrive.
[01:53:04.740 --> 01:53:15.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: But not only that, they would tell you the connecting trams on the stops that you hadn't arrived at yet, and the time those other trams were going to arrive at those stations that you weren't at.
[01:53:16.700 --> 01:53:20.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: And they really get upset if anything is even one minute late.
[01:53:21.920 --> 01:53:23.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: And it's really...
[01:53:23.200 --> 01:53:25.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a different place.
[01:53:26.020 --> 01:53:26.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:53:27.200 --> 01:53:34.820]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, and they apparently, fairly recently, you know, got so fed up with waiting for the German trains.
[01:53:35.000 --> 01:53:42.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: Because you would think that, you know, the Germans, known from precision and engineering, they're known all throughout Europe as having the worst trains.
[01:53:42.560 --> 01:53:45.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: Like, the worst train service, it's always late for some stupid reason.
[01:53:45.540 --> 01:53:51.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: And the Swiss have started to refuse to just wait for the German trains because they're making their own trains late.
[01:53:51.940 --> 01:53:53.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: They just leave without them now.
[01:53:54.100 --> 01:53:54.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: What do you mean they leave?
[01:53:54.880 --> 01:53:56.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: How do you leave without a train you're waiting for?
[01:53:58.080 --> 01:53:58.860]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, they...
[01:53:58.860 --> 01:54:00.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're not using that same train.
[01:54:00.620 --> 01:54:05.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: So the passengers are supposed to transfer from one train to the other, from a German train to a Swiss train.
[01:54:06.000 --> 01:54:06.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:54:06.560 --> 01:54:08.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: The Swiss trains are fed up waiting for the German trains.
[01:54:09.020 --> 01:54:09.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: They just keep going.
[01:54:09.640 --> 01:54:15.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, you mean it's like when the two train doesn't wait for the one train.
[01:54:15.460 --> 01:54:17.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: The two train just says, f*ck you, I'm leaving.
[01:54:18.180 --> 01:54:24.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the one train is just sitting there for another 20 minutes when all the guy had to do was leave the door open for another 30 seconds.
[01:54:25.020 --> 01:54:26.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Would it have killed him?
[01:54:26.540 --> 01:54:26.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[01:54:27.040 --> 01:54:27.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's like that?
[01:54:27.820 --> 01:54:29.920]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, it's exactly like that.
[01:54:30.880 --> 01:54:33.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, you know, two trains, that's Switzerland, you know.
[01:54:33.800 --> 01:54:35.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: They're on the express track.
[01:54:35.720 --> 01:54:36.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: They've got to get a move on.
[01:54:36.520 --> 01:54:38.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, Gila, you have your hand up.
[01:54:38.740 --> 01:54:39.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: This isn't cool.
[01:54:39.540 --> 01:54:40.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can just burst in.
[01:54:40.860 --> 01:54:41.520]  [GILADRAZEN]: I do, indeed.
[01:54:43.560 --> 01:54:50.360]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm pushing through a question from the chat, which is, has Emmanuel or any other hosts been to any African or Asian countries?
[01:54:50.660 --> 01:54:52.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: I've been to Asian countries.
[01:54:52.420 --> 01:54:55.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: I regretfully have not yet been to an African country.
[01:54:55.420 --> 01:54:56.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'd love to go to Kenya.
[01:54:57.260 --> 01:54:58.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'd love to go to Tanzania.
[01:54:59.000 --> 01:55:00.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Even Morocco, I'd love to go to.
[01:55:01.200 --> 01:55:02.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't know why I said even.
[01:55:02.440 --> 01:55:03.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it's just different.
[01:55:03.220 --> 01:55:03.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's not.
[01:55:04.700 --> 01:55:05.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's so close to Europe.
[01:55:06.520 --> 01:55:10.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: But I've been to a lot of countries in Asia.
[01:55:10.600 --> 01:55:11.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: I've been to China.
[01:55:11.260 --> 01:55:11.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: I've been to Japan.
[01:55:12.120 --> 01:55:13.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: I've been to North Korea.
[01:55:13.320 --> 01:55:14.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: I have not been to South Korea.
[01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:18.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: I've been to Malaysia and Singapore and Mongolia.
[01:55:19.200 --> 01:55:20.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think I've listed everything.
[01:55:20.720 --> 01:55:22.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the Asian part of Russia.
[01:55:24.200 --> 01:55:26.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: If there's anything else, I'm blanking on it.
[01:55:26.960 --> 01:55:27.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: But that's...
[01:55:27.540 --> 01:55:30.280]  [GILADRAZEN]: If you go back to Malaysia, you know how to say crazy in Malay.
[01:55:31.780 --> 01:55:32.500]  [GILADRAZEN]: Do I?
[01:55:32.900 --> 01:55:33.520]  [GILADRAZEN]: You do.
[01:55:33.620 --> 01:55:34.500]  [GILADRAZEN]: We learned this last week.
[01:55:34.640 --> 01:55:34.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, okay.
[01:55:36.040 --> 01:55:36.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Gila.
[01:55:37.140 --> 01:55:38.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, right, right, right.
[01:55:38.400 --> 01:55:38.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:55:40.680 --> 01:55:42.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: You should be happy I forgot that.
[01:55:44.880 --> 01:55:48.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: Sorry, I have this horrible habit of just reminding people of the things I should probably let them forget.
[01:55:51.440 --> 01:55:52.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: I've been to Africa, though.
[01:55:53.120 --> 01:55:54.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: I've been to Tunisia.
[01:55:55.040 --> 01:55:55.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:55:55.680 --> 01:55:56.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'd like to go there, too.
[01:55:56.300 --> 01:55:56.880]  [ALEXURBELS]: North Africa.
[01:55:57.140 --> 01:55:57.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[01:55:57.760 --> 01:55:58.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's great.
[01:55:58.520 --> 01:56:00.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: Even Tunisia you visit?
[01:56:00.260 --> 01:56:01.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: I would go to Tunisia, for sure.
[01:56:01.340 --> 01:56:01.660]  [ALEXURBELS]: Absolutely.
[01:56:02.080 --> 01:56:02.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: Even?
[01:56:02.540 --> 01:56:02.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yep.
[01:56:02.800 --> 01:56:02.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[01:56:03.120 --> 01:56:03.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: Definitely.
[01:56:03.960 --> 01:56:05.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's close to Europe as well.
[01:56:05.580 --> 01:56:06.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: It really is close to Europe.
[01:56:06.600 --> 01:56:07.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's very close to Europe.
[01:56:07.520 --> 01:56:09.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: You just take a ferry over and there you are.
[01:56:10.520 --> 01:56:11.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: You could, yep.
[01:56:11.580 --> 01:56:18.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, and in lots of places on the northern coast of Tunisia, they'll speak Arabic and Italian.
[01:56:18.000 --> 01:56:23.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think I say even because it's just, it's too easy to get to, you know, whereas the other ones, you have to make a real commitment.
[01:56:23.720 --> 01:56:29.160]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, if you're going to Kenya, you can't just get on a boat from Italy and go there, you know?
[01:56:29.640 --> 01:56:39.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: And so technically, while I was in Tunisia, we were in the mountains and apparently crossed over the border into Algeria for a little bit.
[01:56:39.680 --> 01:56:44.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: So maybe I've been to Algeria as well.
[01:56:44.920 --> 01:56:57.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: And then when I was on the other side and going past this, these, driving through these towns like Gavez and things, really drove far into the Sahara too, into these weird little towns.
[01:56:57.340 --> 01:57:05.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: Like very, very untouristed little towns in the Sahara where that, like, it was great, crazy experiences over there.
[01:57:05.460 --> 01:57:06.780]  [ALEXURBELS]: Very interesting place.
[01:57:07.540 --> 01:57:12.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, and then it was weird to drive and see signs for Libya and Tripoli.
[01:57:13.240 --> 01:57:16.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: Be like, oh, make a right and you're on your way to Tripoli.
[01:57:16.240 --> 01:57:21.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's like, Jesus, wow, this is, it's kind of a strange road sign to see a sign for Tripoli.
[01:57:21.880 --> 01:57:23.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: You sure it's Tripoli, Libya?
