From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 04:58:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA32406; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:48:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 04:48:53 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Sun's Potassium Deficiency, Ocean's Chlorine Glut.
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:48:15 +0000
Message-ID: <19970301124813.AAA26668 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"c6mGx3.0.Fw7.pM26p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4629
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On the Sun (ppm)     Crustal (ppm)         Sea Water (mg/liter)

Al   2                 78,000                     0.01
Na   2                 21,000                     10,500
K    ?                 22,500                     380
Ca   1.5               47,000                     400
Fe   1.5               48,000                     0.01
Cl    ?                122                        19,000

Where is the Chlorine in sea water coming from? 
Where did the Potassium go, on the Sun or in the ocean?

1H1 + 19K-39 =  20Ca-40. Something to the reported K to Ca in chickens?

Is the Iron fissioning into Chlorine etc., in the Ocean:

1H1 + 26Fe-56 = 17Cl-35 + 10Ne-20 etc., ?  

Should we be exporting bananas to the Sun? <G>


Regards,         Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 05:52:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA08895; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 05:37:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 05:37:58 -0800
Message-ID: <33180BDD.5FA7 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 21:28:37 +1030
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hschulze collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Large Diamagnetic Effects in FerroMagnetic Material
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"PGjvI2.0.sA2.p436p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4630
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All,

Thanks to Michael J. Schaffer (Schaffer gav.gat.com) I have been
able to define the ferromagnetic characteristics for this effect
to work.  This diamagnetic effect is many hundreds, if not
thousands of times greater than that found in normal diamagnetic
material.

I have found a commercially available material which
should show the effect.  The material is Siemens/TDK ferrite U60.
This material has low permeability and low saturation, both of which
are necessary for the effect to work.  I have copied the mfg B/H
data into Qfield and verified the effect.  I have ordered a sample
of the material and will report on the results.

I have sent a zip file of the Qfield sims to the DNMEC Gif list.

All feedback is welcome.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 06:30:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA17017; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:01:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:01:00 -0800
Message-Id: <199702251847.KAA05880 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:44:53 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: CF driven by exceptions
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <3312fffc.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"2FROy.0.r84.DRp4p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4513
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Peter,

I beg to differ. I do not think that CF is an entirely surface effect whether 
the surface is defined as true surface of surfaces of grains. It may be that 
flux is the key rather than loading but the two are closely tied. Certainly 
there is good evidence for bulk effects. Take for instance events that occur 
that involve tens of millions of nearly simultaneous nuclear reactions. I find 
it harder to conceive of those taking place on a surface as opposed to within a 
bulk lattice region. The surface is two dimensional and there for limiting the 
bulk is three dimensional and more accomodating to large numbers. 

Russ George

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 07:29:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA10559; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 07:20:12 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 07:20:12 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Heavy Metal Fission in Sea Water?
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:19:27 +0000
Message-ID: <19970301151925.AAA16692 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"P9D55.0.sa2.fa46p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4631
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

1H1* + 47Ag-107 = 17Cl-35 + 11Na-23 + 20Ca-50 + 935 Mev.

1H1* is a proton that has taken up a "light electron" to make
a small hydrogen atom that can go into a nucleus and effect thermonuclear
reactions.

Salt and calcium plus about 312 Mev kinetic energy each for fragments
in sea water sans radiation for fission of any element with Z greater
than 44 ?

That beats fission of U-235 by a factor of almost 5. 

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 09:56:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA25570; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:50:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:50:53 -0800
Message-ID: <3313666E.745B microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:53:42 +1030
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com,
        Newman-l <newman-l emachine.com>
Subject: Re: Room Temp Levitation
References: <9702251014233114 emachine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"R5USW.0.jD6.fos4p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4527
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Newman-l wrote:
> 
>   The problem with this idea is that a ferro magnetic materiel will
> simply saturate, but it will still allow some of the flux to pass
> through itself.  Since the flux lines "want" to make themselves as short
> as possible, they will pull the ferromagnetic materiel against the
> magnet very tightly.

As the Gifs show, the flux lines are bent away from the sphere and hence
the sphere will be repelled.  The Quick Field sim confirms the sphere
will
be pushed away from the magnet.  The force vector moves from -90 to +90
as the sphere goes diamagnetic.

>    Here's another thought; a Neo magnet will easily saturate a bunch of
> iron filings if they are allowed to become attracted to the surface of
> the Neo.  If your idea is correct, the filings should then be repelled
> from the surface of the magnet.  I don't think the state change you
> envision will actually take place.

I don't think iron filings will saturate, but I will do a sim run to
check it out.

>    As I understand it, the principle of superconducting magnetic
> repulsion is that the magnetic field cannot enter the superconductor,
> hence the superconductor is forced away from the magnet by the flux
> lines which attempt to maintain their "shape" and oppose being distorted
> by being pushed aside by the intrusion of the superconductor in their
> space.

Exactly what the QF Gifs show.

>    Ralph

Hi Ralph,

I haven't done actual tests let.  It is not easy to find ferromagnetic
material which will saturate at low flux levels (0.2T).  Seems more of
the work in FM has been to increase the sat levels to around 2T and most
of the material is around 1 - 2T.  Have any ideas as to material to
test?

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 10:18:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA13249; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:07:30 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:07:30 -0800
Message-Id: <199703011806.KAA28755 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 10:08:49 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Fission in Sea Water?
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <19970301151925.AAA16692 LOCALNAME>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"32nWR1.0.LE3.P176p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4632
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Oh come on guys lets get off this fantasy 935 Mev....where are the resulting 
knock on products. While there are a few unusual new nuclear reactions being 
observed that doesn't mean everything we've seen before has to go away.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 12:38:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA15378; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:13:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:13:32 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530500af3e3dda0b67 [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 11:15:39 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Fission in Sea Water?
Resent-Message-ID: <"OMfhn3.0.vh3.St86p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4633
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>1H1* + 47Ag-107 = 17Cl-35 + 11Na-23 + 20Ca-50 + 935 Mev.
>
>1H1* is a proton that has taken up a "light electron" to make
>a small hydrogen atom that can go into a nucleus and effect thermonuclear
>reactions.
>
>Salt and calcium plus about 312 Mev kinetic energy each for fragments
>in sea water sans radiation for fission of any element with Z greater
>than 44 ?
>
>That beats fission of U-235 by a factor of almost 5.
>
>Regards,    Frederick


If there are no light neutrinos shouldn't that reaction spit out the light
electron and let it continue it's nuclearly catalytic behavior?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 13:20:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA11031; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:08:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:08:06 -0800
Date: 01 Mar 97 16:05:38 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: More Meyer
Message-ID: <970301210538_100060.173_JHB127-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"rfEE-3.0.rg2.Zg96p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4634
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

As I reported earlier, I wrote to Hans Nieper asking whether he had any positive
information re: the Meyer water fuel cell, after he had been quoted to me by
Meyer as a reference to support the validity his claims.

I have received a very detailed response from Dr Nieper with many copies of
correspondence between him and others as well as copies of articles etc.(some in
German).  In a nutshell he has never been to Meyer's workshop in Ohio and has
not witnessed the actual devices other than via the video recordings supplied by
Meyer.  I gather this includes the dune-buggy supposedly running on a WFC but
apparently with some hydrocarbon input as well.

However he makes a statement to the effect that Lewis Nasa, of Cleveland has
certified the Meyer water fuel cell as 3 times over-unity, and that the cell
runs cool as the H is generated.

Dr Nieper says that he will be in the States at Temple University, Phila, on
March 17 and will be showing the ML converter running ou at a constant 3 kW
indefinitely.  Is it possible that Hal Puthoff will also be there and can report
back to Vortex?  I think that the sponsors of this event are Crestview Aerospace
Corp., of Crestview, Florida, and that Meyer may well be demonstrating there as
well.

I'm confused, so any enlightenment as to who is Lewis Nasa and what is going on
at Temple University will be appreciated.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:01:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA21388; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:49 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 03:48:47 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3320e963.7627569 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970301210538_100060.173_JHB127-1 CompuServe.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970301210538_100060.173_JHB127-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"STMrf.0.XD5.6hE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4641
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On 01 Mar 97 16:05:38 EST, Norman Horwood wrote:
[snip]
>Dr Nieper says that he will be in the States at Temple University, Phila, on
>March 17 and will be showing the ML converter running ou at a constant 3 kW
>indefinitely.  Is it possible that Hal Puthoff will also be there and can report
>back to Vortex?  I think that the sponsors of this event are Crestview Aerospace

Hal, 

If you go, could you take a Geiger counter with you, as it has been
suggested that the Swiss ML converter actually uses radioactive elements as
its power source.
[snip]


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:03:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA21087; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:12 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:12 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic waves
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 03:48:40 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <331cdf6c.5076417 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <v02140b11af3ce6381c4d [198.133.146.230]>
In-Reply-To: <v02140b11af3ce6381c4d [198.133.146.230]>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"zxEuD1.0.E95.VgE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4638
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:06:42 -0800, Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote:
[snip]
>Yes, E and H are in phase in a traveling PLANE wave.  They are not in phase
>in standing PLANE waves.  It's just a matter of doing the math and seeing
>how sinusiodal waves add and cancel one another (interference is the
>technical term).
>
[snip]
I don't suppose you could post the math could you (please)?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:13:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA21186; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:27 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Fission in Sea Water?
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 03:48:44 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <331fe865.7374214 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970301151925.AAA16692 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970301151925.AAA16692 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"2_FeN.0.cA5.jgE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4640
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:19:27 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:

>1H1* + 47Ag-107 = 17Cl-35 + 11Na-23 + 20Ca-50 + 935 Mev.
>
[snip]
I suggest you recheck the math. I get an energy from this reaction of about

  "-" 3 MeV, i.e. it is endothermic. Given that 935 MeV is about the mass
of a nucleon, I suspect a counting error somewhere in the calculations.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:15:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA21059; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:07 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:07 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic waves
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 03:48:41 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <331de0c8.5424491 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970228122028_476119393 emout06.mail.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <970228122028_476119393 emout06.mail.aol.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"C-jkt3.0.v85.SgE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4637
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:20:28 -0500 (EST), Puthoff aol.com wrote:

>Robin,
>
>Aren't you basically talking about the standing-wave-mode patterns in a
>standard (e.g., microwave) cavity?
>
>Hal
Well Michael Schaffer actually answered my question even more fully than I
expected. So I suppose the answer to your question is that it would only be
the same in a cavity of the right form, i.e. with flat walls?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:15:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA21145; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:49:21 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Sun's Potassium Deficiency, Ocean's Chlorine Glut.
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 03:48:43 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <331ee5f1.6745827 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970301124813.AAA26668 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970301124813.AAA26668 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"DDr1P2.0.2A5.egE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4639
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:48:15 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>Is the Iron fissioning into Chlorine etc., in the Ocean:
>
>1H1 + 26Fe-56 = 17Cl-35 + 10Ne-20 etc., ?  
>
Without even having done the sums, I think this would result in a far
higher level of neon in the air, than we actually have.
[snip]


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:20:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA22972; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:54:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:54:47 -0800
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:55:08 -0800
Message-Id: <199703020355.TAA06508 netserve.kfalls.net>
X-Sender: me2 kfalls.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: ME2 KFALLS.NET (Don Evans)
Subject: grav shield
Resent-Message-ID: <"t4PoN2.0.Uc5.elE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4642
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

just a note to let everyone know i havent given upon tampere duplication or
after the frustration after placing large Heavy) objects above the shield
and it induceing a rotion in the object rather than a shielding effect we
did make a video and have pictures but have not had much time to spend on
this.    as you know i own an operate a ISP (internet service provider) we
are taking this service nation wide (all the u.s. and canada, including
alaska and Hawaii) i am very busy we are opening 20 pops through out the
u.s. in the next 2 months.  we are able to give anyone complete and total
access via a 800 number for unlimited access to the internet for 19.95 /
month(no long distance charges involved, we've take care of that, so if
there is a phone and computer you have access). any way we are expecting
20,000 new subscribers in the next 2 months so between traveling,
negotiations, and a couple hours at home, i have been busy, hopefully,
things will settle down after upgrades and the addition of 2,000 more phone
lines.  around may or june i will continue my love of tinkering,  and should
have a real lab set up.  please dont take the mentioning of what we are
doing as a spam, i seem to be emailing to a few people everyother day and
having to explain why i havent had any recent post. i am sorry, but i
thought to explain to everyone why i havent had time to answer everyone.  i
will resume experiments as soon as possible, but the money to set up a lab
and everything has to take a back burner to make a couple dollars to support
my love of tinkering.  i hope you understand this.  i will continue to
monitor these lists as often as posible and try to answer emails but please
understand if i dont check in for a few days at a time.  those that dont
understand because i dont capitalise or puntuate or spell correctly forgive
me thats just the way i do things  i dont bother with the details but try to
get my ideas across, seems my mind always works faster than the clubs they
call fingersthat punch several keays at once  then i seem to offend some
one.  not my intentions   anyweay this is getting rather long i wish
everyone well and hope you prosper as i have  regaurds ,  Don

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:21:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA26277; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:04:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:04:58 -0800
Date: 01 Mar 97 19:36:50 EST
From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <76570.2270 compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Message-ID: <970302003650_76570.2270_FHU31-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"fu8xf1.0.2P6.-uE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4644
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Norman,

Very interested in finding out more about this Temple University demo by Nieper.
I can arrange to be there. Need details. If it's 3kW output, what is the alleged
input -- if any?

Could this be sponsored by the Frontier Perspectives group, which is into
alternative medical stuff? I know those folks and will ask them what they know.
They are at Temple Univ.

Gene Mallove 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:21:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA26053; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:04:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:04:33 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:12:13 +0000
Message-ID: <19970301221211.AAA2356 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"-QMDd.0.cL6.buE6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4643
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 09:05 PM 3/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>As I reported earlier, I wrote to Hans Nieper asking whether he had any
positive
>information re: the Meyer water fuel cell, after he had been quoted to me by
>Meyer as a reference to support the validity his claims.
>
>I have received a very detailed response from Dr Nieper with many copies of
>correspondence between him and others as well as copies of articles
etc.(some in
>German).  In a nutshell he has never been to Meyer's workshop in Ohio and has
>not witnessed the actual devices other than via the video recordings
supplied by
>Meyer.  I gather this includes the dune-buggy supposedly running on a WFC but
>apparently with some hydrocarbon input as well.
>
>However he makes a statement to the effect that Lewis Nasa, of Cleveland has
>certified the Meyer water fuel cell as 3 times over-unity, and that the cell
>runs cool as the H is generated.
>
>Dr Nieper says that he will be in the States at Temple University, Phila, on
>March 17 and will be showing the ML converter running ou at a constant 3 kW
>indefinitely.  Is it possible that Hal Puthoff will also be there and can
report
>back to Vortex?  I think that the sponsors of this event are Crestview
Aerospace
>Corp., of Crestview, Florida, and that Meyer may well be demonstrating there as
>well.
>
>I'm confused, so any enlightenment as to who is Lewis Nasa and what is going on
>at Temple University will be appreciated.
>
>Norman
>
If you look at the Volts and Amperes going into a cell to get Hydrogen and
Oxygen off, then calculate the heat of the potassium atoms recombining at
the cathode and giving off hydrogen after the ions have picked up 
their electrons; 2 K +  2 H2O = 2 KOH + H2.

Then two hydroxyls (OH) recombining at the anode: 2 OH = H2O + 1/2 O2, and
plug in the recombining energy of the H2 + 1/2 O2 gasses you should come out
with a thermodynamic "squeaker" that is just short of 3 times the energy put
into the electrical energy at the power plant. Or if you use a battery or
hand cranked generator, the same thing. 

No free energy, just a little leeway in thermodynamics. A great "heat pump"
as Larry Wharton and Robin van Spaandonk said.

Regards, Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 19:58:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA02394; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:42:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:42:21 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Fission in Sea Water?
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 03:36:39 +0000
Message-ID: <19970302033637.AAA6101 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"u6gcT.0.Jb.QSF6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4645
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:48 AM 3/2/97 +0000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>On Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:19:27 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>
>>1H1* + 47Ag-107 = 17Cl-35 + 11Na-23 + 20Ca-50 + 935 Mev.
>>
>[snip]
>I suggest you recheck the math. I get an energy from this reaction of about
>
>  "-" 3 MeV, i.e. it is endothermic. Given that 935 MeV is about the mass
>of a nucleon, I suspect a counting error somewhere in the calculations.
>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk

Found it Robin. Had an AMU value in a storage register in my calculator
that was one digit off for sodium. When I saw that 935 Mev value this morning
I double checked the registers, or so I thought. I also get an 
endothermic minus 3 Mev result. :-(

Thanks for the tip, for a moment there thought we had a real eureka going.
However, there are a lot of two particle fission channels that will do up to
about 14 Mev.

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  1 23:25:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA04688; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:45:39 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:45:39 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <331921FC.167EB0E7 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 22:45:16 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: magnetic levitation?
References: <199703011806.KAA28755 mom.hooked.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"iDcNV3.0.A91.I8I6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4646
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

There was a story on CNN last night about a group 
of finnish (?) university researchers who had discovered
a way to magnetically (?) levitate organic matter. I didn't
see the main story, only saw some of the video at the end. The
effect clearly works, as they showed levitatation of a nut, a spider,
a catepillar, etc (the latter all still alive).

I haven't heard anything else on it, and the story did not repeat
on CNN. Does anyone know what these researchers were doing?

(Note: they were not at Tampere or in any way connected to podkletnov;
I think they were at something like "catholic university" or
some such.)



-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 02:07:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA25257; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:57:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:57:31 -0800
Date: 02 Mar 97 04:56:07 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Message-ID: <970302095607_100060.173_JHB49-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"b_laK1.0.WA6.AyK6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4648
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick,

>> If you look at the Volts and Amperes going into a cell to get Hydrogen and
Oxygen off, then calculate the heat of the potassium atoms recombining at
the cathode and giving off hydrogen after the ions have picked up
their electrons; 2 K +  2 H2O = 2 KOH + H2. <<

This would be fine if the Meyer cell contained KOH or any other electrolyte.
Unfortunately it is supposed to work better with distilled water - in fact the
addition of ions will kill the action - as was demonstrated in the court "proof"
of fraud when the expert tipped in some NaCl and the thing effectively shorted
out.  So the "heat pump" theory goes down the plug-hole.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 02:07:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA04359; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:57:24 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:57:24 -0800 (PST)
Date: 02 Mar 97 04:56:09 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: magnetic levitation?
Message-ID: <970302095609_100060.173_JHB49-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"koxUs1.0.141.2yK6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4647
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Barry,

>> The effect clearly works, as they showed levitatation of a nut, a spider,
a catepillar, etc (the latter all still alive). <<

Are you sure that the Finns don't use March 1st instead of April 1st.  Who was
the nut and where were the spider and caterpillar suspended from on their webs -
the internet I assume<G>

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 02:18:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA26159; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 02:09:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 02:09:45 -0800
Date: 02 Mar 97 05:08:24 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Message-ID: <970302100823_100060.173_JHB34-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"bZMgk2.0.fO6.e7L6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4649
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Gene,

>> Very interested in finding out more about this Temple University demo by
Nieper.
I can arrange to be there. Need details. If it's 3kW output, what is the alleged
input -- if any?

Could this be sponsored by the Frontier Perspectives group, which is into
alternative medical stuff? I know those folks and will ask them what they know.
They are at Temple Univ. <<

You can probably get more out of your contacts at Temple than I can from Nieper.
I gathered the presumed sponsors from the German literature which Nieper sent me
- but my German is limited to recognising English type text in the morass of
20-character multi-words. I would fax you some of the stuff, but my copies are
bad Xerox copies of very small fonts which look like bad copies of the
originals.

FWIW Nieper's fax No. is:     +49 511 31 84 17   (Hannover Germany)  I think its
a combined voice/fax line so you have to wait after connection for the fax to
come to life.  I think its his home, so you might be able to speak to him.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 02:29:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05554; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:55:57 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:55:57 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Fission in Sea Water?
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:54:46 +0000
Message-ID: <19970301215445.AAA26408 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"RjTXj3.0.9M1.XNA6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4635
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:15 PM 3/1/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>>1H1* + 47Ag-107 = 17Cl-35 + 11Na-23 + 20Ca-50 + 935 Mev.
>>
>>1H1* is a proton that has taken up a "light electron" to make
>>a small hydrogen atom that can go into a nucleus and effect thermonuclear
>>reactions.
>>
>>Salt and calcium plus about 312 Mev kinetic energy each for fragments
>>in sea water sans radiation for fission of any element with Z greater
>>than 44 ?
>>
>>That beats fission of U-235 by a factor of almost 5.
>>
>>Regards,    Frederick
>
>
>If there are no light neutrinos shouldn't that reaction spit out the light
>electron and let it continue it's nuclearly catalytic behavior?
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner

That is the way that I see it. When you are counting a few neutrinos a week
in tons of gallium from a flux of about 3E14/meter^2 * second from the sun,
I would say that they are "light".

A contact at Hanford says to call these things something other than
electrons even though (if they exist) they are Leptons. I started out
calling them Calorons last year when I first proposed their existance.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 02:42:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA04744; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 02:33:40 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 02:33:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 10:33:06 +0000
Message-ID: <19970302103304.AAA8639 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"HfVbH2.0.2A1.2UL6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4650
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:56 AM 3/2/97 +0000, Norman wrote:

>This would be fine if the Meyer cell contained KOH or any other electrolyte.
>Unfortunately it is supposed to work better with distilled water - in fact the
>addition of ions will kill the action - as was demonstrated in the court
"proof"
>of fraud when the expert tipped in some NaCl and the thing effectively shorted
>out.  So the "heat pump" theory goes down the plug-hole.
>
Clockwise or counter-clockwise?   <G>

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 03:10:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA05254; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 03:01:45 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 03:01:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:01:12 +0000
Message-ID: <19970302110110.AAA551 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"pxa713.0.0I1.NuL6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4651
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Norman:

I have a thought. Do you have a feel for the field strength across a cell
and the magnitude of the currents involved?

Thanks in advance.

Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 03:56:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA00748; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 03:46:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 03:46:46 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:46:09 +0000
Message-ID: <19970302114607.AAA1268 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"4fyPd1.0.YB.bYM6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4652
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

I reread the article by John O'M Bockris in issue #10 of IE relating to his
thoughts on the Stanley Meyer device, and the Szklarczyk and Bockris work on
pure water in 1987.

Since the inception of the hypothesis of the presence of Negative-Positive
electrical particle pairs of mass substantially below that of
electron-positron pairs I have concluded that these particles have an
affinity for the highly polar water molecule and can exist attached to the
them without annihilation.

The well known phenomenon of "autoionization" of water seems to go against
reason when you consider that the ionization energy for water is about 12
electron volts.

The proposed light pairs of Me/137, Me/137^2, or Me/137^3 with the same +/-
charge as electrons can according to accepted physics "orbit" a proton or
deuteron (because of the relativistic mass increase and near light speed
velocities that can be attained)and make a very small neutral hydrogen atom
that can interact with a nucleus and effect nuclear reactions.

The Bockris article tends to show some support of the thought that high
field intensities can either pull these particles off the water molecules or
cause a drag effect if the particles "detach" from the water molecules etc.

This would explain why introduction of ionic species "shorts out" the cells
at the required field levels.

I guess only time will tell if the proposed particles will be isolated and
will explain most of the "Cold Fusion" phenomena.

Regards,   Frederick

From Tstolper aol.com  Sun Mar  2 04:47:20 1997
Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com (emout13.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.39]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA03425; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 04:47:18 -0800
From: Tstolper aol.com
Received: (from root localhost)
	  by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0)
	  id HAA18947;
	  Sun, 2 Mar 1997 07:46:48 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 07:46:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970302074645_-1507195324 emout13.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
cc: billb eskimo.com
Subject: Re: SciAm Frontiers
Status: RO
X-Status: A

For Bill Beaty:

Bill,

You asked if anyone would be interested in contacting the person working on
the forthcoming Scientific American Frontiers program.

Yes, I'd be interested.

But there wasn't any signature or return address in the message that you
posted from that anonymous person.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 04:54:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA06448; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 04:44:56 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 04:44:56 -0800 (PST)
Date: 02 Mar 97 07:44:13 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Message-ID: <970302124412_100060.173_JHB43-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"dkGQg3.0.ga1.7PN6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4653
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick,

>> Do you have a feel for the field strength across a cell
and the magnitude of the currents involved? <<

Well,  trying to remember the work I did over many weeks with the cells I made
to Meyer's design,  the gap between the outer cylinder and the inner was 0.5mm.
and the dia. 15mm and length 250mm.   I used distilled water as supplied for
battery topping by the local pharmacy.

The voltage varied between 10k and 20k pulsed sq.wave dc which I got from a high
duty car ignition coil fed from a 100W audio transformer at frequencies ranging
from 5kHz to 25 kHz.

There were variable inductors and resistors in series whose values escape me
now, but the aim was to induce resonance in the cell, but I never achieved that
condition.  I put that down to the very variable impedance and capacitance of
the cell as H & O bubbles came off the electrodes.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 05:41:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA05362; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:32:07 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:32:07 -0800
From: JNaudin509 aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 08:31:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970302083133_1713514750 emout14.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: G Strain Energy Absorber test
Resent-Message-ID: <"zyy5h.0.iJ1.N5O6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4655
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>From : Jean-Louis Naudin
To : Horace Heffner

On 01/03/1997  17:38:24, you wrote :

<< Very nice presentation on your web page!
 
 I looks like there may be a problem of insufficient resolution in your
 scope. It is 50 MHz, but you are doing V*I calcs over a 700 ns interval.
 This could cause significant errors to crop up. For example, in the NLPG11
 - Feb 1977 chart, (see around 0.30 us) there are intervals where both V and
 I are positive yet power is shown as negative. Is this a resolution
 problem, or am I misinterpreting the chart?
 
 Regards,
 
 Horace Heffner          
  >>

Thank you for your comments, Horace, I agree with you that in my"NLPG11 - Feb
97 chart", the gap in calculation of negative and positive power seems short,
particularly around the 0.30 us on the graphics picture because of the
difference of amplitude between power and value of current/voltage. This is
the reason why I have added today the graph picture which represents only
voltage/current value. You can see in this voltage/current graph, that the
voltage have +15v and current -9 A around 0.25us. I have made many other
measurements with different kinds of load, like capacitor, light bulb (non
linear resistor), inductance, these new  scope pictures are on my web server.
I think that this new datas can help the thinking to progress about the GSEA
device. Some persons have already build the GSEA device with similar power
results, and others start building it today, I am impatient to receive their
tests reports.

Nice to speak with you soon,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509 aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509 aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 15:32:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA08453; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 15:11:05 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 15:11:05 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <331A1600.71D microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 09:36:24 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hschulze collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional Magnetic Configuration.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"MH1lY3.0.w32.zZW6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4656
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All,

I have just produced a ZIP file of the following paper which
has been discussed lightly here.  Part of the Rod & Coil discussion
was formed from this research.  My DNMEC development has confirmed
the case of the opposing fields causing the point of max flux density
to be outside the air gap.  The increased voltage observed in this paper
further adds to the DNMEC theory on the earlier Rod & Coil test.  This 
work also ties back to the Newman Motor's operational characteristics of 
increased vlotage production.  I thank Epitaxy localaccess.com for the 
following Header:

The article has been posted to the DNMEC Gif list.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages
> 6015-6020)
> PUBLISHED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHYSICS.
> 
> TITLE:
> Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional
> Magnetic Configuration
> 
> PREFACE:
> The behavior of an LCR (inductance-capacitance-resistance) circuit with a
> moveable ferromagnetic core is discussed.  The core is attracted by a
> magnetic field generated by an electric current resulting from the
> discharge of a capacitor in the closed LCR circuit.  An unusual increase in
> recharge voltage, which was dependent on the magnetic configuration of the
> coil, was observed.  This voltage increase does not conform to the
> mathematical simulation of the system.  The possibility that a positive
> electromotive force was involved in this effect is discussed.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> The following is a particularly interesting statement from this article:
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "Generally speaking, it is expected that the total recharge voltage will
> decrease because this system produces mechanical output as the core moves.
> However, through a series of experiments, it was discovered that results
> depend on the magnetic configuration of the coils used in the circuit.  In
> other words, for a certain kind of magnetic field, the opposite result
> could occur --- an increase in the average current and recharge voltage.
> To confirm the above observations, an experiment was conducted, which is
> described in this article."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> The following was one of the final conclusions presented in this article:
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "It can be postulated that the complex movement of magnetic flux generates
> a positive EMF, but the cause of the voltage increase is not clear."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------

Feedback welcome.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 17:14:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA04343; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:14:51 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:14:51 -0800
Message-Id: <199702251818.KAA25830 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:14:53 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Virtual Theater, best thing about this one act play is you can m
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199702251651.KAA22460 natashya.eden.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"gA5MS1.0.c21.4mo4p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4512
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> At 07:53 2/25/97 -0700, Russ wrote:
> 
> >This doesn't appear to be a challenge to demonstrate an energy technology as
> >much as a sucker bait offer to buy a licenese to such technology and the right
> >to act as an agent for such technology for a pretty ridiculously low sum.
> 
> and Reed said:
> 
> >No one has to take up our challenge -- we are not forcing anybody.  At
> least we are putting our money where our mouth is.
> 
> Russ, maybe you guys ought to go for the prize!?    Oh...never mind, Reed
> probably wants you to prove the device works BEFORE you get the money.
> 
> Scott

Yeah he would no doubt want to have us subsidize an expensive series of 
experiments in his lab so he could learn all there is to learn before even 
making a decision as to whether he'd negotiate to pay us any money. We've heard 
that one so many times it begins to sound like a broken record. It always goes 
something like this. 

On no not again, how do I unsubscribe from this list.

But wait there may be an alternative!


PRESENTING THE VORTEX VIRTUAL THEATER

Come one come all. You can participate in a virtual world of science and 
technology development.

Instructions: 

1. Read and use your imagination. Enjoy or not. 

2. If ACT  1 isn't enough for you simply select the parts that you like. 
Select and Copy those. Move the cursor to the bottom of the script. Type 
"ACT 2" <enter> Hit paste

3a. Start reading ACT 2

3b. Alternatively you can write ACT 2 yourself.

THE PREMISE: Two Vortexian's engage in friendly(?) but endless drivel 
about the same thing. 

THE VORTEX VIRTUAL THEATER:   FUSION FROIDE ACT 1

The scene: a virtual or not so virtual encounter between two Vortexians.

Inventor(s): Here's what we have done and our hypothesis. We believe this is a 
great discovery and that it provides a wonderful opportunity. You can come 
visit us and we'll spend days preparing and days telling you about our 7-8 
years of work. All we ask is a commitment to move ahead together if you decide 
you believe in what we have done and are doing. Commitments cost money, there 
is professional time, legal fees, lots of different costs involved. We'll have 
to share the burden of those costs. 

Straw man: OK so you've worked for seven or eight years developing expertise 
and experience in calorimetry and performing hundreds of experiments with 
controls and calibration heaters. I won't believe any of it until you do it 
my way because of course your calorimetry is not only incompetent but it is 
different than what I would do. 

Inventor: Well that's a bit hard to take but OK if you want to see it in 
your shop you can. Lets work out the details on how much it will cost to help 
you do so. You understand of course that this is an expensive effort in both 
time and money. We'll have to protect the people who have invested in our work 
of course with binding legal agreements that protect the intellectual property 
and know how. These are very standard agreements that are signed every day here 
in the world of science and technology. We don't want to re-invent everything 
so we'll go with standard industry practice on the business requirements.

Strawman: OK so you've had major scientific laboratories with the finest
reputations for calorimetry as any in the world spend months with your
apparatus in their labs. That doesn't cut it since my calorimetry is better
than theirs and yours.  Just having major sectors of the industrial world
stand behind your work isn't good enough for me because they are big and they
move glacially slow. Three guys in a garage will be able to  move faster. 

Inventor: Fine but we still have to come to some basic level of understanding 
on the costs involved and the necessary legal environment. Can we start on 
that in some professional manner. By the way we have more than simple 
calorimetry as evidence of the nature of the reactions we produce.

Strawman:  OK so you've had four different highly acclaimed labortories search 
for and find the signature of nuclear reactions via products like 3He, 4HE, and 
tritium at orders of magnitude above the background. Since you can't find those 
signatures every time their work and your work is suspect. I won't believe it 
until I can reproduce it on my own. And by the way you have to spend tens of 
thousands of dollars helping me do so without any commitment what-so-ever on 
what I'll do with that knowledge once I have it. Maybe we won't get along in 
which case I simply go it alone and let you sue me if you can. That's the 
right way to do things isn't it. NO of course I won't give you any prior legal 
paper that would help your enforcement of your rights if it went to the courts.

Inventor: So what you are saying is that you won't spend a few thousand dollars 
to pay for the costs of putting some kind of workable agreement in place but 
you still want to work with us. 

Strawman:  OK once I see it in my lab and have had the free education in the 
art I'll be a good guy I won't do anything that is my interest even if it runs 
against your interests. I promise. NO I won't pay to put that in writing. NO NO 
NO just believe me I'm an honest person. I would never take advantage of anyone. 

Inventor: But I thought we had agreed early on that this was not a process that 
could go on without spending money. 

Strawman: Of course we'll spend money at our place. We'll even buy lunch. 
But share in paying the lawyers, the secretaries, the scientists, the 
machinists, the programmers, the businessmen, overhead, NO NO NO I never 
thought we'd actually have to put some hard cash on the table. I thought you 
were going to make all those expenses a gift to us out of gratitude for our 
unencumbered promise to help. Besides we can do all that work better than the 
so called professionals you have had doing this for years just tell us 
everything and well do it for you.

End of ACT 1 to read ACT 2 you'll have to follow the instructions at the start 
of the play. 







From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  2 18:04:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA25173; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 17:50:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 17:50:05 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Arc-Spark Discharge Experiments.
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 01:49:49 +0000
Message-ID: <19970303014947.AAA23085 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"0vfNm2.0.F96.CvY6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4657
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Back about 20 years I decided to test my luck on getting some Hot Fusion
reactions with an aqueous pool of lithium hydroxide and/or Boric acid
in a stainless steel pressure cooker.The power supply was a 15-0-15 kv
neon sign transformer rated at 60 ma. with grounded center-tap. 
Picked it up dirt cheap at a sign shop.

The reactions sought:

1, 1H1* + 3Li-7 = 2 He-4 + 17.34 Mev

2, 1H1* + 5B-10 = 6C-11 + 8.7 Mev with the 6C-11 going to 5B-11 

3, 1H1* + 5B-10 = 2He-4 + 4Be-7 + 1.2 Mev with the 4Be-7 going to 3Li-7

4, 1H1* + 5B-11 = 6C12 + 16.0 Mev

5, 1H1* + 5B-11 = 3  2He-4 + 8.7 Mev

The 1H1* is now considered to be a small hydrogen atom formed with a 
low mass electrical particle either already present in the water 
or that can be made by collisions, photon interaction, 
or friction-molecular agitation, that can be absorbed by the 
target nucleus to effect the reactions.

With no calorimetry or detection means other than noting the rapid
pressure rise of the pressure cooker with the electrical arc-spark input, 
the quest was abandonedafter rather discouraging words by "experts" working 
on CTR at a D.O.E. Lab.

Anyone want to have a go at this now? 

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 00:43:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA11399; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:32:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jay Olson" <olso3562 novell.uidaho.edu>
Organization: University of Idaho
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:32:17 PST8PDT
Subject: ZPE motor?
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a)
Message-ID: <28B00A6856 hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu>
Resent-Message-ID: <"1RtzX1.0.0o2.hoe6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4658
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

     I just had a brainstorming session about ways to extract ZPE 
from the vaccum and came up with the following.  I have no way of 
knowing if it is original and I'm sure it is impracticle as it stands, but someone 
else could possibly refine the idea into something interesting.
     Picture a circular clock with one hand.  From 12:00 to 6:00, the 
frame around the hand is intact, but from 6:00 to 12:00, the frame is 
missing.  Now move the point where the hand pivots down slightly 
(toward 6:00).  Adjust the length of the hand to be equal to the distance to the 
nearest part of the frame, which would be 6:00.  Now put a pivoting 
head on the end of the hand so that the surface of this head can be 
paralell to the frame.  Now assume that you have a Casimir force 
between the head of the hand and the side of the frame.  The Casimir 
force on the head of the hand should be perpendicular to the wall of 
the frame, and since the pivot point is slightly lower than the 
center of the circle, the force will exert some torque on the hand, 
in this case clockwise.  When the hand reaches 6:00, the force stops 
because the frame does too, and the hand coasts up to 12:00 where the 
process begins again.  I realize that the power gained from such a 
generator would be very very small, but the principle gives you a 
constant generation of energy, unlike other methods I have heard of 
involving plates that contain a charge that create current when the 
Casimir force pulls them together.  Anyway, is it food for thought?  
Is it OLD food for though that I have never heard of before?  What do 
you think?

    Jay Olson

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 01:42:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA02516; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 01:30:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 01:30:21 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530502af4034670faa [199.237.131.233]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 00:33:09 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Arc-Spark Discharge Experiments.
Resent-Message-ID: <"sBzYK2.0.Ed.ief6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4659
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Vortexians:
>
>Back about 20 years I decided to test my luck on getting some Hot Fusion
>reactions with an aqueous pool of lithium hydroxide and/or Boric acid

>
>Anyone want to have a go at this now?
>
>Regards,   Frederick

To some small degree been there, done that, last year, exept used Li2SO4.
The boric acid and Li2SO4 are still on the top of my supply cabinets. Used
a 15,000 V (RMS) (over 20 KV pp) transformer. No results. Didn't do
calorimetry though, other than sticking a thermometer in the water
occasionally. Used a prospecting geiger counter. Don't know if it could
pick up those gammas.  I have an old civil defense counter as well, but the
batteries cost a fortune and it was out.  Wasn't thorough, just a quick
check and moved on. Used a thick transparent glass bowl. It was
interresting to watch bubbles form in a field like pattern on the bottom of
the bowl between the electrodes. Also tried big 35 MGO magnets for
electrodes, and tried arc from one electrode to the water.  I do lots of
silly things like that. Every now and then something weird happens and then
I dig a little further.  Didn't/couldn't have detailed chemical analysis
done.

I not really enthused by this specific idea, but do coincidentally have
several  things going on in my lab (er, kitchen) similar in nature. Pretty
busy right now.  Do you have any specific ideas you want checked that might
be checked out fairly quickly? (No pressure cookers please!)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 02:59:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA07685; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 02:36:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 02:36:37 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Photo-Hydro Remediation of Nuclear Wastes.
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:36:00 +0000
Message-ID: <19970303103558.AAA13568 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZhqQN1.0._t1.qcg6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4660
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Seems that one could put the nuclear wastes in water soluble form and
circulate the wastes through quartz tubes being irradiated with light
possibly down to something less than 22.8 nanometers (54.4 ev).

The thought is that the light will create the Me/137^2 pair and the negative
entity will "orbit" a proton in the water creating the (1H1*) small hydrogen
atom that can go into the radionuclide and either add to it or fission it,
thus creating isotopes with very short half-lives.

There might be enough heat from the process to run such a system. If not,
the power required from a nuclear power plant should be miniscule compared
to the plant capacity.

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 03:21:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA09059; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 02:59:29 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 02:59:29 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Arc-Spark Discharge Experiments.
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:58:45 +0000
Message-ID: <19970303105843.AAA19260 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"O-FsP3.0.TD2.Fyg6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4661
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:33 AM 3/3/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>Vortexians:
>>
>>Back about 20 years I decided to test my luck on getting some Hot Fusion
>>reactions with an aqueous pool of lithium hydroxide and/or Boric acid
>
>>
>>Anyone want to have a go at this now?
>>
>>Regards,   Frederick
>
>To some small degree been there, done that, last year, exept used Li2SO4.
>The boric acid and Li2SO4 are still on the top of my supply cabinets. Used
>a 15,000 V (RMS) (over 20 KV pp) transformer. No results. Didn't do
>calorimetry though, other than sticking a thermometer in the water
>occasionally. Used a prospecting geiger counter. Don't know if it could
>pick up those gammas.  I have an old civil defense counter as well, but the
>batteries cost a fortune and it was out.  Wasn't thorough, just a quick
>check and moved on. Used a thick transparent glass bowl. It was
>interresting to watch bubbles form in a field like pattern on the bottom of
>the bowl between the electrodes. Also tried big 35 MGO magnets for
>electrodes, and tried arc from one electrode to the water.  I do lots of
>silly things like that. Every now and then something weird happens and then
>I dig a little further.  Didn't/couldn't have detailed chemical analysis
>done.
>
>I not really enthused by this specific idea, but do coincidentally have
>several  things going on in my lab (er, kitchen) similar in nature. Pretty
>busy right now.  Do you have any specific ideas you want checked that might
>be checked out fairly quickly? (No pressure cookers please!)
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
I used the metal pressure cooker for two reasons: 

1, So that all I needed was a ceramic electrode borrowed from the ignitor
from a boiler about 10" long with a refractory metal "wire" down through the
center.
This was sealed in the removable lid of the pressure cooker so that the
pressure cooker was the cathode. The arc-spark was to the surface of the
highly conductive water-"salt" pool.

2, The pressure generated, even though the water-"salt" pool never even got
hot required the use of a reasonably good pressure vessel. A piece of 8"
mild steel pipe welded up in a similar manner would do just as well,
especially at the price of pressure cookers these days. <g> Getting a good
seal around the ceramic electrode and yet having it adjustable to set the
gap above the pool was a bit tricky. A metal bellows with an adjusting means
would do a great job.

A viewing port also, perhaps?

Regards,       Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 04:18:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA14051; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 03:55:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 03:55:36 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Arc-Spark Discharge Experiments.
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:54:51 +0000
Message-ID: <19970303115449.AAA5693 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"n-qBn2.0.PR3.smh6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4662
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:33 AM 3/3/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>Vortexians:
>>
>>Back about 20 years I decided to test my luck on getting some Hot Fusion
>>reactions with an aqueous pool of lithium hydroxide and/or Boric acid
>
>>
>>Anyone want to have a go at this now?
>>
>>Regards,   Frederick
>
>To some small degree been there, done that, last year, exept used Li2SO4.
>The boric acid and Li2SO4 are still on the top of my supply cabinets. Used
>a 15,000 V (RMS) (over 20 KV pp) transformer. No results. Didn't do
>calorimetry though, other than sticking a thermometer in the water
>occasionally. Used a prospecting geiger counter. Don't know if it could
>pick up those gammas.  I have an old civil defense counter as well, but the
>batteries cost a fortune and it was out.

If you really want to impress your wife, get three of the 15-0-15 kv
grounded center tap transformers and hook them up to three phase on the
primarys. This lets you run six electrode arcs-sparks to the pool grounded
through the chamber at once.

I wouldn't recommend using a fishbowl for this. Although "Fishbowl Reactor"
does have a nice ring to it, doesn't it? <G>

Regards,   Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 05:20:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA23957; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 04:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 04:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:59:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: IF
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970303124307.7855A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"kV9W61.0.Fs5.9ji6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4663
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To the tune of Jerusalem...

If you can keep your head when all about you
  Are lsoing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
  But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired of waiting,
  Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
  And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
  If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
  And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
  Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
  And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
  And risk it on one turn of pitch and toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
  And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
  To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
  Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
  Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
  If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
  With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
  And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling, American Magazine Oct 1910.

Enough poetry, this isn't poem-net (-:
Back to work.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 05:36:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA25978; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 05:27:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 05:27:13 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:27:08 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703031327.HAA06430 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"3sRc2.0.pL6.k6j6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4664
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 12:32 AM 3/3/97 PST8PDT, Jay Olson wrote:

>in this case clockwise.  When the hand reaches 6:00, the force stops 
>because the frame does too,....

The force doesn't just "stop" immediately after 6:00.  You have to pull the
hand away from that very closely spaced part of the frame.

Puthoff & I have considered variations on this geometry and came to the
conclusion that it would take precisely as much energy to pull the hand away
from the end of the frame (i.e. from 6:00 to 7:00) as you gained in going
from 12:00 to 6:00.  

An analogous system that has the same problem is one in which the hand has a
magnet mounted on it and the clock frame is iron.  The same energy gain
occurs when you move from 12 to 6 but in getting from 6 to 7 you loose all
that energy again.

Another way of putting this:  Casimir force interactions with the ZPF are
conservative....at least all the ones I've thought of so far..8-)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 07:36:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA05496; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:19:00 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:19:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: wharton 128.183.251.148
Message-Id: <v03007800af409b6d7436 [128.183.200.195]>
In-Reply-To: <970301210538_100060.173_JHB127-1 CompuServe.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:18:46 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton climate-f.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Resent-Message-ID: <"40HjF1.0.oL1.Xlk6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4665
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


>I'm confused, so any enlightenment as to who is Lewis Nasa and what is
>going on
>at Temple University will be appreciated.
>
Norman,
 NASA's Lewis Center has been known to test some of these claimed OU
devices and it might be worthwhile to check this report out.  You could get
started by checking out their home page at:

http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/LeRC_homepage.html




Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton climate.gsfc.nasa.gov


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 08:26:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA02010; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:45:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:45:48 -0800
From: "Jay Olson" <olso3562 novell.uidaho.edu>
Organization: University of Idaho
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:45:08 PST8PDT
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a)
Message-ID: <2FE747311F hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu>
Resent-Message-ID: <"S7nK-1.0.JV.h8l6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4666
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


> 
> Another way of putting this:  Casimir force interactions with the ZPF are
> conservative....at least all the ones I've thought of so far..8-)

Of course you are right.  That's what I get for trying to think at 
midnight after a six pack of donuts and the X-Files...  :)

     Jay Olson

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 08:43:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA05396; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:03:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:03:00 -0800
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:02:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970303110212_685822939 emout12.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
cc: 100060.173 compuserve.com
Subject: Re:  More Meyer
Resent-Message-ID: <"Nv4An.0.EK1.pOl6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4667
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Norman,

NASA has a unit in Cleveland called the Lewis Research Center.  The telephone
number for the main switchboard is 1-216-433-4000.  I think the postal
address is 21000 Brookpark Road, Cleveland, OH 44135.

As far as I know, there is no individual named Lewis Nasa.

I would be surprised if anyone at NASA/Lewis had ever tested a Meyer water
fuel cell, and absolutely astonished if anyone there had ever certified it as
three times over unity. 

Congratulations on the work that you have done in covering the Stanley Meyer
affair.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 08:55:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA08769; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:40:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:40:09 -0800
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:40:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Todd, Re: Red/blue.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.91.970303104202.29068A-100000 clnt11kgn.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970303161107.7855C-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"mH5Y32.0.v82.cxl6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4668
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

(Message forwarded on to Vo, 'cos I'm vain enough to think people give a
monkey's about what I'm working on :-)   


> Know what you mean about modeling... I'm trying to construct a non-equational
> approach using "process formalisms" from theoretical computer science. Long
> ways to go.
> 
Todd,

I've heard about this discrete formulization of physics by the likes of
Tom Etter(?) from a former lecturer. It all seems to be coming from
Computer Scientists\Electronic Engineers. 

In a nutshell, could you distil the philosophy in an email or cite a few
references please? Don't want to take on too much at this point when I
should be concentrating on becoming 'expert' in thermodynamics. 

The report I'm working on is a practical one to get some results. It and
my papers 1 and 2 (which need combining and refining) will be submitted to
the ed. (Eugene Mallove), John Schrurer, Norman Horwood (who both
contacted me earlier this year), research schools and journals. I don't
mind posting them off to you when ready. 

My paper series runs like this:-

Paper 1: A Thermodynamic Cycle Based On First Order Phase Changes
Paper 2: Ditto, with a different insight
Paper 3: Meant to be my thoughts on what an extended 2nd law would look like
          very back burner, very back of envelope at moment. Almost
          embarrases me to even suggest it... Temerity, impudence...
Paper 4: Practical report on how to devise schemes in p's 1 and 2
Paper 5: Apparent u-u or o-u in red/blue shift: A non local formulation 
          of the 1st Law. (Temerity, impudence etc..)
          back burner, I've got to learn some more physics!
(Papers 6-n: Real bloody results! Hopefully)

So in short papers 1,2 and 4 (v. shortly) exist. The rest could take 
months and may end up collaborative. I really must work on what I know at 
present though and get results.
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~

Wishing you every sucess,
Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 09:42:35 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA17812; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:27:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:27:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530504af40b83dc122 [199.237.131.222]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:30:03 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Arc-Spark Discharge Experiments.
Resent-Message-ID: <"svH58.0.EM4.edm6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4670
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 2:54 AM 3/3/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>
>If you really want to impress your wife, get three of the 15-0-15 kv
>grounded center tap transformers and hook them up to three phase on the
>primarys. This lets you run six electrode arcs-sparks to the pool grounded
>through the chamber at once.
>
>I wouldn't recommend using a fishbowl for this. Although "Fishbowl Reactor"
>does have a nice ring to it, doesn't it? <G>
>
>Regards,   Frederick


Funny thing is all (most of) the heat tranferred to the water seems to be
at any electrodes actually in the water. Running sparks to the surface
seems to use most of the energy in generating steam.  The water remains
surprisingly cool even after a run of about 30 minutes.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 09:53:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA17796; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:27:03 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:27:03 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530502af40b40cc4de [199.237.131.222]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:29:58 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Arc-Spark Discharge Experiments.
Resent-Message-ID: <"NZOWI.0.zL4.adm6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4669
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 1:58 AM 3/3/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>I used the metal pressure cooker for two reasons:
>
>1, So that all I needed was a ceramic electrode borrowed from the ignitor
>from a boiler about 10" long with a refractory metal "wire" down through the
>center.
>This was sealed in the removable lid of the pressure cooker so that the
>pressure cooker was the cathode. The arc-spark was to the surface of the
>highly conductive water-"salt" pool.
>
>2, The pressure generated, even though the water-"salt" pool never even got
>hot required the use of a reasonably good pressure vessel. A piece of 8"
>mild steel pipe welded up in a similar manner would do just as well,
>especially at the price of pressure cookers these days. <g> Getting a good
>seal around the ceramic electrode and yet having it adjustable to set the
>gap above the pool was a bit tricky. A metal bellows with an adjusting means
>would do a great job.
>
>A viewing port also, perhaps?
>
>Regards,       Frederick

I used a plexaglass cover over the bowl to condense the steam.  I could
have used an ice pack. To catch it all a reflux distiller could be used, or
even a condenser in order to measure the steam production. If the container
were well insulated the amount of water turned to steam could be used for
calorimetry.

I used a glass bowl (and larger containment vessel in case the bowl broke
or cracked) because I was looking for a blue glow.  Didn't see any. I just
don't like high pressure confinement (especially mixed with H2 and O2
generation) without good cause. I may have a blockhead but have no
blockhouse. 8^).

BTW, John Logajohn posted an interresting one. Bore and thread a hole in a
capped pipe for a spark plug. Do similarly for high pressure guage. Insert
water (no air) and start electrolysis inside the pipe by running current
between the spark plug tip and the pipe. Get into your blockhouse.  8^)

Apparently electrolysis works fine and at a constant rate regardless of
pressure. Seems non-conservative to me.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 11:09:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA00651; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:40:36 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:40:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Arc-Spark Discharge Experiments.
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:39:56 +0000
Message-ID: <19970303183954.AAA1135 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"YphYc3.0.5A.Xin6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4671
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:30 PM 3/3/97 +0000, Horace Heffener wrote
>
>Funny thing is all (most of) the heat tranferred to the water seems to be
>at any electrodes actually in the water. Running sparks to the surface
>seems to use most of the energy in generating steam.  The water remains
>surprisingly cool even after a run of about 30 minutes.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
There are commercial electric boilers in the hundreds of kilowatt range that
have the bare electrodes immersed in the water. Polyhase of course. But I'm
not aware of any over-unity in these. At $0.10/kw-hr it would be nice if
there was. <g>

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 11:25:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA02348; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:56:53 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:56:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Arc-Spark Discharges
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:56:05 +0000
Message-ID: <19970303185604.AAA8218 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"KwBDE3.0.ca.oxn6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4673
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace:

Speaking of arc discharges in water.In the mid 50's I was trying my luck at
hard anodizing of aluminum at a faster rate. I came up with using "Molybdic
Acid" in water in a kettle tied to ground on a 0-600 volt   one amp D.C.
power supply.

You could take an aluminum rod tied to the plus side and wearing a rubber
glove for safety, immerse it slowly into the bath, and walla, an instant
insulating hard anodize surface on the aluminum rod.

It took nearly 10 kilovolts to get an electrical breakdown through it with a
needle sharp electrode. Very spectacular arcing as you lower the rod into
the bath. Never got around to see if it was patentable or o-u.That was about
the time that a hydrogen bomb fell through the bottom of a B-36 and folks
got busy on weapon safety. <g>

Regards,     Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 11:50:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA27728; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:54:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:54:49 -0800
Date: 03 Mar 97 13:50:26 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Molten Metals Technology, Inc.
Message-ID: <970303185025_72240.1256_EHB45-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"ydJEV1.0.9n6.tvn6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4672
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

This has nothing to do with over-unity energy, but it is an interesting,
innovative new technology for waste treatment and recycling. It is an
energy-intensive technique, which is the sort of thing I predict will thrive
when cold fusion is commercialized and energy costs drop. They call the
technology "Elemental Recycling (TM)" or "Catalytic Extraction Processing
(CEP)." (They say it is "A New Paradigm" -- but what isn't, these days?) To
make a long story short, they take dangerous garbage, "solids, sludges,
liquids and gases" ceramics & you-name-it, and drop it into a tightly closed
chamber containing a bath of molten steel. Don't try this at home folks. The
"catalytic and solvent properties" of the molten metal reduce compounds to
elements, which are carefully removed from the chamber. Poisonous compounds
are destroyed, the only danger is from elements like arsenic. Their
technique for treating rad-waste will compete with CETI's.

The company has a good home page: www.mmt.com. It shows some photos of a test
gadget in their 86,000 square-foot R&D facility.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 12:21:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA32182; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:20:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:20:44 -0800
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 19:21:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Technology, Inc.
In-Reply-To: <970303185025_72240.1256_EHB45-1 CompuServe.COM>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970303191911.7855D-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"CL-kw3.0.is7.BIo6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4674
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Saw it in Terminator 2 when Arnie dropped himself in a molten bath to 
avoid disclosure of his technology, and the bad guy shape shifter, well, 
shifted his last.

(Sorry for being purile)
Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 13:09:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA15551; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:43:57 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:43:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Technology, Inc.
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 20:34:30 +0000
Message-ID: <19970303203428.AAA25706 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Jp5J8.0.vo3.BWp6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4675
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:21 PM 3/3/97 +0000, Remi wrote:
>Saw it in Terminator 2 when Arnie dropped himself in a molten bath to 
>avoid disclosure of his technology, and the bad guy shape shifter, well, 
>shifted his last.
>
>(Sorry for being purile)
>Remi.
>
Are you sure it wasn't "quicklime" CaO? Ordinary hydrated lime, Ca(OH)2 will
clean up most any hazardous chemical at much lower temperatures. It loves
the chlorine and fluorine compounds ie., chloro-fluorocarbons.The water in
it reacts with the carbonaceous materials and makes a synthesis gas, H2 + CO
that can be used to run the setup (no can do with molten iron) and provide
synthesis gas to make methanol or syngas CH4. Did a great job in the
outhouse back in those days too. Add a little heat and you have syngas to
boot. <g>

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 13:11:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA16964; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:53:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:53:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <331B3A4D.41FD interlaced.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 15:53:33 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Arc-Spark Discharges
References: <19970303185604.AAA8218 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"0EweL1.0.x84.pep6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4676
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
(snip)
> It took nearly 10 kilovolts to get an electrical breakdown through it with a
> needle sharp electrode. 

Hey Frederick, forget OU - did you ever check out the capacitor
applications of these films?  If you could make me an electrolytic
capacitor of, say, 10,000 DC working volts, about 5000 MFD, I would
be really grateful!

Frank Stenger        (250,000 joules, ---- WOW!)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 15:24:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA00998; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:01:02 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:01:02 -0800 (PST)
Date: 03 Mar 97 17:58:13 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re:  More Meyer
Message-ID: <970303225813_100060.173_JHB77-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"PTMK8.0.PF.gWr6p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4678
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Tom,

>> I would be surprised if anyone at NASA/Lewis had ever tested a Meyer water
fuel cell, and absolutely astonished if anyone there had ever certified it as
three times over unity.

Congratulations on the work that you have done in covering the Stanley Meyer
affair.

Tom Stolper <<

I've faxed the head honcho at Lewis with a request that they confirm or deny
that they have tested a Meyer cell.  See what transpires.   Fun innit!

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar  3 15:42:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03764; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:00:34 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:00:34 -0800
Date: 03 Mar 97 17:58:11 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More Meyer
Message-ID: <970303225811_100060.173_JHB77-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"KEJDH.0.kw.HWr6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4677
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Lawrence,

>> NASA's Lewis Center has been known to test some of these claimed OU
devices and it might be worthwhile to check this report out. <<

Thanks - will do.  Thought there was no such person as Lewis Nasa, but it just
might have been an Egyptian!

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 01:37:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA10132; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 01:28:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 01:28:10 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Noise
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:27:42 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <331cf8cf.41221391 mail.netspace.net.au>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"OsMJF1.0.DU2.ei-6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4679
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Some months back someone on this forum (I think) explained how addition of
a small amount of noise to a signal could make it more accurate in the long
run. Tapping a barometer was used as an example. 
It just occurred to me that this is probably because the noise signal
provides the excess energy required to overcome some barrier in the
detecting device, so that a signal which would otherwise be below the
sensitivity threshold of the detector is detected anyway.
The energy provided by the noise is apparently reabsorbed as noise after
the event is triggered.
Now in some cases it is claimed by ZPE adherents, that the ZPE provides the
"noise", required to trigger an event. In such cases energy is "borrowed"
from the ZPE temporarily, then returned after the event is triggered.

Suppose that the ZPE is in fact comprised of standing waves. Such standing
waves can be thought of as two travelling waves, an outgoing wave, and an
incoming (or time reversed) wave.
Suppose further that the "borrowing" of energy from the vacuum is in fact
the splitting of this wave pair, such that the outgoing wave is absorbed,
leaving the incoming wave alone. This can also be seen as the conversion of
a standing wave into a travelling wave. After the "detection" event (which
invariably results in an energy release), the travelling wave recombines
with a portion of the released energy, and is restored to the status of
standing wave. Just like half of a DNA molecule during cell division, is
automatically selects a matching photon of exactly the same frequency.

Now to really stretch your credulity, lets further suppose that all this is
happening in a sea of random travelling waves, i.e. a measurably "hot"
environment. In such cases, it seems possible that the time reversed
travelling wave might occasionally match up with a random travelling wave
from the environment (and become a standing wave again) before the
triggered event completes, thus ensuring that the energy release from the
triggered event is greater (by the borrowed amount) than one would
otherwise expect.

The net result of such a process would appear to be a negative entropic
effect. I.e. random heat absorbed from the environment becomes indirectly
available as excess energy from a specific process.
This overall negentropic effect would however seem to be rather unlikely,
unless certain very specific conditions were met. Hence it is not
unreasonable that it would only on very rare occasions be observed, and
even then probably written off as one of "Murphy's" stuff-ups in the
experiment.

If correct however, it would appear to provide a mechanism whereby useful
energy might be extracted from the environment.

If anyone recognises their work being plagiarised in the above, please pipe
up. I read much, and have much "floating around" in the recesses of my
mind, some of which occasionally surfaces, giving me the impression that I
have "discovered" something. <g>

PS I have already cut a slice off this with Occam's razor, so feel free!
Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 03:07:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA15433; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 02:57:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 02:57:04 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Noise
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:56:25 +0000
Message-ID: <19970304105623.AAA22074 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"rlceS3.0.3n3.-__6p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4680
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robin:

Your thesis supports a vague notion of a "mousetrap effect" that I have
noticed with the coincidence of a sneeze or cough, and the refrigerator or
furnace kicking on. Seems that the lower sound frequencies are more likely
to jog the electromechanical devices into tripping.

The kick or hammer blow that people give a stubborn contrivance (even the
astronauts to sophisticated equipment) seems to bear this out.

However, I have never seen these effcts cause a switch to shut off a
decvice. <G>

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 03:53:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA01684; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 03:43:28 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 03:43:28 -0800 (PST)
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 06:42:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970304064247_1482312803 emout10.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: YEAR 2000
Resent-Message-ID: <"psD8H3.0.EQ.Uh07p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4681
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Gentlemen, this is a heads-up alert for you to consider the impact on you,
personally, of the possibility that major financial data processing systems
will start to crash in the year 2000. The crux of the problem is that lots of
data processing software uses two digit date codes which will not be properly
interpreted when the date is 00. 

Credit card transactions and probably much of banking clearing house
transactions run on fault-tolerant computers made by Tandem. I have no
information as to whether or not these computers and software process dates
with two or four-digit years. 

For an education on this topic, visit http://www.year2000.com

Consider what will happen if Social Security, Medicare, the US Postal
Service, and, say General Motors are unable to issue checks in January 2000. 

It's not time to panic (hopefully), but to think. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 05:06:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA25010; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 04:57:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 04:57:00 -0800
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:56:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Ca(OH)2
In-Reply-To: <19970303203428.AAA25706 LOCALNAME>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970304124559.8118A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"IPOeA3.0.e66.Qm17p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4682
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick,

> Are you sure it wasn't "quicklime" CaO? Ordinary hydrated lime, Ca(OH)2
> will clean up most any hazardous chemical at much lower temperatures. It
> loves the chlorine and fluorine compounds ie., chloro-fluorocarbons.The
> water in it reacts with the carbonaceous materials and makes a synthesis
> gas, H2 + CO that can be used to run the setup (no can do with molten
> iron) and provide synthesis gas to make methanol or syngas CH4. Did a
> great job in the outhouse back in those days too. Add a little heat and
> you have syngas to boot. 
<g> 
> > Regards, Frederick >

I wasn't aware that Ca(OH)2 could react with aliphatic
chlorine/flourinated compounds. I thought slaked lime only existed in
solution at low temperatures. By the nature of strong C-C, C-Cl and C-F
bonds, substituted aliphatic compounds tend to be very unreactive - hence
Teflon in our frying pans. But, I could be wrong, the bonds are polarized 
and liable to electrophilic substitution no?

I assume your objective is to convert these Cl, F compounds into 
non-volatile inorganic compounds that stay put and don't wander up to the 
ozone layer? Here's a crazy suggestion, what about genetically 
engineering bacteria to have a C-Cl,F bond cleaver digestor?

Could that be possible?

Wishing you well,
Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 05:14:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA07273; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:04:24 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:04:24 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:04:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: YEAR 2000
In-Reply-To: <970304064247_1482312803 emout10.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970304130024.8118B-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"Dyhh8.0.Wn1.It17p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4683
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vo,

Sorry but this really pisses me off - but who gives a monkey's about one 
year anyway:-

1st Century: 001-100 A.D.
2nd "      : 101-200 A.D.
,
19th "     : 1801-1900 A.D.
20th "     : 1901-2000 A.D.
21th "     : 2001-2100 A.D. and 2001 is start of new millenia

The more informed of us shall be having two parties I guess.
Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 05:16:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA25898; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:06:56 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:06:56 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Transmutation of Potassium in Sea Water?
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:20:50 +0000
Message-ID: <19970304122048.AAA28681 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"lb7-k2.0.XK6.lv17p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4684
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

The total volume of the world's oceans is 1.37E21 liters. The sodium content
is given as 10.5 grams/liter,while the potassium which is just as soluble as
sodium and as abundant in the earth's crust runs only 0.38 grams/liter.

Assuming that a reaction 1H1* + 19K39 = 20Ca40 has been occurring for 5E9
years, then the 10.5 grams - 0.38 grams = 10.12 grams of missing potassium
is being diminished at a rate of 10.12/5E9 = 2.0E-9 grams/liter-year or
about 3.13E13 potassium atoms/liter-year  or 1.0E6 atoms/liter-second are
being transmuted to calcium in the world's oceans? 

Given the stories of "spontaneous human combustion" one needs to keep an eye
on their potassium level.   <g>

Regards,  Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 05:26:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA08404; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:17:35 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:17:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970304131635.0068f5c8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 08:16:35 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Noise
Resent-Message-ID: <"3KwrG1.0.E32.i327p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4685
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:27 AM 3/4/97 GMT, Robin wrote:
>Some months back someone on this forum (I think) explained how addition of
>a small amount of noise to a signal could make it more accurate in the long
>run. Tapping a barometer was used as an example. 
>It just occurred to me that this is probably because the noise signal
>provides the excess energy required to overcome some barrier in the
>detecting device, so that a signal which would otherwise be below the
>sensitivity threshold of the detector is detected anyway.
>The energy provided by the noise is apparently reabsorbed as noise after
>the event is triggered.
>Now in some cases it is claimed by ZPE adherents, that the ZPE provides the
>"noise", required to trigger an event. In such cases energy is "borrowed"
>from the ZPE temporarily, then returned after the event is triggered.
>



  Methinks this may be one more example of fantasy rather than science.

  Neither massive-energy ZPE nor this effect is frankly believable based
upon looking at the real numbers, even for someone with an open mind.

  
  First, fixing a broken sensor has nothing to do with noise in a signal, even
though it is a cute anecdote.



  Second, noise is the enemy of good data, and should be measured in each
experiment.  Furthermore, in OU devices, as I have shown elsewhere,
driving a purported o/u system with energies on the order of, or less
than, the energy in the noise, can give erroneous "over unity" results, if
the results do not include a measurement of the noise.  
Such artifact may make the appearance of "excess heat", but it is probably
not, and if it is, it is clouded in the noise itself.

  To measure and define noise is one good thing. 

   Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.  
Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
published paper.

   Thanks.

    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 05:37:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA09139; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:27:15 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:27:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:26:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970304082630_1582934432 emout18.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
cc: kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp
Subject: Re:  Notoya & NHE Lab
Resent-Message-ID: <"C_Qqw3.0.jE2.mC27p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4687
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Elliot,

Thank you for your reply.

You asked about my interest in Reiko Notoya's work.

1)  I drove to Cambridge, Mass., to hear her speak at MIT in late 1992.  She
gave a brief informal talk on December 3, 1992, and a longer formal
presentation on December 4, 1992, both worth the drive to hear.

2)  Notoya was working with a Mills-type cell, which in my opinion was the
best way to go.

3)  That's still my opinion.  

Is it still hers?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 05:38:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA09123; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:27:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:26:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970304082626_1383314848 emout17.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
cc: 76570.2270 compuserve.com
Subject: Re:  Info on BlackLight?
Resent-Message-ID: <"WJxH42.0.FE2.jC27p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4686
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Gene,

You know more about recent developments regarding Mills and company than I
do.  I didn't know that he had changed the name of his company to BlackLight
Power.  I'm sorry to say that I haven't had any contact with Mills or Farrell
for almost a year.  

You mentioned that Mills doesn't want to be identified with CF.  Mills was
strongly of the opinion that the source of the energy observed in CF cells
wasn't fusion, wasn't nuclear, and wasn't the zero-point field, and he didn't
want to be identified with ideas that he thought were dead ends.  I doubt
that he has changed his mind.

As you know, Mills proposes that the energy comes from a surface chemical
reaction in which single-atom hydrogen in the standard ground state is
catalyzed to previously undiscovered lower energy states, which he calls
hydrinos.  He has published a lot of experimental and observational evidence
supporting the existence of hydrinos.  I think he's right, but I'm well aware
that this is a minority opinion.

Another minority opinion:  the hydrino concept can be examined and tested
entirely apart from Mills' theoretical justification for it, as Mills himself
has said.  Mills' hydrino proposal is short and sweet, but his Theory of
Everything is much bigger and even more controversial.

Judging by the abstract of the ICCF6 paper by Dufour, Foos & Millot, they are
also of the opinion that the source of the energy is a drop to lower energy
states of hydrogen; but since I haven't read the full paper yet, I can't
comment on how their concept agrees with or differs from that of Mills.

If Farrell is right that BlackLight Power has a big announcement to make in
three to six months, then it wouldn't have to be a commercial product to be
big news.  A reliable demonstration cell would do.  After eight years, CF
still doesn't have one.  As for a commercial product, we have all
underestimated how long and winding the road to a commercial product is.

Congratulations on your continued publication of Infinite Energy.  I don't
see how you do it.  You must have almost infinite energy yourself.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 06:12:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA29623; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:48:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 05:48:17 -0800
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:48:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise
In-Reply-To: <331cf8cf.41221391 mail.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970304133203.8172A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"tOasZ.0.gE7.VW27p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4688
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dear Robin,

I'm not with you about ZPE stuff, I may look at it later if I have time
(one thing I can't understand about all this ZPE, is that if energy can 
be borrowed, why doesn't everything fall apart - my view is that the 
short time you can borrow the energy for, you could never accelerate 
bonded species fast enough to move out of their potential well - I once 
did a calculation to that effect a few years ago.)

Yes, the effect of noise on 'biasing' threshold type devices is well known.

Why it is better than d.c. I guess is that if you get the d.c.  bias
point wrong you get a greater error than if you set a noise bias wrong, a 
calculation along the lines of

Average(Prob(resultant)) = Average(Prob( (signal) x bias) | threshold)
Average(Prob(resultant)) = Average(Prob( (signal) x Prob(Gaussian)) | thrd) 

would probably show the latter more faithful.

I'm sure any modern book on signal processing, control systems would have
a few lines to say. 

Getting a little wishy washy, not being up on current research in this 
area, I know of people using noise to: help train neural nets, mask the 
distressing affects of tinitus (ringing in ears) and may be its why 'fast 
muscles' twitch.

Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 06:52:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA14676; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 06:38:41 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 06:38:41 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:38:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703041438.JAA21517 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <199703031327.HAA06430 natashya.eden.com> (message from Scott Little on Mon, 3 Mar 1997 07:27:08 -0600 (CST))
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"EwCU5.0.Eb3.kF37p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4689
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   Scott Little (little eden.com) said:

  > Another way of putting this:  Casimir force interactions with the ZPF are
  > conservative....at least all the ones I've thought of so far..8-)

   There is a variation on this proposal that AFIAK will produce net
energy.  The problem is that the watts/pound or watts/$ is going to be
really low.  Imagine two half disks--not the way to build it, but the
way to think about it--of metal.  Start with them aligned.  Extract
Casmir force energy from moving them closer together.  (Due to the
nature of the Casmir force, all of the interesting energy is going to
come in the last millimeter or less of motion, so you need to extract
the energy from microns of motion.  Probably use piezoelectric
crystals, but again a detail.)  Now rotate one of the half disks 10
degrees. Move disks apart, repeat.

   There is energy gain from the Casmir effect.  Are there loses?
Yes.  When the plates are precisely aligned and you start to rotate
them, there is an edge effect.  But:

   1) The edge effect only occurs as the disks move into and out of
precise alignment.

   2) The edge effect is conservative IF the distance between the
plates is the same as the plates move into and out of alignment.

   3) Since in any "practical" device, the plates will be constantly
rotating, so condition above will approximately hold, and the edge
effects will only matter if you push the design to far.

   Okay, now lets make this realistic.  Create two disks, etch say six
sectors to a depth of 0.5 mm, fill with non-conductor and polish flat,
very flat.  Mount one plate to a piezoelectric crystal or six, mount
the other on a rotating shaft, perhaps with a magnetic bearing.  You
will want the mass of the rotating part as large as possible relative
to the mass attached to the PZ crystal.  Spin it up in a vaccuum.  If
you are a purist, use some of the energy generated to replace
second order losses.

    The catch?  I could probably build one of these that works, and
that would recover the original spin-up energy in a decade or three.
But the efficiency would probably be measured in microwatts/pound.
Science museums would probably be the only market.  The energy
generated, of course, goes up as the fourth power of the closest
approach distance of the disks, but when you get too close, the
electromagetic drag from the irregularities in the surface will get
significant.  (Now if you have something less bumpy than atoms to
build that surface out of, let me know.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 08:17:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA11393; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:00:18 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:00:18 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530500af41f2f91eb1 [199.237.131.237]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:03:18 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Transmutation of Potassium in Sea Water?
Resent-Message-ID: <"NPJaZ2.0.wn2.GS47p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4690
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 3:20 AM 3/4/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>The total volume of the world's oceans is 1.37E21 liters. The sodium content
>is given as 10.5 grams/liter,while the potassium which is just as soluble as
>sodium and as abundant in the earth's crust runs only 0.38 grams/liter.
>
>Assuming that a reaction 1H1* + 19K39 = 20Ca40 has been occurring for 5E9
>years, then the 10.5 grams - 0.38 grams = 10.12 grams of missing potassium
>is being diminished at a rate of 10.12/5E9 = 2.0E-9 grams/liter-year or
>about 3.13E13 potassium atoms/liter-year  or 1.0E6 atoms/liter-second are
>being transmuted to calcium in the world's oceans?
>
>Given the stories of "spontaneous human combustion" one needs to keep an eye
>on their potassium level.   <g>
>
>Regards,  Frederick


You know, that may be a joke close to the truth. I don't have the
particulars because I heard this riding in my car. One well documented case
of SHC occured to a person (physician I think) who consumed almost nothing
but black coffee and shredded wheat (and I hope vitamin suppliments).  I am
not sure but I think he had skim milk with the shredded weat.

It seems like this would produce an excess calcium condition. Anyone have
any idea about the Na/Ca chmistry that might be involved with coffee,
shredded wheat and milk?  I wonder if it works like sugar where a big dose
of Ca could be followed by a trough of Ca deficiency? Or maybe continuous
high levels of Ca intake results in a higly vigorous Ca removal capability,
which in unususal periods of fasting can drive the Ca/Na ratio down to
abnormal levels.

If this were a problem, though, it would seem like you could get
spontaneous combstion, or at least heat, from salt solution with a small
amount of baking soda added.  What's the missing ingredient?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 08:31:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA14027; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:20:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:20:40 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:19:56 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970304111955_-836793160 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise (Can improve S/N Ratio)
Resent-Message-ID: <"uY8ob3.0.xQ3.Ml47p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4691
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mitchell Swartz asks:

<<Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.  
Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
published paper.>>

This is a well-developed field known as "stochastic resonance." There are a
number of papers in the literature as to how adding noise to certain kinds of
signals can actually improve signal-to-noise ratio.  For starters I recommend
F. Moss and K. Wiesenfeld, "The benefits of background noise," Sci. Am., p.
66, Aug 1995 and references therein.  Its subtitle reads:

"Stochastic resonance, the phenomenon by which background noise boosts weak
signals, is creating a buzz in physics, biology and engineering."

I also have many technical references if you need more.  See, e.g., Phys Rev
Lett., vol. 77, p. 4098 (1996); Nature, vol. 365, p. 337 (1993).

Hal Puthoff

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 08:35:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA14867; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:24:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:24:44 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530502af41f8cf7de4 [199.237.131.238]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:27:37 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Noise
Resent-Message-ID: <"nxCJa.0.9e3.Ap47p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4692
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 8:16 AM 3/4/97, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
[snip]
>   Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.
>Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
>published paper.
>
>   Thanks.
>
>    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

Consider the following thought experiment. You have a zero hysteresis
trigger set at trigger level of one volt. You have a meter that can measure
the percent of time the trigger is on, ie. the input is above one volt.
You need to measure a waveform that is much slower than the trigger speed,
say 100 Hz., and varies from 0 to almost 1 V. You are able to superimpose a
1 V 1 MHz sign wave on the signal to be measured.

Now, without the superimposed 1 MHz signal your trigger will produce no
information because the input signal is always below one volt. However,
with the 1 MHz "noise" you will immediately know the signal to be measured
is above 1 volt and approximately how far.  When the signal to be measured
is just below 1 V your percentage triggered meter will show almost exactly
50 percent.

Correlating the percentage triggered with the input signal requires knowing
somthing about the noise characteristics. This characterizaion can be
determined by calibrating using a known input signal - a process which
normally occurs anyway, without consideration of these issues.

This takes the situation to extremes, demonstrating a situation where you
go from no information to very precise information by the superposition of
noise.  The amount of information you can glean is a function of how well
you can characterize the noise.  The above situation is similar to
conditions in A/D at every step function.  Repeated sampling and averaging
works similar to the above and improves the last digit, especially if there
is an appropriate amount of noise added to or in the signal.


Correlating the percentage triggered with the input signal requires knowing
somthing about the noise characteristics. This can be determined by
calibrating using a known input signal.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 09:03:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA19589; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:52:19 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:52:19 -0800
Date: 04 Mar 97 11:49:01 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Noise, GPS, HTSC
Message-ID: <970304164900_72240.1256_EHB91-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"FwdNV1.0.vn4.0D57p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4694
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Robin writes:

     Some months back someone on this forum (I think) explained how addition
     of a small amount of noise to a signal could make it more accurate in
     the long run.

I don't remember if I mentioned this back then, but the Global Positioning
Satellite (GPS) signals use this technique. They introduce "fake" noise from a
random number generator. Not only does it improve accuracy, it helps impede
real noise and enemy signal jamming. I don't understand the mathematics of the
technique. I read about it in a manual for a GPS receiver. In a somewhat
related development, the New York Times yesterday discussed test transmissions
of high definition television (HDTV) now underway in a few cities. The signal
contains much more information and decoding it is much more complicated than a
regular NTSC broadcast, yet experts were surprised to find that it carries
much better, much farther than a regular broadcast. They are getting good
reception 60 miles away from the tower with much less power than they used to
use. HDTV displays have no snow, flickering or other artifacts. I suppose the
error correction and other signal processing that eliminates the artifacts
also "strengthens" the signal, making it viable at a great distance. The
article says there is a 1-second delay between the image is captured and when
it is broadcast. This confuses the studio people who are used to watching
monitors and making hand signals to direct the broadcast. Perhaps the 1-second
delay reflects the complexity of the signal generation technique.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 09:16:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA18946; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:48:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:48:37 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530504af42003a3be5 [199.237.131.238]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:51:28 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"yhvVw2.0.wd4.a957p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4693
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:38 AM 3/4/97, Robert I. Eachus wrote:
[snip]
>(Now if you have something less bumpy than atoms to
>build that surface out of, let me know.)
>
>
>                                        Robert I. Eachus


If your casimir plates are microscopic and subject to brownian motion then
a percentage of them floating in space will tend to (1) collide and align
so they automatically snap together due to Casimir force, and these
eventually will (2) later collide with something in a way that produces a
sliding motion, and thus come apart. The  bonded/not bonded equilibrium
point would be dependent on the geometry of the pieces.

Another thought is that maybe a single atom in a cavity is a "smoother"
condition than a surface condition. Consider H in Ni or D in Pd. Maybe
there is to some degree Casimir bonding of the H to the surface of the
tetrahedral walls, and when triangular holes open the H can "slide" into
the next cell and snap into place via the Casimir force, transferring
vacuum energy into lattice vibrations.  If this is a cause for heat then
triode cells are all that is needed - load the metal and drive the H back
and forth laterally in the cathode.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 09:22:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA22143; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:10:51 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:10:51 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Ca(OH)2
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:48:31 +0000
Message-ID: <19970304134829.AAA13274 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"UD-yb3.0.vP5.PU57p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4695
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:56 PM 3/4/97 +0000, Remi wrote:
>Frederick,
>
>I assume your objective is to convert these Cl, F compounds into 
>non-volatile inorganic compounds that stay put and don't wander up to the 
>ozone layer? Here's a crazy suggestion, what about genetically 
>engineering bacteria to have a C-Cl,F bond cleaver digestor?
>
>Could that be possible?

The idea is to heat the Ca(OH)2 to say 500 C in a rotary kiln which starts
to drive off the H2O which then can react; 2 H2O + C2-Cl2-F2-H2 for
instance, forming 2 CO + 2 HF + 2 HCL + H2. The halogens then react with 2
CaO forming
CaF2 + CaCl2 + 2 H2O.  The H2O can react with the two CO molecules through
the shift reaction; 2 H2O + 2 CO = 2 CO2 + 2 H2.

This should keep them out of the ozone layer.

What are you going to use to store those bacteria in?   <G>

Regards,       Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 10:53:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07412; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:30:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:30:41 -0800
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:30:19 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703041830.MAA03372 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"j2KK9.0.fp1.Ff67p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4696
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:38 3/4/97 -0500, Robert E. wrote:

>Start with them aligned.  Extract
>Casmir force energy from moving them closer together.

>Now rotate one of the half disks 10
>degrees. Move disks apart, repeat.

Robert, I believe that all 3-D macroscopic arrangements of matter have a
conservative interaction with the ZPF, including your proposed arrangement.
Thus, I predict that you will have to do work to rotate the discs w.r.t each
other, precisely the amount of work that you then save when the rotated
discs are pulled apart, making the round trip have a perfect energy balance.

It's easy to see why you would have to do work to rotate the discs
apart....imagine them to be capacitor plates attracted by electrostatic
forces...you have to do work to rotate them apart because you are lowering
the C.  Q is conserved so V must climb linearly as C drops.  E, however, is
1/2CV^2 and thus increases as you rotate the plates apart...i.e. you have to
do work in order to rotate them apart.  True it's not the same forces or
force vs distance relationships with the Casimir force but similar energy
relationships surely hold...no?


Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 11:45:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA23587; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:34:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:34:10 -0800
Message-ID: <331C5C3B.E6C worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 07:30:37 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise, GPS, HTSC
References: <970304164900_72240.1256_EHB91-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Fhynv.0.Om5.ma77p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4698
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed wrote:

   >  I don't remember if I mentioned this back then, but
   >  the Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) signals use
   >  this technique. They introduce "fake" noise from a
   >  random number generator. Not only does it
   >  improve accuracy, it helps impede real noise and
   >  enemy signal jamming.

That's a little close to the fact that random signals are added to
*reduce* accuracy for civilian use to prevent the enemy from accessing
highly accurate position data. Are you sure you have that right?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 11:47:35 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA20987; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:22:16 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:22:16 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transmutation of Potassium in Sea Water?
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:04:17 +0000
Message-ID: <19970304170415.AAA25894 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"C9PAB1.0.c75.YP77p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4697
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 04:03 PM 3/4/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>You know, that may be a joke close to the truth. I don't have the
>particulars because I heard this riding in my car. One well documented case
>of SHC occured to a person (physician I think) who consumed almost nothing
>but black coffee and shredded wheat (and I hope vitamin suppliments).  I am
>not sure but I think he had skim milk with the shredded weat.
>
>It seems like this would produce an excess calcium condition. Anyone have
>any idea about the Na/Ca chmistry that might be involved with coffee,
>shredded wheat and milk?  I wonder if it works like sugar where a big dose
>of Ca could be followed by a trough of Ca deficiency? Or maybe continuous
>high levels of Ca intake results in a higly vigorous Ca removal capability,
>which in unususal periods of fasting can drive the Ca/Na ratio down to
>abnormal levels.
>
>If this were a problem, though, it would seem like you could get
>spontaneous combustion, or at least heat, from salt solution with a small
>amount of baking soda added.  What's the missing ingredient?

Light Electrons...Calorons, perhaps?  Given a mere chance situation where
they could catalyze the 8 Mev reaction 1H1* + 19K39 = 20Ca40, where the
total energy released/1.0E6 reactions/second is about 1.6 microwatts.

That energy localized then spread along with the Caloron catalyst might be a
bit serious. Do you see the connection to the Cheshire Cat CF effects and
the "negative and positive ion days" effects on how people feel?

There may even be more concern on depletion of the ozone layer than thought.)-:

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 13:14:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA08738; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:46:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:46:42 -0800
Date: 04 Mar 97 15:45:20 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Noise, GPS, HTSC
Message-ID: <970304204520_72240.1256_EHB147-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"I6RWg1.0.Q82.le87p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4699
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Rick Monteverde writes:

     That's a little close to the fact that random signals are added to
     *reduce* accuracy for civilian use to prevent the enemy from accessing
     highly accurate position data. Are you sure you have that right?

Quite sure. The manual discussed that, too. I believe there was some mention
of the GPS random noise in the Moss & Wiesenfeld article cited by Hal, which I
vaguely remember reading.

I believe the Pentagon's attempt to reduce accuracy for civilian use has
largely been defeated. I think I even read that commercial GPS receivers are
now better than the Pentagon's own equipment, and better than they thought was
theoretically possible. The other day some surveyors in my neighborhood were
using GPS instruments to measure distances to within less than a meter, for
sewer construction. Yeah, it says here in Encarta: "Surveyors pioneered the
use of a carrier frequency processing to compute positions to within about
1 cm (about 0.4 in). SPS, DGPS, and carrier techniques are accessible to all
users." The cutest GPS application I have seen is a unit for hikers that
drops electronic Hansel and Gretel cookie crumbs along the way. When you want
to go back, the machine tells you the bearing and distance at every turning
point, and on straight roads at programmable intervals of a few hundred
meters.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 13:30:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA11720; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:59:52 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:59:52 -0800
Message-Id: <199703042059.PAA14684 mail.enter.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chronos mailman.enter.net>
From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos enter.net>
Organization: Applied Science Associates
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:20:33 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Nieper at Temple Univ. [was Re: More Meyer]
Reply-to: chronos enter.net
CC: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"Aaxrt1.0.-s2.4r87p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4700
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Vortexians,

I checked with the Center for Frontier Sciences at Temple Univ. re
Dr. Nieper's visit on March 17. 

Nieper is scheduled to present a lecture and video tape; there is no
plan for any "demonstration" of actual devices.  :-(

Actually, this makes sense. The logistics of mounting a successful
public O/U demo in a one-day stopover -- including shipping
electrical machines from Europe -- would be very difficult. 

Also, I'm told that Crestview Aerospace is not a sponsor of the
event at Temple. 

I'll be attending Nieper's lecture, and will post a report to
VORTEX-L.

Here's the original announcement from Temple:

March 17, 1997 (Monday) 2:00 pm
Dr. Hans A Nieper, FAPM, 
President of the German Association of Vacuum Field Energy and
Past-President of the German Society of Oncology, Hannover, Germany
"Conversions of Vacuum Field Energy: Its Significance for Medicine,
Medical Therapy, and Energy Technology in the Forthcoming Century." 

The space between particles of atomic matter is filled with an energy
field, called a vacuum field.  This field shows an extremely high
energy density and vital interactions with biological systems. The
prospects for developments in medicine and energy technology are
presented, including the conversion of vacuum-field energy into usable
forms.

Place: Temple University
Kiva Auditorium, Ritter Hall Annex
1301 Cecil B. Moore Ave. 
(NE corner of North Broad St. & Cecil B. Moore Ave.)
Philadelphia, PA

Time: 2:00 - 3:30 p.m.
Refreshments served at 1:30 p.m.
Lectures are free; the academic community and public are invited.

-------------------------
For further information, please contact:
Nancy Kolenda, Coordinator
Phone: 215-204-8487 Fax: 215-204-5553
E-mail: v2058a vm.temple.edu
Website: http://www.temple.edu/CFS



Best regards, 
Bob Flower

=======================================================
Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates
Quality Control Engineering
Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer
=======================================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 13:56:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA22385; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:40:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:40:58 -0800
Message-ID: <331C9625.28EB interlaced.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 16:37:41 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703041830.MAA03372 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ACBFQ3.0.TT5.bR97p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4702
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
>
(snip) 
  True it's not the same forces or
> force vs distance relationships with the Casimir force but similar energy
> relationships surely hold...no?
> 
Hmmmmm, hey Scott, see if you could con - er - talk Hal into doing a
rigorous "complete path analysis" of Robert's motor concept.  The
drastic range-of-force differences between EM and Casimir forces makes
this model intriguing!

Intrigued, ignorant and lazy in Ashtabula ------ Frank Stenger

PS: Maybe Hal knows if it's already been done?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 13:56:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA23189; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:43:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:43:46 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Noise, GPS, HTSC
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:24:47 +0000
Message-ID: <19970304212445.AAA10668 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"x3OlR3.0.Dg5.FU97p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4703
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:45 PM 3/4/97 +0000, Jed wrote:
>To: Vortex

>The cutest GPS application I have seen is a unit for hikers that
>drops electronic Hansel and Gretel cookie crumbs along the way. When you want
>to go back, the machine tells you the bearing and distance at every turning
>point, and on straight roads at programmable intervals of a few hundred
>meters.
>
They work great. I bought one for my wife so she could find her car at Walmart.

She thought it was "too complicated" so it was donated to a local high
school to raise money for a science  club. Cost right at $200.00, (about a
dollar a waypoint ie., crumb) plus batteries. <g>

Regards,    Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 14:22:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA19044; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:30:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:30:00 -0800
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:03:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703042103.QAA22895 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <199703041830.MAA03372 natashya.eden.com> (message from Scott Little on Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:30:19 -0600 (CST))
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"PQTID2.0.Tf4.LH97p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4701
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



   Scott Little (little eden.com) said:

  > Robert, I believe that all 3-D macroscopic arrangements of matter
  > have a conservative interaction with the ZPF, including your
  > proposed arrangement.  Thus, I predict that you will have to do
  > work to rotate the discs w.r.t each other, precisely the amount of
  > work that you then save when the rotated discs are pulled apart,
  > making the round trip have a perfect energy balance.

   Sounds good, but ain't true, whether you can build a useful machine
or not is another question.  First, let me dispose of the rotation
issue.  Imagine the configuration when the plates are at 90 degrees
coming apart.  The Casmir force is pushing the plates together in the
area of overlap, and at the two edge overlaps there is a net force
counter to the rotation.  As long as the plates are fixed horizontally
in space all these forces net out during a complete rotation--no
movement, no work.

   Now let's let them move closer together.  The Casmir force which we
are extracting scales as d^4.  The edge effects scale also, but to a
close approximation you are integrating over the secant.  In effect
the edge effect scales as the cube of the vertical separation.  (At
the exact instant when the plates are aligned the scaling is
identical.)

   When the disks are coming together, the edge effect will be
speeding the disks up.  Since to extract useful work, the disks have
to move closer together at the right point in the cycle, this will not
cancel the force when the plates are moving apart.  But the net effect
can only cancel the Casmir effect at one particular distance, since
the scaling rules are different. 

   So there are design tradeoffs to be made, including figuring out
how to insure that the rotating plates never touch.  (My best design
uses a superconductor in a ring around the disk, above a circular
magnet.  But you need a type I superconductor to avoid flux drag.)
But as far as I can tell this IS a type 2 perpetual motion machine.
However, unless someone figures out how to build a working device with
lots of thin plates though, it is just a laboratory curiosity.


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 14:54:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA01412; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:23:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:23:25 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:23:03 +0000
Message-ID: <19970304222301.AAA8208 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Dxn0K1.0.nL.P3A7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4704
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:03 PM 3/4/97 +0000, Robert I. Eachus wrote:
>
>
>   Scott Little (little eden.com) said:
>
>  > Robert, I believe that all 3-D macroscopic arrangements of matter
>  > have a conservative interaction with the ZPF, including your
>  > proposed arrangement.  Thus, I predict that you will have to do
>  > work to rotate the discs w.r.t each other, precisely the amount of
>  > work that you then save when the rotated discs are pulled apart,
>  > making the round trip have a perfect energy balance.
>
>   When the disks are coming together, the edge effect will be
>speeding the disks up.  Since to extract useful work, the disks have
>to move closer together at the right point in the cycle, this will not
>cancel the force when the plates are moving apart.  But the net effect
>can only cancel the Casmir effect at one particular distance, since
>the scaling rules are different. 
>
>   So there are design tradeoffs to be made, including figuring out
>how to insure that the rotating plates never touch.  (My best design
>uses a superconductor in a ring around the disk, above a circular
>magnet.  But you need a type I superconductor to avoid flux drag.
>

The designs under consideration sound a lot like the design and physics of
an electrostatic (quadrant) voltmeter where the energy stored is 1/2 CV^2
and the force is
F = dW/ds = (V^2/2) dC/ds where s is the plate spacing.

The Torque T = (V^2/2) dC/d theta, radians. How do you plan to get over the
hump?  <g>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 15:09:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA07642; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:52:38 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:52:38 -0800
Date: 04 Mar 97 17:50:13 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Nieper at Temple Univ. [was Re: More Meyer]
Message-ID: <970304225013_100060.173_JHB145-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"tF4O13.0.Et1.kUA7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4706
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your efforts with Temple Univ.  I look forward to your report
afterwards.

As for Dr Nieper, I quote from his letter to me:

"The ML converter, which I will show in Temple University (Phila) on Mar 17 has
an overunity efficiency which is close to indefinite [sic] [I assume he means
infinite] (3 Kw constantly)."

It may be that he will only be displaying his device and not demonstrating it -
what a waste!

It would be interesting if you are able to put questions to him - along the
lines of - Have you proof of the ou performance of Meyer's water fuel cell?  If
you can get him to name the department and investigator of Lewis Research Center
(NASA) responsible for the "certification" of the Meyer cell so much the better.
I have yet to have a response from NASA to my fax. Surprize surprize!

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 15:24:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA06704; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:49:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:49:44 -0800
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:49:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703042249.RAA23319 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <19970304222301.AAA8208 LOCALNAME> (frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"NaOvs3.0.ge1.5SA7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4705
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


  > The Torque T = (V^2/2) dC/d theta, radians. How do you plan to get over the
  > hump?  <g>

    Why do think I said you want a fairly heavy rotor?  Two reasons,
one is that the energy required to move off perfect alignment is
(relatively) big.  The other is that the you don't want the rotor
moving, but the stator.  (In reality you probably end up with a
sandwhich, two stator disks, one rotor.  The stators can move (and
generate work) the rotor has no net forces (other than the drag
mentioned).

    AFAIK, the numbers work, but unless I can get flying head
clearances in a vacuum, the amount of energy generated is going to be
pretty piddling.  But, hey, it is over-unity.


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 15:37:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA13525; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:13:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:13:58 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970304231237.00688100 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 18:12:37 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Noise (Can improve S/N Ratio)
Resent-Message-ID: <"0Q64o.0.6J3.noA7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4707
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 11:19 AM 3/4/97 -0500, Hal wrote:
>Mitchell Swartz asks:
>
><<Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.  
>Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
>published paper.>>
>
>This is a well-developed field known as "stochastic resonance." There are a
>number of papers in the literature as to how adding noise to certain kinds of
>signals can actually improve signal-to-noise ratio.  For starters I recommend
>F. Moss and K. Wiesenfeld, "The benefits of background noise," Sci. Am., p.
>66, Aug 1995 and references therein.  Its subtitle reads:
>
>"Stochastic resonance, the phenomenon by which background noise boosts weak
>signals, is creating a buzz in physics, biology and engineering."
>
>I also have many technical references if you need more.  See, e.g., Phys Rev
>Lett., vol. 77, p. 4098 (1996); Nature, vol. 365, p. 337 (1993).
>
>Hal Puthoff
>
>

 Thank you, Hal.  will check

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 16:11:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA00559; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:57:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:57:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703042356.SAA06944 mail.enter.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chronos mailman.enter.net>
From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos enter.net>
Organization: Applied Science Associates
To: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:17:45 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Nieper at Temple Univ. [was Re: More Meyer]
Reply-to: chronos enter.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <970304225013_100060.173_JHB145-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"GYSgd2.0.b8.HRB7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4711
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On  4 Mar 97 at 17:50, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote:

> It would be interesting if you are able to put questions to him -
> along the lines of - Have you proof of the ou performance of Meyer's
> water fuel cell?  If you can get him to name the department and
> investigator of Lewis Research Center (NASA) responsible for the
> "certification" of the Meyer cell so much the better. I have yet to
> have a response from NASA to my fax. Surprize surprize!


Hi Norman,

These are good questions -- I'll do my best to ask them.  

Could you e-mail me the exact lines of Nieper's text where he
mentions o/u performance of Meyer's water-fuel cell, and refers to
"certification" of same by NASA Lewis Research Center?  

This will provide a definite point of reference for raising these
questions.  [And I'm sorry if I missed them from earlier VORTEX-L
postings.]


Best regards, 
Bob Flower

=======================================================
Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates
Quality Control Engineering
Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer
=======================================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 21:08:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA29548; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:57:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:57:15 -0800
Message-Id: <m0w28lI-0004IHC mirage.skypoint.com>
From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan)
Subject: Re: Noise, GPS, HTSC
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:57:08 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <970304164900_72240.1256_EHB91-1 CompuServe.COM> from "Jed Rothwell" at Mar 4, 97 11:49:01 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"W2qRj2.0.YD7.gqF7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4712
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell writes:
>      Some months back someone on this forum (I think) explained how addition
>      of a small amount of noise to a signal could make it more accurate in
>      the long run.
> 
> I don't remember if I mentioned this back then, but the Global Positioning
> Satellite (GPS) signals use this technique. They introduce "fake" noise from a
> random number generator. Not only does it improve accuracy, it helps impede
> real noise and enemy signal jamming. I don't understand the mathematics of the
> technique. I read about it in a manual for a GPS receiver.

GPS uses "direct sequence spread spectrum" which means a very high rate
pseudo-random number generator modulates the much slower message data bits.

This is by no means the only way to do "spread spectrum" but it happens to
be relatively easier to implement than some other methods.

In the pseudo-random method, the effect of the very high rate modulation
is to spread the RF energy out over a very wide frequency band -- it is
intentionally very *inefficient*, bandwidth wise [though there is a silver
lining even there.]  Since the RF energy is widely spread, normal narrow
band receivers only randomly see its faint energy occupy their narrow
domain.  So typical radios simply detect it as the tinyist rise in the
average background noise.  They can't distinquish it from the other
potential zillion natural noise sources.

In the other direction, the spread spectrum receiver uses exactly the same
pseudo-random number sequence to modulate the incoming signal, which has
the opposite effect and deconvolutes the spread energy back into the
original data stream.  The *hardest* part of spread spectrum systems is
getting the receiver random number generator synched with the transmitter
random number generator.

Note that narrow band noise, when run through the receiver demodulator,
is spread out even while the spread out spread spectrum signal is de-spread.
That's why narrow band noise can't easily jam SS.

Also, any other spread spectrum signal on top of your intended spread
spectrum signal, likely has a different spreading code, or it is in
a different phase, so it would not be de-spread by your receiver because
the sequence doesn't correlate.  Natural noise doesn't correlate either,
so it tends to nullify itself in the de-spreader.

That's why that even though SS is inefficient in terms of bandwidth, it
can recover utilitization by virtue of "code division multiplexing."

Of course, there is a limit, per Shannon, to even spread spectrum packing.
What happens is that as more and more spread spectrum channels occupy the
same band, the noise floor eventually gets so intense that even SS can't
be reliably de-spread.

Distance measuring is sort of a by-product of the spreading codes.  Since
they are unique at any point in their phase (until they eventually repeat)
you can know your relative position to within one "chip time."  You need
several simultaneous satellite signals to solve the multiple unknown
triangulation equations -- but that has more to do with geometry than with
spread spectrum.


> of high definition television (HDTV) now underway in a few cities. The signal
> contains much more information and decoding it is much more complicated than a
> regular NTSC broadcast, yet experts were surprised to find that it carries
> much better, much farther than a regular broadcast. They are getting good
> reception 60 miles away from the tower with much less power than they used to
> use. HDTV displays have no snow, flickering or other artifacts. I suppose the
> error correction and other signal processing that eliminates the artifacts
> also "strengthens" the signal, making it viable at a great distance.

I'm pretty sure HDTV is digital, meaning most of the "analog" problems are
eliminated (ghost, snow, etc.)  They can then send error correcting codes
which handle simple errors, and "last good received" to paper over major
signal dropouts.  My guess would be that reception is very good up to
a certain distance, and then gets very bad very fast beyond that.

-- 
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  612-699-9472 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 21:52:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA07963 for billb@eskimo.com; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:52:28 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:52:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Envelope-From: nobody photoshoot.com  Tue Mar  4 21:52:24 1997
Received: from rio.photoshoot.com (rio.photoshoot.com [204.177.222.103]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA07931 for <vortex-l eskimo.com>; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:52:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: (from nobody localhost) by rio.photoshoot.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA21320; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:52:00 -0500
Old-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:52:00 -0500
Message-Id: <199703050552.AAA21320 rio.photoshoot.com>
From: webmaster centerfolds.com
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Club Centerfolds Registration Info
X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: O
X-Status: 


==========================================================================
                  W E L C O M E   N E W   M E M B E R
    Please read this email *ENTIRELY* and then SAVE IT somewhere safe!
==========================================================================

***************************************************************************
*  WHAT IS THIS EMAIL?  I DIDN'T REQUEST THIS!  AM I BEING CHARGED MONEY? *
*  ( note: this section is only for people who do not know why they are ) *
*  ( receiving this email.  Otherwise, skip to the introduction.        ) *
***************************************************************************
*
* 1. DON'T PANIC!  Please read this section before worrying or getting mad.
*
* 2. You are NOT on a mailing list.  Somebody (we do not know who)
*    entered your email address in our registration form.
*
* 3. You will NOT BE CHARGED ANY MONEY because of this!
*
* 4. To easily be removed from our database, send an email with
*    the subject "unsubscribe serpent" (no quotes) to:
*         unsubscribe centerfolds.com
*
***************************************************************************

================
  INTRODUCTION
================

Welcome to Club Centerfolds!  We appreciate your registration!

1) By entering the site you agree that you have read, understand,
   and will abide by the rules specified in this email.  If you do
   not agree, you must not proceed!
2) Please save this email.  It really is important.

==================
  WHAT TO DO NOW
==================

After you have read and agreed to the rules, simply go back to the
home page (http://www.centerfolds.com/) and click on the button
which says "I Have Registered".  You will be asked for a username
and password.  Here are yours:

   Username: serpent
   Password: fx96ugha

(This is why it is important to save this email... how else will
you remember that password? :-)  Consider printing it out, too)

Once you get to this location successfully be sure to save it in
your bookmarks (or favorite places list) so that you can easily go
back to it later.

====================
  MORE INFORMATION
====================

1) We will never store your credit card number anywhere if you use
   a credit card to buy membership time.  That means that if someone
   gets your username and password somehow you are not open to any
   fraudulent charges.  Your security is very important to us.
2) You can browse the site without incurring a charge.  Don't worry
   about clicking on anything in the site unless you are entering
   your credit card number or a First Virtual ID.  You won't be
   charged unless you explicitly request it.
3) There are no recurring charges.  You will never be charged unless
   you explicitly ask to be charged.
4) Any charges appearing on a credit card will be billed to "C.C. Inc."
5) Please save this email.  :-)

=========
  RULES
=========

I certify that by entering this site that I am over 21 years of
age, and I am fully aware that this website contains sexually
oriented adult material, and I do not believe that viewing sexually
explicit images, or the downloading of the images, is in any way
a violation of the standards of decency of the community in which
I reside or any governmental body under whose jurisdiction I may
reside. I further certify that I will hold the publishers of this
site harmless of any legal ramifications that may arise as a result
of fraudulent entry or use of this website and material contained
herein.

I agree that the publishers of this site have given me the rights
to view and download the images contained in this site for my own
use only.  I agree not to redistribute any images from this site
in any fashion, electronic or hardcopy, under penalty of complete
loss of access to the site and forfeiture of remaining access time
(without refund) in addition to possible civil or criminal charges.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar  4 22:08:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA25657; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:52:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:52:21 -0800
From: "Jay Olson" <olso3562 novell.uidaho.edu>
Organization: University of Idaho
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:49:59 PST8PDT
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a)
Message-ID: <4FFFBE7E54 hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu>
Resent-Message-ID: <"tu2qL3.0.XG6.cMB7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4710
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

     Just one more thought.  Am I right in assuming that the Casimir 
force only exists between two conductors?  If this is so, could a 
material be used whose conductivity could be varied by some outside 
intervention?  If so, the energy gained when two plates (or whatever) 
come together could be used, then the conductivity of the plate 
material "swiched off" before the plates (or whatever) are pulled 
apart.  I hope I'm not putting my foot into my mouth again :).

JAY OLSON

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 00:33:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA21383; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:40:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:40:37 -0800
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:39:55 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703042339.RAA08624 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"uGkw8.0.sD5.lBB7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4708
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert, my tenuous understanding of your geometry has evaporated. In the
first post you talked about rotating the plates 10 degrees and pulling them
apart, then you switched to 90 degrees.  Please describe the geometry one
more time being as descriptive as possible.  Leave out all the "engineering"
details like getting the plates close and making them tiny or spinning them
fast....just give me the fundamental concept in detail, please.

If you are right, this is an extremely important idea that deserves
development. 

 

Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 00:56:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA23935; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:46:08 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:46:08 -0800 (PST)
Date: 05 Mar 97 03:44:27 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Nieper at Temple Univ. [was Re: More Meyer]
Message-ID: <970305084426_100060.173_JHB132-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"WlSrA2.0.vr5.EBJ7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4713
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Bob,

>> These are good questions -- I'll do my best to ask them.

Could you e-mail me the exact lines of Nieper's text where he
mentions o/u performance of Meyer's water-fuel cell, and refers to
"certification" of same by NASA Lewis Research Center? <<

Sure:

"I have never been in Ohio, however Lewis Nasa [sic] certified a 3 plus X
overunity for Meyer."

and later on in his letter to me:

"Important /: Lewis Nasa points to the absence of heat when the hydrogen is
generated !!  This is not so for conventional electro-hydrolysis." [sic]

I am going to get to the bottom of this Meyer thing if its the last thing I
do!!!  If it turns out that it works, then every means at my disposal will be
brought to bear on getting the process developed here.  If it can be proved that
the whole thing is a gobbldygook scam, intentional or otherwise, then he must be
stopped once and for all.

Norman

P.S. Please stop sending me a direct email copy of your vortex msgs - I am a
regular lurker! NH

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 01:10:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA22709; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:44:38 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:44:38 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:42:44 +0000
Message-ID: <19970304234242.AAA22422 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"3sLK5.0.eX5.BFB7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4709
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:49 PM 3/4/97 +0000, Robert I. Eachus wrote:
>
>  > The Torque T = (V^2/2) dC/d theta, radians. How do you plan to get over the
>  > hump?  <g>
>
>    Why do think I said you want a fairly heavy rotor?  Two reasons,
>one is that the energy required to move off perfect alignment is
>(relatively) big.  The other is that the you don't want the rotor
>moving, but the stator.  (In reality you probably end up with a
>sandwhich, two stator disks, one rotor.  The stators can move (and
>generate work) the rotor has no net forces (other than the drag
>mentioned).
>
>    AFAIK, the numbers work, but unless I can get flying head
>clearances in a vacuum, the amount of energy generated is going to be
>pretty piddling.  But, hey, it is over-unity.

Lord Kelvin, ca. 1867 used stacked quadrant plates something like the old
tuning condensers in radios, to get the voltage sensitivity up. This might
be a way to get more torque along with a "flywheel" effect. The literature I
looked at said that he had to incorporate some pretty good magnetic or oil
damping, but this is what I think you want to exploit.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 02:05:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA02636; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:55:17 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:55:17 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Nieper at Temple Univ. [was Re: More Meyer]
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 10:55:21 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33221ce4.33061796 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970304225013_100060.173_JHB145-1 CompuServe.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970304225013_100060.173_JHB145-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Fgw2o2.0.2f.2CK7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4714
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 04 Mar 97 17:50:13 EST, Norman Horwood wrote:
[snip]
>"The ML converter, which I will show in Temple University (Phila) on Mar 17 has
>an overunity efficiency which is close to indefinite [sic] [I assume he means
>infinite] (3 Kw constantly)."
>
>It may be that he will only be displaying his device and not demonstrating it -
>what a waste!
Even a displayed device should have measurable radioactivity, if such is
the source of power.
[snip]


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 02:06:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA06925; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:56:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:56:20 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Light electrons
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 10:55:18 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3321178d.31694458 mail.netspace.net.au>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"u2dGS3.0._h1.1DK7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4715
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

There is (was) a Keelynet article about splitting steam with UV light, and
getting OU in the process. Perhaps the UV was creating light electrons, and
"shrunken hydrogen"?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 03:04:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA14675; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:54:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:54:31 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:54:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Ca(OH)2
In-Reply-To: <19970304134829.AAA13274 LOCALNAME>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970305105129.8696B-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"puzQU1.0.Db3.b3L7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4716
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick,

Yes, you are right. I thought this was all going on in solution. I see 
that you use the Ca(OH)2 as merely a vehicle for delievering hydrogen and 
oxygen to the mixture.

No, the bacteria idea was one of those ideas whose time never comes.

Also heard that very high temp. or reaction in u.v. lamp will decompose 
about everything so that particularly stable compounds drop out of the 
flame from all the crap that's been put in.

Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 03:13:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA16313; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:03:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:03:33 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:02:50 +0000
Message-ID: <19970305110248.AAA22522 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Yh2qd2.0.k-3.3CL7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4717
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert & Scott:

Following up on the "quadrant" layout for the motor design, I think that in
order to get the gossamer thin clearances (in an easy manner) is to use a
heavy solid cylinder grooved along it's length for the rotor. This will make
the segments required and be easy to machine.

The outer or stator section can be a hollow cylinder internally grooved
using Electrical Discharge Machining, EDM, which can achieve fractions of
microinch tolerances and finish using a graphite "cutting tool" that is
grooved like the rotor and is easy to machine. Something like a .25 meter
length could be attained without much trouble.

FWIW, This is an all or nothing approach. <G>

Regards,   Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 03:20:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA08354; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:11:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Light electrons
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:10:41 +0000
Message-ID: <19970305111039.AAA24442 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"AM2bE2.0.R22.FJL7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4718
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:55 AM 3/5/97 +0000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

>There is (was) a Keelynet article about splitting steam with UV light, and
>getting OU in the process. Perhaps the UV was creating light electrons, and
>"shrunken hydrogen"?
>
Could be that, or the UV was "pulling" existing light electron-positron
pairs off of the water and/or causing them to annihilate.

Thanks for the info., Robin.   BTW. What is Keelynet?

Regards,   Frederick 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 04:08:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA10370; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:58:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:58:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Ca(OH)2
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:56:15 +0000
Message-ID: <19970305115614.AAA10225 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Gcx2L3.0.yX2.G_L7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4719
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:54 AM 3/5/97 +0000, Remi wrote:
>Frederick,
>
>Yes, you are right. I thought this was all going on in solution. I see 
>that you use the Ca(OH)2 as merely a vehicle for delievering hydrogen and 
>oxygen to the mixture.
>
>No, the bacteria idea was one of those ideas whose time never comes.

I wouldn't say that. On the www.uspto.gov web page there is a recent patent
(keywords, acetic acid AND synthesis gas)on a bacteria that converts a mix
of H2 & CO to acetic acid, CH3-CO-OH (vinegar). If you can use the right
"decarboxylase" enzyme you can convert the acetic acid to methane and CO2.
This might also work on other carboxylic acids to get propane and CO2 etc.
>
>Also heard that very high temp. or reaction in u.v. lamp will decompose 
>about everything so that particularly stable compounds drop out of the 
>flame from all the crap that's been put in.
>

You just can't beat thermochemical (pyrolysis) approaches to get rid of the
hazardous chemicals if you can get the heat cheap enough. Biomass and
municipal solid wastes MSW are good sources of cheap thermal energy.

There was a proposal out a few years ago by a company that still uses the
calcium carbide furnaces to mix asbestos into the process to denature it.
Seemed like a good idea to me.

If you ever tire of The White Cliffs of Dover, that chalk (CaCO3) works
wonders with carbonaceous materials to do the same thing in a rotary kiln,
even on old car tires.  <G>

Regards,  Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 04:12:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA22671; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 04:00:28 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 04:00:28 -0800
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 06:59:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970305065950_787629953 emout06.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Nieper Lecture at Temple University
Resent-Message-ID: <"XKDrQ2.0.9Y5.S1M7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4720
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Dr. Hans Nieper will lecture at Temple University in Philadelphia on March 17
on new energy and other topics. He will not be bringing any equipment. He has
asked for a VCR and TV. I plan to attend the lecture and will report anything
of interest to the vortex community. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 05:22:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA30872; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:11:28 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:11:28 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Ca(OH)2
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:10:46 +0000
Message-ID: <19970305131044.AAA11324 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"o93P5.0.IY7.-3N7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4721
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:54 AM 3/5/97 +0000, Remi wrote:

>Frederick,
>
> I see that you use the Ca(OH)2 as merely a vehicle for delievering
hydrogen and oxygen to the mixture.
>
Oops. Missed something here, Remi. Yes, using the Ca(OH)2 is a good way to
get high temperature water for the reactions where if you tried to get water
up to over 500 C it would be well over it's critical temperature and
pressure (>>3,000
psi at 360 C). But, also the Calcium is tying up the Chlorine as calcium
chloride, CaCL2, and the fluorine as the calcium fluoride, CaF2. This
essentially puts them back where they came from.

BTW. I demonstrated this at a meeting in a small conference room in an
upscale hotel in 1980, using a one pound coffee can with a mix of feedlot
manure and lime, on a hotplate. The combustible off-gasses were exited
through a pinhole in the lid and made a nice flame.

Unfortunately, unbeknownst to us,some of the (not so pleasing) vapours that
escaped during startup got into the hotel air conditioning system and
ventured into the gourmet dining room which spoiled a few appetites and
brought out the fire department. The fire chief stuck his head in the door
and asked if we had noticed anthing unsual? <G> 

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 06:19:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04863; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:57:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:57:48 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:57:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Molten Metals Ca(OH)2
In-Reply-To: <19970305131044.AAA11324 LOCALNAME>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970305134831.8840B-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"uihfu2.0.rB1.QlN7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4722
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick,

Wow, vortex is fast today! Just was writing another message as your 
latest came in, then my newest bounced back from vortex within about a 
minute; it normally takes about 20-30!

Smells of manure in the air-conditioning system of the hotel putting
people off their food!!! Was the food grown organically in the luxury
dining area? - its really quite the fashion among the
trendy-socialite-portentious-pretentious-idle-bourgeouis-chattering
classes (is that enough adjectives?). There's a saying in the computer
world, GIGO - garbage in, garbage out! 

Got to go for today.
Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 06:46:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA09897; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 06:29:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 06:29:36 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:29:23 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703051429.IAA25382 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"CYT5y1.0.1Q2.FDO7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4723
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:49 PM 3/4/97 PST8PDT, you wrote:

>     Just one more thought.  Am I right in assuming that the Casimir 
>force only exists between two conductors?  If this is so, could a 
>material be used whose conductivity could be varied by some outside 
>intervention?  If so, the energy gained when two plates (or whatever) 
>come together could be used, then the conductivity of the plate 
>material "swiched off" before the plates (or whatever) are pulled 
>apart.  I hope I'm not putting my foot into my mouth again :).

Good thinking!  Once again Puthoff & I have discussed this possibility at
some length, this time without coming to any firm conclusion.  It seems to
me (Mr. Conservative) that work would probably have to be done to perform
the switch... precisely the same amount of work that you subsequently saved
in pulling the plates apart after the switch.  

I think of bringing two charge dipoles together with opposite charges
approaching each other.  You can get 1 unit of work out of that system as
the dipoles approach because they attract.  Now, if you rotate one of the
dipoles around so they repel you'll find that you have to do 2 units of work
to do the rotation.  Once the rotation is complete the system has 1 unit of
work as stored potential energy...if you let the move apart again you can
extract that 1 unit of work and the system returns to the original zero
energy level.  I'll bet that something like that would be going on when
switching from conductive to non-conductive.
 - Scott Little
 EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759
 512-342-2185 (voice)  512-346-3017 (FAX)  little eden.com (email)
 http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 07:17:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA22973; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:06:46 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:06:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:06:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970305100613_207919065 emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"yCEP82.0.sc5.3mO7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4724
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Jay Olsen comments:

<<Just one more thought.  Am I right in assuming that the Casimir 
force only exists between two conductors?  If this is so, could a 
material be used whose conductivity could be varied by some outside 
intervention?  If so, the energy gained when two plates (or whatever) 
come together could be used, then the conductivity of the plate 
material "swiched off" before the plates (or whatever) are pulled 
apart.>>

Casimir force exists between dielectrics as well, though weaker.
 Nonetheless, your hypothesized approach should work in principle, switching
between conductive and dielectric plate conditions.  I plotted all this out a
few years ago and then began looking for materials that could do this.  So
far, the switching energies required were greater than what I got out.  But
go for it if you can find the right material!

Hal Puthoff


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 07:22:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA15678; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:09:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:09:37 -0800
Date: 05 Mar 97 10:06:35 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: A week to vaporize earth?
Message-ID: <970305150634_72240.1256_EHB111-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZmmWr2.0.uq3.loO7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4725
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Here is a funny question. Suppose, as part of an out-of-control Science Fair
project, I decide to vaporize Planet Earth. I set up giant mirrors to redirect
all of the sun's radiation towards earth. How long will it take? I just ran
the numbers, and it appears to be much longer than I thought. Since I am the
world's worst mathematician, I thought I would run this by Vortex, in case
someone else out there has time to kill this morning.

The sun generates 3.8*10^33 ergs/sec, or 3.8*10^26 watts. The mass of the earth
is 5.98*10^21 metric tons, or 6*10^27 grams. Let's assume it is all iron. Iron
boils at 2750 deg C, but I have no idea how much energy it takes make the
phase transitions. With water, that's a giant jump, but with lead it is small.
I have no idea about iron. If it took 2 joules per gram straight up from 0 to
2750 degrees (a ridiculous assumption), that would be 5500 joules to per gram,
or 3*10^31 joules for the whole earth. Divide that by the sun's output and it
comes out at 24.1 hours. One day! Is that a coincidence, or do these numbers
have some cosmic significance?!? Taking into account phase transitions,
perhaps it would take a week to unmake Genesis. Or did I drop five orders of
magnitude somewhere?

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 08:36:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA29847; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:24:50 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:24:50 -0800
Message-ID: <331D9E64.5A73 interlaced.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 11:25:08 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703041830.MAA03372 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"qpsUU3.0.HI7.GvP7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4726
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 
(snip)
> Thus, I predict that you will have to do work to rotate the discs w.r.t each
> other, precisely the amount of work that you then save when the rotated
> discs are pulled apart, making the round trip have a perfect energy balance.
>

Scott, I think I see your point!

					_	_
				       | |     | |
				       | |     | |
				       |3|     |4|
				       | |     | |
				       |-|-->--|-|
				       |||     |||
				       |||     |||
				       |^|     |||
				       |||     |||
				_       |       |
			       | |     |||     |||
			       | |     |||     |||
		STATOR PLATE   | |     |||     |||  ARMATURE PLATE
		L x L square   | |     |||     |||    L x L square
			       | |     |-|--<--|-|
			       | |     | |     | |
			       | |     |2|     |1|
			       | |<--->| |     | |
			       | |  d  | |     | |
			        -       -       -

In the above (poor) sketch, let d be a small Casimir-type distance,
say, 0.1 micron?  The stator and armature, shown on-edge, are assumed
to be length, L, on a side.  
At separation, d, the Casimir force will act over area L^2 and we could
extract work from position 1 to 2.  Assume that the distance from 1 to
2 is a small number of "d's".  
Now, I at first thought that the edge forces, acting on an area like
2 x d x L would be negligible - but, from position 2 to 3, they move
thru the large distance, L!  I think I see now that the extraction of
work involving the large area, L x L moving through a small distance
of order, d,  will be of the same order as the smaller edge force,
acting on an area like d x L and moving through a LARGE distance, L.

I get the feeling, without doing the detailed path analysis, that your
initial statement above is probably right.  Am I on the right track?

Fightning disappointment in Ashtabula --------- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 09:29:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA00964; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:44:11 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:44:11 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: A week to vaporize earth?
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:43:00 +0000
Message-ID: <19970305164258.AAA19294 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"gkNVr1.0.-E.PBQ7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4727
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:06 PM 3/5/97 +0000, Jed wrote:
>To: Vortex
>
>Here is a funny question. Suppose, as part of an out-of-control Science Fair
>project, I decide to vaporize Planet Earth. I set up giant mirrors to redirect
>all of the sun's radiation towards earth. How long will it take? I just ran
>the numbers, and it appears to be much longer than I thought. Since I am the
>world's worst mathematician, I thought I would run this by Vortex, in case
>someone else out there has time to kill this morning.
>
>The sun generates 3.8*10^33 ergs/sec, or 3.8*10^26 watts. The mass of the earth
>is 5.98*10^21 metric tons, or 6*10^27 grams. Let's assume it is all iron. Iron
>boils at 2750 deg C, but I have no idea how much energy it takes make the
>phase transitions. With water, that's a giant jump, but with lead it is small.
>I have no idea about iron. If it took 2 joules per gram straight up from 0 to
>2750 degrees (a ridiculous assumption), that would be 5500 joules to per gram,
>or 3*10^31 joules for the whole earth. Divide that by the sun's output and it
>comes out at 24.1 hours. One day! Is that a coincidence, or do these numbers
>have some cosmic significance?!? Taking into account phase transitions,
>perhaps it would take a week to unmake Genesis. Or did I drop five orders of
>magnitude somewhere?
>
>- Jed
>
Being an avid fan of, Pinky and The Brain, who's goal is to;
"take over the world" this is something that concerns me also. <g>

Sun's total output, 3.66E23 btu/second

Earths Mass,  5.98E24 Kg = 1.316E25 lbs.

Specific heat of iron,  0.11 btu/lb x deg F

Heat to get to fusion temp, about 4.0E27 btu

Heat of fusion of iron, 117 btu/lb (M.P. 2800 deg F)

Heat required for fusion, about 1.55E27 btu

Heat required to get to boiling point, about 4.0E27 btu

Heat of vaporization, at about 400 btu/lb = 5.4E27 btu

Total heat input, about 1.5E28 btu

1.5E28/3.66E23 btu/sec = 4.08E4 seconds or about 11.35 hours for Poof. )-:

At over 1.2E19 btu/day solar insolation on the earth (12,000 quads/day) as
opposed to the quad/day world energy consumption seems a bit inefficient,
fortunately.

I prefer things the way they are. But, I still want to take over the world
before that mouse does. <g>

Regards,   Frederick


   

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 09:30:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA03148; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:58:51 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:58:51 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:58:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970305115812_-2075669948 emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: possibilities
Resent-Message-ID: <"gKigy1.0.1n.9PQ7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4728
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Nonetheless, your hypothesized approach should work in principle, switching
between conductive and dielectric plate conditions.  I plotted all this out a
few years ago and then began looking for materials that could do this.  So
far, the switching energies required were greater than what I got out.  But
go for it if you can find the right material!

Hal Puthoff
..............................................................................
....................................
I believe that there is a link between gravity, superconductivity, and excess
energy.  A cermaic superconductor is an insulator.  Upon cooling it becomes
superconductive.  At high flux densities the superconductivity breaks down.
 I have been looking for a way to exploit the breaking of the superconductive
condition to produce excess energy.  The breaking of the superconductive
condition is in effect a "switchable conductor".  I believed long ago before
Tempere that there was a link between superconductive systems and gravity.
 There has got to be a way to produce electrical energy from such a system.
 I applied for a patent on such a device 10 years ago.  I never got it
working.  I sent Scott a copy.  Any comments Scott?

Frank Z

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 09:41:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA10187; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 09:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 09:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970305092607.00c0dc5c mail.localaccess.com>
X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 09:26:08 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Epitaxy <epitaxy LocalAccess.com>
Subject: Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Resent-Message-ID: <"9TFB93.0._U2.IoQ7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4729
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Dear Jean

I have verified that the mechanical force on one side of the gate is stronger.

HOWEVER !!!  I have also noticed that the mechanical force on the "weak'
side of the gate reaches further out than the force on the "strong" side.

This is similar to discharging an electrical capacitor; 10 Amps for 1
second  VS. 1 Amp for 10 seconds.  In both cases the discharged energy is
the same.

Could you please verify that the DISTANCE of attraction/repulsion on either
side of the gate is DIFFERENT.  

The total energy on one side of the magnetic gate EQUALS the integrated
force VS. distance !!!


In your opinion, is this "distance" difference offsetting the "force"
difference ?




At 12:02 PM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear Free Energy Men,
>
>I have experimented myself SUCCESSFULLY today the John Bedini's Magnetic
>Gate.
>The result is real and undeniable and you could test it yourself with some
>components. You have NOW a good way for OVERUNITY !!!!
>In my experiment, I have used only ferrite magnets and basic components.
>
>I am convinced now that it is possible to extract the FREE ENERGY from a
>Bedini's Magnetic gate. In my test a cylindrical magnet gently pushed into
>the gate rushs out with a thrust 2.85 greater than in the other way, without
>additional energy. IT WORKS !!!!!
>
>I have put schemes, tests results and all informations that you need to build
>a successfull experiment of this Magnetic Gate in my Web server at : 
>
>http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Truly,
>
>Jean-Louis Naudin
>Email : JNaudin509 aol.com
>my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm
>
>Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
>Home_Page</A>
><A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509 aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 11:54:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA29775 for billb@eskimo.com; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:54:23 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:54:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Envelope-From: WBahmann compuserve.com  Wed Mar  5 11:53:56 1997
Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA29662 for <vortex-l eskimo.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515)
	id OAA14040; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:53:13 -0500
Old-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:20:23 -0500
From: Wolfram Bahmann <WBahmann compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Nieper at Temple Univ.
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <199703051453_MC2-1222-2EDD compuserve.com>
X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I refer to the comment by Norman Horwood and Robert G. Flower,

Of course Dr. Nieper will not show the TESTATIKA running. The so-called
ML-converter of the Linden community near Bern in Switzerland is
shown since years now on video only. They do not want to tell people
outside thier group about the principle. Although serious physicists
checked
the apparatus and acknowledged its endless 3 kW net output with NO input.

Nieper still again promotes the Meyer device, although Meyer did not have
a good press during the last months. As member of Nieper's association I 
learned via an abstract in the last member newsletter that Meyer sent him
new promises (paper only) and Nieper use to cite such things directly
instead of longing for the proof.

Concerning the Crestview Aerospace company of Florida, Nieper was asked
to consult the CEO in implementing vacuum field energy technology into
the turbofan propulsion engines. As far as I know, Nieper never was able to
demonstrate any claim before a group of impartial engineers/physicists.
The water splitting with o/u efficiency is strongly believed in - but to
date
there are theories and claims distributed by him the only reality.

Personally, I'm certain that fracturing water for fuel purposes will be
possible
one day, but I would invite people to see the reality of such claims not
before
it really will happen, even in a demo kit.

Here is a hint of what IS REAL concerning the use of water for fuel
processing -
no o/u but nevertheless highly interesting. Have a look to the URL:
http://energie.keng.de/~pace/eititec1.htm
search for text label: Production of Fuel Mixtures

Regards,

Wolfram Bahmann      
wbahmann compuserve.com       fax: Int+49/ 2443-8221
Institute for New Energy - Intl. Committee
http://www.padrak.com/ine
Planetary Association for Clean Energy - EuroSecretariat
http://energie.keng.de/~pace

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 12:12:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA27856; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:44:31 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:44:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
Message-Id: <199703051939.LAA00531 shell.skylink.net>
Subject: Antigravity Report on CNN
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:39:10 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970305092607.00c0dc5c mail.localaccess.com> from "Epitaxy" at Mar 5, 97 09:26:08 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bL1DU.0.Mo6.7qS7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4730
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Copied below is a transcipt of a recent CNN news report.
(http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9702/28/wt.04.html)

===================================================
World Today

Magnetic Field Suspends Things Without Damage

Aired February 28, 1997 - 10:39 p.m. ET 

LINDEN SOLES, CNN ANCHOR: OK, it looks pretty much
like a thousand other... 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 

(voice-over): ...scientific laboratories, but this one in the
Netherlands is attracting attention -- well, like a magnet.
Researchers testing magnetic properties discovered some
fascinating results. Objects from nuts to flowers could be 
strangely suspended in the magnetic field. 

And after they worked some bugs out, the scientists tried a grass
hopper and then a worm in the field. Even larger living creatures
were no worse for the wear after the expert. Tadpoles were
untouched. And scientists say if they could find a human small
enough or a magnet big enough, they would have the same
incredible ride. 

(END VIDEOTAPE) 
======================================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 13:15:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08615; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:00:56 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:00:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: "Soft Beta" or "Betaless" Fission of Palladium?
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:00:23 +0000
Message-ID: <19970305210021.AAA13046 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"eDnLg2.0.W62.6yT7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4731
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

If a reaction such as: (1H1*) + 46Pd106 = 23V53 + 24Cr54 + 27 Mev occurred,
since the 23V53 emits a 3.44 Mev beta plus a gamma in less than 2 minutes
and goes to stable 24Cr53, is it possible that during the fissioning
interval that the excited nucleus can eject the stable 24Cr53 isotope along
with a low energy electron, and the stable 24Cr54 without even forming the
unstable 23V53?

(1H1*) or (1H2*) is the proposed "small hydrogen or deuterium atom" formed
with a light negative electron from the proposed light electron-positron
pair production.

Might this be possible for other species where the beta decay time is in
seconds to a few minutes?

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 13:21:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA11588; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:02:16 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:02:16 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:58:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970305145837_-937227919 emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Resent-Message-ID: <"XQj8O1.0.wq2.NzT7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4732
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Shades of the Johnson motor and the TOMI device!  Scott Little, Dave Clifton
and I looked at these mechanisms in detail once, in the lab, and came to the
following conclusion.  As you approach the magnetic gate with your little
train car or whatever, you are subtly pushing up a magnetic hill without
noticing it.  Then when you reach the point at which the gate grabs the
object and flings it across the room in its magnetic downhill run, you cannot
help but be amazed.  But put it in a circle and soon it is clear that it
won't keep going.  The slow climb up the magnetic hill can't be overcome by
the dramatic downhill slide.

Hal Puthoff

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 13:37:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA10549; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:16:32 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:16:32 -0800 (PST)
Date: 05 Mar 97 16:14:18 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Cold fusion at ANS meeting
Message-ID: <970305211417_72240.1256_EHB127-3 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"bohkL1.0.la2.kAU7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4733
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

The American Nuclear Society (ANS) will have a conference on June 1 - 5 in
Orlando, Florida. There will be a cold fusion session on Wednesday, June 4,
"Low Energy Nuclear Reactions." It will feature a three-man panel discussion:
Miley, Hora and Patterson.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 16:50:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA09232; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:39:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:39:26 -0800 (PST)
From: bpaddock execpc.com (Bob Paddock)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise (Can improve S/N Ratio)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 19:37:27 -0500
Reply-To: bpaddock execpc.com
Message-ID: <HHhHzUQy8o0H092yn execpc.com>
References: <970304111955_-836793160 emout03.mail.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <970304111955_-836793160 emout03.mail.aol.com>
Lines: 17
Resent-Message-ID: <"KhcJ62.0.6G2.w8X7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4734
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In article <970304111955_-836793160 emout03.mail.aol.com>, you wrote:
>Mitchell Swartz asks:
>
><<Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.  
>Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
>published paper.>>

Look at the references on my web site in the file called
MIND9.  Adding noise to get rid of noise is not that
unusuall.

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
    http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine,
Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited,
Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 18:21:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA20530; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:06:40 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:06:40 -0800 (PST)
From: bpaddock execpc.com (Bob Paddock)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 20:21:15 -0500
Reply-To: bpaddock execpc.com
Message-ID: <LwhHzUQy8QkY092yn execpc.com>
References: <970305145837_-937227919 emout11.mail.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <970305145837_-937227919 emout11.mail.aol.com>
Lines: 19
Resent-Message-ID: <"N46jH.0.h05.eQY7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4736
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


>Shades of the Johnson motor and the TOMI device!  Scott Little, Dave Clifton
>and I looked at these mechanisms in detail once, in the lab, and came to the
>following conclusion.  As you approach the magnetic gate with your little
>train car or whatever, you are subtly pushing up a magnetic hill without
>noticing it.  Then when you reach the point at which the gate grabs the
>object and flings it across the room in its magnetic downhill run, you cannot
>help but be amazed.  But put it in a circle and soon it is clear that it
>won't keep going.  The slow climb up the magnetic hill can't be overcome by
>the dramatic downhill slide.

Any one ever build the See-Saw version of the TOMI?

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine,
Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited,
Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 18:23:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA20509; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:06:36 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:06:36 -0800 (PST)
From: bpaddock execpc.com (Bob Paddock)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Cc: vortex-l mail.eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise, GPS, HTSC
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 20:01:54 -0500
Reply-To: bpaddock execpc.com
Message-ID: <CehHzUQy8MUX092yn execpc.com>
References: <970304164900_72240.1256_EHB91-1 CompuServe.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970304164900_72240.1256_EHB91-1 CompuServe.COM>
Lines: 22
Resent-Message-ID: <"67zgj.0.205.YQY7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4735
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>     Some months back someone on this forum (I think) explained how addition
>     of a small amount of noise to a signal could make it more accurate in
>     the long run.
>
>I don't remember if I mentioned this back then, but the Global Positioning
>Satellite (GPS) signals use this technique. They introduce "fake" noise from a
>random number generator. Not only does it improve accuracy, it helps impede
>real noise and enemy signal jamming. I don't understand the mathematics of the
>technique.

Analog Devices recently came out with a application note on
this subject, if you really want to get into the math.  It
is called "Dither" in some applications such as Analog To
Digital conversions.

-- 
For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                   //www.usachoice.net/bpaddock
Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine,
Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited,
Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
:

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 18:54:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05727; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:40:01 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:40:01 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:39:43 -0800
Message-Id: <199703060239.SAA20302 Au.oro.net>
X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien)
Subject: Conference on Fundamental Structure of Universe
Resent-Message-ID: <"dcZe21.0.PP1.0wY7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4737
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dear Vortexians;

A number of you are aware that I have been working on some notions about the
structure of the universe from a fundamental perspective.  And a few of you
have likely read some of the threads on the new.theories or the sci.astro
newsgroups or elsewhere.  I wanted to formally let you know that I am
organizing this conference with Ray Tomes, whom you also may have read.

So far, we have about a dozen speakers and will probably have an attendence
of about 50 people it seems.  The topics are not on target with the goals of
vortex, directly.  but the goals of the conference are to set up some formal
structures and to put forward equations and observations and descriptions of
the universe.  Included will be formal derivations of QM and of GR from one
aether theory that I am working on.  There will be derivations of the masses
of proton, electron and neutrons to the CODATA accuracies.  There will be
many many interesting derivations that you will find no where else I am
willing to wager because the people that have formally worked on a number of
these theories are aware of this and are talking about coming, or are
already committed to coming.

Attendance and papers so far are coming from the US, UK, Japan, New Zealand,
and many others are contemplating.

We will have at least one paper presenting some of the work of Keely and
others, but are not likely interested in getting into discussions on OU.  We
are interested in hammering down fundamental principles and discussing hard
evidence in good experiments.  As far as speculation is concerned, this is
not going to be a mainstream conference.  But the quality of the papers is
going to be high.

If there is interest in attending this conference, or if someone thinks they
have a paper that would fit and would like to speak, please contact me.  I
will answer some questions and if there is a lot of interest will post an
invitation form describing all of the conference.

Alternately, you can visit the web site of Ray Tomes at 

rtomes kcbbs.gen.nz (Ray Tomes)

And look at the information for yourself.  He will have a registration form
up soon, as I just sent it to him tonight.

The location will be in Nevada City / Grass Valley, CA.  This is about an
hour outside of Sacramento and 3 hours from San Francisco, 2.5 from Oakland
and 1.5 from Reno airports.  I have arranged for lodging right on down to
free camping at some homes, so if you can afford a plane ticket and a few
nights food, then you ought to be able to make it if you are intereseted.

Let me know, and make your reservations soon if you are interested.  And let
us know ASAP so that we can finalize the arrangements for the conference
room size.  

Thanks, Ross Tessien







From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 20:07:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA14778; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:50:59 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:50:59 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:47:27 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703060347.VAA27362 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Vacuum pump
Resent-Message-ID: <"iBhH-1.0.jc3.XyZ7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4739
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

You mean Cole Parmer...not Graingers.

Yes that looks pretty good.  If yr budget can stand it, perhaps a new one is
worth the money...that way you WILL get the advertised performance.  With a
used one you never know and mechanical vacuum pumps don't tend to age well
unless they are installed in one place and never turned off.

Note an odditity on the max vacuum spec.  It says 10^-2mm in the table but
says 10^-4 in the text IF you use their special oil.  In my experience,
10^-2 is about what you get normally...and you can take it to 10^-4 with a
cold trap.

but 10^-2 is good enuf...at least for 99% of the stuff you'll want to do.


Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 20:16:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA03482; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:00:40 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:00:40 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:59:39 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703060359.VAA11618 dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall)
Subject: Re: Nieper at Temple Univ. [was Re: More Meyer]
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"kstzR1.0.Ks.a5a7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4740
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

2/5/97

I attended the Cyril Smith lecture at Temple last week.  They are voice 
recording all four of these lectures, but not videotaping them.  I'm 
sure anyone could obtain a copy easily and cheaply from them.

RWW

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 20:16:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA14350; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:43:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:43:14 -0800
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:42:48 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703060342.VAA26819 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Bedini's Magnetic Gate
Resent-Message-ID: <"hYHip.0.4W3.HrZ7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4738
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

As Puthoff said, this experiment is a variant of the TOMI device.  The
magnetic pole arrangements are identical...the shape of the magnets is
different.  Here is the report we generated on the TOMI device:

TOMI DEVICE ENERGY BALANCE TEST
Scott Little
EarthTech Int'l
Austin TX 78759

A TOMI track was constructed according to instructions provided by the
inventor, Pat Harris.  This device consists of two cylindrical magnets fixed
on opposite sides of an inclined track and an identical cylindrical magnet
that serves as a roller on the track.  In operation, the roller is placed at
the lower end of the track even with the ends of the track magnets and given
the slightest nudge upwards.  The roller then races up the track between the
track magnets and travels beyond their upper ends with significant kinetic
energy. 

Measurements were made of the energy imparted to the roller by the track and
the energy required to place the roller at the beginning of the track.
These two quantities were found to be identical within the precision of the
measurement.

Apparatus

The track and roller magnets were each assembled from 10 annular ceramic
magnets (Radio Shack type) encased in heat shrink tubing.

A long straight ramp (35" long, 5" wide) was constructed from
furniture-grade plywood which provides a very smooth surface.  The track
magnets were clamped to this ramp near its center.

Procedure

For the energy output measurements, this ramp was propped up at a known
angle, typically 4-10 degrees. The roller magnet was carefully introduced to
the lower end of the track and pushed very slowly upwards past the neutral
force point which is located very near the point where the center of the
roller is even with the lower end of the track magnets.  Once the roller has
been nudged past this point, it takes off and rolls up the ramp past the
upper ends of the track magnets.  The highest point reached by the roller
was recorded in each test.

Several tests were made at 4 different track angles.  In each case, the
highest point the roller reached was taken as the height value for that
track angle.  The total length of the roll varied between 5" and 10" along
the track.  The sine of the track angle was used to compute the height gain
for each test.  The roller magnet was accurately weighed and the output
energy was computed by:

				E = mgh

where m is the roller mass, g is the acceleration due to gravity, and h is
the vertical height gain that occurred during the roll.

The input energy was measured by numerically integrating the product of
force and distance while moving the roller magnet to the starting point of
the track from a distant location on the entrance side of the track from the
(6" away from the starting point). The force vs location data for this
integration was obtained with a fixture that held the roller on the track at
a specific location.  This fixture captured the roller in a confined space
which allowed a very small amount of rolling movement to occur.  With the
roller thus contained at a known location along the path towards the
starting point of the TOMI track, the ramp was tilted until the angle was
found that generated the necessary gravitational force resultant (in the
track direction) to balance the magnetic repulsion force.  The sine of the
track angle was used to compute the force resultant.  These force
determinations were made at 1/2" intervals over the first four inches, 1/4"
intervals over the next inch, and 1/8" intervals over the last inch of the path.

Results

The output energy measurements:

track angle (degrees)	                  E (millijoules)
	4.86					31.8 
	6.07					33.0
	8.73					34.0
	5.05					32.2

The mean output energy was 32.8 millijoules and the observed standard
deviation was .001 millijoules...about 3% relative.

The input energy measurement consisted of 18 separate data points taken as
described above.  The sum of F*dx was 32.9 millijoules.  Since this
procedure was conducted only once, an observed standard deviation cannot be
computed.  However, an estimate of the error in determining the correct
track angle for each location along the path indicates that the relative
error in the integration result is probably about 2%.

The ratio of the measured output energy to the measured input energy is
0.99.  The errors in each measurement are independent and combine in
quadrature to yield an overall expected error of 3.6%.  In other words,


		Eout
              -------   =   0.99  +/- 0.0036
                Ein


Conclusion

Within the measurement precision of this experiment, the energy required to
place the roller magnet at the start of the track is equal to the energy
delivered to the roller when released from the start of the track.  

The apparent anomaly in the TOMI track is presumably due to the difficulty
one has in correctly perceiving the work done on the roller when it is
placed at the start of the track by hand.  The maximum repulsive force that
occurs as the roller is placed is only about 1/2 the weight of the roller.
Thus the roller only seems to get a little lighter as it is placed.  When
the roller is released, the output energy is dramatically demonstrated by
the motion of the roller.  As a result, the TOMI device appears to involve
an energy gain but these measurements show that it does not.

It is possible that the TOMI device exhibits a small anomalous behavior that
would not have been detected by these measurements.  With the precision
obtained in these tests, such an anomaly would have to be less than 5%
relative. 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 20:43:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA06977; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:31:00 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:31:00 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Light electrons
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 05:30:44 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <331e4e04.12286239 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970305111039.AAA24442 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970305111039.AAA24442 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"6QlwN1.0.pi1.0Ya7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4742
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:10:41 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>Thanks for the info., Robin.   BTW. What is Keelynet?
[snip]
http://www.keelynet.com


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 20:46:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA06955; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:30:51 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "Soft Beta" or "Betaless" Fission of Palladium?
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 05:30:46 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33205362.13660953 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970305210021.AAA13046 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970305210021.AAA13046 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.381
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bFJ8a1.0.bi1.tXa7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4741
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:00:23 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>(1H1*) or (1H2*) is the proposed "small hydrogen or deuterium atom" formed
>with a light negative electron from the proposed light electron-positron
>pair production.
>
>Might this be possible for other species where the beta decay time is in
>seconds to a few minutes?
>
>FJS
If we make the classical assumption that centrifugal force equals
electrostatic attractive force, then we get:

(e^2)/(4*PI*Eo*r^2) = (m*v^2)/r  

Solving for r we get

r = (e^2)/(4*PI*Eo*m*v^2)

IOW "m" is in the denominator, so small mass will lead to large r, not
small r.
Conclusion, the "shrunken hydrogen atom" is in fact much larger than the
normal one. This we already suspected from considering muon catalyzed
fusion.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 21:34:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA02065; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:24:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:24:05 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <331E54EC.52BFA1D7 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 21:23:56 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <970305100613_207919065 emout02.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"yn1Ho3.0.7W.qJb7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4744
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Puthoff aol.com wrote:
> 
> Jay Olsen comments:
> 
> ... then the conductivity of the plate
> material "swiched off" before the plates are pulled apart.
> 
>
> go for it if you can find the right material!
> 
> Hal Puthoff

I fail to see the attraction of finding a closed cycle 
casmir-force based process??? (which I doubt can even exist,
since casimir is based on conservative E-M interactions;
actually, I'm surprise Scott L has to force this idea 
onto Hal P...I would have thought the other way around,
if anything :-)

After all, we don't spend time worrying about how to put
the tree back together after we burn the wood! 

The vacuum fluctuation energy is a natural energy resource.
As with other such abundant resources (coal, uranium, etc), you
simply worry about tapping it in a way that gives a net
energy yield.



-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar  5 21:35:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA00779; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:08:50 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:08:50 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <331E5150.6201DD56 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 21:08:32 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703041438.JAA21517 spectre.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"orMB52.0.5C.X5b7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4743
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert I. Eachus wrote:
> 
>    Scott Little (little eden.com) said:
> 
>   > Casimir force interactions with the ZPF are
>   > conservative....
> 
>    There is a variation on this proposal that will produce net
> energy.  Imagine two half disks.  Start with them aligned.  Extract
> Casmir force energy from moving them closer together. 
> Now rotate one of the half disks [out of alignment]. 
> Move disks apart, repeat.
> 

Brain teaser for the day: Make the half discs be + and - charged
plates, and replace "asimir" by "oulomb" above. So, you 
have designed a machine for extracting infinite energy from
electrostatics. What is the catch?

SPOILER: the electrostatic force comes from a conservative 
potential energy. Therefore it is theoretically impossible 
to extract net energy from it if the system ends up in 
the same configuration  as it starts in. If you think that 
you have done so, you
have simply made an error in your thinking, i.e. you missed the
work done by some part of the force. Agreed?

SPOILER^2: The Casimir force is also a conservative force. 
One way to see this is that it is typically derived by
considering variations in a configuration potential energy, 
and therefore always has a configuration potential associated with
it. One other way to see this is
that it can be derived useing stochastic electrodynamics, 
which is an entirely classical electromagnetic theory, and
therefore is energy conserving.

COROLLARY: attempts to design a scheme for extracting net vacuum
energy using the casimir force via a _periodic_ change
in configurations are doomed to failure---they are truly no
different than trying to design perpetual motion schemes in
other classical conservative theories like electrostatics and
mechanics using newtonian gravity and hookeian springs.

If you are to design such a "perpetual motion machine" using
the casimir force, you must therefore do one of two things: either 

(a) openly postulate that the casimir force does not
come from a conservative potential. 

But this is troubling ,
though, since the known casimir forces do in theory, and thus 
you are suggesting there are casimir forces not covered
by pre-existing theoretical derivations. But since
these non-conservative casimir forces are unkown in nature, you don't
know what form they would have and therefor reasoning about
them theoretically is ill-founded (e.g. why should they 
have the 1/d^4 dependence---that is the known conservative cas force).

or

(b) you must theoretically derive a nonconservative casimir 
force, using some trusted theory (either QED or SED), on
which you can constructively base your design. 

This will be
a trick, though, since QED and SED are generically conservative
theories (so any nonconservation would really have to 
sweep the energy discrepancy under some configurational rug; your
only hope is that it could be borrowed from some auxiliary configuration
not normally considered)


Of course, if you wish to pursue the question of nonconservative 
casimir forces experimentally, that is a separate issue. Maybe
the real casimir force would not behave as predicted. My
point is that _thought_ experiments on how to get energy out of
closed loop cycles using the standard conservative casimir force
are worthless---all you can do is make errors in such reasoning.

Those of you interested should direct your mental effort into
showing how a casimir force (= result of rejected normal modes) could
*ever be* non-conservative.

Now, it is important to note that I am not saying extracting 
useful energy from casimir forces is impossible. Indeed,
we know it is possible in principle---but only
using an irreversible cycle, like letting the plates come
together and then discarding the device. The same could of course
be done with charged plates in the Coulomb setting. Effort
towards a closed loop system seems totally wasted; one should
be considering how to do it effectively in a irreversible 
manner.



-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 04:29:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA31784; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 03:58:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 03:58:35 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Sodium-Potassium Levels in The Dead Sea
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:57:59 +0000
Message-ID: <19970306115757.AAA16986 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"T0Wq61.0.Ym7.g5h7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4745
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Found the following levels of salts in the Dead Sea. Why the 27:1 ratio of
sodium to potassium in the oceans? Great Salt Lake content?

Grams salt/100 grams liquid.

Na          Mg             K           Cl       Sample Depth (meters)

11.65      13.20          1.85        65.81         surface

10.20      16.80          1.60        67.66          120

5.50       15.99          1.68        67.30          300


Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 05:13:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA31934; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 03:59:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 03:59:40 -0800
From: JNaudin509 aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 06:59:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970306065904_-2108614784 emout01.mail.aol.com>
To: bpaddock execpc.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re : Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Resent-Message-ID: <"yeIgX3.0.uo7.h6h7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4746
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 05/03/1997 21:17:43, you wrote :

<<   The slow climb up the magnetic hill can't be overcome by
 >the dramatic downhill slide.
 
 Any one ever build the See-Saw version of the TOMI?
 
 -- 
 For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
                    http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock
 Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief,
Electromedicine,
 Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric
Limited,
 Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
  >>

Hi Bob,

I give you a patent reference of TOMI like for your information :

<<
4215330 : Permanent magnet propulsion system 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
INVENTORS:Hartman; Emil T., Detroit, MI
ASSIGNEES:Hartman; Ethel, Richmond, INHelin, Estate of; Charles, Detroit,
MIISSUED:July 29, 1980FILED:Dec. 20, 1977SERIAL NUMBER:862344FEE STATUS:INTL.
CLASS (Ed. 2):H01F 7/02; U.S. CLASS:335-306; 310-012; FIELD OF
SEARCH:310-12-14,15 ; 198-619,381 ; 335-302,306 ; AGENTS:Rhodes; Alex; 

ABSTRACT:   A permanent magnet propulsion system wherein a steel ball is
propelled up an inclined plane between two rows of permanent bar magnets,
said magnets being in spaced relationship with all north seeking poles of one
of the said rows facing in substantially the same direction and with all
south seeking poles in the other row facing in substantially the same but
opposite direction to the first of said rows. The magnetic axes of each of
the magnets of the first said row are in staggered relationship to the axes
of opposing magnets of the second said row. The magnetic field acting on the
ball is configured whereby the ball after reaching the top of the inclined
plane is able to drop from the said plane out of the field. A pair of
parallel tracks positioned between the spaced rows of magnets guide the ball
and a clamping means orient and retain the magnets.
>>

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509 aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509 aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 05:50:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA07678; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 04:59:36 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 04:59:36 -0800 (PST)
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:18:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970306071846_821481610 emout18.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise
Resent-Message-ID: <"3oUUV2.0.tt1.r-h7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4747
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Where there is stiction (sticking/friction) in a mechanical measuring
instrument, so that it fails to reach the correct indication, then the
introduction of mechanical noise or shock can transiently overcome the the
stiction and allow the instrument to come to a new rest point which may be
closer to the correct equilibrium value. If the noise is continuous and of
correct magnitude, a series of readings may result which may be greater or
lesser than the correct one, but an average of such indications may be much
closer to the correct value than would be given by the undisturbed
instrument. The averaging may be accomplished by the mechanical inertia of an
actual instrument if the noise spectrum is properly shaped, thus removing the
need to collect a long series of readings for statistical analysis. 

This is no substitute for an instrument without stiction and noise-free
measurements, as Mitchell Swartz correctly points out. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 07:14:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA16317; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 06:58:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 06:58:53 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: "Soft Beta" or "Betaless" Fission of Palladium?
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:58:05 +0000
Message-ID: <19970306145803.AAA10513 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"EuqpG.0.r-3.hkj7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4749
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:30 AM 3/6/97 +0000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

>On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:00:23 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>>(1H1*) or (1H2*) is the proposed "small hydrogen or deuterium atom" formed
>>with a light negative electron from the proposed light electron-positron
>>pair production.
>>
>>Might this be possible for other species where the beta decay time is in
>>seconds to a few minutes?
>>
>>FJS
>If we make the classical assumption that centrifugal force equals
>electrostatic attractive force, then we get:
>
>(e^2)/(4*PI*Eo*r^2) = (m*v^2)/r 

Right, But, m for the light electron is it's mo * gamma and v^2 is
approaching c^2! 
>
>Solving for r we get
>
>r = (e^2)/(4*PI*Eo*m*v^2)

Nope, r = (e^2)/ 4*pi*Eo*mo*gamma*c^2)
>
>IOW "m" is in the denominator, so small mass will lead to large r, not
>small r.

IOW "m*gamma" is in the denominator so initial small mass will lead to small
r, not large r.  <g>
>Conclusion, the "shrunken hydrogen atom" is in fact much larger than the
>normal one. This we already suspected from considering muon catalyzed
>fusion.

Wrong conclusion for "light electrons".  Also V = e/4*pi*Eo*r, thus the
"orbit" must be less than that of a regular electron. Check it out. <g>
>

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 07:20:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA14852; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 06:53:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 06:53:32 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:53:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703061453.JAA26968 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <199703042339.RAA08624 natashya.eden.com> (message from Scott Little on Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:39:55 -0600 (CST))
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"mU47P2.0.td3.hfj7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4748
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


   Scott Little asks:

  > Robert, my tenuous understanding of your geometry has
  > evaporated. In the first post you talked about rotating the plates
  > 10 degrees and pulling them apart, then you switched to 90
  > degrees.  Please describe the geometry one more time being as
  > descriptive as possible.  Leave out all the "engineering" details
  > like getting the plates close and making them tiny or spinning
  > them fast....just give me the fundamental concept in detail,
  > please.

   Hmmm.  I think I'll confuse you further.  The linear model, which
is where I started, is a lot easier to understand.

   Take two metal blocks.  Solid copper is probably best for
comprehension, but in a real device you would probably use chrome
plated aluminum. ;-)

   Hold one block above the other, then bring the blocks together
maintaing the alignment.  Gain energry from the Casmir force.  This
energy is proportional to the area of the touching faces.  (In this
experiment we bring them into contact.)

   Now slide the blocks apart instead of pulling them apart.  There
are three phases of interest.  When you first start to move the
blocks, you lose (Casmir force) energy at the edges.  You then enter a
long phase where the (net) Casmir force is acting at long distance,
centimeters or more.  Finally, when the blocks are only touching at
the edge you have another area of significant energy loss to the
Casmir force.  Note that all the energy losses here (assuming
frictionless surfaces) are proportional to the length of the edge of
the blocks.

   Now when the blocks are far enough apart for the Casmir force to be
negligable, lift the top block, bring it back into alignment and
repeat.

   In this geometry it is clear that the Casmir force can't be
conservative.  (If it scaled as inverse square it could be, but it
doesn't.)

   The rotating disk configuration is just to eliminate the need for
accelerations, etc.  And in a "real" device, you are going to have to
devote a lot of effort to avoid parasitic electromagnetic losses.

   Does this help?

					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 07:21:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA19010; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:08:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:08:48 -0800
Message-ID: <331EDE18.873 interlaced.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 10:09:12 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Sodium-Potassium Levels in The Dead Sea
References: <19970306115757.AAA16986 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"_Mxhb3.0.te4.ytj7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4750
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 

> 
> Found the following levels of salts in the Dead Sea. Why the 27:1 ratio of
> sodium to potassium in the oceans? Great Salt Lake content?
> 

Frederick, don't you have to look at the details of the biomass
inventory for these elements?  Does life go where the element is? -
or does the element wind up where the life is? - etc.  Or, does life
really matter?   Does life wind up downtown, where the lights are
brighter ------??

Frank Stenger

From JNaudin509 aol.com  Thu Mar  6 07:36:25 1997
Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA19070; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:36:09 -0800 (PST)
From: JNaudin509 aol.com
Received: (from root localhost)
	  by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0)
	  id KAA09761;
	  Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:34:24 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:34:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970306103414_1216419863 emout16.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
cc: billb eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au, john1@rand.nidlink.com
Subject: Re : Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Status: O
X-Status: 

>From : Jean-Louis Naudin
To : All 

<<From:	epitaxy LocalAccess.com (Epitaxy)
Resent-from:	vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-to:	vortex-l eskimo.com
To:	vortex-l eskimo.com

Dear Jean
I have verified that the mechanical force on one side of the gate is
stronger.

HOWEVER !!!  I have also noticed that the mechanical force on the "weak'
side of the gate reaches further out than the force on the "strong" side.

This is similar to discharging an electrical capacitor; 10 Amps for 1
second  VS. 1 Amp for 10 seconds.  In both cases the discharged energy is
the same.

Could you please verify that the DISTANCE of attraction/repulsion on either
side of the gate is DIFFERENT.  

The total energy on one side of the magnetic gate EQUALS the integrated
force VS. distance !!!


In your opinion, is this "distance" difference offsetting the "force"
difference ?

Epitaxy
>>

<<
 As you approach the magnetic gate with your little
train car or whatever, you are subtly pushing up a magnetic hill without
noticing it.  Then when you reach the point at which the gate grabs the
object and flings it across the room in its magnetic downhill run, you cannot
help but be amazed.  But put it in a circle and soon it is clear that it
won't keep going.  The slow climb up the magnetic hill can't be overcome by
the dramatic downhill slide.

Hal Puthoff
>>
<< Try putting two gates, one behind the other, and see if you get more than
 2.85 times. If so, then you should be able to put several of them around a
 circular centre tube, sort of like a particle accelerator. Then if it is
 really OU, the ferrite rod will keep accelerating 'round and 'round.
 
 
 Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
  >>

Thanks you at all, for your comments and suggestions about my experiment,

 I have tried to put two identical gates, today, the thrust is maintained
constant with a gap of 50 mm between then gates.

 After "my OVERUNITY OF ENTHUSIAM" yesterday....it's TIME FOR THINKING NOW...

 I think that the Bedini's magnetic gate is act like a nonlinear gateway for
the magnetic scalar potential energy. The best way of this magnetic gate is
to use this as a energy pump my objective is not to build a permanent
magnetic motor. I could notice that the evolution of kinetic energy of
cylindrical magnet through magnetic gate have relaxation waveform. I work on
QuickField simulation to tune finely the magnetic gate device and optimize
the efficiency. It's like a Tantale tank, the 50 mm gap must be adjust to
maintain the relaxation without additional energy. I think that it is
possible to tap free magnetic energy in non linearity zone (just after the
magnetic gate), where the magnetic flux begin to change (just after the top
of hill). The magnetic gate must act as Magnetic Energy Pump IF the speed of
the magnetic probe accelerate more than the normal run out speed. I
experiment this concept in my lab's with the dynamic magnetic compression
process. We can obtain the same result dynamicaly with the magnetic gate, to
obtain this time compression,  we need to inject little energy in the
circuit, with a coil for instance, but after regauging, I think that we
should collect more energy than the input. I work on this, stay tuned......

It's only theory, today......

As said Bob Shannon some days ago "In theory, there is no differance between
theory and practice, but in practice, there is."

I look forward to receive your comments and share the knowledge about this
subject.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509 aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509 aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 07:36:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA23129; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:24:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:24:03 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:23:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703061523.KAA27094 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <4FFFBE7E54 hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu> (olso3562@novell.uidaho.edu)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"z90Nr.0.Df5.F6k7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4751
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   Jay Olson (olso3562 novell.uidaho.edu) asked:

  >  Just one more thought.  Am I right in assuming that the Casimir 
  > force only exists between two conductors?  If this is so, could a 
  > material be used whose conductivity could be varied by some outside 
  > intervention?  If so, the energy gained when two plates (or whatever) 
  > come together could be used, then the conductivity of the plate 
  > material "swiched off" before the plates (or whatever) are pulled 
  > apart.  I hope I'm not putting my foot into my mouth again :).

    No feet involved.  Yes this is true, and if you can figure out a
use for it great.  But it would make a neat toy.  Choose some material
which goes from very poor conductor to good conductor with
temperature.  (Ceramic HT superconductors come to mind.)  Make up a
dagwood sandwich with alternating (very thin) layers of compressable
material and superconductor.  If you are really good, you can build a
ceramic with alternating SC and non-SC compressable layers.  Now drop
below Tc, and your sample will squash itself together.

   (Actually it would be interesting to measure the dimensions of a
high-Tc superconductor sample as it crossed Tc.  If the planes of the
structure are the only part that becomes SC, then the shape of the
sample should change due to the Casmir force.  If the SC is a bulk
property, any dimensional changes would only be due to temperature.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 07:53:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA19152; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:36:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:36:42 -0800 (PST)
From: JNaudin509 aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:34:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970306103414_1216419863 emout16.mail.aol.com>
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
cc: billb eskimo.com, gwatson@microtronics.com.au, john1@rand.nidlink.com
Subject: Re : Re: The BEDINI's MAGNETIC GATE is working !!!
Resent-Message-ID: <"k-3693.0.5h4.xHk7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4752
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>From : Jean-Louis Naudin
To : All 

<<From:	epitaxy LocalAccess.com (Epitaxy)
Resent-from:	vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-to:	vortex-l eskimo.com
To:	vortex-l eskimo.com

Dear Jean
I have verified that the mechanical force on one side of the gate is
stronger.

HOWEVER !!!  I have also noticed that the mechanical force on the "weak'
side of the gate reaches further out than the force on the "strong" side.

This is similar to discharging an electrical capacitor; 10 Amps for 1
second  VS. 1 Amp for 10 seconds.  In both cases the discharged energy is
the same.

Could you please verify that the DISTANCE of attraction/repulsion on either
side of the gate is DIFFERENT.  

The total energy on one side of the magnetic gate EQUALS the integrated
force VS. distance !!!


In your opinion, is this "distance" difference offsetting the "force"
difference ?

Epitaxy
>>

<<
 As you approach the magnetic gate with your little
train car or whatever, you are subtly pushing up a magnetic hill without
noticing it.  Then when you reach the point at which the gate grabs the
object and flings it across the room in its magnetic downhill run, you cannot
help but be amazed.  But put it in a circle and soon it is clear that it
won't keep going.  The slow climb up the magnetic hill can't be overcome by
the dramatic downhill slide.

Hal Puthoff
>>
<< Try putting two gates, one behind the other, and see if you get more than
 2.85 times. If so, then you should be able to put several of them around a
 circular centre tube, sort of like a particle accelerator. Then if it is
 really OU, the ferrite rod will keep accelerating 'round and 'round.
 
 
 Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
  >>

Thanks you at all, for your comments and suggestions about my experiment,

 I have tried to put two identical gates, today, the thrust is maintained
constant with a gap of 50 mm between then gates.

 After "my OVERUNITY OF ENTHUSIAM" yesterday....it's TIME FOR THINKING NOW...

 I think that the Bedini's magnetic gate is act like a nonlinear gateway for
the magnetic scalar potential energy. The best way of this magnetic gate is
to use this as a energy pump my objective is not to build a permanent
magnetic motor. I could notice that the evolution of kinetic energy of
cylindrical magnet through magnetic gate have relaxation waveform. I work on
QuickField simulation to tune finely the magnetic gate device and optimize
the efficiency. It's like a Tantale tank, the 50 mm gap must be adjust to
maintain the relaxation without additional energy. I think that it is
possible to tap free magnetic energy in non linearity zone (just after the
magnetic gate), where the magnetic flux begin to change (just after the top
of hill). The magnetic gate must act as Magnetic Energy Pump IF the speed of
the magnetic probe accelerate more than the normal run out speed. I
experiment this concept in my lab's with the dynamic magnetic compression
process. We can obtain the same result dynamicaly with the magnetic gate, to
obtain this time compression,  we need to inject little energy in the
circuit, with a coil for instance, but after regauging, I think that we
should collect more energy than the input. I work on this, stay tuned......

It's only theory, today......

As said Bob Shannon some days ago "In theory, there is no differance between
theory and practice, but in practice, there is."

I look forward to receive your comments and share the knowledge about this
subject.

Truly,

Jean-Louis Naudin
Email : JNaudin509 aol.com
my Overunity WEB Server : http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm

Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JNaudin509/index.htm">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:JNaudin509 aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 09:13:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA06942; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:00:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:00:26 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:00:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703061700.MAA27353 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <331E5150.6201DD56 math.ucla.edu> (message from Barry Merriman on Wed, 05 Mar 1997 21:08:32 -0800)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"JFLZj1.0.Ni1.fWl7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4753
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   Barry Merriman (barry math.ucla.edu) said:

  > Brain teaser for the day: Make the half discs be + and - charged
  > plates, and replace "asimir" by "oulomb" above. So, you have
  > designed a machine for extracting infinite energy from
  > electrostatics. What is the catch?

    The catch is that the Coulomb force scales as the inverse square
of the distance, Casmir by inverse fourth power.

  > SPOILER: the electrostatic force comes from a conservative
  > potential energy. Therefore it is theoretically impossible to
  > extract net energy from it if the system ends up in the same
  > configuration as it starts in. If you think that you have done so,
  > you have simply made an error in your thinking, i.e. you missed
  > the work done by some part of the force. Agreed?

  True.

  > SPOILER^2: The Casimir force is also a conservative force.  One
  > way to see this is that it is typically derived by considering
  > variations in a configuration potential energy, and therefore
  > always has a configuration potential associated with it. One other
  > way to see this is that it can be derived useing stochastic
  > electrodynamics, which is an entirely classical electromagnetic
  > theory, and therefore is energy conserving.

  True, but there is a very special gotcha here.  You are not creating
energy, the energy already exists in the vaccuum.  No vaccuum energy,
no Casmir force.  As long as the energy you get disappears from the
vaccuum, the system is conservative.  As long as entropy keeps
increasing, thermodynamics is also satisfied.

  > COROLLARY: attempts to design a scheme for extracting net vacuum
  > energy using the casimir force via a _periodic_ change in
  > configurations are doomed to failure---they are truly no different
  > than trying to design perpetual motion schemes in other classical
  > conservative theories like electrostatics and mechanics using
  > newtonian gravity and hookeian springs.

  Wrong.  We use a lot of systems every day where a periodic change in
configurations produces useful energy, such as electric motors.  Of
course, you need an external source of power.  In the case of a car,
you have a heat engine which gets the energy from combustion, with an
electric motor from the mains.  With a ZPE device, the energy comes
from the virtual photons.  (When they produce work, they drop in
frequency, so less energy is returned to the vaccuum.)  As long as the
thermodyamic and entropy gods are served there is no way to argue from
first principles that such a device can't work.

  > If you are to design such a "perpetual motion machine" using
  > the casimir force, you must therefore do one of two things...

    No such argument.  The Casmir effect is a crowbar that can be used
to pry open the door to a huge reserve of energy.  The math works,
check it yourself with the (simpler) model I just posted.  I won't
attempt to post integrals in ASCII.  The trick is to get the
engineering right.

    For those who suggested stacking layers--it can be done, but
the engineering problems are tremendous.  Moving rotating disks--even
along their axis without distortion is going to be tough.  And at the
clearances you need to get any energy, very tough.

    Incidently, cylinders wouldn't work at all from an engineering
point of view.  Such a system would be extremely sensitive to
temperature.  A tenth of a degree warmer cylinder would cause contact
and failure.


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 09:33:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01365; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:20:16 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:20:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970306171858.0067e134 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 12:18:58 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Noise (Can improve S/N Ratio)
Resent-Message-ID: <"Z96tD2.0.EL.Cpl7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4754
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This noise discussion began with:

  "Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.  
Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
published paper.

At 11:19 AM 3/4/97 -0500, Hal wrote:
>Mitchell Swartz asks:
>
><<Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.  
>Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
>published paper.>>
>
>This is a well-developed field known as "stochastic resonance." There are a
>number of papers in the literature as to how adding noise to certain kinds of
>signals can actually improve signal-to-noise ratio.  For starters I recommend
>F. Moss and K. Wiesenfeld, "The benefits of background noise," Sci. Am., p.
>66, Aug 1995 and references therein.  Its subtitle reads:
>
>"Stochastic resonance, the phenomenon by which background noise boosts weak
>signals, is creating a buzz in physics, biology and engineering."
>
>I also have many technical references if you need more.  See, e.g., Phys Rev
>Lett., vol. 77, p. 4098 (1996); Nature, vol. 365, p. 337 (1993).
>
>Hal Puthoff
>
>

 Although, invoking this subject is interesting,
IMHO these references do not demonstrate that noise improves signal
detection accuracy
for those attempting to achieve semiquantitative measurements in purported
over-unity systems.

 
  What is stochastic resonance?
 Stochastic resonance occurs in some nonlinear systems, and is noted in
select cases 
of detection where a signal is below the sensitive sensitivity of the detector.
Stochastic resonance involves the occasional detection of weak periodic 
signals located in a noise spectrum in some select nonlinear systems.
  The impact of the noise
and the weak periodic signal is to enhance the detection of the signal.
 From a power-spectrum point-of-view, the impact of the random fluctuations
(noise)
 is that coherence of a weak periodic signal may be optimized in some cases. 

  This effect is important to biological neural systems including hearing, 
and perhaps other types of near-threshold senses. 
It may also be important to magnetic flux driven sensitive detection devices.


 But does this apply to cold fusion, or other over unit systems? 
  Apparently no, on at least two (2) counts.  

   Anybody here think of any more?

 1. Excess heat, if and when it exists, is not AC.
Presumably over the times of examination, the output in a large volume will
appear
 as something other than a weak periodic signal. The very essence of excess heat
is that it is NOT AC.

 2. The thermometry is not a problem.  There is NO
sensitivity problems for either thermocouples, thermistors, 
or other temperature measurements devices.  If the excess heat is there
say at 100 milliwatts, it will definitely be detected.  There is no
threshold sensitivity in such thermometry whatsoever.


  In summary, stochastic resonance is real, but does NOT appear to apply to
these 
systems on a large scale (sizes on the order of centimeters).
  Stochastic resonance, is real in certain subthreshhold conditions
where sensors have sensitivities below the signal level, and as
such is, IMHO, not applicable to cold fusion or other purported over-unity
devices. 


 IMHO noise is the enemy of good data in this field, and should be measured
in each
experiment.  Furthermore, in OU devices, as I have shown elsewhere,
driving a purported o/u system with energies on the order of, or less
than, the energy in the noise, can give erroneous "over unity" results, if
the results do not include a measurement of the noise.  
Such artifact may make the appearance of "excess heat", but it is probably
not, and if it is, it is clouded in the noise itself.

  Hope that helps.
   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 09:35:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01430; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:20:40 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:20:40 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970306181124.00772aa8 bahnhof.se>
X-Sender: david bahnhof.se
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 18:19:13 +0100
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: David Jonsson <David Bahnhof.Se>
Subject: St. Petersburg Proceedings 
Cc: gravitics1 aol.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Resent-Message-ID: <"8tXpo.0.FM.bpl7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4755
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hello all

Look below. Price is $60. Contact Alex if interested. I have a copy so you
can ask me questions.

David

......................................................................

The Proceedings of intenational scientific conference "New Ideas in
Natural Sciences, St.-Petersburg, Russia, June 1996, English version,
Copyright by Anatoly P. Smirnov and Alexander V. Frolov, 1996, ISBN
5-86161-25-8, published by "PiK" Publishing Company, St.-Petersburg,
Russia, 642 pages, risography.

Contents of the book:
                                        Contents

     Foreword
                                                   3

1. Contemporary Problems in Physics. Theoretical Investigations.
Economic Effects of Space Energy Technologies (SET) on Individuals
and Society,   Gruber Josef                                           5

Editorial "On the History of the Event"                              14

Magneto-Voltaic Technology, A Solid State Approach for Tapping
the Zero-Point  Energy Field    (ZPE), Zielinsky A.                  15

Researches on New Technologies, Address List                         34

The Structure of Problems and Misconceptions in Modern Physics.
Methods for Solution, Possibilities and Consequences, Smirnov A.P.   35

On Physical Space Structure and New Interaction in Nature,
Baurov Yu.A.                                                         45

The Hypothesis and The Equations of The Unified Matter Field,
Nassikas  A.A.                                                       61

Classical and Modified Electrodynamics, Zhilin P.A.                  73

Tetra Space Co-ordinates (A tetrahedron-based system of space
co-ordinates),  Hasslberger Josef                                    83

Galilei and Relativity Principle,  Chirkov A.G.                      87

A New Theory of the Unified Physical Field, Groshev  V.L.            91

Physical essence of gravity constant and its consequences,
Vasil'ev V.V.                                                        93

The Ether Model as Result of the New Empirical Conception,
Mishin A.M.                                                          95

De Broglie Wave Physics, Butusov Kyrill P.                          105

Expansion of Bor's Quantum Postulates, Klyushin  J.G.               117

The Concept of Mass Process, Frolov A.V.                            123

Thermal Electromagnetic Wave Generator, Lebed B.M, Petrov S.A.      135

Saha-Equation-Undeniable Evidence for the Physical Nature of Chemical
Bonding, Mueller M.                                                 141

Quantum Electron Hydrodynamics Under Charge Neutralization Conditions,
Sanin  A.L.                                                         151

Energies, Impulses, and Forces Arising at Moving Electric Charges in
Vacuum, Fogel V.A., Shepsenvol M.A.                                 157

Formula for Relatively Stable Carbon Clusters, Volkov A.            167

On the Anisotropy of Electron, Efimov A.A.                          173

Kozyrev-Dirak Emanation Method of Detecting and Interaction With
Matter, Shakhparonov  I.                                            175

Non-dissipative Closed Electrical Current Process in Normal-State
(Non-superconductive) Electroconductive Media,  Turchaninov G.S.,
Turchaninov I.G.                                                    189

A proposed Experiment of Direct Detecting of The Vector Potential
Within  Classical Electrodynamics,  Onoochin V.                     213

Torsion Fields and Their Experimental Manifestations,
Akimov A.E., Shipov G.I.                                            221

A Generalized Formula for the Lorentz Force Density and Maxwell
Equations,      Klyushin J.G.                                       251

2. New Energetics. Practical Results.

Cold Fusion Research: Models and Potential Benefits,  Hurtak J.J.,
Bailey  P.G.                                                        261

Use of Regauging and Multivalved Potentials to Achieve Overunity EM
Engines: Concepts and Specific Engine Examples,  Bearden  T.E.      277

About the Local Tapping of Energy, Galeczki G. and Marquardt P.     299

The Secret of The "Cold Fusion", Kanarev  Ph.M.                     305

A New Direction In The Energetics, Becklemeshev J.A.,
Becklemesheva G.J.                                                  311

Microscopic Acceleration Mechanism The Cold Fusion in Deuterated
Materials,      Chicea D.                                           315

Free Energy Generation by Water Decomposition in Highly Efficiency
Electrolytic Process, Goryachev I.V.                                319

A New Beginning for Thermodynamics, Hasslberger J.                  325

Thermodynamic Principles and Problems of Self-Organizing in Physical
Systems,        Berezovsky A.                                       331

Energy Transformation Dynamics,  Mikhailovsky  G.A.                 349

Mechanisms of Energy Inversion and Self-Organization in Real Systems,
Smirnov A.P. and Smirnov A.A.                                       355

On the Second Beginning of Thermodynamics, Buinov G.N.              359

N.Tesla's Unique Experiments in Colorado, Ignatyev G.F.             365

The Work is Created by Means of Potential Field, Frolov A.V.        371

Thermal Engine With a Single Heat Source,  Serogodsky  A.           381

3. Gravitation and adjacent technologies

Free Fall of Elementary Particles: On Moving Bodies and Their
Electromagnetic Forces, Rognerud  N.                                389

Construction an Engine for Free Space on the Base of a Pondemotor
Effect,         Ignatyev G.F.                                       407

Experimental Fundamentals for Determination of the Nature of
Gravitation     Interaction Carrier, Simakov A.                     411

Gravitation Results from Interaction of Substance with Gradient of
Ether   Density, Shulgin V.G.                                       415

The Quantum Gravitation, Shpakov P.D.                               419

A Gyroscope Video Workshop Set Up to Observe & Determine Mechanical
Gyro    Properties of Forces, Torques & Motions,  McCabe F.J.       421

Rotating Hemisphere: Center of Mass Shift,  Jeong E.                429

Diffraction of Gravitational Field, Butusov K.P.                    451

About Experimental Proofs of Gravitational Sun to Earth Influence
by Screening    of the Part of Inflowing Surrounding Space Neutrinos,
Vinogradova M.G.,Khod'kov A.E.                                      457

Gravitational Technology, Uspensky G.R.                             461

Possibility for the Existence of Anti-Gravity and the Complete Parity
Breaking of Gravity: Evidence from Free-Fall Experiment Using a
Spinning  Gyro, Hayasaka H., Tanaka H., Hashida T., Chubachi T.,
Sugiyama T.                                                         467

The Concept of Gravitation, Frolov A.V.                             481

The Antigravitation Force in The Balanced Rotating System,
Kashuba V.                                                          491

Compression of Standing Waves, Rhythm-dynamics and Third Condition
of Rest, Ivanov Yu.N.                                               495

The Beginning of Experimental Gravitonics, Poliakov S.M. and
Poliakov O.S.                                                       529

Principles and Bases of the Support-less Movement and Realisation
of it in a Nature, Belostotsky Y.G.                                 537

The Inertial Propulsion Drives, Shukalov B.D.                       545

4. Researches of Space and Time

The Initial Principles of N.A.Kozyrev's Causal Mechanics,
Shikhobalov L.S.                                                    553

Equivalence of Mass and Time, Abian A.                              559

On the Question About Analytical Methods Those Reflect  the
"Substance-Space-Time" Unity of the Nature in the Laws of Natural
Science, and About Main Properties of This Unity, Goriachko J.G.    569

Experiments on the Change of the Direction and Rate of Time Motion,
Chernobrov V.A.                                                     575

The Energy Anisotropy of Space, Efimov A.A., Shpitalnaya A.A.       583

On Some Properties of the Physical Time and Space, Veinik A.I.      587

To a Question on Reserves of Information Interaction in a Nature,
Stavitsky V.I.                                                      599

Generalized Golden Section and the Time Theory, Timashev A.R.       605

Information-Energy Model of Matter and Universe, Plykin V.D.        615

The United Holography Information Theory of the Universe,
Dvorin G.V.                                                         621

The Lorentz Component of the Cosmological Red Shift, Sharipov M.R.  625

Conclusion                                                          635

Resolution                                                          636

Price for book is USD 60 (posting included).

Alexander V. Frolov
Production Editor

P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024, Russia
alex frolov.spb.ru

--------------------------------------------

David Jonsson  Phone +46-18-24 51 52           Fax +46-8-681 20 66
Uppsala        Cellular GSM +46-706-339487     E-mail david bahnhof.se
Sweden         Web: http://bahnhof.se/~david/  Postgiro 499 40 54-7

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 09:38:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA09943; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:21:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:21:03 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970306171935.0069dd1c world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 12:19:35 -0500
To: bpaddock execpc.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Noise (Can improve S/N Ratio)
Resent-Message-ID: <"pgVCQ.0.GR2.zpl7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4756
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:37 PM 3/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In article <970304111955_-836793160 emout03.mail.aol.com>, you wrote:
>>Mitchell Swartz asks:
>>
>><<Please prove that inserting noise improves signal detection accuracy.  
>>Please use any equation, derivation, or citation to serious peer review
>>published paper.>>
>
>Look at the references on my web site in the file called
>MIND9.  Adding noise to get rid of noise is not that
>unusuall.
>
>-- 
>For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at:
>    http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock
>Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine,
>Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited,
>Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment.
>
>


 Appreciate Bob's URLs and his interesting web site, however,
IMHO these references do not demonstrate that noise improves signal
detection accuracy
for those attempting to achieve semiquantitative measurements in purported
over-unity systems.

 Stochastic resonance occurs in some nonlinear systems, and is noted in
select cases 
of detection where a signal is below the sensitive sensitivity of the detector.
Stochastic resonance involves the occasional detection of weak periodic 
signals located in a noise spectrum in some select nonlinear systems.
  The impact of the noise
and the weak periodic signal is to enhance the detection of the signal.
 From a power-spectrum point-of-view, the impact of the random fluctuations
(noise)
 is that coherence of a weak periodic signal may be optimized in some cases. 
 As Bob correctly points out, this effect is important to biological neural
systems including hearing, and perhaps other types of near-threshold senses. 
It may also be important to magnetic flux driven sensitive detection devices.


 But does this apply to cold fusion, or other over unit systems? 
  Apparently no, on at least two (2) counts.  

 1. Excess heat, if and when it exists, is not AC.
Presumably over the times of examination, the output in a large volume will
appear
 as something other than a weak periodic signal. The very essence of excess heat
is that it is NOT AC.

 2. The thermometry is not a problem.  There is NO
sensitivity problems for either thermocouples, thermistors, 
or other temperature measurements devices.  If the excess heat is there
say at 100 milliwatts, it will definitely be detected.  There is no
threshold sensitivity in such thermometry whatsoever.

  In summary, stochastic resonance is real, but does NOT appear to apply to
these 
systems on a large scale (sizes on the order of centimeters).
  Stochastic resonance, is real in certain subthreshhold conditions
where sensors have sensitivities below the signal level, and as
such is, IMHO, not applicable to cold fusion or other purported over-unity
devices. 

   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 11:10:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA13275; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:57:56 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:57:56 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <331F13CC.6CC3 interlaced.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 13:58:20 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703061453.JAA26968 spectre.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"GcXr42.0.JF3.nEn7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4758
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert I. Eachus wrote:
> 

>    Now slide the blocks apart instead of pulling them apart.  There
> are three phases of interest.  When you first start to move the
> blocks, you lose (Casmir force) energy at the edges.  You then enter a
> long phase where the (net) Casmir force is acting at long distance,
> centimeters or more.

You lose me here, Robert.  Consider below:

	_________________________________
       |	stator			 |
       |_______________>_________________| > small edge hor. comp.
		         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
		         __________________<______________
		       < |       armature  ------->	  |
			 |________________________________|

It seems to me that even though the edges are well into the main area,
there will be a "fringing" horizontal force at the two overlaps tending
to resist horizontal separation.  True, if d is the Casimir gap, the
main Casimir force will act on the area of the face, say L x L, which
is large.  The fringe "pressure" will act only on an area of order
d x L, which is VERY small (both fringes,though).

Let's say the Casimir "pressure" at d separation is S force units per
area unit.  Then, our main Casimir work might be (very roughly) 

	W = (L x L xS, force) x ( d )   order of magnitude
	  =  + S L^2 d

Now, the edge work would be of order of magnitude

	W = ( S x L x d, force) x ( L, distance to slide blocks apart)
	  =  - S L^2 d   .  So, you might lose all the gain.

Now, I know I have left out a lot of integration over trig functions,
etc., but does this make sense at all?
I think your "thought engine" would be of profound importance if you can
slap down the above type of questions.
I have assumed that Casimir forces exist between non-parallel surfaces
- I wonder if this is right?

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 11:12:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA06846; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:42:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:42:22 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <331F1007.62319AC4 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 10:42:15 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703061453.JAA26968 spectre.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"os0zQ2.0.ug1.D0n7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4757
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert I. Eachus wrote:
> 
>    Hold one block above the other, then bring the blocks together
> maintaing the alignment.  Gain energry from the Casmir force.  This
> energy is proportional to the area of the touching faces.
> 
>    Now slide the blocks apart instead of pulling them apart.  There
> are three phases of interest.  When you first start to move the
> blocks, you lose (Casmir force) energy at the edges.  You then enter a
> long phase where the (net) Casmir force is acting at long distance,
> centimeters or more.  Finally, when the blocks are only touching at
> the edge you have another area of significant energy loss to the
> Casmir force.  Note that all the energy losses here (assuming
> frictionless surfaces) are proportional to the length of the edge of
> the blocks.
> 

Your analysis seems blatantly false. The force is proportional
to the length of the edge, but the work done is Force x distance,
so as you slide the block over the work done is proportional 
to the newly exposed area. Thus the energy gained in bringing them
todether is proportional to area, and the work done in sliding
them apart is proportional to area. In fact, they will cancel 
exactly, but it is clear your desired scaling 
(energy gain) goes like (area) , (energy loss) goes like (length)
is false.

I repeat: how can you expect nonconservation of casimir forces from
moving plates around, when the *derivation* of the casimir force
for such configurations is based on counting the energy changes
to the photon field??? Same configuration, same field, same energy.



-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 11:51:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA17673; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:37:19 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:37:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703061937.OAA06783 mail.enter.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chronos mailman.enter.net>
From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos enter.net>
Organization: Applied Science Associates
To: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:59:15 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Reply-to: chronos enter.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <331E5150.6201DD56 math.ucla.edu>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"PZQ9v.0.3K4.ipn7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4759
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On  5 Mar 97 at 21:08, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote:

>  From:          Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>

> Brain teaser for the day: Make the half discs be + and - charged
> plates, and replace "asimir" by "oulomb" above. So, you have
> designed a machine for extracting infinite energy from
> electrostatics. What is the catch?
> 
> SPOILER: the electrostatic force comes from a conservative 
> potential energy. Therefore it is theoretically impossible 
> to extract net energy from it if the system ends up in 
> the same configuration  as it starts in. 


SPOILER to MERRIMAN's SPOILER: 
You must put energy into your two Coulomb half-disks to get them into
your + and - charged state to begin with. Nature doesn't supply us
with free macroscopic charge-separations. 

BUT with the Casimir effect, you don't have to add energy into the
plates before letting them be pulled together. Nature DOES supply
free Casimir fuel -- apart from engineering details :-).

Therefore, your Coulomb-force example does not apply to the "ZPE
motor" problem.


> SPOILER^2: The Casimir force is also a conservative force. 
> One way to see this is that it is typically derived by
> considering variations in a configuration potential energy, 
> and therefore always has a configuration potential associated with
> it. One other way to see this is that it can be derived useing
> stochastic electrodynamics, which is an entirely classical
> electromagnetic theory, and therefore is energy conserving.

SPOILER to MERRIMAN's SPOILER^2: 

These derivations explicitly INCLUDE the zero-point energy (as a
potential energy source/sink coupled to the EM field).

In other words, "Casimir force is a conservative force" is true only
if its connection with the ZPE flux is taken into account.  This
actually supports the idea that the Casimir force might be exploited
to extract net energy from the vacuum. 

Another problem with derivations of the type you mention is that
they rest on (somewhat obscure) *assumptions* that the ZPE flux is
uniformly distributed and totally random.  If it is possible to
engineer situations where these assumptions break down, then the
theory that rests upon them collapses.

Current knowledge of randomness and order in the ZPE-field seems as
primitive as knowledge before Carnot's time about random motion of
molecules.

But brain-teasers are fun anyway.



Best regards, 
Bob Flower

=======================================================
Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates
Quality Control Engineering
Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer
=======================================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 12:16:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA19985; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:01:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:01:41 -0800
Message-Id: <199703062001.VAA42624 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 20:40:00 CET
Subject: St Petersburg conference
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"ORENj.0.Bu4.aAo7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4760
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


>The Proceedings of intenational scientific conference "New Ideas in
>Natural Sciences, St.-Petersburg, Russia, June 1996, English version,

Having read some of the articles in these proceedings, and having attended 
the conference, I can add that some of the articles are very interesting 
(to say the least) if you are interested in magnetic vortexes, the 
utilization of the ether, time travel, free energy, subtle energies, and so 
on...

Other articles could benefit from a new translation from Russian to 
English.

The Russians have a wealth of little known research results, and very 
little money. 

Whoever can afford to hire a couple of Russian scientists, and can speak 
Russian himself, could aquire some astounding knowledge and technology...


Regards, Anders
 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 12:38:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA23455; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:24:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:24:22 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re; ZPE motor?
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:23:30 +0000
Message-ID: <19970306202328.AAA17091 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"_Ycss.0.Nk5.pVo7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4761
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

FWIW;
I think the metal plates "induce" forces in each other by way of internal
loop currents from charge motion in each, and the whole idea of zero point
fields pushing them together is a Crock. <G>

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 12:56:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA25850; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:39:50 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:39:50 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:39:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703062039.PAA28000 spectre.mitre.org>
To: fstenger interlaced.net
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <331F13CC.6CC3 interlaced.net> (fstenger@interlaced.net)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"_9Rtj3.0.mJ6.Lko7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4762
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   Frank said:

  > You lose me here, Robert.  Consider below:

	   _________________________________
	  |	stator			    |
	  |_______________>_________________| > small edge hor. comp.
			    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
			    __________________<______________
			  < |       armature  ------->	     |
			    |________________________________|

  > It seems to me that even though the edges are well into the main area,
  > there will be a "fringing" horizontal force at the two overlaps tending
  > to resist horizontal separation.  

  Yes.

  > True, if d is the Casimir gap, the main Casimir force will act on
  > the area of the face, say L x L, which is large.  The fringe
  > "pressure" will act only on an area of order d x L, which is VERY
  > small (both fringes,though)...

  > Now, I know I have left out a lot of integration over trig functions,
  > etc., but does this make sense at all?

   Yes, but look at that edge closely.  First the shape of the edge
affects the amount of the effect.  I've been picturing an edge like
this:

                 \
                  \
   ________________\
          d
     ------------------------
     \
      \   
       \

    (If nothing else it simplifies the calculations...you don't have
to worry about the attraction between the surface and the horizontal
wall.)

    Now for the hard part.

    The net force when you slide the blocks apart comes mostly from
the attraction of the exposed surface for the edge of the other block.
In any real system what you are concerned about is the difference
between the effect when the disks are apart and when they are
together.  But that is a detail here, since you can assume to a
first approximation that the force is zero for apart.

    As I compute it, the drag scales as the inverse cube of d not the
inverse fourth power.  So at some point the drag is dominated by the
energy gain.  Of course I may have blown the math, but it seems
intuitively right--the drag is less dependent on d, since you are
integrating over all angles.  Hmmm.  That is as clear as mud.  The
vertical attraction is integrated over all angles too, but you are
multiplying by the cosine--the effect is strongest for small angles.
The drag component is integrating over the sine.


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 13:15:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA26956; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:54:21 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:54:21 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:54:10 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703062054.OAA12686 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"--b-g2.0._a6.txo7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4763
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert E said that it is important that the Casimir force is 1/r^4 rather
than 1/r^2.

I don't think this affects whether or not the force is "conservative".

It looks to me that ANY force function that is monotonic (has only one value
of force for every distance value) is destined to be conservative.

An example of a non-conservative force function is one whose value depends
upon the direction of travel....i.e. one that exhibits hysteresis.  If you
could have more force when the plates were approaching and less force when
they were coming apart, you'd have an engine.




Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 13:55:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA02071; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:37:46 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:37:46 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <331F3942.5BCB interlaced.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:38:10 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703062039.PAA28000 spectre.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"4gylk3.0.EW.cap7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4764
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert I. Eachus wrote:
>
(snip) 
  Hmmm.  That is as clear as mud.  The
> vertical attraction is integrated over all angles too, but you are
> multiplying by the cosine--the effect is strongest for small angles.
> The drag component is integrating over the sine.
> 
You may be right, Robert, but I'm getting this sinking feeling!  I was
almost ready to dig out the quartz disks, the carborundum, and the
optical rouge - whip up some optical flats - get'em aluminized and build
up a Casimir engine.  Then, Barry had to rain on the parade.  I hate
arguing with a guy who sounds like he knows what he's talking about!
I'll leave that up to you. (Besides, I'm already on Barry's list for
insisting that photons have mass.)

Standing by, ---- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 14:48:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA03681; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:08:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:08:14 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:07:54 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703062207.QAA20490 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"vaaKQ2.0.Rv.D1q7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4765
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 15:39 3/6/97 -0500, Robert E wrote:

>   Yes, but look at that edge closely.  First the shape of the edge
>affects the amount of the effect.

Shape...shmape!

If your proposed effect is real, then it should also work with blocks half
that size, right?...and half again, right?  Keep going until each
rectangular block consists of two atoms.  Does the effect still work?  Now
cut those blocks in half.  Does the effect still work?  Certainly not,
because now we have single atoms approaching and receding from each
other...and it matters not which direction they do so in.  Your big block is
made up of lots of single atoms each one of which can be considered to
approach and recede from another single atom in the other block.  The total
force on the blocks is simply the sum of all the single atom interactions.


Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 15:37:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA12229; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:01:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:01:05 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:00:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703062300.SAA28737 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <199703062054.OAA12686 natashya.eden.com> (message from Scott Little on Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:54:10 -0600 (CST))
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"xqtLg3.0._-2.moq7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4766
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



   Scott Little little eden.com) said:

  > Robert E said that it is important that the Casimir force is 1/r^4 rather
  > than 1/r^2.

   Yep, I said that.

  > I don't think this affects whether or not the force is "conservative".

   Get back to that.

  > It looks to me that ANY force function that is monotonic (has only
  > one value of force for every distance value) is destined to be
  > conservative.

   Okay.

  > An example of a non-conservative force function is one whose value
  > depends upon the direction of travel....i.e. one that exhibits
  > hysteresis.  If you could have more force when the plates were
  > approaching and less force when they were coming apart, you'd have
  > an engine.

   Agreed.

   Now for the back to that.  I can't come up with a mathematical
representation of the Casmir force math that is independent of shape.
But there is a very important point that most people miss:

           Plate A    B C    D

                 |    | |    |
                 |    | |    |
                 |    | |    |

    The force between B and C is decreased by the presence of A and D,
while the force between A and D is increased by the presence of the
inner plates.  Hmmm.  Just to go a bit further...  Move B and C
together insert between A and D, move them apart:

                 A B      C D

                 | |      | |
                 | |      | |
                 | |      | |

     Now pull B and C out from between A and D (which remain
stationary throughout).

                 A          D

                 |          |
                 |          |
                 |          |

                   B      C
           
                   |      |
                   |      |
                   |      |

       We spent less energy pulling B and C apart than we got from
moving them together.  If I believe the assertion that this force is
conservative, then this is counterbalanced by the extra energy
required to remove B and C from between A and D.  So far so good.  But
I get different energy profiles if I remove B and C together or one
then the other.  It is all second order effects, but I never promised
you a Rose garden, just very slight OU.  (You have to be very careful
to calculate all the forces involved.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 16:35:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA22744; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:19:34 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:19:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <331F6CF2.7E5A microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 10:48:42 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net,
        freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Hamel Disc Tilt Simulations
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"b8X3g2.0.8Z5.Dyr7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4768
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All,

I have posted a series of 4 Gifs on the flux contours as the
Hamel Disc tilts.  I noticed that the flux density in and
around the ring magnet increases as the tilt increases.  This
is not what I would expect.  I will do more work to understand
this.  I have not been able to get my test setup to continue
spinning except by moving the upper magnet assy.

I have almost finished my Newman Balloon test rig.  I will
use voltages of 12, 150, 300 and 900 in the tests.  I will post
pictures of the results, good or bad.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 16:44:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA03490; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:30:08 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:30:08 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530504af450d63ca15 [199.237.131.241]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:32:15 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"LcxiE3.0.Rs.E6s7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4769
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Consider the following plates of length L:



                 --------------------------------------
                 |                                    |
            X    --------------------------------------
  --------------------------------------  Y               W
  |                                    |
  --------------------------------------

 |<---- D1 --->|<--------- D2 ---------->|<----- D3 --->|



For a sufficiently large D2, due to the 1/r^4 nature of the attraction the
fringe force, the force applied over the area D2*L should be much larger
than lateral force applied to the edges at X and Y.  If D1 and D2 are
sufficiently large, in relation to the gap width W,  doubling or halving
them should have a nominal effect on the lateral fringe force at X or Y.
The lateral fringe force is essentially constant if the Di are sufficiently
large.  This is not true of electrostatic plates where the force is
proportional to 1/r^2.  However, doubling or halving D2 should double or
halve the vertical force over D2*L for a given gap width W.

If the above is true, an oscillating ZPE engine is obtained by halving D2
(by lateral motion), increasing gap width W, doubling D2, and then drawing
power from the return of widthe W to the starting width.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 17:13:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA05646; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:45:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:45:32 -0800
Message-ID: <331F6546.2F1C interlaced.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 19:45:58 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703062334.SAA28797 spectre.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"L9bI-2.0.8O1.hKs7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4770
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert I. Eachus wrote:
>
(snip)
  Extracting power via
> the Casmir force is going to be small to begin with, and this method
> uses a second order effect. 

To borrow Scott's literary style, power...shmower, order...schmorder,
Robert, if you can extract ANY work from the vacuum with a macroscopic
structure - you'll have Doc Puthoff in your face real quick!!

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 17:41:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA13580; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:27:54 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:27:54 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <331F6F10.13728473 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 17:27:44 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <v01530504af450d63ca15 [199.237.131.241]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"HNAFF.0.4K3.Oys7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4771
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace Heffner wrote:
> 

      
for 2 finite paralell plates, spacing W,  breadth L, 
somewhat off center like this

     --------------
       ---------------
let
D2 = width of plate overlap region,
D1,D3 = width of nonoverlapping regions

>
> For a sufficiently large D2,  due to the 1/r^4 
> nature of the attraction the
> fringe force, the force applied over the area D2*L 
> should be much larger
> than lateral force applied to the edges.

True.

>  If D1 and D2 are
> sufficiently large, in relation to the gap width W,  
> doubling or halving
> them should have a nominal effect on the lateral fringe 
> force at X or Y.

True.


> The lateral fringe force is essentially constant if the Di are 
> sufficiently large.  

True

> This is not true of electrostatic plates where the force is
> proportional to 1/r^2. 

True.

> doubling or halving D2 should double or
> halve the vertical force over D2*L for a given gap width W.

True.

> 
> If the above is true, 

It is.

> an engine is obtained by halving D2
> by lateral [sliding] motion, increasing gap width W, doubling D2, 
> and then drawing power from the return of widthe W to the 
> starting width.
> 

False. 

You seemed to ignore that the work done in the lateral sliding
motion is Force*distance = F0 * L * D2/2 
where F0 is the force per unit length of edge, L is the breath.
This is proportional to the plate overlap area L * D2 !!!
Thus, your sequence of energy moves are:

move            energy gain
-----           -----------
plates come     +, proportional to area L*D2
together 

plates slide    -, proportional to area L*D2
laterally  

plates move     -, proportional to area L*D2
apart    

plates slide    +, proportional to area L*D2
back laterally 

Thus, all these contributions have the same scaling 
with area! It is now your task to evaluate the precise
proportionality constants in each motion, to show
that they don't add to 0. Of course, this would require
detailed knowledge of the casimir force one a plate edge.
But, I can save you the trouble. Because it is conservative, 
they sum to zero, compatible with all have the same scaling with area.

Now you see why the patent office has simply banned patents
on perpetual motion machines :-)

                        


-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 17:41:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA14206; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:29:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:29:46 -0800
From: "Jay Olson" <olso3562 novell.uidaho.edu>
Organization: University of Idaho
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:28:45 PST8PDT
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a)
Message-ID: <81A6D848D9 hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu>
Resent-Message-ID: <"YQ6y_1.0.uT3.7-s7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4773
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Choose some material
> which goes from very poor conductor to good conductor with
> temperature.  (Ceramic HT superconductors come to mind.)
> 					Robert I. Eachus

Yeah, a ceramic superconductor sounds ideal, if only Tc was, say, 
about 70F!  But my question is, _how_ critical is Tc?  How little 
change in temp. results in a huge change in conductivity?  Also, it's 
a shame that temp. takes so long to change when you want to expend 
the least amount of energy possible.  It would be tough to make a 
motor that is dependant on temperature change one way then the other 
for it's RPMs.  Being a lowly student who knows nothing of variable conductivity materials (there's got to be a simpler name for 
them), is there another factor that could alter conductivity significantly and with as little energy input as 
possible (and one that is rapidly reversable)?

JAY OLSON

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 17:43:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA13862; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:28:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:28:20 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:28:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703070128.UAA28974 spectre.mitre.org>
To: fstenger interlaced.net
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <331F6546.2F1C interlaced.net> (fstenger@interlaced.net)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"uMu5Q.0.TO3.pys7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4772
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


  
  Frank Stenger said:

  > To borrow Scott's literary style, power...shmower, order...schmorder,
  > Robert, if you can extract ANY work from the vacuum with a macroscopic
  > structure - you'll have Doc Puthoff in your face real quick!!

  Then start grinding.  I just realized that the insight that got me
started on this is one I haven't elucidated very well.  Look at the
two drawings below.  F1, F2, and F3 are the transverse components of
the Casmir force.  Are they the same in the three drawings?  If not
how can the Casmir force be conservative, since the energy we are
drawing out from vertical movement is in all cases identical?

  If you want, it is possible to take Scott's example to the extreme
in a practical device.  Try case three, with metal plating on a
non-conductive substrate.  It certainly makes it easier to calculate
if the edge is one atom thick.
                      _______________
                     |               |
                     |               |
                     |               |
                     |_______________|
                               _______________
                              |               |
                 <---- F1     |               |
                              |               |
                              |_______________|

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ____________
                     |            \
                     |             \
                     |              \
                     |_______________\
                               _______________
                               \              |
                 <---- F2       \             |
                                 \            |
                                  \___________|

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      _______________
                     |_______________|
                               _______________
                 <---- F3     |_______________|

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 19:09:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA11227; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:55:19 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:55:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <331F90EB.4E0E microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:22:11 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hschulze collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: What is the DNMEC effect?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"QgVTk1.0.4l2.HEu7p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4776
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All,

I have been asked by many people to re-explain the DNMEC effect.

Will here goes.

The DNMEC generator I am working on is a modification of a flux gate
design where you have a magnetic circuit comprising of a magnet, coil,
air gap, moving ferromagnetic flux gate and ferromagnetic material
linking in all together in a "C" shape as below :


              |---------------------------------------|
              |  Rotating Drive Shaft (Non FerroMag)  |
              |---------------------------------------|
                             |        |
                             |        |  < Connecting Arm (Non Ferro)
                             |        |
                  |------------------------------|
                  |   FerroMagnetic Flux Gate    |
                  |                              |
                  |---------|          |---------|
                            |          |
                  |--------||----------|
|-----------------|        |            |--------|---------------|
|                 |        |            | Neo Dym|               |
|                 | Coil   |  Air Gap   | Magnet |               |
|       |---------|        |            |--------|-------|       |
|       |         |--------|                             |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |------------------------------------------------|       |
|                                                                |
|           Ferromagnetic Core Material                          |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|

A functional description follows:

1) As the flux gate rotates toward the air gap, flux density in the
core increases due to the approaching flux gate reducing the reluctance
(magnetic resistance) of the air gap.

2) As the core flux is changing, an emf will be induced in the coil.

3) As the coil is shorted, the induced emf will produce a current flow.

4) The coil's current flow will produce a magnetic field in the coil
which will oppose the increasing coil and core flux.

5) Due to the position of the magnet and coil adjacent to the air gap,
the opposing coil flux will increase the flux density outside of
the air gap in the region occupied by the flux gate.  This is one
of the new effects necessary of the DNMEC effect to work.

6) As the ferrite flux gate is outside of the air gap and its
ferromagnetic force of attraction is related to the flux density,
the flux gate will experience increased attraction into the air
gap.  

7) In all other flux gate designs known to me, the flux gate
will, at this point, experience reduced attraction due to the
mmf sources (coil and magnet) being buried (not adjacent to the
air gap) and air gap flux density reducing.

8) The increased attraction will be sensed by the drive motor as a
reduction in necessary drive torque and hence a reduction in drive 
motor current.

9) It is my observing drive motor current that I am attempting
to design a simple to build unit which will produce in excess of
a 10% reduction in drive current.  This design will be available to
any and all.

10) In my current designs, if the flux gate enters the air gap, the
effect dies and turns into a normal non OU flux gate generator.

11) In my opinion, the extra energy sources are the stiff aligned
domains in the Neo Dym Magnet and the soft aligned domains in the
moving flux gate.

I have verified each of the above steps (except 11) through other
testing, some of which I have posted here.  I can re-post any of
the Gifs which show each of the steps happening.

My testing to date has produced a 2-3% reduction in drive current and
my latest unit (the fifth) should produce at least 10-15%.

I invite all to critique the above on any basis you choose, just
don't reject it as rubbish without a fair hearing.  Give it a fair go!

All I ask for is your open mind.

Remember,  "None of us is as smart as ALL of us".

Good thinking.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 19:20:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA28303; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:48:39 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:48:39 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 02:47:03 +0000
Message-ID: <19970307024701.AAA28938 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"nzlns3.0.9w6.68u7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4775
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:28 PM 3/6/97 PST8PDT, Jay Olson wrote:

>Being a lowly student who knows nothing of variable conductivity materials
>(there's got to be a simpler name for 
>them), is there another factor that could alter conductivity significantly
and >with as little energy input as 
>possible (and one that is rapidly reversable)?
>
Methinks that they are called Varistors for voltage effected change, and for
temperature sensing semiconductors, thermistors. For light sensitive ones,
photoconductors.I think that there is one that responds to magnetism other
than Hall Effect devices.

Nothing lowly about being a student, It's the best game in town.

All available from Radio Shack.  <g>

Best Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 19:19:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA27607; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:43:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:43:53 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:43:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703070243.VAA29100 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <81A6D848D9 hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu> (olso3562@novell.uidaho.edu)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"28uRB1.0.Dl6.e3u7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4774
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   Jay Olson asks:

  > But my question is, _how_ critical is Tc?  How little change in
  > temp. results in a huge change in conductivity?  Also, it's a
  > shame that temp. takes so long to change when you want to expend
  > the least amount of energy possible.  It would be tough to make a
  > motor that is dependant on temperature change one way then the
  > other for it's RPMs.  Being a lowly student who knows nothing of
  > variable conductivity materials (there's got to be a simpler name
  > for them), is there another factor that could alter conductivity
  > significantly and with as little energy input as possible (and one
  > that is rapidly reversable)?

    For superconductors, Tc is also dependent on the local magnetic
flux.   With a type I superconductor, increase the magnetic field just
a little bit and poof it is no longer a superconductor.  (Type II is a
lot more complicated.  Not what you want here.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 20:07:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA00773; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 19:43:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 19:43:20 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 19:20:49 -0800
Message-Id: <199703070320.TAA05647 Au.oro.net>
X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien)
Subject: Re: Conference on Fundamental Structure of Universe
Resent-Message-ID: <"Lpe8M2.0.yB.Nxu7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4778
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dear Vortexians;

I have received a few questions regarding the conference and thought I would
just address them here so anyone else with the same questions would get them
answered.

The web address to read about the conference is Ray Tomes and is listed
below in the original post.  The dates are May 30, 31, and June 1.  Arrival
is Thursday the 29th of May.  Hotels tend to book up about 4 weeks in
advance, so if you are interested, let me know or let Ray know and register
and make reservations as soon as you can.

The conference fee is going to be just $75.00.  This includes three days of
conference, three lunches, light breakfast stuff like donuts and juice, and
an afternoon soda and snack for a break.  We will also be printing the
proceedings, and will make some available for purchase to those who do not
attend.  Those who do attend also get this printed proceedings.  We are as
well planning to video tape all of the presentations, so these tapes will be
made available for purchase at a reasonable price after we find out how much
it costs us to get the tapes all put together.  

In short, if you can afford to go to a weekend camping in the woods of
Northern California, then you can afford to come to this conference if you
choose to.

As far as attendence is concerned, the hotels in the area are about $65.00
per night, but we have also made available a couple of homes where you could
"camp" out in a tent and use the home for cleaning up etc.  Alternately, a
few people could use a bed roll on the living room floor.

In other words, if someone really want to come, but money is the issue, we
have made every attempt to provide ways that virtually anyone serious could
make it.  We want for people with a variety of technical expertise and
experience and insight to come and listen.  And if you have some special
field of research that relates to fundamental physics as concerns notions
that would lead to a unification of GR and QM, then we would entertain your
making a presentation of that information to put forward your theory on how
and why the universe works.  Notice that the "Why" word is not outlawed at
this conference, and it is in attempting to answer that question that all of
the presentations are directed.

I emphasize again, however, that this is not an OU conference, and so papers
like that are not going to be the norm.  But you and I both know that if you
really understand the "whys" of how the universe works, then knowing what to
do to generate OU energy falls out as a simple result of that knowledge.  It
is this fact for which I have posted this mention here in vortex as I
thought a few of you might want to make the trek.

Again, check out Rays web site for a listing of abstracts to get a flavor
for the papers to be presented.

Later, Ross Tessien


snip

>Alternately, you can visit the web site of Ray Tomes at 
>
>rtomes kcbbs.gen.nz (Ray Tomes)
>
>And look at the information for yourself.  He will have a registration form
>up soon, as I just sent it to him tonight.
>
>The location will be in Nevada City / Grass Valley, CA.  This is about an
>hour outside of Sacramento and 3 hours from San Francisco, 2.5 from Oakland
>and 1.5 from Reno airports.  I have arranged for lodging right on down to
>free camping at some homes, so if you can afford a plane ticket and a few
>nights food, then you ought to be able to make it if you are intereseted.
>
>Let me know, and make your reservations soon if you are interested.  And let
>us know ASAP so that we can finalize the arrangements for the conference
>room size.  
>
>Thanks, Ross Tessien
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar  6 22:34:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA21797; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:24:12 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:24:12 -0800
Message-ID: <331FB39D.3E43 interlaced.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 01:20:13 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703070128.UAA28974 spectre.mitre.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"pzJjJ.0.cJ5.7Ix7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4779
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert I. Eachus wrote:
>
(snip) 
 Look at the
> two drawings below.  F1, F2, and F3 are the transverse components of
> the Casmir force.  Are they the same in the three drawings?  If not
> how can the Casmir force be conservative, since the energy we are
> drawing out from vertical movement is in all cases identical?
> 
>   If you want, it is possible to take Scott's example to the extreme
> in a practical device.  Try case three, with metal plating on a
> non-conductive substrate.  It certainly makes it easier to calculate
> if the edge is one atom thick.
>                       _______________
>                      |               |
>                      |               |
>                      |               |
>                      |_______________|
>                                _______________
>                               |               |
>                  <---- F1     |               |
>                               |               |
>                               |_______________|
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                       ____________
>                      |            \
>                      |             \
>                      |              \
>                      |_______________\
>                                _______________
>                                \              |
>                  <---- F2       \             |
>                                  \            |
>                                   \___________|
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                       _______________
>                      |_______________|
>                                _______________
>                  <---- F3     |_______________|
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

You make some good points, Robert.  Maybe I was barking up the wrong
tree to worry about the details of the edge geometry.  If Barry is
right, and your points on edge geometry are considered, then we would
need to look elsewhere for the evil transverse force.  Look again at
two idealized conducting plates of ZERO thickness.

	_______________________________________
			 A .	     .B	       .C
			   ________________________________________

This is not easy for me to explain, but imagine a "direction star"
like the "*" symbol, but with long lines extending off the page.
Then, assume these lines represent direction lines for Casimir force
vectors for a complete 360 degrees in the page plane.

Now, locate one of these direction stars at each of the three points in
the above sketch at A, B, and C.  without worrying about edge-wall
geometry (we assumed none), it seems to me that these three points
represent three special cases:
	1. At B, we have plenty of surface to the left AND right of the
	   point, so the Casimir pinch forces at angle to the vertical
	   have their transverse components cancel out - so we are left
	   with a perpendicular pinch force at B.
	2. However, at point A, the transverse components that pinch
	   the bottom plate to the left are still there, as at B, -
	   but, the right directed pinch components are absent
    	   -because the bottom plate is absent to the left.
	3. Similar consideration of point C also shows an absence of
	   right-directed pinch components for the same reasons as in
	   2. above.

In other words, the transverse Casimir pinch forces are functions of
how close a differential gap segment is to an edge - not a strong
function of the detailed shape of the edge.  Maybe this is what you
were getting at with the angled edges in your sketches?  But, it seems
to me now that we must keep focused on the gap region where the action
is and only on the active inner surfaces - mostly!

Man, talk about foggy!  If anyone can understand what I am getting at,
they deserve a medal.  I see integration around direction stars at
each point in space on and between the plates - maybe we should just
use Barry's conservation laws and be done with it?

Too sleepy to go on ------- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 02:48:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA17840; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:34:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:34:36 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:34:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703062334.SAA28797 spectre.mitre.org>
To: fstenger interlaced.net
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <331F3942.5BCB interlaced.net> (fstenger@interlaced.net)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"lvZjN.0.gM4.BIr7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4767
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   You said:

  > You may be right, Robert, but I'm getting this sinking feeling!  I was
  > almost ready to dig out the quartz disks, the carborundum, and the
  > optical rouge - whip up some optical flats - get'em aluminized and build
  > up a Casimir engine.

  > Then, Barry had to rain on the parade.  I hate
  > arguing with a guy who sounds like he knows what he's talking about!
  > I'll leave that up to you. (Besides, I'm already on Barry's list for
  > insisting that photons have mass.)

    I didn't know there was a parade to rain on.  Extracting power via
the Casmir force is going to be small to begin with, and this method
uses a second order effect.  Microwatts per pound would be optimistic.
If you want free power, you are better off with a radiometer. ;-)

    The other recent discussion is much more interesting.  If someone
can build a superconductor sandwich, the power is there.  Of course,
since the power will be generated in the form of heat at around 90
degrees k, it will only be useful on spacecraft, and then only on deep
space missions.


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...
  

   

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 03:19:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10430; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 02:53:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 02:53:42 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530500af459c2e827a [199.237.131.247]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:56:48 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"mz5yI3.0.uY2.qE_7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4780
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 1:20 AM 3/7/97, Francis J. Stenger wrote:
[snip]
>  Look again at
>two idealized conducting plates of ZERO thickness.
>
>        _______________________________________
>                         A .         .B        .C
>                           ________________________________________
>
>This is not easy for me to explain, but imagine a "direction star"
>like the "*" symbol, but with long lines extending off the page.
>Then, assume these lines represent direction lines for Casimir force
>vectors for a complete 360 degrees in the page plane.
>
[snip]
>
>In other words, the transverse Casimir pinch forces are functions of
>how close a differential gap segment is to an edge - not a strong
>function of the detailed shape of the edge.
[snip]
>
>Too sleepy to go on ------- Frank Stenger

Yes, it's only photon shielding that makes up the Casimir force isn't it?
How much shielding does it take to make photon shielding?  Depends on
absorbtion characteristics doesn't it?  Maybe another approach is to simply
alternately block and unblock block the ends and let the plates respond by
moving only vertically:


          Armature
             -----
             |   | ------------------------------------------
             |   | |                                   ||   |
             |   | -------------------------------------|   |
             |   | ----------P------------------P--------   |
             |   | |                                        |
             |   | ------------------------------------------
             |   |
             |   |
        ================ Shaft
             |   |
             |   |
             -----
                   ------------------------------------------
                   |                                   ||   |
                   -------------------------------------|   |
                   ---------P--------------------P-------   |
                   |                                        |
                   ------------------------------------------

Extract energy from piezo compression due to relative movement of plates.
Suspend top plate on small piezo crystals used like pillars to support the
top plate.  This would be especially useful if there were a way to
passively focus a ZPE photon beam into the gaps. The armature is conceptual
only. It would be more practical to oscilllate the ends of the two plates
closest to open end, like tuning forks, in order to alternately close and
open the gap end to photon entry. Not practical maybe, but what about
concept?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 04:33:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA27607; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:43:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:43:53 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:43:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703070243.VAA29100 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <81A6D848D9 hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu> (olso3562@novell.uidaho.edu)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"28uRB1.0.Dl6.e3u7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4774
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   Jay Olson asks:

  > But my question is, _how_ critical is Tc?  How little change in
  > temp. results in a huge change in conductivity?  Also, it's a
  > shame that temp. takes so long to change when you want to expend
  > the least amount of energy possible.  It would be tough to make a
  > motor that is dependant on temperature change one way then the
  > other for it's RPMs.  Being a lowly student who knows nothing of
  > variable conductivity materials (there's got to be a simpler name
  > for them), is there another factor that could alter conductivity
  > significantly and with as little energy input as possible (and one
  > that is rapidly reversable)?

    For superconductors, Tc is also dependent on the local magnetic
flux.   With a type I superconductor, increase the magnetic field just
a little bit and poof it is no longer a superconductor.  (Type II is a
lot more complicated.  Not what you want here.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 04:58:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA17409; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 04:48:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 04:48:33 -0800
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 07:47:55 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307074754_208139335 emout08.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise and HDTV
Resent-Message-ID: <"vFmlO2.0.xF4.Vw08p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4781
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Footnote to discussions about HDTV. The encoding process involves a huge data
pipeline and significant delay, as there are frame-to-frame comparisons. What
happens is that each frame is broken into little patches with their own
encoding, and then the patches in successive frames are compared and only the
differences transmitted, including changes in position, for a moving scene.
This process is called MPEG2, and is used now in the DSS satellite system. I
have one TV connected to a DSS satellite receiver and another to ordinary
cable; once when both were receiving the same program, there was a very
obvious delay between the satellite signal and the cable signal -- the
latter, although also distributed by geosychronous satellite, does not use
the MPEG2 encoding. 

MPEG2 is also used in the DVD discs just now coming onto the market. The
compression ratio for video is about 50:1, so a HDTV signal can be trasmitted
in a 6 MHz channel, or 5 NTSC programs with room to spare. 

Extensive surveys showed that most TV stations lose very little coverage in
digital transmission. The worst cases are places like Manhattan, where the
path delays in signals bouncing around the buildings can cause troubles.
Digital TV receivers get a splendid picture or nothing. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 05:27:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA19164; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 05:12:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 05:12:17 -0800
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:11:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307081138_1583262901 emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Notoya's Sponsors?
Resent-Message-ID: <"d1wwU1.0.Ih4.lG18p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4782
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Elliot,

You mentioned that Reiko Notoya has sponsors for her work with Mills-type
cells.  Do you know who the sponsors are?  

Do you have any idea why they would be less interested in XSH than in finding
nuclear products, the search for which seems to have been the main focus of
Notoya's recent work, as indicated for example in Akira Kawasaki's posting of
data from Notoya's presentation at ICCF6?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 07:01:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA29745; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 19:06:38 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 19:06:38 -0800
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130502af4541dcdb56 [153.34.203.203]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:01:47 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: The Magnetic Current and Single Magnetic Charges
Resent-Message-ID: <"0hAB62.0.bG7.xOu7p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4777
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In the past week, several individuals have privately written me regarding
the work of Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft.  I am therefore posting the following for
the benefit of those who may not have read this information:

Subject: The Magnetic Current and Single Magnetic Charges

__________________________________________________________
       Some years ago,  I heard a lecture  presentation by
astrophysicist  Andrew  J.  Galambos  on  the  subject  of
Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft's experiments  with Photophoresis.  As
a young college student in physics, Dr. Galambos worked as
a laboratory  assistant to Dr. Ehrenhaft  during the 1940s
in New York City.  In his lecture, Dr. Galambos  projected
microphotographs  of a  Photophoresis  phenomena for which
there was no general  explanation.   The  microphotographs
were most interesting  in their depiction  of the activity
of submicroscopic particles  suspended  in liquids  and/or
gases.

What was most  unusual  about  the activity of these small
particles was the following:

During  the  course of  the  experiment, the motion of the
particles  traced  out  a  "spiral"  path.   However, upon
magnification  of a given section  of a given spiral,  one
saw a  "spiral" path within the path of the larger spiral.
When a section of this  second order magnitude spiral path
was  magnified  one  saw  an  even smaller  "spiral"  path
comprising this second order magnitude spiral path.....and
when the third order magnitude  spiral path was magnified,
an even smaller spiral path was detected.

This continuing "spirals with spirals" paths were detected
down  to  the  limits  of  the   magnification  technology
available to Dr. Ehrenhaft.

I have often wondered,  over the years,  if these "spirals
within spirals" are  related to the Hypothetical motion of
the gyroscopic  particle  throughout the "shells of force"
comprising  magnetic fields, as pictured on pages 10/11 of
the book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman.

In viewing  these  microphotographs,  one had the distinct
impression that something phenomenal was happening, but no
definitive explanation for the observations was presented.

                                  --- Evan Soule'
__________________________________________________________

The  following  is  a  paper  (one  of  many)  written  by
Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft:


                  THE MAGNETIC CURRENT

        [Published in SCIENCE, Volume 94, No. 2436]


   Not only  electric  current but also  magnetic currents
flow through the universe.

   I reached this conclusion by consecutive and persistent
observation of  single  submicroscopic particles suspended
in gases.(^1)   Using  this  method in my small condenser,
I can  measure  forces  of  an  order of magnitude down to
10^-10 dynes.  Therefore, my measurement of forces is more
sensitive  by  the factor of 10^4 than any direct measure-
ments of forces made so far.  I was able to find new facts
because methods of the highest  possible  sensitivity were
used.

    These observations can be summed up in two sentences:

     (1) PARTICLES OF MATTER, IRRADIATED BY A CONCENTRATED
BEAM OF LIGHT, MOVE IN A  HOMOGENEOUS  ELECTRIC AS WELL AS
MAGNETIC FIELD IN OR AGAINST THE LINES OF FORCE.

(Electro-photophoresis,  magneto-photophoresis).   I  have
therefore concluded that these particles are charged under
the impact of light.   There  exist not only electric, but
also magnetic charges.

     (2) PARTICLES   OF  THE  SAME  KIND  AND   SIZE  MOVE
SIMULTANEOUSLY  TOWARD AND  AGAINST THE PROPAGATION OF THE
LIGHT.

I called the  movement away from the light, lightpositive,
and  that  toward  the  light,  lightnegative longitudinal
photophoresis.(^2)  I  have  therefore  concluded that the
light beam has potential differences along its propagation
which cause the particles  on which charges are induced to
move in or against the direction  of propagation.   To the
well-known oscillating fields in the beam of light have to
be added these stationary electric and magnetic fields.

    Before such fundamental  conclusions can be drawn, one
must first  see if there is no other  explanation possible
in accord with  existing theories.  Working for decades on
the experiments and their interpretation,  I was forced to
believe that  only such an  electromagnetic interpretation
can be in accordance with all observable facts.

    Heat  or  mechanical  effects --- so-called radiometer
forces (Crookes)  ---  cannot  account for these phenomena
for the following reason:   There is a photophoretic force
in liquids which is of the  same order  of magnitude as in
gases,  although  no  radiometer  forces exist in liquids.
Silver or copper  particles in gases which are  reflecting
strongly  exhibit  a  tremendous  lightnegative  movement,
though they ought to be most heated on the side toward the
light, and one would expect a movement away from the light.
It  seems  impossible  to explain the reversibility of the
particles with corresponding  reversals of the field.  The
energy  of  the  fields   alone  is  responsible  for  the
orientation of the  particles  and is a quadratic function
of the  potentials.   One  therefore  should  not expect a
change of direction in the  motion  of uncharged particles
if the field is reversed.

   Were the movement due to heating effects, one could not
explain why the  particles move across and along the inner
part of the beam instead of going entirely out of it.   It
would  also  seem  strange  that  the  movement  of nickel
particles under the influence of the geomagnetic field, as
it was observed in my Institute in Vienna, Austria,  could
be compensated by a superposed magnetic field of about 0.4
gauss.

    Furthermore,  the  movement  of  the  particles always
follows the lines of force, no matter from which direction
the  light  may  come.   This  would  be impossible if the
movement were due to heating effects.  That some particles
start to move suddenly from rest,  that  the photophoretic
movement  suddenly  disappears  and sometimes increases or
decreases gradually, and many other observations cannot be
explained by mechanical or heat effects.

    When  I  came  to the conclusion that there are single
magnetic poles (magnetic charges),  it  was  therefore not
necessary  to  ask  if this agreed with existing theories,
but rather  whether  there are any experimental facts that
contradict it. It can be stated here that so far there are
no experimental facts  which contradict this conclusion of
the existence of  single  magnetic poles.   A study of the
literature  made  with  Leo  Banet  showed  the  following
situation:

   It has been the predominating opinion up to the present
time  that  a   real  quantity  of  positive  or  negative
electricity can be enclosed  within an arbitrarily  chosen
geometric surface. But no matter how the surface is chosen,
it will always  enclose the same amount of south and north
magnetism.   In  other words, there are true quantities of
electricity  of  either  sign,  but no true magnetic ones.
This statement  has been made quite clearly by James Clerk
Maxwell in his  "Treatise  on  Electricity and Magnetism."
Maxwell  tried  to  prove  that there was no such thing as
true  magnetism.  May  I remind you here that in principio
it is impossible  to prove from experiments that something
is non-existent.   Furthermore,  the two experiments which
Maxwell quotes are not conclusive:

    The  first  one  states that a broken magnet gives two
entire magnets with equal poles.   If a non-magnetic piece
of iron is  broken,  it can be observed that the fragments
become magnetized in various ways on the broken ends.  The
effect  is the  same when a non-electrically charged glass
or  sulphur  rod  is broken, and shows at the ends various
kinds  of  electric  charges.  This  phenomenon  is easily
explained, since each breaking creates constriction.  Each
constriction,  however, creates electricity and magnetism.
The  breaking  experiment  therefore,  does not prove that
true magnetism does not exist, as Maxwell stated.

    The second experiment,  which probably originated with
the  ancient  Chinese  and  is  quoted  by  P.  Peregrinus
(anno 1269),  indicates  that a magnet floating upon water
directs itself,  but does not move.   From  this  has been
concluded that the  amount of north and south magnetism is
equal in each magnet.   It  is  easy  to perceive that the
mobility of such a  big  floating magnet is much too small
to show slight  differences of charge.   The  particles on
which my  observations were made have a mobility a million
times   greater  than  that  of  the  floating  magnet  of
Peregrinus.  Such particles irradiated with  light move in
a homogeneous magnetic field in the lines of force.   Thus
my sensitive experiment gives evidence of the existence of
true magnetism.   In  other  words,  the Peregrini-Maxwell
experiment turns out to be positive in my small condenser,
when light is used.

    My interpretation  not only explains  all observations
in a rather simple manner,  but also makes a number of new
conclusions   possible.    One  of  these  is  that  light
magnetizes   matter.     Leo  Banet  and  I  succeeded  in
magnetizing small  pieces of iron  by means of irradiation
with ultraviolet rays.   Lilly Rona has expressed the idea
that,  concluding  from  these  experiments,  it should be
possible  to  extract  electricity  from the beam of light
originating from these  stationary components.   I believe
that she is right,  and  that it could be done without the
use  of   the  photoelectric   effect,   that  means  with
deteriorating and decomposing matter itself.

    Under the influence of  the light,  matter  coagulates
more  readily  because  of  the  induced  poles (charges).
Sometimes the light separates  amorphous  and  crystalline
particles, and sometimes it makes  crystals grow toward it
(heliotropism of crystals).

    Light causes  irregularities  in Brownian movement and
therefore also in diffusion because of photophoresis.

    Light causes  ponderomotive  forces to act upon matter
apart  from  the  effects  of  the  light pressure.  These
ponderomotive   forces  are  produced  by  the  stationary
components and induced charges. The latter have attracting
or repelling effects.

    I  determined  the  magnitude  of  the  charge  of the
magnetic  ion  and  found  it to  be  of the same order of
magnitude as the electric one.

    A new  phenomenon  which I called the trembling effect
found a simple  explanation,  the  frequent  change of the
magnetic charge  occurring predominantly  in weak magnetic
fields in the beam of light.

   Leo Banet has  drawn important conclusions in regard to
the  effects  on  the  sun  and  the  earth  that  will be
described in another paper.

   Now I shall say a few words about the MAGNETIC CURRENT.
We have shown the existence of unipolar  magnetic charges,
which flow in a homogeneous  magnetic field in or  against
the direction of the lines of force.  This can be observed
directly by means of a  microscope.   Therefore we have to
deal  with  magnetic currents  in a physical and technical
sense.  Around a magnetic current there exists an electric
field.  Furthermore, a magnetic current produces heat in a
medium conducting magnetism.

    I have  attempted  to show that a beam of light causes
or induces not only heat and electricity, but magnetism at
the same time.

--- Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft

New York, N.Y.

(^1)  F. Ehrenhaft,  Annalen  der  Physik,  56:  81, 1918;
Philo. Mag.,11: 141,1931; Annales de Physique, (Paris) 13:
151,  1940;  Phys.  Rev.,  57:  562  and  659, 1940; Jour.
Franklin Inst., 230, 381,  1940; Nature, 147: 25,  January
4, 1941;  F.  Ehrenhaft  and  L. Banet,  Nature, 147: 297,
March 8,  1941;  F.  Ehrenhaft,  Philosophy of Science, 8,
No.  3,  1941,   "The  Microcoulomb  Experiment"  (charges
smaller  than  the  electronic  charge),  see  p.  36;  F.
Ehrenhaft and Leo Banet, Philosophy of Science,  8, No. 3,
1941.   The older references about photophoresis are given
in Annales de Physique, 13: 151,
1940.

(2^) I have constructed  the apparatus on which the above-
mentioned phenomena could be seen at  C. Zeiss, Inc.,  New
York. Descriptions of the apparatus and of the experiments
are given in Annales de Physique, 13: 151,1940.

____________________________________________________________________________


     FURTHER FACTS CONCERNING THE MAGNETIC CURRENT

Published in the Journal of the American Physical Society


    The  hypothesis  of  the  electric current was founded
chiefly upon three facts:  The existence of electric ions,
the decomposition of water (electrolysis), the circulation
of the single  magnetic  pole around the constant electric
current.   Now  those  three  facts  have been observed in
magnetism as  well:   the existence  of magnetic ions, the
decomposition of water through the magnet  (magnetolysis),
the  circulation of  a single  electrostatic charge around
the constant magnetic current.

    In  the  microscope  one  observes  that different gas
bubbles as well as solid particles move in circles  around
the  axis  of  the   magnet   simultaneously  in  opposite
directions.  Each of them reverses its direction of motion
with the reversal of the magnetic field.  The bodies carry
positive or negative electrostatic charges.   The existing
laws of electrodynamics (Biot-Savart, H.A. Lorentz) cannot
explain the new facts because the electrostatic charges in
question are resting ones, etc.  Just as the line integral
of  the  magnetic  force  defines  the  intensity  of  the
electric  current  (Ch.  Oersted,  A. M. Ampere), the line
integral  of the electric  force defines the  intensity of
the magnetic current.  Electricity and magnetism represent
an  indivisible  union,   reaching  far  above  the  union
established by Faraday, Maxwell, and Hertz.

    The  electrodynamic  equations  must  be  extended  to
include the term of  magnetic current.   These theses will
be illustrated by microphotographs of the experiments.*

    *The  experiments  could  be  seen  at C. Zeiss, Inc.,
New York City.

Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft, New York, N.Y.


See also:  Physical Review, Vol. 65, Nos. 9 and 10,  May 1
and  15,  1944,  page   287  for  letter  entitled,   "The
Decomposition of  Water by the  So-Called Permanent Magnet
and  the  Measurement  of  the  Intensity  of the Magnetic
Current" by Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft.

See also:   "Single Magnetic Northpoles and Southpoles and
Their Importance for Science"  ---  Ten Lectures delivered
at the University of Vienna during  the summer semester of
1947 by Dr. Felix Ehrenhaft, U.S. Visiting Professor

[compiled with the assistance of Professor Ehrenhaft,  and
Dr. Schedling, by J. Ferber and P.K. Feyerabend].

See also: Lectures delivered in 1949 at the European Forum
Alpbach by Felix Ehrenhaft,  Karl Popper, Rosenfeld, M.H.L.
Pryce,  Max Hartmann,  Duncan Sandys,  Von Hayek, and Hans
Thirring.

__________________________________________________________

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 07:09:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA29389; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 06:41:12 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 06:41:12 -0800
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 08:40:59 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703071440.IAA28877 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"CYdE1.0.4B7.7a28p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4783
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 18:34 3/6/97 -0500, Robert E wrote:

>    I didn't know there was a parade to rain on.  Extracting power via
>the Casmir force is going to be small to begin with, and this method
>uses a second order effect.....

There you go again, Robert, worrying about engineering details. Barry & I
are trying to tell you that the effect you propose will be ZERO.  Believe
me, if the effect is NOT zero, it WOULD be a parade!

In your latest scheme the "payback" comes when you move from:

                        A  B        C  D
                        |  |        |  |
                        |  |        |  |
                        |  |        |  |

to

                        A              D
                        |              |
                        |              |
                        |              |

                           B        C   
                           |        |   
                           |        |   
                           |        |   

Withdrawing the plates B&C requires energy because they are attracted to A&D
respectively. During the move shown above B & A go from being close together
to being far apart.  Since there is an attractive force, we must do work on
them to accomplish the move.  The fact that they are moving laterally w.r.t
each other is merely a geometric complication which reduces the force but
increases the distance proportionally. It does not diminish the total work
required to get them apart.

In conclusion, since the Casimir force is monotonic, it is conservative.
Therefore the energy state of any set of objects subjected to the Casimir
force is dependant only upon their relative locations and not upon the path
that was taken to get them to those locations.  Thus any cyclic motion which
moves the objects around and returns them to the same arrangement will
necessarily have ZERO net energy exchange with the zero-point field.

This is unfortunately also true of gravitational forces, electrostatic
forces, and magnetic forces.


Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 09:49:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA09131; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:06:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:06:48 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:06:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307120605_414018759 emout10.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: conservative?
Resent-Message-ID: <"s5g6r1.0.OE2.ai48p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4784
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little writes

In conclusion, since the Casimir force is monotonic, it is conservative.
..............................................................................
..........................
The question that runs around in my mind is, "Does the breaking of symmetry
in a superconductor conserve energy?"  If a strong magnetic field is applied
to a type I superconductor it becomes non-superconductive.  Is energy
conserved in the process?  Mathematically the "breaking of the
superconductive symmetry" involves the removal of a constant of integration.
 Upon reversal of the condition the constant of integration re-appears.
 Constants of integration are arbitary.  There is a hole in the mathematics
here.
..............................................................................
.......................................
I also believe that the superconductive condition is strongly linked to
gravity.  Gravity has negative energy.  If extra gravity is produced extra
energy will also be produced.  The total energy of the system is conserved by
such a process.  Gravity is a field.  Like any other field it is NOT
conserved.  There is no law of the conservation of magnetic field for
example.
..............................................................................
......................................
There is another way of looking at things.  Assume that negative energy is
primary.  All energy flows be considered to be an exchange of negative
gravitational potential.  The positive energy that we observe just happens to
follow the negative gravitation potential.  This idea has broad consequences.
 Energy flows can be represented by a series of equations that are symmetric
with Maxwell's equations.

The second derivative field yields the gravitomagnetic field.

Gravity = G/ccr(dp/dt)...It caries the negative energy associated with motion

The first derivative field yields the induced gravitational field:

Gravitomagnetic = G/ccr (dmass/dt)..It carries the negative energy associted
with mass see my paper "The Genesis of of..." on Elektromagnum.

Its all on my "Book on a Disc"
..............................................................................
......................................
It's a mathematically beautiful way of looking at things that holds the
potential of producing electrical energy from superconductors.

Frank Znidarsic                 fznidarsic aol.com
481 Boyer St.                   http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html
Johnstown, Pa.   15906


Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:fznidarsic aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 09:51:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA12370; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:19:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:19:53 -0800
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:19:13 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703071719.LAA00240 dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com>
From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki )
Subject: Re: Notoya's Sponsors?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Cc: Tstolper aol.com
Cc: aki ix.netcom.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"uSCin3.0.813.uu48p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4785
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

March 7, 1997

Tom,

You wrote on the Vortex and to Elliot:

>You mentioned that Reiko Notoya has sponsors for her work with 
>Mills-type cells.  Do you know who the sponsors are?  

Reiko Notoya
Catalysis Research Center, Hokkaido University
Kita-11, Nishi-10, Kita-ku
Sapporo, Japan. 060
ph. (011) 511-7755

>Do you have any idea why they would be less interested in XSH than in 
>finding nuclear products, the search for which seems to have been the 
>main focus of Notoya's recent work, as indicated --- 

I take XSH to mean excess(XS) heat(H).
 
   She already reported reproducible excess heat production of 200 ~ 
300 % at the Third ICCF. Ref. (Fusion Techol. V 24 p 202 (1993). There 
does not seem to be any furthur experimentation to increase the excess 
heat production. In the 4th ICCF, she reported additionally on how 
omission of cooling affected (decreased) the excess heat production. 
This is beside the nuclear products she reported from the begining.

   Looking at references to her earlier work starting in 1966, 1983, an 
earlier work in 1960 by A. Matsuda (co author), and  the 1989 report by 
Pons & Fleischmann, her main focus is on the phenomenon of catalysis. 
Excess heat, yes, but the inquiry is --- what in catalysis is going on? 
Academia.

   This probably is fustrating to persons hot on the trail of looking 
for development of unlimited energy resources hinted at by the 
Fleischmann & Pons announcement. I guess this development belongs to an 
chemical-engineer type (and Funding) that can upscale the laboratory 
setup (actually of any excess heat setup) to a project pilot 
excess-heat plant and work out the economics of the whole scheme 
vis-a-vis the actual physical - slave - animal - cellulose - fossil - 
solar - fission - tidal - geothermal - hydro energy (all very 
competitative or niche oriented) scenes. And if it proves very 
practical, you can take for granted the goverments are going to tax the 
hell out of it before it reaches the common man. And we're not even 
touching the patent scene and the feeding trough for legal work.

-AK- 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 10:00:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA16045; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:42:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:42:25 -0800
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:37:37 -0600 (CST)
From: John Steck <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <199703071737.LAA29990 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Md5: VcIDeOZsWv8bwsMaA2FgRA==
Resent-Message-ID: <"MtbRu2.0.dw3.0E58p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4786
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


On Mar 6,  7:24pm, Barry Merriman wrote:

> Now you see why the patent office has simply banned patents
> on perpetual motion machines :-)

And all along I thought it was just because they were too closed minded at
times to give some radical ideas a chance before dismissing them.  Hmmmm. 8^>

To conclude casimir is conservative and to prove it conservative seems to be
two different things here.  Your point is well made and your assessment may be
right, but I still think the potential to sneak one past the goalie is there
given the theoretical field density potential driving casimir.  To what end, I
have no idea.  I share the opinion that as expressed, the anticipated effort
far out weighs the net reward given scale, typical materials, and practical
application.  Who knows, could wind up being a slick approach to power or drive
nanotechnology mechanisms.

Good discussion.  Nice idea catalyst for a different approach to something else
I've been struggling with.  Thanks!


-john

-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 11:12:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA01165; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:36:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:36:41 -0800
Message-ID: <33206F72.7062 gorge.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 11:41:38 -0800
From: tom gorge.net (Tom Miller)
Reply-To: tom gorge.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Moving Dielectric
References: <199703070407.UAA03968 mx1.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Q8fZg1.0.6I.u068p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4787
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I noticed the following response to a question about
moving dielectrics on a physics site i follow. The 
author has seemed to be accurate, if obtuse, in prior
 answers. Consider especially the last sentence. 
If true, this might be of help in various o/u devices.


"The energy stored in a capacitor is U = 1/2 C V^2 ; V is 
the voltage across the cap, C is the capacitance which 
for parallel plates is epsilon x area / separation. 

     Case 1) For a fixed voltage (e.g. cap is hooked up 
     to a battery), jamming in a dielectric changes 
     epsilon, the permittivity. So if it raises the 
     resultant C (and thus the energy U), it should 
     resist falling in (that is you provide the extra
     U by pushing it in). 

     Case 2) For a fixed charge on the plates (i.e. 
     charged cap is now disconnected from the battery), 
     rewrite the formula U = 1/2 Q^2 / C ; since 
     charge Q = C x V for a capacitor. Now, jamming 
     in an increased epsilon dielectric lowers the 
     energy, so the dielectric gets sucked (falls) in.

Caution: 

     1) Capacitances in parallel add. 
     2) RECIPROCALS of capacitances in series add. 

(......)


Incidentally, if you are clever, you can make a generator
 or battery charger by pushing and pulling the dielectric 
 while timing the battery connection/disconnection." 

I hope this is of value.

Tom Miller

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 13:26:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA23814; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:58:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:58:41 -0800
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:58:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703072058.PAA01509 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <331FB39D.3E43 interlaced.net> (fstenger@interlaced.net)
Subject: Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis. (was Re: ZPE motor?)
Resent-Message-ID: <"_phjg3.0.yp5._588p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4788
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


   (Is someone is out to get me?  Seriously, I sent this to the list
this morning and it nevre got through. ;-) Anyway this is really a new
departure, mixing the superconductor and disk threads....  RIE

    Frank said:  

  > In other words, the transverse Casimir pinch forces are functions of
  > how close a differential gap segment is to an edge - not a strong
  > function of the detailed shape of the edge.  Maybe this is what you
  > were getting at with the angled edges in your sketches?  But, it seems
  > to me now that we must keep focused on the gap region where the action
  > is and only on the active inner surfaces - mostly!

    I think Frank is getting to where I was when this thread started.
The edge effect is only slightly sensitive to the edge shape, but any
change seems to mean that the effect is non-conservative.  However,
every time I think I have it pinned down for good, I rescrub in the
math.  I'm now trying to integrate over three dimensions.

    But I'd like at this point to forget second order effects and look
at actually combining two ideas here and getting energy from the
Casmir Effect without having most of it cancelled out.  What is fun is
that we will be getting all the power from the edge effect. ;-)

    For the simplest explanation, we build a rotating glass disk with
a thin coating of HT superconductor.  For the stator we use the same
layout as before except that we keep the stator a little above Tc.
Now when the disk rotates, we can extract energy from the Casmir
force, then the film is heated crosses Tc, moves away from the stator
as a non-conductor and cools down.  Work is done to heat and cool the
superconducting film, but all the energy extracted comes from the
vacuum.

    Now for the bells and whistles.  If you put film and stators on
both sides of the disk, you can cancel out all torsion from the Casmir
Effect.  You might have to use active techniques to keep the gap
correct, but that is a detail.

   Second, you can replace the heater above with a permanent magnet.
There will be a repulsion from the magnetic field as the SC moves in,
but you will regain that on the other side as the SC exits the
magnetic field.  Got that?  Right, there's better.  Combine the two:
Heat the SC, then move it into the magnetic field, let it cool there,
then it will expel the magnetic field as it leaves it.  Remember that
work we were doing above to cross Tc?  Now we are recovering some of
it as useful rotational work.

   Now for the downsides. 

   1) There is no guarentee of "useful" OU performance.  Work is being
done.  The amount done will depend on properties of the
superconducting film, and the quality of the design.  The vacuum
energy recovered will depend on how close the film gets to the stator,
and how fast the superconductor can transition.  So both materials and
machining will be critical.  In any case, it should be possible to
show that energy is being extracted from the vacuum by running in a
calorimeter.

   2) With current HT superconductors this heat engine will run at 90
or 125 degrees Kelvin.  I doubt that the energy extracted from the
vacuum will be enough to make the process useful on Earth, even at the
North pole.  But it makes one hell of a power supply for interstellar
spacecraft!

   3) A similar heat engine can be made at high temperature which
depends on heating a magnetic coating above the Curie point in a
magnetic field.  However, to get a room temperature OU device will
take a film which changes from conductor to non-conductor with
temperature.  Any candidates?


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 14:44:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA04997; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:28:32 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:28:32 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33209694.24EB interlaced.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 17:28:36 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hheffner corecom.net
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: FARHAT'S THESIS
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"q71LS3.0._D1.DQ98p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4789
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi Horace and interested Vortexians all.  As a relentless SPARK ZAPPER,
I enjoyed browsing through FARHAT'S THESIS HOME PAGE at:

	http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/

For his almost complete thesis, check out the index at:

	http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/

Farhat Nadeem Beg seems to be into dense Z-pinch (DZP) work at the
Imperial College in London.  His thesis discusses good stuff like
fast, high-voltage, pulse-forming rigs; plasma diagnostics; a quick
introduction to many good plasma formulas; and many references.

Of interest to Vortexians may be discussion of "bright beads" along
electrically exploded filiments, some information on fast, ns level
current pulses, and the use of circulating, deionized water as a
dielectric for a high-voltage coax pulse-line.

The thesis chapters are available in html format with equations and
figures as separate gif files.  It looks like the whole thing is
there as a rtf file.  Hope it's of interest to some.

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 15:16:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA16035; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:03:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:03:42 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:02:47 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307180246_1482704932 emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise (Can improve S/N Ratio)
Resent-Message-ID: <"yB29q1.0.Tw3.Cx98p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4790
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Mitchell Swartz said (with regard to the phenomenon of stochastic resonance):

<<IMHO these references do not demonstrate that noise improves signal
detection accuracy
for those attempting to achieve semiquantitative measurements in purported
over-unity systems.>>

I agree;  I have not seen any utility for o/u systems in connection with
stochastic resonance.

Hal Puthoff


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 16:31:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA15710; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:18:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:18:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307191805_-802854262 emout20.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"MFqi62.0.Ir3.e1B8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4792
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Snip Barry's discussion ending with:

<<Now, it is important to note that I am not saying extracting 
useful energy from casimir forces is impossible. Indeed,
we know it is possible in principle---but only
using an irreversible cycle, like letting the plates come
together and then discarding the device. The same could of course
be done with charged plates in the Coulomb setting. Effort
towards a closed loop system seems totally wasted; one should
be considering how to do it effectively in a irreversible 
manner.>>

An excellent discussion, Barry, and exactly right.  The irreversible cycle I
have examined is letting dense electron charge clusters get constricted by a
Casimir pinch process, and then dumping them.  If what comes out from
converted Casimir input is greater than what it takes to ignite the charge
cluster process, then, as in nuclear fusion, one could in principle come out
ahead with this "Casimir electron fusion" process.

Hal Puthoff


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 16:36:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA25699; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:12:57 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:12:57 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:12:16 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307191216_-1339092605 emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"QuaOC3.0.TH6.7yA8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4791
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Snip most of Barry's 

<<Now, it is important to note that I am not saying extracting 
useful energy from casimir forces is impossible. Indeed,
we know it is possible in principle---but only
using an irreversible cycle, like letting the plates come
together and then discarding the device. The same could of course
be done with charged plates in the Coulomb setting. Effort
towards a closed loop system seems totally wasted; one should
be considering how to do it effectively in a irreversible 
manner.>>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 16:45:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA27635; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:26:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:26:15 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:25:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307192524_1149448339 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"UYOOX3.0.jl6.b8B8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4793
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Barry said (with regard to my comment on switching conductivity to dielectric
boundaries):

<<I fail to see the attraction of finding a closed cycle 
casmir-force based process??? (which I doubt can even exist,
since casimir is based on conservative E-M interactions;
actually, I'm surprise Scott L has to force this idea 
onto Hal P...I would have thought the other way around,
if anything :-)>>

Don't worry, I get the futility of the closed-cycle Casimir process :-)  I
saw the switching as a pseudo-irreversible process possibility:  let the
conductivity plates come together, then, instead of recycling them, throw
them away (by switching to dielectric).  Pulling the dielectric apart and
remaking it into a conductor would be the equivalent of constructing a new
set of plates for a repeat of the irreversible process.  I agree, could be a
flaky idea, but I would like to see the energetics of switching before I
throw it out altogether.  Maybe we can rebuild the tree out of the wood
splinters :-)

Hal Puthoff


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 16:58:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA30251; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:45:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:45:45 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <3320B6A3.41C67EA6 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 16:45:23 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <970307191805_-802854262 emout20.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Y2eqT.0.XO7.uQB8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4794
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Puthoff aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have examined is letting dense electron charge clusters 
> get constricted by a Casimir pinch process

That is a very interesting limit to consider. I have a question
related to that type of configuration:

Suppose I have a conducting body, like a solid metal sphere.
It has rejected all the fluctuating normal modes of the vacuum
EM field from its interior, yet it is bombarded by them at
its surface. Thus, it experiences a radiation pressure. This pressure 
must be enormous (well, infinite) because the vacuum field
carries an infinite amount of momentum ( hw/c for each photon,
and the number density of photons diverges as frquency w grows ). 

So, why are not all conducting objects instantly crushed 
by the enormous radiation pressure from the fluctuation field? 


-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 17:35:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA03177; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:21:57 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:21:57 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:21:34 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703080121.TAA08649 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"ggKkS3.0.Zn.myB8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4799
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 04:45 PM 3/7/97 -0800, Barry wrote:

>So, why are not all conducting objects instantly crushed 
>by the enormous radiation pressure from the fluctuation field? 

I'll jump in here, Hal.  Barry, only a tiny fraction of the ZPF photons are
in the right wavelength range to be affected by conductive metals.  Indeed
these are shielded by the sphere and a tiny compressive force results.  The
bulk of the energy in the ZPF is at terahertz and higher frequencies.  In
fact, the energy density increases cubically with frequency either (1)
without limit, or (2) up to the Plank frequency which I think is around
10^34 Hz.  Yes, this is a boggling concept. But Hal has had amazing success
in showing that it is all true.  Have you seen, for example, his paper which
demonstrates that the ground state of the electron in the H atom is simply
that orbit in which the power radiated by the electron as it continually
accelerates around the nucleus equals the power it absorbs from the ZPF?


 - Scott Little
 EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759
 512-342-2185 (voice)  512-346-3017 (FAX)  little eden.com (email)
 http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 17:36:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA30956; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:52:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:52:55 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:51:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307195137_885349169 emout18.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"uxj6i2.0.cZ7.cXB8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4796
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Scott wrote:

<<An example of a non-conservative force function is one whose value depends
upon the direction of travel....i.e. one that exhibits hysteresis.  If you
could have more force when the plates were approaching and less force when
they were coming apart, you'd have an engine.>>

Any way to do this with hysterical ( I mean hysteretic, or ...?) magnetic
plates? 

:-)

Hal Puthoff


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 17:37:35 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA32092; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:00:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:00:32 -0800
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:00:20 -0800
Message-Id: <199703080100.RAA29861 Au.oro.net>
X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien)
Subject: Re: Conference on Fundamental Structure of Universe
Resent-Message-ID: <"lK_M-.0.Mr7.keB8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4797
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Dear Vortexians;
>

Guess I forgot Rays actual web site, so here it is;

I haven't logged into it but I am certain he links from his stuff into the
conference.  I would expect he has a link from his main home page.  Any way,
here is the location;

-- Ray Tomes -- rtomes kcbbs.gen.nz -- Harmonics Theory --
http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/rtomes/rt-home.htm

Later, Ross Tessien

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 17:40:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA02174; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:19:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:19:49 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <3320BE9D.167EB0E7 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 17:19:25 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <970307192524_1149448339 emout03.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"C1gEs3.0.pX.pwB8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4798
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Puthoff aol.com wrote:
> 
> Barry said (with regard to my comment on switching conductivity to dielectric boundaries):
> 
> << I'm surprise Scott L has to force this idea [conservation]
> onto Hal P...>>
> 
> I saw the switching [conductive <-> dielectric] as a
> pseudo-irreversible process possibility:  let the
> conductivity plates come together, then... switch to dielectric,  
> Pull... the dielectric apart and remake it into a conductor...
> I would like to see the energetics of switching before I
> throw it out altogether. 

Actually, I never directly addressed this issue of switching between
conductor and nonconductor to sidestep energy conservation
in cyclical casimir engines. I was talking only about configuration
changes of bodies with given material properties.

This switching idea indeed cannot be ruled out by conservation
alone. Indeed, in good old electrostatics one can get the
same effect---*IF* there were a way to turn off and on charge
(with no energy cost), you can easily make an over unity device 
in electrostatics: let + & - charge come together doing work, turn
off charge, separate, recharge, and repeat. Another axiom, beyond
the conservative form of the coulomb force, is required to
rule out such devices, namely that charge transport is local. 
This is contained within other maxwell equations,
that say whenever charge density changes, there must be a corresponding
current created.

So, one does need to carefully consider whether it is possible
to turn on and off conductivity with no energy cost, particulalry
in relation to the casimir force. One general argument against such
a possibility might be possible by saying all matter and the
casimir force too are described by a QED theory with a conserved
hamiltonian, and therefore the switch from conductive to nonconductive
within such a theory will require some energy, just enough to keep
it all conserved. A less abstract view of the same thing could
be based on a stochastic electrodynamics model of the same process,
perhaps. In any case, this problem is worth thinking about, if
for no other reason to see what assumptions the energy cost
of swithing depends on, and whether it is a necessary consequence
of the theories thought to govern the casimir force (QED, or
in more limited cases, SED), just as the locality of charge
transport is a necessary consequence of the greater equations
believed to govern the electrostatic analog (i.e. maxwell's eqns),
but is independent of the conservative nature of the force itself.




-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 18:00:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA03339; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:28:13 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:28:13 -0800
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:28:02 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703080128.TAA09234 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"itjR-2.0.5q.h2C8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4800
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:51 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Puthoff wrote:
>
>Scott wrote:
>
><<An example of a non-conservative force function is one whose value depends
>upon the direction of travel....i.e. one that exhibits hysteresis.  If you
>could have more force when the plates were approaching and less force when
>they were coming apart, you'd have an engine.>>
>
>Any way to do this with hysterical ( I mean hysteretic, or ...?) magnetic
>plates? 

Good question.  If I'm not mistaken magnetic hysteresis is ALWAYS of the
wrong sign...i.e. you get less force when the magnet is approaching an iron
plate because the iron is "reluctant" to be magnetized.  Then when you
withdraw the magnet you get more force than you did going in because the
iron is "reluctant" to demagnetize. If this is positive hysteresis, then
what we are looking for is NEGATIVE HYSTERESIS!

 - Scott Little
 EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759
 512-342-2185 (voice)  512-346-3017 (FAX)  little eden.com (email)
 http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 18:54:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA01446; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:36:33 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:36:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530502af46806553f4 [199.237.131.221]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:39:39 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"UmP4C.0.SM.j2D8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4802
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 7:12 PM 3/7/97, Puthoff aol.com wrote:
>Snip most of Barry's
>
><<Now, it is important to note that I am not saying extracting
>useful energy from casimir forces is impossible. Indeed,
>we know it is possible in principle---but only
>using an irreversible cycle, like letting the plates come
>together and then discarding the device. The same could of course
>be done with charged plates in the Coulomb setting. Effort
>towards a closed loop system seems totally wasted; one should
>be considering how to do it effectively in a irreversible
>manner.>>

I would like to suggest the possibility of doing it in a manner that is
reversed using ambient heat.  For example, if small metal fragments could
be made to snap together by the Casimir force and radiate infr-red or other
light due to the kinetic energy of the approach, but then later be
separated by ambient thermal or chemical conditions, the locality would be
radiating energy at the expense of cooling.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 19:52:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA26445; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:35:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:35:00 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530504af468dfa84d3 [199.237.131.221]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:37:59 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"i_Wtf2.0.2T6.ZvD8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4804
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 7:21 PM 3/7/97, Scott Little wrote:
>At 04:45 PM 3/7/97 -0800, Barry wrote:
>
>>So, why are not all conducting objects instantly crushed
>>by the enormous radiation pressure from the fluctuation field?
>
>I'll jump in here, Hal.  Barry, only a tiny fraction of the ZPF photons are
>in the right wavelength range to be affected by conductive metals.  Indeed
>these are shielded by the sphere and a tiny compressive force results.  The
>bulk of the energy in the ZPF is at terahertz and higher frequencies.  In
>fact, the energy density increases cubically with frequency either (1)
>without limit, or (2) up to the Plank frequency which I think is around
>10^34 Hz.  Yes, this is a boggling concept. But Hal has had amazing success
>in showing that it is all true.  Have you seen, for example, his paper which
>demonstrates that the ground state of the electron in the H atom is simply
>that orbit in which the power radiated by the electron as it continually
>accelerates around the nucleus equals the power it absorbs from the ZPF?
>
>
> - Scott Little

So, what can be done with these photons besides absorb them and produce
attraction? It seems like they must have some use, like to pump a laser.
How about driving a circular laser?  What kinds of things can be done with
such high frequency photons?  Can they be reflected or refracted? Is there
a means for elastic vs inelastic collision?  There must be *some* property
that is useful for engineering, other than using the Casimir force for
welding.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 19:53:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA07761; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:28:40 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:28:40 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530503af4682cce461 [199.237.131.221]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:30:18 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"cs5vE.0.Bv1.bpD8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4803
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 5:19 PM 3/7/97, Barry Merriman wrote:
[snip]
>
>This switching idea indeed cannot be ruled out by conservation
>alone. Indeed, in good old electrostatics one can get the
>same effect---*IF* there were a way to turn off and on charge
>(with no energy cost), you can easily make an over unity device
>in electrostatics: let + & - charge come together doing work, turn
>off charge, separate, recharge, and repeat. Another axiom, beyond
>the conservative form of the coulomb force, is required to
>rule out such devices, namely that charge transport is local.
>This is contained within other maxwell equations,
>that say whenever charge density changes, there must be a corresponding
>current created.
>
[snip]
>--
>Barry Merriman


Another screwball idea along similar themes:

                                                                |
                                                 ---------------|-----
                                                 |              |    |
                   ------------------------------------------   |    |
                   |                                   ||   |   |    \
                   -------------------------------------|   |   |    /
             ---------------P--------------------P------|   |   |    \  R1
             |  x                                      ||   |   |    /
             ------------------------------------------------   |    |
                                                 |--------------|-----
                                                                |
                                                         Thermal Barrier


Looking again at the piezo tuning fork, suppose the top and bottom
conductive plates, insulated from each other, maintain separation by piezo
crystal pillars P.  The vibration of the plates would cause the piezos P to
induce an opposing charge on the top and bottom plates. As the plates swing
closer opposing charge is generated on the plates increasing the plate
attraction. The current from such a swing would go through a thermal
barrier and through resistance R1, dissipating the energy and charge
difference and heating a second compartment. The timing of the dissipation
could be delayed by adding an inductance in series with R1.  The motion of
the plates could be maintatined via collision with heavy gas molecules.

If the plates are close enough to be attracted by the Casimir force, then
this would add a hysteresis in the sense the pendulum could become stable.
This hysteresis might have utility in allowing the charge time to be
conducted.  The additional force provided by the Casimir force would add to
the energy extracted and put through R1, but would have to be an attraction
small enough that it could be overcome by subsequent molecular hits. A
bi-stable or layered version could also be built.

The extension x could be significantly longer than shown in order to
increase separation type hits.  In addition, barriers could be placed below
it to reduce high energy impacts from the bottom side.  Upon swinging apart
at attracting potential would be generated that would again, to some
extent, drive a current through R1.


Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 21:46:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA08740; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:35:34 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:35:34 -0800
Message-ID: <3321098F.258C rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:39:11 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Title page
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------221406D1948"
Resent-Message-ID: <"TG_TB3.0.T82.agF8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4806
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------221406D1948
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/f_thesis.html

--------------221406D1948
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="f_thesis.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="f_thesis.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/f_thesis.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/f_thesis.html">

<H1><blink><b>Hola guapo</b></blink></H1>
This page is under construction<br>
<hr><html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>Title page</title></head><body><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<center><b>OPTICAL AND X-RAY STUDIES OF </b><p>
<b>Z-PINCH PLASMAS</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>by<p>
<p>
<p>
Farhat Nadeem Beg<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
A thesis submitted in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the degree of
Doctor of Philosphy of the University of London and for the Diploma of
Membership of the Imperial College.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p></center>
<p>
<p>
Plasma Physics Group<p>
The Blackett Laboratory<p>
Imperial College<p>
London SW7 2BZ						August 1995<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p><hr>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p><center> <FONT SIZE=6>To My Parents</FONT> </center>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p><P>
<hr>
</body></html>
<A HREF="FT/contents/Listoffigures.html">list of figures</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/abstract/abstract.html">abstract</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/Chapter1/chapter1.html">Chapter 1</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/chapter2/chapter2.html">Chapter 2</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/chapter3/chapter3.html">Chapter 3</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/chapter4/chapter4.html">Chapter 4</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/chapter5/chapter5.html">Chapter 5</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/chapter6/chapter6.html">Chapter 6</A><br>
<A HREF="HTTP:FT/chapter7/chapter7.html">Chapter 7</A><br>
<A HREF="FT/zAcknowledgment.html">acknowledgements</A><br>

--------------221406D1948--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 21:50:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA11017 for billb@eskimo.com; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:49:51 -0800
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:49:51 -0800
X-Envelope-From: rmforall rt66.com  Fri Mar  7 21:49:43 1997
Received: from Rt66.com (root mack.rt66.com [198.59.162.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA10995 for <vortex-l@eskimo.com>; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:49:32 -0800
Received: from pmc15.rt66.com (pmh25.rt66.com [204.134.97.145]) by Rt66.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21373; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:50:40 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID: <33210CC9.64AC rt66.com>
Old-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:52:57 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Farhat spark exp.: Chapter 3
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7F093B5637"
X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------7F093B5637
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter3/chapter3.html

--------------7F093B5637
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="chapter3.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chapter3.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/chapter3/chapter3.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter3/chapter3.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>Chapter 3</title></head><body><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Chapter 3</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Experimental Results</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	In this chapter, the observations on the fibre z-pinch experiments are
presented. Three different fibres were used; 7 um, 33 um carbon and 25 um
diameter aluminium. The normal fibre length was 20 mm but this was reduced for
a few shots.<p>
<p>
	The electrical measurements are presented at first. These are followed by the
optical streak photography, schlieren and interferometric results. The x-ray
time integrated and the time resolved observations are also presented. An
estimate of the temperature of the bright spots is also made. Finally, the
results from observations of x-rays from the anode due to the electron beams at
the start of the current and later in time are presented. All times described
in the figures are referred to start of the current, i.e., t=0.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>3.1	Voltage and Current Waveforms</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	Figure 3.1(a) shows the voltage waveforms at the pulse forming line. As
expected, the voltage waveforms are identical for the two switches before
switch closure. Thereafter, during the subsequent ringing, some differences are
apparent. The voltage waveforms do not change for the fibre load and the short
circuit. The voltage at the transfer line has different rise times for the two
different switches as shown in figure 3.1(b). These voltage waveforms are
recorded when 7 um carbon fibres were used as a load. <p>
	<p>
	Figure 3.2 shows the current through a 1.5 mm stainless steel short circuit
and a 7 um carbon fibre for switches A &amp; B obtained from the Rogowski coil
situated in the anode. The current rise through fibres is slower than for the
short circuit presumably due to the higher inductance of the pinch. Also shown
in figure 3.2, the simulated current waveform for the current generator for
switch A. Figura [3.2] has measured a pre-pulse current of 2 kA for a short
circuit with switch A  The results are summarised below in table 3.1:<p>
<p>
Table 3.1<p>
Important features of the current waveforms<p>
	

<pre>
                              A                             B              
               Switch                        Switch                        
                Short          7 um carbon    Short          7 um carbon   
               circuit                       circuit                       
   Maximum           100 kA          100           100 kA         100 kA   
current                       kA                                           
    Rise              55 ns          60 ns           55 ns        60 ns    
time                                                                       
(10-90%)                                                                   
   Estimated           3 kA        1.7 kA              -           -       
pre-pulse                                                                  

</pre>

<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	33 um carbon and 25 um diameter aluminium fibres were also used for the
experiments when switch B was operational. Figure 3.3 shows the current through
these fibres as recorded by the Rogowski coil. The current shape is identical
for carbon fibres but for 25 um aluminium fibre, the peak value of the current
is less than that for carbon fibres. The current crowbars later in time due to
the breakdown across the perspex interface. <p>
<p>
<b>3.2    Optical Emission </b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The optical streak camera was used to study the optical emission from
the pinch.  The timing of the optical emission is obtained from the timing
fiducial on the streak camera and comparing it with the current waveform. In
radial streak photography, the pinch is imaged 5 mm from the cathode for switch
A, and in the centre for switch B. The thicker fibres were used only when
switch B was operational. In all of the figures, two sets of photographs are
given, one set is digitised to match the time scales of the images and the
second set is printed on photographic paper with the same magnification for
different images.<p>
<p>
<b>3.2.1</b>   <b>Radial streak photography</b> <p>
<p>
a)	<u>7 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
	Figures 3.4(a) and (b)  show the typical radial streak photographs for 7 um
carbon fibres for switches A &amp; B respectively. They show:  <p>
i)  		the optical emission starts at t=0 within the time resolution of the
diagnostic 			equipment <p>
ii)		with switch A, the pinch expands to a diameter of 180 um in 2.5 ns and
with 			switch B expands only to a diameter of 60 um in 2.5 ns<p>
iii) 	the initial expansion velocities are 3.6 x 10<sup>4</sup> m
s<sup>-1</sup> and 1.2 x 10<sup>4</sup> m s<sup>-1</sup><p>
iv) 	the optical emission is modulated <p>
v) 		the corona and the core are separately distinguishable <p>
vi) 	the final diameter of the corona is approximately 540 um and 470 um
respectively<p>
vi) 	the total duration of the optical emission is 35 ns and 65 ns
respectively. <p>
<p>
	Figure 3.4(c) shows a streak photograph with a reduced fibre length of 14 mm.
First, there is a modulated emission but after 13 ns, the light emission is
continuous. At about 26 ns , the fibre expands rapidly. The shorter fibre
expands to a greater diameter than the normal fibre. The characteristics of the
optical radial streak observations are summarised in table 3.2.<p>
<p>
b)	<u>33 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<p>
	Figure 3.5(a) shows a typical streak photograph for a 33 um carbon fibre.
Generally , optical emission starts at t=0 ns. The pinch expands with a
velocity of 1 x 10<sup>4</sup> m s<sup>-1</sup>. The optical emission is
modulated. The pinch expands to a maximum diameter of about 490 um. The
important features are shown in table 3.3.<p>
<p>
Table 3.2<p>
Important parameters from radial streak photographs for 7 um carbon fibre<p>


<pre>
                              Switch      Switch    Switch B (reduced        
                           A           B           length)                   
 Time of emission                t=0        t=0                    t=0       
 Initial expansion            ~3.6       ~1.2 x                  ~1.2 x 104  
velocity                   x104        104                                   
(m s-1)                                                                      
 No of modulations                 3           4                     6       
 Maximum diameter of             540        470                  650 um      
core                       um          um                                    
 Duration of optical             35          65                  &gt;52 ns      
emission                   ns          ns                                    

</pre>
<p>
*  Information for each case in the table is average of two discharges<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
Table 3.3<p>
Important parameters from radial streak photograph for 33 um carbon fibre<p>


<pre>
        Shot Number                                 
                          S106                      
Time of optical emission               t=0          
Initial expansion                           ~1 x    
velocity                  104 m s-1                 
No of modulations                         5         
Maximum diameter                       500 um       
Duration of emission                     &gt;82 ns     

</pre>
<p>
* This data is collected from two typical shots.<p>
<p>
c)	<u>25 um aluminium fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
	Figure 3.5(b) shows a very different behaviour. The optical emission begins at
t=0. Unlike carbon fibres, the expansion of the pinch is uniform and the
expansion velocity is 1.5 x 10<sup>4</sup> m/s. There are no modulations of the
light. <p>
 <p>
	The important features of 25 um aluminium fibres are exhibited in table 3.4.
The plots of pinch radius against time for three different fibres are shown in
figure 3.6(a) and (b). <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
Table 3.4<p>
Important features of radial streak photography for 25 um aluminium fibre<p>


<pre>
                                          S120      
    Time of emission                       t=0      
    Expansion velocity               1.5 x 104 m    
                          s-1                       
    Maximum diameter                    770 um      
    Duration of                         &gt; 300 ns    
emission                                            

</pre>
*
 This data is average of two discharges. Other shots are recorded with the
slower streak speed, i.e., 7.5 ns/mm.<p>
<p>
<b>3.2.2	Axial streak photography</b><u></u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>a)	<u>7 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>	 Figures 3.7(a) and (b) show typical streak photographs for switches A
&amp; B. Both streak photographs show that the light appears at t=0. The
optical emission becomes more localised at about 7 ns. These localised regions,
which we shall call bright spots, subdivide and move axially with a velocity of
~ 3 x 10<sup>5</sup> m s<sup>-1</sup>. The bright spots appear to move axially
at a greater velocity near the cathode than that near the anode. The total
duration of the optical emission is 35 ns for switch A and 65 ns for switch B.
<p>
<p>
	The streak photograph for switch B shows that breakdown first takes place near
the cathode and after 4 ns it appears near the anode. The bright spots appear
in two stages separated by a time interval of 10 ns, the first stage bright
spots appear at 7 ns and the second stage intense bright spots appear at about
18 ns, unlike for switch A where bright spots appear at more or less regular
intervals after 7 ns. These bright <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
spots bifurcate, sometimes recombine and become brighter again. Intense
emission from the electrodes has also been observed and lasts for more than 100
ns.<p>
<p>
	The axial motion of the bright spots observed in axial streak photographs
suggest that the modulated emission seen in the radial streak photographs is
due to the axial motion of the bright spots in the view of the entrance slit of
streak camera. <p>
<p>
	The observations made with optical streak photography for 7 um carbon fibres
for the two switches are summarised in table 3.5.<p>
<p>
b)	<u>33 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
	Figure 3.8(a) shows that, like 7 um carbon fibre, the optical emission begins
at t=0 and the emission from the bright spots is in two stages. The first stage
bright spots appear at approximately 7 ns and the intense bright spots appear
at approximately 28 ns. These bright spots subdivide into two or three and move
axially with a velocity of 1 x 10<sup>5</sup> m s<sup>-1</sup>. The average
duration of optical emission is for more than 240 ns. Fewer bright spots are
observed compared to 7 um carbon fibre. The general characteristics of 33 um
carbon fibrees are shown in table 3.5 <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
Table 3.5<p>
<p>
Important features of axial streak photography<p>


<pre>
                                 7 um                  7            33 um   
                         (pre-pulse)      um               (pre-pulse       
                                          (pre-pulse       free)            
                                          free)                             
Time of optical                   t=0 ns            -                 -     
emission       near                                                         
the cathode                                                                 
 Time of optical                  4 ns               -                -     
emission        near                                                        
the anode                                                                   
   Time of appearance             7 ns              7 ns            7 ns    
of     optical bright                                                       
spots                                                                       
      Life time of                2 ns             4 ns            15 ns    
optical                                                                     
bright spots                                                                
   Time of appearance              -            17-20 ns         25-30 ns   
of      intense bright                                                      
spots                                                                       
     Axial velocities        3 x105 m         3 x105 m        1 x105 m s-1  
of           bright      s-1              s-1                               
spots                                                                       
 No of intense bright               7                10             3       
spots                                                                       
        Duration of              35 ns             65 ns           &gt;200 ns  
optical emission                                                            

</pre>
<p>
*  The data for switch A is the average behaviour for five shots and for switch
B is for 10 shots.<p>
<p>
c)	<u>25 um aluminium fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
	Figure 3.8(b) shows a different behaviour as seen in radial streak
photographs. The optical emission begins at t=0 and is less localised. There is
a slower axial motion. The average duration of the localised optical emission
is for more <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
than 300 ns. This explains the uniform expansion of the pinch seen in radial
streak photograph. <p>
<p>
<b>3.3  Optical Probing</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>	</b>Single shot schlieren photography and interferometry was performed when
switch B was operational. The plasma was probed with a 7 ns ruby laser pulse.
The laser was chopped to 2 ns pulse length for some shots.  The results are
described below:<p>
<p>
<b>3.3.1 Schlieren Photography</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>a)       <u>7 um carbon fibre</u><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Figure 3.9(a) shows a set of single shot schlieren photographs taken on
different discharges at various times. At early time, there is an axial
structure and at this time the expansion velocity is 3.6<b> </b>x
10<sup>4</sup> m s<sup>-1</sup> (c.f. radial streaks), this axial structure
emerges into instabilities and these are fully developed at 12 ns. These
perturbations are axis symmetric indicating m=0 instability. These expand and
the distance between them also increases with time. These instabilities change
into density islands at about 94 ns. The diameter of the islands is about 2 mm
and the axial length is 1.5 mm. At this time optical emission was not observed
in optical streak photographs. Schlieren images after 107 ns shows that only
one density island has survived. This shows that the density islands disappear
at different times though their life time is long (20 - 30 ns). Plasma was not
observed after 130 ns. Only self emission from the capillary was observed.
Figure 3.9(b) shows ka (product of the wavelength and the radius of the
instabilities) versus time.<p>
<p>
	An estimate of the density is obtained from the schlieren images where the
refractive index gradient causes the laser beam to deviate. The deviation of
the laser beam depends on the density gradient of the plasma. Schmidt and
Ruckle [3.1] gives the relationship  between the deflection and the electron
density ne as,<p>
<p>
		
<IMG SRC="chapter31.gif"><b>
					</b><p>
where C1 is a constant and for a parabolic density profile is 1 and nc is the
critical density.<p>
<p>
	The maximum density that can be measured by schlieren photography depends on
the acceptance angle (diameter of lens/distance of the lens from the plasma).
In the present experiments, <p>
<p>
		[[alpha]]max = 0.019     (rad)				<p>
<p>
where [[alpha]]max is the maximum deviation of the beam detected by the
schlieren system.<p>
<p>
	For a ruby laser the critical density is 3.61 x 10<sup>27</sup> m<sup>-3</sup>
and from Eq. 4.1, the maximum detectable density is,<p>
<p>
		ne= 6.7 x 10<sup>25 </sup> m<sup>-3   </sup>				<p>
	The minimum electron density may be obtained knowing the stop diameter and the
focal length of the lens used to focus the image on the stop. The diameter of
the stop and the focal length of the lens were 500 um and 1 meter respectively.
Hence the sensitivity is,<p>
		[[alpha]] = 2.5 10<sup>-4</sup>     rad<p>
	This gives the minimum electron density assuming parabolic density profile
that can be recorded, <p>
<p>
		ne=9.0 x 10<sup>23</sup>  m<sup>-3</sup><p>
<p>
	The schlieren photograph at 12 ns shows that the diameter of the instabilities
is 840 um. Taking the initial electron line density to be 2.76 x
10<sup>19</sup> m<sup>-1</sup>, the <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
corresponding electron density is 4.9 x 10<sup>25 </sup>m<sup>-3</sup> which
reasonably close to the maximum value.<p>
<p>
    
<IMG SRC="chapter32.gif"><p>
	   Figure 3.9(b). ka versus time for 7 um carbon fibre.<p>
<p>
b)	<u>33 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>	Figure 3.10 shows a set of single shot schlieren images at various
times. The following observations were made:<p>
i)	 Unlike 7 um carbon fibre, perturbations are not observable even at 34 ns<p>
ii)	Perturbations appear on the surface at about 46 ns. The central core is
also 	visible which could be due to higher density than the critical density of
the 	laser pulse or 	that the density gradient is so high that the rays go out
of the 	collecting lens. <p>
iii) 	Expansion is slower. <p>
iv)	Pinch diameter is larger and the density gradient is localised near the
surface. 	As time increases, the structure becomes more and more turbulent.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
v)	Unlike 7 um carbon fibre, fewer instabilities are observed and density
islands 	are not observed even at 146 ns. This is most probably due to the
higher line 	density of the fibre. Emission is also observed at this time in
optical streak 	photographs.<p>
vi)	The core is visible even at 146 ns.<p>
<p>
c)	<u>25 um aluminium fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>	Figure 3.11 shows a set of single shot schlieren photographs for
several times. Perturbations are visible at about 59 ns, at this time the
diameter of the pinch is 2 mm. Perturbations grow slowly as compared to the
carbon fibres. Like the 33 um carbon fibre, fewer instabilities are observed.
The average diameter of the instabilities is about 15 mm at 189 ns. The
instabilities start to diffuse out at about 244 ns.<p>
<p>
<b>3.3.2   Interferometry</b><p>
<p>
	Figure 3.12 shows a set of single shot interferograms taken for different
discharges at various times for 7 um diameter carbon fibres. The first
interferogram is without the generator being fired but with the fibre in
position. The second interferogram at 12 ns shows the core surrounded by a low
density plasma. The density is so high in the core that fringes are not
resolvable. The interferogram at 33 ns shows that the corona has expanded to a
diameter of 2 mm at some axial positions. The fringes in the core, which is 100
um in radius, are not resolvable. The electron number density at the edge of
the core is about 8 x 10<sup>24</sup> m<sup>-3</sup>. The density at the radius
of 500 um is 1 x 10<sup>24</sup> m<sup>-3</sup>. The density perturbations are
distributed along the fibre axis. This compares well with the schlieren
photograph at 12 ns which shows that the instability is distributed along the
fibre axis. The plot of the number density against the radius is shown in
figure 3.13(a).<p>
<p>
	<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	The interferogram at 84 ns clearly shows that the instability has taken the
form of islands. The islands are also observed in the schlieren photograph at
94 ns. Optical  emission is not observed at this time in streak photographs.
The density in some islands is so high that the fringes are not resolvable. The
diameter of the islands is between 2-4 mm which is in good agreement with the
islands observed in schlieren photographs. Figure 3.13(b) shows the plot of the
electron density at three axial positions along the pinch axis. The maximum
number density at a radius of 275 um is 1.25 x 10<sup>25</sup> m<sup>-3</sup>
and in the centre exceeds 2 x 10<sup>25</sup> m<sup>-3</sup>. There is a small
fringe shift in some regions in between the density islands. This is in
agreement with the schlieren image which shows no density gradient between the
islands (presumably density gradient is below the detection level).   <p>
<b></b><p>
<b>3.4 	X-Ray Obsrevations</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The x-ray emission from the pinch was observed using the six channel
time integrated pinhole camera, the filtered PIN diodes and the x-ray streak
camera. The observations are described below:<p>
<p>
<b>3.4.1  The x-ray time integrated pinhole photography and the filtered 	PIN
diode signals</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>a)	<u>7 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<u></u><b></b><p>
<b></b> 	Figure 3.14 shows repositioned four images taken for a single
discharge, the filter transmissions are also shown with each image. The
following observations were made:<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
i)	Clear indication of bright spots that are non-uniformly distributed along
the 	fibre axis.<p>
ii)	Different spots emit differently<p>
iii)	Images with the filters which do not transmit line radiation
(characteristic and 	recombination) are not bright and not pinhole limited.
This indicates that the 	emission is mainly due to the line radiation . <p>
iv)	Hard x-ray emission from the anode is over a large area and from the
cathode 	is only from a spot.<p>
iv)	Large emission from the capillary is also observed.<p>
v)	Average number of bright spots is 10.<p>
vi)	Bright spots are axially elongated. <p>
vii)	The diameter of the pinch for soft x-ray filters is about 300 um.<p>
viii) 	The x-ray yield from pinhole images for photon energy of &gt;= 1 keV is
40 mJ 	and for the filters (cut off ~ 500 eV) which transmit line radiation is
6 J.<p>
<p>
	In order to study the effect of pinch length on the dynamics of the pinch, the
fibre length was reduced in steps. Figure 3.15 shows four images which
demonstrate x-ray variation with fibre length by introducing the capillary
further through the anode. All the images are with the same x-ray filter. When
the length was reduced to 12 mm, the x-rays from the capillary and the anode
were so hard that these passed through a 2 mm brass strip which has a cut off
energy of 100 keV. The x-ray emission from the cathode is also evident. The
emission intensity of the bright spots also increased with decrease in pinch
length.<p>
<p>
	Figures 3.16(a) and (c) show the collimated filtered PIN diode signals and the
sensitivity of the PIN diode. The following filters were used:- <p>
PIN 1: 2 um mylar + 250 nm copper and<p>
PIN 2: 6 um mylar + 0.8 um aluminium <p>
<p>
	<p>
	<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	X-rays appear at about 5 ns. Different peaks corresponds to the intense bright
spots that appear at different times. The X-rays yield at 900 eV is about 70
mJ. <p>
 <p>
b)	<u>33 um carbon Fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>	Figures 3.17 &amp; 3.18 show two sets of x-ray images. Comparing with
figure 3.14 for 7 um carbon fibre, it is evident that<p>
<p>
i)	Low energy emission from 33 um carbon fibre is from a larger diameter (460
um as compared to 300 um for 7 um carbon fibre).<p>
ii)	Like 7 um carbon fibre, different spots emit differently.<p>
iii)	Unlike 7 um carbon fibres, fewer bright spots are observed and this fact
has 	also been seen in schlieren images.<p>
iv)	Bright spots are intense when there is an emission from anode due to the
electron beam.<p>
v)	Like 7 um carbon fibre, most of the x-ray emission is due to the line
radiation 	(characteristic and recombination).<p>
vi)	The average x-ray yield for photon energies &gt;= 1 keV is about 30 mJ and
for a 	cut off  energy of 500 eV is 10 J.<p>
<p>
	Figure 3.16(b) shows the collimated filtered PIN diode signal for 33 um carbon
fibre. The x-rays appear at about 20 ns and are in the form of pulses. The
x-ray filter used here is relatively hard as compared to the filter used for 7
um carbon fibre. <p>
<p>
c)	<u>25 um aluminium fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
	Figure 3.19 shows six images recorded with several pinhole diameters and
various filters of different z-material and thickness. The following
observations were made;<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
i)	Like 33 um carbon fibre, fewer bright spots are observed.<p>
ii)	These bright spots are much bigger in size compared to the bright spots
observed in carbon fibre images. <p>
iii)	Images are pinhole limited with the filters which do not transmit lower
energy 	line radiation.<p>
iv)	Filters which transmit only K shell lines show only a very faint image
indicating that most probably the pinch is not fully ionised.<p>
v)	Weak x-ray emission from the anode and the capillary<p>
vi)	The x-ray yield for photon energies  &gt;= 1 keV is 160 mJ. It was not
possible to 	calculate the x-ray yield for lower x-ray energies because the
images were 	saturated. This shows that the x-ray yield below photon energies
of &lt;= 1 keV is 	much higher compared to carbon fibres.<p>
<p>
	This is the general behaviour observed for 25 um aluminium fibres. Two out of
25 shots showed different behaviour. Figure 3.20 shows six pinhole images from
one of these shots. The comparison of figures 3.19 and 3.20 shows that there is
more prominent anode emission showing a more energetic/greater intensity
electron beam than a typical shot. There are fewer perturbation which emit low
energy x-rays. The emission from the pinch column is of higher energy and it is
visible with filters with cut off energy above 15 keV. This shows that the
temperature of the column is much higher than the bright spot temperature.
Table 3.6 shows the x-ray yield for three fibres.<p>
<p>
Table 3.6<p>
Comparison of x-ray yields for different fibres<p>


<pre>
                       X-ray yield &lt; 1     X-ray yield &gt; 1     
                       keV                 keV                 
7 um carbon fibre                  6 J               40 mJ     
33 um carbon fibre                10 J                30 mJ    
25 um aluminium                    NM                 160 mJ   
fibre                                                          

</pre>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>3.4.2   X-ray Streak Photography</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	The x-ray streak photography was performed with x-ray filters which transmit
the line radiation (characteristic and recombination) and also with  relatively
harder filters. This was because of the camera sensitivity and source
brightness. Simultaneous optical and x-ray observations were also made:-<p>
<p>
a)	<u>7 um carbon Fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
	Figure 3.21 shows two x-ray streak photographs with time integrated pinhole
camera images recorded simultaneously. The following observations were made:<p>
i)	Emission begins at the cathode and proceeds towards the anode <p>
ii)	Like optical streak photographs, there are two stages of x-ray bright
spots. 	The first stage appears at about 7-8 ns with intense bright spots
appearing at 	about 18-25 ns. <p>
iii)	The bright spots appearing earlier in time a have a life time of less than
1 ns, 	and later bright spots emit high energy x-rays for less than 1 ns, but
soft x-ray 	emission lasts longer. <p>
iv)	Like optical bright spots, x-ray bright spots move axially with a velocity
of 3 x 	10<sup>5</sup> m s<sup>-1</sup>.<p>
v)	X-ray emission from the pinch lasts for 45 ns<p>
vi)	X-ray emission from the capillary is pulsed and each pulse lasts for 20
ns.<p>
vii)	Each bright spot in the time integrated pinhole image is correlated with
the x-	ray streak bright spot.<p>
<p>
	Figures 3.22-23 shows simultaneous optical streak, time integrated pinhole and
x-ray streak photographs. The digitised images are changed to different
magnifications in order to show the correlation. These images show one to one
correlation of the optical and the x-ray bright spots. Both optical and x-ray
bright spots are observed to bifurcate. The bright spots emit energetic x-rays
for &lt;= 1 ns and<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
 the intensity decreases when these bifurcate. There is no optical and x-ray
emission from the pinch after 65 ns. The elongated bright spots in the time
integrated pinhole photograph are those which bifurcate. The perturbations are
observed to grow even after the optical and x-ray emission is not detectable by
the streak cameras. Figure 3.24 shows that the density in the core is high even
when the emission from optical bright spots starts to diffuse out. The corona
extends to a diameter of 1 mm at this time. Figure 3.25 shows that the some of
the bright spots are spatially coincident with the density islands. The x-ray
bright spots are also spatially and temporally coincident with the optical
bright spots. <p>
<p>
b)	<u>33 um carbon Fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>	Typical x-ray streak photographs with time integrated pinhole images
are shown in figure 3.26. This shows, that like optical bright spots, there are
two stages of x-ray bright spots. The first stage appears at about 7 ns as in 7
um carbon fibres but the second stage appears later at about 28-35 ns. This
timing is similar to the optical bright spots. Each x-ray bright spot in the
time integrated image is spatially coincident with the bright spot in the x-ray
streak photograph. There are fewer bright spots observed, and this is in
agreement with the optical streak and schlieren photography observations. X-ray
streak photographs with the softer filters show longer life time for the bright
spots. When harder x-ray filters were used, it is observed that they emit for
&lt;= 1 ns. Hence, the bright spots emit energetic x-rays for a period of less
than 1 ns. These bright spots are also observed to subdivide into two or three
and move axially with a velocity of 1 x 10<sup>5</sup> m s<sup>-1</sup>.
Emission persists for longer and at late time is more diffuse. The emission
from the anode/capillary is neither intense nor modulated as for 7 um carbon
fibre.<p>
<p>
	Figure 3.27 shows simultaneous optical and x-ray observations. There are fewer
bright spots observed which is in agreement with the previous results. The
optical and the x-ray bright spot are spatially and temporally coincident. The
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
perturbations are seen at the same spatial position where optical and x-ray
bright spots existed. The schlieren image at 64 ns shows that the core still
exists though optical and x-ray emission have faded away. Duration of soft
x-ray emission is longer. The emission from the anode is weak.<p>
<p>
<u>c)</u>	<u>25 um aluminium fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
	Figure 3.28 shows two x-ray streak photographs along with the time integrated
pinhole images. The following results were obtained:<p>
i)	The x-ray streak photograph with a filter which transmit the line radiation
shows that the soft x-ray emission begins along the length of the fibre at
about 	10 ns.<p>
ii)	The intense x-ray bright spots appear at about 45 ns.<p>
iii)	Like 33 um carbon fibre, only fewer bright spots are observed. <p>
iv)	The x-ray bright spot emit hard x-rays for less than 1 ns followed by a
longer 	period of soft x-ray emission.<p>
v)	Each bright spots in the x-ray time integrated pinhole image is spatially
coincident  with the bright spot in the x-ray streak photograph.<p>
vi)	Weak emission is seen from the anode and the capillary.<p>
vii)	Soft x-ray emission lasts for more than 100 ns and emission from the
bright 	spots above 1 keV lasts for 45 ns.<p>
viii)	The x-ray bright spots that appear elongated in the time integrated x-ray
image 	are those that appear at slightly different axial positions at different
times.<p>
<p>
	Figures 3.29-3.30 shows simultaneous optical and x-ray observations. The
optical emission is less localised and appears at about 10 ns. The x-ray bright
spots appear at about 45 ns and are more localised. Perturbations observed at
132 ns in the schlieren photograph are spatially coincident with the x-ray
bright spots which appeared at about 45 ns.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>3.5  Bright Spot Temperature</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	The two filter method was used to measure the temperature of the bright spots.
This procedure has been discussed in detail by many authors [3.2-3.4]. Several
filters pairs were used to record images for the temperature measurement but
results from two filter pairs are shown here. Figure 3.31(a) shows the double
pinhole image for a 7 um carbon fibre. The filters used were:<p>
<p>
Image 1		200 um pinhole and 2.5 um Zn filter<p>
Image 2		200 um pinhole and 6 um mylar + 1.6 um Al filter<p>
<p>
	These filters sample the x radiation between the K-edge of aluminium and the L
edge of zinc. The line out of the images and the sensitivity of the detectors
are shown in figures 3.31(b) &amp; (c).<p>
<p>
	A second set of filters was used to sample the radiation in different spectral
ranges.  The filters used were:<p>
<p>
Image 1		200 um pinhole and 2.5 um Zn filter<p>
Image 2		200 um pinhole and 2 um Ni filter<p>
<p>
	These filters sample radiation between the L-edge of nickel and zinc. The
temperatures obtained from this filter pair are shown in table 3.7.<p>
<p>
	The Bremsstrahlung and recombination spectrum was calculated. The ratio of the
signals was calculated using the sensitivity of the detector and the filter
transmission. Figure 3.32(a) shows the calculated ratio of the signals for the
first set of filters for various temperatures. The experimental signal ratio
against temperature is shown in figure 3.32(b). The comparison of the two
ratios for the first set of filter pair gives a temperature of bright spots
ranging from 75-135 eV for 7 um carbon fibre and <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
80-100 eV for 33 um carbon fibre. Table 3.7 shows the temperature obtained with
different sets of filters for carbon fibres for different shots.<p>
<p>
Table 3.7<p>
Bright spot temperature using two filter method<p>


<pre>
        Filter Pair             7 um carbon fibre    33 um carbon fibre     
  2.5 um Zn  &amp; 6 um mylar          75 - 135 eV        80 - 100 eV           
       plus 1.6 um Al                                                       
    2.5 um Zn &amp; 2 um Ni            75 - 110 eV        50-75 eV              

</pre>
<p>
<b>3.6	Electron Beams</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	Two electron beams have been observed, one at the start of the current and the
second after 20 ns. The details of both beams are given below: <p>
<p>
<b>3.6.1	Electron Beam due to Diode Action </b><p>
<b></b><u></u><p>
<u></u> 	The temporal information of the electron beam on the initiation of the
current was obtained from scintillator/photomultiplier set up. The details of
the electron beam current were obtained from the thermoluminescent dosimeters.
<p>
<p>
	The thermoluminescent dosimeters were placed around the experimental setup at
different distances, and several materials were used as a filter. The
arrangement of the radiation dosimeters was as follows:<p>
<p>
TLD1			250 cm from the pinch with 4 cm dural filter<p>
TLD2			20 cm from the pinch and 4 cm dural+1 cm aluminium filter<p>
TLD3			20 cm from the pinch and 2.5 cm dural filter<p>
TLD4			40 cm above the pinch and 0.5 cm aluminium filter<p>
TLD5			300 cm from the pinch and 3 cm dural filter<p>
<p>
TLD1 and TLD5 did not show any dose, TLD2 and TLD3 showed small dose. TLD4
showed an appreciable dose of 1.1 mS for 30 shots in a month. This corresponds
to a dose of 975 uR at a distance of 1 meter.<p>
 <p>
	Figure 3.33(a) shows the hard x-ray signals obtained from the
scintillator/photomultiplier setup. This shows a peak at the start of the
current; this signal arrives 10 ns after the current signal due to delays in
the scintillator itself and delay in the response of the photomultiplier. The
PM/scintillator signals were detected with 5.5 mm Al plus 5.5 mm stainless
steel as a filter. This places the energy of the electron beam above 50 keV.
The hard x-ray signals were recorded only for carbon fibres but on average
signal was not recorded for 25 um aluminium fibres. When the filter thickness
was reduced to 5.5 mm aluminium (cut off energy ~ 35 keV), multiple peaks were
observed for carbon fibres. The transmission curves for these filters are shown
in figure 3.33(b). For a 7 um carbon fibre, the first signal was observed at
the start of the current with a FWHM of 30 ns and the second signal arrives
towards the current peak.  For 33 um carbon fibre, the first pulse is sharp
with FWHM of 10 ns and the second pulse appears after 65 ns. Only one pulse is
seen for 25 um aluminium fibre at the start of the current and is much smaller
in magnitude as compared to the pulses for carbon fibres; the FWHM of this
pulse is about 12 ns. But there is shot-to-shot variation.<p>
<p>
	In order to calculate the electron beam current, the relation between charge
and dose recorded is used from NRL formulary [3.5]<p>
<p>
				
<IMG SRC="chapter33.gif"><p>
<p>
where D is the dose in rads, V is the voltage in MV, Q is the charge and Z is
the atomic number of the target. In this experiment Vmax was 200 kV and Z was
29. This gives a charge of 1.2 x 10<sup>-4</sup> Coulomb. The photomultiplier
signals gives a pulse of width 30 ns and this corresponds to an electron beam
current of 4 kA. <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	This can be compared with the space charge limited current density between the
parallel plates,<p>
<p>
				
<IMG SRC="chapter34.gif">
     A cm<sup>-2</sup><p>
<sup></sup><p>
where J is the current density in A/cm<sup>2</sup> and d is the separation of
the plates in cm. For a voltage of 0.2 MV and plate separation of 2 cm. The
current density is 52 A/cm<sup>2</sup>. The diameter of the electrodes is 7.6
cm. This gives current of 3.0 kA. The two values are quite close, the current
may be space charge limited.<p>
 <p>
<p>
<b>3.6.2	Electron Beam associated with the Plasma</b><u></u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>	The electron beam energy was calculated by considering the
Bremsstrahlung and the characteristic line radiation spectrum of the anode and
the capillary [3.2-3.4, 3.6-3.8]. The capillary is made of stainless steel
which consists of 74% Fe, 18% Ni and 8% Cr, the brass anode consists of 63%
copper and 37% zinc. Figure 3.34 shows the spectrum for 16 keV and 7 keV
electron beams. <p>
<p>
	The experimental ratio was obtained from the x-ray time integrated pinhole
images, shown in figure 3.35(a). The filters for the pinhole camera were as
follows:<p>
<p>
Left Image		500 um pinhole and  10 um Cu filter<p>
Middle Image		500 um pinhole and 40 um Ti filter<p>
<p>
Right Image		1 mm  pinhole and  5 um Ta filter<p>
<p>
	Only the left and the middle images were used for the electron beam analysis.
The lineout of the images and the sensitivity of the detectors are shown in
figure 3.35(b) &amp; (c). The left filter allows all the K shell transition
lines and continuum in this energy region to pass through while the other
filter attenuates their transmission. More than 90 percent of the x-rays from
the anode lie in the energy window for the chosen filters and this is also
clear from the images shown in figure 3.35(a). <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	Figures 3.36(a) and (b) show the spectral signal seen by the DEF film and the
ratio of the signals against the electron beam energy. The signal ratio is
calculated by taking the spectrum due to various electron beam energies. This
spectrum includes x-rays due to continuum and the characteristic line
radiation. The transmission of the filters and the sensitivity of the detectors
were also taken into account. The electron beam energy is obtained by comparing
the theoretical ratio with the experimental ratio. The results are presented in
table 3.8. <p>
<p>
Table 3.8<p>
Comparison of the electron beam energies for thinner and thicker fibres<p>


<pre>
            Fibre     Electron beam         
                      energy                
       7 um carbon            16<IMG SRC="chapter35.gif">2 keV      
     33 mm carbon             7 <IMG SRC="chapter36.gif">2 keV      
 25 um aluminium               7 <IMG SRC="chapter37.gif">2 keV     

</pre>
<p>
	It was observed that there are some variation in the results from
shot-to-shot. For 33 um carbon and 25 um aluminium fibre very intense emission
from the anode is observed with about the same intensity as for 7 um carbon
fibres for few discharges. Some 33 um carbon fibre shots show that the ratio of
the signals is comparable to 16 keV electron beam energy. These results were
also checked by taking the spectrum due to the brass anode and combining it
with the filter transmission and the detector response.<p>
<p>
	The time integrated pinhole images were also used to calculate the x-rays
produced from the anode. The x-rays from the anode above 5 keV are estimated to
be 5.5 mJ. From the filtered PIN diode signal, the duration of x-ray pulse is
about 50 ns. This corresponds to a 110<b> </b>kW source. From NRL formulary
[3.5], the x-ray <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
conversion efficiency is [[eta]]=7 x 10<sup>-4 </sup>ZV, for steel Z=26 and the
electron beam voltage 16 kV. This yields a conversion efficiency of 0.029%.<b>
</b>This corresponds to an electron beam power of 0.38 GW.<p>
<p>
	The uncollimated filtered PIN diode signal for the electron beam and the
sensitivity of the detector are shown in figure 3.37(a) &amp;(b). The PIN diode
signal shows that x-ray emission from the anode is in the form of pulses. This
has been observed in x-ray streak photographs. The signal measured by the PIN
diode detector per electron incident upon the anode is shown in figure 3.37(c).
The filtered PIN diode signal shows that the peak voltage is 35 volts and the
impedance of the circuit is 50 ohm. This gives total charge of 35 nC collected
by the PIN diode. The solid angle of the PIN diode is 9 x 10<sup>-4</sup> str.,
this gives a charge of 3.88 x 10<sup>-5</sup> Coulomb/str. The sensitivity from
figure 3.37(c) at 16 keV electron beam energy is 6.0 x 10<sup>-21</sup>
coulomb/electrons/str. The total number of electrons that hit the anode over 50
ns duration is 6.4 x 10<sup>15</sup>. This corresponds to an electron beam
current of 20 kA. <p>
<p>
<b>3.7  Summary</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The pinch was seen to expand with the velocity of ~ 10<sup>4</sup> m/s.
The instability was observed to appear at approximately 7-8 ns of the current
start. The perturbations were observed to start growing at 4 ns for 7 um carbon
fibres. The density islands was observed to disappear at 130 ns for 7 um carbon
fibres but density perturbations were detectable even after 130 ns for thicker
fibres. The temperature of the bright spots ranged between 75-135 eV for 7 um
carbon fibres and 80 - 100 eV for 33 um carbon fibre.<p>
<p>
	Two electron beams are observed in the case of carbon fibre. First at the
start of the current consistent with 4 kA, &gt; 50 keV, and the second before
the appearance of bright spots consistent with 20 kA, 16 keV.  <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>References</b><p>
<p>
[3.1]	<p>
[3.2]	C. D. Challis, Ph.D. thesis, University of London (1986).<p>
[3.3]	E. S. Figura, Ph.D. thesis, University of London (1989).<p>
[3.4]	S. L. Niffikeer, Ph.D. thesis, University of London (1991).<p>
[3.5]	D. L. Book, NRL Formulary, NRL Publication 0084-4040 (1986).<p>
[3.6]	M. Green, Proc. Phys. Soc., <b>83</b>, 435 (1964).<p>
[3.7]	M. Green, and Cosslett, Brit. J. Appl. Phys. (J. Phys. D.), <b>1</b>, 455
(1968). <p>
[3.8]	D. L. Book, NRL Formulary, NRL Publication 0084-4040 (1986).<p>
[3.9]	N. A. Dyson, "X-rays in Atomic and Nuclear Physics", Longman (1973).<p>
<p>
<b><u>July 19 (Wwdnesday)</u></b><p>
<b><u></u></b><p>
<b><u></u></b>
</body></html>
--------------7F093B5637--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:02:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA10377; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:46:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:46:04 -0800
Message-ID: <33210BF1.43ED rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:49:21 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Farhat spark exp.: chapter 2
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1A8A6D634058"
Resent-Message-ID: <"n2ZaA2.0.3Y2.QqF8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4809
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------1A8A6D634058
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter2/chapter2.html

--------------1A8A6D634058
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="chapter2.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chapter2.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/chapter2/chapter2.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter2/chapter2.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>chapter 2</title></head><body><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Chapter 2</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Apparatus and Diagnostics</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	This chapter gives a description of the pulsed power generator used to
drive the fibre z-pinch experiment. The generator consists of a Marx bank, a
pulse forming line, a switch and a transfer line. The vacuum chamber is an
extension of the transfer line. The electrical characteristics of the current
generator and the pinch was monitored using voltage probes and a Rogowski coil.
<p>
<p>
	This chapter also describes the various diagnostics used. These include, an
optical streak camera, a laser schlieren and interferometric systems, time
integrated six pinhole camera, an x-ray streak camera, two filtered x-ray PIN
diodes, photomultiplier/scintillator hard x-ray detector and thermoluminescent
x-ray dosimeters. Most of the diagnostics were used simultaneously. The x-ray
emission from the anode was monitored to determine the characteristics of the
electron beams. In the end, the outline of the timing sequence is given. <p>
<p>
<b>2.1  Apparatus</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The current generator used in the experiments described here was
capable of delivering 100 kA current in 55 ns (10% - 90%) in a short circuit.
This corresponded to  the peak rate of current rise 1.8 x 10<sup>12</sup>
As<sup>-1</sup>. The details of current generator and the electrical probes
used to monitor its performance are as follows:<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>2.1.1  The current generator</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The current generator is shown schematically in figure 2.1. The Marx
bank consists of eight 0.5 uF, 100 kV BICC cylindrical capacitors. The
capacitors are charged to 50 kV in parallel and discharged in series to give
400 kV across the capacitance of 62.5 nF. The Marx bank then, charges a pulse
forming line of 24 nF, 3 [[Omega]], and 75 ns. A matched transfer line of
double transit time of 50 ns separated by a self breaking switch that is
pressurised to breakdown at pre-determined voltage. <p>
<p>
	The pulse forming line is made of inner hollow cylindrical conductor of 250 mm
diameter situated within an outer square section of 380 mm. Ionised water is
used as a dielectric medium between the two conductors. The water is
continuously circulated through a resin ion de-ioniser to maintain the
resistivity above ~1 M ohm-cm. The charging time for the line is 1 us. The
details of the generator can be found elsewhere [2.1].<p>
<p>
	The switch operates in SF6 gas. The switch essentially isolates the pinch
inductance from the marx inductance allowing the pulse forming line to be
charged and thereby enhances the current rise time. The transfer section is an
important part of the current generator and is used to attain faster current
rise times. Figure 2.2 shows current profiles for the parameters of the current
generator for different values of pinch inductance to the switch inductance
ratio [2.2]. These profiles are calculated using transmission line code
Bertha.<u></u><p>
<u></u><p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter21.gif"><p>
<p>
	Figure 2.2. Effect of switch inductance on the current rise time [n=2Ll/Ls] -
a 	measure of switch inductance.<p>
<p>
	Two self breaking switches were used in the experiments. First switch was used
in the initial experiments, second switch was used when first switch was
malfunctioned.<p>
<p>
<b>Switch A: </b>The details of the switch A are shown in figure 2.3(a). The
insulating<b> </b>body of this switch was machined from a solid block of
perspex. It was then annealed for 24 hours at a temperature of 80<sup>o</sup>C
to eliminate stresses. The electrode were of brass and were spring loaded to
absorb shock. The electrode separation distance was 20 mm. The pressure was set
at 1.75 bar, so that the self breakdown voltage was equal to 360 kV i.e., 80%
of the maximum charging voltage. The switch  closes at 720 ns after the Marx
has erected. The field shaping plates at the either end of the switch have a
significant capacitance and provide a small pre-pulse before the switch
closure. <p>
<p>
<b>Switch B: </b> The details of switch B are shown in figure 2.3(b). This is a
commercial switch manufactured by Physics International and  is currently also
being used in the MAGPIE generator [2.3]. The switch is a field distortion
triggered electrode with the central trigger electrode removed. The insulating
body of the switch is made from a perspex tube and the brass electrodes are
normally spaced 30 mm apart. These electrodes were lengthened slightly to
reduce the gap  to 15 mm for the present experiments. Physically the switch B
is longer than the switch A.<p>


<pre>
                                    Switch A                Switch B      
      Estimated                    ~ 50 nH                  ~ 100 nH      
inductance                                                                
      Capacitance                  ~ 0.15 nF                ~ 50 pF       

</pre>

<p>
<b>2.1.2  The Pinch Chamber</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The pinch chamber, shown in figure 2.4, was machined from a solid block
of dural. There were altogether twelve diagnostic ports, four were fitted with
NW40 and the other eight with NW25 vacuum fittings. The chamber was bolted to
the front of the current generator and formed an integral part of it. <p>
<p>
	The steel cathode was connected to the live inner conductor of the transfer
line through the perspex insulator. The brass anode with its built in Rogowski
coil was screwed into the front chamber. The fibre was mounted in a 1.5 mm
capillary which was fed horizontally through a hole in the anode into the
chamber. Care was taken to ensure that the fibre touched the cathode. The
chamber was pumped down  to a vacuum of 10<sup>-5 </sup>torr using turbo pump
backed by a rotary pump.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>2.1.3  Voltage Probes</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Two identical capacitive voltage probes, one in the pulse forming line
and the other in the transfer line, were installed in the current generator to
monitor the voltage <p>
appearing at the input and the out put of the self breaking switch
respectively. The probes contain a brass disc. which couples to the inner
conductor of the line and lies flush with the inner surface of the outer
conductor, the dural shell couples to the outer conductor via water dielectric
. <p>
<p>
	A schematic of the probe and its equivalent circuit is shown in figure 2.5(a).
The voltage division is between C1 formed by the inner cylinder and other
capacitance C2 to the earthed outer conductor of the generator. A signal is
extracted through a coaxial cable connected to a resistor R3. In the circuit
diagram Vi and Vo are input and output voltages respectively. R1 and R2 are the
resistances due to the water dielectric.<p>
<p>
The  voltage equation for the circuit may be written as,<p>
<p>
	 	
<IMG SRC="chapter22.gif">
			(2.1.1)<p>
<p>
where	
<IMG SRC="chapter23.gif">
is a dimensionless quantity<p>
<p>
	[[tau]]0 = ZC1<p>
<p>
		 [[tau]]1 = R1C1  <p>
<p>
		 [[tau]]2 = (R3+Z)(1/R1+1/R2).<p>
	 			<p>
We can take,<p>
	[[rho]][[tau]]1=[[tau]]2, 	<p>
since	RC=[[epsilon]][[eta]]<b></b><p>
<b></b>where [[eta]] and [[epsilon]] are the dielectric constant and the
resistivity of the medium respectively. This shows that the product RC depends
only on the properties of the dielectric medium and is independent of the
shapes of the electrodes.<p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
The out put signal is,<p>
<p>
		
<IMG SRC="chapter24.gif">
					(2.1.2)<p>
<p>
or<b></b><p>
<b></b>		
<IMG SRC="chapter25.gif">
			(2.1.3)<p>
<p>
thus, the output signal is directly related with the input signal. To monitor
the voltage at C2 , one obviously has to connect a co-axial cable between C2
and the oscilloscope. To avoid reflections, this cable has to be terminated by
a 50 ohm resistor. The time constant RC2, must be much longer than the time
duration of the voltage pulse and this was achieved by a resistor R3. This
further reduces the output voltage by (Z/[R3+Z]) but the output voltage is
still proportional to the input voltage. The present probe was designed to
satisfy values of C1 and C2. The details of these probes can be found elsewhere
[2.4]. These voltage probes were calibrated by Figura [2.1] and give
calibration factor of 20mV/kV.<p>
<p>

<p>
<b>2.2  Diagnostics</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>Diagnostics can be divided into three categories,<p>
<p>
i)	The optical emission from the plasma was monitored by the optical streak
camera in axial and radial mode.<p>
ii)	The optical probing of the plasma was performed by the schlieren and
interferometric techniques.<p>
iii)	The x-ray emission was monitored by the x-ray time integrated pinhole
camera, an x-ray streak camera, x-ray PIN diodes, photomultiplier/scintillator
combination, and thermoluminescent dosimeters.<p>
<p>
Simultaneous use of these diagnostics helped to correlate the optical emission
and x-ray emission from the plasma and the anode.<p>
 <p>
<b>2.2.1  Optical Streak Photography</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>Optical streak photography was performed in both axial and radial modes.
The slit was placed perpendicular to the pinch axis for the radial streak
photography. The radial streak photography gives information about the
expansion of the pinch. For axial streak photography, the slit was parallel to
the pinch axis. The axial streak photography gives information of the initial
breakdown and the time evolution of the pinch along its axis. <p>
<p>
	 A Kentech optical streak camera was employed for both radial and optical
streak photography. This camera has an internal microchannel plate intensifier
of gain up to x10<sup>3</sup>, the output window is 40 mm diameter; the
internal magnification is 1.2; the resolution is 7 line pairs /mm. The slit was
placed directly on the face of the photocathode input window and pinch was
focused onto the slit. The time resolution of the camera was determined by the
sweep speed and the width of the entrance slit. The images were recorded on
high speed Ilford HP5 film. <p>
<p>
	For the radial streak, a 100 um wide slit  was used. The pinch column near the
cathode was focused on the slit transversly. The sweep rate of 2.5 ns/mm was
used. The spatial and the temporal resolution of the streak camera were 70 um
and &lt; 1 ns respectively.<p>
<p>
	For the axial streak photography, the image of the pinch column was rotated
using pair of mirrors. A  slit of 1 mm width was used. Magnification of 0.5 was
used to view the pinch column and the electrodes simultaneously. The whole
plasma column was 500 um in diameter and was swept parallel to the slit.
Several sweep speeds ranging from 0.75 ns/mm, 2.5 mm/ns and 7.5 ns/mm were used
that give time resolution of 0.4 ns, 1.25 ns and 4 ns respectively. <p>
<p>
	The streak camera and light emitting diode for the timing fiducial, were
triggered from the delay box that was triggered by the square pulse trigger
box. The light from light emitting diode was fed into the slit of the streak
camera for the timing fiducial and signal was also taken to the oscilloscope to
time the optical emission with the current signal. The triggering and timing of
the streak camera is shown in figure 2.7.<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>2.2.2  Optical Probing</b><p>
<p>
	The plasma was imaged by a single shot Quantel ruby laser pulse of energy 50
mJ and duration of 7 ns. The wavelength of the ruby laser is 694.3 nm and
corresponds to a critical density of 2.31 x 10<sup>27</sup> m<sup>-3</sup> and
sets the limit of the plasma that may be usefully probed using the ruby laser.
The pulse was reduced to 2 ns using a pockel cell switch on some shots. The
schlieren photography was performed to observe localised density variation and
interferometry was performed to record electron density of the pinch in the
radial and axial direction. In both techniques change in refractive index of
the plasma gives information of electron density,<p>
<p>
		
<IMG SRC="chapter214.gif">
				(2.2.1)<p>
<p>
where ne and nc are the electron and the critical density.<p>
<p>
	The laser was triggered from the delay unit and light from the oscillator was
fed into the photodiode and the electrical signal was fed to an oscilloscope to
correlate it with the current waveform.<p>
	<p>
a)   <u>Schlieren Photography</u><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The schlieren technique is sensitive to the first derivative of the
refractive index of the plasma. The light ray during its passage through the
plasma bends towards the region of greater refractive index. It encounters
transversely to a density gradient. The optical layout of the system is shown
in figure 2.8. For this technique, the parallel laser light was focused on a
stop in the absence of the plasma and image was recorded in the image plane of
the pinch with a magnification of 1. In the presence of the plasma, the light
deviates by an amount given by the following equation [2.6],<p>
<p>
		
<IMG SRC="chapter215.gif">,
				(2.2.2)<p>
<p>
where [[theta]] is the angle of beam deviation after passing through the
plasma, --^u  is the gradient of refractive index transverse to the propagation
of laser beam. and dl is the path length along the line of sight. <p>
<p>
	For the experiments described here, a 500 um diameter stop and one meter focal
length lens,10 cm in diameter  were used. The lens was placed at about 2 meters
away from the pinch. The sensitivity of the system was of the order of
10<sup>-4</sup> rad. The image was recorded on the charge coupled device.<p>
<p>
b)  <u>Interferometry</u><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Interferometry was used to measure the density of the plasma. This can
be achieved by comparing a phase front of the beam passing through the plasma
with a reference beam [2.7]. The phase shift as a change in the refractive
index of the plasma can be written as, <p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter216.gif">
				(2.2.3)<p>
	   	   = 
<IMG SRC="chapter217.gif">
				(2.2.4)<p>
<p>
where A is a constant which depends on the critical density, l is measured
along the optical path of the probing beam. The interferogram records the phase
changes along the line of sight. Hence, it is necessary to express the fringe
shift as a function of r. If phase shift is 2[[pi]], then there will be one
fringe shift. Thus, it is possible to obtain information about the electron
number density by observing the fringe shift. Information about the electron
density was obtained by performing the Abel inversion [2.8] of the
interferograms. The cylindrical symmetry was assumed. <p>
<p>
	Figure 2.9 shows the arrangement of the self referencing interferometer used
in the experiments. This interferometer was designed and developed by Edwards
[2.9]. The transmitted laser beam  through the plasma was first collimated and
was <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
passed through lenses and alignment apertures. The lens f2 was moveable so that
one can adjust shape of fringes. The laser beam was then splitted into two
parts by a beam splitter. Both parts followed exactly the same path length but
in opposite directions, in such a way that while one part was magnified by the
telescope, the other part was de-magnified. Both images were then combined at
the beam splitter. The focal lengths of the lenses of the telescope were chosen
so that the size difference between the expanded and contracted beam was 10.
The expanded beam was used as a reference beam because the phase front was
smooth due to the expansion. The contracted beam that contained the phase shift
information, was used as the main beam. This device is simple to use and there
is no need for beam splitting before the plasma. The plasma image can be
obtained on a film or Charge Coupled Device (CCD) camera. In the experiments
described here image was focused on the CCD camera with the help of a lens f5.
The CCD camera was timed with the laser pulse for a single shot operation. <p>
 <p>
<b>2.2.3  X-ray Emission</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	In this section, a description of the diagnostics used to record x-ray
emission from the plasma and the anode is given. This include the time
integrated pinhole camera, x-ray streak camera, PIN diodes,
scintillator/photomultiplier setup and thermoluminesecnt badges. These
diagnostics were also used simultaneously.<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>a)   <u>Time integrated x-ray pinhole photography</u><p>
<u></u><b></b><p>
<b></b>	The pinhole camera was used to obtain x-ray images of the plasma. Using
a proper choice of pinholes and filters, the camera provides both spatial and
the spectral resolution of the  x-ray emitting regions. The time integrated
information of the image was attained on Kodak direct exposure film (DEF). <p>
<p>
	The spatial resolution of the camera is d=b (1+1/m), where b is the diameter
of the pinhole and m is the magnification given by m=V/U, U is the distance
between the pinhole and the object, V is the distance between the pinhole and
the image. In the present work, a six channel time integrated pinhole camera
was used. The camera was made of brass and the vent apertures in the camera
ensured vacuum continuity on the side of the film when coupled to the vacuum
chamber.  Magnifications of 2 and 0.4 were used but mostly m=0.4 was used. The
spatial resolution of the x-ray source was obtained using a range of pinhole
diameters from 10 um to 1mm. Thus the resolution varied from 35 um to 3.5 mm. A
wide range of filters were used to detect the spectrum within the energy range
100 eV-25 keV. The details of the x-ray filters used are given in chapter 3. <p>
<p>
	The camera was used to record, the size of the x-ray bright spots, the x-ray
emission at the anode and the temperature of the bright spots.<p>
<p>
	The x-ray yield was calculated from,<p>
<p>
		X-ray yield
<IMG SRC="chapter218.gif">
      Joule		(2.2.5)<p>
<p>
where D is the density of the film measured at x,y. S is the sensitivity of the
film in photons/cm<sup>2</sup>, d(xy) is the area on the film, Eave is the
average energy transmitted, T is the transmission of the filter at Eave and
[[Omega]] is the solid angle subtended by the pinhole.<p>
  <p>
	The x-ray images were recorded on DEF (Direct Exposure Film) film. Henke et
al. [2.10] have calculated the sensitivity of the film using a model in which
film is taken to be a plastic substrate coated with an emulsion silver bromide
grains are embedded in a gelatine and covered by protective layer called the
supercoat. The physical parameters have been measured by Rockett et al. [2.11].
The x-ray absorption coefficients of these materials have been used to
calculate the sensitivity of the film. In the present experiments, the x-rays
were produced in the energy range of 100 eV to 25 keV. For this energy range
the theoretical sensitivity based on Henke's <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
model was calculated by Niffikeer [1.17]. There also exists experimental
calibration between 1 keV to 10 keV [2.12]. Since DEF has emulsion coats on
both sides, the film density of both emulsions were computed and added to give
the net density. Figure 2.10 shows a plot of DEF sensitivity for various
energies and densities.<p>
<p>
b)<b>   </b><u>X-ray streak photography</u><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The time resolved information for the x-rays emitted from the plasma
and the anode is obtained from the Kentech x-ray streak camera. The principle
of the x-ray streak camera is that the incident x-rays cause the cesium iodide
photocathode to emit electrons. These are then accelerated by a mesh which is
kept at a voltage of -11 kV and the image is obtained on 40 mm diameter
phosphor screen of the streak camera. The camera is usually used with an image
intensifier which reduces the 40 mm diameter phosphor screen to 30 mm. The
internal magnification of the camera is 1.4.<p>
<p>
	The photocathode is made of cesium iodide deposited on a mesh (100 um x 100
um) of 200 nm of formvar and 5 nm aluminium. The thickness of the CsI
deposition is important in determining the sensitivity. For this reason,
various thicknesses of CsI were used to get the best image. Day et al. [2.13]
and Henke et al. [2.14] have worked out the sensitivity of CsI deposition
layers and the photocathodes of several materials. The sensitivity of CsI
photocathodes deteriorate due to contamination in air, consequently the
photocathode was kept under vacuum during the experiments. <p>
<p>
	For the experiments, the camera was positioned as close to the source as
possible in order to increase the brightness. The camera was connected to the
chamber with an insulting tube as shown in figure 2.11. The pinhole was
situated at the end of an insulating tube. The filter was attached to the
pinhole and it was on the camera side. This was necessary to counter the blast
wave and it acted as a vacuum seal between the pinch chamber and the camera
side. The magnification of 0.5 allowed to view the <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
pinch and the anode simultaneously. The camera was streaked transversely to the
pinch. The camera was pumped to 10<sup>-5</sup> torr using turbo/rotary pump
combination. <p>
<p>
	A 300 um diameter aperture and various filters i.e., 10 um Be, 1.5 um
aluminium and 0.8 um aluminium were used to record the x-rays in different
spectral regions. A streak rate of 3.3 ns/mm was used. This gives time
resolution of about 1 ns. The images were recorded on Ilford HP5 film.<p>
<p>
	The x-ray signal from the collimated PIN diode was used as a timing marker for
the x-ray streak camera. The camera was timed to within an accuracy of 2-3 ns
with the current signal. <p>
<p>
c)<b>   </b><u>PIN Diodes</u><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Further time resolved information about the x-rays was obtained from
the filtered PIN diodes. Two PIN diodes were used to determine<p>
<p>
i)	plasma x-ray energies<p>
ii)	duration of the x-ray emission<p>
iii)	Electron beam current, and <p>
iv)	the electron beam behaviour<p>
<p>
	The x-rays were passed through a collimator to avoid hard x-rays  coming from
the anode. The collimators consisted of nylon cylinders having 5 mm aperture
which absorb hard x-rays and 5 mm thick brass disc with a 5 mm through hole in
the centre which absorbs any fluorescence produced by the nylon. The PIN diodes
were mounted in a 30 cm copper tube located approximately 45 cm away from the
pinch. The filters were placed on the back end of the brass disk. The schematic
of PIN diode arrangment is shown in figure 2.12(a). Uncollimated PIN diodes
were used to view the hard x-rays from the anode due to the interaction of an
electron beam. <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
	The filters were chosen such that the difference of filter transmission makes
a energy window . This is taken as the energy recorded between two PIN diodes.
The x-ray yield is then obtained by calculating the charge collected by each
PIN diode and subtracting it . Then filter transmission, sensitivity of PIN
diodes and solid angle is taken into account to calculate the x-ray yield given
by the following formula,<p>
<p>
    		X-ray yield = 
<IMG SRC="chapter219.gif">
Joule	(2.2.6)	<p>
<p>
where Q1, Q2 are the signals from PIN diodes 1 &amp; 2, T and S are the
transmission of the filter at Eave and sensitivity of the PIN diode. D and R
are  diameter of the exposed area and distance of the source from the pinhole.
<p>
<p>
	The PIN diodes consisted of p-type intrinsic layer covered by n-type dead
layer. The x-rays has to penetrate the intrinsic layer in order to make
electron hole pair in the semiconductor. The Quantrad PIN diodes of an
intrinsic layer of thickness of 250 um and dead layer of 0.25 um were used. The
sensitivity curve of PIN diodes is obtained from a code written by R. Spielman
[2.15] and is shown in figure 2.12(b). The PIN diodes are also sensitive to
gamma rays electrons, protons, alpha particles, electrons and neutrons
[2.16].<p>
<p>
d)<b>   </b><u>Scintillator/photomultiplier Setup</u>	<p>
<p>
	A Scintillator/photomultiplier setup was used to record the time history of
the hard x-ray signal above 50 keV. <p>
<p>
	In the case of pulsed power generator, it is always best to keep the
photomultipliers away from it to avoid any effect due to the electromagnetic
noise and the gamma rays. For this purpose, a photomultiplier was placed in the
screened room. Fluorescent fibres were wound round a 2.5 cm diameter and 10 cm
long NE102A scintillator (figure 2.13) which was kept out side the chamber in a
10 cm lead box having aperture of 1 cm. The fluorescent fibres which convert a
violet light into green light were coupled with an ordinary optical fibre and
fed into a photomultiplier. The signal from the photomultiplier was then taken
to the oscilloscope to correlate it with the current waveform. The details of
the technique can be found elsewhere [2.17]. <p>
<p>
 	A 5.5 mm stainless steel and 5.5 mm thick aluminium vacuum stopper at the
chamber NW 40 fitting was used as a filter to record x-ray signals above 50
keV. The response time of the detection system was estimated to be 5-7 ns due
to scintillator and photomultiplier response. <p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter220.gif"><p>
<p>
	Figure 2.13. Schematic of the scintillator/photomultiplier setup.<p>
<p>
e)<b>   </b><u>Thermoluminescent Badges</u><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The thermoluminescent badges (TLD) are sensitive to x-rays above 50 keV
[2.18]. They consists of thermoluminescent phosphor, the free electrons present
within the crystalline structure gets trapped in the lattice imperfections when
exposed to the radiation. They can exist in this metastable state for a long
time. Warming of the crystal, results in the decay of the metastable states
with the emission of light which is a direct measure of the radiation dose
received. The thermoluminescent detectors were calibrated by the National
Radiological Protection Board, and hence to be send away for the analysis.<p>
<b></b><p>
<b>2.3   Timing Sequence</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Figure 2.14 shows timing sequence of several diagnostics. The Marx bank
and laser were triggered from a master trigger. Then, a voltage signal derived
from the pulse forming line was fed to a  square pulse generator (referred as
pulser) that triggered the delay unit. The delay unit triggered all the various
diagnostics. The timing fiducial for the streak camera was provided by the fast
pulse generator which gave a light signal of 7 ns duration with a risetime of 1
ns. All cables were timed and calibrated. The monitor signals from the optical
and the x-ray streak cameras were fed to the oscilloscope for comparison with
the discharge current signal. For the timing of the schlieren images and the
interferogrames, the light from a pockel cell was fed into an optical fibre and
the derived electrical output was then fed to an oscilloscope. The timing was
accurate to within 2 ns.<p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b> <p>
<b>	</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
</body></html>
--------------1A8A6D634058--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:06:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA07606; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:32:18 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:32:18 -0800
Message-ID: <33210851.9F2 rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:35:49 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, ine@padrak.com, wireless@rmii.com,
        conte teseo.it, design73@aol.com, mica@world.std.com,
        rmcarrell aol.com, claytor_t_n@lanl.gov, david@ibg.uu.se,
        76570.2270 compuserve.com, jlogajan@skypoint.com,
        kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp
Subject: Farhat Beg dense Z-pinch spark exps: Chapter 7
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------42D612514479"
Resent-Message-ID: <"SmLV03.0.ms1.XdF8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4805
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------42D612514479
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter7/chapter7.html