[01:57:23.620 --> 01:57:24.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Because there's other places called Tripoli.
[01:57:25.040 --> 01:57:25.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:57:26.160 --> 01:57:26.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:57:27.200 --> 01:57:27.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: Wow.
[01:57:27.740 --> 01:57:28.280]  [ALEXURBELS]: Tripoli, Libya.
[01:57:29.040 --> 01:57:31.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: May I ask what you were doing, driving in the Sahara?
[01:57:33.480 --> 01:57:35.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: Just, uh, just exploring a bit.
[01:57:36.520 --> 01:57:37.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: Just checking it out.
[01:57:37.820 --> 01:57:38.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just checking it out?
[01:57:38.880 --> 01:57:40.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Just checking out the Sahara Desert?
[01:57:40.520 --> 01:57:40.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[01:57:41.180 --> 01:57:41.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[01:57:41.760 --> 01:57:47.100]  [ALEXURBELS]: So I, I, I mean, it was a kind of random thing too, because I, I flew to Tunis.
[01:57:47.340 --> 01:57:50.700]  [ALEXURBELS]: I only really had two days planned with a friend of mine, John.
[01:57:50.900 --> 01:57:58.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: We wound up meeting some French woman who hooked us up with the, these guys from whom we could buy a, uh, rent a car for a while.
[01:57:58.280 --> 01:58:03.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: And then we just decided to build an itinerary, um, around the coast.
[01:58:03.900 --> 01:58:07.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: We're kind of going straight down, seeing a couple of sites and various things.
[01:58:07.640 --> 01:58:11.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: But then getting to this tiny little town called, uh, Bouza.
[01:58:12.080 --> 01:58:13.920]  [ALEXURBELS]: B-O-U-Z-A.
[01:58:14.380 --> 01:58:20.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, and then this French woman had told us about a town that was farther in.
[01:58:20.900 --> 01:58:23.580]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think it was Bouza, but it was called El Farrois.
[01:58:24.620 --> 01:58:29.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, and that was a crazy town, because it was really, like, in the Sahara.
[01:58:29.100 --> 01:58:34.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was extremely inhospitable when the wind was blowing, because that Sahara sand is so fine.
[01:58:35.120 --> 01:58:37.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: It gets into every bit of you.
[01:58:37.980 --> 01:58:40.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, you get it on your eyelids, it gets into your contacts.
[01:58:40.900 --> 01:58:41.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's awful.
[01:58:42.880 --> 01:58:46.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, uh, we, uh, made friends with the guys in the hotel that night.
[01:58:47.240 --> 01:58:53.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: And they had, uh, taken a liking to us, and we just bought a whole bunch of bottles of wine.
[01:58:53.260 --> 01:58:56.880]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, like, the most expensive bottles of wine in there were, I think, $8.
[01:58:57.280 --> 01:59:01.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: That was, like, the top shelf stuff that you would buy at a hotel was $8.
[01:59:01.440 --> 01:59:06.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: So we, we got a whole bunch of wine, and we hung out with the hotel staff, these dudes.
[01:59:07.840 --> 01:59:14.020]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, um, uh, and we built a fire with them out in the, uh, in the desert.
[01:59:14.340 --> 01:59:23.780]  [ALEXURBELS]: So we built this fire, and we're just hanging out with the hotel staff, having a whole bunch of wine in the middle, not in the middle of the Sahara, but, I mean, you're in, still in the Sahara, so there's no lights around.
[01:59:24.140 --> 01:59:25.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: The stars are incredible.
[01:59:25.840 --> 01:59:42.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: And then we had this crazy experience, which, if that wasn't enough, they said, you know, there's a guy who's a Berber, you know, kind of like one of the old nomadic peoples that lived in, uh, still lives in, in Tunisia, and he said, you know, there's a Berber that lives,
[01:59:42.240 --> 01:59:49.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: like, you know, maybe like a half a mile or a couple, you know, less than half a mile away, and they could take us there in, in a desert.
[01:59:49.780 --> 01:59:51.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: In the, in the middle of the night?
[01:59:51.720 --> 01:59:52.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: In the middle of the night.
[01:59:52.980 --> 01:59:54.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Is he going to appreciate that?
[01:59:56.820 --> 01:59:59.340]  [ALEXURBELS]: Well, that's where this is going, a little bit.
[01:59:59.340 --> 02:00:09.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's the, uh, so we eventually get there, and you see, he's got, like, some kind of lights on, and things in this, in this, this hut that he lives in, in the middle of the desert.
[02:00:09.800 --> 02:00:22.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: And as we're walking over there, these two dogs run out from the tented area, and they're, they look very mean, and they're barking and racing over to us.
[02:00:22.700 --> 02:00:28.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: And I'm like, oh shit, we're going to be attacked by a f*cking dog, a Berber's dog in the desert now.
[02:00:28.860 --> 02:00:31.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: This is insane, you know, it's not, that could be a good way to go.
[02:00:31.480 --> 02:00:38.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: And then he came out, and he called off the dogs, like, I don't know, 15, 20 feet before they got to us.
[02:00:38.600 --> 02:00:42.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: And they stopped, they listened to him, and then he recognized it was the guys from the hotel.
[02:00:43.400 --> 02:00:51.080]  [ALEXURBELS]: And we hung out with this guy in the desert who was a Berber, and we drank wine with him, and gave us this very strange tobacco.
[02:00:51.520 --> 02:00:52.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was, it was good.
[02:00:52.580 --> 02:00:55.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: I didn't think there was a lot of wine drinking in the Sahara Desert.
[02:00:56.820 --> 02:00:57.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: You'd be surprised.
[02:00:58.320 --> 02:01:01.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: These guys had, had no problem consuming alcohol with us.
[02:01:02.040 --> 02:01:05.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was, yeah, they could throw it down as well.
[02:01:06.360 --> 02:01:06.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[02:01:07.020 --> 02:01:08.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: But yeah, El Falwa was the town.
[02:01:08.900 --> 02:01:10.240]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was a very, very cool town.
[02:01:10.420 --> 02:01:13.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: You'll have to show it to me someday, because I, it sounds fascinating.
[02:01:13.500 --> 02:01:15.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, um, how long ago did you go there?
[02:01:16.220 --> 02:01:17.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: God, it was about 15 years ago.
[02:01:18.140 --> 02:01:21.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was when it was still under the rule of, uh, Ben Ali, the dictator.
[02:01:22.120 --> 02:01:26.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, because the Arab Spring started in, in southern Tunisia, and it was about Ben Ali.
[02:01:27.120 --> 02:01:37.720]  [ALEXURBELS]: Everywhere you went, uh, all around the country, whether it was a gas station, whether it was a hotel, whether it was a restaurant, they always had his picture up everywhere, hanging.
[02:01:37.880 --> 02:01:38.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: It was really f*cking creepy.
[02:01:39.840 --> 02:01:42.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, nobody would talk badly about him.
[02:01:42.680 --> 02:01:44.780]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, it was, it was kind of strange.
[02:01:44.780 --> 02:01:51.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: But, um, it was maybe six months afterwards that I, that I left, that the Arab Spring happened.
[02:01:52.780 --> 02:01:53.640]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, uh...
[02:01:53.640 --> 02:01:56.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Did you, uh, plant the seeds for the Arab Spring?
[02:01:56.660 --> 02:01:57.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: Who knows?
[02:01:57.780 --> 02:02:03.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: For, for most of the people there, my friend John and I were the only Americans they'd ever met in their lives.
[02:02:05.560 --> 02:02:06.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: So, you never know.
[02:02:07.220 --> 02:02:07.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: Wow.
[02:02:08.280 --> 02:02:17.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, I'm going to step away just for a minute, see what's, what's going on with the, um, thing that Kyle's involved in right now, and see if we can continue with phone calls.
[02:02:17.560 --> 02:02:19.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll be back in about two minutes.
[02:02:19.940 --> 02:02:20.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: All right.
[02:02:20.700 --> 02:02:20.900]  [ROBVINCENT]: Okay.
[02:02:21.280 --> 02:02:21.500]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[02:02:22.160 --> 02:02:22.520]  [ROBVINCENT]: Enjoy.
[02:02:23.840 --> 02:02:24.360]  [ROBVINCENT]: All right.