--------------42D612514479
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="chapter7.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chapter7.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/chapter7/chapter7.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter7/chapter7.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>Chapter 7</title></head><body><p>
<p>
<p>
<b>Chapter 5</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Summary and Conclusions</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	In this chapter the results and their interpretations will be
summarised first. These results are compared with the results reported by other
researchers. Finally, conclusions are drawn from the observed data and future
work is proposed.<p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.1	Summary of the main observations</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.1.1	Optical Emission</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>a)	<u>7 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>*	Optical emission is observed to start at t=0. The emission starts from
the 	cathode propagating down the fibre appearing at the anode at about 4 ns.
<p>
	This corresponds to a velocity of 5 x 10<sup>6</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup> along the
fibre.<p>
<p>
*	The pinch initially expands with a velocity of 3.6 x 10<sup>4</sup>
ms<sup>-1</sup> for switch A 	which has the larger pre-pulse and with a
velocity of 1.2 x 10<sup>4</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup> for 	switch B. <p>
<p>
*	Bright spots emission appears in two groups. First group is less intense and
begins at about 7 ns. Each bright spots has a typical duration of 1 ns and
shows no or little axial motion. Second group bright spots are brighter and
appear at about 18 ns, most of these bright spots bifurcate and move axially
with a velocity of 3 x 10<sup>5</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup>. <p>
<p>
*	For switch A, there is very little time between the two groups. For switch B,
two groups are separated by a time of approximately 10 ns. During this very
little emission from the pinch is observed.  <p>
<p>
*	After 35 ns for switch A and 65 ns for switch B, there is very little
emission 	from the pinch. The emission from the electrodes becomes intense with
time.<p>
<p>
*	With a reduced fibre length, the pinch expands to a larger diameter. <p>
<p>
b)	<u>33 um carbon fibre</u> <u></u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>*	Optical emission starts at t=0 but due to the curved nature of the
fibre, it is 	difficult to ascertain whether the optical emission begins from
the cathode or 	not.<p>
<p>
*	The pinch initially expands with a velocity of 1 x 10<sup>4</sup>
ms<sup>-1</sup>. <p>
<p>
*	Like 7 um carbon fibres, the bright spots appears in two successive stages
but 	fewer bright spots are observed and second stage appears later at about 28
ns. 	The optical emission lasts for much longer , more than 200 ns. <p>
<p>
*	The bright spots bifurcate and sometimes trifurcate, and move axially with a
velocity of 1 x 10<sup>5</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup>.<p>
<p>
c)	<u>25 um aluminium fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
*	Optical emission begins at t=0 from the whole length of the fibre.<p>
<p>
*	Pinch expands radially outwards with a velocity of 1.5 x 10<sup>4</sup>
ms<sup>-1</sup>.<p>
<p>
*	The bright spots are less obvious and emission is almost uniform from the
whole length of the fibre.<p>
<p>
*	The optical emission lasts for more than 200 ns.<p>
<p>
<b>5.1.2	Optical Probing</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><u>a)</u>	<u>7 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<p>
*	m=0 perturbations are seen at 4 ns (earliest time of observations).<p>
<p>
*	The perturbations grow rapidly and the wavelength increases as the pinch
expands. At 12 ns, the wavelengths of the perturbations are of the order of the
plasma column radius such that ka ~ 3.<p>
<p>
*	Well defined islands of density typically 3 mm in diameter appear after 80
ns, 	the electron density inside some of the islands exceeds 10<sup>25</sup>
m<sup>-3</sup>. Density in 	regions between the islands is very small.<p>
<p>
*	Note that there is no optical and x-ray emission from the density islands at
this 	time.<p>
<p>
*	At about 100 ns, the density islands are larger and more diffuse and are not
observed after 130 ns.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<u>b)</u>	<u>33 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<p>
*	The earliest schlieren photograph at 34 ns shows an expanded fibre with no
obvious perturbations. At 46 ns, perturbations are well developed (amplitude 	~
pinch radius).<p>
<p>
*	Like 7 um carbon fibre, the perturbations grow and wavelength increases as
the pinch expands with time.<p>
<p>
*	A core is visible even after 100 ns as are the perturbations. The density
islands 	are not seen even as late as 189 ns.<p>
<p>
<u>c)</u>	<u>25 um aluminium fibre   </u><p>
<p>
*	At the earliest time of observation (59 ns) perturbations with
[[Delta]]r/r=1/4 are 	evident . The density perturbations are distributed along
the fibre axis. <p>
<p>
*	Like 33 um carbon fibres, a core is always evident and density islands are
not 	seen.<p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.1.3	X-ray Observations</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>a)	<u>7 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<p>
*	Hard x-ray emission from the anode at t=0 is consistent with a 4 kA electron
beam &gt; 50 keV.<p>
<p>
*	X-ray bright spots are also in two stages with first stage less intense,
emitting 	lower energy x-rays and of shorter duration (&lt;= 1 ns). In second
stage, some 	bright spots show bifurcation. The velocity is the same as for the
optical 	bright spots. All the bright spots emit for shorter period in the
x-ray compared 	with optical wavelengths.<p>
<p>
*	Emission from the anode is observed 5 ns before the second stage bright
spots. The emission is pulsed with periods 15 - 20 ns and consistent with a 16
keV, 20 kA electron beam. <p>
<p>
*	For shorter pinch length, x-ray emission from the plasma and the anode is
more intense by an order of magnitude.	<p>
<p>
*	The temperature of the bright spots is between 75-135 eV. Assuming the fully
ionised carbon, Te=Ti and taking line density of 4.6 x 10<sup>18</sup>
m<sup>-1</sup>, the Bennett 	temperature is 12.5 eV for 36 kA. <p>
<p>
* 	Each density island can be identified with a bright spot. But, there are
bright 	spots which are at other axial positions. <p>
<p>
<u>b)</u>	<u>33 um carbon fibre</u><p>
<u></u><p>
<u></u>*	Like 7 um carbon fibre but <p>
	[[ring]]	bright spots are fewer. X-ray emission is softer and longer lived <p>
	[[ring]]	the anode emission is consistent with an electron beam of 7 keV<p>
	[[ring]]	temperature of the second set of bright spots ranges between 80 - 100
	eV compared to Bennett temperature of about 1.5 eV for fully ionised 		plasma
at 56 kA current.<p>
<p>
<u>c)</u>	<u>25 um aluminium fibre</u>		<p>
<p>
*	X-ray bright spots appear at about 45 ns. These are of longer duration and
emit intense x-rays . The duration of emission decreases as the hardness of x-
ray increases.<p>
<p>
*	The x-ray emission from the anode  is consistent with a 7 keV electron
beam.<p>
<p>
*	Whenever there is a bright spot, there is a localised concentration of
density 	but every density concentration is not associated with the x-ray
bright spot. 	Life time of the density concentration is longer than the bright
spot duration.<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.2	Summary of Interpretations</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>*	Two observations, i.e., i) the breakdown begins from the cathode and
proceeds towards the anode and ii) a 4 kA electron beam &gt; 50 keV at the
start 	of current for carbon fibres clearly indicate that the break down is due
to field 	emission. The electrons from the cathode interact with the surface of
the fibre 	producing secondary electrons. Thus the breakdown initiates.<p>
<p>
*	For aluminium fibres the optical emission is more or less uniform and on
average no hard x-ray signal is observed suggesting that the joule heating is
main mechanism for heating the fibre.<p>
<p>
*	The pinch will always expand if vd &gt;&gt; Cs i.e, line density is below 1.6
x 	10<sup>18</sup> (1+Z)/Z<sup>3</sup> m<sup>-1</sup>.<p>
<p>
*	m=0 instability establishes early in the discharge.<p>
<p>
*	The <b>J</b>r x<b>B[[theta]]</b> force in the constricted regions is
responsible for bifurcation and 	the axial motion of bright spots. <p>
<p>
*	The Lundquist number is S &lt; 100, therefore the plasma should be
resistively 	stable. But pinch is observed to be unstable early in the
discharge. <p>
<p>
*	The difference in pinch behaviour for two switches is attributed to a larger
pre-pulse for switch A compared to switch B.<p>
<p>
	<p>
<p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.3	Comparison with other Fibre Pinch Experiments</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Carbon fibre experiments are similar to deuterium fibre experiments.
The atomic line density and resistance of 7 um carbon fibre is approximately
the same as for 100 um deuterium fibre. The main difference is the Z=6 for
carbon and Z=1 for deuterium; thus the carbon fibre requires more energy for
ionisation compared with that for deuterium fibre.<p>
<p>
	Fibre pinch experiments may be divided into two categories i) exploding metal
wire experiments performed in the late 70's and early 80's and ii) insulating
fibre pinch experiments performed mostly in the 90's.<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>5.3.1   Carbon fibre</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	Ishii et al. [5.1] used carbon fibres coated with copper and nickel. The
maximum current in these experiments was about 150 kA. No difference was
observed between the coated and the uncoated fibres though the diagnostics used
in these experiments were limited.  <p>
<p>
	Kies et al. [5.2] reported experiments using carbon fibres. For the pre-pulse
free carbon fibre experiments, the maximum discharge current attained was 1 MA
in 90 ns and the following observations were obtained:<p>
<p>
i)	The discharges with 7 um carbon fibres showed disruption when the current
exceeded 300 kA and for a single discharge disruptions were not observed 	when
current was reduced below 300 kA. Another discharge with a larger 	radius
coated carbon fibre did not show any disruption until 800 kA current. 	They
claim that the onset of a disruption is determined more by the radius than 	by
the pinch current. In MAGPIE [5.3], disruptions are observed at  500 kA for 	<p>
	7 um carbon fibres but for 33 um carbon fibres disruptions occur at about 1 MA
current. In the present experiment, disruptions are not observed because of the
low generator voltages.<p>
<p>
ii)	The radial expansion of the shorter fibres is faster than that for the
longer fibres. 	This was not observed in  the present experiment. However,
dramatic increase 	in hard x-ray emission was observed for shorter fibres. It
was also observed 	that the pinch expands to a larger diameter for shorter
fibres. <p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>iv)	They observed very similar x-ray bright spots. In fact, the
intensity of the bright 	spots is almost the same as that seen in the present
experiment. Note that for 	some of the discharges same filter, same pinhole
diameter and same streak 	camera was used. They observed only the second group
of higher intensity 	bright spots.<p>
<p>
	In MAGPIE (1.4 MA, 150 ns) [5.4] with 33 um carbon fibres, bifurcation of
bright spots was observed around the time when the current was 100 kA, compared
with 36 kA in the present experiment. However, the axial velocities observed
were identical.<p>
<p>
<b>5.3.2   Deuterium fibre</b><p>
<b></b>	<p>
 	Three sets of experiments have been reported by Hammel and Scudder [5.5] and
Sethian et al. [5.6]. Hammel and Scudder used fibres with diameters ranging
from 20-40 um driven with a maximum current of 250 kA in 150 ns. Sethian et al.
used fibres ranging in diameter from 80 to 125 um with a peak current of 640 kA
for the first sets of experiments. For the second set of experiments [5.7] a
generator of 920 kA rising in 840 ns was used. Essentially results obtained
were similar, both observed bright spots though a limited set of diagnostics
was used . Observations made were very similar to the carbon fibre observations
in the present experiment. <p>
<p>
	However based on optical radial streaks (axial streaks were not taken),
Sethian et al. [5.5] claimed to observe a stable pinch for the entire current
rise time.  The neutron yield of 4 x 10<sup>9</sup> was observed.<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>5.3.3   CD2 fibre</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	The first CD2 fibre experiment was reported in 1977 [5.8]. The Gamble
generator gave the maximum current of 1 MA in 1.4 us. CD2 fibres of diameters
8-150 um were used. Disruptions were observed for thinner fibres. Associated
with these disruptions were pulses of neutrons produced by beam target
interaction. The maximum neutron yield observed was 10<sup>10</sup>. No studies
on the dynamics of the pinch were made.  <p>
<p>
	Kies et al. [5.2] used KALIF generator (800 kA, 2 [[Omega]]) to study i) the
driver pinch coupling (" coupling refers to the current transfer from the
driver to the pinch, to the current transport by the pinch plasma and to the
load impedance evolution during the discharge but neither to driver load
impedance matching nor to the radial current density profile"), ii) the initial
breakdown and iii) the pinch formation. Fibres ranging in diameter from 15-150
um and in length from 30 and 50 mm were used. Several diagnostics were used
viz. time integrated x-ray pinhole camera, optical streak camera, optical
framing camera, neutron detection system etc. It was observed that the
pre-pulse improved the driver load coupling (" the term good coupling is
characterised by i) no, or only a small, breakdown delay (&lt; 4 ns), ii) no,
or only initial small, current leak (It ~ Ip) and iii) no, or only small,
initial hard x-ray pulse"). A halo was seen to compress in radial streak
photographs with a velocity of 5 x 10<sup>5</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup>. The
estimated electron temperature was 2 keV from time integrated pinhole images.
Bright spots (referred as micropinches) were more distinct when input power was
reduced. A maximum neutron yield of order of 10<sup>10</sup> was observed. Well
coupled discharges showed isotropic neutron yield and even enhanced side on
emission. A second set of experiments were performed without a pre-pulse and
with a reduced voltage rise time. Discharges with reduced power input showed
better coupling. Only one out of 25 discharges showed complete disruptions, the
fibre diameter for this discharge was 15 um. The radial streak observations
showed that the bright centre plasma is better confined and expanding halo is
fainter as compared to pre-pulse discharges. The results presented in the paper
are very similar to the results obtained in this thesis.<p>
<p>
		Scudder et al. [5.9] studied instability behaviour of 15-100 um diameter
fibres, 5 cm in length. The maximum current of about 700 kA reached its peak
value in about 100 ns. The schlieren images showed that instabilities grow
early in time. The discharges with a  pre-pulse were more stable. The
suppression of the m=0 instability did not prevent the fibre from expanding at
a rapid rate. In the present experiments, the instability was also observed at
early time but for higher Z fibre, it appeared later in time.<p>
<p>
		<p>
<b>5.3.4   Metallic fibre</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>	</b>The experimental results are summarised in table 5.1.<p>
<p>
*	The breakdown mechanism is different for insulating and metallic fibres. In
insulating fibres, the breakdown is due to field emission. Whereas for metallic
fibres, the Joule heating is responsible for fibre heating as observed in the
experiments described here. <p>
<p>
*	For both insulating and metallic fibres, the plasma expands radially outwards
establishing a corona. For thicker fibres, the core persists for a longer
time.<p>
<p>
*	A range of temperatures and densities were observed.<p>
<p>
*	The instabilities are observed to appear earlier for thinner fibres. The
unstable 	behaviour is the common feature of these experiments.<p>
<b>5.4	 Conclusion</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	In this thesis, detailed simultaneous optical and x-ray time resolved
studies on the plasma generated from carbon and aluminium fibres are reported.
The observations clearly show that the pinch expands radialy on initiation of
the current with m=0 instability appearing early in the discharge. This
instabilitiy is observed at later in time for thicker fibres. The bright spots
and electron beam are correlated although the emission from the anode is
observed 5 ns before the intense bright spots and are more intense in the
presence of the electron beam. Islands of density ne &gt; 10<sup>25</sup>
m<sup>-3</sup> are observed at the same axial positions where the optical and
the x-ray bright spots existed. For aluminium fibres, the initial breakdown,
the optical and the x-ray emission from the pinch are different.<p>
<p>
	 These observations show that there is a need to devise schemes to make fibre
pinches more stable in order to achieve radiative collapse and thermonuclear
fusion. The rapid expansion may be prevented by ionising the fibre prior to the
main current pulse. An axial magnetic field may reduce the growth rate of m=0
instability. An understanding of the influence of the electron beams on bright
spot generation may help in devising schemes to make fibre z-pinches more
stable. Some suggestions are made in section 5.5. <p>
<p>
<b>5.5  Future Work</b>	<p>
<p>
	Recent investigations have high lighted number of issues which need further
experimental work.<p>
<p>
	It has been observed that for insulator fibres, discharge initiates first at
the cathode and then proceeds towards the anode. This phenomenon can be studied
in more detail using schlieren streak photography as it is more sensitive to
small density variations.<p>
	Present investigations show that the pre-pulse current may have profound
effect on the dynamics of the pinch. This requires a systematic study to
evaluate the detailed effect of the pre-pulse using either small current prior
to main current pulse or ionising the fibre with a laser. <p>
<p>
	It has been observed that the pinch expand initially with  velocities of
10<sup>4</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup>. An external magnetic field may help in
preventing the expansion. The main current pulse can compress and heat the
pinch. Some work [5.16] has been performed on this topic but there is a need
for further investigations.<p>
<p>
	Recently, it has been shown [5.15] that imploding a high Z material on to a
fibre improves stability. This may be studied coating the fibre with a high Z
material and heating it using a pre-pulse before the initiation of the main
discharge. <p>
<p>
	It has been observed that the fibre takes a finite time to become fully
ionised and furthermore the state of ionisation is not known. It is suggested
that the use of the multilayer targets and K[[alpha]] spectroscopy may give
temporal information of the current flow  in different layers of the pinch and
state of ionisation with the current rise.<p>
<p>
	Multiframe interferometry and schlieren photography may be performed to
calculate the experimental growth time of m=0 instability and also to relate
the bright spots with the density perturbations or the density islands. The
growth of instabilities may also be studied by introducing perturbations of
different amplitudes in fibre before the discharge. <p>
<p>
	One of the main problems in z-pinch experiments is to discern the actual
regions of the current flow especially at the time of appearance of bright
spots. This problem may be solved using Faraday rotation and Zeeman splitting
techniques in the fibre pinch experiments. <p>
<p>
		In order to diagnose radiative collapse one has to know the radiation losses
from the pinch and the electrical energy supplied to the pinch. For this reason
accurate information of the pinch temperature and density is needed.
Furthermore, the details of input electrical energy is needed that is the
current and the voltage. The current can be measured but the development of a
suitable method to measure the voltage between the electrodes is needed.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>References</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>[5.1]	S. Ishii, M. Fukuta, K. Shimizu, Y. Hoshina, T. Mineshima, M.
Kanou, Y. Liu, 		and S. Ogura, Proceedings of Second International Conference
for Dense Z-		pinches <b>299</b>, 320, Laguna Beach (1989).<p>
<p>
[5.2]	W. Kies, G. Decker et al., J. Appl. Phys. <b>70</b>, 7261 (1991).<p>
<p>
[5.3]	J. P. Chittenden, Private Communication (1995).<p>
suitable<p>
[5.3]	J. P. Chittenden, J. M. Bayley, I. M. Mitchell, K. Wilson, J. F. Worley,
P. Choi, 		A. E. Dangor, and M. G. Haines, Proceedings of the 10th
International Conference 		on high power particle beams, pp. 756, San Diego CA,
(1994).<p>
<p>
[5.4]	J. E. Hammel and D. W. Scudder, Proceedings of the 14th European
Conf
--------------42D612514479--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:06:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA07065; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33210D57.2315 rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:55:19 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Farhat spark exp.: chapter 5
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------19D9284A608B"
Resent-Message-ID: <"UeYp_.0.Jk1.ZvF8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4810
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------19D9284A608B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter5/chapter5.html

--------------19D9284A608B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="chapter5.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chapter5.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/chapter5/chapter5.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter5/chapter5.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>chapter 5</title></head><body><b></b><p>
<b>LASER PRODUCED Z-PINCH</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>CHAPTER 5	</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Laser Characteristics and diagnostics</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.0	Introduction</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	In this chapter, the description of the short pulse laser used for the
laser produced z-pinch experiments is given. A variety of diagnostics viz., the
filtered x-ray time integrated pinhole camera, the differentially filtered PIN
diodes, the scintillator/photomultiplier, the fibre dosimeter and the penumbral
imaging camera were used to observe the x-ray emission within the sub keV to
MeV energy range. Some of these diagnostics were also used to record the
collimated plasma column as a result of the self generated magnetic field.
Other diagnostics such as CR39 imaging and K[[alpha]] spectroscopy were also
used to detect the fast ions and the electrons produced as a result of the
short pulse laser/solid interaction. <p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.1	Laser characteristics</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	VULCAN Nd glass laser was used for the laser produced z-pinch experiments
[5.1]. The Chirped Pulse Amplification (CPA) technique was used to obtain short
pulses of the order of ~ 1 psec. A CW train of low energy pulses (&lt; 1 nJ, 2
ps) were obtained from the oscillator. The pulse train was amplified before
selecting a single pulse. This pulse was then stretched to ~ 80 ps in a double
pass grating configuration and fed to the high power Nd glass amplifier chain.
The output diameter and energy of the beam was 135 mm and 80 J respectively.
The beam was then recompressd using a second pair of gratings. Because of the
optical losses and the damage threshold of the gratings, only half of the
maximum available output energy (80 J) is transferred to the target. The
restricted maximum energy is thus 40 J. The contrast ratio of the pre-pulse and
the main pulse was 10<sup>-6</sup>. The beam was focused by an off-axis
parabola coated with multilayer dielectric to give the reflectivity in excess
of  99% at 1053 nm wavelength. The beam path in the target area is shown in
figure 5.1. <p>
<p>
	To estimate the energy at the focal spot, a series of shots were taken by
focusing the beam through 100 um thick platinum substrate. The estimated energy
for a spot size of 50 um was 6 J to 23 J. The laser spot size was reduced to 15
um x 15 um in order to get higher intensity. Table 5.1 shows the laser
parameters for the different short pulse laser solid experiments described in
this work . <p>
<p>
Table 5.1<p>


<pre>
                Laser         Pulse length    Spot size                        
               Energy        (ps)            (micron)      Intensity           
               (J)                                         (W/cm2)             
 Experiment           5-30         2.1-7.5       50-90      1.0x1017-1.2x1018  
1                                                                              
 Experiment           5-30         1.8-4.0       30-60      2.0x1017-2.0x1018  
2                                                                              
 Experiment           8-20         0.9-1.3       20-50      1.0x1018-2.0x1018  
3                                                                              

</pre>
<p>
<b>5.2	Target Chamber</b><p>
<p>
	A single laser beam was focused onto the target using an off axis parabola.
The target and the mirror positions were adjustable when the target chamber was
under vacuum. The base pressure of 10<sup>-4</sup> torr was used. The alignment
and focusing of the target was attained using the second harmonic of the beam.
<p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	A number of solid targets were irradiated. Four target materials, -
Plastic (mylar), carbon (graphite), copper and gold were used for the first
series of experiments. The target geometry was normally a solid slab but for
gold and copper targets small lollipop disks 270 um in diameter and 10 um in
thickness were used. The thickness of the disks was increased to 50 um for
mylar targets. All targets were placed at  an angle of 30<sup>0 </sup>to the
beam mainly to eliminate as much as possible the back-scattered radiation from
the target likely to interfere with the laser chain. <p>
<p>
	For the second series of experiments, mylar and aluminium disc targets of
diameter 270 um and thickness of 36 um were used. For the third series of
experiments, multilayer targets and C8D8 (deuterated plastic) targets were
used.  25 um lead deposition on 72 um Sn and 50 um lead deposition on 72 um Sn
were used for Ka  spectroscopy.<p>
<p>
<b>5.3	Diagnostics</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Numerous diagnostics as described below, were used to study the
features of the short pulse laser/solid interaction. <p>
<p>
<b>5.3.1  Time Integrated pinhole photography </b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>A pair of x-ray time integrated pinhole cameras were used for the
following purposes: <p>
<p>
i)	to record the collimated column of the plasma as a result of the self
induced 	magnetic field <p>
ii)	to record the size of the x-ray spot and,<p>
iii)	to calculate the x-ray yield. <p>
<p>
	The time integrated pinhole cameras were positioned at different angles with
respect to the target normal, in order to observe both the collimated plasma
column and the x-ray spot produced due to the laser beam interaction. The
magnification between 2x and 10x was used for the time integrated pinhole
images. Several x-ray filters were used to obtain the spectral information. A
variety of pinhole apertures ranging from 5 um to 50 um were used. The pinhole
apertures were 100 um thick platinum substrates. <p>
<p>
	The images were recorde on Kodak DEF film. The calibration curves for DEF film
are shown in section 2.6. A stack of the film layers was used to record the
hard x-rays passing through the subsequent layers. <p>
<p>
<b>5.3.2  Scintillator/photomultiplier </b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	Normally scintillator/photomultiplier is used to detect hard x-rays and
neutron emission from a plasma [5.2]. In this experiment four
scintillator/photomultiplier were used to ascertain the energy of the hard
x-rays. NaI (Tl) crystals were used due to their better quantum efficiency. NaI
(Tl) crystals were 2.54 cm in diameter and 5 cm in length. These crystals are
sensitive to gamma ray energies in excess of 4 MeV. The absorption curve for
the NaI crystals  along with the filter transmission are shown in figure 5.2.
The NaI crystals were coupled to Phillips XP 2008 photomultipliers using
silicon vacuum grease to minimise the difference in the refractive indices of
the glass window of the photomultiplier and the quartz window of the NaI
crystals.<p>
<p>
	Four scintillator/photomultiplier were placed three meters away from the
target to avoid over saturation of the photomultiplier. Two collimators were
placed between scintillator/photomultiplier and the target. One collimator was
located in-side the chamber and 20 cm away from the target. This collimator was
machined from a solid Pb piece. Four through holes were drilled at 4<sup>0
</sup>with reference to the central axis. The holes were 1 cm in diameter and
the pitch distance between the holes was 2.5 cm. The overall length of the
collimator was 240 cm and it was bolted directly onto the chamber wall. An
aluminium plate of 1 cm thickness was used as a vacuum flange on the
collimators. A second collimator was placed outside and at a distance of 50 cm
from the chamber wall. This collimator consisted of a 10 cm thick lead blocks
having one cm diameter holes at an angle of 4<sup>0</sup> with reference to the
centre. The four photomultipliers were placed inside a 10 cm thick lead box to
avoid the effect of any scattered radiation. The x-ray coupling between the
photomultipliers and the target was via four apertures drilled in the lead box.
The photomultipliers and the scintillators were all retained within 1.5 mm
thick aluminium cylinders to avoid the risk of any flourescence produced by
high z materials. X-ray filters were placed at two different places, one at the
external collimators to avoid any fluorescence produced by high z material
filters and other at the aperture of the box which contained
scintillator/photomultiplier in order to avoid any scattered x-radiation from
the walls or diagnostic equipment. Beyond the lead filters at the aperture of
lead box, an aluminium sheet of thickness 1 cm was placed to avoid any
fluorescence produced in the lead. The geometrical arrangement of the
photomultipliers with respect to the target is shown in figure 5.3. The
photomultipliers were aligned with respect to the target using He-Ne laser.
Several lead sheets were used as x-ray filters. A thin lead filter was used in
front of one photomultiplier to observe the variation in x-ray yield from shot
to shot. The photomultipliers were calibrated using Co60 (1.26 MeV) and Cs137
(665 keV) gamma ray sources. The calibration was also confirmed by theoretical
calculations based on the quantum efficiency of the scintillator and the gain
of the photomultipliers appropriate at the operating voltage.<p>
 <p>
<b>5.3.3  Penumbral Imaging</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	In laser-produced plasma experiments, a pinhole camera is normally used
to observe the energetic x-rays and the particle emission. But to attain high
resolution images, one has to compromise the collection efficiency of these
cameras. To overcome this problem, the penumbral imaging technique was proposed
by Nugent and Luther Davies [5.3]. In this technique the coded circular
aperture is larger than the source size and can be  formed with ease in a thick
substrate. <p>
<p>
	The penumbral imaging consists of two steps, the first step is the formation
of the image which conceptually is the same as the pinhole image but in this
case the pinhole size is larger than the source size. A source of incoherent
radiation casts a geometrical shadow through a circular aperture, thereby
producing a coded image that consists of a bright uniformly illuminated central
region surrounded by a partially illuminated penumbra [5.4].  All the
information about the source is hidden in the image because of the
superposition of the source distribution with the aperture transmission. As the
coded image is the superposition of the source distribution and the aperture
transmission, it does not show the actual shape of the image. This arrangement
is shown in figure 5.4.<p>
<p>
              
<IMG SRC="chapter51.gif"><p>
<p>
	                         Figure 5.4:  Concept of penumbral imaging<p>
<p>
	In the second step, the source distribution is decoded from the coded image
using numerical techniques and knowledge of the aperture shape. The technique
of the maximum entropy is used for the analysis of the results. <p>
<p>
	The penumbral imaging camera was placed at an angle of 58<sup>0</sup> to the
horizontal and 38<sup>0</sup> to the vertical from the target normal. The
magnification of 50 and an aperture of diameter of 80 um made from gold piece
in a lead cone was used. Lead sheets were wrapped around the camera to avoid
any scattered x-rays entering into the camera.<p>
<p>
	Filters of various materials and of differing thicknesses were used for the
penumbral imaging but good results were obtained with 20 um aluminium and 5 um
tantalum. The transmission curves of the filters are shown in figure 5.5. Kodak
DEF x-ray film was used to record these images.<p>
<p>
<p>
<IMG SRC="chapter52.gif"><p>
      Figure  5.5: DEF response for 20 um aluminium and 5 um tantalum<p>
<p>
<b>5.3.4  PIN Diodes</b><p>
<b></b> <p>
	A pair of quantrad PIN diodes with a dead and intrinsic layers of 0.25 um and
250 um respectively were differentially filtered to obtain information about
the x-ray emission in the energy range 7 keV to 150 keV. The details of these
PIN diodes are given in section 2.2.6.  The PIN diodes were placed in the
direction of the target normal about 40 cm away from the target, on the chamber
wall. The signals were fed to dual channel Gould 100 MHz oscilloscope. The
x-ray yield is obtained according to the procedure described in section 2.2.6.
The PIN diode sensitivity with and without filter transmission is shown in
figure 5.7. For higher energies, 250 um aluminium filter was used behind high z
filter to stop florescence.<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>5.3.5  Quartz Fibre Dosimeter</b><p>
<p>
	Quartz fibre dosimeters were used to detect x-rays above 100 keV. Five
dosimeters with different materials as filters, were placed outside the
chamber. Two dosimeters were placed behind 1 cm thick aluminium plate to give
cut off energy at 50 keV. The other was placed behind the 44 mm thick chamber
wall to give 1% transmission at 500 keV. Fourth fibre dosimeter was placed
inside a 3 mm lead tube but outside the stainless steel chamber. The
calibration curves for the fibre dosimeters with the filter transmission are
shown in figure 5.8. These calibration curves were provided by the National
Board of Radiation Protection. The calibration curves are obtained assuming
that dose received by pocket dosimeters is same as received by a  human being .
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>OTHER DIAGNOSTICS</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>5.3.5  CR 39 Plastic detectors:</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	The solid state nuclear track detector (SSNTD) is an established
powerful tool for the detection of nuclear particles [5.5]. The SSNTD detectors
are insensitive to light, x-rays and electrons but the rate of ionisation is
directly proportional to the particle nuclear charge z of the nuclear particle
and inversely proportional to its relativistic velocity b. These can record
alpha particles and protons upto 18 MeV.<p>
<p>
	2.5 cm<sup>2 </sup>CR-39 plastic detectors were used to monitor particles with
energies &gt; 75 keV/nucleon. These were also used to quantize the ion species,
the energy distribution and the total number of particles incident on the
detector and the angular distribution of the particles around the axis normal
to the target surface. In all tests a piece of CR-39 in the horizontal plane at
45<sup>0</sup> and 75<sup>0</sup> to the target normal was placed on the
chamber wall, and at a distance of 46 cm from the target. A mylar filter
consisting of steps varying from 2 um of mylar upto 16 um, were placed on each
other to make a wedge for a spectral range. For some shots, two additional
pieces of plastic were placed at 20<sup>0</sup> and 60<sup>0</sup> to the
target normal. <p>
<p>
	In the second and third set of experiments, seven CR-39 detectors were placed
around the target. The CR-39 was covered with an array of 12 mylar filters that
increased in thickness in steps of 2.5 um and steps of aluminium of thickness
25 um. Each step is sensitive to different energy interval, giving an energy
resolution of ~ 0.1 MeV in the range 0.1-6 MeV. <p>
<p>
	 The information recorded in CR-39 is very sensitive to the etching process
and track counting process. According to Fews [5.6] measuring the number of
tracks is susceptible to  human errors. Most skilled scanner may measure only
few hundred scans per week. Fews has reported a new computer controlled system
which can count upto 10<sup>5</sup> particles per hour. With this system, the
track parameters can be measured to a resolution of 0.2 um. The energy of the
particles is determined by the depth of the particle penetration in CR-39 and
the diameter of the cone made by the particle. Fews has discussed this
technique in detail [5.7].<p>
<p>
<b>5.3.6  K[[alpha]] Spectroscopy</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	An x-ray Charge Coupled Device (CCD) (Reticon RA1024J with  a million 13.5 um
x 13.5 square pixels Si device with 4.5 um thick depletion layer) was used for
obtaining the x-ray spectra [5.9]. The CCD is used in a single shot mode. The
distance of the Charge Coupled Device from the source and the filter is so
chosen as to ensure that the probability of two photons interacting with the
pixel is small. In this mode, the Vp value read out from each pixel by the
digitising system is directly proportional to the energy of the x-ray photon
Ep. <p>
<p>
	The detector measures two parameters, the number of photons at a particular
energy determined by the number of pixels at a particular value Vp and the
x-ray spectrum determined as a first approximation by the a histogram of the
image and the x-ray spectrum. <p>
<p>
	The detector number response is the probability that a photon interacts with a
pixel and is obtained from the thicknesses of the dead layer and the depletion
layer and the mass absorption coefficients of silicon. This can be multiplied
with the transmission of the filters to give the curve shown in fig. 5.9. The
system was calibrated using a 4.1 uCi Cd 109 source for a 180 ns exposure. This
source decays to Ag 109 by electron capture. The silver emits K shell radiation
and from the published results, this consists of 83.4% K[[alpha]] at 22 keV and
16.4% at 25 keV. <p>
<p>
	The energy response of the detector depends on the CCD and the read out
system circuitry. The calibration was obtained by plotting a graph of the
photon energy due to the line Ep against the value from the known lines of the
various solid targets used. The detector energy Ep is related linearly to Vp
as, <p>
<p>
	Ep=0.00818Vp -3.01 	     for 17.5 keV&lt;Ep&lt;28.5 keV	(5.1)		<p>
<p>
<b>5.4  Summary</b><p>
<p>
	In this chapter, the laser characteristics along with the various parameters
involved in different sets of experiments have been described. A brief
description of the target chamber and the target materials used in the
experiments is also given. <p>
<p>
	A description of the diagnostics used for the study of the phenomena
associated with the short pulse laser/solid interaction is also given.  <p>
<p>
<b>Correction on April 4</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>References:</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>[5.1]	 C.N. Danson et al., Opt. Comm., <b>103</b>, 392 (1993).<p>
<p>
[5.2]	 G.F. Knoll, Radiation Detection and Measurement, New York:Wiley, 1979.<p>
<p>
[5.3]	 K. A. Nugent and B. Luther-Davies, Optics, Comm., <b>49</b>, 393,
1984.<p>
<p>
[5.4]	 R.A. Lerche, D. Ress, R. J. Ellis and S.M. Lane, Laser and particle
beams , 	 	 <b>9</b>,1991.<p>
<p>
[5.5]	 D. L. Henshaw, Phys. Tech., <b>13</b>, 266, 1982.<p>
<p>
[5.6]	 A.P. Fews, Nucl. Instr. and Methods in Phys. Res., <b>B71</b>, 465,
1992.<p>
<p>
[5.7]	 A.P. Fews, Nucl. Instr. and Methods in Phys. Res., <b>B72</b>, 91,
1992.<p>
<p>
[5.8]	 David H. Lumb and Andrew D. Holland, Nuclear Instruments and Methods in
	 Physics Research, <b>A273</b>, 696, 1988: David H. Lumb and J. A. Nousek,
SPIE 	 	 Proceedings on X-ray Detector Physics and Applications, 1992.<b></b><p>
<b></b>
</body></html>
--------------19D9284A608B--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:07:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA08909; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:36:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:36:41 -0800
Message-ID: <332109CE.1D0D rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:40:14 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: List of figures
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------773D218D5BE1"
Resent-Message-ID: <"Bft2F3.0.7B2.dhF8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4807
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------773D218D5BE1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/contents/Listoffigures.html

--------------773D218D5BE1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="Listoffigures.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Listoffigures.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/contents/Listoffigures.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/contents/Listoffigures.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>List of figures</title></head><body><b></b><p>
<b>LIST OF FIGURES</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Chapter 1									     Page</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>1.1	Schematic of a z-pinch configuration.					19<p>
<p>
1.2(a)	Schematic of the sausage instability.					19<p>
<p>
1.2(b)	Schematic of the kink instability.						19<p>
<p>
1.3	Diagram of different plasma regimes of a z-pinch.				29<p>
<p>
<b>Chapter 2</b><p>
<b></b><p>
2.1	Schematic of the current generator.						35<p>
2.2	Simulated current waveforms for various ratios of load to 			<p>
	switch inductance.								36<p>
<p>
2.3(a)	Schematic of switch A.							38<p>
<p>
2.3(b)	Schematic of switch B.							38<p>
<p>
2.4	Cross-sectional view of the load chamber.					39<p>
<p>
2.5(a)	Cross-sectional view of a capacitive voltage divider.			41<p>
<p>
2.5(b)	Equivalent circuit of a capacitive voltage divider.				41<p>
<p>
2.6(a)	Cross-sectional of the current monitor.					44<p>
<p>
2.6(b)	Equivalent circuit of the current monitor.					44<p>
<p>
2.7	Triggering and optical layout of an optical streak camera.			44<p>
<p>
2.8	Setup for schlieren photography.						49<p>
<p>
2.9	Set up for interferometry.							49<p>
<p>
2.10(a)	Plot of direct exposure film sensitivity for various energies.		52<p>
<p>
2.10(b)	Plot of direct exposure film sensitivity for various densities.		52<p>
<p>
2.11	Schematic of arrangement for x-ray streak camera.				54<p>
<p>
2.12(a)	Schematic of the PIN diode setup.						56<p>
<p>
2.12(b)	Sensitivity curve for the PIN diode.					56<p>
<p>
2.13	Setup for scintillator/photomultiplier.					58<p>
<p>
2.14	Schematic of a timing sequence.						60<p>
	<p>
<b>Chapter 3 </b><p>
<b></b><p>
3.1(a)	Measured voltages at the pulse forming line for a 1.5 mm diameter 	<p>
	short circuit with switches A and B.	63<p>
<p>
3.1(b)	Measured voltages at the transfer line for 7 um carbon fibres with 	<p>
	switches A and B. 	63<p>
<p>
3.2(a)	Measured current through a 1.5 mm short circuit with switches A 	<p>
	and B. The simulated current through a short circuit is also shown in 	<p>
	figure.	64<p>
<p>
3.2(b)	Measured current through 7 um carbon fibres with switches A and B.	64<p>
<p>
3.3	Comparison of the current through 7 um, 33 um carbon and 25 um 	<p>
	aluminium fibres.	64<p>
<p>
3.4(a)	Radial streak photograph for a 7 um carbon fibre with switch A.	67<p>
<p>
3.4(b)	Radial streak photograph for a 7 um carbon fibre with switch B.	67<p>
<p>
3.4(c)	Radial streak photograph for a 7 um carbon fibre with switch B with 	<p>
	reduced pinch length.	67<p>
<p>
3.5(a)	Radial streak photograph for a 33 um carbon fibre with switch B.	68<p>
<p>
3.5(b)	Radial streak photograph for a 25 um aluminium fibre with switch B.	68<p>
<p>
3.6(a)	Plot of radius versus time for a 7 um carbon fibre with switches A and
<p>
	B.	70<p>
<p>
3.6(b)	Plot of radius vs. time for 33 um carbon and 25 um aluminium fibres.
70<p>
<p>
3.7(a)	Optical axial streak photograph for a 7 um carbon fibre with switch A.
72<p>
<p>
3.7(b)	Optical axial streak photograph for a 7 um carbon fibre with switch B.
72<p>
<p>
3.8(a)	Optical axial streak photograph for a 33 um diameter carbon fibre with
<p>
	switch B.	75<p>
<p>
3.8(b)	Axial streak photograph for a 25 um aluminium fibre.	75<p>
<p>
3.9(a)	Set of schlieren photographs for 7 um carbon fibres with switch B.	78<p>
<p>
3.9(b)	Plot of product of wave number and radius of the instability (ka) 	<p>
	against time for 7 um carbon fibres.	79<p>
<p>
3.10	Set of schlieren photographs for 33 um carbon fibres with switch B.	80<p>
<p>
3.11	Set of schlieren photographs for 25 um aluminium fibres with 	<p>
	switch B.	81<p>
<p>
3.12	Set of interferograms for 7 um carbon fibres with switch B.	83<p>
<p>
3.13(a)	Plot of electron number density for an interferogram at 33 ns.	84<p>
<p>
3.13(b)	Plot of electron number density for an interferogram at 84 ns.	84<p>
<p>
3.14	Time integrated x-ray pinhole images for a 7 um carbon fibre and 	<p>
	filter transmission curves used to record these images.	87<p>
<p>
3.15	Time integrated x-ray pinhole images for various pinch lengths for 	<p>
	7 um carbon fibres.	88<p>
<p>
3.16(a)	PIN diode signals for a 7 um carbon fibre.	89<p>
<p>
3.16(b)	PIN diode signal for a 33 um carbon fibre.	89<p>
<p>
3.16(c.)	Sensitivity of the PIN diodes for the signals shown in figures 3.16(a)
<p>
		and (b).	89<p>
<p>
3.17	Time integrated x-ray pinhole images for a 33 um carbon fibre and 	<p>
	transmission curves of the filters used to record these images.	91<p>
<p>
3.18	Time integrated x-ray pinhole images for a 33 um carbon fibre with 	<p>
	high energy electron beam. The transmission curves for the filters are 	<p>
	also shown in figure.	92<p>
<p>
3.19	Time integrated x-ray pinhole images for a 25 um aluminium fibre and 	<p>
	transmission curves of the filters for the images shown.	94<p>
<p>
3.20	Time integrated x-ray pinhole images for a 25 um aluminium fibre 	<p>
	with intense emission from the anode.	95<p>
<p>
3.21(a)	X-ray streak photograph for a 7 um carbon fibre with 0.8 um 	<p>
	aluminium filter.	97<p>
	<p>
3.21(b)	X-ray streak photograph for a 7 um carbon fibre with 1.5 um 	<p>
	aluminium filter.	97<p>
	<p>
3.22	Spatial and temporal coincidence of the optical and x-ray bright spots.
98<p>
<p>
3.23	Simultaneous optical , x-ray streak and time integrated x-ray pinhole 	<p>
	photographs with a schlieren image at 75 ns for a 7 um carbon fibre.	99<p>
<p>
3.24	Simultaneous optical and  x-ray observations for a 7 um carbon fibre 	<p>
	showing at the time of appearance of bright spots. The density is above 	<p>
	the detectable range in the 100 um core.	100<p>
<p>
3.25	Spatial coincidence of the optical , x-ray bright spots and density  	<p>
	islands.	101<p>
<p>
3.26(a)	X-ray streak photograph for a 33 um carbon fibre  with 1.5 um  	<p>
	aluminium filter. 	103<p>
<p>
3.26(b) 	X-ray streak photograph for a 33 um carbon fibre  with 0.8 um  	<p>
	aluminium filter.	103<p>
<p>
3.27	Spatial and temporal coincidence of the optical and x-ray bright spots for
a 33 um  carbon fibre.	104<p>
<p>
3.28(a)	X-ray streak photograph for a 25 um aluminium fibre with 2 um  Al
106<p>
	filter.<p>
	<p>
3.28(b)	X-ray streak photograph for a 25 um aluminium fibre with 10 um Be 	<p>
	filter.	106<p>
<p>
3.29	Simultaneous time integrated x-ray pinhole, optical and x-ray streak  	<p>
	photographs for a 25 um aluminium fibre.	107<p>
<p>
3.30(a)	Spatial coincidence of the density perturbations and x-ray bright spots
<p>
	for a 25 um aluminium fibre.	108<p>
<p>
3.31(a)	Double time integrated x-ray pinhole image for temperature 	<p>
	measurement.	110<p>
<p>
3.31(b)	Line out of the images shown in figure 3.31(a).	110<p>
<p>
3.31(c)	Sensitivity of the DEF film for the images shown in figure 3.31(a).
110<p>
<p>
3.32(a)	Calculated signals for the images shown in figure 3.31(a) and their 	<p>
	ratio.	111<p>
<p>
3.32(b)	Ratio of the images shown in figure 3.31(a).	111<p>
<p>
3.32(c)	Temperature along the pinch axis for a 7 um carbon fibre.	111<p>
<p>
3.33(a)	Scintillator/photomultiplier signals for carbon fibres. The current
<p>
	waveform is also shown.	114<p>
<p>
3.33(b)	Transmission curves of the filters used to record the hard x-ray
signals.	114<p>
<p>
3.34	Energy spectrum of the 16 keV and 7 keV electron beam.	116<p>
<p>
3.35(a)	Triple time integrated x-ray pinhole image of the anode.	117<p>
<p>
3.35(b)	Line out of the images shown in figure 3.35(a).	117<p>
<p>
3.35(c)	DEF sensitivities for the filters used to record the images shown in
figure 	3.35(a).	117<p>
<p>
3.36(a)	Spectral signal on DEF film for 16 keV electron beam with the filter
pair 	of 10 um  copper and 40 um Ti.	118<p>
<p>
3.36(b)	Ratio of the calculated signal versus the electron beam energy.	118<p>
<p>
3.37(a)	Uncollimated PIN diode signal for a 7 um carbon fibre with 10 um 	<p>
	copper filter.	120<p>
<p>
3.37(b)	Sensitivity of the PIN diode with 10 um copper filter.	120<p>
<p>
3.37(c)	Calculated signal against the electron beam energy for a PIN diode <p>
	with 10 um copper filter.	120<p>
<p>
<b>Chapter 4</b><p>
<p>
4.1(a)	Schematic of the model for the history of vaporisation.	125<p>
<p>
4.1(b)	Calculated ion line density during the ablation phase.	125<p>
<p>
4.2	Three frames from the results of 2D resistive MHD simulations showing
bifurcation and the axial motion of the bright spots.	132<p>
<p>
4.3(a)	Spectra from RATION for Li, He and Hydrogen like carbon ions for 	<p>
	100 eV.	133<p>
<p>
4.3(b)	Spectra from RATION for Li, He and Hydrogen like carbon ions for 	<p>
	500 eV.	133<p>
<p>
4.4	Position of carbon fibre experiments at various times in a diagram of the
<p>
	different  regimes of carbon pinch plasma.	137<p>
<p>
4.5(a)	Radius versus time for a 7 um carbon fibre derived from a radial streak
<p>
	photograph. The solid line is a curve fit to the experimental points.	140<p>
<p>
4.5(b)	Acceleration against time for a 7 um carbon fibre.	140<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
</body></html>
--------------773D218D5BE1--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:09:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA11614; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:56:28 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:56:28 -0800
Message-ID: <33210E6B.4EBF rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:59:55 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Farhat spark exp.: Acknowledgment
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5089254D504B"
Resent-Message-ID: <"KmDuC.0.Kr2.B-F8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4812
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------5089254D504B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/zAcknowledgment.html

--------------5089254D504B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="zAcknowledgment.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="zAcknowledgment.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/zAcknowledgment.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/zAcknowledgment.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>Acknowledgment</title></head><body><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Acknowledgements</b><p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
I would like to thank the members of the Plasma Physics Group at I.C. who
helped in many ways during this work. Amongst these, I would like to mention
particularly:-<p>
<p>
My supervisor, Mr. A. E. Dangor for his continuous encouragement, enthusiasm
and fruitful suggestions throughout the course of my work.<p>
<p>
Professor M. G. Haines for encouragement and accepting me as a Ph.D. student in
his group and also for providing financial assistance during the write up stage
of this thesis.<p>
<p>
Dr. Khalik Malik for going through the entire thesis and making positive
suggestions.<p>
<p>
P. Lee for help in some of the experiments and giving invaluable suggestions
during this work. <p>
<p>
Dr. I. Mitchell, Dr. J. Chittenden and Mr. J. Worley for positive comments on
various parts of this dissertation.<p>
<p>
M. Tatarakis for helping in schlieren and interferometry. Dr. Raul Aliaga for
general discussion on z-pinch physics. Zulfikar Najmudin for helping in matters
related with Mackintosh and also for social activities.<p>
<p>
Drs. S. Niffikeer and Richard Appartaim for introduction to the high voltage
equipment and useful advice on carbon fibre experiments<p>
<p>
Brian Fantini, J. Beckwith and Fred Lockyer of college workshop for their help
in the fabrication of some of the experimental apparatus.<p>
<p>
Professor G. Murtaza and Dr. M. Zakaullah of Quaid-i-Azam University for their
support and encouragement during initial stages of my career.<p>
<p>
Mrs. Haines and Christ Church authorities for providing a beautiful flat near
college for my stay.<p>
<p>
The British Council for administrating everything so perfectly and the
Association of Commonwealth Universities for giving me a financial support to
study at Imperial College. <p>
<p>
Some additional work related to laser/solid interaction was carried out at
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory. I am grateful to Drs. P. Norreys<b> </b>and P.
Fews<b> </b>for their cooperation and advice.<p>
<p>
Last but by no means least, my parents M. M. Yaqub Beg and Fahmida Begum, for
their constant encouragement throughout the period of my studies.<p>
</body></html>
--------------5089254D504B--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:09:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA07239; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:53:01 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:53:01 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33210DAF.4F31 rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:56:47 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: chapter 6
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7557500A23CB"
Resent-Message-ID: <"gmknI2.0.zm1.wwF8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4811
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------7557500A23CB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter6/chapter6.html

--------------7557500A23CB
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="chapter6.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chapter6.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/chapter6/chapter6.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/chapter6/chapter6.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>chapter 6</title></head><body><b>Chapter 6 	Observations and
Discussions</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>6.0	Introduction:</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>In this chapter experimental results are described. These results are
obtained using wide range of diagnostics described in previous chapter.  The
results described in this chapter under the conditions where the laser pulse is
short compared with the hydrodynamic response time of the plasma and heating
occurs close to the critical density [first paragraph of the paper PRE]. <p>
<p>
<b>Time integrated pinhole camera photography:</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>The pinhole cameras show clearly that in nearly  all high intensity
plasma shots there is a collimated plume of the plasma flowing from the target
in the direction of the target normal. A pinhole camera that was placed at a
large angle to the target normal shows collimated plasma column. For this
particular shot laser energy was 23 J on the target with a pulse duration of
1.82 ps this correspond to intensity of 2 x 10<sup>18</sup> W/cm<sup>2 .</sup>
This shows plume length of about 600 mm ( Fig.6.1). Other time integrated
pinhole image is taken with a long pulse of length 1 ns. This show that plasma
is not collimated but  expands outward at a wide angle. The laser intensity for
this particular shot is 1 x 10<sup>15</sup> W/cm<sup>2</sup>. For both shots
same filters 6 um mylar + 0.3 um aluminium  was used . <p>
<p>
It is possible to distinguish between the heated plasma on the target
surrounding the focused laser spot and the collimated plasma plume flowing
along the target normal due to oblique  angle of the pinhole cameras. Figure 3
shows the full width at half maximum (FWHM) of the x-ray images of the heated
plasma at the target surface (measured in vertical dimension of the incident
laser beam). it should be noted that different filters were used for different
target materials. Nevertheless, it appears from fig. 6.3 that the target plasma
surrounding the laser focal spot increases with increasing incident laser
energy. The equivalent monitor showed that the focal spot had a vertical
dimension of 15 um and horizontal dimension of 50 um. It is found from x-ray
images that the vertical dimension was never less than 60 um. The vertical to
horizontal dimensions were in the ratio of 2:3 as shown in fig. 6.5.  This
suggests that the increase in the focal spot is due to radiation and electron
energy transport not due to laser imprint. Due to laser non uniformity, It has
been observed that image consists of two spots or sometime more than two spots.
<p>
<p>
Another interesting feature of these time integrated pinhole images is the
x-ray yield which increases with increase in z number of the material and
incident laser energy.  Figure 6.7 show that the x-ray yield increases with z
number of the material. These data is taken for similar laser energy and same
filters were used for different target material.  The filter used here was 5 um
tantalum. the transmission curve of this filter alongwith DEF film sensitivity
is shown in 6.8. The dependence of x-ray yield on laser energy/ intensity is
shown  in fig.    .<p>
<p>
<b>PIN diode Observations:</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>Two PIN diodes were employed to monitor the x-ray emission due to laser
plasma interaction. These PIN diodes were mounted in the direction of target
normal. Several filter arrangements were used to define the windows of
energies. Table 6.1 shows the filters used and corresponding peak value of
energy considered,<p>
<p>
<b>Energy		Filter1			Filter2</b><p>
<b></b><p>
7 keV		10 um Cu			37 um Ti<p>
13 keV		250 um Al			500 um Al<p>
20 keV		250 um Al			1 mm Al<p>
35 keV		250 um Cu			500 um Cu<p>
150 keV		500 um Lead		1.5 mm Lead<p>
<p>
Figure 6.5 shows variation in x-ray yield with laser energy. This shows that
x-ray yield increases with increase in laser energy. But relation ship is not
clear due to variation in laser focusing and due to beam structure at higher
energies. Interesting thing overhere is the higher values of x-ray yield for 20
keV and increase in laser energy does not effect the x-ray yield in this
region. It has also been observed that conversion efficiency around this value
of photon energy is maximum. <p>
<IMG SRC="chapter61.gif"><p>
X-ray yield also decreases with increase in photon energy. Figure 6.6 shows
that x-ray yield is maximum at lower photon energies as compared to higher
energies. For this particular graph, laser energies considered were between
10-15 J on the target. Comparison between high z and low z targets show that
x-ray emission is higher for high z material and lower for low z material. <p>
<p>
<IMG SRC="chapter62.gif"><p>
<p>
<p>
It has been found that x-ray conversion efficiency is maximum at 20 keV which
is above 1% but it decreases exponentially with increase in photon energy.
X-ray yield from high z material was higher than from low z material mainly CD.
<p>
<p>
<b>PM/Scintillator Combination:</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>PM/Scintilltor combination show that gamma ray emission peaks at 4 MeV.
Figure shows that number of photons increase with increase laser intensity. The
number of photons produced at 4 MeV average 10<sup>4</sup>. Number of photons
at the same energy for low z material are one order less. For a particular
shot, a 2 mm and 20 mm lead filter was placed in front of the photomultipliers,
the signal ratio was same as the ratio of transmission of these two filters, In
order to check the experimental value, Bremsstrahlung was assumed and
transmission of the filter, efficiency of NaI crystal, solid angle were taken
into account. The calibrations which were performed by well defined sources
were also taken into account. The theoretical calculations show that for a
temperature of 300 keV, one can get theoretical signal equal to the
experimental signal. <p>
<p>
<b>Fast Ions:</b><p>
<p>
In order to see the collimation  many pieces of CR-39 were placed near to the
target normal.  Figure   shows that fast ion spectrum is 100 - 700 keV which
was obtained by counting the particle tracks in the different mylar layers. The
spectrum in the energy region 0.7 - 1.5 MeV was analysed by the measurement of
individual particle tracks. The count is per 20 keV energy bin. The number of
tracks in both energy bins was counted over a solid angle of 10<sup>-7</sup>
sr.<p>
<p>
With detailed spectroscopy, it was found that on all shots of any type of
target material the particles were protons. This observations that fast ions
are protons even for nonhydrogenic targets are consistent with previous
observations [Gitomer et al], where they are presumed to be associated with
hydrocarbon contamination of the target surface and with theory [Wickens and
Allen, 1981] which shows that lighter ions are accelerated to higher
velocities. Figure  4 clearly shows that there is a peak  in the spectrum at
300 - 400 keV after which there is an exponentially decaying tail. Particles
upto 1.5 MeV were detected. The broad peak and exponential tail were observed
in all shots. By fitting an exp(-E/kT) curve to the exponentially decaying
tail, a best fit ion temperature of 200 keV was fitted for this particular
shot. The measured ion temperature were in a range 100-200 keg.  In order to
see the collimation due to magnetic field, the CR-39 were placed at different
angles. The angular flux of 100 - 300 keV detected by the CR-39 is shown in
fig.   . It is clear that these ions are collimated  into a half angle cone of
~ 10<sup>0</sup>. Figure   shows the total flux incident on the detector with
angle. It shows that integrated fast ion emission is rather broader and
occupies a ~ 20<sup>0 </sup> half angle cone. Clearly these results show that
plasma blows off is collimated about the target normal. By knowing the number
of ions, the solid angle of the detector and the energy of the particles, it is
now possible to estimate the absorbed laser energy. Assuming that there is a
symmetry about the target normal in the ion emission  and that all ions making
tracks in the detector were protons, then the energy absorbed  in the &gt;100
keV range averaged ~2% of the incident energy and was never greater than ~ 5%.
This absorption fraction  in the fast ions did not appear to vary with target
material and remained fairly constant over the range (1.0 - 12.0) x
10<sup>17</sup> W/cm<sup>2</sup> incident radiance.<p>
<p>
Further experiments were performed with higher intensity, some exciting results
were observed from CR-39 detectors. It has been observed that ion emission
predominantly from protons though in some cases emission from carbon ions has
also been observed. These carbon ions are easily distinguishable from protons
since they have much larger rate of energy loss in CR-39 resulting in different
growth characteristics. Although in a few cases the maximum carbon energy was
as large as half the maximum proton energy, the flux was much lower, no more
than 10%  of the energy was contained in non hydrogenic ions above 100 keV. The
highest ions were observed along the target normal. The ion emission in fig. 2
shows an exponential decreasing profile with increasing energy followed by a
sharp cut-off at 4.2 MeV. In this case 32 J in 2.4 ps was incident on the
target with an irradiance of 1.2 x 10<sup>18</sup> W/cm<sup>2</sup>. The
behaviour was typical in two third shots. Figure 2b shows different behaviour
of the ion spectrum, this shows non exponential behaviour. This was observed in
one third of the extended shots. In this case 24 J laser energy was incident on
target in 2.6 ps at an incident intensity of 1.2 x 10<sup>18</sup>
W/cm<sup>2</sup>. a variety of different shapes were observed for the non
exponential profiles at higher energies.<p>
<p>
The velocity distribution has been shown to be dependent on scaling parameter
rs/c[[tau]], where rs  is the focal spot radius, c is the sound speed and
[[tau]]  is the laser pulse length [Grun et al., Phys. Fluids, 1986]. Hot spot
will change the distribution locally and influence the overall ion velocity
profile. All of the data show a very sharp cut-off energy: This is real effect
since the particle detection threshold in two orders of magnitude smaller than
the lower limit.<p>
<p>
Fig.3 shows mean energy of the particles in keV plotted against incident
intensity. The solid circles and triangles show the mean energy for the
exponential and non exponential spectra respectively. The two categories of
spectra are not resolved from each other within the scatter of measurements.
All ion data show a very sharp cut-off in the ion energy spectra. This feature
becomes more progressively prominent with higher intensity. The cut-off proton
energy recorded in the CR-39 plotted against the irradiance is shown in fig. 3.
The open circles and triangles represent the exponantial and non exponantial
spectral shapes respectively. Protons with energies upto 5.5 MeV were observed.
It can be seen that cut off energy is rougly proprtional to the intensity of
the incident beam. <p>
<p>
to determine the percentage of laser energy transferred to fast ions, knowledge
of the angular distribution of energy is required. Half of the fast ion
emission was confined to a half angle cone of 20<sup>0</sup>.  Measurements in
the horizontal and vertical directions indicate that the plasma emission is
conically symmetric. Figure 4 shows the percentage of laser energy absorbed as
function of incident intensity. At an intensity of 2 x 10<sup>18</sup>
W/cm<sup>2</sup>, 10% of laser energy is transferred to ions with energies &gt;
100 keV/nucleon and mean energy of 1.3 MeV. <p>
<p>
<b>Neutron Observations:</b><p>
<p>
When high intensity laser was shined onto a Cd target, high flux of neutrons
was observed. The CR-39 detectors were used to record neutron spectra, the
proton reciol method was used. CR-39 records charged nuclear particles which
are ecthed track, the dimensions and depth of penetration of which enable
energy and atomic number of fast ions to be indvidually determined. In this
way, nuetrons of each particular energy produce different characteristic
distribution of proton track size. A maximum entropy unfolding technique,
similar to that used in image deconvolution is [Fews et al] then applied to the
recorded track size distribution to the measured data. The spectrum which is
produced in the flattesest (maximum entropy) neutron distribution where the
measured and predicted distribution are consistent with each other. The
resulting spectrum will then only contain those significant features which are
required to fit the predicted proton track distribution to the measured data.
<p>
<p>
<b>Discussion:</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>
</body></html>
--------------7557500A23CB--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:14:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA10226; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:44:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:44:48 -0800
Message-ID: <33210B76.3A84 rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:47:18 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rmforall rt66.com, wireless@rmii.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Farhat spark exp.: Chapter1
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6B1B59BC3A5B"
Resent-Message-ID: <"c-KHR2.0.KV2.EpF8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4808
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------6B1B59BC3A5B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/Chapter1/chapter1.html

--------------6B1B59BC3A5B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="chapter1.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="chapter1.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far
	/FT/Chapter1/chapter1.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~zn1/pub/Far/FT/Chapter1/chapter1.html">

<html><head><!-- This document was created from RTF source by rtftohtml version
2.7.5 --><title>Chapter1</title></head><body><b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Chapter 1</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Introduction</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>1.1	Introduction</b><p>
<p>
	The inevitable decline in the world fossil energy reserves within the next
50-70 years has prompted a serious quest for alternative energy sources.
Controlled thermonuclear fusion is being pursued with great vigour as a
possible solution to the long term energy problems.<p>
<p>
	Currently, Tokamak and inertial confinement fusion programmes are at a fairly
advanced stage but there are still enormous engineering problems to be overcome
in both of these areas. The dense z-pinch (DZP) is an alternative which is
being pursued in various laboratories all around the world. <p>
<p>
	In a Tokamak, the plasma is both confined and heated by the longitudinal
current, but a large external toroidal magnetic field is used to stabilise the
hot plasma. In a conventional inertial confinement fusion, the target material
is compressed to such high densities by the inward compression due to the
surface ablation induced by the laser solid interaction that the Lawson
criterion can be satisfied in the time taken for the plasma to disassemble. In
a linear DZP configuration, a large current is passed through a deuterium fibre
and the plasma so formed confined by the inward <b>J</b> x <b>B</b> force due
to the interaction of the discharge current <b>J </b>and<b> </b>the self
generated azimuthal magnetic field <b>B</b>.<p>
<p>
	The work described in this thesis is concerned with the DZP configuration. In
particular it is concerned with the investigations of the instability that the
DZP is subject to, which destroys the confinement. Only pinches formed in
carbon and aluminium fibres are reported. However, most of the observations are
expected to occur in deuterium fibre pinches.<p>
  <p>
	The main requirements for thermonuclear fusion is to compress the fuel
material (D-D or D-T) to high densities (~ 10<sup>28</sup> m<sup>-3</sup>)<sup>
</sup>and then keep the plasma at ignition temperature ( ~ 100 keV for D-D
&amp; 10 keV for D-T) for a time sufficient to satisfy the Lawson criterion
(n[[tau]] &gt; 10<sup>22</sup> m<sup>-3</sup> s for D-D and 10<sup>20</sup>
m<sup>-3</sup>s for D-T). This time must be shorter than the time for the
instability to occur [1.1]. In earlier experiments [1.2.1.3], the z-pinch
(shown in figure 1.1) was found to become unstable before the compression and
terminated prematurely. Because of this, the z-pinch was considered to be
impractical. However, in recent years there has been a renewed interest in
z-pinches due to the availability of high impedance generators based on pulse
forming lines [1.4] which have an added advantage of being able to deliver a
very fast rising current pulse (the high internal impedance insures that there
is the pinch current sustained even in the presence of large pinch dynamics).
Theoretical work suggests that high densities may be achieved using hydrogen
and deuterium fibres in DZP machines [1.5]. The experiments using deuterium and
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
hydrogen fibres require a sophisticated cryogenic system for the extrusion of
the fibre between the electrodes. Experiments have been done at NRL [1.6] and
at Los Alamos <p>
[1.7,1.8] but these have been discontinued. A new experiment [1.9] -Mega Ampere
Generator Plasma Implosion Experiments - (MAGPIE) using deuterium fibres is
about to start at Imperial College. <p>
<p>
		In the work reported here, most of the observations are with 7 um carbon
fibres, which have an ion line density (4.6 x 10<sup>18</sup> m<sup>-1</sup>)
equal to that of 100 um deuterium. Larger diameter carbon fibres were also
studied and so were aluminium fibres. A characteristic feature of the fibre
pinches is the appearance of the bright spots - small local concentrated
regions of the plasma distributed along the axis which emit intense optical and
x-ray radiation.<p>
<p>
	Bright spots have been observed in a variety of z-pinch configurations such as
the vacuum spark [1.10,1.11], the plasma focus [1.12,1.13], the gas puff pinch
[1.14,1.15] and the fibre pinch [1.16-1.18]. They are referred as bright spots
[1.17], hot spots [1.12], micropinches [1.18] and beads [1.7] in the
literature. Z-pinches in general and bright spots in particular have potential
applications for x-ray lithography [1.19-1.21], backlighting [1.22],
spectroscopy of highly ionised z materials [1.23-1.25] and soft x-ray lasers
[1.26,1.27].<p>
<p>
<b>1.2	Pinch Effect</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	In an axial discharge, the self induced azimuthal  magnetic field
interacts with the current and the <b>J</b> x <b>B</b> force compresses the
plasma towards the axis (see figure 1.1). This effect is known as the pinch
effect . The necessary conditions for the plasma to pinch is that <b>J</b> x
<b>B</b> force should exceed the force due to the plasma pressure (Pe + Pi).
The plasma is in quasi-equilibrium when the magnetic pressure equals the plasma
pressure i.e., 
<IMG SRC="chapter11.gif">
 <p>
<p>
	Bennett [1.28] solved this pressure balance to give,<p>
<p>
		
<IMG SRC="chapter12.gif">
		(1.1)<p>
<p>
where I is the current through the plasma column, Ti,e is the ion, electron
temperature averaged over the cross section of the pinch, Ni,e is the ion,
electron line density defined as 
<IMG SRC="chapter13.gif">.
According to Eq.1.1, a plasma with a given line density is maintained at a
temperature by passing the appropriate current through the pinched plasma. <p>
<p>
	 In the present experiment, the maximum available current is 100 kA and a 7 um
carbon fibre has an ion line density 4.6 x 10<sup>18</sup> m<sup>-1</sup>. This
gives an average electron and ion temperature of about 100 eV for fully ionised
(Z=6) plasma. In the MAGPIE experiment, which is capable of generating 1.4 MA,
Te, Ti =20 keV. The corresponding temperature with the MA generator which
operates at 1.4 MA is 5 keV for 100 um deuterium fibre.<p>
<p>
<b>1.3  Radial Equilibrium</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>1.3.1	Pease Braginskii Current</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	In the absence of axial losses, the power lost by radiation from the plasma is
balanced by the power gain due to the ohmic heating. <p>
<p>
	The radiation loss rate per unit length of the plasma column at temperature
kTe is<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter14.gif">
Wm<sup>-1</sup>		(1.2)<p>
<p>
where N is the line density, Te is the electron temperature and a is the radius
of the pinch.<p>
<p>
	The ohmic heating power per unit length,<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter15.gif">
Wm<sup>-1</sup>						(1.3)<p>
<p>
where I is the current through the pinch, [[eta]] is the Spitzer resistivity
given by 
<IMG SRC="chapter16.gif">
.<p>
 <p>
	Equating Pr , P[[Omega]] and using Bennett relation,<p>
<p>
		
<IMG SRC="chapter17.gif">
 MA			(1.4)<p>
<p>
This is known as the Pease-Braginskii current [1.29,1.30] and its values for
the various materials are given in table 1.1.  <p>
<p>
Table 1.1<p>
Pease-Braginskii current for different Z materials.<p>


<pre>
                                                       IPB         IPB      
                    Z             ln[[Lambda]]  (MA)          (ln[[Lambda]  
                                                              ]=10)         
                                                              ([[Mu]][[Alp  
                                                              ha]])         
Deuterium (100 um)          1           6.4           1.095         1.37    
Carbon (7 um)               6           2.45          0.395         0.8     
Aluminium (25 um)          13           2.37          0.358         0.738   
Neon (100 um)              18           2.22          0.340         0.723   

</pre>
*
ln[[Lambda]] is calculated on the basis of the initial line density and Te &gt;
50 eV. <p>
<p>
<b>1.3.2	Haines Hammel Current Waveform</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	In a z-pinch, plasma heating and confinement is determined by the pinch
current. If the current rises too slowly, the pinch heats up faster than the
rising magnetic field and the plasma column expands. If current rises too fast,
then the heating rate is slow compared to the magnetic field build up and the
plasma column contracts. There is a particular current waveform for which the
plasma is maintained in radial equilibrium called the Haines-Hammel waveform
[1.31,1.32 ], <p>
<p>
	The waveform is obtained by considering the energy equation<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter18.gif">
	(1.5)<p>
<p>
here [[eta]]J<sup>2</sup> is the joule heating, where J is the current density,
Pcond is the heat power per unit volume conducted axially away from the pinch
and Prad is the Bremsstrahlung power per unit volume radiated away from the
pinch. Where<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter19.gif">
Wm<sup>-3</sup>			(1.6)<p>
<p>
where [[xi]][[Eta]] is the ionisation potential of hydrogen.<p>
<p>
	 The axial heat loss <p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter110.gif">
Wm<sup>-3</sup>					(1.7)<p>
<p>
where ve is the electron drift velocity equal to J/nee and l is the length of
the pinch.<p>
<p>
	A steady state solution of Eq.1.5 with axial and radial losses is obtained by
Haines [1.33] <p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter111.gif">
		(1.8)<p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>for the temperature Tm (eV) of the pinch of radius a and length l
carring current I. To obtain this equilibrium, the current waveform must follow
the Haines - Hammel curve. The initial rate of rise of the current is obtained
by neglecting the losses in Eq. 1.5 and integrating over the cross-section of
the pinch [1.5],<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter112.gif">
					(1.9)<p>
<p>
	For deuterium fibre, N=5.6 x 10<sup>18</sup> ions m<sup>-1</sup>, a=20.1 um,
and T=10<sup>8</sup> K (8.6 keV), dI/dt is of the order of 3 x 10<sup>12</sup>
A/sec. Such a rate of rise of current is quite feasible using the modern pulsed
power technology. <p>
<p>
<b>1.3.3	Radiative Collapse</b><p>
	<p>
	The external work PdV per unit length on the plasma is<p>
	<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter113.gif">
					(1.10)<p>
<p>
In equilibrium neglecting conduction losses<p>
	Pw = P[[Omega]]-Pr							(1.11)<p>
<p>
We get [1.34]<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter114.gif">
					(1.12)<p>
<p>
Rewriting Eq. 1.12 in terms of IPB gives<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter115.gif">
				(1.13)<p>
<p>
where the radiation time constant  
<IMG SRC="chapter116.gif">
		(1.14)<p>
Equation 1.13 shows that if I &lt; IPB, the pinch expands and for I &gt; IPB,
the pinch contracts and leads to a well known phenomena of radiative collapse
[1.34].<p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>1.4	Magnetohydrodynamic Instabilities</b><p>
<p>
	To achieve thermonuclear fusion in a z-pinch, the plasma column must be stable
during the confinement time. Plasma described by MHD equations admits a number
of gross instabilities. Especially, a cylindrical plasma confined by a magnetic
field produced by a current at the surface of the pinch plasma would develop
radial perturbations dr which are of the form [1.35,1.36],<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter117.gif"><p>
<p>
where [[xi]]0 is the amplitude of the displacement and k is the wavenumber. The
coefficient m=0 is the mode number and determines the azimuthal periodicity of
dr. When m=0, the perturbations are independent of azimuthul coordinate. The
instability takes the form as shown in figure 1.2(a), where the magnetic
pressure in the contracted regions is greater than that in the neighbouring
regions. When m=1, the pinch is perturbed helicaly and this instability is
shown in figure 1.2(b). Here the field strength on the outside of the bend is
less than that on the inside of the bend. <p>
<p>
	The m=0 instability growth rate is,<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter118.gif">
						(1.15)<p>
<p>
where a is the radius of the column, f is a constant taken equal to 1 and va is
Alfven velocity given by, <p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter119.gif"><p>
<p>
where 
<IMG SRC="chapter120.gif">
, a is the radius of the pinch and [[rho]] is the mass density.<p>
<p>
	 The number of ideal MHD times that have elapsed when instability first
appears at time [[tau]], may be written as,<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter121.gif">
					(1.16)<p>
<p>
	Substituting for va in Eq. 1.16, gives<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter122.gif">
				(1.17)<p>
<p>
For a flat density profile 
<IMG SRC="chapter123.gif">,
where [[rho]]0 = 2200 kgm<sup>-3</sup> and [[rho]]0 = 2700 kgm<sup>-3</sup> are
the initial densities for carbon  and aluminium respectively. The number of MHD
growth times elapsed at 10 ns for various fibres are shown in table 1.2.<p>
<p>
Table 1.2<p>
Number of MHD growth times for m=0 instability<p>


<pre>
                             Number of MHD    
                          growth times        
                          elapsed for m=0     
                          instability         
7 um carbon fibre                      0.67   
33 um carbon fibre                     0.37   
25 um aluminium fibre                  0.44   
100 um deuterium fibre                 0.68   

</pre>
<p>
	The m=1 instability is a common feature of gas embedded pinches and is not
normally observed in fibre z-pinches. <p>
<p>
	Rayleigh Taylor instability occurs when a heavy fluid is supported by a light
fluid in the presence of gravitational field. In the z-pinch configuration, the
magnetic field confining the plasma represents the light fluid supporting the
heavy fluid. Contrary to m=0 &amp; m=1 instabilities, the Rayleigh Taylor
instability occurs only when plasma is accelerating or decelerating. Taylor
[1.36] included the effect of viscosity in his calculations and it was found
that viscosity tends to damp the higher wavenumber modes resulting in the
growth of certain wavenumbers. <p>
<p>
	 Curzon et al. [1.37] gives the growth rate for the fastest growing mode as<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter124.gif">
					(1.18)<p>
<p>
where [[gamma]] is the maximum growth rate, k (= 2[[pi]]/[[lambda]]) the wave
number of the instability with maximum growth rate, [[lambda]] the wavelength,
g the acceleration, u the viscosity and [[rho]] the mass density. <p>
<p>
	Kadomtsev [1.38] derived important stability criteria for m=0 and m=1 in the
z-pinch. The pinch is stable to m=0 mode if and only if the pressure profile
satisfies the inequality ,<p>
<p>
	
<IMG SRC="chapter125.gif">
		(1.19)<p>
<p>
<p>
everywhere, i.e., for all r. In this equation P0(r) is the pressure profile,
B0(r) is the magnetic field, 
<IMG SRC="chapter126.gif">
and [[Gamma]] is the ratio of the specific heats. The pressure at the edge of a
pinch in vacuum falls to zero. Hence, the pinch will always be unstable to m=0
instability<p>
<p>
	For m &gt;= 1, the pinch must satisfy the following criterion everywhere,<p>
<p>
	 
<IMG SRC="chapter127.gif"><p>
<p>
Hence, a pinch with finite current density on the axis will always be m=1
unstable.<p>
<p>
<b>1.5  Regimes of Z-pinch</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	The ideal MHD theory is based on a number of simplifying assumptions where the
resistivity, viscosity, Hall effect, thermal conduction, the ion Larmor radius
and the electron pressure are neglected. The ion temperature is taken equal to
that of the electrons.<p>
<p>
	Haines and Coppins [1.39] have defined different regimes for the z-pinch in a
plot of  I<sup>4</sup> a, the product of fourth power of the current and the
pinch radius against the ion line density N. The pinch is assumed to satisfy
the Bennett relation. This diagram is shown in figure 1.3. Ideal MHD stability
occupies a small wedged shape region and is bounded by regions where resistive,
viscous and finite ion Larmor radius effects are important. Also marked in this
plot are the various experiments of particular interest. The compressional
pinch experiment reported by Bayley et al. [1.40] is shown to be stable
although the experiment was in the regime of finite Larmor radius i.e.,
ai/a=0.1. The point marked S in the plot refers to the Soto experiment [1.41]
and falls in resistive stable regime. <p>
<b></b><p>
<b>1.6  Pulsed Power Technology</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	Early z-pinch experiments [1.2,1.3] were carried out using a capacitor bank
with a current rise time of ~ 1 us or more. The capacitor banks were discharged
into the load via spark gaps. The large inductance of the bank, the switch and
the pinch  limits the rate of current rise 
<IMG SRC="chapter128.gif">.
Thus allowing instabilities to grow during the pinch formation. The rapid
increase in pinch inductance at maximum compression  also severely limits the
current through the plasma. <p>
<p>
	These problems are not so severe by the introduction of the high voltage, high
impedance pulse power generators [1.4]. These power sources can operate at
10<sup>7</sup> volt  <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
level and can have impedance of as low as 1 [[Omega]]. Hence they can deliver
&gt;=10<sup>13</sup> Watts, the rise time 
<IMG SRC="chapter129.gif">
As<sup>-1</sup> attaining an inductance ~ 100 nH. Typically, a high impedance
pulse power generator consists of a pulse forming line, a switch and a transfer
section as described in section 2.1. A Marx capacitor bank pulse charges the
pulse forming line and it  is then discharged through a self breaking switch
and a matched transfer section to the pinch. The transfer section is used to
isolate the pulse forming line from the pinch. Choi [1.42] has observed that
the addition of a transfer section to the pulse forming line can enhance the
rate of rise of the current.<p>
<p>
<b>1.7  Characteristics of Bright Spots</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>	A bright spot is a small localised dense plasma region which emits
intense optical and x-ray radiation. It is a characteristic feature of most
pinch configurations. Bright spots were first observed by Cohen et al [1.43] in
1968 in a vacuum spark. Since then they have been observed in vacuum spark
[1.10,1.11], plasma focus [1.12,1.13], gas puff z-pinch [1.14,1.15], X-pinch
[1.44,1.45] and fibre z-pinches [1.16-1.18]. In the literature, these bright
spots are given different names such as micropinches, hot spots, constriction,
beads and  local constriction etc.<p>
<p>
	Figura et al. [1.46] reported both radial expansion and axial motion of the
bright spots while studying a quartz fibre pinch. The axial motion was in
either direction. An electron beam associated with the plasma was also
reported. Niffikeer et al. [1.47] using the same current generator and using 7
um carbon fibres reported that the plasma becomes unstable in the early stages
of the current pulse. The temperature of the bright spots was observed to be
lower than that of the adjacent plasma column. <p>
<p>
	The main characteristics of the bright spots observed in several pinch
experiments are:<p>
<p>
	diameter			10 - 400 um <p>
<p>
	electron density 		10<sup>25</sup> - 10<sup>29</sup>  m<sup>-3</sup> <p>
<p>
	temperature ranging 		100 eV - 5 keV<p>
<p>
	radial expansion velocity      ~ 10<sup>4</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup><p>
<p>
	axial velocity 		         ~ 3 x 10<sup>5</sup> ms<sup>-1</sup> <p>
<p>
	life time in x-ray regime       &lt; 1 ns	<p>
<p>
	spots occur at random positions along the axis at different times<p>
<p>
	In fibre pinch experiments, the number of bright spots decreases with an
increase in the diameter of the fibre. In a plasma focus, the bright  spots
appear more readily with the addition of high Z impurities in hydrogen and
deuterium gas [1.48]. But, bright spots  are observed in pure deuterium fibre
pinches without the addition of impurities [ 1.6-1.8]. In vacuum spark, they
appear near the anode and their characteristics depend very much on the anode
material [1.49]. Most of the above bright spot characteristics are independent
of the z-pinch configuration. <p>
<p>
<b>1.8	Layout of this Thesis</b><p>
<b></b><p>
	The thesis is organised as follows:- <p>
<p>
Chapter 2 describes the details of the current generator and the diagnostics
used to observe the pinch dynamics and the electron beams,<p>
<p>
Chapter 3 describes the observations made on the fibre z-pinch. The first
section of this chapter deals with the electrical measurements and compares in
particular the results for the two different switches used. The second section
describes the observations made using optical diagnostics. The results from the
x-ray diagnostics are presented in the third section. This section also
describes the simultaneous observations made using the optical and the x-ray
diagnostics. The plasma temperature and the electron beam results are presented
in the final section.<p>
<p>
Chapter 4 contains a discussion of the results and compares with theory. The
discussion is arranged in five parts corresponding to the five regimes of the
pinch evolution as:-<p>
<p>
i)	breakdown <p>
ii) 	radial expansion <p>
iii) 	instability growth <p>
iv) 	density islands and  <p>
v) 	plasma pumpout <p>
<p>
Chapter 5 contains the summary of the results and interpretations, the
comparison with other experiments, the conclusions and the suggested future
work.  <p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<p>
<b>Correction made on July 15 </b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>REFERENCES</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b>Chapter 1</b><p>
<b></b><p>
<b></b>[1.1]	J. D. Lawson, Proc. Phys. Soc.<b> B70</b>, 6 (1957).<p>
[1.2]	A. B. Bodin, Nucl. Fusion <b>1</b>, 54 (1960).<p>
[1.3]	O. A. Anderson, W. R. Baker, S. A. Colgate, H. P. Furth, J. Ise, R. V.
Pyle 	and R. E. Wright, Phys. Rev. <b>109</b>, 612 (1958).<p>
[1.4]	J. C. Martin, ' Nanosecond pulse technique', Aldermaston Internal report,
SSWA, JCM/704/49.<p>
[1.5]	M. G. Haines, J. Phys. D.: Appl. Phys. <b>11</b>, 1709 (1978).<p>
[1.6]	J. E. Hammel and D. W. Scudder, Proceedings of the 14th European
Conference 	on Controlled Fusion and Plasma Physics (EPS, Petit-Lancy),
Switzerland, pt.2, 	p. 450 (1987).<p>
[1.7]	J. D. Sethian, A. E. Robson, K. A. Gerber and A. W. DeSilva, Phys. Rev.
Lett. <b>59</b>, 892 (1987).<p>
[1.8]	J. D. Sethian, A. E. Robson, K. A. Gerber and A. W. DeSilva, Proceedings
of 	Alternative Magnetic Confinement Schemes edited by S. Orlanlani and E.
Sindoni, Varena, Italy (1990).<p>
[1.9]	I. H. Mitchell, J. M. Baylley, J. P. Chittenden, P. Choi, J. F. Worely,
A. E. 	Dangor, and M. G. Haines, Proceeding of Third In ternational Conference
on 	High Density Z-pinch <b>299</b> (edited by M. G. Haines and A Knight), 486
(1993).<p>
[1.10]	C. R. Negus and N. J. Peacock, J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. <b>12</b>, 91
(1979).<p>
[1.11]	E. D. Korop, B. E. Meierovich, Yu., V. Sidelnikov and S. T. Sukhorukov,
Sov. 	Phys. Usp. <b>22</b>, 727 (1979).<p>
[1.12]	K. N. Koshelev, V. I. Krauz, N. G. Reshetniak, R. G. Salukvadze, Yu V.
Sidelnikov and E. Yu Khautiev, J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. <b>21</b>, 1827
(1988).<p>
[1.13]	J. M. Bayley, G. Decker, W. Kies, M. Malzig, F. Muller, P. Rowekamp, J.
Westheide and Y. V. Sidelnikov, J. Appl. Phys. <b>69</b>, 613 (1991).<p>
[1.14]	P. Choi, A. E. Dangor, C. Deeney, and C. D. Challis, Rev, Sci. Instrum.
<b>57</b>, 	2162 (1986).<p>
[1.15]	R. B. Spielman, D. L. Hanson, M. A. Palmer, M. K. Matzen, T. W. hussey,
and J. M. Peek, J. Appl. Phys. <b>57</b>, 830 (1985).<p>
[1.16]	S. M. Zakharov, G. V. Ivanenkov, A. A. Kolomenskii, S. A. Pikuz and A.
I. 	Samokhin, Sov. J. Plasma Phys. <b>9</b>, 27 (1983).<p>
[1.17]	S. L. Niffikeer, Ph. D. Thesis, University of London (1991). <p>
[1.18]	W. Kies, G. Decker, M. Malzig, C. van Calker, J. Westheide, G. Ziethen,
H. 	Bachmann, K. Baumung, H. Bluhm, D. Rusch, W. Rarajczak, O. Stoltz and J.
M. Bayley, J. Appl. Phys. <b>70</b>, 7261 (1991).<p>
[1.19]	J. S. Pearlman and J. C. Riodan, J. Vac. Sci. Tech., <b>19</b>, 1190
(1981).	<p>
[1.20]	J. S. Pearlman et al., Proc. SPIE <b>537</b>, 102 (1985).<p>
[1.21]	J. S. Pearlman, J. C. Riordan and A. C. Kolb, Radiat. Phys. Chem.
<b>25</b>, 709 	(1985).	<p>
[1.22]	D. Kalankatar and D. A. Hammer, Phys. Rev. Lett. <b>71</b>, 3806
(1993).<p>
[1.23]	A. R. Striganov, Sov. Phys. Usp. <b>26</b>, 373 (1983).	<p>
[1.24]	P. G. Burkhalter, C. M. Dozier, C. Stallings and R. D. Cowan, J. Appl.
Phys. 	<b>49</b>, 1092 (1978).<p>
[1.25]	C. M. Dozier, P. G. Burkhalter, D. J. Nagel, S. J. Stephanakis and D.
Mosher, 	J. Phys. <b>B10</b>, L73 (1977).<p>
[1.26]	J. J. Rocca, Phys. Rev. E <b>47</b>, 1299 (1993).<p>
[1.27]	J. J. Rocca et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. <b>73</b>, 2192 (1994).<p>
[1.28]	W. H. Bennett, Phys. Rev. <b>45</b>, 890 (1934).<p>
[1.29]	R. S. Pease , Proc. Phys. Soc. <b>B70</b>, 11 (1957).<p>
[1.30]	S. I. Braginskii, Sov. Phys. JETP <b>6</b>, 494 (1958).<p>
[1.31]	M. G. Haines, Proc. Phys. Soc. <b>76</b>, 250 (1960).<p>
[1.32]	J. E. Hammel, D. W. Scudder and J. S. Schlachter, Nucl. Instr. and Mth.
<b>207</b> 	(1983).<p>
[1.33]	M. G. Haines, Proc. Phys. Soc. <b>77</b>, 643 (1961).<p>
[1.34]	J. W. Shearer, Phys. Fluids <b>19</b>, 1426 (1976).<p>
[1.35]	M. Kruskal and M. Schwarzchild, Proc. Roy. Soc. <b>A223</b>, 348
(1954).<p>
[1.36]	R. J. Taylor, Proc. Phys. Soc. <b>B70</b>, 31 (1957).<p>
[1.37]	F. L. Curzon, A. Folkierski, R. Latham and J. A. Nation, Proc. Roy. Soc.
<b>257</b>, 	386 (1960).	<p>
[1.38]	B. B. Kadomtsev, 'Reviews of Plasma Physics (edited by M. A.
Leontovich),<b> 	2</b>, p. 153, Consultant Bureau, New York (1966).	<p>
[1.39]	M. G. Haines and M. Coppins, Phys. Rev. Lett. <b>66</b>, 1462 (1991).<p>
[1.40]	J. M. Bayley, Ph. D. Thesis, University of London (1990).<p>
[1.41]	L. Soto, H. Chuaqui, M. Favre and E. Wyndham, Phys. Rev. Lett.
<b>72</b>, 2891 	(1994).<p>
[1.42]	P. Choi, Ph. D. thesis, University of London (1982).<p>
[1.43]	L. Cohen, U. Feldman, M. Swartz and J. Underwood, J. Opt. Soc. America
<b>58</b>, 	843 (1968).<p>
[1.44]	D. H. Kalantar, D. A. Hammer, A. E. Dangor, J. M. Bayley and F. N. Beg,
Proceedings of third International Conference on dense Z-pinches, <b>299</b>,
edited by 	M. G. Haines and A. Knight, 604 (1993).<p>
<p>
[1.45]	C. Christou, Proceedings of third International Conference on dense
Z-pinches 	<b>299</b>, edited by M. G. Haines and A. Knight, 191 (1993).<p>
[1.46]	E. S. Figura, G. H. McCall and A. E. Dangor <b>B3</b>, 2853 (1991).<p>
[1.47]	S. L. Niffikeer, F. N. Beg, A. E. Dangor, M. G. Haines and G. H. McCall,
Proceedings of third International Conference on dense Z-pinch <b>299</b>,
edited by 	M. G. Haines and A. Knight, 495 (1993).<p>
[1.48]	R. Aliaga, Ph.D. Thesis, University of London (1992).<p>
[1.49]	K. N. Koshelev and N. R. Pereira, J. Appl. Phys. <b>69</b>, R21 (1991).
<p>
<p>
<p>
</body></html>
--------------6B1B59BC3A5B--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 22:35:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA14265; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:12:28 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:12:28 -0800
Message-ID: <33211102.5A3E microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 16:40:58 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hschulze collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: External Flux Density with Opposing Magnets
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"lE6_T3.0.VU3.BDG8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4813
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All,

Several readers have asked me for info on the effects of pushing
two opposing magnets closer together.  I have produced a series of
Gifs which show the effect.  There is a flux contour series where
the scaling contours (colours) have been locked to show the flux
contour changes better and a XY graph series where the actual
flux density through the centre of the air gap between the magnets
can be studied.

The series starts at 100mm gap and reduces to 0.5mm.  The
files are labeled as such :

  sn100nsb.gif  (flux contour with 100mm gap)
  sn100nsg.gif  (xy plot of flux density with 100mm gap)

down to
 
  sn0.5nsb.gif (flux contour with 0.5mm gap)
  sn0.5nsg.gif (xy plot of flux density with 0.5mm gap)

The zipped up Gifs have been sent to the DNMEC Gif list.

Enjoy.  As always, comments are welcome.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar  7 23:56:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA13938; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:27:49 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:27:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33212226.603D microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 17:54:06 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hschulze collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC Generator Version 4
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------44C779A55745"
Resent-Message-ID: <"bhPqm1.0.fP3.nJH8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4814
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------44C779A55745
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greg East wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> The above is PLENTY to get excited about!  Please indulge me here.  I
> did not follow your last 'keyboard' drawing.  I pride myself on being a
> good designer...I used to design gas turbine engines and systems...so I
> should be able to decifer any drawing.  Where is the rotational axis in
> this drawing?  If you have a better rendering of it, I would appreciate
> seeing it.

Have attached a hand drawn Gif.

> The multi-stage concept you propose is extraordinarily logical.  This is
> a better approach than just building a big 'something' that's supposed
> to go overunity.  I can't make such a leap of faith.  Your approach is a
> good way to maintain a high quality developmental program.

I believe the approach taken by all other flux gate builders failed
because
they tried to get max flux change to occur in the coil by allowing the
flux gate to fully enter the air gap and they used a buried MMF source
approach.  As I have shown, this, in my opinion, can't work.

In my design, each stator will only be able to produce a small amount of
power due to the fact that the flux gate never enters the gap and hence
flux changes in the coil are small.

> Again, exactly how is power extracted from the device of your proposal.

Power is available as electrical and rotary torque.  For the device to
self
power, it will need an electrical load large enough to overcome its 
frictional losses.  This may seem strange, but OU devices will work in
reverse.
The more electrical load on the output coils, the more the flux gate is
attracted into the gap and the less the rotating flux gates will need
rotary
torque from the driving motor.  With a good design, the attractive
forces can be made large enough to overcome the frictional losses.  If
the
frictional losses can be made small, then most of the power can be taken
as electrical energy, or by shorting the output coil as torque or both.
Much design work would need to be done on the necessary control systems.

> Also, how will the effect be 'fed' from one stage to the next so that it
> accumulates to provide a useful output level?  Pardon me if I sound like
> I'm prying, but this is very exciting.

Nothing is fed from stage to stage.  Many stators are needed as they can
each
only produce a small OU effect due to the small flux change.  Adding
stators
doesn't increase frictional losses, but does increase the DNMEC effect
on the
rotation drive shart.

> I received a post from Stefan Hartmann last week stating that he was
> building a 'next' generation of OU device based on a modified form of
> one of Badini's Flux Gate Generators.  Is this the same as what you are
> doing?  He said that when he finishes he will post both the test results
> and the plans for all to see and build from.  I haven't heard much more
> from him lately though.

I haven't heard from Stephan either.  He knows of my work in detail.  I
have
posted many helpfull hints to him.

> Hope to hear from you soon.  Best regards,
> 
> Greg East

Hi Greg,

Hope the above helps.  I enjoy your feedback.

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au

--------------44C779A55745
Content-Type: image/gif; name="genver4.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="genver4.gif"
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--------------44C779A55745--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 02:57:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA04156; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:28:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:28:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 20:27:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970307202739_1881059552 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"AsvbH1.0.q01.v2C8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4801
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Barry asks:
<<Suppose I have a conducting body, like a solid metal sphere.
It has rejected all the fluctuating normal modes of the vacuum
EM field from its interior, yet it is bombarded by them at
its surface. Thus, it experiences a radiation pressure. This pressure 
must be enormous (well, infinite) 
<snip>
<So, why are not all conducting objects instantly crushed 
by the enormous radiation pressure from the fluctuation field? 
>>

It hasn't rejected all possible ZPE modes, only those up to the freq where
the ball is no longer conducting (e.g., UV or so).  Since most of the energy
is at the higher frequencies (ZPE goes as freq^3) most of the ZPE is still
there.  If you calculate the radiation pressure asociated with the ZPE truly
interacting with the surface, it's not so much.  

Hal Puthoff


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 07:06:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA14555; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 06:52:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 06:52:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:51:58 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970308095158_1482762665 emout14.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: RIFEX & XSH
Resent-Message-ID: <"MBsYB2.0.LZ3.fqN8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4815
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott,

The following message bounced back from vortex-L eskimo.com, so here's
another try:

A few days ago, in your response to Russ George's guess that you hadn't seen
a hint of heat from CETI's Rifex kit, you said, "not yet...but then they have
repeatedly told me that's exactly what I should expect from the Rifex kit."

Say what?  The people at CETI have told you that the RIFEX cell doesn't
produce any XSH?  Ever?

Transmutations but no XSH?

Do you happen to know what the connection is between the RIFEX cell and the
cell that Cravens and Patterson showed at the CETI booth at the meeting of
the American Nuclear Society in Washington, D.C., last November?

The cell at the ANS meeting was said to produce 5 W of heat out from 1.5 W of
current in.  Is CETI saying that this information wasn't right, or that the
demo cell in D.C. wasn't the same as the RIFEX cell?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 07:54:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA30978; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 07:42:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 07:42:21 -0800
Message-ID: <332188C6.3373 interlaced.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 10:41:58 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <v01530504af468dfa84d3 [199.237.131.221]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"QIPDq2.0.yZ7.SZO8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4816
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace Heffner wrote:
>
(snip) 
  What kinds of things can be done with
> such high frequency photons?  Can they be reflected or refracted? Is there
> a means for elastic vs inelastic collision?  There must be *some* property
> that is useful for engineering, other than using the Casimir force for
> welding.
> 

Yes, I am obviously confused about the nature of the ZPE photons!
Is it correct that they do not exist long enough to interact with
"normal" matter?  If this is TRUE, then how do they exert pressure?
If it is FALSE, then we must have zero-point pairs being formed all the
time, right?  If pairs are formed all the time, but don't have time to
interact, then how do they manage to annihilate with each other?
Because they are so close?  An old ME is easily confused!

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 09:28:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA08076; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:11:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:11:31 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:10:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970308121046_1051671042 emout19.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: vacuum energy
Resent-Message-ID: <"n-UZU2.0.2-1.2tP8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4818
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Berry Merryman writes:
..............................................................................
...........................................
In any case, this problem is worth thinking about, if
for no other reason to see what assumptions the energy cost
of swithing depends on, and whether it is a necessary consequence
of the theories thought to govern the casimir force (QED, or
in more limited cases, SED), just as the locality of charge
..............................................................................
.........................................
Anything that is not forbade by the conservation laws can happen.  The
Universe came into being and we must assume that the conservation laws were
in place from the beginning.  Energy springs from the vacuum according to
Heisenburg.

delta E X delta t = h

This energy does not last long..It is not real energy..something is missing.
 What is missing?  GRAVITATIONAL MASS!!!  If zero point energy had
gravitational mass the value of Hubble's constant would be so high that the
Universe would have be crushed out of existance in a fleating instant.
 Discover did an article on this years ago...I now cannot find the issue..It
had an american flag and a stop sign on the cover...

The Heiserberg uncertantanty priciple is like a partial derivative, certain
thing are held constant.  What things?  h!!!!   h can be expressed in units
of angular momentum.
Add angular momentum to a system and the the constant of the relationship is
GONE!!  Virtual energy is made real.  A spin 2 graviton is emittted. Postivie
energy follows the production of the negative energy.  How to add angular
momentum?  With a phonon.  Where do you find this phonon?  In a charge
cluster or superconductor.

I seems so clear to me.

Frank Z

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 09:59:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA04339; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 08:54:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 08:54:44 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 11:54:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970308115401_1216624752 emout12.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: force and gravity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"-H0mU3.0.j31.JdP8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4817
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Litttle Writes:

 Have you seen, for example, his paper which
demonstrates that the ground state of the electron in the H atom is simply
that orbit in which the power radiated by the electron as it continually
accelerates around the nucleus equals the power it absorbs from the ZPF?.
..............................................................................
..........................................
Radiation and adsorbtion..What is produced??  A FORCE!!!
What shares a symmetrical relationship with gravity???   A FORCE!!!!
My model is an inside out version of Puthoff's.  Energy is reflected back
into the matter.  This produces a force (dp/dt)

gravity = G/ccr (dp/dt)

Put the forces in the right place and wha-la out comes Newton's foumula of
gravity.  The 1/rr field of gravity can be shown to be the superposition of
two 1/r fields produced by force at the potential wall of matter.  Ref
Electromagnum "The Source of Grav and Inertial Mass" one typeO with +- sign
did not text.

1¾

Frank Znidarsic                 fznidarsic aol.com
481 Boyer St.                   http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html
Johnstown, Pa.   15906


Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:fznidarsic aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>


Paper can be picked up with from link on my home page.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 10:22:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA15442; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 10:00:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 10:00:36 -0800
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:59:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970308125951_1350182594 emout01.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: RIFEX & XSH
Resent-Message-ID: <"EAJP-1.0.9n3.2bQ8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4819
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a message dated 97-03-08 10:01:44 EST, Tom Sloper wrote,

<< 
 The cell at the ANS meeting was said to produce 5 W of heat out from 1.5 W
of
 current in.  Is CETI saying that this information wasn't right, or that the
 demo cell in D.C. wasn't the same as the RIFEX cell?
  >>

I visited the CETI booth at the ANS meeting. The active, heat-producing cell
was in a corner at the back of the booth. I was told that its interesting
feature was that it used beads with a ceramic core, which presumeably could
be operated at temperatures well above 100C. The RIFEX cell was up front.
Both can be seen in the pictures I took, which are on the front cover of IE
#10. 

IMHO there is too much effort here on Vortex to connect the scattered
observation-dots with lines to make whatever picture the commentator wants to
see. Yes, we would all like a more complete picture and guessing is fun, but
let's not confuse this with what is "really" going on, which we don't know.
Few of us have paid the price of admission to the real show. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 12:30:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA21850; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:16:34 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:16:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3321C940.2888 interlaced.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 15:17:04 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: vacuum energy
References: <970308121046_1051671042 emout19.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ccedo2.0.KL5.WaS8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4820
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:
>
(snip) 
 Energy springs from the vacuum according to
> Heisenburg.
> 
> delta E X delta t = h
> 
> This energy does not last long..It is not real energy..something is missing.
>  What is missing?  GRAVITATIONAL MASS!!!

OK, Frank, does this mean that the equivalence principle only appears
for 
	delta t > h/delta E   ?  In other words, how long does it take
for mass and/or gravity to associate with energy?  Is this a problem
with relativity on a quantum scale?  (Hey, get a job - you're too young
for me to let you into the retirement club yet!)

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 14:34:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA10540; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 14:20:38 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 14:20:38 -0800
Message-ID: <3321F3F0.2C88 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 08:49:12 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hschulze collison.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com,
        neotech xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Interesting OU? Patents
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"k-FLB2.0.ba2.rOU8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4821
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi All,

Here is a collection of interesting patents, all of which claim to
show OU effects.  They can be downloaded from the IBM patent server :

http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/

4,151,431  Johnson    Permanent magnet motor. (No graphics)
4,215,330  Hartman    Permanent magnet propulsion system (Tomi like).
4,877,983  Johnson    Magnetic force generation method & apparatus.
5,191,258  German     Electric current generator including torque
                       reducing countermagnetic field.
5,402,021  Johnson    Magnetic propulsion system.
5,436,518  Kawai      Motive power generating device

Do you know of any more I can add to the list?

-- 
Best Regards,
Greg Watson, 
Greg Watson Consulting,
Adelaide, South Australia, 
gwatson microtronics.com.au

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 16:18:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA17939; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 15:57:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 15:57:49 -0800
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 15:57:39 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Interesting OU? Patents (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970308155632.4301B-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"J0g7o3.0.9O4.xpV8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4822
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, Greg Watson wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Here is a collection of interesting patents, all of which claim to
> show OU effects.  They can be downloaded from the IBM patent server :
> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com

Hey, I just tried using the IBM server by snipping their internal URL and
putting it on a web page, and it works!  Greg, hope you don't mind, but I
stole your above list and put it on http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/fnrg.html,
with direct links to the IBM patent server as below:

<h3>Unusual Patents, via <a href="http://patent.womplex.ibm.com">IBM Patent Server</a></h3>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4%2C151%2C431">4,151,431</a>  Johnson    Permanent magnet motor. (No graphics)
<li><a href="http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4%2C215%2C330">4,215,330</a>  Hartman    Permanent magnet propulsion system (Tomi like).
<li><a href="http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4%2C877%2C983">4,877,983</a>  Johnson    Magnetic force generation method & apparatus.
<li><a href="http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5%2C191%2C258">5,191,258</a>  German     Electric current generator including torque
                                reducing countermagnetic field.
<li><a href="http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5%2C021%2C402">5,402,021</a>  Johnson    Magnetic propulsion system.
<li><a href="http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5%2C436%2C518">5,436,518</a>  Kawai      Motive power generating device
</ul>

Click on a patent number, and you go directly to that patent.

.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 16:41:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA11772; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 16:28:21 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 16:28:21 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33221098.1F35 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 10:51:28 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Interesting OU? Patents (fwd)
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970308155632.4301B-100000 eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"8kM3I.0.qt2.XGW8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4823
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

William Beaty wrote:
> 
> Hey, I just tried using the IBM server by snipping their internal URL and
> putting it on a web page, and it works!  Greg, hope you don't mind, but I
> stole your above list and put it on http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/fnrg.html,
> with direct links to the IBM patent server as below:

Hi Bill,

Don't mind at all.  Glad to be of service.  Know of any more patents to
add?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 18:03:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA30156; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 17:49:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 17:49:46 -0800
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 18:49:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Ed Harada <pra xmission.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Noise
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970304131635.0068f5c8 world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970308184644.20446A-100000 xmission.xmission.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"zV2zC1.0.3N7.uSX8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4824
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Mitchel,

Using noise to improve signal quality is called stoichastic resonance.
There is an article in Scientific American on the subject. There is even a
science project in the amateur scientist section. I don't remember the
date, but it was in the last couple of years.

Ed Harada
 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar  8 21:22:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA01358; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:03:23 -0800 (PST)
From: hjscudde pacbell.net
Message-ID: <3322474E.5D7E pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 21:14:54 -0800
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBXE  (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
References: <199703080128.TAA09234 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"0T943.0.7L.NIa8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4825
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 
> At 07:51 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Puthoff wrote:
> >
> >Scott wrote:
> >
> ><<An example of a non-conservative force function is one whose value depends
> >upon the direction of travel....i.e. one that exhibits hysteresis.  If you
> >could have more force when the plates were approaching and less force when
> >they were coming apart, you'd have an engine.>>
> >
> >Any way to do this with hysterical ( I mean hysteretic, or ...?) magnetic
> >plates?
> 
> Good question.  If I'm not mistaken magnetic hysteresis is ALWAYS of the
> wrong sign...i.e. you get less force when the magnet is approaching an iron
> plate because the iron is "reluctant" to be magnetized.  Then when you
> withdraw the magnet you get more force than you did going in because the
> iron is "reluctant" to demagnetize. If this is positive hysteresis, then
> what we are looking for is NEGATIVE HYSTERESIS!
> 
>  - Scott Little
>  EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759
>  512-342-2185 (voice)  512-346-3017 (FAX)  little eden.com (email)
>  http://www.eden.com/~littleScott	
I believe you get a negative hysteresis with circuits like a Schmidt 
trigger, or with bistable flip-flops. Neither is OU of course since they 
use batteries
Hank Scudder

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 01:23:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA31220; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 00:04:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 00:04:27 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af481b1a26f4 [199.237.131.223]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 23:07:29 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: ZPE motor?
Resent-Message-ID: <"jBD-M.0.kd7.9yc8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4826
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:14 PM 3/8/97, hjscudde pacbell.net wrote:
>Scott Little wrote:
>>
>> At 07:51 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Puthoff wrote:
>> >
>> >Scott wrote:
>> >
>> ><<An example of a non-conservative force function is one whose value depends
>> >upon the direction of travel....i.e. one that exhibits hysteresis.  If you
>> >could have more force when the plates were approaching and less force when
>> >they were coming apart, you'd have an engine.>>
>> >
>> >Any way to do this with hysterical ( I mean hysteretic, or ...?) magnetic
>> >plates?
>>
>> Good question.  If I'm not mistaken magnetic hysteresis is ALWAYS of the
>> wrong sign...i.e. you get less force when the magnet is approaching an iron
>> plate because the iron is "reluctant" to be magnetized.  Then when you
>> withdraw the magnet you get more force than you did going in because the
>> iron is "reluctant" to demagnetize. If this is positive hysteresis, then
>> what we are looking for is NEGATIVE HYSTERESIS!
>>
>>  - Scott Little
>>  EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759
>>  512-342-2185 (voice)  512-346-3017 (FAX)  little eden.com (email)
>>  http://www.eden.com/~littleScott
>I believe you get a negative hysteresis with circuits like a Schmidt
>trigger, or with bistable flip-flops. Neither is OU of course since they
>use batteries
>Hank Scudder

Doubtless it will cost to much energy to achieve it, but to some degree you
can get negative hysteresis (as defined above) from superconductors. This
has some relation to recent HTSC anti-gravity experiments, since they are
reported by John Schnurer to be most effective at near the Tc threshold,
and a 10 MHz.  The Tc threshold is only meaningul for DC currents.  You
don't have to cross a Tc threshold to get results if HF is involved.  You
can slide back and forth in a zone of increasing or decreasing partial
supercondcitivity.

As with normal conductors, in superconductors there is surface impedence to
high frequencies due to electron inirtia.  As higher frequencies are
involved increasing numbers of pairs are separated, on balance, and a
mixture of superconduction and normal conduction occurs.  The two realms
are blurred. The higher the frequency the more the shift to normal
conductivity. The cost of this shift is in the energy for pair separation.
It's not quite clear to me why this is, as the two electrons are negative,
so it seems pair separation, though requiring a trigger energy to disrupt
the in phase electron pair quantum waves, would result in an about .5 MeV
energy release, or less. Why is the coulomb barrier only effective when it
is a disadvantage?  8^)  And how is it the electrons get so clever at
overcoming the barrier when cooled? Issues well worth understanding I would
think.

There is also the matter of the lost repulsion from the Meisner effect. If
two charged SC plates can vibrate fast enough, or are augmnented by a HF
signal, upon approach of the plates, the increase in HF current proximity
and intensity reduces the number of pairs and thus decreases the percentage
of superconductivity. This achieves the negative hysteresis.  However, the
Meisner effect produces a repulsing force between the two plates in zones
of opposing current, i.e. magnetic fields. It is therefore important that
the two opposed plates not have large DC or LF components in order to
achieve Casimir hysteresis in a useful way.  If there  is Meisner repulsion
on approach and not on departure, there goes the energy gained from the
Casimir effect. However if the latter is 1/R^4 and the former is 1/R^2 at
some distance Casimir should win.  Could be something based on this
principle would only be useful for producing heat in -100 C abodes.   8^)

Well that's enough babble for this tea party.  I'm late for a very
important date with a pair of superconductors.  8^)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 11:02:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA02294; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:04:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:04:02 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:03:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970309130250_686474031 emout16.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: neg hysteresis
Resent-Message-ID: <"X8xAQ.0.mZ.Hkl8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4827
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little writes:

If this is positive hysteresis, then
> what we are looking for is NEGATIVE HYSTERESIS!
..............................................................................
....................................

Scott I like the way you think.  That's the same line of reasoning I went
through.  Negative Hysteresis is produced by qunatum devices like the tunnel
diode.  Tunneling is the only known process that exhibits "Negative
Hysteresis"  Where then would you look for non-conservation...In the macro
quantum systems like superconductors.  This a another of natures clues that
says to me, "Look again at superconductivity!!"  My antenna pickes up a lot
of clues that say, "Look again at superconductivity and charge clusters"
 Hysteresis is just one of them.

Frank Z
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 12:20:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA10394; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:11:56 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:11:56 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:11:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970309141118_-1439478057 emout15.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: closed path
Resent-Message-ID: <"PgNh92.0.HY2.vjm8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4828
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Many new energy machines are designed to produce energy by preforming and
extracting energy from a force field along a closed path.  Even my good
(although lately a bit backstabbing) friend Frank Stanger is playing this
game.  Frank we will have to send you back to NASA Lewis for some retraining.
 These machines will NEVER WORK.  I don't care if your manipulating the
gravitational field or the electromagnetic field or (excuse me Hal) the
Casmir field.  As Scott Little himself says, "The field is CONSERVATIVE"  

We free energy buffs appear to be a bit stuck.

Then Scott brings up the idea of Hysteresis that sets me into a typing
frenzy.  Why? Scott you asked the right question!!  I say we DO NOT have to
go around a closed path in quantum systems.  We can jump from here to there
along the path by tunneling.  In what kind of systems will this work (Hal
will like this) In macro quantum systems containing condensed
charges...(Hal's famious charge clusters)
..............................................................................
..................................
Point #2  How do we make new positive energy..or if you like this wording
better..How to we extract vacuum energy??? We must create new
gravity..gravity has negative energy that balances the positive energy of the
newly produced substance.  Where does new gravity appear to have been
detected...Yes, you have got it..In a superconductor at Tempere.
..............................................................................
..................................
I feel quite sure that the above to items are the rules of the game and
answers are to be found if we stick with these rules.
..............................................................................
....................................
What do I want to do...add shock to superconductive system or add angular
momentum to a superconductive system.
..............................................................................
...........................
Miley has written to Dick Blue to bring me on his team this summer...a this
is what I want to do. Shocking!!!

Frank Z

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 13:18:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA16275; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:22:29 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:22:29 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Transmutation and Elements in Ores.
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:29:38 +0000
Message-ID: <19970307182936.AAA13728 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"gVjAg.0.D-3.4mn8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4829
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

It is rather interesting to find that in the ore deposits of the heavier
metals,that what could be fission daughter products are found with them.

A case in point, for Tantalum:

Columbite, (Fe,Mn)(Nb,Ta,)2 O6.

Euxenite, Y,Ca,Ce,U,Th, (Nb,Ta,Ti)2  O6

Microlite, (Na,Ca)2 Ta2O6 (O,OH,F).

A reaction like 1H1* + 73Ta181 = 2 37Rb91 + 115 Mev. Looks enticing. It
might be done by cathode bombardment (sputtering) of tantalum in a low
pressure hydrogen discharge?

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 13:46:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA19104; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:31:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 12:31:05 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Self Remediation of Aqueous Nuclear Wastes?
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 15:05:47 +0000
Message-ID: <19970308150545.AAA18389 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"r13h03.0.Fg4.7un8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4830
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

The radioisotopes from nuclear fission should react with a (1H1*) or (1H2*)
in water to form short-lived isotopes that will decay in minutes 
to stable-harmless by-products.

This would indicate that deep ocean burial in suitable casks where 
the seawater can get into the mix might be a safe disposal method.

Is it possible that the water-isotope storage drums now in use are
allowing creation of the (1H1*)-(1H2*) from the decay betas-gammas 
and cleaning themselves already, suggesting that dry-cermet
storage is a bad idea <g>

Isotope        Half-Life (years)          Half-Life (days)

Sr90              28                        ---

Cs137             30                        ---

Tc99              212,000                   ---

Kr85              10.28                     ---

Pm147             2.6                       ---

Ru106             1.0                       ---

Ce144             ---                       290

Zr95-Nb95         ---                       65-35

Y91               ---                       60

Sr89              ---                       54

Ru103             ---                       40

Ce141             ---                       33

Pr143             ---                       14

Ba140             ---                       13

Nd147             ---                       11

I131              ---                       8

Regards,     Frederick




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 14:38:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA28745; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:28:23 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 13:28:23 -0800
Message-ID: <33232B92.11C2 interlaced.net>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 16:28:50 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: closed path
References: <970309141118_-1439478057 emout15.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"hJaYo3.0.317.rjo8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4831
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:
> 
 Frank we will have to send you back to NASA Lewis for some retraining.
>  These machines will NEVER WORK.  

Don't worry, Frank, I was'nt going to rush out to the garage and
"cut metal" on a CCCE (Closed Cycle Casimir Engine)!

> Miley has written to Dick Blue to bring me on his team this summer...a this
> is what I want to do. Shocking!!!
> 
> Frank Z

Frank, I've never seen you do anything that WAS'NT shocking!
Anyway - that was only a rubber knife I stuck in your back - OU ain't
for sissies!

Frank S.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 16:19:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA06400; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 15:09:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 15:09:46 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530500af48f0ee6ac2 [199.237.131.236]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:12:53 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: closed path
Resent-Message-ID: <"OHj5_3.0.vZ1.uCq8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4832
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 2:11 PM 3/9/97, FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:

>....................................
>What do I want to do...add shock to superconductive system or add angular
>momentum to a superconductive system.

That *is* the name of the game anti-gravity. Lots of people busy doing that
right now - thanks to Podkletnof, Modanese, and Schnurer.

>..............................................................................
>...........................
>Miley has written to Dick Blue to bring me on his team this summer...a this
>is what I want to do. Shocking!!!
>
>Frank Z

I thought Dick Blue was retired. He has a new ball game?  Gee Frank, this
is the chance of a lifetime to convert the infidel. Wouldn't it be a joy to
see a free energy patent issued to R. Blue et al!   Or maybe he is looking
to reform free energy enthusiasts one at a time?  8^)

Seriously, however you cut it, it sounds like a really great opportunity
for you Frank. Dick Blue is undoubtedly a great mentor.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 18:03:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA26188; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:48:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:48:31 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <3323683B.2781E494 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 17:47:39 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: closed path
References: <970309141118_-1439478057 emout15.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"iIPMZ1.0.6P6.jXs8p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4833
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:
> 

> Miley has written to Dick Blue to bring me on his team this summer
>...a this is what I want to do. Shocking!!!
> 

Can you clarify this statement---the text is a bit ambiguous. 
Are you saying Dick Blue will join Miley's team, or are you
saying you will recruit DB or vice versa, or .... its not too
clear.


-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar  9 20:23:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA25308; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 20:06:20 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 20:06:20 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970310040544.0066bac0 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:05:44 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re: Rifex & XSH
Resent-Message-ID: <"DT-ex2.0.KB6.tYu8p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4834
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Tom Sloper wrote,

>> The cell at the ANS meeting was said to produce 5 W of heat out from 1.5
W of current in.  Is CETI saying that this information wasn't right, or that
the demo cell in D.C. wasn't the same as the RIFEX cell?. >>

        As of a few years ago, a few scientists were conjecturing that
excess heat might be due to transmutation reactions involving heavy atoms
rather than fusion reactions involving only light atoms.  SIMS tests showed
not only isotopic anomalies in a few atomic species, but also the appearance
of a large number of elements which were totally unexpected.  Moreover, it
was found that isotopic impurities appear always appear in just about every
electrochemical test (I have't yet heard of a SIMS test on an
electrochemical cathode which does NOT show anomalies).  Yet a lot of these
impurities are not isotopically shifted (i.e., they occur in natural
abundance).  
        Many researchers (including yours truly) would like to focus on the
isotopically shifted stuff first.  If it can be verified that this stuff is
not some arcane artifact of the SIMS process on an isotopic cell cathode,
then the existence of an anomaly would be virtually irrefutable.  At that
point, we would then have grounds to consider more carefully the question
about whether non-shifted impurities are generated by a nuclear process,
rather than simple chemical transport as has been previously assumed.
        IMHO verification of the SIMS data requires neutron activation
analysis confirmation of the isotopes in question on the same material
yielding positive SIMS results.  On the other hand, if the NAA result is
negative, I would like to see an annealling treatment followed by another
SIMS test.  If that SIMS test is also negative, it would mean that isotopic
shift is some kind of isotope separation or other unknown surface effect.
The burden of proof would then fall more strongly upon the experimenters to
show why the impurities are something other than chemical contamination.
        If for the moment we assume that the unexplained impurities are due
to some nuclear process, it would imply that nuclear transmutations are
extremely common in electrolysis cells.  However, they are not
characteristic of excess heat (i.e., some form of apparent transmutations
appear regardless of whether there is excess heat or not). So transmutations
and excess heat seem to me, at least, to be quite separate issues in the
absence of a comprehensive understanding of the cold fusion effect (thus,
failure of Rifex would not preclude the existence of excess heat; or
conversely, withdrawal of an excess heat claim would not preclude the
existence of a nuclear anomaly).
        
Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo Japan


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 14:32:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA02125; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:07:55 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:07:55 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:45:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970310134520_-970146213 emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: french TV
Resent-Message-ID: <"O5rHE3.0.-W.VO89p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4835
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

French TV to send me shots from Pons and Fleishcman's lab in Nice France.
 Will FWD to Jean Mallove

Frank Z
Subj:	french TV (2)
Date:	97-03-10 07:39:14 EST
From:	lentin imaginet.fr (Jean-Pierre Lentin)
To:	FZNIDARSIC aol.com

Dear Frank Znidarsic

Thank you very much for your reply.

We were, of course, aware of Pons & Feischmann, and we have contacted
Stanley Pons at IMRA (Fleischmann doesn't work here any longer, apparently
he is sort of "retired"). We are waiting for his answer, and we hope we will
interview him and report on the work at IMRA.

We are also in contact with Eugene Mallove, and Douglas Collins from CETI
(we will also ask ABC for their program on Patterson).We had an answer from
Dominic Murphy, who says the program "It runs on water" is owned by Channel
Four, so we will get it from them).

We will contact Dr Miley, McFee, Storms, Puthoff, Little, Noever. Thank you
for the informations !

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 15:16:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA07953; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:34:06 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:34:06 -0800 (PST)
Date: 10 Mar 97 08:51:00 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: NO RETRACTIONS from CETI or me
Message-ID: <970310135059_72240.1256_EHB76-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"C4-BL.0.3y1.Dn89p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4836
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Tom Stolper is the latest person to write:

     The cell at the ANS meeting was said to produce 5 W of heat out from 1.5
     W of current in.  Is CETI saying that this information wasn't right, or
     that the demo cell in D.C. wasn't the same as the RIFEX cell?

No, CETI has not retracted any claims of heat, neither big (1000+ watts) nor
small. Neither has Dennis Cravens or George Miley, and neither have I.

Tom is asking a question here, which is fine, but he may have been prompted to
do so but a quiet buzz of unfounded speculation that are published here from
time to time. I wish that sort of thing would stop. Some people have even
posted messages claiming there have been retractions. This is rumor mongering,
and I think it is unacceptable. It is perfectly okay to say: "I don't think
CETI's claims / Dennis's calorimetry / Jed's thermometer is valid for thus and
such reason." You can say CETI *should* retract. But I think people should
refrain from saying CETI *has* retracted. If they ever do retract, please
believe me you will hear it from me first, and I will provide the date, time,
place, person, exact words and other gory details. Nobody connected with CETI,
and nobody I know who has observed the experiments first-hand has any doubt
that the excess heat is real. In our view (CETI's and mine) the claims have
not been weakened by any hypotheses posted here, in s.p.f., or anywhere else.
These hypotheses are totally without merit. In my view, most of them are
absurd and can be dismissed without consideration and without experiment. I
think in their hearts the people expounding these hypothesis agree with me,
because they themselves do not bother to test the ideas. They know they are
wrong.

I do not know the details of the RIFEX cells, but I do not they well suited
for calorimetry. It may be that the cells are producing heat at levels too low
to be measured with this device. There is a trade off between calorimetric
accuracy and cleanliness. Cleanliness is emphasized because the RIFEX cell is
intended to show transmutations. That's my understanding, anyway. Perhaps
Scott Little will correct me. In any case, CETI has reportedly constructed
large, kilowatt level heat generating cells with the latest materials. The
cell and bead material holds up much better with extended use than the
Power-Gen cell, which, as I reported here many times, self-destructed after a
few months from heat and oxidation.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 15:36:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA17157; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:19:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:19:13 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:55:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Heat not dead end, Landauer got back.
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970310144142.10699B-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"VbU032.0.eB4.PR99p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4837
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians,

Rolf Landauer got back. I respect him very much. He is very busy 
(everyone keeps asking him to review papers, opine on promotions etc.) 
plus HIS WORK of course.

>From what I can gather, he at least read my abstract and the nice man he 
is, sent me his paper with his current thoughts on the Maxwell Demon 
problem viewed from a measurement perspective. STACKS of references - 
this is good for my research, very generous of the man - do I dare 
interpret the response? do I dare try to believe that he might see things 
as I do? This is self indulgence (self abuse :-) !) and its better to be 
impartial and just work steadily on the reference list etc.

What Rolf isn't is a closed minded establishment a**hole.

Please regard Rolf as a useful friend of the Vortex crackpot squad - BUT! 
don't abuse the relationship - just because I sent him my paper and he
seems openminded, don't go littering his in-tray with your papers (or
scraps of paper) - especially if they're half worked out and full of
holes. 

All the best Vo.
Remi.
.............................................
Its spring in England, and the sap's rising
.............................................

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 16:23:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA27528; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:07:06 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:07:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
Message-Id: <199703101936.LAA00672 shell.skylink.net>
Subject: Re: Interesting OU? Patents (fwd)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:36:26 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970308155632.4301B-100000 eskimo.com> from "William Beaty" at Mar 8, 97 03:57:39 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"cwnpb1.0.Ej6.-7A9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4838
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greg Watson writes: 
> Don't mind at all.  Glad to be of service.  Know of any more patents to
> add?

Here are two additional patents for devices which claim 
to generate continuous motion via permanent magnets.

US Patent #3811058, Rotary-to-Reciprocating Device,
Awarded to Zane Chadrick Kiniski, 14 May 1974

US Patent #3879622, Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion
Device, Awarded to John W. Ecklin, 29 Mar 1974

Regards,
Robert Stirniman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 18:38:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA21334; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:25:33 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:25:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3324C284.3229 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:25:10 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: NO RETRACTIONS from CETI or me
References: <970310135059_72240.1256_EHB76-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"CSdrg3.0.2D5.NAC9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4839
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed wrote:

   >  I do not know the details of the RIFEX cells, but I do
   >  not they well suited for calorimetry. [sic]

Do you mean they are not well suited or you do not know if they are well
suited...or what?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 20:25:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA25188 for billb@eskimo.com; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:05:13 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:05:13 -0800
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 20:05:13 -0800
X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 20:05:08 1997
Old-Date: 10 Mar 97 22:45:29 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 CompuServe.COM>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: No retractions, plenty typos
Message-ID: <970311034529_72240.1256_EHB66-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"flR_p2.0.J96.qdD9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4840
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail vortex-l-dist eskimo.com failed
X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored
X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

I meant to say:


I do not know the details of the RIFEX cells, but I do not think
they are well suited for calorimetry.


Perhaps Scott could comment on that.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 21:41:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA06588; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:30:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:30:14 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:29:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970311002945_753662701 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: path
Resent-Message-ID: <"yQaHO.0.rc1.ZtE9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4841
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


      THE PATH

      A while back there was considerable discussion on the Vortex
      about complex energy systems with pulleys and magnets.  Scott
      Little suggested that these discussions be moved to Frerig-L.
      Thank you Scott.  These kind of machines attempt to extract
      energy from force fields in in a cyclic manner (around a closed
      path).  The error in the logic of such a devices may be
      discovered with a simple thought experiment.  Suppose you have a
      one pound ball and take it for a walk.  No matter where you go,
      when you come back to the same place, the gravitational
      potential energy contained by the ball returns to its initial
      value.  It doesn't matter if you carry the ball through Cuba,
      under the ice pack, and around the moon.  Upon your return to
      start you will not gain a thing, the gravitational potential of
      the ball returns to what it was when you started.  Not only does
      it not matter what path you take it does not matter what forces
      you experience on the trip.  That's what the little circles mean
      on Maxwell's integrals.  The field is conservative around a
      closed path.   As per Scotts Littles comments, it appears that
      all fields are conservative including, gravity,
      electromagnitism, the strong nuclear, and the Casimir.  Hal
      Puthoff gets around this problem by throwing charge clusters
      away.  The state of the system is changed. The path is not
      closed.  The system now contains charge clusters.  If these
      charge clusters are energetically favorable, where are they?  It
      appears we free energy buffs are really stuck in the mud. Then
      Scott gets me going and I state that we do not have to go around
      a closed path but can tunnel from here to there.  Remember the
      ball we took for a walk.  If classical systems could tunnel the
      ball could jump to the top of Mt. Everest and, in the process,
      get a spontaneous dose of gravitational potential energy.
      Before Berry Merryman hammers me I should say, "I know, Berry,
      tunneling does not occur unless it is energetically favorable"
      If classical systems could tunnel we might tunnel down from Mt.
      Everest (with considerable kinetic energy when we hit the
      ground) but tunneling up is not energetically favorable or
      possible.  Are we stuck in the mud again?  Not quite.  Let's
      look at a tunneling process, Alpha decay.  The alpha tunnels out
      of the nucleus and speeds away with considerable kinetic energy.
      Where did the kinetic energy come from?  Of course, I know,
      binding energy.  The nucleus that remains is more tightly bound.
      It contains an amount of NEGATIVE binding energy that is
      equivalent to the kinetic energy of that ejected alpha. Fields
      are NOT conserved.  The negative binding energy is associated
      with more of that strong nuclear flux.  With that in mind lets
      look again at an electron in a zero point system or
      superconductor.  We brutally hit the electron with an electronic
      sludge hammer.  It tunnels though a phase change and winds up
      on the other side with increased energy.  As in the case of
      alpha decay more negative energy must remain behind to compensate for
      this increased kinetic energy.  In this case the negative energy
      that remains behind is in the form of additional gravitational
      flux.  Can this happen?  If all conservation laws are obeyed it
      can.  Then, why doesn't this process happen everywhere all the
      time.  The process conserves energy, however,
      it does not conserve angular momentum or spin.  Yes, that's why
      we need the condensation.  Phonons within the condensation
      supply the needed spin.  Wha-la new energy is produced and the
      universe falls a little deeper into a gravitational hole.  As
      Hal says, "It happened at least once"

      Don't let the word Gravity scare you away from the process. 
      (Frank Stenger   I''m taking about you now)
      I know that we all know that the bigest brains have worked years to
      unify gravity with electromagnitism, and they couldn't do it.
      So what!!!   We use electronic devices without any knowledge of a
      gravitational / electromagnetic unification.  All that we know (or
      need to know) is how to exploit the symmetrical relationship that
      exists between the electric and magnetic fields.  A similar
      symmetrical relationship exists between force and gravity.
      That's all the math we really need to know to understand the
      process.  The derivations on the symmetrical gravitational/ force
relationship
      are all on my "Book on a Disk".

      Does anyone other than Miley understand me?  It really easy not hard
      at all.

      Frank Z


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 22:40:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA09530 for billb@eskimo.com; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:39:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:39:26 -0800
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:39:26 -0800
X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 22:39:26 1997
From: Tstolper aol.com
Old-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 08:35:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970310083558_1082600149 emout15.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  RIFEX & XSH
Resent-Message-ID: <"GQ8Pp1.0.cK2.TuF9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4842
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail vortex-l-dist eskimo.com failed
X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored
X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a message posted on Saturday afternoon, March 8, 1997, Mike Carrell said
that he had seen two cells at CETI's ANS booth in November 1996, and that
"The active, heat-producing cell was in a corner at the back of the booth."
 Mike also said that his photos of both cells are on the cover of IE No. 10.

Mike:  thanks for providing another "observation-dot" here on Vortex-L, as
well as for the ones you provided in IE No. 10. 

I liked your image of trying to connect the scattered observation-dots into a
coherent image.  Everyone interested in the field is trying to do that,
experimentalists, theorists, and commentators alike.  IMO (rarely humble),
the biggest problem that CF has is the lack of agreement on what the true
image really is.

But what about the Rifex cell?  Is is supposed to produce excess heat (XSH)
as well as transmutations, or transmutations but no XSH?  The distinction
seems like an important one to me.

(By the way, my last name, Stolper, gets misspelled a lot, but Sloper is a
new variation.)

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 10 23:13:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA15059; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:02:43 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:02:43 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:02:45 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703110702.BAA14159 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: NO RETRACTIONS from CETI or me
Resent-Message-ID: <"bGt701.0.Dh3.HEG9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4843
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 08:51 AM 3/10/97 EST, Jed wrote:

>I do not know the details of the RIFEX cells, but I do not they well suited
>for calorimetry. It may be that the cells are producing heat at levels too low
>to be measured with this device. There is a trade off between calorimetric
>accuracy and cleanliness. Cleanliness is emphasized because the RIFEX cell is
>intended to show transmutations. That's my understanding, anyway. Perhaps
>Scott Little will correct me.

That's the official line, Jed.  All I've heard is that, when the cell was
"cleaned up" it quit making heat.  I'm trying to be a good boy and follow
the rules so I am working on the transmutation stuff and not the heat.  I'm
finding some interesting things and I'm trying to track down where they
might have come from.  It is time-consuming work.  Can't say anymore right
now due to contractual obligations to CETI.  First report WILL be published
within a month or two.

>In any case, CETI has reportedly constructed
>large, kilowatt level heat generating cells with the latest materials. The
>cell and bead material holds up much better with extended use than the
>Power-Gen cell...

Can you reveal the source of this report, Jed?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 00:07:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA18180; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33251E78.3EC microtronics.com.au>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:27:28 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Tolman Effect
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Qh5Nw2.0.qR4.I2H9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4844
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi All,

Does anybody have any info on the Tolman Effect.  Came across it while
doing research into unusual magnetic effects.

Basically what I currently know is that the effect refers to a EMF
generation in metals due to acceleration.  Seems the electrons are
ripped from their orbits by the acceleration and can cause current flow. 

If this is so, I am having trouble seeing how electrical power thus
generated will result in a increase in the accelerating energy
requirements.

Can any of you vortexians drag data from your data banks and comment?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 01:14:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA32142 for billb@eskimo.com; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:12:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:12:45 -0800
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:12:45 -0800
X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 01:12:44 1997
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: All Particles Are Created Equal? From ZPE?
Old-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:11:09 +0000
Message-ID: <19970311091107.AAA5571 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"QhOQJ2.0.0s7.C8I9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4845
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail vortex-l-dist eskimo.com failed
X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored
X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

There seems to be an implication that any particle is just a relativistic
state of one of the particles of a fundamental pair of particles:

1, Mass = Mo * gamma, for each particle of the pair.

2, Radius = hbar*c*alpha/(Mo*gamma*c^2) = hbar*alpha/(Mr*c)

3, Or, Radius = q^2/[4(Pi)*Mo*gamma*c^2]

Where alpha is the "Fine Structure Constant" 0.00729729.

Thus, there should be particles that may have rest masses that may range
from Me/137^4 or less, to n*Me/alpha such as the 
pi meson (2*Me/alpha) = 274*Me on up to the heaviest particles observed in
particle accelerators.

Various combinations of these pairs make up the nuclei such as
the hydrogen atom "triad" and external electron, and the neutrons etc., 
with 5A - Z "entities" in a set;

2A -Z "up" or positive entities

2A - Z "down" or negative entities

Z external entities or electrons

A -Z neutrinos (a net spin 1/2, near zero mass neutral pair)

The charge, q on each = CV/4(Pi)^2 where C = r * eo/alpha^2 and V = (E/C)^1/2

Can these come into existence from ZPE, agitation of atoms/molecules,
or photons?

This begs the question: are all particles and particle combinations just
allowed states in the ZPE aether?

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 01:15:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA32403 for billb@eskimo.com; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:13:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:13:55 -0800
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:13:55 -0800
X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 01:13:55 1997
Message-ID: <33252ECE.3465 microtronics.com.au>
Old-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:37:10 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bshannon tiac.net
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Barkenhausen Effect Battery Charger
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"1s7qu1.0.4w7.I9I9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4846
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail vortex-l-dist eskimo.com failed
X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored
X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi Bob,

I came across the following while doing other research.  Do you think
the effect may help to explain the output from your Barkenhausen Effect
Battery Charger?

I quote from the "Handbook of Magnetic Phenomena", 1988, Harry E. Burke,
ISBN 0-442-21184-8 (One of the best handbooks I ever purchased) :

"When a number of magnetons exposed to a common magnetic field align
themselves with that field, two alignments are possible: parallel (with
the imposed field) and antiparallel (opposite to the imposed field).  A
slight difference in the energy content of these two directions can be
detected when a magneton is made to flip from one orientation to the
other.  This energy difference derives from the distortion of the
aligning field that occurs in the presence of each magneton field.  In
this case, parallel orientations represent a little less energy than
antiparallel orientations do.

When immersed in weak magnetic fields, some magnetons axes remain
thermally excited in random directions, some aligning with the field and
some against the field.  There are always more magnetons aligned with
than against, however.  In stronger fields, all susceptible magnetons
are aligned either with or against the common field.  As field
intensities increase, the number aligned with increases, whereas the
number aligned against decreases.

All the magnetons in a material are exposed simultaneously to both
thermal forces and aligning magnetic-field forces.  These two forces
interrelate.  Flipping back and forth between parallelism and
antiparallelism is part of a material's normal thermal activities. 
Although the time at which a particular magneton reverses direction is
of a random derivation, the relative density of parallel and
antiparallel populations is a constant that depends both on the strength
of the imposed field and on temperature.

As a result of the flipping back and forth between parallelism and
antiparallelism, ENERGY IS CONSTANTLY RADIATED from body of magnetized
material."

So, as a body, thermal domain flipping (rotation) should not be able to
generate any generalized, global energy output.  However.

If we now consider a magnetic material biased to be at the max point of
Barkenhausen noise generation and realize that this noise is generated
by domain wall pinning due to local crystal imperfections, one could see
a local thermal flipping of the domains, adjacent to the pinned wall,
which would overcome the local pinning, release the domain wall and
generate a Barkenhausen output pulse due to the domain avalanche which
would result.

Bob, what do you think?  

Have you run a test series looking at output as a function of
temperature?

Have you developed a method to convert random thermal domain movement
into power?  If so, we may be able to increase the energy output.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 02:28:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA11688 for billb@eskimo.com; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:27:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:27:37 -0800
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:27:37 -0800
X-Envelope-From: vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 02:27:36 1997
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <33253380.41C67EA6 math.ucla.edu>
Old-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:27:12 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: NO RETRACTIONS from CETI or me
References: <199703110702.BAA14159 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"tnF0u1.0.Ms2.NEJ9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4847
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
X-Diagnostic: /usr/lib/sendmail vortex-l-dist eskimo.com failed
X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored
X-Diagnostic: Possible loopback problem
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed said:
> 
> >In any case, CETI has reportedly constructed
> >large, kilowatt level heat generating cells with the 
> >latest materials. 

Maybe so, but it sure makes no sense. Why *publicly release*
a kit to demonstrate the reality of you process to the scientific
world---so there can be no claim of trying to maintain a low
profile---but base that kit on a process that makes it extremely
difficult to validate (nanocsale "transmutation" in a *cathode*),
when at the same time you have the ol' kilowatt heater sitting
back at headquarters. This is truly ridiculous, no matter
what the underlying causation is---unless they don't really
have such heaters.

Personally, I really can't comprehend Miley's relation with
CETI. If they had come to me, asking me to study transmutation
in their system, and said they were on the verge of demoing
a kilowatt systems with gains > 100:1 (as the supposedly
were back in the SOFE/Powergen days) I would have insisted to
be allowed to thouroghly study such a high yield system 
to verify it functioning---this would be a triviality compared
to the ensuing transmutation investiagtion, and it would
be natural from both a practical and scientific standpoint to
study it first. Maybe Miley did do this, but I have
never heard word of it. Oh well, there is no accounting for tatse....



-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 04:20:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA05246; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 03:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:57:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Molten Metals, pyrolysis by spark discharge (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970311115652.11213A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"DE_p43.0.rH1.RYK9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4848
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

For some reason I got this wrong and emailed this message to myself!
Its yonks old now, sorry.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:46:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9>
To: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9>
Subject: Re: Molten Metals, pyrolysis by spark discharge

Frederick (or previous emailer on Molten Metals, logged out and lost 
message),

Have you considered pyrolysis by spark discharge? This could be energy 
efficient.

Interesting question? What determines the final temperature of a flame? 
Chemical flames are relatively cool, only a few eV's liberated per 
reaction, then there's the heating of the reactants to consider, and heat 
dissapation by convection.

Do chemical flames burn hotter under different conditions, i.e. 
microgravity where there is minimal convection? (Well they must, eg. 
'tuning' of an oxy-acetalene torch for mix and flow rate, added
after-thought). 

Hot ionised gases or plasmas can be produced by more efficient means than
just burning. What could be said to be the temperature of a continuous
spark? Thermodynamically, is it meaningful to talk of the temperature of a
neon discharge in an ad. tube (forget the I2R dissaption from current
flow)? I think one can only talk about something having a temperature when
it is near thermodynamic equilibrium. It must cause things to decompose in
a non thermal manner, such as by u.v. degradation or free radical attack. 

Remi.

P.S. that lovely blue\lilac colour you get when burning hydrocarbons, it
should be put in paint colour catalogues, I'm sure it would sell:
'Arsonist Blue' or 'Fatal Blue Flicker'.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 10:02:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA03547; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:47:12 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:47:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33259ABF.25E8 interlaced.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:47:43 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: path
References: <970311002945_753662701 emout03.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"sgHsR3.0.Kt.TgP9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4849
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:
> 
(snip)
>       Don't let the word Gravity scare you away from the process.
>       (Frank Stenger   I''m taking about you now)

Frank (Z), now that you're going to school, you're getting waaaaay too
smart!  If you were'nt a foot taller and younger than me - I'd have to
slap you around some.  Hey, good luck with this "Mr. Blue thing".  I
wish you well.

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 13:35:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA25516; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:23:05 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:23:05 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3325CD4E.78A9 interlaced.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:23:26 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: hheffner corecom.net
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com, frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net
Subject: BIG SUCKER!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bwwtl2.0.PE6.mqS9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4850
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hey, Horace and Frederick:

I was just musing about the size of the "light electrons" in general.

If you consider the "clasical radius", r, of an elementary charge, q,
you get an equation that looks like:

	r = q^2 / (4)(Pi)(epsilon_0)(rest mass x c^2)  meters.

For the electron, this works out to about 2.81 x 10^-15 meters.
If I understand this, this just means that if you integrated all the
electric field energy from infinity inward, when you reached the radius
r, your energy integral would equal the equivalence of the rest-mass
of the particle.

This means that the clasical radius of the "lights" would be 137 times
larger (was this the right ratio?) than for normal electrons.
These guys would be BIG SUCKERS at about .0077 angstrom units diameter!
Man, that's some beach-ball.  

Anyone care to try to explain to me what meaning, if any, the "clasical
radius" has in quant-tum phiz-ecks?  (I did'nt think so!)

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 16:24:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02833; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:56:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:56:55 -0800
Date: 11 Mar 97 18:54:40 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Test message with nice quotes
Message-ID: <970311235440_100433.1541_BHG78-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"CDi5T3.0.7i.55V9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4852
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed,

 > . . . far spookier than the advent of Dolly [the cloned sheep] is
 > the idea of Congress rushing off from gee-whiz headlines into the
 > iffy business of passing laws about what scientists may research
 > and whey they may not.
 > 
 > - Tom Teepen, Atlanta Journal, March 11, 1997, regarding
 > legislative initiatives to ban experiments in cloning human beings

Well, cloning humans is illegal in the UK anyway.  But I think it's all
a lot of fuss about very little.  Any new organism is a new organism,
even identical twins differ - and clones would differ more because of
the different uterine environment, as well as a (usually) more different
environment.

In my view cloning is, more than anything else, a gift to the chattering
classes.  Here, all the usual faces are out, flapping their mouths to
little significant effect.  Doubtless the same is true all around the
globe.

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 18:29:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA11260; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:45:11 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:45:11 -0800
From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
Message-Id: <199703120044.QAA00981 shell.skylink.net>
Subject: BIG SUCKER
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:44:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bDjTT2.0.ll2.JoV9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4853
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frank Stenger writes:
> This means that the clasical radius of the "lights" would be 137 times
> larger (was this the right ratio?) than for normal electrons.
> These guys would be BIG SUCKERS at about .0077 angstrom units diameter!
> Man, that's some beach-ball.  

> Anyone care to try to explain to me what meaning, if any, the "clasical
> radius" has in quant-tum phiz-ecks?  (I did'nt think so!)

I sure don't know how to explain it. But maybe while someone
is at it, they could also explain why the classical diameter of
the electron works out to be 1/137 of the wavelength 
of the lowest energy state electron in the Bohr atom. And also 
why the wavelength of the electron works out to be 1/137 of the 
diameter of the Bohr atom. Hence the name, fine structure constant. It's
a curious thing that the two size ratios are so exactly similar, and
also that they work out almost exactly to an integer amount.

Yes please, can someone explain this?

Regards,
Robert Stirniman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:08:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA16791; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:24:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:24:04 -0800
Message-Id: <199703120123.RAA20778 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:26:07 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: quotes & clones
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <970311235440_100433.1541_BHG78-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"ulUfC.0.C64.oMW9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4854
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I agree with Chris about much fuss over nothing very significant. As for me I'd 
support legislation outlawing twins what an outrageous atrocity they are. 
Splitting a perfectly happy embryo in a most delicate stage in its development. 
Surely one of them must be the evil twin and one the victim. Can we risk 
finding out which one. 

And as for cloning sheep, or as we call them out west, Range Maggots. Do away 
with them all. 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:43:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA12260; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:22:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:22:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <332628B7.6B8A microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:23:27 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
References: <9703112131.AA30899 mail1.halcyon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"UYTCv1.0.T_2.f5Y9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4857
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg and All,
>    Here's some info on the Tolman effect:
> 
> 1) "In these experiments a circular coil of wire, wound tightly on a rigid
> nonmagnetic bobbin, was rotated at high speed about its (vertical) axis, and
> was quickly brought to rest with suitable brakes...In circuit with the coil
> to be tested was another coil wound to have the same total area and placed
> parallel, but oppositely connected, so that fluctuations in the earth's
> magnetic field had a minimum effect on the galvanometer. The rotating coil
> was surrounded with a coil of wire so constructed and so oriented as
> approximately to neutralize, when transversed by a suitable electric
> current, the vertical intensity of the earth's field in the region occupied
> by the coil. This was desirable in order to eliminate the electromotive
> force which would have been induced in the coil by its centrifugal expansion
> across the vertical intensity..
> In making an experiment the coil was first brought up to full speed, and the
> galvanometer zero reading taken, then the brakes were applied and the coli
> brought to rest (in a fraction of a second). Then the throw of the
> galvanometer was determined."
> 
> 2)  "..Thus the acceleration of the electrons in the conductor produces in
> it an intrinsic electromotive force E= -(ml/e)(dV/dt)."
> m= mass of electron
> e= charge of electron
> l= circumference of rotating coil
> V= linear velocity of coil
> 
> 3) Quite a number of experiments were done by several researchers. In the
> review paper from which the above quotes were taken, no values for E were
> given. It was said, however, "The investigation of Tolman, Karrer, and
> Guernsey gave a mean value of m/e 8 percent less than the standard value for
> free electrons; the more elaborate investigation of Tolman and Mott-Smith a
> value 19 percent less than the standard value; while that of Tolman and
> Stewart gave a value 15 percent less than the standard value. In the work of
> Tolman and Mott-Smith the phase of the electromagnetic force due to
> electron-inertia lagged about 10+6 behind that of -dV/dt, while the two
> values should be cophasal according to the theory. No explanation of this
> discrepancy was found."
> You can figure out the value of the EMF from this information.
> 
> There's a lot more in this paper I'm looking at, but that's the gist of it
> as far as the Tolman effect is concerned. A few points I'd like to make:
> 
> 1) The derivation of the equation for EMF includes a term for the friction
> of the electrons within the metal. Thus the effect would be much greater in
> a superconductor.
> 
> 2) Note the phrase in (1) above, .."in order to eliminate the electromotive
> force which would have been induced in the coil by its centrifugal expansion
> across the vertical intensity." This implies that a magnetostatic field with
> lines of force parallel to the axis would increase the EMF. It should be
> noted that the equations of motion for a charge in a magnetic field are
> identical to equations of motion of a mass in a "centrifugal field". (As an
> aside: there is a recent development in Black Hole theory which shows that
> the Huygens view of centrifugal force as a real force is accurate as opposed
> to the Newtonian model. Also, it appears from one paper I have that it is
> possible to extract power from the centrifugal force in a rotating object
> without affecting the rotational energy.)
> 
> 3) Acceleration generates the force, not velocity: (dV/dt). So extremely
> abrupt back and forth acceleration of the disc would be more effective than
> steady unidirectional acceleration. (And would produce AC power).
> 
> 4) What if you used charged, heavy ions in a metallic crystal lattice where
> they could move freely? Since the effect depends on the mass of the
> particle, it would be greatly increased.
> 
> 5) Mechanically moving a coulomb of electrons one meter takes less energy
> than electromagnetically moving them. As physical objects they are extremely
> light with very little inertia, as electrical objects they exhibit marked
> resistance to movement. Maybe that's why electrostatic machines keep popping
> up in overunity work.
> 
> All quotes are from:
> "Gyromagnetic and Electron-Inertia Effects" by S.J. Barnett
> Reviews of Modern Physics, V. 7, Apr. 1935
> 
> (I don't have the centrifugal force papers handy)
> 
> Hope this information helps.  Let me know if you want more..
>                         Fred

Hi Fred,

Thanks Fred.  The info is helpful.  What else have you got?  

My source :

  "Handbook of Magnetic Phenomena, 1988, Harry E. Burke, 
  ISBN 0-442-21184-8, Page 165"

goes on to say :
___________

"10.2 Accelerated Conductor.

Consider the circumstance of a conductor moving through field-free space
at a constant velocity.  This movement does not affect any particular
particle within the conductor more than any other particle since all
particles are moving at the same speed.

When a conductor is accelerated, however, a force of acceleration is
applied to each particle that differs in accordance with the mass of
that particle.  In addition, each particle responds to this force within
the constraints of the chemical bonds that help create the material from
which the conductor is fabricated.  As the bonds on conduction electrons
tend to be less restrictive than those on other particles, the force of
electron inertia displaces electrons slightly within the material, and
this displacement establishes a voltage gradient within the conductor as
a result of the force of acceleration.

As conduction electrons see a different enviroment in each type of
conductor, the effect of acceleration sets up a different voltage in
each type of conductor.  If a complete electric circuit is constructed
from two different types of conducting material, a circulating current
will result when this circuit is accelerated because of the difference
voltage generated within the two types of conducting materials".
___________

Seems all we need to do is to construct a high speed rotor with the
differencial voltage generators on the outer edge, rotate it at a very
high rpm (hence high acceleration), squeeze the electrons out, get a
current flow, do some work and without it seems, causing any additional
load on the rotor.  

Is this what your other paper on the extraction of energy from rotating
systems is implying?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:45:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA12159; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:22:01 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:22:01 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3326293E.2AB8 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:25:42 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: permanent magnet toroid
References: <9703112125.AD11774 atom.om.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Fep9H3.0.fz2.J5Y9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4855
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A

mindtech om.com.au wrote:
> 
> Found this interesting (?) patent. A toroidal waveguide using _permanent_
> magnets to accelerate electrons. Comments invited. Is that voltage gain I hear?
> 
> Peter Nielsen, E.E.
> 
> 5422618 : Toroidal permanent magnet solenoid
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> INVENTORS:Leupold; Herbert A., Eatontown, NJ
> ASSIGNEES:The United States of America as represented by the Secretary of
> the Army, Washington, DC

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the info.  Will have a look and get back.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 11 19:47:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA32587; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:22:19 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:22:19 -0800
Message-ID: <33262A32.294B microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:29:46 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: path
References: <970311002945_753662701 emout03.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"8aOAR2.0.ly7.X5Y9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4856
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:
> 
>       THE PATH
> 
>       A while back there was considerable discussion on the Vortex
>       about complex energy systems with pulleys and magnets.  Scott
>       Little suggested that these discussions be moved to Frerig-L.
>       Thank you Scott.  These kind of machines attempt to extract
>       energy from force fields in in a cyclic manner (around a closed
>       path).  The error in the logic of such a devices may be
>       discovered with a simple thought experiment.  Suppose you have a
>       one pound ball and take it for a walk.  No matter where you go,
>       when you come back to the same place, the gravitational
>       potential energy contained by the ball returns to its initial
>       value.  It doesn't matter if you carry the ball through Cuba,
>       under the ice pack, and around the moon.  Upon your return to
>       start you will not gain a thing, the gravitational potential of
>       the ball returns to what it was when you started.  Not only does
>       it not matter what path you take it does not matter what forces
>       you experience on the trip.  That's what the little circles mean
>       on Maxwell's integrals.  The field is conservative around a
>       closed path.   As per Scotts Littles comments, it appears that
>       all fields are conservative including, gravity,
>       electromagnitism, the strong nuclear, and the Casimir.  Hal
>       Puthoff gets around this problem by throwing charge clusters
>       away.  The state of the system is changed. The path is not
>       closed.  The system now contains charge clusters.  If these
>       charge clusters are energetically favorable, where are they?  It
>       appears we free energy buffs are really stuck in the mud. Then
>       Scott gets me going and I state that we do not have to go around
>       a closed path but can tunnel from here to there.  Remember the
>       ball we took for a walk.  If classical systems could tunnel the
>       ball could jump to the top of Mt. Everest and, in the process,
>       get a spontaneous dose of gravitational potential energy.
>       Before Berry Merryman hammers me I should say, "I know, Berry,
>       tunneling does not occur unless it is energetically favorable"
>       If classical systems could tunnel we might tunnel down from Mt.
>       Everest (with considerable kinetic energy when we hit the
>       ground) but tunneling up is not energetically favorable or
>       possible.  Are we stuck in the mud again?  Not quite.  Let's
>       look at a tunneling process, Alpha decay.  The alpha tunnels out
>       of the nucleus and speeds away with considerable kinetic energy.
>       Where did the kinetic energy come from?  Of course, I know,
>       binding energy.  The nucleus that remains is more tightly bound.
>       It contains an amount of NEGATIVE binding energy that is
>       equivalent to the kinetic energy of that ejected alpha. Fields
>       are NOT conserved.  The negative binding energy is associated
>       with more of that strong nuclear flux.  With that in mind lets
>       look again at an electron in a zero point system or
>       superconductor.  We brutally hit the electron with an electronic
>       sludge hammer.  It tunnels though a phase change and winds up
>       on the other side with increased energy.  As in the case of
>       alpha decay more negative energy must remain behind to compensate for
>       this increased kinetic energy.  In this case the negative energy
>       that remains behind is in the form of additional gravitational
>       flux.  Can this happen?  If all conservation laws are obeyed it
>       can.  Then, why doesn't this process happen everywhere all the
>       time.  The process conserves energy, however,
>       it does not conserve angular momentum or spin.  Yes, that's why
>       we need the condensation.  Phonons within the condensation
>       supply the needed spin.  Wha-la new energy is produced and the
>       universe falls a little deeper into a gravitational hole.  As
>       Hal says, "It happened at least once"
> 
>       Don't let the word Gravity scare you away from the process.
>       (Frank Stenger   I''m taking about you now)
>       I know that we all know that the bigest brains have worked years to
>       unify gravity with electromagnitism, and they couldn't do it.
>       So what!!!   We use electronic devices without any knowledge of a
>       gravitational / electromagnetic unification.  All that we know (or
>       need to know) is how to exploit the symmetrical relationship that
>       exists between the electric and magnetic fields.  A similar
>       symmetrical relationship exists between force and gravity.
>       That's all the math we really need to know to understand the
>       process.  The derivations on the symmetrical gravitational/ force
>       relationship
>       are all on my "Book on a Disk".
> 
>       Does anyone other than Miley understand me?  It really easy not hard
>       at all.
> 
>       Frank Z

Hi Frank,

Don't discount ferromagnetic systems.  Would enjoy your comments on the
12 points of the operational characteristics of my DNMEC generator
posted earlier.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 00:21:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA05971; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:07:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:07:52 -0800 (PST)
Date: 12 Mar 97 03:05:35 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
Message-ID: <970312080534_100060.173_JHB102-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"_-Hh_3.0.9T1.LHc9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4858
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greg,

>> Seems all we need to do is to construct a high speed rotor with the
differencial voltage generators on the outer edge, rotate it at a very
high rpm (hence high acceleration), squeeze the electrons out, get a
current flow, do some work and without it seems, causing any additional
load on the rotor. <<

As an alternative could you not apply a high frequency vibration by mechanical
means to such a structure to give high acceleration with low amplitude over the
whole mass of the material, not only the periphery as in rotation?  Or would
this negate the polarization of the voltage generated?

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 02:20:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA04656; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:21:03 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:21:03 -0800 (PST)
Date: 11 Mar 97 17:14:52 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 CompuServe.COM>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Test message with nice quotes
Message-ID: <970311221452_72240.1256_EHB157-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"R2P5E1.0.e81.ChT9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4851
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Vortex has been delayed as long as a day with me. This is a test message. As
long as I am posting it, here are two nifty quotes I spotted today:

Compact flourescent lamps . . . consume 75 to 85 percent less electricity than
do incandescent ones. They typically last . . . 13 times longer than ordinary
incandescent lamps. If one balances the higher initial cost of the lamps
against the reduction in replacement parts and installation labor . . . one
can recover the cost of the flourescent lamps and still save many dollars over
the life of each lamp. One can thus make money without even counting the
savings in electricity. This is not a free lunch; it is a lunch you are paid
to eat.

- A. Fickett, "Efficient Use of Electricity," Scientific American, September
1990


. . . far spookier than the advent of Dolly [the cloned sheep] is the idea of
Congress rushing off from gee-whiz headlines into the iffy business of passing
laws about what scientists may research and whey they may not.

- Tom Teepen, Atlanta Journal, March 11, 1997, regarding legislative
initiatives to ban experiments in cloning human beings

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 02:44:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA08516; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:34:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:34:10 -0800
Message-ID: <3326936C.3494 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:58:44 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
References: <970312080534_100060.173_JHB102-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"8nbtl3.0.-42.XQe9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4859
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Norman Horwood wrote:
> 
> As an alternative could you not apply a high frequency vibration by mechanical
> means to such a structure to give high acceleration with low amplitude over the
> whole mass of the material, not only the periphery as in rotation?  Or would
> this negate the polarization of the voltage generated?
> 
> Norman

HI Norman,

I think that as long as you can get high acceleration and not destroy
the device, the Tolman effect should work.  My suggestion to use a
rotating disk was based on the fact that very high acceleration rates
can be obtained and the device is stable.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 05:16:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA17297; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:07:16 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 05:07:16 -0800
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 08:06:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970312080635_246665155 emout12.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  NO RETRACTIONS from CETI or me
Resent-Message-ID: <"BUQD93.0.BE4.3gg9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4860
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed,

It's good to read that CETI is still working on cells that produce a kilowatt
of heat.  In my opinion, XSH is the main event.

On Mar. 8, Mike Carrell posted that there were two cells at CETI's booth at
the ANS meeting last November.  He pointed out that he took photos of them
which appeared on the cover of IE No. 10.  There was also a report by Mike in
that issue of IE.

The two cells were apparently of different designs, and judging by what Mike
and Scott have said, the RIFEX cell wasn't meant to produce XSH and didn't
produce XSH; but I'm still not completely clear on the differences in how the
two cells were built and how they were operated.

Anyway, bottom line, since Cravens and Patterson are two of the best
researchers in the field, I believe their reports that they have built cells
that do produce XSH.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 06:53:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA26832; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 06:42:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 06:42:40 -0800
X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l mail.eskimo.com
From: Ed Wall <ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Explain, please.
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:42:13 +0000
Message-ID: <19970312144154.AAA14400 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"wr2mj2.0.9Z6.V3i9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4861
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

There is a general image of science in western society that holds it as an
epistemilogical bedrock upon which every other yearning for certainty can be
based.  Watching the developments in the brief but furious history of CF
does not fit well with this expectation, providing credible fodder for most
every journalist to see an appearance of befuddlement and fraud.  An
empiricist must not get caught in either extreme.  What an empiricist
believes is not as significant as what he can prove to himself and that
looking forward is what pushes the envelope.  That looking forward instead
of toward one's own beliefs means not attending to defending one's beliefs
like the typical theorist does, with the ensuing vulnerabilities suffered. 

When an explorer of new approaches receives criticism, he must react as any
human being to defend or modify his position, so the attention is no longer
directed forward.  This is not so bad because without valid criticism,
exploration can become wandering.  But, if the balance is lost, so is the
forward momentum.  Bickering over what is pure and simple in order to spare
one's ego a feeling of inferiority or insecurity is no small waste in this
arena.

Being a non-specialist, I do not have the wherewithall to know what sort of
validity may exist in what seem utterly ludicrous objections to the nuclear
signature claims by so many experimentalists.  I deal in signal to noise
ratios.  When a signal shows up with a significant decibel ratio, there is
no dispute about its existence.  How can 2nd and 3rd order calorimetry
effects explain consistent 3 order of magnitude OU?  How can 40% of the
metal in a sealed experimental apparatus changing its elemental state be
explained by non-nuclear processes?  Who can explain how xenon gas can
accumulate in relatively high concentrations in a cell, but through
transmutation?  Are all these different means of calorimetry and
spectometry, developed over so many decades in billion-dollar industries so
imprecise?  There comes a time to open your eyes, gird your loins and change
your beliefs.  Isn't it now?

It seems to me that disputing these findings should be done in preparation
of accurate replication, unless an actual flaw in the method has been seen.

The duty of the theorist is not to cling to the past.  It is to explain the
present in view of the past.  It is for the experimentalists to determine
what is actually being found as accurately as possible.  We do not have
time, nor can we take the risk, for the slugfest that hails as the true
victor whoever can pull off the slickest PR campaign.

It should be added that the classification of people into either
experimentalists or theorist is false, because we are all both with diverse
emphasis.

Ed


Complicity is the honor among politicians.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 13:43:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA13809; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:26:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:26:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33272D2F.4018 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:54:47 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------47C7CE6453"
Resent-Message-ID: <"iXliS2.0.EN3.wzn9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4863
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------47C7CE6453
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------47C7CE6453
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Message-ID: <33272B3D.3EAB microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 07:46:29 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
References: <19970312143617.AAA19555 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
> You just re-invented the "wheel" Greg. <g> I saw such a device in the literature
> many years ago. Also it was done with a "disc" filled with an electrolyte.
> Then someone put a magnetic field thru the disc (Faraday I think) and came
> up with the homopolar generator.
> 
> Los Alamos Labs hauled a 750-1000 Ton Homopolar generator up to the "Hill"
> about ten years ago. It was an engineering feat that rivaled Stonehenge. <g>
> 
> Regards,    Frederick

Hi Fredrick,

I am quite aware of the homopolar generator, as I have built several.  I
am also quite aware of the enegry flows as the current induced field in
the disk reacts with the magnets field.  However, the Tolman effect
looks different.

Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
rpm.  Close to the outer edge is a conductive ring.  The ring is
connected to one side of a elecrical load and the other side of the load
connected to the centre of the disk.  The ring will act as one side of a
capacitor, with the outer surface of the disk, the other.

As the disk rotates, excess electrons will collect on the disk's outer
surface and cause an electrical charge to be formed in the space between
the ring and the disks outer surface.

Connecting an electrical load from the ring to the centre of the
spinning disk will then allow electrons to flow.  This current flow in
the disk will generate a magnetic field, but this field will not
interact with another to cause a back drag.  It would seem that if the
disk rotated on magnetic bearings, in a sealed container with no air,
the only continual input of energy would be that required to accelerate
the electrons to the velocity of the outer edge of the disk.

Believe that would require less energy than that produced by the current
flow.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


--------------47C7CE6453--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 14:40:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA08221; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:23:56 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:23:56 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <33272CEC.15FB7483 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 14:23:40 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
References: <970312080534_100060.173_JHB102-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"uZj_E2.0.J02.wpo9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4864
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greg Watson wrote:
> 

> Seems all we need to do is to construct a high speed rotor with the
> differencial voltage generators on the outer edge, rotate it at a very
> high rpm (hence high acceleration), squeeze the electrons out, get a
> current flow, do some work and without it seems, 
> causing any additional
> load on the rotor.
> 

If you really believe this, then I think you are in for
a long life of failed attempts. 

To put things in perspective: The theory of electromagnetism 
is a conservative one. That theory is fully adequate to 
predict and describe a Tolman effect, and this effect
would in no way be able to be "over unity" in that theory.
(In fact, the article motivating the above comment was a theoretical 
discussion using classical ideas of how EM works.)
 
Thus, there is no reason to think a Tolman effect driven circuit
should lie outside the domain of standard, conservative
(non-overunity) electromagnetism. Obviously it is an experimental
question as to whether this prediction is true in our physical
universe, by my point point is that there is absolutely no
reason to think O/U would manifest itself in a Tolman circuit,
vs, say, a standard circuit with a battery and a resistor 
in it. In fact, if it were 75 years ago, I'm sure you would
be suggesting that a circuit with a capacitor and and
inductor in it might be over unity, because it does this
really cool thing where it oscillates and makes EM waves and
other things that, to you personally, seem novel. But within
EM theory, they are merely another manifestation of the
general, conservative, phenomena.

I really don't think people looking for "O/U" effects in classical
electromagnetic configurations appreciate the logical incongruity
of what they are doing....using a conservative theory to guide
you to a non-conservative experiment is no better than having
a computer program that randomly generates experimental designs.

The theory is presenting you with a zillion possible 
experimental configurations, all of which have exactly the 
same energy efficiency: 100%. So what criteria, tell me,
are you using to decide which ones are most interesting from
an O/U point of view?




-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 15:42:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA18089; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:27:34 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:27:34 -0800
Message-ID: <332742AC.87A microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:26:28 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bshannon tiac.net
CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <33272D2F.4018 microtronics.com.au> <3326DD53.64F5@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"o4jsg2.0.OQ4.Zlp9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4866
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Bob Shannon wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> 
> > Hi Fredrick,
> >
> > I am quite aware of the homopolar generator, as I have built several.  I
> > am also quite aware of the enegry flows as the current induced field in
> > the disk reacts with the magnets field.  However, the Tolman effect
> > looks different.
> >
> > Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> > rpm.  Close to the outer edge is a conductive ring.  The ring is
> > connected to one side of a elecrical load and the other side of the load
> > connected to the centre of the disk.  The ring will act as one side of a
> > capacitor, with the outer surface of the disk, the other.
> >
> > As the disk rotates, excess electrons will collect on the disk's outer
> > surface and cause an electrical charge to be formed in the space between
> > the ring and the disks outer surface.
> >
> > Connecting an electrical load from the ring to the centre of the
> > spinning disk will then allow electrons to flow.  This current flow in
> > the disk will generate a magnetic field, but this field will not
> > interact with another to cause a back drag.  It would seem that if the
> > disk rotated on magnetic bearings, in a sealed container with no air,
> > the only continual input of energy would be that required to accelerate
> > the electrons to the velocity of the outer edge of the disk.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >From what I have read, this effect only happens during acceleration or
> deceleration, but not if the disk is in uniform rotation.  You would
> ahve to start and stop the disk abruptly to use the Tolman effect.
> 
> Is this correct?  If so, the design above may not work at all.

Hi Bob,

The outer edge of the disk will be experiencing an acceleration of
3.14e8 cm/sec^2 or 320,000 g's.  Should be enough for the Tolman effect
to drag electrons from the centre of the disk to the outer edge.  Would
probably tear the disk apart as well, but what the heck, that's an
engineering problem.  Maybe a smaller disk, rotating at a slower speed
would make a better model.  Anyone know the max acceleration copper can
stand before it starts to fail?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 15:50:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA18028; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:27:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:27:27 -0800
Message-ID: <332749A7.32DF microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:56:15 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
References: <970312080534_100060.173_JHB102-1 CompuServe.COM> <33272CEC.15FB7483@math.ucla.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"dwLy21.0.bP4.Slp9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4865
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Barry Merriman wrote:
> 
> To put things in perspective: The theory of electromagnetism
> is a conservative one. That theory is fully adequate to
> predict and describe a Tolman effect, and this effect
> would in no way be able to be "over unity" in that theory.
> (In fact, the article motivating the above comment was a theoretical
> discussion using classical ideas of how EM works.)

Where did I say that the Tolman effect device I proposed would relate to
EM?  This is NOT a homopolar generator.  There are NO magnetic field
interactions involved in the generation of the current flow.  While the
current flow would produce a magnetic field, magnetic field and
conductor interactions are not the source of the current flow.  I
suggest you read my post fully before you jump in too quickly.

> Thus, there is no reason to think a Tolman effect driven circuit
> should lie outside the domain of standard, conservative
> (non-overunity) electromagnetism. Obviously it is an experimental
> question as to whether this prediction is true in our physical
> universe, by my point point is that there is absolutely no
> reason to think O/U would manifest itself in a Tolman circuit,
> vs, say, a standard circuit with a battery and a resistor
> in it. In fact, if it were 75 years ago, I'm sure you would
> be suggesting that a circuit with a capacitor and and
> inductor in it might be over unity, because it does this
> really cool thing where it oscillates and makes EM waves and
> other things that, to you personally, seem novel. But within
> EM theory, they are merely another manifestation of the
> general, conservative, phenomena.

Just because I don't have a PHD doesn't mean that I can't think.  You
seem to enjoy putting people down.  Sorry Barry, I don't have any public
sex scandals for you to dig up.  I don't appreciate your sarcism or
closed mind.  How about instead of trying to make me seem simple, you
spend some of your superior brain power on looking at the energy flows
in this proposal.

> I really don't think people looking for "O/U" effects in classical
> electromagnetic configurations appreciate the logical incongruity
> of what they are doing....using a conservative theory to guide
> you to a non-conservative experiment is no better than having
> a computer program that randomly generates experimental designs.

Can you explain current drop in the Rod & Coil experiment?

> The theory is presenting you with a zillion possible
> experimental configurations, all of which have exactly the
> same energy efficiency: 100%. So what criteria, tell me,
> are you using to decide which ones are most interesting from
> an O/U point of view?

Hi Barry,

Have you studied, or even read, the 12 points of operational
characteristics in my DNMEC generator post of last week?  Can you tell
me, being the simple fool I am, where I have gone wrong?  Please Barry,
show me where I am wrong.  Put me out of my misery.  Or better still put
me in my place.  Or even better still, open up your mind.  Think outside
of the square.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 16:19:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA01631; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:02:41 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:02:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33274444.72F6 interlaced.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:03:16 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <33272D2F.4018 microtronics.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"hiauA.0.PP.UGq9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4867
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greg Watson wrote:
> 
(snip) 
> Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> rpm.

This will never happen, Greg.  V = r x omega, so your "rim" velocity
would be 3140 meters/second.  The strongest of metals are limited to
wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.
(Ref. Scott Little).

I think the equation you want is:

	volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)

Now, m/e for the electron is about 5.68 x 10^-12 kg/coulomb, and, if
you could get 3140 meters/sec for V, your voltage would be:

	volts = .5 x 5.68 x 10^-10 x 3140^2 = 28 x 10^-6 volts.

But, you could really only get about (500/3140)^2 of the above, or
about 0.71 microvolts.  Now, any electrical work you got out you would
have to put in to "sling" the mass of the electrons up to rim speed!
After all, you're getting the volts from the inertia of the electrons
and, in this generator, they will act just like the water in a
centrifugal pump - no free lunch.

But, don't despair - the fact that this concept gives any voltage at
all makes me proud to be a mechanical engineer!  It's a GAS!

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 16:32:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA03149; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:16:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:16:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
Cc: vortex-L eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 00:16:07 +0000
Message-ID: <19970313001605.AAA14344 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"yzkSz2.0.6n.eTq9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4868
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 12:49 AM 3/13/97 +0000, Greg Watson wrote:
>
>Hi Frederick,
>
>I got 320,000 g's.  Still, way over the top.
>
Your copper wheel, "one meter diameter and 0.1 meter thick turning at 60,000
rpm."

Multiples of "g" = 1.42E-5 * D*N^2 = 0.75 * (V^2/D)

Where D is the diameter in inches, N is rpm, V is peripheral speed ft/sec.

Thus for a one meter dia.: 1.42E-5 * 39.37" * 60,000^2 = 2,000,000 g's at
nearly 10,000 ft/sec (3.1415 km/sec) you are at 2/7 of earth escape
velocity. <G>

Best Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 17:18:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA08736; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:01:20 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:01:20 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:01:12 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703130101.TAA24530 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Tolman Effect]
Resent-Message-ID: <"9GcDY1.0.O82.U7r9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4869
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 19:03 3/12/97 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:

> The strongest of metals are limited to
>wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.
>(Ref. Scott Little).

yeah...that's if you wanted to stand next to it.  could go maybe 1.5X higher
before breaking.

>I think the equation you want is:
>
>	volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)

I'm impressed Frank, I thought you had this wrong for a minute but then I
realized that force per unit charge is the effective electric electric field
strength...which has to be integrated from 0 to r to get the total voltage.
I did so (letting MathCAD do all the work) and got precisely the same answer
you did....28.06 microvolts!

Mechanical Engineers Rule!

P.S. I agree that, if you let electrons flow out the rim, through a
resistor, and back into the center of such a disk you'd have to drive the
disk to make up for the angular momentum "consumed" by the continual flow of
mass from center to rim.

As Barry has said several times, there's no fruit at the end of a search
through classical mechanics or electromagnetics for excess energy.  If you
think you've found it in there, you've made a mistake.  If you have a
computer that tells you its there, then the computer has made a mistake.

Our main hope lies in examining experimental results which do not fit the
predicitions of classical mechanics...and in "new" theories.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 17:25:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA09870; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:10:58 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:10:58 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <332761FB.4AF8 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:40:03 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2E284E24872"
Resent-Message-ID: <"u-rd3.0.7Q2.UGr9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4870
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------2E284E24872
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------2E284E24872
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Message-ID: <332761BD.24C8 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:39:01 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: fstenger interlaced.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <33272D2F.4018 microtronics.com.au> <33274444.72F6@interlaced.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> > Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> > rpm.
> 
> This will never happen, Greg.  V = r x omega, so your "rim" velocity
> would be 3140 meters/second.  The strongest of metals are limited to
> wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.

Sounds good to me.

> (Ref. Scott Little).
> 
> I think the equation you want is:
> 
>         volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)

As the Tolman effect is caused by acceleration,
shouldn't we use acceleration here?                    2e7 m/sec^2

> Now, m/e for the electron is about 5.68 x 10^-12 kg/coulomb, and, if
> you could get 3140 meters/sec for V, your voltage would be:
> 
>         volts = .5 x 5.68 x 10^-10 x 3140^2 = 28 x 10^-6 volts.

Shouldn't it be                                 28 x 10^-4 volts.

> But, you could really only get about (500/3140)^2 of the above, or
> about 0.71 microvolts.  Now, any electrical work you got out you would
> have to put in to "sling" the mass of the electrons up to rim speed!
> After all, you're getting the volts from the inertia of the electrons
> and, in this generator, they will act just like the water in a
> centrifugal pump - no free lunch.
> 
> But, don't despair - the fact that this concept gives any voltage at
> all makes me proud to be a mechanical engineer!  It's a GAS!
> 
> Frank Stenger

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


--------------2E284E24872--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 17:26:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA03485; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:11:11 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:11:11 -0800
Message-ID: <332761EC.5694 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:39:48 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1AD79673D92"
Resent-Message-ID: <"UwgE23.0.Is.jGr9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4871
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------1AD79673D92
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------1AD79673D92
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Message-ID: <33275B2B.4959 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:10:59 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: fstenger interlaced.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <33272D2F.4018 microtronics.com.au> <33274444.72F6@interlaced.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> > Imagine a copper disk 1 mtr in dia, 0.1 mtr thick, rotating at 60,000
> > rpm.
> 
> This will never happen, Greg.  V = r x omega, so your "rim" velocity
> would be 3140 meters/second.  The strongest of metals are limited to
> wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.
> (Ref. Scott Little).
> 
> I think the equation you want is:
> 
>         volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)
> 
> Now, m/e for the electron is about 5.68 x 10^-12 kg/coulomb, and, if
> you could get 3140 meters/sec for V, your voltage would be:
> 
>         volts = .5 x 5.68 x 10^-10 x 3140^2 = 28 x 10^-6 volts.
> 
> But, you could really only get about (500/3140)^2 of the above, or
> about 0.71 microvolts.  Now, any electrical work you got out you would
> have to put in to "sling" the mass of the electrons up to rim speed!
> After all, you're getting the volts from the inertia of the electrons
> and, in this generator, they will act just like the water in a
> centrifugal pump - no free lunch.
> 
> But, don't despair - the fact that this concept gives any voltage at
> all makes me proud to be a mechanical engineer!  It's a GAS!
> 
> Frank Stenger

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the info, but its not rim velocity that drives the electrons,
its acceleration.  In the config I suggested this is about 2,000,000
g's.  Think the voltage generated will be greater than you show.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile



--------------1AD79673D92--



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 10:07:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA19362; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703121748.AA02659 gateway1.srs.gov>
Alternate-Recipient: prohibited
Disclose-Recipients: prohibited
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:24:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kirk L Shanahan <kirk.shanahan srs.gov>
Subject: Re: Explain, please
To: Private_User srs.gov
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:40:00 -0400 (EDT)
Importance: normal
Priority: normal
A1-Type: MAIL
Hop-Count: 2
Resent-Message-ID: <"EdL011.0.Mk4.8qk9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4862
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Since Ed asked for an explanation...  (text inside "" "" is Ed's text)

""There is a general image of science in western society that holds it as an
epistemilogical bedrock upon which every other yearning for certainty can be
based."" 

The general populace may feel that way, but there are other thoughts on the 
subject.  I find Bauer's book 'Scientific Literacy and the Myth of the 
Scientific Method' very useful, and I will base most of my following 
comments on my general agreement with Bauer's presentation.


""Watching the developments in the brief but furious history of CF
does not fit well with this expectation, providing credible fodder for most
every journalist to see an appearance of befuddlement and fraud.""

Yes, they are promoters of stereotypical views, although sometimes they will 
promote an 'alternative stereotype'.  Descriptions of actual real-world 
occurrences often do not fit stereotypes, and because of that the reports 
can be slanted for maximal impact on the audience.

In fact, the CF story is a typical one except in one respect, the promise of 
"infinite energy".  That raised the stakes and attracted the attention of 
many, many scientists, when it is more typical to be involved in work that 
is of interest to just a few and not nearly so interesting to the general 
public.

""An empiricist must not get caught in either extreme.""

Except that many empiricists defend their work as unassailable as vigorously 
as any theoretician, and many theoreticians are not locked into their own 
beliefs.  So your comment is a statement of your personal belief, obviously 
not shared by many...

""What an empiricist believes is not as significant as what he can prove to 
himself and that looking forward is what pushes the envelope.  That looking 
forward instead of toward one's own beliefs means not attending to defending 
one's beliefs like the typical theorist does, with the ensuing 
vulnerabilities suffered.""

That's an interesting point of view, but I get a bit confused while reading 
it.  I think I'll pass on a more direct comment...

""When an explorer of new approaches receives criticism, he must react as 
any human being to defend or modify his position, so the attention is no 
longer directed forward.  This is not so bad because without valid 
criticism, exploration can become wandering.""

True, but in Bauer's context the only way the unknown can be discovered is 
by wandering, or by a serendipitous recognition of a previously unrecognized 
fact.  (I always recall the discovery of penicillin here.  Fleming worked 
out why molds killed bacterial cultures as we all know, but did you know 
that the procedures of the day for preparing bacterial cultures warned 
against mold contamination because they were known to kill the bacteria?)

Your comment is most relevant to the pursuit of the "known unknown", i.e. 
the filling in of holes in the knowledge base that are recognized to exist.
Knowledge of the unknown can and does come from anyone, anytime, and 
anywhere.  However, the pursuer of the "known unknown" most often is a prior 
practitioner of a closely related endeavor, and if he/she is 'wandering', 
then they need to be refocused through constructive criticism, because 
implicit in classifying the work as "known unknown" is the assumption that 
it can be clarified (and recategorized as "known") through research.

In either case, the final key is reproducibility, because so many times 
error is the true cause of the new observation.  Reproducing the observation 
elsewhere helps to establish that a particular researcher or research group 
has in fact discovered a new fact.

""But, if the balance is lost, so is the forward momentum.  Bickering over 
what is pure and simple in order to spare one's ego a feeling of inferiority 
or insecurity is no small waste in this arena.""

The is absolutely true.  My own experiences have taught me that most people 
try to view a situation in a 'binary' fashion.  It is, or it isn't.  That 
almost always leads to picking sides and becoming entrenched, which in turn 
usually wastes everyone's time.  Conscious recognition of the fact that 
there is a third alternative available is required.  That third alternative 
is:  "We don't know, there is insufficient conclusive data to decide, we 
need to get more, good data."  I have personally observed how standing up in 
a bickering contest and saying that causes everyone to stop and think, which 
is a highly recommended practice.

Also, losing forward momentum is good if you are heading for a cliff.

""Being a non-specialist, I do not have the wherewithal to know what sort of 
validity may exist in what seem utterly ludicrous objections to the nuclear 
signature claims by so many experimentalists.""


Now, now.  "Non-specialist" status doesn't confer the right to assign the 
label "utterly ludicrous".


""I deal in signal to noise ratios.  When a signal shows up with a 
significant decibel ratio, there is no dispute about its existence.""

To be technically correct, you must realize that you imply that the detected 
signal is distinguishable from error.  That requires a solid knowledge of 
the magnitude and the rate of occurrence of the errors of the technique 
applied, in all aspects of implementation.  


""How can 2nd and 3rd order calorimetry effects explain consistent 3 order 
of magnitude OU?""

Hmmm...that of course would be the intent of a publication or posting that 
purports to explain how that could happen.  I would have to say that you 
would need to read and study the given claim in detail to understand it.

""How can 40% of the metal in a sealed experimental apparatus changing its 
elemental state be explained by non-nuclear processes?""

You refer to the Miley/Patterson paper I gather.  How it can happen is that 
the experimental error (i.e. reproducibility) seems to be on the order of 
the sample size itself.  Thus 40% is less than 1 standard deviation, and in 
fact the conclusion I would draw is that no change has occurred.  


""Who can explain how xenon gas can accumulate in relatively high 
concentrations in a cell, but through transmutation?""

Who?  Anyone who can demonstrate a contamination route...  

(Contamination is the 'generic' explanation of any unexpected appearances, 
including novel new molecular arrangements not even involving 
transmutations.  Normally the researchers then try to identify and eliminate 
contamination sources, just as Miley and Patterson did, and/or produce the 
new material in bulk and as a major product through the application of good 
synthetic chemical technology.  Trying to work at trace levels is an 
exercise requiring lots and lots of time, money, and patience.)

Technically speaking however, when researchers propose an idea (such as 
transmutation) to explain their results, and an apparently viable 
counter-explanation is proposed, it is normally taken as the job of the 
original proponents to differentiate.  That is why people who presume 
publication is the end of the road are incorrect.  It "should" be taken as a 
request to fellow researchers to note the work and see if they agree.  It 
"should" be taken as a direct request for criticism from that one guy who 
spots what is wrong.  After all, all human beings are fallible.  But humans 
are humans, and many don't adhere to those "should"s.


""Are all these different means of calorimetry and spectometry, developed 
over so many decades in billion-dollar industries so imprecise?""

Usually not when used in the exact manner in which they were designed or 
proven.  However, applying a technology to a new situation always opens the 
door to the chance that the application is incorrect in that case.


""There comes a time to open your eyes, gird your loins and change your 
beliefs.  Isn't it now?""

It would be if the evidence is compelling.  This usually takes time to 
establish, and reproductions to ascertain.

""It seems to me that disputing these findings should be done in preparation
of accurate replication, unless an actual flaw in the method has been 
seen.""

I would say rather that accurate replication with contrasting results is the 
strongest form of disputation.  People being what they are, anyone can 
dispute anything, as we all can see by watching lawsuits for awhile.  In the 
ideal world, researchers would only dispute when they had good cause (which 
_is_ a value judgment of course), and that wouldn't require experimentation 
per se.

""The duty of the theorist is not to cling to the past.  It is to explain 
the present in view of the past.  It is for the experimentalists to 
determine what is actually being found as accurately as possible.""  

Hmm...see my comments at the end...

""We do not have time, nor can we take the risk, for the slugfest that hails 
as the true victor whoever can pull off the slickest PR campaign.""

Here, here, but, unfortunately, PR tends to get funding, so we're probably 
stuck with it...

""It should be added that the classification of people into either
experimentalists or theorist is false, because we are all both with diverse
emphasis.""

I agree completely.  That's why I had so much trouble with that passages I 
noted above.  On any given day, any given researcher can be functioning as a 
theorist or an experimentalist or both.  The terms are really not helpful 
except as stereotypes, which of course are used by people who don't want to 
think and understand.

The purpose of theory (not theoreticians) is to provide a framework that 
explains natural occurrences in a given situation with some degree of 
accuracy, thereby providing a measure of predictive power in related 
situations.  The purpose of experiment (not experimentalists) is to provide 
accurate observations, which can either be used to validate a theory, 
invalidate a theory, or stimulate a new theory.  Human fallibility means 
that neither is achieved to perfection.

Kirk Shanahan  {{My opinions...noone else's}}

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 17:29:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA03990; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:14:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:14:06 -0800
Message-ID: <332762AC.5F02 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:43:00 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CF72C912D27"
Resent-Message-ID: <"bLF6Z3.0.2-.PJr9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4872
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------CF72C912D27
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------CF72C912D27
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Message-ID: <33275989.5803 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:04:01 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
References: <19970313001605.AAA14344 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
> At 12:49 AM 3/13/97 +0000, Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> >Hi Frederick,
> >
> >I got 320,000 g's.  Still, way over the top.
> >
> Your copper wheel, "one meter diameter and 0.1 meter thick turning at 60,000
> rpm."
> 
> Multiples of "g" = 1.42E-5 * D*N^2 = 0.75 * (V^2/D)
> 
> Where D is the diameter in inches, N is rpm, V is peripheral speed ft/sec.
> 
> Thus for a one meter dia.: 1.42E-5 * 39.37" * 60,000^2 = 2,000,000 g's at
> nearly 10,000 ft/sec (3.1415 km/sec) you are at 2/7 of earth escape
> velocity. <G>
> 
> Best Regards,    Frederick

Hi Frederick,

You are right, I slipped a digit or something on my calculator.

I work in KMS systems.  I first of all calculated centriputal force
using :

f = mv^2/r.

Where f = Newtons,
      m = 1kg (on the outer edge),
      v = 3.1416e3 m/sec
      r = 0.5 m

Result is 19.7e7 Newtons or a centriputal force of 1,979,000 kgs.  As I
started with 1kg mass on the edge, I assumed an apparent acceleration of
1,979,000 g's.  Seems we now agree.  Well, at least on the maths.  Me
thinks me should use a somewhat smaller model.

Thanks for the math lesson.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile



--------------CF72C912D27--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 17:57:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA08735; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:40:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:40:53 -0800
Message-ID: <33275B3D.5D68 interlaced.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:41:17 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <33272D2F.4018 microtronics.com.au> <33274444.72F6@interlaced.net> <33275B2B.4959@microtronics.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"NAqOm2.0.O82.air9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4873
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greg Watson wrote:
> 
(snip)
Frank gave the equation:

> >         volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)
> >

> Thanks for the info, but its not rim velocity that drives the electrons,
> its acceleration.  In the config I suggested this is about 2,000,000
> g's.  Think the voltage generated will be greater than you show.
> 
Greg, you are correct - it is the centrifugal acceleration that does
the job.  Designers that work with rotating "wheels" at high speed often
use tangential velocity as a rotational parameter because the maximum
"rim" speed of, say, a flywheel, is a direct function of the allowable
stress in the wheel material - using rim speed is only a convienence.
If you tell me that you want to rotate a metal wheel at 60,000 rpm, I
say OK, thats 6280 radians/second.  I know that radius x rad/sec is
limited to about 600 meters/sec (a rim speed), so I divide 600 m/s
by 6280 /s and get 0.0955 meters or 9.55 cm as the maximum radius you
can use for your wheel.

As for my equation above, I can write V as r x omega, or, I can write
V^2 as r x (r x omega^2).

So, the equation becomes:

	volts = 0.5 x (m/e) x r x (r x omega^2).

But, (r x omega^2) IS the centrifugal acceleration of the rim - so the
equation is about acceleration.

Greg, this is not MY equation - I got it from a good old ref. that
discusses the Tolman effect in detail!  It's friendly fire!  the effect
is there!  It's just not very big, thats all.  After all, a coulomb
of electrons only has mass of 5.68 x 10^-12 kilograms!  

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 18:02:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA13906; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:45:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:45:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33276A0F.3B47 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:14:31 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect and DNMEC
References: <199703130101.TAA24530 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------44754C593F7E"
Resent-Message-ID: <"7XKWB3.0.7P3.8nr9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4874
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------44754C593F7E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Scott Little wrote:
> 
> At 19:03 3/12/97 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> > The strongest of metals are limited to
> >wheels with a tangential velocity of about 500 to 600 meters per second.
> >(Ref. Scott Little).
> 
> yeah...that's if you wanted to stand next to it.  could go maybe 1.5X higher
> before breaking.
> 
> >I think the equation you want is:
> >
> >       volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)
> 
> I'm impressed Frank, I thought you had this wrong for a minute but then I
> realized that force per unit charge is the effective electric electric field
> strength...which has to be integrated from 0 to r to get the total voltage.
> I did so (letting MathCAD do all the work) and got precisely the same answer
> you did....28.06 microvolts!
> 
> Mechanical Engineers Rule!
> 
> P.S. I agree that, if you let electrons flow out the rim, through a
> resistor, and back into the center of such a disk you'd have to drive the
> disk to make up for the angular momentum "consumed" by the continual flow of
> mass from center to rim.
> 
> As Barry has said several times, there's no fruit at the end of a search
> through classical mechanics or electromagnetics for excess energy.  If you
> think you've found it in there, you've made a mistake.  If you have a
> computer that tells you its there, then the computer has made a mistake.
> 
> Our main hope lies in examining experimental results which do not fit the
> predicitions of classical mechanics...and in "new" theories.

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the input.  Your and Frank's comments are what I would expect
of you Vortexians although I find the predicted EMF generated to be much
smaller than I would have expected.

As for new theories, please comment on the 12 points of operational
characteristics of my DNMEC generator operation.  I do see a real
reduction in current drawn by the driving motor as I short the output
coil.  I ask for your and other's input as to wheather my theory of what
is happening is valid.

I have included the post I sent some time ago.

Hi All,

I have been asked by many people to re-explain the DNMEC effect.

Will here goes.

The DNMEC generator I am working on is a modification of a flux gate
design where you have a magnetic circuit comprising of a magnet, coil,
air gap, moving ferromagnetic flux gate and ferromagnetic material
linking in all together in a "C" shape as below :


              |---------------------------------------|
          >---|  Rotating Drive Shaft (Non FerroMag)  |---< Axis of
rotation
              |---------------------------------------|
                             |        |
                             |        |  < Connecting Arm (Non Ferro)
                             |        |
                  |------------------------------|
                  |   FerroMagnetic Flux Gate    |
                  |                              |
                  |---------|          |---------|
                            |          |
                  |--------||----------|
|-----------------|        |            |--------|---------------|
|                 |        |            | Neo Dym|               |
|                 | Coil   |  Air Gap   | Magnet |               |
|       |---------|        |            |--------|-------|       |
|       |         |--------|                             |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |                                                |       |
|       |------------------------------------------------|       |
|                                                                |
|           Ferromagnetic Core Material                          |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|

A functional description follows:

1) As the flux gate rotates toward the air gap, flux density in the
core increases due to the approaching flux gate reducing the reluctance
(magnetic resistance) of the air gap.

2) As the core flux is changing, an emf will be induced in the coil.

3) As the coil is shorted, the induced emf will produce a current flow.

4) The coil's current flow will produce a magnetic field in the coil
which will oppose the increasing coil and core flux.

5) Due to the position of the magnet and coil adjacent to the air gap,
the opposing coil flux will increase the flux density outside of
the air gap in the region occupied by the flux gate.  This is one
of the new effects necessary of the DNMEC effect to work.  It is easily
proven.

6) As the ferrite flux gate is outside of the air gap and its
ferromagnetic force of attraction is related to the flux density,
the flux gate will experience increased attraction into the air
gap.  This is only easily proven.

7) In all other flux gate designs known to me, the flux gate
will, at this point, experience reduced attraction due to the
mmf sources (coil and magnet) being buried (not adjacent to the
air gap) and air gap flux density reducing.

8) The increased attraction will be sensed by the drive motor as a
reduction in necessary drive torque and hence a reduction in drive 
motor current.

9) It is my observing drive motor current that I am attempting
to design a simple to build unit which will produce in excess of
a 10% reduction in drive current.  This design will be available to
any and all.

10) In my current designs, if the flux gate enters the air gap, the
effect dies and turns into a normal non OU flux gate generator.

11) In my opinion, the extra energy sources are the stiff aligned
domains in the Neo Dym Magnet and the soft aligned domains in the
moving flux gate.

I have verified each of the above steps (except 11) through other
testing, some of which I have posted here.  I can re-post any of
the Gifs which show each of the steps happening.

My testing to date has produced a 2-3% reduction in drive current and
my latest unit (the fifth) should produce at least 10-15%.

I invite all to critique the above on any basis you choose, just
don't reject it as rubbish without a fair hearing.  Give it a fair go!

All I ask for is your open mind.

Remember,  "None of us is as smart as ALL of us".

Good thinking.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------44754C593F7E
Content-Type: image/gif; name="genver4.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="genver4.gif"
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--------------44754C593F7E--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 18:20:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA11239; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:55:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:55:05 -0800
Message-ID: <33276C44.7E88 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:23:56 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: fstenger interlaced.net
CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <33272D2F.4018 microtronics.com.au> <33274444.72F6@interlaced.net> <33275B2B.4959@microtronics.com.au> <33275B3D.5D68@interlaced.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"oYn_H2.0.Wl2.tvr9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4875
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> Frank gave the equation:
> 
> > >         volts_shaft-to-rim = (m/2e, for electrons) x V^2  (V=rim speed)
> > >
> 
> > Thanks for the info, but its not rim velocity that drives the electrons,
> > its acceleration.  In the config I suggested this is about 2,000,000
> > g's.  Think the voltage generated will be greater than you show.
> >
> Greg, you are correct - it is the centrifugal acceleration that does
> the job.  Designers that work with rotating "wheels" at high speed often
> use tangential velocity as a rotational parameter because the maximum
> "rim" speed of, say, a flywheel, is a direct function of the allowable
> stress in the wheel material - using rim speed is only a convienence.
> If you tell me that you want to rotate a metal wheel at 60,000 rpm, I
> say OK, thats 6280 radians/second.  I know that radius x rad/sec is
> limited to about 600 meters/sec (a rim speed), so I divide 600 m/s
> by 6280 /s and get 0.0955 meters or 9.55 cm as the maximum radius you
> can use for your wheel.
> 
> As for my equation above, I can write V as r x omega, or, I can write
> V^2 as r x (r x omega^2).
> 
> So, the equation becomes:
> 
>         volts = 0.5 x (m/e) x r x (r x omega^2).
> 
> But, (r x omega^2) IS the centrifugal acceleration of the rim - so the
> equation is about acceleration.
> 
> Greg, this is not MY equation - I got it from a good old ref. that
> discusses the Tolman effect in detail!  It's friendly fire!  the effect
> is there!  It's just not very big, thats all.  After all, a coulomb
> of electrons only has mass of 5.68 x 10^-12 kilograms!
> 
> Frank Stenger

Hi Frank,

Thanks for being my mentor on this.  I am an electronics engineer with a
lot of real world, dirty fingernail experience in magnetics.  The Tolman
effect is not my field.  Just thought it was an interesting effect to
discuss.  

What's your comment on the 12 points of the DNMEC operational
characteristics?  The drive motor current reduction when the output coil
is shorted is real.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 18:22:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA16449; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:07:36 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:07:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Tolman Effect
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 02:07:00 +0000
Message-ID: <19970313020658.AAA25912 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"eLo8q2.0.w04.b5s9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4876
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greg:

Somewhere in this discussion I got the impression that you figured on
throwing the electrons off the rim of the flywheel. 

Field emission of elecrons from a metal requires intensities of 1.0E8 to
1.0E10 volts/meter. With a force q*E a point at 100 angstroms distance from
a copper plate with one volt on it would give a force of, q*E = 1.6E-19*10^8
=1.6E-11 nt.
With the 4.1 ev work function of copper it seems to me to be a difficult
task as opposed to Tolmans experiment of moving the electrons about in a
rotating-decelerating copper coil.

I'm not nitpicking here, just fishing for a reason why intuition questions
the  rubbing free electrons off of an insulator as in electrostatics.
Same thing can be done on combing one's hair on dry days.

Seems to me that the thought by the leading scientists (before cathode rays
were discovered about a century ago) that the rubbing of materials actually
created the "electrons" that were observed, seems a bit more tractable. 

Subtle hint about creation of light electron-positron pairs etc. <G>

I vote to let Frank Stenger calculate how much force is given to an electron
on a glass plate being gently rubbed with a silk handkerchief, or a sulphur
"globe" turning against the fingertips. <g>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 19:00:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA19541; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:47:39 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:47:39 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33276AF4.2EDF interlaced.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:48:20 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect]
References: <199703130101.TAA24530 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"7Yj5v.0.Fn4.8hs9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4877
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 
(snip)

> Our main hope lies in examining experimental results which do not fit the
> predicitions of classical mechanics...and in "new" theories.

Scott, what this country needs is a good 5-cent mass-to-clean-energy
converter!

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 20:14:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA31267; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:00:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:00:22 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970313040354.00b2b818 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:03:54 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Fogal Transistor Information
Resent-Message-ID: <"olRoA.0.Pe7.Klt9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4878
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

There is a source now for information on the Fogal Transistor:

http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/fogal_device/

These pages are very new and so they do not yet contain some 
new photos on the way, showing scope comparisons of Bill Fogal's 
transistor to a normal transistor.  I do not yet know the details 
on what control was used, or the frequencies, etc.

Gary Hawkins 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 20:18:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA32434; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:05:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:05:26 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970313040951.00b39dd8 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:09:51 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Test message with nice quotes
Resent-Message-ID: <"sC03K2.0.iw7.5qt9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4879
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 05:14 PM 3/11/97 EST:
>To: Vortex
>
>Vortex has been delayed as long as a day with me. 

That was due to a hard drive crash on the server affecting mail 
for several hours, with the resulting backlog and catch up 
phase that always follows such a problem.  Little was lost, 
but much delayed.

Gary Hawkins

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 12 23:23:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA24820; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 23:13:11 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 23:13:11 -0800
Message-ID: <3327B6AB.4C01 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:41:23 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, Barry Merriman <barry@math.ucla.edu>
CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC mark 4
References: <970312080534_100060.173_JHB102-1 CompuServe.COM> <33272CEC.15FB7483@math.ucla.edu> <332749A7.32DF@microtronics.com.au> <33279C6E.1CFBAE39@math.ucla.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"l1bzy1.0.j36.5aw9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4880
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Barry Merriman wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> 
> > Have you studied, or even read, the 12 points of operational
> > characteristics in my DNMEC generator post of last week?
> 
> Yes, I read them. Unfortunately, I don;t really get the
> point of what you are trying to do. So you claim to
> have found a 1-2% reduction in torque under some
> conditions. I'm a bit dense, you'll
> need to tell me what you plan to do with this.

Hi Barry,

Many variations of flux gate generators have been around for years, some
have even claimed OU operation.  Being involved in designing switchmode
power supplies, I have always been interested in ferromagnetic systems
and the characteristics of soft ferrites.  

I investigated several flux gate design in detail and came to a very
good understanding of the electromagnetic physics behind the
functionality they displayed.  I also came to understand why they could
never go OU.  This data I shared with the freenrg group as we discussed
various existing designs and I expalined in length why they are not OU
devices.  

I then put together a model of a OU flux gate generator from the view
point of the operational charateristics one would observe if such a
beast existed.

One of the main problems in flux gate generators is the fact that as the
flux gate approaches the air gap and system flux density increases, the
coil generated opposing flux reduces the force of ferromagnetic
attraction into the gap and increases in on the way out.  Nothing new
here, just most of the flux gate OU fans didn't understand this.

For a flux gate generator to go OU one would need the force of
ferromagnetic attraction to increase as the flux gate enters the air gap
and reduce as it leaves.  Therefore driving torque would reduce.  If one
could get the sum of the increased entering attraction and the reduced
leaving attraction to overcome the frictional losses in the driving
system, the generator would self power.  From that point on, it would
generate usable electrical and rotary energy.

In most other flux gate designs, the MMF sources (magnet & coil) are
buried.  By this I mean that they are not adjacent to the air gap and
are connected to the air gap by ferromagnetic material.  This
ferromagnetic material with its soft domain alignments affects the flux
chracteristics in the necessary air gap.  

Under the buried config, air gap flux density will reduce in response to
a opposing coil flux caused by the system flux density going up as the
flux gate approaches the air gap (reducing reluctance in the gap).  This
reducing air gap flux density is what causes the ferromagnetic force of
attraction in normal flux gate systems to reduce as the flux gate enters
the gap and current is flowing in the output coil.  Its expalins why
they can't go OU.  Here mother nature wins.

In the DNMEC config, the MMF sources (magnet & coil) are located
adjacent to the air gap.  This location is vital to get the DNMEC effect
to work.  As the flux gate now again approaches the air gap, gap
reluctance falls and system flux rises.  The coil produces an opposing
flux against this rising flux.  Unlike the buried config where gsp flux
falls, it now increases (well not in the gap, but just outside of it)
and as the flux gate ferrite is in the position of increased flux
density, it experiences increased atrraction into the gap and reduced
attraction out of the gap.  Motor torque drops and so to does motor
current.

This effect (increased flux density on opposing flux fields) only exists
outside the air gap between the poles of the MMF sources (I have
verified this via QField and actual testing).  If the flux gate is
allowed to enter the gap, the effect dies.  This is another reason why
existing flux gate designs don't go OU.  As the effect only seems to
occur outside the gap, gap reluctance variations are small as opposed to
allowing the flux gate to fully go into the gap.  The resulting coil
induced EMF swings are also small and helps to explain why the current
reduction I see are noisy and small.

I have been able to produce a 2-3% reduction (down 4-6ma on a 250 ma
load), but it is still noisy and bounces around.  I have almost finished
building my fifth model, which I have designed to reduce frictional
losses as much as possible, to lift the signal to noise ratio of the
test system.

I am asking for your and other's input to check my thinking process.  I
have been wrong before and will be again.  The effect looks real, I
think I understand what is going on and why.  I know you and others
don't believe magnetic based OU is possible.  This may seem strange, but
so do I.

Its the shivers running up and down my back as I short the output coil
and watch the drive motor currenr fall that keeps me at this.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 00:36:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA04497; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 00:26:30 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 00:26:30 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3327C563.72A5 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:44:11 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: [Fwd: Forget Hamel's Spinner, Try This]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------34B42D48736"
Resent-Message-ID: <"pw3au3.0.561.nex9p" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4881
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------34B42D48736
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------34B42D48736
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Message-ID: <3327C524.3B7D microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:43:08 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Forget Hamel's Spinner, Try This
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

Forget Hamel's Spinner.  Check out Patent 4,443,776, David Cunningham,
Rotary Magnet Device.  It's a permanent magnet motor that looks like it
should work.  It produces a contiguous "B" field using permanent magnets
(something I thought, until today, wasn't possible).  It even claims to
rotate in the claim section.  Construction is simple, but not easy to
quickly duplicate.  Lets see who can duplicate it first.

Comments?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


--------------34B42D48736--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 05:42:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA02690; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 05:31:07 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 05:31:07 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703131321.OAA34618 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:09:00 CET
Subject: Finsrud perpetuum mobile
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"bH0hW3.0.yf.O60Ap" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4883
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Just for the record:

I visited Finsrud in September and saw his perpetuum mobile, and he told me 
about his research and his ideas. I wrote an article about the experience 
in some magazine. Here is a short recap:

The machine contains four pendulums, many permanent magnets, quartz powder, 
a steel ball, some springs and levers and little else. It is to some degree 
made from scrap materials. The lower part of an office chair is a central 
element of the machine. 

The machine is set into motion by hand. This doesnt require a lot of 
energy, but it requires a lot of attempts before it will run properly.
The machine would first run for approximately 14 days before it stopped. As 
it is getting worn, it will now run for approximately 7 days before it 
stops. 

The friction is considerable, and the power used to overcome friction can 
be estimated to 0.03 Watt. The energy stored in the pendulums and the steel 
ball could be of the order of 10 J. The energy used to overcome friction 
during a 14 day period is orders of magnitude above the estimated stored 
energy. Apparently the machine contains an unknown source of free energy.

Apparently no fraud is involved.

Finsrud is intelligent but not a physicist. He doesnt know exactly why the 
machine works. He developed the machine by trial and error. He started with 
a central pendulum with many magnets, and added levers, springs, magnets, 
etc, (more or less at random) until it worked. He believes it is a free 
energy machine similar to the Johnson permanent magnet motor.

Finsrud thinks one should research permanent magnet motors. He doesnt think 
his particular perpetuum mobile is a good object of research, or something 
one should rebuild. It is difficult to build, difficult to operate, wears 
down, doesnt produce any significant output power, and is difficult to use 
for experiments to increase understanding of  the phenomenon, but never the 
less it is an impressive machine demonstrating that there is an unusual 
phenomenon.

Regards, Anders








From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 06:48:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA10853; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 04:26:19 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 04:26:19 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net> (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net>)
Subject: Oscillating Superconductors?
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:25:43 +0000
Message-ID: <19970313122541.AAA18684 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"wjOEn2.0.Rf2.g9_9p" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4882
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

When I was attending Signal Corps School in 1950-51 at Fort Monmouth N.J. We
were told by an instructor that there were little "doughnuts" of
superconducting wire at LHe temperatures that had been oscillating for years.

What would be the frequency of such devices? Would they stop oscillating at
that frequency or drop in frequency if you make the measurements?

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 07:00:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA08680; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:51:01 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:51:01 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:42:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703131442.JAA14151 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <332749A7.32DF microtronics.com.au> (message from Greg Watson on Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:56:15 +0930)
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
Resent-Message-ID: <"wf3wV2.0.U72.HH1Ap" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4884
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


   Greg Watson (gwatson microtronics.com.au) said:

  > Have you studied, or even read, the 12 points of operational
  > characteristics in my DNMEC generator post of last week?  Can you tell
  > me, being the simple fool I am, where I have gone wrong?  Please Barry,
  > show me where I am wrong.  Put me out of my misery.  Or better still put
  > me in my place.  Or even better still, open up your mind.  Think outside
  > of the square.

    Amen!  I'm still waiting for Barry to show me the error of my
ways...  If there IS a relationship between the transition to
superconducting in ceramics and some Casmir potential field, I'm sure
Barry can get a paper out of it.  (And perhaps a Nobel...) But as far
as I can see, there is nothing in current physical theory that
requires that there be a relation, and that it be conservative.  (In
fact there has been a spate of recent papers about the fact that the
Casmir effect is NOT conservative.)  Consider two superconducting
films, one sandwiched between two metal plates, one in free space.
Barry's theory says that either Tc is different for the two films or
that it requires more energy to transition the sandwiched film to
non-conducting at the same Tc.

    There may be such an effect, and it may be small enough that no
one has yet commented on it in the published literature (at least that
I have seen).  Finding and identifying such an effect would, it seems
to me, have a big impact on the design and theory of high Tc
superconductors given their internal structure.  (The superconductive
effect is concentrated in the planes of copper atoms.)  Barry's theory
seems to say that the spacing between the planes has a significant
effect on the bulk superconducting properties due to the conservative
nature of the Casmir effect.

    Hmmm.  Giving Barry's theory a fair shake, creating a conductor
may be the step where energy is required.  The amount required would
depend on the Casmir potential at that point, and the amount of energy
released when the (super)conductor becomes an insulator would again
depend on the local field potential.  The experiment seems easy enough
to do.  Take a sandwich as above and put it in an AC magnetic field.
Measure the energy required to flip the ceramic between non-conducting
and superconducting.  Now put thin (mylar?) shims between the SC film
and the metal blocks, repeat.  Or better cut two samples from the same
film build the two sandwichs, put them in the same magnetic field and
find out if there is an intensity where one sample switches and the
other doesn't.  Hmmm.  Combine two effects--use gold leaf to gold
plate one of the samples.  That should give the maximum effect with a
minimum of material in the samples under test.

   But don't expect to find much.  If this hypothetical field exists,
then it should affect the design of Josephson junction devices.  In
fact, as I understand Barry's theory, the JJ devices I was working
with 20 years ago didn't work.  (Or at least, they would have reacted
to presence of conductors and to very low-level magnetic fields. I
only saw the latter.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 06:53:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA10818; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:42:54 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 06:42:54 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:42:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970313094213_805481208 emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: fwd from France
Resent-Message-ID: <"Nqqh4.0.ye2.i91Ap" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4885
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Dear Frank Znidarsic,

Thank you for the sending. We will keep you informed as soon as we have
received the package.

Thanks also for the phone numbers. I might not have the time to phone right
now, as we are very busy dealing with the video documents. But I will do it
later, in connection with the longer TV program we might do after this one
(in this short 26 minutes program, the info will have to be kept simple and
basic), and also the book I am writing.

I am in contact with Doug Collins, sales and info manager at CETI. We will
probably use the ABC footage (which we'll get directly from ABC). Collins
informed me that a 1 hour follow-up has been filmed by ABC (particularly
about the transmutations and nuclear decontamination process, which they
will present at Orlando in june) and is scheduled for boradcast in  early
july. (Of course we cannot have this footage until it is first broadcast by
ABC, so we will have the old footage).

Unfortunately, Stanley Pons has finally refused our proposal for an
interview. Apparently he won't allow a TV crew in his premises right now. He
did not specify the reasons. We will buy other older existing footage about
him and Fleischmann.

I have also a contact with high-level French physicist Lonchampt in
Grenoble, who was commissioned by the CEA (Commissariat pour l'Energie
Atomique, the French big and official nuclear energy agency) to investigate
cold fusion. He successfully replicated the Pons & Fleischmann cell, and is
currently working with a newly arrived CETI cell. He won't talk to the press
or TV right now, as his work on that is too recent and not finished. 

So obviously there is a lot of exciting things in the next months, and we
will deal with it on later programs.

Well, that's is for the moment. As I said, I'll keep you informed. I look
forward to see your tapes.

Best regards, 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Pierre Lentin

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 08:23:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA05512; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 08:12:31 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 08:12:31 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:04:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Duplicity is the honor amongst politicians too! Null msg.
In-Reply-To: <19970312144154.AAA14400 LOCALNAME>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970313160116.12438A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"6-PpQ1.0.2M1.jT2Ap" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4886
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 09:51:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01748; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:21:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 09:21:20 -0800
X-Sender: wharton 128.183.251.148
Message-Id: <v03007800af4dbabab22d [128.183.200.195]>
In-Reply-To: <33272CEC.15FB7483 math.ucla.edu>
References: <970312080534_100060.173_JHB102-1 CompuServe.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:20:59 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton climate-f.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
Resent-Message-ID: <"Il4H8.0.ER.FU3Ap" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4887
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In response to Greg Watson Barry Merriman wrote:

>> Seems all we need to do is to construct a high speed rotor with the
>> differencial voltage generators on the outer edge, rotate it at a very
>> high rpm (hence high acceleration), squeeze the electrons out, get a
>> current flow, do some work and without it seems,
>> causing any additional
>> load on the rotor.
>>
>To put things in perspective: The theory of electromagnetism
>is a conservative one. That theory is fully adequate to
>predict and describe a Tolman effect, and this effect
>would in no way be able to be "over unity" in that theory.

Here Barry is referring to conservation of energy and his argument does not
apply to conservation of entropy.  The proof that this system would not
decrease entropy would be quite difficult.  If the electrons have some
interaction with the thermal energy of the conductor then it is not simple
to prove that there will not be any excess energy at the expense of the
thermal energy in the conductor.
  To make things simple think of long insulated cylinders going up into the
Earth's atmosphere.  Here the gravitational acceleration would take the
place of the centrifugal acceleration.  These tubes would then be filled up
with different gases, water with various electrolytes, and conductors and
we will assume that the bottom of the tubes are grounded.  In the gas tubes
there would be some ion density in equilibrium in accord with the Saha
equation.  This ion density would be very small but that is OK, we will
take whatever we get.  The gas would establish an electric field that
balances the different gravitational force on the positive ions and the
much lighter electrons with the tendency of the electron-ion separation to
cancel out due to the so called ambipolar diffusion effect.  The electric
field set up will be a function of the ion masses and the ambipolar
diffusion rate, both of which will be different for different gases.  So
the gas tubes would have a negative potential at the top which would be
different for the different gases.
  Now the conductor containing tubes would have a positive potential at the
top due to the gravitational attraction downward of the electrons.  The
electrolyte containing tubes would have a positive or negative potential at
the top depending upon whether the positive or negative ions were the most
massive.
 So the tops of these tubes would have different potentials and I don't see
any reason that current would not flow from one to another.  This current
could produce energy which would be free.  The only way to eliminate this
free energy source is to require that the electric field induced in
different materials by gravity, or an acceleration from rotation, is the
same or zero. I don't think this will be the case.  The electron in the
conductor case, for example, gives the opposite sign from the gas case.
 The best way to test this effect is putting water with an electrolyte in a
centrifuge.  There the ion mass would be much larger than the electron mass
in a conductor.  What is a good electrolyte? Good old Li2SO4 should be
fine.  There you have the mass of Li compared to SO4 - that is a big
difference.

Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton climate.gsfc.nasa.gov


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 10:40:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA08284; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:02:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:02:33 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:01:38 +0000
Message-ID: <19970313180136.AAA717 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"9kuE02.0.I12.u44Ap" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4888
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 05:20 PM 3/13/97 +0000, Larry Wharton wrote:
>
> So the tops of these tubes would have different potentials and I don't see
>any reason that current would not flow from one to another.  This current
>could produce energy which would be free.  The only way to eliminate this
>free energy source is to require that the electric field induced in
>different materials by gravity, or an acceleration from rotation, is the
>same or zero. I don't think this will be the case.  The electron in the
>conductor case, for example, gives the opposite sign from the gas case.
> The best way to test this effect is putting water with an electrolyte in a
>centrifuge.  There the ion mass would be much larger than the electron mass
>in a conductor.  What is a good electrolyte? Good old Li2SO4 should be
>fine.  There you have the mass of Li compared to SO4 - that is a big
>difference.
>
I saw something related to this idea back in the 50's where the disk was
filled with an electrolyte and there was a potential generated when it was spun.

Put a magnet gap through the "disk" and gravity feed it with the salt water
from the Great Salt Lake and you will end up with a magneto-hydrodyamic
generator,yes?

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 10:50:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA21465; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:33:06 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 10:33:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: UV-X-Ray Flux?
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:23:32 +0000
Message-ID: <19970313182330.AAA11048 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"sQYkf3.0.JF5.WX4Ap" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4889
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

When can we prevail upon Larry Wharton to dig out the Data on the ultraviolet
54.4 ev to 10 kev photon flux from the Sun at Low Earth Orbit and down to
the Ozone Layer (30 km?), so we can see how many light electron-positron
pairs might possibly be being formed?  <G>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 13:07:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA05691; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:53:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:53:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/00030204 xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: Vortex-L <Vortex-L eskimo.com>
Subject: FW: Tolman Effect
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:40:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"3UX-X.0.rO1.5b6Ap" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4890
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


 ----------
From: Scudder, Henry J.
To: Greg Watson
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
Date: Thursday, March 13, 1997 7:38AM

Vortexans, Greg
	My wifes uncle's last name is Mott-Smith, which is
quite an unusual name. He was a
physicist who worked in magnetics, and did graduate work
under Pauli. What is the name and references of the Mott-Smith
you are listing as a co-author with Tolman?

Hank Scudder
 ----------
From: Greg Watson
To: vortex-l eskimo.com; freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Tolman Effect
Date: Tuesday, March 11, 1997 7:53PM


Fred Epps wrote:
for
<<snip>>
> free electrons; the more elaborate investigation of Tolman and Mott-Smith
a
> value 19 percent less than the standard value; while that of Tolman and
> Stewart gave a value 15 percent less than the standard value. In the work
of
> Tolman and Mott-Smith the phase of the electromagnetic force due to
> electron-inertia lagged about 10+6 behind that of -dV/dt, while the two
<<snip>>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 16:28:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA29258; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:09:16 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:09:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33289527.1E18 interlaced.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:00:39 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"AJZed2.0.497.fS9Ap" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4891
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This post is dedicated to Greg Watson and all those unsung heros at the
magneto-electro-mechanical OU front.

This is really a sales pitch for using pendulum-based test rigs and/or
demos for suspected OU events involving mechanical motion, electro-
mechanical forces, etc., and for conservation-of-momentum violating
systems.  This notion is far from new - I'm just casting my vote for
its increased use by low-budget amateur scientists.

I have been trying to talk Greg into using such a rig to pare his DNMEC
concept down to the conceptual "bone".  I think his unwritten comment
may be something like "Pendulum this, Stenger!"  However, in line with
our view of Australians being nothing if not polite, he has not yet cast
doubt on the legitimacy of my ancestors.

Consider the following generic pendulum sketch:

				////////
				--------
				    |	Knife-edge or flex-plate
				   / \	pivot to confine motion to
				  /   \	a single plane (if desired)
				 /     \
				/       \
			       /         \
	Rigid pendulum arm >  /           \
	for stability as     /             \
	required	    /               \
			   /                 \
			  /                   \
			 /                     \
			/ <<<--------------->>> \
		       /                         \
                    A *      --------------       *A
                             | zone of OU |
			     | force act- |
			     | tion       |
			     --------------

A wide range of force-in-motion experiments could be set up in the
max-velocity point of the pendulum's swing.  The armature at the end
of the arm could be supplied with electrical power through flexible
leads near the pivot point - if batteries would not work.
Timed actions on the armature and/or in the stator region could be
initiated using a variety of optical triggers set up along the swing-
path.  The "home position, say on the left, could be fitted with
mechanical or electro-magnetic latches of a wide variety.
Using dummy weight-equivalents to the active armature components,
(such as magnets, that might experience force effects) the pendulum
"end" position could be calibrated as a ballistic work gage.

If the suspected OU forces are bi-directional or if in one direction
per cycle (like a swing), the rig could be set up as an eye-catching
perpetual motion machine.  If I had faith in the honesty of the
experimenter (And ALL vortexians are honest!) this kind of result would
bring me running with my camcorder!

To drive a rig with a motor opens up a bucket of questions about the
motor's characteristics and the electrical power measurements - I just
think pendulums are more skeptic-friendly.  What do you think?

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 17:36:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA10160; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:08:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:08:21 -0800
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:07:49 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703140107.TAA13431 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: fstenger interlaced.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
Resent-Message-ID: <"_DUqN2.0.bU2.4KAAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4892
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 19:00 3/13/97 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:

>This is really a sales pitch for using pendulum-based test rigs...

I like your style, Frank.  I've used pendulums for a number of experiments.
They're great.  You can easily tell whether their amplitude is decaying or
building...and they are quite sensitive.

I used on with a LN2-cooled SC swinging back and forth next to a big
toroidal coil to demonstrate that a curl-free vector potential(A)does not
exert a noticeable force on a SC...which more-or-less says that the 2nd
London equation, which states that J=-kA in a SC, is not valid for curl-free
A.  

Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 17:45:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA13713; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:33:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:33:00 -0800
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 20:33:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Soltis James Dr." <soltis server.uwindsor.ca>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: The Dithered are here
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.970313192158.12549A-100000 server.uwindsor.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ay4N61.0.BM3.AhAAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4893
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Visit   http://www.uwindsor.ca/faculty/eng/electrical/soltis
to explore this .I know this is not necessarily vortex-related
but maybe it is.Mathematics has a habit of always showing its stuff in 
the real world(I know there is a famous quote somewhere).Thus 
fractals,chaos,etc. become of interest.These new
things arise because instead of the seemingly strict adherence of quantum 
mechanics(and science in general) people to LINEAR theories,the spectacular
advent of computer power means that anyone can explore the NONLINEAR world
Thus one deals with stressed systems,whether it be a stressed I-beam in 
civil engineering or a molecule in chemistry/physics .In any case these
dithered trig functions EXIST so 'WHY ARE THESE HERE'.
                                             Jim Soltis
                                          soltis server.uwindsor.ca


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 17:46:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA14164; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:34:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:34:58 -0800
Message-ID: <3328B90E.418 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:03:51 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
References: <33289527.1E18 interlaced.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"VI0XU3.0.AT3.0jAAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4894
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> This post is dedicated to Greg Watson and all those unsung heros at the
> magneto-electro-mechanical OU front.
> 
> This is really a sales pitch for using pendulum-based test rigs and/or
> demos for suspected OU events involving mechanical motion, electro-
> mechanical forces, etc., and for conservation-of-momentum violating
> systems.  This notion is far from new - I'm just casting my vote for
> its increased use by low-budget amateur scientists.

Hi Frank,

What a great idea!!!!  I am, even now, redesigning my test rig and
thinking of the charges necessary to enable this idea to work to the
best effect.  Biggest problem I see is the rate of flux change is going
to be much...much smaller than driving the flux gate with a motor.  The
smaller the rate of change, the smaller the induced coil EMF and the
smaller the external flux density change.  I worry bout air resistance
more than bearing losses.  I may need a much bigger stator to overcome
the losses in the pendulum.  Can you help with ball park losses?

It's like I always say "None of us are as smart as ALL of us"

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 18:36:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13496; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:15:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:15:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3328BF97.6897 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:31:43 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Opposing Flux Density
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F0070AC5D62"
Resent-Message-ID: <"tCKZz.0.bI3.mIBAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4895
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------F0070AC5D62
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

Several people have asked me to re-post the data on opposing magnets. 
Attached are a flux contour and an XY plot of the flux density through
the centre of the air gap between the poles.  Observe that the peak of
the flux density occurs outside the air gap.  It is in this area of
increased flux density that the flux gate must move for the DNMEC effect
to function.

Hope this helps to further understand the DNMEC effect.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------F0070AC5D62
Content-Type: image/gif; name="exampleb.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="exampleb.gif"
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--------------F0070AC5D62
Content-Type: image/gif; name="exampleg.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="exampleg.gif"
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--------------F0070AC5D62--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 19:43:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA29403; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:16:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:16:25 -0800
Message-ID: <3328D024.5F0D microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:42:20 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC and Core Flux Density (Part 2)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------38A0616D3FCC"
Resent-Message-ID: <"S1yC73.0.IB7.4CCAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4897
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------38A0616D3FCC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

Here are two Gifs showing that system (core) flux density increases as
the flux gate moves closer to the air gap.  The model is of my test
setup and the movement represents 5mm of movement.  Flux density
increases from 0.726T to 0.809T.  Not much, but then for the DNMEC
effect to work, the flux gate can only move in the area where external
flux density increases.  Look for enlarging areas of flux contours
(colours) in the ferromagnetic core material.  Best seen in the bottom
section.

Hope this helps.

This post is in two parts to overcome the 40k mail server limitations. 
Couldn't make the images smaller and hold detail.  At lease not with my
graphic software (Lviewpro).

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------38A0616D3FCC
Content-Type: image/gif; name="near.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="near.gif"
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--------------38A0616D3FCC--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 20:00:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA02857; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:25:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:25:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3328CFCC.2556 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:40:52 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC and Core Flux Density (Part 1)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E3C7E2D5E89"
Resent-Message-ID: <"cjqXc3.0.Ti.UKCAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4898
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------E3C7E2D5E89
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

Here are two Gifs showing that system (core) flux density increases as
the flux gate moves closer to the air gap.  The model is of my test
setup and the movement represents 5mm of movement.  Flux density
increases from 0.726T to 0.809T.  Not much, but then for the DNMEC
effect to work, the flux gate can only move in the area where external
flux density increases.  Look for enlarging areas of flux contours
(colours) in the ferromagnetic core material.  Best seen in the bottom
section.

Hope this helps.

This post is in two parts to overcome the 40k mail server limitations. 
Couldn't make the images smaller and hold detail.  At lease not with my
graphic software (Lviewpro).

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------E3C7E2D5E89
Content-Type: image/gif; name="far.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="far.gif"
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--------------E3C7E2D5E89--



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 19:55:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA29328; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:16:07 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:16:07 -0800
Message-ID: <3328C966.101C microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:13:34 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: DNMEC and MMF Source Location
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------12B2690F75E5"
Resent-Message-ID: <"oQYo41.0.4A7.qBCAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4896
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------12B2690F75E5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

I have been asked to further explain the effect of MMF (magnet & coil)
location on external flux density and on the DNMEC effect.  

I have attached two Gifs which show the effect of the location of the
opposing MMF sources on external flux density in and around a air gap.  

Notice that (in the first Gif) when the MMF sources are buried (not
adjacent to the air gap) and connected to the air gap by ferromagnetic
material, opposing MMF sources cause reduced gap flux density.  

But when (in the second Gif) the MMF sources are adjacent to the air
gap, the flux density just outside of the air gap increases.  

This is why it is very necessary for the MMF sources to be adjacent to
the air gap for the DNMEC effect to work.

Hope this helps.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------12B2690F75E5
Content-Type: image/gif; name="core25.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="core25.gif"
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--------------12B2690F75E5
Content-Type: image/gif; name="edge25.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="edge25.gif"
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--------------12B2690F75E5--



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 13 21:48:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA16661; Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:34:28 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 21:34:28 -0800
Message-ID: <3328E36C.5F94 interlaced.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 00:34:36 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
References: <33289527.1E18 interlaced.net> <3328B90E.418@microtronics.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"9BEIN3.0.F44.ZDEAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4899
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greg Watson wrote:
>

(snip)
 
 Biggest problem I see is the rate of flux change is going
> to be much...much smaller than driving the flux gate with a motor.  The
> smaller the rate of change, the smaller the induced coil EMF and the
> smaller the external flux density change. 

Yes!  These points worry me also, Greg.  I wouldn't want to cause you
to follow a blind alley for your particular concept.

The shading winding on a shaded pole motor is usually a single turn of
welded copper.  It might be important to be able to try a selection
of coil turns vs. wire size to vary the impedence of the coil to suit
the speed of the pendulum swing - I have no good feel for the numbers
here.  Maybe you could "open" and "close" the coil with a bead of solder
right on the coil itself to lower resistance.

If your idea involved SMALL air gaps - then, perhaps the flux gate
forces would dominate the air loss.  BUT, since the DNMEC involves
rather large air gaps (if I have that right?) I share your worry about
pendulum windage.  One option to consider would be to run the rig
in a crude vacuum tank to reduce the windage.  This would help a
pendulum rig much more than a motor rig because of the different loss
breakdown.  The motor would keep bearing, copper, and iron losses -
even in a vacuum.  The vacuum sounds like a LAST RESORT to me!

Maybe the best thing to do is to increase the magnetic circuit weight
as much as possible so you can, in turn, use a heavy flux gate armature.
My thought is that air drag goes up like area but magnetic circuit
power is more a function of volume, is'nt it?  You could make the
pendulum arm flat with rounded edges so that the arm edge "saw" the
air flow - as a streamlined aircraft strut.  You could cowl in the
moving parts with a streamlined balsa wood cover a-la model airplane
technology.  Also, a pendulum has much of its swing at low velocity -
so that would help.  One help - as the pendulum swing gets slower and
slower, its losses also get smaller - helps a little to make up for
the lower electromagnetic forces.

Greg, the very most important thing is that YOU BUY the idea yourself.
The first person an OU hunter needs to satisfy is himself (or herself,
ladies)!  I hate to see you discard hardware that has a lot of your time
invested in it!  Make sure it makes sense to you.

Frank Stenger (bedtime!)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 01:02:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA28550; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 00:51:30 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 00:51:30 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33291D50.3DE6 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:11:36 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
References: <33289527.1E18 interlaced.net> <3328B90E.418@microtronics.com.au> <3328E36C.5F94@interlaced.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bBx1w.0._z6.E6HAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4900
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Greg Watson wrote:
> >
> 
> (snip)
> 
>  Biggest problem I see is the rate of flux change is going
> > to be much...much smaller than driving the flux gate with a motor.  The
> > smaller the rate of change, the smaller the induced coil EMF and the
> > smaller the external flux density change.
> 
> Yes!  These points worry me also, Greg.  I wouldn't want to cause you
> to follow a blind alley for your particular concept.
> 
> The shading winding on a shaded pole motor is usually a single turn of
> welded copper.  It might be important to be able to try a selection
> of coil turns vs. wire size to vary the impedence of the coil to suit
> the speed of the pendulum swing - I have no good feel for the numbers
> here.  Maybe you could "open" and "close" the coil with a bead of solder
> right on the coil itself to lower resistance.
> 
> If your idea involved SMALL air gaps - then, perhaps the flux gate
> forces would dominate the air loss.  BUT, since the DNMEC involves
> rather large air gaps (if I have that right?)

You do.

> I share your worry about
> pendulum windage.  One option to consider would be to run the rig
> in a crude vacuum tank to reduce the windage.  This would help a
> pendulum rig much more than a motor rig because of the different loss
> breakdown.  The motor would keep bearing, copper, and iron losses -
> even in a vacuum.  The vacuum sounds like a LAST RESORT to me!

Ditto.

> Maybe the best thing to do is to increase the magnetic circuit weight
> as much as possible so you can, in turn, use a heavy flux gate armature.
> My thought is that air drag goes up like area but magnetic circuit
> power is more a function of volume, is'nt it?  You could make the
> pendulum arm flat with rounded edges so that the arm edge "saw" the
> air flow - as a streamlined aircraft strut.  You could cowl in the
> moving parts with a streamlined balsa wood cover a-la model airplane
> technology.  

Built and designed many a glider as a young boy.

> Also, a pendulum has much of its swing at low velocity -
> so that would help.  One help - as the pendulum swing gets slower and
> slower, its losses also get smaller - helps a little to make up for
> the lower electromagnetic forces.
> 
> Greg, the very most important thing is that YOU BUY the idea yourself.
> The first person an OU hunter needs to satisfy is himself (or herself,
> ladies)!  I hate to see you discard hardware that has a lot of your time
> invested in it!  Make sure it makes sense to you.
> 
> Frank Stenger (bedtime!)

Hi Frank,

Maybe this will make it to your sleep level.

I believe your idea is basically sound, I have bought it.  

Hook, line & sinker.  

I am currently designing a 45 degree sector with laminar flow sides (if
I get it right) and 24 flux gates along the lower edge.  The idea is for
the multiple flux gates to boost the OU operation by 24 times at a fixed
frictional loss cost.  

Any good ideas for bearings?  I was thinking razor blades on glass.  

Another problem is that the flux gate forces are not at right angles to
the driving shaft.  They vary as coil current changes and alters the
point of max flux density.  The variation is not (according to the
QField sims) too great.  Variations are around 5%.  Still, the razor
blades should be able to handle that.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 03:27:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA12802; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 03:17:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 03:17:49 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Self-Cleaning Nuclear Reactors and (1H1*)+ (1H2*)?
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:13:04 +0000
Message-ID: <19970314111302.AAA17277 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"miAIY1.0.y73.SFJAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4901
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

In the early 1950's there was a "homogeneous water reactor" experiment that used
water soluble Uranyl Sulphate dissolved in water (35grams/kilogram of water)
the water was prepressurized to 1,000 psig and the reactions in this mix
pushed the water temp to 482 deg F. (steam press about 560 psi). The system
apparently ran well and safely.

It may be possible that the "light electrons-positrons" were being formed in
this mix thus creating the (1H1*) and/or (1H2*) small hydrogen atoms and
these things were actuallly cleaning up the fission fragments as the thing
ran (for about two years).

Maybe not the most efficient from a thermodynamic standpoint, but, seems
like a good trade-off.

BTW. Cerenkov radiation makes a lot of sense with the light
electron-positron particles traveling faster than the velocity of light in
those "swimming-pool"
reactors. <g>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 05:29:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA02293; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 05:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 05:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:10:44 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703141310.HAA25459 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
Resent-Message-ID: <"lqYgS3.0.gZ.l1LAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4902
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:11 PM 3/14/97 +0930, Greg Watson wrote:

>Any good ideas for bearings?  I was thinking razor blades on glass. 

I think you're gonna want a more robust fixing than that.  Consider using
miniature ball bearings with 4-6mm bore.  The swinging thing can have little
stub shafts that go into a pair of the bearings.  Each bearing is mounted
atop a  rigid column that is attached to the base.  Such pivots, if lightly
lubricated and properly aligned will be quite low in friction.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 07:33:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA12331; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:21:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:21:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33296B1B.45F1 interlaced.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:13:31 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
References: <199703141310.HAA25459 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"R77213.0.a03.BqMAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4903
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 
(snip)

> miniature ball bearings with 4-6mm bore.  lightly
> lubricated and properly aligned will be quite low in friction.

Sounds good, Scott.  Hey did you not suggest a type of hall probe you
have used?  I think Greg should instrument the stator and the flux gate
so the process can be followed on a scope (Greg sounds like he would
have a good scope around, sigh.... I don't!)

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 09:20:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA00747; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:08:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:08:48 -0800
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:08:40 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703141708.LAA15924 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Pendulum Design Details
Resent-Message-ID: <"MWNea1.0.XB.WOOAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4904
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:13 3/14/97 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:

>Hey did you not suggest a type of hall probe you
>have used?  I think Greg should instrument the stator and the flux gate
>so the process can be followed on a scope

Honeywell MICRO SWITCH makes a useful device called the SS9 that is an
analog output Hall sensor.  There are various models for different ranges of
B field strength.  They cost around $20, I think.

Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 12:44:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA14561; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:19:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:19:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Intended-For: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970314121143.009f5100 aa.net>
X-Sender: mwm aa.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 12:11:45 +0000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Michael Mandeville <mwm aa.net>
Subject: Re: Self-Cleaning Nuclear Reactors and (1H1*)+ (1H2*)?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Resent-Message-ID: <"jBGU03.0.QZ3.0BRAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4905
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick:  This is an astute piece of info.  I was not aware of this
technology path at all.  This is a very serious contender for a
sophisicated powerhouse takeoff on radioactivity transmutation experiments.
 What is uranyl sulphate?  Is this a strategically controlled compound?

At 11:13 AM 3/14/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Vortexians:
>
>In the early 1950's there was a "homogeneous water reactor" experiment
that used
>water soluble Uranyl Sulphate dissolved in water (35grams/kilogram of water)
>the water was prepressurized to 1,000 psig and the reactions in this mix
>pushed the water temp to 482 deg F. (steam press about 560 psi). The system
>apparently ran well and safely.
>
>It may be possible that the "light electrons-positrons" were being formed in
>this mix thus creating the (1H1*) and/or (1H2*) small hydrogen atoms and
>these things were actuallly cleaning up the fission fragments as the thing
>ran (for about two years).
>
>Maybe not the most efficient from a thermodynamic standpoint, but, seems
>like a good trade-off.
>
>BTW. Cerenkov radiation makes a lot of sense with the light
>electron-positron particles traveling faster than the velocity of light in
>those "swimming-pool"
>reactors. <g>
>
>Regards,    Frederick
>
>
Michael W. Mandeville
Environmental Tune-Up Inc.
mwm aa.net  http://www.aa.net/~mwm/enviro/tuneup.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 13:40:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08344; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:23:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:23:03 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Self-Cleaning Nuclear Reactors and (1H1*)+ (1H2*)?
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:22:01 +0000
Message-ID: <19970314212159.AAA18227 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"UbqyL1.0.I22.r6SAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4906
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:11 PM 3/14/97 +0000, Michael Mandeville wrote:
>Frederick:  This is an astute piece of info.  I was not aware of this
>technology path at all.  This is a very serious contender for a
>sophisicated powerhouse takeoff on radioactivity transmutation experiments.
> What is uranyl sulphate?  Is this a strategically controlled compound?

Uranyl Sulphate: UO2SO4.3 H2O or 2(UO2SO4).7 H2O, enriched to 90% U235 would
probably be "a strategically controlled" compound. I would think that the
Bromide or Chloride would do the job as well. The halides of Pu239 might
work also.  That's a touchy subject though.  <g>

Regards,   Frederick

>
>At 11:13 AM 3/14/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>Vortexians:
>>
>>In the early 1950's there was a "homogeneous water reactor" experiment
>that used
>>water soluble Uranyl Sulphate dissolved in water (35grams/kilogram of water)
>>the water was prepressurized to 1,000 psig and the reactions in this mix
>>pushed the water temp to 482 deg F. (steam press about 560 psi). The system
>>apparently ran well and safely.
>>
>>It may be possible that the "light electrons-positrons" were being formed in
>>this mix thus creating the (1H1*) and/or (1H2*) small hydrogen atoms and
>>these things were actuallly cleaning up the fission fragments as the thing
>>ran (for about two years).
>>
>>Maybe not the most efficient from a thermodynamic standpoint, but, seems
>>like a good trade-off.
>>
>>BTW. Cerenkov radiation makes a lot of sense with the light
>>electron-positron particles traveling faster than the velocity of light in
>>those "swimming-pool"
>>reactors. <g>
>>
>>Regards,    Frederick
>>
>>
>Michael W. Mandeville
>Environmental Tune-Up Inc.
>mwm aa.net  http://www.aa.net/~mwm/enviro/tuneup.html
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 14:23:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA27914; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:08:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:08:42 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:59:05 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703142159.PAA15741 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Al's birthday
Resent-Message-ID: <"elSDL3.0.3q6.dnSAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4907
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Today is Albert Einstein's birthday.  He was born in 1879...118 years ago!


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 15:14:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA21785; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:55:07 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:55:07 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <3329D738.ABD322C math.ucla.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:54:48 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Al's birthday
References: <199703142159.PAA15741 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"WDnbR1.0.FK5.9TTAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4908
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 
> Today is Albert Einstein's birthday.  He was born in 1879...

Well, frankly, I must admit to being glad that he's dead. 
I mean, knowing what he new about the Unified Field and the
Philadephia Experiment, and sitting by and not saying anything
publicly...he made it so much harder for those of us trying
to get the truth out. And the way he tried to suppress 
Quantum Mechanics and withhold all the associated free energy
and psychic phenomena from the populace! I say good ridance.

( :-) :-), with regards to C.S.)


-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 15:16:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA21888; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:56:13 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 14:56:13 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Al's birthday
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:55:23 +0000
Message-ID: <19970314225521.AAA9965 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"mzM9f3.0.vL5.CUTAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4909
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 09:59 PM 3/14/97 +0000, Scott Little wrote:
>Today is Albert Einstein's birthday.  He was born in 1879...118 years ago!
>
>
When is Al Bundy's Birthday Scott? <G> Watched a program the other night, Al
was supposed to get a circular incision for a back problem. Hospital had a
mixup and poor Al ended up with a circumcision. 

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 15:26:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA23841; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:11:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:11:55 -0800
Message-ID: <3329E8FB.36EF microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:40:35 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, fstenger@interlaced.net
CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hey PENDULUM - OU KIDD!
References: <199703141310.HAA25459 natashya.eden.com> <33296B1B.45F1@interlaced.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"kHhjD1.0.Qq5.viTAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4910
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Scott Little wrote:
> >
> (snip)
> 
> > miniature ball bearings with 4-6mm bore.  lightly
> > lubricated and properly aligned will be quite low in friction.
> 
> Sounds good, Scott.  Hey did you not suggest a type of hall probe you
> have used?  I think Greg should instrument the stator and the flux gate
> so the process can be followed on a scope (Greg sounds like he would
> have a good scope around, sigh.... I don't!)
> 
> Frank Stenger

Hi Frank,

Way ahead of you.  I do have and use several Hall effect devices.  I
also have a 50Mhz Dual trace, delayed sweep scope (it really goes to
better than 100Mhz due to some redesign work).

I have decided to use two stators to balance out the unequal force
vectors that could cause excess loading on the pedulum bearings.  Scotts
idea on the bearing is also being designed in.

I like your shaded pole idea as well, Frank.  Seems like my Gold wedding
ring may come into another use.  Now to find a few ferrite "C" cores to
fit the build.  My existing cores were removed from a dead high voltage
transformer.  Need something bout 3 times that size now.

Looks like I will finally have to get a scanner for the scope photos.

And I was looking forward to a relaxing weekend with a few good Southern
Vales reds.  Oh well, the unknown wins again.

Thanks again for the input.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 15:38:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA25758; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:23:30 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:23:30 -0800
Message-ID: <3329EA23.1345 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:45:31 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Pendulum Design Details
References: <199703141708.LAA15924 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"hXlXY1.0.OI6.ntTAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4911
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 
> At 10:13 3/14/97 -0500, Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> >Hey did you not suggest a type of hall probe you
> >have used?  I think Greg should instrument the stator and the flux gate
> >so the process can be followed on a scope
> 
> Honeywell MICRO SWITCH makes a useful device called the SS9 that is an
> analog output Hall sensor.  There are various models for different ranges of
> B field strength.  They cost around $20, I think.

Hi Scott,

I have the Honeywell unit as well as one from TI.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 21:18:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA05078; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:06:18 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:06:18 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:56:44 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970314235643_448110962 emout01.mail.aol.com>
To: RVargo1062 aol.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bmPIA2.0.BF1.6vYAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4912
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
Date:    97-03-14 20:16:40 EST
From:    GeorgeHM
To:      MOBY DICKI,Itzonev,Mark Hib
To:      FZNIDARSIC


---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
Date:    97-03-14 10:49:35 EST
From:    HRMiley
To:      Lemmermann pipeline.com
To:      ahab mindspring.com,GeorgeHM
To:      GClemen,Nygren
To:      105514.2744 compuserve.com


---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
Date:    97-03-13 20:16:17 EST
From:    Ghandi01
To:      HRMiley


---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
Date:    97-03-12 18:36:20 EST
From:    SoakieAlso
To:      103456.3551 compuserve.com
To:      Cmargraves juno.com
To:      Margraves_Kevin bns.attmail.com
To:      Margraves_Shane emc.com
To:      jerry bo.net,Cobrien@coris.com
To:      Ben.Lines titansports.com,L DAWN 27
To:      Peekin2,kayjim1 swbell.net,KResch
To:      Ghandi01

read!
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
Date:    97-03-12 15:31:19 EST
From:    SFfunLover
To:      SoakieAlso,RebelStews,TAOJEFFH
To:      Tone net,RICAN62,Tristan NM
To:      JoeBurb,Rumley accesscom.com
To:      Boricua348
To:      RS.Blaya worldnet.att.net,Thktop9
To:      NORCALIF,DEAVERS,JaxxonT,KENEDOLL
To:      ScrubCub 1,Marcus1010,Stevendive
To:      WolfiesDen,Keegan35,NinnrNannr
To:      103456.3551 compuserve.com

Tell the world!!!!!
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	vpsearch creative.net (Vincent Pietromartire)
Reply-to:	vpsearch creative.net
To:	sffunlover aol.com
Date: 97-03-12 14:47:41 EST

read this Carlos

Vince,
We received these warnings today.  I thought you and some of your 
e-Mail friends should also be warned:

>
>There is a particularly nasty computer virus that is being sent across the
>internet.
>If you receive an email message with the subject line "Good
>Times", DO NOT read the message, DELETE it immediately.  Please
>read the messages below.
>
>Some miscreant is sending  email under the title "Good Times"
>nationwide, if you get anything like this, DON'T DOWNLOAD THE
>FILE! It has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating
>anything on it. Please be careful and forward this mail to friends and
>associates.
>
>The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a matter of
>major importance to any regular user  of the Internet. Apparently
>a new computer virus has been engineered by a user of AMERICA ON
>LINE and is unparalleled in its destructive capability. Other
>more well-known viruses such as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and
>"Michaelangelo" pale in comparison to the prospects of this
>newest creation by a warped mentality.
>
>What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact
>that no program needs to be exchanged for a new computer to be
>infected. It can be spread through the existing email systems of
>the Internet. Once a Computer is infected, one of several things
>can happen. If the computer contains a hard drive, that will most
>likely be destroyed. If the program is not stopped, the
>computer's processor will be placed in an nth-complexity infinite
>binary loop-which can severely damage the processor if left
>running that way too long. 
>
>Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize what
>is happening until it is far too late. Luckily, there is one sure
>means of detecting what is now known as the "Good Times" virus.
>It always travels to new computers the same way in a text email
>message with the subject line reading "Good Times". Avoiding
>infection is easy once the file has been received simply by NOT
>READING IT! The act of loading the file into the mail server's
>ASCII buffer causes the "Good Times" mainline program to
>initialize and execute.
>
>The program is highly intelligent- it will send copies to
>everyone whose email address is contained in a receive-mail file
>or a sent-mail file, ifit can find one. It will then proceed to
>trash the computer it is running on. 
>
>The bottom line is:  - if you receive a file with the subject
>line "Good Times", delete it  immediately! Do not read it"  Rest
>assured that whoevers' name was on the "From" line was surely
>struck by the virus.
>
>Warn your friends and  local system users of this newest threat
>to the Internet! It could save them a lot of time and money. 
>
>Could you pass this along to your global mailing lists well?
>
><2 Subject:  New and Dangerous Virus For your information
>
>DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE
>EXTENSION
>
>A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the
>name PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this
>file is a new version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP"
>(compress) files. DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any
>circumstances!!! If you install or expand this file, the virus
>WILL wipe your hard disk clean and affect modems at 14.4 and
>higher. This is an extremely destructive virus and there is NOT
>yet a way of cleaning up this one.
>
>REPEAT: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE
>EXTENSION.
>***************************************************************
>
>
>

José
_____________________
José Berríos
Information Services
Airgas, Inc. (610) 902-6279
_________________________


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 21:12:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA03587; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:00:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:00:48 -0800
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:00:22 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703150500.XAA19680 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: looky here...
Resent-Message-ID: <"hzhop2.0.zt.0qYAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4913
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE                         
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 311 March 13, 1997    
by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein

EXPLOSIONS OF ATOM CLUSTERS YIELD HIGH ENERGIES.
Femtosecond lasers can be used to convert chemical energy into
kinetic energy with great pyrotechnic effect.  For example, they can
blow up molecules, imparting a kinetic energy of 100 eV to
individual outgoing ions.  Aiming fsec pulses at a solid can produce
ions with keV energies.  Now scientists at Imperial College
(London) have observed much higher energy ions (up to 1 MeV)
flying away from the miniature fireball caused by shooting
ultrashort (150 fsec), high-intensity (2 x 10^16 W/cm^2) laser
pulses at clusters of xenon atoms. It is not yet understood why
clusters explode so much more violently than molecules. The
researchers look on their explosions as a novel and modest way of
achieving high-temperature plasmas in a gas of clusters.  They point
to the possibility of tabletop fusion experiments.  (T. Ditmire et al.,
Nature, 6 March 1997.)
 - Scott Little
 EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759
 512-342-2185 (voice)  512-346-3017 (FAX)  little eden.com (email)
 http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 21:49:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA11208; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:38:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:38:44 -0800
Message-ID: <332A439F.5C0E microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:07:19 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, Patrick Bailey <pgb@padrak.com>
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Interesting OU? Patents
References: <v02140b02af4fc69bee5a [205.149.162.154]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"8hEeY1.0.qk2.XNZAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4914
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Patrick Bailey wrote:
> 
> I want a complete list of O-U and F-E patents for my web site.

So do I.

> Send me contreibutions please.

Hi Patrick,


Here is my latest list:

US Patents :

US 3374376  Kromrey    (Not yet on IBM server)

US 3811058  Kiniski    Rotary-to-Reciprocating Device,

US 3879622  Ecklin     Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion

US 3890548  Gray       Pulsed capacitor discharge electric engine
       
US 4084408  van Platen Method of recovering energy by means of a cyclic
                        thermodynamic process

US 4151431  Johnson    Permanent magnet motor

US 4443776  Cunningham Rotary Magnetic Device (Permanent Magnet Motor)

US 4877983  Johnson    Magnetic Force Generating Methods and Apparatus

US 4215330  Hartman    Permanent magnet propulsion system

US 5191258  German     Electric current generator including torque
                        reducing countermagnetic field

US 5402021  Johnson    Magnetic propulsion system

US 5416391  Correa     Electromechanical transduction of plasma pulses

US 5436518  Kawai      Motive power generating device

US 5449989  Correa     Energy conversion system

US 5502354  Correa     DIrect current energized pulse generator
utilizing
                        autogenous cyclical pulsed abnormal glow
discharges



UK Patents :

UK 2282708A Aspden,    Patent Application
            Adams      


Anyone have any more to add?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 21:52:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA11885; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:40:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:40:41 -0800
Message-ID: <332A4411.77B3 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:09:13 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: looky here...
References: <199703150500.XAA19680 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"wtFFo2.0.av2.MPZAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4915
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 
> PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
> The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
> Number 311 March 13, 1997
> by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein
> 
> EXPLOSIONS OF ATOM CLUSTERS YIELD HIGH ENERGIES.
> Femtosecond lasers can be used to convert chemical energy into
> kinetic energy with great pyrotechnic effect.  For example, they can
> blow up molecules, imparting a kinetic energy of 100 eV to
> individual outgoing ions.  Aiming fsec pulses at a solid can produce
> ions with keV energies.  Now scientists at Imperial College
> (London) have observed much higher energy ions (up to 1 MeV)
> flying away from the miniature fireball caused by shooting
> ultrashort (150 fsec), high-intensity (2 x 10^16 W/cm^2) laser
> pulses at clusters of xenon atoms. It is not yet understood why
> clusters explode so much more violently than molecules. The
> researchers look on their explosions as a novel and modest way of
> achieving high-temperature plasmas in a gas of clusters.  They point
> to the possibility of tabletop fusion experiments.  (T. Ditmire et al.,
> Nature, 6 March 1997.)
>  - Scott Little

Hi Scott,

You find the most interesting little tid bits.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 22:18:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA15891; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:04:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:04:42 -0800
Message-Id: <199703150604.WAA07534 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:06:47 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: looky here... femtosecond kinetic energy
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199703150500.XAA19680 natashya.eden.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"B1oTV1.0.Au3.plZAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4916
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Great item Scott on the Nature story thanks for the tip on that one.

I rather like this. Since SL bubbles flash is under 10ps (courtesy of Seth 
Putterman's lattest studies). And my bubble jets which are probably at 
least an order of magnitude shorter period than the the flash it's beginning to 
get interesting. We also have clusters of noble gas which are in fact part of 
the bubble jet. They go blasting into objects (and each other) and stop in a 
few hundred fs at most. I suspect the energy is in the range of the femtosecond 
laser hits described in Nature.

What happens? As the guys in Nature suggest "table top fusion" might be
possible. They are right.

Russ George
http://www.hooked.net/~rgeorge/sonof.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 22:24:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA17857; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:12:50 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:12:50 -0800
Message-Id: <m0w5mha-0004M7C mirage.skypoint.com>
From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan)
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 00:12:22 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <970314235643_448110962 emout01.mail.aol.com> from "FZNIDARSIC@aol.com" at Mar 14, 97 11:56:44 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"GjiGD3.0.rM4.TtZAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4917
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> >There is a particularly nasty computer virus that is being sent
> >across the internet.
> >If you receive an email message with the subject line "Good
> >Times", DO NOT read the message, DELETE it immediately.  Please
> >read the messages below.

The "Good Times" virus is a hoax.  It was a hoax the last time
it came around, as well as the previous dozen times it has
come around.  There aint no such thing.

-- 
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  612-699-9472 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 22:30:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA19361; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:19:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:19:58 -0800
Message-ID: <332A4CC8.59E7 rt66.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:24:07 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, fznidarsic@aol.com
Subject: VIRUS WARNING: Urban Legend
References: <970314235643_448110962 emout01.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"sIiMl3.0.Mk4.B-ZAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4918
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hey, Vo,  the "Good Times Virus" message is itself a primo, years
reoccurent example of a viral message, that induces recipients to
replicate and broadcast it in an exponential chain reaction.  Another
famous case was one that asked readers to send their business cards to a
terminally ill kid who collected them.  The family was inundulated with
sacks of donated cards for months!  Anyway, this is the third warning
I've received about this one in a year.

Rich Murray

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 14 23:51:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA15164; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:40:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 23:40:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <332A5E02.3AFA microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:59:54 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: neotech xbn.shore.net, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com,
        freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Updated OU? Patent List
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"WvKSq2.0.oi3._9bAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4919
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi All,

Here is the latest OU? list.  Suggest you get in early as the IBM server
is going to be busy.

Evan, lets get Joe's listed as well.  If you could post me the app
numbers and dates, I will add them.

Current list (as of 15/3/97) of reported OU patents,
 (compiled by Greg Watson & Fred Epps) :

Country  Number	Inventor	Invention

US	 600457	Stubblefield	Electric Battery. Apparently used 
				 a 'forgotten' EM effect called the 
				 Magnetovoltaic Effect. I (Fred Epps)
				 will be posting an article about 
				 this effect soon.

US	 685957	Tesla		Apparatus For The Utilization Of 
				 Radiant Energy

US	1826727	Britteny	"Radio Apparatus.  Not in itself an 
				 overunity device, but part of a 
				 system that powered his house 
				 for years."

US	1835721	Powell		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859643	Worthington	Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859764	Bougon		Magnetic Device

US	1963213	Poysa		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	2115578	Hall		Radiant Energy Receiver

US	2279690	Lindsey		Motor/Generator Unit

UK	2282708	Aspden,
		Adams		Patent Application

US	3249944	Srockman	Electromagnetic Transduction 
				 Utilizing Radiant Energy

US	3374376	Kromrey		Electric Generator

US	3386883	Farnsworth	Method And Apparatus For Producing

US	3403323			"Parametric Transformer.  No 
				 overunity claims have been made 
				 for this device, but I (Fred Epps) 
				 feel that parametric devices have 
				 potential in this regard."

US	3469130	Jines		Means For Shielding And Unshielding 
				 Permanent Magnets etc

US	3703653	Tracy		Magnetic Motor

US	3811058	Kiniski		Rotary-to-Reciprocating Device

US	3835365	Zoleta		Flywheel Oscillator Power System

US	3879622	Ecklin		Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion 
				 Device

US	3890548	Gray		Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric 
				 Engine

US	3899703	Kinnison	Permanent Magnet Motion conversion 
				 Means

US	3914004	Alexander	Method And Apparatus For Increasing 
				 Electrical Power

US	3992132	Putt		Energy Conversion System

US	4004210	Yater		Reversible Thermoelectric Converter

US	4006401	DeRivas		Electromagnetic Generator

US	4024421	Teal		Magnetically Operable Engine

US	4077001	Richardson	Electromagnetic Convertor With 
				 Stationary Variable-Reluctance 
				 Members

US	4084408	van Platen	Method of recovering energy by means
				 of a cyclic thermodynamic process

US	4113589	Leach		High Intensity Energy Transfer
				 Technique

US	4148701	Leach		High Efficiency Energy Transfer System

US	4151431	Johnson		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	4179633	Kelly		Magnetic Wheel Drive

US	4207773			Magnetic Piston Machine

US	4215330	Hartman		Permanent magnet propulsion system

US	4305024	Kuroki		Magnetic Motor

US	4394230	Puharich	Method and Apparatus For Splitting
				 Water

US	4428193	Papp		Noble Gas Engine

US	4443776	Cunningham	Rotary Magnetic Device
				 (Real Permanent Magnet Motor)

US	4500827	Merritt,
		Pasichinskyj	Linear Reciprocating Electrical
				 Generator

US	4567407	Ecklin		Biased Unitized Motor Alternator

US	4772816	Spence		Energy Conversion System. 
				 An interesting device that uses 
				 a magnetostatic field to increase
				 the potential of orbiting electrons

US	4826581	Meyer		Controlled Process For The Production
				 Of Thermal Energy etc

US	4835433	Brown		Apparatus For Direct Conversion
				 Of Radioactive Decay Energy To
				 Electrical Energy

US	4877983	Johnson		Magnetic Force Generating Methods
				 & Apparatus

US	4897592	Hyde		Electrostatic Energy Field Power
				 Generating System

US	4904926	Pasichinskyj	Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator

US	4975608	Aspen		Switched Reluctance Motor With
				 Full AC commutation

US	5018180	Shoulders	Energy Conversion Using High Charge
				 Density

US	5065085	Aspden,
		Strachan	Thermoelectric Energy Conversion

US	5146395	McKie		Power Supply Including Two Tank
				 Circuits

US	5191258	German		Electric current generator including
				 torque reducing countermagnetic field

US	5372688	Patterson	System For Electrolysis Of Liquid
				 Electrolyte

US	5402021	Johnson		Magnetic propulsion system

US	5416391	Correa		Electromechanical transduction of
				 plasma pulses

US	5436518	Kawai		Motive power generating device

US	5449989	Correa		Energy Conversion System

US	5502354	Correa		Direct current energized pulse
				 generator utilizing autogenous
				 cyclical pulsed abnormal glow
				 discharges

Good reading to you all.

Any more to add, just let me know.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 02:44:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA00607; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:35:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 02:35:21 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Philadelphia Experiment.
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:34:43 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315103441.AAA24269 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"U89WJ1.0.P9.djdAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4920
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

I think that Berry Merriman's put-down of the Philadelpia Experiment
is uncalled for.

Benjamin Franklin was and is considered to be a pioneer in theoretical
and experimental science.

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 05:36:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA08298; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 05:13:23 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 05:13:23 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: O-U Plating Baths?
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:12:46 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315131244.AAA4950 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"-Cxdh1.0.a12.p1gAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4921
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Seems to that if electrolysis is doing things at a pre-plated 
surface there should be something going on while one is doing the
plating.

Here are some plating recipes.

Metal&compounds       Grams/Liter    oz./gallon   Temp   Amps/ft^2

Cadmium
Cadmium oxide CdO       30              4          amb     1.6-5
NaCN (poison!)          90              12       
Nickel Sulphate NiSO4   1.0             0.13
Goulac                  12              1.6

Nickel
NiSO4.7 H2O             240              32         50-60 C 19-47
NiCl2.6 H2O             45               6       (pH 1.5-3.0 or 4.5-5.6)
Boric Acid H3BO4        30               4

Silver
AgCl                     39              4.7 (troy)   24-32  5-10
KCN (poison!)                     70              9.3 
K2CO3                    38              5.0

Lead (Fluosilicate Soln)
PbSiF6                   80              10.75       35-40 C   5-80
H2SiF6                   150             20          
Glue                     0.2             0.025

Lead (Fluoborate Soln)
PbOH2.PbCO3              150             20          25-40 C     9.3-19
Hf (50%)                 240             32
Boric Acid               105             14
Glue                     0.2             0.025

Tin
Na2SnO3.3 H2O            90               12           60-80 C   10-25
NaOH                     7.5              1.0
CH3-CO-ONa               15               2  (this is just vinegar reacted
                                              with NaOH,sodium acetate)
H2O2 (100 vol %)         0.5              0.062   (use 3% store bought)

Add a few moles of "Light Electrons-Positrons" to get the (1H1*)or (1H2*)
small atoms and measure heat and radiation output from cells? <g>

Regards,    Frederick


 



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 06:10:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA26165; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 05:59:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 05:59:26 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:49:58 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703151349.HAA20825 dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com>
From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall)
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment.
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"6wV4W.0.jO6.wigAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4922
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

You wrote: 
>
>Vortexians:
>
>I think that Berry Merriman's put-down of the Philadelpia Experiment
>is uncalled for.
>
>Benjamin Franklin was and is considered to be a pioneer in theoretical
>and experimental science.
>
>Regards,     Frederick
>
>

3/15/97

Barry is correct.  Please read Electric Space Craft Journal's excellent 
evaluation of the Philadelphia Experiment.  There is a great deal of 
myth associated with the Philadelphia Experiment.

RWW

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 06:40:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA27297; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:29:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:29:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:19:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970315091950_-1973594322 emout13.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
cc: David bahnhof.se
Subject: Re:  St. Petersburg Proceedings
Resent-Message-ID: <"T4uIi.0.Rg6.K9hAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4923
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

David Jonsson,

Thanks for posting the table of contents.

Alex Frolov said a long time ago that I. S. Filimonenko might give a lecture
at the conference, but I didn't see Filimonenko's name in the table of
contents that you posted.

Frolov posted some information about Filimonenko on Scott Hazen Mueller's
*Fusion Digest* forum, back in the days when many members of Vortex-L still
followed it.

(Frolov may have posted some information about Filimonenko here on Vortex-L,
too, but since I didn't become a subscriber to Vortex-L until December 1996,
I would have missed anything before then.)

Frolov posted a summary of an article in a Russian magazine saying that
Filimonenko claimed to have discovered the Fleischmann-Pons effect about four
decades ago.  He may still be trying to commercialize it.  I tried to contact
Filimonenko once but without success.

Did Filimonenko attend the St. Petersburg conference?  

Did you hear anything there about his CF work?

Is there anything about Filimonenko's CF work in any of the papers in the St.
Petersburg proceedings?

Did any other member of Vortex-L attend the conference?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 07:15:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA13827; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:52:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:52:14 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment.
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:51:36 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315145134.AAA8691 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"5ybuB3.0.wN3.SUhAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4924
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:49 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Richard Wayne Wall wrote:
>You wrote: 
>>
>>Vortexians:
>>
>>I think that Barry Merriman's put-down of the Philadelpia Experiment
>>is uncalled for.
>>
>>Benjamin Franklin was and is considered to be a pioneer in theoretical
>>and experimental science.
>>
>>Regards,     Frederick
>>
>>
>
>3/15/97
>
>Barry is correct.  Please read Electric Space Craft Journal's excellent 
>evaluation of the Philadelphia Experiment.  There is a great deal of 
>myth associated with the Philadelphia Experiment.
>
>RWW
>
Fell for it, didn't you?    <VBG> :-)

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 07:24:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA14404; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:01:34 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:01:34 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af505970275c [199.237.131.243]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:04:56 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Resent-Message-ID: <"dA1jz1.0.-W3.CdhAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4925
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Vortexians:
>
>Seems to that if electrolysis is doing things at a pre-plated
>surface there should be something going on while one is doing the
>plating.
>
>Here are some plating recipes.
>
[snip]
>Lead (Fluosilicate Soln)
>PbSiF6                   80              10.75       35-40 C   5-80
>H2SiF6                   150             20
>Glue                     0.2             0.025
>
>Lead (Fluoborate Soln)
>PbOH2.PbCO3              150             20          25-40 C     9.3-19
>Hf (50%)                 240             32
>Boric Acid               105             14
>Glue                     0.2             0.025
[snip]
>Add a few moles of "Light Electrons-Positrons" to get the (1H1*)or (1H2*)
>small atoms and measure heat and radiation output from cells? <g>
>
>Regards,    Frederick

If light electrons existed, light pairs should be manufactured in lead
atoms spontaneously from the vacuum. Lead should spontaneously emit k-band
and all other forms of radiation as electrons fall from outer shells
inwards, due to k-shell elecrons forming pairs with light positrons and
floating out of the nucleus.  However, the light electrons accelerated
toward the nulceus, could not bind due to lack of light neutrinos, so might
end up simply replacing electrons in the lead atom. In this case the lead
atom would be a kind of phoenix birthing ground for light leptons, creating
them near the nucleus only to have the positrons annihilate with light
electrons occupying the inner shells due to prior pair formations.

Another consideration is that the extreme energies of the light leptons in
the vicinity of the nucleus and interacting with the dense electron cloud
should produce Brehmstrahlung.

Why is there no evidence of this?

It appears a simple lead electrode (at least lead anode if DC) arc would be
a very good source of light electrons. Other obvious candidates would be
Hg, Tl, Bi, Po, At, Rn, and heavier elements.

Also, more difficult to detect, light pairs should be created in atomic
cores of much lighter than lead ions upon high voltage collisions with
cathodes.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 08:16:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA18060; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:53:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 07:53:20 -0800
Date: 15 Mar 97 10:51:48 EST
From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
Message-ID: <970315155148_76016.2701_JHC89-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"7d3bn.0.6Q4.lNiAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4926
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

John Logajan correctly writes:

>The "Good Times" virus is a hoax.  It was a hoax the last time
>it came around, as well as the previous dozen times it has
>come around.  There aint no such thing.

Yes, but wouldn't it now be a great trick to write such a virus
and distribute?  (hee hee hee)

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 08:39:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA20904; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:15:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:15:55 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:15:14 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315161512.AAA11087 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"tjNgr1.0.Y65.viiAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4927
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 03:04 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Horace Hefner wrote:
>
>If light electrons existed, light pairs should be manufactured in lead
>atoms spontaneously from the vacuum.

Vacuum smacuum,<g>  dE = hbar/dt, if you put enough energy into getting
something between 0.4, 54.4, and 7520 ev to get the light pairs from the
collision so that this equation is satisfied, you are not getting anything
for nothing.

> Lead should spontaneously emit k-band
>and all other forms of radiation as electrons fall from outer shells
>inwards, due to k-shell electrons forming pairs with light positrons and
>floating out of the nucleus.

Don't think so. The positive unit shouldn't do anything other than what a
proton would do if it ever formed near the nucleus. The negative unit would
also come out of the atom in a hurry.


>However, the light electrons accelerated
>toward the nucleus, could not bind due to lack of light neutrinos, so might
>end up simply replacing electrons in the lead atom.

Since when do you need light neutrinos for positronium, the observed bound
state of a regular electron-positron? The only reason the positron
annihilates is because other electrons in the region annihilate with it in a
matter of nanoseconds.

>In this case the lead
>atom would be a kind of phoenix birthing ground for light leptons, creating
>them near the nucleus only to have the positrons annihilate with light
>electrons occupying the inner shells due to prior pair formations.

Very poetic, <g> Other than the energy given to matter by friction-agitation
the best place to get natural light electrons-positrons is from the
1,000,000 degree plus chromosphere-corona UV - X-Ray  54.4 - 1 kev radiation
from the Sun that is hitting the Earth's upper atmosphere. The 54.4 ev
ionization energy of Helium and all of the radiation from the Carbon,
Nitrogen, Oxygen, Calcium XV 
and Iron XIV from the Sun should create the 54.4 ev light pairs. I see
little chance for many if any of the 7520 ev pairs in any quantity. The 0.4
ev pairs if made can be made anywhere in the atmosphere or from a lightbulb.

Don't discount the possibility that thosetanker trucks going down the road
dragging a "static chain" or the high velocity water jets scubbing out
supertanker holds are creating the light pairs in situ. there have been
explosions in the super tankers from the sparks from this "static electricity"
setting off the fuel vapors. Might have been a cause in Flight 800 also.
>
>Another consideration is that the extreme energies of the light leptons in
>the vicinity of the nucleus and interacting with the dense electron cloud
>should produce Brehmstrahlung.
>
>Why is there no evidence of this?

Probably because it isn't so. You have to have momentum (mo*gamma*c)to get
bremsstrahlung, you just don't have it with the lights until you get into
the Mev range with gammas of 137 to 137^2 and then you will think that it is
a regular electron or positron. <g>
>
>It appears a simple lead electrode (at least lead anode if DC) arc would be
>a very good source of light electrons. Other obvious candidates would be
>Hg, Tl, Bi, Po, At, Rn, and heavier elements.

Perhaps, but, if 54.4 ev is the magic number you will never see ions with
that kind of energy in a 12 volt arc which is all you will get.
>
>Also, more difficult to detect, light pairs should be created in atomic
>cores of much lighter than lead ions upon high voltage collisions with
>cathodes.

I agree. It all goes back to doing the right experiments to find
them,doesn't it?
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
>
Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 09:29:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24260; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:53:54 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:53:54 -0800
Message-ID: <332AE1EB.53C6 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 03:22:43 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net,
        freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: OU? [atent List Update.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"DLekL2.0.vw5.WGjAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4928
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi All,

The just posted list of OU? patents didn't list Joseph Newman's patent
application details.  I asked Evan Soule to provide the details. 
However you view the Newman motor, it is a forever item in the search
for OU and should be included in the OU? list.  

My personal view is that there are elements of Joe's work that can't be
rejected, and should be further studied.  

A review of the patents listed, causes me to have serious concerns about
the US patent system.  On  several of the patents, I have a real concern
as to the validity of the claims and the basic of patent issue.  Maybe I
just don't understand the basic for US patent numbers to be awarded.  

In a very naive and simple way, I thought that patents were for real
world, working ideas.  Working models which demonstrated to the patent
dept that the ideas were based on actual, physical working units which
could deliver the GOODS as claimed.

>From a review of some of the following patents, i believe that is NOT
so.  I see no reason, based on the following discussion, why Joseph
Newman's work should not be included with a patent number.  

My view, but what do I know?

Anyway here is the updated OU? patent list.  Additions welcome.

Current list of reported OU patents (compiled by Greg Watson & Fred Epps
15/3/97)

Country  Number	Inventor	Invention

US	 179474 Joseph Newman	Energy Machine		
				 Continuation-in-Part of the Prior 
				 Copending Application filed 
				 January 9, 1980, which is also a 
				 Continuation-in-Part of the earlier
				 Patent Application filed in 1979
				 which remains a Pending Patent 
				 Application in the United States.

US	 600457	Stubblefield	Electric Battery. Apparently used 
				 a 'forgotten' EM effect called the 
				 Magnetovoltaic Effect. I (Fred Epps)
				 will be posting an article about 
				 this effect soon.

US	 685957	Tesla		Apparatus For The Utilization Of 
				 Radiant Energy

US	1826727	Britteny	"Radio Apparatus.  Not in itself an 
				 overunity device, but part of a 
				 system that powered his house 
				 for years."

US	1835721	Powell		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859643	Worthington	Permanent Magnet Motor

US	1859764	Bougon		Magnetic Device

US	1963213	Poysa		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	2115578	Hall		Radiant Energy Receiver

US	2279690	Lindsey		Motor/Generator Unit

UK	2282708	Aspden,
		Adams		Patent Application

US	3249944	Srockman	Electromagnetic Transduction 
				 Utilizing Radiant Energy

US	3374376	Kromrey		Electric Generator

US	3386883	Farnsworth	Method And Apparatus For Producing

US	3403323			"Parametric Transformer.  No 
				 overunity claims have been made 
				 for this device, but I (Fred Epps) 
				 feel that parametric devices have 
				 potential in this regard."

US	3469130	Jines		Means For Shielding And Unshielding 
				 Permanent Magnets etc

US	3703653	Tracy		Magnetic Motor

US	3811058	Kiniski		Rotary-to-Reciprocating Device

US	3835365	Zoleta		Flywheel Oscillator Power System

US	3879622	Ecklin		Permanent Magnet Motion Conversion 
				 Device

US	3890548	Gray		Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric 
				 Engine

US	3899703	Kinnison	Permanent Magnet Motion conversion 
				 Means

US	3914004	Alexander	Method And Apparatus For Increasing 
				 Electrical Power

US	3992132	Putt		Energy Conversion System

US	4004210	Yater		Reversible Thermoelectric Converter

US	4006401	DeRivas		Electromagnetic Generator

US	4024421	Teal		Magnetically Operable Engine

US	4077001	Richardson	Electromagnetic Convertor With 
				 Stationary Variable-Reluctance 
				 Members

US	4084408	van Platen	Method of recovering energy by means
				 of a cyclic thermodynamic process

US	4113589	Leach		High Intensity Energy Transfer
				 Technique

US	4148701	Leach		High Efficiency Energy Transfer System

US	4151431	Johnson		Permanent Magnet Motor

US	4179633	Kelly		Magnetic Wheel Drive

US	4207773			Magnetic Piston Machine

US	4215330	Hartman		Permanent magnet propulsion system

US	4305024	Kuroki		Magnetic Motor

US	4394230	Puharich	Method and Apparatus For Splitting
				 Water

US	4428193	Papp		Noble Gas Engine

US	4443776	Cunningham	Rotary Magnetic Device
				 (Real Permanent Magnet Motor)

US	4500827	Merritt,
		Pasichinskyj	Linear Reciprocating Electrical
				 Generator

US	4567407	Ecklin		Biased Unitized Motor Alternator

US	4772816	Spence		Energy Conversion System. 
				 An interesting device that uses 
				 a magnetostatic field to increase
				 the potential of orbiting electrons

US	4826581	Meyer		Controlled Process For The Production
				 Of Thermal Energy etc

US	4835433	Brown		Apparatus For Direct Conversion
				 Of Radioactive Decay Energy To
				 Electrical Energy

US	4877983	Johnson		Magnetic Force Generating Methods
				 & Apparatus

US	4897592	Hyde		Electrostatic Energy Field Power
				 Generating System

US	4904926	Pasichinskyj	Magnetic Motion Electrical Generator

US	4975608	Aspen		Switched Reluctance Motor With
				 Full AC commutation

US	5018180	Shoulders	Energy Conversion Using High Charge
				 Density

US	5065085	Aspden,
		Strachan	Thermoelectric Energy Conversion

US	5146395	McKie		Power Supply Including Two Tank
				 Circuits

US	5191258	German		Electric current generator including
				 torque reducing countermagnetic field

US	5372688	Patterson	System For Electrolysis Of Liquid
				 Electrolyte

US	5402021	Johnson		Magnetic propulsion system

US	5416391	Correa		Electromechanical transduction of
				 plasma pulses

US	5436518	Kawai		Motive power generating device

US	5449989	Correa		Energy Conversion System

US	5502354	Correa		Direct current energized pulse
				 generator utilizing autogenous
				 cyclical pulsed abnormal glow
				 discharges

Enjoy.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 09:53:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA29935 for billb@eskimo.com; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:53:39 -0800
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:53:39 -0800
X-Envelope-From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com  Sat Mar 15 09:53:36 1997
Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA29914 for <vortex-l eskimo.com>; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:53:35 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Received: (from root localhost)
	  by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0)
	  id MAA29897 for vortex-l eskimo.com;
	  Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:53:01 -0500 (EST)
Old-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:53:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970315125300_-1405202931 emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: help
X-Diagnostic: help sent
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This nuclear course, I'm just trying to keep my head above water.  We are
into quantum electrodynamics,  Hammalton Jacoby's therom, expectation values,
isospin, doubly magic nucleons, the square well, the simple harmonic well,
monopoles, dipoles, and octapoles, parity, spin (my head is spinning), and
the character sigh (looks like a pitch fork) is placed in integrals all over
the blackboard... I know not what to make of it.

Anyway the term l*s , the dot product of nuclear orbital angular momentum and
nuclear spin equals the energy of the state.   This is where I am at...a
little behind...when I multiply angular momentum times angular momentum I get
angular momentum squared...not energy...I think I have missed the boat on
this one...any ideas...

Frank Znidarsic

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 10:16:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA09686; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:05:55 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:05:55 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130500af50a1bb79a6 [153.34.200.124]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:59:02 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment.
Resent-Message-ID: <"PnSlU.0.EN2.0KkAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4931
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Vortexians:
>
>I think that Berry Merriman's put-down of the Philadelpia Experiment
>is uncalled for.
>
>Benjamin Franklin was and is considered to be a pioneer in theoretical
>and experimental science.
>
>Regards,     Frederick

I hope you're not suggesting that Mr. Merriman "go fly a kite."

Best wishes, Evan


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 10:19:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA30380; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:56:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:56:41 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:56:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970315125559_-1137022704 emout15.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Fwd: advice please
Resent-Message-ID: <"CFR3O1.0.bQ7.NBkAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4930
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    help
Date:    97-03-15 12:53:04 EST
From:    FZNIDARSIC
To:      vortex-l eskimo.com

This nuclear course, I'm just trying to keep my head above water.  We are
into quantum electrodynamics,  Hammalton Jacoby's therom, expectation values,
isospin, doubly magic nucleons, the square well, the simple harmonic well,
monopoles, dipoles, and octapoles, parity, spin (my head is spinning), and
the character sigh (looks like a pitch fork) is placed in integrals all over
the blackboard... I know not what to make of it.

Anyway the term l*s , the dot product of nuclear orbital angular momentum and
nuclear spin equals the energy of the state.   This is where I am at...a
little behind...when I multiply angular momentum times angular momentum I get
angular momentum squared...not energy...I think I have missed the boat on
this one...any ideas...

Frank Znidarsic

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 10:16:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA29872; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:53:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:53:02 -0800
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:52:22 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703151752.LAA29489 dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>
From: rwall ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall)
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment.
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"sqKPD2.0.fI7.y7kAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4929
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Fred wrote: 
>
>At 01:49 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Richard Wayne Wall wrote:
>>You wrote: 
>>>
>>>Vortexians:
>>>
>>>I think that Barry Merriman's put-down of the Philadelpia Experiment
>>>is uncalled for.
>>>
>>>Benjamin Franklin was and is considered to be a pioneer in 
theoretical
>>>and experimental science.
>>>
>>>Regards,     Frederick
>>>
>>>
>>
>>3/15/97
>>
>>Barry is correct.  Please read Electric Space Craft Journal's 
>>excellent evaluation of the Philadelphia Experiment.  There is a 
>>great deal of myth associated with the Philadelphia Experiment.
>>
>>RWW
>>
>Fell for it, didn't you?    <VBG> :-)
>
>Regards,     Frederick
>
>

Did I?  Of course, you've read the ESJ article.  Time to tell the 
truth, now, Fred.

RWW

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 11:29:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA14227; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:14:37 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:14:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130502af50a7dceaa4 [153.34.202.193]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:16:17 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"Iprny3.0.DU3.PKlAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4932
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>From: Murray Orrick
>Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:24:47 -0800
>Subject: What's the deal with the patent?
>
>Hi all,
>I have been passively observing this list for a few months now and am
>excited to see more interest in actually building motors & generators
>based on Joe's theories.  I am a musician/audio engineer and am not
>interested in building a device myself (not my bag), though I am very
>interested in seeing over-unity and free energy devices take over energy
>production on our planet.  I of course would love to have my house and
>my car powered by such technology, but more importantly all of us need
>to have access to it.
>
>So for mass commercialization, we need to get Joe his patent.  I find it
>absolutely ridiculous and quite frustrating that patents have been
>awarded to other inventors of OU devices, while Joe has been denied.
>WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?????
>
>Let's make the patent office (or whoever is in charge there) take notice
>and give Joe his patent for God's sake!
>
>Evan, you have been doing a terrific job in providing a forum for Joe's
>ideas, and have been a leader in championing Joe's cause.  What can we
>all do to help Joe get his patent?  What can I do?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Murray Orrick
>
>

Dear Murray --

As they say, "I GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION!"

There is something every individual can do -- if possible:

It is time to rekindle what was done some years ago -- and the opportunity
for success is greater _now_ than then:

As many of you may know, at one point ELEVEN different U.S. CONGRESSMEN
(both Democrats and Republicans) introduced eleven different (but
identically worded) Private Relief Bills to have Congress issue Joseph
Newman a patent directly.  There is precedence for this, and Congress does
have the power to do this since it usually delegates its power in this
regard to the Executive Branch (PTO).

At that time, all ELEVEN Bills were blocked by _one_ Congressman:
Congressman Robert Kastenmeier from Wisconsin.  His argument: the case was
currently pending in the Federal Court in Washington and he was unwilling
(as Chairman of the Subcommittee in question where all 11 Bills were
referred) to hold hearings on the eleven Bills.  We, of course, thought his
attitude was ridiculous --- since our position was, "Since when was the
Legislative Branch of government dependent upon what the Judicial Branch of
government was doing?"

But there is something EVEN MORE REVEALING:

Those 11 Congressmen were totally frustrated with Kastenmeier and his lack
of action on their legislation.  At one point it got so bad that several of
the Congressman in support of Joe had written very direct, pointed letters
to Kastenmeier requesting IMMEDIATE ACTION on their legislation.  In many
case Kastenmeier DID NOT EVEN RESPOND to his fellow colleagues' letters (I
understand that this is considered a serious breach of normal Congressional
behavior).

Well, the following is a _direct quote_ from a reply from Kastenmeier to a
supporter who had originally written Kastenmeier on Joe's behalf:

"At the present, because the issues of patentability are pending in court,
we have no plans to conduct hearings on this issue.  YOU SHOULD ALSO KNOW
THAT OFFICIALS OF PRESIDENT REAGAN HAVE INDICATED THEIR OPPOSITION TO MR.
NEWMAN'S PRIVATE RELIEF BILLS.  THUS, UNLESS THE PRESIDENT CHANGES HIS
POSITION, LEGISLATION ON THIS TOPIC IS UNLIKELY."  [Emphasis added.]

__________________________________________________________

When I read these words I was astonished.  So were a number of U.S.
Congressmen!!!

My real question to Kastenmeier:  Since when did a DEMOCRATIC member
(Kastenmeier) of the _Legislative_ Branch of Government care about the
position of a REPUBLICAN President (_Executive_ Branch of Government)?

Something is very wrong here.  This was one of the clues which led us to
understand that those wielding (political) power to stop/delay the
implementation of this technology were controlling not only the several
branches of government, but also members of BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES in
government.

And Congressman Livingston (one of the 11 Congressmen) wrote to Kastenmeier:

"Dear Bob (Kastenmeier):

"I have recently seen a copy of the correspondence which your Subcommittee
is sending to individuals who contact you about the Joseph Newman/U.S.
Patent Office dispute.

"Your letter states that the private legislation now pending which would
grant Joseph Newman the legal rights to his invention 'seeks to have the
Congress make a scientific judgment that the Newman invention works.'  This
is appallingly inaccurate.  These Bills do not require Congress to make any
scientific determinations at all.  They approach the issue from a strictly
legal standpoint.  More specifically, they require the Secretary of
Commerce to issue a patent to Joseph Newman based on the fact that THE
INVENTOR HAS FULFILLED ALL OF THE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS NECESSARY TO
RECEIVE A PATENT.

"The job of Patent Office officials is to determine whether or not the
inventor has complied with these requirements.  Under normal Patent Office
procedures, the evidence which Mr. Newman has submitted to demonstrate the
operability of his device would be sufficient to obtain a patent.
Unfortunately, the Patent Office has shown blatant disregard for its own
established procedures in this case.

"It is not the job of Patent Office officials to serve as a consumer
protection agency or to guarantee operability of any patented device.  If
your staff has done any research into this matter, it would know that, as
well as the fact that _many_ inventions which have received patents later
proved to be inoperable.

"The Subcommittee's letter also states that 'the NBS concluded that
Newman's invention did not produce more energy than was put into it.'  This
is true.  However, the letter fails to mention the fact that the NBS test
results are invalid since NBS officials grounded Newman's machine during
testing, something which the inventor says should not be done when testing
the device for output.  NBS officials have openly admitted this.

"Finally, the letter states that 'official representatives of President
Reagan have indicated their opposition to Mr. Newman's private relief
bills.  Thus, unless the President changes his position, legislation on
this topic is unlikely."  I would like to know who these 'official
representatives' are.  I was unaware that the President had made any
official statement on this subject, and if you could bring to my attention
any information which documents this, I would be most appreciative.

"Thank you for your time and cooperation.  I would sincerely appreciate a
response to this letter.

Sincerely,

CONGRESSMAN ROBERT L. LIVINGSTON
Member of Congress"

__________________________________________________________

Congressman Kastenmeier __NEVER__ responded to the above letter from
Congressman Livingston!  At the very least, this was considered a serious
'breach in Congressional etiquette' according to Livingston's
Administrative Assistant.
__________________________________________________________

I am happy to report (due in part to our efforts in conjunction with
residents in Wisconsin) --- that Congressman Kastenmeier was defeated in
his bid to retain his Congressional seat --- after over 30 years in
Congress.  [Side note: I was informed by Wisconsin residents that
Kastenmeier was so "entrenched" in Washington, D.C. that he did not even
have a permanent residence (physical house) in his own district --- his
"official residence" in his home District of Wisconsin was a hotel room.
His primary residence was in Washington, D.C.]

Congressman Trent Lott said, "I do not feel that the Patent Office has done
enough to process Mr. Newman's Patent Application.  Therefore, I feel that
the legislative process is now the best alternative."

Senator John Stennis said, "Mr. Newman has made repeated efforts to get his
machine patented and has encountered substantial obstacles at every turn.
If every inventor ran into as many problems in trying to get a patent as
Joseph Newman has, I doubt that we would have made much scientific progress
in the last two centuries, and we certainly would not enjoy many of the
products that we take for granted today."

Congressman Robert Livingston asks these questions, "Why has the Patent
Office, which has been entrusted by Congress with the important task of
promoting scientific progress, gone to such lengths to deny this man the
legal right to his invention?  Why has the Federal Judge's treatment of
Newman been so arbitrary and high-handed?  Why did it take four months and
over $82,000 to (incompetently) test an invention which supposedly doesn't
work, and where did the money come from?  Clearly, Joseph Newman is being
denied his Constitutional right to due process of law.  I strongly feel
that Congress should act because the Executive and Judicial branches have
failed this American citizen.  It is totally in order for Congress to grant
Joseph Newman a patent and to allow the invention to be tested where it
should have been tested a long time ago --- in the American marketplace."

Congressman Thomas Kindness stated in testimony before a Senate Hearing
held on Joseph Newman's behalf: "This is a case where extraordinary action
is appropriate.  One need only look at the convoluted, tortuous path that
this case has taken to know that Joseph Newman has been denied the
fundamental fairness and objectivity that is the right of every potential
patent holder.  When reasonable men differ, as they have in this case, the
final result should not be a decision by bureaucratic fiat, but rather an
accommodation should be reached that allows the device to rise or fall on
its own merits!  The technically-competent former head of the Patent Office
and Special Master in this case, William Schuyler, said that a patent
should be issued and in light of Judge Jackson's refusal to follow federal
law with respect to the findings of such a Special Master, I believe
Congress should step in and grant the patent; then the people can decide if
it actually works."

Congressman Wayne Dowdy said that "No one should have to endure the
treatment Joseph Newman has undergone at the hands of the United States
Patent and Trademark Office (PTO).  Instead of promoting Joseph Newman's
invention, the PTO has spent thousands of dollars to thwart him.  Joseph
Newman has submitted an impressive list of experts who substantiate his
claims.  On the other hand, tests conducted by the PTO have cast more doubt
on its methods than on the effectiveness of Mr. Newman's machine.
Furthermore, IF THE PTO DENIES THIS COUNTRY THE BENEFITS OF WHAT COULD BE A
REVOLUTIONARY ENERGY DEVICE, THEN IT OBSTINACY WOULD, IN MY MIND, BE
CRIMINAL."

Of the actions by the Executive (PTO/President Reagan), Judicial (Federal
Judge Jackson), and Legislative (Rep. Robert Kastenmeier) Branches of
government, Congressman Robert Torricelli went so far as to state that
"This is the greatest conspiracy against any one individual in the history
of humanity."

>From the very beginning, Joseph Newman has asked only for the equal
opportunity to present his invention in the marketplace with patent
protection, despite the fact that Mr. Charles H. Duell, Director of the
Patent Office, declared in 1899 that, "Everything that can be invented has
been invented."


Murray -- going back to your original question:  "What can I do?"

PLEASE, write your Congressmen and Senators and ask them to introduce new
Private Relief Bills for Joseph Newman --- since Kastenmeier is out of the
picture we have a fresh shot at this!!!  You can even make their job easy
for them by sending them a copy of the exact wording of the original eleven
Bills.  And I will be happy to mail/fax a copy of one of the Bills to
anyone requesting same (or, better yet, sent it in gif format).

The following is the original wording of the Eleven different Congressional
Private Relief Bills:

*****************************************************************
"A BILL
For the relief of Joseph W. Newman.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of Commerce,
acting through the Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks, is authorized
and directed to immediately issue a pioneer patent to Joseph W. Newman for
the invention described in the patent application numbered 179,474 and
filed in August 1980.  Such patent shall be accorded rights equal to the
rights accorded to patents issued title 35, United States Code.
*****************************************************************

Thanks for your support!!!!!

Sincerely,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 13:25:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA14601; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:01:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:01:37 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electrolysis "Heat Pump".
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 21:00:57 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315210055.AAA12248 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"P0qwK3.0.2a3.lumAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4933
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In the electrolysis of water using K+ & OH- or Na+ & OH- the battery is
transporting the K+ ion to the cathode and the OH- ion to the anode with
about 2.5 volts potential required to effect the transport.

At the anode two OH- ions give up their electrons and form two hydroxyl radicals
(OH) which react; 2 OH = H2O + O releasing about 2.4E5 joules. At the
cathode the two Na+ or K+ ions pick up the two electrons released at the
anode through the battery circuit. Then they react with the H2O, 2 K + 2 H2O
= 2 KOH + H2
releasing about another 2.4E5 joules.

The H2 + O gas can be recombined in the cell with a Manganese Dioxide (MnO2)
or Lead Dioxide (PbO2) recombiner catalyst forming water and giving off
another 2.4E5 joules.

Since the input was 2.5 volts at say 2 amperes = 5 watts/sec = 5 joules/sec
then in 4.82E4 seconds (about 13.38 hours) a mole (18 grams of water) will
have been electrolyzed and recombined releasing about three times as much
heat as the I^2*R calculation for the energy given by the power
supply-battery. <G>

A Heat Pump,Perhaps? But, if the efficiency of the power plant or the energy
it took to make-charge the battery is taken into account there is NO ENERGY O-U.

With natural gas supplying a 100,000 btu/hr furnace at a cost of
$4.00/million btus to heat a house to comfort level. as opposed to 3,413
btu's kilowatt-hour at $.10/kilowatt-hr ($29.30/million btu)/c.o.p. of 3 =
$9.77/million btu,
and having to have a ten kilowatt (2.5 volt-4,000 amp) "hydrogen bomb" in my
basement, I'll go for natural gas anytime. <g>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 13:38:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA14677; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:02:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:02:09 -0800
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:01:54 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703152101.PAA17487 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: IE#11 Fleischman Interview
Resent-Message-ID: <"sTEKp2.0.Bb3.GvmAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4934
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Just got IE#11 and it contains a very interesting interview with Martin
Fleischman conducted by Chris Tinsley.  Nice job Chris.

Chris makes several references to a CF demonstration cell that is apparently
being developed right now.  Could you give us some more info on this cell,
Chris?  Tell us about Ragland.  What is Johson Matthey Type A palladium?

Fleischmann comments are generally very credible, with one notable exception:
 On page 18, he suggests that the escape of energy in the form of hard
x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of people don't see the excess
heat effect.  

This just cannot be the case. For example, one watt of x-rays is about what
you get out of a 200 watt x-ray tube.  The exposure rate around the cell
would be astronomical.  You would get radiation sickness working near such a
cell.

 - Scott Little
 EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759
 512-342-2185 (voice)  512-346-3017 (FAX)  little eden.com (email)
 http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 14:30:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA25750; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:17:06 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:17:06 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530500af50c85696fc [199.237.131.243]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:20:17 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Resent-Message-ID: <"1HMaw.0.GI6.U_nAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4935
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>At 03:04 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Horace Hefner wrote:
>>
>>If light electrons existed, light pairs should be manufactured in lead
>>atoms spontaneously from the vacuum.
>
>Vacuum smacuum,<g>  dE = hbar/dt, if you put enough energy into getting
>something between 0.4, 54.4, and 7520 ev to get the light pairs from the
>collision so that this equation is satisfied, you are not getting anything
>for nothing.

No, there is no collision in volved. I am talking about the fact light
pairs should spring from the vacuum spontaneously. When they do, if there
is a sufficient field gradient they will be separated. Yes, energy must be
spent to maintain the field gradient, unless some mechanism exists for
disposing of some of the charge that now diminishes the field gradient for
the next round.

I ran across an article discussing this topic in regards to
electro/positron pair creation in a journal while looking up a reference on
ZPE provided by Hal Puthoff. I should have made a note about it since I
spent an unanticipated half hour reading it. It was a theoretical artcle
about "super atoms" created by heavy atom colliders. It was theorized that
if a heay nulceus (e.g. At. No. 123?) could be momentarily synthesized that
it could spontaneously generate ordinary electron positron pairs and
radiate x-rays due to the near nucleus field gradient.


>
>> Lead should spontaneously emit k-band
>>and all other forms of radiation as electrons fall from outer shells
>>inwards, due to k-shell electrons forming pairs with light positrons and
>>floating out of the nucleus.
>
>Don't think so. The positive unit shouldn't do anything other than what a
>proton would do if it ever formed near the nucleus. The negative unit would
>also come out of the atom in a hurry.


I don't think you are thinking about long term effects on lead atoms.  A
proton in the close vicinity of a lead nuceus, but outside the range of the
stron force, would cause considerable havock, readily detectable x-rays.
However, this is probably not what would happen from light positron
generation long term. Long term the electrons, at least inner shell
electrons, should be replaced by the light electrons. Due to a long history
of light positrons carrying or blasting away normal electrons.  If this is
the case then the situation should stabilize to one where the light
positrons quickly annihilate with innner shell light electrons. Outer shell
electrons might not even be affected.  The net charge inside the K shell
would be zero until the annihilation.  The light electron, headed toward
the nucleus, not being able to be captured due to a lack of light
neutrinos, would return and occupy the K shell, if "return" is even
appropriate jargon for describing a probabilistic wave packet.


>
>
>>However, the light electrons accelerated
>>toward the nucleus, could not bind due to lack of light neutrinos, so might
>>end up simply replacing electrons in the lead atom.
>
>Since when do you need light neutrinos for positronium, the observed bound
>state of a regular electron-positron? The only reason the positron
>annihilates is because other electrons in the region annihilate with it in a
>matter of nanoseconds.

I was refering to the fate of a light electron attracted toward the
nucleus. It can not be captured by the nucleus.


>>
>>Why is there no evidence of this?
>
>Probably because it isn't so. You have to have momentum (mo*gamma*c)to get
>bremsstrahlung, you just don't have it with the lights until you get into
>the Mev range with gammas of 137 to 137^2 and then you will think that it is
>a regular electron or positron. <g>


If the field gradient close to a lead nucleus is close to that required to
creare electron positro pairs it is sufficient ot acclerate light leptons
to near light speed.


>>
>>It appears a simple lead electrode (at least lead anode if DC) arc would be
>>a very good source of light electrons. Other obvious candidates would be
>>Hg, Tl, Bi, Po, At, Rn, and heavier elements.
>
>Perhaps, but, if 54.4 ev is the magic number you will never see ions with
>that kind of energy in a 12 volt arc which is all you will get.

I was thinking about a much higher voltage arc.

>>
>>Also, more difficult to detect, light pairs should be created in atomic
>>cores of much lighter than lead ions upon high voltage collisions with
>>cathodes.
>
>I agree. It all goes back to doing the right experiments to find
>them,doesn't it?

Once you get then how do you tell them apart from ordiary electrons, short
of having a mass spectrometer? I was thinking about cycloron frequency, but
you need a resonating chmber for that, true?


>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Horace Heffner
>>
>>
>Regards,     Frederick

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 14:52:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA27142; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:41:21 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:41:21 -0800 (PST)
Date: 15 Mar 97 17:39:32 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: IE#11 Fleischman Interview
Message-ID: <970315223932_100433.1541_BHG42-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"st9u41.0.0e6.EMoAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4936
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scott,

 > Chris makes several references to a CF demonstration cell that is
 > apparently being developed right now.

Did I?  I'm slipping, it must be old age setting in.

 > Could you give us some more info on this cell, Chris?

Not yet!  Keep buying the rag and all will be revealed.

 > Tell us about Ragland.

Charming fellow.  He invented the daisy-wheel printer.

 > Fleischmann comments are generally very credible, with one notable
 > exception:  On page 18, he suggests that the escape of energy in
 > the form of hard x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of
 > people don't see the excess heat effect.

Gotta remember that Martin is an FRS, and his comments may be a trifle more
substantial, albeit elliptical, than at first sight appears.

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 15:14:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA28192; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:01:36 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:01:36 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332B2A41.31DFF4F5 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:01:21 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Patent
References: <v02130502af50a7dceaa4 [153.34.202.193]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"sZtXM.0.Qu6.CfoAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4937
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Evan Soule wrote:
> 
> As many of you may know, at one point ELEVEN 
> different U.S. CONGRESSMEN
> (both Democrats and Republicans) introduced eleven different (but
> identically worded) Private Relief Bills to have Congress issue Joseph
> Newman a patent directly. 

If J. Newman had a working over unity motor, the patent issue 
would be moot. Precisely beacuse his motor does not work, the
patent issue is the thing Newman and crew like to build their
cause around.

I mean, think rationally about this for one second: Newman applies
for patent. Patent denied. All that is a matter of public record.
Newman goes on to disseminate his technology. Many people 
start using and producing Newman motors. Newman motors become the
preeminent technology. At this point Newman sues retroactively
for patent rights, and he would *trivially* win the right to a
royalty for all Newman motors ever sold.

This is precisely what happened with one of the major inventions
of our time, the laser. (Though, in that case a patent was
originally granted to someone else, and 20 years later a royalty
of around 100 million dollars was awarded to the true first
discover whose patent had been denied due to late filing).

The main difference between the history of the laser and the 
Newman motor is that the laser worked, and the Newman motor doesn't,
so the "second phase" of just compensation was never necessary.


-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 15:16:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA28335; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:03:02 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:03:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:02:17 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315230215.AAA28917 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"437Ih1.0.ew6.XgoAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4938
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In response to Scott Little's comment on the x-ray output from 200 watts
into an x-ray target say 100,000 volts at 2 milliamps.

The x-ray efficiency, e = k*Z*V where k is essentially a constant for a
metal with atomic number Z and a bombarding voltage V.

Through the work of; E. Wagner, H. Kuhlekampff, R.T. Beatty, S.K. Allison,
P. Kirkpatrick, and Wiedmann, k is between 1.1E-9 and 1.4E-9.

So for palladium, Z =46, 100,000*46*1.25E-9 =  5.75E-3 watts as x-ray
photons at 200 watts. But, with the equivalent of 2 milliamps, 1.25E16
reactions/sec in the palladium at 1.0E7 ev as fragment recoil energy, for
each reaction you are talking 20 kw. <g>

How many watts of "hard" x-ray photons out of a P&F cell?

Regards,  Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 15:46:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA27240; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:20:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:20:14 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net> (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net>)
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:19:34 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315231933.AAA4536 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"yFwSp3.0.Yf6.iwoAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4939
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I'm gonna have to quit speed reading and punching the calculator keys at the
same time. :-(

In response to Scott Little's comment on the x-ray output from 200 watts
into an x-ray target say 100,000 volts at 2 milliamps.

The x-ray efficiency, e = k*Z*V where k is essentially a constant for a
metal with atomic number Z and a bombarding voltage V.

Through the work of; E. Wagner, H. Kuhlekampff, R.T. Beatty, S.K. Allison,
P. Kirkpatrick, and Wiedmann, k is between 1.1E-9 and 1.4E-9.

So for palladium, Z =46, 100,000*46*1.25E-9 = .57 percent = 1.14 watts  
as x-ray photons at 200 watts. But, with the equivalent of 2 milliamps, 
1.25E16 reactions/sec in the palladium at 1.0E7 ev as fragment recoil
energy, for each reaction you are talking 20 kw. <g>

How many watts of "hard" x-ray photons out of a P&F cell?

Regards,  Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 16:29:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA02236; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:08:23 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:08:23 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970316000637.00686cc0 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:06:37 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: IE#11 Fleischman Interview
Resent-Message-ID: <"KjgGn.0.oY.qdpAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4942
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:01 PM 3/15/97 -0600, Scott Little wrote:

>Fleischmann comments are generally very credible, with one notable exception:
> On page 18, he suggests that the escape of energy in the form of hard
>x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of people don't see the excess
>heat effect.  
>
>This just cannot be the case. For example, one watt of x-rays is about what
>you get out of a 200 watt x-ray tube.  The exposure rate around the cell
>would be astronomical.  You would get radiation sickness working near such a
>cell.
>
> - Scott Little
> EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759


  That is not what the page says in my copy; a good issue put together by
Gene, Jed and Chris.

  Martin Fleischmann discusses what appear to be 
 ~10-120 keV xrays emitted in small levels
as reported by several groups including the US Navy.  

  Could you be more specific, please, regarding your comment?

  Where does he say "the escape of energy in the form of hard
x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of people don't see the excess
heat effect"?

  Exactly what quotes/sentences state what you claim in your post, Scott?

     Thanks.

        Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 17:15:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA01653; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:37:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:37:25 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970316003539.006df3e0 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:35:39 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"xl5fc1.0.iP.43qAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4944
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:47 PM 3/15/97 -0800, Hank Scudder wrote:
>Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>> 
>> In response to Scott Little's comment on the x-ray output from 200 watts
>> into an x-ray target say 100,000 volts at 2 milliamps.
>> 
>> The x-ray efficiency, e = k*Z*V where k is essentially a constant for a
>> metal with atomic number Z and a bombarding voltage V.
>> 
>> Through the work of; E. Wagner, H. Kuhlekampff, R.T. Beatty, S.K. Allison,
>> P. Kirkpatrick, and Wiedmann, k is between 1.1E-9 and 1.4E-9.
>> 
>> So for palladium, Z =46, 100,000*46*1.25E-9 =  5.75E-3 watts as x-ray
>> photons at 200 watts. But, with the equivalent of 2 milliamps, 1.25E16
>> reactions/sec in the palladium at 1.0E7 ev as fragment recoil energy, for
>> each reaction you are talking 20 kw. <g>
>> 
>> How many watts of "hard" x-ray photons out of a P&F cell?
>> 
>> Regards,  FrederickFrederick	
>	You lost me on the jump to 1.25E16 reactions per second. 
>Please explain more fully
>Hank Scudder
>
>

  What does not follow to me is why
Bremstrahlung electrodynamics should apply to fusion in the solid state?
The existence of an equation does not necessarily mean that it applys.
Please explain more fully.

   Thanks.


    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 17:17:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA01265; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:33:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:33:09 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:32:27 +0000
Message-ID: <19970316003225.AAA6374 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"aSFW1.0.hJ.2_pAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4943
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 11:47 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Hank Scudder wrote:

>Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>> 
>> In response to Scott Little's comment on the x-ray output from 200 watts
>> into an x-ray target say 100,000 volts at 2 milliamps.
>> 
>> The x-ray efficiency, e = k*Z*V where k is essentially a constant for a
>> metal with atomic number Z and a bombarding voltage V.
>> 
>> Through the work of; E. Wagner, H. Kuhlekampff, R.T. Beatty, S.K. Allison,
>> P. Kirkpatrick, and Wiedmann, k is between 1.1E-9 and 1.4E-9.
>> 
>> So for palladium, Z =46, 100,000*46*1.25E-9 = .0057*200 = 1.14 (watts) as
>>x-ray
>> photons at 200 watts. But, with the equivalent of 2 milliamps, 1.25E16
>> reactions/sec in the palladium at 1.0E7 ev as fragment recoil energy, for
>> each reaction you are talking 20 kw. <g>
>> 
>> How many watts of "hard" x-ray photons out of a P&F cell?
>> 
>> Regards,  Frederick.  Frederick	
>	You lost me on the jump to 1.25E16 reactions per second. 
>Please explain more fully
>Hank Scudder
>
Pulled that number out of the air Hank. Just a way of seeing how much energy
out of "2 milliamps worth" of reactions at 10 Mev each would come out of a
really ideal cell.  <g>

Dendrites went on strike for the day. :-(

Regards, Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 17:19:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA28536; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:35:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:35:37 -0800
From: hjscudde pacbell.net
Message-ID: <332B34F4.163D pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:47:00 -0800
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBXE  (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
References: <19970315230215.AAA28917 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"TEB7X.0.oz6.79pAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4940
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
> In response to Scott Little's comment on the x-ray output from 200 watts
> into an x-ray target say 100,000 volts at 2 milliamps.
> 
> The x-ray efficiency, e = k*Z*V where k is essentially a constant for a
> metal with atomic number Z and a bombarding voltage V.
> 
> Through the work of; E. Wagner, H. Kuhlekampff, R.T. Beatty, S.K. Allison,
> P. Kirkpatrick, and Wiedmann, k is between 1.1E-9 and 1.4E-9.
> 
> So for palladium, Z =46, 100,000*46*1.25E-9 =  5.75E-3 watts as x-ray
> photons at 200 watts. But, with the equivalent of 2 milliamps, 1.25E16
> reactions/sec in the palladium at 1.0E7 ev as fragment recoil energy, for
> each reaction you are talking 20 kw. <g>
> 
> How many watts of "hard" x-ray photons out of a P&F cell?
> 
> Regards,  FrederickFrederick	
	You lost me on the jump to 1.25E16 reactions per second. 
Please explain more fully
Hank Scudder

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 17:19:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA30140; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:51:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:51:45 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:50:59 +0000
Message-ID: <19970315235056.AAA17866 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"bSVoi3.0.kM7.GOpAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4941
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:20 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>Once you get then how do you tell them apart from ordiary electrons, short
>of having a mass spectrometer? I was thinking about cycloron frequency, but
>you need a resonating chmber for that, true?
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
>
Easy. You get the B field down to about 3 gauss (only about six times the
earth's magnetic field) with a pair of 4 inch diameter 72 Ampere-Turn coils.
Accelerate the lights along with the regulars at 5,000 volts and the lights
will be moving at c or close to it with a relativistic mass of 9E-33 kg and
will sweep a radius of abotu two inches. The regulars will sweep a radius of
about 30 inches. Use a zinc sulphide or such phosphor to see if the lights
are there. You might reverse the accelerator potential and look for positive
lights.

Less than a day's work if you have a vacuum chamber and a bit of ingenuity.
The power supply can be a.c. or d.c. at microamps, probably could use a
charged capacitor off an auto ignition or a coil from same. Only need a
lantern battery to run the B field coil. One might use a flashlight bulb
with the glass cut off as a filament and see if bombarding a metal foil will
make the lights. They may even come off the filament if 0.4 ev photons (or
more) can make them.

One might run a silk or rubber belt over a glass rod to see if
"electrostatic" electrons-positrons are light, if you can get a simple van
de graff setup in the vacuum chamber.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 17:47:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA08797; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:35:38 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:35:38 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332B4E59.7DE14518 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:35:21 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: IE#11 Fleischman Interview
References: <199703152101.PAA17487 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"I6FYE2.0.H92.bvqAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4945
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote:
> 

> Fleischmann comments are generally very credible, with one notable exception:
>  On page 18, he suggests that the escape of energy in the form of hard
> x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of people don't see the excess heat effect.
> 

Personally, I wouldn't find any of F's comments "credible" until
they open up their research effort to the extent where some
demonstration experiments can be observed and independently
replicated.

As for his X-ray comment, the only way it would make sense
is if he is implying that loss of *small* amounts of energy 
through X-rays prevents the ignition process which would
release many watts, like a light breeze blowing out your
match before you light the fire logs. This is the
reason that Tokamak's don't ignite, even though a considerably
large match is struck.




-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 18:00:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA08471; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:36:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:36:04 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 01:35:21 +0000
Message-ID: <19970316013519.AAA1262 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"EaLZ71.0.G42.2wqAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4946
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:35 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Mitchell Swartz wrote:

>
>  What does not follow to me is why
>Bremstrahlung electrodynamics should apply to fusion in the solid state?
>The existence of an equation does not necessarily mean that it applys.
>Please explain more fully.
>
>   Thanks.
>
>    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)
>
It is a bit difficult to see how reactions on a nuclear scale can produce
heat and/or nuclear transmutations without involving some fast moving
electrons that invariably should produce bremsstrahlung radiation in the
process. The use of electron bombardment of a metal target as an analogy
seems to be reasonable.

The idea of heat sans energetic particles from recoil or Compton Scattering
or rapid beta decay or whatever, just doesn't square with known
physics,especially neutron or proton capture.

The one watt number for "hard" x-rays that Scott gave for 200 watts of heat
on a target is what you would expect at the least, and easy to measure with
a geiger counter.

Assuming that a Supernova built the elements above nickel by neutron
addition in a hydrogen-starved environment and perhaps small hydrogen or
small deuterium can go into these "ash" elements and do  addition or fission
reactions, how do you explain away heat output without what should be lethal
amounts of photon energy?

High energy "super neutrinos" that can miss 1.0E33 atoms of lead without
interaction, perhaps?

Regards, Frederick 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 18:07:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA11049; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:56:00 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:56:00 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703160155.RAA15296 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:58:18 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: IE#11 Fleischman Interview
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <332B4E59.7DE14518 math.ucla.edu>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"TQDBC1.0.Zi2.kCrAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4947
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hey Barry your last comment about replication of P&F's is right on target. 
Since that replication is now complete in spades by Lonchampt and the French 
ACE I susppose you are fully behind that pioneering work.




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 18:38:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13169; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:27:24 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:27:24 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 20:26:35 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703160226.UAA07046 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Fleischman's words
Resent-Message-ID: <"g98z1.0.dD3.AgrAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4948
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:06 PM 3/15/97 -0500, Mitchell wrote:

>  Where does he say "the escape of energy in the form of hard
>x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of people don't see the excess
>heat effect"?

>Exactly what quotes/sentences state what you claim in your post, Scott?

p.18 top of center column

"So they had to be hard x-rays.  Those could dump their energy outside the
cell, so you can see a lot of the complications with the thermal measurement
could be just that people have missed the excess enthalpy with their cell
design; the cell is too small, it won't catch the excess energy, and in any
case it's only the lower bound that you catch, you must design a cell to
trap all the energy in the x-rays."

I can't see any other way to interpret his statement, Mitchell...can you?

Scott

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 18:56:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA14955; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:44:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:44:42 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 20:44:23 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703160244.UAA08125 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: gee thanks, Chris
Resent-Message-ID: <"yM3S83.0.Zf3.MwrAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4949
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:39 PM 3/15/97 EST, Chris wrote:

>> Could you give us some more info on this cell, Chris?

>Not yet!  Keep buying the rag and all will be revealed.

Ah, you mean it doesn't work, yet?

>> Tell us about Ragland.

>Charming fellow.  He invented the daisy-wheel printer.

great, but what has he done in CF?

>> On page 18, he suggests that the escape of energy in
>> the form of hard x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of
>> people don't see the excess heat effect.

>Gotta remember that Martin is an FRS, and his comments may be a trifle more
>substantial, albeit elliptical, than at first sight appears.

Are you trying to sidestep this with an elliptical reponse of your own?
Your response implies that you feel that F is correct about this...right?

Persistently,

Scott

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 19:21:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA18345; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:10:25 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:10:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970316030839.0069fcf4 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:08:39 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Fleischman's words
Resent-Message-ID: <"Wy9wn.0.ZU4.VIsAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4950
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:26 PM 3/15/97 -0600, Scott Little wrote:
>At 07:06 PM 3/15/97 -0500, Mitchell wrote:
>
>>  Where does he say "the escape of energy in the form of hard
>>x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of people don't see the excess
>>heat effect"?
>
>>Exactly what quotes/sentences state what you claim in your post, Scott?
>
>p.18 top of center column
>
>"So they had to be hard x-rays.  Those could dump their energy outside the
>cell, so you can see a lot of the complications with the thermal measurement
>could be just that people have missed the excess enthalpy with their cell
>design; the cell is too small, it won't catch the excess energy, and in any
>case it's only the lower bound that you catch, you must design a cell to
>trap all the energy in the x-rays."
>
>I can't see any other way to interpret his statement, Mitchell...can you?
>
>Scott
>
>

  Nope.  Upon rereflection, you appear to be correct.  


 Regarding the emissions:

   It appears to me, however, that the goal is to detect the low energy
(~10-20 keV),
extemely rare, photons exiting, (which appear to arise from a process(es)
 having a rather short half life)
rather than try to catch all the putative high energy photons.

 Therefore, IMHO, those that failed to see the excess heat did so for
reasons other
than xray emission which they failed to consider.  Some of my papers have
given a few reasons for such, and others exist too.

  Finally, in fact, the ionizing emissions looked for and observed only at
these energies (which are below Compton scattering, and are in the
photoelectric region) do NOT appear to correspond in magnitude
to the observed excess enthalpies.  The latter are of significantly greater
magnitude.  

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 19:34:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA23256; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:10:56 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 19:10:56 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970316030910.006844ac world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:09:10 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"z9EOW2.0.Ih5._IsAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4951
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:35 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Frederick wrote:

>It is a bit difficult to see how reactions on a nuclear scale can produce
>heat and/or nuclear transmutations without involving some fast moving
>electrons that invariably should produce bremsstrahlung radiation in the
>process. The use of electron bombardment of a metal target as an analogy
>seems to be reasonable.
>
>The idea of heat sans energetic particles from recoil or Compton Scattering
>or rapid beta decay or whatever, just doesn't square with known
>physics,especially neutron or proton capture.
>

  Actually, phonons must also be included in the energetic particles.
They are consistent with known physics.

Also Compton scattering is in the range of 200 keV to 2 Mev and
is above what is normally reported from the few experimenters who
have looked for the very low energy ionizing radiation associated
with some of the experiments.




>The one watt number for "hard" x-rays that Scott gave for 200 watts of heat
>on a target is what you would expect at the least, and easy to measure with
>a geiger counter.
>

  Assumes emissions which are not characteristic of these reactions.

  Hope that helps.

   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 22:20:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA13296; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 21:55:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 21:55:22 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 05:54:34 +0000
Message-ID: <19970316055432.AAA15585 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"8WAFs3.0.bF3.7juAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4952
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:09 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
>
>  Actually, phonons must also be included in the energetic particles.
>They are consistent with known physics.

They sure are. <g>
>
>Also Compton scattering is in the range of 200 keV to 2 Mev and
>is above what is normally reported from the few experimenters who
>have looked for the very low energy ionizing radiation associated
>with some of the experiments.

Compton's work showed scattering with 19.9 keV  K-line photons from molybdenum
or about 0.62 angstroms. So if you consider anything below 50 keV "soft" and
difficult to detect there could be a lot going on at this "thermal" level.
>
>   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

>From a purely speculative view if you took the atomic number of a nucleus A
and assumed that there are 3 "quarks" in each proton and 4 "quarks" plus a
neutrino in each neutron, then there would be 5A entities in each nucleus to
"share" a 
*settling in" energy for the nucleus upon uptake of a small hydrogen or
small deuteron.

Then an uptake by a nucleus that is supposed to give off around 20 Mev is
dividing; 20 Mev/5A, which for palladium would be;
20 Mev/5*106 = 37,736 ev/subunit. Sort of like shaking the basket to settle
the wheat (phonons and all).<g> Nice thing about phonons in a lattice as
opposed to isolated, ie., gas atoms, the entire lattice takes part in
absorbing the reaction energy.

>From this conjecture, it might also be possible that stable fission 
products could split off in a similar manner. There could be a world of
difference between the uptake of a thermal neutron, or a proton that has to
be coming in with the Mev range kinetic energy necessary to get over the
potential barrier. On the other hand uptake of a thermal neutron by boron 10
to yield an alpha and lithium 7 plus a few Mev is a "thermal level"
reaction,isn't it? Maybe a few "delta rays" of a few kev from the alpha
particle.

Nice thing about the laws of nature, they are not determined by popular
vote. <g>

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 15 23:17:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA07406; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:06:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130500af514d2b673f [153.34.204.118]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 02:08:33 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"bxMeR2.0.dp1.2mvAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4953
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Evan Soule wrote:
>>
>> As many of you may know, at one point ELEVEN
>> different U.S. CONGRESSMEN
>> (both Democrats and Republicans) introduced eleven different (but
>> identically worded) Private Relief Bills to have Congress issue Joseph
>> Newman a patent directly.
>
>If J. Newman had a working over unity motor, the patent issue
>would be moot. Precisely beacuse his motor does not work, the
>patent issue is the thing Newman and crew like to build their
>cause around.

Well, thank you Barry:  who is an obvious "expert" on this technology and
the facts of patent law relative to this case.  Precisely speaking, Joseph
Newman's Motor/Generator _does_ work.  And, Mr. Merriman, we would not need
to "build a cause around" anything if PROVEN technical incompetents like
ex-patent examiner Donovan F. Duggan had followed patent law.

[BTW, Joseph Newman has _NEVER_ termed his system 'over-unity': he
explicitly terms his system "Greater External Energy Output Than External
Energy Input."]

>
>I mean, think rationally about this for one second: Newman applies
>for patent. Patent denied. All that is a matter of public record.
>Newman goes on to disseminate his technology. Many people
>start using and producing Newman motors. Newman motors become the
>preeminent technology. At this point Newman sues retroactively
>for patent rights, and he would *trivially* win the right to a
>royalty for all Newman motors ever sold.
>
>This is precisely what happened with one of the major inventions
>of our time, the laser. (Though, in that case a patent was
>originally granted to someone else, and 20 years later a royalty
>of around 100 million dollars was awarded to the true first
>discover whose patent had been denied due to late filing).
>
>The main difference between the history of the laser and the
>Newman motor is that the laser worked, and the Newman motor doesn't,
>so the "second phase" of just compensation was never necessary.
>
>--
>Barry Merriman
>Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
>Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
>email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

Once again, Mr. Merriman -- the Newman Motor/Generator DOES work.  If you
wish to believe it doesn't, this is certainly your property, inaccurate as
it may be.

And as far as Gordon Gould is concerned (re the laser) -- this poor man had
to battle 30 years (NOT 20 years) for his rights as the true inventor of
the technology. (I have no doubt that he had his fair share of naysayers
and pathological 'sceptics'.)  What has happened to him --- just as what
has been happening to Joseph Newman --- is a _travesty_.  And who is most
injured by such treatment of innovators?  Answer: all of humanity.  What we
have permanently lost are the creative innovations of such individuals like
Mr. Gould who could have invested the time and money (due him for his
innovation) into other inventions which would benefit all of us.

Well, having been battling for his patent for 15 years, Joseph Newman is at
the halfway mark of Gould's 30 year battle -- and if Joseph Newman must
fight for his rights for another 15 years, so be it.  Moreover, Joseph
Newman is doing everything he can to bring his technology into production.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 01:04:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA32252; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:41:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:41:37 -0800
Message-Id: <199703160841.JAA32196 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 09:37:00 CET
Subject: How to contact Finsrud
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"Mjp_V.0.pt7.09xAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4954
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Your local Norwegian Tourist Office should be able to supply you with the 
opening hours of Finsruds Art Gallery no 1 (not no 2), which may change 
with season.

The tourist information office in Oslo certainly advertises information 
about the art gallery, including opening hours.

The most direct way of contacting Finsrud is to take bus 541 from central 
Oslo (near City Hall), and ask the driver to drop you off at Finsruds 
gallery no 1 at "Riksvei 153".

The next most direct way is to phone him at (+47) 64 93 23 99.

One could mail him at 

Finsrud
N-1440 Droebak
Norway

but this is not recommended as he receives too much mail to read and answer 
it all.

For info you could also contact Frode Olsen, who is in freqent contact with 
Finsrud. Frode has been active publishing info about Finsruds machine on 
the Internet. I am not sure of Frode's Internet address, but his web home 
page address has been (still is?)

www.internet.no/frodeo

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 01:05:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA13289; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:54:43 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:54:43 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <332BC454.70C0 rt66.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 01:58:45 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, wireless@rmii.com, f.beg@ic.ac.uk,
        kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp, claytor_t_n@lanl.gov, dennis@wazoo.com,
        ine padrak.com, design73@aol.com, peter@itim.org.soroscj.ro,
        drom vxcern.cern.ch, 74750.1231@compuserve.com,
        bockris chemvx.chem.tamu.edu, blue@pilot.msu.edu, mica@world.std.com,
        76570.2270 compuserve.com
Subject: Ditmere "Nature" summary: laser pulses on xenon produce 1 Mev ions
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"TDldJ3.0.ZF3.HLxAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4955
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This summary is from Nature.com  :

High-energy ions produced in explosions of superheated atomic
                                          clusters 
                                          Efficient conversion of
electromagnetic energy to particle energy is of
                                          fundamental importance in many
areas of physics. A promising avenue for
                                          producing matter with
unprecedented energy densities is by heating atomic
                                          clusters, an intermediate form
of matter between molecules and solids, with
                                          high-intensity, ultra-short
light pulses. Studies of noble- gas clusters heated
                                          with high-intensity
(>1016Wcm-2) laser pulses indicate that a highly ionized,
                                          very high temperature
micro-plasma is produced. The explosion of these
                                          superheated clusters ejects
ions with substantial kinetic energy. Here the
                                          authors report the direct
measurement of the ion energy distributions
                                          resulting from these
explosions. They find, in the case of laser-heated xenon
                                          clusters, that such explosions
produce xenon ions with kinetic energies up to
                                          1MeV. This energy is four
orders of magnitude higher than that achieved in
                                          the Coulomb explosion of small
molecules, indicating a fundamental
                                          difference in the nature of
intense laser--matter interactions between
                                          molecules and clusters.
Moreover, it demonstrates that access to an
                                          extremely high temperature
state of matter is now possible with small-scale
                                          lasers. 
                                          T Ditmire, J W G Tisch, E
Springate, M B Mason, N Hay, 
                                          R A Smith, J Marangos & M H R
Hutchinson 
                                          High-energy ions produced in
explosions of superheated atomic
                                          clusters (Letter to Nature) 
                                          Nature 386, 54 (1997)

(End of quote)   This result, similar to old reports of anomalous
spectra from high voltage electric sparks off various electrodes in
krypton, air,  and vacuum, as well as anomalous spectra from
electrically exploded wires, could indicate unexpected nuclear
reactions.  The resulting ions could be studied via mass spectroscopy,
optical and ultraviolet spectra taken, and possible radiation and high
energy particle emission determined.

The following extracts from my post of Oct. 27, 1996, gives a useful
summary and list of old research:

R.A. Sawyer and A.L.Becker (1923), Astrophysical Journal, 51, p.37-113,
"The Explosion Spectra of the Alkaline Earth Elements", University of
Michigan, put a spark from a 40,000 volt, 0.3 MF capacitor on a fine
asbestos fiber in air: "...50 calories or so,...The temperature of the
explosion is probably about 15,000 degrees C. and the pressure 10 to 20
atmospheres."  The fiber had been dipped in water solutions of MgCl2,
CaCl2, SrCl2, or BaCl2, giving about 1-2 mg sample of solids per spark. 
The fiber was reused dozens of times.  From six to twenty sparks were
needed for each spectrum:  "...because of the high pressure and gaseous
velocities in the explosion, the lines were rather broad.  The problem,
however, was principally one of identification and the accuracy attained
was sufficient for that."

They discarded a lot of spectra data from "impurities", for instance,
from air and from brass clamps: Al,Pb,C,N,Cu,Zn:

"A striking fact is that in the spectrum obtained from a salt of any one
of the four metals used there always appear many of the strong lines of
the other three and of cadmium which is also a member of this group of
metals.  Although no great effort was made to secure purity of the salts
used, the other metals of the group could have been present in the
solutions only in very minute quantities.  This source seems to be
effective in producing spectra of substances which are present in the
solution only in extremely low concentrations.  It is of interest to
note that no lines of the acid radical employed, chlorine, not any lines
of hydrogen or oxygen have been identified.  If any radiations of these
elements were produced, their intensities were too low to register with
the exposures used."

Here are plenty of hints of copious nuclear transmutations, of Al, Pb,
C,
N, Cd, Mg, Ca, Sr, Ba, Cd, Cl, H, and O.  They just totally didn't see
this interpretation.

Apparently, most of each 1-2 mg sample was transmutted with each spark,
since the Cl, H, and O barely registered.  They made no mentions of any
products from these open air sparks.  Their report seems to me rather
confused, which makes me suspicious of low level radiation sickness.

They listed about 36 lines, including 10 frank unidentifieds, and at
least two of their identifications are false, according to Chemical
Rubber Company Handbook data.  I found, besides the expected Mg, Ca, Ba,
and and Sr lines, one possible Cl line, many close matches for Fe, Cr,
V, Ti, Ar, Be, Co, Ge, Cu, Ni, Pb, Al, and K, plus about the same number
of possible matches for other elements.  Their data was usually accurate
+- 0.1 A, with a range from -0.2 to +0.3 A.