[02:02:24.440 --> 02:02:26.820]  [ROBVINCENT]: He's, he's taking the headphones off, so we can talk about him now.
[02:02:27.240 --> 02:02:28.420]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, he has no idea.
[02:02:28.700 --> 02:02:29.260]  [ROBVINCENT]: I don't know.
[02:02:29.260 --> 02:02:30.400]  [ROBVINCENT]: What the hell is going on?
[02:02:30.500 --> 02:02:32.500]  [ALEXURBELS]: He, he just gave you the finger, though.
[02:02:32.920 --> 02:02:34.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: So maybe he did hear you.
[02:02:34.960 --> 02:02:39.080]  [ROBVINCENT]: Maybe he, he just assumed I would say something like that because he, he's known me for a long time.
[02:02:39.100 --> 02:02:39.220]  [ROBVINCENT]: Okay.
[02:02:39.340 --> 02:02:44.360]  [GILADRAZEN]: I have, we have a question from the chat that we can discuss because I'm sure we all have opinions about it.
[02:02:45.180 --> 02:02:52.340]  [GILADRAZEN]: Tim in Connecticut says, what's the best way from Grand Central Station to the New Yorker Hotel with luggage?
[02:02:54.300 --> 02:02:54.700]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh.
[02:02:55.300 --> 02:02:56.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, what the hell would that be?
[02:02:57.000 --> 02:02:59.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: Gretchen, can you take the seven?
[02:02:59.940 --> 02:03:01.800]  [ROBVINCENT]: I think that, I think you can.
[02:03:02.060 --> 02:03:02.200]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah.
[02:03:02.880 --> 02:03:03.660]  [GILADRAZEN]: Uh, hang on.
[02:03:04.040 --> 02:03:08.000]  [ROBVINCENT]: Doesn't the, the, uh, the east stops right at, uh, right under Grand Central, doesn't it?
[02:03:08.200 --> 02:03:08.380]  [ROBVINCENT]: No.
[02:03:08.600 --> 02:03:09.140]  [ROBVINCENT]: No, no, no.
[02:03:09.220 --> 02:03:09.940]  [ROBVINCENT]: That's the Port Authority.
[02:03:10.240 --> 02:03:10.760]  [ROBVINCENT]: That's the Port Authority.
[02:03:11.040 --> 02:03:11.200]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[02:03:12.200 --> 02:03:12.560]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[02:03:13.920 --> 02:03:15.540]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, Grand Central.
[02:03:16.120 --> 02:03:17.140]  [ROBVINCENT]: Grand Central Station.
[02:03:17.460 --> 02:03:17.920]  [ROBVINCENT]: Metro North.
[02:03:20.900 --> 02:03:22.500]  [GILADRAZEN]: Grand Central Metro North.
[02:03:23.060 --> 02:03:33.240]  [ROBVINCENT]: So this is the point of, this is the part of the show where you can ask us a question in the YouTube chat and we will, uh, go online and look it up for you because we're good at that sort of thing.
[02:03:33.420 --> 02:03:45.160]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, because initially my instinct is, especially if you have bags, would be to get like a Lyft or an Uber or a cab, flag a cab, there'll definitely be plenty of Grand Central.
[02:03:46.840 --> 02:03:50.140]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, the other bonus of a cab is you're on street level the whole time.
[02:03:50.260 --> 02:03:54.580]  [ROBVINCENT]: You'll get to look around, see a little bit of, uh, you know, touristy midtown sites.
[02:03:54.580 --> 02:03:56.880]  [GILADRAZEN]: You won't have to carry your bag up and down stairs.
[02:03:57.200 --> 02:03:57.240]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah.
[02:03:57.500 --> 02:03:59.400]  [ROBVINCENT]: You won't have to drive your bag up and down stairs.
[02:03:59.860 --> 02:04:02.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: Don't, don't use Uber unicycle when you have luggage.
[02:04:03.200 --> 02:04:05.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: That was, you know, that was always a mistake.
[02:04:05.740 --> 02:04:07.160]  [GILADRAZEN]: Uber unicycle?
[02:04:07.560 --> 02:04:09.820]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, yeah.
[02:04:10.020 --> 02:04:13.360]  [GILADRAZEN]: So my, so Tim, I know there are many ways to do it.
[02:04:13.660 --> 02:04:16.700]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, I'm sure that, you know, you've done the research.
[02:04:17.220 --> 02:04:22.200]  [GILADRAZEN]: My instinct again would be to take a cab.
[02:04:23.840 --> 02:04:24.240]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[02:04:24.480 --> 02:04:32.600]  [ROBVINCENT]: I mean, if you're, if you're comfortable, like you're not heavily encumbered by your luggage, like it's on wheels and you can walk around comfortably without straining, you might just want to walk downtown.
[02:04:32.920 --> 02:04:34.660]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's, uh, it's, you know, eight blocks.
[02:04:34.820 --> 02:04:39.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: It's if the weather is cooperative, of course, but, uh, it, it is not a bad walk.
[02:04:40.000 --> 02:04:47.960]  [ROBVINCENT]: I think if you're, if you're, you're comfortably rolling stuff and maybe not, not dragging stuff or, or carrying stuff.
[02:04:47.960 --> 02:04:58.980]  [GILADRAZEN]: See, you are more adventurous than I, because, um, I would not want to go that many avenues in the thirties.
[02:04:59.380 --> 02:04:59.800]  [ROBVINCENT]: Mm-hmm.
[02:05:01.100 --> 02:05:05.080]  [ROBVINCENT]: I mean, it's, it's, it's something, but, you know, it's an experience if you're into that sort of thing.
[02:05:05.080 --> 02:05:05.460]  [GILADRAZEN]: Absolutely.
[02:05:06.340 --> 02:05:16.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, and as long as we are having the, um, discussions about other people are asking questions, um, Sarah, they won't mind.
[02:05:17.280 --> 02:05:22.120]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, a cab driver will not be angry taking you from JFK in rush hour.
[02:05:22.540 --> 02:05:24.340]  [ROBVINCENT]: Oh no, they will, they will enjoy the opportunity.
[02:05:24.860 --> 02:05:26.660]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, they'll be having a great time.
[02:05:26.880 --> 02:05:39.100]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, just make sure, just make sure, just make sure at the airport, you get into the taxi stand with the actual yellow cabs and do not go anywhere with some random dude standing around just saying taxi, taxi, because that man is not a taxi.
[02:05:39.280 --> 02:05:39.540]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[02:05:39.840 --> 02:05:41.560]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, you're going to want to be in a yellow cab.
[02:05:41.800 --> 02:05:44.960]  [GILADRAZEN]: There are official flat-rates from JFK to Manhattan.
[02:05:45.920 --> 02:05:54.600]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, it's not an inexpensive proposition as far as these things go, but you're not going to be running the meter even in rush hour.
[02:05:55.880 --> 02:06:03.120]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, and so Tim, that trip, um, not super long.
[02:06:03.900 --> 02:06:08.960]  [GILADRAZEN]: The, um, you're going to be in the congestion zone.
[02:06:09.060 --> 02:06:12.080]  [GILADRAZEN]: So there will be a bit of a surcharge, but not so much.
[02:06:12.620 --> 02:06:15.800]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, it won't be incredibly inexpensive.
[02:06:16.480 --> 02:06:26.100]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, but also, yes, you could take the air train from JFK to the A or the E or the C for that matter.
[02:06:26.280 --> 02:06:26.400]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[02:06:26.440 --> 02:06:27.300]  [ROBVINCENT]: And that's right at Penn station.
[02:06:27.540 --> 02:06:30.500]  [GILADRAZEN]: And that will take you right to Penn station, which is across the street from the hotel.
[02:06:31.440 --> 02:06:35.220]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, it's $70 from JFK.
[02:06:35.460 --> 02:06:37.100]  [GILADRAZEN]: Rebel, I seriously thought you were going to sleep.
[02:06:40.340 --> 02:06:45.600]  [ROBVINCENT]: Rebel's still active in the chat after sounding very, very, uh, ready for bedtime.
[02:06:45.840 --> 02:06:49.740]  [GILADRAZEN]: After having announced at the beginning of the show that he was also going to sleep.