12Mg-24   +   2 17Cl-35   ->   26 Fe54   +   20 Ca-40

12Mg-24   +     17Cl-35  +   2 e-   ->   27 Co-59

17Cl-35   +     17Cl-37   ->   2 18Ar-36   +   2 e-

20Ca-40    +   2 17Cl-35  +  2 e-   ->   26Fe-54   +   26Fe-56

20Ca-40    +   2 17Cl-35   + 2 e-   ->   2 12Mg-24   +  28Ni-62

38Sr-88    ->   20Ca-40   +  2 12Mg-24   +   6 e-

56Ba-138   -> 3 20Ca-46   +  4 e-

These are some of the plausible reactions I see so far.  Some take
electrons and some give electrons, and likewise for energy .  There
should be lots of neutrinos. It looks like that at that voltage, a spark
in air will give dozens of transformations with just about anything.

A good experiment should take a spectrum from UV to IR, monitor for
gammas, betas, alphas, and neutrons, monitor mass changes and energy
balance, and collect all the products without loss for mass spectrometry
and SIMS.  If many sparks could be done in the same sealed glass bulb
without breaking it, then that bulb could be sensitively studied for
changes in the spectrum with each spark, and with NMR for element and
isotopic changes.  It should be weighed to better than microgram
accuracy, in case enough mass is lost to neutrino and other radiations
to be measured.  Can the bulb be kept on a microbalance for continuous
weight monitoring?  Then, of course, the bulb can be sent to any
interested, competent lab to be opened up for mass spectrometry and SIMS
on any deposits and gases, at their cost.

Theodore Lyman, "The extension of the spectrum beyond the Shumann
region," Astrophysical Journal, (1916), 89-102, The Jefferson
Laboratory,  Cambridge, Mass.

Robert A. Millikan, "The extension of the ultra-violet spectrum,"
Astrophysical Journal, 52 (1920), 47-64, Ryerson Physical Laboratory,
University of Chicago.

Theodore Lyman, "The spectrum of helium in the extreme ultra-violet,"
Astrophysical Journal, 60 (1924), 1-14, Jefferson Physical Laboratory,
Cambridge, Mass.

Gerald L. Wendt and Clarence E. Irion, "Experimental attempts to
decompose tungsten at high temperatures," American Chemical Society
Journal, 44 (1922),1877-94, Kent Chemical Laboratory, University of
Chigago.

John A. Anderson, "The spectrum of electrically exploded wires,"
Astrophysical Journal, 51 (1920), 37-48, Mount Wilson Observatory.

Sinclair Smith, "Note on electrically exploded wires in high vacuum,"
National Academy of Sciences Proceedings, 10 (1924), 4-5, Mount Wilson
Observatory, Carnegie Institution of Washington.

John A. Anderson, "The vacuum spark spectrum of calcium,"  Astrophysical
Journal, 59 (1924), 76-96, Mount Wilson Observatory.

Sinclair Smith, "A study of electrically exploded wires," Astrophysical
Journal, 61 (1925), 186-203, Mount Wilson Observatory.

John A. Anderson and Sinclair Smith, "General characteristics of
electrically exploded wires," Astrophysical Journal, 64 (1926), 295-314,
Mount Wilson Observatory.

Hope this helps!

Rich Murray
Room For All
1943 Otowi Drive
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505-986-9103
rmforall rt66.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 02:20:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA03685; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 01:57:56 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 01:57:56 -0800
Message-ID: <332BD1EF.7DC0 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:26:47 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
References: <19970316055432.AAA15585 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"QMwFs1.0.Vv.aGyAp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4956
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
> Nice thing about the laws of nature, they are not determined by popular
> vote. <g>

Ditto.
 
> Regards,     Frederick

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 02:46:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA16400; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 02:35:56 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 02:35:56 -0800 (PST)
Date: 16 Mar 97 05:34:43 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Patent
Message-ID: <970316103443_100060.173_JHB62-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"uNwbs3.0.A04.7qyAp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4957
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mr Soule,

>> Moreover, Joseph Newman is doing everything he can to bring his technology
into production. <<

If it works as you say, then it can be demonstrated and checked out by real
experts using full instrumentation.

Any specialist manufacturer would accept such evidence, and if the patent
history is as clear as you say, then Joe Newman has priority, whatever else is
said.

You are running in the same tracks as Stan Meyer with his water fuel cell, and
you are failing for the same reason - the unwillingness to allow acceptable
independent validation.

If you can find the cash to visit London (England) and bring a working motor
capable of mounting on a test dynamometer, then I will undertake to arrange the
testing by a reputable institution.  I can also ensure that you would get full
positive publicity if the results were satisfactory.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 06:49:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA24040; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 06:40:33 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 06:40:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: rmforall rt66.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ditmere "Nature" summary: laser pulses on xenon produce 1
  Mev ions
Cc: vortex-L eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:39:46 +0000
Message-ID: <19970316143944.AAA27879 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"PSah91.0.Xt5.UP0Bp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4958
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:58 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Rich Murray wrote:
>This summary is from Nature.com  :
>
>High-energy ions produced in explosions of superheated atomic
>                                          clusters 
>                                          Efficient conversion of
>electromagnetic energy to particle energy is of
>                                          fundamental importance in many
>areas of physics. A promising avenue for
>                                          producing matter with
>unprecedented energy densities is by heating atomic
>                                          clusters, an intermediate form
>of matter between molecules and solids, with
>                                          high-intensity, ultra-short
>light pulses. Studies of noble- gas clusters heated
>                                          with high-intensity
>(>1016Wcm-2) laser pulses indicate that a highly ionized,
>                                          very high temperature
>micro-plasma is produced.
>
>(End of quote)   This result, similar to old reports of anomalous
>spectra from high voltage electric sparks off various electrodes in
>krypton, air,  and vacuum, as well as anomalous spectra from
>electrically exploded wires, could indicate unexpected nuclear
>reactions.  The resulting ions could be studied via mass spectroscopy,
>optical and ultraviolet spectra taken, and possible radiation and high
>energy particle emission determined.
>
>The following extracts from my post of Oct. 27, 1996, gives a useful
>summary and list of old research:
>
>R.A. Sawyer and A.L.Becker (1923), Astrophysical Journal, 51, p.37-113,
>"The Explosion Spectra of the Alkaline Earth Elements", University of
>Michigan, put a spark from a 40,000 volt, 0.3 MF capacitor on a fine
>asbestos fiber in air: "...50 calories or so,...The temperature of the
>explosion is probably about 15,000 degrees C. and the pressure 10 to 20
>atmospheres."  The fiber had been dipped in water solutions of MgCl2,
>CaCl2, SrCl2, or BaCl2, giving about 1-2 mg sample of solids per spark. 
>The fiber was reused dozens of times.  From six to twenty sparks were
>needed for each spectrum:  "...because of the high pressure and gaseous
>velocities in the explosion, the lines were rather broad.  The problem,
>however, was principally one of identification and the accuracy attained
>was sufficient for that."

This smacks of the early Columbus II pinch experiments where " copius
quantitities of neutrons were observed traveling in the direction that a
deuteron would be accelerated by the electric field".

This is a heck of an accelerator with the electric field, E = - d(phi)/dt or
a force on an ion of charge q, F = q* - d(phi)/dt.

What I would speculate from this is that there are light electrons gotten
from the "salt water" accelerating in the direction opposite of the hydrogen and
deuterium ions and combining with them to make small hydrogen , ie., (1H1*) 
and (1H2*) that are mistaken for neutrons.

These could effect the transmutations observed.

Most likely the high energy femtosecond laser bursts on gas clusters are
setting up similar "self inductive" fields, E = - L*d(phi)/dt which accounts
for the high energy ions. (1 Mev or so)
>
>"A striking fact is that in the spectrum obtained from a salt of any one
>of the four metals used there always appear many of the strong lines of
>the other three and of cadmium which is also a member of this group of
>metals.  Although no great effort was made to secure purity of the salts
>used, the other metals of the group could have been present in the
>solutions only in very minute quantities.  This source seems to be
>effective in producing spectra of substances which are present in the
>solution only in extremely low concentrations.  It is of interest to
>note that no lines of the acid radical employed, chlorine, not any lines
>of hydrogen or oxygen have been identified.  If any radiations of these
>elements were produced, their intensities were too low to register with
>the exposures used."
>
>Apparently, most of each 1-2 mg sample was transmutted with each spark,
>since the Cl, H, and O barely registered.  They made no mentions of any
>products from these open air sparks.
>
>They listed about 36 lines, including 10 frank unidentifieds, and at
>least two of their identifications are false, according to Chemical
>Rubber Company Handbook data.  I found, besides the expected Mg, Ca, Ba,
>and and Sr lines, one possible Cl line, many close matches for Fe, Cr,
>V, Ti, Ar, Be, Co, Ge, Cu, Ni, Pb, Al, and K, plus about the same number
>of possible matches for other elements.  Their data was usually accurate
>+- 0.1 A, with a range from -0.2 to +0.3 A.
>

>
>Rich Murray
>Room For All
>1943 Otowi Drive
>Santa Fe, NM 87505
>505-986-9103
>rmforall rt66.com
>
Regards,        Frederick J. Sparber
                12 Gregory Eiler Drive
                Belen, New Mexico 87002
                505-864-7095   
 Save us some water.  <G>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 09:44:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA00136; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 09:21:19 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 09:21:19 -0800
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:16:36 +0100
Message-Id: <v01510100af51ec1c2647 [194.206.201.195]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: Eudora F1.5.1
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: jlagarde cyberaccess.fr (Jean_de_Lagarde)
Subject: Aspden-Adams Motor
Resent-Message-ID: <"Phskl2.0._1.Em2Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4959
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In IE #11 page 73 bottom of second column the paragraph before last reads :

" One of the applicants has built an operative test machine which is
configured as depicted schematically in Fig 4. The machine has been proved
to deliver substantially more mechanical power output than is supplied as
electrical input, as much as a ratio of 7:1 in one version, and it can act
regeneratively to produce electrical power"

If such a machine does exist (at least since sept 1993, date of filing), it
should be very easy  to test it in Gene Mallove's test facility or at
EarthTech International. Why could not that be done immediately ?

                Jean DeLagarde


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 10:07:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA02364; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 09:44:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 09:44:55 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen.
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:44:13 +0000
Message-ID: <19970316174411.AAA8731 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"bXjyv1.0.ra.M63Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4960
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Here's one for you Horace.

C.G. (Guy) Suits "noted that a 10 ampere arc which had a diameter of 
about one-half inch in air contracted to a tiny thread at pressures of
several tons per square inch."

"One particularly interesting experiment involved the behavior of an
electric arc in an atmosphere of hydrogen gas. Even at atmospheric 
pressure, Suits found, this arc had an extremely small cross section.
It was, in fact, no larger than an arc in a nitrogen atmosphere subjected
to pressure greater than 1500 pounds per square inch. When the pressure
of the hydrogen atmosphere was increased above 300 pounds per square
inch the arc could not be operated at all. Suits found the temperature
to be about 12,500 deg F."

Earlier, similar anomalies were seen in steam at high pressure by 
investigators in Europe. Lotz?

I had a few conversations with Guy Suits after he had retired as
director of General Electric's Research Labs in the early 70's.

The interesting thing about this is the possibility of getting 
high velocity hydrogen ions and electrons from the sparking 
"instabilities" that occurred with the steam arc-sparks between
an electrode and a conductive pool of water in a pressure vessel.

The note to Rich Murray regarding the F = q * - d(phi)/dt or, the self 
inductance due to an instability F = q * - L * di/dt on an ion or 
an electron could give it a very high velocity. Thus a spark could
set up a fast changing B field around itself that would act as a
linear accelerator next to the spark channel.

This seems to be borne out in the information on exploding wires 
and pinch experiments.

Now if we can just come up with a clever way to generate
"light electron-positron" pairs between sparks to turn those 
protons and deuterons into neutral (1H1* and 1H2*) entities....

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 11:08:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA09407; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:58:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 10:58:03 -0800
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130500af51f856764d [153.34.203.160]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 13:59:59 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"WDqjc3.0.vI2.uA4Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4961
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Mr Soule',
>
>>> Moreover, Joseph Newman is doing everything he can to bring his technology
>into production. <<
>
>If it works as you say, then it can be demonstrated and checked out by real
>experts using full instrumentation.
>
>Any specialist manufacturer would accept such evidence, and if the patent
>history is as clear as you say, then Joe Newman has priority, whatever else is
>said.
>
>You are running in the same tracks as Stan Meyer with his water fuel cell, and
>you are failing for the same reason - the unwillingness to allow acceptable
>independent validation.
>
>If you can find the cash to visit London (England) and bring a working motor
>capable of mounting on a test dynamometer, then I will undertake to arrange the
>testing by a reputable institution.  I can also ensure that you would get full
>positive publicity if the results were satisfactory.
>
>Norman

Dear Norman,

Are you aware of the full history of this technology?

I can only presume from your comments above that you are not aware of the
history of this technology.

Thirty scientist have tested various Newman Motor/Generator prototypes and
have signed legal Affidavits attesting to the operability of the
technology. A former U.S. Commissioner of the Patent Office (and Technical
Expert in the field of Electrical Engineer with superb credentials
according to both the U.S. Patent Office and a Federal Judge selecting this
Technical Expert to render a formal Report on the Technology) explicitly
stated:

1) "Evidence before the Patent and Trademark Office and this Court IS
OVERWHELMING that Newman has built and tested a prototype of his invention
in which the output energy exceeds the external input energy: there is NO
contradictory factual evidence."

2) The Patent Office has presented 'no contradictory factual evidence.'

3) There was ample evidence that one skilled in the art could construct or
utilize the energy machine.

4) The Patent Office did not examine the petitioner's (Joseph Newman's)
application 'on its merits in accordance with usual practices.'

5) The Patent Office Board of Appeals' finding rejecting such a machine as
'impossible' was 'clearly erroneous.'

6) Petitioner Newman 'is entitled to a patent.'

Norman, Joseph Newman has repeatedly proven the operability of his
technology.  Patent office bureaucrats have only proven both their own
stupidity and total incompetence (or worse).  Or, another way of phrasing
it: the patent office bureaucrats _have_ proven themselves competent to
select proven technical incompetents such as Donovan F. Duggan as patent
examiners.

We are not "running in the same tracks as Stan Meyer with his water fuel
cell."  This is simply not the case.  Anyone who claims this is "running in
the same tracks as the bureaucrats at the Patent Office" and is refusing to
examine the history of this technology.

Moreover, Joseph Newman has published a book which features the technology
in detail.  In addition, he has published a Wiring & Construction Diagram
which further assists others in building one of the most recent versions of
the technology for themselves for their own use and experimentation.

Joseph Newman has met and exceeded all statutory requirements of Patent Law
and asks only for the equal opportunity to present his invention in the
marketplace with patent protection.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 12:20:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA16203; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 12:05:05 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 12:05:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: hheffner corecom.net
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen.
Cc: vortex-L eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:04:14 +0000
Message-ID: <19970316200412.AAA12843 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"XMeUf2.0.4z3.l95Bp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4963
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace:

The spark spectroscopy set-up uses a transformer to step up from
the 120-240 60 Hz input to 11,000 Volts or more on the secondary.

A capacitor is connected across the secondary and a spark gap is
connected across this. The inductance in series with the spark gap
is the inductance of the circuitry.

They figure the current I = V * (C/L)^1/2  which can get the current 
up to several hundred amperes on each half cycle of the A.C. and 
temperatures up to "several million degrees" which can strip many 
of the atoms of all of their electrons.

I like this for a source of energy to spark to the water-lithium borate
pool with, and in steam or hydrogen. Might be the right photons created
here to produce the Light Electron-Positron Pairs (LEPPs).<g>

Rgeards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 13:01:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA16377; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:55:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:55:40 -0800
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 13:55:29 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703161955.NAA23140 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Aspden-Adams Motor
Resent-Message-ID: <"bKvyu.0.l_3.x05Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4962
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 06:16 PM 3/16/97 +0100, Jean_de_Lagarde wrote:

>If such a machine does exist (at least since sept 1993, date of filing), it
>should be very easy  to test it in Gene Mallove's test facility or at
>EarthTech International. Why could not that be done immediately ?

Good question.  Our door is open for such testing. We will perform the tests
free of charge.  No strings attached.  In fact, if the tests are successful
we will connect the inventor to an investor who is uniquely qualified to
handle a world-wide introduction of such technology.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 15:02:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA00553; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:24:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:24:40 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen.
Cc: hheffner corecom.net
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:23:45 +0000
Message-ID: <19970316222343.AAA16141 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"P4CZF3.0.U8.dC7Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4964
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

All:

Figuring that one can make a capacitor by going to the lumber yard
and getting some thin gauge sheet metal cut to 0.5 by 0.6 meters and
stacking 25 to 50 of the rectangular sheets crosswise separated by 
some plastic film about 0.002 meters thick (dielectric constant of 2)
a capacitor rated at about 10 kv plus, at 0.1 microfarads would store
5 joules.

Now you go to a sign store and dicker for a used neon sign transformer
rated at 15 kilovolts RMS at 30 to 60 milliamps and use this to
charge the capacitor which will dump into a spark between an electrode
and a pool of water (in a pressure vessel)filled to saturation with 
Boric Acid and maybe neutralized with some lithium hydroxide thus making
a lithium borate solution.

The current, I = V * (C/L)^1/2 should come out around 2,800 amperes
when the capacitor dumps through the spark.

The axial field set up around the spark channel, E = - d(phi)/dt 
or the self inductance field, E = - L * dI/dt along with many of 
the atoms around being stripped of all their electrons should make 
for an interesting experiment and/or a great water heater that can
be used as a foot warmer. :-)

Regards,       Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 15:22:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA04299; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:57:43 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:57:43 -0800
Date: 16 Mar 97 17:55:34 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: French AEC, SRI, Los Alamos, China Lake 
Message-ID: <970316225534_72240.1256_EHB104-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"LwMRc1.0.431.bh7Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4965
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Barry Merriman wrote:

     Personally, I wouldn't find any of F's comments "credible" until they
     open up their research effort to the extent where some demonstration
     experiments can be observed and independently replicated.

And Russ George responded:

     Hey Barry your last comment about replication of P&F's is right on
     target. Since that replication is now complete in spades by Lonchampt
     and the French ACE I suppose you are fully behind that pioneering work.

That should be AEC (Atomic Energy Commission); ACE is the hardware store ("ACE
is the Place!") which does not carry CF heaters yet. But Russ's point is
exactly on the mark and it would be very gratifying if Barry would respond,
for once. Pons and Fleischmann have been fully replicated by the AEC, and
their earlier, low level excess heat has been replicated in the peer-reviewed
literature by Storms, McKubre, Kunimatsu, Miles, Bockris and countless others.
The experiments and the protocols have been described in enormous detail,
particularly by Storms and Cravens. So it is unfair, irrational, and downright
infuriating when someone like Barry goes on year after year denying all this.
You can say "I don't believe it" or "I don't like it" but PLEASE do not say
"it does not exist." Starting seven years ago many scientists have published
papers claiming that they have independently replicated the excess heat effect
with palladium. Okay, maybe Barry has read all of these papers and he has a
good reason to dismiss every one of them. Maybe he knows more about
calorimetry that Bockris, Kunimatsu and Miles, and he has spotted their
mistakes. I wouldn't bet on that, but maybe! If that is what he means, fine,
but in that case he should say:

. . . some demonstration experiments can be observed and independently
replicated *by someone I believe, because I dismiss the last 500 people who
replicated, because I know better than they do*.

That would put things in perspective.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 16:11:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA04126; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 15:55:15 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 15:55:15 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703162354.PAA15028 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 15:57:41 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: The Patent
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <v02130500af51f856764d [153.34.203.160]>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"-lnY6.0.N01.XX8Bp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4966
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

All this discussion about patents is patently absurd. A patent isn't required 
to go into production on some new technology it just adds a few percent to the 
eventual profit line. It's only a small part of the total profit made on a 
product. Useful but small. Scads of products are on the shelves without patents 
and do very well. 

If someone has an invention that they believe has utility then the true test is 
the marketplace. If something isn't able to get into or survive in the 
marketplace then obviously it has limited or no utility.

So as the cowboys of old used to say, put up or shut up.

On the other hand patents are sometimes useful to unsophisticated investors who 
cannot determine for themselves whether an idea has any merit. The danger there 
is that the patent office makes constant and enormous errors in judgement so 
anyone believing that a patent is a testimonial that something works is likely 
in for a big surprise or in the market for a nice used bridge.




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 17:14:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA10090; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:59:12 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:59:12 -0800 (PST)
Date: 16 Mar 97 19:56:37 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: IE#11 Fleischman Interview
Message-ID: <970317005637_100433.1541_BHG50-3 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"-kwUF3.0.aT2.ST9Bp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4969
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Barry,

 > Personally, I wouldn't find any of F's comments "credible" until
 > they open up their research effort to the extent where some
 > demonstration experiments can be observed and independently
 > replicated.

A slur, I suggest.  First, as Russ points out, you already have what
you say you want - from Longchampt & Co at CEREM.  Second, a scientist
of Fleischmann's high stature should be treated as credible until proven
otherwise.  In that context, I refer you to the Close (Clouseau?)
irrational textual rant, wherein even HE comments that some earlier
'conventional' work from Dr Fleischmann required five years effort *by his
fellow electrochemists* before they were competent to replicate.  If
Martin has a problem, it is that he simply does not realise how much
better he is at his job than are his fellows.  Third, his work over a
long period was the property of the Toyota Corporation, whose views may
not necessarily always have coincided with his own.

I am driven to conclude that behind the bland facade of science there
must be a great deal of jealousy and even downright hatred of the best
scientists.  How else could it be that so many were and are so quick to cry
fraud and to try to pull such men down - or to deny them
credibility?

On the other hand, Dr Fleischmann made it abundantly clear to me that
he is and has always been most strongly in favour of demonstration kits
and full access to the requisite protocols.  Had you read the
interviews, these matters would have been clear to you.  And, as you may
have gathered, great efforts are underway to provide - without strings
or non-disclosure agreements - such demonstration devices.  However,
further information on that matter can't be made available until we are
satisfied with the product.

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 17:15:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA09800; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Date: 16 Mar 97 19:56:33 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: gee thanks, Chris
Message-ID: <970317005632_100433.1541_BHG50-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"MagtV2.0.1P2.DS9Bp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4968
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scott,

 > >> Could you give us some more info on this cell, Chris?
 > 
 > >Not yet!  Keep buying the rag and all will be revealed.
 > 
 > Ah, you mean it doesn't work, yet?

Did I say that?

 > >> Tell us about Ragland.
 > 
 > >Charming fellow.  He invented the daisy-wheel printer.
 > 
 > great, but what has he done in CF?

There's this magazine called "Infinite Energy."  In a recent issue there
is a full description of his triode Pd/D2O cell ... isn't there?

 > >> On page 18, he suggests that the escape of energy in >> the
 > form of hard x-rays from CF cells could explain why a lot of >>
 > people don't see the excess heat effect.
 > 
 > >Gotta remember that Martin is an FRS, and his comments may be a
 > trifle more >substantial, albeit elliptical, than at first sight
 > appears.
 > 
 > Are you trying to sidestep this with an elliptical reponse of your
 > own?
 
Would I do such a thing?  Straightforward chap, me.  No trace of
pretension in moi!

 > Your response implies that you feel that F is correct about
 > this...right?

I'm just a humble hack reporter.  What would I know of all this techy
stuff?

 > Persistently,

Persist away, old chap.

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 17:44:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA12244; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:29:04 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:29:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130500af5255405671 [153.34.200.43]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 20:30:52 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"tq-Jk.0.E_2.Tv9Bp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4970
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>All this discussion about patents is patently absurd. A patent isn't required
>to go into production on some new technology it just adds a few percent to the
>eventual profit line. It's only a small part of the total profit made on a
>product. Useful but small. Scads of products are on the shelves without
>patents
>and do very well.

Dear Russ,

The essence of the above statement is indeed "patently" absurd.
Fortunately the Founding Fathers of our country would disagree with the
essence of your statements.  And because they understood the nature and
importance of fostering and protecting our innovators --- especially
_MAJOR_ innovators (not just someone who has an "improved tinker toy") ---
they originally entrusted this important task to our patent office via
Congress.

>
>If someone has an invention that they believe has utility then the true
>test is
>the marketplace. If something isn't able to get into or survive in the
>marketplace then obviously it has limited or no utility.
>
>So as the cowboys of old used to say, put up or shut up.
>
>On the other hand patents are sometimes useful to unsophisticated
>investors who
>cannot determine for themselves whether an idea has any merit. The danger
>there
>is that the patent office makes constant and enormous errors in judgement so
>anyone believing that a patent is a testimonial that something works is likely
>in for a big surprise or in the market for a nice used bridge.

Russ,

I hate the be the one to break the news to you, but "Welcome to the real world."

And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
Newman, "Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
contact us as soon as you receive your patent."  I was a witness to several
of these 'real world' incidents.  And one of the most recent of such
incidents was a top research scientist for a major Fortune 500 company ---
a scientist, BTW, who is totally convinced (along with his colleagues at
the company in question) in the operability of Joseph Newman's technology.
This individual put it very simply: "The top executives at the company I
work for are ready to sign a production agreement with you once you obtain
your patent."

Tell you what, Russ:  if you know of a company that would like to invest in
the commercialization of this technology (without full patent protection)
-- I would love for you to prove me wrong.  Please feel free to pass along
to them my email address/telephone number/address.  Since you directed this
to me --- "Put up or shut up" --- I will direct it right back to you.

And speaking of the quaint quote, "put up or shut up":  Russ, this quote
should really be directed to the bureaucrats at the Patent Office.  If the
patent office is incapable of "putting up" competent patent examiners to
process Patent Applications, then the patent office should "shut up" and
issue Patents in lawful accordance with their _own_ Rules and Regulations
-- or shut down.

And Russ, I could not agree more with your comment about the "true test is
the marketplace."  HOWEVER -- all Joseph Newman has asked for, from the
beginning, is the equal opportunity to present his invention in the
marketplace with patent protection.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 17:55:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA18999; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:57:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:57:49 -0800
Date: 16 Mar 97 19:56:34 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: gee thanks, Chris
Message-ID: <970317005634_100433.1541_BHG50-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"2FgNp1.0.ne4.AS9Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4967
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scotty,

< He invented the daisy-wheel printer.
great, but what has he done in CF?>

I hadn't heard of a CF-powered daisy-wheel printer?  Enlighten moi?

<Are you trying to sidestep this with an elliptical reponse of your own?>

You jest !!!  "an elliptical sidestep?" - I only just taught him to Tango.

[Miss Piggy mode on] All this is just fine and dandy, sunshine.  But
what did you think of my "Hello" magazine interview with Mrs F?  Or do
you regard us femmes as a lower form of life?

[Ms. Piggy mode off]

Well ??????????????????????

Susie

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 18:25:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA14576; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:05:12 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:05:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970317020502.00664ff0 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:05:02 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Cryogenic beta detector
Resent-Message-ID: <"lGq_G1.0.dZ3.LRABp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4971
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

        Can anyone put me in touch with a reliable source for low-level beta
spectral measurements?  I'm hoping to find someone with an Ortec cryogenic
silicon detector (or equivalent) able to obtain measurements in the range of
~40 keV.  Our own charged particle detectors are not cryogenically cooled
and are not able to make measurments in this energy range.
        
Thanks in advance,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 19:25:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA29283; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:38:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:38:17 -0800
Date: 16 Mar 97 21:31:47 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: The Patent
Message-ID: <970317023146_72240.1256_EHB112-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"KWnkF2.0.P97.NwABp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4972
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Evan Soule writes:

    And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
    Newman, "Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
    contact us as soon as you receive your patent."  I was a witness to
    several of these 'real world' incidents.

This is nonsense. If a large corporation saw a promising technology with no
patent coverage, they would steal it faster than you can say knife. They
do that ALL THE TIME. Hundreds of companies took the original IBM PC design!


    Tell you what, Russ:  if you know of a company that would like to invest
    in the commercialization of this technology (without full patent
    protection) -- I would love for you to prove me wrong.

ME! ME! <Waving arms vigorously> I am right here, Evan! I don't have a large
company. Just a couple of small ones, but I can get a few million immediately
if you can demonstrate your product to me. Not only that, but I promise I
will not steal it. I'll put that in writing: patent or no patent, I'll pay you
royalties.

I am 100% serious about this, just as I was serious when I offered to verify
Joe Champion's claims, but having his samples checked for isotopic anomalies.
I am also sure that you will not follow up, for the same reason Joe never did:
your claims are nonsense. Both of you could become billionaires in a few
months if any of your claims were true. Both of you could convince me in a
week at no expense and with no effort on your parts. Neither of you will ever
do it, because you cannot. I wish that you would both pipe down and stop
posting messages here. I do not think anyone here believes you. You are
wasting your time, you might as well stop.

Let me add that Russ and the others who have commented on patents here are
completely correct. I and several people I know have become wealthy selling
machines without patents. And if Newman's machines are ever demonstrated and
sold, a patent will surely follow, along with an apology from the Federal
government, a Nobel prize, a Niagara of wealth, and every other reward an
inventor could ask for.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 19:38:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA20886; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:22:44 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:22:44 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970317032253.00663ea0 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:22:53 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"mFoN13.0.G65.2aBBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4973
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott's question concerning Fleischmann's non-sequitur on x-rays has some
parallels from other sectors in the CF community .  Several groups have
reported the exposure of x-ray film from various cold fusion experiments,
and I think that may have provided the source for the apparent garbled
information from Dr Fleischmann.  (One good reference:  Fusion Technology
1996, 30, 2 Reproducible, Anomalous emissions from PdD-H, from the
Srinivasan group in India).
        First, a  cautionary note:  many persons have attempted to use
inductive reasoning to identify the source of the exposure.  That is, they
identify explanations a, b, and c.  Then they cite negative evidence for a
and b, and conclude the source must be c (i.e., their favorite explanation).
However, this is a very bad way to arrive at an explanation for a complex
anomaly.
        The Srinivasan group has done a good job of showing that this is
really, really an anomaly:  it can not be due to ANY explanation that they
have identified so far.  It can not be x-rays because very sensitive
detectors fail to observe x-rays, plus the film is exposed when shields are
placed between the film and palladium.  But other explanations, such as
charged particles, neutron, gammas, exotic chemistry or unintentional
exposure to heat, pressure, light, acoustic emissions, electromagnetic
effects, etc. have all been considered experimentally and rejected.  BTW,
another bizarre feature of the effect is that it is increased under an
electrostatic field, but eliminated in the presence of a transverse magnetic
field. Very weird.  
        So thus far, the effect has resisted all attempts to identify it.  
        Yet other groups have used film, found that it is exposed and jumped
to the conclusion that it is due to x-rays, and generated the hypothesis
that these x-rays may carry large amounts of energy away.  Some groups
(whose names I will not identify to protect the guilty, but you can find
them by carefully perusing the ICCF-6 proceedings) have gone to significant
lengths to add radiation shielding to their CF experiments, fearing that the
excess heat will leak out in the form of x-rays.  Although, as Scott and
others have correctly pointed out, if the radiation WERE x-rays, the total
amount of energy which might be lost is on the order of microjoules, NOT
anything significant from a thermal point of view.  Perhaps Dr. Fleischmann
is aware of the claims made by these groups, but he may not have gone
through the numbers to see the non-sequitur in their reasoning.
        So in summary, I think there IS a real effect;  some groups have
observed it and jumped to the conclusion that there is a massive energy loss
due to x-ray production.  Other groups are studying the effect more
systematically, but have yet to pin down the nature of the effect.

Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 19:55:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA22330; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:41:17 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:41:17 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:40:59 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703170340.VAA00655 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Chris & Susie
Resent-Message-ID: <"YUzd1.0.pS5.QrBBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4974
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 19:56 3/16/97 EST, Susie Seddon wrote:

>You jest !!!  "an elliptical sidestep?" - I only just taught him to Tango.

Chris Tinsley doing the Tango!...Whoa!...just what is your relationship with
Mr. Tinsley, Susie?....I mean besides "Assistant to UK editor"....:-)

>[Miss Piggy mode on] All this is just fine and dandy, sunshine.  But
>what did you think of my "Hello" magazine interview with Mrs F?  Or do
>you regard us femmes as a lower form of life?

Hardly lower! I enjoyed your interview with Mrs F.  She sounds like a
delightful person.  The wilds of Wiltshire, eh?...isn't that where most of
the British crop circles show up?  Did you see the one that appeared just
across the highway from Stonhenge last summer!?

Chris:  OK, I'll go back through the IE issues and read about Ragland's
cell...thanks.




Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:29:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA12431; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:16:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:16:58 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: IE#11 Fleischman Interview
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:16:51 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3332d673.43350845 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970315223932_100433.1541_BHG42-1 CompuServe.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970315223932_100433.1541_BHG42-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.387
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"mmfz92.0.623.8FDBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4976
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 15 Mar 97 17:39:32 EST, Chris Tinsley wrote:
[snip]
>Gotta remember that Martin is an FRS, and his comments may be a trifle more
>substantial, albeit elliptical, than at first sight appears.
>
>Chris
>
>
Chris, are you hinting that he has retired from the scene due to a personal
over-exposure to hard x-rays?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:30:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA12456; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:17:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:17:03 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:16:49 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3331cfae.41617066 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970315161512.AAA11087 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970315161512.AAA11087 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.387
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"LcQq11.0.Y23.CFDBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4977
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:15:14 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:

>At 03:04 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Horace Hefner wrote:
>>
>>If light electrons existed, light pairs should be manufactured in lead
>>atoms spontaneously from the vacuum.
>
>Vacuum smacuum,<g>  dE = hbar/dt, if you put enough energy into getting
>something between 0.4, 54.4, and 7520 ev to get the light pairs from the
>collision so that this equation is satisfied, you are not getting anything
>for nothing.
[snip]
I hadn't noticed the "0.4" eV particle before. If you are seriously
suggesting that this might exist, then surely chemistry wouldn't be the
same. This is right in the range of normal chemical potentials, and one
would expect to have seen many "unexplained" phenomena had this existed.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:37:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA11316; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:04:57 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:04:57 -0800
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130500af527f80f32e [153.34.203.194]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:06:52 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"iK6OM1.0.km2.t3DBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4975
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>To: Vortex
>
>Evan Soule' writes:
>
>    And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
>    Newman, "Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
>    contact us as soon as you receive your patent."  I was a witness to
>    several of these 'real world' incidents.
>
>This is nonsense. If a large corporation saw a promising technology with no
>patent coverage, they would steal it faster than you can say knife. They
>do that ALL THE TIME. Hundreds of companies took the original IBM PC design!

Dear Jed,

I really, personally, resent your statement: "This is nonsense."
If you calling me a liar --- just have the courage to say so directly.

I was a witness to the above.  What I said above is _not_ nonsense.  I have
very little respect for comments such as yours above.  Such a comment is
typical of one who "spews forth" a generalized statement which is
operationally meaningless.  No doubt, Jed, you have conducted an 'explicit
survey of ALL major corporations throughout the world,' asking them if they
would steal a promising technology with 'no patent coverage.'  After
completing your extensive survey and compiling the results, you therefore
believe yourself qualified to issue the above statement.  Yes, Jed, in your
case I am not calling you a "liar" -- just one who __truly__ engages in
nonsensical statements.

BTW, in this case, the patent is still pending.  And, as one attorney puts
is, Joseph Newman has --- in one sense (in the sense of an explicit claim
to the technology) --- a 'de facto patent' by virtue of the extensive
publicity surrounding his technology and his quest for a patent over the
past 15 years.

>
>    Tell you what, Russ:  if you know of a company that would like to invest
>    in the commercialization of this technology (without full patent
>    protection) -- I would love for you to prove me wrong.
>
>ME! ME! <Waving arms vigorously> I am right here, Evan! I don't have a large
>company. Just a couple of small ones, but I can get a few million immediately
>if you can demonstrate your product to me. Not only that, but I promise I
>will not steal it. I'll put that in writing: patent or no patent, I'll pay you
>royalties.

O.K. Jed.  Let's keep it real simple.  You don't even need to test one of
Joseph Newman's prototypes (you probably would not believe the results
anyway).  Since you can "get a few million immediately," you are obviously
someone of financial means and/or know those who have some means.  So, yes,
let's keep it real simple:
          _______BUILD YOUR *OWN* PROTOTYPE!!!!!________
          ______________________________________________
          **********************************************

For the sake of explicitness let me repeat these words:  "Build Your Own
Prototype."

Yes, Jed, Build Your Own Prototype:
Then you can independently test it to your heart's content, experiment with
it "before the cows are even aware that they want to come home."  :-)

Joseph Newman has published a Wiring & Construction Diagram featuring one
of the most recent applications of his technology.  HAVE AT IT!!!!!

>
>I am 100% serious about this, just as I was serious when I offered to verify
>Joe Champion's claims, but having his samples checked for isotopic anomalies.
>I am also sure that you will not follow up, for the same reason Joe never did:
>your claims are nonsense. Both of you could become billionaires in a few
>months if any of your claims were true. Both of you could convince me in a
>week at no expense and with no effort on your parts. Neither of you will ever
>do it, because you cannot. I wish that you would both pipe down and stop
>posting messages here. I do not think anyone here believes you. You are
>wasting your time, you might as well stop.

I am also 100% serious about this, Jed.
[Or, for those who believe in "over-unity" -- over 100% serious!  :-)]

I hate to disabuse you of your nonsensical notions, Jed, but this
technology is here to stay.  You want to know what I find really
remarkable, Jed?  This is what I find really remarkable:  the fact that a
number of presumably intelligent individuals claim an interest in searching
and searching and searching and searching and searching for "an over-unity
device" --- and when a technology DOES come along which DOES produce
"Greater External Energy Output Than External Energy Input" you can find
the time to attack it and/or ridicule it and/or claim it's "nonsense" ---
but you haven't the initiative to BUILD IT FOR YOURSELF.

You know Jed, come to consider it, I have even more respect for that
_PROVEN_ technically-incompetent, former patent examiner Donovan F. Duggan
than you.  His excuse was blind prejudice and simple stupidity.  Judging
from what I presume is your interest in "over-unity"-type-technology, YOU
_should_ know better.  I also am sure that you, Jed Rothwell, will not
follow up --- that you are more interested in "attacking" and "ridiculing"
than in building and creating.  And guess what, Jed, this technology is
here to stay.  Personally speaking, I will "stop" when I draw my last
breath.  And even then, what has and is being set in motion will have a
'life' of its own.

>
>Let me add that Russ and the others who have commented on patents here are
>completely correct. I and several people I know have become wealthy selling
>machines without patents. And if Newman's machines are ever demonstrated and
>sold, a patent will surely follow, along with an apology from the Federal
>government, a Nobel prize, a Niagara of wealth, and every other reward an
>inventor could ask for.
>
>- Jed

As far as commercializing the technology -- we're working on it.  If you
can't help, then at least attend to your own business.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html

P.S. To other list members (with a few exceptions) for whom I have respect:

I am sorry if my forceful tone with Mr. Rothwell disturbs you.  It is
unfortunate that individuals such as Jed Rothwell _initiate_ an indulgence
in personal and "ridiculing" attacks upon other members of this List.

I will say that having seen what I have seen over the past 14 years, I am
more than ever dedicated to the commerical development of this technology.
One of my purposes is to never _initiate_ any personal or ridiculing attack
upon anyone, nor have I _ever_ initiated ridicule of the life work and
technological endeavors of another.  If 'attacked' by statements of
ridicule, insults, etc. from another, I will defend this technology.
Personally, I will always try to encourage new paradigms, new research and
new ways of considering innovative technology --- which I have believed is
one of the purposes of this list.


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 21:57:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA16508; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:46:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:46:44 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Fleischmann, x-rays
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 04:25:51 +0000
Message-ID: <19970317042548.AAA3945 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"3ddMl2.0.p14.2hDBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4978
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Elliot Kennel wrote:
>
>Another bizarre feature of the effect is that it is increased
>under an electrostatic field, but eliminated in the presence
>of a transverse magnetic field. Very weird.

Imagine for a moment that you are dealing with a set of particles
with +/- unit charge and hundreds or thousands of times lighter than 
an electron.

In an electrostatic field they are very mobile, possibly even able 
to diffuse through a metal plate, but in a transverse magnetic field 
they become trapped......? Light Electron-Positron Pairs, perhaps?

Regards,       Frederick




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 22:24:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA04822; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:13:31 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:13:31 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970317061751.00b85480 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:17:51 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"M2ZJ31.0.GB1.94EBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4979
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 12:06 AM 3/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>To: Vortex
>>
>>Evan Soule' writes:
>>
>>    And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
>>    Newman, "Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
>>    contact us as soon as you receive your patent."  I was a witness to
>>    several of these 'real world' incidents.
>>
>>This is nonsense. If a large corporation saw a promising technology with no
>>patent coverage, they would steal it faster than you can say knife. They
>>do that ALL THE TIME. Hundreds of companies took the original IBM PC design!
>
>Dear Jed,
>
>I really, personally, resent your statement: "This is nonsense."
>If you calling me a liar --- just have the courage to say so directly.

I agree with Jed.  It is nonsense.  I don't think you or Newman are liars, 
just sadly mistaken, blinded by a strong desire for glory.

The floatation device of Newman IS nonsense.  I submit that it is no 
more elaborate than this:

http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/images/newman.jpg

That air balloon heats in the sun, and then rises.  Newman runs enough 
current through wire to heat the balloon, and is mystified when it 
rises.  "It's gyroscopic!"  ...to the myopic.

That balloon is available from Edmund Scientific.

Please quit making me turn skeptical.  I don't like it very much.

Gary Hawkins

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:14:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA07473; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:04:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:04:26 -0800 (PST)
Date: 17 Mar 97 02:00:16 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Patent
Message-ID: <970317070015_100060.173_JHB51-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"b0Tqw1.0.hq1.upEBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4980
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Mr Soule,

>> Joseph Newman has met and exceeded all statutory requirements of Patent Law
and asks only for the equal opportunity to present his invention in the
marketplace with patent protection. <<

So what's stopping the commercial implementation - he's covered?  A few models
for public demonstration wouldn't cost the earth.  If all the design details are
in the public domain where are all the working copies and the news media.  Send
me a working ou self-sustaining  motor-generator and I will have it tested by
the Royal Institution in Faraday's original labs.  The RI are set up to educate
the non-scientific public in scientific matters, and they would appreciate a
small royalty from the commercialisation of such a device - say 1% of sales in
return for their promotion of your motor to the British industrial scene.  If
the RI say the thing is genuine then there would be no obstacle to it being
accepted by any manufacturer - the inventive priority has been established.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:27:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA24091; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:17:52 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:17:52 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:01:18 +0000
Message-ID: <19970317060116.AAA21065 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"N_v663.0.Lu5.U0FBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4981
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 06:16 AM 3/17/97 +0000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:15:14 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>
>>At 03:04 PM 3/15/97 +0000, Horace Hefner wrote:
>>>
>>>If light electrons existed, light pairs should be manufactured in lead
>>>atoms spontaneously from the vacuum.
>>
>>Vacuum smacuum,<g>  dE = hbar/dt, if you put enough energy into getting
>>something between 0.4, 54.4, and 7520 ev to get the light pairs from the
>>collision so that this equation is satisfied, you are not getting anything
>>for nothing.
>[snip]
>I hadn't noticed the "0.4" eV particle before. If you are seriously
>suggesting that this might exist, then surely chemistry wouldn't be the
>same. This is right in the range of normal chemical potentials, and one
>would expect to have seen many "unexplained" phenomena had this existed.

Probably so Robin. That is carrying the Me/137^3 or Re/137^3 to the 
extreme. The thing would have a "diameter" of 137 Angstroms. <G>

Should make a great nucleation site for boiling water,No? <G>

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 16 23:55:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA24774; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:30:19 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:30:19 -0800
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332CF2FF.41C67EA6 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:30:07 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Patent
References: <970317070015_100060.173_JHB51-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"jDkHN.0.y26.ACFBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4982
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Norman Horwood wrote:
> 
> Mr Soule,
> 
> Send me a working ou self-sustaining  motor-generator and I will 
> have it tested by the Royal Institution in Faraday's original labs. 


Its much simpler than that. Why hasn't Newman simply had
his motor tested by Little & Puthoff of EarthTech? They
would test it for free, and unlike the evil National
Bureau of Standards (now NIST), they believe in free energy
and want it to work. If EarthTech said it really worked, 
I'd be much more kindly disposed towards JN, and moreover
EarthTech could hook up JN with some solid investors 
to commercialize his product.

I can't imagine why Soule and Newman don't partake of EarthTech's
services. Makes no sense to me, unless they know a thorough
testing of his device will reach the exact same conclusion
as at NBS a decade ago. 

-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 00:10:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA26295; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:01:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:01:40 -0800
Message-Id: <199703170801.JAA32776 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:46:00 CET
Subject: Monstein effect
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"v7RD5.0.nQ6.YfFBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4983
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Christian Monstein, Stefan Marinov, and Albert Hauser have all 
experimentally seen the socalled Monstein effect in 3 different 
geographical locations. 

A permanent magnet is rotated along its NS axis at 6000-7000 rpm, and left 
to slow down by the friction in the bearings.

An asymmetry is found. If it rotates clockwise seen from the North pole, it 
slows down considerably more slowly than if it rotates counterclockwise.
(Of the order of 10% slower)

The effect doesnt seem to be much affected by the orientation of the 
rotation axis relative to north, south, east, west.

The effect does seem to depend in a nonlinear way on the angular velocity.

It could be interpreted as a change in the inertia of the magnet, and as 
inertia is closely related to gravity, it could be interpreted as a gravity 
effect, or an ether-effect.

The experiment is rather simple and inexpensive.

The last time the experiment were performed, brass bearings were used. The 
magnet could be loosened from the axis and north and south could be 
reversed, and the magnet fastned again. It is difficult to see why this 
should affect brass bearings, and it shouldnt affect the moment of inertia.

Previously the experiment has been performed with ball bearings and a 
plastic tube as axis. The results were very similar with ball bearings and 
brass bearings.

I dont immediately see a good, conventional-physics  explanation for this.

Does anyone know a good explanation for this result (apart from 
experimental error)?

Anders Heerfordt

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 00:24:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA27542; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:14:51 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:14:51 -0800
Message-ID: <332D0CC7.5575 gorge.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 01:20:07 -0800
From: tom gorge.net (Tom Miller)
Reply-To: tom gorge.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Patent
References: <199703170530.VAA13969 mx1.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"h7g4t3.0.Dk6.vrFBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4984
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To Joe Newman/evan Soule':

Background: Approximately 15 years ago, I went to a meeting in LA
in which Joe Newman demonstrated his motor. During the question
period, I asked why he didn't just start making them. He was too
concerned with patents, even then. He said we could make our own,
if we bought the book. So, I bought the book, even though it 
remains the most expensive book I have ever purchased. 

Then, as now, I wanted his machine to work, and still do, hope
 and wish that it will somehow actually be a benefit to both
you, and mankind. I wish you well in getting what you want out 
of life. 

BUT...

1. I "saw" it work, but I have also "seen" a magician make the Statue
of Liberty "disappear."

2. I read the book, and found that if I wasted a lot of time and energy, 
I just might, if I was lucky, end up with a machine which went round and
round, and destroyed batteries.

3. The book does present a theory on how magnetism works. This theory is 
the only rational idea I have yet seen on magnetism. I think that for 
this theory alone, Mr. Newman should be justly famous.

IF.. If only you would hire a competent electrical engineer, to design
a circuit to use the excess electricity; and you would hire a competent
writer to re-write the book so it is readable; if you would make
reasonable plans and drawings in the book; and if you would price the 
book reasonably, you could make millions. Assuming the thing really
works as advertized.

AS TO PATENTS: 

It is obvious that you are wasting enormous amounts of emotional energy
fretting about your patent. Do you somehow imagine that you are the 
only person who has been shafted by some dimwitted, or corrupt, 
bureaucrat?  Put it behind you, get what you can from this invention,
and invent something else. You are hurting yourself, and making enemies 
out of people who would rather root for you.

At first glance, I wanted to try to help you get your deserved patent.

THEN

I remembered that Mr. Soule' has seemed to claim that the patent will 
give Mr. Newman the rights to ANY AND ALL O/U inventions which use a 
magnetic coil and electric current. The people on this site are all
trying to find O/U, and many are looking at magnetics, coils, and 
electricity.

Do you think we are all stupid, to help you take away any such
inventions?

I wish you well, but please, please, think about doing business
differently.

Tom Miller

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 02:29:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA01725; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:30 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:30 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af52bbe5354b [199.237.131.228]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 01:22:29 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"fwSf5.0.rQ.mgHBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4985
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:22 PM 3/17/97, Elliot Kennel wrote:
> BTW,
>another bizarre feature of the effect is that it is increased under an
>electrostatic field, but eliminated in the presence of a transverse magnetic
>field. Very weird.
[snip]
>Best regards,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo

Bingo! There you go FJS! Could be good evidence, depending ...

So, Elliot, do you know if the electrostatic field is purpendicular to the
film and does it work with either (both) positive or negative gradient
toward the film? Is there a barrier preventing (electro-)chemical leaching
of the electrode into the film similar to what happens with Kirlian
Photography?  Is the electrostatic field non-ionizing in the locality of
the film emulsion? Is it a smooth DC gradient? There are lots of possible
explanations ...

As to low energy beta analysis, why not put some cathode samples into a
standard beta counting solution?  Could probably get the analysis done free
or at very low cost at a pharmacology lab. It's all automated. I think
standard run-of-the-mill liquid scintillation counters can count betas down
to around 10 KeV.  Liquid scintillation technique is very good because low
energy betas are stopped before they can be counted otherwise.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 02:29:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA01820; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:44 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530506af52cad0b67c [199.237.131.228]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 01:22:38 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Monstein effect
Resent-Message-ID: <"Crbqf1.0.ES.zgHBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4988
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 11:46 PM 3/16/97, I3683 wrote:
[snip]
>
>The effect doesnt seem to be much affected by the orientation of the
>rotation axis relative to north, south, east, west.
>
>The effect does seem to depend in a nonlinear way on the angular velocity.
[snip]
>Does anyone know a good explanation for this result (apart from
>experimental error)?
>
>Anders Heerfordt


There appears to be some kind of experimental error if the above
description is accurate.  That is because a clockwise rotation, as viewed
from the North, is a counterclockwise rotation viewed from the South, for
example. Clockwise is a relative term.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 02:29:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA01830; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:48 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530505af52c86424de [199.237.131.228]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 01:22:35 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen.
Resent-Message-ID: <"oSxKQ2.0.nR.ugHBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4987
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 1:23 PM 3/16/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>The current, I = V * (C/L)^1/2 should come out around 2,800 amperes
>when the capacitor dumps through the spark.
>
>The axial field set up around the spark channel, E = - d(phi)/dt
>or the self inductance field, E = - L * dI/dt along with many of
>the atoms around being stripped of all their electrons should make
>for an interesting experiment and/or a great water heater that can
>be used as a foot warmer. :-)
>
>Regards,       Frederick


These sound like nearly last resort methods.  There must be a more subtle
approach of some kind!


BTW, some good electron stripping experiments were done at LLNL. I don't
think any anomalous radiation was detected in the reformation of "naked" Pb
ions, for example. I have some info somewhere about it.  Was interested in
the experiment due te relevance to my Sub-orbital Hypothesis.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 02:29:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA01784; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:38 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 02:19:38 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530503af52c0654408 [199.237.131.228]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 01:22:32 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Resent-Message-ID: <"USNXh2.0.kR.ugHBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4986
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:01 PM 3/16/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:

>
>Probably so Robin. That is carrying the Me/137^3 or Re/137^3 to the
>extreme. The thing would have a "diameter" of 137 Angstroms. <G>
>
>Should make a great nucleation site for boiling water,No? <G>
>
>Regards,     Frederick

Don't forget the "standard particle size" limitation that has Frank Stenger
concerned can (should) be adjusted smaller as relativistic mass is added.
Same goes for de Broglie wavelength.  If they are normally found in
circumstances that make them nearly indistinguishable from electrons their
wavelengths should not be a significant factor.

It doesn't seem like lights would conduct very well due to size, but there
is a question of the effect of superpositioning of the quantum wave with
the metal lattice, and of concuction bands.  The waveform should be large
in a metal lattice due to the low "drift velocity", if that term has any
meaning or relavency in this context.  Could a large waveform normalize or
null out much of the effect of resistance?  Maybe a few experiments
concerning light lepton conduction speed are in order? Needed are simple
and *compatible* iron clad methods of both generation and detection though.


If heavy atoms are continually generating light electrons in the
near-nucleus space, then it is just a matter of stimulating or adding a
field gradient to the right material in order to  make it give up inner
light electrons. Non-conductive or semi-conductive metal iodide crystals
might fill that role.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 03:11:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA04584; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 03:01:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 03:01:41 -0800
Message-Id: <199703171101.MAA05764 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:54:00 CET
Subject: Monstein effect
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"a0ODY3.0.Y71.IIIBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4989
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To make it more precise

An asymmetry is found. 
If the magnet rotates clockwise when viewed from the North pole, (which is 
counterclockwise when viewed from the South pole), it slows down 
considerably more slowly than if it rotates counterclockwise when viewed 
from the North pole (which is clockwise when viewed from the South Pole).

I just realized that standard physics could predict this. A magnet could be 
viewed as a circular current in the counterclockwise direction when viewed 
from the North pole. If the magnet is rotated in the clockwise direction 
when viewed from the Northpole, this current would increase (because it 
consists of negative electrons moving clockwise when viewed from the north 
pole). Consequently the magnetic moment of the magnet would increase, and 
the magnetic energy of the magnet would increase. It would require more 
energy to spin the magnet up to 6000 rpm, and it would slow down more 
slowly.

Whether the effect has the numeric magnitude that theory would predict, 
could perhpas be answered after quantitative calculations.

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 03:43:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA17488; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 03:34:17 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 03:34:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130500af52d2e203ec [153.34.203.133]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:36:22 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"jlKTx.0.AH4.tmIBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4990
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>At 12:06 AM 3/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>>To: Vortex
>>>
>>>Evan Soule' writes:
>>>
>>>    And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
>>>    Newman, "Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
>>>    contact us as soon as you receive your patent."  I was a witness to
>>>    several of these 'real world' incidents.
>>>
>>>This is nonsense. If a large corporation saw a promising technology with no
>>>patent coverage, they would steal it faster than you can say knife. They
>>>do that ALL THE TIME. Hundreds of companies took the original IBM PC design!
>>
>>Dear Jed,
>>
>>I really, personally, resent your statement: "This is nonsense."
>>If you calling me a liar --- just have the courage to say so directly.
>
>I agree with Jed.  It is nonsense.  I don't think you or Newman are liars,
>just sadly mistaken, blinded by a strong desire for glory.

Dear Gary,

While you are welcome to agree with Jed, your choosing to believe something
is nonsense does not make it nonsense.

Question:  Have you read Joseph Newman's book?

As to our "blindness" --- while I appreciate the complimentary
psychoanalysis, Dr. Freud, I must nonetheless beg to differ with your
studied opinion.  I seem to remember another twist to the subject of
"blindness" --- let's see.... how does it go:  "...there are none so blind
as those who will not see..."

Question:  Have you read Joseph Newman's book?

If it's 'glory' we're after, speaking for myself there must be an "easier way!"

>
>The floatation device of Newman IS nonsense.  I submit that it is no
>more elaborate than this:
>
>http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/images/newman.jpg
>
>That air balloon heats in the sun, and then rises.  Newman runs enough
>current through wire to heat the balloon, and is mystified when it
>rises.  "It's gyroscopic!"  ...to the myopic.

The process featured on the above URL has nothing in common with the ELD
developed by Joseph Newman.  Gary, I'm afraid that there are no glasses on
Earth which would aid your apparent nearsightedness on this point.....
(P.S. I'm speaking figuratively, not literally.)

You still don't get it?  It is the VOLTAGE _not_ the current which is HIGH.
Sure, if anyone ran high amperage through the coil surrounding such a
balloon it is quite possible to "heat it" --- this is why, in this
instance, the VOLTAGE is HIGH and the amperage is low.

>
>That balloon is available from Edmund Scientific.
>
>Please quit making me turn skeptical.  I don't like it very much.
>
>Gary Hawkins

I certainly don't enjoy it either.  Moreover, I am not "making" you do
anything.  The _choice_ to be a pathological sceptic is entirely your own.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 03:43:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA17524; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 03:34:25 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 03:34:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130502af52da6ac91c [153.34.203.133]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:36:25 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"t1rCu2.0.kH4._mIBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4991
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

LETTER 1:

>Mr Soule',
>
>>> Joseph Newman has met and exceeded all statutory requirements of Patent Law
>and asks only for the equal opportunity to present his invention in the
>marketplace with patent protection. <<
>
>So what's stopping the commercial implementation - he's covered?  A few models
>for public demonstration wouldn't cost the earth.  If all the design
>details are
>in the public domain where are all the working copies and the news media.  Send
>me a working ou self-sustaining  motor-generator and I will have it tested by
>the Royal Institution in Faraday's original labs.  The RI are set up to educate
>the non-scientific public in scientific matters, and they would appreciate a
>small royalty from the commercialisation of such a device - say 1% of sales in
>return for their promotion of your motor to the British industrial scene.  If
>the RI say the thing is genuine then there would be no obstacle to it being
>accepted by any manufacturer - the inventive priority has been established.
>
>Norman

Dear Norman,

Here's my offer to you:

1)  Build your own, independent Newman Motor/Generator which generates
"Greater External Output Than External Energy Input."  Test it to your
heart's content.

and/or

2)  If you know if someone who would be interested in financing
commercialization, please contact me at:  (504) 524-3063 or Joseph Newman
at: (601) 947-7147, Newman Energy Products, Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS
39452.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'

P.S. If you would like to obtain a videotape containing over 75 minutes of
nationwide publicity --- National CBS Evening News Report (on the
technology) with Dan Rather, National CNN News, a 5-Part Special Report on
the Technology by WWL-TV (the CBS Affiliate), a Documentary by WYES (the
PBS Affiliate), Joseph Newman's appearance on the Tonight Show, and a video
of the independent construction and verification of operability of the
technology by a builder in Philadelphia --- let me know.


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY

----------------------------------------------------
LETTER 2:

>Norman Horwood wrote:
>>
>> Mr Soule',
>>
>> Send me a working ou self-sustaining  motor-generator and I will
>> have it tested by the Royal Institution in Faraday's original labs.
>
>
>Its much simpler than that. Why hasn't Newman simply had
>his motor tested by Little & Puthoff of EarthTech? They
>would test it for free, and unlike the evil National
>Bureau of Standards (now NIST), they believe in free energy
>and want it to work. If EarthTech said it really worked,
>I'd be much more kindly disposed towards JN, and moreover
>EarthTech could hook up JN with some solid investors
>to commercialize his product.
>
>I can't imagine why Soule' and Newman don't partake of EarthTech's
>services. Makes no sense to me, unless they know a thorough
>testing of his device will reach the exact same conclusion
>as at NBS a decade ago.
>
>--
>Barry Merriman
>Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
>Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
>email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry


Dear Barry,

Since the NBS test was anything but "thorough" and "competently performed,"
I would say that anything remotely resembling their test would hardly be
considered either desirable or admirable.  Oh, Barry --- I noted what I
believe is your sarcasm above with the adjective "evil."  I'll put it this
way, Barry:  I would hardly consider the NBS/NIST an "unbiased" government
testing agency when NBS/NIST officials publicly issued comments ridiculing
the Energy Machine technology _BEFORE_ they conducted a single
(incompetently-performed) test!  Is such biased behavior "evil"?  I'll
leave that to others to decide.

And even though NBS/NIST bureaucrats were told NOT --- NOT --- to ground
the device, they _still_ grounded the device for _every_ test they
conducted.  One would think that in the pursuit of scientific honesty they
would have at least had the simple curiosity to try a few tests with the
machine ungrounded.  But no, they had their minds made up --- why confuse
them with any facts?  And grounding the device was only one of several
mistakes they made.  These mistakes are documented.

As to Little & Puthoff --- if they wish, they are free to construct their
own model of Joseph Newman's technology for their own use and
experimentation.  A Wiring/Construction Diagram has been made publicly
available.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'

----------------------------------------------------
LETTER 3:

>To Joe Newman/Evan Soule':
>
>Background: Approximately 15 years ago, I went to a meeting in LA
>in which Joe Newman demonstrated his motor. During the question
>period, I asked why he didn't just start making them. He was too
>concerned with patents, even then. He said we could make our own,
>if we bought the book. So, I bought the book, even though it
>remains the most expensive book I have ever purchased.

Dear Tom:

"Expensive" is a relative term.  There are some who would consider
purchasing a 1st Latin Edition of Isaac Newton's Principia Mathematica
"expensive" -- while there are others who would consider it "inexpensive"
at the price.

And yes, Joseph Newman _IS_ concerned with Patents.  Do you know why, Tom?

Really, Tom ---- do you know why?  Well I'll provide you an answer:  it is
because Joseph Newman does not want other inventors in the future to endure
what he has endured via the incompetent (corrupt?) bureaucrats at the
Patent Office.  Their behavior was not that envisioned by those who founded
this country.  Maybe it is acceptable for you to walk away from this.  It
is not acceptable to Joseph Newman.

>
>Then, as now, I wanted his machine to work, and still do, hope
> and wish that it will somehow actually be a benefit to both
>you, and mankind. I wish you well in getting what you want out
>of life.

Thank you.

>
>BUT...
>
>1. I "saw" it work, but I have also "seen" a magician make the Statue
>of Liberty "disappear."

Build your own prototype.  Experiment with and test if for yourself.

>
>2. I read the book, and found that if I wasted a lot of time and energy,
>I just might, if I was lucky, end up with a machine which went round and
>round, and destroyed batteries.

Going "round and round" is what motors often do best....torque is the
result.  And yes, in those early designs the batteries were destroyed by
the back-emf of the system.  This was further verified by engineers at
Ray-O-Vac.  And the point with those designs was to prove conclusively that
there was indeed "Greater External Energy Output Than External Energy
Input."  [I'd be happy to send you a number of oscilloscope photographs in
gif form which demonstrate this.]  Many improvements in the technology have
been made over the years, including a re-designed commutator and a version
which is intended to operate principally as a Motor (and secondarily as a
Generator) --- the reverse of the early designs.

>
>3. The book does present a theory on how magnetism works. This theory is
>the only rational idea I have yet seen on magnetism. I think that for
>this theory alone, Mr. Newman should be justly famous.

I do sincerely thank you for your comliment.  Speaking only for my (biased)
self --- if I didn't know Joseph Newman, this alone would justify my
obtaining his book.  [Of course, earlier Editions are freely available via
the library system.]

>
>IF.. If only you would hire a competent electrical engineer, to design
>a circuit to use the excess electricity; and you would hire a competent
>writer to re-write the book so it is readable; if you would make
>reasonable plans and drawings in the book; and if you would price the
>book reasonably, you could make millions. Assuming the thing really
>works as advertized.

Well, thanks for your back-handed compliment.  Others have found the book
both readable and understandable --- I suppose it depends upon the
individual.  As to a "circuit to use the excess electricity" --- this is
one reason why the later designs are intended to principally harness the
mechanical torque....such as the design featured in the more recent
Wiring/Construction Diagram.

>
>AS TO PATENTS:
>
>It is obvious that you are wasting enormous amounts of emotional energy
>fretting about your patent. Do you somehow imagine that you are the
>only person who has been shafted by some dimwitted, or corrupt,
>bureaucrat?  Put it behind you, get what you can from this invention,
>and invent something else. You are hurting yourself, and making enemies
>out of people who would rather root for you.

There is no intention to make enemies out of anyone --- unless they are
acting unjustly and/or unethically.  Donovan F. Duggan is a historical
enemy --- this is simply a historical fact.  At least this proven
incompetent cannot harm any future inventors since he has been removed from
the Patent Office.  And "fret" is rather an inappropriate word.  Joe does
not "fret" about his patent.  He is confident that he will eventually
obtain it.  Period.  In the meanwhile, the injustices as they have occurred
cannot be overlook --- else we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes in
the future.  I don't know if Mr. Gould "fretted" about getting justice for
those 30 years --- but I am sure that he was confident that he would
eventually obtain it.

>
>At first glance, I wanted to try to help you get your deserved patent.
>
>THEN
>
>I remembered that Mr. Soule' has seemed to claim that the patent will
>give Mr. Newman the rights to ANY AND ALL O/U inventions which use a
>magnetic coil and electric current. The people on this site are all
>trying to find O/U, and many are looking at magnetics, coils, and
>electricity.
>
>Do you think we are all stupid, to help you take away any such
>inventions?
>
>I wish you well, but please, please, think about doing business
>differently.
>
>Tom Miller

First of all, Tom, I do something because I believe it to serve "justice."
Joseph Newman is due his patent for having met the statutory requirements
of the patent office.  If others come along and add improvements to his
original technology then they may indeed be entitled to patents for such
improvements --- there is certainly historical precedence for this.  The
sooner this is resolved then the soon the litigational log-jam that is
being generated will dissipate.  And, remember, I place the sole
responsibility for this log-jam in the lap of incompetent (or worse)
bureaucrats at highest levels of the patent office.

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 05:23:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA21002; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:12:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:12:50 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:08:05 +0100
Message-Id: <v01510100af52ea62942c [194.206.201.193]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: Eudora F1.5.1
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: jlagarde cyberaccess.fr (Jean_de_Lagarde)
Subject: Aquafuel
Resent-Message-ID: <"DMSHA.0.485.GDKBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4992
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

        The calculation that appears in IE #11(page 39 columns 2 &3), is
exactly the same as the one given in IE #10 (page 35, column 2) and it has
absolutely no meaning inasmuch as carbon has been taken from the electodes
(or admittedly from the biomass materials dissolved or dispersed in water)
to be incorporated in the aquafuel in the form of CO gas. To be valid, the
efficiency calculation should only take into account the hydrogen part of
aquafuel and in this case the efficiency drops to a normal value under
unity.
        On the other hand, I note that Richardson claims to produce 80
cubic feet of aquafuel with one Kwh of electricity (IE #11 page 40, second
paragraph), while Dw Energy Research claims only 8,48 cubic feet with 960
watt-hours, i.e. approximatively the same electric energy (IE #11 page 39,
bottom of the second column).
        IMHO either Richarson's method is 10 times better than Dw Energy
Research one and in this case the ratio of 6.66 to one indicated on top of
page 41 (between the two photos) would be credible but should be justified
by a correct calculation, or an error of a factor ten has been made
somewhere and Infinite Energy should stop talking about aquafuel.
        I wish to be proven wrong
                                        Jean DeLagarde


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 05:33:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA15617; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:17:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:17:48 -0800
Message-ID: <332D4765.26B5 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:00:13 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net,
        freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Magnetic Fields and Wires
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------41DE42262826"
Resent-Message-ID: <"VqUR81.0.fp3.uHKBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4993
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------41DE42262826
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

Several recent posts have caused me to realize that there is some
confusion as to why coils of wire do that they do and don't do.

I have attached several Gifs which, I hope, should help all to
understand wires and magnetic fields.

The first is of two wires with current flowing in both wires the same
way as it does in most coils.  Note that the flux contours show how the
flux from each wire aids the field of the other and that the total flux
is now starting to look like the flux we associate with a solenoid. The
effect is that the small flux from each wire adds to its neighbours and
the overall flux density is increased, the greater number of wires we
add.  When the field changes, in this config, all the wires sense a flux
change which causes the EMF generated by each wire to add to the total
and the coil shows magnetic inertia (Inductance).

The second is of two wires with current flowing in both wires in the
opposite direction as in a Bifilar coil.  Note that the flux contours
show how the flux from each wire opposes the flux from their
neighbours.  The effect is that the small flux from each wire has no
chance to aid the creation of a larger flux field.  When the field
changes, in this config (and there is a field, its just very small), the
EMF induced in each wire opposes that generated by its neighbour and
only a very small EMF is generated (mainly by the wires at the edge). 
The effect of all this is of a coil with very little magnetic inertia
(Inductance).

The third is of 4 wires in a Bifilar config.

>From this set of examples, it should be clear that magnetic fields are
not destroyed in Bifilar coils, they just don't add to their neighbours
to create a greater overall field.

As a side comment, it would be interesting to investigate the
characteristics in the first few nsec of current flow in a Bifilar
coil.  

If we have a two turn coil and applied a very sharp rise time current
pulse, we would find that before the electron energy flow had progressed
to the second (opposing turn), the magnetic field generated in the first
turn would induce a additive EMF in the second turn.  This additive EMF
would assist current being driven even harder into the coil.  
In other words, in a Bifilar coil, initial current flow (in the first
few nsec) would be even harder than that in a non-inductive circuit
member.  This is a very different situation to a normal coil, where the
current flow induces a opposing EMF and attempts to stop current flow.

Is this effect the cause of strange stories of funny things happening
with Bifilar coils?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------41DE42262826
Content-Type: image/gif; name="bifilar5.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bifilar5.gif"
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--------------41DE42262826
Content-Type: image/gif; name="bifilar6.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bifilar6.gif"
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--------------41DE42262826
Content-Type: image/gif; name="bifilar4.gif"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bifilar4.gif"
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--------------41DE42262826--



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 06:06:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA22716; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:55:07 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 05:55:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: O-U Plating Baths?
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:54:25 +0000
Message-ID: <19970317135423.AAA18595 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"qJON9.0.rY5.wqKBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4994
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:22 AM 3/17/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>Don't forget the "standard particle size" limitation that has Frank Stenger
>concerned can (should) be adjusted smaller as relativistic mass is added.
>Same goes for de Broglie wavelength.  If they are normally found in
>circumstances that make them nearly indistinguishable from electrons their
>wavelengths should not be a significant factor.
>
>It doesn't seem like lights would conduct very well due to size, but there
>is a question of the effect of superpositioning of the quantum wave with
>the metal lattice, and of concuction bands.  The waveform should be large
>in a metal lattice due to the low "drift velocity", if that term has any
>meaning or relavency in this context.  Could a large waveform normalize or
>null out much of the effect of resistance?  Maybe a few experiments
>concerning light lepton conduction speed are in order? Needed are simple
>and *compatible* iron clad methods of both generation and detection though.
>
>
>If heavy atoms are continually generating light electrons in the
>near-nucleus space, then it is just a matter of stimulating or adding a
>field gradient to the right material in order to  make it give up inner
>light electrons. Non-conductive or semi-conductive metal iodide crystals
>might fill that role.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
If I follow you correctly on this Horace, the Edison Effect might show a few 
Light Leptons (Leprechauns,<g>) even when the "plate" is negative? The
tungsten filament might do something like the lead?

Regards,       Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 06:37:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA20542; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:11:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:11:42 -0800
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:11:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703171411.JAA21354 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <m0w5mha-0004M7C mirage.skypoint.com> (jlogajan@skypoint.com)
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS WARNING]
Resent-Message-ID: <"bpFvC3.0.u05.R4LBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4995
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   John Logajan said:

  > The "Good Times" virus is a hoax.  It was a hoax the last time
  > it came around, as well as the previous dozen times it has
  > come around.  There aint no such thing.

     The message IS the virus.  Technically, it is a memenetic virus,
not a computer virus.  It infects people who feel compelled to spread
the virus (the e-mail message) to others.

     Fortunately it isn't very harmful, and people who have once been
fooled are usually immunized against futher infection by this class of
meme.


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 07:16:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA27203; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:04:19 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:04:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Ed Wall <ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Explain, please
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:49:21 +0000
Message-ID: <19970317144919.AAA20496 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"AYDEs2.0.ze6.nrLBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4996
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Kirk,

You wrote:
Since Ed asked for an explanation...  (text inside "" "" is Ed's text)

Ed:
""There is a general image of science in western society that holds it as an
epistemilogical bedrock upon which every other yearning for certainty can be
based."" 

Kirk:
The general populace may feel that way, but there are other thoughts on the 
subject.  I find Bauer's book 'Scientific Literacy and the Myth of the 
Scientific Method' very useful, and I will base most of my following 
comments on my general agreement with Bauer's presentation.

Ed:
Scientific thought, IMHO, was the crux of the renaissance: the placement of
reason as the rightful determinant of good and bad, real and unreal.
Scientific thought became accessible to the masses.  Unfortunately, the
distinction between good scientific thought (empiricism) and intuitively
agreeable thought has become blurred.  The public is handed reasonable
speculations as if they were scientific fact so often that most people lose
the fine distinction between what can be repeatedly, accurately tested and
what just plain makes intuitive sense.  The power play that results is that
people no longer trust their own thinking--they look to the scientists as
the final authorities on reality, so the scientific authorities become
political targets for exploitation for political ends(PR).  To be interested
in chemically induced nuclear reactions is acceptable, but no matter how
strong the evidence, believing in it's reality is to become a pariah of sorts.


""Watching the developments in the brief but furious history of CF
does not fit well with this expectation, providing credible fodder for most
every journalist to see an appearance of befuddlement and fraud.""
<snip>

""An empiricist must not get caught in either extreme.""

Kirk:
Except that many empiricists defend their work as unassailable as vigorously 
as any theoretician, and many theoreticians are not locked into their own 
beliefs.  So your comment is a statement of your personal belief, obviously 
not shared by many...

Ed:
I was not being clear enough.  The extremes to which I refer are of the view
of science as the incomparable standard of knowledge, against which all
other forms of knowledge must defer and the other that holds it to be some
sort of curious fetish that makes life harder for the one obsessed with
scientific knowledge and easier for the rest of us.  My original point being
that science is the product of limited knowledge and finite time, and
therefore imperfect and lacking in complete scope.  Tacit knowledge is not
empirical, but we cannot survive without it.  If survival is more important
than understanding, such knowledge our bodies have to continue functioning
is superior to that our minds have to communicate abstractions to each
other. Reality is the final arbiter, but my purpose is not to establish a
knowledge heirarchy of importance.  There are different types of knowledge
that do not compare heirarchically to any benefit.  I am not seeking
agreement so much as understanding.

""What an empiricist believes is not as significant as what he can prove to 
himself and that looking forward is what pushes the envelope.  That looking 
forward instead of toward one's own beliefs means not attending to defending 
one's beliefs like the typical theorist does, with the ensuing 
vulnerabilities suffered.""

Kirk:
That's an interesting point of view, but I get a bit confused while reading 
it.  I think I'll pass on a more direct comment...

Ed:
Growing cultures always have had protected classes.  Groups of individuals
who were shielded from the usual daily drugery of maintenance of life, such
as certain artisans and scientists.  Such individuals have been allowed to
pursue such paths because their benefactors had faith in the demonstrated
ability of such individuals to bear good fruit.  This becomes instituted
into state sponsored research programs.  What were once individuals
selflessly committing themselves to the pursuit of vital knowledge for the
sake of posterity supported by similar minded individuals sacrificing their
wealth degenerates into the lust for prestige, the mystique of esoteric
scientific knowledge, political power and big money.  Peer review becomes
microscopically specialized 'sneer review.'  We learn in college to go where
the money is, to believe what we will be paid to believe.  A modern
individual must interact with complex strategies of insinuation from many
sides (political involvements).  The idealistic strivings that started him
on his path seem naively absurd.

Real empirical progress still occurs.  However, I am deeply concerned with
the cultural equivalence that paints empirical methodologies with the same
credibility brush as speculative and 'soft' sciences that have trouble even
defining their object of study (sociology, psychology, economics,
palentology, etc.).

The empiricist can so easily replace his forward look with a cynical
defensive posture, since even the distinction of his rock solid work is
blurred.  Apparently, Kirk, you seem to belief that the scientific method is
mythical.  Well, without falling off a philosophical precipice, how have we
arrived at any conclusions about the validity of scientific laws?  Did Ohm's
law appear miraculously?  I think you will agree it was reasoned out from
much observation and experience leading to guesses about what the different
parameters involved contributed and what did not contribute to what
eventually emerged as a relation.  We formalize such processes into a
seemingly sterile 'scientific method,' but that does not mean the process
has arrived at something untrue.  

Before developments of theories, anomalies are found, then are usually
explained by accepted theories.  But sometimes not.  This forum exists
because numerous anomalies have not been explained adequately by accepted
theories, such as sonoluminescence.  If such an anomaly indeed exists, then
we know that the theories are inadequate, which opens the possibility of
further discovery and demands new theory.  In Kuhn's _The Structure of
Scientific Revolutions_, the scientific establishment contrives more and
more complex explanations for the obervations, or ignores them altogether.
Authorities of all types, political or scientific, do not tolerate
fundamental contradiction well, as Giordano Bruno learned.  Authorities will
not admit their fault until it is politically advantageous to do so.

So, the stakes are high, indeed.  I do not request anyone to jump ship and
abandon any conventions.  I want to understand.

""When an explorer of new approaches receives criticism, he must react as 
any human being to defend or modify his position, so the attention is no 
longer directed forward.  This is not so bad because without valid 
criticism, exploration can become wandering.""

Kirk:
True, but in Bauer's context the only way the unknown can be discovered is 
by wandering, or by a serendipitous recognition of a previously unrecognized 
fact.

Ed:
A fruitful wanderer in this context is one who has accumulated a lot of
experience, his own and others, and so has internalized criticism into his
critical faculties.  Wandering has no premeditation.

Distinctions like theorist vs. experimentalist are useful for seeing how we
think and disgree, but are inherently illusory.
<snip>

Ed:
""But, if the balance is lost, so is the forward momentum.  Bickering over 
what is pure and simple in order to spare one's ego a feeling of inferiority 
or insecurity is no small waste in this arena.""

Kirk:
The is absolutely true.  My own experiences have taught me that most people 
try to view a situation in a 'binary' fashion.  It is, or it isn't. <snip>

Ed:
Ultimately, the proposition we are discussing is binary, however.  Either
the reactions in question have a nuclear component, the transmutation is
real or is is not.  The more data, the firmer the more acceptance the
conclusions will have if a consistent pattern emerges.

Kirk:
Also, losing forward momentum is good if you are heading for a cliff.

Ed:
So true!  That is the main reason I respectfully request answers.  These are
not rhetorical questions.  If I am wrong in the direction I have taken, I
want to know about it!

""Being a non-specialist, I do not have the wherewithal to know what sort of 
validity may exist in what *seem* utterly ludicrous objections to the nuclear 
signature claims by so many experimentalists."" 

Kirk:
Now, now.  "Non-specialist" status doesn't confer the right to assign the 
label "utterly ludicrous".

Ed:
'Non-specialist' does mean 'seem' requests clarification from specialists
who can phrase such objections in non-esoteric form.

""I deal in signal to noise ratios.  When a signal shows up with a 
significant decibel ratio, there is no dispute about its existence.""

Kirk:
To be technically correct, you must realize that you imply that the detected 
signal is distinguishable from error.  That requires a solid knowledge of 
the magnitude and the rate of occurrence of the errors of the technique 
applied, in all aspects of implementation.

Ed:
Precisely, that's why I asked the following question.  

""How can 2nd and 3rd order calorimetry effects explain consistent 3 order 
of magnitude OU?""

Kirk:
Hmmm...that of course would be the intent of a publication or posting that 
purports to explain how that could happen.  I would have to say that you 
would need to read and study the given claim in detail to understand it.

Ed:
Of course, you are under no obligation to help resolve my frustration.  This
forum is more intended to provide an exchange for those involved in the
actual research, so perhaps I should just lurk, particularly since I do not
have ready access to such materials and am not specialized enough to
understand much of it (BSEE, currently working far from any good libraries).

""How can 40% of the metal in a sealed experimental apparatus changing its 
elemental state be explained by non-nuclear processes?""

Kirk:
You refer to the Miley/Patterson paper I gather.  How it can happen is that 
the experimental error (i.e. reproducibility) seems to be on the order of 
the sample size itself.  Thus 40% is less than 1 standard deviation, and in 
fact the conclusion I would draw is that no change has occurred.  

Ed:
Then, why would a man with George Miley's experience and reputation conclude
as he did?  Is he not thoroughly schooled in statistical data analysis?  Is
such a man likely to make such a simple error on such an important conclusion?

""Who can explain how xenon gas can accumulate in relatively high 
concentrations in a cell, but through transmutation?""

Kirk:
Who?  Anyone who can demonstrate a contamination route...  

(Contamination is the 'generic' explanation of any unexpected appearances, 
including novel new molecular arrangements not even involving 
transmutations.  Normally the researchers then try to identify and eliminate 
contamination sources, just as Miley and Patterson did, and/or produce the 
new material in bulk and as a major product through the application of good 
synthetic chemical technology.  Trying to work at trace levels is an 
exercise requiring lots and lots of time, money, and patience.)

Ed:
Contamination has to be assumed.  That is why concentration levels far in
excess of those found in the environment and unnatural isotope ratios found
in the samples seem so significant.  Valid criticism would have to explain
how the contamination could concentrate, how isotopes can be found in such
ratios.

Kirk:
Technically speaking however, when researchers propose an idea (such as 
transmutation) to explain their results, and an apparently viable 
counter-explanation is proposed, it is normally taken as the job of the 
original proponents to differentiate.  
<snip>

Ed:
""Are all these different means of calorimetry and spectometry, developed 
over so many decades in billion-dollar industries so imprecise?""

Kirk:
Usually not when used in the exact manner in which they were designed or 
proven.  However, applying a technology to a new situation always opens the 
door to the chance that the application is incorrect in that case.


Ed:
""There comes a time to open your eyes, gird your loins and change your 
beliefs.  Isn't it now?""

Kirk:
It would be if the evidence is compelling.  This usually takes time to 
establish, and reproductions to ascertain.

Ed:
Previously, I did not bring up the evidence that Julian Schwinger found so
compelling (cover of IE#1).  Roger Stringham's ultrasonic cavitation device
has high reproducability, artifactual evidence of Pd melting while immersed
in heavy water, excess heat, He4 and metallic elemental transmutation.  The
use of light water with Pd and no other changes yields no anomalies.  There
is no chemical difference between heavy and light water, only a nuclear
difference.  Therefore, the differences in result between heavy and light
water have to be explained in terms of nuclear properties.  If this is not
conclusive, I wish someone would explain why not.  This is not a
quantitative result that demands more expensive equipment to get better
accuracy.  It looks binary to me.

""It seems to me that disputing these findings should be done in preparation
of accurate replication, unless an actual flaw in the method has been 
seen.""

Kirk:I would say rather that accurate replication with contrasting results
is the 
strongest form of disputation.  

Ed:
Providing contrasting and consistent multiple replications by numerous
competent parties, yes.  This stuff is too important and there have been too
many positive results and the means of erring too easy for a lower standard.
<snip>

""The duty of the theorist is not to cling to the past.  It is to explain 
the present in view of the past.  It is for the experimentalists to 
determine what is actually being found as accurately as possible.""  

Kirk:
Hmm...see my comments at the end...

Ed:
""We do not have time, nor can we take the risk, for the slugfest that hails 
as the true victor whoever can pull off the slickest PR campaign.""

Kirk:
Here, here, but, unfortunately, PR tends to get funding, so we're probably 
stuck with it...

Ed:
So much more the reason to applaud Gene Mallove and the others who work to
establish and disseminate fact. If there were even the slightest chance that
chemically induced nuclear reactions are real, they are  heroes for that
alone.  Well, as you may surmise, I believe that the chance is much more
than slight, better described as certain.  I am trying to understand more
about the politics (PR) and the science.

""It should be added that the classification of people into either
experimentalists or theorist is false, because we are all both with diverse
emphasis.""

Kirk:
I agree completely.  That's why I had so much trouble with that passages I 
noted above.  On any given day, any given researcher can be functioning as a 
theorist or an experimentalist or both.  The terms are really not helpful 
except as stereotypes, which of course are used by people who don't want to 
think and understand.

The purpose of theory (not theoreticians) is to provide a framework that 
explains natural occurrences in a given situation with some degree of 
accuracy, thereby providing a measure of predictive power in related 
situations.  The purpose of experiment (not experimentalists) is to provide 
accurate observations, which can either be used to validate a theory, 
invalidate a theory, or stimulate a new theory.  Human fallibility means 
that neither is achieved to perfection.

Kirk Shanahan  

Ed:
One who engages in theory is a theorist (to some extent), one who
experiments, an experimentalist.  Seems moot.


A pleasure corresponding,
Ed Wall

Where was the ACLU during the Waco seige?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 07:37:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA28829; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:25:32 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:25:32 -0800 (PST)
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:24:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970317102431_-2074327270 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Aspden-Adams Motor
Resent-Message-ID: <"3G6NX.0.M27.f9MBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4997
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a message dated 97-03-16 12:41:58 EST, Jean DeLegarde wrote: 

<< " One of the applicants has built an operative test machine which is
 configured as depicted schematically in Fig 4. The machine has been proved
 to deliver substantially more mechanical power output than is supplied as
 electrical input, as much as a ratio of 7:1 in one version, and it can act
 regeneratively to produce electrical power"
 
 If such a machine does exist (at least since sept 1993, date of filing), it
 should be very easy  to test it in Gene Mallove's test facility or at
 EarthTech International. Why could not that be done immediately ?
  >>

The machine in question is illustrated and the test results are discussed in
Aspden's Aether Science Report #9. It is a proof-of-principle device,
requiring careful interpretation of the measurements, rather than a
demonstration machine. Similar claims (7:1 o/u) are made for the Muller
machine which is described at http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmtechpro1.html
  .

Aspden lives in England, Muller near Vancouver, and Gene in New Hampshire.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 08:26:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA31411; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:59:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:59:42 -0800
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/0003555F xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>, Vortex-L
	 <Vortex-L eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Fleischmann, x-rays
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:59:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"N1l4L2.0.fg7.jfMBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4998
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Elliot	
	It is unlikely that any 50kev or lower x-rays would
 get through any material surrounding a CF experiment.
For example the total mean-free-path in Cu at 50kev
is 0.04357 cm. Thus the lower energy X-rays would be
absorbed in the calorimeter and show up as heat. Some higher
energy photons would get through if generated, but would
have show up on radiation meters, and I gather this is not
the case.
Hank Scudder
 ----------
From: Elliot Kennel
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Fleischmann, x-rays
Date: Sunday, March 16, 1997 7:22PM
<snip>
        Yet other groups have used film, found that it is exposed and
jumped
to the conclusion that it is due to x-rays, and generated the hypothesis
that these x-rays may carry large amounts of energy away.  Some groups
(whose names I will not identify to protect the guilty, but you can find
them by carefully perusing the ICCF-6 proceedings) have gone to
significant
lengths to add radiation shielding to their CF experiments, fearing that
the
excess heat will leak out in the form of x-rays.  Although, as Scott and
others have correctly pointed out, if the radiation WERE x-rays, the
total
amount of energy which might be lost is on the order of microjoules, NOT
anything significant from a thermal point of view.  Perhaps Dr.
Fleischmann
is aware of the claims made by these groups, but he may not have gone
through the numbers to see the non-sequitur in their reasoning.
        So in summary, I think there IS a real effect;  some groups have
observed it and jumped to the conclusion that there is a massive energy
loss
due to x-ray production.  Other groups are studying the effect more
systematically, but have yet to pin down the nature of the effect.

Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 09:05:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA07934; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703171651.IAA04901 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:54:07 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Rising and falling heart shaped balloons
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <2.2.32.19970317061751.00b85480 mail.eskimo.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"sSh1c.0.rx1.RQNBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/4999
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I never did manage to build the Neuman version of the ballon machine but
finally that Valentines day ballon has about died. For the most part these
days it rests on the floor unable to rise. However my ten year old daughter
seems to have invented perpetual motion. She places the ballon in a sunbeam. 
in a moment the ballon begins to rise toward the ceiling. As it drifts out of 
the sunbeam (perhaps 2 feet off the floor) it slows to a stop and begins to 
fall back to the floor. It never quite makes it back through the 2 foot high 
sunbeam to the floor and begins to rise again. It will do this until the cat, 
driven crazy by the dangling ribbon, attacks. 

We have talked about patenting the cat as an OU arresting invention. Biological 
patents are hot items these days. If anyone would like to invest they can send 
either money or cat food. 

Russ George

ps Does anyone think we'll be sued by Neuman over the cat patent.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 09:20:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA06405; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:51:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:51:45 -0800
Message-Id: <199703171651.IAA04928 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 08:54:07 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: The Patent
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <v02130500af5255405671 [153.34.200.43]>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"BjXDq1.0._Z1.WQNBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5000
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> Dear Russ,
> 
> The essence of the above statement is indeed "patently" absurd.
> Fortunately the Founding Fathers of our country would disagree with the
> essence of your statements.  And because they understood the nature and
> importance of fostering and protecting our innovators --- especially
> _MAJOR_ innovators (not just someone who has an "improved tinker toy") ---
> they originally entrusted this important task to our patent office via
> Congress.

Oh please don't start with tha "founding fathers" bs. No wonder you are 
stalled.


 
 
> I hate the be the one to break the news to you, but "Welcome to the real world."
> 
> And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
> Newman, "Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
> contact us as soon as you receive your patent."  I was a witness to several
> of these 'real world' incidents.  And one of the most recent of such
> incidents was a top research scientist for a major Fortune 500 company ---
> a scientist, BTW, who is totally convinced (along with his colleagues at
> the company in question) in the operability of Joseph Newman's technology.
> This individual put it very simply: "The top executives at the company I
> work for are ready to sign a production agreement with you once you obtain
> your patent."

AND YOU TOOK THIS SERIOUSLY. That's known as sucker talk at the deli here on 
Sand Hill Road (center of the VC universe). 

 
> And speaking of the quaint quote, "put up or shut up":  Russ, this quote
> should really be directed to the bureaucrats at the Patent Office.  If the
> patent office is incapable of "putting up" competent patent examiners to
> process Patent Applications, then the patent office should "shut up" and
> issue Patents in lawful accordance with their _own_ Rules and Regulations
> -- or shut down.

You'll get little satisfaction shooting at the patent office. Those fish have 
been in that barrel so long they have evolved bullet proof scales.

 
AS for the comment about patent protection and waiting for that to go to 
market. Surely you don't mean you have not filed for patents in any one of the 
myriad "registration" countries around the world. As wonderful a device as you 
describe would have a patent in a month in myriad countries who issue just for 
the cost of filing. You'd be millionaires and the saviours of the people 
of Ghana for example if you applied this concept there. 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 09:27:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA08816; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:13:11 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:13:11 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen.
Cc: rl_brodzinski pnl.gov
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:12:27 +0000
Message-ID: <19970317171225.AAA17319 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"EhMIf1.0.f92.ckNBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5001
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mon, 17 Mar 97 10:19:46 +0000

Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>There must be a more subtle approach of some kind!
>

The vacuum tube that Frank Stenger suggested, if it has a direct
heated filament-cathode co-axial with the plate might be a way to 
see if there are any positive light electrons coming off of the
cathode. A coil wound around the tube to get an axial B field to rule 
out positive ions would suffice. However an electrometer sensitive
enough to detect atto-ampere currents might also be measuring leakage
currents between the feedthru's of the tube.

This is why I only do Thought Experiments, that way if any "Artifacts"
crop up I can ignore them.  :-)

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 10:01:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA11387; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:29:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:29:00 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:27:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970317122710_-1170367933 emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, CldFusion@aol.com, zettsjs@ml.wpafb.af.mil,
        Puthoff aol.com, fstenger@interlaced.net, 101544.702@compuserve.com,
        RVargo1062 aol.com, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, noever@webtv.net,
        GeorgeHM aol.com
Subject: poster paper
Resent-Message-ID: <"fioG2.0.on2.RzNBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5002
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I've been invited by Marc Millis of Nasa's break through propulsion labs at
Lewis to present my paper, "The Source of Inertial and Gravitational Mass"
this August.  Hal Puthoff see you there.  \George Miley see you there.
 Storms is getting an invite to..I will see him again also.

It will be fun.

Frank Znidarsic

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 10:03:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA11704; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:31:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:31:02 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:29:34 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970317122800_1882023687 emout06.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
cc: little eden.com
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"235a11.0.os2.L_NBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5003
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


In a message dated 3/16/97 11:34:49 PM, you wrote:
Evan,

You said (to Jed Rothwell):

<<Joseph Newman has published a Wiring & Construction Diagram featuring one
of the most recent applications of his technology.  HAVE AT IT!!!!!>>

I would like to receive a copy, as we would consider building it.

H. E. Puthoff, Ph.D.
EarthTech Intern'l, Inc.
4030 W. Braker Lane, Suite 300
Austin, TX  78759-5329

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 10:32:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16597; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:16:11 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:16:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130502af5344e5b968 [153.34.200.33]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:18:07 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"homme3.0.F34.ffOBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5006
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>> Dear Russ,
>>
>> The essence of the above statement is indeed "patently" absurd.
>> Fortunately the Founding Fathers of our country would disagree with the
>> essence of your statements.  And because they understood the nature and
>> importance of fostering and protecting our innovators --- especially
>> _MAJOR_ innovators (not just someone who has an "improved tinker toy") ---
>> they originally entrusted this important task to our patent office via
>> Congress.
>
>Oh please don't start with tha "founding fathers" bs. No wonder you are
>stalled.

Oh, please don't start with your "hang-up with my mention of the Founding
Fathers" b.s. --- No wonder you are suffering from pathological scepticism.

>
>> I hate the be the one to break the news to you, but "Welcome to the real
>>world."
>>
>> And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
>> Newman, "Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
>> contact us as soon as you receive your patent."  I was a witness to several
>> of these 'real world' incidents.  And one of the most recent of such
>> incidents was a top research scientist for a major Fortune 500 company ---
>> a scientist, BTW, who is totally convinced (along with his colleagues at
>> the company in question) in the operability of Joseph Newman's technology.
>> This individual put it very simply: "The top executives at the company I
>> work for are ready to sign a production agreement with you once you obtain
>> your patent."
>
>AND YOU TOOK THIS SERIOUSLY. That's known as sucker talk at the deli here on
>Sand Hill Road (center of the VC universe).

Whose said I took it seriously?  The effect is the same, either way.  I am
reporting __explicitly__ what was stated by these individuals.  To what
degree the individuals at such corporations would (will) steal the
technology and to what extent they will act honorably --- only they and
their God would know this answer.  We already have major corporations who
have plundered the technology --- so I have no delusions about the extent
of their integrity.

>
>
>> And speaking of the quaint quote, "put up or shut up":  Russ, this quote
>> should really be directed to the bureaucrats at the Patent Office.  If the
>> patent office is incapable of "putting up" competent patent examiners to
>> process Patent Applications, then the patent office should "shut up" and
>> issue Patents in lawful accordance with their _own_ Rules and Regulations
>> -- or shut down.
>
>You'll get little satisfaction shooting at the patent office. Those fish have
>been in that barrel so long they have evolved bullet proof scales.

Those "fish" are still human bureaucrats.  If I interpret your statement to
mean that you resign yourself to whatever injustice they choose to dish out
-- then please, speak for yourself.

>
>AS for the comment about patent protection and waiting for that to go to
>market. Surely you don't mean you have not filed for patents in any one of the
>myriad "registration" countries around the world. As wonderful a device as you
>describe would have a patent in a month in myriad countries who issue just for
>the cost of filing. You'd be millionaires and the saviours of the people
>of Ghana for example if you applied this concept there.
>
>Russ

Yes, patents have been filed worldwide.  And, since you have chosen to
bring it up --- if you know of someone in "Ghana" who would like to assist
in developing commercialization there --- do let me know.  [Don't worry, I
won't hold my breath.  :-)]

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 10:40:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA14893; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:54:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:54:22 -0800
Message-ID: <332D851C.615D worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:53:36 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Patent
References: <2.2.32.19970317061751.00b85480 mail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"PFqYS2.0.Ze3.CLOBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5004
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Gary Hawkins wrote:

   >  The floatation device of Newman IS nonsense.  I
   >  submit that it is no more elaborate than this:
   >  
   >  
   >  http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/images/newman.jpg
   >  
   >  That air balloon heats in the sun, and then rises.
   >  Newman runs enough current through wire to heat
   >  the balloon, and is mystified when it rises.  "It's
   >  gyroscopic!"  ...to the myopic.
   >  
   >  That balloon is available from Edmund Scientific.
   >  
   >  Please quit making me turn skeptical.  I don't like
   >  it very much.

I don't know if or how that balloon thing works, but the description of
it, and the way it is described to bob up or down depending on whether
or not electricity is flowing has nothing at all to do with the Edmund
Scientific thermal balloon. Assuming, of course, that the description of
the device and its behavior are accurate. 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 11:05:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA18694; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:22:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:22:15 -0800
Date: 17 Mar 97 13:19:54 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: The Patent
Message-ID: <970317181954_72240.1256_EHB58-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"nkfj22.0.0a4.LlOBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5007
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Evan Soule writes:

     I really, personally, resent your statement: "This is nonsense." If you
     calling me a liar --- just have the courage to say so directly.

If I thought you were a liar I would never hesitate say so. I think you are
deluded, and I am sure you know nothing about business. I repeat, hundreds of
companies grabbed the original, unpatented IBM PC design. Companies like
Compaq and Dell took it as quickly as they could, and made billions of dollars
from it. Yet you claim that without a patent a business cannot flourish! And
you say businesses never steal free ideas! To give another example, Window 95
was based on the Macintosh interface, which in turn was based on Xerox PARC
software. Microsoft, IBM, and Visi-On stole the idea from Apple, which stole
it from Xerox, which got it from Engelbart, who invented it at SRI. Yet nobody
alone the line, not Microsoft, IBM, Visi-On or Apple, ever paid a dime in
royalties or got a single patent for it. Until recently you could not even get
a patent for software. That has not kept Bill Gates from becoming the richest
man in the world.

Soule suggests:

     Yes, Jed, Build Your Own Prototype: Then you can independently test it
     to your heart's content, experiment with it "before the cows are even
     aware that they want to come home."  :-) . . . Joseph Newman has
     published a Wiring & Construction Diagram featuring one of the most
     recent applications of his technology.  HAVE AT IT!!!!!

Out of the question. I am not capable or qualified, and I have absolutely no
interest in doing that. You might as well demand that I fabricate my own
computer chip. Why would I bother to copy a machine that already exists?!?
There is no reason on earth why I should. If the machine is real you can
demonstrate it to me at no cost, with little effort, in such a way that will
convince me -- or any other rational person -- in a few hours. You could have
done that decades ago. It would be a trivial exercise in elementary physics.
As a first step, you could make a 6-hour video of the machine in operation,
which would largely convince most people.


     This is what I find really remarkable:  the fact that a number of
     presumably intelligent individuals claim an interest in searching and
     searching and searching and searching and searching for "an over-unity
     device" --- and when a technology DOES come along which DOES produce
     "Greater External Energy Output Than External Energy Input" . . . 

There is no such machine. If you had one, you would demonstrate it, and sell
it. Joe Champion cannot transmute base elements into gold either, or produce
platinum with peculiar isotopes. If he could do these things, he would. He
would sell the gold and send the platinum to be tested by the Japanese, and in
a few months he would have hundreds of millions of dollars. People who can
actually do such miraculous things, like Pons and Fleischmann or Patterson, DO
THEM, and they gain recognition and funding.


     . . . you can find the time to attack it and/or ridicule it and/or claim
     it's "nonsense" --- but you haven't the initiative to BUILD IT FOR
     YOURSELF.

That's absurd. When microcomputers were invented, I did not attempt to build
my own. I purchased one and used it for my own purposes. If you will sell me a
working magnetic machine, I will buy it. Of course you must demonstrate it to
me in advance, to my satisfaction.


     You know Jed, come to consider it, I have even more respect for that
     _PROVEN_ technically-incompetent, former patent examiner Donovan F.
     Duggan than you.

Technical competence has nothing to do with it. Anyone could recognize a
working machine at a glance.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 11:08:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA17782; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:15:59 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:15:59 -0800
Message-Id: <v02130501af5342ad33e6 [153.34.200.33]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:17:57 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Rising and falling heart shaped balloons
Resent-Message-ID: <"cItjD1.0.lL4.TfOBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5005
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I never did manage to build the Neuman version of the ballon machine but
>finally that Valentines day ballon has about died. For the most part these
>days it rests on the floor unable to rise. However my ten year old daughter
>seems to have invented perpetual motion. She places the ballon in a sunbeam.
>in a moment the ballon begins to rise toward the ceiling. As it drifts out of
>the sunbeam (perhaps 2 feet off the floor) it slows to a stop and begins to
>fall back to the floor. It never quite makes it back through the 2 foot high
>sunbeam to the floor and begins to rise again. It will do this until the cat,
>driven crazy by the dangling ribbon, attacks.
>
>We have talked about patenting the cat as an OU arresting invention.
>Biological
>patents are hot items these days. If anyone would like to invest they can send
>either money or cat food.
>
>Russ George
>
>ps Does anyone think we'll be sued by Neuman over the cat patent.

Dear Rus,

My only wonder is why you need the sunbeam to cause the balloon to rise ---
surely you have demonstrated a sufficient hot air output to enable it to
rise as high as necessary.  :-)

Biologically speaking, if the cat decides to have you nutered, you may rest
assurred that Donovan F. Duggan will be willing to provide the cat with a
patent for the process.

Evan Soule'


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 11:14:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA20350; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:31:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:31:17 -0800
Message-Id: <v02130503af5349add90b [153.34.202.183]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:33:07 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"CZtCl2.0.rz4.ptOBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5008
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>In a message dated 3/16/97 11:34:49 PM, you wrote:
>Evan,
>
>You said (to Jed Rothwell):
>
><<Joseph Newman has published a Wiring & Construction Diagram featuring one
>of the most recent applications of his technology.  HAVE AT IT!!!!!>>
>
>I would like to receive a copy, as we would consider building it.
>
>H. E. Puthoff, Ph.D.
>EarthTech Intern'l, Inc.
>4030 W. Braker Lane, Suite 300
>Austin, TX  78759-5329

Fair enough.  I'll send it to you.

Evan Soule'
josephnewman earthlink.net

P.S.
To anyone else:  if you wish this information, please send a SASE (2
stamps) to: Evan Soule', P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684.

And also:  if you wish to order a 75-minute VHS tape of back-to-back News
Broadcasts/Documentaries featuring Joseph Newman's work this tape may be
ordered by sending a $10 check/money order payable to Evan Soule', P.O. Box
57684, New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684.  This tape also features a
gentleman in Philadelphia who built his own Newman Motor/Generator and sent
us a video clip of the machine in operation.  [The $10 covers the cost of
the tape/the duplication/the packaging/the postage.]


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 11:33:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA22710; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:13:05 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:13:05 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <332D97D8.760C interlaced.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:13:28 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen.
References: <19970317171225.AAA17319 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"fg-GP2.0.mY5._UPBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5009
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
Horace said:

> >There must be a more subtle approach of some kind!
> >
> 
Frederick said:

> This is why I only do Thought Experiments, that way if any "Artifacts"
> crop up I can ignore them.  :-)
> 
> Regards,   Frederick

Curses upon you, Frederickstein!  You have created a MONSTER!

A lowly peasant from Ashtabula ------ Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 12:59:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA03330; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/00035EC7 xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: Russ George <rgeorge hooked.net>, Vortex-L <Vortex-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Rising and falling heart shaped balloons
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 12:38:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"iQz1G3.0.yp.kmQBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5010
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Russ	
Thats a beautiful piece about reality.
Thank you
Hank Scudder
 ----------
From: Russ George
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Rising and falling heart shaped balloons
Date: Monday, March 17, 1997 12:54AM


I never did manage to build the Neuman version of the ballon machine but
finally that Valentines day ballon has about died. For the most part
these
days it rests on the floor unable to rise. However my ten year old
daughter
seems to have invented perpetual motion. She places the ballon in a
sunbeam.
in a moment the ballon begins to rise toward the ceiling. As it drifts
out
of
the sunbeam (perhaps 2 feet off the floor) it slows to a stop and begins
to

fall back to the floor. It never quite makes it back through the 2 foot
high
sunbeam to the floor and begins to rise again. It will do this until the
cat,
driven crazy by the dangling ribbon, attacks.

We have talked about patenting the cat as an OU arresting invention.
Biological
patents are hot items these days. If anyone would like to invest they
can
send
either money or cat food.

Russ George

ps Does anyone think we'll be sued by Neuman over the cat patent.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 13:20:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05984; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:03:58 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:03:58 -0800 (PST)
Date: 17 Mar 97 14:41:25 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Chris & Susie
Message-ID: <970317194124_100433.1541_BHG11-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"_XkwZ.0.QT1.x6RBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5013
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scottie,

<just what is your relationship with Mr. Tinsley, Susie?>

Purely secretarial. I just take things down.

< British crop circles (Stonehenge)

Actually, the last one to appear there was probably made by Christopher
in Grumpy Old Git mode.  On the way back from the Fleischmanns' we
decided to visit.  He was so appalled at the inflated entry charge - and
the fact that you can no longer go right up to the stones - I think he
made a one-man crop circle by pacing round and round repeating "Just
who's f****** heritage is it, anyway?"

He only brightened a little when he realised just how many foreigners
were getting ripped off.

Susie

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 13:24:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08571; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:01:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:01:40 -0800
Message-ID: <332DB14A.6E4 interlaced.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:02:02 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: COMET NEWMAN-VORTEX RETURNS!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"wej9J2.0.r52.o4RBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5011
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I had hoped that the Newman-Vortex object visible now at any time of
the day was a comet from the Oort cloud with a period of, maybe, 2000
years.  However, it now appears to be a NEO (Near Earth Object) with
a high probability of impact at any time!

Under cover in Ashtabula, Frank Somebody Else

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 13:42:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08697; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:02:08 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:02:08 -0800
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130504af535dc2925a [153.34.202.183]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:03:48 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"Qyvyt1.0.k72.E5RBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5012
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>To: Vortex
>
>Evan Soule writes:
>
>     I really, personally, resent your statement: "This is nonsense." If you
>     calling me a liar --- just have the courage to say so directly.
>
>If I thought you were a liar I would never hesitate say so. I think you are
>deluded, and I am sure you know nothing about business. I repeat, hundreds of
>companies grabbed the original, unpatented IBM PC design. Companies like
>Compaq and Dell took it as quickly as they could, and made billions of dollars
>from it. Yet you claim that without a patent a business cannot flourish! And
>you say businesses never steal free ideas! To give another example, Window 95
>was based on the Macintosh interface, which in turn was based on Xerox PARC
>software. Microsoft, IBM, and Visi-On stole the idea from Apple, which stole
>it from Xerox, which got it from Engelbart, who invented it at SRI. Yet nobody
>alone the line, not Microsoft, IBM, Visi-On or Apple, ever paid a dime in
>royalties or got a single patent for it. Until recently you could not even get
>a patent for software. That has not kept Bill Gates from becoming the richest
>man in the world.

Dear Jed,

You write: "Yet you claim that without a patent a business cannot flourish!  And
you say businesses never steal free ideas!"

Please don't "put words in my mouth."  Will you please point out to me
where I wrote the above?  Your words and your attitude are typical of one
who is "hell bent" upon implicitly engaging and generating a divergent
volitional oscillation.  Let's try to nip this one in the bud, Jed.  I am
more aware of the abysmal lack of integrity on the part of many
corporations throughtout the world that you will apparently ever
understand.

Let's return to my original words:

"And the 'real world' (large corporations) has repeatedly stated to Joseph
Newman, 'Joe, we are extremely interested in your technology.  Please
contact us as soon as you receive your patent.'  I was a witness to several
of these 'real world' incidents."

My point, Jed, is that the above "real world" event did happen.  Joe was
told the above by such corporations.  What is in the little hearts of those
corporate executives --- "is it all honesty, motherhood, apple pie?  Or do
their hearts contain dark little cesspools of dishonesty and thievery?"

Frankly, my dear (sir), "I could give a damn." --- in this context.

I make no pretense to reading their minds.  But the net result is the same.

If you know of a corporation that would like to initiate a
commercialization contract (without having full patent patent protection)
--- FEEL FREE TO PASS THE INFORMATION ALONG!!!  Hail Mary!  Great!   :-)

Here's the telephone number for them to reach Joe:  (601) 947-7147.  I
suggest they call next Monday since he is away on a business meeting.


>
>Soule' suggests:
>
>     Yes, Jed, Build Your Own Prototype: Then you can independently test it
>     to your heart's content, experiment with it "before the cows are even
>     aware that they want to come home."  :-) . . . Joseph Newman has
>     published a Wiring & Construction Diagram featuring one of the most
>     recent applications of his technology.  HAVE AT IT!!!!!
>
>Out of the question. I am not capable or qualified, and I have absolutely no
>interest in doing that. You might as well demand that I fabricate my own
>computer chip. Why would I bother to copy a machine that already exists?!?
>There is no reason on earth why I should. If the machine is real you can
>demonstrate it to me at no cost, with little effort, in such a way that will
>convince me -- or any other rational person -- in a few hours. You could have
>done that decades ago. It would be a trivial exercise in elementary physics.
>As a first step, you could make a 6-hour video of the machine in operation,
>which would largely convince most people.

Jed, I really about had it with your _total_ and complete ignorance of the
history of this technology.  Joseph Newman really doesn't "owe you"
anything.  Re your video idea: been there, done that.  Don't get me wrong:
it is not your ignorance that I _really_ mind:  it is the attitude behind
your ignorance.  This is what I really and honestly find appalling.

Just a _few_ facts:

1) After he applied for his patent, Joseph Newman presented the patent
office with over a dozen legal Affidavits from scientists attesting to the
operability of the technology.  According to patent law, this should have
been sufficient.

2) He invited patent officials to come to Mississippi to test his
prototypes to their "heart's content."  They refused his offer.

3) He offered to pay all the expenses of patent officials to come to
Mississippi to test his prototypes to their "heart's content."  They
refused his offer.

4) He actually loaded an 800# prototype on a flatbed truck and hauled same
apr. 1,500 miles to Washington, D.C. to the patent office (accompanied by
Physicist Roger Hastings -- a Principal Physicist with Sperry-Univac at the
time and former Professor of Physics --- who had endorsed Joseph Newman's
technology).
When he arrived with the prototype at the patent office, patent officials
refused to even look at it --- let alone test it.  They told him to take
the model to the NBS where it would be tested and the results sent to the
PTO.

5) He then hauled the 800# prototype to Gaithersburg, Maryland to the NBS
offices.  He was told by NBS officials that they had no facilities to test
his prototype.  They refused to even look at it.  He returned to
Mississippi.

6) He was then told by the proven incompetent examiner Donovan F. Duggan,
"We will never give you a patent NO MATTER WHAT EVIDENCE YOU PRESENT."

7) He appealed Duggan's ruling.  He submitted still more Affidavits
attesting to the operability of the technology.

8) He was then told by a Panel of Patent Examiners, "We believe that your
invention works, but that your technical description is inadequate."

9) He appealed the ruling of the panel of patent examiners.  He once again
submitted still more Affidavits attesting to the operability of the
technology.

10) He was then told by a Board of Patent Examiners (the Appeal process):
"We believe your technical description is adequate, but that your invention
does not work."

11) He then filed suit in Federal Court against the Patent Office.

12) He submitted 30 Affidavits attesting to the operability of his technology.

13) He asked the Federal Judge to uphold patent law and order the PTO to
issue the patent.

14) The Federal Judge said no.  He said that he needed an technical expert
-- a Special Master to present an evaluation of the technology to the
Court.  Joseph Newman objected:  he said that he had 30 Affidavits in
support of the technology and the patent office had 0.  Joseph Newman was
overruled.

15) Joseph Newman nominated two nominees for Special Master.  The Patent
Office nominated three nominees for Special Master.  Both of Joseph
Newman's nominees were rejected by the Court.  One of the patent office's
nominees was accepted by the Court:  William Schuyler, Jr. -- the former
U.S. Commissioner of the Patent Office and a man with "superb technical
credentials" according to the Federal Judge.

16) The Special Master then issued his Report:  he stated that the evidence
was OVERWHELMING that the technology worked --- there was NO contradictory
factual evidence.  He stated the patent should immediately be issued to
Joseph Newman.

17) Without providing evidence as to why his own Special Master's Report
was "clearly erroneous" (which the Judge is required to do by the Federal
Code), the Judge simply declared that "he does not believe in the tooth
fairy" and he threw out the Report of his own Special Master.  [BTW, He
still charged Joseph Newman over $11,000 for the Report.  This was after
the Judge said that the reason he needed a Special Master was as a
technical consultant to the Court which would end up "saving Joseph Newman
money."  This did not happen.]

18) Later, the NBS (who had already publicly spoken against Joseph Newman's
technology) was ordered to test one of the prototypes IN SECRET, WITHOUT
JOSEPH NEWMAN HAVING ANY OF HIS OWN WITNESSES PRESENT, TAKING MANY MONTHS
FOR TESTING, THE PROTOTYPE COULD BE PERMANENTLY DESTROYED BY THE NBS, AND
THE RESULTS WOULD _ONLY_ BE PUBLICLY RELEASED IF THE JUDGE PERMITTED IT.

Joseph Newman objected to these "test conditions" and filed suit against
the Federal Judge with the Court of Appeals.

19) The Court of Appeals totally rebuked the Federal Judge and said that
the above "test conditions" were ridiculous.  They issued new instructions:
Joseph Newman & representatives could be present for all testing, the NBS
had 30 days to test, the prototype (evidence) could not be destroyed by the
NBS, and the results would be publicly released to all parties.

20) The prototype was turned over to the NBS.  For thirty (30) days the NBS
did nothing.  30 days came and went.  Joseph Newman instructed his attorney
on the morning of the 31st day to retrieve his property at the NBS.  His
attorney was met with armed U.S. marshalls who barred his entrance to the
NBS facility.  [We have this event on videotape.]  His attorney was
informed that he had one hour to be in the chambers of the Federal Judge or
a warrent would be issued for his arrest.

21) Joseph Newman's attorney was in those chambers within one hour.  The
attorney attempted to object to the NBS's confiscation of Joseph Newman's
property without due process and in total contempt of the ruling of the
Court of Appeals.  Result: the attorney was held in Contempt of Court and
fined.

22) What then followed was the fiasco "test" conducted by the NBS --- a
test which they incompetently performed.  A "bill" for this "test" was then
issued to Joseph Newman for over $100,000.00.

Jed, I've only given the _briefest_ summary of the events of injustice
which have surrounded this technology.

Joseph Newman has no interest in "hauling his machine" to you to test.  You
are free to build one yourself for your own use and experimentation.


>
>     This is what I find really remarkable:  the fact that a number of
>     presumably intelligent individuals claim an interest in searching and
>     searching and searching and searching and searching for "an over-unity
>     device" --- and when a technology DOES come along which DOES produce
>     "Greater External Energy Output Than External Energy Input" . . .
>
>There is no such machine. If you had one, you would demonstrate it, and sell
>it. Joe Champion cannot transmute base elements into gold either, or produce
>platinum with peculiar isotopes. If he could do these things, he would. He
>would sell the gold and send the platinum to be tested by the Japanese, and in
>a few months he would have hundreds of millions of dollars. People who can
>actually do such miraculous things, like Pons and Fleischmann or Patterson, DO
>THEM, and they gain recognition and funding.

There is such a machine.  In fact many different operational prototypes
have been constructed over the years.  And we are indeed working on
commercializing the technology.  If you want to deny its existence --- be
my guest.  For convenience sake, I will even be willing to supply a bucket
of sand for you to stick your head into, if you wish.

>
>     You know Jed, come to consider it, I have even more respect for that
>     _PROVEN_ technically-incompetent, former patent examiner Donovan F.
>     Duggan than you.
>
>Technical competence has nothing to do with it. Anyone could recognize a
>working machine at a glance.
>
>- Jed

Naive is not the word for your attitude, Jed.  Even delusional.  These
would be profound understatements.  And as far as my good buddy Donovan
Duggan is concerned, he wouldn't recognize his own feces if he was hauling
it around in his underwear. :-)

Gyroscopically yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 13:54:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08779; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:28:30 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:28:30 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130503af5373aaf687 [153.34.202.254]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:30:24 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: AND THE CLOUDS ARE UPON US!
Resent-Message-ID: <"vYTng2.0.292.yTRBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5014
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I had hoped that the Newman-Vortex object visible now at any time of
>the day was a comet from the Oort cloud with a period of, maybe, 2000
>years.  However, it now appears to be a NEO (Near Earth Object) with
>a high probability of impact at any time!
>
>Under cover in Ashtabula, Frank Somebody Else

Dear Frank Somebody Else,

The Newman-Vortex is normally visible in the late night sky facing towards
the magnetic North Pole.  However, it visibility is sometimes blurred by
the Clouds of Cremonini found in the direction of the Sceptic
Constellation.  It is hoped that the fuzzy (in)sight caused by the Clouds
will gradually clear.  Stay tuned for updates from Astronomy Central.  :-)

Looking through the telescope in New Orleans, Evan




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 14:39:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA16404; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:25:25 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:25:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen. 
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:24:11 +0000
Message-ID: <19970317222409.AAA16366 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"LKHP31.0.E04.HJSBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5015
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frank Stenger wrote:

>
>A lowley peasant from Ashtabula-------
>

I didn't know that there were Any peasants in Astabula.

I thought that they had all moved to Youngstown when they 
heard that there was no work there.

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 18:11:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA10714; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:51:59 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:51:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970318015203.00663ea0 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:52:03 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: RE:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"EayXR3.0.Kd2.-KVBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5016
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Henry J. Scudder wrote:

>>Thus the lower energy X-rays would be absorbed in the calorimeter and show
up as heat.<< 

No significant heat is generated from x-ray doses of the level required to
partially expose x-ray film.  It is orders of magnitude too low. Your
statement is qualitatively correct, and follows the original line of
thinking of some of those studying the effect.  But quantitatively, it
doesn't hold up.  For example, I did a calculation for one experiment and
found that the total x-ray energy released during an experiment was less
than 1e-5 Joule, corresponding to an average power of 1e-10 W.  This is
simply not a concern for calorimetry.  So this idea that excess heat is
carried away by photons is just barking up the wrong tree.

>>Some higher energy photons would get through if generated, but would
have show up on radiation meters, and I gather this is not the case.<<

Yes, that's correct. Radiation detectors such as CdTe are vastly more
sensitive than x-ray film, but fail to identify a plausible source of the
film exposure.  So it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that large amounts
of radiation are emitted by cold fusion cells.  Moreover, some experiments
have sought to locate x-ray detectors close to the cathode to avoid
attenuation from the electrolyte.  There are some possible small signals
detected, but nothing at all commensurate with x-ray film exposure, never
mind excess heat.  So it remains an enigma.

Yours truly,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 19:08:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA11855; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:28:01 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:28:01 -0800
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:27:08 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703180227.UAA09810 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: RE:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"pfnMe.0.9v2.lsVBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5017
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:52 AM 3/18/97 +0900, Elliot K wrote:
>of radiation are emitted by cold fusion cells.  Moreover, some experiments
>have sought to locate x-ray detectors close to the cathode to avoid
>attenuation from the electrolyte.  There are some possible small signals
>detected, but nothing at all commensurate with x-ray film exposure, never
>mind excess heat.  So it remains an enigma.

Elliot, pardon me for coming in late here.

In some cases the mysterious exposure of film in CF experiments,
particularly those instances where reacted cathodes were removed from cells
and placed close to the film, has been attributed to a reaction between the
hydrogen gas coming out of the cathode and the film.

Does this possibly apply to the cases you've been discussing?



Scott Little 
EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 19:49:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA18392; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:10:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:10:00 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970318031441.009c6824 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:14:41 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"8oqT6.0.DV4.5UWBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5018
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 07:53 AM 3/17/97 -1000, you wrote:
>Gary Hawkins wrote:
  
>   >  http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/images/newman.jpg

>I don't know if or how that balloon thing works, but the description of
>it, and the way it is described to bob up or down depending on whether
>or not electricity is flowing has nothing at all to do with the Edmund
>Scientific thermal balloon. Assuming, of course, that the description of
>the device and its behavior are accurate. 
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
>
>

>From what I saw, Newman turns the electricity on, the balloon goes up.  
He turns the electricity off, and it goes down, only very slowly, 
suspiciously in concert with heating effects like the solar "shuttle", 
pictured on that webpage above, or Russ's daughter's research and 
discoveries.
  
Such boulderdash claims along the lines of flying saucer technology, etc, 
by Newman, make the real fringe community look ridiculous.  He's outside 
the fringe of the fringe.  Perhaps some due claim to fame in that.

Gary Hawkins 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 21:27:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA29791; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:45:12 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:45:12 -0800
Message-ID: <332E27EE.139F microtronics.com.au>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:58:14 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rgeorge hooked.net
CC: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Cat Powered Anti-gravity and Free Energy System
References: <199703171651.IAA04901 mom.hooked.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"S_pC42.0.MH7.MtXBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5019
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Russ George wrote:
> 
> I never did manage to build the Neuman version of the ballon machine but
> finally that Valentines day ballon has about died. For the most part these
> days it rests on the floor unable to rise. However my ten year old daughter
> seems to have invented perpetual motion. She places the ballon in a sunbeam.
> in a moment the ballon begins to rise toward the ceiling. As it drifts out of
> the sunbeam (perhaps 2 feet off the floor) it slows to a stop and begins to
> fall back to the floor. It never quite makes it back through the 2 foot high
> sunbeam to the floor and begins to rise again. It will do this until the cat,
> driven crazy by the dangling ribbon, attacks.
> 
> We have talked about patenting the cat as an OU arresting invention. Biological
> patents are hot items these days. If anyone would like to invest they can send
> either money or cat food.
> 
> Russ George

Hi Russ,

My son suggested a anti-gravity and free energy system based on cat
power and buttered toast to me some time ago.  It seems to make sense,
but I can't get my children to agree to the use of the cat or my wife to
cleaning up the mess.


Goes something like this :

1) Buttered bread or toast always falls butter side down.

2) Cats always fall feet side down.


If we observe these two hard facts of our natural world, then the
following should work.

1) Tie buttered toast to cats back, butter side up.

2) Lift cat and butter toast assy about 1 mtr off floor.

3) Drop cat and butter toast assy. (Watch out for the cat's claws)

4) Observe that as cat & butter toast assy reaches approx 100-200mm from
floor, both will fight to reach the floor first and rotate, just above
the floor, at a high speed.

Would probably not be OU as the butter will eventually be flung of the
toast and the cat will get very dizzy.  But maybe for a short time,
energy could be drained off the system.  Only problem might be the cats
claws.

Anyone want to try?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 21:29:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA29189; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:00:53 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:00:53 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703180500.VAA29627 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:02:50 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: RE:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199703180227.UAA09810 natashya.eden.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"I2ST2.0._77.26YBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5020
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

> Date:          Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:27:08 -0600 (CST)
> To:            vortex-l eskimo.com
> From:          Scott Little <little eden.com>
> Subject:       RE:  Fleischmann, x-rays
> Reply-to:      vortex-l eskimo.com

> Elliot, pardon me for coming in late here.
> 
> In some cases the mysterious exposure of film in CF experiments,
> particularly those instances where reacted cathodes were removed from cells
> and placed close to the film, has been attributed to a reaction between the
> hydrogen gas coming out of the cathode and the film.
> 
> Does this possibly apply to the cases you've been discussing?

> Scott Little 

Scott,

While some people have attributed hydrogen as the cause of film fogging they 
never showed by any experimental evidence that such film fogging is generated 
in a reasonable simulation of an experiment where the x-ray film exposure was 
reported. 

Taking quick hip shots by claiming hypothetically possible explanations for 
reported results is neither honest skepticism nor honest science. We call it 
bullshit out west here. It falls upon the person proposing an alternative 
explanation to at least make a minimal demonstration that the proposed 
mechanism is functional under the conditions of the original experiment. Some 
of us in science seem to have forgotten that taking pot shots doesn't buy us 
admission to the game. It works really well in religion and politics where 
it is a well established custom but not in science.

Yes this requirement for effort makes it difficult to participate in the 
debate if one has to actually get off ones  butt and do something other than 
pronounce wild speculations. By the way I have attempted to expose polaroid 
x-ray film on many occasions with various pieces of Pd loaded by various 
methods electrochemical and otherwise. I have never observed any fogging of the 
film at all. Seems to me the hydrogen hypothesis is balderdash but so far all I 
have is a NULL set of experiments in fogging film with hydrogen. I've never 
even seen the protocol that supposedly accomplishes this.

Who was it that proposed such nonsense in the first place. This is like a 
proposal recently on s.p.f where some yahoo suggested that since he'd run an 
electrochemical experiment with a thin x-ray window and did not see x-rays he'd 
proven cold fusion was bunk. Of course he'd never taken the time to get 
some calorimetric data suggesting he had the P&F method replicated in 
the first place. That individual is astonishingly responsible for teaching our 
kids science and nuclear physics at a state university. Can you imagine we pay 
the guy who doesn't have any idea of the difference and importance of a NULL 
versus a Negative experiment to teach science. 

Russ George








From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:16:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA04251; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:38:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:38:55 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC331B.2C1B4710 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Magnetic Fields and Wires
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:31:41 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"ay3Iz2.0.L21.kfYBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5021
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Greg Watson said:

<snip>
>As a side comment, it would be interesting to investigate the
>characteristics in the first few nsec of current flow in a Bifilar
>coil. =20
>
>If we have a two turn coil and applied a very sharp rise time current
>pulse, we would find that before the electron energy flow had =
progressed
>to the second (opposing turn), the magnetic field generated in the =
first
>turn would induce a additive EMF in the second turn.  This additive EMF
>would assist current being driven even harder into the coil. =20
>In other words, in a Bifilar coil, initial current flow (in the first
>few nsec) would be even harder than that in a non-inductive circuit
>member.  This is a very different situation to a normal coil, where the
>current flow induces a opposing EMF and attempts to stop current flow.
>
>Is this effect the cause of strange stories of funny things happening
>with Bifilar coils?

Exactly my interest. I'd like to see the results of high-frequency and =
relatively high-energy pulsing of a bifilar coil.
Unfortunately my electronics experience is about 25 years rusty and so =
don't really know how to put together the right circuits to do that =
(still drawers full of discrete components from the 60's down in the =
basement at my parents' house, though :-). Can anybody provide a =
relatively simple circuit (or pointers to one) that could be used for =
this? I'd love to build it and do some tests.

Dan Quickert

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 22:44:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA06427; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703180620.WAA06389 mx2.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: claytor_t_n esa.lanl.gov
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:46:06 -0700
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Thomas N. Claytor" <claytor_t_n lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: Cryogenic beta detector
Resent-Message-ID: <"XvtF23.0.Ja1.YGZBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5022
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Elliot,
I'm on travel for a few days or I would look it up, but there are a number
of suppliers of PIN diodes that can respond directly  to the beta spectra
from tritium (ending at 18.6keV). Unfortunately, they don't do too well in
high vacuums (we have blow a couple up).  I think Amptek might make a
peltier cooled detector for vacuum use, but it has a 1 mil Be window.
Perhaps the simplest and easiest solution is to lay the sample in the bottom
of a scintillator vial and count it in a Packard or equivalent after the
experiment, if possible.  If you decide to use a PIN it should be cooled or
at least the temperature regulated to less than a degree because the
background is very temperature dependent.

At 11:05 AM 3/17/97 +0900, you wrote:
>        Can anyone put me in touch with a reliable source for low-level beta
>spectral measurements?  I'm hoping to find someone with an Ortec cryogenic
>silicon detector (or equivalent) able to obtain measurements in the range of
>~40 keV.  Our own charged particle detectors are not cryogenically cooled
>and are not able to make measurments in this energy range.
>        
>Thanks in advance,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo
>
>
Thomas N. Claytor
Los Alamos National Laboratory
ESA-MT, MS C914
Los Alamos NM, 87545
505-667-6216 voice
505-665-7176 fax

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:11:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA10449 for billb@eskimo.com; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:11:42 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:11:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Envelope-From: jrtooker freenet.calgary.ab.ca  Mon Mar 17 23:11:29 1997
Received: from freenet.calgary.ab.ca (root srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca [198.161.243.11]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA10355; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:11:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca(198.161.243.11) by srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca via smap (V1.3)
	id ZZ06084; Tue Mar 18 00:07:17 1997
Old-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:07:16 -0700 (MST)
From: "John R. Tooker" <jrtooker freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
To: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Cc: rgeorge hooked.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cat Powered Anti-gravity and Free Energy System
In-Reply-To: <332E27EE.139F microtronics.com.au>
Message-Id: <Pine.A32.3.93.970318000522.63100A-100000 srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Organization: Calgary Free-Net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: O
X-Status: 


> toast and the cat will get very dizzy.  But maybe for a short time,
> energy could be drained off the system.  Only problem might be the cats
> claws.
> 
> Anyone want to try?
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
> Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
>                                           61 18 833 461  Mobile
I would, only I *don't* think any of my cats would appreciate it. <G>
Besides, I'd have to live with them afterwards, and I'm worried about what
they'd pull to get back at me..... :)
John

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:15:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA10544; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:43:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:43:10 -0800
Message-Id: <v02130500af53f6006895 [153.34.203.209]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 01:45:17 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"CpK8-2.0.ga2.ybZBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5023
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>At 07:53 AM 3/17/97 -1000, you wrote:
>>Gary Hawkins wrote:
>
>>   >  http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/images/newman.jpg
>
>>I don't know if or how that balloon thing works, but the description of
>>it, and the way it is described to bob up or down depending on whether
>>or not electricity is flowing has nothing at all to do with the Edmund
>>Scientific thermal balloon. Assuming, of course, that the description of
>>the device and its behavior are accurate.
>>
>>- Rick Monteverde
>>Honolulu, HI
>>
>
>>From what I saw, Newman turns the electricity on, the balloon goes up.
>He turns the electricity off, and it goes down, only very slowly,
>suspiciously in concert with heating effects like the solar "shuttle",
>pictured on that webpage above, or Russ's daughter's research and
>discoveries.
>
>Such boulderdash claims along the lines of flying saucer technology, etc,
>by Newman, make the real fringe community look ridiculous.  He's outside
>the fringe of the fringe.  Perhaps some due claim to fame in that.
>
>Gary Hawkins
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
>http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
>------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Gary,

If Joe is 'outside the fringe of the fringe' then you're far beyond "the
jacket of rationality."  You appear to have a willingness to create your
own "mental image" of a balloon experiment -- which is unrelated to Joseph
Newman's actual experiment --- and then you proceed to attack your own
"mental image" claiming that it can't possibly work and that Joe is
"outside the fringe of the fringe", etc. I don't know what your smoking
these days, but you may wish to bring it down to the next Mardi Gras ---
should be quite a hit!  :-)

With balderdash in mind,

I remain, sincerely yours,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:18:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA11983; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:54:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:54:40 -0800
Message-ID: <332E3C11.5980 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 20:54:13 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: The Patent
References: <2.2.32.19970318031441.009c6824 mail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"A4XIR.0.5x2.kmZBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5024
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Gary -

   >  From what I saw, Newman turns the electricity on,
   >  the balloon goes up.  He turns the electricity off,
   >  and it goes down, only very slowly, suspiciously in
   >  concert with heating effects like the solar
   >  "shuttle", pictured on that webpage above, or
   >  Russ's daughter's research and discoveries.

Well, you were there and I wasn't. But it sounds like a bit of a leap
to  assume that simple heating does it in lieu of actual examination of
the evidence - especially when the current in the wires is claimed to be
very small. I'm in no position to argue convincingly that your
explanation is *not* the cause of its operation. I'm skeptical, but
without seeing and examining it for myself, or reading of a duplication
and measurements by someone trusted to be competent at such things, I
have to say for me its inconclusive.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:24:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA12283; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:57:50 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:57:50 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC3326.31193280 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'vortex-l eskimo.com'"
	 <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: rotating magnetic field
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 22:54:26 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"B8hrn2.0.r_2.ipZBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5025
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field, =
without moving parts. One pole would be fixed at the center, and the =
other would move radially - as if you had a bar magnet on a pivot, but =
without the mechanical motion. Ideally it would be a smooth rotation, =
not stepped, and eventually would like to be able to rotate it extremely =
fast.

Why? Why not? <g> Actually at this point all I have is some vague =
conceptual intuitive sense that such a critter could be useful in energy =
and gravity experiments.

Any ideas?

Dan Quickert

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 00:32:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA16078; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:48:13 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:48:13 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970318075259.009efed8 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:52:59 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"jTdou1.0.8x3.yYaBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5026
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Dear Gary,
>
>If Joe is 'outside the fringe of the fringe' then you're far beyond "the
>jacket of rationality."  You appear to have a willingness to create your
>own "mental image" of a balloon experiment -- which is unrelated to Joseph
>Newman's actual experiment --- and then you proceed to attack your own
>"mental image" claiming that it can't possibly work and that Joe is
>"outside the fringe of the fringe", etc. 

Eh-hem.  I SAW it.  There is nothing elaborate about it.  Wire around 
a balloon, set with its own weight balanced out, and DC through the wire.

Duh.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 00:35:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA13591; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:13:18 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:13:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530501af53dbbcfb7d [199.237.131.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:16:25 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: COMET NEWMAN-VORTEX RETURNS!
Resent-Message-ID: <"yX94Y1.0.FK3.SwaBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5028
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>I had hoped that the Newman-Vortex object visible now at any time of
>the day was a comet from the Oort cloud with a period of, maybe, 2000
>years.  However, it now appears to be a NEO (Near Earth Object) with
>a high probability of impact at any time!
>
>Under cover in Ashtabula, Frank Somebody Else

Hmmm, now, is that a joke or not?


Oh ... I get it!  Impact indeed!  8^)

Slow and sometimes slower, Horace


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 00:51:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA18072; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:12:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 00:12:36 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530500af53db2cd98c [199.237.131.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:15:45 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Arcs and Sparks in Hydrogen.
Resent-Message-ID: <"-j6GT.0.IQ4.ovaBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5027
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 2:13 PM 3/17/97, Francis J. Stenger wrote:
>Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>>
>Horace said:
>
>> >There must be a more subtle approach of some kind!
>> >
>>
>Frederick said:
>
>> This is why I only do Thought Experiments, that way if any "Artifacts"
>> crop up I can ignore them.  :-)
>>
>> Regards,   Frederick
>
>Curses upon you, Frederickstein!  You have created a MONSTER!
>
>A lowly peasant from Ashtabula ------ Frank Stenger

Gee, and here I just thought it was all just a big joke.  8^)


Curious as to why there is an angry mob gathering outside,

Horace


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 03:21:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA28923; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 03:11:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 03:11:14 -0800
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130500af5434742a63 [153.34.203.238]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:13:15 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: O/F O/U Device
Resent-Message-ID: <"pUyD3.0.c37.FXdBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5029
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Fred Epps wrote:
>
> Hi biological avante-garde:
>
> OF COURSE I have something to say about the proposed oleo-feline device.
> Schlumlicker (1) did a similar experiment in a rare paper published in 1907
> in the Journal of Margarine Studies. He used a wombat instead of a cat and

comic snip--

> prevention of cruelty to animals around?  All these questions need to be
> answered IN DETAIL befrore even the most preliminary experiment is attempted.
>                                greasily, Fred
>
> 1) "A New Rotational Effect In Mammal-Margarine Systems" by E.P. Schlumlicker
> Journal Of Margarine Studies, V.4, N.3, p.107 (1907)


Re: Oleo/Feline O/U Device ---

Dear Fred:

I've heard of the landmark work of E.P. Schlumlicker in 1907.  You may be
interested in the follow-up work of Dr. Von Schlick relative to Dr.
Schlumlicker:

Dr. Ludwig Von Schlick at the University of Vienna sau Sage, published a
seminal paper years ago [1929] in which he had a modified experiment
regarding a cat and buttered toast.  Seems that he coated a cat's back with
honey and stuck the toast firmly upon its back.  In an attempt to overcome
entropic losses as the Cat/Toast Combo [C/TC] rotated in mid-air, he had
inserted series of small, but powerful, permanent magnets in the posterior
of the cat and enclosed the Cat/Toast Combo in a thin, carefully-carved
hollow wooden sphere upon which a conductor coil was meticulously wound.
At a precisely timed moment the C/TC was released from a pre-designed
harness inside the sphere.  As the C/TC began to rotate, electrical output
was generated.

Much to his surprise, Dr. Schlick discovered that once the rotation of the
system reached a certain spin velocity, the C/TC mass tended to remain in
motion regardless of whether the cat died and/or the buttered toast finally
disintegrated and was flung off the cat's back.  Dr. Schlick published
claims of "over-unity" via the Vienna sau Sage Press, but they were never
corroborated due to the unexpected demise of Professor Von Schlick when he
choked to death on a piece of Weiner Snitzel during the Octoberfest of
1929.  [Note: In an attempt to avoid the paper inflations plaguing Austria,
he had apparently invested heavily in the U.S. Stock market and was
concerned about his assets.  This had led to a behavior of 'reckless
abandon' ultimately traceable to his relations with his mother -- according
to his personal friend, a Dr. Freud of Vienna.]

As a result, a critical secret died with Professor Von Schlick --- one that
without which, the successful replication of the parameters of the test are
impossible:  he failed to leave any record of how he managed to
successfully apply the permanent magnets.

Source: "The Published Anals of C/TC Research", Vol. XXVII, No. 18, pgs.
256-289, November, 1929, University of Vienna sau Sage Press, Austria.

Evan


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 03:34:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA28939; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 03:11:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 03:11:17 -0800
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130501af54352d55b1 [153.34.203.238]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:13:18 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"U1m-m.0.447.JXdBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5030
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>>Dear Gary,
>>
>>If Joe is 'outside the fringe of the fringe' then you're far beyond "the
>>jacket of rationality."  You appear to have a willingness to create your
>>own "mental image" of a balloon experiment -- which is unrelated to Joseph
>>Newman's actual experiment --- and then you proceed to attack your own
>>"mental image" claiming that it can't possibly work and that Joe is
>>"outside the fringe of the fringe", etc.
>
>Eh-hem.  I SAW it.  There is nothing elaborate about it.  Wire around
>a balloon, set with its own weight balanced out, and DC through the wire.
>
>Duh.

As I said before, it is evident that you were smoking something which would
go over quite well at Mardi Gras!  And as stated before, HIGH current was
_not_ employed since, as such, it _would_ tend to heat the helium.

Hello?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 05:07:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA24403; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:52:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:52:29 -0800 (PST)
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:51:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970318075146_511367728 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
cc: V2058A vm.temple.edu, 76570.2270@compuserve.com
Subject: Dr. Nieper at Temple University
Resent-Message-ID: <"RCILt3.0.Dz5.B0fBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5031
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dr. Nieper spoke at a colloquium at Temple University today on the topic
"Conversions of Vacuum Field Energy: Its Significance for Medicne, Medical
Therapy, Energy Technology and the Forthcoming Cnetury". Dr. Nieper has
impressive credentials in medicne, with an extensive awareness of the
alternative energy field. His talk was a wide-ranging survey of his and
other's work. 

Much of the talk was devoted ot a review of some of his developments in
biochemistry, with some emphasis on the electrical properties of the cell
membrane as essenstial to health. He emphasized the aspect of an organism as
an energetic machine and the presence of the pervading vaccum energy between
the elementary particles of atomic and chemical structure. 

He reviewed a number of o/u machines and processes and has a paperback book
which has a good listing of energy machines with many illustrations, plus his
work on biology. He showed a videotape of the Swiss ML converter in
operation, which was a segment of a longer documentary about the community
which developed it. The machine is very well built, with exemplary
craftsmanship. In general configuration, it resembles a Wimshurst machine. It
was said to develop 3-4 Kw, depending on humidity. At one point a large light
bulb, apparently of a few hundred watts rating, was shown connected to the
terminals and lighting to near full brightness; sparks of about 1/4 inch were
drawn just before contact, indicating the presence of high voltage. The bulb
was held by hand with one contact touching one of the machine's output
terminals; a clip lead apparently connected to the other terminal was brought
to the second termianl of the bulb, but the full length of this lead was not
visible in the tape; a loose section hung below a table defining the lower
edge of the field of view. 

A frontal view of the apparatus was shown, with close-ups of many details,
and one side but no back views. Once started by hand, the machine runs
indefinitely, producing DC current. In the discussion period, I asked Dr.
Nieper if he had seen the machine himself in sufficient detail that he could
state that the counter-rotating discs were not powered by an external source.
He emphatically affirmed the he had seen the machine, and there was no motor
running the discs. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 05:47:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA27054; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 05:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 05:34:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 08:33:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970318083332_772339524 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Miley at Wright-Patterson AFB?
Resent-Message-ID: <"0ai501.0.bc6.HdfBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5032
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frank,

Congratulations on your invitation to speak at NASA/Lewis.

On February 2, you posted that Miley was expected to speak at
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base within a month, and that you might be able to
get a Vortexian in the area an invitation to attend.

John Schnurer responded the same day with a post saying that he regularly
visits Wright-Patterson.

Did anything come of this?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 06:03:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA28279; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 05:53:28 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 05:53:28 -0800 (PST)
Date: 18 Mar 97 08:51:19 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Autoradiographs
Message-ID: <970318135118_72240.1256_EHB73-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"xqTOj.0.gv6.JvfBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5033
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Scott Little writes:

     In some cases the mysterious exposure of film in CF experiments,
     particularly those instances where reacted cathodes were removed from
     cells and placed close to the film, has been attributed to a reaction
     between the hydrogen gas coming out of the cathode and the film.

Attributed by who, in which cases? I have heard these vague claims before, but
I do not know of any actual cases where this might have occurred. The
autoradiograph experiments at SRI, BARC and elsewhere have included elaborate
precautions to prevent this, with blanks, plastic separators, and so on.

Incidentally, the autoradiograph shown in I.E. #11, p. 65 did not have the
caption I intended for it. It was supposed to say the same thing as the EPRI
publication I lifted it from:

Figure 3-10 Autoradiograph of flow calorimeter, pressurized cell P2 electrode,
after 12-day exposure; shown at 4x and 50x magnification (markings in
centimeters)

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 06:09:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA09473; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 05:59:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 05:59:48 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:59:07 +0000
Message-ID: <19970318135905.AAA17953 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"yJyzC.0.iJ2.I_fBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5034
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:52 AM 3/18/97 +0000, Elliot Kennel wrote: 
>
>No significant heat is generated from x-ray doses of the level required to
>partially expose x-ray film.  It is orders of magnitude too low. Your
>statement is qualitatively correct, and follows the original line of
>thinking of some of those studying the effect.  But quantitatively, it
>doesn't hold up.  For example, I did a calculation for one experiment and
>found that the total x-ray energy released during an experiment was less
>than 1e-5 Joule, corresponding to an average power of 1e-10 W.  This is
>simply not a concern for calorimetry.  So this idea that excess heat is
>carried away by photons is just barking up the wrong tree.
>
>Yes, that's correct. Radiation detectors such as CdTe are vastly more
>sensitive than x-ray film, but fail to identify a plausible source of the
>film exposure.  So it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that large amounts
>of radiation are emitted by cold fusion cells.  Moreover, some experiments
>have sought to locate x-ray detectors close to the cathode to avoid
>attenuation from the electrolyte.  There are some possible small signals
>detected, but nothing at all commensurate with x-ray film exposure, never
>mind excess heat.  So it remains an enigma.
>
>Yours truly,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo
>
I ran some calculations on the energy loss of the proposed
"light electrons" with mass Me/137 and Me/137^2 at high 
relativistic values. The momentum loss compared to a regular
electron at relativistic energies is very high.

Might this explain collisional heat sans the bremsstrahlung
radiation that you would get with regular "beta" interaction?

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 07:17:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA03919; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:05:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:05:13 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <332EAF44.31F8 interlaced.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:05:40 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
References: <01BC3326.31193280 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"yJ82f1.0.8z.eygBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5035
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field, without moving parts. One pole would be fixed at the center, and the other would move radially - as if you had a bar magnet on a pivot,

Dan, what you describe sounds a lot like the stator of a poly-phase
induction motor!  Not exactly, because in, say, a 3-phase, 2 pole motor
the poles are on the opposite sides of the cylindrical stator cavity.
However, the magnetic flux vector does rotate around the axis line of
the motor at 2/P times 3600 RPM, where P is the number of motor poles.

If you energize a 3-phase stator with no rotor inside, you can toss a
steel ball into the cavity and watch as it is carried around the cavity
by the rotating field.  Motor repairmen sometimes use this trick to
check if they have the phases correctly connected for the desired
rotation direction.

I suggest you check out a basic 3-phase motor reference to learn the
basic ideas.  To go above 3600 RPM you would need a high-frequency
3-phase oscillator with good sinusoidal wave form.  If you want to hold
one pole on the axis I think it could be done, but I'm not sure.

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 07:39:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA06763; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:26:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:26:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703181526.KAA02754 mail.enter.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chronos mailman.enter.net>
From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos enter.net>
Organization: Applied Science Associates
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:00:08 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Report on Nieper at Temple
Reply-to: chronos enter.net
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"H_6Vs.0.Wf1.tGhBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5036
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Vortexians,

Here is my summary of the lecture yesterday by Hans Nieper, at the
Center for Frontier Sciences at Temple University.


Nieper is a practicing Medical Doctor in Germany, trained in virology,
and was president of the German Society of Oncology.  He's also a
member of American scientific groups including AAAS and NY. Acad. Sci.
 He mentioned having "over 300 papers and articles published," but I'm
not clear how much of this is professional or peer-reviewed work,
versus popular press reports.

The first 2/3 of his 90-minute talk covered his development of cancer
treatments based on compounds derived from species with natural
cancer-resistance.  This work seems solidly based on actual clinical
experience with many patients and doctors. This seems like a promising
line of medical research -- at least to a non-expert in medicine like
me.

The other 1/3 of his talk dealt with vacuum-field energy. This
consisted of general and rather dated information that is probably 
already known to most Vortexians and/or Infinite Energy readers.  No 
actual test data or engineering details of o/u devices were 
presented.

The LINK between medicine and vacuum-field energy, in Nieper's view,
is that a *subtle information-field* is present in living organisms,
and disruption of this field causes degenerative diseases such as
cancer.  This subtle information-field is also operative in certain
over-unity devices, but details on exactly HOW were not mentioned.

Nieper says that WATER is strongly influenced by this subtle
information-field, which explains its central role in both living
systems and in certain anomalous-energy effects -- here Nieper
mentioned sonoluminescence (citing Julian Schwinger's paper "Casimir
Light: The Source" in Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci.), water-splitting
(electrolysis) experiments, and attempts to develop "burnable water"
(eg work by a Dr. Antonov in Kiev).

Nieper showed a slide of a water molecule credited to "Stanley Meyer
(C) 1981." I didn't hear him mention Meyer by name, but he referred to
an electrolysis researcher in Cleveland whose work was "tested by
Lewis NASA," and who "may have spoken too loudly and was too
optimistic."  

Nieper left for the airport immediately after the lecture, so I
couldn't ask him Norman Horwood's question about who at NASA-Lewis did
this testing and what were their exact results.

Nieper played excerpts from a videotape showing the
"Thesta-Distatica" machines (a.k.a. Swiss ML converter) built by 
the Methernitha group led by Paul Baumann. Two or more different 
models of the machine were shown. The tape was largely devoid of 
technical information, but it did show voltmeters connected to the 
device reading 275 VDC (in one case) and 550 VDC in another.

The Thesta machine itself is beautiful. It looks like a cross between
a 1940's Wurlitzer jukebox and a Wimshurst generator.  



A list of Nieper's publications (and reprints/photocopies) is
available from:

A. Keith Brewer International Science Library
325 N. Central Ave.
Richland Center, WI  53581
Phone: 608-647-6513
Fax: 608-647-6797

If I can obtain a copy of this list, I'll post it on the website of
the Center for Frontier Sciences in a week or two, at URL:

http://www.temple.edu/cfs




Best regards, 
Bob Flower

=======================================================
Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates
Quality Control Engineering
Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer
=======================================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 07:43:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA19661; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:31:34 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:31:34 -0800
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:31:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703181531.KAA25056 spectre.mitre.org>
To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
CC: rgeorge hooked.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <332E27EE.139F microtronics.com.au> (message from Greg Watson on Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:58:14 +0930)
Subject: Re: Cat Powered Anti-gravity and Free Energy System
Resent-Message-ID: <"3FwLW3.0.7p4.LLhBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5037
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   Greg Watson (gwatson microtronics.com.au) said:

  > 1) Tie buttered toast to cats back, butter side up.

  > 2) Lift cat and butter toast assy about 1 mtr off floor.

  > 3) Drop cat and butter toast assy. (Watch out for the cat's claws)

  > 4) Observe that as cat & butter toast assy reaches approx 100-200mm from
  > floor, both will fight to reach the floor first and rotate, just above
  > the floor, at a high speed.

  This will not work.  The toast tied to the cat's back is too far
from the floor to effectively prevent the cat from landing.  You have
to tie the toast to the cat's feet, butter side up, one slice per
foot.

  > Anyone want to try?

   I never mananged to get toast on all four feet at once, even when
wearing a canvass jacket, gloves and a fencing mask.  But inadvertent
partial tests did show a repulsion effect between the toast-equipped
foot or feet and the floor.  Interestingly the repulsion effect only
works with a floor, the cat had no trouble placing the toast equipped
feet against walls, chairs, curtains, and me.  The experiment was
discontinued when the cat clawed through the cuff of my blue jeans and
started working on my boot.

   Maybe someone could try the complete experiment with a declawed
cat. ;-)

					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 07:52:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA08510; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:39:56 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703181539.JAA03457 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"OWnYd.0.q42.TThBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5038
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:51 3/18/97 EST, Jed wrote about H gas exposing fim:

>Attributed by who, in which cases? I have heard these vague claims before, but
>I do not know of any actual cases where this might have occurred. 

I'll look up the reference and report back, Jed.  It was something I
heard/read 2 years ago.

Also, in response to my:

>>> Does this possibly apply to the cases you've been discussing?

Russ George wrote:

>Taking quick hip shots by claiming hypothetically possible explanations for 
>reported results is neither honest skepticism nor honest science. We call it 
>bullshit out west here.

We call it "rational discussion" here in Texas.






From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 09:31:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA19419; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:19:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:19:26 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970318172403.009ffc20 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:24:03 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
Resent-Message-ID: <"Wf7vA.0.Jl4.SwiBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5040
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field, without moving parts.

>Any ideas?
>
>Dan Quickert
>
>

As a starting point, you might consider taking the rotor out of 
a three phase AC motor, and see what the field does, or even a 
normal brushless AC motor for that matter.  
Then consider half-wave rectification.

I believe you can get some three phase effects from old synchro-
motors.  Drive one with a variable speed DC motor, such as--
a hand drill.

Also, you might consider taking apart an old hard drive.  
Some of them have many coils around the perifery, radial axis, 
where those coils could be driven one after another to 
move a magnetic field around the circle.

Gary Hawkins 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 09:32:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA19181; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703181716.JAA15576 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:19:08 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Autoradiographs
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199703181539.JAA03457 natashya.eden.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"8P78G3.0.dh4.KuiBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5039
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I received a response on this from someone who had gone one step further and 
placed a piece of x-ray film in a vessel with pressureized hydrogen for a week. 
NO EXPOSURE.

This just goes to show how effective well placed bullshit can be. This 
ridiculous idea of exposing x-ray film with hydrogen from the Pd has been 
around for a long time. It was complete bullshit when first stated, bullshit 
when the critics of cold fusion kept parroting it, and its' still bullshit. 
Never-the-less here it is again. I'd nominate this for OU bullshit now if we 
can only find a way of harnessing the persistence it has in the form of energy 
we home free. Perhaps placing bullshit in a ballon wrapped with wire will do 
the trick.

Opps someone thought of that already. 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 09:42:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA20329; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:29:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:29:22 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:28:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970318122833_1452107624 emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Miley at Wright-Patterson AFB?
Resent-Message-ID: <"nOYOZ.0.Xz4.m3jBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5041
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I don't know you will have to ask John Schnurer.  Miley is to speak at the
Marshall Space Flight Center on Fusion propulsion on 3/25/97.  During that
visit he will meet with Dr. David Noever and view the ongoing Tempere
Experiments.  Miley tried to get me in the door to but I have the feeling
that Noever doesn't want me there.  I will not press the issue and will stay
home.  I sure would like a picture for my book on a disk.  Maybe I will get
to go at a later date.

Frank Z

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 10:10:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA22172; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:52:30 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:52:30 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC3382.02CD8640 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'freenrg-l eskimo.com'"
	 <freenrg-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: rotating magnetic field
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:51:52 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC3382.02CF0CE0"
Resent-Message-ID: <"YoJ0y.0.GQ5.PPjBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5042
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3382.02CF0CE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for all the suggestions. *But* :-) they're all variations on the =
theme of
put-lots-of-coils-in-a-circle-and-pulse-them, which I had already =
thought of. I'm looking for something a bit more elegant, if I may be so =
picky. Could be we have to think outside the linear coilform for this =
one. Could there be a Hamel-type wobble in there? It may have to sit on =
the back burner for a while and simmer.

Dan Quickert
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3382.02CF0CE0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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=

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3382.02CF0CE0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 11:06:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA27034; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:47:01 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:47:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703181241.ZM10435 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 12:41:36 -0600
In-Reply-To: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
        "Re: Autoradiographs" (Mar 18, 11:20am)
References: <199703181716.JAA15576 mom.hooked.net>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Autoradiographs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"IL5Pl1.0.Kc6.ZCkBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5043
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mar 18, 11:20am, Russ George wrote:

> This just goes to show how effective well placed bullshit can be. This
> ridiculous idea of exposing x-ray film with hydrogen from the Pd has been
> around for a long time. It was complete bullshit when first stated, bullshit
> when the critics of cold fusion kept parroting it, and its' still bullshit.
> Never-the-less here it is again. I'd nominate this for OU bullshit now if we
> can only find a way of harnessing the persistence it has in the form of
energy
> we home free. Perhaps placing bullshit in a ballon wrapped with wire will do
> the trick.
>
> Opps someone thought of that already.


......Sooo, you're saying don't agree with the theory?


-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 11:09:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA27866; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:53:25 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:53:25 -0800 (PST)
Date: 18 Mar 97 13:36:53 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Falling buttered bread in Sci. Am.
Message-ID: <970318183652_72240.1256_EHB98-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"eP_2u1.0.Kp6.aIkBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5044
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

The subject of falling buttered bread has come up here. This is a marvelous
article about this in the April 1997 issue of Scientific American, p. 88, "The
Science of Murphy's Law." I tested a falling paperback book as described in
the article, and I found it hit the floor face down ten times out of ten. The
author convincingly shows that the butter-down landing is due to gravity,
surface friction at the edge of the plate, and the height of the table.
Aerodynamic effects and the butter surface play no role. He further links the
phenomenon to some fundamental constants of the universe. His conclusion: "It
seems that toast tends to land butter-side down because the universe is
designed that way."

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 11:38:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA00133; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:21:40 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:21:40 -0800 (PST)
Date: 18 Mar 97 14:18:43 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Autoradiographs and false positives
Message-ID: <970318191842_72240.1256_EHB126-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"tAwj22.0.-1.0jkBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5046
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Scott writes:

     I'll look up the reference and report back, Jed.  It was something I
     heard/read 2 years ago.

I expect you will find that McKubre, Srinivasan and others who have done
autoradiographs worried about the possibility that hydrogen, water, or
something else in the metal is causing false positives, so they took steps to
prove that does not happen. Srinivasan, for example, used CCDs instead of
film. I have seen cases where a CF scientist discusses some potential problem
and shows how it is prevented, but only the first half of the discussion
remains in people's minds. For example, I once reported that in a particular
boil-off experiment Fleischmann measured the temperature only once every 5
minutes, but in other runs he measured it far more frequently, using an
oscilloscope in extreme cases. Fleischmann followed up in one of his lectures
by showing the oscilloscope trace. Unfortunately, the first part of my
statement was ripped out of context, and forever after it has been said on
s.p.f. that Pons and Fleischmann only measure temperature every five minutes!
These absurd ideas take on a life of their own. It reminds me of the
ahistorical claim that the people who opposed Columbus thought the world is
flat. The idea was fabricated out of whole cloth by Washington Irving in 1828.
See J. Russell, "Inventing the Flat Earth" (Praeger, 1991).

Russ George overreacts somewhat in writing:

     This ridiculous idea of exposing x-ray film with hydrogen from the Pd
     has been around for a long time. It was complete bullshit when first
     stated, bullshit when the critics of cold fusion kept parroting it, and
     its' still bullshit.

I think it was a plausible concern when first stated. It has been repeatedly
proved false, so its continued survival is, as Russ says, bullshit.

Let me add one more thing about. It is possible -- conceivable anyway -- that
some autoradiograph results *are* caused by hydrogen, or some other artifact.
Russ & I have not heard about anything like that; in every case we know of,
careful tests were done to ensure that is not the case. But we cannot know
everything, so maybe there are some false positives. However, they make no
difference. Just because *some people, somewhere* get false positive
autoradiographs, or false excess heat or transmutations, that does not prove
that SRI, BARC and all the others are also false positives. For that matter,
the false negatives at Harwell, MIT and Cal Tech do not prove that all other
negative experiments really were positive. I doubt that NEDO got heat but
they screwed up their analysis the way Harwell and Cal Tech did! Usually,
negative really is negative, and positive really is positive. So even if
Scott does come up with a genuine example of hydrogen causing film exposure,
that has no bearing on BARC's CCD detection of x-rays or SRI's film exposure.
It only means you have to be careful when you do these experiments. No matter
what he finds, Scott has no rational reason to doubt that some cathodes
become radioactive after they produce the CF effect. After you get enough
"quality positives" you can no longer doubt the thing. Similarly, when Barry
Merriman claims there have been no demonstration experiments and no
independent replications of Fleischmann, he does not have a leg to stand on.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 11:44:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA15696; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:16:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:16:03 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re:Autoradiographs
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:15:22 +0000
Message-ID: <19970318191520.AAA1347 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"r_HYi.0.7r3.ndkBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5045
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Just to make things interesting and so I can finish my sandcastle
before a big wave washes it away, I suggest the following experiment.

Immerse an x-ray film in distlled de-ionized water between a pair 
of metal plates with less than a volt potential between them.

Repeat until you are convinced that this is a worthless experiment. <g>

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 13:40:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA12430; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332F0702.42877E5C math.ucla.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:20:02 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Autoradiographs and false positives
References: <970318191842_72240.1256_EHB126-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ryBUE.0.423.ESmBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5047
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 
> Similarly, when Barry
> Merriman claims there have been no demonstration experiments and no
> independent replications of Fleischmann, he does not have a leg to stand on.
> 

That is not exactly what I said. What I said is more like
I want to see such experiments. I'll take a look at the 
french AEC stuff as soon as I get a chance---but is that a replication
of more recent P&F stuff, or the original P&F stuff? And
what ever happened to their demo hot water heater from 7 years
ago (which presumably would have worked just fine as a 
scientific replicable demonstration). Why did it take supposedly
extraordinary effort to replicate on the one hand, while on the
other P&F can make hot water heaters circa 1990? Makes
no sense to me.



-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 13:55:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA14182; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:36:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:36:42 -0800 (PST)
Date: 18 Mar 97 16:34:35 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: NEDO bites the dust?
Message-ID: <970318213434_72240.1256_EHB86-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"4jTv_3.0.ST3.ehmBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5048
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Rumor has it that the NEDO cold fusion program has finally bit the dust. They
have reportedly cut off funding to SRI, and they are preparing to shut down
the operation in Japan too. Selling off equipment, giving people their walking
papers. I have not confirmed this at the highest levels yet, but it is what I
have been expecting for some time. As I reported here and in I.E., during
ICCF6, the NEDO managers told me the program was in deep trouble and they were
not sure of additional funding. The fiscal year in Japan ends in April, so now
is when the money runs out. (That is also the end of the academic year, by the
way.)

All I can say is: I Told You So. I mean Fleischmann, Storms, Cravens, Ikegami,
Bockris and many others told them so. I cited them in my Open Letter. But the
NHE went on for six more months ignoring the best advice from the top experts
in the field. So what else could have happened? This is not hot fusion; we do
not a free ticket to screw up, year after year, producing no results. Here in
the real world when you set a goal and you repeatedly fail to meet it, out you
go. Academics and bureaucrats get to thinking they have a sinecure, until it
is too late. Then they blame me for warning them! Elliot Kennel has already
accused me of being in league with Huizenga and Morrison. He believes in
shooting the messenger rather than paying heed to the warning.

I guess it is up to us now. If we cannot pull off a good demo, cold fusion
will die, maybe for years, maybe forever. Many other nascent technologies have
withered on the vine.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:15:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA03741; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:37:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:37:04 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970318213511.0067e8c8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:35:11 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"ecDzf2.0.Nw._hmBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5049
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:54 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Frederick wrote:
   >At 03:09 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
   >>Also Compton scattering is in the range of 200 keV to 2 Mev and
   >>is above what is normally reported from the few experimenters who
   >>have looked for the very low energy ionizing radiation associated
   >>with some of the experiments.
>
>Compton's work showed scattering with 19.9 keV  K-line photons from molybdenum
>or about 0.62 angstroms. So if you consider anything below 50 keV "soft" and
>difficult to detect there could be a lot going on at this "thermal" level.
>>


  19.9 KeV is actually not within the Compton region of ionizings radiations 
interaction with matter, which is circa ~0.2 to 2 MeV,
any other work by Dr. Compton notwithstanding.

  19.9 KeV is the photoelectric region.  


  19.9 keV  is 19,900 eV which is not strictly 'thermal' either.  
What do you mean because kBT is less than one eV, right?  ~ 1/25 eV.

  Hope that helps.
  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:36:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA19644; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:11:31 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:11:31 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703182210.OAA10941 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:13:07 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Hot water heaters or is that hot air heaters
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <332F0702.42877E5C math.ucla.edu>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53)
Resent-Message-ID: <"TJ_0-1.0.so4.HCnBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5050
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Barry Merriman asked some questions about P&F and then went on to the old "hot 
water heater" quest. 

Barry now pay attention the French AEC replication of P&F is basically the same 
thing P&F have been doing since 1987. Put a Pd cathode in some heavy water with 
a bit of LiOD and run under electrochemical loading conditions. The latest 
experiments are tweaked a bit since those they announced in 1989 but nothing 
really much has changed. Did you expect the 1989 protocol to survive into 1997 
unchanged.

NO whimsical wondering if these are the same allowed now. This is pure 
replication of the original work not some new mystery.

Now about that ridiculous demand for a "water heater" that has always been the 
proposed end result of every nuclear energy technology not just those in cold 
fusion. To stand up and cry for a "water heater" is to belittle the whole 
scientific endeavour. Do you demand the same water heater from your colleagues 
in the hot fusion program. That is the stated end goal of hot fusion after all. 
Is the failure of that program to produce one for the last 30 years of work and 
billions of dollars of funding evidence that they have failed and should be 
shut down. 

If you are going to apply a "where's the water heater" test at least be 
consistent. Let's put it to the HOT FUSION community a challenge match. Who 
ever makes a hot water heater first gets 60% of the funding for all forms of 
fusion research for the next 10 years. The loser can have the remaining 40%. Or 
you name the split of the spoils in terms of victor and vanquished.

Russ George 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:40:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA20686; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:21:49 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:21:49 -0800 (PST)
Date: 18 Mar 97 17:17:56 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 compuserve.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Falling buttered bread in Sci. Am.
Message-ID: <970318221755_100433.1541_BHG88-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"n36nM.0.435.vLnBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5052
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed,

 >  His conclusion: "It seems that toast tends to land butter-side
 > down because the universe is designed that way."

As many know, we have Sod's Law rather than Murphy's.  Sod's Law is a
bit stronger, it suggests that the universe is actually malign toward us
poor saps, and might be expressed as:  "Facial egg tends toward a
maximum."  Thus the chances of a demo (especially one involving
computers) failing is usually inversely proportional to the number and
importance of the attendees - unless the said attendees are actively
hostile, in which case it will probably work because that way more
people get egg on their faces.

However, all attempts to *test* these laws are, by their nature, doomed.
Firstly, Sod's Law relates solely to *single events* and therefore is
immune to the usual laws of probability.  Secondly, any test of the Law
is a reasonably dispassionate investigation, in which it doesn't really
*matter* which way up the toast lands; so the Law is being tested in
conditions which nullify its effect.

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:48:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA21043; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:24:59 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:24:59 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332F162C.33590565 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:24:44 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: NEDO bites the dust?
References: <970318213434_72240.1256_EHB86-2 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"JF0ku1.0.j85.vOnBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5053
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 
> This is not hot fusion; we do
> not a free ticket to screw up, year after year, producing no results. 

Jed: you confuse producing no net energy with producing no results.
In your parlance, that would be like saying there were no results
in powered flight before the Wright Brothers.

-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:52:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA22374; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:32:19 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:32:19 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332F17E1.4DAA423A math.ucla.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:32:01 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hot water heaters or is that hot air heaters
References: <199703182210.OAA10941 mom.hooked.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"dbpFy2.0.TT5.mVnBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5054
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Russ George wrote:
> 

> If you are going to apply a "where is the water heater" test at 

My question is not really "where is" but *"what was"*. In
1990 P&F showed something that they said was a prototype
hot water heater, no? My question is: was this a device that
supposedly functioned, or was it merely a conceptual prototype.

Now that F. is retiring, perhaps he can revisit some of their
past behaviors and explain what was actually going on. If, for
example, they would just say: "that was just a concept, not 
a functioning device", that would clear up many things.

In fact, I've got a good idea for a book. Why doesn't mallove team
up with F. to write a historical perspective on their 
CF research. That would clean up many mysteries.





-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:54:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA08834; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:15:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:15:15 -0800
Message-ID: <332F140F.7CB6 interlaced.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:15:43 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
References: <01BC3382.02CD8640 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"KNxzx1.0.y92.nFnBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5051
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions. *But* :-) they're all variations on the theme of
> put-lots-of-coils-in-a-circle-and-pulse-them, which I had already thought of. I'm looking for something a bit more elegant, if I may be so picky.
(snip)
Damn, Dan, you ARE picky!  How about just rotating a C-core about an
axis through one leg?  Balance the core with a lead counterweight.
Use PM's to provide the MMF in the C-core.  Just don't come whining
back to us with a piece of samarium-cobalt sticking out of your face!

Out of ideas---- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 15:16:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA25619; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:57:33 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:57:33 -0800 (PST)
Date: 18 Mar 97 17:55:48 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Autoradiographs and false positives
Message-ID: <970318225547_72240.1256_EHB74-3 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"sHIX_2.0.AG6.QtnBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5055
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

I accused Barry of claiming there have been no demonstration experiments and
no  independent replications of Fleischmann. He responds:

     That is not exactly what I said. What I said is more like I want to see
     such experiments.

I don't like to quibble, but what you said was: "Personally, I wouldn't find
any of F's comments 'credible' until they open up their research effort to the
extent where some demonstration experiments can be observed and independently
replicated." Now come on, Barry. Any native speaker of English would take that
to mean:

1. You do not find Fleischmann credible.
2. Pons and Fleischmann have not opened up.
3. Demonstrations have not been observed.
4. Experiments have not been independently replicated.

I assert that there are over 1500 papers, many of them peer reviewed, showing
independent replications of the Pons-Fleischmann effect, including excess heat
beyond chemistry, tritium, occasional x-rays, etc., etc. Yet you say the
experiments have not been independently replicated. I am sure you know all
those papers exist, because I have to told you dozens of times. This can only
mean that you dismiss these 1500 papers and their ~500 authors. Okay, fine. No
doubt you have your reasons. But stick to your guns, man! Don't try to weasel
out of your assertions. I do not mind so much when Morrison, Taubes and Nature
magazine boldly dismiss all experiments as fraud and lunacy. I don't mind when
Britz carefully constructs 1500 absurd reasons to dismiss the papers. But I
find it annoying when you play peek-a-boo and pretend that the results have
disappeared, and they never existed in the first place. At least Morrison has
a coherent point of view that can be proved right or wrong. He says that all
cold fusion scientists are liars, or lunatics, or idiots who cannot measure 50
deg C Delta T temperatures. Your position appears to be: Hey Presto! -- three
file cabinets in Jed's office just vanished! None of this has happened, it is
all your imagination. How can I argue with that?


     I'll take a look at the french AEC stuff as soon as I get a chance . . .

Great. But you have had six years to look at the peer-reviewed work by
Storms, McKubre, Bockris, Miles, Celani, etc., etc. If that material is not
good enough to convince you, I am afraid the French AEC material will also
leave you cold. I do not understand why you have suddenly set the French AEC
as a be-all, make-or-break standard for cold fusion. Why should everything
ride on the credibility of that particular experiment? Why should anything?
It is one of thousands, albeit one of the better, more dramatic experiments.
I do not think any reader of this forum (or any person on earth) can point to
a significant error in the work of, say, Melvin Miles. Nobody has ever tried,
as far as I know. So his 1990 papers proved the point, and the AEC work is
merely icing on the cake.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 15:50:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA16166; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:04:39 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:04:39 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b00af54cdef0381 [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:06:11 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: NEDO bites the dust?
Resent-Message-ID: <"HwGI-2.0.Wy3.5-nBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5056
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>.................. This is not hot fusion; we do
>not a free ticket to screw up, year after year, producing no results. Here in
>the real world when you set a goal and you repeatedly fail to meet it, out
>>you go.........

Vortexians, there are too many putdowns being posted lately.  You may or
may not like thermonuclear fusion for a variety of reasons.  However, those
of us who work in this field have made exponential progress, by some
measures equalling the rate of performance growth of computers.  We now
make and control plasmas at a couple of hundred million degrees C--just
what is needed for fusion--and we are rapidly improving the confinement.  A
large number of fusion experiments that did not apear to lead to further
progress were cut off over the years.  There is no free ticket.  We have to
produce.  One of the few survivors is the tokamak that so many of you love
to criticize.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 16:08:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA01186; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:45:45 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:45:45 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:45:17 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703182345.RAA27672 natashya.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Compton scatter
Resent-Message-ID: <"Bb36e3.0.NI.baoBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5058
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 16:35 3/18/97 -0500, Mitchell wrote:

>  19.9 KeV is actually not within the Compton region of ionizings radiations 
>interaction with matter, which is circa ~0.2 to 2 MeV,

The phenomena known as Compton scattering occurs when a photon strikes a
comparatively free electron at rest.  Conservation of energy and momentum
require the electron to acquire some of the photon energy so the photon
scatters off with an approriately reduced energy that is a function of both
the original energy and the scattering angle (ref 1).  

There is no "cutoff" energy for Compton scattering.  At 20 keV, the energy
loss for 180 degree scattering is about 2 keV and, as a result, the Compton
scattered x-ray peak is easily resolved (with a Si(Li) detector) from the
coherent (elastic) scattered peak when such x-rays are used for excitation
in x-ray fluorescence analysis (ref 2).

1.  Semat, Henry and Albright, John "Introduction to Atomic and Nuclear
Physics" fifth edition, p. 143

2. Little, Scott "20 years of personal experience in XRF analysis"...a book
I am qualified to write but haven't yet.




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 16:21:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA17953; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:16:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:16:45 -0800
Message-Id: <199703182315.PAA02659 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:18:38 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Hot water heaters or is that hot air heaters
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <332F17E1.4DAA423A math.ucla.edu>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"HvOQE.0.IO4.R9oBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5057
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Actually we can trace water heaters back to the CBC television documentary and 
some rather liberal editing. As Stan Pons told me  he was told during an 
inteview by a friendly CBC reporter (who is by the way a good personal friend 
of mine) to "blue sky the concept" for a bit. This is a common trick used by 
those in TV production to get an otherwise somewhat uptight subject 
to loosen up. Stan agreed and did not expect the footage to be used in the 
manner it was. According to Jerry Thompson, the CBC reporter, when the program 
was in Toronto being cut for broadcast the editor and producer took some 
liberties to use that piece of "dramatic" footage in the program knowing the 
context they were placing it in was not correct. Such is life in televison 
production a spicy bit is never left on the cutting room floor. 

Ever since the "water heater" story has been touted and paraded about by 
those whose honor and integrity is about the level of a dung beetle (no 
offense to dung beetles) just like the x-ray fogging by hydrogen leaking out of 
the cathode. Spin mastering is alive and well in science and now almost 
everyone believes Stan was actually predictiing the future. 

Next question.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 16:38:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA06345; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:22:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:22:26 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332F31B0.773C2448 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:22:08 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hot water heaters or is that hot air heaters
References: <199703182345.RAA27672 natashya.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"M0nsS2.0.3Z1.07pBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5060
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Russ George wrote:
> 
> Actually we can trace water heaters back to the CBC 
> television documentary and some rather liberal editing.
...
> 
> Ever since the "water heater" story has been touted and paraded about
> ...everyone believes Stan was actually predictiing the future.
> 

Thats a useful explanations. But, still:

As I like to say: live by the sword, die by the sword.
If one chooses to conduct their science in press conferences 
and congressional hearings, and cut off researcher-to-researcher
dialogs, one must be willing to pay the price.


-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 16:44:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA23497; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:51:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:51:53 -0800
Message-ID: <332F297E.61C2 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:47:12 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
References: <01BC3326.31193280 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"coyvq2.0.2l5.NgoBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5059
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dan -

I'd think if these coils were close together, as one field was decaying,
the one next to it is energizing - and their fields are superimposed
fairly smoothly. You're too picky.<g> Time the sequential firings with a
4046 chip feeding to the gates of MOSFETs for the current to the coils,
and you can have variable speed up to around 18mhz or so per individual
pulse. In a six "cylinder" version, that's 3mhz rotation - 180 million
RPM. Fast enough?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 16:53:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA07478; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:31:28 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:31:28 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970319003131.00664ff0 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:31:31 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"wK4gi.0.lq1.UFpBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5061
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott Little writes:

     In some cases the mysterious exposure of film ... has been attributed
to a         reaction between the hydrogen gas coming out of the cathode and
the film.

Jed asks:

        Attributed by who, in which cases?

        Srinivasan describes many ways to expose x-ray film (hydrogen
peroxide actually being better than hydrogen, BTW).  Yet, under the
conditions of Srinivasan's experiment, at least, 1 atm of hydrogen for 96
hours was insufficient to expose the film. Also, pure hydrogen peroxide is
unable to penetrate paper filters; but the PdD and PdH effect persists
through several layers of filters.   As I mentioned in an earlier post,
Srinivasan considered heat, optical radiation, electromagnetic radiation,
alphas, betas, neutrons, gammas, x-rays, radiofrequency, pressure,
temperature and probably a few others, but was unable to produce a
satisfactory explanation. 

Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo  



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 17:13:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA10659; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC33BD.768B08B0 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'freenrg-l eskimo.com'"
	 <freenrg-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: rotating magnetic field
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:57:27 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"rpvX33.0.Kc2.SepBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5062
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Fred Epps (on freenrg-l) wrote:
  (snip)
  >I know you wanted to get away from moving parts but I suspect that =
the
  >interesting effects actually show up with the rotation of matter with =
the
  >magnetic field.=20
  (snip)

What I think I'm after, Fred, is the interesting effects of the rotation =
of a field in "space".

  (snip)
  >So even though WE call the situations identical in our physics,
  >NATURE does not call them identical. interesting...
  (snip)

Which is why I'm not willing to call switched fields identical to a =
rotating one! <g>

and Rick Monteverde (on Vortex-l) wrote:

  >I'd think if these coils were close together, as one field was =
decaying,
  >the one next to it is energizing - and their fields are superimposed
  >fairly smoothly. You're too picky.<g> Time the sequential firings =
with a

 Yes, I'm very picky, maybe too much. But apparently so is nature (seen =
any overunity or antigravity lately?).

  >4046 chip feeding to the gates of MOSFETs for the current to the =
coils,
  >and you can have variable speed up to around 18mhz or so per =
individual
  >pulse. In a six "cylinder" version, that's 3mhz rotation - 180 =
million
  >RPM. Fast enough?

Yeah, 180 Mrpm is certainly fast enough! Sounds like an interesting =
thing to do, and I really really do appreciate these ideas. And if I =
can't figure it out the way I'd like I'll fall back on one of them.

Not wanting to offend anyone, but I'm going to continue to be particular =
as much as I can get away with it (though I'd much rather be wavelike =
;-). I'm not after superimposed fields. What I'm after here is the =
magnetic field uniformly spinning through space/whatever at high angular =
velocity. Hopefully (here I go again) without a bunch of wires and coils =
in the midst of the field to tangle things up, because there are things =
I'd like to do with the field... I'm thinking this could be useful in =
gravity experiments, perhaps.

Maybe can't get it figured out the way I'd like to have it work, maybe =
we can't do it with our current technology, maybe it's not even =
important - but I'll keep thinking on it.
Thanks again!

By the way, I'm pretty new on these lists, and am favorably impressed =
with how helpful and collaborative everyone (almost) is. You guys are =
great! (well, guys are all I've heard from so far - why's that?)

Dan

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 17:57:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA15211; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:41:41 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:41:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970319014152.00664ff0 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:41:52 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re:  NEDO bites the dust?
Resent-Message-ID: <"aC9L93.0.Zj3.IHqBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5063
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed writes,
        >>Rumor has it...<<

        Oh, please!  I only work for NEDO, whereas I've already conceded to
you the role of Official Last Word in Cold Fusion, so perhaps I'm not
qualified to comment on the rumors you have heard.  But I always hate rumors
from unnamed sources anyway.    
        As I understand the situation, the four-year project was originally
scheduled to terminate at the end of March, but has been extended for
another year at a lower funding level than last year.  So you can interpret
that negatively or positively as you choose.  
        However, in my opinion this is the number one place in the world for
cold fusion research.  That's why I'm here (BTW, if there is a place in the
US that can compare, let me know and I'll send my resume there quick).  In
the meantime, NEDO extended the fellowship for me and for Andrei Lipson
until April 1998.  We are also continuing to sponsor research in
electromigration with the Celani group at Frascati, Italy and now have an
operating cell here, for which yours truly is the group leader (although
Hiroshi Kamimura is the top technical specialist here in pulsed electronics,
and has done most of the work). 

        >>I guess it is up to us now. If we cannot pull off a good demo,
cold fusion will die, maybe for years, maybe forever<<  

        I wish you nothing but success in your technical endeavors.
Besides, if your judgments have been correct to date, by simply following
your own suggestions, success ought to be inevitable.   

Yours truly,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo Japan

       

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 18:46:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13366; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:32:39 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:32:39 -0800
From: hjscudde pacbell.net
Message-ID: <332F5316.5599 pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:44:38 -0800
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBXE  (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
References: <01BC3326.31193280 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"tzViL2.0.lG3.51rBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5065
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field, without moving parts. One pole would be fixed at the center, and the 
other would move rad
> 
> Why? Why not? <g> Actually at this point all I have is some vague conceptual intuitive sense that such a critter could be useful in energy 
and gravity experime
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Dan QuickertDan
	Rotating magnetic fields happen all the time in motors. The 
simplest no moving part system consists of two split coils, at right 
angles to each other across an open space which they both contribute 
flux. Excite these coils with a sinusoidal current(AC) with the cureent 
in the two coils 90 degrees apart. A more efficient design is three 
coils, spacially 120 degrees apart, excited by 3-phase AC.
Hank Scudder

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 18:46:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13416; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:32:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:32:55 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970319023100.00683b50 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:31:00 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: RE:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"FdXrZ1.0.XH3.L1rBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5066
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:27 PM 3/17/97 -0600, Scott Little 
>EarthTech International wrote:
>At 10:52 AM 3/18/97 +0900, Elliot K wrote:
>>of radiation are emitted by cold fusion cells.  Moreover, some experiments
>>have sought to locate x-ray detectors close to the cathode to avoid
>>attenuation from the electrolyte.  There are some possible small signals
>>detected, but nothing at all commensurate with x-ray film exposure, never
>>mind excess heat.  So it remains an enigma.
>
>Elliot, pardon me for coming in late here.
>
>In some cases the mysterious exposure of film in CF experiments,
>particularly those instances where reacted cathodes were removed from cells
>and placed close to the film, has been attributed to a reaction between the
>hydrogen gas coming out of the cathode and the film.
>
>Does this possibly apply to the cases you've been discussing?


  Scott, 

  Could you please provide your attribution? Comments on s.p.f by a
closet arm-chair scientist who has never taken an xray image or
calculated an exposure rate, a midline dose delivered,  
developed an xray film, or seriously studied the field of radiology 
(or cold fusion), dont count.

  Like so much (dis)info from the skeptics this comment is wrong and 
apparently only meant to again falsely impugn both field and those
who actually took the time to do, and report, the experiments.
Where is the substance for the brick-toss?

  Several experimenters have obtained autoradioraphy of their electrodes
and with appropriate controls.  Furthermore the autoradiographic patterns
match the shape of the electrode. 

  As someone who actually knows something about radiology,
and has checked the groups of some sets of films, and other 
confirmatory autoradiography, IMHO many of the criticisms such as yours 
simply are unsupported conjecture, or repeated espousals of such,
and appear to have no substance for claiming any generality. 

  Hope that helps.
    Mitchell Swartz

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 18:55:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13249; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:31:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:31:33 -0800
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970319023151.00664ff0 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:31:51 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"vnVtR.0.tE3.30rBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5064
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
        >>I ran some calculations on the energy loss of the proposed
"light electrons" with mass Me/137 and Me/137^2 at high 
relativistic values. The momentum loss compared to a regular
electron at relativistic energies is very high.  Might this explain
collisional heat sans the bremsstrahlung radiation that you would get with
regular "beta" interaction?

Hi Frederick,
        To tell the truth I haven't followed the light electron hypothesis
that closely. But isn't bremsstrahlung generated due to the acceleration (or
de-celeration) of a charge?  So I would think that light particles with high
energy would correspond to high brehmsstrahlung, rather than the other way
around. Heavier particles, such as alphas, do not produce much
brehmsstrahlung as their energy loss in an absorbing medium is generally due
to coulombic interactions with electrons in the absorbing medium lattice. Or
have I misunderstood your hypothesis?
       Anyway, getting radiationless heat is not really a theoretical
problem in itself.  One way is to make heavy mass particles (bigger than
alphas) with reasonable energy which would be emitted a micron or so within
the surface of a material.  Such particles would lose their kinetic energy
within the medium in the form of lattice energy (heat)and not emit any
radioactive signature. Thus, this could produce heat without radiation.
       Now, how do you make such particles and give them energy?  THAT is a
problem!  

Yours truly,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo 
 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 19:02:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA22012; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:50:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:50:26 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970319024822.0067fbf0 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:48:22 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"qf7zG1.0.qN5.kHrBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5067
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:15 PM 3/18/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Vortexians:
>
>Just to make things interesting and so I can finish my sandcastle
>before a big wave washes it away, I suggest the following experiment.
>
>Immerse an x-ray film in distlled de-ionized water between a pair 
>of metal plates with less than a volt potential between them.
>
>Repeat until you are convinced that this is a worthless experiment. <g>
>
>Regards,     Frederick
>
>

  On this, the hundredth anniversary of radiology, it is important
to note that the xrays were discovered by the imaging of Ms. Roentgen's
hand (an image I have been fortunate to have once seen), and that -- like
autoradiography of the cold fusion electrodes -- the field, its physics,
its imaging, and the images it produces, will survive longer
then those few who laugh on their way to their sandcastles and sandboxes.

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 19:08:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA15430; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:51:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:51:05 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970319024908.0069c50c world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:49:08 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Compton scatter
Resent-Message-ID: <"M6Xm02.0._m3.MIrBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5068
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:45 PM 3/18/97 -0600, Scott Little wrote:
>At 16:35 3/18/97 -0500, Mitchell wrote:
>
>>  19.9 KeV is actually not within the Compton region of ionizings radiations 
>>interaction with matter, which is circa ~0.2 to 2 MeV,
>
>The phenomena known as Compton scattering occurs when a photon strikes a
>comparatively free electron at rest.  Conservation of energy and momentum
>require the electron to acquire some of the photon energy so the photon
>scatters off with an approriately reduced energy that is a function of both
>the original energy and the scattering angle (ref 1).  

  lambda new - lambda old = h/mc (1- cos (theta))

  yes this is well known, and it is what I referred to, Scott.
 How about focusing on the issue of the relevance of the effect, and the actual 
energy domain which those in the field of ionizing radiation refer to when
the speak of the Compton region?



>There is no "cutoff" energy for Compton scattering.  At 20 keV, the energy
>loss for 180 degree scattering is about 2 keV and, as a result, the Compton
>scattered x-ray peak is easily resolved (with a Si(Li) detector) from the
>coherent (elastic) scattered peak when such x-rays are used for excitation
>in x-ray fluorescence analysis (ref 2).
>
>1.  Semat, Henry and Albright, John "Introduction to Atomic and Nuclear
>Physics" fifth edition, p. 143
>
>2. Little, Scott "20 years of personal experience in XRF analysis"...a book
>I am qualified to write but haven't yet.
>


 
 1.  Are you denying that Compton scattering dominates as the major method
for the interaction
of ionizing radiation with matter from about ~200 keV to 2 Mev or not?  It does.

 2.  and/Or are you disputing that it is minor compared to the photoelectric
effect for
energies below 200 keV?  It is.

 3. and/Or are you disputing that it is minor compared to pair production for
energies above 2 MeV? it is.

  BTW, the energy of 19 keV is in the photoelectric region.  

  Hope that helps.
   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)







From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 20:02:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA23389; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:50:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:50:04 -0800
From: VCockeram aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:49:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970318224849_-738154277 emout03.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: A couple of questions
Resent-Message-ID: <"aZpaV.0.Nj5.h9sBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5069
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 



Fellow Vortexians,

Could anyone of you help me with thes questions I have?

(1) Does the water molecule (H2O) have a specific resonant frequency? 
(2) If it does,what is that frequency?
(3) Does atomic hydrogen (H) and atomic oxygen have a specific resonant
frequency?
(4) If they do, what are they? 

If these are dumb questions, please excuse. Just a thought I had this
evening.


Thanks in advance,
Vince

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 20:40:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA02963; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:29:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:29:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <m0w7CzW-0004V4C mirage.skypoint.com>
From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan)
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:28:46 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <970318224849_-738154277 emout03.mail.aol.com> from "VCockeram@aol.com" at Mar 18, 97 10:49:17 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"gAWqP1.0.Dk.qksBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5070
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> (1) Does the water molecule (H2O) have a specific resonant frequency? 

I believe, since it has multiple degrees of freedom, it actually has
several resonant frequencies.

> (2) If it does,what is that frequency?

Someone once posted several, in answer to the classic question about
microwave ovens.  This guy's answer was that microwave ovens, in the
1-2Ghz region, were too low.  I don't recall the answers, but they
were somewhat higher, for some reason 10 Ghz stands out, but I can't
recall for sure.

> (3) Does atomic hydrogen (H) and atomic oxygen have a specific resonant
> frequency?

I would have to assume everything has resonant frequencies.  Often several
resonant frequencies.

-- 
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  612-699-9472 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 20:49:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA30183; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:36:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:36:45 -0800
Date: 18 Mar 97 23:34:26 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: NEDO bites the dust?
Message-ID: <970319043425_72240.1256_EHB61-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"08Xtq2.0.ON7.SrsBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5071
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Elliot writes:

     I wish you nothing but success in your technical endeavors.

Strictly speaking, they are not my technical endeavors. I am merely observing,
reporting, and paying some of the bills.


     Besides, if your judgments have been correct to date, by simply
     following your own suggestions, success ought to be inevitable.

I have never made any technical suggestions. I have no detailed knowledge of
electrochemistry or nuclear physics, so I am not capable of making
suggestions. All I have ever done is to summarize the literature and the
comments made by Fleischmann, Storms and others. I believe they know how
to get the CF effect, because they report continued success in their
experiments. It seems to me that the NHE and other labs that failed to
replicate have not paid sufficient attention to the literature. Fleischmann et
al. say they agree with me. Elliot and many others try to pin the blame on me
for their own failures. They accuse me of putting on airs and making myself
out to be some kind of expert. But their real target is Fleischmann, Storms,
Bockris, Mizuno and the other successful experimenters whose work they ignore.
Elliot is not denigrating me, he is denigrating Storms, a man he claims he
admires. He is not ignoring my advice -- because I have none -- he is ignoring
Storms' advice.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 21:01:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA30203; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:36:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:36:48 -0800
Date: 18 Mar 97 23:34:38 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Hot fusion progress
Message-ID: <970319043437_72240.1256_EHB61-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"1LQ4w.0.kN7.UrsBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5072
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Michael Schaffer writes:

     You may or may not like thermonuclear fusion for a variety of reasons. 
     However, those of us who work in this field have made exponential
     progress, by some measures equalling the rate of performance growth of
     computers.  We now make and control plasmas at a couple of hundred
     million degrees C--just what is needed for fusion--and we are rapidly
     improving the confinement.

I am not qualified to judge the scientific progress of the hot fusion program.
But I can judge the project in terms of engineering, product development, and
meeting schedules. On that basis, hot fusion has been one of the worst R&D
projects in history, second only to alchemy. It is decades behind schedule,
and there is no telling how much more time and money it will take. All private
industry support for it evaporated a generation ago. Experts at EPRI and
elsewhere long ago recommended to the Congress that hot fusion be scrapped. I
have read detailed reports on the potential engineering and economic problems
written by EPRI and by a team of experts from Los Alamos, submitted in
Congressional testimony. (I don't have the titles handy.) As I see it, both
groups demonstrated conclusively that hot fusion has no future as a practical
technology. Significant scientific progress alone is never enough to make a
practical, commercial product. If it was we would have Josephson Junction
supercomputers, VTOL aircraft, electric automobiles, and many other wonderful
gadgets that never made it in spite of significant technical progress.

Sorry, but that is the way I see it, and that is no snap judgement. It has
nothing to do cold fusion. I am in favor of research into light water
moderator fission reactors, as recommended by the Los Alamos group, so I am
not anti-nuke.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 21:36:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA07177; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:23:32 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:23:32 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barry math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <332F7840.31D2DE92 math.ucla.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:23:12 -0800
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Organization: UCLA Dept. of Mathematics
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3 sun4m)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hot fusion progress
References: <970319043437_72240.1256_EHB61-2 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZoqIU3.0.2m1.GXtBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5073
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 
> I can judge the project in terms of engineering, 
> product development, and meeting schedules. On that basis, 
> hot fusion has been one of the worst R&D projects in history, 
> second only to alchemy. 

Actually, the Alchemy project had three major goals: 
an elixir for eternal life, production of gold from base
metals, production of diamonds from ordinary stones

The first of these has not panned out, the second has achieved
proof of principle (via neutron bombardment) but is not economical, 
and the last one has been a major economic success, since GE 
made artificial diamonds from carbon in the 1960's.

In fact, I would say so far the Alchemy effort has been
more succeful than cold fusion.

(Tho, now, Miley, Mizuno, et al seem to be saying that cold fusion 
 *is* Alchemy.)

:-)

-- 
Barry Merriman
Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program
Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math
email: barry math.ucla.edu   homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 22:27:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA11235; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:06:04 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:06:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC33E8.12CD6090 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'freenrg-l eskimo.com'" <freenrg-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'vortex-l eskimo.com'"
	 <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: rotating magnetic field
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:02:26 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"AwbZj3.0.Kl2.69uBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5074
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Thanks, all.

I think I'm beginning to see some directions to take this thing. You've =
given me some good info and clues about where I need to learn more. =
Gonna sit back and cogitate on it for a while, maybe a long while. Hey, =
it's turned into full-bore sunny Spring here and I think it's time to =
get up into the hills and test the energy flow from Earth to Dan's toes =
and upward. Might cause an inspirational spin!

Dan

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 18 23:43:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA18427; Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:32:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:32:48 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re:Autoradiographs
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:32:07 +0000
Message-ID: <19970319073205.AAA7208 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"0lvSP3.0.rV4.VQvBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5075
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 02:48 AM 3/19/97 +0000, Mitchell wrote:
>
>  On this, the hundredth anniversary of radiology, it is important
>to note that the xrays were discovered by the imaging of Ms. Roentgen's
>hand (an image I have been fortunate to have once seen), and that -- like
>autoradiography of the cold fusion electrodes -- the field, its physics,
>its imaging, and the images it produces, will survive longer
>then those few who laugh on their way to their sandcastles and sandboxes.
>
>  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)
>
Funny how things get twisted around with time. Actually Mr. Roentgen's
cat (an ancestor of Russ George's cat) walked through the beam giving
the world the first Cat Scan. :-)

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 00:19:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA20311; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:03:05 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:03:05 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970319080806.008b5e84 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:08:06 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"UZ02K3.0.Gz4.usvBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5076
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 06:13 AM 3/18/97 -0600, you wrote:

>>Eh-hem.  I SAW it.  There is nothing elaborate about it.  Wire around
>>a balloon, set with its own weight balanced out, and DC through the wire.
>>
>>Duh.
>
>As I said before, it is evident that you were smoking something which would
>go over quite well at Mardi Gras!  And as stated before, HIGH current was
>_not_ employed since, as such, it _would_ tend to heat the helium.
>
>Hello?
>
>
>

Well, then I will play your game and accuse both you and Newman of 
smoking something, so it is a draw, and your methods have failed.  

Sorry pal no convert.  I worship elsewhere.  

And no "Wow man, Newman's cool man" either, but you might find that 
from those who DO smoke something.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 00:31:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA32076; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:21:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:21:42 -0800
Message-Id: <199703190821.JAA31890 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:49:00 CET
Subject: Filimonenko & St Petersburg
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"uKdPB1.0.4r7.L8wBp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5077
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Filimonenko wasn't mentioned at the St Petersburg conference, as far as I 
noticed.

There was basically only one lecture on cold fusion, by a professor Ph. M. 
Kanarev from Krasnodar. Kanarev was a theoretician who was working with the 
experimenters Becklemeshev and Becklemesheva in Krasnodar. 

Many experiments were performed, with various electrodes. The preferred 
electrode material was apparently wolfram, voltages around 160 V (one 
hundred and sixty Volt !!!) and 1.5 A. The electrodes emitted a shining 
light....
The electrolyte was unspecified, and there was no drawing of the apparatus. 
There was no description of experimental procedure in the way a westerner 
would expect. 

Kanarev wasnt interested in experimental procedure, only in theoretical 
explanations. His explanations were unusual and didnt make sense to me, 
perhaps because of the poor translation to English. He preferred to work 
with vectorial energies and a vectorial Planck's constant, which didnt 
immediately make sense to me. He referred to a book he had written for 
further explanations.

No mention of Filimonenko, but Kanarev had an Email address, 
esin kccc.kuban.su, so you could ask him...

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 00:53:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA25100; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:40:23 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:40:23 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970319084517.008eaeac mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:45:17 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: rotating magnetic field
Resent-Message-ID: <"su3Sz1.0.286.oPwBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5078
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:02 PM 3/18/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Thanks, all.
>
>I think I'm beginning to see some directions to take this thing. 

Dan, you got me thinking along a line there that I wish I 
could spend more time on.

Picture a flying saucer type shell, and that moving magnetic field of yours
inside.  Suppose a high voltage source is pulling electrons from 
the air above it and forcing them out the bottom.  Might the 
moving magnetic field be able to constrain the movement of the 
electrons below, to restrict their ability to get around the sides 
to the positive charges above?  If so, then you have a charged 
medium beneath that can then be "treated", with whatever frequencies 
you might want to hit it with, from within that shell.  
Not an easy engineering task, but it would match a few of the 
phenomena described by some of the lucky "guests".

Said too much.

Gary Hawkins 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 01:51:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA28436; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:41:44 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:41:44 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703190941.KAA50698 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:22:00 CET
Subject: Rotating magnetic field
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"lizdS3.0.Dy6.LJxBp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5079
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field, 
>without mo
>ving parts. One pole would be fixed at the center, and the other would 
>move radi
>ally - as if you had a bar magnet on a pivot, but without the mechanical 
>motion.
> Ideally it would be a smooth rotation, not stepped, and eventually would 
>like t
>o be able to rotate it extremely fast.
...
>Any ideas?

>Dan Quickert

The answer to your question is very simple and very obvious.
Two coils with the same center, but with axes perpendicular to each other, 
and fed with sinusoidal currents with a phase difference of 90 degrees will 
do exactly what you ask for.

No moving parts.
Smoothly rotating magnetic field vector.
No stepping.
Any desired angular velocity, including extremely fast.

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 06:50:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA30223; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:27:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:27:17 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:26:54 +0000
Message-ID: <19970319142652.AAA18115 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"kF1M4.0.9O7.3V_Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5080
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 02:31 AM 3/19/97 +0000, Elliot Kennel wrote:
>Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>        >>I ran some calculations on the energy loss of the proposed
>"light electrons" with mass Me/137 and Me/137^2 at high 
>relativistic values. The momentum loss compared to a regular
>electron at relativistic energies is very high.  Might this explain
>collisional heat sans the bremsstrahlung radiation that you would get with
>regular "beta" interaction?
>
>Hi Frederick,
>        To tell the truth I haven't followed the light electron hypothesis
>that closely. But isn't bremsstrahlung generated due to the acceleration (or
>de-celeration) of a charge?  So I would think that light particles with high
>energy would correspond to high brehmsstrahlung, rather than the other way
>around. Heavier particles, such as alphas, do not produce much
>brehmsstrahlung as their energy loss in an absorbing medium is generally due
>to coulombic interactions with electrons in the absorbing medium lattice. Or
>have I misunderstood your hypothesis?

Not misunderstood, just not thought through.  The x-ray efficiency for an 
electron at voltage V striking a target of atomic number Z, is 1.3E-9*V*Z.
So for Pd at V = 5.0E6, eff = 1.3E-9*5.0E6*46 = 0.30. So if you were getting
5 watts of heat from a reaction where the light electron formed small
hydrogen that went into the palladium and caused a tnansmutation of some
sort, whereupon the light electron is expelled from the new compound nucleus
carrying possibly tens of Mev's of relativistic kinetic energy, what would
be your thoughts on all of this energy being dissipated as heat with no
ionizing radiation signature?
Keeping in mind that the water and other materials in the makeup of the "cell"
have different efficiency for eff.= 1.3E-9*V*Z.

>       Anyway, getting radiationless heat is not really a theoretical
>problem in itself.  One way is to make heavy mass particles (bigger than
>alphas) with reasonable energy which would be emitted a micron or so within
>the surface of a material.  Such particles would lose their kinetic energy
>within the medium in the form of lattice energy (heat)and not emit any
>radioactive signature. Thus, this could produce heat without radiation.

You could always isolate light electrons and run them up to 4 Gev to get
particles as heavy as helium. <g> The problem of getting heat without
ionizing radiation is the main sticking point with CF results. <g>


>Now, how do you make such particles and give them energy?  THAT is a
>problem! 

Try rubbing your computer screen with a silk handkerchief and loading the
electrical particles you get into a particle accelerator and see what you get.

>
>Yours truly,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo 
> 
Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 07:11:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA30982; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:32:51 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:32:51 -0800
Date: 19 Mar 97 09:31:31 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Need whiz-bang energy apps
Message-ID: <970319143130_72240.1256_EHB106-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"MSCaS1.0.-Z7.Ga_Bp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5081
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

I am writing an article for a future issue of I.E. about the technological
potential of a zero cost, unlimited, compact energy source. I have compiled a
list of gadgets that we could make with such an energy source. I include the
usual stuff like cars and airplanes that go forever without refueling,
mid-ocean telephone repeaters, and improved desalination. I have also dug up
some unconventional things like the Molten Metals Technology toxic chemical
treatment method, which I believe would be more cost-effective with zero cost
energy. (See www.mmt.com.) If you have a favorite use for low to no cost
energy, please e-mail it to me or post it here.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 07:19:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA15704; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:55:33 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 06:55:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: josephnewman earthlink.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v02130502af55b88f3783 [153.34.200.83]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:52:09 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: The Patent
Resent-Message-ID: <"8tngf2.0.Cr3.Ru_Bp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5082
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>At 06:13 AM 3/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>>Eh-hem.  I SAW it.  There is nothing elaborate about it.  Wire around
>>>a balloon, set with its own weight balanced out, and DC through the wire.
>>>
>>>Duh.
>>
>>As I said before, it is evident that you were smoking something which would
>>go over quite well at Mardi Gras!  And as stated before, HIGH current was
>>_not_ employed since, as such, it _would_ tend to heat the helium.
>>
>>Hello?
>>
>
>Well, then I will play your game and accuse both you and Newman of
>smoking something, so it is a draw, and your methods have failed.
>
>Sorry pal no convert.  I worship elsewhere.
>
>And no "Wow man, Newman's cool man" either, but you might find that
>from those who DO smoke something.

Dear Gary,

"Worship" wherever you please.  Any "failure" is on the part of one whose
pathological scepticism reinforces their intellectual dishonesty.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 07:25:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA06184; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:09:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:09:06 -0800
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:08:40 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703191508.JAA18789 natasha.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Compton scatter
Resent-Message-ID: <"wf98q2.0.QW1.F60Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5083
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mitchell, you are right about the predominant mechanisms for photon
interaction with matter...but here's how we got off on this:

Fred said:

>Compton's work showed scattering with 19.9 keV  K-line photons from molybdenum
>or about 0.62 angstroms. 

to which you said:

>19.9 KeV is actually not within the Compton region of ionizings radiations 
>interaction with matter, which is circa ~0.2 to 2 MeV,
>any other work by Dr. Compton notwithstanding.

It looked to me like you were saying that Compton SCATTERING did not occur
at 20 keV.  It does.

Scott

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 08:12:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA15778; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:57:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:57:53 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Compton scatter
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:56:56 +0000
Message-ID: <19970319155654.AAA29901 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"QU7eB.0.Ps3.0q0Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5084
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:08 PM 3/19/97 +0000, Scott wrote:

>Mitchell, you are right about the predominant mechanisms for photon
>interaction with matter...but here's how we got off on this:
>
>Fred said:
>
>>Compton's work showed scattering with 19.9 keV  K-line photons from molybdenum
>>or about 0.62 angstroms. 
>
>to which you said:
>
>>19.9 KeV is actually not within the Compton region of ionizings radiations 
>>interaction with matter, which is circa ~0.2 to 2 MeV,
>>any other work by Dr. Compton notwithstanding.
>
>It looked to me like you were saying that Compton SCATTERING did not occur
>at 20 keV.  It does.
>
>Scott
>
If you want to take it a step further, Raman Scattering occurs for photons
down to the infrared region where the scattered photons can lose or gain
energy from interacting with molecules, (Stokes or Anti-Stokes Lines). 

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 08:21:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA21405; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:07:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:06:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970319110635_-835353993 emout16.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: rotating magnetic field
Resent-Message-ID: <"kVB2t.0.NE5.uy0Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5085
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


In a message dated 3/18/97 1:15:27 AM, you wrote:

<<I've been trying to figure a way to create a rotating magnetic field,
without moving parts.>>

A series of coils arranged in a circle, driven out of phase, will generate a
rotating magnetic field;  this is used in motor geometries to drag an
armature around.

Hal Puthoff

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 09:07:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA23962; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:55:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:55:22 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:54:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970319115439_1083722403 emout18.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hot fusion progress
Resent-Message-ID: <"RA0ab3.0.Js5.uf1Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5086
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

The current March issue of Physics Today (Letters Section) has three detailed
letters on hot fusion progress that claim unliklihood of economic viability,
for those interested in following this debate.

Hal Puthoff

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 09:40:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA27821; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:21:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:21:09 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b01af55ceb75824 [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:22:46 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Need whiz-bang energy apps
Resent-Message-ID: <"KNzfQ.0.do6.422Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5087
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed wrote:
>
>I am writing an article for a future issue of I.E. about the technological
>potential of a zero cost, unlimited, compact energy source. I have compiled a
>list of gadgets that we could make with such an energy source....

I have been around a while and was involved in two such studies in the mid
1970s, when everyone doing any kind of energy research at all had chutzpa
to spare.  I came away sobered.  The falacy is in uncritical interpretation
of the words "zero cost" or "free".  Coal and petroleum in the ground are
"zero cost".  So is solar energy, be it direct radient energy, wind, hydro
power waves, etc.  All energy starts at "zero cost".

The "cost of energy" is the cost of capturing the energy; processing,
storing and delivering it to the user;  converting it for a useful end
application; and disposing of the side and end products generated at each
of these steps.  Each of these steps incurs an appreciable cost.

No new source of "free energy" will escape similar costs.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 10:01:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA28022; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:22:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:22:15 -0800
Message-Id: <v02130501af54fffd28f0 [153.34.200.83]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:24:13 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: RE: rotating magnetic field
Resent-Message-ID: <"8Wu7Q.0.er6.432Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5088
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

From
Chapter 13
The Static Embodiment (Energy Machine)


"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled,
the humiliating question arises:  Why then are you not taking part in
them?"
                                             --- H.G. WELLS


SECTION 27.
The reader should now become aware that other physical embodiments of my
Pioneering Invention can result by securing the proper*, atom-oriented,
current-carrying materials which have a proper geometric design, and are
placed within the magnetic field of a permanent magnet.

27-A.
QUESTION:  How does one explain the effect of Lenz's Law which states that
"the current induced in a circuit due to a change in the magnetic flux
through it or to its motion in a magnetic field is so directed as to oppose
the change in flux or to exert a mechanical force opposing the motion."

ANSWER:  Simple.  If a proper, atom-oriented material (with the proper
atomic [geometric] design) was placed within a magnetic field of
gyroscopic-action-particles (which move at C and spin at C) in a
configuration which caused current (gyroscopic particles) to flow, then it
would be necessary to physically secure the proper, atom-oriented material
within the Unobvious Magnetic Force Field.  If not secured, then the
proper, atom-oriented material would be physically repelled and the energy
transfer of gyroscopic particles would cease.

[Earlier I have demonstrated that Lenz's Law was only an observation which
in fact described those gyroscopic particles deflected from a magnetic
field.  Because such deflection occurs, it can be concluded that the spin
of such gyroscopic particles is at right angles to the spin of the
gyroscopic particles which remain within and comprise the magnetic field
itself.]

Such physical repulsion of the proper, atom-oriented material is in
accordance with Newton's Law of Action and Reaction!

______________________________________________________
*Note:  By the term "proper," I am referring to a mechanical understanding
(of both the motion of the gyroscopic particles comprising a given
electromagnetic field surrounding a magnet and the motion of the gyroscopic
particles within the atoms of the proper material) which permits one to
construct an energy machine designed for the efficient utilization of the
maximum number of gyroscopic particles existing within all interacting
systems, i.e., the stationary magnet's kinetic magnetic field and the
proper material.

In addition, the specific atomic structure (physical orientation) of the
energy machine's materials --- such as the proper material --- will differ
from element to element or compounds in terms of how such varying atomic
structures (containing billions of gyroscopic particles) will deflect
exterior gyroscopic particles impinging upon the gyroscopic particles
contained within such atomic structures.
______________________________________________________

SAMPLE DESIGNS:

1) I should recommend utilizing a uniform magnetic field as evidenced by
that generated with a strong horseshoe magnet or other means.  (Refer to
Figure 27-B)

2) The utilization of a proper, atom-oriented coil with the correct
geometric design is critical to the success of the system.  It would be
better to have only one side of the coil within that particular magnetic
field to avoid the "cancellation effect." (See Figure 27-B)
[There could be additional magnets placed in proper current polarity around
the proper, atom-oriented coil.]

3) With respect to the question of producing the proper, atom-oriented
material, it should be noted that when formed by conventional production
techniques, i.e., the use of heat, most materials appear to align their
atoms in random directions.
______________________________________________________

27-C.
One Method of Creating the Proper, Atom-Oriented Material:

As Michael Faraday proved, neutrality to a magnetic field _does not exist!_
All materials are aligned parallel or across lines of Unobvious Force when
such materials are suspended within an extremely powerful magnetic field.
If a material undergoing atomic formation is cooled within this powerful
magnetic field, then the atoms of the material will assume a particular
alignment.  The atom-alignment-direction of the material could be changed
if the magnetic field was aligned at 90 degrees to the material or at _any_
degree _less_ than 90 degrees to the material.  Such induced atom-alignment
would result in the atoms (of a given material) containing
gyroscopic-action-entities having orientations principally along the same
axis and at any desired angle of atom alignment with respect to the proper
material's length.  Thus, such material would possibly become a proper,
atom-oriented material.

27-D.
I again stress that nothing in the energy system's design can be taken for
granted!  Even the slightest degree alteration in atomic-axis-alignment can
produce a significant change in results obtained.  Refer to Sections 25-F
through 26, and you will observe visual facts which confirm the truth of
this statement.

27-E.
However, merely having atom-alignment is insufficient to produce the
desired results.  The utilized material (with its particular
atom-alignment) should produce very little (if any) magnetic field
(gyroscopic particles) in the surrounding area beyond the physical
dimensions of the material itself.  It is obvious from the facts of science
that different materials produce results which vary significantly.  (As
proof of this, simply look at the wide diversity of conductors,
semi-conductors, and non-conductors.)

27-F.
It is very likely that the proper, atom-oriented material will have a
different atomic alignment than that of a conventional magnet containing
atoms generally aligned along a certain axis which causes the release of an
_External_ Magnetic Field.  In the proper, atom-oriented material, the
magnetic energy (resulting from such atom orientation [alignment]) will be
primarily contained _within the physical boundaries of the material
itself._  The intent of such a system is to have the gyroscopic particles
of the _External_ Magnetic Field interact with the atoms comprising the
proper, atom-oriented material.  This will result in the proper Force being
applied to the axis of those gyroscopic particles being emitted from the
external, magnetic source.  When this occurs, the gyroscopic particles
(from the external magnetic source) will move at right angles to that
proper Force, but all particles will move in the _same_ direction.  [It may
be desirable to have fine conducting wire impregnated within the proper
material.]

27-G.
Ordinary materials may be possibly converted into proper, atom-oriented
materials by subjecting the ordinary material to cryogenic temperatures.
Such temperatures would reduce the random atomic motion within the material
and cause the atoms to move towards a general axial alignment.

27-H.
In addition to other methods, one can employ contained, high pressures (or
stresses) to possibly produce atom alignment.  The atoms of all materials
will react to a sufficient, external force.

27-I.
In effect, it will be essential to develop the correct techniques for the
production of proper, atom-oriented materials which achieve an atom
alignment possessing internally-contained force fields which can be coupled
with the Proper Geometric Design of the system.  Such a system will
generate the controlled release of electrical energy from magnetic fields
of Unobvious Force when the proper, atom-oriented material is _physically
secured_ within the lines of Unobvious Force comprising the External
Magnetic Field.

_____________________________________________
Additional Note:  The atoms of a conductor align at right angles to the
input current in a _circular direction_ within the conductor.  A detailed
explanation of this process was presented in the Second Edition.
_____________________________________________

Joseph Westley Newman
THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN
>From the First Edition published 1984.

______________________________________

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 10:08:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA30453; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:39:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:39:02 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b02af55d4079789 [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:40:42 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Resent-Message-ID: <"F-Rgs1.0.lR7.qI2Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5089
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>> (1) Does the water molecule (H2O) have a specific resonant frequency?
>
>I believe, since it has multiple degrees of freedom, it actually has
>several resonant frequencies.
>
>> (2) If it does,what is that frequency?
>
>Someone once posted several, in answer to the classic question about
>microwave ovens.  This guy's answer was that microwave ovens, in the
>1-2Ghz region, were too low.

        No, microwave ovens operate at one of the water molecule resonant
frequencies, at 2.something GHz.  This is a broad (low Q) resonance.  Like
most molecules, H2O has several resonances.
>
>> (3) Does atomic hydrogen (H) and atomic oxygen have a specific resonant
>> frequency?

        Atoms have their spectral lines, which are electronic resonances.
If you start from cold atoms, the accessible lines of H and O lie in the
ultraviolet.  If you apply a magnetic field, you can see the nuclear
magnetic resonance (NMR), usually in the Mz range.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 10:12:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01275; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:44:23 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:44:23 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC344A.0D2DA250 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Need whiz-bang energy apps
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:43:50 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC344A.0D2F28F0"
Resent-Message-ID: <"SHr9K.0.rJ.rN2Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5090
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC344A.0D2F28F0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Michael J. Schaffer wrote:
  (snip)
  >The "cost of energy" is the cost of capturing the energy; processing,
  >storing and delivering it to the user;  converting it for a useful =
end
  >application; and disposing of the side and end products generated at =
each
  >of these steps.  Each of these steps incurs an appreciable cost.
  >
  >No new source of "free energy" will escape similar costs.

Particularly the disposal of side and end products.

Additionally, what are the social and physical side effects of everyone =
having unlimited free energy? We're talking governments here, too, =
remember. And a whole lot of people who just don't care about the =
effects of their personal or business actions. The costs of those 'side =
effects' are going to be enormous. If I had a real solution for =
unlimited 'free energy', I'd think long and hard before letting this =
civilization get its hands on it. Perhaps not a proper subject for =
discussion on this list, but it needs to be addressed.

Dan
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC344A.0D2F28F0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC344A.0D2F28F0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 10:19:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA01563; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:02:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:02:35 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b03af55d893a91c [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:04:10 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Hot fusion progress
Resent-Message-ID: <"3ZptU.0.KO.ve2Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5091
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed writes:>
>But I can judge the project in terms of engineering, product development, and
>meeting schedules. On that basis, hot fusion has been one of the worst R&D
>projects in history, second only to alchemy. It is decades behind schedule,
>and there is no telling how much more time and money it will take. All private
>industry support for it evaporated a generation ago. Experts at EPRI and
>elsewhere long ago recommended to the Congress that hot fusion be scrapped. I
>have read detailed reports on the potential engineering and economic problems
>written by EPRI and by a team of experts from Los Alamos, submitted in
>Congressional testimony. (I don't have the titles handy.) As I see it, both
>groups demonstrated conclusively that hot fusion has no future as a practical
>technology. Significant scientific progress alone is never enough to make a
>practical, commercial product......

and Puthoff writes:
The current March issue of Physics Today (Letters Section) has three detailed
letters on hot fusion progress that claim unliklihood of economic viability,
for those interested in following this debate.

About which I remind you:
        Economic studies of thermonuclear fusion and other energy
technologies are important, because society has to decide how to allocate
scarce resources.  However, all such studies necessarily start with
assumptions:  about how economies will develop, how other energy sources
will develop, how various enabling technologies--some not even
started--will be ready when needed.....you get the idea.  The conclusions
are usually very sensitive to the assumptions made.  And if anyone can
predict the state of the economy even 5 years in advance, why hasn't he or
she won the Nobel prize in economics?

        Don't get me wrong.  These studies have their place.  Seeing
various scenarios worked out is better than total ignorance, but they are
not predictive of the future.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 11:08:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07960; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:46:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:46:03 -0800
From: kirk.shanahan srs.gov
Message-Id: <199703191843.AA07282 gateway1.srs.gov>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re[2]: Hot water heaters or is that hot air heaters
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, rgeorge@hooked.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Resent-Message-ID: <"KxQyo1.0.Fy1.gH3Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5092
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I always took the 'water heater' request to be shorthand for saying:

 Since the researchers follow this philosophy:

 "Lacking the desire to attack the problem in a 'scientific' fashion,
 with its endless need for repetitions and lack of property protection,
 we have opted for the down-to-earth approach of developing the 
 concept into a working, marketable device (such as a water heater)."

 has the device been developed to the point of having a marketable
 product?

Saying "Where's the water heater?" is just a shorthand notation.

I think it is a valid question to be asked of those who eschew the
scientific approach to validating cold fusion.

The equivalent question to those who do not is: "Where are the 
publications?"

Kirk Shanahan  {{My opinions...noone else's}}

P.S.  In case it wasn't clear, I view either method as acceptable,
if the 'product' of the process stands up under critical 
examination.

_______________________ Reply Separator _______________________

Subject: Re: Hot water heaters or is that hot air heaters
Author:  rgeorge hooked.net at Mailhub
Date:    3/18/97 11:18 AM

Actually we can trace water heaters back to the CBC television documentary and
some rather liberal editing. As Stan Pons told me  he was told during an
inteview by a friendly CBC reporter (who is by the way a good personal friend
of mine) to "blue sky the concept" for a bit. This is a common trick used by
those in TV production to get an otherwise somewhat uptight subject
to loosen up. Stan agreed and did not expect the footage to be used in the
manner it was. According to Jerry Thompson, the CBC reporter, when the program
was in Toronto being cut for broadcast the editor and producer took some
liberties to use that piece of "dramatic" footage in the program knowing the
context they were placing it in was not correct. Such is life in televison
production a spicy bit is never left on the cutting room floor.

Ever since the "water heater" story has been touted and paraded about by
those whose honor and integrity is about the level of a dung beetle (no
offense to dung beetles) just like the x-ray fogging by hydrogen leaking out of

the cathode. Spin mastering is alive and well in science and now almost
everyone believes Stan was actually predictiing the future.

Next question.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 11:53:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA12465; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530501af55ef56b3c6 [199.237.131.243]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:35:35 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"Fc2X03.0.h23.2z3Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5093
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:31 AM 3/19/97, Elliot Kennel wrote:
>Scott Little writes:
>
>     In some cases the mysterious exposure of film ... has been attributed
>to a         reaction between the hydrogen gas coming out of the cathode and
>the film.
>
>Jed asks:
>
>        Attributed by who, in which cases?
>
>        Srinivasan describes many ways to expose x-ray film (hydrogen
>peroxide actually being better than hydrogen, BTW).  Yet, under the
>conditions of Srinivasan's experiment, at least, 1 atm of hydrogen for 96
>hours was insufficient to expose the film. Also, pure hydrogen peroxide is
>unable to penetrate paper filters; but the PdD and PdH effect persists
>through several layers of filters.   As I mentioned in an earlier post,
>Srinivasan considered heat, optical radiation, electromagnetic radiation,
>alphas, betas, neutrons, gammas, x-rays, radiofrequency, pressure,
>temperature and probably a few others, but was unable to produce a
>satisfactory explanation.
>
>Best regards,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo

Won't Li+ reduce silver nitrate?  The problem with the H2 is it's not ionized.

Any direct contact of an electrode containing Li salts with a film emulsion
is bound to produce some free silver, i.e. expose the film, true?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 11:55:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA13333; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:37:00 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:37:00 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33304069.3C7 interlaced.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:37:13 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: PLASMA JOCKEYS
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"B6jVm.0.EG3.Q14Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5094
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hey, you guys quit beating up on Mike Schaffer and the other plasma
jockeys of the world!  I may need their technology to build my fusion
star ship drive.  At least we know hot fusion works (I know, I know; so
does CF!).  Maybe we need to wipe out a Bikini atoll with a CF bomb to
make the point?

At any rate, tokamak is not the enemy of CF - the vested energy
companies of the World are the real culprits against ANY new energy
source that enters "their" market place.  Add me to the list of those
who can't understand why vortexians fight with each other with so
much "free energy".  Tokamaks and CF reactors are both beautiful ideas -
from a scientific point of view.  Come on guys & gals, this stuff is
FUN!  Deep down, is'nt that why we are all here anyway?

Can't we all just get along?  Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 12:07:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA14902; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:43:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:43:00 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970319194101.006d9e6c world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:41:01 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hot water heaters or is that hot air heaters
Resent-Message-ID: <"8h-im2.0.me3.274Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5095
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 11:57 AM 3/19/97 -0400, Kirk Shanahan wrote:
>I always took the 'water heater' request to be shorthand for saying:
>
> Since the researchers follow this philosophy:
>
> "Lacking the desire to attack the problem in a 'scientific' fashion,
> with its endless need for repetitions and lack of property protection,
> we have opted for the down-to-earth approach of developing the 
> concept into a working, marketable device (such as a water heater)."
>
> has the device been developed to the point of having a marketable
> product?
>
>Saying "Where's the water heater?" is just a shorthand notation.
>


  "Where's the water heater?" is shorthand for either
congenital, inherited, or otherwise induced myopia. 

   Obviously there is a water heater.  The excess heat usually configured
to heat the water.  The water is heated, and if the
skeptics want coupling to something else, it ought be their
eyes and hands to the vast literature of this field.


--------------------------------------------------

>I think it is a valid question to be asked of those who eschew the
>scientific approach to validating cold fusion.
>
>The equivalent question to those who do not is: "Where are the 
>publications?"
>


 Asking "Where are the publications?" corroborates the above.
There have been thousands of publications, with several
hundred positives.  
  
  Many are posted at the Cold Fusion Times web site
at url  http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html


 Finally, I agree with Kirk that too many skeptics of cold fusion
appear to substitute their own hot air for diligence and
scholarship, either in the literature stack or their labs
or both.

  Hope that helps.
   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 12:14:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA16578; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:54:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:54:33 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:53:46 +0000
Message-ID: <19970319195344.AAA26264 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"YomTy1.0.x24.uH4Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5096
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:40 PM 3/19/97 +0000, Michael J. Shaffer wrote:

>>> (1) Does the water molecule (H2O) have a specific resonant frequency?
>>
>>I believe, since it has multiple degrees of freedom, it actually has
>>several resonant frequencies.
>>
>>> (2) If it does,what is that frequency?
>>
>>Someone once posted several, in answer to the classic question about
>>microwave ovens.  This guy's answer was that microwave ovens, in the
>>1-2Ghz region, were too low.
>
>        No, microwave ovens operate at one of the water molecule resonant
>frequencies, at 2.something GHz.  This is a broad (low Q) resonance.  Like
>most molecules, H2O has several resonances.

The microwave oven frequency is 2.45 Gigahertz and heating effect is based
on the conductivity of water or bacon fat not much on an absorption effect.
The microwave or infrared absorption for water starts around 12 Gigahertz
with a peak at 20 Ghz increasing on into the millimeter and infrared
frequencies.

>>
>>> (3) Does atomic hydrogen (H) and atomic oxygen have a specific resonant
>>> frequency?

Atomic oxygen has a very strong absorption peak at 60 Gigahertz,noticeable
at 30 gigahertz and 300 gigahertz. I would think that the 21 Cm hydrogen
radiation from space (1.428 Gigahertz) would indicate some absorption there
for hydrogen.
>
>        Atoms have their spectral lines, which are electronic resonances.
>If you start from cold atoms, the accessible lines of H and O lie in the
>ultraviolet.  If you apply a magnetic field, you can see the nuclear
>magnetic resonance (NMR), usually in the Mz range.
>
>Michael J. Schaffer
>
Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 13:31:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA22090; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:05:53 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:05:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: rgeorge hooked.net
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: light electrons
Cc: vortex-L eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 21:04:42 +0000
Message-ID: <19970319210440.AAA1267 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Lj6Tm2.0.3P5.kK5Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5097
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:52 AM 3/19/97 +0000, Russ George wrote:

>Ponder for me the production and behaviour of "light electrons" in a
collapsing 
>bubble. The bubble is collapsing at > Mach 4. Density is > 13gms/cc. 
>Temperature is >100,000K. The collapse incorporates shock fronts. Eventually a 
>vortex forms in the bubble and indeed this vortex destroys the bubble by 
>crashing through it from one side to the other. This latter event takes place 
>in less than 10ps perhaps down around 100fs.

Try another tact Russ. Suppose that a "light electron" about an angstrom in
diameter and it's antiparticle is mixed in with tap water. The positive unit
is attracting the oxygen ends of the surrounding water molecules and
conversely the negative unit (both have charge +/- e) is attracting the
hydrogen ends of the water molecules. Both are setting at a threshold of
coming into contact and annihilating to a pair of 27.2 ev photons (about
316,000 deg K each).

What you have here is a setup not unlike the nucleation conditions in the
Wilson Cloud Chamber or the Bubble Chamber where passing particles create
free electrons-ions and the water or liquid hydrocarbons attach to these
freed charges and instantly create a visible track in the detecting chambers.

Now you have a site where the classical bubble collapse model that
originally proposed a few atmospheres of pressure for a bubble; p - po =
4S/R that now has gone to megabars (tevadynes/cm^2) of pressure from water
with a density of a gram/cm^3! The electrostatic force between two particles
1/2 angstrom apart is;
k*e^2/r^2 = 8.2E-8 nt, and if you want to figure that in force/unit-area you
come out to about 3.3E21 nt/meter^2.  Just calculate the force that it would
take as in the high pressure physics experiments to halve that spacing or
what pressures it takes to compress a hot fusion fuel pellet from a cubic
centimeter down to a cubic millimeter. Based on those numbers throw out
laser fusion and use the cavitation in your food blender? <g>
>
>So... there is a bubble filled with what appears to be a super dense 
>plasma in very rapid motion. When it stops moving it sees > 10^11 G's. There 
>seems to be ample time for electrons to segregate but everything else is 
>adiabatic?

I think, and purely speculative thinking that annihilation of a light pair
that is in the water is at the bottom of this preposterous model.  <g>
>
>Do you see your "light electrons" in there at some point in time? Where are
the 
>electrons in the collapsing bubble? I fancy a metallic hydrogen plasma is 
>generated at the density of the core of a star. Where are the electrons in a 
>star? It's too hot for them to be attached to any particular nucleus.

The light pairs come after photon production at efficiency X? The stars will
work whether we like it or not, or if the Sun doesn't confirm to our "model"
and is short changing us on neutrinos (which we can't use) rats! <g>

At this point I'm convincing myself that Light Electrons are the reason that
there are D-D, D-T reactions in the "Tokamaks" and 200 million degree
temperatures with 1.5E8 ions/cm^3 could be dropped back to 500 ev or so at
1.5E16 ions/cm^3 and ancillary generation of Light Electron-Positron pairs
could bring about break-even in nothing flat.
>
>Have you ever considered what is called radiative opacity. Where a material is 
>so dense that it is opaque to energetic particles. 

Not Recently,  <G>
>
>Russ George
>

Best Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 14:03:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA26997; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:06:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:06:37 -0800
Date: 19 Mar 97 16:02:46 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Cost of energy
Message-ID: <970319210245_72240.1256_EHB134-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"czmh7.0.ab6.QL5Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5098
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Michael J. Schaffer writes:

     The "cost of energy" is the cost of capturing the energy; processing,
     storing and delivering it to the user; converting it for a useful end
     application; and disposing of the side and end products generated at
     each of these steps. Each of these steps incurs an appreciable cost.

Right, yes. To be precise, I should have written "nearly-zero-cost energy" or
"energy a hundred thousand times cheaper than it is today." I had in mind
something like the topic we used to talk about, and dream about, back in the
1960s and '70s, viz: "What kind of computer programs would we write if every
computer had a megabyte of cheap RAM and a 100 MB disk -- unlimited free
storage!" We knew, of course, that it would not be *literally* free. We meant
it would be tantamount to free by the standards of that time, when a 32 MB RAM
personal computer would have cost $384,000 per month. (They didn't sell memory
back then, they leased it, for $12 per kilobyte per month.)

Of course, any form of energy will cost something. However, in the last 500
years the cost of energy, food, books, e-mail, and computer memory have
plummeted. Energy is now thousands of times cheaper than it used to be. To
give a dramatic example, when my wife was growing up on a farm, the family's
main source of energy was an ox. That is the same source, at the same cost, as
people depended on 5,000 years ago. It takes a terrific amount of money,
energy and time to maintain an ox, and all you get out of it is a few
horsepower, sustained. Now the family has gasoline and electricity, which can
deliver a hundred times more energy at a tiny fraction of the cost, measured
in hours per year of labor. Energy is one of these things that will continue
to fall in price relentlessly, like computer memory or shipping fruit from
South America to Atlanta. The question is, how far can energy prices fall? I
will not go into a detailed analysis here, but I see no reason why the present
world consumption levels should cost more than about $40 million per year. By
today's accounting methods, the only energy cost will be for the fuel itself
(heavy water, or maybe ordinary water), which should cost ~$40 million,
worldwide. (We would need about 4000 metric tons of heavy water, which would
cost $4 billion today, but the major cost of producing heavy water is for
energy.) Most of the steps Mike describes can be eliminated. We will not need
to store or deliver energy with cold fusion, any more than we did with oxen
and firewood. We will generate energy when and where we need it. Disposal is
not an issue. CF produces helium and transmutation in metals. The helium
floats away, and "disposing" of the transmutated metals will probably be
money-making proposition, because it appears that most of them will be worth
more than the Ni or Pd you start with.

Of course, the machinery needed to generate this energy will cost hundreds of
billions of dollars. But I wasn't counting that as part of the "energy cost"
because I assume energy will be built into machines. I mean, for example, a CF
automobile engines will have a small supply of heavy water built in. The
engines will cost less than today's internal combustion engines (ICE), because
they will be simpler and they will not require any pollution control. So,
effectively, the only "energy cost" is the heavy water. In today's accounting
scheme, we do not add in the cost of ICE, toasters, microwave ovens or fax
machine to the total energy bill. In tomorrow's accounting, the energy needed
to run your ICE, toaster or microwave will be built-in, and the overall cost
of the machines will be less than today's models. As Fickett said of the
compact flourescent light: "This is not a free lunch; it is a lunch you are
paid to eat."

Today we have separate, stand-alone machines to generate, store, process and
transmit energy: everything from oil wells and hydroelectric dams, to electric
generators, to high tension power lines, gasoline stations, batteries and
windmills. Tomorrow we can dispense with all of that. I mean every bit, except
one or two heavy water separation plants. (We will not even have to pay to
build the first plants: Ontario Hydro already produces thousands of times more
heavy water than we would need for a CF economy.) In a world powered by CF, I
cannot think of any reason why people would store potential chemical energy,
or transmit electricity, or build any energy infrastructure. What would be the
point? When everything fits nicely into the machines that use the energy, why
bother with an external infrastructure? That would be like keeping hay in your
garage after the ox dies and you buy a car.

I realize this sounds visionary, but it is not. I am anything but a visionary
person. The thing is, I know history. I realize that society has changed
radically, many times, in ways that most people never imagined would be
possible. I have known friends, dead now, who were born in feudal Japan, and
others who were born slaves in the U.S. Their experiences are only a
generation beyond living memory, yet unimaginably different from our own. We
are not at the end of history yet: things can still change beyond recognition
in one lifetime. We can still make jumps as big as the one from oxen to
automobiles, or pens to personal computers. Oil is now so precious we are
willing to go war over it, but in a few years it may be worthless. Once,
nations went to war over commodities like food, water and slave labor. Today
we command the power of a hundred slaves in our automobiles and electric
lights, and our food and water is practically free by the standards of the
past.

In the future every person may consume a million times more energy than we do
today, for a few hundred dollars, just as we now command computer RAM that
would have cost $384,000 per month in 1972. Naturally, we can never consume
that much energy on the earth's surface. The waste heat would damage the
ecosystem! We will move energy intensive industries to places where it will
not matter, like the moon.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 14:04:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA28115; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:14:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:14:44 -0800
Message-Id: <199703192113.NAA23813 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:16:27 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <v01530501af55ef56b3c6 [199.237.131.243]>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"6La5Z1.0.Ct6.3T5Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5099
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

> Date:          Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:35:35 -0900
> To:            vortex-l eskimo.com
> From:          hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
> Subject:       Re:  Autoradiographs
> Reply-to:      vortex-l eskimo.com

> 
> Won't Li+ reduce silver nitrate?  The problem with the H2 is it's not ionized.
> 
> Any direct contact of an electrode containing Li salts with a film emulsion
> is bound to produce some free silver, i.e. expose the film, true?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner          

If you propose a hypothesis that this is the case it is upon you to do the 
very simple confirming experiment. Expounding upon a trivial hypothesis to 
explain some observed effect without having taken even a miniscule step to test 
the hypothesis is pretty lame tending toward complete BS. This is exactly the 
manner in which the original ridiculous idea that hydrogen leaking from the 
cathode was responsible for the x-ray exposures reported. 

You might as well have said Pixie dust, a well known reducing agent, was trod 
upon the film and that explains the exposures. If that's the standards of 
science we attend to then it might as well all be attributed to the will of 
Allah then no one need worry about any responsibility for any thing. The big 
guy is running it all and all is therefore as it is ordained. By that makes 
life simple.




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 14:24:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA01199; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:59:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:59:03 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: PLASMA JOCKEYS
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 21:56:50 +0000
Message-ID: <19970319215648.AAA29148 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZJA0G.0.fI.b66Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5100
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frank Stenger Wrote:

Can't we all just get along?

Full moon coming up Frank. Those monthly bursts of infrared rays reflected
off the moon working on the pineal gland sure make for bio-excitement. Any
horseshoe crabs coming out of Lake Erie this evening? <g>

Then again the apple cider from those orchards around Conneaut should be
fermenting to apple-jack right about now.Picked a few bushels there back
before WW II, Had a bumble bee take exception to my efforts with a hit right
between the eyes. Haven't been right since.  <g>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 14:26:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA03586; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:11:16 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:11:16 -0800
Date: 19 Mar 97 17:08:16 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: We can already destroy the earth
Message-ID: <970319220816_72240.1256_EHB37-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"gD7Vf2.0.yt.2I6Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5101
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Dan Quickert writes:

     . . . a whole lot of people who just don't care about the effects of
     their personal or business actions. The costs of those 'side effects'
     are going to be enormous. If I had a real solution for unlimited 'free
     energy', I'd think long and hard before letting this civilization get
     its hands on it. Perhaps not a proper subject for discussion on this
     list, but it needs to be addressed.

Many people have expressed this point of view, right from the beginning of
cold fusion. Frankly, I do not understand this logic. We can easily destroy
the earth with the technology we already have. We don't even need nuclear
bombs. We are using man's oldest technology, fire, to wipe out vast areas of
the rain forests. Thousands of years ago, the Chinese, Greeks, Romans and even
the Pacific islanders deforested large areas and turned productive crop land
into desert. The destructive 'side effects' of technology in 2000 BC were as
bad as they are today. It just took a little longer to wreak havoc. If people
act irresponsibly, and laws are not established to protect the ecosystem, we
will end up destroying the earth no matter what tools we use. Our only hope is
that people will act wisely; treasure and protect nature. That job will be
infinitely easier with non-polluting cold fusion. We can use this wonderful
new tool to eliminate all pollution and clean up the earth if we choose to, or
we can destroy everything with it. It is up to us. It always has been up to
us.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 14:44:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA05532; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:23:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:23:46 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: rgeorge hooked.net
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: light electrons
Cc: vortex-L eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:23:04 +0000
Message-ID: <19970319222302.AAA11154 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"pgNFB.0.JM1.nT6Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5102
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:45 PM 3/19/97 +0000, you wrote:

>I'd have sent the message via Vortex if I wanted to engage that group in this 
>conversation.

Sorry, but, if you want private consulting, I charge $120/hour plus expenses.

>
>> At this point I'm convincing myself that Light Electrons are 
>the reason that
>> there are D-D, D-T reactions in the "Tokamaks" and 200 million degree
>> temperatures with 1.5E8 ions/cm^3 could be dropped back to 500 ev or so at
>> 1.5E16 ions/cm^3 and ancillary generation of Light Electron-Positron pairs
>> could bring about break-even in nothing flat.
>
>
>But even 1.5E16 ions/cc is pretty sparse compared to my bubble plasma which is 
>at least 6E24 ions/cc. Where are the light electron-positron pairs in the 
>latter case we should have blown up.  The fact remains we see lots of
anomlaous 
>energy but no radiation to speak of.
>
>

There are 3.346E22 molecules in a cubic centimeter of water, twice that many
(6.67E22) hydrogen atoms/cm^3. In solid hydrogen 2.6E22 molecules/cm^3 or
5.2E22 atoms/cm^3.I think you can see how water "compresses" hydrogen.

You are going to need a compressor that will dwarf the pressure in the core
of a "Black Hole" to get 6E24 ions/cc.   <G>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 15:24:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA07059; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:59:02 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:59:02 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC3475.DE72BA50 uzl.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: We can already destroy the earth
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:57:29 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC3475.DE75C790"
Resent-Message-ID: <"KzR5s3.0.Ak1.p-6Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5103
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3475.DE75C790
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jed Rothwell wrote:
------------------
Many people have expressed this point of view, right from the beginning =
of
cold fusion. Frankly, I do not understand this logic. We can easily =
destroy
the earth with the technology we already have. We don't even need =
nuclear
bombs. We are using man's oldest technology, fire, to wipe out vast =
areas of
the rain forests. Thousands of years ago, the Chinese, Greeks, Romans =
and even
the Pacific islanders deforested large areas and turned productive crop =
land
into desert. The destructive 'side effects' of technology in 2000 BC =
were as
bad as they are today. It just took a little longer to wreak havoc. If =
people
act irresponsibly, and laws are not established to protect the =
ecosystem, we
will end up destroying the earth no matter what tools we use. Our only =
hope is
that people will act wisely; treasure and protect nature. That job will =
be
infinitely easier with non-polluting cold fusion. We can use this =
wonderful
new tool to eliminate all pollution and clean up the earth if we choose =
to, or
we can destroy everything with it. It is up to us. It always has been up =
to
us.
-----------------

Well, I agree with everything you said there!

"Frankly, I do not understand this logic.": my conclusion - well it =
isn't actually a conclusion, it is a direction -  is not based on logic, =
it's based on experience, which you cited well enough.

"It just took a little longer to wreak havoc" - exactly! Today the =
destruction can get well underway before anybody can say "uh, hey, =
what's that going to do to the xxxx?", let alone time for our social =
structures to respond. (What we are getting better at is attempting to =
ask the question). When a child is constantly throwing sand at his =
sibling you don't give him a stick -- even though it doesn't make such a =
mess, it's somewhat more sustainable in that sticks grow on trees, and =
it's more efficient at transfer of energy ; and perhaps part of why you =
wouldn't do that is that next time, the sibling would be seriously =
injured or killed before you could intervene.

My point isn't that we should not develop these energy sources, it's =
that we need to be careful with them in the context of the society that =
will use them. Precisely (I think) the conclusion you made?

Dan
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3475.DE75C790
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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==

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3475.DE75C790--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 15:37:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA13067; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:07:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:07:02 -0800
Message-Id: <199703192306.PAA05232 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:09:26 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: light electrons
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <19970319222302.AAA11154 LOCALNAME>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"mD-jd.0.1C3.L67Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5104
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

> >I'd have sent the message via Vortex if I wanted to engage that group in this 
> >conversation.
> 
> Sorry, but, if you want private consulting, I charge $120/hour plus expenses.

That's a bit steep I don't see any evidence of the value. Sorry to bother you I 
won't make the mistake again.  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 17:01:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA21334; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:43:08 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:43:08 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:42:33 +1100 (EST)
From: Martin Sevior <msevior liszt.ph.unimelb.EDU.AU>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Need whiz-bang energy apps
In-Reply-To: <970319143130_72240.1256_EHB106-1 CompuServe.COM>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970320113147.19205B-100000 liszt.ph.unimelb.EDU.AU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"89EZM1.0.ED5.OW8Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5105
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



On 19 Mar 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> To: Vortex
> 
> I am writing an article for a future issue of I.E. about the technological
> potential of a zero cost, unlimited, compact energy source. I have compiled a
> list of gadgets that we could make with such an energy source. I include the
> usual stuff like cars and airplanes that go forever without refueling,
> mid-ocean telephone repeaters, and improved desalination. 


My favourite is beneficial climate and landscape change for Australia. We 
have all these vast areas of desert around dry salt lakes. With enough energy 
and desalination plants those lakes and could be cleared of salt, fresh water
de-salinated from the oceans could be pumped in, and water vapour could 
be pumped into the atmosphere about the lakes. The water vapour would 
precipate out as rain over a vast area, greatly increasing the fertility 
of an area larger than the mid-west of the USA. Food production in that area
could probably support 200 million people. It would require astronomical
amounts of energy.


Perhaps similar scenarios could be envision for the sahara and Gobi 
desert areas but I don't know much about their georaphy to know whether
it would work in those places.

Martin


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 17:20:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA23272; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:01:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:01:50 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:01:19 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703200101.TAA19137 natasha.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: guys on Vortex
Resent-Message-ID: <"ELr0z1.0.Th5.wn8Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5106
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 04:57 PM 3/18/97 -0800, Dan Quickert wrote:

>By the way, I'm pretty new on these lists, and am favorably impressed with
how helpful and collaborative everyone (almost) is. You guys are great!
(well, guys are all I've heard from so far - why's that?)

Male Answer Syndrome, Dan.  There are smart girls on vortex but, of course,
they aren't possessed by this affliction....:-)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 17:57:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA28076; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:41:12 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:41:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703200140.RAA24810 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:42:58 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: guys on Vortex
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199703200101.TAA19137 natasha.eden.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"Rhd_U.0.bs6.sM9Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5107
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Women on Vortex no way, I don't believe it. If it's true we'll have to clean up 
our act damn. 

Russ George
at home with 2 daughters

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 18:07:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA29203; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:50:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:50:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <333097E7.270A interlaced.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:50:32 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy
References: <970319210245_72240.1256_EHB134-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"QdzpT1.0.987.IV9Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5108
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

When I married my wife, I chose to not convert to Catholicism.  I think
I'll choose not to convert to CFism also, even though I'm rather fond of
the little bugger.  I think I'll just hang here on the secular fringes
for a while longer.  Maybe I should go over and talk to Dan Quickert
for a bit.  I see him loitering across the street from the CF church.

Lost soul without portfolio----- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 18:12:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA29462; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:52:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 17:52:22 -0800 (PST)
Date: 19 Mar 97 20:45:34 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Message-ID: <970320014533_72240.1256_EHB128-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"EgfTs.0.GC7.KX9Cp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5109
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

I hate to pick on poor old Mike here, but he addressed the topic I have been
working on for the last few weeks. It is one of my favorites, so I'd like to
add some thoughts. I better not say too much, or people will have no reason to
buy Infinite Energy!

Mike's statement about the costs of "processing, storing and delivering"
energy reminds me of the 1960s keypunch fallacy. Back then, people thought
that you could never keep a grocery store inventory with a computer no matter
how cheap computers got, because it would take so effort to keypunch the data
every time you sell a gallon of milk or a can of cat food. "Even if the
computer is free, the cost of processing, storing and delivering the data is
prohibitive" they might have said. Imagine a keypunch operator in a checkout
line typing inventory numbers on punch cards for every item! As it turned
out, bar code readers were invented by clever people like Evan Ragland. Now
every head of lettuce has those funny little lines on the wrapper. We keep
inventory automatically, in less time than it used to take to ring up the cost
on a register. What does this demonstrate? When a radically new core
technology comes along, it spawns other new, peripheral gadgets, and together
they fix many problems in ways you cannot predicted looking at the core
technology alone. Mike is worried about storing and delivering energy because
he thinks of CF as a one-for-one replacement for today's centrally located
burning coal or fissioning atoms. I assume that cold fusion will spawn new
gadgets like improved thermoelectric chips or tiny steam turbines, and this,
in turn, will do away with the need for centralized electric generation. In
one stroke, it will do away with many of the costs. Mike wrote:

     No new source of "free energy" will escape similar costs. 

. . . because he assumes that energy sources will be used the same way we use
fossil fuel and fission. All computers must be keypunched -- unless we
discover some other way to input data! Of course, the thermoelectric chips
will not be free. At first they will cost much more than the per capita share
of the centralized power generation and distribution network. At first, CF
will be a luxury. But not for long. Another vital lesson of the computer
revolution, and the auto revolution, and many others is: Peripherals Soon Get
Cheap. In 1978, a 12 MB hard disks cost me about $10,000. Today, a 3 GB disk
costs $400. This was "caused by" the sudden drop in silicon based logic and
memory chips. I mean "caused" in the economic sense: it was pushed along by
it. Hard disk miniaturization techniques have little to do with silicon
photolithography, except in the control electronics. Disks call for a
different kind of miniaturization. The point is, people would never have
invested billions in developing tiny, whirling, oxide coated, precision
machines if the microprocessor had not come alone. They will not invest
billions in thermoelectric chips as long as heat remains an expensive
commodity. But when the cost of heat drops by a factor of a million . . .
people will rush to invest in new ways to exploit that heat. They will find
ways to do it without the bother, expense and shortcomings of central power
generation.

Here is one other example of the Peripherals Soon Get Cheap rule. Before the
Model T, small automobile tires cost about $50 each (roughly $700 in 1997
dollars). With the Model T, a mass market appeared, manufacturers found ways
to reduce the price, and small tires still cost less than $50.

We "escape similar costs" by using new technology in new, dissimilar ways,
with new peripherals to optimize the benefits of the core technology (the
microcomputer, or mass-produced automobile). We sidestep the expenses. As Mike
says, coal and petroleum in the ground, wind, and solar energy are "free."
They cost nothing, but exploiting them costs a bunch because they are
inconvenient, difficult to deal with, and dirty. Hot fusion would cost a lot
because the machines are large and complicated, they require central
distribution, and they produce rad waste, which is expensive to clean up.
(They would produce even more rad waste than advanced fission designs,
according to EPRI and Los Alamos.) We escape all these exploitation costs with
CF. It does everything we need with no work, and no additional expense. We
don't extract it or refine it like oil or uranium. It is compact and present
24 hours a day on demand, unlike solar. It does not pollute and it does not
cost anything to decommission or throw away. There is no rad waste. Most of
the costs competing energy systems must bear are eliminated *by the nature of
CF.* Other costs, like conversion of heat to electricity, will be greatly
reduced with new peripheral technology.

There has never been a demand for a simple, cheap, maintenance-free, solid
state thermal electric generator, because the first models would be energy
inefficient, and because they would cause excessive pollution. Today we want a
high efficiency thermal conversion process. We want steam turbines, even
though they are complicated, they require expert attention, and frequent
maintenance. The experts reduce pollution to the lowest feasible levels.
Suppose you develop a 5% efficient, dirt cheap, miniature thermoelectric
generator that can be left to run by itself for 15 years, like a water heater.
NASA will buy a few for their deep space fission TEGs, and that's about it.
Nobody else wants them, because heat is expensive. It would be like developing
an automobile to run on whale oil. Automobiles had to wait for cheap well oil.
They are energy inefficient compared to the railroads they supplanted, but
they are more convenient. CF will be less energy efficient at first, with only
5 or 10% efficient thermoelectric chip, or a 15% efficient miniature
maintenance-free turbine, but it will be more convenient and cheaper to
operate, because the heat will be free. Later on, the capital cost per watt
for thermoelectrics will fall, until it is far lower than the old, centralized
technology. This is analogous to the fact that computer disk storage is now
cheaper than paper, even though it started out more expensive. Long distance
telephone calls are often cheaper than mail, when you take into the cost of
secretarial labor. In the beginning, hard disks and long distance calls had no
advantage except convenience to recommend them. Things start out as luxuries;
then they become expensive necessities; then, eventually, they become cheaper
than the technology they originally supplanted.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 20:04:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA13677; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:50:07 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:50:07 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:44:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970319224306_-1906866455 emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, jseese@gpu.com, CldFusion@aol.com,
        76570.2270 compuserve.com, 72240.1256@compuserve.com,
        zettsjs ml.wpafb.af.mil, fstenger@interlaced.net,
        101544.702 compuserve.com, RVargo1062@aol.com,
        peter itim.org.soroscj.ro, mcfee@xdiv.lanl.gov, CentManGrp@aol.com,
        reed zenergy.com
Subject: Fwd: NASA program
Resent-Message-ID: <"veNEr.0.ZL3.VFBCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5110
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I've been invited to participate in the NASA Lewis program.  Attached are my
proposals.
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    NASA program
Date:    97-03-19 22:40:49 EST
From:    FZNIDARSIC
To:      GeorgeHM,Puthoff
To:      marc.g.millis lerc.nasa.gov
To:      murtha hr.house.gov

Two tasks are included in my proposal.  One of the tasks included is
for two levels of funding, an ultra-low budget or an extensive program.
.................................................................
TASK TITLE

Sono-Fusion
.......................................
Point of contact

fznidarsic aol.com
.............................................................
Objective or Approach

To determine if cavitation can employed to induce nuclear fusion.
Construct cavitation type boiler(s) and study the sono-luminescent effect.
.....................................................................
Relevence

To be used as a space and ground power source.
....................................................................
Duration

One year
.................................................
Task Cost two tiered.

I

The construction of a venturi cavitation type boiler 7 KW in size
in a local welding shop near the residence of Frank Znidarsic.  Tests 
will look for anomalous energy and sono-flashes only.  Cost $50,000
Some heavy water will be purchased.

II

To develop a complete program to study sono-fusion.  Possible 
facilities, The Fusion Studies Lab at UIUC, Puthoff's Institute
for Advanced Study in Austin TX, and Congressman's Jack Murtha's
Concurrent Technologies Co. in Johnstown Pa. The program will include
a small staff.  The work will include measurment of the pressure and 
temperature of the sono-bubbles.  Fusion products will be sought. 
A heavy water system will be designed and tested.  A visit will be made
to Modolva to witness the work of Dr. Yuri Potapov. The construction of
a venturi type (Yusmar), impeller type (Griggs), and a electronic 
type (E-Quest) cavitation boiler will be part of the program.

$500,000
.......................................................................
References

     "Observation of Synchronous Picosecond Sonoluminescence",
      Bradley P Barber and Seth J. Putterman,  NATURE, vol 352, no
      6333, 25 July 91 Page 318-323

      "Sonoluminescence Sheds New Light on Physics"  21st CENTURY
      SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, Vol. 4, Winter 1991 Pages 26-32.

      "Sonoluminescence Sound into light"  SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, Vol
      272, No 2 February 1995, Pg 46-51

      "Sonoluninescence Bubbles Collapse at more than four times the
      speed of sound" INFINITE ENERGY,  Vol 2, #11, 1997

      "Bubbles" David Moon  INFINITE ENERGY, Vol 2, #11, 1997

      "Sonoluminescence as Quantum Vacuum Radiation"  Claudia Eberline
      PHYSICAL REVIEW LETTERS, vol 76, Number 20 May 1996

.....................................................................

Optional 

E Engineers Approach

..........................................................................

.................................................................
TASK II TITLE

Cryogenic zero point energy extraction
.......................................
Point of contact

fznidarsic aol.com
.............................................................
Objective or Approach

To determine if cryogenic superconductive effects can be
employed to generate anomalous electrical energy by means
of gravitational couplings.  A cryostat will be constructed. 
This cryostat will contain a disc of superconductive ceramic
material, sensors, and associated electrical connections.
.....................................................................
Relevence

To be used as a space and ground power source.
....................................................................
Duration

One year
.................................................
Task Cost 

To develop a program to study the energetics of any gravito-magnetic
effects within a superconductive system.  Possible facilities, The
Fusion Studies Lab at UIUC, Puthoff's Institute for Advanced Study 
in Austin, and Congressman's Jack Murtha's Concurrent Technologies Co.
in Johnstown Pa. The program will include a staff of three.  The work
will include measurment of gravitational shielding and a search
for anomalous electrical energy.  Fusion products will be sought. 
A visit will be made to the Marshall Space Flight Center to witness 
the work of Dr. David Noever.  

$250,000
.......................................................................
References

"The Zero Point Interaction", The Journal of New Energy vol.
 No. 2 1996 Frank Znidarsic

"The Genesis of the Universe and Zero Point Energy", Infinite
 Energy Vol 1 No 5 and 6 1996, Frank Znidarsic


"A Possibility of Gravitational Force Shileding in Bulk YBa2Cu307-X
  Superconductor,  Physica C vol 203 1992, E. Podkletnov and R.Nieminen

"Gravitational Effects on the Magnetic Attenuation of Superconductors",
 Physical Review B Condensed matter vol 46, no 9 Sept 1992
 Ning Li and D.G. Torr

"Theroetical Analysis of Reported Weak Gravitational Shielding Effect"
 Report No MPI-PhT/95-44, May 1995, The Max Planck Indstiute
 G. Modanese

Patent application 01/31/86 #06/824,530, Frank Znidarsic

........................................................

Approach Engineers



     

    

.....................................................................

Optional 

E Engineers Approach

..........................................................................




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 20:46:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA09980; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:34:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:34:27 -0800
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:33:53 +1100 (EST)
From: Martin Sevior <msevior liszt.ph.unimelb.EDU.AU>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: NASA program
In-Reply-To: <970319224306_-1906866455 emout07.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970320152809.8706A-100000 liszt.ph.unimelb.EDU.AU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"THMaf1.0.sR2.IvBCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5111
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Congratulations Frank! I have to say though I have to write much longer 
proposals to get funded from the Australian Research Council.

Good luck with your work (and don't answer questions from the National 
Enquirer! )

Martin Sevior

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 19 21:34:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA17061; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 21:24:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 21:24:00 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Need whiz-bang energy apps
From: Hoyt Stearns<hoyt isus.wierius.com>
Reply-To: hoyt isus.wierius.com
Sender: hoyt isus.wierius.com
Originator: hoyt isus.wierius.com
Transport-Options: /delivery
Content-Type: text
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 21:39:00 GMT
Message-ID:  <9703192140.aa02998 wierius.com>
Resent-Message-ID: <"q4XEO1.0.PA4.jdCCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5112
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Hi, Jed wrote:

	
	I am writing an article for a future issue of I.E. about the technological
	...
	energy, please e-mail it to me or post it here.
	
	
I made a blue sky list a while ago for fun, I'll try
to remember some of the goodies:

Heated streets for snow melting

Red hot wire fences or garden edging

Boiling swimming pool disinfection

Disinfection of city water by boiling or
	steam distillation.

plasma destruction of pollution in air, liquid, or solid.

Perpetually aloft hot air balloons, or floating
	residences or towns suspended therefrom.

	high intensity arc lights suspended over
	a city to provide light and warmth

	Broadcast antennas suspended from hot air balloons
	(or perpetually running helicopters).

Large building design radically changed--
	use of air pressure support or heated lifting sections,
	or inertial fluid flow support.


Multi-megawatt direct broadcast satellites.

Cars that you don't have to park, their GPS receivers
just keep them moving 'til they're called back.

	Same for helicopters.

	Special cars with lift fans to park them up
	in the air

The car's air conditioner runs all the time if needed
	parked or not.  Same for a food refrigerator inside.

Housing designs changed radically--no insulation, lots of
	ventilation etc.
	
Radical changes in appliance design, back to low efficiency!

Radical changes in aircraft design, much heavier, smaller
propellers or turbine outlets-- no need for aerodynamic
efficiency except for noise reasons.
Iceing never a problem--all airfoils are heated.

Helicopters using pressure jet principle with
compressor inside the fuselage.

Supersonic transport much more practical.
	--Sonic boom elimination by superheat leading edges
		or air ionization or dissociation.

Turbine engines much cheaper with lower temperature
	hot sections.

Water from rocks or condensation from air.

Hydrocarbon stocks synthesized from CO2 and water in air.

Thermal oil extraction (not that you'd need much anymore).

All that work on Laptop computer efficiency down the drain.
Disk drive stays on all the time, backlighting is bright all the time,
High power fast microprocessor and logic etc.

Tunnelling or well drilling by melting (subterrene).

Construction materials made on site by melting local
rocks etc.

Many elements obtained from sea water by electrolysis and
	other energetic methods.

Best Regards,
--
Hoyt A. Stearns jr.,  President,     International Society of Unified Science|
4131 E. Cannon Dr. Phoenix AZ 85028  Advancing Dewey B. Larson's Reciprocal  |
hoyt isus.wierius.com       fax 996 9088   System- a unified physical theory |
voice *82 602 996-1717   http://infox.eunet.cz/interpres/sr/                 |
*****************************************************************

Shouldn't we face reality?
Sometimes people say,"Well, shouldn't I face reality?" We say, no, 
NEVER DO THAT!!!! Never face reality unless it is perfect in every 
way.       Calendar-Hicks-pg 537.
*****************************************************************

"I've been rich and I've been poor--
Rich is better"
*****************************************************************
 
If the facts do not conform to your theory, they must be disposed of.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 06:12:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA05544; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:03:23 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:03:23 -0800
Date: 20 Mar 97 09:01:47 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Whiz-bang energy apps
Message-ID: <970320140147_72240.1256_EHB76-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"uSi6C1.0.XM1.fEKCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5113
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

People have offered many great ideas, both here and by private e-mail. Thank
you, one and all!

Many of these ideas can be found in Clarke's "Profiles of the Future." Some
would require the development of "peripheral" technology which would be as
challenging as CF itself. For example:

     Cars that you don't have to park, their GPS receivers just keep them
     moving 'til they're called back.

That requires advanced computer intelligence to prevent the cars from running
down small children and old ladies. CF and GPS alone are not sufficient. Then
again, who needs all those kids and old ladies?

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 06:31:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA09565; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:20:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:20:36 -0800
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:20:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Cost of Energy: True cost is people's time and expertise.
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970320140554.14532A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"rxkTh3.0.HL2.oUKCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5114
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians,

For the love of humanity just remember this: you can harness, exploit or 
enslave nature but you can't do the same to humans.

Free energy: pay for brains behind it via patents, pay for engineers who 
develop it. Pay for guys who maintain it.

This fits in nicely with my politcal views (oh God! It's election time in
England) of small government, low taxes...

Why is it right to redistribute wealth (and hence jobs) industrialists
create?  The industrialist by his track record knows how to create wealth
and balance books. What qualification does a politican have apart from
being able to modulate a stream of rectal air. (God damn he's angry!). 

Do you really want to let these sanctimonius, supercillious types say 
they can do it better than you!!

'If you can make one heap of all your winnings
 And risk it on one turn of pitch and toss,
 And lose, and start again at your beginnings
 And never breathe a word about your loss'

R. Kipling

Does that say anything about white elephants such as hot fusion? Does this
say anything about cushy estab. types who mock you (or worse, much
worse)? I'm sure many Vortexians operate on a shoe-string and get results
before they take anyone's money. 

Lurking most days.
Back to work,
Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 06:35:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA27085; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970320142803.00d83a1c mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:28:03 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Fogal Transistor Manufacturer?
Resent-Message-ID: <"thJE63.0.6d6.uWKCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5115
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Things are looking better for the Fogal Transistor.  
There might be a manufacturer picking it up and making them.  
It was a result of the message to this group.

Hopefully that would mean they would be available for purchase then 
by us to try out on various things.  Will require some time of course.

http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/fogal_device/

Gary Hawkins 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 06:37:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA27617; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:26:20 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:26:20 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:25:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re. Cost of energy. Correction: 'Exploit' used in modern 'Notorious' sense. Null mesg.
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970320142345.14532B-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"ebMsD3.0.Jl6.1aKCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5116
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 08:39:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA11030; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:20:01 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:20:01 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:19:16 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970320111915_1682046062 emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: NASA program
Resent-Message-ID: <"3mZw_.0.Ei2.kEMCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5117
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is only the first part of the proposal process.  Much more will have to
follow.

Frank

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 08:44:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA12605; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:28:55 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:28:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:47:21 +0000
Message-ID: <19970320134719.AAA26979 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"JEvwD.0.i43.0NMCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5119
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Going through my newly acquired, Marks' Standard Handbook For Mechanical
Engineers, 10th (80th anniversary) Edition, I came across an energy
converter that stated:

"Two separate streams of water coming from the same reservoir,in falling
are allowed to break up into droplets. At the breakup points, each stream
is surrounded by a short metal cylinder. Each cylinder is connected
electrically to a screen at the bottom of the opposite stream. 
High potential differences are produced between the two metal cylinders."

Sounds like an interesting thing to do with a pump, some pvc pipe and
a reservoir. How much mass do the *Electrons* have?  <g>

A similar effect for the vapor&electrical charges of a boiling liquid
that uses a condenser and electron collecting screens. Cute, huh?

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 08:49:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA01165; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:24:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:24:15 -0800
From: kirk.shanahan srs.gov
Message-Id: <199703201621.AA18939 gateway1.srs.gov>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Water heaters
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Resent-Message-ID: <"NQUbb3.0.3I.jIMCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5118
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mitchel wrote:

>At 11:57 AM 3/19/97 -0400, Kirk Shanahan wrote:
    {{snip}}
>>Saying "Where's the water heater?" is just a shorthand notation.
>>
>
>
>  "Where's the water heater?" is shorthand for either
>congenital, inherited, or otherwise induced myopia.
>
    Really??  Gosh, I guess I'm glad I always ask for the self-powered
    attack Coke machine proposed by S. King...


>   Obviously there is a water heater.  The excess heat usually configured
>to heat the water.  The water is heated, and if the
>skeptics want coupling to something else, it ought be their
>eyes and hands to the vast literature of this field.
>
>
     In a limited sense you are correct.  However, I see a brief expansion
     of the shorthand is necessary again.  Asking for the "water heater"
     implies there is an actual commercial product in the plans.  That in
     turn implies the inventor has developed the benchtop concept into a
     prototype, interested investors in it, and proceeded into production.
     I think you can see that the shorthand question encompasses a lot.

>--------------------------------------------------
>
>>I think it is a valid question to be asked of those who eschew the
>>scientific approach to validating cold fusion.
>>
>>The equivalent question to those who do not is: "Where are the
>>publications?"
>>
>
>
> Asking "Where are the publications?" corroborates the above.
>There have been thousands of publications, with several
>hundred positives.
>
     Gee, I wish someone would point them out to me...I've been
     looking for 18 months now...oh wait!...you're using shorthand
     also aren't you...you mean _claims_ to positive results.

>  Many are posted at the Cold Fusion Times web site
>at url  http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
>

     Just to be sure, I hopped over to your page and checked again.
     I don't claim to have read 100% of the CF field, in fact I have
     self-limited myself to F&P type work, including the PPC.  But
     of the references you quote I have hit 14 of 18 papers, 4 of the
     9 books you list, and only 1 of the conference proceedings (the
     ICCF4/Fusion Tech version).

     BTW, you need to update your listing.  Reifenschweiler has a full
     paper now...Fus. Tech. 30 (1996), p. 261. And I'd recommend adding
     Oriani (Fus. Tech. 30 (1996), p. 281) as well...he's a highly
     prestigious materials scientist.
>
> Finally, I agree with Kirk that too many skeptics of cold fusion
>appear to substitute their own hot air for diligence and
>scholarship, either in the literature stack or their labs
>or both.
>

      Did I say that??  Seems a tad out of character...I'd probably say
      that it applies to both sides of the fence actually...

>  Hope that helps.
>   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

Kirk Shanahan  {{My opinions...noone else's}}

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 09:08:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA15978; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:48:59 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:48:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b01af57167f369d [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:50:30 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Resent-Message-ID: <"_a4QO1.0.av3.ufMCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5120
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed wrote:
>.. Hot fusion .....they produce rad waste, which is expensive to clean up.
>(They would produce even more rad waste than advanced fission designs,
>according to EPRI and Los Alamos.)

   This statement is contrary to scientific fact.  The fission reaction
produces 'fission products'.  They are radioactive.  One joule of fission
energy produces a given amount of radioactive product.  Period.  Fusion
produces only one radioactive product--neutrons.  Their half life is about
20 minutes.  Would that this were the end of the story.  In fact, most of
the neutrons are captured in the nuclei of the surrounding reactor
structure before they decay.  Some of the new nuclei are unstable
(radioactive), so fusion produces 'secondary radiation'.  Unlike fission
products, secondary radiation is a design parameter; it depends on the
choice of materials used to build the reactor.  If I may dream like Jed for
a moment, I would postulate that we will have many new forms of carbon--not
just amorphous, graphite, diamond, fibers, buckeyballs-- so that I could
build my reactor completely from carbon.  Neutron activation of carbon is
negligible.  Voila, no radioactivity!  And carbon withstands high
temperature, too.  Silicon and a few other elements also have very low
activation, so my range of choice is even greater.  In practice, though,
choosing from among today's engineering materials, one cannot avoid some
activation.  However, one can greatly reduce it compared with naive
materials choices.  Such a fusion reactor would produce 1/100 the
radioactivity of fission or less for the same power.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 09:26:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA18451; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:09:37 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:09:37 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33317E4A.612A rt66.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:13:30 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: 74750.1231 compuserve.com, rmforall@rt66.com, rollo@artvark.com,
        vortex-l eskimo.com, lucille@telis.org, dnovak@uriacc.uri.edu,
        key rt66.com, catala@scils.Rutgers.EDU, 72507.3443@compuserve.com,
        cmurray uh.edu
Subject: About Edge Foundation, Inc.
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4618153B4ABB"
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ru3nk1.0.DW4.EzMCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5121
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------4618153B4ABB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.edge.org/about_edge.html

--------------4618153B4ABB
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="about_edge.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="about_edge.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.edge.org/about_edge.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.edge.org/about_edge.html">

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>About Edge Foundation, Inc.</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">

<CENTER>
<TABLE WIDTH="550" BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="10">

<TR><TD VALIGN="TOP" WIDTH="35%">

<FONT SIZE="+2">Edge<BR>
Foundation, Inc.</FONT><P>

<FONT SIZE="-1" FACE="COURIER NEW, COURIER" COLOR="#000055">
This Web site is 
dedicated to the Memory of<BR>
<A HREF="pagels_dedication.html">Heinz R. Pagels</A><BR>
(1939 - 1988)
<P>

<A HREF="about_site.html">About This Site</A><P>
<HR WIDTH="100%">

<P>
The mandate of EDGE Foundation is to promote inquiry into and discussion of intellectual, philosophical, artistic, and literary issues, as well as to work for the intellectual and social achievement of society. EDGE Foundation, Inc. is a nonprofit private
 operating foundation under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.</FONT>
<P>



</TD><TD VALIGN="TOP">


<TABLE WIDTH="90%">
<TR>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER"><A HREF="/">Home</A></TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER">|</TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER"><A HREF="/3rd_culture/">Third Culture</A></TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER">|</TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER"><A HREF="/digerati/">Digerati</A></TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER">|</TD>
<TD ALIGN="CENTER"><A HREF="/discourse/">Reality Club</A></TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<HR><P>

<FONT SIZE="+1">Edge Foundation, Inc., was established in 1988 as an outgrowth of a group known as The Reality Club. Its informal membership includes of some of the most interesting minds in the world.</FONT><P>

Since 1981, The Reality Club has had a simple criterion for choosing speakers. We look for people whose creative work has expanded our notion of who and what we are. A few Reality Club speakers are bestselling authors or are famous in the mass culture. Mo
st are not. Rather, we encourage work on the cutting edge of the culture, and the investigation of ideas that have not been generally exposed. We are interested in "thinking smart;" we aren't interested in the anesthesiology of "wisdom." The motto of the 
Club is "to arrive at the edge of the world's knowledge, seek out the most complex and sophisticated minds, put them in a room together, and have them ask each other the questions they are asking themselves."<P>

We charge the speakers to represent an idea of reality by describing their creative work, their lives, and the questions they are asking themselves. We also want them to share with us the boundaries of their knowledge and experience and to respond to the 
challenges, comments, criticisms, and insights of the members. The Reality Club is a point of view, not just a group of people. Reality is an agreement. The constant shifting of metaphors, the intensity with which we advance our ideas to each other  this
 is what intellectuals do. The Reality Club draws attention to the larger context of intellectual life.<P>

Speakers seldom get away with loose claims. Maybe a challenging question will come from a member who knows an alternative theory that really threatens what the speaker had to say. Or a member might come up with a great idea, totally out of left field, tha
t only someone outside the speaker's field could come up with. This creates a very interesting dynamic.<P>

The most challenging evenings are when the speakers present the questions they are asking themselves. This is in contrast to evenings during which the speakers discuss questions they have already answered. In communications theory information is not defin
ed as data or input but rather as "a difference that makes a difference.'' It is this level I hope the speakers will achieve. We  want speakers who are willing to take their ideas into the bull ring.<P>

The Reality Club encourages people who can take the materials of the culture in the arts, literature, and science and put them together in their own way. We live in a mass-produced culture where many people, even many established cultural arbiters limit t
hemselves to secondhand ideas, thoughts, and opinions. The Reality Club consists of individuals who create their own reality and do not accept an ersatz, appropriated reality. Our members are out there doing it rather than talking about and analyzing the 
people who are doing it.<P>

The more than one hundred and fifty individuals who have made presentations at Reality Club meetings and the more recent EDGE Seminars include a wide range of people in the arts and sciences: actor Ellen Burstyn; philosopher Daniel C. Dennett; scientists 
Richard Dawkins, Freeman Dyson, Niles Eldredge, Murray Gell-Mann, Stephen Jay Gould, Stewart Kauffman, Benoit Mandelbrot, Lynn Margulis, and George Williams; psychologists Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, Howard Gardner, Steven Pinker, and Roger Schank; artists G
retchen Bender, Peter Halley, April Gornick, and Gary Stephan; poets Michael McClure, Paul Mariani, and Gerd Stern; religious scholars Richard Baker-roshi, Elaine Pagels, and Robert Thurman; editor Steven Levy; social commentators Betty Friedan, Paul Kras
sner, Naomi Wolf, and the late Abbie Hoffman; writers Annie Dillard, Ken Kesey, Steven Levy, and Mark Mirsky.<P>

The Reality Club is different from The Algonquin, The Apostles, The Bloomsbury Group, or The Club, but it offers the same quality of intellectual adventure. Perhaps the closest resemblance is to the early nineteenth-century Lunar Society of Birmingham, an
 informal club of the leading cultural figures of the new industrial age  James Watt, Erasmus Darwin, Josiah Wedgewood, Joseph Priestly, Benjamin Franklin. In a similar fashion, The Reality Club is an attempt to gather together those who are exploring th
e themes of the post-industrial age. <P>

The Reality Club is not just a group of people. I see it as the constant shifting of metaphors, the advancement of ideas, the agreement on, and the invention of, reality. Intellectual life is The Reality Club.<P>

<A HREF="/3rd_culture/bios/brockman.html"><I>--John Brockman</I></A></TD></TR>

</TABLE>

</CENTER>

</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------4618153B4ABB--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 09:32:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA10146; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:17:08 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:17:08 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b02af571b6a5e64 [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:18:47 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Resent-Message-ID: <"uzqNl1.0.OU2.I4NCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5122
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed wrote:
>I hate to pick on poor old Mike here, but he addressed the topic
   Yes, 55 years have killed a lot of my imagination.  Sad, but true.
Also, I've had to build too many experiments that actually had to function.
Reality can be brutal.  Eventually, even human brains get the message.
   Still, dreaming has its place.  Without it I think we'd give up far too
easily.

[snip]
>
> I assume that cold fusion will spawn new
>gadgets like improved thermoelectric chips or tiny steam turbines.....

   My point, too, in that we both recognize that most modern energy uses
demand 'high grade' energy--rotary motion or electrical energy.  This
conversion costs money--some mix of capital, operation, maintenaince and
decommissioning.  We have been converting heat into high grade energy for
over 2 centuries, and there is a great market pull for improved turbines,
thermoelectrics, and other converters of any kind.  Yet, we do not have
them.  This is mainly because of the limitations of known materials (high
temperature strength and corrosion resistance for turbines; high Seebeck
coef with low thermal conductivity and high electrical conductivity for
thermoelectrics).  When personal computers came along, semiconductors and
magnetic recording were still rather young fields, so extensive improvement
could still be made.  In contrast, materials for thermal power conversion
have been INTENSIVELY researched and developed for a long time.  Therefore,
I predict there will be only incremental progress in this field, unless
there is a fundamental breakthrough in solid state science that enables new
materials technologies.  Support basic research.

   BTW, thermonuclear fusion has negligible fuel cost--heavy water and
lithium (familiar?).  The dominant cost will be capital.  If new materials
permit improved thermal energy conversion or better reactor design, then
thermonuclear fusion will benefit, along with many other energy
technologies.

   I will concede that the smallness of nuclear cross sections seems to
irrevocably dictate that thermonuclear fusion devices will be large.  So, I
hang out on Vortex, to try to learn how we might do better.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 10:16:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA14591; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:51:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:51:47 -0800
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:51:33 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703201751.LAA17928 natasha.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Kelvin GeneratorConverter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"_upLn.0.vZ3.oaNCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5123
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 13:47 3/20/97 +0000, Fred S wrote:

>"Two separate streams of water coming from the same reservoir,in falling
>are allowed to break up into droplets. At the breakup points, each stream
>is surrounded by a short metal cylinder. Each cylinder is connected
>electrically to a screen at the bottom of the opposite stream. 
>High potential differences are produced between the two metal cylinders."

Lord Kelvin invented this one.  I've built several...my first at age 13!
(with considerable help from my father).  As static generators go, they're
pretty feeble...but it's intriguing to see static charges coming from water
movements.  If it's well insulated and you let the thing run long enough,
charge builds up high enough that the electrostatic repulsion will cause the
streams of drops to deflect entirely away from their cups creating a
considerable mess.

Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 10:34:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA19776; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:19:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:19:27 -0800
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:19:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost, high grade energy
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970320181249.14929A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"Tyk6O3.0.sq4.i-NCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5124
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortex,

ref. previous msg. about high grade energy.

Agree about how now we value high grade energy.

When we have limitless energy, it will just be a question of using it in a
cleverer manner. Energy efficiency is still important - why build umpteen
power stations when less will do - less maintainance cost, land use. 

I proposed a self irrigating artifical soil with my technology. Here no 
high grade energy is needed to separate water from say seawater. It just 
kind of diffuses across by hygroscopcity and then separation by 
semi-permeable membranes. You see I don't need to boil water then cool 
it. Nature does the work for you.

There's always a way to exploit some phenomenom.

Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 11:47:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA04517; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:28:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:28:13 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:27:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert I. Eachus" <eachus spectre.mitre.org>
Message-Id: <199703201927.OAA16413 spectre.mitre.org>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
In-reply-to: <199703201621.AA18939 gateway1.srs.gov> (kirk.shanahan@srs.gov)
Subject: Re: Water heaters
Resent-Message-ID: <"zr7381.0.T61.B_OCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5125
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   kirk.shanahan srs.gov said:

   > In a limited sense you are correct.  However, I see a brief
   > expansion of the shorthand is necessary again.  Asking for the
   > "water heater" implies there is an actual commercial product in
   > the plans.  That in turn implies the inventor has developed the
   > benchtop concept into a prototype, interested investors in it,
   > and proceeded into production.  I think you can see that the
   > shorthand question encompasses a lot.

   And how does the CETI kit not qualify?  Because it is intended for
transmutation not heat production?

   Okay, so your question translates into, "When does the next CETI kit
ship."

					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 12:51:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA04193; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:59:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:59:47 -0800
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/0003B0FF xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>,
        Vortex-L
	 <Vortex-L eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:58:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bIn3e2.0.R11.nSPCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5126
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Frederick
Your talking about tribo-electricity, where friction of one type
or another separates charges. Gasoline is a particular problem.
Lots of boats and cars have caught fire from it. The hose must
have a grounded metal end, and touch a ground from the
vessel the gas is filling. Even gas cans on an insulated pickup
bed have caused fires.
Hank Scudder
 ----------
From: Frederick J. Sparber
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Date: Thursday, March 20, 1997 5:47AM


Vortexians:

Going through my newly acquired, Marks' Standard Handbook For Mechanical
Engineers, 10th (80th anniversary) Edition, I came across an energy
converter that stated:

"Two separate streams of water coming from the same reservoir,in falling
are allowed to break up into droplets. At the breakup points, each
stream
is surrounded by a short metal cylinder. Each cylinder is connected
electrically to a screen at the bottom of the opposite stream.
High potential differences are produced between the two metal
cylinders."

Sounds like an interesting thing to do with a pump, some pvc pipe and
a reservoir. How much mass do the *Electrons* have?  <g>

A similar effect for the vapor&electrical charges of a boiling liquid
that uses a condenser and electron collecting screens. Cute, huh?

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 13:21:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12010; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 12:43:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 12:43:31 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:42:48 +0000
Message-ID: <19970320204246.AAA22416 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"afl2h3.0.ax2.o5QCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5127
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:18 PM 3/20/97 +0000, Michael J. Shaffer wrote:
>
>   Yes, 55 years have killed a lot of my imagination.  Sad, but true.

Take it from someone 9 years your senior Michael, it's kinda fun to 
watch the perpetual "reinvention of the wheel". Especially for use by
an emerging society that has to have a plethora of gadgets in order to
get enough exercise to burn off those fat asses.

At least when Jed's in-law oxen were working, his in-laws were getting
a workout also.

About the only real promise I see with things going the way 
they are, are "virtual reality helmets" so that future generations can
enjoy the good life that we had (for the most part), vicariously. <G> 
  
>[snip]
>>
>> I assume that cold fusion will spawn new
>>gadgets like improved thermoelectric chips or tiny steam turbines.....
>
>   My point, too, in that we both recognize that most modern energy uses
>demand 'high grade' energy--rotary motion or electrical energy.

Here you are talking "gas-buggy" and 5,000 megawatt boom-box speakers.

>This conversion costs money--some mix of capital, operation, maintenaince 
>and decommissioning.  We have been converting heat into high grade energy for
>over 2 centuries, and there is a great market pull for improved turbines,
>thermoelectrics, and other converters of any kind.

Only up to the time that styrofoam insulation and cups were invented. 
Now all one needs for that well insulated socially-engineered cubical,
is a ventilating fan.

>In contrast, materials for thermal power conversion
>have been INTENSIVELY researched and developed for a long time.  Therefore,
>I predict there will be only incremental progress in this field, unless
>there is a fundamental breakthrough in solid state science that enables new
>materials technologies.  Support basic research.

Yes, but in the areas of environmental-behavioral science in a world 
with over 5 billion souls that are about to go the way of the dinosaur 
if the excesses catering to the spoiled-brat mentality are not brought 
under control, ie., less worship of science and the internet in schools
and more emphasis on basic (secular is fine) values.
>
>BTW, thermonuclear fusion has negligible fuel cost--heavy water and
>lithium (familiar?).  The dominant cost will be capital.  If new materials
>permit improved thermal energy conversion or better reactor design, then
>thermonuclear fusion will benefit, along with many other energy
>technologies.
>
>I will concede that the smallness of nuclear cross sections seems to
>irrevocably dictate that thermonuclear fusion devices will be large.  So, I
>hang out on Vortex, to try to learn how we might do better.

Go Solar. That thermonuclear reactor setting at a safe distance of
93 million miles, bathing the Earth with 12,000 quads/day (the present
world production and use is less than one quad/day). With more efficient
boom box speakers we could cut that in half.  <G>

>
>Michael J. Schaffer
>PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
>Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156



Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 14:30:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA19462; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:34:08 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 13:34:08 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:33:24 +0000
Message-ID: <19970320213322.AAA20128 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"fVH902.0.wl4.FrQCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5128
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

My apologies to Jed for the typo-punctuation error.

Regards,       Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 14:39:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA22991; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:19:04 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:19:04 -0800 (PST)
From: kirk.shanahan srs.gov
Message-Id: <199703202216.AA24454 gateway1.srs.gov>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RRe:R.e[2]: Water heaters
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Resent-Message-ID: <"xYS7Z3.0.6d5.LVRCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5129
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


     
Robert I. Eachus said:

>And how does the CETI kit not qualify?  Because it is intended for
>transmutation not heat production?
     

    Well, if I presented you with a 19th century perpetual motion machine
    and its associated explanation(s), would you consider the fact that
    I did so proof of the ideas?  If I could sell a million (or maybe 
    even a thousand units, maybe yes.  But if everyone who cared to 
    closely examine the claims decided the unit didn't work as billed,
    I wouldn't count that as a success.

    So far, there are significant objections to the claims offered to
    explain the observation of extra elements appearing on some of the 
    cell's beads.  Those people buying it are doing so to test the unit.
    And CETI says they are selling it to help in validating their claims.
    I'd say the jury is still out.
     
   
   >Okay, so your question translates into, "When does the next CETI kit
   >ship."

    Essentially yes, when you take the "inventor's approach", instead of
    the "scientist's approach", the marketplace is the test ground.  The 
    RIFEX kit is still in the earliest stages of that test.  Time will 
    tell...

Kirk Shanahan  {{My opinions...noone else's}}
     

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 17:06:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA21319; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:54:13 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:54:13 -0800
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970321005422.0066d808 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:54:22 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"V4CeP1.0.1D5.pmTCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5130
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>>  The x-ray efficiency for an 
electron at voltage V striking a target of atomic number Z, is 1.3E-9*V*Z.
So for Pd at V = 5.0E6, eff = 1.3E-9*5.0E6*46 = 0.30. So if you were getting
5 watts of heat from a reaction where the light electron formed small
hydrogen that went into the palladium and caused a tnansmutation of some
sort, whereupon the light electron is expelled from the new compound nucleus
carrying possibly tens of Mev's of relativistic kinetic energy, what would
be your thoughts on all of this energy being dissipated as heat with no
ionizing radiation signature?
Keeping in mind that the water and other materials in the makeup of the "cell"
have different efficiency for eff.= 1.3E-9*V*Z.<<

Hi Frederick,
        After admittedly only about three minutes of thought:
        What you call x-ray efficiency has the same units as energy loss
through an absorptive medium.  Specifically, radiative energy loss should be
in analogy with classical electrodynamics:

        (dE_r/dx) =~NEZ(Z+1)q^4[4*ln(2E/mc^2) - 4/3]/137*m^2c^4 

where E is in units of MeV and Z is atomic number, m is the mass of the
charged particle with charge q and c is the speed of light.  
        Because the square of the mass of the particle appears in the
denominator, it is clear that lighter particles will have higher radiative
losses.
        So it looks to me that your formula is interpreted backwards, and
that light particles will radiate more than heavy ones.  So your particles
should produce copious brehmsstrahlung which may or may not be absorbed in
the cell depending on what the energy spectrum looks like, but in any case
would definitely be observable by a variety of techniques.
        But in any case, there are no credible reports of "normal" cold
fusion cells producing copious ionizing or non-iodizing radiation.  There
are many many groups around the world trying to detect radiation signatures
from cold fusion cells and they don't see anything like what you're proposing.
        So my answer is "no." Cold fusion cells do not produce high amounts
of electromagnetic radiation, and certainly not in amounts that are anywhere
commensurate with observed excess heat.  

Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo
        

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 17:36:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA23454; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:10:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:10:02 -0800
Message-Id: <199703210109.RAA20409 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:12:36 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Kelvin GeneratorConverter.
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199703201751.LAA17928 natasha.eden.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"iaAJj1.0.Ok5.e_TCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5131
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hey me too. I won my first science fair prize for lighting a light bulb with an 
electrostatic generator using drops of water to power the light bulb. Lot's of 
fun good thing I had a scientist for a dad.

Russ George

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 17:36:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA25997; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:21:59 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:21:59 -0800
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970321012209.006679dc sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:22:09 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re:  Hot Fusion progress
Resent-Message-ID: <"3VOkN3.0.0M6.pAUCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5132
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

        I would like to echo Mike Schaffer's comments (in various threads)
concerning the role of hot fusion.  
        There is no reason to compare cold fusion and hot fusion except for
the name.  They are different processes, not in competition for the same
budgets, any more than cold fusion competes with electrochemistry or
anything else (if they were competing, than the recent cuts in hot fusion
should have been a windfall for cold fusion, right?). 
       Moreover, as a society we spend peanuts on hot fusion or advanced
research in general.  Heck, our society probably spend more on science
fiction movies than on science!  Give me a red pen and the authority to
assist the president in his 1998 budget submission, and I guarantee I'll
find enough money to fund hot fusion, cold fusion, warm fusion and a whole
bunch of other cool stuff. 
        I'd like to fly on the space shuttle some day. I'd like to visit the
space station. Better yet, I'd like to have a fusion powered upper stage so
we could put space stations in orbit around Pluto.  This alone is sufficient
reason to continue to develop hot fusion technology.  It's money well spent,
and professional researchers ought to focus on expanding the role of
advanced research in society, rather than attacking each other's projects.
        It's not like there is no other technology worth funding.  Cold
fusion researchers have enough problems of their own without going out of
their way to make enemies in other fields!  

Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo
        
                 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 18:12:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA31692; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:59:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:59:10 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:58:07 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321015805.AAA18476 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"0cFRZ3.0.2l7.ijUCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5134
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:54 AM 3/21/97 +0000, Elliot Kennel wrote:
>Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>>>  The x-ray efficiency for an 
>electron at voltage V striking a target of atomic number Z, is 1.3E-9*V*Z.
>So for Pd at V = 5.0E6, eff = 1.3E-9*5.0E6*46 = 0.30. So if you were getting
>5 watts of heat from a reaction where the light electron formed small
>hydrogen that went into the palladium and caused a tnansmutation of some
>sort, whereupon the light electron is expelled from the new compound nucleus
>carrying possibly tens of Mev's of relativistic kinetic energy, what would
>be your thoughts on all of this energy being dissipated as heat with no
>ionizing radiation signature?
>Keeping in mind that the water and other materials in the makeup of the "cell"
>have different efficiency for eff.= 1.3E-9*V*Z.<<
>
>Hi Frederick,
>        After admittedly only about three minutes of thought:
>        What you call x-ray efficiency has the same units as energy loss
>through an absorptive medium.  Specifically, radiative energy loss should be
>in analogy with classical electrodynamics:
>
>        (dE_r/dx) =~NEZ(Z+1)q^4[4*ln(2E/mc^2) - 4/3]/137*m^2c^4 
>
>where E is in units of MeV and Z is atomic number, m is the mass of the
>charged particle with charge q and c is the speed of light.  
>        Because the square of the mass of the particle appears in the
>denominator, it is clear that lighter particles will have higher radiative
>losses.

True, if you ignore the relativistic effects that you would get with
a "light electron" with a mass (mo) of m/137 or m/137^2 where m is mo*gamma 
which is rapidly changing with energy loss. The "classical" equation 
would have to be modified to take this into account, wouldn't it?

>        So it looks to me that your formula is interpreted backwards, and
>that light particles will radiate more than heavy ones.  So your particles
>should produce copious brehmsstrahlung which may or may not be absorbed in
>the cell depending on what the energy spectrum looks like, but in any case
>would definitely be observable by a variety of techniques.
>        But in any case, there are no credible reports of "normal" cold
>fusion cells producing copious ionizing or non-iodizing radiation.  There
>are many many groups around the world trying to detect radiation signatures
>from cold fusion cells and they don't see anything like what you're proposing.
>        So my answer is "no." Cold fusion cells do not produce high amounts
>of electromagnetic radiation, and certainly not in amounts that are anywhere
>commensurate with observed excess heat.  
>
>Best regards,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo
>        
>
Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 18:15:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA27893; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:33:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 17:33:15 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:32:34 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970320203229_1648544638 emout18.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Need whiz-bang energy apps
Resent-Message-ID: <"Cktid1.0.jp6.OLUCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5133
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed,

In a message dated 3/19/97 9:07:52 AM, you wrote:

<<If you have a favorite use for low to no cost
energy, please e-mail it to me or post it here.>>

One horrifying thought.  Madison Ave will be able to cover the sky with
low-cost neon advertising!

Hal Puthoff

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 19:07:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05556; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:53:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:53:47 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321025136.00678ec8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:51:36 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Water heaters
Resent-Message-ID: <"g8enK.0.kM1.vWVCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5136
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


  Kirk:
  At 08:32 AM 3/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> Asking "Where are the publications?" corroborates the above.
>>There have been thousands of publications, with several
>>hundred positives.
>>
>     Gee, I wish someone would point them out to me...I've been
>     looking for 18 months now...oh wait!...you're using shorthand
>     also aren't you...you mean _claims_ to positive results.
>

  True.  Some may also be true positives but not calibrated, as
discussed elsewhere.  Personally I do not believe that some of the
calculated "kilowatts" are kilowatts in some vertical calorimetric systems, but
that there is an amplification factor [cf. Swartz, M, " Potential for Positional
Variation in Flow Calorimetric Systems", Journal of New Energy, 1, 126-130
(1996),
and SWARTZ, M., "IMPROVED CALCULATIONS INVOLVING ENERGY RELEASE USING A
BUOYANCY 
TRANSPORT CORRECTION", Journal of New Energy, 1, 3, 219-221 (1996)]

    =====================================================

>>  Many are posted at the Cold Fusion Times web site
>>at url  http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
>>
>
>     Just to be sure, I hopped over to your page and checked again.
>     I don't claim to have read 100% of the CF field, in fact I have
>     self-limited myself to F&P type work, including the PPC.  But
>     of the references you quote I have hit 14 of 18 papers, 4 of the
>     9 books you list, and only 1 of the conference proceedings (the
>     ICCF4/Fusion Tech version).
>
>     BTW, you need to update your listing.  Reifenschweiler has a full
>     paper now...Fus. Tech. 30 (1996), p. 261. And I'd recommend adding
>     Oriani (Fus. Tech. 30 (1996), p. 281) as well...he's a highly
>     prestigious materials scientist.
>>

  Thank you.  You are right, wish there were opportunities to update
more often.

  Best wishes,
    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 19:08:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA23566; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:54:49 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:54:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321025240.00698950 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:52:40 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"Go16N3.0.3m5.sXVCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5138
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:54 AM 3/21/97 +0900, Elliot Kennel wrote:

>        But in any case, there are no credible reports of "normal" cold
>fusion cells producing copious ionizing or non-iodizing radiation.  There
>are many many groups around the world trying to detect radiation signatures
>from cold fusion cells and they don't see anything like what you're proposing.
>        So my answer is "no." Cold fusion cells do not produce high amounts
>of electromagnetic radiation, and certainly not in amounts that are anywhere
>commensurate with observed excess heat.  
>
>Best regards,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo
>        
>

  Actually, that is not strictly true.  There is significant
amounts of non-ionizing electromagnetic
radiation in both the infrared and microwave regions,
 and also copious phonons in both the acoustic and optical modes.

 Elliot, what you say is only true for ionizing radiation.
Cold fusion cells do not produce large amounts
of ionizing electromagnetic radiation.

 Furthermore, although there is not copious ionizing EM emission, 
there may be some rather low energy (<15 keV) emissions at low intensity
as reported by Szpak, and others, in some of the systems under some
conditions.  

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 19:21:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05469; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:53:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:53:26 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321025116.006763f4 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:51:16 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"osdGy2.0.IL1.bWVCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5135
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 10:35 AM 3/19/97 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>Won't Li+ reduce silver nitrate?  The problem with the H2 is it's not ionized.
>

  Ignoring the exposure issue, methinks this is not true either, unless there is
an exceptionally electronegative material therein.

  Li+ is an ion, a cation, and it came from a metal where it already
lost its electron.   It was OXIDIZED, and cant reduce anything unless it
goes to Li++

    Li+  --->   Li++   +   e- (for Heffner's proposed reduction of silver
nitrate)


 Rather Li+ may be involved in structure breaking, clathrate formation,
interposition,
ion exchange reactions, etc., but is won't reduce anything.

  Reduction usually refers to electrons of negative charge, hence, "reduction".
BTW, there the simplicity ends.  In the US, we use voltage which is -1 * phi =
the potential (used widely).  This one dichotomy purportedly results from
Benjamin Franklin, who ought to be excused posthumously since he nearly
invented everything else correctly.

  More required reading, for those interested in getting this correct:

  J. O'M BOCKRIS, A. REDDY, "Modern Electrochemistry", Plenum Press (1970).

  H. H. Uhlig, "Corrosion and Corrosion Control", Wiley (1971).

  Hope that helps.
   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 19:22:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05613; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:54:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:54:04 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321025154.00674030 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:51:54 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"hN8os3.0.TN1.8XVCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5137
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:54 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Frederick wrote:
>Compton's work showed scattering with 19.9 keV  K-line photons from molybdenum
>or about 0.62 angstroms. So if you consider anything below 50 keV "soft" and
>difficult to detect there could be a lot going on at this "thermal" level.
>>


Frederick,

  You did not answer this.

  19.9 keV  is 19,900 eV which is not 'thermal'. 
 
What did you mean?
    because kBT is less than one eV. 
         [Sounds like this is this another "light electron"?   ;-)X

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 20:40:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA13709; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:05:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:05:27 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:04:45 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321040443.AAA6109 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"MWWNs1.0.6M3.6aWCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5139
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 02:51 AM 3/21/97 +0000, Mitchell wrote:

>At 05:54 AM 3/16/97 +0000, Frederick wrote:
>>Compton's work showed scattering with 19.9 keV  K-line photons from molybdenum
>>or about 0.62 angstroms. So if you consider anything below 50 keV "soft" and
>>difficult to detect there could be a lot going on at this "thermal" level.
>>>
>
>
>Frederick,
>
>  You did not answer this.
>
>  19.9 keV  is 19,900 eV which is not 'thermal'. 

Lets see; 19,900*11,600 is 231,000,000 deg K that is the temperature
range that Michael Shaffer says the hot fusion effort is getting to
in their plasmas. On the other hand 3.18E-15 joules divided up amongst
a few cubic microns of palladium is 'thermal' in my book. <g>
> 
>What did you mean?
>    because kBT is less than one eV. 

I have no idea what the heck kBT is. Thermomagnetic units? Boltzmann went
grouse...er Gauss hunting with Lord Kelvin?  :-)

>         [Sounds like this is this another "light electron"?   ;-)X
>
>  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)
>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 21:02:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA04289; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:49:59 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:49:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321044731.006955f8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:47:31 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"QqfpT2.0.v21.pDXCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5140
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 04:04 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:
>>>Compton's work showed scattering with 19.9 keV  K-line photons from
molybdenum
>>>or about 0.62 angstroms. So if you consider anything below 50 keV "soft" and
>>>difficult to detect there could be a lot going on at this "thermal" level.

>>
>>  19.9 keV  is 19,900 eV which is not 'thermal'. 
>
>Lets see; 19,900*11,600 is 231,000,000 deg K that is the temperature
>range that Michael Shaffer says the hot fusion effort is getting to
>in their plasmas. On the other hand 3.18E-15 joules divided up amongst
>a few cubic microns of palladium is 'thermal' in my book. <g>
>> 

  Frederick

     You say 19 keV is thermal in what book?

     And by the way, where did you dig up these numbers, and how do
they relate to cold fusion? 3.18E-15 joules comes from where?

   =================================================


>>What did you mean?
>>    because kBT is less than one eV. 
>
>I have no idea what the heck kBT is. Thermomagnetic units? Boltzmann went
>grouse...er Gauss hunting with Lord Kelvin?  :-)


   kB is Boltzmann's constant.   T is Temperature (Kelvin)

  Perhaps that helps.

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 21:15:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA05629; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:00:54 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:00:54 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530501af57ba07b29f [199.237.131.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:03:28 -0900
To: rgeorge hooked.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs - an experiment
Resent-Message-ID: <"DfXye1.0.tN1.4OXCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5141
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 4:16 AM 3/19/97, Russ George wrote:
>
>>
>> Won't Li+ reduce silver nitrate?  The problem with the H2 is it's not
>>ionized.
>>
>> Any direct contact of an electrode containing Li salts with a film emulsion
>> is bound to produce some free silver, i.e. expose the film, true?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Horace Heffner
>
>If you propose a hypothesis that this is the case it is upon you to do the
>very simple confirming experiment.

Nope. The "on you" police won't come and get me.  8^)



>Expounding upon a trivial hypothesis to
>explain some observed effect without having taken even a miniscule step to
>test
>the hypothesis is pretty lame tending toward complete BS.


Nope. I've seen the effects of skin chemistry on color photographic
negatives created by kirlian photography. The hypothesis is not totally
lame but based upon some evidence. Yes it's obvious that other chemical
effects bsides those from hydrogen can occur, and that's basically what I
was saying. If it's so trivial and obvious what's the problem with my
pointing that out?


>This is exactly the
>manner in which the original ridiculous idea that hydrogen leaking from the
>cathode was responsible for the x-ray exposures reported.

Hopefully the authors addressed any possible concerns for the chemical
explanation for the image in the article.


>
>You might as well have said Pixie dust, a well known reducing agent, was trod
>upon the film and that explains the exposures.

Only if pixie dust was used in the electrolyte and only if there was no
water proof (or pixie dust proof) barrier between the cathode and the film
emulsion.

>If that's the standards of
>science we attend to then it might as well all be attributed to the will of
>Allah then no one need worry about any responsibility for any thing.

The responsibility of proof lies with those who publish, not those who question.

> The big
>guy is running it all and all is therefore as it is ordained. By that makes
>life simple.


Ideas are like ammo. Keep shooting and eventually you'll hit the target,
stop and you won't.

BTW are you seem to have trouble distingusihing between questioning ideas
and bullshit.  The former is food for thought and the latter is food for
plants. It's important to know which end of the bull you are dealing with!
8^)

All that said, I'll get to the point. I tried the experiment. Not
perfectly, because I used color film. I figure it has some silver halides
anyway so should provide a quick check. I sponged some 1 molar solution of
Li2SO4 on a patch of film and also transferred some using a nickle
(symbolic eh?) hoping to get some of the bas relief image.  The result is
that no exposure occurred. If anything, some very light spots appeared on
the negative due to thinning of the emulsion.

I used Fujicolor Super G ASA 100 color print film. It was sent to me in the
mail free as an incentive to use a photograph scanning service. Since
nothing appeared on the negative the development was free too.

If something is going to chemically expose film it probably won't be Li2SO4.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 21:40:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA25123; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:18:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:18:35 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530503af57c7bdeb43 [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:21:22 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Need whiz-bang energy apps
Resent-Message-ID: <"nqhpA1.0.Q86.eeXCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5142
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:31 AM 3/19/97, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>To: Vortex
>
>I am writing an article for a future issue of I.E. about the technological
>potential of a zero cost, unlimited, compact energy source. I have compiled a
>list of gadgets that we could make with such an energy source. I include the
>usual stuff like cars and airplanes that go forever without refueling,
>mid-ocean telephone repeaters, and improved desalination. I have also dug up
>some unconventional things like the Molten Metals Technology toxic chemical
>treatment method, which I believe would be more cost-effective with zero cost
>energy. (See www.mmt.com.) If you have a favorite use for low to no cost
>energy, please e-mail it to me or post it here.
>
>- Jed


Maybe not a whiz-bang idea, but a poetic closure might be provided by using
CF to drive a pollution free and very quiet tour boat in Price William
Sound, Alaska.

Probably not new, but another idea would be to use CF to power ozone
generators flying in the ozone layer.



Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 22:02:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA10127; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:45:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:45:29 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530504af57cd2d3237 [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 20:48:50 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"Stf1i.0.9U2.s1YCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5143
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>At 10:35 AM 3/19/97 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:
>>
>>Won't Li+ reduce silver nitrate?  The problem with the H2 is it's not ionized.
>>
>
>  Ignoring the exposure issue, methinks this is not true either, unless
>there is
>an exceptionally electronegative material therein.
>
>  Li+ is an ion, a cation, and it came from a metal where it already
>lost its electron.   It was OXIDIZED, and cant reduce anything unless it
>goes to Li++
>
>    Li+  --->   Li++   +   e- (for Heffner's proposed reduction of silver
>nitrate)
>
>
> Rather Li+ may be involved in structure breaking, clathrate formation,
>interposition,
>ion exchange reactions, etc., but is won't reduce anything.
>
>  Reduction usually refers to electrons of negative charge, hence, "reduction".
>BTW, there the simplicity ends.  In the US, we use voltage which is -1 * phi =
>the potential (used widely).  This one dichotomy purportedly results from
>Benjamin Franklin, who ought to be excused posthumously since he nearly
>invented everything else correctly.
>
>  More required reading, for those interested in getting this correct:
>
>  J. O'M BOCKRIS, A. REDDY, "Modern Electrochemistry", Plenum Press (1970).
>
>  H. H. Uhlig, "Corrosion and Corrosion Control", Wiley (1971).
>
>  Hope that helps.
>   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

Yes, it appears you are right.  In fact, reduction often just refers to
combination of an element with hydrogen, true? The reduction of the Ag ion
would have to occur from metallic Li that is on, or somehow leached out of,
the cathode and transmitted by direct contact with the emulsion.

I appreaciate your help, but your demeanor seems a bit retentive lately. I
have personally found Metamucil works wonders.

Hope that helps.  8^)

Horace


Oops! Did I confuse you with rgeorge and the other line ... ?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 22:26:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA32348; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:15:16 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:15:16 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530507af57d564203e [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:18:37 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"xHPgc3.0.Kv7.oTYCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5145
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Vortexians:
>
>Going through my newly acquired, Marks' Standard Handbook For Mechanical
>Engineers, 10th (80th anniversary) Edition, I came across an energy
>converter that stated:
>
>"Two separate streams of water coming from the same reservoir,in falling
>are allowed to break up into droplets. At the breakup points, each stream
>is surrounded by a short metal cylinder. Each cylinder is connected
>electrically to a screen at the bottom of the opposite stream.
>High potential differences are produced between the two metal cylinders."
>
>Sounds like an interesting thing to do with a pump, some pvc pipe and
>a reservoir. How much mass do the *Electrons* have?  <g>
>
>A similar effect for the vapor&electrical charges of a boiling liquid
>that uses a condenser and electron collecting screens. Cute, huh?
>
>Regards,     Frederick

Wow, just think, Lord Kelvin linked gravitational and electrostatic
potential energy way..... back. Nothing to it eh?  What was Einstein's
problem?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 22:26:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA12389; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:15:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:15:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530508af57d68f665c [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:18:40 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Resent-Message-ID: <"xRfQO3.0.U13.lTYCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5144
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>[snip]

>   I will concede that the smallness of nuclear cross sections seems to
>irrevocably dictate that thermonuclear fusion devices will be large.  So, I
>hang out on Vortex, to try to learn how we might do better.
>
>Michael J. Schaffer
>PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
>Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


Thanks for doing so and for making so many valued contributions while you
are at it!  If it weren't for help from pros like yourself amateurs like me
couldn't do much of anything.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 22:28:35 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA12581; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:18:25 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:18:25 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC357C.25FB6320 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Need whiz-bang energy apps
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:08:29 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC357C.26972DF0"
Resent-Message-ID: <"PzOSk.0.V43.lWYCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5147
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC357C.26972DF0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hal Putoff wrote:

>One horrifying thought.  Madison Ave will be able to cover the sky with
>low-cost neon advertising!

That's no joke, Madison Avenue is ahead of you on that one. I've heard =
there are already proposals for space advertising, even with current =
technology. Think large quantities of mylar in orbit, creating the =
optical effect of an object with the apparent size of the moon. You want =
two moons? No problem. One of them is the Real Thing!

Dan Quickert
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC357C.26972DF0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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=

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC357C.26972DF0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 22:30:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA32364; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:15:24 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:15:24 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530509af57d847cddd [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:18:43 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"MBatf.0.Lv7.oTYCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5146
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Frederick
>Your talking about tribo-electricity, where friction of one type
>or another separates charges. Gasoline is a particular problem.
>Lots of boats and cars have caught fire from it. The hose must
>have a grounded metal end, and touch a ground from the
>vessel the gas is filling. Even gas cans on an insulated pickup
>bed have caused fires.
>Hank Scudder

Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor. It start due to
a slight imbalance of charge between the two conductors, which induces a
chrarge imbalance in the water at the drop points. It's a liquid version of
the Hemholtz machine.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 22:50:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA01838; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:38:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:38:41 -0800
Message-Id: <v0153050baf57d9ee3149 [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:40:33 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re:  Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"jLVWN2.0.ES.kpYCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5148
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:54 AM 3/21/97, Elliot Kennel wrote:
[snip]
>        But in any case, there are no credible reports of "normal" cold
>fusion cells producing copious ionizing or non-iodizing radiation.  There
>are many many groups around the world trying to detect radiation signatures
>from cold fusion cells and they don't see anything like what you're proposing.
>        So my answer is "no." Cold fusion cells do not produce high amounts
>of electromagnetic radiation, and certainly not in amounts that are anywhere
>commensurate with observed excess heat.
>
>Best regards,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo
>

Maybe there is a quantum mechanical limitation on the energy levels
produced from lights due to large quantum wavelength?  The lights can't get
close enough to a nucleus within a lattice for relativistic accelerations
without having part of their quantum waveform beyond the nucleus being
approached, preventing or reducing the maximum acceleration toward a
nucleus.


Also there was a mention in the article: "Cold Fusion in a Ying Cell and
Probability Enhancement by Boson Stimulation", Ying and Shults, IE
March-April, 1995, p47, 2nd column, that "Shults was burned on his finger,
under his ring, at a distance of 1.4 meters from the operating cell -
apparently by some unknown emission of electromagnetic radiation."  This
was a conventional D-Pd cell, except maybe for the alpha and/or gamma
stimulation of the cell.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 23:17:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA16219; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:02:11 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:02:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321070003.006875e8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 02:00:03 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"0quhB3.0.Lz3.n9ZCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5149
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:48 PM 3/20/97 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote:

>Yes, it appears you are right.  In fact, reduction often just refers to
>combination of an element with hydrogen, true? The reduction of the Ag ion
>would have to occur from metallic Li that is on, or somehow leached out of,
>the cathode and transmitted by direct contact with the emulsion.
>
>I appreaciate your help, but your demeanor seems a bit retentive lately. I
>have personally found Metamucil works wonders.
>

  Horace, if you find Metamucil seems to be changing your demeanor, then perhaps
this is not the forum to broadcast it.  Also, you might consider alternate
therapy.

   Hope that helps.  
   

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 23:47:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA19517; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:36:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:35:45 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321073543.AAA19853 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"sqPKL.0.om4.xfZCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5150
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 04:47 AM 3/21/97 +0000, Mitchell  wrote:

>At 04:04 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:
 
>>
>>Lets see; 19,900*11,600 is 231,000,000 deg K that is the temperature
>>range that Michael Shaffer says the hot fusion effort is getting to
>>in their plasmas. On the other hand 3.18E-15 joules divided up amongst
>>a few cubic microns of palladium is 'thermal' in my book. <g>
>>> 
>
>  Frederick
>
>     You say 19 keV is thermal in what book?

My book Mitchell. If I shine 19,900 ev to 50,000 ev x-rays into a 
fish tank all day long and the water gets warmer and the fish start 
to sweat, and no ionizing radiation comes out of the tank, to me, in
my book that is THERMAL. Same as the ocean or window glass absorbing 
ultraviolet rays. Granted the sensory nerves on your skin cannot "feel"
the sensation of heat from ultraviolet rays or soft x-rays ,but the effect
is thermal.
>
>     And by the way, where did you dig up these numbers, and how do
>they relate to cold fusion? 3.18E-15 joules comes from where?

Come on Mitchell 19,900 ev is 3.18E-15 joules and so is k*19,900*11,600.
k not kB is Boltzmann's constant (from physics 101) 1.38E-23 joule/deg K
1.0 ev = 11,600 deg K
>
>   kB is Boltzmann's constant.

No sir. k is Boltzmann's constant when used in proper context, kB confuses
us mortals. 
>T is Temperature (Kelvin)

You got that right, and when you see kT you know it is Boltzmann's constant
times temperature. kBT is confusing as all get-out.  <G>
>
>  Perhaps that helps.

Who?   <G>

Best Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 20 23:58:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA13267; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:44:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:44:53 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321074255.00695f80 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 02:42:55 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"UZD0Z2.0.DF3.qnZCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5151
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:35 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:
> 
>>>
>>>Lets see; 19,900*11,600 is 231,000,000 deg K that is the temperature
>>>range that Michael Shaffer says the hot fusion effort is getting to
>>>in their plasmas. On the other hand 3.18E-15 joules divided up amongst
>>>a few cubic microns of palladium is 'thermal' in my book. <g>

>>     You say 19 keV is thermal in what book?
>
>My book Mitchell. If I shine 19,900 ev to 50,000 ev x-rays into a 
>fish tank all day long and the water gets warmer and the fish start 
>to sweat, and no ionizing radiation comes out of the tank, to me, in
>my book that is THERMAL. Same as the ocean or window glass absorbing 
>ultraviolet rays. Granted the sensory nerves on your skin cannot "feel"
>the sensation of heat from ultraviolet rays or soft x-rays ,but the effect
>is thermal.
>>

  It appears that you are making much of this up on the fly.

  Let us suppose that we irradiate that
fishtank to 10,000 rads of ionizing radiation.  
The LD50 for humans is a small fraction of that, right?



  Let us also suppose that the ionizing radiation is 10 MeV photons, 
so that there can be adequate penetration of the fish tank.  OK?



  1 fishbowl, 10,000 rads midplane dose, 10 MeV photons

  What is the incremental temperature increase, Frederick?



       Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 00:46:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA22903; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 00:35:40 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 00:35:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:34:53 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321083451.AAA13916 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"FvzhK1.0.kb5.PXaCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5152
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:42 AM 3/21/97 +0000, Mitchell wrote:
>At 07:35 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:
>> 
>>>>
>>>>Lets see; 19,900*11,600 is 231,000,000 deg K that is the temperature
>>>>range that Michael Schaffer says the hot fusion effort is getting to
>>>>in their plasmas. On the other hand 3.18E-15 joules divided up amongst
>>>>a few cubic microns of palladium is 'thermal' in my book. <g>
>
>>>     You say 19 keV is thermal in what book?
>>
>>My book Mitchell. If I shine 19,900 ev to 50,000 ev x-rays into a 
>>fish tank all day long and the water gets warmer and the fish start 
>>to sweat, and no ionizing radiation comes out of the tank, to me, in
>>my book that is THERMAL. Same as the ocean or window glass absorbing 
>>ultraviolet rays. Granted the sensory nerves on your skin cannot "feel"
>>the sensation of heat from ultraviolet rays or soft x-rays ,but the effect
>>is thermal.
>>>
>
>  It appears that you are making much of this up on the fly.

Why not, if it is logical? The 2.45 gigahertz radiation in a microwave
oven is supposed to be "non-ionizing", but if you want to gut it and
stick a neon bulb (Ne-2), or a fluorescent bulb in it you will see ionizing
radiation at work. If you are game you can stick an incandescent bulb
in there also and watch the brilliant light and the explosion.

Shine 2 or 3 ev "non-ionizing light on cesium vapor and you will get
ionization, it's all relative, isn't it?

Use an Elecron Beam welder all day with no clicks on a geiger counter
next to it and no "ionizing" radiation, but lots of thermal radiation.

>
>  Let us suppose that we irradiate that
>fishtank to 10,000 rads of ionizing radiation.  
>The LD50 for humans is a small fraction of that, right?

Ok, so you fry someone's innards where they get no sensation of heat
in their cells that you are destroying, what's your point?
>
>
>
>  Let us also suppose that the ionizing radiation is 10 MeV photons, 
>so that there can be adequate penetration of the fish tank.  OK?

Ok, Then you will get attenuation of the beam and that loss shows up 
as a temperature increase in the tank, most likely do to Compton 
scattering loss and ionization. You drop down to 50 kev and no 
detectable radiation comes out of the tank and you measure the 
temperature increase of the water and call it thermal heat, same as
the core of a fission reactor.

>  1 fishbowl, 10,000 rads midplane dose, 10 MeV photons
>
>  What is the incremental temperature increase, Frederick?

You measure the rads lost in heating the tank by it's temperature
increase in time t. Joule/second equal watts.

Follow Horace"s advice and try the Metamucil.   <G>

>
>
>       Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 01:00:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA24209; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 00:50:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 00:50:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321084840.00688f88 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 03:48:40 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"7B-Tg3.0.Bw5.WlaCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5153
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:34 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:

>>  Let us suppose that we irradiate that
>>fishtank to 10,000 rads of ionizing radiation.  
>>The LD50 for humans is a small fraction of that, right?
>
>Ok, so you fry someone's innards where they get no sensation of heat
>in their cells that you are destroying, what's your point?
>>
>>

  Point is there is no significant temperature increase after all.

 ==============================================

>>
>>  Let us also suppose that the ionizing radiation is 10 MeV photons, 
>>so that there can be adequate penetration of the fish tank.  OK?
>
>Ok, Then you will get attenuation of the beam and that loss shows up 
>as a temperature increase in the tank, most likely do to Compton 
>scattering loss and ionization. You drop down to 50 kev and no 
>detectable radiation comes out of the tank and you measure the 
>temperature increase of the water and call it thermal heat, same as
>the core of a fission reactor.
>

  There is no significant temperature increase.


  =================================================

>>  1 fishbowl, 10,000 rads midplane dose, 10 MeV photons
>>
>>  What is the incremental temperature increase, Frederick?
>
>You measure the rads lost in heating the tank by it's temperature
>increase in time t. Joule/second equal watts.

  No, you probably cannot measure the rads delivered to the tank
by measureing the temperature increase for 10,000 rads delivered.
It is too small, and totally dwarfed by the thermal leakage from
the tank, and even the noise of the system.

  If you disagree, then tell me the temperature rise for the problem
I gave.  You can pick the fishbowl size of your choice, and we can
assume homogeneous disribution of radiation.   10,000 rads given dose.
What is the temperature rise?   

  Hope that helps.  Best wishes.

    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 01:41:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA20916; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:31:41 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:31:41 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321092942.006955fc world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:29:42 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: pair production
Resent-Message-ID: <"GfUEf2.0.i65.xLbCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5156
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:34 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:
>>  Let us also suppose that the ionizing radiation is 10 MeV photons, 
>>so that there can be adequate penetration of the fish tank.  OK?
>
>Ok, Then you will get attenuation of the beam and that loss shows up 
>as a temperature increase in the tank, most likely do to Compton 
>scattering loss and ionization. 

  Nope.  It is neither Compton scattering, nor the photoelectric effect.
It is pair (and triplet) production.  As mentioned in the previous
post, pair production dominates above 2 MeV.

  Hope that helps.  Best wishes.
    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 01:41:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA27225; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:32:11 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:32:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530501af5806245332 [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 00:35:46 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re:  Autoradiographs
Resent-Message-ID: <"SFo1q2.0.If6.QMbCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5157
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 2:00 AM 3/21/97, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
[snip]
>  Horace, if you find Metamucil seems to be changing your demeanor, then
>perhaps
>this is not the forum to broadcast it.  Also, you might consider alternate
>therapy.
>
>   Hope that helps.
>

Hopefully I neither demean nor need alternatives.

Hope that helps.  8^)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 01:50:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA20446; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:24:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:24:49 -0800
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970321092503.00665390 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:25:03 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re: Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"ogXGG.0.L_4.VFbCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5154
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

   
>>Actually, that is not strictly true.  There is significant
amounts of non-ionizing electromagnetic
radiation in both the infrared and microwave regions,
 and also copious phonons in both the acoustic and optical modes.
 Elliot, what you say is only true for ionizing radiation.
Cold fusion cells do not produce large amounts
of ionizing electromagnetic radiation.<<

Mitchell,
        No (and probably you came in late on this discussion; I'm sure you
really know this) there are all kinds of reports that cold fusion cell
produce SMALL AMOUNTS of radiation, ionizing AND nonionizing, but the
radiation is in no way commensurate with excess heat.  Of that we are sure!
This has been clear from the beginning.  Excess heat is not due to gammas,
microwaves, infrared, optical phonons, acoustic phonons, hard x-rays, soft
x-rays, in-between x-rays, betas, neutrons, ultrasound or any of that
run-of-the-mill stuff. If it were, it would blow the lid off of everyone's
detectors.  It just hasn't been observed.
        Nor can Frederick's ultralight betas be present (although
admitttedly I haven't spent much time with his proposal as I haven't taken
it very seriously).  Relativistic correction or no, they would carry
bremsstrahlung x-rays which are simply not seen despite many attempts to
observe them.  I don't see how the relativistic correction, which would
simply increase the particle mass, would affect the situation in any
meaningful way.
        Nuclear radiation is not the cause of excess heat in cold fusion
experiments.

Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo        
      

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 01:57:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA20814; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:31:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 01:31:26 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321092928.006998bc world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:29:28 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Fleischmann, x-rays
Resent-Message-ID: <"1FGJk2.0.855.jLbCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5155
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 06:25 PM 3/21/97 +0900, you wrote:
>   
>>>Actually, that is not strictly true.  There is significant
>amounts of non-ionizing electromagnetic
>radiation in both the infrared and microwave regions,
> and also copious phonons in both the acoustic and optical modes.
> Elliot, what you say is only true for ionizing radiation.
>Cold fusion cells do not produce large amounts
>of ionizing electromagnetic radiation.<<
>
>Mitchell,
>        No (and probably you came in late on this discussion

  thank you, Elliot but I did not.

 ==========================================

>I'm sure you
>really know this) there are all kinds of reports that cold fusion cell
>produce SMALL AMOUNTS of radiation, ionizing AND nonionizing, but the
>radiation is in no way commensurate with excess heat.  Of that we are sure!

  No.  The infrared is heat = molecular vibrations
      the microwave is heat = molecular rotations, and is commensurate with
the heat.


 ==========================================


>This has been clear from the beginning.  Excess heat is not due to gammas,
>microwaves, infrared, optical phonons, acoustic phonons, hard x-rays, soft
>x-rays, in-between x-rays, betas, neutrons, ultrasound or any of that
>run-of-the-mill stuff.
> If it were, it would blow the lid off of everyone's
>detectors.  It just hasn't been observed.


  The phonons, and the IR, and the microwaves constitute what we see
as heat.  The latter two are EM.   They are commensurate with the heat.

  You mean the ASH is not found to be commensurate with the heat.
Actually the helium found is about ~30%.

  Best wishes.

   Mitchell Swartz

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 04:08:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA05622; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 03:59:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 03:59:13 -0800 (PST)
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 06:58:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970321065832_1151011586 emout06.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"Nmdey1.0.lN1.FWdCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5158
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Randell Mills' company BlackLight Power (formerly Hydrocatalysis Corp) has
set up a web page which *all* here should check out:

http://www.blacklightpower.com

You will need the Acrobat reader to view and print out the theory and
astrophysics pages, because these contain extensive mathematical analysis. 

In brief, Mill's process is able to extract **many** times as much energy
from atomic hydrogen as can be accomplished by combustion. He has found that
H atoms can be induced by catalysis to collapse into a non-radiating state
which is below the nominal ground state, with the yield of energies greater
than known chemistry but less than nuclear. There are patents pending. The
reactions are gas phase and can operate at temperatures above 1000 C with
direct application to existing power plants. The energy yield is more than
enough to dissociate water, so the systems can be water-fueld. 

The web pages contain stockholder newsletters, a business plan, and many
other details of the technology. Pictures of devices may be added soon.

This web page signals the entry of a major new player into the new energy
arena. It isn't cold fusion, it isn't high energy physics, it isn't ZPE, it
isn't conventional chemistry, and it comes with a highly detailed, unifying
theory which Mills terms Classical Quantum Mechanics. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 05:08:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA09397; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:58:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 04:58:26 -0800 (PST)
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:57:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970321075744_-2073833064 emout14.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: nuclear class
Resent-Message-ID: <"KM4x61.0.lI2.nNeCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5159
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Thouse of you who are not taking nuclear class should be.  The first think
the instructer said last class was, "Plossom bracket with the Hammoltion =0.
 This carries into mos and commutes with the hammonian.  The density of the
wave states is orthogonal."

Things got worse from there.

Frank Z

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 07:01:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA19150; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 06:47:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 06:47:35 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703210842.ZM17 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:42:25 -0600
In-Reply-To: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
        "RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter." (Mar 21, 12:12am)
References: <v01530509af57d847cddd [199.237.131.246]>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"qBK4C3.0.6h4.5-fCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5160
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Mar 21, 12:12am, Horace Heffner wrote:
> Subject: RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
> >Frederick
> >Your talking about tribo-electricity, where friction of one type
> >or another separates charges. Gasoline is a particular problem.
> >Lots of boats and cars have caught fire from it. The hose must
> >have a grounded metal end, and touch a ground from the
> >vessel the gas is filling. Even gas cans on an insulated pickup
> >bed have caused fires.
> >Hank Scudder
>
> Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor. It start due to
> a slight imbalance of charge between the two conductors, which induces a
> chrarge imbalance in the water at the drop points. It's a liquid version of
> the Hemholtz machine.

Sorry Horace, but the effect is not exclusively in the domain of water.  There
have been many documented spontaneous fires at gas stations because of
ungrounded plastic gas cans.  It is highly recomened that you place *any*
gasoline or flamable liquid container on the ground when filling it to
dissapate the charge build up from the transfer.  Hell of a weenie roast if you
don't.

Another thing I don't recomend is leaving linseed oil soaked rags out in the
sun.  I found out the hard way why the can says 'may spontaneously combust' on
it.  Lucky for me it was a 'well, look at that!' situation and not an 'oh
sh**!' moment!


-john




-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 07:43:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA23876; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:30:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:30:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:28:37 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970321102822_1949619558 emout15.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Oil Companies the Culprits?
Resent-Message-ID: <"Pl9dm.0.vq5.3cgCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5161
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Frank Stenger said:

<<the vested energy
companies of the World are the real culprits against ANY new energy
source that enters "their" market place. >>

Contrary to popular opinion, at least the the oil companies may not be the
culprits.  When I first tumbled onto the idea that ZPE might be extractable,
I arranged to brief the President of Pennzoil (Scotty Holland), and the
presidents and research directors of several other oil companies (Texaco,
Marathon, Coastal, etc.) in a whirlwind tour.  My question: "What would be
the response of your company?"  The answer, unanimously, was: "We would
welcome it.  When we take our precious resource out of the ground to make
nylons, plastics, drugs, etc., we don't use up much and we have a large
profit margin.  When we take it out of the ground to power automobiles and
heat people's homes, it's like heating your home by burning van Goghs and
Picassos.  Please take this burden off our industry.  And, BTW, let us buy
some to make our refineries more efficient."  In answer to my question
"Wouldn't you want to take over the industry?" the answer was "We do oil, not
physics."  No enemies, I asked?  "Maybe the mideast sheiks who take it out of
the ground - just cut them a deal to capitalize its development and
distribution, and they won't be the enemy."

Hal Puthoff  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 08:45:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA00256; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:31:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:31:58 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:29:13 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321162912.AAA9867 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"0MGMD1.0.s3.yVhCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5164
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mitchell wrote:

>
> 1 fishbowl, 10,000 rads midplane dose, 10 MeV photons
>What is the incremental temperature increase, Frederick?
>

Pushy, aren't you?  <g>

Lets see. 1 rad is 100 ergs, ie., 1.0E-5 joule dumped into 
one gram of material. 4.187 joule will raise the temperature 
of water one degree C or K.

Thus 10,000 rads of photons (regardless of their energy) will
raise one gram of water 10,000*1.0E-5/4.187 = 0.02388 degree C or K.

So, it's a small fishbowl. <g>  A rattlesnake's heat sensors can
detect that delta T  easily. 

A Curie (3.7E10 gammas/second) from Thallium 210 at 3 MeV
is going to emit: 
3.7E10*3.0E6*1.6E-19 = 1.776E-2 joules/second = 1.776E3 rads
per second. So you only need 235.8 Curies of Thallium 210 to raise the
temperature of a gram of water one degree C or K?

So if I didn't goof, 0.34 micrograms of Thallium 210 will produce 
enough rads in one second to raise the temperature of a gram of 
water 1 deg in one second? Use a bigger fishbowl and measure internally
generated heat and external photon loss?