[02:06:50.460 --> 02:06:51.580]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, Can you hear me?
[02:06:52.340 --> 02:06:52.700]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[02:06:52.840 --> 02:06:52.980]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yes.
[02:06:52.980 --> 02:06:53.520]  [ROBVINCENT]: We hear you.
[02:06:53.660 --> 02:06:54.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: I can't hear you.
[02:06:54.680 --> 02:06:54.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[02:06:56.060 --> 02:07:05.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, I'm, I'm taking over Kyle's station right now cause he's still, uh, uh, doing stuff, but what I can do is I can pick up the phone over here and then move back over to where I usually am.
[02:07:05.740 --> 02:07:08.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, 802-321-4225.
[02:07:08.900 --> 02:07:11.940]  [EVILCORLEY]: If anyone wants to call in, I think I can pick it up without screwing it up too badly.
[02:07:12.540 --> 02:07:12.900]  [ROBVINCENT]: Okay.
[02:07:13.040 --> 02:07:20.120]  [ROBVINCENT]: Then, uh, when you, when you do that, we'll, we'll, uh, greet the caller and you can scoot around your, uh, your area there to the, to the other mic.
[02:07:20.340 --> 02:07:20.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:07:20.580 --> 02:07:25.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, take your time greeting the caller because, um, uh, they're not going to be up on the board until I get over there.
[02:07:26.220 --> 02:07:27.340]  [ROBVINCENT]: Ah, well, okay then.
[02:07:28.140 --> 02:07:28.620]  [ROBVINCENT]: All right.
[02:07:28.740 --> 02:07:31.540]  [ROBVINCENT]: So, um, you can, uh, shall we give out the number?
[02:07:31.740 --> 02:07:33.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just did, but you go ahead and do it too.
[02:07:37.400 --> 02:07:38.980]  [ROBVINCENT]: 802-321-4225.
[02:07:39.300 --> 02:07:41.100]  [ROBVINCENT]: That's 802-321-HACK.
[02:07:41.760 --> 02:07:43.760]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, uh, get in touch with us.
[02:07:43.860 --> 02:07:51.560]  [ROBVINCENT]: Uh, and as we come to, I think probably the end of, of another one here, but, uh, we're being asked about parking discounts.
[02:07:51.960 --> 02:07:54.680]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, are any parking discounts available by HOPE?
[02:07:54.820 --> 02:08:00.280]  [ROBVINCENT]: I don't, I don't imagine there would be because parking in Midtown Manhattan is kind of a nightmare at the best of times.
[02:08:00.460 --> 02:08:02.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, it depends on a bunch of things.
[02:08:02.820 --> 02:08:05.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, there's even free parking in Manhattan.
[02:08:05.500 --> 02:08:10.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you know what you're doing, uh, residential areas, you can, uh, definitely park for free.
[02:08:10.380 --> 02:08:11.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's just, it gets competitive.
[02:08:12.480 --> 02:08:17.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, there are open lot, uh, parking areas or garages.
[02:08:17.440 --> 02:08:19.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, you might want to go through the hotel.
[02:08:19.980 --> 02:08:21.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, there's all kinds of, of options.
[02:08:21.460 --> 02:08:27.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: You can park in an outer borough and take a subway in, uh, or you can just take mass transit to start with.
[02:08:27.340 --> 02:08:30.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, we're right next to the biggest mass transit hub in the entire country.
[02:08:30.840 --> 02:08:42.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, so, you know, that's a good thing to take advantage of, uh, not worry about your car, uh, because, um, you know, having a car parked on the street is always something that, uh, uh, you're not going to be forgetting about.
[02:08:42.780 --> 02:08:48.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: You won't be able to really relax knowing your car is somewhere and you have to make sure it's not there at a certain time.
[02:08:49.000 --> 02:08:52.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, so look into the options, ask around.
[02:08:53.000 --> 02:08:56.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, it's, you know, this is one of the easiest places in the world to get to.
[02:08:58.840 --> 02:09:00.040]  [GILADRAZEN]: It absolutely is.
[02:09:00.500 --> 02:09:09.440]  [GILADRAZEN]: Um, and yeah, we can, you can take Amtrak.
[02:09:09.600 --> 02:09:13.040]  [GILADRAZEN]: You can, if you haven't been to Moynihan train hall, that's a lot of fun.
[02:09:13.460 --> 02:09:17.180]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, um, New Jersey, Long Island, the railroads go straight into Penn.
[02:09:17.900 --> 02:09:22.180]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, yeah, there, there are, there are many options.
[02:09:22.180 --> 02:09:27.740]  [ROBVINCENT]: And I think, uh, I think a car might be probably one of the less convenient options.
[02:09:28.040 --> 02:09:35.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, all told I'm back over here now because that'll get a call to come in because I have to get up and walk all the way over again to pick up the call.
[02:09:36.820 --> 02:09:37.180]  [ROBVINCENT]: Okay.
[02:09:37.180 --> 02:09:40.640]  [ROBVINCENT]: So if you, if you want to make a manual, I'll have to get up and walk to the other side of a studio.
[02:09:40.900 --> 02:09:43.880]  [ROBVINCENT]: Here's a call at 802-321-4225.
[02:09:44.420 --> 02:09:46.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll get my steps in for today.
[02:09:47.320 --> 02:09:49.880]  [ROBVINCENT]: In the, in the, uh, smallish amount of time we've got left.
[02:09:50.780 --> 02:10:00.000]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, and, uh, one thing we didn't mention, um, I'm sure folks know this, but, uh, this is our first time doing HOPE a year after we've done HOPE.
[02:10:00.280 --> 02:10:00.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, it's not.
[02:10:00.760 --> 02:10:01.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's not true.
[02:10:01.780 --> 02:10:03.300]  [ROBVINCENT]: Uh, that, that is not true.
[02:10:03.520 --> 02:10:03.720]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah.
[02:10:03.820 --> 02:10:04.400]  [ROBVINCENT]: That is not true.
[02:10:04.540 --> 02:10:06.120]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'm completely, I misspoke.
[02:10:06.340 --> 02:10:10.580]  [ROBVINCENT]: No, last year was the first time we did that and we're keeping it going for this time.
[02:10:10.760 --> 02:10:10.960]  [ROBVINCENT]: Sorry.
[02:10:11.020 --> 02:10:11.700]  [ROBVINCENT]: What year is it?
[02:10:11.800 --> 02:10:12.620]  [ROBVINCENT]: And where am I?
[02:10:12.740 --> 02:10:13.460]  [ROBVINCENT]: And who are you people?
[02:10:13.680 --> 02:10:14.200]  [ROBVINCENT]: We all get old.
[02:10:14.280 --> 02:10:14.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's no shame.
[02:10:16.340 --> 02:10:18.760]  [ROBVINCENT]: Someone rolled a five or an eight and I just got out of Jumanji.
[02:10:19.420 --> 02:10:20.920]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, no, this is the, hold on.
[02:10:21.040 --> 02:10:21.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: We can rescue this.
[02:10:21.740 --> 02:10:24.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: This is the first even numbered year.
[02:10:25.040 --> 02:10:25.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:10:25.580 --> 02:10:28.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE that followed another HOPE by one year.
[02:10:29.120 --> 02:10:33.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Last year was the first time we did it, but it was an odd year, 2025.
[02:10:34.340 --> 02:10:36.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: So it was a very, very odd year.
[02:10:38.360 --> 02:10:38.880]  [ROBVINCENT]: Thank you.
[02:10:39.000 --> 02:10:40.580]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'll come out of that with a little, uh, safe face.
[02:10:40.740 --> 02:10:51.220]  [ROBVINCENT]: I appreciate that, but no, yes, we're, we're, it's, it's a yearly conference and, um, the success of this, I think will be a factor in dictating if we can keep doing it as a yearly event.
[02:10:51.420 --> 02:10:51.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:10:51.700 --> 02:10:56.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's, that's the whole thing of buying tickets because, uh, that's how we pay for everything, everything.
[02:10:56.640 --> 02:11:04.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: And there's so much, uh, so, you know, we don't even know for a little while if it was a success until after, you know, all the bills come in.