I found some numbers for attenuation loss of 1/2 of the energy
of incident X-Rays at various energies for a few materials;
thickness in centimeters:

X-Rays (keV)  Water   Aluminum     Copper     Lead

1,000          10      4.15         1.35      0.865
124            4.3     1.60         0.21      0.016
62             3.9     0.92         0.051     0.013
41.2           2.4     0.55         0.018     0.0044
31             1.6     0.23         0.0078    0.0020
25             1.1     0.13         0.004     0.0011
21             0.7     0.076        0.0025    0.0007
18             0.46    0.05         0.0016    0.00044
16             0.33    0.035        0.0011    -----
14             0.25    0.023        0.0008    -----
12             0.18    0.017        0.0006    -----
6.2            0.025   0.0025       0.0007 (absorb. redu point)
4.1            0.008   0.0008       0.00025   -------

Hope this helps.

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 08:53:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA24561; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:40:34 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:40:34 -0800 (PST)
Date: 21 Mar 97 10:38:03 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 CompuServe.COM>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Message-ID: <970321153803_72240.1256_EHB122-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"LQjbF2.0.g_5.llgCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5162
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Mike wrote:

     . . . we both recognize that most modern energy uses demand 'high grade'
     energy--rotary motion or electrical energy.

Yeah, but when you look closer, it is surprising how often you find that high
grade energy is converted back to low grade heat, in things like electric
space heaters, clothes driers, and ovens. (A kiln needs high grade heat, most
ovens do not.) This is thermodynamically inefficient. We should use heat pumps
for space heating, and microwave to dry clothes. People are working on that,
but progress is slow. With reliable 300 deg C CF reactors we could meet almost
all of our energy needs. In many cases we would not need to convert the energy
to rotary power or electricity.

We tend to think of energy as something that is centrally generated and
delivered via a network. Actually, about half of today's energy is generated
from chemical fuel in small machines, when and where it is needed. These
machines include things like automobile engines (ICE), gas and oil fired space
heaters, and so on. 23% of energy use is in ICE. (Refineries and gas stations
can be thought of as an energy distribution system, but it isn't quite the
same thing as the power grid.) The ICE is a good example of what can be done
to decentralize energy generation, and give everyone his own generator. For
all of their faults, ICE are extremely reliable. They prove that we could have
home generators. Today, nearly every American family owns 1 or 2 small engines
(ICE), which generate 23% of its energy needs. Tomorrow, every family will
have 3 small engines, which will generate 100% of its energy needs. It is not
such a gigantic change as you might think. The production infrastructure and
technical know-how already exist.


     This conversion costs money--some mix of capital, operation, maintenance
     and decommissioning.

I addressed that issue in the previous two messages. Yes, of course it would
cost money, but the amounts would be far less than we spend today.


     We have been converting heat into high grade energy for over 2
     centuries, and there is a great market pull for improved turbines,
     thermoelectrics, and other converters of any kind.  Yet, we do not have
     them.  This is mainly because of the limitations of known materials
     (high temperature strength and corrosion resistance for turbines . . . )

A good example! High operating temperature and corrosion resistance are
essential features in our present energy conversion technology because the
fuel is so expensive. We must have good Carnot efficiency, so we must have
high temperatures. Also, combustion only occurs at high temperatures; there is
no such thing as coal that burns at 300 deg C. Ah, but what happens when the
fuel cost drops to zero? And what happens with CF, which works as happily at
300 or 100 deg C as it does at 1000? We can use low temperature, inefficient
conversion devices. The machinery will last much longer and it will be cheaper
because it will not be stressed by extreme temperatures. Today's fission
reactors operate at about 300 deg C because that puts less stress on the
machinery. Fission energy is so cheap it can be traded off for equipment
longevity.

When the ground rules change and radically new technology is introduced, all
of the research that went into improving previous materials is thrown away.
You assert that thermal conversion technology cannot drop in price, say, two
orders of magnitude, because we have spent hundreds of years working on that
technology. Well, we have spent 3000 years developing marine technology.
Shipbuilding is one of man's oldest skills. It has been the focus of intense
scientific research since the days of Isaac Newton. Yet in the last 30 years
the cost of shipping a kilogram by sea fell to unprecedented lows, because of
improvements in container ships design, larger ships, better docking
facilities, automation, and so on. The research that we have done until now on
high-Carnot efficiency, high temperature conversion systems will all have to
be scrapped in the CF era. It will be like the improvements that culminated in
100 mph steam locomotive passenger trains by 1900. That was the final
flowering of that particular line of development. I think it is safe to say
that no reciprocating steam engine will ever run faster, but the limits those
machines reached had no bearing on the development of a 450 mph jet airplane.


     In contrast, materials for thermal power conversion have been
     INTENSIVELY researched and developed for a long time.

But nothing like as long or as hard as ships, which have recently been
radically improved, or automobiles, which are only 15% efficient. Ford Motor
company recently unveiled a prototype car that gets four times the mileage of
today's models! Billions have been spent on automotive R&D, yet we have still
have tremendous leeway for improvements. And all that INTENSIVE thermal power
research applied to high temperature (mostly combustion), high Carnot
efficiency systems, which will be irrelevant to our coming needs. It will be
like intensive research into vacuum tubes after the transistor comes along.


     Therefore, I predict there will be only incremental progress in this
     field, unless there is a fundamental breakthrough in solid state science
     that enables new materials technologies.

Whereas I say the fundamental breakthrough in the core technology, heat
generation, has already occurred. It is CF, and it will push the peripheral
technology into unprecedented improvements. Of course, I have no idea how it
will be done! I know nothing about which new compounds people might use in
thermoelectric chips. I haven't a clue how to make a compact,
maintenance-free, steam turbine generator that lasts 15 years and costs $2000.
But I do understand one thing: Money! When people see billions of dollars in
potential profits, they will find ways to lower the cost of thermal conversion
technology by a factor of ten, and then another factor of ten, and then
another, just as they did with computer hard disks, automobile tires,
container ships, highway construction, printing and thousands of other
technologies, large and small, new and old. CF will open a vast market for
products that exploit low-grade, benign heat. People will invent radically
new products to do that, and competition will relentlessly drive down the
cost of those products.


     Support basic research.

Support cutthroat free market competition!

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 08:56:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA03495; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703211631.IAA04915 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:34:11 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <970321065832_1151011586 emout06.mail.aol.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"lHfYl2.0.Ss.eVhCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5163
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

The link www.blacklightpower.com does not seem to work.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:06:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA03738; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:53:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:53:49 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321165141.0069892c world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:51:41 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"4Xj3Q.0.Kw.RqhCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5167
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 04:29 PM 3/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Mitchell wrote:
>
>>
>> 1 fishbowl, 10,000 rads midplane dose, 10 MeV photons
>>What is the incremental temperature increase, Frederick?
>>
>
>Pushy, aren't you?  <g>
>
>Lets see. 1 rad is 100 ergs, ie., 1.0E-5 joule dumped into 
>one gram of material. 4.187 joule will raise the temperature 
>of water one degree C or K.
>
>Thus 10,000 rads of photons (regardless of their energy) will
>raise one gram of water 10,000*1.0E-5/4.187 = 0.02388 degree C or K.
>
>So, it's a small fishbowl. <g>  A rattlesnake's heat sensors can
>detect that delta T  easily. 
>
  
  Ok, now we have some numbers.

 1.  Are you saying you can accurately detect that incremental
change of 0.02388 degree C or K? 
  
 2. It doesn't matter what the size of the fishbowl is, does it?

   Given the definition of the rad which is 100 ergs of energy deposited per
gram of material, that is the MAXIMUM temperature rise, isnt it?

  Hope that helps.

    Mitchell





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:09:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA03228; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:49:23 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:49:23 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b04af586941cd6a [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:51:03 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"6Tt_s2.0.Mo.ImhCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5165
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

May I try to clarify some terminology that has some people going around in
circles here?

IONIZING RADIATION:
   The common definition is: radiation that has enough energy in a SINGLE
particle (electron, proton, photon, etc.) to remove a bound electron from
an atom (eg. ionize an atom).  The defining energy depends on the material
through which the particle is propagating, but 10 eV (well into the UV in
the case of photons) is a typical number.  Note that this definition
excludes ionization by multiple photon processes, eg. microwave discharges.
Ionizing radiation is special for at least a couple of reasons:  Detection
technology usually depends on collecting ions; Ionizing radiation breaks
molecular bonds, which the underlying mechanism by which ionizing radiation
damages living organisms.


Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:10:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA03314; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:49:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:49:32 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:48:44 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321164842.AAA18281 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"8TLmN2.0.ip.QmhCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5166
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 02:42 PM 3/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On Mar 21, 12:12am, Horace Heffner wrote:
>> Subject: RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
>> >Frederick
>> >Your talking about tribo-electricity, where friction of one type
>> >or another separates charges. Gasoline is a particular problem.
>> >Lots of boats and cars have caught fire from it. The hose must
>> >have a grounded metal end, and touch a ground from the
>> >vessel the gas is filling. Even gas cans on an insulated pickup
>> >bed have caused fires.
>> >Hank Scudder
>>
>> Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor. It start due to
>> a slight imbalance of charge between the two conductors, which induces a
>> chrarge imbalance in the water at the drop points. It's a liquid version of
>> the Hemholtz machine.
>
>Sorry Horace, but the effect is not exclusively in the domain of water.  There
>have been many documented spontaneous fires at gas stations because of
>ungrounded plastic gas cans.  It is highly recomened that you place *any*
>gasoline or flamable liquid container on the ground when filling it to
>dissapate the charge build up from the transfer.  Hell of a weenie roast if you
>don't.

This is what got me wondering if the "electrons" that Millikan
measured the charge on, in his famous Oil Drop Experiment are
the same as regular electrons or could there be Lepton pairs of the 
same charge and substantially less mass, that friction generates?
>
>Another thing I don't recomend is leaving linseed oil soaked rags out in the
>sun.  I found out the hard way why the can says 'may spontaneously combust' on
>it.  Lucky for me it was a 'well, look at that!' situation and not an 'oh
>sh**!' moment!
>
>-- 
>John E. Steck 
>Motorola Inc.
>
Regards,  Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:11:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA05424; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:54:38 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:54:38 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321165232.006904ec world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:52:32 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"id0db2.0.bK1.ArhCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5168
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:35 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:
>>
>>   kB is Boltzmann's constant.
>
>No sir. k is Boltzmann's constant when used in proper context, kB confuses
>us mortals. 
>>T is Temperature (Kelvin)
>
>You got that right, and when you see kT you know it is Boltzmann's constant
>times temperature. kBT is confusing as all get-out.  <G>

   Sorry.  k is used as a first order rate constant in all the
equations.   ke   is the first order rate of hydrogen isotope entering a metal.

  kB became used because there were insufficient number of variables. The B
is upper case because it was a persons name.

   Mitchell   

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:13:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA06507; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:00:51 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:00:51 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:00:21 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703211700.LAA16768 natasha.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"tEvKW.0.bb1._whCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5169
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:42 3/21/97 -0600, John Steck wrote:

>> Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor.

>Sorry Horace, but the effect is not exclusively in the domain of water.

Right you are, John.  Every had the "pleasure" of operating a glass-beading
machine?  If you don't ground yourself, the stream of glass beads emerging
from the nozzle charges you up pronto!


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:21:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA06520; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:07:19 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:07:19 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970321170517.0069bbf8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:05:17 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Resent-Message-ID: <"M_QwH.0.ob1.51iCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5170
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:51 AM 3/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>May I try to clarify some terminology that has some people going around in
>circles here?
>
>IONIZING RADIATION:
>   The common definition is: radiation that has enough energy in a SINGLE
>particle (electron, proton, photon, etc.) to remove a bound electron from
>an atom (eg. ionize an atom).  The defining energy depends on the material
>through which the particle is propagating, but 10 eV (well into the UV in
>the case of photons) is a typical number.  Note that this definition
>excludes ionization by multiple photon processes, eg. microwave discharges.
>Ionizing radiation is special for at least a couple of reasons:  Detection
>technology usually depends on collecting ions; Ionizing radiation breaks
>molecular bonds, which the underlying mechanism by which ionizing radiation
>damages living organisms.
>
>
>Michael J. Schaffer
>PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
>Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156
>
>
>


  Thanks, Michael, this is quite succinct. 
 BTW, for medium energy electrons in air it is 34 eV (1957 ICRU).



  Also, these EM photons merge to the visible spectrum through UV-A UV-B and
UV-C, using
a shift to wavelength to represent energy, and using a few regimes which are
roughly

 UV-A     > 320 nm to violet  - tanning wavelengths

 UV-B     290-320 nm          - sunburn, carcinogenic, 
                         blocked by certain sunscreens

and UV-C   < ~ 290 nm        -  breaks biomolecules
    

 Hope that helps.
   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 09:56:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA10471; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:41:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:41:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
Message-Id: <199703211741.JAA00320 shell.skylink.net>
Subject: Quantum Language Barrier
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:41:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"1cRU22.0.XZ2.7XiCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5171
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


For Frank Znidarsic and others who are attempting to 
tunnel through the quantum language barrier, an insightful
and entertaining translation (microwave-to-quantum) is 
copied below. This translation was prepared by a microwave 
engineer. Parallels between quantum physics and classical 
electromagnetics seem to become most evident at short 
wavelengths -- microwaves and optics. 

By the way, I think the FTL transmission of some music by 
Mozart which was demonstrated a year or two ago was based on a
principle similar to the one described below -- "tunneling"
of a signal through an electromagnetic waveguide operating at 
below the cutoff frequency -- except the music was sent
through an optical waveguide. Faster than light? There is a 
website about the FTL experiment. Sorry I don't have the URL.

Regards,
Robert Stirniman

=================================================
Forwarded Message.

From: Peter Somlo <somlo zeta.org.au>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag
Subject: Microwave & particle-physics parallels
Date: Tuesday, March 18, 1997 4:57 PM
 
Hi all,

For your amusement (I hope) here are a few thoughts I had on the
parallels I found relating virtually the same concept to different
descriptions -- depending what 'language' you speak.
 
The same phenomenon may be described in more than one way, and the
main thrust of my note here is to draw attention to the fact that a
lot of `particle physics’ terms (which may look unfamiliar or indeed
mysterious even to some experts in the field) can be described  by
concepts familiar to microwave engineers.
 
The first such concept is particle tunnelling. Particle physicists
talk about a barrier that is not really supposed to be penetrated,
however with a small, but finite probability for passing the barrier,
some particles will do so. I just would like to illuminate a few
details from the microwave point of view that may be helpful is
`clearing the smoke-screen’ created by so many unintentionally. For
instance: when in particle physics it is said: "there is a 1%
probability for this particle to tunnel through the barrier", I may
say: "I have a section of waveguide below cutoff, of such dimensions
(in relation to the free-space wavelength) and length, that the
attenuation of this section is 20 dB." - A very familiar concept
indeed, allowing transmission of 1% of the power only. 
 
Faster than speed of light transmission. When investigating the
detailed behaviour of practical (e.g. copper) waveguides in the
frequency range that spans the below- and above-cutoff regions
continuously, using the Kerns & Hedberg formulation,        
it shows the real and the imaginary  parts of the propagation constant
of a practical waveguide, where these parts represent the attenuation
(in nepers/m) and phase-constant (in rad/m) respectively. 
The practical waveguide below cutoff is a remarkable `component’,
because, to my knowledge, it is the only `component’ where (in the
below cutoff region) the phase constant is decreasing with frequency.
This means that for the non-propagating (evanescent) waves, the
wavelengths at lower frequencies become shorter! Which is a most
unexpected result (however I can explain why this is so - but here it
is not necessary). It can also be said that because the phase constant
has a negative slope below cutoff, the evanescent wave is a (albeit
heavily attenuated) backward wave (Somlo & Hunter, Microwave Impedance
Measurement Peter Peregrinus, 1985, p. 47). 

Some years ago, I investigated the `time of passage’ of a pulse
through a section of a guide below cutoff using computer simulation
using the fact that the Fourier transform of the transmission
coefficient is the impulse response. What I have found was that for a
band-limited pulse with a spectrum below the cutoff, the time of
passage was shorter than velocity of light speed would predict!
However having a closer look, it turned out that this is just an
illusion. What is happening is that considering a pulse with `skirts’
(no matter how small) extending from minus to plus infinity, due to
the negative slope of the phase constant, the relative phases of the
spectral components of the pulse will be `screwed around’ in such a
way, that the peak of the pulse is moved forward and appears somewhere
in the small but finite skirt - as mentioned in your article. There is
no mystery here, information will not be passed faster than with c, it
is only the position of the peak that got shifted. All this can be
investigated, simulated, and understood in terms of the properties of
(the familiar) Fourier transformation. So from my point of view,
tunnelling is nothing else but transmitting a signal through a
below-cutoff medium. 

Incidentally, recently we have shown what the true cutoff frequency
for practical waveguides is: (definition of which will not be found in
any textbook, see: encl.), which is at the frequency where a=b and
therefore at cutoff a practical waveguide is critically damped
(Q=1/2).
 
The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Operating the `Locating
Reflectometer’ the uncertainty principle is observed `in action’: the
wider the frequency-band swept (i.e. the greater the uncertainty in
the frequency domain), the better is the resolution in the time domain
(less uncertainty in the space domain [time is space in a transmission
line]), and it was shown that for the `Locating Reflectometer’ the
product of the two uncertainties is a constant, and is numerically
equal to c/2. To put it another way: if one were asked: "At what
frequency did you perform this measurement?" - the answer would be: "I
don’t know, because I was sweeping the frequency between a and b." -
"And where did you locate the obstacle in the waveguide?" - "I don’t
know, it is somewhere within the spatial resolution of the
instrument." In particle physics, frequency is understood as the
momentum and the time domain means space.
 
The dual nature of light. The perennial question: is light a wave or a
particle? For a microwave engineer there is no problem answering this:
it is both of course. Why? If I have a wave-packet (a pulse) and
examine it in the frequency domain using a spectrum analyser, I will
see its spectrum, so I conclude that it was a wave. However if I look
at it in the time domain with a suitable oscilloscope, I see a
`bullet’ in time so it looks like a particle. No mystery.
 
I hope that you were able to consider the above points of view, which,
I believe, were they more widely known (and taught), would somewhat
simplify for many people some aspects of particle physics. 
 
Cheers,
Peter
 --
 
Dr Peter I Somlo FIEEE | M1: "Every coin has 3 sides - at least"
Microwave Consultant   | M2: "The wind ain't gonna blow from where it
tel/fax: 61-2-9451-2478|      ought'a, it'l blow from where it can"
                   <http://www.zeta.org.au/~somlo>
===================================================================  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 10:08:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA12055; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:55:21 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:55:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:29 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321175427.AAA20978 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"mPG5V.0.Ay2.2kiCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5172
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 05:00 PM 3/21/97 +0000, Scott wrote:
>At 08:42 3/21/97 -0600, John Steck wrote:
>
>>> Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor.
>
>>Sorry Horace, but the effect is not exclusively in the domain of water.
>
>Right you are, John.  Every had the "pleasure" of operating a glass-beading
>machine?  If you don't ground yourself, the stream of glass beads emerging
>from the nozzle charges you up pronto!
>
What polarity Scott? Might be interesting to route those beads into
a barrel of water and rerun the Vortex o-u tests with the water
(your Secret Ingregient?),
or, into a vacuum chamber and use a 3 gauss B field and a 5 kV 
field to mass spec those "electrons".  <G>

When I was in the military operating a radio transmitter station 
on Sandia Base East of Albuquerque in 1951. When we had a dust storm
the rhombic antennas that had several hundred feet of wire would charge
up to horrendous high voltage and arc over in the transmitters even though
there were "horn gap spark gaps" outside that were supposed to dump the
energy from lightning strikes. One helluva unexpected bang since you 
couldn't hear the wind outside.

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 10:23:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA13702; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:11:07 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:11:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:10:18 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321181016.AAA28275 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"FGt7r1.0._L3.uyiCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5173
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 04:51 PM 3/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>At 04:29 PM 3/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>Mitchell wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 1 fishbowl, 10,000 rads midplane dose, 10 MeV photons
>>>What is the incremental temperature increase, Frederick?
>>>
>>
>>Pushy, aren't you?  <g>
>>
>>Lets see. 1 rad is 100 ergs, ie., 1.0E-5 joule dumped into 
>>one gram of material. 4.187 joule will raise the temperature 
>>of water one degree C or K.
>>
>>Thus 10,000 rads of photons (regardless of their energy) will
>>raise one gram of water 10,000*1.0E-5/4.187 = 0.02388 degree C or K.
>>
>>So, it's a small fishbowl. <g>  A rattlesnake's heat sensors can
>>detect that delta T  easily. 
>>
>  
>  Ok, now we have some numbers.
>
> 1.  Are you saying you can accurately detect that incremental
>change of 0.02388 degree C or K? 

I can't, but there is equipment around that can, hands down. How do you
think they calibrated rattlesnakes? <g>

>  
> 2. It doesn't matter what the size of the fishbowl is, does it?

Depends on how many rads you put in. Can you find a good Rad-iometer?
>
>   Given the definition of the rad which is 100 ergs of energy deposited per
>gram of material, that is the MAXIMUM temperature rise, isnt it?

It is for ONE RAD but by definition I could dump a gigarad in by 
mixing in HCl with water.  <G>
>
>  Hope that helps.
>
>    Mitchell
>
>
Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 10:25:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16344; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:12:16 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:12:16 -0800
Message-Id: <199703211812.KAA03802 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:15:01 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: X-Ray Efficiency and more balloon experiments
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <2.2.32.19970321165141.0069892c world.std.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"IaUrK2.0.D_3._ziCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5174
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Fred writes: 
>Thus 10,000 rads of photons (regardless of their energy) will
>raise one gram of water 10,000*1.0E-5/4.187 = 0.02388 degree C or K.
>
>So, it's a small fishbowl. <g>  A rattlesnake's heat sensors can
>detect that delta T  easily. 

No way man.  I grew up being a little boy around rattlesnakes and many a day 
was spent tormenting them with water balloons. Any water balloon filled with 
cool water and dangled near them they would not strike. Only when you had the 
balloon almost full mammalian (human) body temp would they strike it. Surprise 
Mr. Snake. Now it did not appear to hurt them as they always were ready for 
more. In fact it made them not a little angry and some like sidewinders who 
have nasty tempers would then chase us across the dunes. Dumb snakes 
hiarless apes are faster than snakes.  

The data however suggested strongly that rattlesnakes heat sensors seem 
to be able to only resolve tens of degrees not tenths. Come on Fred enough of 
the hip shots. First you've got to learn to be able to hit the target then go 
for the fancy stuff.

Now an older and wiser man I regret tormenting those poor snakes who were much 
happier when we teased them with deer mice. 

Grew up in the wild west, still seem to be there.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 10:34:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA17632; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:23:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:23:37 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:21:10 +0000
Message-ID: <19970321182109.AAA3367 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"T3BOp3.0.QJ4.e8jCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5175
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I think that I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket and go for broke 
on the assumption that it is the big winner! 

Mybe just to be sure even the Irish Sweepstakes ticket too. <G>

Long row to hoe yet, Jed.

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 11:14:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA21759; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:56:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:56:32 -0800
Message-ID: <3332D9B1.77D4 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:55:50 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
References: <970321065832_1151011586 emout06.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"NxDr72.0.vJ5.UdjCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5176
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mike Carrell wrote:

> In brief, Mill's process is able to extract **many** times as much energy
> from atomic hydrogen as can be accomplished by combustion. He has found that
> H atoms can be induced by catalysis to collapse into a non-radiating state
> which is below the nominal ground state, with the yield of energies greater
> than known chemistry but less than nuclear. 

I wonder how stable those hydrinos are. What if we end up with a surplus
of hydrinos leaked into the environment, and they all decide to start
"expanding" one day, sucking the heat out of everything? The perfect
antidote to global warming? Sounds like a plot to a sci-fi story. Maybe
it is. <g>

(BTW, http://www.blacklightpower.com worked ok for me...)

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 12:09:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA29865; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:56:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:56:35 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af58950d4349 [199.237.131.249]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:00:00 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"Vg99N3.0.UI7.nVkCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5177
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 11:00 AM 3/21/97, Scott Little wrote:
>At 08:42 3/21/97 -0600, John Steck wrote:
>
>>> Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor.

The above was written by Heffner (me)

>
>>Sorry Horace, but the effect is not exclusively in the domain of water.
>
>Right you are, John.  Every had the "pleasure" of operating a glass-beading
>machine?  If you don't ground yourself, the stream of glass beads emerging
>from the nozzle charges you up pronto!

I didn't mean to imply other conducting fluids would not work, totally the
contrary. Mercury would work veyr well. The conductivity of water is
necessary due to the droppers being made of glass and/or rubber tubing.
Suggest you try using an insulating oil in place of water. It won't work
unless the droppers themselves are conductive and share a conductive path,
and transfer charge to the surface of the beads like a van de Graaff
generator transfers charge to an insulating belt. The water dropper works
by induced charge, not tribo-electricity or friction, which is the
distinction I was addressing. I don't know anything about a glass beading
machine but that sounds like it might be more of an example of friction
induced electricty.  The Kelvin water dropper is not.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 12:30:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA25001; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:15:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:15:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530504af589b54bcc4 [199.237.131.237]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:18:48 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"wGAkT1.0.W66.NnkCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5178
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 8:42 AM 3/21/97, John Steck wrote:
[snip]
>
>Sorry Horace, but the effect is not exclusively in the domain of water.  There
>have been many documented spontaneous fires at gas stations because of
>ungrounded plastic gas cans.  It is highly recomened that you place *any*
>gasoline or flamable liquid container on the ground when filling it to
>dissapate the charge build up from the transfer.  Hell of a weenie roast if you
>don't.
>
>Another thing I don't recomend is leaving linseed oil soaked rags out in the
>sun.  I found out the hard way why the can says 'may spontaneously combust' on
>it.  Lucky for me it was a 'well, look at that!' situation and not an 'oh
>sh**!' moment!
>
>
>-john
>
>
>
>
>--
>John E. Steck
>Motorola Inc.

Great safety advice, which I take seriously. My coments about the Kelvin
water dropper are only a technical point, but I think it is a valid point
that the Kelvin water dropper was meant to and does demonstrate charge
induction.  Friction plays no role.  I suppose if the distance between
droppers were small enough the dielectric charge induced on an insulating
fluid would work, but it woud be very small if the capacitor dielectric is
a tube several inches long!

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 13:10:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA05583; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:50:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:50:17 -0800
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/0003D08B xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: "hheffner corecom.net" <hheffner@corecom.net>,
        Vortex-L
	 <Vortex-L eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:48:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"RxXIB3.0.7N1.6IlCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5179
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Horace
	Pure distilled water is has very low conductivity. A pH of 7.
Does the generator work better with more conductive solutions?
Hank Scudder
 ----------
From: hheffner corecom.net
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Date: Thursday, March 20, 1997 10:18PM


>Frederick
>Your talking about tribo-electricity, where friction of one type
>or another separates charges. Gasoline is a particular problem.
>Lots of boats and cars have caught fire from it. The hose must
>have a grounded metal end, and touch a ground from the
>vessel the gas is filling. Even gas cans on an insulated pickup
>bed have caused fires.
>Hank Scudder

Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor. It start due
to
a slight imbalance of charge between the two conductors, which induces a
chrarge imbalance in the water at the drop points. It's a liquid version
of
the Hemholtz machine.

Regards,

Horace Heffner


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 13:49:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA06418; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:55:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:55:09 -0800
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/0003D0D6 xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>, Vortex-L <Vortex-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: pair production
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:53:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"5NigC3.0.Ca1.hMlCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5180
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mitchell
	There is no sharp energy cutoff between the different regions of X-ray
attenuation. Photoelectric,
Compton scatter, and pair production all contribute at all energies
between 10 kev and 10 Mev. Different  types of attenuation dominate in
different regions, but all contribute.
Hank Scudder	
 ----------
From: Mitchell Swartz
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: pair production
Date: Friday, March 21, 1997 1:29AM


At 08:34 AM 3/21/97 +0000,  Frederick wrote:
>>  Let us also suppose that the ionizing radiation is 10 MeV photons,
>>so that there can be adequate penetration of the fish tank.  OK?
>
>Ok, Then you will get attenuation of the beam and that loss shows up
>as a temperature increase in the tank, most likely do to Compton
>scattering loss and ionization.

  Nope.  It is neither Compton scattering, nor the photoelectric effect.
It is pair (and triplet) production.  As mentioned in the previous
post, pair production dominates above 2 MeV.

  Hope that helps.  Best wishes.
    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 13:51:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08201; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:06:13 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:06:13 -0800
Date: 21 Mar 97 16:02:05 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Contrite Hydorogen letter
Message-ID: <970321210204_72240.1256_EHB120-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"tjOKU1.0.302.3XlCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5181
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

As Akira Kawasaki noted here, the ICCF6 proceedings have the word "hydrogen"
spelled wrong, on the cover. It is "hydorogen," which is sorta the way it is
pronounced in Japanese. I just received a contrite letter from the NHE. It
came with a package of stickers to cover over the ICCF6 proceedings titles
with "hydrogen" spelled right. The letter says:

     To All Participants:

     Enclosed, please find the stiker (sic) to correct the title of the
     proceedings which we sent you before. Please stick it on the title of
     the coverpage.

     We are very sorry to give you a trouble.

     Sincerely yours,

     Secretariat
     ICCF-6

I am not enclosed, but I found it anyway. Needless to say I shall leave my
ICCF6 books the way they are, as a souvenir. As someone who struggles daily
with a second language, I feel sympathy for non-native speakers who misspell
"hydrogen" and "sticker," and get their commas wrong. On the other hand, I
would never publish a document in Japanese without asking a native speaker to
have a look at it. Making mistakes is not stupid, but when you assume you have
not made one, and you do not bother to ask a native speaker to look at the
manuscript . . . that's stupid! Unfortunately, many insular Japanese
organizations act this way. They don't reach out for help. They do not
consult. They are too cocky to ask for help, and at the same time too
embarrassed. They do not read the literature. They re-invent the wheel.
"Hydorogen" on the front cover is symptomatic of the NHE's larger attitude
problems, which have wrecked their cold fusion research project.

Elliot Kennel says the NHE program is not shutting down, contrary to the
rumors I heard. Perhaps he is right. We'll find out in few weeks. (If it is
closing, I predict the employees will be the last to know.) Perhaps only the
SRI portion of the program is closing. It will be a shame if the program
closes. But if they plan to do the experiment incorrectly 50 times more,
ignoring the best advice from Bockris and so many others, it would be better
to shut it down now.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 14:17:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08227; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:06:18 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:06:18 -0800
Date: 21 Mar 97 16:02:21 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Home co-generation units
Message-ID: <970321210220_72240.1256_EHB120-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"2N1mM1.0.L02.6XlCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5182
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

In my messages about small CF home generators, I should have made it clear
that I am thinking of co-generators (co-gen), that produce electricity and use
the waste heat for hot water and space heating. Thus, one machine eliminates
the cost of both electricity and gas heating. Home co-gen are already sold,
by:

Intelligen Energy Systems, Inc.
98 South Street
Hopkinton MA 01748

508-435-9007

Their sales literature says:

     * 93% efficiency rate; works like other heating systems-only better! [I
     presume this means that 7% of the heat goes up the chimney. That is what
     you would expect with a well-engineered gas space heater.]

     * Perfect for homes with current monthly electric bills of $100 or more

     * National Energy & Popular Science Awards

     * Get double duty from your heating and let the electric company pay you
     for a change!

     WHEN INTELLIGEN SENDS UP THE HEAT, YOUR ELECTRIC BILLS GO DOWN . . . WAY
     DOWN!

The machines cost $8,500. It is easy to see why they are good for people who
pay $100 or more in electricity. If the machine reduces your electric bill to
zero in during the cold months in New England winters (October through May,
says Gene), that would save ~$700 per year, which is an 8.2% return on your
money. Of course it will not cost a dime extra in space heating, because after
you use the energy to generate electricity for yourself, you get every joule
back to warm your toes with. The machine takes little extra space because you
have to have a furnace anyway. Your furnace might as well be a generator too.
The extra machinery doesn't take up much space, judging from the photograph.
That's what I have in mind when I say CF energy will be built into future
machines. We have to have washing machines anyway, with bulky electric motors
in them to turn the agitator. Take out the electric motor, put in a
third-generation CF motor that spins the agitator directly with a steam
turbine, and your total bill for extra equipment is zero. Your total bill for
"operation, maintenance and decommissioning" the energy generator + washing
machine will be the same as it was for your old electric washing machine
alone. You decommission by having the guy from Sears haul it away. Today, the
energy to turn your washing machine is generated externally, and the generator
must be maintained and decommissioning independently. I predict the generator
will shrink, and finally submerge with the motor, and the maintenance cost
will be the same as it was for the old electric motor. (Zero, in my case; I
just change the belts.)

The 8.2% return on your money for a gas-fired co-gen is better than most banks
pay. How much would a home CF co-gen be worth? Well, if you live in New
England, you probably pay about $1500 per year for heating oil, and around
$1200 for electricity, $2700 total. You would not shut down the co-gen during
the summer months. You would simply vent the heat outside instead. So you
eliminate both utility bills, year 'round. What would that be worth? Suppose a
CF co-gen machine cost $13,000 -- half again as much as the units already
sold. If the machine lasted 15 years, the way most furnaces do, it would pay
for itself in 4.8 years and put $27,500 extra in your pocket before it finally
died. That's $1800 per year over the life of the machine, or 14.1% return on
investment. Is there anyone reading this forum who would not be excited by the
opportunity to invest $13,000 and get that kind of return?

(Actually it is more like 17%, because if you don't buy a CF co-gen, you have
to spend $2000 on a conventional furnace anyway.)

And the truth is, Intelligen Energy Systems Inc. has only a tiny share of the
U.S. market for heaters, so I am sure their unit cost is much higher than a
mass-produced CF co-gen would be. I see no reason why a first-generation
Toshiba CF co-gen for a good sized house should cost more than $5000. That
would give most families above the Mason-Dixon line a 48% return on
investment, or 79% taking into account what the furnace would cost anyway.
Most middle class families have never dreamed of making that kind of money on
an investment. Say your old furnace dies when your kid is three years old. You
go to Sears where you have a choice of a conventional furnace for $1500 to
$2000, or a co-gen for $5000. You pick the latter and by the time it wears
out, your kid is ready for college and you have saved $35,500, plus enough to
buy another co-gen.

You see why the economics of cold fusion are irresistible. This technology
will put the electric power companies and gas companies out of business in 15
years -- the time it takes most furnaces and water heaters to wear out and be
replaced by CF units. Power companies already operate on thin margins. There
is no way they could cut their prices fast enough to compete with this, even
if their fuel bill dropped to zero. And of course, it would not drop to zero,
because the power companies would take decades to replace all of their monster
generators with CF, whereas a homeowner could do the job for himself in one
day. The homeowner's total installed base of power generating equipment is
zero. He can make nimble economic choices. The burden of the installed base
will work against the power companies, just as the burden of mainframe
computers slows down old-line companies in competition against companies that
rely on personal computers. What it boils down to is that the aggregate cost
of maintaining old fashioned, high Carnot efficiency equipment, plus a
distribution network, PLUS all those furnaces and water heaters in people's
houses comes to *far more* than the cost of replacing the whole enchilada with
CF co-gen units.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 14:19:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA09535; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:06:35 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:06:35 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC3600.EDAE1500 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:05:26 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"VSaaa2.0.uK2.ePmCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5183
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Rick Monteverde wrote:

>I wonder how stable those hydrinos are. What if we end up with a =
surplus
>of hydrinos leaked into the environment, and they all decide to start
>"expanding" one day, sucking the heat out of everything? The perfect
>antidote to global warming? Sounds like a plot to a sci-fi story. Maybe
>it is. <g>

I was wondering about that too... except in the context of using the =
"expanding" to accomplish real work in the form of refrigeration. Say =
you heat your house all winter, creating a bunch of collapsed hydrogen. =
Pump some of it to your refrigerator; save most of it for summer to use =
it for air conditioning. How easy is it to get the stuff to go =
endothermic?

Dan 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 14:50:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA12594; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:38:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:38:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33330DE9.28F6 interlaced.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:38:33 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
References: <970321153803_72240.1256_EHB122-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"AXXve.0.c43.QtmCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5184
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 
(snip)
> A good example! High operating temperature and corrosion resistance are
> essential features in our present energy conversion technology because the
> fuel is so expensive.

Many of your points are good ones, Jed, but the details lead to some
complexities:

	1. Fuel cost is only one reason to run power plants at high
	   temperature.  One MAJOR concern in design is THE HIGH COST
	   OF HEAT TRANSFER SURFACE.  Drive by one of many Nuke plants
	   and the first thing you see is the Hyperbolic cooling tower
	   looming in the distance!  Getting rid of the waste heat is a
	   major economic and environmental problem.  True, it does
	   seem that we should try to use waste heat in better ways -
	   like distributing low grade steam to buildings as was done
	   in Cleveland, OH in "the old days".  I guess it was cheap oil
	   and natural gas that put an end to that - I'm not sure.
	   At any rate, a 300 degC CF heat source would have a potential
	   Carnot efficiency of about 48 percent.  We would probably
	   be delirious with joy to get, say, 33 % in a small system.
	   I assumed a 20 degC bottom temp for the cycle so, for my
	   1 or 2 hp chain saw, I need a cooling heat exchanger that
	   can dump 3 to 6 hp of waste heat at low temp (We would 
	   probably take the efficiency hit and raise the bottom temp
	   unless we sold the system to Horace.)  The heat exchanger
	   might well dominate the system cost and it would dominate
	   the SIZE.
	2. Or, chuck the heat exchanger and go open cycle like the old
	   steam engines did.  All your distributed small engines
	   will be spewing warm vapor all over the place - which might
	   be OK until you realize just how much deionized feed water
	   you need to feed the little beasts.  Deionized water because
	   we can't afford to crud up all that expensive heat transfer
	   surface with boiler scale!  But, of course, our personal CF
	   powered still back home makes all we need.  Oh dear, we need
	   a lot more feed water for our car - add some more cooling
	   surface to maintain back home - or, ion exchange membrane
	   (good for their business!).
	3. ICEs are convienient because they are open cycle and use no
	   cooling except to keep the mechanical parts at working temp.
	   They have a high output per pound because of this and because
	   they use such a high top temp.
	   If you run CF engines open cycle, you probably need water
	   as a working fluid because of its benign environmental
	   impact.  Water is not the first choice for working fluid
	   if you want a 15 year, low cost power system - hot water is
	   nasty stuff on cheap materials.  Sneaky refrigerators use
	   an almost inert working fluid and lubricant in a sealed
	   system and 15 years is no problem - but there's all that 
	   expensive heat transfer surface again!

But, what the heck, CF would be a boon to all the low-grade heat needs
of the world - if they come up with a better loading process than
electrolysis - none of my electrolysis systems are very free or long
lasting!  I guess the car battery isn't too bad though.

Just some thoughts---------- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 15:08:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA25214; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:57:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:57:26 -0800
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:57:10 +1100 (EST)
From: Martin Sevior <msevior liszt.ph.unimelb.EDU.AU>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of Energy: True cost is people's time and expertise.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970320140554.14532A-100000 iesun9>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970322094725.15205A-100000 liszt.ph.unimelb.EDU.AU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"kfeN63.0.u96.K9nCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5185
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Remi Cornwall wrote:

> Vortexians,
> 
> For the love of humanity just remember this: you can harness, exploit or 
> enslave nature but you can't do the same to humans.
> 
> Free energy: pay for brains behind it via patents, pay for engineers who 
> develop it. Pay for guys who maintain it.
> 
> This fits in nicely with my politcal views (oh God! It's election time in
> England) of small government, low taxes...
> 

These brains have to be trained. Do you favour an entirely user-pays system
of Education? The cost of an undergraduate Science or Engineering degree
would be around 10k pounds within a factor of 2. A Ph.D. would cost at 
least another 30k pounds. Those costs don't include staying alive during 
full time study. Do you want to get the best and the brightest to remain 
in higher education and research? Then ya gotta pay 'em.

Governments have a role in delivering Social Justice and the infrastructure
required to do advanced research and development.

Martin Sevior

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 16:05:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA00649; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:49:42 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:49:42 -0800
Date: 21 Mar 97 17:11:41 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Oil Companies the Culprits?
Message-ID: <970321221141_72240.1256_EHB131-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"68zhi.0.u9.KwnCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5186
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Hal describes his friends at the oil companies:

     My question: "What would be the response of your company?"  The answer,
     unanimously, was: "We would welcome it.  When we take our precious
     resource out of the ground to make nylons, plastics, drugs, etc., we
     don't use up much and we have a large profit margin.  When we take it
     out of the ground to power automobiles and heat people's homes, it's
     like heating your home by burning van Goghs and Picassos.  Please take
     this burden off our industry.  And, BTW, let us buy some to make our
     refineries more efficient."

If they honestly believe that, they have not thought the matter through
carefully. With a zero cost, infinitely large supply of energy, nobody will
bother digging oil out of the ground. Petrochemical feedstocks will be
synthesized at the plastics factory, out of air and water. That will be safer,
cheaper, easier, and more convenient than transporting oil from Saudi Arabia
or Texas. The process will be automated, so you always have just enough stock
when you need it, and you don't have to pay a trucker to drive dangerous
chemicals over long distances two days late. The company that makes the oil
synthesizer machine will earn a little, but nobody else will.

As the Zen Buddhists put it, the oil companies will be selling water by the
river.

Only 18% of oil is used in non-energy applications today. I find it very hard
to believe that these executives would be so sanguine at the prospect of
losing 82% of their business. They get the same amount of money per barrel
whether people burn the stuff or make nylon out of it, so why should they care
what the customer does? I think they were giving Hal a line. If they honestly
believed there is any likelihood that CF or ZPE is going to grab 82% of their
business, they would panic, they would be furious, and they would try every
tactic in the book to torpedo CF. That is how the hot fusion people reacted
back in '89. That is how most people react to new technology that threatens
their pocketbook. It is futile, but people always try to stop the tide from
coming in. I recall the mainframe and minicomputer people laughing at the
first microcomputers, and saying things like Hal's oil execs: "Why should
these things upset us? We'll use them to improve our production line! We have
even installed a micro in the 32-bit Data General MV8000 to monitor the main
CPU. But micros are toys; they are no threat to our core business. Heck, they
don't even have hard disks." Yeah, right, and the railroads were pleased to
get the business from Henry Ford hauling all that iron ore to his plants,
until around 1925 when they realized they were helping to bankrupt themselves.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 16:18:35 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA03502; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:07:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:07:55 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:07:33 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33342379.1900599 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970319195344.AAA26264 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970319195344.AAA26264 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.387
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"PIBnA1.0.Us.NBoCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5187
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:53:46 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>>        No, microwave ovens operate at one of the water molecule resonant
>>frequencies, at 2.something GHz.  This is a broad (low Q) resonance.  Like
>>most molecules, H2O has several resonances.
>
>The microwave oven frequency is 2.45 Gigahertz and heating effect is based
>on the conductivity of water or bacon fat not much on an absorption effect.
>The microwave or infrared absorption for water starts around 12 Gigahertz
>with a peak at 20 Ghz increasing on into the millimeter and infrared
>frequencies.
[snip]
Given that pure water is a dielectric, should we then assume that the
conductivity of water at 2.45 GHz is due to the presence of ions in
solution? And if so, does it vary depending on the species?
(I don't have a microwave, so I can't try this).


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 17:50:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA00318; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:40:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:40:33 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:39:10 +0000
Message-ID: <19970322013908.AAA16608 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"YIE4Q3.0.q4.EYpCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5188
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:07 AM 3/22/97 +0000, Robin wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:53:46 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>>
>>The microwave oven frequency is 2.45 Gigahertz and heating effect is based
>>on the conductivity of water or bacon fat not much on an absorption effect.
>>The microwave or infrared absorption for water starts around 12 Gigahertz
>>with a peak at 20 Ghz increasing on into the millimeter and infrared
>>frequencies.
>[snip]
>Given that pure water is a dielectric, should we then assume that the
>conductivity of water at 2.45 GHz is due to the presence of ions in
>solution? And if so, does it vary depending on the species?
>(I don't have a microwave, so I can't try this).
>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
>
Anecdotal information first. The conductivity of high purity
water free of CO2 is about 1.5E-9 ohm-meters at 20 C (you can
see water taking CO2 out of the atmosphere by watching a
conductivity meter). Sea water runs about 3.0 ohm-meters,
and lake water about 0.01 ohm-meters.

The relative permittivity of water (80) also comes into the equation.
Water is highly polar due to the positive charge of the two hydrogen
atoms and the oxygen negative end of this electric dipole.

With this  dipole effect a water molecule will swing in an electric
field the same as a compass needle in a magnetic field. This also
helps the microwave oven do it's job. This effect is used in industry
for curing plastics (it's called dielectric heating) where the plastic 
is placed between plates and a high voltage r.f. field is applied to
the plates. The hysteresis causes heating and thus curing of the plastic.

In answer to your question so-called "auto-ionization" of of high 
purity water is responsible for it's conductivity at any temperature
or frequency. 1E7 ions/liter at 20 C the basis for the ion product 
constant and pH etc.  Small electron pairs,Perhaps?  <G>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 18:12:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA04169; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:01:23 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:01:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net> (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net>)
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 02:00:35 +0000
Message-ID: <19970322020034.AAA25127 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"AasPt.0.211.mrpCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5189
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:07 AM 3/22/97 +0000, Robin wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:53:46 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>>
>>The microwave oven frequency is 2.45 Gigahertz and heating effect is based
>>on the conductivity of water or bacon fat not much on an absorption effect.
>>The microwave or infrared absorption for water starts around 12 Gigahertz
>>with a peak at 20 Ghz increasing on into the millimeter and infrared
>>frequencies.
>[snip]
>Given that pure water is a dielectric, should we then assume that the
>conductivity of water at 2.45 GHz is due to the presence of ions in
>solution? And if so, does it vary depending on the species?
>(I don't have a microwave, so I can't try this).
>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>

Corrections etc.
>
Anecdotal information first. The conductivity of high purity
water free of CO2 is about 6.66E-10 mho-meters at 20 C (you can
see water taking CO2 (CO2 + H2O = H+ & HCO3-)out of the atmosphere 
by watching a conductivity meter). Sea water runs about 3.0 mho-meters,
and lake water about 0.01 mho-meters.

The relative permittivity of water (80) also comes into the equation.
Water is highly polar due to the positive charge of the two hydrogen
atoms and the oxygen negative end of this electric dipole.

With this  dipole effect a water molecule will swing in an electric
field the same as a compass needle in a magnetic field. This also
helps the microwave oven do it's job. This effect is used in industry
for curing plastics (it's called dielectric heating) where the plastic 
is placed between plates and a high voltage r.f. field is applied to
the plates. The hysteresis causes heating and thus curing of the plastic.

The mobility of the ions definitely establish conductivity values
they are referenced to the mobility of the potassium and chlorine ion.
apparently both are close in mass and size. Mobility is given in 
in meters/sec/volt/meter etc. So cencentration and type of ion determines 
the conductivity.

In answer to your question so-called "auto-ionization" of of high 
purity water is responsible for it's conductivity at any temperature
or frequency. 1E7 ions/liter at 20 C the basis for the ion product 
constant and pH etc.  Small electron pairs,Perhaps?  <G>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 19:56:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA16853; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:46:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:46:48 -0800
Date: 21 Mar 97 22:43:39 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Cost of energy - waste heat problem
Message-ID: <970322034339_72240.1256_EHB136-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"0it8.0.F74.cOrCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5190
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Frank Stenger writes:

     Getting rid of the waste heat is a major economic and environmental
     problem.

I believe it is only a problem with concentrated, centralized power
generation.


     True, it does seem that we should try to use waste heat in better ways -
     like distributing low grade steam to buildings as was done in Cleveland,
     OH in "the old days".

That's co-generation. It was done in New York City and many other urban
locations. It is a darn good idea.


     At any rate, a 300 degC CF heat source would have a potential Carnot
     efficiency of about 48 percent.  We would probably be delirious with joy
     to get, say, 33 % in a small system.

Oh, I doubt it would be as good as that. According to EPRI, the most efficient
advanced generators, which are based on jet engine technology I believe, get
50% efficiency. Taking into account transmission losses, the average for the
installed base is 30 to 35%. I was assuming the first generation CF co-gen
units would get between 5% (thermoelectric) to 20% (scaled-down turbines or
what-have-you.) I am not sure what the Intelgen system gets.

I did a very rough estimate of the waste heat that is dumped into the
atmosphere today based on the Sci. Am. table of energy use by major sector
(transportation, electric generation, space heating, industrial, etc.) and the
efficiency of ICEs (15%), electric power generators (35%), space heating (90%)
and so on. I figure that if we can make CF motors and generators about 20 to
25% efficient, we can significantly cut back worldwide generation of waste
heat. That is especially true in the winter in cold climates, where co-gens
would virtually eliminate space heating. With small-scale co-gen, you would
move the 70% of energy now lost at electric plants into the customer's houses.
With CF auto engines at 25% there would be a tremendous reduction in waste
heat compared to ICE. Even if the electric generation sector becomes much
less efficient after it is split into millions of individual home generators,
the reduction in transportation sector waste heat would make up for it.

By the way, if you can get o-u electric device to work, like a magic magnet
motor or the Correa device . . . then, by golly, all bets are off. That would
cut world wide generation of waste heat to by about 80%. I don't think I
believe in any form of o-u electricity, but I do not totally disbelieve
either.


     The heat exchanger might well dominate the system cost and it would
     dominate the SIZE.

Well, the size doesn't seem so bad in the Intelgen photo.


     Or, chuck the heat exchanger and go open cycle like the old steam
     engines did.  All your distributed small engines will be spewing warm
     vapor all over the place - which might be OK until you realize just how
     much deionized feed water you need to feed the little beasts.

Well, I can't imagine that would work! I should think it would be dangerous
for automotive applications. It might scald pedestrians. Those self-driving
cars set in the no-park auto-roam mode that we invented could be a real
menace. I can see them now, lurching down sidewalks, up alleys, and through
the grass in city parks, swerving hither and yon in search of old ladies to
run down, and spewing steam from the back and sides. Yes, urban life will be
lively, thanks to cold fusion!

Howard Hughes tried to make a steam powered car in the 1930s but the need for
large radiators defeated him. Someone told me the problem would be
considerably easier today. I have seen photos of experimental steam engines on
buses in California. They do not look particularly large, but I don't know how
big the radiators are. I do not think they are open cycle.


     Water is not the first choice for working fluid if you want a 15 year,
     low cost power system - hot water is nasty stuff on cheap materials.
     Sneaky refrigerators use an almost inert working fluid and lubricant in
     a sealed system and 15 years is no problem - but there's all that
     expensive heat transfer surface again!

I don't know much about it, but I assume the fluid would be something like
Freon, or whatever they use in refrigerators these days. I have been thinking
of this machine as a reverse refrigerator, in a sealed unit.


     I guess the car battery isn't too bad though.

Yes, even electrolytic systems can be kept clean, if they are factory sealed.
And it isn't as if you have to top off the heavy water every week!

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 21 22:16:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA03997; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:05:30 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:05:30 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af591d73d020 [199.237.131.237]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 21:08:39 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: RE: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"tczzT.0.N-.bQtCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5191
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 12:48 PM 3/21/97, Scudder,Henry J wrote:
>Horace
>        Pure distilled water is has very low conductivity. A pH of 7.
>Does the generator work better with more conductive solutions?
>Hank Scudder
> ----------

No, I don't think so. Even very pure water, i.e. "megohm water", conducts
plenty well when it comes to "HV static" electricity.  The capacitance of a
0.1 cm drop of water is only C = 0.556x10^-12(0.1)F = 5.56x10^-14 F. Let's
assume a surface charge of 10 KV can be induced.  That gives a total charge
of Q = CV = (5.56x10^-14 F)(1x10^4 V) = 5.56x10^-10 C. Given an average
drip rate of 20 drops per second that's 6.18x10-8 C/s, or an average
current of about 0.006 uA.  Given each drop has an opposing sign there is a
20 KV potential difference between drops, so there would have to be a
resistance of R = V/I = (1x10^4 V)/(6.18x10-8 A) = 1.6x10^11 ohms to
prevent the needed current to support that drip rate and charge
equalization rate.

Looked at another way, a water resistance of 1 megohm would provide a
charge time constant of T = RC = (1x10^6 ohm)(5.56x10^-14 F) = 5.56x10^-8
s, which gives a charging time 5T of about 0.28 us. At that rate you could
charge about 4 million drops per second.

Hope I got all that right, but you get the idea. Very large static charges
quickly arise from very small one-way currents.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 01:44:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA05616; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3333A7E6.5105 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 23:35:37 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Contrite Hydorogen letter
References: <970321210204_72240.1256_EHB120-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"x-tz12.0.cN1.CWwCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5192
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed -

I *love* those translation gaffes; some are irresistable. There used to
be a little stiker [sic] on a certain popular brand of rice cooker that
translated some sort of product slogan that was probably much more
poetic in Japanese. But through my fractured sense of humor, I saw a
hidden message in it as the very essence of optimism itself. Indeed if
one is willing to look carefully enough even, superficially at least,
things seem to be heading 'south' at a rapid pace:

"Hark, hark, there be nice goods nearby."

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 05:16:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA12653; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 05:05:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 05:05:13 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970322130308.006ae3f4 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:03:08 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Resent-Message-ID: <"NgKxq3.0.c53.6azCp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5193
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:39 AM 3/22/97 +0000, Robin and Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>>>
>>>The microwave oven frequency is 2.45 Gigahertz and heating effect is based
>>>on the conductivity of water or bacon fat not much on an absorption effect.
>>>The microwave or infrared absorption for water starts around 12 Gigahertz
>>>with a peak at 20 Ghz increasing on into the millimeter and infrared
>>>frequencies.
>>[snip]

>>Given that pure water is a dielectric, should we then assume that the
>>conductivity of water at 2.45 GHz is due to the presence of ions in
>>solution? And if so, does it vary depending on the species?
>>(I don't have a microwave, so I can't try this).

>Anecdotal information first. The conductivity of high purity
>water free of CO2 is about 1.5E-9 ohm-meters at 20 C (you can
>see water taking CO2 out of the atmosphere by watching a
>conductivity meter). Sea water runs about 3.0 ohm-meters,
>and lake water about 0.01 ohm-meters.
>
>The relative permittivity of water (80) also comes into the equation.
>Water is highly polar due to the positive charge of the two hydrogen
>atoms and the oxygen negative end of this electric dipole.
>
>With this  dipole effect a water molecule will swing in an electric
>field the same as a compass needle in a magnetic field. 


  
 The units of conductivity are not ohm-meters.
 The value of resistivity of "pure" water is about ~18 10+6 ohm-cm
without CO2 and about ~1-1.2 10+6 ohm-cm with CO2 equilibrium achieved.

  The molecular image here is also a far way off.
 Actually, there are 4 hydrogen bonds per H2O molecule, each of energy
4.5 kc/mole.  Three must be broken (13.5 kilocalories/mole), and the
molecule rotates and vibrates (a combination of an asymm IR vibration and
microwave rotation) so that TWO H are put on one O-O bridge. and none
on the other (a L defect).  These defects (D-, and L-defects) then 
drift in the applied E field. The 13.5 kc/m is seen as the activation
energy of the major dielectric spectrum of type Ih ice.


  Summary: the water molecule is NOT free to rotate. In water, only
about 1 in 6 H-bonds is broken at any time. There is not enough
energy to break all the bonds.

  Rather, the defects formed from H2O molecule rotation and assymetric
vibration then drift into ellipsoids in the applied electric field intensity.
  This is the origin of the large real part of the complex permittivity.

  Hope that helps.
    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 05:42:33 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04487; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 05:07:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 05:07:17 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970322130516.006751e8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:05:16 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"c3UK31.0.z51.3czCp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5194
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A

At 11:00 AM 3/21/97 -0900, you wrote:
>At 11:00 AM 3/21/97, Scott Little wrote:
>>At 08:42 3/21/97 -0600, John Steck wrote:
>>
>>>> Don't think so. It works only because water is a conductor.
>
>The above was written by Heffner (me)
>
>>
>>>Sorry Horace, but the effect is not exclusively in the domain of water.
>>
>>Right you are, John.  Every had the "pleasure" of operating a glass-beading
>>machine?  If you don't ground yourself, the stream of glass beads emerging
>>from the nozzle charges you up pronto!
>
>I didn't mean to imply other conducting fluids would not work, totally the
>contrary. Mercury would work veyr well. The conductivity of water is
>necessary due to the droppers being made of glass and/or rubber tubing.
>Suggest you try using an insulating oil in place of water. It won't work
>unless the droppers themselves are conductive and share a conductive path,
>and transfer charge to the surface of the beads like a van de Graaff
>generator transfers charge to an insulating belt. The water dropper works
>by induced charge, not tribo-electricity or friction, which is the
>distinction I was addressing. I don't know anything about a glass beading
>machine but that sounds like it might be more of an example of friction
>induced electricty.  The Kelvin water dropper is not.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
>
>

  Horace, it is not only conductivity that determines whether these
machines work.
  Actually the requirement involves the dielectric relaxation time 
which is the ratio of the real part of the complex permittivity 
(the dielectric constant * free space permittivity)to the 
electrical conductivity. There refs were posted previously here on this.

  Best wishes.   Hope that helps.
  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com(


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 06:16:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA07585; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 05:41:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 05:41:06 -0800
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:40:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970322084029_-1705615614 emout15.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"gjxgw1.0.Rs1.n5-Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5195
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Concerning the collapsed hydrogen atoms, my understanding is that they stay
collapsed, and comprise the dark matter of the universe which cosmologists
believe must be present but undetectable. Collapsing hydrogen atoms is one of
the fuels of the sun, which is why the neutrino flux isn't what previous
theories predicted. No fear, there is enough hydrogen to support any new
hydrogen feeding frenzy by mankind.

There are degrees of collapse into fractional quantum states, each triggered
by a collision with a resonant energy hole. None of the collapsed states
radiate. 

I do not pretend to have a good grasp of Mills work, although I have paged
through-- I won't say "read" his book. Before anyone jumps to any
conclusions, go read the 100+ pages at the web site. You will need the Adobe
Acrobat reader to access the theoretical pages because there is lots of math.
The reader is available as a free download. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 07:45:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA21843; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 07:36:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 07:36:14 -0800
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:35:31 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703221535.JAA27564 dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com>
From: aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki )
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Cc: aki ix.netcom.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"788Eu.0.DL5.jn_Cp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5196
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

March 22, 1997

Just a meandering thought: Is the ultimate collapsed state of the 
Hydrogen, the Neutron? Then is Deuterium and Tritium a collapsed state 
of a Hydrogen molecule? Wonder, wonder.

-AK-

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 08:16:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA25190; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:07:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:07:21 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:06:41 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970322110640_1053302668 emout09.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: collapse??
Resent-Message-ID: <"gUvsw3.0.V96.uE0Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5197
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I believe the R. Mills may be close to the truth in his collapsing model of
the atom.  He just missed the mark a little.  For one his conclusion that
energy may be extraced from degenerate states is  probably correct.  My
process is similar to Mill's except the degenerate states are packed in an
electron condensation.  The condensation is so dense that the degenerate
state evanscence.  In this situation spontanious forces are produced.  Force
is NOT a conserved quantity.  Force time sdistance generates positive energy.
 Energy is conserved.

E = F*d

Force times distance generates negative gravitational potential.

P = G/(ccr) (force)*d

The sum of the two forms of energy equals zero.  Wha-laa the process
conserves energy but doesn't conserve force.  OK in my book.

Mills model has a big problem.  Where are the collapsed atoms?  If they are
energitically favorable they should be everywhere.  The universe should be
full of collapased atoms.  The easy way to tell where the energy levels of an
atom lie is to observe the spectrum of any emitted light.  I bet the spectrum
of Mill's looks typically like hydrogen.

My model requires negative gravitational potential and postive energy to be
everywhere.  Look around, it's there.

Frank Znidarsic                 fznidarsic aol.com
481 Boyer St.                   http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html
Johnstown, Pa.   15906


Automatic links:<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/FZNIDARSIC/index.html">
Home_Page</A>
<A HREF="mailto:fznidarsic aol.com">Send_E-mail </A>



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 08:57:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA28315; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:36:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 08:36:22 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 16:35:43 +0000
Message-ID: <19970322163541.AAA29733 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"mcifg.0.Hw6.4g0Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5198
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:35 PM 3/22/97 +0000, AK wrote:
>March 22, 1997
>
>Just a meandering thought: Is the ultimate collapsed state of the 
>Hydrogen, the Neutron? Then is Deuterium and Tritium a collapsed state 
>of a Hydrogen molecule? Wonder, wonder.
>
>-AK-
>
Don't think so. The neutron decay to a proton plus an electron
and an antineutrino wouldn't balance out, and Deuterium-Tritium
wouldn't either.

However, there may be a connection to the proposed 
"Light Electron-Positron" pairs. The light electron could
give the small hydrogen (1H1*) or deuterium (1H2*)and (1H3*) bound 
states that Mills claims, without question. But, this this would 
leave a regular electron to balance the charge of the positive light 
particle in the environment. 
Static electricity connection here also? <G>

The bound or small hydrogen may go into a nucleus and give the
other CF phenomena and possibly expel the light electron putting
things back in order where eventually the lights can be brought
into close proximity to annihilate as in the other (vortex) phenomena.

Regards,       Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:09:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA05623; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:59:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:59:45 -0800
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:59:37 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: "Kelvin's Thunderstorm"
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970322130516.006751e8 world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970322092943.27666A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"DgUqo.0.nN1.Gu1Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5199
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Mitchell Swartz wrote:

>   Horace, it is not only conductivity that determines whether these
> machines work.
>   Actually the requirement involves the dielectric relaxation time 
> which is the ratio of the real part of the complex permittivity 
> (the dielectric constant * free space permittivity)to the 
> electrical conductivity. There refs were posted previously here on this.

No, it is definitely conductivity alone which makes the "Kelvin
Thunderstorm" operate.  The charge on the falling droplets is on the
surface, so the field within is zero and dielectric effects are
unimportant.  If an infinite-resistance fluid was used, the droplets at
the dropper tips might aquire dielectric polarization, but when they
detached from the bulk of the fluid, they would not carry net charge along
with them.  They would behave more like magnetized iron, which always has
*two* poles when broken in two parts.  In order to transport charge,
charged particles must actually flow into the dropper tip, then be
transported downwards as the droplet falls.  This flow is a genuine
electric current, implying that conductivity is required.  The Kelvin
Thunderstorm machine is a charge pump with a complete circuit (complete in
the sense that the output charges a capacitor), and there is an actual
electric current in the pipes and droplet-streams when it is operating. 
This requires conductive fluid. I'm not sure that oil would fail to work,
since the generator only requires tera-ohms range of conductivity. 
Surface leakage of realworld oil might provide enough conductivity, if
grounded metal eyedroppers were used to provide a short path between
ground and the droplets.

I have two build-it projects on my webpage dealing with this device.  One
is the classic "coffee can" version, modified with window screens across
the bottom cans so the cans don't fill up and require emptying.  The
second version is "in line", a series of rings and screens which water
sprinkles through.  After coming up with the "inline" version, I realized
that I'd heard of it before: the B-2 bomber antigravity rumors indicate
that a megavolt electrostatic generator is built into the jet engines.  An
inline-Kelvin-Thunderstorm device would work nicely, and perhaps the
conductivity of the exhaust gasses could be improved by seeding with some
metal salts.

I just re-read Mitchell Swartz' above message, and maybe he's referring to
the permittivity of air.  The surrounding medium *would* affect the
process.  An interesting variation would be to operate one of these
devices immersed in a tank of oil, using water as the operating fluid.  I
bet that a much higher output voltage would be attainable.  However,
gravity would rapidly become too weak to pull the droplets to the
alike-charged receivers against the strong repulsion.  The water would
have to be pumped at high velocity. 


I've managed to coax both these generators into powering a pop-bottle/
aluminum-foil electrostatic motor.

  http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/kelvin.txt    CLASSIC VERSION
  http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/ikelv.txt     INLINE VERSION
  http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/statelec.html ELECTROSTATICS PAGE
  http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/vdg.html      VANDEGRAAFF PAGE

.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:10:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA05941; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:02:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:02:14 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Cygnus X-3, Cygnons, and Light Pairs.
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 18:01:35 +0000
Message-ID: <19970322180134.AAA5159 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"OlEUj2.0.lS1.bw1Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5200
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

In the mid-eighties obsevation of the air showers from Cygnus X-3
led investigators conclude that in some of the showers there seems
to be a particle that was labeled the "Cygnon".

It cannot be a charged particle because the galactic magnetic field
would cause it to move in large spirals. It cannot be a neutron because
even with time dilation the 15 minute lifetime of the neutron wouldn't
survive the 40,000 light year trip to Earth.

It cannot be a neutral atom, because there is enough hydrogen in the
40,000 light year path to strip off it's electrons.

It has to be a neutral particle or particle pair with a rest mass
less than 1/100th the rest mass of the electron. Thus it cannot be
Mills' "Hydrino". 

A duck, perhaps?     <G>

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:12:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA06181; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:03:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:03:45 -0800
Message-Id: <m0w8V7v-0004X5C mirage.skypoint.com>
From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:02:47 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <199703221535.JAA27564 dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> from "Akira Kawasaki" at Mar 22, 97 09:35:31 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"phmeP2.0.VW1.0y1Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5201
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Akira wrote:
> Is the ultimate collapsed state of the Hydrogen, the Neutron?

Keep in mind that free neutrons spontaneously decay into protons
and electrons plus some released energy, the half life of a
free neutron being something on the order of 8-12 minutes.

So obviously a hydrogen proton will never capture its electron
without the input of energy from an external source.

-- 
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  612-699-9472 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:37:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA09215; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:28:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:28:45 -0800
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:27:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Steve Ekwall <ekwall2 diac.com>
X-Sender: ekwall2 november
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: T e s t  Ignore please
In-Reply-To: <970322084029_-1705615614 emout15.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.3.95.970322112530.18268C-100000 november>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"6FTux1.0.rF2.SJ2Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5202
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


 p in g * vortex-l group  sorry to bother you with this
end of Re: T e s t  Ignore please1


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:54:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA03997; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:45:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:45:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: "Kelvin's Thunderstorm"
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 18:44:19 +0000
Message-ID: <19970322184417.AAA22743 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"8q7YI1.0.N-.uY2Dp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5203
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A

Welcome Home Bill Beaty! <g>

The oil atomizer that R.A. Millikan used in his Oil Drop Experiment
indicates that oil works also,doesn't it?

This is one of the main thoughts about the TWA Flight 800 disaster
with respect to static electricity buildup by the jet fuel transfer
pumps and plumbing that could have exploded the air-fuel vapor mix
in the main fuel tank.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 10:59:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA12490; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:49:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:49:58 -0800
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970322115032.009d24c0 esa.lanl.gov>
X-Sender: claytor_t_n esa.lanl.gov
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:50:33 -0700
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Thomas N. Claytor" <claytor_t_n lanl.gov>
Subject: Re:  Hot Fusion progress
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Resent-Message-ID: <"osd5l2.0.033.Ld2Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5204
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Elliot,

It's too bad your views are not widely shared, most of the criticism of our
experiments, both above and below board, has come from our mostly ex-hot
fusion types. The often heard refrain is that "I can't tell you where you
are wrong, but it must be wrong", therefore, no funding.

Tom C. 


At 10:22 AM 3/21/97 +0900, you wrote:
>        I would like to echo Mike Schaffer's comments (in various threads)
>concerning the role of hot fusion. "SNIP "
>        It's not like there is no other technology worth funding.  Cold
>fusion researchers have enough problems of their own without going out of
>their way to make enemies in other fields!  
>
>Best regards,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo
>        
>                 
>
>
http://www.nde.lanl.gov/staff/claytor/claytor.htm
Thomas N. Claytor	Claytor_t_n lanl.gov
Los Alamos National Laboratory
ESA-MT, MS C914
Los Alamos NM, 87545
505-667-6216 voice
505-665-7176 fax

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 11:41:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA19143; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:32:07 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:32:07 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af59d7bb191f [199.237.131.231]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:35:41 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"euWyW2.0._g4.rE3Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5205
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 8:05 AM 3/22/97, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
[snip]
>
>  Horace, it is not only conductivity that determines whether these
>machines work.
>  Actually the requirement involves the dielectric relaxation time
>which is the ratio of the real part of the complex permittivity
>(the dielectric constant * free space permittivity)to the
>electrical conductivity. There refs were posted previously here on this.
>
>  Best wishes.   Hope that helps.
>  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com(

I'm not sure what "these machines" are.  My discussion was about the Lord
Kelvin water dropper. This works by charge induction. Being mechanical, it,
in classical implementation, doesn't work fast enough to bring dielectric
relaxtion time into the picture at all in regards to performance. For all
practical purposes the drops are in eqilibrium long before falling.  Where
does dielectric relaxation come into play?  Mercury works just as well as
water.  Insulating fluids don't work.

Permittivity might come into play if you consider the air gap, and the
possibility to replace that with insulating material in order to generate a
larger field gradient in the vicinity of the drops. However, the relxation
time is still a moot point. Maybe for some modern highly souped up version
of the classical machine these would be important considerations?

I don't recall seeing any relevent references. Are you referring to
postings of them in this thread?  In the last couple days or last couple
years?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 11:43:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA08736; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:32:19 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:32:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530504af59de43a1e8 [199.237.131.231]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:35:45 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"2Q7Tf1.0.I82.-E3Dp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5206
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 7:35 AM 3/22/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>
>However, there may be a connection to the proposed
>"Light Electron-Positron" pairs. The light electron could
>give the small hydrogen (1H1*) or deuterium (1H2*)and (1H3*) bound
>states that Mills claims, without question.
[snip]
>
>Regards,       Frederick


Not true that the above is without question. At least a couple of us have
questioned this hypothesis.

Momentarily taking a semi-classical view of a hydrogen nucleus, or at least
a point particle view, at any distance of approach of a light to the
nucleus it will have less mass but greater velocity than an electron at the
same distance.  Orbital radius is clearly almost purely a function of
velocity, not mass or other considerations, due to the mass ratios involved
of leptons to nucleus (don't need to consider mutual rotation and
complexities involved). If any equilibrium is to be established, i.e. an
orbital, then the light will therefore orbit at a larger radius than the
electron.

If an electron can't orbit at less than ground state why should a light be
able to when in any specific configuration in the "atom" it remains lighter
than the electron?  You have pointed out that the lights must achieve near
511 KeV to approach the mass of the electron.  This implies they must
reamin lighter at all times in an "atom" due to the fact energy levels of
more than 511 KeV are not achieved.  Same drop into the potential well
yields the same energy, therefore the light moves faster than the heavy.
Faster orbit bigger orbit.  What am I missing?



Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 11:51:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA22749; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:42:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:42:33 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530505af59e6939605 [199.237.131.242]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:46:06 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Cygnus X-3, Cygnons, and Light Pairs.
Resent-Message-ID: <"UdgfI.0.NZ5.eO3Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5207
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Vortexians:
>
>In the mid-eighties obsevation of the air showers from Cygnus X-3
>led investigators conclude that in some of the showers there seems
>to be a particle that was labeled the "Cygnon".
>
>It cannot be a charged particle because the galactic magnetic field
>would cause it to move in large spirals. It cannot be a neutron because
>even with time dilation the 15 minute lifetime of the neutron wouldn't
>survive the 40,000 light year trip to Earth.
>
>It cannot be a neutral atom, because there is enough hydrogen in the
>40,000 light year path to strip off it's electrons.
>
>It has to be a neutral particle or particle pair with a rest mass
>less than 1/100th the rest mass of the electron. Thus it cannot be
>Mills' "Hydrino".
>
>A duck, perhaps?     <G>
>
>Regards,     Frederick

Sounds like a neutrino. How was it detected, emulsion tracks post collision?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 12:15:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA14515; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:04:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:04:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33344A57.265A rt66.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:08:39 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Review of Mills theory
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3DD4B8B7843"
Resent-Message-ID: <"zaEXc1.0.WY3.ti3Dp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5208
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------3DD4B8B7843
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.blacklightpower.com/bookreview.html

--------------3DD4B8B7843
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="bookreview.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bookreview.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.blacklightpower.com/bookrev
	iew.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.blacklightpower.com/bookreview.html">

<HTML>
<HEAD>
  <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Adobe PageMill 2.0 Mac">
  <TITLE>Book Review</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">

<P><IMG SRC="logobar3dsm.gif" WIDTH="300" HEIGHT="74" ALIGN="BOTTOM" NATURALSIZEFLAG=
"3"><A HREF="index.html">BlackLight Power Home</A> <MAP NAME="navbar">
    <AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="310,0,388,66" HREF="book.html">
    <AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="463,0,539,66" HREF="index.html">
    <AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="387,0,464,66" HREF="news.html">
    <AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="234,-1,311,66" HREF="business.html">
    <AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="157,-1,235,66" HREF="astrophysics.html">
    <AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="80,0,158,66" HREF="theory.html">
    <AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="-1,0,81,66" HREF="introbkg.html">
</MAP><IMG SRC="navbar.gif" WIDTH="540" HEIGHT="67" ALIGN="BOTTOM" NATURALSIZEFLAG=
"3" USEMAP="#navbar" ISMAP BORDER="0"></P>

<P><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <H2 ALIGN=CENTER>THE GRAND UNIFIED THEORY OF CLASSICAL QUANTUM MECHANICS</H2>
  <P ALIGN=RIGHT>Randell L. Mills November 1995 Edition ISBN 0-9635171-1-2</P>
  <P ALIGN=RIGHT>&nbsp;</P>
  <H2>Review by Reinhart Engelmann:</H2>
  <P ALIGN=RIGHT>November 11, 1996</P>
  <P>&quot;The unquestioning acceptance of the Copenhagen interpretation
  of quantum theory has, in the last 40 years or so, held back progress on
  the development of alternative theories. ... Blind acceptance of the orthodox
  position cannot produce the challenges needed to push the theory eventually
  to its breaking point. And break it will, probably in a way no one can
  predict to produce a theory no one can imagine.&quot;</P>
  <P ALIGN=RIGHT>Jim Baggott, 1992 [1]</P>
  <P ALIGN=RIGHT><HR ALIGN=RIGHT></P>
  <P>The grand unified theory of Randell L. Mills: a natural unification
  of quantum mechanics and relativity ? This could well evolve as being true.
  At any rate, Mills proposes such a basic approach to quantum theory that
  it deserves considerably more attention from the general scientific community
  than it has received so far. The new theory appears to be a realization
  of Einstein's vision and a fitting closure of the &quot;Quantum Century&quot;
  that started in 1900 with Max Planck's work on black-body radiation and
  his subsequent postulate of energy quanta.</P>
  <P>It was Einstein's lifelong dream to unify the quantum world with his
  theory of (special and general) relativity [2]. Even though he was one
  of the three eminent fathers of quantum mechanics - besides Planck and
  Bohr - Einstein had serious doubts about the uncertainties that were a
  basic feature of its theoretical framework. In his response to Born's interpretation
  of the wave function as a probability-field (&quot;ghost-field&quot;) he
  made the now famous statement: &quot;I am at all events convinced that
  He does not play dice.&quot; [1,2]</P>
  <P>In addition, of course, quantum mechanics is fundamentally inconsistent
  with relativity. The somewhat forced unification in Dirac's approach was
  hardly satisfying to that great genius of an Einstein: &quot;I incline
  to belief that physicists will not be permanently satisfied with ... an
  indirect description of Reality, even if the [quantum] theory can be fitted
  successfully to the General Relativity postulates.&quot; [2] Einstein's
  dream for a unified field theory envisioned a &quot;programme which may
  suitably be called Maxwell's ... .&quot; As his biographer Abraham Pais
  put it, his vision called for &quot;start[ing] with a classical field theory,
  a unified field theory, and demand[ing] of that theory that the quantum
  rules should emerge as constraints imposed by that theory itself.&quot;
  [2]</P>
  <P>Randell L. Mills proposes such a unified field theory. He outlines a
  quantum theory for the atomistic world that is fully consistent with &quot;Maxwell's
  programme&quot;: It is founded solely upon the classical laws of physics
  in the framework of Einstein's relativity with an additional Lorentz-invariant
  scalar wave equation for de-Broglie matter waves. This additional wave
  equation is completely compatible with Maxwell's vector wave equation of
  electromagnetism. The key for quantization of the steady-state is the well
  known physical law that a steady-state of moving charge or matter, with
  or without acceleration, must not radiate either electromagnetic or gravitational
  waves. This postulate was originally derived from Maxwell's Equations in
  1986 by Hermann Haus for a moving charge [3] and was generalized by Mills
  as follows: the <I>steady-state</I> eigenfunction of charge/matter has
  to be free of Fourier components synchronous with waves traveling at the
  speed of light. The condition is equivalent to the violation of phase-matching
  for the exchange of energy in coupled mode theory.</P>
  <P>Retrospectively, the non-radiation postulate is the only quantization
  condition that seems to make perfect sense. Applied to the central force
  field of a hydrogen atom, Mills derives eigenfunction solutions that correspond
  to concentric spherical shells (called &quot;orbitspheres&quot;) with radii
  that are integer multiples <I>n</I> of the Bohr radius <I>a</I>0. These
  eigenfunctions can be naturally interpreted as two-dimensional charge/mass
  density functions of the electron confined to a spherical surface. Charge/mass
  points on the orbitsphere move along great circles with a fixed magnitude
  of linear velocity in a strictly coordinated motion to each other (the
  orbitsphere is <I>not</I> a rigid spinning globe).</P>
  <P>All electromagnetic field energy is trapped inside the orbitsphere as
  in a resonant cavity with perfectly conducting walls, except for a static
  magnetic field produced by the surface currents of the orbitsphere. In
  the excited states <I>n</I> &gt; 1 this trapping is meta-stable. The well-known
  quantized energy states of the hydrogen atom are predicted by Mills's solutions.</P>
  <P>As a corollary Mills derives the properties of the electron spin and
  the Bohr magneton in agreement with the Stern-Gerlach experiment. These
  properties arise out of a constant &quot;spin-term&quot; in the angular
  function required in the solutions to satisfy the condition of <I>negative</I>
  definite charge (or <I>positive</I> definite mass) everywhere on the orbitsphere
  for any set of quantum numbers. Mills assigns to this spin-term the quantum
  number <I>s</I> = 1/2. Thus, the spin is a natural by-product of the theory,
  whereas in the traditional quantum mechanics of Schr&ouml;dinger and Heisenberg
  it had to be introduced artificially.</P>
  <P>In the ground state (<I>n</I> = 1, <I>l</I> = 0) Mills derives a homogeneous
  charge/mass distribution on the orbitsphere surface, in the excited states
  (<I>n</I> &gt; 1, <I>l</I> &gt; 0), on the other hand, the charge distribution
  becomes non-uniform and generates, together with the central charge of
  the nucleus, multipoles. Transition probabilities would follow from classical
  multipole radiation theory. At ionization the orbitsphere would expand
  to infinity, thus, becoming the wavefront of a quasi-plane de-Broglie wave
  traveling away from the central nucleus, and, once &quot;free&quot; from
  the nucleus, the electron orbitsphere would collapse into a spinning disk
  in order to conserve angular momentum.</P>
  <P>Mills's orbitspheres, the electron eigenfunctions of the atom, emerge
  as complete charge/matter equivalents of standing electromagnetic waves
  in a resonant cavity. The compatibility of the respective wave equations
  allows a harmonic self-consistent description of electron (charge/mass)
  and electromagnetic-field (energy) distribution in the atom. It would bring
  back determinism to quantum theory, a heroic task that Schr&ouml;dinger
  set out to accomplish with his wave mechanics but, to his own dismay [1],
  tragically failed to do.</P>
  <P>If, then, the charge/mass density functions of Mills were the correct
  solutions, the &quot;real thing&quot; that Einstein's &quot;inner voice&quot;
  predicted [1,2], what are Schr&ouml;dinger's wave functions? In order to
  find some answer to this question one has to realize that in the case of
  time harmonic motion the <I>steady-state</I> Schr&ouml;dinger equation
  is identical to the <I>steady-</I>state charge/matter wave equation in
  Mills's theory, specified for the non-relativistic limit. The connection
  is provided by the de-Broglie relation combined with conservation of energy.
  What is vastly different, of course, is the <I>boundary </I>condition!
  The Haus criterion in Mills's theory, which was outlined above, leads to
  non-radiating eigenfunctions. This situation is equivalent to a perfectly
  <I>closed</I> lossless resonant cavity. Schr&ouml;dinger's boundary condition,
  on the other hand, requires that the wave function vanishes at infinity
  and is well behaved anywhere else. As demonstrated by Mills, the resulting
  eigenfunctions have Fourier transforms with components traveling at the
  speed of light and, thus, should involve radiation. Schr&ouml;dinger's
  eigenfunctions can be considered the normal modes of a spherical resonator
  of <I>infinite</I> extent.</P>
  <P>In such a context, how could Schr&ouml;dinger's solution describe a
  steady-state that has some physical meaning? To this reviewer it is quite
  conceivable that such a state, for each set of quantum numbers, can be
  characterized by the superposition of two dynamic states: one would consist
  of a continually contracting orbitsphere emitting &quot;virtual&quot; photons,
  whereas the other one would constitute the reverse, the orbitsphere continually
  expanding and thereby re-absorbing these photons, where the principle quantum
  number <I>n</I> refers to the &quot;home&quot; orbit and the angular quantum
  numbers (<I>s,l,m</I>) determine the angular charge/mass distribution on
  the contracting and expanding orbitsphere surface. No net emission or absorption
  of photons takes place. Such a quasi-dynamic state could, perhaps, best
  be compared with the superposition of a lasing resonant cavity emitting
  a light beam to infinity (there vanishing just like a spherical wave) and
  its time-reversed counterpart, i.e. a lossy cavity absorbing the opposite
  light beam as it travels from infinity into the cavity. This would result,
  in effect, in a <I>leaky</I> resonant cavity with lossless feedback from
  infinity.</P>
  <P>Obviously, the described hybrid quasi-dynamic state could not be a real
  state. Rather it should be viewed as a <I>virtual</I> state. As such, it
  is expected to provide some statistical information about the possible
  dynamic behavior which the <I>real</I> steady-state of a Mills charge/mass
  eigenfunction may be subjected to. In the hydrogen atom the statistics
  would refer to all possible expansion and contraction events starting from
  a particular orbitsphere with a given set of quantum numbers: the orbitsphere
  expansion/contraction events are an endless &quot;Monte Carlo game&quot;
  forced onto the Schrdinger eigenfunction by perfect feedback from infinity!
  Thus, in a quasi-dynamic sense, one could consider a Mills orbitsphere
  of a given set of quantum numbers as being statistically &quot;projected&quot;
  onto a Schr&ouml;dinger wave function of the same set of quantum numbers.
  To make this projection complete the latter needs to be generalized by
  adding the spin-term in the angular function which Schr&ouml;dinger did
  not consider.</P>
  <P>Such a view point would lead to the conclusion that the statistical
  interpretation of the Schr&ouml;dinger wave function remains compatible
  with the unified field theory of Mills. However, the statistics became
  purely classical, they were totally equivalent, e.g., to the statistics
  of thermodynamics: statistics of, in effect, an infinite number of real
  individual events that proceed in a completely deterministic way without
  the intervention of a measurement apparatus. Hence, Heisenberg's uncertainty
  principle would loose all its mystique, in the context of the Mills theory
  it just became the charge/mass-density-function equivalent of the classical
  relation between the decay time and bandwidth of a damped harmonic oscillator
  and its spatial twin for propagating waves!</P>
  <P>The unified theory of Mills provides a simple, exceptionally pleasing,
  resolution of the conceptual problems with the traditional quantum mechanics
  of Schr&ouml;dinger and Heisenberg. In fact, this resolution is amazingly
  close to Einstein's vision [2]: Quantum mechanics is revealed as incomplete
  but remains a valid branch of statistical physics. It is highly accurate
  when dealing with a large number of quantum events, but utterly fails in
  the description of individual &quot;quantum jumps&quot;. Here, the unified
  theory of Mills re-establishes determinism, as is demonstrated by Mills
  with the example of electron scattering from a He atom: Schr&ouml;dinger
  's approach provides accurate results only for relatively large scattering
  angles for which the statistics are expected to be good. Mills's deterministic
  approach, however, provides an accurate solution for the full angular range.
  Hence, traditional quantum mechanics - a better term in the framework of
  Mills's theory would be <I>statistical</I> quantum mechanics - is related
  to the quantum laws of the Mills unified theory - Mills calls it <I>classical</I>
  quantum mechanics - in a way that is somewhat reminiscent of the relation
  between Newton's mechanics and its generalization in special relativity.
  May, at last, Einstein's spirit rest in peace?</P>
  <P>Einstein's theory of relativity modified Newton's law but yielded more:
  it predicted the equivalence of matter and energy! What are the exciting
  new predictions of the grand unified theory of Mills? This theory predicts
  the existence of so-called &quot;shrunken&quot; atomic states, substates
  below the ground state. These substates are non-radiating electron orbitspheres
  at the simple fractions <I>n</I> = 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ... of the Bohr radius
  <I>a</I>0 (the &quot;subharmonics&quot; of the atom!). The existence of
  these substates is consistent with the above speculation for a new statistical
  interpretation of Schr&ouml;dinger's wave functions, since these wave functions
  remain finite below the Bohr radius dropping to zero only at the nuclear
  center.</P>
  <P>The ground state is completely stable, so the substates are generally
  inaccessible. According to Mills's hypothesis, however, the atomic substates
  can be accessed by interaction with the proper partner atom(s) or ion(s)
  in a resonant energy exchange. For hydrogen, Mills calculates this critical
  energy to be just twice the hydrogen ionization energy from the ground
  state (2 x 13.6 eV). Once this energy quantum is transferred from the hydrogen
  ground state orbitsphere to the interacting partner atom(s) or ion(s) by
  exciting it to a higher orbitsphere level, the hydrogen orbitsphere becomes
  unstable and collapses to its next lower stable non-radiating substate
  with additional release of energy. Thus, to activate such a Coulomb field
  collapse the hydrogen atom has to absorb - as Mills calls it - an &quot;energy
  hole&quot; of 27.2 eV. According to Mills, absorption of multiples of energy
  holes is also allowed for this activation, and the size of the energy hole
  remains the same for activating further collapse from any of the substates.
  Considerable shrinkage should, hence, be possible in a catalytic process
  with the release of considerable amount of energy.</P>
  <P>Mills also predicts that atomic Coulomb field collapse can proceed to
  such a degree that, with fusible atomic nuclei, e.g. deuterons, fusion
  can set in: Mills predicts the possibility of <I>cold</I> fusion or, in
  his terminology, Coulombic annihilation fusion (CAF)! Fleischmann and Pons
  [4] appear to be vindicated.</P>
  <P>But the postulated Coulomb field collapse itself is predicted by Mills
  to lead to the release of large amounts of energy and by itself could explain
  the observed excess heat in electrolytic cell experiments. The process,
  thus, deserves earnest attention as a potential future energy source. Mills
  has some convincing experimental evidence for both catalytic exothermic
  formation of shrunken substates of hydrogen (so-called &quot;hydrinos&quot;),
  as well as for catalytic cold fusion. Only the future can tell, if these
  catalytic processes can be made efficient enough to be viable for useful
  energy production. As an encouraging sign, Mills has designed a hydrogen
  gas energy cell based on his shrinkage reaction that provides far superior
  performance than any of the original liquid electrolytic cells.</P>
  <P>A most exciting feature of the Mills theory is, however, that it promises
  to be a <I>true</I> grand unified theory: Mills applies the orbitsphere
  concept not only to single and multiple electron atoms and ions, to the
  hydrogen molecule and the chemical bond, but also to pair production and
  positronium, and to the weak and strong nuclear forces. Mills proposes
  that just three basic concepts, i.e., electromagnetism, gravity, and mass/energy,
  suffice to describe all known phenomena from the dimensions of the atomic
  nucleus to those of the cosmos.</P>
  <P>Mills's new &quot;classical&quot; quantum mechanics is of beautiful
  conceptual simplicity and fully deterministic without the uncertainties,
  quantum jumps and probability functions of traditional quantum mechanics,
  without &quot;spooky action at a distance&quot; [1]. This should be a pure
  joy for every searching scientist! It appears that the scientific community
  has taken little notice of this new theory. Considering its revolutionary
  nature and seemingly far-out conclusions this is perhaps not too surprising.
  On the other hand, critical dialogue is necessary for any new and unconventional
  thinking in order to mature and reach a high degree of rigor and precision
  in its formulation. In view of the fact that recently receptiveness for
  alternate views on quantum theory has increased, as e.g. the renewed interest
  in the deterministic interpretation of Bohm attests [5], it is hoped that
  the theory of Randell L. Mills will find its deserved resonance.</P>
  <P>Let me close, as I started this review, with a quote from Jim Baggott
  [1]: &quot;Science is a democratic activity. It is rare for a new theory
  to be adopted by the scientific community overnight. Rather scientists
  need a good deal of persuading before they will invest belief in a new
  theory ... . This process of persuasion must be backed up by hard experimental
  evidence, preferably from new experiments designed to test the predictions
  of the new theory. Only when a large cross-section of the scientific community
  believes in the new theory is it accepted as 'true'.&quot;</P>
  <P>I am indebted to Professor Anthony Bell for originally bringing the
  1992 edition of Mills's book to my attention and to Professor Lawrence
  Ruby and Mr. Thomas Stolper for helpful advice.</P>
  <H4 ALIGN=RIGHT><BR>
  <I>Reinhart Engelmann - Professor of Electrical Engineering <BR>
  Oregon Graduate Institute of Science and Technology,<BR>
  Portland, OR 97291-1000</I></H4>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<P><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <H3>References:</H3>
  <P>[1] Jim Baggott, The Meaning of Quantum Theory, Oxford University Press,
  1992</P>
  <P>[2] Abraham Pais, 'Subtle is the Lord...' The Science and the Life of
  Albert Einstein, Oxford University Press, 1982</P>
  <P>[3] H.A Haus, &quot;On the radiation from point charges,&quot; Am. J.
  Phys. 54 (12), 1126 (December 1986)</P>
  <P>[4] M. Fleischmann and S. Pons, &quot;Electrochemically induced nuclear
  fusion of deuterium,&quot; J. Electroanal. Chem. 261, 301 (1989)</P>
  <P>[5] David Z. Albert, &quot;Bohm's Alternative to Quantum Mechanics,&quot;
  Scientific American, May 1994, p.58<BR>
  </P>
  <P ALIGN=RIGHT><HR ALIGN=RIGHT></P>
  <P ALIGN=CENTER>[<A HREF="introbkg.html">Introduction &amp; Background</A><A
  HREF="../BLP%20-%3E%2012/27/BLP%20-%3E12/31/Introduction%20%26%20Background">
  | </A><A HREF="theory.html">Theory | </A><A HREF="astrophysics.html">Astrophysics
  | </A><A HREF="business.html">Business | </A><A HREF="book.html">Book |
  </A><A HREF="bookreview.html">Book Review | </A><A HREF="news.html">News
  |</A>]</P>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<P ALIGN=CENTER>Copyright &copy; 1997, BlackLight Power. All Rights Reserved.</P>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <P ALIGN=CENTER>Last Updated 2/22/97 - More Coming Soon:</P>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<P ALIGN=CENTER>For information on this website contact: <A HREF="mailto:webmaster blacklightpower.com">webmaster@blacklightpower.com</A></P>

<P ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="sharenews4.html">Fourth Shareholder Newsletter
'96</A></P>

<H4 ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="index.html">BlackLight Power Home</A></H4>
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------3DD4B8B7843--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 12:25:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA16908; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:15:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:15:13 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33344CE9.5CD5 rt66.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:19:37 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: BlackLight  Newsletter '97
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------24C31A1742D3"
Resent-Message-ID: <"bW-Yt1.0.584.Et3Dp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5209
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------24C31A1742D3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.blacklightpower.com/sharenews1.html

--------------24C31A1742D3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="sharenews1.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="sharenews1.html"
Content-Base: "http://www.blacklightpower.com/sharene
	ws1.html"

<BASE HREF="http://www.blacklightpower.com/sharenews1.html">

<HTML>
<HEAD>
  <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Adobe PageMill 2.0 Mac">
  <TITLE>First Shareholder Newsletter '97</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">

<P><IMG SRC="logobar3dsm.gif" WIDTH="300" HEIGHT="74" ALIGN="BOTTOM" NATURALSIZEFLAG=
"3"></P>

<P ALIGN=CENTER>[ <A HREF="index.html">BlackLight Power Home</A> | <A HREF=
"newinfo.html">What's New? | </A><A HREF="news.html">News ]</A></P>

<P><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <H3 ALIGN=RIGHT><FONT COLOR="#000000">March 1, 1997</FONT></H3>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<H2 ALIGN=CENTER><FONT COLOR="#000000">FIRST SHAREHOLDER NEWSLETTER '97</FONT></H2>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <P><B><FONT COLOR="#000000">Corporate Legal</FONT></B></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The Company has developed a joint venture strategy
  and agreement which it plans to use to establish an OEM Alliance (See below)
  whereby the initial members will contribute intellectual property to a
  jointly owned intellectual property holding company.<B></B></FONT></P>
  <P><B><FONT COLOR="#000000">Patent Legal</FONT></B></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The Company plans to commercialize its technology
  by selling power as a commodity on the &quot;grid&quot; and with distributed
  power sales as well as other applications.  BLP has developed a licensing
  agreement which it plans to use to receive revenue from power generators
  based on the cost savings associated with the use of BLP's energy process
  (See below).<BR>
  <BR>
  </FONT><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>
  <H2><FONT COLOR="#000000">Theory</FONT></H2>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">The September 1996 edition of Dr. Mills book entitled
  &quot;The Grand Unified Theory of Classical Quantum Mechanics&quot; is
  now published.  Promotional materials have been prepared.  In March, the
  Company plans to mail an announcement of the GUT's publication to over
  2000 physicists, and to send a press release to journals to cause them
  to print a book review.<BR>
  </FONT></P>
  <P><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>
  <H3><FONT COLOR="#000000">Vapor Phase Gas Cell Development/Recent Demonstrations</FONT></H3>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">With NovaTech, Inc., the Company has developed
  three prototypes of its breakthrough gas energy cell.  The cells have achieved
  power densities in excess of that of internal combustion engines at 800
  &deg;C.  We have developed experimental protocols for the current four
  types of energy cells being tested.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The Company is developing a large scale version
  (up to 1 megawatt) of its energy cell with Thermacore, Inc. to serve as
  a functional prototype power plant.  The entire reaction chamber will run
  at 2000 &deg;C.  The catalyst vapor pressure and the atomic hydrogen pressure
  will be controlled independently.  This control ability is a major step
  to a commercial design.  Most of the high temperature components and associated
  technology are commercially available which will dramatically reduce the
  prototype development time.  Modifications of existing devices is viewed
  by the Company as a rapid route to commercialization. </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	PSU reports that the vapor phase cell produced
  10 times the power of the spillover catalyst.  The power is essentially
  constant for over a day and operates at substantial power for days. The
  power does not decay exponentially as was the case with the spillover catalyst.
   The energy balances are 100 to 1000 times that of combustion.</FONT></P>
  <H3><FONT COLOR="#000000">Engineering</FONT></H3>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	In collaboration with BLP, Technology Insights,
  a consulting firm retained by WCU--a large west coast utility, has developed
  system designs for a gas turbine/electric hybrid motive power plant and
  several versions of steam turbine and gas turbine power plants.</FONT></P>
  <H3><FONT COLOR="#000000">Lower-Energy Hydrogen Identification</FONT></H3>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The Company has repeated its X-Ray Photoelectron
  Spectroscopy (XPS) experiments at Lehigh University which were run with
  carbon cathodes as opposed to nickel cathodes.  The data shows three peaks
  each corresponding to a predicted energy level of atomic hydrogen as opposed
  to one level seen in pervious experiments.  A specific protocol has been
  prepared, and work is in progress to perfect this experiment which in the
  opinion of the Company provides strong support of BLP's technology.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The vapor phase cell is permissive of the detection
  of the ultraviolet (UV) emission of lower-energy hydrogen transitions by
  extreme UV spectroscopy.  Dr. Mills has prepared a proposal with PSU. 
  These tests are planned to be conducted under the direction of 		, the
  leading expert in UV spectroscopy, at the University of 	 in April. It
  is the Company's opinion that they will provide redoubtable proof of the
  Company's energy releasing reaction.  The extreme ultraviolet spectroscopy
  experiment is scheduled for April.  We will start with a gas discharge
  cell.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	Dr. Mills has invented a means which may permit
  the detection of the UV light emitted by the transition reaction directly
  without sophisticated equipment.  The initial test indicate that the instrument
  may be working.  It is the Company's opinion that this device is a means
  to ubiquitous confirmation of the Company's technology and could provide
  revenues from sales of this device.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	Dr. Mills has applied the theory to predict reactions
  to synthesize dihydrino molecules which will be identified by gas chromatography
  and mass spectroscopy.  Protocols of these experiments have been developed,
  and the work is in progress.  Much larger quantities are anticipated than
  in previous experiments; thus, subsequent identification by gas chromatography
  and mass spectroscopy should provide substantial evidence.  BLP has observed
  additional peaks during gas chromatography of gasses from the dihydrino
  synthesis using a gas discharge cell.  The Company interrupts these peaks
  as fractional molecular hydrogen peaks.  In one run, peaks which the Company
  assigns to 1/2, 1/3, and 1/4 fractional molecular hydrogen were seen which
  confirms the Lehigh XPS data.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The Company has finished the protocols which
  management feels are the remaining test necessary to gain wide acceptance
  of BLP theory and technology.  The results of BLP's high power density
  gas cell tests, astrophysical findings, theory, gas cell validation, mass
  spectroscopy tests showing lower-energy hydrogen, and XPS tests are available
  for shareholder review at BLP's offices.<BR>
  </FONT><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>
  <H2><FONT COLOR="#000000">Business Development</FONT></H2>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	BlackLight Power, Inc. has spent five years developing
  the theory, intellectual property, reducing the technology to a commercially
  competitive form, validating the process and power production, and developing
  a scientific and a business plan.  The Company has proceeded in the past
  with a low profile/conservative approach as it built credibility and reduced
  the technology to practice while leveraging the resources of other entities
  both academic and industrial.  The Company has completed the startup phase
  and is shifting its activities to commercialization.  The Company will
  need substantially more capital in this phase.  Commercialization may take
  the form of a joint effort with energy companies.  The Company will initially
  form a development consortium to build a one kilowatt electric prototype
  in 18 months.  The initial licensees, the members of the consortium, will
  benefit from lower royalty fees and the technological lead gained over
  competitors.</FONT></P>
  <H3><FONT COLOR="#000000">Licensing Strategy   </FONT></H3>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">Management believes that maximization of the Company's
  income can best be derived by making its technology available to a very
  broad group of enterprises.  The Company is in active discussions and negotiation
  with heating, power plant, and boiler manufacturers, as well as utilities,
  aerospace companies, and automotive companies to form alliances.  The Company
  will capture energy market share and product acceptance of the brand name
  BLACKLIGHT (The Company has applied for service and trademarks) by leveraging
  the assets of energy companies.  The principle commercialization objective
  is to engage original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) in force to develop,
  manufacture, market, and service BlackLight-technology as rapidly as possible.
   The ultimate goal is to establish the Company's energy source as the industry
  standard for generation.  The Company expects to use primarily licensing
  -- via research and development agreements, manufacturing/lease agreements,
  process licenses, and joint ventures -- to commercialize its technology
  in domestic and foreign markets.  The Company has developed a joint venture
  agreement and a licensing agreement for this purpose.  The core focus will
  be to follow a &quot;franchise&quot; licensing approach wherein BLP jointly
  owned manufacturing companies develop, manufacture, and supply APPLICATION
  SYSTEMS (BlackLight-type equipment) by sale to BLP SYSTEMS (BLP process,
  BLP &quot;Hot Blackbox&quot;, and BLP &quot;Hydrino&quot;) licensed generation/service
  companies that sell energy.  Alternatively, BLP jointly owned manufacturing
  companies develop, manufacture, and supply APPLICATION SYSTEMS and BLP
  SYSTEMS by lease to generation/service companies that sell energy.  The
  Company and its licensees will form an &quot;Alliance&quot; which will
  share intellectual property to enhance its rate of capture of market share
  in each FIELD (generation category such as central power generation). 
  BLP intends to derive an upfront royalty fee from the &quot;commodity&quot;
  value by licensing the process based on TERRITORY, CAPACITY, and, FIELD
  and collect a royalty on each kilowatt hour generated based on the generation
  savings associated with BlackLight technology.  BLP plans to charge equipment
  manufacturers a royalty as a percentage of sales as well as maintain an
  equity position in the APPLICATION SYSTEMS JV.  At the expiration of the
  process patent term, the energy savings associated with BLP SYSTEMS will
  be captured by the ALLIANCE via sales or leases of APPLICATION SYSTEMS.
   BLP will benefit long term through its equity position in the APPLICATION
  SYSTEMS JVs. </FONT></P>
  <H3><FONT COLOR="#000000">Licenses to Manufacture (ManufacturingCos)  </FONT></H3>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">The Company will increase shareholder equity and
  commercialize its technology by establishing jointly owned companies with
  other members of the power industry.  The typical plan is a 50/50 split
  of ownership of a NewCo between BLP and Company X.  Company X will finance
  and develop the business.  BLP percentage ownership will not be subject
  to dilution except in the event of a public offering of NewCo's shares.
   BLP will assign to NewCo a nonexclusive, nontransferable license without
  the right to sublicense.  Certain rights to manufacture according to application,
  total name-plate capacity, and territory will be negotiated.  BLP's rights
  to improvement technology developed by NewCo (foreground patents) and NewCo's
  rights to improvement technology developed by BLP will be cross licensed.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The structure of the initial manufacturing JV's
  will be jointly owned (50/50) intellectual property holding companies wherein
  BLP will license the OEM to manufacture BLP SYSTEMS (background IP) in
  return for the assignment of BLP APPLICATION SYSTEMS (foreground IP) to
  the JV.  The OEM will develop, manufacture, market, service, finance, etc.
  APPLICATION SYSTEMS and the corresponding royalty to be paid to the JV
  will be set by the OEM.  A grant back license to BLP with the right to
  sublicense will provide equal access of APPLICATION SYSTEMS to all BLP
  SYSTEMS licensees at the same price set by the OEM.  As the market matures,
  BLP will shift to its core strategy described under Licensing Strategy.</FONT></P>
  <H3><FONT COLOR="#000000">Deals  </FONT></H3>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">The Company has a substantial business plan to
  commercialize its technology by selling power as a commodity on the &quot;grid&quot;
  and with distributed power sales as well as other applications.  The Plan
  is available at the Company's offices.  We have submitted &quot;The Proposal&quot;
  (See Offering Memorandum) to seventeen companies which include multinational
  power equipment manufacturers, international architect/engineering firms,
  an international residential heat pump and air conditioner manufacturer,
  aerospace companies, and several electric utilities to form jointly owned
  companies to commercialize BLP technology as summarized in the BLP Business
  Summary.  These discussions are at various stages.  We have recently developed
  a Development Business Plan to cover the transition to commercialization
  which is available at BLP's offices.  WCU, a large west coast utility,
  and Technology Insights, a consulting firm retained by WCU, have worked
  to perfect the business plan in collaboration with BLP.  WCU is also assisting
  BLP with management recruitment.  We are presently negotiating further
  equity investments by WCU as well as a process license.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	ECU, an east coast utility, has agreed to perform
  on site testing of the Company's gas phase energy cell to be followed by
  further testing at ECU's facility.  We are negotiating a direct equity
  investment as well as a process license with ECU.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	The Company is in negotiations with an energy
  company (RE) to build a pilot power plant.  RE proposes to buy a power
  plant which was closed because it was not profitable.  RE will retrofit
  the plant to use BLP's process.  RE will benefit from profitable energy
  sales and by orders to build additional plants.  BLP will profit from the
  commercial acceptance of its technology and subsequent royalties from further
  licenses.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	Shelby Brewer and Dr. Mills traveled to Korea
  on the second week of February.  The trip was very successful.  Future
  JV or licensing partners are anticipated to include Korea Electric Power
  Corporation (KEPCO), Korea Atomic Energy Research Institute, Korean Peninsula
  Energy Development Organization (KEDO), Korea Electric Power Research Institute,
  Daewoo, and Hyundai Motor Company.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	Dr. Mills and Dr. Brewer have also met with top
  management of MAU-mid Atlantic region utility.  The Company is pursuing
  a process and OEM license with MAU.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">	We are researching the milestones that need to
  be achieved to permit an Initial Public Offering (IPO) with a number of
  prestigious investment banking firms. </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000"><BR>
  </FONT><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>
  <H2><FONT COLOR="#000000">Financials</FONT></H2>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">We have received audited finacials with a clean
  opinion ending in December 31, 1996.  Arthur Andersen &amp; Co. reports
  will be distributed at the annual shareholder meeting on April 7, 1997.</FONT></P>
  <P><HR ALIGN=LEFT></P>
  <H2><FONT COLOR="#000000">Media</FONT></H2>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000">The Company and ECU's public relations department
  are developing a World Wide Web Site (www.blacklightpower.com), which is
  operational and is in progress.  ECU is assisting the Company in developing
  a media strategy and media program which will start with the promotion
  of Dr. Mills book entitled &quot;<I>The Grand Unified Theory of Classical
  Quantum Mechanics</I>&quot;.  Dr. Mills and Dr. Brewer met with the editor
  and publisher of a leading trade journal of the power industry.  An article
  featuring the Company is expected to be published in the Spring.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT COLOR="#000000"><HR ALIGN=LEFT></FONT></P>
  <P ALIGN=CENTER>[<A HREF="introbkg.html">Introduction &amp; Background</A><A
  HREF="../BLP%20-%3E%2012/27/BLP%20-%3E12/31/Introduction%20%26%20Background">
  | </A><A HREF="theory.html">Theory | </A><A HREF="astrophysics.html">Astrophysics
  | </A><A HREF="business.html">Business | </A><A HREF="book.html">Book |
  </A><A HREF="bookreview.html">Book Review | </A><A HREF="news.html">News
  |</A>]</P>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<P ALIGN=CENTER>Copyright &copy; 1997, BlackLight Power. All Rights Reserved.</P>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <P ALIGN=CENTER>Last Updated 3/4/97 - More Coming Soon.</P>
  <P ALIGN=CENTER>For information on this website contact: <A HREF="mailto:webmaster blacklightpower.com">webmaster@blacklightpower.com</A></P>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

<H4 ALIGN=CENTER><A HREF="index.html">BlackLight Power Home</A></H4>
</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------24C31A1742D3--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 12:28:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA28209; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:19:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:19:03 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:18:15 +0000
Message-ID: <19970322201813.AAA28175 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"OvqXK.0.cu6.rw3Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5210
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:35 PM 3/22/97 +0000, you wrote:
>At 7:35 AM 3/22/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>>
>>However, there may be a connection to the proposed
>>"Light Electron-Positron" pairs. The light electron could
>>give the small hydrogen (1H1*) or deuterium (1H2*)and (1H3*) bound
>>states that Mills claims, without question.
>[snip]
>>
>>Regards,       Frederick
>
>
>Not true that the above is without question. At least a couple of us have
>questioned this hypothesis.
>
>Momentarily taking a semi-classical view of a hydrogen nucleus, or at least
>a point particle view, at any distance of approach of a light to the
>nucleus it will have less mass but greater velocity than an electron at the
>same distance.  Orbital radius is clearly almost purely a function of
>velocity, not mass or other considerations, due to the mass ratios involved
>of leptons to nucleus (don't need to consider mutual rotation and
>complexities involved). If any equilibrium is to be established, i.e. an
>orbital, then the light will therefore orbit at a larger radius than the
>electron.
>
>If an electron can't orbit at less than ground state why should a light be
>able to when in any specific configuration in the "atom" it remains lighter
>than the electron?  You have pointed out that the lights must achieve near
>511 KeV to approach the mass of the electron.  This implies they must
>reamin lighter at all times in an "atom" due to the fact energy levels of
>more than 511 KeV are not achieved.  Same drop into the potential well
>yields the same energy, therefore the light moves faster than the heavy.
>Faster orbit bigger orbit.  What am I missing?

Some simple arithmetic, Horace. Mo*gamma*c^2/r = k*q^2/r^2 and
potential, V at any orbital radius,r then V = k*q/r

Then r = k*q^2/Mo*gamma*c^2. Lets say Mo = Me/137^2 = 9.1E-31/137^2
= 4.85E-35 kg. gamma = 137.
Then r = 2.304E-28/{6.64E-33*9E16)= 3.86E-13 meters. Won't that do it?

Try it with a regular electron and you get the Bohr results.  <g>
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 12:36:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA28903; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:27:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:27:20 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cygnus X-3, Cygnons, and Light Pairs.
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:26:30 +0000
Message-ID: <19970322202628.AAA4356 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"37HbA1.0.W37.c24Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5211
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:46 PM 3/22/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>>Vortexians:
>>
>>In the mid-eighties obsevation of the air showers from Cygnus X-3
>>led investigators conclude that in some of the showers there seems
>>to be a particle that was labeled the "Cygnon".
>>
>>It cannot be a charged particle because the galactic magnetic field
>>would cause it to move in large spirals. It cannot be a neutron because
>>even with time dilation the 15 minute lifetime of the neutron wouldn't
>>survive the 40,000 light year trip to Earth.
>>
>>It cannot be a neutral atom, because there is enough hydrogen in the
>>40,000 light year path to strip off it's electrons.
>>
>>It has to be a neutral particle or particle pair with a rest mass
>>less than 1/100th the rest mass of the electron. Thus it cannot be
>>Mills' "Hydrino".
>>
>>A duck, perhaps?     <G>
>>
>>Regards,     Frederick
>
>Sounds like a neutrino. How was it detected, emulsion tracks post collision?

I thought it sounded more like a threshing machine. <g>
Go to the library and find out for yourself.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 12:51:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA30770; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:41:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:41:49 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970322203935.0068416c world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:39:35 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"J57AO.0.eW7.9G4Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5212
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 10:35 AM 3/22/97 -0900, you wrote:
>At 8:05 AM 3/22/97, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
>[snip]
>>
>>  Horace, it is not only conductivity that determines whether these
>>machines work.
>>  Actually the requirement involves the dielectric relaxation time
>>which is the ratio of the real part of the complex permittivity
>>(the dielectric constant * free space permittivity)to the
>>electrical conductivity. There refs were posted previously here on this.
>>
>>  Best wishes.   Hope that helps.
>>  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com(
>
>I'm not sure what "these machines" are. 


  These are magnetic diffusion and charge relaxation machines, Horace.

 ========================================================


> My discussion was about the Lord
>Kelvin water dropper.

  as described in L.B. Loeb, Static Electrification, Springer, Berline, 60,
(1958)
and Continuum Electromechanics, volume 3, H. Woodson, J. Melcher, MIT Press
(1966)

 ========================================================


> This works by charge induction. Being mechanical, it,
>in classical implementation, doesn't work fast enough to bring dielectric
>relaxtion time into the picture at all in regards to performance. For all
>practical purposes the drops are in eqilibrium long before falling.  Where
>does dielectric relaxation come into play? 

 Two places, Horace.

 As James Melcher states, "The charge must relax to the surface of the
stream before it breaks up.  Once the drops are formed, however, the net
charge on an individual drop is essentially conserved.  These conditions
are satisfied here because the water has a relaxataion time that is much
shorter than the time required for a drop to form, whereas the air
has a relaxation time that is much longer than the time required for a drop
the container below."  page 390 (ref. above)

  Hope that helps.
  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 14:06:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA02960; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:38:23 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:38:23 -0800
Message-ID: <33346009.4052 rt66.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:43:05 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, rmills@blacklightpower.com, wgood@blacklightpower.com,
        claytor_t_n lanl.gov
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
References: <v01530504af59de43a1e8 [199.237.131.231]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"_TKUK3.0.Ak.E55Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5213
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

March 22, 1997

BlackLight Power's low pressure gas discharge reaction vessels, made of
thick stainless steel with long, electrically heated titanium filaments,
filled with a vaporized catalyst and H gas, turned into single H by the
titanium filaments, producing over 500 watts at 1000 degrees C with 100
watts input, remind me of Claytor's on-going experiments at Los Alamos,
which use a gas discharge at 2,000 volts on a palladium cathode to
transmute deuterium into tritium.  Could it be that BlackLight is
transmutting H into He-3 or He-4?  I vaguely recall that hot He is a
good source of ultraviolet lines.

The following are quotes, lifted from BlackLightPower.com :


The Company's hydrogen gas energy cell comprises a vessel capable of
containing a
              vacuum or pressure above atmospheric, a source of
hydrogen, and two types of
              catalysts. It uses a solid state catalyst to break
hydrogen molecules into individual
              hydrogen atoms. The second transition catalyst causes the
hydrogen atoms to collapse
              to smaller than normal hydrogen atoms. The hydrogen
collapse is accompanied by a
              release of energy that is intermediate between chemical
and nuclear energies. The
              Company's gas energy cells, even in prototype stage, are
already operating at power
              densities and temperatures equivalent to those of many
commercial electric power
              plants, and the Company currently believes that the
scaleup of energy cells to
              commercial power generation level will require mainly the
application of existing
              industry knowledge in catalysis and power engineering. The
Company's test results
              have been confirmed at a major Eastern University as
demonstrated by a report on
              Calorimetric Examples of Anomalous Heat from Physical
Mixtures of K/Carbon and
              Pd/Carbon. In addition, the Company recently received an
affidavit from its research
              collaborators at this University. The affidavit states
that in careful trials, its hydrogen gas
              energy cells produce 4+ times the amount of thermal energy
that could possibly be
              attributed to any sort of "classical" chemical processes.
In subsequent tests, this ratio
              has been increased to as high as 100 times.

              The Company and other reputable laboratories believe they
have identified
              lower-energy hydrogen called hydrinos by multiple methods.
Atomic hydrogen in
              fractional quantum energy levels below the traditional
"ground" state-hydrinos was
              detected at Lehigh University, Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory, and Charles
              Evans & Associates by X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy.
This method measures the
              amount of energy required to remove the electron from the
atom known as the atom's
              binding energy. The predicted hydrino binding energies of
54.4 eV, 122.4 eV and
              217.6eV and the measured energies were in agreement. The
Company has also
              identified atomic hydrogen in fractional quantum energy
levels below the traditional
              "ground" state by the assignment of soft X-ray emissions
from the interstellar medium,
              the Sun, and stellar flares by matching the theoretical
predictions with previously
              tabulated data, and by assignment of certain lines
obtained by the far-infrared absolute
              spectrometer (FIRAS) on the Cosmic Background Explorer
which is a space born
              scientific instrument which precisely measures
long-wavelength background radiation
              from space. The lower-energy hydrogen molecular species
-the diatomic hydrino
              molecule - was detected by mass spectroscopy as having the
same mass as hydrogen,
              but a much higher energy required to remove an electron to
form a molecular ion.
              These studies were performed at the Company, Air Products
& Chemicals, Inc., and
              Shrader Analytical & Consulting Laboratories. The Company
has further identified the
              diatomic hydrino molecule by gas chromatography, and the
assignment of certain
              infrared line emissions from the Sun.


More specifically, thermal energy is released as the electrons of
hydrogen atoms are
              induced by a catalyst to transition to lower energy levels
(i.e. drop to lower base orbits
              around each atom's nucleus) corresponding to fractional
quantum numbers. As
              hydrogen atoms are normally found bound together as
molecules, the Company uses a
              hot tungsten filament to break hydrogen molecules into
individual hydrogen atoms. A
              vaporized inorganic catalyst then causes the normal
hydrogen atoms to collapse to
              smaller than normal hydrogen atoms by stimulating their
electrons to fall to smaller radii
              around the nucleus. The hydrogen collapse is accompanied
by a release of energy that
              is intermediate between chemical and nuclear energies. The
catalysts used are the
              proprietary information of the Company.


Put a few hydrogen atoms in a vacuum-sealed, three-quart stainless steel
"can", add a
              few tablespoons of a common chemical compound, turn up the
heat to about 250
              degrees (Centigrade, that is) and what do you get? If you
know what you're doing, you
              can get 10 to 20 times more energy than you put in, a
clean and limitless source of
              power, and a proven answer to one of the big secrets of
the universe.


The Company has repeated its X-Ray Photoelectron Spectroscopy (XPS)
              experiments at Lehigh University which were run with
carbon cathodes as opposed to
              nickel cathodes. The data shows three peaks each
corresponding to a predicted
              energy level of atomic hydrogen as opposed to one level
seen in pervious experiments.   [End of quotes]

It seems the catalyst may involve K, C, Ni, and Pd.

Hope this helps!

Rich Murray
Room For All
1943 Otowi Drive
Santa Fe, NM 87505
rmforall rt66.com
505-986-9103







A look inside an experimental BlackLight Power gas cell is surprising
because of its
              simplicity. Like a metal light bulb, the 3 inch diameter
and two feet long stainless steel
              vessel contains little more than a filament that is heated
to begin the process. The
              stainless steel "can" has half-inch-thick walls, is about
the size of a 3-quart saucepan
              and contains little more than a few strands of wire
filament that is heated to begin the
              process. A small amount of powdered catalyst is placed in
the cell, which is put under
              vacuum. Other impressive features of the process are its
inherent safety and lack of
              harmful byproducts or emissions. No exotic or scarce
elements are involved in the
              process. The "collapsing hydrogen" reaction is
non-explosive and automatically shuts
              off when the hydrogen supply is shut off. The only "waste"
products are collapsed
              hydrogen atoms, or what Mills calls "hydrinos," which can
be collected and used
              commercially as a substitute for helium as a
lighter-than-air gas.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:28:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA17568; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:48 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:48 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Home co-generation units
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:17:46 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33388779.7264580 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970321210220_72240.1256_EHB120-2 CompuServe.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970321210220_72240.1256_EHB120-2 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"tnk6s3.0.FI4.H4ADp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5215
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 21 Mar 97 16:02:21 EST, Jed Rothwell wrote:
[snip]
>$1200 for electricity, $2700 total. You would not shut down the co-gen during
>the summer months. You would simply vent the heat outside instead. So you

Actually, you could probably use the excess heat in the summer to drive an
air-conditioner, much like refrigerators that run on gas (ammonia cycle I
think?).
[snip]


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:28:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA17504; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:34 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:34 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: X-ray signature
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:17:26 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <333765e3.18905623 mail.netspace.net.au>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"m1sMz3.0.OH4.74ADp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5214
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Just to get a feel for things, how intense are the x-rays produced when
water is split by radiolysis, e.g. by a piece of radioactive metal
suspended in water (producing say 4-5 MeV alphas)?
(This would appear to be a reasonable analogue for many proposed CF
explanations).


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:28:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA17584; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:52 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:17:29 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3339764e.23108990 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <v02140b02af571b6a5e64 [198.133.146.230]>
In-Reply-To: <v02140b02af571b6a5e64 [198.133.146.230]>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"14-xM2.0.gI4.O4ADp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5216
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:18:47 -0800, Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote:
[snip]
>   I will concede that the smallness of nuclear cross sections seems to
>irrevocably dictate that thermonuclear fusion devices will be large.  So, I
>hang out on Vortex, to try to learn how we might do better.
>
>Michael J. Schaffer
>PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
>Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156

Michael,

I'm curious about whether or not experiments at the high pressure, low
temperature end of the spectrum have provided results which are in complete
accordance with current theory, of have anomolies been noted in this area?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:29:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA17646; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:19:11 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:19:11 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:17:32 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <333b932b.10259075 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970321153803_72240.1256_EHB122-1 CompuServe.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970321153803_72240.1256_EHB122-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"mOr253.0.eJ4.h4ADp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5219
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 21 Mar 97 10:38:03 EST, Jed Rothwell wrote:
[snip]
>A good example! High operating temperature and corrosion resistance are
>essential features in our present energy conversion technology because the
>fuel is so expensive. We must have good Carnot efficiency, so we must have
>high temperatures. Also, combustion only occurs at high temperatures; there is
>no such thing as coal that burns at 300 deg C. Ah, but what happens when the
>fuel cost drops to zero? And what happens with CF, which works as happily at
>300 or 100 deg C as it does at 1000? We can use low temperature, inefficient

Actually, I have a suspicion we may find that some CF reactors actually
work better at high temperatures. The proton conductor types seem almost
ideally suited to this. I wouldn't consider temperatures of 1000 deg. C out
of the question eventually. 
[snip]



Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:30:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA07058; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:47 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Home co-generation units
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:17:43 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3337865b.6978485 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970321210220_72240.1256_EHB120-2 CompuServe.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970321210220_72240.1256_EHB120-2 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"42RJe1.0.Ck1.L4ADp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5217
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 21 Mar 97 16:02:21 EST, Jed Rothwell wrote:
[snip]
>must be maintained and decommissioning independently. I predict the generator
>will shrink, and finally submerge with the motor, and the maintenance cost

Think they will be dumped at sea do you Jed? ;^)

>will be the same as it was for the old electric motor. (Zero, in my case; I
>just change the belts.)
[snip]
Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:30:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA07104; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:18:53 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Charged particles in magnetic fields
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:17:27 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <333871d7.21966299 mail.netspace.net.au>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"8rd9U.0.sk1.R4ADp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5218
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

When a charged particle enters a magnetic field it usually follows a
helical path. It would "appear" that angular momentum has "come from
nowhere". However the law of conservation on angular momentum teaches us
that this is not possible. Should I therefore assume that an equal yet
opposite amount of angular momentum is transferred to the source of the
magnetic field, and if this is tied to the planet, eventually to the planet
itself?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 19:55:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA19989; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:44:58 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:44:58 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3334B5A3.72DF rt66.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:49:33 -0800
From: Rich Murray <rmforall rt66.com>
Reply-To: rmforall rt66.com
Organization: Room For All
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-L eskimo.com, rmills@blacklightpower.com, wgood@blacklightpower.com,
        claytor_t_n lanl.gov
Subject: BlackLight, corrected
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"A4JFH3.0.Eu4.tSADp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5220
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

arch 22, 1997

BlackLight Power's low pressure gas discharge reaction vessels, made of
thick stainless steel with long, electrically heated tungsten filaments,
filled with a vaporized catalyst and H gas, turned into single H by the
tungsten filaments, producing over 500 watts at 1000 degrees C with 100
watts input, remind me of Claytor's on-going experiments at Los Alamos,
which use a gas discharge at 2,000 volts on a palladium cathode to
transmute deuterium into tritium.  Could it be that BlackLight is
transmutting H into He-3 or He-4?  I vaguely recall that hot He is a
good source of ultraviolet lines.

The following are quotes, lifted from BlackLightPower.com :


The Company's hydrogen gas energy cell comprises a vessel capable of
containing a
              vacuum or pressure above atmospheric, a source of
hydrogen, and two types of
              catalysts. It uses a solid state catalyst to break
hydrogen molecules into individual
              hydrogen atoms. The second transition catalyst causes the
hydrogen atoms to collapse
              to smaller than normal hydrogen atoms. The hydrogen
collapse is accompanied by a
              release of energy that is intermediate between chemical
and nuclear energies. The
              Company's gas energy cells, even in prototype stage, are
already operating at power
              densities and temperatures equivalent to those of many
commercial electric power
              plants, and the Company currently believes that the
scaleup of energy cells to
              commercial power generation level will require mainly the
application of existing
              industry knowledge in catalysis and power engineering. The
Company's test results
              have been confirmed at a major Eastern University as
demonstrated by a report on
              Calorimetric Examples of Anomalous Heat from Physical
Mixtures of K/Carbon and
              Pd/Carbon. In addition, the Company recently received an
affidavit from its research
              collaborators at this University. The affidavit states
that in careful trials, its hydrogen gas
              energy cells produce 4+ times the amount of thermal energy
that could possibly be
              attributed to any sort of "classical" chemical processes.
In subsequent tests, this ratio
              has been increased to as high as 100 times.

              The Company and other reputable laboratories believe they
have identified
              lower-energy hydrogen called hydrinos by multiple methods.
Atomic hydrogen in
              fractional quantum energy levels below the traditional
"ground" state-hydrinos was
              detected at Lehigh University, Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory, and Charles
              Evans & Associates by X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy.
This method measures the
              amount of energy required to remove the electron from the
atom known as the atom's
              binding energy. The predicted hydrino binding energies of
54.4 eV, 122.4 eV and
              217.6eV and the measured energies were in agreement. The
Company has also
              identified atomic hydrogen in fractional quantum energy
levels below the traditional
              "ground" state by the assignment of soft X-ray emissions
from the interstellar medium,
              the Sun, and stellar flares by matching the theoretical
predictions with previously
              tabulated data, and by assignment of certain lines
obtained by the far-infrared absolute
              spectrometer (FIRAS) on the Cosmic Background Explorer
which is a space born
              scientific instrument which precisely measures
long-wavelength background radiation
              from space. The lower-energy hydrogen molecular species
-the diatomic hydrino
              molecule - was detected by mass spectroscopy as having the
same mass as hydrogen,
              but a much higher energy required to remove an electron to
form a molecular ion.
              These studies were performed at the Company, Air Products
& Chemicals, Inc., and
              Shrader Analytical & Consulting Laboratories. The Company
has further identified the
              diatomic hydrino molecule by gas chromatography, and the
assignment of certain
              infrared line emissions from the Sun.


More specifically, thermal energy is released as the electrons of
hydrogen atoms are
              induced by a catalyst to transition to lower energy levels
(i.e. drop to lower base orbits
              around each atom's nucleus) corresponding to fractional
quantum numbers. As
              hydrogen atoms are normally found bound together as
molecules, the Company uses a
              hot tungsten filament to break hydrogen molecules into
individual hydrogen atoms. A
              vaporized inorganic catalyst then causes the normal
hydrogen atoms to collapse to
              smaller than normal hydrogen atoms by stimulating their
electrons to fall to smaller radii
              around the nucleus. The hydrogen collapse is accompanied
by a release of energy that
              is intermediate between chemical and nuclear energies. The
catalysts used are the
              proprietary information of the Company.


Put a few hydrogen atoms in a vacuum-sealed, three-quart stainless steel
"can", add a
              few tablespoons of a common chemical compound, turn up the
heat to about 250
              degrees (Centigrade, that is) and what do you get? If you
know what you're doing, you
              can get 10 to 20 times more energy than you put in, a
clean and limitless source of
              power, and a proven answer to one of the big secrets of
the universe.


The Company has repeated its X-Ray Photoelectron Spectroscopy (XPS)
              experiments at Lehigh University which were run with
carbon cathodes as opposed to
              nickel cathodes. The data shows three peaks each
corresponding to a predicted
              energy level of atomic hydrogen as opposed to one level
seen in pervious experiments.   [End of quotes]

It seems the catalyst may involve K, C, Ni, and Pd.



A look inside an experimental BlackLight Power gas cell is surprising
because of its
              simplicity. Like a metal light bulb, the 3 inch diameter
and two feet long stainless steel
              vessel contains little more than a filament that is heated
to begin the process. The
              stainless steel "can" has half-inch-thick walls, is about
the size of a 3-quart saucepan
              and contains little more than a few strands of wire
filament that is heated to begin the
              process. A small amount of powdered catalyst is placed in
the cell, which is put under
              vacuum. Other impressive features of the process are its
inherent safety and lack of
              harmful byproducts or emissions. No exotic or scarce
elements are involved in the
              process. The "collapsing hydrogen" reaction is
non-explosive and automatically shuts
              off when the hydrogen supply is shut off. The only "waste"
products are collapsed
              hydrogen atoms, or what Mills calls "hydrinos," which can
be collected and used
              commercially as a substitute for helium as a
lighter-than-air gas.


Hope this helps!

Rich Murray
Room For All
1943 Otowi Drive
Santa Fe, NM 87505
rmforall rt66.com
505-986-9103

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 20:28:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA12683; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:05:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:05:31 -0800
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:05:24 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "Kelvin's Thunderstorm"
In-Reply-To: <19970322184417.AAA22743 LOCALNAME>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970322194017.1256C-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"u5vae2.0.563.AmADp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5221
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:

> Welcome Home Bill Beaty! <g>

Heh!  I try to at least *read* all the vortex stuff.

 
> The oil atomizer that R.A. Millikan used in his Oil Drop Experiment
> indicates that oil works also,doesn't it?

I think he used ionizing radiation to create air ions.  The uncharged oil
drops would suddenly change speed in the electric field as they glommed
onto an ion.  The speeds were quantized, as if the ions only could have
particular imbalances of charge.

> This is one of the main thoughts about the TWA Flight 800 disaster
> with respect to static electricity buildup by the jet fuel transfer
> pumps and plumbing that could have exploded the air-fuel vapor mix
> in the main fuel tank.

Electrification by contact (misnamed "frictional") is important with
dissimilar materials.  If gasoline droplets collide with a surface, I
think they acquire a surface charge, and if the charge builds up to where
a sharp-edged object can induce corona in the air... boom!  Rather than
keep the tanks full, couldn't they fill the empty space with nitrogen?
Doesn't the military do this, to make their fuel tanks a bit more immune
to the occasional bullet?

Contact electrification by particle collision comes up in other places. 
Helicopter blades in the rain make the entire aircraft dangerous during
landings.  Blowing snow can charge up a few miles of ranchland barbed wire
to deadly energy levels (frozen fenceposts become insulating.)  Dry air
and flowing grain can touch off dust explosions in grain elevators. 

.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 22 21:22:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA19446; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:59:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:59:09 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: "Kelvin's Thunderstorm"
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:58:23 +0000
Message-ID: <19970323045821.AAA29618 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"-5nKk1.0.jl4.RYBDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5222
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 04:05 AM 3/23/97 +0000, Bill Beaty wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>
>> Welcome Home Bill Beaty! <g>
>
>Heh!  I try to at least *read* all the vortex stuff.
>
> 
>> The oil atomizer that R.A. Millikan used in his Oil Drop Experiment
>> indicates that oil works also,doesn't it?
>
>I think he used ionizing radiation to create air ions.  The uncharged oil
>drops would suddenly change speed in the electric field as they glommed
>onto an ion.  The speeds were quantized, as if the ions only could have
>particular imbalances of charge.

Not to my knowledge, just an oil "atomizer" according to the literature
that I've seen. He did use a strong external carbon arc light to make
the oil drops "look like tiny stars" so that he could view them with
a "telescope".

The 12 plus ev that it takes to ionize oil or water sure makes one
wonder where the charges in Electrostatics are really coming from. <G>
>
>> This is one of the main thoughts about the TWA Flight 800 disaster
>> with respect to static electricity buildup by the jet fuel transfer
>> pumps and plumbing that could have exploded the air-fuel vapor mix
>> in the main fuel tank.
>
>Electrification by contact (misnamed "frictional") is important with
>dissimilar materials.  If gasoline droplets collide with a surface, I
>think they acquire a surface charge, and if the charge builds up to where
>a sharp-edged object can induce corona in the air... boom!  Rather than
>keep the tanks full, couldn't they fill the empty space with nitrogen?
>Doesn't the military do this, to make their fuel tanks a bit more immune
>to the occasional bullet?

That was discussed in the Flight 800 press coverage.

>
>Contact electrification by particle collision comes up in other places. 
>Helicopter blades in the rain make the entire aircraft dangerous during
>landings.  Blowing snow can charge up a few miles of ranchland barbed wire
>to deadly energy levels (frozen fenceposts become insulating.)  Dry air
>and flowing grain can touch off dust explosions in grain elevators. 

I saw that once on a red-eye commercial flight between Little Rock, Ark. 
and Dallas during some severe storm weather, the whole 727-xxx was glowing
a bluish-purple glow. The stewardess was terrified and practically 
setting on my lap as I tried to explain corona effects to her. Later
in the shuttle to the hotel the pilot said the cockpit window was 
like staring into a TV screen. Said he had never seen anything like it.
>
>.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
>William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
>EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
>Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page
>
>
Packing it in to observe Palm Sunday.
Only "Life" Insurance Premium, YOU can collect on. :-)

Best Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 00:04:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA10223; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 23:53:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 23:53:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3334EC21.5F94 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 18:08:57 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields and Wires
References: <332D4765.26B5 microtronics.com.au> <332DE6B9.6F24@tiac.net> <332E90B8.5730@microtronics.com.au> <33318121.1DE3@tiac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Oijpk.0.ZV2.b5EDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5223
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Bob Shannon wrote:
> 
> I still hold my ground.  There is no energy over time going into these
> proposed undetectable fields.  They are indeed destroyed, and replaced
> with something different in their place.
> 
> The long sought after scalar wave.
> 
> There is no evidence that the flux simply distorts in the bifilar case.

So what's so special about a bifilar coil.  Opposing fluxes happen ALL
the time.

SEE BELOW! 

By the way, the Qfield programmers must of had a good time trying to
figure out when to destroy flux and when to let it distort.

> There is no energy over time to build the fields that are supposed to
> distort (proven emperical fact).  

Energy over time is just the observed characteristics of normal coils. 
Its the self induced back emf which causes energy over time to occur.

> There is no evidence for the existance
> of the distorted flux itself (by actual measurment).  It's just not
> there Greg.

Not much, just only ALL of magnetics.

> I think these two emperical facts clearly show that this flux just does
> not exist as has been suggested.

Take two parallel wires 1 mtr apart, carrying equal current, but flowing
in opposite directions.

Would you not agree that a largely undistorted magnetic field surrounds
each wire.

Would you further agree that in the space between the wires, the
magnetic field is compressed by the existance of the other wire's
field.  

Would you agree that the compression of the magnetic field in the space
betweeen the wires will cause the wires to be repelled from each other.

If we alter the spacing to 100mm, then 10mm, then 1mm, then 0.1mm, then
touching, at what point does the magnetic field start to be destroyed
and disappear?  I only see the field distortion increasing and the
repelling forces increasing.

> This is one reason I strongly objected to your description of DNMEC
> where flux was in opposition, and summs destructivly within the
> ferrite.  

I NEVER said that the flux summs destructively in a ferrite.  In fact I
have gone to quite some lengths to explain that its the domain which
align to the vector sum of the H fields "flowing" in the ferrite which
gives the effect.  In fact the DNMEC effect is about the action of
opposing fields in free space.  Connecting the air gap to the mmf
soucres by ferrite material destroys the effect.

> The simple device with the two coils (where the flux jumps out
> of the ferrite rather than suffer superposition) is real, it's a failed
> attempt at creating these very same scalar waves.

The flux leaves the ferrite toroid in my example due the lack of aligned
domains.  Its aligned domains that offer a better flux path and holds
flux in a ferrite.  NO aligned domains, NO flux redirection.

> I'd been there, and done that.  Something very different than DNMEC does
> indeed happen.  You might want to test your early prototypes for scalar
> wave production though!
> 
> The paradox in not in the destruction of the fields, as there is no
> energy going into the fields, hence no fields.  

Paradox yes.  But not really so different to the field energy in ferrite
domains.

> The real paradox is that
> this is not what happens between "macropoles" of permanent magnets or
> whole coils.  Physical size, or relative size is not the answer as Robin
> suggested.
> 
> The difference is within the substructure of the quantum potentials of
> the field around the single wire, and the whole coil.  The evidence for
> this exists in the fact that only when we have vector superposition do
> we find evidence for these so called scalar waves.  When whole
> macropoles are opposed, flux distorts and we find no evidence for scalar
> wave production.
> 
> Think it over Greg.  No energy under the curve, but we still have
> fields?

Yes.  OverUnity effects are NOT going to fit our current imperfect
understanding of natural law.

> What does this do to conventional theory?

Adds to our understanding of natural law.

> Assume for the moment that I'm right, and the fields really do not
> exist.  Conventional theory simply becomes a special case of a larger
> set of phenomena, that are already well described by Whittaker and
> others.
> 
> Scalar EM only extends conventional theroy, while saying that the fields
> are not due to the energy has a major impact on well proven conventional
> theory.  It's far simpler if the fields do not exist.  Also the weight
> of the actual evidence strongly favors the concept that the fields do
> indeed undergo vector superposition under these conditions.
> 
> There are patents based on demonstrated effects.

Bob, I am not attacking the existance of scalar waves.  I am not even
saying that bifilar coils can't generate them.  What I am saying, it
that conventional EM theory fully explains the existance of magnetic
fields surrounding each and every mm of wire in a bifilar coil.
 
> So, which is it?  Fields without energy, and a total rework of
> conventional theory, or no fields, and a 'flip side' to conventional
> theory?

No rework necessary.
 
> I'll bet with the side having the hard, cold evidence in this one.  No
> magnetic fields, and scalar production while the oppose potentials are
> changing.  Static opposed fields yeild the free A field only.
> 
> What do you say?

Hi Bob,

In the example of the two wires approaching each other, I gave above,
when do the opposing magnetic fields start to destroy each other.  At
what field density does this conversion process take place?  I am not
saying that I don't believe in your theory, I just am having a hard time
understanding how the magnetic fields are destroyed.  The magnetic dirt
under my fingernails just can't see it.

I have never seen or done anything to suggest that a magnetic field
doesn't surround each and every mm of wire in a bifilar coil.  There is
no external field because each and every turn opposes its neighbours. 
Its just like a unaligned ferrite.  Full of magnetic fields, but not
seen as all the random domains are not aligned and adding their
very..very small fields.  Same thing happens when we stop the current
flow.  Every mm of wire senses the field decline and generates an emf,
but they all sum to zero and we see no output.

I don't understand why you say this is outside of physics?  It is not. 
Now flux being destroyed, where is that taught?

Problem with the fields in a bifilar coil is not that they exist, its
now to get at them and get them to do work.  Sort of like trying to get
energy out of the domains in a ferrite or magnet.  We know they there, 
We know there is energy in them thar fields, but how to get at it?  

First one past GO collects $200 (well maybe a bit more).

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 00:13:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA11609; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:04:07 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:04:07 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3334F342.56B6 gorge.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 01:09:22 -0800
From: tom gorge.net (Tom Miller)
Reply-To: tom gorge.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
References: <199703230356.TAA21177 mx2.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"-8SI52.0.Hr2.pFEDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5224
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Rich Murray:

1. Just a guess, but how about Potasium Carbonate as the catalyst.
At a low enough pressure, it might vaporize at 1000 degrees C.

2.  Maybe, instead of 4He, he is getting  two hydrinos, analogous 
to H+H=H2+heat.

3.  I am unable to find any Mills patent. Does anyone know the 
number(s)?

If you are listening, Dr Mills, How about licenses to individual
researchers/entrepreneurs to build their own unit(s) for either
experimental or development purposes? Ten thousand minds can
invent more uses for this technology than BLACKLIGHT can by itself.

Tom Miller

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 00:53:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA13380; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:41:44 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:41:44 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703230841.JAA31022 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:26:00 CET
Subject: Rotating magnetic field
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"6tQNX3.0.-G3.6pEDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5225
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Thanks for all the suggestions. *But* :-) they're all variations on the 
>theme of

>put-lots-of-coils-in-a-circle-and-pulse-them, which I had already thought 
>of. I'
>m looking for something a bit more elegant, if I may be so picky. Could be 
>we ha
>ve to think outside the linear coilform for this one. Could there be a 
>Hamel-typ
>e wobble in there? It may have to sit on the back burner for a while and 
>simmer.


>Dan Quickert

I dont think you understand that you have been offered solutions that 
exactly give you what you asked for.

* A smoothly rotating magnetic field vector.
* No stepping

You dont "pulse" them - that would give stepping.
You use sinusoidal current, that doesnt give stepping.

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 01:48:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA09116; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 01:09:58 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 01:09:58 -0800
Message-ID: <33350104.2161 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:38:04 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Bifilar Coils & Internal Magnetic Fields
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7667451E2A8A"
Resent-Message-ID: <"krhgh2.0.ME2.aDFDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5226
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------7667451E2A8A
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

As a follow-up on the bifilar internal field discussion, attached is a 3
x 3 wire matrix.  Clearly shown is the internal field matrix.

Bifilar coils do have internal magnetic fields, but like the fields of
the unaligned domains in a ferrite, the total of their fields sums to
zero.