[02:11:05.300 --> 02:11:13.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, so, uh, please, uh, uh, help us enjoy it a little bit too by not having to agonize and worry about, uh, every, every little penny.
[02:11:13.880 --> 02:11:22.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, so, um, we, we, we still have a couple of hundred seats that, um, uh, we, we, we hope to, um, be able to share with people.
[02:11:22.960 --> 02:11:35.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, hope.net, all the links are there, ways you can buy tickets, ways you can, um, uh, let somebody else into HOPE, ways you can participate virtually, uh, and also ways to donate.
[02:11:35.780 --> 02:11:37.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: Donate to the AV fund at hope.net.
[02:11:39.100 --> 02:11:46.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: And it's tax deductible and that will be a really wonderful, um, Donations would be tax deductible.
[02:11:47.120 --> 02:12:10.780]  [GILADRAZEN]: Donations to things like the, um, AV fundraiser and the scholarship fund, um, are definitely tax deductible and you can, um, if you are a person with an individual retirement account and you have to take required minimum deductions, you can make a pre-tax gift,
[02:12:10.780 --> 02:12:21.620]  [GILADRAZEN]: a qualified charitable donation to straight to the HOPE on Planet Earth Foundation and reduce the amount of tax you have to pay on your RMD.
[02:12:21.620 --> 02:12:23.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let me just correct you on one thing.
[02:12:23.180 --> 02:12:28.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: The scholarship, uh, is not tax deductible because that goes through 2600 and that's not the nonprofit.
[02:12:28.660 --> 02:12:29.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: HOPE is the nonprofit.
[02:12:29.740 --> 02:12:30.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: So... My apologies.
[02:12:31.000 --> 02:12:31.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:12:31.100 --> 02:12:34.840]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, the AV, uh, the AV fund, uh, it's a, it's a common mistake.
[02:12:35.040 --> 02:12:44.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: We, uh, we struggle with it too, but, um, the, uh, the AV donations, uh, that goes, uh, on, on the hope.net site and it'll be very clear there that that's tax deductible.
[02:12:44.620 --> 02:12:59.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: And also, you know, any, any donations to, um, HOPE on Planet Earth, uh, the, uh, the nonprofit, uh, those are, you know, if you have a company, if you know somebody in a company or matching funds, all that kind of thing, uh, all that is tax deductible if it's made to HOPE.
[02:13:02.380 --> 02:13:02.980]  [GILADRAZEN]: Excuse me.
[02:13:03.100 --> 02:13:03.920]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm so sorry.
[02:13:04.200 --> 02:13:04.400]  [GILADRAZEN]: Okay.
[02:13:05.840 --> 02:13:06.280]  [ROBVINCENT]: That's it.
[02:13:06.340 --> 02:13:06.840]  [ROBVINCENT]: You're cut off.
[02:13:07.620 --> 02:13:11.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, on that note, I think we're all cut off because, um, I, I, we didn't get any calls.
[02:13:12.520 --> 02:13:13.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, wait.
[02:13:13.980 --> 02:13:14.700]  [ROBVINCENT]: It happens.
[02:13:15.100 --> 02:13:16.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Did I hang up the phone?
[02:13:16.420 --> 02:13:17.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm not sure if I hung up the phone.
[02:13:18.520 --> 02:13:21.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let me go back over there and check to see if I didn't hang up the phone.
[02:13:24.260 --> 02:13:32.160]  [ROBVINCENT]: While he gets up and, uh, goes over there to check to see if he didn't hang up the phone, um, we can, uh, we can just continue to thank the folks who have been sticking with us.
[02:13:32.300 --> 02:13:32.560]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[02:13:32.880 --> 02:13:34.380]  [GILADRAZEN]: We have still like 40.
[02:13:35.780 --> 02:13:38.780]  [GILADRAZEN]: Rebel, I can kick you out if that would make it easier for you.
[02:13:39.860 --> 02:13:42.000]  [GILADRAZEN]: Uh, cause Rebel just said, could you talk softer?
[02:13:42.140 --> 02:13:43.120]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm trying to sleep here.
[02:13:43.960 --> 02:13:50.340]  [ROBVINCENT]: And he has been typing snoring in the chat, which is, uh, dangerously close to it.
[02:13:50.660 --> 02:13:51.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's like the equivalent of a toner.
[02:13:51.440 --> 02:13:56.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: Remember the toners from the, uh, the 90s telecoms back in the day?
[02:13:57.240 --> 02:13:57.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, yes.
[02:13:58.100 --> 02:13:58.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: I'm sorry, what?
[02:13:59.460 --> 02:13:59.860]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yes.
[02:14:00.700 --> 02:14:01.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:14:01.300 --> 02:14:02.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know, I thought it was strange.
[02:14:02.660 --> 02:14:10.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: I thought it was strange we weren't getting any calls, um, but apparently you have to hit the off button whenever anybody hangs up and I never did that.
[02:14:10.260 --> 02:14:12.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, uh, phone's been off the hook the whole time.
[02:14:12.600 --> 02:14:12.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm sorry.
[02:14:13.360 --> 02:14:14.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, so we'll give it another few minutes.
[02:14:15.060 --> 02:14:16.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: 802-321-4225.
[02:14:17.040 --> 02:14:18.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's see if anybody is still out there.
[02:14:19.860 --> 02:14:20.820]  [ROBVINCENT]: Oh, okay.
[02:14:21.340 --> 02:14:26.500]  [ROBVINCENT]: While, while we're waiting, do you want to, do you want, do you want to keep, um, explaining what toners were, Alex?
[02:14:27.780 --> 02:14:28.260]  [ALEXURBELS]: Oh, yeah.
[02:14:28.380 --> 02:14:41.180]  [ALEXURBELS]: So if you set up an illicit teleconference back in the day where, you know, a bunch of phone phreaks and hackers would get together and exchange information and it would be billed to somebody else's phone line per line that was active or purport and they,
[02:14:41.220 --> 02:14:59.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: as they called it, these exorbitant fines, always billed to somebody else, amazingly, um, there'd always be one person, you know, usually late at night when the code for the teleconference had gotten out to people that it shouldn't have gotten out to and there'd be somebody just holding down a Touch-Tone,
[02:14:59.920 --> 02:15:00.980]  [ALEXURBELS]: just annoying people.
[02:15:01.160 --> 02:15:06.040]  [ALEXURBELS]: You know, people would be talking and then some jerk would be a toner, start pressing the Touch-Tones.
[02:15:06.260 --> 02:15:07.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: That was, uh, that was a toner.
[02:15:08.440 --> 02:15:11.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, so I think that's the equivalent of what Red Bull was doing.
[02:15:11.860 --> 02:15:13.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Are you going to, are you going to talk about pulsers at all?
[02:15:14.020 --> 02:15:15.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Cause boy, they annoyed the hell out of me.
[02:15:16.220 --> 02:15:18.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: Pulsers, I guess that could be even more.
[02:15:18.000 --> 02:15:22.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, I was hoping they would hit, hit the zero on a rotary phone and you'd have to hear the whole thing.
[02:15:22.540 --> 02:15:23.800]  [EVILCORLEY]: It'd go all the way back around.
[02:15:24.300 --> 02:15:25.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, we have a phone call.
[02:15:25.760 --> 02:15:27.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm going to walk over and get that phone call.
[02:15:27.420 --> 02:15:28.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'll be back in a few minutes.
[02:15:28.980 --> 02:15:29.540]  [ALEXURBELS]: All right.
[02:15:29.720 --> 02:15:30.160]  [ROBVINCENT]: All right.
[02:15:30.680 --> 02:15:31.040]  [GILADRAZEN]: Thank you.
[02:15:31.760 --> 02:15:32.380]  [ROBVINCENT]: That's wonderful.
[02:15:32.780 --> 02:15:38.940]  [ROBVINCENT]: Whoever's calling, be patient while, uh, while our, our, uh, our dude goes around to the phone to pick it up.
[02:15:39.360 --> 02:15:42.380]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, uh, someone said, Ooh, extended Overtime.
[02:15:42.600 --> 02:15:42.720]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[02:15:42.800 --> 02:15:47.180]  [GILADRAZEN]: The beauty part of Overtime is we can go as long as we want.
[02:15:47.540 --> 02:15:50.500]  [ROBVINCENT]: And sometimes we do as long or as short as we want.
[02:15:50.700 --> 02:16:00.360]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, um, if we, if we are lucky enough to have a caller here, we can, we can, uh, greet them upon Emmanuel's return to his other, uh, I'm back.
[02:16:00.600 --> 02:16:03.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: I hit the on button and it didn't work at first.
[02:16:03.120 --> 02:16:03.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: I did it again.
[02:16:03.840 --> 02:16:04.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think it works.
[02:16:04.560 --> 02:16:05.960]  [EVILCORLEY]: So let's see if we have a phone call.
[02:16:06.040 --> 02:16:06.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[02:16:06.520 --> 02:16:07.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[02:16:09.300 --> 02:16:09.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[02:16:09.780 --> 02:16:10.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[02:16:10.180 --> 02:16:10.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[02:16:10.660 --> 02:16:15.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just wanted to ask a quick question about, um, um, the event coming up.
[02:16:16.080 --> 02:16:16.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[02:16:16.680 --> 02:16:28.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, why don't you have a system where you can, you know, cause people like myself who can't make the event, I mean, I would have happily paid to watch it online, you know, paid a certain amount of money to watch it online.
[02:16:28.760 --> 02:16:30.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, that's what the virtual ticket is for.
[02:16:30.580 --> 02:16:31.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's what the virtual ticket is.
[02:16:32.820 --> 02:16:33.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, there is?
[02:16:33.740 --> 02:16:34.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: You do a way to buy it online?
[02:16:34.900 --> 02:16:35.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, absolutely.
[02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:36.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's a virtual ticket.
[02:16:36.860 --> 02:16:38.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, it's $99 for the weekend.
[02:16:39.880 --> 02:16:40.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[02:16:40.960 --> 02:16:41.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: I have no idea.
[02:16:42.020 --> 02:16:46.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: If you go, if you go, uh, you know where the store is for the, where the tickets are?
[02:16:47.460 --> 02:16:48.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
[02:16:48.380 --> 02:16:48.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: How do I do that?
[02:16:49.020 --> 02:16:49.020]  [EVILCORLEY]:Okay.
[02:16:49.020 --> 02:16:55.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go to, uh, store.2600.com, uh, and you'll see a big ticket icon at the top.
[02:16:55.880 --> 02:16:56.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: You click that.
[02:16:57.100 --> 02:17:04.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: That'll take you to the, um, in-person tickets, but at the bottom of that page, there's a link to the virtual tickets and, and you should be fine.
[02:17:05.960 --> 02:17:06.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[02:17:06.820 --> 02:17:07.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't know that existed.
[02:17:07.760 --> 02:17:09.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, I guess we should do a better job.
[02:17:09.620 --> 02:17:11.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: We should do a better job, uh, telling people about that.
[02:17:13.640 --> 02:17:13.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[02:17:14.200 --> 02:17:14.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wonderful.
[02:17:14.660 --> 02:17:15.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's my question.
[02:17:15.440 --> 02:17:15.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[02:17:15.860 --> 02:17:16.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:17:16.220 --> 02:17:16.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[02:17:16.560 --> 02:17:16.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Have fun.
[02:17:19.660 --> 02:17:19.980]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[02:17:20.100 --> 02:17:22.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: That's the first call I ever took.
[02:17:22.800 --> 02:17:25.360]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, I have to get up now and hit the off button.
[02:17:25.360 --> 02:17:29.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: So hang on a second system.
[02:17:30.040 --> 02:17:31.280]  [ROBVINCENT]: This is, this is amazing.
[02:17:31.540 --> 02:17:41.620]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, so yes, Emmanuel is getting out of one seat now, walking across the production desk there to another console to, um, turn off the phone.
[02:17:41.780 --> 02:17:48.180]  [ROBVINCENT]: And then he's coming back to his normal seat and microphone, putting his headset back on and, uh, stop talking about it.
[02:17:48.620 --> 02:17:50.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: We don't need, we don't need the play by play.
[02:17:50.480 --> 02:17:58.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, I'll do this transparently, but yeah, I don't know why the buttons are so far away, but it works and there's two people.
[02:17:58.400 --> 02:18:00.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: When it's one person, it gets kind of absurd.
[02:18:00.840 --> 02:18:04.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Um, so, uh, the phone line is open again because I just opened it.
[02:18:04.520 --> 02:18:06.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, 802-321-4225.
[02:18:06.240 --> 02:18:08.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: This will be the last call because, uh, I'm getting out of breath.
[02:18:10.020 --> 02:18:10.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:18:10.460 --> 02:18:11.240]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's getting late here.
[02:18:16.480 --> 02:18:17.680]  [ROBVINCENT]: I'm sure it's getting late in Switzerland.
[02:18:18.200 --> 02:18:20.420]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, have you guys been to Africa at all?
[02:18:22.120 --> 02:18:22.680]  [ALEXURBELS]: Have you ever been there?
[02:18:22.880 --> 02:18:23.100]  [ROBVINCENT]: No.
[02:18:23.360 --> 02:18:24.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're not asking me again.
[02:18:24.540 --> 02:18:25.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, you didn't forget that.
[02:18:25.380 --> 02:18:25.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:18:25.640 --> 02:18:26.920]  [EVILCORLEY]: I already answered this question, right?
[02:18:27.120 --> 02:18:27.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes.
[02:18:28.460 --> 02:18:28.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yes.
[02:18:29.000 --> 02:18:31.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: No, I, I, I remember you wanted to go even to Morocco.
[02:18:32.300 --> 02:18:32.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: Even tomorrow.
[02:18:32.860 --> 02:18:33.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay, good.
[02:18:33.140 --> 02:18:33.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: I remember that.
[02:18:33.760 --> 02:18:33.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:18:34.380 --> 02:18:35.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah, absolutely.
[02:18:35.920 --> 02:18:36.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:18:36.420 --> 02:18:37.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: I even remember that.
[02:18:38.220 --> 02:18:38.820]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's true.
[02:18:39.400 --> 02:18:42.960]  [ROBVINCENT]: I mean, I'm not going to play Sun City, but apart from that, I'd love to see Africa sometime.
[02:18:44.060 --> 02:18:44.460]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:18:44.960 --> 02:18:48.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: I mean, Africa is one of my favorite songs though, by the way.
[02:18:48.620 --> 02:18:49.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: Uh, what?
[02:18:49.160 --> 02:18:49.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: By Toto?
[02:18:50.100 --> 02:18:50.720]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh my God.
[02:18:50.780 --> 02:18:52.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just lost so much respect for you.
[02:18:53.180 --> 02:18:54.960]  [ALEXURBELS]: That song has great lyrics.
[02:18:55.140 --> 02:18:56.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: The lyrics, read the lyrics to the song.
[02:18:56.900 --> 02:18:57.620]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think they're fantastic.
[02:18:57.680 --> 02:19:00.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it's a, I think it's a wonderful musical song.
[02:19:00.140 --> 02:19:04.740]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm curious how a band, how does a band go from hold the line to, to Africa?
[02:19:04.940 --> 02:19:07.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: I mean, I'm, I'm curious about that, but Africa is a great song.
[02:19:08.040 --> 02:19:10.060]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think objectively, I would have another phone call.
[02:19:10.440 --> 02:19:12.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: I would continue this, but I'll be back.
[02:19:12.580 --> 02:19:13.000]  [GILADRAZEN]: All right.
[02:19:13.060 --> 02:19:19.740]  [GILADRAZEN]: So I'm going to mention the scansion of the line in the second verse that almost got me kicked out of my college acapella group.
[02:19:19.940 --> 02:19:21.900]  [ALEXURBELS]: And it has to do with Kilimanjaro.
[02:19:22.340 --> 02:19:22.480]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah.
[02:19:22.880 --> 02:19:23.200]  [GILADRAZEN]: Sure.
[02:19:23.220 --> 02:19:27.840]  [GILADRAZEN]: As Kilimanjaro rises like the Olympus above the Serengeti.
[02:19:28.580 --> 02:19:28.640]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah.
[02:19:28.700 --> 02:19:35.980]  [GILADRAZEN]: But I had the solo on that and it took me so long to grasp the scansion of that line that they almost threw me out.
[02:19:36.420 --> 02:19:36.740]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:19:36.920 --> 02:19:39.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: I remember you mentioned this once a year ago.
[02:19:39.420 --> 02:19:39.840]  [GILADRAZEN]: I'm sure I have.
[02:19:39.940 --> 02:19:40.180]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yes.
[02:19:40.440 --> 02:19:40.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: Yeah.
[02:19:40.660 --> 02:19:40.800]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay.
[02:19:40.920 --> 02:19:41.160]  [ALEXURBELS]: I'm back.
[02:19:41.460 --> 02:19:41.940]  [ALEXURBELS]: Many years ago.
[02:19:42.120 --> 02:19:43.240]  [GILADRAZEN]: It's a fun story to tell.
[02:19:43.400 --> 02:19:43.560]  [GILADRAZEN]: Yeah.
[02:19:43.700 --> 02:19:46.260]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's see if my second phone call is a success.
[02:19:46.260 --> 02:19:46.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: Good evening.
[02:19:46.940 --> 02:19:48.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: You're on Off The Hook Overtime.
[02:19:49.600 --> 02:19:50.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[02:19:50.120 --> 02:19:52.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Your engineering efforts are a success.
[02:19:52.600 --> 02:19:54.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: A little telephonic history for you.
[02:19:54.800 --> 02:19:57.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, you're the telephone guy with all the telephone knowledge, right?
[02:19:58.000 --> 02:20:00.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm the ham with the telephone knowledge.
[02:20:00.720 --> 02:20:02.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're the telephone guy with the ham knowledge or both.
[02:20:03.100 --> 02:20:03.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:20:03.280 --> 02:20:11.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, going back to the mid-1960s, I was probably about eight or so.
[02:20:11.920 --> 02:20:17.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: And WABC at the time had spots running for the 1964 World's Fair.
[02:20:18.100 --> 02:20:30.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the first mass calling thing was a number you could call for the traffic conditions going to the World's Fair, which was 212-999-1234.
[02:20:30.880 --> 02:20:31.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Oh, wow.
[02:20:31.700 --> 02:20:40.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember, I called it, got a recording, and then my parents yelled at me when they got a toll charge on the phone bill.
[02:20:41.300 --> 02:20:41.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[02:20:41.960 --> 02:20:42.440]  [EVILCORLEY]: You know what?
[02:20:42.520 --> 02:20:49.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: That brings back memories, because I do remember now 999 used to be for things like time and weather for a little while.
[02:20:49.500 --> 02:20:53.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I think it turned out to be an exchange for fire departments later.
[02:20:55.000 --> 02:20:56.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true.
[02:20:56.360 --> 02:20:56.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[02:20:56.960 --> 02:21:03.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: And also, a little bit of trivia going back to information calls that you talked about.
[02:21:03.720 --> 02:21:09.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: In the 1970s, it was one particular information service was interesting.
[02:21:09.380 --> 02:21:16.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was when you wanted to call information in San Juan, Puerto Rico, area code 809.
[02:21:16.580 --> 02:21:24.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: You would call it sometimes, and you would get an operator in Jacksonville who would then dial a number in Puerto Rico.
[02:21:25.140 --> 02:21:35.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Then other times, I don't know why this is different, you would get a circuit to Puerto Rico directly and bypass the Jacksonville operator.
[02:21:35.600 --> 02:21:41.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: It was a really strange quirk of the North American numbering plan back in the 1970s.
[02:21:41.080 --> 02:21:41.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[02:21:41.880 --> 02:21:46.520]  [EVILCORLEY]: Do you remember the 903 and 905 area codes that went to Mexico?
[02:21:47.700 --> 02:21:49.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was Mexico.
[02:21:49.180 --> 02:21:51.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Only certain parts of Mexico.
[02:21:51.820 --> 02:22:02.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Before that, the only way you could reach Mexico was if you were an operator and you would dial, I think, 189 plus.
[02:22:02.340 --> 02:22:02.660]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:22:04.140 --> 02:22:09.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Plus, like if you wanted an inward operator, it'd be 189-121, etc.
[02:22:09.800 --> 02:22:10.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[02:22:11.100 --> 02:22:12.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, it was kind of a shortcut.
[02:22:12.600 --> 02:22:19.060]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then they introduced the 706 area code, but they didn't tell the operators about it before we found it.
[02:22:19.440 --> 02:22:28.080]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I had a radio show back in the early 1980s, and we called it on the air, and then we asked an operator, where does this go?
[02:22:28.180 --> 02:22:30.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: And the operator said, there is no 706.
[02:22:31.160 --> 02:22:42.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: So then we hung up, called it, proved that there was, called the operator again, got the same operator who was angry that we went around him, and called 706.
[02:22:43.060 --> 02:22:46.700]  [EVILCORLEY]: And then he had to figure it out himself and said, that's Mexico.
[02:22:46.960 --> 02:22:48.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's like, okay, thank you for telling us.
[02:22:49.800 --> 02:22:51.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's really bizarre.
[02:22:51.420 --> 02:22:53.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's really wild.
[02:22:53.740 --> 02:22:54.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, one other thing.
[02:22:55.240 --> 02:22:57.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Alex, how you doing in the ham studying?
[02:22:57.560 --> 02:23:01.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Any particular problems you got or whatever?
[02:23:01.920 --> 02:23:03.500]  [EVILCORLEY]: He's been going out at night.
[02:23:03.740 --> 02:23:05.240]  [EVILCORLEY]: He's been going out at night.
[02:23:05.360 --> 02:23:06.760]  [EVILCORLEY]: He's not studying like he should.
[02:23:09.300 --> 02:23:10.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: You were right about that.
[02:23:12.180 --> 02:23:18.560]  [ALEXURBELS]: Okay, if you don't get your ticket on at HOPE, we're going to have to harass you a little bit.
[02:23:19.260 --> 02:23:20.400]  [ALEXURBELS]: I know, that's fine.
[02:23:20.400 --> 02:23:21.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: You guys can rip me.
[02:23:21.600 --> 02:23:22.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's fine.
[02:23:22.460 --> 02:23:24.300]  [ALEXURBELS]: I haven't been studying as much as I should.
[02:23:25.440 --> 02:23:29.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's certainly... We're going to harass you in a good-natured way, believe me.
[02:23:30.360 --> 02:23:31.140]  [ALEXURBELS]: That's fine.
[02:23:31.420 --> 02:23:33.520]  [ALEXURBELS]: I don't mind a little harassment every once in a while.
[02:23:33.720 --> 02:23:35.000]  [ALEXURBELS]: I think it's... everybody needs it in all things in moderation, right?
[02:23:40.220 --> 02:23:40.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[02:23:41.880 --> 02:23:47.840]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I have been studying a little bit, and I do intend to take it.
[02:23:48.020 --> 02:23:50.760]  [ALEXURBELS]: I'm just going through at work right now.
[02:23:50.920 --> 02:23:56.440]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's an unbelievably busy time and behind on a little writing.
[02:23:57.040 --> 02:24:01.600]  [ALEXURBELS]: But I do plan on hopefully getting up to speed over the next few weeks.
[02:24:02.200 --> 02:24:03.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: Next two weeks.
[02:24:03.520 --> 02:24:03.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand.
[02:24:03.720 --> 02:24:04.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you'll be fine.
[02:24:04.720 --> 02:24:06.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think you'll do fine.
[02:24:06.360 --> 02:24:08.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: So positive vibes in your direction, my friend.
[02:24:09.000 --> 02:24:09.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[02:24:09.500 --> 02:24:10.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's about it from here, guys.
[02:24:10.860 --> 02:24:11.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:24:11.160 --> 02:24:12.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, thanks so much for your call.
[02:24:12.400 --> 02:24:13.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's always good to hear from you.
[02:24:14.140 --> 02:24:14.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[02:24:14.720 --> 02:24:15.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye-bye.
[02:24:15.260 --> 02:24:15.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Take care.
[02:24:16.220 --> 02:24:24.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: And that's a great call to end with, I think, because... I'll tell you, I love these phone calls from the old-school phone pheaks.
[02:24:24.300 --> 02:24:25.400]  [EVILCORLEY]: And Kyle is back.
[02:24:25.740 --> 02:24:26.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Kyle's back.
[02:24:26.460 --> 02:24:28.820]  [EVILCORLEY]: Hi, everybody.
[02:24:29.540 --> 02:24:30.380]  [KYLEDROSDK]: How are you?
[02:24:30.640 --> 02:24:31.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Dr. Nick is here, too.
[02:24:32.360 --> 02:24:34.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: I hit the off button.
[02:24:35.220 --> 02:24:38.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: I went 10 minutes before I realized I had to hit the off button.
[02:24:38.860 --> 02:24:40.680]  [EVILCORLEY]: I just assumed we were getting no phone calls.
[02:24:41.020 --> 02:24:42.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: So I went over there, hit the off button.
[02:24:42.820 --> 02:24:43.620]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then a phone call came in.
[02:24:43.720 --> 02:24:44.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: I went back, hit the on button.
[02:24:45.280 --> 02:24:47.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Then came back, had a conversation, went back, hit the off button.
[02:24:48.120 --> 02:24:49.380]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do.
[02:24:49.580 --> 02:24:53.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Except for all the getting up and walking around, because you're already sitting over there.
[02:24:53.000 --> 02:24:54.280]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well, I have a little thing.
[02:24:54.400 --> 02:25:00.240]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I was going to make a remote easy button for you, but I haven't built that into our little setup yet.
[02:25:00.700 --> 02:25:02.640]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I need some arcade buttons or something.
[02:25:02.720 --> 02:25:04.120]  [EVILCORLEY]: I don't understand why there's an off button.
[02:25:04.220 --> 02:25:05.320]  [EVILCORLEY]: Why isn't it hanging up enough?
[02:25:07.860 --> 02:25:08.260]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Okay.
[02:25:08.440 --> 02:25:13.940]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Well... Because we are controlling it through a proper... I guess I'm not really hanging up.
[02:25:14.040 --> 02:25:15.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: I'm just turning it down, so...
[02:25:15.460 --> 02:25:18.080]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, you're muting it on your output.
[02:25:18.160 --> 02:25:20.000]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah, a cell phone knows when you've hung up.
[02:25:20.040 --> 02:25:21.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: You don't have to hit a button that says hang up.
[02:25:21.760 --> 02:25:23.480]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Yeah, I'm just in charge of the phone call.
[02:25:23.620 --> 02:25:24.520]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I'm not the audio engineer.
[02:25:24.620 --> 02:25:25.540]  [KYLEDROSDK]: You're doing the engineering.
[02:25:26.080 --> 02:25:26.540]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right.
[02:25:26.600 --> 02:25:27.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Well, you know what?
[02:25:27.200 --> 02:25:32.580]  [EVILCORLEY]: I think we're done here, because we've been at this a long time, and we're starting to lose focus.
[02:25:33.540 --> 02:25:34.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Please write to us.
[02:25:34.460 --> 02:25:36.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: oth@2600.com.
[02:25:36.860 --> 02:25:38.140]  [EVILCORLEY]: Make your plans to come to HOPE.
[02:25:38.440 --> 02:25:42.040]  [EVILCORLEY]: Spread the word, because that's really where we have trouble, is getting word out.
[02:25:43.020 --> 02:25:43.380]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yeah.
[02:25:43.680 --> 02:25:44.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: Getting media attention.
[02:25:46.380 --> 02:25:49.340]  [EVILCORLEY]: Unless you're involved in some kind of a scandal, it's almost impossible.
[02:25:49.660 --> 02:25:50.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: It really is almost impossible.
[02:25:51.580 --> 02:25:54.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: So that's where we could really use help, is spreading the word.
[02:25:54.860 --> 02:25:55.640]  [EVILCORLEY]: Let's look at the program.
[02:25:55.880 --> 02:26:08.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: Look at the speakers, the workshops that we have planned, and if you agree that that's awesome, unique, and valuable, let somebody know about it, and make HOPE even better.
[02:26:09.260 --> 02:26:10.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any closing words, folks?
[02:26:11.880 --> 02:26:13.780]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I just want to thank people for doing that.
[02:26:14.100 --> 02:26:14.760]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Go ahead.
[02:26:15.060 --> 02:26:15.280]  [EVILCORLEY]: Go ahead.
[02:26:15.400 --> 02:26:16.100]  [EVILCORLEY]: No, you, Kyle, first.
[02:26:16.100 --> 02:26:22.140]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I just want to say, thanks for spreading the word, because that, that, every little bit of that goes such a long way.
[02:26:22.280 --> 02:26:29.720]  [KYLEDROSDK]: Like, just telling people, sharing about it, it, it really matters a huge amount to us.
[02:26:29.840 --> 02:26:30.540]  [KYLEDROSDK]: So, I don't know.
[02:26:30.620 --> 02:26:42.400]  [KYLEDROSDK]: I just can't thank people enough for talking about HOPE, boosting it, you know, just telling, sharing, you know, their memories, and make, and making plans for new ones, because that's why we're doing this.
[02:26:42.400 --> 02:26:51.500]  [KYLEDROSDK]: And if you like it, you know, invest in it a little bit, and I'm, I'm guaranteeing you, there's a whole lot of people that want to make it worth your while.
[02:26:52.060 --> 02:26:52.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Yes, definitely.
[02:26:53.140 --> 02:26:58.880]  [EVILCORLEY]: And, uh, it's getting to the point where we're realizing how much fun it's going to be, because so many things are coming together so quickly.
[02:26:59.300 --> 02:27:01.220]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, so, uh, be a part of that.
[02:27:01.320 --> 02:27:04.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: It's, it's, it's definitely going to be something you remember all the time.
[02:27:05.120 --> 02:27:07.780]  [EVILCORLEY]: Any, uh, final words, guys, in, uh, Signal-land?
[02:27:08.860 --> 02:27:15.220]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, I'll just reiterate that, um, I really do believe this is going to be one of the best HOPEs ever.
[02:27:15.560 --> 02:27:18.120]  [ALEXURBELS]: Um, I'm excited about it when I went and visited the space.
[02:27:18.520 --> 02:27:19.480]  [ALEXURBELS]: It's fantastic.
[02:27:19.840 --> 02:27:22.200]  [ALEXURBELS]: And, um, look forward to seeing you all there.
[02:27:24.020 --> 02:27:26.260]  [ROBVINCENT]: Yeah, support HOPE, support WBAI.
[02:27:26.480 --> 02:27:30.580]  [ROBVINCENT]: Um, fundraising is still going on, buddy.wbai.org.
[02:27:31.080 --> 02:27:35.120]  [ROBVINCENT]: And, uh, help keep us doing what we do here and on the radio.
[02:27:35.540 --> 02:27:35.940]  [GILADRAZEN]: Whoa!
[02:27:35.940 --> 02:27:36.080]  [GILADRAZEN]: Whoa!
[02:27:36.740 --> 02:27:37.540]  [GILADRAZEN]: On the radio.
[02:27:39.240 --> 02:27:39.560]  [EVILCORLEY]: Wow.
[02:27:40.400 --> 02:27:40.600]  [EVILCORLEY]: Okay.
[02:27:40.900 --> 02:27:41.300]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, fair enough.
[02:27:41.300 --> 02:27:41.480]  [EVILCORLEY]: Sorry.
[02:27:41.980 --> 02:27:42.440]  [GILADRAZEN]: Couldn't help it.
[02:27:44.120 --> 02:27:44.860]  [EVILCORLEY]: All right, folks.
[02:27:44.940 --> 02:27:48.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: Uh, we'll see you next week for the, uh, call-in show on WBAI.
[02:27:48.540 --> 02:27:49.460]  [EVILCORLEY]: No Overtime next week.
[02:27:50.300 --> 02:27:54.420]  [EVILCORLEY]: And I don't know if there'll be one the week after that, because I think that's, uh, the show right before HOPE.
[02:27:54.600 --> 02:27:55.200]  [EVILCORLEY]: So, we'll see.
[02:27:55.300 --> 02:27:55.900]  [EVILCORLEY]: We'll see what happens.