I have sent a much bigger 5 x 5 Gif to the DNMEC Gif list.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

--------------7667451E2A8A
Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="bifilar9a.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bifilar9a.jpg"

/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof
Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh
MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR
CACyALQDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAGwAAAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAABAUAAwYCBwH/xABBEAACAgED
AwMDAgMGAggHAQABAgMEEQUSIRMiMQAGQRQyUSNhFUJxByQzUoGRFmI0Q2NygpKhsSVTssHC
0fDS/8QAGwEAAwEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQFBgIHAQD/xAA3EQABAwIDBAkFAAAGAwAAAAAB
AAIDBBESITEFQWFxEyJRgZGhscHwFDIz0eEGFRYjgvE0QlL/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AOItKmp3
dSs6jMtgXhFeuVGzIUOX6MOSx6gLMQD89ID7WBLla8cR/R0jVIEXgJFbWJcH/lWUAZxk8c+e
CT6HpMJHr9WJTKLjPb6eMrNtHQyPDoEKgHhi5j8Mzbq6bW31CHBvCUzYdv1uiO8M557NpUMq
AeAVOCTlC7Pe1zLErK1zXFxscrcfZcXqVi3Jp1pdVvV61e2q2KlgKdpVhsB24J7guCSxw4bP
nLQU5JYtS06vtSVJTYrsylgrsTIjMAMH9QHC4OQBweAaZx1odRMQ4sTpBFtBLCQDa0g+QV25
2546O4YBB9GySRRaratWCYq9OmevINrK247jnAPKKoOMcibx3BZGKl4jjPFKw45ZGt3D+f0I
a3uv/SWK000Mes0HrK7Mdys0bSRPtznKqZs7TklxndnL57SHnj9txU3Z5LuizSDap3GQq7j9
M87lZcop8Z3YXIydAIJDW0zT7AEU8znULQZi6q6yCRkRzuA/WkTGd2ULYJJBkVtMXhu6jAZF
k1CfpVyRwibiA6rk7s7pJiPncxJJO45yUtDbO3q4SMOaJgZU1jsZTFarrKojGVbYcMxI85V4
xkZyBjPA3J7r2LPufq19Smgq04lWbtLqzMZAAozzJkYXAI3ZBORtZtFBHW1OKAIViNRUrqAW
VFQ9/Pyrb4+cnO3k8DK2NJCZLMcSdWazJbqhMASspKsMkgHqR4weScyN/l9KQ4cWLghDCDdE
RiS2/wBNSrmVQA7VnZgzLjgyudxAYFQqYJbKg8ZX1VY063qsVo078cUKbUbV0dnDtwSldF8j
cY0JU5PK97YyyqSteitafBYO65GbtR5BlZAxDOjDG5lLNkg/cszKB5D3M51S4bUXVNi1TW1Q
mZdpiUgB4+CSgJdWZgQx6vBPDM7TwNcQF8u2FuIDRCxaVLBVNcirmGNDO0suFdiOZrG3iRyr
ZMYLKVyWdgyF/klErGgRJbCSsACgZUs84wf5YbCscEHbudj/ADNxxZguXaky6QtWAxok2n12
hQhDk9QY+0Sbhg8EKMZwXY+uIr12q1hr1FFnFaSewjCMfVVlixtcKSCdxADFQu0MMAFkNOfZ
7RGXgoTKgSPz8L5pfoNKzUsXS2pSyULk/UijljEaCUqciRSuULKwAKjBBXcrAhG1ek6m1bUI
K9WBTLatvDPAcIZXBJkJAJ/WTaxZsncoKsXJidkEiSfxswyStK6NBXm6g7phFF1Oq2Py8iZP
IzjubdzpPaskWqXNHs1mhd6tDr3i8eRNPYyd0ZzjcrrOCRwm9kA+4Lna8BrHOfoB7ZedlfoZ
i4uidmMrd6D97aFDFrPt+1WmaDpzyBlAIBG0N5PgYTGPHJ/oQaky3dRrzxKxEdTJyQCvVddu
OSM/pEHxnd4/DH35Ksl2OujgyLRnQ8Dl5GjCBh8ZIPJwOM+AfQcQ/wDjNtzllWvCm5vhsyFh
z/yuCfnDDjuGUqUONK1ztbH19wo9Y1vTnBoEumM82qXFE7p1t1RGjXuRhEsiY8faWm5z5YeQ
ARb7c0uaOCOt1mttH+jA5XymSQRycA8fsV2HjHr4p6ejtNnJrX5pAz8lQJ3VzjwTsLfknPHO
M6f2hHXpe3RqNxjGK1UCXIPYioGbgf68Y+PGc5JWylsWFvAILqd9S8Qg5Xz90k1eiFuuNpB+
sgqMWyVLIgsFsnwCrlQP+Tz3HGeqae729P1B7tp65hWzco1ZHiaSewxRWBDLyTM6hjnCoFYn
cNzn3OraVoSTgAWVglu6msFgAQ3JWURthcgnM8qryCUXyxjUeuq0XV1YxxxoK31Fes0e39NR
GjyIc57R1ZIlHBJwBk7ijUqOzbW0/WSddEKaQsZoRl3IuKxagCR1Ioq0UCmNYKdIywRMSQc4
AaTy2BGBtJbfuyxZfer17mhzQRXZNGr2Iun1Kkyy0nXdztYABBjcp+wuXwd53bl17SZ7CQzp
1w86HrCsdphslzI5ZV4x9m0nI2ovOCsg60pJGqavXswiPUJKlaqytHsaN5dygEY4+5CQCcKA
BtxsXTiihLRIkXPcBfFvHqjdH0/V6NEac79SSkRCzRyKV8BhjrV5iOGHClFznCDlmnrSaQBI
b9nbKUntMU6TN/IqxnO2Nh90bHzkgg/PqepEj2B5ACOyZ7mgutfkshpN+zqiyCxVLARtC8jZ
hOpQOGB2ZxsbDKQeeXx2q53MrdmCFPqr8JdAuySTV75TqnnxFErxntGRgbsgHBOGdvrGkRXY
F1yjLUq0ZkzOtm09ToOWO8MyAgFiQHTK4dPkk4ywopHZDQw0ZrCMHWf+HMRIf84lZwGB8hy3
OQck+psNZlcZfPJdzlsOUgy8QpD7qa3rumQUq/8AEqidzx0K8q/R5KpnGGdwiOVzsUEscAkY
GhSB7K0I2izJqFptRmXo4YRRlWjDA5w4zXjIwzHc2M5LSJ1GrA5gnvq6DH6z11Xb8gFImP54
245POeCdVTVoVnevJDXnlUI00s8108btpHUYBcGRmAwc7jkYJDMurRILFwI5ocb6Y/jtfgqd
c1mSrpeq6rXIFiQGnEolBIWMuC5HcNwZpmOCcoBnyxYfQ52smqJqLUOjVHRqSKeDvKk8jJwq
oAeDiQ5JzzTPap6rrNHTKMsLVKkSuYoXDLsAZApIJ4ACoVOSwlPHGfTW2Vh1ShIclJOrX24x
kEByQeQR+kABz9x/1Vnf1cBGa+yEAWKl3s1LT5Ux1ZJniYggsyMjPjHjyic+f9Dyu1W3NT1S
nSq6cVXaZYph2IGVWOzlQvKqVznjdnnHpnq/GnSSvytdksOM5wqOJGx8Z2qf6k/g59c6kvSh
NhUIauwnIA5IXO745JUsB+/z6Qa8DCe7++aQkkwYCRfPzQLyGF0eqDIob+I1k2Fg3BEqbecn
9RmAPBMgHgHJdu3LBRuTUa9m3ZhtxX6cVeTqGRJCFlVTht3MkpOQwXrJzkgEeKJ0qyRx8z07
BaIKQQxyWC/jmN9vjAyeOPQs8FVFSCUxiGIkIt+AqYT5Mcc3AUDGBgsRg4yAPTsFQAczmExF
VMNw7ULuPVtN1YNK0sunW94ksQWaUzfRORyUkj2GNWOWYluQCTjB3nRWahCIirdiRhI9bTCk
iNIpzuknfAkbcEIAwecsJB91L+39TmIlNG+rRfqCeKQylc5ydz4m8DlYzyPwSckV9G1G/WEl
sSNFGhaWbUIzWhj243ExMAXI4bLdmQcMpGPTTtoEi7TdMYNC1pWa683uBNQtTwSQOpngSWGQ
tHdeRlRMMQOF2RqWB7u0t9zbvRfbU0VHQ71zMR32DFCAcFEjwgT9lDiRwB4D5HLEek0WiW7y
rOFFyKPuFybcK4x4MaEZfAbKvggg8SehZoTW0eOkWEozHHIVyOpvdVdvzlsnJ8854PmTXytq
WiLtt4XXEtY+neOqQTkO/egblu3JcpOKU1hb9pHmmTxHEHGw8KcDlWIPyW4BPDTTF3NcmxhZ
rR4GOCoWMj+pZG/ORg/t6MJijikmmlCRR5lkkYfYmBk8eDz+MnOMHIyTo1ZKWiUIJ4lNmOrG
soVtxU7QCBxz4PGCMZxkf4h6eB8zMLRa2Xck2SWj6STLnvWdETye0njVS9iSq5lQDLdYgmQF
RyCXLDA8HjA9N/b2oPrPtJ6s8YgsW9yyROSquAwV0JxlN4BXI7lzkcgE36hFBWsPdXKwzSD6
lmGVjOwASt57eEVv2KtwATKDPE9CdZthWqSWmZckIeDvHxg+SQSOVb5JI6qBwzaM73RhI+Em
WLrb0TahEFyzLSRbUUqxw26VqQo8R3Fk3Mm5o3ViWV1z1M5GX2O+alkl0rVIo6cU9rTpIz1L
dmIGOFCrf3acIhUj5DDtCSAqGQ4bYV2oahGlPV66TxgGOGZW2vEGADBZFIKqwwDgjIyMY49D
XtJuaRficNPd06ZNv1K8yxSZLAyopVZlYk8AA5Y7cSNuf5TVrAcDsndnz5zV2Kqi2hFjZ94Q
MX1NmdinXklZVSaIWCkkbH7NzqQ0kW7kMMy5yO5mYFZc1ulUohK8J1NopEkjoaT2Qx4fcG3A
ZlwVYblDJu8qp2liLenwoBEwg6HT3otlS8CoeS0ciriWLBU4zjlM9Mjb6AjqUTGFWv8AWGZ3
ZOvCzrIwHcyRDJlcAhixDHae6T1Wjr3NbhN7qQGsa8tcCTwT725rlFtCryWZJHnmLTydCnM8
atIxkKKelJ9pcqeRyp4zyZ6Bk0jV7DCSxUmD48S2XiYc/wCWPjGc4yWOPJ+BPSbq+G5u4L8Z
Wg2woujaoPba5pw0+S0oLNYhijaQE5ySwG7nJyfP59d2LiRynqyMZWJIjUFpGP7KOT/+ufSS
poPt3T3u2N0UJsndGNUgESg43Dpq6qCBu5CsR4GRlSe4jp9Ykx+4NOru/G2gYEQ+fO4sc58d
wGMHHOWWfQAuJxE8/wBpCTZuPIyEgbimXUvTsFrwxw7iNskzFm+MMsYGSOR9xU8/b8G2LSRd
cfVu9wnDFXJ6W34AjGQVyTjIY5I5Y49KJtC/jFypagjvXGgmBjsyziOBuQf8uSMAcxoQxYck
4J00b6vGhiWlp6s+DIy3HbceBkjpcjljjx25+e9iGicSGxd/zVHcyOmj6tgra9OKtYnmMhmN
lUBz4VApwvGQSS0h+f8AEwSV+/jUWY3dJ3NnFxy2c9wEEgP9fubzn/6soPcmr6pFUn01aNYS
z1n3TGyzLGGypySi5JAbHOBgs2ADjAS6qmmmtXjSOwteVpUdZw2Qd4GTsB5BQ5XDdvOCFEex
pNjNkAGHFlqhQw1M95HOsM7DI7l63r0SN7f1QLGi/wBylwMA7SEb54IP9T/+W801qxU9hG5h
ghsA88f0zxweRtPBwd/jNv3YbNKav9JnfGUU7x2nBA424GO3wB4wMYj6barrUl7W4NerwWp5
656YSaWNUAP3BjkEZDsQ3gBCQNuRH1V/4dawXLcgiCknEfWNznu/q2Eft+TTF7dTnEbOSAip
sIACqTlTk7FQnnGSSBggtbXt3tKsK6RixtGAV2o+PgFWIB45OCOf5Rj0curNNC6DQ77OGMe0
NApDLkgDMnBOfjOd2R5IdRqyNdqS1LenahFXm7jKnSZvuBGBGzk5O3gA/cD4wfWNrqN7ZbEd
XkuMBkcJGkX3927JafTKXt3WKUn8OhbTbAULMlF3pyISO3ekZXcMAlS4I84zk+mA0WtWmlv6
lesXmjxMGvuoirlPDqgCohGD3YBGTyMn15ka+hdGGsdcrPDCuEVpa74/P3KTzjxn8Yxxj7Gl
WtIk9etp9gI25GraU+wkYyRIgccZHjPjnHn1PdRveSBI4Dln47lai2mWtw4Lnkc1sta1yTU3
NbTTikvmzkYk/eMYII84Y4GcEbgOUMbaMlxIZpktWlmH6fMsofOOxAGII8nYv8o+AB6XVdIq
PNZmiptJNYYNL9dE4ijfk5CugLEZOOORuBK5w2mqaZarojtqssB2gCOlBEqYHjCuJOcZGQdu
G4AHMjlHQMa8MYbevjvU2aUF5nmda27s9VTrGpRye29QH01iGCSk0cUswES73GxV2k71HfjJ
AXzyQWZ6/wDiIZaZo2Kyd5izt6XkkE/5jhs/AK452yOFHuXToZ7tJ57d2SaoxkWSSQIM8EDt
CjjaTuBBJBGcKXj88u69ct2eokrQxA9saPjAyD5GOcqvjAGAAAAAPQ9jbHLh1QhdCytiF9F7
NFrFR5grFYt7dNGl7O/LYBHgZwQPjO9WwRtNda5pdeO7pN8xw06zCKNpwRGY9gITew2kjc2F
ySQCTvJYv57plw6xps0TAxOE2SMqDABGMjPHhfB8YHICq0Or9pfxLTtO+lNNpacLN0THKpk+
9uMMEyMYyTyC2MZyqL7R2WC4g5IOD6Jhcw5dhNvMo6SGQqbGlXq9+nnYd8+TCR8dRN24cgYI
Y5IJc5Usbp/uSGhug1QGCrJkMtgLtXP4IJXJGe0kkgZx+eJ6rWyk9z2/QuKiAIDKklhVyNqA
MgQcnJXeQM8ZztfMNpNUapDqfR1ShPGmyLYOqo4PCgCQIO44HAAxgcH1h6+hgxFrvLVNxuaw
iob1Tw91rbGmM08VnSr4saXPLujdXjnSOUMdrxs4ZI5A5I6gByC2QZNpfQPLo/tqLqOwhksY
yzb5J7O3x9xMkm3d852j8AesVc0/2pciqDVtUrSyzMkc1e9HXglRQPJISOVQAox3jIAxuBCu
NrOg+yIqRqaTbrwx2eZxX1Jn3suCpYFyDjJIznGfU+WISBjHudbl6nL0WinqcEPTEZ+aaWtV
1PULDWIkEETf4aPP3FfgnajjJ/7x9T0DXvaVVqw1otR08pDGIwZ7IDYAx8Y9T1waUjJrBZZG
QTPeXDfwP7Th9ejjcpbpXIGIJQ9JbAfkg56Jkxwc935P3d2/k+5KO4Dpai3GcGhMAc8nOV/J
IPnyfI3dTOQ2tVtvcg1XRFkqO+YAGifcAx/xAXOW8H+ufPqwLFBGF6+o0EfJAlfqrj4O5t6r
ySOCP3zx6qPqGEknM8Cm3VETcj63Wmra3Q1CY1oLKtOV7oiw3+SCGTlgcnw3OWI5JIcnbwSX
VySWJPz45/8AUH55IPORnG311K1NSiNfTdSpSSAyZhA6a5wGXc7AnBOD8f6nLippOjK219J0
/aWyWFdMr4x5HI4HB/2IJBapdoMpnjO90rVQQVQAxZrL+7tPsyyzVXlkDnMiM+AJ0ABYZ+MY
XI424UkbMdPA6hQsUZZK8+d3we7a4yeRnBOMEH5BBBGQfXsHuLQtKbSpZIdGqzTbxHCsEKqT
I5CICR4BLgZJ7QQQc7GOVi9qTz5S7p8UdpoI5JIIQg2sZJQPs85443Y5x2gBo99srbTLBlsi
nKaRsUXWyAXnSqVbOcAnGcen/tvZFZFl7kcKHsCCTBflf3GMEg+QQQCCuC6HWfasEUVuUPKw
VWaNQMEAA8HjJOQfgHCHIXv6WvsaVe025HJJXEmkw1mmtSxModCnICeOO1RnGOcgLsTZQrtp
xsjLY9OKNLUx6XzKbaZq2k167VpdYobI1xlp4xF4J2jPkAAZwAOQoHG1Sr2v6IY1A1Wk0hOc
/VKeRkcnd48/Jzk8nOXYjZTqhdiogVUVVHAAHAGR8A8ecgjyCA6HWLNyHTrNjT41mtAAgSt2
keWLEnwFz5J8+TznzXadeyaQRW1UyFscbruFi47yoNWgZAI4brg42qakiEn45ZQo/qSBn8fP
P19kBj/CLjE8AloCCf27/HHjPznjj0vis6peijZZ0Ztu5ugmxIz8gOxcMPIyqnJHx8sI/a2s
XY0lmownPObErTrkfmNtoU+eRgfAwD6iufFCes7z/wCkywOe44Re3eQvot30bry0Y+kDvIWY
vJg/BXZhvI3AM37bj92hhtxW6okgl6kbZJ6gyQVzkEHuBycEHkHzycvlx/H9PsTLqmkj6dMr
EazKWkGTk7S5/AyCc8gYOTi2pqcCytZbqVJHQO72Awgbt43OMx9y4AYZPKjDDKO9QTBkoe0D
uN1y+F0rXRvGE8181+iIrK2FwBIQPAXbtAzz2jwoOMjG0nICh4vN5vbU8mplEytcnPUfBI/P
BIPnIBO3lWzt2tt3eq67e1KtDDo1Drr1GF14EadIjHtf9OQEKx5yuG3ZK42sR6+aBSOsadFc
QdCCRc9xyQQSuO3HGVHIxwARjCCL0XZ203NaTGcyhU75KOnxTbsv0lukaY9KvDWVjIykeFK9
xYk/g5yPJOe3BI2Eweg1ay166V1BbYBjkfnHH/tgDjIAHgekGt1q+k+3rM0EhhnSPskyxclc
MU7SCNyrtO3GFH+VQBRp7e54dOV7FW214Fw8bLXngC84C/qrITgJ3Mzbg3IbK5m7R2gMxfMp
cw/5kBK11mg533rS27cen1wZpUTd2Ro3/WHb9oA3FvP2jOf33ZkQ/U3CwkbTn6eQAvWQzck+
Qe0Dj4c+QeMnH0teadJoqIlmQdJrN+ZVmYhh8xKyhTwcKRzuOCSWZXJPrE3uHT4JyKmmuG6r
1QLEp2g5CpsLHHHCqQM5PHIw1Q0yus2x43/SefEHERMIPetZrevtWFKs1LUKMiHdGpqmT5CK
waLeo5fGPOD4OQklnuDWKtmvE0NXUWlyVCy05YQQRk5aQKv8v5//AF6Re4rHu95oKxXTUhC4
iNtG6+CQn6qxs0bNk57Mg/aQOoI2t9wap7xh0XqWtM0yyqlZUu0pnMO0nGCCMjjLGRmVABjO
cAomjaQx2V+Dsj4haauhMlFgaL5KsaleiAEWkznIy2RCef27/H+3qeu4ppmrwmxFAJzGpkVw
3a2OQMN4zn1PX4ygGxA8SsgKmNgwm1wtDHZkp1YLE+hqteYZiVLSiyM4xvSUIqnBOQHbBwBk
chfPqWhWkZ5q96hITnYapkBH79LeP2OSD2/Hzk7GqRe5NWszNHVe4rLGYnqPaaNiGAhjUckK
EySMgszEYzg/SkCrsktUIDtGY5tVnqOoPgmIr2ArkhfwBjOV3HbsyMn7bHh/VYmDXdQMGHl7
o2afSVmcx6ksMjk5/UMTFj5LRyY5I+WU/GCfV8cl1I0MTQWkbBQsxjLKRkHOGBJ/ICg88EHh
PZufwO5Th1S7frLqLAw3IbCWYSD5G+Qlgq707goyHJwwVWcsQLp+oMpw88U4EsyxorTwzNhS
dvbneAP/AAk8buTS0ZibiOdu1TJaF0XWab9m/wA9yNuai8/td7W1MpX+qjRwGEci4dD45IbB
54O7BBDEFxA6Te47ghJKtSrls+QxebIPJ/8AbJ/LEjemv1hTkv0L5MccsUkgcH+QjEmDz8kn
99+AOMehqWpJZqabrcZUNKFgnAUhe5tu3nztc5weNpbzn0WjqnRdZp5Lsf7kZjlGSf60gi9v
6tKdoJqSsSAOezzk/tgD9iAM5APOvzdDT1rrIjTzTxbl4703gvkYIIKbsg5BXPJGS42sWZZq
P0QUD65jXduQdjKzPzyc7d+Dg8tz5Ysq1nWa1TU6NR5mEqu0zIoOXAR0VQfkkHAGf6YyMtT7
SknsBqfZDggZC0BuZFz2ot3uXNRvO2pWYzDMIoxGse3GxTySpOdxc+T5J/JP1YaUc8X1t6BW
Uhke3KqAAHIwOFzznOM88kDj0RPp1rT9FDy/pXbTiNO3O6Q5LE8faqhiAfIQDPAzm71mlo1e
ez+vBSR+iIqUS9Q7eC7Fu4DcQnkEHB53Z9SGXqXGxy3WXx0MssoEhtwW+0vUNESxJDpxn1e7
FhmNOEupDZ5EpxGPDeXGSrDzx6u1W3aqQLJqWu09Kd8dCvBNCASCASZbC94GQ2VRCu7BDduP
MKMkd2AWpKSTpNhlb+8XlhAwyx7dm3cu/nuDDqZ8HBc0Lt/RFms0QlSEgM0sdKOCJ9pOOspJ
k25bHAXAyckYb12dmsidiGvHO/C+nldX4Zm046MMstjP1LKLSneWeU5ME86osm8YZoZNoC78
Hcu3AZVPwm5s7NVmqtJLTRUm5aWLaVEzcnycbXPjcfzyGwACKGqUdUmappLTLfoP1oYsdMo6
uX+jZmATkCVUKE4TeCNqnqaB46fuHTYtT00d0kasFK7SwKhgDnx2kHnyOeRg+lJsVI8OAsN/
7tuug7QojKfq6fW2Y7UFV+i1Q1b4giksrECljp/qbW5GCRuAOTx57j4J/UG0evF1tQtxoNtq
4+FDcMUwjHjgbnUnIyTkEkkqCmj1atpGqHTrNjp2JJy1dGy5be2WzgEcszDBxwOc5OTalqVb
WoJLLhOvvjiIGSrIhJxjkM3Uz/mJk8ljm5FtJ8UZI01HFSZo43gmU2y39iPvmnQSe5N/epZl
MUddyCGBU5jQYICsAC3njGSyAB+f4j/DqETTWHlNWACWxMCWfanLEAnnPcec8nzliy0zdSeS
9YcivW3BSSTnH3yH9wSyj5wWPIbPoea5FqumxiCXfDcPSHBBdckOvJH8gceeMDBzj0pNVPkc
CdCvnTNZaNoy4aKGG7ZEcdiW7cvzQiazSqKiLGDuAPUPP3LwN+4nOFwceuI7lrTbEbwSQ07D
7SFy1ixKue3cqkMcfsWGAcHA9cJbjC2BJZlr1btmWa0YiVZYYV2Eh1/JRQcAnDkAEZJ6d4Kc
1DSbCtDqduPqnTNGrxQowK5OXcnJwjLlXyeCo+ZGBCJG5BPdGH2c3UI8259UgUXzqtjp9yzC
xBDtyONsYUI+QSGWbwuccsR60GhaqteBpGZZdP3AvahLIITjlpYZDvjDbgc5cEAudgOfWJ1T
Sr9JYQZNMqW2YCHrXZJpJsjBRZDtdRz4TIOR4Ddyx9ciouDq8U8cyhT1I0/VjUtySwUB0DNj
O0KWAwH8heWhD2YCMuG7l8twTkVZUsaGnrBent7S0e6Fs0mnrwSKGRaNtoomHwwVO3kYORjP
nzn1PWKoy2LcLWNNtrLFI295a1+WDqOQMs6xjG88ZJ5PHjwJ6Q+mlbl0hSrqiEkkx+SqVKen
QS2gXVSiM1lNolMWDumLcd83MaHhjl3Q7WIYSb3MlWYxxG+kybzMsN8WHADKScTgsDtZnO0D
53YIbYyCGSm6tYgRK6JXmaRuksbxEFQSvCrIjgqQAI2xj9QgsqGjym+pRLcTMNonKqsjITuS
JAv6byDaMHkRhc5GFWPc7NEBZcnNcOsT19Pm5No9OpfUQzXqFKzbjsIZXaortKk7BVyAgwwk
KKSQDiNjg79jVzReYbTvOFmehYaQlmlib/DdjnuYhkO4Ej9Vz5z6KmWKWEqyNHVjjaiEgYO7
LxvrxHPc5CgPJyqhdo8M5Fglk9w2p0rIZpLeY5GRsI8aeQrEZ2Dcd0rDJydoYsAsjaErXOLh
kAuWNeWBu9auwje5PY8F2SN7OoVIy7qEUvNJGSkiqAMYk2yKODgMDtyMBM+iQyV7LU7MRqQ3
6NWIRIDG+94X3jBxg9ccc/bnPOBqJVHtjQJXjkSa/ZcBWlDbXncKq9gO4IqqCQMkJGSckEnO
aZPp9PQ6mmrYeWR9VCvM6EttrOTESAACTHXiQ4A87j8+s5TvtG5zftxZctTbgNyqzRU+X1Fg
61/BMNS9uGG/oyi1nq22jzsPH6ErZ88fZj0PV9rwt/aAlifozx0aVexGSnd1WaZUwOe0AM3G
CGCH4Pptd1qlZ17TR1G6NYS2WKxsWWTHTRTx9pWSU+OSg5GDldXtQav/AGkWkMpau2lFGgJb
pyKkiMsjfGCZJU2/hDnh/QIHSYCL26h9T7LmngoGSAwnPn3r57isPaEtuB+wznTKmFBBx3TP
4H80eNp8iEYPf6zMNSLULlKDoiWCR1WOJl3hYIiGJ5yO5xGDw25CnGQT6Ya061dP0+iBP1dK
MumyGIZdYW2iFu3y7KsJO0H7mGAeADpP0usrAjuiV79VqE0anYyTKpIjVByCN0h5UjsXzuCv
XpIiPsGXz2z70rUN6SpcW7skQWmuqv0snRpGuZ0hNj6aOpBjbE+IwHfcnUcIZABuw2OGf6KV
aSsQsVefUWeTpSdJ0ewxRj0JRKxc7l5BZiOB+AsljTGzQksWZ4ayakkVmaZoy0cUyhFkjdiR
gEIF2s3J3DJJ5o07T3aC5WS8t+G101aSGJYo48csysGIaTyAV3BSqqQqgAaRtNG6LrapB1Sc
RN8hplr3oBIlp6gLtBN8crFXQ7k+qjAJKuVwwnRxkMP1BjPewI9N9K1qaGVtRqT/AFQ/SS9G
oAYSSHar7Y89srhmKKCyyMzqXSTL9SQyW69OTcWazqMsu5FA6cSl++POexsJuyW3Gck46g3q
KlmGiNP1Zq0cyfQ2JngdyFkgKk/THOQyjevkH7PHPqHUR3aY3i91Vp6wwvF9Cnnu8abf1X23
f3DrS3FqomQXWSSSE7ip4OI1cbhnG+MjjDBlHpWnf8QTRC5/d5akRidZFIYq7BhwOOJocZ89
Tj9g/cftoT+3q1KhLJc1eSErGWl2JMRC6ySyd2QCHbkkgPKuT3vustafos2oaNqEd5pILaSR
Dft3BZY2lVyWBYfZjafu3ktnLh5VozTta0nCA4X5Z+yoz09FLnLZX6Vp+izajqlaWzFOqWEM
cLyKFkjeKMhgvBILswB8EnznPpT7b1bTm9q17QqiSHTtLcxQRDCyyLCpmlcjOH3B0DAcAsST
1Uz3r9PTK38VaC27PNpE8sYNjBV4txA88lhYPjB7GyW3tnqt7bgLatJpnfUrXkMSIBuj2wQs
jqQp5Un5BPB4bLq5YxGIsROTreVgfG67hhorERWzSTWKw0iG3Rklaz9LFFp46QxI+8KZNi55
YqyYHPKHIwCWurxVZoP4jqXQi1G1qMiyWYwI5K6RKVIWTh2BWuQTkHLk4zw7SlbpaxZkp2tt
GysrypKygCGZ2yrY3EPDLvcjLEKzMoclo8LHp2atB4Ja2x44XqLEz47DGpkrM3BDYHDDGVCu
N6l80IZXNNjuUqppnQFwOTSr65ip1pNsdbSvqK4kenHp++JQ4IHXbaAQAG4ygXL5DDO4e9Wo
X4ItMkqwyQlon+jefqwyJIXfdXlJDoyqjEeFxkBW35kptarWSuGmntNasu5kaGGPrS7SuHid
2AWXtiVlALBh2ouAz06hYt2dKu6kKtqpRriV4JX/AEekRCIoosHaQAZJTtGQGcBSSXzUlkjc
A5uqXhjkabk5c0os+29W90w0rGnQLJHVpw15Cy7V37BIQoUYxiQf65+Mep69O9u6xpmhDU60
YtyobzgLVpyy9PpqkJVumjBTmIkDOdjIfn1PSAkP/wAqk2iLhcrD09O1TSZZ9bT3DHrOnTIN
96NDJ0CBuKTQ/eo/UbtUjHlgAcemUd0SQomnVY6rTxlC9S0GjxnuEJU/pIcDqMFHwAGYhycd
N1LTJSb1Wxbgavt+ogfp2w5yQAQdkisxyYydpK8h2KmVVDom2d00aT+IU5ijznoFZYogMK0s
bDcQFIIjGOqPsUANuCyqDm3a7X580Xyto3NcTHmNyEPtyx7jv1k0tiBEmJTloUmgJHY23PSi
wuFHdnJODgufQ446HtHTFRQLF6cbQqjZ1SvGB5Eca54HO3J+5id0i1HTdHofTaPZgtWGxI8p
cSgFhnqyFfORghRjcMBdqqSqERrJYksMrmWTBkmcDfIR8swAz54/lGAFCgBfUaonkqOo8WA0
Hbz4JGoqm0bA0daQ+Sqtx2dRjsS2LchsyI4MyhsQkjkIp+wYA4BBO0ZJPPoHSNInqzQ6fJP9
QaVT7yRlllc7TtySABEAPOd4xjjL2OIR9MlQ88g/Si4UY/zMSDhQGXPBxlRhiVV7akMkH1M0
gQWLUhnnCp2AlQoHPJG1cEnk7mP8xHq1s3Z007D2KLJUNhjJqCSSk1WIz379lkO2OT6dWxlc
IATg+CQ8hGQccAefI9zTp01iDV4rEoWtEQKyA5cecgg/cRtwMAEoBkcH1oK7PU1OZHJavabq
xAqexwO9c/uCWA5JPVY/Ia+SpFMpaPsycjao2kn5wAf6cec/PBcc9DJC/IZEW7kRhhcRIw6i
3G3BZe0jXJbIjnzJdqiSCYvuG9DgOW5we+PBHPbwcgAh26VCzprGWyNJlsoLdDU3BQokq7ni
LggkktIShY9smVzwGZCs1PVBSR6gnoyJZrRTS7QYpCyFSACRty4GFIA6X3Zw3yW9PC8vRa9p
scjO7LYUTROzsS7OVZmQck43qBknnLbiQhsTbEqhEBEMyoqW9HgVXrTwagkC9S1TlSeOU4Bd
pUfaSzMO4qpZl24Y5Iet7uoagkkQhsWbBcqj2S9SpENvlkz1ZBlsFXD7iW5HcGqoVTO4NKkh
jjPdZ0luAVz3SICMnGCF7/OMEt3WahR+hrR2NRrWXrSMFWbUZ+jFI3PBicgggA4Ji5PP/Mfp
q3Yvn7X7ESL4CQg6GmtFDqUc+p17urXc00rUupLHp8ckmyRUUEsEUbeSB9gXOGHUOvp1NZs9
rAPar148faSiix5GfIfAAzkgHJDeqY7OpSBY6ViSNSoSNKsEaRY/ly0obqJjjKL4DDaQwzzM
7zRmpG6R3USSOrTrzS2ZFmnYEzM7dygFiQSOAzHcxbDELhKM10S2Rp7T5Ki1Fb1HU9H1FdSn
EYmIijDsQYdm/wAbsdwiyRjPcAftx6aTRCE0a1cFZFdDCAclEA7m4ycbTtzzyy+Mg+r2pSS6
lptWKMRpGklmMKpI2oqxhQAPH6oP544BLAkrSaUN2Mai5ZxY7oFcgBYTgIeCcFhtc/PeoOdq
hkPp3vLewXt5pN8LnEFxNh/Uo1eq1ta0HVCfUiSqzDkKrxO2AD8Eoh+D2/vzPaGoTaRPTkns
PYaxXaKy7OWbfG5O0EnllLOP3C5HHPp7qqRtHShwelNbhZnwNse1g653ZGGKhc8/4meSSJFv
0LWILwDjqVbzypIzOA4fErZyTj/GKE5YfOAdu4klIRS4XDJEicGMHRuzGYRnuzSRZno6hpsk
qSWZJIGhiQFC2x5N7LjuACyqU/7RiATkPi5L1mX3QLOoXbaQwRxqaomP66oHZW3MSrsm4OgY
EPt5JJLPsqGqxyRyaZd3R4Ku0YYB4mVwyyID5UMFYZBHAzzkEP3VRpBoptaq1oUl34toxWCQ
+TyQCjnBfp9wJyVLtuRlaOV8bRE7MjLmFqdmbQgq4+jqBn6fxZh/cDSao5qGI2JptjrTBIk2
g9MDp4kQ7iBuFhhlWxlCuREq6tqLwSwNbrX42G3U5ZwLK5QD7kVXkBzjLFsKUVcfzaqvTaSJ
20zTrEspACItZkisjb8SkdLbjABLnIJxvBYTsdOpWrMJj1T6PSbWNs1eSU2JWyc7kPagyCcH
9YHLhst1Az0lTgbfQefgmyaGnFiBl85LEw+1dSnrwotrKQRrEiwwuVUYB/kjYc5znPdndyGB
M9b9RSrosUb6xOFzmX+JzV95yTnZEVTJ+TtBJyTk5JnpM7QB7fAftLf6mpW9UWy+diS6X7h1
yHUJog2pQVophHC1iFrkc2SQWwFErDA3DDEZxzjCnQxe4VilkoTalpumE/qNPYilrSSK2c9O
GcAKTgnducbhllyxHpPpFLTdQ1SKGtZYLuDBK95+FBJwu1+AMY44GRjHrVx6bba7ZWP3DqRc
Ku91jq5LZYhT+h8cHyfu+AQSGWSAmxbY8vPIHzUrZ0rpY3nMALIa1rD15KsWnafNdqOTtMTE
hUJzvYngliWbcTk8kn8cDU7sjzV6ejWprELDcJRFsXP9JMFuQdueSQP5snmPTJEsOzS1kdu1
3hrlJX5ye7cTkkDJxnxgg+tDpVWKtW2RLhS3w2cjB5Jwc8nOTkndz5w7FMyFzgGi7lDY6JxM
hzcly2rOm0J3g0XVJrGC3UsTwu8rAkjxISc7icKMDdwDkls3a1SfWY4LE1eeh02J+mMjbuwt
w5wp+5c8bft5Y4Zotdb1P6fdNFWeaNWxJMhVFHPOMsCSCSSSdowxLZBHrz33HqaihZCyCSZn
6bllyQzYyG8bTheMgYwMAFQIfQtlUt8LQdUGAGeUvewcDwTmxrsdmrXksslqNJkaNt6rwSUJ
3HZjguQ2QQy54wyxNIdevfxiLT61L68FRI1yUNEE4bCydrd5wy/HcSu0EH141HYmqtvrSyQt
wQUbB4IYf7EA/wBQD+PW99q6tqGoywNBHXjdXELMWZsceRGmD4CgLnHB/lQdOltLZQiBJz+a
JqejYyMkC49Ft7311uo0FzS600S5KfT2t824YwVDRqAcs3O5SN3GS2JM9avatpyM0Wk27Uce
B0ZXj3r+MFWZmx+CCR5LHj1qI4LyypKl9XkJw0BgCQleMBduXBzgbiXUB2G0k7Sum1OtFI8V
k/QsCcJYxHkeQQ+SrcEHKscZGT+fOtqRGKQtw4h2ILZBNAHABw36o6jf9tappEL6w1LT9UWP
aJLQWOzAcZ3Rs43DBYkOMdwOPn1b7f1z25Vo2LlSKSxbiLxWLcNeSUkg52NZYFcDCjLSFAoX
vKgN6ntjVtN08WejBP03KtinQllU/GcxIVz8efj1VFe9v3NFFiXTnltQRHbam0uUmLOZATKU
wv3bslvnJY/d6hHMFpa/Dlaxy/6WlopcVCJA21gksGrWfcGoXJDQs6ZAsh6ayZR5RnjdjkeO
QDnJ4I49OKFaKLZHBFHHHGOFjQAD5xwMDk5PHP4J4K4atpoBX6+BnY4VVlDOx5ACqMsxPxgc
5P5ALKCG7fqSdz1YX716blJJVwOGO0mNTnGQN+HB7PtkcpoZJHhrW4Qs3GXOvI/qh2fJC6xc
nr+5NLFaq11pIZK8oXBMCSPFh24OQdjYyQGwfIyZDqkv0sl6JnZI4rDzxs7clHzISST9u5pA
DwOG5zk+h4dJ+hhkb+J2ot5aSwxdXDH5YmUORjCgZJICjycn1mb9y1FdsWJ7peALghYSsm2P
lScEDcD1Tjjk/wApXMO3oNndGACLpV8wrSYo3dUC2+91otZ1PT4qVgSK9goGcJEWB3Jlx3jk
cr5X5B+AxAXt+XWXFi09Yf3rptLXuuI5I5clDykY46YjO0p/N5wWV8Y3uipFIERGdA+GkQcY
GOVGQfgYHHjPBCdLX+375knhjSQYONjgjaVyTtGcDaMNjgFTnAALpHRrtluLbuFgisgdQwEs
14+aZSLFcQoY7UDo27pSgq6jgZjZGIYdyjtY43gE93cF/wAV6t7fsCitCe3W2Z69eMsVByOF
wADkeM45yB8etFZhg1JTXs1hLGCG8ZIOSAQRyG5OCO7k45yHST19RilKQanXljH2vNX3ufyc
qwXPnwP9/uOAraSOKQh+nej007XgTRkgKge59UvzhWmqiwVOYTcaOTgZ+wxgjjJ8f+mPQuq/
xilp0ksBjsyDbH0YqzK7LuAIXJPIBzyrfPBHoqenqVmExTWaEsbYBVqLMD8jzIc+R/8Ax5EO
hXgpNbUIapbhFgruIwOeBGZTHg5+V/mJ84JXYKVubSPNGwxOOJxvzv7qUYblmnFPY06cyyor
t1tVmgYZA4KRRlRjx+cYzg5HqejTp8YCmzdtzOQMP1ni4/pEoU8558/uRj1PRPqGbiLd6+dI
zdZXVNQ0GTU449Tt6a0SOxkW1Im1WAOSQx4Pj9+Mfn0TFP7WTXbiprkENXoqE6WtPFGMfaqh
ZRwCWAUcAAYC8bxtD9raHpBs6vZuNQhsMFQi8ayh+ThSrJ+4CknwR8eiXGnUNWnu2l1+DTpY
VCWpblqMHY3cGJkDrje2BIBuJwoz96jejN8Bf3W8uKs7HhDaclujs8+KEmqxtNJ9HqFkRMzM
rrMJS6EkghpA2c/tjJ/PHo6rpkn04afUblqKQkNCyxBJQT/yIGI5/IzuPGGAkB1r+zHRrko1
Kks8yOxlk/vLOZixzkkklgRz5B88kn1RV0o0LKCtqup14BGFWv11eNVGMBRIrADhuf8AmI8E
gs0NVTseOtnxGai1EQpnOjkNi7Qkad6Y6zWmejFXqxAojKpEY+zjC4C4/bHjHbjb9y+a+4dI
ls2IpoWCSONhVl24wrEZIAx9hXuAAK4GNrJFvoKuq6poUldtUVpDGa1pbFbdIj4Ktt2FMKch
lBUthvklQRYvbtPT9RpaSse+rB1JVmjCmWJ2K4MhAyAQSAy/BHjZvG/odqsJBZuStE36MFrz
f5vXlX8NtiZIDWkWVgSFddnAyGPOAACDn4GD623tzRbVKKRCzSvuzsjUkR84Jzwckhfkfb5D
KWi0VrQpqw3woHTOAqqMjgY8Y/AHBAyowVAUxXUvaMD6zW1E2pob0CbYzW27f8uCXU7mw2Mh
QANoCrgKa20drudFY2ARvro524Wu1T2W2lQI9lW3yMEEcMbSszH+UBV3HgfAycHggY9K7mr1
nkjPTu7envDPp84xnkHJTPyPz8nJOSy8LJazfsandk0/aBArbEZlI2hv01VlLZ7VU7gHYcmR
lNM+iLr0U1evU1izuCtIWmkTDbs5PWYKcn8ZPH+p872jVxVEmJ2nzVcU1K2JgiuXE9mgWg9r
e44pknhp0J7sxBkda9qqzbeBuYdYHzjn/T8erdO1ewug3RNpt/YzSE2EEUnkdpKpIznd92QD
92SSMyEI2IqGnV9DPtpLkUBTcuqyREK4AVdqxrIN2DkjgjcB3F1BXaK+k1oHrah7ejrdcKYr
umDe671A2hkxL52rlQQRIuS28M0c08WFxDMj2Zk8s/Za2npHspDGB+1cmr19xQR23GAcClMc
g5GMBfHPjGPjk8emy67pk8v08eqU5XZsBRYRySTjAAY5OcjjPk+d25s/pel6bpF67FTsyySW
f1JYpsiUDnlkbDrwx+4chlOTkE6TrQWqskFoZR0Kvl8bwcg5I5zyefznHJIZ2gmhppcgbcVj
5IowHUwJulmrapLFB0EHSnJKyjPAGOMHgFSATnIOFP24Yx4XX4L1qq0MSKoyoYGQKTyQQQQM
AbV/H2nI7NseyXSa2p6rHDfnsz3dIts0MxG0yhunKNw24IHURDtyBlfAdMnWtCrylXgAi/Ch
SVI+MDI8YUcY7QMYKoR6BQ1wycNyXZJDs+zC2x10y8V4g1ecTNGYpTKpOV29w2gk8HnjB/pg
+vQfa0t1YvpYtNs2pqyBd7lAiP2cE7gCVBA25DZRc4wOmZqntiWzVeGfMcMkkMTMrAllMqLh
cf6HkY4HaO1Yn2m1qntzRdRrV45BV0x3LhyC8wCLJu5AGSHVec4wB+AWtrbY6QAOyT81UJ4b
RDET4ImS1rMMZP0mnEMexTdkyxwPgw5Pk+fPHwe9e0+rs7NJTp7j9xNxyR88jpfsf9v3Gbbe
o3rTla+nCKMAjM8yjJ55BjMmfk4Jxz/Nkko7ekSXtXjvz06kjIhUIbBKYP5Ux+e7/cevNKmd
s0xMlrc/6hdJFD/tkgAcf6i59Xt15DFJFQ6wxmJbTvIM4P2LEWbg54B8H18r6nqtl8jR44Yc
ds8llgG58bSm4Ec+QPGec83QpaiQQQ0ascYG7YkxAH54Cf8A98ehtXSzc0yavajqxwMVLN9Y
UIweBkoTkkAZP7D0sMBOEMFu2/8AVyKgSENDNd9/6jmg1ydi9eWlCvzGYTLtP/eLKT/5R/r5
M9I47hoQxVrVqvGEReiXgNkPHgYZWXp9vngjPGckEep6MI3DIEW5BMBzm5WCZx6ja0++ssJk
hulMF7ANmwyEj+RG7UJH5wG8AcH0dU1u2088dm3ayy7ZeqgtoVxwJa6YKjBIXpEZzl9wz6zN
BdZl1S1UfTWeirtuj0udSHKkq26U8lydgI3ox3KdrbvRVS31khElGpDHudIUr4ZlI5YwsmVn
XnuC8jGCGJG4z6YC7gLpxglhIMZvwT1NPh0pInrTPp5kkV4YqVqQVpsgbDGwAjmcjjaU3NsB
2uAeqfPBJZiaeteNyQBZJYZ4FE+wkBirR4UhVIOAjMcjBIZfWRl1jUtGeKehYqPos8uzVTLB
1IyGIXMkQIJcBiWwQzeGACgenYIp3Kb0onpxXKy2IqqLI30sqvtljL8gEO4UKAMEEBcsUlXm
hLmh3b8t2hWWCHaUWGUZnyXU+/Trcd5ZBIjRqpZGyroTlHBOQUGXJ+MMSTwB6Ka1HHqUNstL
05wlWYIS3BJMLY5bIZinaOeruOcYdjbi6ftXWKcUMM01GeWOKJsCPDMJIkHjtWOVExwBjA4A
Jy2iSS6p7fiGoI26VGimDsQW8ocn4YjOf3J/OPQaapfH1hoDbmDoVnamnNI5rL4mnJa/au5s
Y24BBHx/758g8Z8g8jG9PqNtLbjTqxxX2qbLqMHHBWM5/wA2W3ee3cMYcsRotRkbQZLdqSSZ
IZLG9gBl1jZuRxt3YBPPGSfA8qYrlvSrsMUteOajXg+o1B4/v3EuzYGRncQeCMDI8eqM9TPN
fPPclmU4iB6IAFaCjTW/YexbzHp1XywQEvLnAAx5Knj5BZsDuQ7abfuuO1FJQ0yLfHHuIgq9
+5QcbGblASc8E8luN4wJb/dFKen7OpUjIsl1KjoxiJJkmKYZl5BLO7+cAsX+S2x8FVht0mSS
rWgtW3VIoqVnaqSZDu+eQSqoi5XKZ6y53KwV0KanZOek1Gdu79rbbOoaejpTMTmtCsf1Wivc
vmEPl0WeVEekj5wCFdt0zqXIy2IwSzdzg7+INUpWbeLtrTtPudyyWmxHBfIVmJlXGIpuSC3d
5ZWUhkVq9Olt3o9Okmedra1kmSOIRGUIQBmFM9KBCcLnaN3gru2777teVFcyCxAI1ClVjkd4
wGBUbhzNGHZSHXEiFl3YLFjTETrX3BS37QkM5eD3LWU9Qqai7aHrtISPGe2O9HyG5AOGyDyS
okBYHBG8nDSLdT0Ozo0nUqS2JItwOyWUuJAABgl87TjcAQQCSoPHHpLoNu9cLUtarxtTrsW0
6WvgyiNwV/TKHEifbmLZtIYADiOM6ShrcmnVYaeuOtyicxnUihQqA21RMp8YOQxJBRuGUDDm
NPTywvxQ5gajt5I08MdcwOjNnD5ms+io2tLPUIWSWFHjwdoYowWVWBzjeGRSCGI25IJVfWlp
W4NSRJYkkXLlWRx4Ibaw8nnII4J5/JIMiX3fpU2hatpV2iP7pYnkismVwFiJG44yflVYnz9g
/wAxDcqdmq9IIoWxEzOpIGWQqB84JIfBPk7V/By7TVxDWPadfZZ2oiwuEE7czv5Jpclxe0hS
ykiV5nDDC7FjZS27wBmSPAG77sgMMFkcswm0a1HkFbGoyJKfDSg2DH3ZOc7O0EngfIJye9Qu
Tf8AEBjjQyXY9NaaurcAl3O7ec/JVDntyGY/OSHoqXWrU47yBZqyOZSrBt0jZAbcCcsUJZvz
vyfIPpiqq3vjxvK4cI6aIlotZN7VgrESo6krFUjj3Beo7EKq/gZJUZ8eOfSi1qTxI7S3IYkU
HrLXhedohyMlhkKcZ8gAfjj1q6NcC9UedwkNdHv2GZu0IvagcHhcsxkDH/5GRnBK+cvDqtnU
KFX+HNYpiSGKzDNI6K1hgXP6YLFhl1c9h+zAAHHqdRQNm6zxnquaXZocxss2p7f6mX1n92hb
UFuiSUHYZ546ioSecjcrHGRk7SfkDkevqWCoV6FKhHaZXWCzHHJOk8gQkoJCirkjIJ3seCMH
J9MKQirIzab/AAtUkAWUUtOluxK68YMsRAY5YHBUHH5BBkC17WL8GnXQJr889Vo5a63Io96P
EUMhLxdrKyTxnyT3SZxnL12U1swFQZCxpLWj56LR+1NP/immTPTlVIYrDIvAxtIDpj9gjoMf
GMfHqes/U9ue69U0PSbGhaoNJRaogsw/VSKZJo3aMuTGhDZVEGc8AAeAD6npB4jxHrhNDZYc
LplGtWdKM2oFn01693U2jl3lMNKkqGVCGDFVmPB3ctkBsgyc6pZux0nk1smaP6ZbVuGWun0a
puXMccmSesMgqWZgxfgYcbgdK1+hapwVY45rK6ZGI0sUkYSQqRgJIBkSZwSdoZGbBZQM7jBN
DSdJIKtOuWTZVuRybwFYH/o8JBAZsnIUnOVyZSWD0i4DVDNsr5JZYhsVn1Cmyyy2dk0QdnLt
vBEsQVjksdsufJyUBH2gtdh4ptOFdYXoLfsVYmjWNUhM0a2OnGoBJBLBVxu+1xhxKsaiz6nB
Wv1oWkDy2JW6SEvYbeRtw7qWMkmCBtHAyRn7SdPp2iSyVZNLZJIpGkrq0TRq4rqh/UZ3wYjJ
JE3T2jcWVkyNhICckgYHF2h+X7kbZ7nNqCWjJPKczFdbilIaSxFDcDRY2bXhEYAO4jOYHPGR
gqcnOBlNKiWCxqJVywNosWbH3MqNz+wLH98fB5Hp2ZLWjy6zHqE8dkVtKqoLO47pEDzje4Iz
u85wTkrkYLbVyugWBb9waneqF5qtlkUPtI29NE4P5z1Tj/uE8+p0cd5X4fts23gEHaYLphwH
ujrGP+A9Sc7jta6N27PPUmx8nH/2yeBnL1yx/XvYVmcRWrMVEPjuSIuEfAI4IZpOTnnzn0VY
7/7MyzA7m0oMxI7mdkDMx48kuSSRkljz3ZkWvqFbRjpGnWZUbUOrUlCqCeoVlUs+7GCSVJz8
/uT6oTtIAw9qUkaS5uEX6w8Frf7SOlHolUiNpJhdgWKFMZkJkDYVSrDcdpxkD5yTyrYKKtJV
ry6/PDW+ttw35EeI9QRCIwopXyN25ZO/ksGySc+tv760+azc0uxKXsU0t5MWzKQ5iYKx7jl2
fABKnkKFXJIkzt4V4NIr2rFoGGGGOSwoJnNS08zytuUZIjdmUK/IdUHdypKuzAI6ZoBvnn37
lpK4k0tgCUKJlpV7Yr4NGOZi9fqFQpzHWTeAV3f4c/YzlSv3Yzu9VaVqjFl063Kh6MkcUkcL
yKyu7FAYnBHTbYTmMcAAgAZcKx012sAhMRw2I2nRUJlLo5LEKpX9dC0mSna6lm2HMiq0r6aL
EhsaLXhWSJpOi9PmskpUgnqkfq+cARKO7arcBMaykliEBa5Z2Rruw23H2QViMdKDadwniDgs
O5RJMqQWAvO1mVnc7dpz5A7c6LT6K6zcrSSyKWt2J5ralMloYBHAI9xPO5guRjlZZBkZO/O2
NQp2dal0zTQJzTeGsa0auVjhrrIRIz/aqiWRFyMk7fndhnnsK2ldLVizIrS/SwvleNskjSPK
FBPBP6RbHH2+BgDObSvDG57NRp3/ANTlLKIZMZyFt6P/ALSrPUpaVSU7mmu7GK8lS8ckecY8
95I8eD49K4/1NYV1I/u9diyjJB6jDGP6bGz/AKcHnC/XNWjv63UW5IqrLYWODd4yrAlh8YB2
oGyPufjz6ZVlZ/cFgAFmerCV3KScl5Pxz4HwOP3A5RpoXRwNadQD5lTqqX6mZslrCxt3oTVF
A16OdQZI6sdOFl29rM5lQjPjgTq3HByPO7eWegUv4jK8bNIrNLNvk/6ziRgG5ByRgDnPjH7F
fqiKf+JN0ixneCsjZOwivEVbgE8Eg5GTnkEn7m/se4v/AA/9TWjWe2apaKIyCPrSgEsuTxks
v3H85/ckr8ToQQM8l2YmzSRsfpf2uvhvS3dN9wxXI1S/e3aZWdRtieMOKysBnIHXkkZvuZAw
DZymc/qMkrardemT9Sbdl4l2Z/WDfTQrtYEYYEk54JB5ABHpsukvDT0qWWWSzQryJGLKRhpf
0lKxsqHJV0fadpU8q6YLMRMlksUYbUGnrMbdiessquSV+uQMxMgbykgZXZg20htwJYgOGoi0
C7fg0VjaDCxjS0XAV08un1f17FWKfShI0Ea2LO6KCKEJFhIzuUvkyuACXZd3LE8rp6QsTRUa
rRw7oV08zlsJM4M1feCMkqW6BOB2jp+cBi6WSSzI0kz2p2ziVooBFJKwH8yuQIptp/xBt3qx
AAbZuDvTJVjs3rI6QqR7laEPLHUmkkUpJLI3Mn6nTY4VmIzlXBLGk+qLmhgU6NpL7E6+i+Vb
6SqfrZkEhSKXDV1J3SwpNIf+jyYzJLI2MgDOAoGPU9Yta0NyNHWGaeNF6UUi19u5F4UlVUgE
jBPJ5J9T0o6NpK9Bh2a3o23O5afRa8A9rabqQhj+vksEva2jqsTZhU5fychmB58MR8+meoIl
axrbwKsTJpscymMbSrvuDsMeGbAyfJwM+p6nr7NqvPJdEb7fq17H9p3Rngiliq6cZa6OgZYX
EqgMgP2kD5HrSeyu/SllbukeCBnc8li0ETkk/JLu7H93Y+SfU9T1L2r+DuVnZP4m8km1R2b3
JrVZmJgkmjLxE9rEwRA5Hg8ekfs6ONNLZFRVUNG+0DA3GODJ/qfz6nqev1P+B3/H0Ck1Or+a
ZWOP7PWQcKuiZAHgHoQHP+7uf/EfyfSX3BFG3uPTXMalwwwxHI/Wh/8A9N/ufz6nqeqL/uHf
6If/ALletzVq96vLWtwRWK7HuimQOpwMjIPHkA/1HrzT2UP4x7a0X+Kf37rajZjl+q/V3qYn
cq27ORvVWwflQfI9T1PUjY/4v+RWmb+D5wWa9uO1j2JdaZjI0JnaIucmMpGuwrnwVycY8Z49
aamBqv8AaXqGn6j/AHyklKnKtex+pGrlqwLBWyMnqyc/9o3+Y5nqer7fvKhx/kPNBaxp1Kl7
h9wx1KdeCNfaRlCxRKoD7k7sAef38+mEXbd1NBwv1CDA8YMKE+p6npPaX4T3eqn7U/CPm9Ua
dBFZ0+rPPEksyKsiySKGZWLAlgT8k859ONERX1K+GUMDejyCM5/Tg9T1PQW/j8fVcRfjQ3TS
S7qiuisstiISAjIfdWg3Z/OcnP5yfQ+hqsVqzDGoSKOSIIijCrmME4Hxzz/X1PU9cVv4j3ey
+VX428x6J1p0jye9lqSOzVrOi9WeFjlJX6ipuZfDNtAXJ5wMePSn25pOm39T9yTXNPqWJV06
hKrzQq7B3gcuwJHliASfJI59T1PRqL7TyWig/wDBWa1a1Yh9uQWIp5UmbTu6RXIY/rQ+T5/n
f/zH8n0v91Oy+49M0wMRQMbyGqD+kXAcBtnjPJ5x6nqemYfvaktnflakqTSoXRZXVVYhQGIA
H4Hqep6nrh33Feot+0L/2Q==
--------------7667451E2A8A--


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 02:50:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA12552; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 02:08:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 02:08:44 -0800
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970323020902.00dae868 mail.localaccess.com>
X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 02:09:06 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Epitaxy <epitaxy LocalAccess.com>
Subject: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Resent-Message-ID: <"MvZt61.0.243.h4GDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5227
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



Greg Watson's pictures of the insides of the bifilar coil, are just what I
have expected.


Please notice the blue spots (low H field) exactly in the middle between
each 4 wires.

If this space where the H field cancels out (blue) was occupied by a
Bismuth wire, I would expect an observable weight reduction.


I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the bismuth
sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
observed a 15% weight reduction.  I went to great lengths to eliminate the
magnetic interaction error from the vertical weight measurements of the
bismuth sheet, still the effect remained.

By the same token, if you wound your bifilar coil with a bismuth wire
inter-woven with the copper wires (in the blue null zones)  I would expect
to observe weight loss when this coil was energized.

Bismuth is quite available, but I never seen it in a wire form. How about
liquid Bismuth chemical compound (a salt of some sort perhaps) that fills
the voids between the copper wires in a sealed bifilar coil.


Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
properties ?


DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???






At 07:40 PM 3/23/97 +0930, you wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>
>As a follow-up on the bifilar internal field discussion, attached is a 3
>x 3 wire matrix.  Clearly shown is the internal field matrix.
>
>Bifilar coils do have internal magnetic fields, but like the fields of
>the unaligned domains in a ferrite, the total of their fields sums to
>zero.
>
>I have sent a much bigger 5 x 5 Gif to the DNMEC Gif list.
>
>-- 
>Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
>Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
>                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile
>
>Attachment Converted: "T:\INCOMING\bifilar9a2.jpg"
>Attachment Converted: "T:\INCOMING\bifilar362.jpg"
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 04:22:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA19127; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:01:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:01:14 -0800
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970323040150.00dbeecc mail.localaccess.com>
X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:01:51 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Epitaxy <epitaxy LocalAccess.com>
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Resent-Message-ID: <"q3jVN.0.jg4.9kHDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5228
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Great, I can just see the recipe for a new antigravity device.

*** Bifilar coil soaked with Pepto Bismol(TM) ***

hee hee...


BTW:  I wonder what such a heavy metal is doing to people's health.  Heavy
metals are usually toxic (ie. Lead, which is lighter than Bismuth, by the way)


At 01:39 AM 3/23/97 -1000, you wrote:
>Epitaxy wrote:
>
>>Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
>>properties ?
>
>
>>DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???
>
>
>Yes. One's called "Pepto Bismol(TM)". It's quite diamagnetic, as well as
>having other useful properties.<g>
>
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 04:41:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA20853; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:29:49 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:29:49 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:29:43 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33442207.46837104 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970322013908.AAA16608 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970322013908.AAA16608 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"nT_WP.0.j55.u8IDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5230
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:39:10 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>With this  dipole effect a water molecule will swing in an electric
>field the same as a compass needle in a magnetic field. This also
>helps the microwave oven do it's job. This effect is used in industry
So this is in fact a forced vibration at the frequency of the applied
field, not a natural resonance. Given this, then why was 2.45 GHz chosen
above some other frequency?
[snip]

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 04:46:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA20123; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:21:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:21:37 -0800
Message-Id: <199703231221.NAA30354 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:06:00 CET
Subject: Bismuth
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"WpI6F.0.Lw4.G1IDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5229
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
>vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
>Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the 
>bismuth
>sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
>observed a 15% weight reduction.  I went to great lengths to eliminate the
>magnetic interaction error from the vertical weight measurements of the
>bismuth sheet, still the effect remained.

I have a few questions to this:

* What were the dimensions of the Bismuth sheet?
* What was the weight of the Bismuth sheet?
* What was the measurement uncertainty of the spring dynamometer?
* What were the dimensions of the Neodynium-Indium-Bor magnets?
* How did the measured weight change when the magnets were moved around?

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 04:52:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA21470; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:44:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:44:10 -0800
Message-ID: <33351A14.3D32 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:25:00 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com
CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
References: <3.0.32.19970323020841.00daf5a4 mail.localaccess.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"l9Xf33.0.OF5.OMIDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5231
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Epitaxy wrote:
> 
> Do you know if Bismuth chemical compounds retain their diamagnetic
> properties ?
> 
> DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE  ???

HI Epitaxy,

My handbook of Chemistry & Physics shows the following :

Bismuth		-280
 Bromide	-147
 Chloride	 -26
 Chromate	 154
 Floride	 -61
 Hydroxide	 -65
 Iodide		-200
 Nitrate	 -91
 Oxide		-110
 Phosphate	 -77
 Sulfate	-199
 Sulfide	-123

Hope this helps.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 05:16:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA22189; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 05:07:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 05:07:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: A couple of questions
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:06:27 +0000
Message-ID: <19970323130625.AAA20883 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"MtOBf.0.cQ5._hIDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5232
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:29 PM 3/23/97 +0000, Robin wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:39:10 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>>With this  dipole effect a water molecule will swing in an electric
>>field the same as a compass needle in a magnetic field. This also
>>helps the microwave oven do it's job. This effect is used in industry
>So this is in fact a forced vibration at the frequency of the applied
>field, not a natural resonance. Given this, then why was 2.45 GHz chosen
>above some other frequency?
>[snip}
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
>temperature.
>"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

1,Probably an engineering choice for magnetron power and oven size.
2,Frequency allocation considerations.
3,Just Because.  <G>
>
>

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 05:31:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA23179; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 05:23:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 05:23:03 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:22:27 +0000
Message-ID: <19970323132225.AAA24358 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Bq9bo1.0.5g5.swIDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5233
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Interesting the 54.4 ev, 122.7 ev, and 217 ev lines mentioned
are the He II, Li III, and close to Ti X lines that appear when 
an electron falls back to these energy levels.

The "powder catalyst" Lithium Hydride, Perhaps?

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 07:07:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA26734; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 06:57:54 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 06:57:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:57:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970323095707_-502941835 emout14.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
cc: kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp
Subject: CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"rb70i.0.dX6.lJKDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5234
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a message posted on March 21, Elliot Kennel said:

"Excess heat is not due to gammas, microwaves, infrared, optical phonons,
acoustic phonons, hard x-rays, soft x-rays, in-between x-rays, betas,
neutrons, ultrasound or any of that run-of-the-mill stuff. If it were, it
would blow the lid off of everyone's detectors.  It just hasn't been
observed."

Right.  XSH in CF cells is due to radiation in the extreme ultraviolet (EUV),
just as Mills has been telling us for the past several years.  Unfortunately,
the EUV is a tough region of the spectrum to work in.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 07:24:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA27571; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:14:44 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:14:44 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970323151240.0068cdd0 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:12:40 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"bI2fH1.0.jk6.YZKDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5235
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:57 AM 3/23/97 -0500, Tom Stolper wrote:
>In a message posted on March 21, Elliot Kennel said:
>
>"Excess heat is not due to gammas, microwaves, infrared, optical phonons,
>acoustic phonons, hard x-rays, soft x-rays, in-between x-rays, betas,
>neutrons, ultrasound or any of that run-of-the-mill stuff. If it were, it
>would blow the lid off of everyone's detectors.  It just hasn't been
>observed."
>
>Right.  XSH in CF cells is due to radiation in the extreme ultraviolet (EUV),
>just as Mills has been telling us for the past several years.  Unfortunately,
>the EUV is a tough region of the spectrum to work in.
>
>Tom Stolper



  It does not appear to be so.

  Such radiation would remove the energy.  Like the phonons, EM
radiation LEAVING FROM from a sample REMOVES energy.  It cannot be source,
because
if you draw a volume integral, the Poynting vector LEAVES that volume.

  Given that observed, previously anomalous, energy involved
in these reactions involving loaded metals is considerable,
and beyond the chemical range, nuclear reactions 
(fusion or fission) are usually considered to be the SOURCE
of the energy, and therefore what the XSH in CF cells is probably due to.

 Hope that helps.
  Mitchell Swartz





 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 10:06:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA07407; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:56:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:56:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530501af5b1c2665d2 [199.237.131.235]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 08:59:47 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"FZblh1.0.fp1.3xMDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5236
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 3:39 PM 3/22/97, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
>At 10:35 AM 3/22/97 -0900, you wrote:
>>At 8:05 AM 3/22/97, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>
>>>  Horace, it is not only conductivity that determines whether these
>>>machines work.
>>>  Actually the requirement involves the dielectric relaxation time
>>>which is the ratio of the real part of the complex permittivity
>>>(the dielectric constant * free space permittivity)to the
>>>electrical conductivity. There refs were posted previously here on this.
>>>
>>>  Best wishes.   Hope that helps.
>>>  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com(
>>
>>I'm not sure what "these machines" are.
>
>
>  These are magnetic diffusion and charge relaxation machines, Horace.
>
> ========================================================

Don't see how you got to talking about those when the discussion was about
the Kelvin water dropper.  8^)

>
>
>> My discussion was about the Lord
>>Kelvin water dropper.
>
>  as described in L.B. Loeb, Static Electrification, Springer, Berline, 60,
>(1958)
>and Continuum Electromechanics, volume 3, H. Woodson, J. Melcher, MIT Press
>(1966)
>
> ========================================================
>
>
>> This works by charge induction. Being mechanical, it,
>>in classical implementation, doesn't work fast enough to bring dielectric
>>relaxtion time into the picture at all in regards to performance. For all
>>practical purposes the drops are in eqilibrium long before falling.  Where
>>does dielectric relaxation come into play?
>
> Two places, Horace.
>
> As James Melcher states, "The charge must relax to the surface of the
>stream before it breaks up.  Once the drops are formed, however, the net
>charge on an individual drop is essentially conserved.  These conditions
>are satisfied here because the water has a relaxataion time that is much
>shorter than the time required for a drop to form,


Glad to see Melcher agrees with me (and Bill Beaty too, who did a much
nicer job of stating the point) that charge relaxation time in the water is
not a significant factor in the operation. If Melcher quantified his
statement, as I did, we could see how *much* more (several orders of
magnitude) he agrees with me.  8^)


Or maybe we are all agreed?  Or maybe all relaxed?  8^)


> whereas the air
>has a relaxation time that is much longer than the time required for a drop
>the container below."  page 390 (ref. above)
>
>  Hope that helps.
>  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 10:23:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA09147; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:13:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:13:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970323181104.006ee1cc world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:11:04 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Electro-Hydrodynamic (EHD) Water Drop Converter.
Resent-Message-ID: <"yng4Y1.0.pE2.sANDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5237
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 08:59 AM 3/23/97 -0900, Horace wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm not sure what "these machines" are.
>>>>
>>  These are magnetic diffusion and charge relaxation machines, Horace.
>>
>
>Don't see how you got to talking about those when the discussion was about
>the Kelvin water dropper.  8^)

   As was clearly said above, it is a charge relaxation machine, Horace.  

  ========================================



>>
>>> This works by charge induction. Being mechanical, it,
>>>in classical implementation, doesn't work fast enough to bring dielectric
>>>relaxtion time into the picture at all in regards to performance. For all
>>>practical purposes the drops are in eqilibrium long before falling.  Where
>>>does dielectric relaxation come into play?
>>
>> Two places, Horace.
>>
>> As James Melcher states, "The charge must relax to the surface of the
>>stream before it breaks up.  Once the drops are formed, however, the net
>>charge on an individual drop is essentially conserved.  These conditions
>>are satisfied here because the water has a relaxataion time that is much
>>shorter than the time required for a drop to form,
>
>
>Glad to see Melcher agrees with me (and Bill Beaty too, who did a much
>nicer job of stating the point) that charge relaxation time in the water is
>not a significant factor in the operation. If Melcher quantified his
>statement, as I did, we could see how *much* more (several orders of
>magnitude) he agrees with me.  8^)
>
>

  Interesting Parallax view, Horace.

  He actually doesn't agree with what you just posted.

Melcher states, "The charge must relax to the surface of the
stream before it breaks up."  So the relaxation time IS important and must
be faster than the drop formation time.  His second example
is a second example of why the relaxation time is critical.

  Good luck anyway.

  Hope that helps.
    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 11:09:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA18535; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:58:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:58:33 -0800
From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
Message-Id: <199703231858.KAA00356 shell.skylink.net>
Subject: Re: Charged particles in magnetic fields
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:58:22 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <333871d7.21966299 mail.netspace.net.au> from "Robin van Spaandonk" at Mar 23, 97 04:17:27 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Psofm3.0.SX4.OrNDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5238
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robin van Spaandonk writes: 
> When a charged particle enters a magnetic field it usually follows a
> helical path. It would "appear" that angular momentum has "come from
> nowhere". However the law of conservation on angular momentum teaches us
> that this is not possible. 

I don't think anyone has a good answer to this problem.
The Lorentz force does not obey Newton's third law 
(action and reaction). Luckily we have field theory
to take up the slack and balance the momentum. But 
unfortunately, since we have retained Maxwell's fields 
but done away with his aether, it's a bit difficult to
explain where the momentum actually is. This is not
to say that it would be a whole lot easier if we had 
some aether to put it in. 

A similar interesting problem is Feynman's electromagnetic 
carousel paradox (Volume II 17-6). A charged dielectric 
disk located perpendicular to the axis of a coil carrying a 
DC current, will begin to rotate if the current is interrupted in 
the coil. Where does the angular momentum come from? Feynman
offers no immediate explanation, except for a brief comment
later in the lectures -- to the effect that the momentum is 
contained somewhere and somehow in the (static) magnetic field
of the coil, interacting with the static (electric) field of
the charged dielectric disk. 

Mathematically it can be demonstrated that a crossed E and H 
field contains angular momentum. Still one might ask -- what 
exactly is it that is spinning? Is the spin contained locally, 
or should we accept the truth of the vector math, and believe that 
it goes out to infinity with the fields. If so, how do we bring it
back in so quickly from so far away? 

Also it's a curious thing that if the charged disk is 
a conductor rather than a dielectric, it will not spin, but
instead a current will be induced in the disk. In this case, 
are we moving some angular momentum from the coil to the disk 
or what? And what of the mass and momentum of the elctrons
making up the current. J may equal (sigma)(E), but not 
immediately. Maxwell's equations do not cover this. There 
are way more than a few things which are not covered. 

Regards,
Robert Stirniman  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:10:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05394; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:51:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:51:10 -0800
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 13:51:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony Rusi <windski eskimo.com>
To: Puthoff aol.com
cc: Multiple recipients of list <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: ZPE = ether? Any scientific evidence? 
In-Reply-To: <960514220002_535385820 emout13.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970323130403.27300B-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZUd1W1.0.CK1.CNQDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5239
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

I read your article in Ad Astra, Jan/Feb 1997, " Space Propulsion: Can
Empty Space Itself Provide A Solution?". In an attempt to verify anything
regarding the alleged "Philadelphia Experiment" I have obtained a copy of
"Tertium Organum" by P. D. Ouspensky (aka Ouspenskii). I got the first
english translation of 1920 and I am comparing it to the five later
editions. Ouspensky's book "A New Model of the Universe", 1940, had "time"
expressed as (-1*EXP1/2)tc, where t was local time, and c was the speed of
light. (It may have been c squared.) The latter book indicated there may
be 3 space dimensions and 3 time dimensions. Can this eternal time
equation and e=m(c*EXP2) be used to formulate an equation for the
equivalence of motion along the line of eternal time and matter/energy?
Apparently Spirit is everything, ether is an expression of it and matter
energy and time are facets of ether in one theory of everything.

You mention the Michelson-Morley experiment as a failure. Yet I have read
that a drift velocity of 400 m/sec was detected at sea level and a
velocity of around 11,000 m/sec was detected at altitude. There is a web
site called Another Orgone Laboratory that had info on this. Also Gerry
Vassilatos of Borderland Reasearch, also on the web, indicated that a
fellow named Sun Yak sp?, did drift velocity detection with rotating
platform and found evidence of a drift velocity.

Help!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:11:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA06952; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:01:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:01:06 -0800
Message-ID: <3335B5C7.46C7 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:29:19 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"2UJtI3.0.Yi1.VWQDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5240
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi All,

Here is some info on the Feynman electromagnetic carousel paradox.  Has
anyone any more info.  Does this tie into the Newman gyrotron theory?

---------------------

>From Richard Feynman's Lectures on Physics we learn that there is 
intrinsic field energy and momentum density associated with a static
electro-magnetic field configuration. When there is a change in the
magnetic field, this field energy and momentum can be directly 
converted into kinetic energy and mechanical momentum. Feynman 
illustrates this with an electromagnetic carousel paradox. In this
paradox, a dielectric disk (which is embedded with small charged spheres
along its circumference) rotates without any apparent "counter" torque
in the system. Before this rotation occurs, the dielectric disk is 
immersed in a static magnetic field. The subsequent rotation occurs as
a consequence to reducing the previously static magnetic field to zero.
The angular momentum and rotational kinetic energy comes directly from
the initial static magnetic field. 

"The Feynman Lectures on Physics" by Richard Feynman, R.B. Leighton, and 
M. Sands, Volume II p 17-6

---------------------

Enjoy.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:19:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA28832; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:07:59 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:07:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3335A98E.5A28 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:07:17 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
References: <3.0.32.19970323040150.00dbeecc mail.localaccess.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"zNoSv2.0.P27.xcQDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5241
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Epitaxy wrote:

> Great, I can just see the recipe for a new antigravity device.
>
> *** Bifilar coil soaked with Pepto Bismol(TM) ***
>
> hee hee...

Hey, you never know. Dry out the liquid or grind up the chewables, and
load epoxy or other resin up with the powder for a mildly diamagnetic
matrix. Then again, you'd probably be better off with just powdered
bismuth or fine filings, similarly mixed into a resin. Why not just wrap
the coil over a solid bismuth rod?

A chewable tablet does move away from a magnet while hanging from a
thread. I tried this with a with a tablet having a total weight of
1160mg, 262mg of which was bismuth subsalicylate in a pharmacy "house
brand" version. But a tablet sandwiched between two samarium cobalt
disks with their like poles facing each other weighs the same, to within
about a half of a percent (.005) error. However, the error based on the
262mg content works out to more like 2%, so maybe I missed it.<g> Then
again, a tablet hanging alone from a thread *did* weigh less when I
brought a magnet up under it (at last, a positive result!).<gg>

Now a superconductor, there's where you get your huge diamagnetism of
course. I've never tried a superconductor between the bucked poles of
two magnets or coils, nor near a bifilar coil. Only tried it with a
single magnet and coil, pulsing 120hz DC on the coils for some slight
momentary opposition. That might be something to try, wrap a bifilar
coil around a hollow form into which an SC pellet is inserted, perhaps
with sections of ferrite above and below. If there's anything to your
idea, it would probably show up then. I got nothing but null on the
Schnurer inspired versions by the way, within an accuracy of several
thousandths of a percent (.00008 or so) on a glass rod target mass. 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:49:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA01538; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:37:07 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:37:07 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3335BE36.29AD microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:05:18 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Patent 5,142,861 Nonlinear electromagnetic propulsion system and method
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"T6S4h.0.xN.F2RDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5243
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi All,

Thought all you defenders of existing physics would find this
interesting.

Patent talks about 100kw producing 100lbs of thrust.  This is not a
reaction drive.  Electricity is the ONLY fuel.  It functions because of
a nonlinear magnetic field.  Not too efficient yet, but still by
conventional physics, this can't be done.

Enjoy.
	
---------------------

5142861 :

Nonlinear electromagnetic propulsion system and method 


INVENTORS:

Schlicher; Rex L., Lorton, VA 22079-1204
Rinaldi; Steven M., E-401 APO New York, NY 09777-5000
Hall; David J., Pittsburgh, PA 15239
Ranon; Peter M., San Pedro, CA 90734
Davis; Charles E., Albuquerque, NM 87112

 
ABSTRACT:

An electromagnetic propulsion system based on an extremely low frequency
(elf) radiating antenna structure driven by a matched high current
pulsed power supply is described. The  elf antenna structure resembles a
modified three dimensional multiple-turn loop antenna whose geometry is
optimized for the production of reaction thrust rather than the
radiation of electromagnetic energy into space. The antenna structure is
current driven rather than voltage drive. Rigid three dimensional
geometric asymmetry, made up of flat electrical conductors that form a
partially closed volume in the loop antenna structure, trap magnetic
flux thereby causing a magnetic field density gradient along a single
axis. This magnetic field density gradient then causes an imbalance in
the magneto- mechanical forces that normally result from the
interactions of the loop antenna's internal magnetic field with the
current in the conductors of the loop antenna structure, as described by
the Lorentz Force Law. The pulsed power supply is designed to provide
the proper waveform to the antenna structure at an impedance matching
the load impedance of the antenna. The rise time and shape of the input
current waveform is crucial to maximizing the production of reaction
thrust. Input voltage is at a nominal value sufficient to allow the
desired high input current. 


CLAIMS:

1. A nonlinear electromagnetic propulsion system, comprising antenna
means driven by current pulse generating means coupled to a prime power
source, with transmission line means coupling the current pulse
generating means to the antenna means; wherein the current pulse
generating means includes means for providing a sawtooth wave having a
relatively steep leading edge compared to the trailing edge; wherein the
antenna means comprises a three dimensional laminated geometry having an
extremely low frequency (elf) radiating antenna structure in the form of
a three dimensional asymmetric multiple-turn loop antenna whose geometry
is optimized for the production of reaction thrust rather than the
radiation of electromagnetic energy into space, with rigid three
dimensional geometric asymmetry, made up of flat electrical conductors
that form a partially closed volume in the loop antenna structure, which
trap magnetic flux thereby causing a magnetic field density gradient
along a single axis, wherein the magnetic field density gradient causes
an imbalance in the magneto-mechanical forces that normally result from
the interactions of the loop antenna's internal magnetic field with the
current in the conductors of the loop antenna structure, as described by
the Lorentz Force Law; wherein the antenna means includes a plurality of
return bundles and a center return conductor. 

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 14:57:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA10334; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:33:01 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:33:01 -0800
Message-ID: <3335AF79.56F3 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:32:34 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Charged particles in magnetic fields
References: <199703231858.KAA00356 shell.skylink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"SqHqq2.0.KX2.T-QDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5242
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert Stirniman wrote:

> Mathematically it can be demonstrated that a crossed E and H 
> field contains angular momentum. Still one might ask -- what 
> exactly is it that is spinning?

Was I the only one on this list who read those lines and thought
"gyroscopic particles" - ... and then cringed? 8)

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 15:01:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA03514; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:50:48 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:50:48 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130503af5b71dcd6e0 [153.34.202.187]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:52:50 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
Resent-Message-ID: <"r_I7a3.0.os.6FRDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5244
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Hi All,
>
>Here is some info on the Feynman electromagnetic carousel paradox.  Has
>anyone any more info.  Does this tie into the Newman gyrotron theory?
>
>---------------------
>
>>From Richard Feynman's Lectures on Physics we learn that there is
>intrinsic field energy and momentum density associated with a static
>electro-magnetic field configuration. When there is a change in the
>magnetic field, this field energy and momentum can be directly
>converted into kinetic energy and mechanical momentum. Feynman
>illustrates this with an electromagnetic carousel paradox. In this
>paradox, a dielectric disk (which is embedded with small charged spheres
>along its circumference) rotates without any apparent "counter" torque
>in the system. Before this rotation occurs, the dielectric disk is
>immersed in a static magnetic field. The subsequent rotation occurs as
>a consequence to reducing the previously static magnetic field to zero.
>The angular momentum and rotational kinetic energy comes directly from
>the initial static magnetic field.
>
>"The Feynman Lectures on Physics" by Richard Feynman, R.B. Leighton, and
>M. Sands, Volume II p 17-6
>
>---------------------
>
>Enjoy.
>
>--
>Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
>Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
>                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

And another post re Feynman --

While reading my Commemorative Issue of The Feynman Lectures on Physics by
Feynman, Leighton, and Sands, published by the Addison Wesley Publishing
Company, I encountered a passage on relativistic momentum considerations by
Richard Feynman that sounded so similar to what Joseph Newman said in his
Energy Machine book, that I wanted to share it.  Here's the operant
quotation from page 10-9 of Volume I:

"One of the propositions of Newton was that interactions at a distance are
instantaneous.  It turns out that such is not the case; in situations
involving electrical forces, for instance, if an electrical charge at one
location is suddenly moved, the effects on another charge, at another
place, do not appear instantaneously -- there is a little delay . . . . It
takes time for the influence to cross the intervening distance, which is
does at 186,000 miles a second.  In that tiny time the momentum of the
particles is not conserved.  Of course, after the second charge has felt
the effect of the first one and all is quieted down, the momentum equation
will check out all right, but during that small interval momentum is not
conserved.  We represent this by saying that during this interval there is
another kind of momentum besides that of the particle, mv, and that is
momentum in the electromagnetic field.  If we add the field momentum to the
momentum of the particle, then momentum is conserved at any moment all the
time.  The fact that the electromagnetic field can possess momentum and
energy MAKES THAT FIELD VERY REAL, and so, for better understanding, the
original idea that there are just the forces between particles has to be
modified to the idea that the particles make a field, and a field acts on
another particle, and THE FIELD ITSELF HAS SUCH FAMILIAR PROPERTIES AS
ENERGY CONTENT AND MOMENTUM, JUST AS PARTICLES CAN HAVE." [Emphasis added.]

>From the First Edition of The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman, page 20, I
>quote:

"The FACTS above clearly indicate that the magnetic field consists of
GYROSCOPIC TYPE PARTICLES which are the mechanical essence of E=mc(squared)
and represent an orderly flow of kinetic energy." [Emplhasis added.]

Note the similarity between the Feynman and Newman descriptions of the
electromagnetic field:  both say the field has energy content and momentum.
Feynman, however, pulls his punches by inserting the scientific
qualification, "just as particles can have" while Newman says directly the
field consists of particles in motion.  PARTICLES in motion, by definition,
have momentum, and the electromagnetic field, according to Nobel Laureate
Feynman, in a stretching of the very definition of momentum, has momentum.
Since no one has ever seen either an electric field nor gyroscopic
particles (nor will, presumably, they EVER, since seeing requires the
objects be larger than a wavelength of light, which they definitely are
not), both are legitimate ways of talking about a reality that we cannot
observe directly.  Feynman's way of talking used the concept of field in
the accepted scientific say, up until now.  Here's a later quote by Feynman
from the same page 10-9:

"To take another example --- an electromagnetic field has waves, which we
call light; it turns out that light also carries momentum with it, so when
light impinges on a object it carries in a certain amount of momentum per
second; this is equivalent to a force, because if the illuminated object is
picking up a certain amount of momentum per second, its momentum is
changing and the situation is exactly the same as if there were a force on
it.  Light can exert pressure by bombarding an object; this pressure is
very small, but with sufficiently delicate apparatus it is measurable."


If the momentum of the electromagnetic fields or particles of the sun's
rays can be used, as some scientists have proposed, to build a solar sail
to power future space ships throughout the solar system, perhaps the
momentum of the electromagnetic fields surrounding large coils of wire can
be used to provide an efficient source of electrical power throughout the
same solar system without the use of fossil or radioactive fuels.  This is
the promise of Joseph Newman's revolutionary energy machine and its
associated theory.

Robert Joseph Matherne
Nuclear Physicist
217 Timberlane Road
Gretna, Louisiana 70056



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 15:56:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA08513; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:47:16 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:47:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3335CEAD.1704 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:15:33 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Charged particles in magnetic fields
References: <199703231858.KAA00356 shell.skylink.net> <3335AF79.56F3@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"7Xd4X3.0.v42.-3SDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5245
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
> Robert Stirniman wrote:
> 
> > Mathematically it can be demonstrated that a crossed E and H
> > field contains angular momentum. Still one might ask -- what
> > exactly is it that is spinning?
> 
> Was I the only one on this list who read those lines and thought
> "gyroscopic particles" - ... and then cringed? 8)
> 
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI

Hi Rick,

Ditto.

What are your thoughts on the Feynman issue?

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 17:39:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA31315; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:04:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:04:32 -0800
Message-ID: <3335DFAB.4D13 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:28:03 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Magnetic Fields and Wires
References: <9703232131.AA18109 atom.om.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"nJe3Y.0.Af7.VCTDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5246
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

mindtech om.com.au wrote:
>
> Of course opposing fluxes happen all the time, the point is to control them.
> What do you think?
> 
> Peter

Hi Peter,

Of course magnetic fields exist in bifilar coils, just as magnetic
fields exist in all matter.  We can get at the natural fields in
ferromagnetic materials by causing the domains to align.  The only
drawback is the back emf induced by the external field created as the
domains align.

I am attempting to build a modified bifilar coil which will allow the
internal fields to be utilized.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 18:01:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA18897; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:49:03 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:49:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: hheffner corecom.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v01530503af5b212c93fe [199.237.131.232]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:52:22 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"kj6wY.0.Bd4.BsTDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5247
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 11:18 AM 3/22/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>
>Some simple arithmetic, Horace. Mo*gamma*c^2/r = k*q^2/r^2 and
>potential, V at any orbital radius,r then V = k*q/r
>
>Then r = k*q^2/Mo*gamma*c^2. Lets say Mo = Me/137^2 = 9.1E-31/137^2
>= 4.85E-35 kg. gamma = 137.
>Then r = 2.304E-28/{6.64E-33*9E16)= 3.86E-13 meters. Won't that do it?
>
>Try it with a regular electron and you get the Bohr results.  <g>
[snip]
>Regards,     Frederick


Hmmm ... yet another tea party. We pick mass and gamma willy nilly and away
we go through the looking glass ... oops, sorry, another story.

OK, let me see what I can calculate.

NEWTONIAN LOOK AT THE PROBLEM

The kinetic energy of the lepton in orbit radius r is given by:

(1)    K = q^2/((8Pi)(e0)(r)) = (1/2)(m)(v^2)

So velocity:

(2)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)(r)(m))^0.5

Given m1 = mass of light electron, m2 = mass of heavy, v1 velocity of
light, v2 velocity of heavy, at a given r this gives:

(3)    v1/v2 = (m2/m1)^0.5

The lighter the particle the faster the particle at a given r.  Similarly
the rotational frequency is proportional to (1/m)^0.5, while momentum and
angular momentum are proportional to (m)^0.5 at a given r, e.g.:

(4)    p = mv = ((m)(q^2)/(4(pi)e0(r))^0.5

Given that the radius is quantized to:

(5)    r = (n^2) ((h^2)(e0))/((pi)(q^2)(m)),  for n = 1,2,3, ...

For the Bohr radius (n=1) or any specific quantum state (n>1), using r1 for
light, r2 for heavy, the radius ratio is given by:

(6)    r1/r2 = m2/m1

So, the bigger the mass the smaller the radius and vice versa.

However, we can't just chose mass and velocity any old way.  Let's just
consider ground state for a moment. Substitute n=1 and (5) into (2):

(7)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)[(h^2)(e0)/((pi)(q^2)(m))](m))^0.5

Simplifying:

(8)    v^2 = ((q^2)(pi)(m)(q^2))/(4(pi)(e0)(m)(h^2)(e0))

(9)    v^2 = q^4/(4(h^2)(e0^2))

(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h))    (Hope I did that right! Note that mass cancels)

(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul

(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2

(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec

(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec))

(15)   v = 2.18x10^6 m/s


RELATIVISTIC CONSIDERATIONS

In the above formulations the velocities and masses are relativistic
(observed) quantities.  So, if we use the relativistic mass:

(16)  m1 = m0/(1-v^2/c^2)^0.5

Or in ground state:

(17)  m1 = m0 [1-(q^2/(2(e0)(h))/c)^2]^-0.5

(18)  m1 = m0 [1 - ((2.18x10^6 m/s)/(3X10^8 m/s))^2]^-0.5

(19)  m1 = m0 (.9999736)

Thus if if we have the hypothesized light of mass m0 = 4.85E-35 kg, we have
also:

(20)  m1 = 4.85E-35 kg = m2/135^2

So applying (5) we see that r is 135^2 times as big as the H radius.

It seems the existence of light electrons as you describe precludes quantum
mechanics. Did I make some mistakes here?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 19:54:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA16917; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:17:43 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:17:43 -0800
Date: 23 Mar 97 22:15:30 EST
From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com>
To: vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: More Popular CF
Message-ID: <970324031529_76016.2701_JHC171-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"5aro5.0.z74.K9VDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5248
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortices,

As the moon wanes behind the shadow of the Earth, CF enjoys more popular
exposure via the media.  Tonight's part 2 of 2 of the *X-Files* reveals the
plot, irrefutable evidence that UFO's exist  --  their power source.  Yes,
captured alien technology is purloined by a NICAP member and ferreted away to
Fox Mulder.  The thief is justified since he took the evidence from the Air
Force who had taken it from the aliens.  It can now be revealed that the power
which motivates UFO's is an o.u. device utilizing Cold Fusion.

Interesting thing was, the device was also dangerously radioactive.  Well, you
must allow for artistic license. <G>

Terry



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 20:07:30 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA01037; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:57:51 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:57:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:56:48 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324035645.AAA14776 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"OJrUm.0.7G.zkVDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5250
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:52 AM 3/24/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>At 11:18 AM 3/22/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>>
>>Some simple arithmetic, Horace. Mo*gamma*c^2/r = k*q^2/r^2 and
>>potential, V at any orbital radius,r then V = k*q/r
>>
>>Then r = k*q^2/Mo*gamma*c^2. Lets say Mo = Me/137^2 = 9.1E-31/137^2
>>= 4.85E-35 kg. gamma = 137.
>>Then r = 2.304E-28/{6.64E-33*9E16)= 3.86E-13 meters. Won't that do it?
>>
>>Try it with a regular electron and you get the Bohr results.  <g>
>[snip]
>>Regards,     Frederick
>
>
>Hmmm ... yet another tea party. We pick mass and gamma willy nilly and away
>we go through the looking glass ... oops, sorry, another story.

Not So. Mills is taking the ground state Bohr radius (Ro) = 5.3E-11 meters
and instead of the quantized orbits n^2*Ro he is using Ro/n^2 thus 
instead of the energy V = q/4(pi)*eo*R which is 27.2 ev at Ro, but,
the kinetic energy of the orbit is 27.2/2 = 13.6 ev ie., the ionization energy
of hydrogen. So instead of orbit #2, 13.6/4 ev = 3.4 ev
and orbit #3, 13.6/9 ev = 1.5 ev and so on
he gets 13.6*4 = 54.4 ev, 13.6*9 = 122.4 ev, 13.6*16 = 217.6 ev etc.,
as the orbits decrease in size, ie., V increases.

You can play the same game with the lights at relativistic energies
Me*v^2/R = q^2/4(pi)*eo*R^2 and V = q/4(pi)*eo*R for the regular electron
and Mo*gamma*v^2/R for the lights. you can use a shortcut to find gamma
the gamma is 2 at a voltage equal to the rest energy Eo in ev and v is 0.87c.

At a gamma of 7*Eo v is .99c, at gamma 70*Eo v is 99.99 c 
at 700*Eo v = 99.99 99 c  etc.


>
>OK, let me see what I can calculate.
>
>NEWTONIAN LOOK AT THE PROBLEM
>
>The kinetic energy of the lepton in orbit radius r is given by:
>
>(1)    K = q^2/((8Pi)(e0)(r)) = (1/2)(m)(v^2)
>
>So velocity:
>
>(2)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)(r)(m))^0.5
>
>Given m1 = mass of light electron, m2 = mass of heavy, v1 velocity of
>light, v2 velocity of heavy, at a given r this gives:
>
>(3)    v1/v2 = (m2/m1)^0.5
>
>The lighter the particle the faster the particle at a given r.  Similarly
>the rotational frequency is proportional to (1/m)^0.5, while momentum and
>angular momentum are proportional to (m)^0.5 at a given r, e.g.:
>
>(4)    p = mv = ((m)(q^2)/(4(pi)e0(r))^0.5
>
>Given that the radius is quantized to:
>
>(5)    r = (n^2) ((h^2)(e0))/((pi)(q^2)(m)),  for n = 1,2,3, ...
>
>For the Bohr radius (n=1) or any specific quantum state (n>1), using r1 for
>light, r2 for heavy, the radius ratio is given by:
>
>(6)    r1/r2 = m2/m1
>
>So, the bigger the mass the smaller the radius and vice versa.
>
>However, we can't just chose mass and velocity any old way.  Let's just
>consider ground state for a moment. Substitute n=1 and (5) into (2):
>
>(7)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)[(h^2)(e0)/((pi)(q^2)(m))](m))^0.5
>
>Simplifying:
>
>(8)    v^2 = ((q^2)(pi)(m)(q^2))/(4(pi)(e0)(m)(h^2)(e0))
>
>(9)    v^2 = q^4/(4(h^2)(e0^2))
>
>(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h))    (Hope I did that right! Note that mass cancels)
>
>(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul
>
>(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2
>
>(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec
>
>(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
>            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec))
>
>(15)   v = 2.18x10^6 m/s
>
>
>RELATIVISTIC CONSIDERATIONS
>
>In the above formulations the velocities and masses are relativistic
>(observed) quantities.  So, if we use the relativistic mass:
>
>(16)  m1 = m0/(1-v^2/c^2)^0.5
>
>Or in ground state:
>
>(17)  m1 = m0 [1-(q^2/(2(e0)(h))/c)^2]^-0.5
>
>(18)  m1 = m0 [1 - ((2.18x10^6 m/s)/(3X10^8 m/s))^2]^-0.5
>
>(19)  m1 = m0 (.9999736)
>
>Thus if if we have the hypothesized light of mass m0 = 4.85E-35 kg, we have
>also:
>
>(20)  m1 = 4.85E-35 kg = m2/135^2
>
>So applying (5) we see that r is 135^2 times as big as the H radius.
>
>It seems the existence of light electrons as you describe precludes quantum
>mechanics. Did I make some mistakes here?

I think so Horace, v = c{1 - 1/[(qV/Mo*c^2) + 1]^2)^1/2    :-)
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner 

Regards,     Frederick         
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 20:07:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA22388; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:56:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 19:56:49 -0800
Message-ID: <3335FB55.3146 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:56:07 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Charged particles in magnetic fields
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"4VExr2.0.iT5.0kVDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5249
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Greg -

 > What are your thoughts on the Feynman issue?

Hey, I'm only here for the dancing, ok? <g>

I have no idea how that works. Feynman must have known what he was
talking about, though. I not very clear if it was left off as a real
mystery or anomaly looking for a new particle, property, or a cause
other than what was given by the math. Sometimes very smart people let
math 'get away' with things that it really shouldn't. Math is a way of
describing and under certain circumstances predicting quantities
observed in the world, but I don't think it can be an independent cause
on its own for the things we observe. Some people do tend to blur that
distinction a bit, especially cosmologists - and of course politicians.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 21:55:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA07114; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:33:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:33:27 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CF in EUV
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:30:05 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3335f067.17974615 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970323095707_-502941835 emout14.mail.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <970323095707_-502941835 emout14.mail.aol.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ixonD3.0.4l1.a8XDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5251
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:57:08 -0500 (EST), Tstolper aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>Right.  XSH in CF cells is due to radiation in the extreme ultraviolet (EUV),
>just as Mills has been telling us for the past several years.  Unfortunately,
>the EUV is a tough region of the spectrum to work in.
>
>Tom Stolper
Might I point out that the "hardest" photo-electric x-rays that you can get
from the oxygen in water are about 500 eV. I believe this also qualifies as
EUV. Such photo-electric "x-rays" are to be expected from energetic heavy
ions being "stopped" in water.
Therefore the presence of such "x-rays" or "EUV" if you prefer, is not
necessarily a confirmation of Mills' theory.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 23 22:54:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA16351; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:32:15 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:32:15 -0800
Date:      Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:09:18 GMT
From: "Peter Glueck" <peter itim.org.soroscj.ro>
Message-ID: <33361a95.itim itim.org.soroscj.ro>
To: "vortex" <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Cc: "Peter Glueck" <peter itim.org.soroscj.ro>
Subject:   Blacklightpower.
Resent-Message-ID: <"6IyRc.0.K_3.l_XDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5252
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

         Dear Friends,
Once again Mike Carrell was our Gabriel archangel (Messenger of
Good News) ( according to the Catholic calender Gabriel's Day is
March 24!!) and has informed us about the great progress made by
Randy Mills group.
A very fine, promising, fully catalytic process with a very low 
nuclearity, a great victory for the New Energy field.
I dare to hope that those colleagues who had not read the Mills book
or haven't studied the theory part of the site, will avoid to
make highly speculative comments.
In this part of the world there are great problems with the
Internet and I was able to capture only the text part (with LYNX) 
but it is clear that it is about good work and a clever managerial 
strategy.
We hope that other, equally catalytic but more nuclear processes 
(CETI, E-QUEST, LABOFEX) will compete successfully with BLP.
Very adequate to celebrate the 8-th aniversary of what we thought
to be only genuine "Cold Fusion", but it is much  more.
All my best wishes,
Peter
-- 
dr. Peter Gluck

Institute of Isotopic and Molecular Technology         Fax:064-420042
Cluj-Napoca, str. Donath 65-103, P.O.Box 700           Tel:064-184037/144
Cluj 5, 3400 Romania                                  Home: 064-174976
E-mail: peter itim.org.soroscj.ro , peterg@oc1.itim-cj.ro 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:03:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA26730; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:55:34 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:55:34 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC37E5.38F96C40 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Cc: "'Bob Echols'" <echols maxwell.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: RE: Charged particles in magnetic fields
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:44:09 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"O-XN93.0.ZX6.qDZDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5253
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Rick Monteverde wrote:

>Robert Stirniman wrote:
>
>> Mathematically it can be demonstrated that a crossed E and H=20
>> field contains angular momentum. Still one might ask -- what=20
>> exactly is it that is spinning?
>
>Was I the only one on this list who read those lines and thought
>"gyroscopic particles" - ... and then cringed? 8)
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI


Well, yes. But no cringing except for anticipating a lengthy e-mail to =
read <g>. So what's a particle, anyway? Um, lets see now... a little =
bundle of energy? Gyroscopic particle -> spinning bundle of energy, =
maybe a spinning field? Now how could we make one of those? <g>

Dan Quickert

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:04:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA26803; Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:55:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:55:46 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC37E5.3C1A0D30 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>,
        "'freenrg-l eskimo.com'"
	 <freenrg-l eskimo.com>
Cc: "'Bob Echols'" <echols maxwell.UCSC.EDU>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:48:10 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"eM77W1.0.eY6._DZDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5254
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

(I sent this to Greg Watson yesterday, but forgot to copy the lists)

A bifilar coil could be represented as two separate coils wound the same =
direction over the same core, with the current in one coil going in =
opposite direction to the current in the other, right?

So when the coils are both energized, we detect no net field, but the =
fields are there. And if we remove current from both at once, we get no =
net energy out. But what happens when we de-energize just one of the =
coils? Suddenly there is a net field (from the coil still energized). =
Anything useful in that?

Also, seems like the coil's start-up characteristics would be different =
between two methods of applying current:
(1) use one current to go thru both coils; current has to traverse all =
of coil A before starting back the other way through coil B. Coil A's =
field is complete before coil B's field starts up and begins to "cancel" =
it.
(2) simultaneously apply oppositely-directed currents to both coils. =
Each coil is half-charged before they "meet" in the middle.
But then there are the induced currents from one coil to the other to =
take into account, also.

I wish I had a scope and a *really* long bifilar coil.

Has anybody already dealt with these issues?

In innocence and ignorance as usual,

Dan Quickert


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:24:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA14193; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:15:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:15:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703240815.JAA21744 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:04:00 CET
Subject: Ang.: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, monteverde@worldnet.att.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"7VTvk1.0.dT3.oWZDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5256
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



>A chewable tablet does move away from a magnet while hanging from a
>thread. I tried this with a with a tablet having a total weight of
>1160mg, 262mg of which was bismuth subsalicylate in a pharmacy "house
>brand" version. But a tablet sandwiched between two samarium cobalt
>disks with their like poles facing each other weighs the same, to within
>about a half of a percent (.005) error. However, the error based on the
>262mg content works out to more like 2%, so maybe I missed it.<g> Then
>again, a tablet hanging alone from a thread *did* weigh less when I
>brought a magnet up under it (at last, a positive result!).<gg>

Thanks to Rick Monteverde for performing this experiment to test an alle=
gation=20
of an antigravity effect from a "bucked" magnetic field on Bismuth.

Well done!

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 00:36:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA28874; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:13:28 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:13:28 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC37E7.B8B4F010 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Unidentified subject!
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:09:43 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC37E7.B8B676B0"
Resent-Message-ID: <"OBp7w1.0.437.cUZDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5255
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC37E7.B8B676B0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

So THAT's what the listserver does when you forget to type a subject line!
I'm learning more things here...

Should have been "Bifilar Coils". Sorryboutthat.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC37E7.B8B676B0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC37E7.B8B676B0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 02:47:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA04421; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:38:55 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 02:38:55 -0800
Message-ID: <3336598F.2888 lcia.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:38:07 -0500
From: HAMILTON lcia.com (DANNY HAMILTON)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: collapse??
References: <970322110640_1053302668 emout09.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"2P_SC.0._41.ycbDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5257
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:
> 
> I believe the R. Mills may be close to the truth in his collapsing model of
snip
> Where are the collapsed atoms?  If they are
> energitically favorable they should be everywhere.  The universe should be
> full of collapased atoms.  
snip

Frank 
  Maybe they turned back into aether. ;-)
Danny

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 03:48:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA21844; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC3804.9BC0F4F0 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:36:31 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC3804.9BC27B90"
Resent-Message-ID: <"s9mZY.0.DL5.ZWcDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5258
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3804.9BC27B90
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Epitaxy wrote:
 
 >I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
 >vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
 >Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the bismuth
 >sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
 >observed a 15% weight reduction.  I went to great lengths to eliminate the
 >magnetic interaction error from the vertical weight measurements of the
 >bismuth sheet, still the effect remained.

Wow! That's a rather dramatic result. Could you clarify the setup? it's not entirely clear to me. Was it

  magnet
  bismuth
  magnet

Or was it

M   b   M
a   i   a
g   s   g
n   m   n
e   u   e
t   t   t
    h


Thanks,

Dan Quickert
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3804.9BC27B90
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3804.9BC27B90--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 03:52:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA09086; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:44:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:44:27 -0800
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:44:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of Energy: True cost is people's time and expertise.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970322094725.15205A-100000 liszt.ph.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970324105439.16213A-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"4CM1l.0.uD2.RacDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5259
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 



On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Martin Sevior wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Remi Cornwall wrote:
> 
> > Vortexians,
> > 
> > For the love of humanity just remember this: you can harness, exploit or 
> > enslave nature but you can't do the same to humans.
> > 
> > Free energy: pay for brains behind it via patents, pay for engineers who 
> > develop it. Pay for guys who maintain it.
> > 
> > This fits in nicely with my politcal views (oh God! It's election time in
> > England) of small government, low taxes...
> > 
> 
> These brains have to be trained. Do you favour an entirely user-pays system
> of Education? The cost of an undergraduate Science or Engineering degree
> would be around 10k pounds within a factor of 2. A Ph.D. would cost at 
> least another 30k pounds. Those costs don't include staying alive during 
> full time study. Do you want to get the best and the brightest to remain 
> in higher education and research? Then ya gotta pay 'em.
> 
> Governments have a role in delivering Social Justice and the infrastructure
> required to do advanced research and development.
> 
> Martin Sevior
> 

I'm of the view that the people attracted to government are there because 
they'd rather not be in industry for reasons best known to them...

Government 'industry' balances its books when it get things wrong by 
increasing taxation. Real industry folds or gets taken over by a better 
bunch.

Government and the whole 'intellectual' clique surrounding them of 
statism (which is at least 2000 years old, but came to the fore in modern 
times in 17th C France) spends its time character assinating captalists 
as: 

short term,
anti-social (ie. they undercut others), 
gauche (no respect for art say),
uncharitable,
unable to co-ordinate massive projects

Their belief is that these gauche, lucky tinkers don't know how to spend
their money and those who attended oxbridge or ivy league universities do.
(they went there and found out they were no good amongst that brilliant
grouping but still have an inflated opinion of themselves). 

As regards to funding for education - I see nothing wrong with 
sponsorship and philantrophic donation. That is the true history of the 
oldest universities.

Many captalists also know more about art than the 'lovey sect' - witness, 
if you go to concerts, the sponsorship. (Weren't Beethoven and Mozart well 
looked after - I'm sure if Mozart had a good financial adviser he would 
have lived longer - but then its a developing subject with better more 
robust methods just like everything else)

Surely there comes a time in a person's life when they've accrued so much 
that they look to the future and its heirs (both biological and 
intellectual).

Case in point: Bill Gates, lots of bad press - great guy, great vision, I 
use his products every day and he has provided the standard for 
much of information exchange. He funds SETI (search for extra-terrestrial 
intelligence) and much more.

Now when you hear every statist speak and the anodyne promises they make 
- just ask where's the beef? - who supplies the money?


READ BETWEEN THE LINES: the statist believes he is a good person (heavy
mocking tone), redistributing wealth and all that, he wants his name
attached to major projects so that he goes down in history - BUT HE WANTS
YOU TO DO IT FOR HIM. 

This is PHSYCOLOGICAL ILLNESS dressed up as a moral and intellectual 
philosophy. 


(and if a spelt phsycological wrongly, so what. These types are only to
eager to display trivial knowledge. I'm constantly corrected by these 
types for not having read Dickens, Wilde, Satre et al - I read Engineering 
and Science texts and regard Speilberg as one of the greatest film makers 
- stuff art films unless there's nudity  (-: )


I wrote some months ago about my fear for freedom in the west. Well
there's a massive collaboration between all these people who know better
than us (wagging finger in a teacherly manner) and want to run our lives
for us. The states: you've got Washington; Europe, we've got Brussels. 

**********************************************************************
You will be told what to do, you will be told how much money you can 
keep, how long to work, WHAT TO THINK AND WHAT TO RESEARCH - if it ain't 
the estab. line you don't eat!
*********************************************************************

Just look at how they operate. Its a small world right (that's why I
believe that space research is so important) and people have to live
together, but we are now THOUGHT POLICED and rational debate about groups
is stiffled. Their aim is to control you by GUILT ('ridicule is a powerful
weapon') and to trip up your THOUGHT PROCESSES (a person unable to think
is on their knees). 

So these are mad ramblings by some youth with an attitude. We're all on 
Vortex because we passionate about things because we believe them to be 
correct. We operate by observation and logic - no one can tell me any 
different.

Remi.

'The Good Samaritan was also good because he had money'
Dame Thatcher.

This email comes from a university which with the blessing of my former 
supervisor, I use as a business base whilst helping out in the 
department, teaching and supervising students. I will remember their 
assistance, should I do well...

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 03:58:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA22669; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:50:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:50:27 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:49:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - waste heat problem
In-Reply-To: <970322034339_72240.1256_EHB136-1 CompuServe.COM>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970324114553.16213B-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"YlteY2.0.7Y5.0gcDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5260
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortex,

Waste heat problem. Look at doing work in constant entropy systems. I'm 
preparing a paper which I hope will get in IE12. Heat is not a dead end 
of energy transformation... Effectively by heat pumps you can return heat 
to a higher grade of energy.

Wouldn't cold fusion be better off in space or planets without much 
greenhouse effect?

Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 05:07:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA15391; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 04:58:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 04:58:44 -0800
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:58:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970324075803_-569819296 emout01.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Collapsed atoms and BlackLight Power
Resent-Message-ID: <"9inre.0.Om3.2gdDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5261
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Some questions are cropping up to the effect that if collapsed atoms are
energetically favorable they should be everywhere. 

Once again, friends, do your homework and read the ample materials at the
BlackLight homepage. The collapse of hydrogen is triggered by very specific
catalytic conditions, and yes, the universe is full of the stuff -- it is the
dark matter which cosmology says must be present but which has remained
undetected because it does not absorb or radiate electromagnetic energy. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 05:17:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA16047; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:05:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:05:35 -0800
Message-Id: <v02130500af5c388d5428 [153.34.200.125]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:07:41 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Cost of Energy: True cost is people's time and expertise.
Resent-Message-ID: <"szHx22.0.bw3.TmdDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5262
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Martin Sevior wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Remi Cornwall wrote:
>>
>> > Vortexians,
>> >
>> > For the love of humanity just remember this: you can harness, exploit or
>> > enslave nature but you can't do the same to humans.
>> >
>> > Free energy: pay for brains behind it via patents, pay for engineers who
>> > develop it. Pay for guys who maintain it.
>> >
>> > This fits in nicely with my politcal views (oh God! It's election time in
>> > England) of small government, low taxes...
>> >
>>
>> These brains have to be trained. Do you favour an entirely user-pays system
>> of Education? The cost of an undergraduate Science or Engineering degree
>> would be around 10k pounds within a factor of 2. A Ph.D. would cost at
>> least another 30k pounds. Those costs don't include staying alive during
>> full time study. Do you want to get the best and the brightest to remain
>> in higher education and research? Then ya gotta pay 'em.
>>
>> Governments have a role in delivering Social Justice and the infrastructure
>> required to do advanced research and development.
>>
>> Martin Sevior
>>
>
>I'm of the view that the people attracted to government are there because
>they'd rather not be in industry for reasons best known to them...
>
>Government 'industry' balances its books when it get things wrong by
>increasing taxation. Real industry folds or gets taken over by a better
>bunch.
>
>Government and the whole 'intellectual' clique surrounding them of
>statism (which is at least 2000 years old, but came to the fore in modern
>times in 17th C France) spends its time character assinating captalists
>as:
>
>short term,
>anti-social (ie. they undercut others),
>gauche (no respect for art say),
>uncharitable,
>unable to co-ordinate massive projects
>
>Their belief is that these gauche, lucky tinkers don't know how to spend
>their money and those who attended oxbridge or ivy league universities do.
>(they went there and found out they were no good amongst that brilliant
>grouping but still have an inflated opinion of themselves).
>
>As regards to funding for education - I see nothing wrong with
>sponsorship and philantrophic donation. That is the true history of the
>oldest universities.
>
>Many captalists also know more about art than the 'lovey sect' - witness,
>if you go to concerts, the sponsorship. (Weren't Beethoven and Mozart well
>looked after - I'm sure if Mozart had a good financial adviser he would
>have lived longer - but then its a developing subject with better more
>robust methods just like everything else)
>
>Surely there comes a time in a person's life when they've accrued so much
>that they look to the future and its heirs (both biological and
>intellectual).
>
>Case in point: Bill Gates, lots of bad press - great guy, great vision, I
>use his products every day and he has provided the standard for
>much of information exchange. He funds SETI (search for extra-terrestrial
>intelligence) and much more.
>
>Now when you hear every statist speak and the anodyne promises they make
>- just ask where's the beef? - who supplies the money?
>
>
>READ BETWEEN THE LINES: the statist believes he is a good person (heavy
>mocking tone), redistributing wealth and all that, he wants his name
>attached to major projects so that he goes down in history - BUT HE WANTS
>YOU TO DO IT FOR HIM.
>
>This is PHSYCOLOGICAL ILLNESS dressed up as a moral and intellectual
>philosophy.
>
>
>(and if a spelt phsycological wrongly, so what. These types are only to
>eager to display trivial knowledge. I'm constantly corrected by these
>types for not having read Dickens, Wilde, Satre et al - I read Engineering
>and Science texts and regard Speilberg as one of the greatest film makers
>- stuff art films unless there's nudity  (-: )
>
>
>I wrote some months ago about my fear for freedom in the west. Well
>there's a massive collaboration between all these people who know better
>than us (wagging finger in a teacherly manner) and want to run our lives
>for us. The states: you've got Washington; Europe, we've got Brussels.
>
>**********************************************************************
>You will be told what to do, you will be told how much money you can
>keep, how long to work, WHAT TO THINK AND WHAT TO RESEARCH - if it ain't
>the estab. line you don't eat!
>*********************************************************************
>
>Just look at how they operate. Its a small world right (that's why I
>believe that space research is so important) and people have to live
>together, but we are now THOUGHT POLICED and rational debate about groups
>is stiffled. Their aim is to control you by GUILT ('ridicule is a powerful
>weapon') and to trip up your THOUGHT PROCESSES (a person unable to think
>is on their knees).
>
>So these are mad ramblings by some youth with an attitude. We're all on
>Vortex because we passionate about things because we believe them to be
>correct. We operate by observation and logic - no one can tell me any
>different.
>
>Remi.
>
>'The Good Samaritan was also good because he had money'
>Dame Thatcher.
>
>This email comes from a university which with the blessing of my former
>supervisor, I use as a business base whilst helping out in the
>department, teaching and supervising students. I will remember their
>assistance, should I do well...


Dear Remi,

A good post.

In her non-fiction writings [e.g. CAPITALISM: THE UNKNOWN IDEAL], Ayn Rand
also discusses many of the good points which you make.  And, as you may
know, it has been said that Rand modeled her hero "John Galt" [ATLAS
SHRUGGED] to some extent on that of Nikola Tesla.

With freedom in mind,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html



"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 05:30:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA28422; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:20:49 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:20:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530501af5c3071e233 [199.237.131.244]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 04:24:26 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: New rule for Vortex-L
Resent-Message-ID: <"Adu-o1.0._x6.k-dDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5263
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:08 PM 1/19/97, William Beaty wrote:
>Here's what I've added to the list of rules.  It's intended to prevent
>recurrences of events like the "magnets motor" crossover discussion from
>freenrg-L.
>
>5. Please do not include any other email list in the TO line or the CC
>   line of your messages to vortex-L.  In the past this has caused
>   thread leakage between lists and redundant messages as replies from
>   subscribers go to both lists.  It's OK to manually forward mail from
>   other lists to vortex-L, as long as the TO line and CC line has only
>   vortex-L and no other list.
>
>
>.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
>William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
>EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
>Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


How quickly we forget!

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 05:47:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA20652; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:39:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 05:39:14 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530503af5c34a3de74 [199.237.131.244]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 04:42:56 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"0Qym01.0.Y25.0GeDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5264
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 6:56 PM 3/23/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>At 01:52 AM 3/24/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
[snip]
>>The kinetic energy of the lepton in orbit radius r is given by:
>>
>>(1)    K = q^2/((8Pi)(e0)(r)) = (1/2)(m)(v^2)
>>
>>So velocity:
>>
>>(2)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)(r)(m))^0.5
>>
>>Given m1 = mass of light electron, m2 = mass of heavy, v1 velocity of
>>light, v2 velocity of heavy, at a given r this gives:
>>
>>(3)    v1/v2 = (m2/m1)^0.5
>>
>>The lighter the particle the faster the particle at a given r.  Similarly
>>the rotational frequency is proportional to (1/m)^0.5, while momentum and
>>angular momentum are proportional to (m)^0.5 at a given r, e.g.:
>>
>>(4)    p = mv = ((m)(q^2)/(4(pi)e0(r))^0.5
>>
>>Given that the radius is quantized to:
>>
>>(5)    r = (n^2) ((h^2)(e0))/((pi)(q^2)(m)),  for n = 1,2,3, ...
>>
[snip]
>>
>>It seems the existence of light electrons as you describe precludes quantum
>>mechanics. Did I make some mistakes here?
>
>I think so Horace, v = c{1 - 1/[(qV/Mo*c^2) + 1]^2)^1/2    :-)
[snip]
>Regards,     Frederick


It appears you are not suggesting a specific math or formulation error but
are denying (1) or (5) as being applicable. Is this true?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 07:57:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA11551; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:41:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:41:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703241540.KAA13470 mail.enter.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chronos mailman.enter.net>
From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos enter.net>
Organization: Applied Science Associates
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:53:24 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
Reply-to: chronos enter.net
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"ncKY62.0.Oq2.J2gDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5270
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          Self <Single-user mode>
To:            Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>,gwatson@microtronics.com.au
Subject:       Re: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
Reply-to:      chronos enter.net
Date:          Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:48:48 -0500

On 24 Mar 97 at 8:29, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote:
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>

> Here is some info on the Feynman electromagnetic carousel paradox.
> Has anyone any more info?

> >From Richard Feynman's Lectures on Physics we learn that there is 
> intrinsic field energy and momentum density associated with a static
> electro-magnetic field configuration. When there is a change in the
> magnetic field, this field energy and momentum can be directly
> converted into kinetic energy and mechanical momentum. Feynman
> illustrates this with an electromagnetic carousel paradox. In this
> paradox, a dielectric disk (which is embedded with small charged
> spheres along its circumference) rotates without any apparent
> "counter" torque in the system. Before this rotation occurs, the
> dielectric disk is immersed in a static magnetic field. The
> subsequent rotation occurs as a consequence to reducing the
> previously static magnetic field to zero. The angular momentum and
> rotational kinetic energy comes directly from the initial static
> magnetic field. 



Feynman says (p. 17-5) this is only an *apparent* paradox, not a true
anomaly or mystery. He is giving an example of how correct application
of conventional EM laws sometimes yields counter-intuitive results.

Feynman explains the "paradox" on page 27-11:

"Where did the angular momentum come from? The answer is that If you
have a magnetic field and some charges, there will be some angular
momentum in the field. It must have been put there when the field was
built up. When the field is turned off, the angular momentum is given
back. So the disc in the paradox *would* start rotating. This "mystic"
circulating flow of energy, which at first seemed so ridiculous, is
absolutely necessary. There really is a momentum flow. It is needed to
maintain the conservation of angular momentum in the whole world." 
[Ref. 1.]


To keep track of momentum flows in the EM field, one must use the
VECTOR POTENTIAL equations of electrodynamics, PLUS correct boundary
conditions, because the fields (E, B, D, H) do not contain sufficient
information by themselves to tell the full story.

This point is explained further: 

------quote from Ref. 2 ---------

"An electrostatic system c, and a magnetostatic system m, both at
rest, have zero Maxwellian mutual energy:

E_c dot E_m  +  H_c dot H_m == 0

Also, neither force nor torque are exerted between them.

Nevertheless, HIDDEN opposite linear and angular momenta do reside in
each -- the fossils, so to speak, of the forces that were alive during
the build-up of this self-static system.  During that time, a stressed
structure was needed as a removable scaffolding.  

Such systems are in a specific kind of indifferent equilibrium; 
moving one of the two pieces generates a transient force and/or 
torque that moves deterministically the other one. If the change is
slow so that radiation is negligable, the total work is zero, and so
is the net energy balance.

-------- end quote -------

Ref. 2 shows how the EM field can contain hidden LINEAR momentum,
along with hidden angular momentum (which was the point of Feynman's
carousel.)  


Experimenters with devices like magnetic motors and contra-wound
coils should be aware of the possibility that seemingly anomalous
effects could be nothing but manifestations of these "hidden"
linear/angular momenta, which (as Feynman says) are conservative
(i.e., non O/U). This possibility should be checked when doing a full
energy accounting of such devices.

Part of the difficulty is that many EM textbooks and computer
simulations are written in terms of fields, rather than potentials. 

The BRIGHT side of the coin is that the EM vector potentials might be
exploited to obtain effects that would not seem possible otherwise.
After all, the 4-vector potential A is the link between
electromagnetism and the QM wavefunction, according to deBroglie's
formula:

P_i  =  m_0 x V^i  -  e x A^i  =  (h/2PI) x k_i

where i = 0,1,2,3.

Konopinski [Ref. 4] uses this to show that the physical meaning of A
is a "phase-shifter" for the deBroglie wave (psi), which can shuttle
momentum in/out of the EM field.

----------------

1. "The Feynman Lectures on Physics" by Richard Feynman, R.B.
Leighton, and M. Sands.Volume II, p. 17-6 and p. 27-11.

2. "Electromagnetic Gauge as Integration Condition: Einstein's 
Mass-Energy Equivalence Law and Action-Reaction Opposition" by O.
Costa de Beauregard.  pp. 77-104 in Ref. 3.

3. Advanced Electromagnetism: Foundations, Theory and Applications.
Terence W. Barrett and Dale M. Grimes, eds. World-Scientific. 1995.
ISBN 981-02-2095-2.

4. "What the electromagnetic vector potential describes" by E.J.
Konopinski, Am. J. Phys. 46 (5) May 1978 pp. 499-502.




Best regards, 
Bob Flower

=======================================================
Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates
Quality Control Engineering
Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer
=======================================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 08:18:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA00239; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:14:57 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:14:57 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Free Electrons and Light Positrons?
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:14:15 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324151413.AAA26407 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"lYI7-1.0.f3.lffDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5265
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Say that light electrons are forming Randy Mills' "Hydrino"
(1H1*), (1H2*), and (1H3*) with a radius possibly around
a few fermi.

This leaves an electron and a positive light positron that
cannot annihilate, but, maintain charge balance in nature.
They attach to about anything in the environment and gave us 
the observed Static Electricity in nature.

What an interesting development.   :-)

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 08:18:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA00598; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:16:29 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:16:29 -0800
Message-Id: <199703241516.HAA24528 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:19:15 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Collapsed atoms and BlackLight Power and balloons
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
CC: RMCarrell aol.com
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <970324075803_-569819296 emout01.mail.aol.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"jhcGB3.0.G9.BhfDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5266
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

From:          RMCarrell aol.com

"Some questions are cropping up to the effect that if collapsed atoms are
energetically favorable they should be everywhere. 

Once again, friends, do your homework and read the ample materials at the
BlackLight homepage. The collapse of hydrogen is triggered by very specific
catalytic conditions, and yes, the universe is full of the stuff -- it is the
dark matter which cosmology says must be present but which has remained
undetected because it does not absorb or radiate electromagnetic energy. "

---------------- 

If someone were making hydrinos in large quantities such as the number that
would be released in the Blacklight devices and they are essentially inert we
could readily separate them. We would separate the hydrogen and hydrinos from
the reactor gas and use it to fill a balloon. We'd then getter out all the
normal reactive hydrogen leaving us with a balloon full of hydrinos. Where are
these hydrinos. It seems Blacklight and Mills have repeatedly hypothesized
that they exist but never seem to show them off. They must have them they have
been reportedly running these experiments for years. Are the hydrinos so
secret no one is allowed to have a few million out of the gazillions created
to confirm their existence.




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 08:20:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA01215; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:18:43 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:18:43 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703240913.ZM2358 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:13:24 -0600
In-Reply-To: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 CompuServe.COM>
        "Oil Companies the Culprits?" (Mar 21,  5:48pm)
References: <970321221141_72240.1256_EHB131-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Oil Companies the Culprits?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"oomEu2.0.uI.IjfDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5267
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mar 21,  5:48pm, Jed Rothwell wrote:

<snip> Petrochemical feedstocks will be
> synthesized at the plastics factory, out of air and water. That will be
safer,
> cheaper, easier, and more convenient than transporting oil from Saudi Arabia
> or Texas. The process will be automated, so you always have just enough stock
> when you need it, and you don't have to pay a trucker to drive dangerous
> chemicals over long distances two days late. The company that makes the oil
> synthesizer machine will earn a little, but nobody else will.

You lost me Jed.  Did someone invent a Star Trek replicator while I was
sleeping?  Polymer manufacturing is a bit more complicated than that.  To begin
with, air and water do not even have appreciable concentrations of the base
materials.  Please explain.

-john

-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 08:39:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA03870; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:35:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:35:27 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:34:41 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324153439.AAA7033 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"tdVbt.0.Oy.zyfDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5269
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:42 PM 3/24/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>At 6:56 PM 3/23/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>>At 01:52 AM 3/24/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>[snip]
>>>The kinetic energy of the lepton in orbit radius r is given by:
>>>
>>>(1)    K = q^2/((8Pi)(e0)(r)) = (1/2)(m)(v^2)
>>>
>>>So velocity:
>>>
>>>(2)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)(r)(m))^0.5
>>>
>>>Given m1 = mass of light electron, m2 = mass of heavy, v1 velocity of
>>>light, v2 velocity of heavy, at a given r this gives:
>>>
>>>(3)    v1/v2 = (m2/m1)^0.5
>>>
>>>The lighter the particle the faster the particle at a given r.  Similarly
>>>the rotational frequency is proportional to (1/m)^0.5, while momentum and
>>>angular momentum are proportional to (m)^0.5 at a given r, e.g.:
>>>
>>>(4)    p = mv = ((m)(q^2)/(4(pi)e0(r))^0.5
>>>
>>>Given that the radius is quantized to:
>>>
>>>(5)    r = (n^2) ((h^2)(e0))/((pi)(q^2)(m)),  for n = 1,2,3, ...
>>>
>[snip]
>>>
>>>It seems the existence of light electrons as you describe precludes quantum
>>>mechanics. Did I make some mistakes here?
>>
>>I think so Horace, v = c{1 - 1/[(qV/Mo*c^2) + 1]^2)^1/2    :-)
>[snip]
>>Regards,     Frederick
>
>
>It appears you are not suggesting a specific math or formulation error but
>are denying (1) or (5) as being applicable. Is this true?
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
>
No problem if in (1) kinetic energy K = 1/2*Mo*gamma*v^2 and
in (5) (m) = Mo*gamma. For a regular no significant change,
for a light it makes the difference.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 08:50:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA03554; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:31:56 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:31:56 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703240926.ZM2438 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:26:45 -0600
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Scientists Discover New Element
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"Q14X23.0.Rt.hvfDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5268
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Remi, this one's for you.  I think it may explain a few things.

     ISU RESEARCHERS DISCOVER NEW ELEMENT

     AMES, IA--The heaviest element known to science was recently
     discovered by materials researchers at IPRT/ISU. The new
     element, tentatively named Administratium, has no protons or
     electrons, and thus has an atomic weight of 0. However, it
     does have one neutron, 125 assistant neutrons, 75 vice
     neutrons, and 111 assistant vice neutrons. This gives it an
     atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together in a
     nucleus by a force that involves the continuous exchange of
     particles called morons.

     Since it has no electrons, Administratium is totally inert.
     However, it can be detected chemically, since it impedes every
     reaction it comes into contact with. According to its
     discoverers, a tiny amount of Administratium caused one reaction
     to take over four days to complete; the normal reaction time
     is less than one second.

     Administratium has a normal half life of approximately three
     years, at which time it does not actually decay, but instead
     undergoes a reorganization in which neutrons, vice neutrons,
     and assistant vice neutrons exchange places. Studies have
     shown that the atomic mass usually increases after each
     reorganization.

     Research at other laboratories indicates that Administratium
     occurs naturally in the atmosphere. It tends to concentrate at
     certain points, such as governmental agencies, large
     corporations, and universities. It is always found in the
     newest, best appointed and best maintained buildings.

     Scientists point out that Administratium is known to be toxic
     at any level of concentration and can easily destroy any
     productive reactions where it is allowed to accumulate.
     Attempts are being made to determine how Administratium can be
     controlled to prevent irreversible damage, but results to date
     are not promising.


Happy Monday!  -john

-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 08:52:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA05164; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:46:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:46:37 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Companies the Culprits?
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:45:53 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324154552.AAA11574 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"_xsgU.0.cG1.R7gDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5271
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:13 PM 3/24/97 +0000, John Steck wrote:
>On Mar 21,  5:48pm, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
><snip> Petrochemical feedstocks will be
>> synthesized at the plastics factory, out of air and water. That will be
>safer,
>> cheaper, easier, and more convenient than transporting oil from Saudi Arabia
>> or Texas. The process will be automated, so you always have just enough stock
>> when you need it, and you don't have to pay a trucker to drive dangerous
>> chemicals over long distances two days late. The company that makes the oil
>> synthesizer machine will earn a little, but nobody else will.
>
>You lost me Jed.  Did someone invent a Star Trek replicator while I was
>sleeping?  Polymer manufacturing is a bit more complicated than that.  To begin
>with, air and water do not even have appreciable concentrations of the base
>materials.  Please explain.
>
>-john
>
>-- 
>John E. Steck 
>Motorola Inc.
>
With the existing 350 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere you can use
limestone CaCO3 and MgCO3 that are very abundant Same as in portland 
cement and drive off the CO2,and react it with hydrogen to make
hydrocarbons. Then let the CaO and MgO collect the CO2 out of the
atmosphere for completing the cycle. No more of a "Star Trek Replicator"
than a plant in the Carbon Cycle.  :-)

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 09:22:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA20022; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:01:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:01:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703241701.SAA46900 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:43:00 CET
Subject: Cold Fusion Excess Heat
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"SZesu2.0.gu4.xDhDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5274
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


Perhaps I should add to my report from the Conference in St Petersburg, 
that Professor Kanarev told that they used a Cold Fusion reactor as energy 
source for (if I understood it correctly) a drinking water destillation 
plant. Kanarev didnt bother to give much documentation. No photographs, no 
drawings, no details. To him Cold Fusion was just a not really understood 
energy source, which wasnt used for electricity production, but that was 
useful for some other energy purposes, such as destillation of drinking 
water.

He therefore had to provide some theory for it. He was a theorist, so he 
had been given this task. His theory was a bit like Mills. His theory was 
one that used electrons that jumped from one (Bohr) energy level in the 
hydrogen atom to another, and mysteriously provided surplus energy.

I dont believe Kanarev's explanatation.

But from what he told, they had Cold Fusion reactors providing excess heat 
in Krasnodar.

You could ask him for further details.

>From my viewpoint the excess heat from Cold Fusion has been convincingly 
reported by many good western (USA) and Japanese scientists. I am not 
really in doubt that Cold Fusion sometimes produces excess heat. I think 
some nuclear fusion is the source of the energy. I really dont know how the 
hard ionizing radiation (you would expect), instead turns up as mainly 
heat, and as a slight amount of neutrons and soft X-ray radiation. 

So I have no satisfying theoretical explanation. 

My own attempts at inducing cold fusion have not given convincing 
experimental valiation. I have a cold fusion reactor, which I sometimes 
fire up to do some experiments. Sometimes I get positive results,  but 
critical analysis usually shows that the results are not 100% credible.

So I can condense my results to : I often get a near NIL result. Maybe I 
should try a little harder....

Regards, Anders




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 09:32:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA21457; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:16:15 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:16:15 -0800 (PST)
Date: 24 Mar 97 12:12:19 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: BlackLight balloons, pot calling kettle 
Message-ID: <970324171218_72240.1256_EHB133-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"rMsyT1.0.8F5.QRhDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5275
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Russ writes:

     If someone were making hydrinos in large quantities such as the number
     that would be released in the Blacklight devices and they are
     essentially inert we could readily separate them. We would separate the
     hydrogen and hydrinos from the reactor gas and use it to fill a balloon.
     . . . Are the hydrinos so secret no one is allowed to have a few million
     out of the gazillions created to confirm their existence.

A few years ago Mills claimed he was doing exactly that: collecting hydrinos
in Mylar balloons and sending them to other labs to be analyzed. I have no
idea whether that is true or not; which labs he was sending them to; or what
the analysis revealed. I am just pointing out that Mills agrees with Russ that
the Mylar balloon technique should work.

I don't give much credibility to the claims of Mills or Blacklight precisely
because they have not shared their Mylar balloons far and wide. They have not
shown their excess heat devices to many people. I agree with Russ that they
are being excessively secret. However, they have published excellent papers
in Fusion Technology. Back when they were doing Ni electrolysis experiments, I
know they were helpful when people called for assistance replicating the
results. They do have a solid record of making results public and publishing
well-written, detailed papers. Russ George, on the other hand, has never
published anything as far as I know, except the material on his web page. I am
sorry to repeat this, but I and many others find his lectures unsatisfactory.
He has never followed up on a lecture with a proceedings paper, despite
numerous opportunities to do so. If Mills is not justified in keeping his
hydrinos secret, by the same token I cannot understand why Russ and E-Quest
withhold the data from the Los Alamos tests performed years ago. If anyone is
guilty of self-destructive, counter-productive secrecy in this business, it is
E-Quest and Russ George. This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
The thing is, Russ often demands recognition as a CF scientist and as an
expert in subjects like spectral analysis. He gets upset when people do not
take his results seriously. Yet he refuses to publish! How can anyone expect
to be accepted if he is unwilling to publish? I do not understand this. When
people question my credibility (such as it is), I can, at least, point to
articles I have written and papers I have translated. You can read them and
judge for yourself whether I know what I am talking about. Say what you like
about Mills, it is abundantly clear that he knows how to do a good experiment
and how to write it up in proper form. There is not enough meat in Russ's home
page for people to judge his level of expertise.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 09:46:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA10450; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:24:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:24:06 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703241018.ZM2689 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:18:59 -0600
In-Reply-To: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
        "Re: Oil Companies the Culprits?" (Mar 24,  9:43am)
References: <19970324154552.AAA11574 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Oil Companies the Culprits?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"vTnFq3.0.8Z2.aggDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5272
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mar 24,  9:43am, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:

> With the existing 350 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere you can use
> limestone CaCO3 and MgCO3 that are very abundant Same as in portland
> cement and drive off the CO2,and react it with hydrogen to make
> hydrocarbons. Then let the CaO and MgO collect the CO2 out of the
> atmosphere for completing the cycle. No more of a "Star Trek Replicator"
> than a plant in the Carbon Cycle.  :-)

This makes sense, but not economically.  Raw material concentrations are not
high enough.  It's still easier and cheeper to pump it out of the ground.  I
could be wrong, but I don't think this is what Jed was driving at.  I believe
he was talking of a 'replacement' source for petrochemical feedstock, not an
'alternate' or 'suplimental' source.  One is intrinsically harder to find than
the other.

I hate speculating on what someone may have intended to mean, so I'll reserve
my opinion before potentially wandering further from the point.  Thanks for
thinking it through though.

CO2 generating unit 146,752,874 over and out!  -john

-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 09:56:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA23881; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:39:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:39:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:38:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970324123823_-1605023759 emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
Resent-Message-ID: <"mF9vX2.0.0r5.-mhDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5276
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


In a message dated 3/23/97 4:58:42 PM, Greg Watson asked:

<<Here is some info on the Feynman electromagnetic carousel paradox.  Has
anyone any more info.>>

There has been a lively discussion of this in the American Jour. of Physics.
 The relevant references are: vol 51, p 213, 1983;  vol 53, p 15, 1985;  vol
53, p 496, 1985;  vol 54, p 949, 1986;  vol 59, p 180, 1991.

Hal Puthoff  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 10:06:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA15782; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:59:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:59:03 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Companies the Culprits?
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:58:03 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324165801.AAA19768 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"2P_Z_1.0.Js3.JBhDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5273
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 04:18 PM 3/24/97 +0000, John Steck wrote:
>On Mar 24,  9:43am, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>
>> With the existing 350 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere you can use
>> limestone CaCO3 and MgCO3 that are very abundant Same as in portland
>> cement and drive off the CO2,and react it with hydrogen to make
>> hydrocarbons. Then let the CaO and MgO collect the CO2 out of the
>> atmosphere for completing the cycle. No more of a "Star Trek Replicator"
>> than a plant in the Carbon Cycle.  :-)
>
>This makes sense, but not economically.  Raw material concentrations are not
>high enough.  It's still easier and cheeper to pump it out of the ground.  I
>could be wrong, but I don't think this is what Jed was driving at.  I believe
>he was talking of a 'replacement' source for petrochemical feedstock, not an
>'alternate' or 'suplimental' source.  One is intrinsically harder to find than
>the other.

It does make a lot more sense to use the megatons of biomass that are
considered agricultural wastes that collected the CO2 from the atmosphere 
for chemical feedstocks as opposed to pumping oil out of the
ground and stopping the "Greenhouse Effect" which if not corrected
is going to turn this Planet into the "OUTHOUSE EFFECT".

>
>I hate speculating on what someone may have intended to mean, so I'll reserve
>my opinion before potentially wandering further from the point.  Thanks for
>thinking it through though.
>
>CO2 generating unit 146,752,874 over and out!  -john

Flatulant this morning?   :-)
>
>-- 
>John E. Steck 
>Motorola Inc.
>
>
Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 10:33:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA27354; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:14:49 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:14:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l mail.eskimo.com
From: Ed Wall <ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Valid Demo 
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:13:47 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324181345.AAA2252 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"8lsmL3.0.Fh6.MIiDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5278
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Vortex:

My initial feel for this forum has a fairly rough vortexture.

If there is anything that seriously undermines the credibility of OU claims,
as many believe, it is the ongoing lack of a commercialized demo.  A typical
thing people think when faced with deciding if the claims can be true is,
"If it were true, there are lots of really smart people who would tell us
about it.  Besides, if all routes of information were distorted somehow, at
least the free market will ferret out anything of value, so I'll wait and
see what happens. "  What if those really smart people are smart enough to
not get burned by conflicting with the status-quo (in view of F&P's,
Hagelstein's and O'M Bockris' and others' experiences)? What if the
assumptions of the Efficient Market Hypothesis do not apply?  Capitalists
can only act on information they believe is credible.  If the scientific
community does not provide for whatever reason a public endorsement, venture
capitalists are on very shaky ground, even for them.

The thinking seems to be that a demo must do some really paradigm-shaking
kinda action to convince lots of people at once.  That if it doesn't play
well to 10 seconds of CNN coverage, there can be no paradigm shifting
effect.  But wait, can someone please state why the E-Quest ultrasonic
cavitation device is not a thoroughly convincing demo?  And if it does what
Tom Benson (IE#1) wrote it does, why aren't lots of labs replicating such a
convincing DEMO?  A device that produces anomalous melting, excess heat, and
transmutations with very high repeatability would be expected to be a hard
thing to ignore.  A device that does nothing unusual with light water, but
melts submerged Pd with heavy water does not require sophisticated
calorimetry to analyze.  It is very simple.  Does it work?  Are there any
non-nuclear explanations for the kind of concentrated heat necessary to
produce the tiny "volcanoes" on the surface of the Pd?  By default, a
responsible position to take would be that the best explanation available is
an unknown class of nuclear reactions.  If its too scary to say its nuclear,
then admit the existence of power densities unexplainable by known chemical
reactions next time Rush Limbaugh calls.  Not being able to explain how it
works is not an excuse to avoid answering those questions.  The fact that
there is no public knowledge of this device is unacceptable.

Does a demo have to be appealing to a pre-teen mentality to be accepted as
proof?  Does it have to start a science-fare fad?  Science magazine lends
credibility to a magician who pretends to make petrol from herbs. Is there
any kind of enforcement of standards?

I don't mean to be rude, but please answer.  Isn't the main tasks of
scientists to understand, investigate and explain important stuff, to
uncover fallacies?   Am I missing something here, like am I preaching to the
choir?  Hello?

Ed Wall

"Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is the
very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their professional
endeavor."

Correas

Are the Correas correct?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 10:50:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA21554; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:43:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:43:02 -0800
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/0003EE7C xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: "josephnewman earthlink.net" <josephnewman@earthlink.net>,
        Vortex-L
	 <Vortex-L eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Cost of Energy: True cost is people's time and expertise.
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:37:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"TyH8e3.0.iG5.bqhDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5277
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Evan
	To save time and computer disk space, please clip the source
messages, as I have done here.
Hank Scudder
 ----------
From: josephnewman earthlink.net
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of Energy: True cost is people's time and expertise.
Date: Monday, March 24, 1997 6:07AM


>On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Martin Sevior wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Remi Cornwall wrote:
>>
>> > Vortexians,
<snip>

Dear Remi,

A good post.

In her non-fiction writings [e.g. CAPITALISM: THE UNKNOWN IDEAL], Ayn
Rand
also discusses many of the good points which you make.  And, as you may
know, it has been said that Rand modeled her hero "John Galt" [ATLAS
SHRUGGED] to some extent on that of Nikola Tesla.

With freedom in mind,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html



"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 10:52:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA00496; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:40:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:40:50 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:40:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Valid Demo. This year is it.
In-Reply-To: <19970324181345.AAA2252 LOCALNAME>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970324182659.16327E-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"Qw-hP3.0.g7.kgiDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5280
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dear Ed Wall,

You're quite right in your concerns. This is why I believe in freedom, the 
free market and democracy with correct laws in place to avoid mob-rule.

Anyone can sit in their bedroom, whatever and dream. Anyone can then seek
companionship of like minded people to turn dreams into reality - no
official has to be appeased (or Gods for that matter), or mob pacified
because your research offends their little craniums and insular views. 

Witness Dolly incident, people have been doing G.E. for ages - they just
do it better nowadays on a few genes at a time - I heard someone say
(close to me) that Scientists doing that should be executed... What then
of all the greats who upset our paradigm and cosy existence and gave us
our modern lifestyle - 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'. 

This year is it - both theory (comprehensible, especially to those with an
engineering bent) and results will come through, and its nothing to do
with Hale-Bop! Big things seem to happen at starts and ends of centuries -
spring cleaning. 

'There was really nothing to be scared about anyway'
You know it makes sense,
Forget the stupid - unless they are stupid enough to fool with you,
Remi. 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 11:08:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA01939; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:51:45 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:51:45 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530501af5c7bcc7e2d [199.237.131.244]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:55:10 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"HW_q81.0.6U.xqiDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5282
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 6:34 AM 3/24/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>No problem if in (1) kinetic energy K = 1/2*Mo*gamma*v^2 and
>in (5) (m) = Mo*gamma. For a regular no significant change,
>for a light it makes the difference.
>
>Regards,    Frederick

I would have thought so too. However, in calculating v the masses
cancelled. Substituing Mo*gamma for m has no effect on the final outcome of
the calculation. The gammas cancel also.  The reduction of degrees of
freedom on velocity are due to the simultaneous requirements of equations
(1) and (5).

For convenience here is the calculation again:

NEWTONIAN LOOK AT THE PROBLEM

The kinetic energy of the lepton in orbit radius r is given by:

(1)    K = q^2/((8Pi)(e0)(r)) = (1/2)(m)(v^2)

So velocity:

(2)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)(r)(m))^0.5

Given m1 = mass of light electron, m2 = mass of heavy, v1 velocity of
light, v2 velocity of heavy, at a given r this gives:

(3)    v1/v2 = (m2/m1)^0.5

The lighter the particle the faster the particle at a given r.  Similarly
the rotational frequency is proportional to (1/m)^0.5, while momentum and
angular momentum are proportional to (m)^0.5 at a given r, e.g.:

(4)    p = mv = ((m)(q^2)/(4(pi)e0(r))^0.5

Given that the radius is quantized to:

(5)    r = (n^2) ((h^2)(e0))/((pi)(q^2)(m)),  for n = 1,2,3, ...

For the Bohr radius (n=1) or any specific quantum state (n>1), using r1 for
light, r2 for heavy, the radius ratio is given by:

(6)    r1/r2 = m2/m1

So, the bigger the mass the smaller the radius and vice versa.

However, we can't just chose mass and velocity any old way.  Let's just
consider ground state for a moment. Substitute n=1 and (5) into (2):

(7)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)[(h^2)(e0)/((pi)(q^2)(m))](m))^0.5

Simplifying:

(8)    v^2 = ((q^2)(pi)(m)(q^2))/(4(pi)(e0)(m)(h^2)(e0))

(9)    v^2 = q^4/(4(h^2)(e0^2))

(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h))    (Hope I did that right! Note that mass cancels)

(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul

(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2

(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec

(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec))

(15)   v = 2.18x10^6 m/s

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 11:10:00 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA01532; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:50:43 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:50:43 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130500af5c8ba3b17e [153.34.202.179]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:52:41 -0600
To: Vortex-L eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Cost of Energy: True cost is people's time and expertise.
Resent-Message-ID: <"IACff1.0.rN.0qiDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5281
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Evan
>To save time and computer disk space, please clip the source
>messages, as I have done here.
>Hank Scudder
snip---
>"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
>physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY

Hank -- thanks for the suggestion.
Evan


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 11:25:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA27624; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:22:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:22:47 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:22:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970324132202_987896482 emout15.mail.aol.com>
To: windski eskimo.com
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ZPE = ether? Any scientific evidence? 
Resent-Message-ID: <"GdLd-2.0.Yl6.sPiDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5279
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Toni,

In my Ad Astra article, Jan/Feb 1997, " Space Propulsion: Can
Empty Space Itself Provide A Solution?, I only addressed the energetic
aspects of the ZPE quantum vacuum, not really whether this can be equated
with "ether."  However, the ZPE I was talking about are solutions of
Maxwell's equations, and from time to time in the literature showing that one
can derive Maxwell's eqns from a model of an underlying fine-scale fluid with
infinitesimal vortices in it.  See, for example, papers by Kelley on the
vortex sponge model of th ether, Amer Jour of Physics, vol 31, p 785, 1963
and vol 32, p 657, 1964, and a followup paper in Il Nuovo Cimento, vol 32B, p
117, 1976.

With regard to anomalies in measurement, I know of them but never put much
thought into them.. In my perspective, there is nothing wrong with a
Lorentz-invariant ether, so it is not necessary to see such, though of course
such there may be.  However, I think that is a separate issue as to whether
an ether exists.

On the multi-time axes, I'm not up on it.

Hal    


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 11:39:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA03073; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:13:52 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:13:52 -0800
From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
Message-Id: <199703241913.LAA00538 shell.skylink.net>
Subject: Re: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:13:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"EXEoV2.0.xl.l9jDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5283
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert Flower writes:
> Ref. 2 shows how the EM field can contain hidden LINEAR momentum,
> along with hidden angular momentum (which was the point of Feynman's
> carousel.)  

Yes. Assuming field theory is reasonable to begin with, we can 
mathematically show that the EM field can and must contain momentum. 
Still, inquiring minds might wish to know where this momentum
actually is -- somewhere out there in the vacuum? The sentence 
quoted above might be better put without use of the word "how".

Regards,
Robert Stirniman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 11:41:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA06160; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:25:39 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:25:39 -0800 (PST)
Date: 24 Mar 97 13:44:28 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Synthesizing oil
Message-ID: <970324184427_72240.1256_EHB126-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"JhNQi1.0.5W1.kKjDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5284
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

I made a somewhat flippant comment that it would be cheaper to synthesize oil
from "air and water" rather than dig it out of the ground. I meant it would be
cheaper to use local supplies of hydrogen (from water, of course), and carbon
to synthesize hydrocarbons. In North America, I suppose you might get carbon
cheaply from coal, or garbage, or perhaps from CO2 in the air, using the
method Fred suggests. Ultimately, perhaps in a few hundred years, I expect it
would be cheapest to get it from the air, because that process could be
automated and it would not require shipping raw materials or waiting for
delivery while the plant sits idle. As John Steck points out "air and water do
not even have appreciable concentrations of the base materials." The
concentration of carbon in the air is low, but air is mighty convenient stuff,
because you don't have to ship it in from Texas or Saudi Arabia. As far as I
know, at present the only thing we "mine" from the atmosphere is nitrogen, but
I suppose it might become economical to mine carbon. If it turns out the
greenhouse effect is real and CO2 is a threat to the ecology, we may be forced
to set up large scale carbon extraction. We may have to put all that carbon
back where we found it. The Scientific American September 1990 issue describes
schemes to "sequester" carbon from burning fossil fuel, in places like the sea
bed.

Mining the atmosphere is like mining ocean water. On one hand, concentrations
are low, so it requires advanced technology and lots of energy. On the other
hand, the atmosphere and the ocean are ubiquitous, plentiful, and convenient
to get to. You don't have to pay anyone for mining rights. You do not mess up
the landscape. Mining the ocean will be a nice side benefit of large scale
desalination for irrigation. You might well take some of that magnesium,
bromine and gold out of the concentrated brine separated from the pure water.
Plenty of salt there, too, if anyone wants it. Clarke discusses this sort of
thing in "Profiles of the Future."

Years ago, when I first compiled my list of Gee Whiz energy applications,
synthesizing hydrocarbons was one of the first ones that occurred to me. I
have had several opportunities to ask experts in petrochemicals whether this
would be feasible. I ask them whether we can reverse the chemical processes,
"unburn" gasoline, assemble the free carbon and hydrogen again and make any
hydrocarbon petrochemical we want. The experts think about it for a minute and
say, sure, in principle we could, but it would cost a fortune. You would have
to burn a barrel of oil just to synthesize a gallon of the stuff. I say, yeah,
but if the energy was free . . . and after a while the light dawns. Usually,
they agree that if energy cost nothing, it might be economical to synthesize
the stuff. I think it is inevitable. When home refrigerators became popular
the ice man was out of business. When Dow Chemical or GE sells industrial oil
synthesizers, the few remaining oil companies will lose the other 20% of their
market.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 12:01:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA07823; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:42:38 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:42:38 -0800 (PST)
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:41:54 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970324144152_-1437732082 emout07.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: BlackLight Power, Hydrinos & Mills
Resent-Message-ID: <"FF7QA3.0.9w1.iajDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5285
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Russ George commented: 
---------------------------------------------
If someone were making hydrinos in large quantities such as the number that
would be released in the Blacklight devices and they are essentially inert we
could readily separate them. We would separate the hydrogen and hydrinos from
the reactor gas and use it to fill a balloon. We'd then getter out all the
normal reactive hydrogen leaving us with a balloon full of hydrinos. Where
are
these hydrinos. It seems Blacklight and Mills have repeatedly hypothesized
that they exist but never seem to show them off. They must have them they
have
been reportedly running these experiments for years. Are the hydrinos so
secret no one is allowed to have a few million out of the gazillions created
to confirm their existence.
-------------------------------------------
As with the Correas and the PAGD reaction, I am a messenger calling attention
to a lode of interesting information. I have taken the trouble to carefully
page through Mills' book (I didn't say study -- no bluebooks, please) and
read the contents of the web site. There are aspects of his theories that I
cannot critique and there are others in the Vortex forum more qualified to do
so. But as with the Correas, it would be useful if people would actually
**read** the web site before making comments. 

Mills has been working quietly for some years, and the Web site is a major
turn of strategy. His book contains reprints of several papers published in
Fusion Technology concerning experiments to confirm the existence of the
dihydrino molecule and other aspects of his work.

Page 2 of "First Shareholder Newsletter  '97" on the Web site mentions
preparations for new experiments which are expected to give definitive
evidence of the deep UV radiation signature and the existence of dihydrino
molecules in the next few months. 

One could infer that Mills has been working at a laboratory scale, not
producing ballons full of dihydrino gas for birthday parties and interested
experimenters. We will not see these until power production begins in
earnest, which may be only a few years distant. 

I was unaware of the Web site until Mills mentioned it to me in the course of
an extended phone conversation (which was mostly a review of his work). When
I announced it to the Vortex audience I fully expected the spirited
discussion which has followed. I do wish that participants would take the
trouble to read and understand what Mills is saying before jumping to
conclusions. 

I am pleased that John Logajan has included a link to the BlackLight Power
web site on his skypoint homepage. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 12:11:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA09350; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:54:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:54:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530506af5c88f9968d [199.237.131.225]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:58:02 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Valid Demo
Resent-Message-ID: <"qnTy-1.0.yH2.5mjDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5286
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 9:13 AM 3/24/97, Ed Wall wrote:
[snip]
>Does a demo have to be appealing to a pre-teen mentality to be accepted as
>proof?

Yes. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.", Carl Sagan. 8^)

>
>Ed Wall
>
>"Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
>research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is the
>very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their professional
>endeavor."
>
>Correas
>
>Are the Correas correct?

This is such an ordinary claim as to require no proof at all.  8^}

If it weren't for the few good mavericks in the established science
structure, some lurking here, maybe fringe and small science would be dead.
If nothing else, Pons and Fleischman have energized a lot of old turks,
and maybe some young ones as well, to get involved in small science and
innovation. The social pendulum swings back. Let's just hope it doesn't
swing too far in the direction of crooks, frauds, and magicians.

I think the reason you don't see a good demo is that one does not exist.

Heading for vacation or the nearest foxhole,

Horace

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 12:50:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12647; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:06:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:06:25 -0800
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970324120647.00c93d34 mail.localaccess.com>
X-Sender: epitaxy mail.localaccess.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:06:49 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Epitaxy <epitaxy LocalAccess.com>
Subject: RE: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_859262809==_"
Resent-Message-ID: <"rvPOy2.0.X53._wjDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5287
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

--=====================_859262809==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


The second (vertical) configuration.  See attached picture


At 03:36 AM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Epitaxy wrote:
> 
> >I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
> >vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
> >Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the bismuth
> >sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
> >observed a 15% weight reduction.  I went to great lengths to eliminate the
> >magnetic interaction error from the vertical weight measurements of the
> >bismuth sheet, still the effect remained.
>
>Wow! That's a rather dramatic result. Could you clarify the setup? it's
not entirely clear to me. Was it
>
>  magnet
>  bismuth
>  magnet
>
>Or was it
>
>M   b   M
>a   i   a
>g   s   g
>n   m   n
>e   u   e
>t   t   t
>    h
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
--=====================_859262809==_
Content-Type: image/gif; name="Bismuth.gif";
 x-mac-type="47494666"; x-mac-creator="4A565752"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Bismuth.gif"
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--=====================_859262809==_--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 12:53:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA14145; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:35:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:35:29 -0800 (PST)
Date: 24 Mar 97 15:33:22 EST
From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701 compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil
Message-ID: <970324203321_76016.2701_JHC135-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"vvshi3.0.tS3.DMkDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5288
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell says:

>>Mining the atmosphere is like mining ocean water.<<

Did you know that the present plan for a low cost (relatively) round trip to
Mars involves just this?  A robot ship would leave earth 18 mo.s before the
manned mission with an on-board supply of hydrogen.  On Mars, it would mine the
atmosphere to create Methane with byproducts of Oxygen and water.  The manned
ship could then launch without its return fuel assured that an adequate supply
of Methane awaited them on the Martain surface to fuel the return trip.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:02:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA22378; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:44:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:44:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130501af5cb1518c4c [153.34.203.172]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:45:50 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Evolution of Consciousness
Resent-Message-ID: <"9nHx42.0.XT5.sMlDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5292
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

snip---
>>"Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
>>research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is the
>>very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their professional
>>endeavor."
>>
>>Correas
>>
>>Are the Correas correct?
>
>This is such an ordinary claim as to require no proof at all.  8^}
>
>If it weren't for the few good mavericks in the established science
>structure, some lurking here, maybe fringe and small science would be dead.
>If nothing else, Pons and Fleischman have energized a lot of old turks,
snip----
>
>Heading for vacation or the nearest foxhole,
>
>Horace
>

In Mayhali Csikszentmayhali's book, "Flow", I came across this great quote
from John Stuart Mill, "No great improvements in the lot of mankind are
possible, until a great change takes place in the fundamental constitution
of their modes of thought."

Each new idea is an evolution of consciousness which is not understandable
until each person has undergone their personal evolution of consciousness.

--- R J Matherne



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:13:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA20438; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:58:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:58:47 -0800
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/0003F69A xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>, Vortex-L
	 <Vortex-L eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Who is john Galt, brother...?
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:55:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"6NnIV2.0.G_4.6ikDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5290
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ayn Rand's alter ego-the ultimate capitalist scientist. Not Tesla
Tesla is closer to Ayn's mad scientist with the death ray near the
end of Atlas shrugged.
He could not manage money. He let Westinghouse's bankers
steal his royalties, and got screwed into a corner by JP Morgan.
He also didn't exist in a time when every teenager has his own
Saturday night special.
 ----------
From: Remi Cornwall
To: Scudder,Henry J
Subject: Who is john Galt, brother...?
Date: Monday, March 24, 1997 10:08AM



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:24:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA30568; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:01:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:01:06 -0800
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:59:14 -0700 (MST)
From: Steve Ekwall <ekwall2 diac.com>
X-Sender: ekwall2 november
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Scientists Discover New Element
In-Reply-To: <9703240926.ZM2438 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.3.95.970324144314.26031A-100000 november>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"YUsye1.0.UT7.WclDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5293
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, John Steck wrote:
>      ISU RESEARCHERS DISCOVER NEW ELEMENT
> 
>      AMES, IA--The heaviest element known to science was recently
>      discovered by materials researchers at IPRT/ISU. ..snip..
>      ..snip..
>      Scientists point out that Administratium is known to be toxic


Natural Laws that might apply:

First Law: if anything can go wrong with the experiment(s), it will.

Second Law: No matter what result is anticipated, there is always someone
willing to fake it.

Patrick's Theorem: If the experiment works, YOU must be using the wrong
equipment. 

Skinner's Constant: That quantity which, when added to, subtracted from,
mutliplied by or divided into the answer you got, gives the correct
answer. 

Gumberson's Law: The probability that a given event will occur is
inversely proportional to its desirability.

Compensation Corollary:  An experiment may be considered successful if not
more than half the data _must_ be discarded to obtain agreement with your
theory. 

Carison's Consolation:   No experiment is a complete failure; it can
always be used as 'a bad example.'


--------
steve ekwall

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:33:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA30648; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:01:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:01:31 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:00:36 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324220034.AAA6561 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"WqjgU2.0.lU7.vclDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5294
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 06:55 PM 3/24/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>At 6:34 AM 3/24/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>>No problem if in (1) kinetic energy K = 1/2*Mo*gamma*v^2 and
>>in (5) (m) = Mo*gamma. For a regular no significant change,
>>for a light it makes the difference.
>>
>>Regards,    Frederick
>
>I would have thought so too. However, in calculating v the masses
>cancelled. Substituing Mo*gamma for m has no effect on the final outcome of
>the calculation. The gammas cancel also.  The reduction of degrees of
>freedom on velocity are due to the simultaneous requirements of equations
>(1) and (5).
>
>For convenience here is the calculation again:
>
>NEWTONIAN LOOK AT THE PROBLEM
>
>The kinetic energy of the lepton in orbit radius r is given by:
>
>(1)    K = q^2/((8Pi)(e0)(r)) = (1/2)(m)(v^2)
>
>So velocity:
>
>(2)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)(r)(m))^0.5
>
>Given m1 = mass of light electron, m2 = mass of heavy, v1 velocity of
>light, v2 velocity of heavy, at a given r this gives:
>
>(3)    v1/v2 = (m2/m1)^0.5
>
>The lighter the particle the faster the particle at a given r.  Similarly
>the rotational frequency is proportional to (1/m)^0.5, while momentum and
>angular momentum are proportional to (m)^0.5 at a given r, e.g.:
>
>(4)    p = mv = ((m)(q^2)/(4(pi)e0(r))^0.5
>
>Given that the radius is quantized to:
>
>(5)    r = (n^2) ((h^2)(e0))/((pi)(q^2)(m)),  for n = 1,2,3, ...
>
>For the Bohr radius (n=1) or any specific quantum state (n>1), using r1 for
>light, r2 for heavy, the radius ratio is given by:
>
>(6)    r1/r2 = m2/m1
>
>So, the bigger the mass the smaller the radius and vice versa.
>
>However, we can't just chose mass and velocity any old way.  Let's just
>consider ground state for a moment. Substitute n=1 and (5) into (2):
>
>(7)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)[(h^2)(e0)/((pi)(q^2)(m))](m))^0.5
>
>Simplifying:
>
>(8)    v^2 = ((q^2)(pi)(m)(q^2))/(4(pi)(e0)(m)(h^2)(e0))
>
>(9)    v^2 = q^4/(4(h^2)(e0^2))
>
>(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h))    (Hope I did that right! Note that mass cancels)
>
>(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul
>
>(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2
>
>(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec
>
>(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
>            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec))
>
>(15)   v = 2.18x10^6 m/s
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner 
>

Number crunching (my favorite pastime) I conclude that there 
are only two places where a light electron can orbit:

1, Out near the classical Bohr orbit (Ro) where the unit is
   not very relativistic.

2, At a radius equal to the classical radius of the electron
   2.81E-15 meters which is where the centripital and electrostatic
   forces are balanced when the gamma is equal to the ratio of the
   electron mass to the light particle mass.

You are a hard taskmaster Horace.   :-)

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:43:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA25485; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:30:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:30:35 -0800
Message-ID: <3336F247.C2C worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:29:47 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
References: <3.0.32.19970324120647.00c93d34 mail.localaccess.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"hFEhr1.0.7E6.v9lDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5291
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Re: Epitaxy's GIF - 

I see in one drawing you have the magnets up near the top of the plate,
and another near the bottom. Was the weight loss the same in each case?
One might expect there to be a weight reduction in the case where the
magnets were near the lower edge of the plate, as the plate might want
to rise up out of the field since the edge is near, and bismuth wants to
escape fields. But the opposite would occur with the magnets near the
top, and would cause a weight gain. Are you implying that the 15% or so
weight loss was the same with the magnets in either position? In the
center position (not illustrated) too? I'm going on the assumption that
the magnets were attached to a fixture separate from the plate and not
part of the weighed mass. Correct? It would be especially convincing if
the magnets *were* part of the weighed mass, which would eliminate all
possibility of magnetic repulsion working on the plate as the cause of
the weight loss. Of course that wouldn't help if there was an equal and
opposite reaction on the magnets anyway, whether or not magnetic.

If these comments are off base somehow, it's probably because I still
don't quite understand the setup details or the procedure you used to
run this experiment. But if this result can be confirmed as an actual
gravitational weight loss without any ambiguity, who cares about Tampere
and their piddling 2.1%??!! 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:48:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA28862; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:36:57 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:36:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b03af5cb06b0446 [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:38:35 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Resent-Message-ID: <"ydOFc3.0.t27.78mDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5295
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>On Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:18:47 -0800, Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote:
>[snip]
>>   I will concede that the smallness of nuclear cross sections seems to
>>irrevocably dictate that thermonuclear fusion devices will be large.  So, I
>>hang out on Vortex, to try to learn how we might do better.
>
>Michael,
>
>I'm curious about whether or not experiments at the high pressure, low
>temperature end of the spectrum have provided results which are in complete
>accordance with current theory, of have anomolies been noted in this area?
>
I am not aware of any such anomalies.  In controlled thermonuclear fusion
experiments we measure neutron production, and it agrees rather closely
with the neutron rate we calculate from the plssma temperature and density.
The greatest experimental error is in the calculation of the slowing down
of high energy ions in the plasma.

If anomalies exist, they are either small or classified.  (As I understand
it, Kasagi's paper at ICCF6 was an experimental verification of a small
'classical' shielding effect in solid state, and not an anomaly.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 14:58:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA04890; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:46:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:46:21 -0800
From: Ray_Conley MCKINSEY.COM
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: MCKINSEY   MCKINSEY-EXTERNAL@MCKTEST
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Message-Id: <85256464.007D1587.00 FINY-GATEWAYS01.NOTES.MCKINSEY.COM>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:52:59 -0400
Subject: Re: BlackLight Power, Hydrinos & Mills
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"VToET.0.KC1.wGmDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5297
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 





I would like to reaffirm Mike's request that the group spend the time to
read Randy's theory before filling Vortex with wild speculation.  The
Theory is quite straightforward, but it is also very non-conventional.  For
example, when the electron finally decays to a radius equal to that of the
nucleus, the atom spontaneously decays into gamma radiation (which is
observed).  After reading the material, I would be eager to hear criticism
from the group on the fundamental assumptions.  The most important
assumption in the whole theory is the application of the Haus boundary
condition to the electron wave function derivation.

-Ray Conley
404-335-3776


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 15:07:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA01206; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:54:31 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:54:31 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130513af5cbf93e406 [153.34.203.172]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:56:26 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: RE: Who is John Galt, brother...?
Resent-Message-ID: <"3GE9J.0.jI.XOmDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5298
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Ayn Rand's alter ego-the ultimate capitalist scientist. Not Tesla
>Tesla is closer to Ayn's mad scientist with the death ray near the
>end of Atlas shrugged.
>He could not manage money. He let Westinghouse's bankers
>steal his royalties, and got screwed into a corner by JP Morgan.
>He also didn't exist in a time when every teenager has his own
>Saturday night special.
> ----------
>From: Remi Cornwall
>To: Scudder,Henry J
>Subject: Who is john Galt, brother...?
>Date: Monday, March 24, 1997 10:08AM

I believe the conclusion that some people have made regarding the
connection between Tesla and John Galt was with respect to the portion of
the novel discussing Galt's "Motor."

Rand had been judged to be a provocative philosopher and novelist.  While I
would generally, epistemologically classify her as an "Aristotelean," I
prefer the epistemological approach taken by Dr. Andrew Galambos --- whom I
would regard as an "Archimedean."

Evan Soule'
josephnewman earthlink.net


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 15:15:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA04033; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:38:56 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:38:56 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b04af5cb319a573 [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:40:40 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Charged particles in magnetic fields
Resent-Message-ID: <"LNvoS.0.x-.-9mDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5296
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>When a charged particle enters a magnetic field it usually follows a
>helical path. It would "appear" that angular momentum has "come from
>nowhere". However the law of conservation on angular momentum teaches us
>that this is not possible. Should I therefore assume that an equal yet
>opposite amount of angular momentum is transferred to the source of the
>magnetic field,

Yes.  Or to the magnetic field itself, if it is aart of an EM wave.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 15:45:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA11825; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:23:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:23:46 -0800
Message-Id: <3335CE8F.426 verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:45:03 +0300
From: Hamdi Ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
Organization: Orchestra
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b2 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Longitudinal magnetic component of EM
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"tI0Sl2.0.hu2.1qmDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5299
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

 Hi,

This is my first letter to vortex,  please excuse format/formal issues.

May these papers are the theories that just we looking for:

hep-th/9609144 Essay on the Non-Maxwellian Theories of Electromagnetism
- Dvoeglazov, V V

hep-th/9608038 Convection displacement current and alternative form of
Maxwell-Lorentz equations - Chubykalo, A E; Smirnov-Rueda, R

hep-th/9605093 The phase free, longitudinal, magnetic component of
vacuum electromagnetism - Chubykalo, A E; Evans, M W ; Smirnov-Rueda, R

I think that the last one is starting from the case of the moving charge
in a magnetical field, and develop new electromagnetic theory capable to
explain the phenomenon that we currently discuss.

Below, is the beginning part of the paper (hep-th/9605093)

Abstract
A charge q moving in a reference laboratory system with constant
velocity V in the X-axis produces in the Z-axis a longitudinal, phase
free, vacuum magnetic field which is identified as the radiated B(3)
field of Evans, Vigier and others.

Several inferences have converged recently on the renewed conclusion
that vacuum electromagnetism is three dimensional, not transverse as in
the received view. The problem of longitudinal electromagnetic field
components in vacuo has been put forward by Majorana [1], Dirac [2],
Oppenheimer [3] and Wigner [4], who inferred a discrete phase free
variable, the spin. Much later, ``acausal" fields of this type were
given independently by Gianetto [5] and by Ahluwalia and Ernst [6]. The
relativistic, three dimensional soliton theory of Hunter and Wadlinger
[7] implies the same conclusion, supported empirically. Other
empirically supported theories that give longitudinal fields in vacuo
include those of Recami et al. [8] and Rodrigues et al. [9]. Meszaros et
al. [10] have produced a thermodynamically based theory leading to the
same result, whose ramifications have also been developed by Lehnardt
[11]. Dvoeglazov [12] has reviewed circa 150 papers which infer
non-Maxwellian properties in vacuo. Dvoeglazov et al. [13] have
discussed inconsistencies between the Joos-Weinberg and Maxwell
equations. A substantial work by Chubykalo and Smirnov-Rueda [14]
removes several well-known inconsistencies in classical electrodynamics
by invoking simultaneously transverse and longitudinal components in
vacuo. Munera and Guzman [15] in three recent papers, have arrived at
the existence of longitudinal components and the magnetic scalar
potential using a rigorous re-examination of the Lorentz condition.
Finally, the theory of the B(3) field and of the B cyclic equations has
been presented in several recent monographs [16] which develop the
subject systematically to show that in general, longitudinal solutions
are linked to transverse counterparts by a new equivalence principle. In
this Letter it is shown that the theory of Chubykalo and Smirnov-Rueda
[14] leads directly to the B(3) field of Evans, Vigier and others [16].
These two lines of thought converge on the same conclusion.
....

I am still studying this theory to figure out the character of the
longitudinal part of the EM.

Best Regards,

Hamdi Ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 15:57:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA07865; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:45:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:45:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703242344.SAA04114 mail.enter.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chronos mailman.enter.net>
From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos enter.net>
Organization: Applied Science Associates
To: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:52:21 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Feynman EM Carousel Paradox
Reply-to: chronos enter.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199703241913.LAA00538 shell.skylink.net>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"cQ7fc1.0.nw1.48nDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5300
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On 24 Mar 97 at 11:13, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote:
From:          Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>

> Robert Flower writes:
> > Ref. 2 shows how the EM field can contain hidden LINEAR momentum,
> > along with hidden angular momentum (which was the point of
> > Feynman's carousel.)  
> 
> Yes. Assuming field theory is reasonable to begin with, we can
> mathematically show that the EM field can and must contain momentum.
> Still, inquiring minds might wish to know where this momentum
> actually is -- somewhere out there in the vacuum? The sentence
> quoted above might be better put without use of the word "how".


True enough. The equations of classical EM say nothing about HOW
momentum and energy is stored or transmitted by the EM field, or
even what the EM field really is.  

Somewhere in Feynman's Lectures, he says that, when talking about the
classical EM field, his mind's eye sees a mental picture of flux
lines running around a la Faraday, even though these flux lines
don't really exist "out there."

I think he recommends giving up trying to make visual pictures of the
EM field, and instead try to understand the equations as completely
as possible. Oddly enough, this approach led him to develop the
Feynman diagrams -- which were just a visualization aid at first, but
soon took off on their own as pictures of the virtual-photon flux --
whatever that really is.

I suppose we can't avoid using mental pictures to talk about
invisible things.


-- Bob Flower

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 16:10:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA09149; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:55:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:55:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970324235408.008fd904 freeway.net>
X-Sender: estrojny freeway.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:54:08 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Edwin Strojny <estrojny freeway.net>
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil
Resent-Message-ID: <"D26zt1.0.tE2.5InDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5301
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:44 PM 3/24/97 EST, Jed wrote:
>To: Vortex
>
the ice man was out of business. When Dow Chemical or GE sells industrial oil
>synthesizers, the few remaining oil companies will lose the other 20% of their
>market.
>
>- Jed
>
Mobil Oil has a process for synthesizing gasoline from methanol.  I believe
two plants have been built and are operating in New Zealand.

Methanol can be synthesized from carbon dioxide and hydrogen over a special
copper catalyst.  Acetic acid can be synthesized from methanol and carbon
monoxide (Monsanto).
It has been shown that succinic acid can be synthesized from acetic acid.
Ammonia, a basic building block, is made from nitrogen and hydrogen.  These
basic chemicals can be transformed into many different chemicals.

Ed  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 16:49:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA18100; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:06:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:06:37 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530502af5cc3b28d38 [199.165.120.32]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:09:57 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"30Uno2.0.fQ4.ASnDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5302
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 1:00 PM 3/24/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>Number crunching (my favorite pastime) I conclude that there
>are only two places where a light electron can orbit:
>
>1, Out near the classical Bohr orbit (Ro) where the unit is
>   not very relativistic.
>
>2, At a radius equal to the classical radius of the electron
>   2.81E-15 meters which is where the centripital and electrostatic
>   forces are balanced when the gamma is equal to the ratio of the
>   electron mass to the light particle mass.
>
>You are a hard taskmaster Horace.   :-)

Just interested.

>
>Regards,     Frederick

This is reminiscent of two things. One is Ilio Conte's theory of the
neutron as p + e, and also of some discussion I read somewhere about a
quantum state of the hydrogen atom for n=0. In this state the electron does
not orbit but simply oscillates back and forth through the nucleus in a
straight line. The light electron would be extrememly relativistic in this
mode of existence. It seems like it would also radiate, but it seems like
ordinary electrons should radiate. However, Puhoff's ZPE theory accounts
for the lack of radiation due to ZPE pressure on ordinary electron
orbitals. It seems like a lepton in an n=0 back and forth "orbital" would
not be subject ZPE force and should radiate. However, if it radiates, it
should slow to zero relative to the nucleus. It it does so its de Broglie
wavelenghth should increase way beyond the boundaries of the atom, freeing
it from any strong binding to the nucleus, and creating a fuzzy
probablistic quantum waveform, and the ability for the resulting "atom" to
be easily ionized.  All very paradoxical.

Just food for thought.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 17:02:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA24875; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:46:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:46:33 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Momentum transfer
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:46:07 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33402dc1.33682537 mail.netspace.net.au>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ww9wA3.0.V46.c1oDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5303
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In an electric motor, there is a momentum (or angular momentum if it's a
rotary motor) transfer between armature and stator. This momentum is
transferred via the magnetic field. 
Photons also transfer momentum by collision.
Yet for the same amount of energy transfer, the momentum transfer of the
former is vastly greater than that of the latter, while both forms of
momentum transfer depend upon electromagnetic fields.
Why the difference? Or is it the difference between a "magnetic" field
alone, and an "electromagnetic" field? And if so why is there such a
difference?
I realise that this is a bit of a wishy-washy question, but would
appreciate anyone willing to have a go at it.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 17:24:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA28870; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:13:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:13:05 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:11:13 +0000
Message-ID: <19970325011110.AAA13821 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"u6DV82.0.w27.VQoDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5304
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 11:54 PM 3/24/97 +0000, Ed Strojny wrote:
>At 01:44 PM 3/24/97 EST, Jed wrote:
>>To: Vortex
>>
>the ice man was out of business. When Dow Chemical or GE sells industrial oil
>>synthesizers, the few remaining oil companies will lose the other 20% of their
>>market.
>>
>>- Jed
>>
>Mobil Oil has a process for synthesizing gasoline from methanol.  I believe
>two plants have been built and are operating in New Zealand.
>
>Methanol can be synthesized from carbon dioxide and hydrogen over a special
>copper catalyst.  Acetic acid can be synthesized from methanol and carbon
>monoxide (Monsanto).
>It has been shown that succinic acid can be synthesized from acetic acid.
>Ammonia, a basic building block, is made from nitrogen and hydrogen.  These
>basic chemicals can be transformed into many different chemicals.
>
>Ed  
>
"Milking" the atmosphere for CO2 isn't as impractical as John Steck
implied. At 350 ppm there are 9.5E21 CO2 molecules per cubic meter at
any given time with a light breeze.

As stated in an earlier post CaCO3 + heat = CaO + CO2.
With an open pond, and a circulating pump running sprinklers
that are making water droplets about 2 mm in diameter a surface
area of about 3E3 square meters/meter^3 is collecting about 58 kg of 
CO2/second. This puts the CO2 from the atmosphere back on the Ca(OH)2
Ca(OH)2 + CO2 = Ca++ & 2 HCO3-, which can be air dried and thermally
recycled.

Bacteria can metabolate CO2 and hydrogen; 2 CO2 + 4 H2 = CH3-CO-OH
(acetic acid or vinegar)+ 2 H2O. Decarboxylase enzymes or thermal
processes can turn the acetic acid into about any fuel form or
hydrocarbon feedstock desired.

With about a hectare of pond one could probably get a few thousand 
tonnes (more or less) of synthetic fuels or hydrocarbons per day 
if you had an inexpensive energy source.

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 17:44:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA31265; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:28:47 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:28:47 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970325012629.006792bc world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:26:29 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: ISO
Resent-Message-ID: <"N9mPz3.0.Qe7.DfoDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5306
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


  JET Energy Technology is looking for an individual 
who would like to, and can optimally and actively contribute
to our efforts.   

  JET Energy Technology has confirmed the achievement and
semiquantitative measurement of low level 
excess energy in samples supplied to us others, and have
developed some systems which are even more promising.

  The JET Energy Technology web site is located at 
http://world.std.com/~mica/jet.html
and includes actual data from one run there.
 The output on the web page shows excess enthalpy in nickel
using the JET Energy Technology Thermal Spectroscopic
system.  It also demonstrates the impact of 
some of the hardware and software that we are
preparing to make available in late 1997. 

  If interested, please contact me for more information.

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 17:57:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA31207; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:28:29 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:28:29 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970325012618.007069b4 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:26:18 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Valid Demo
Resent-Message-ID: <"XSWz-1.0.Xd7.yeoDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5305
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


  There is a lot of talk here about demos.  Here is the
JET Energy Technology update.

  At JET Energy Technology, we have worked toward developing
a series of demo, and research, bays, some of which have been 
examined on a select basis by certain very knowledgeable individuals.
   Furthermore, we have published some of our data in Fusion Technology,
and elsewhere.

  JET Energy Technology has confirmed the achievement and
semiquantitative measurement of low level 
excess energy in samples supplied to us others, and have
developed some systems which are even more promising.

  The JET Energy Technology web site is located at 
http://world.std.com/~mica/jet.html
and includes actual data from one run there.

 The output on the web page shows excess enthalpy in nickel
using the JET Energy Technology Thermal Spectroscopic
system.  It also demonstrates the impact of 
some of the hardware and software that we are
preparing to make available in late 1997. 

  This equipment has significantly helped
the development of our own cf systems, 
and the software may be applicable to
other purported o/u systems.

 JET Energy Technology has the equipment 
to accurately test, select other electrodes systems
and is continuing investigational, and development, efforts.

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 13:48:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA19546; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:53:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:53:35 -0800
Date: 24 Mar 97 15:46:23 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: BlindCopyReceiver:;
Subject: Valid Demo
Message-ID: <970324204623_72240.1256_EHB91-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"zkFGZ1.0.En4.DdkDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5289
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A

To: Vortex; Ed Wall >INTERNET:ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net

Ed Wall writes:

     If there is anything that seriously undermines the credibility of OU
     claims, as many believe, it is the ongoing lack of a commercialized
     demo.

I agree 100%. I have written about this extensively here and in Infinite
Energy.


     A typical thing people think when faced with deciding if the claims can
     be true is, "If it were true, there are lots of really smart people who
     would tell us about it.  Besides, if all routes of information were
     distorted somehow, at least the free market will ferret out anything of
     value, so I'll wait and see what happens. "  

I believe this is how typical people think. I would think this way myself, if
I had not taken the trouble to investigate CF claims carefully, from original
source materials.


     What if the assumptions of the Efficient Market Hypothesis do not apply?

It may not apply in this case. History is full of examples of technology,
products and companies that went off the track for reasons that cannot be
explained by economics alone. Culture, politics, wars, emotions and accidents
can overcome pure market forces. Without the stimulus of WWII, there is no
telling when fission, computers or jet engines might have been invented.


     If the scientific community does not provide for whatever reason a
     public endorsement, venture capitalists are on very shaky ground, even
     for them.

If I were a venture capitalist and I saw the behavior of CF scientists at
CETI, E-Quest, U. Osaka (Arata), BlackLight, Labofex and elsewhere, I would
run for the nearest exit. These people are all -- without exception -- their
own worst enemies. They drive away investment. Not only do they fail to
provide a reason for public endorsement, they *invite* the public and the
scientific establishment to attack them. They act as if they have nothing of
value. As I showed in my recent articles in Infinite Energy, scientists have
long been prone to act this way. Some of the best in history, including
Harrison and the Wrights, fell into the same self-destructive habits. It seems
to be an occupational hazard.


     The thinking seems to be that a demo must do some really
     paradigm-shaking kinda action to convince lots of people at once.  That
     if it doesn't play well to 10 seconds of CNN coverage, there can be no
     paradigm shifting effect.

Quite right. That is the thinking, and it is nonsense. There is no need to
become an overnight media sensation. On the other hand, a well thought-out
public relations campaign is essential to a products, ideas, political
movements, and anything else in society. Without publicity in the mass media,
the technology will die, because venture capitalists, investors and other
scientists are ordinary folks who read the newspapers just like everyone else.

Incredibly as it may seem, the fact is that most CF scientists fight tooth and
nail to *prevent* any demonstration. They try to prevent news on CNN or
anywhere else! In the closing ceremony at ICCF6, the organizers *bragged*
about the fact that no members of the press attended, and the audience
applauded! To me, it was appalling. Sickening.


     But wait, can someone please state why the E-Quest ultrasonic cavitation
     device is not a thoroughly convincing demo?  And if it does what Tom
     Benson (IE#1) wrote it does, why aren't lots of labs replicating such a
     convincing DEMO?

Because E-Quest is trying to keep the device secret. E-Quest is working to
prevent demos. They think this is good for their business prospects. I gather
they are afraid someone will steal the idea. Whatever the reason, I think this
policy suicidal. To me, it is as if Bill Gates had written his BASIC for the
Altair computer and then refused to show it or sell it for five years. Gates
is a businessman, and any businessman knows that you must sell what you have
as quickly as possible, to as many customers as you can find. Positive Cash
Flow is the Holy Grail of business. Nothing else matters even one-tenth as
much.


     The fact that there is no public knowledge of this device is
     unacceptable.

Yes, but it is deliberate. It is E-Quest's policy, and that is true of all of
the other CF devices. In every case, the scientists themselves are to blame
for the problems they find themselves in. They complain mightily that they get
no respect and no funding. They whine and moan about how unfair it is. But
when I ask them to sell me a machine they refuse to it, and when I arrange
free publicity on ABC they get angry with me, and they say I am interfering
with their business. I am in a way, but any sane businessman would pay me a
hundred thousand dollars for that kind of favor.


     "Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
     research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is
     the very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their
     professional endeavor." - Correas

     Are the Correas correct?

No, they are flat out wrong. They are silly. Established scientific research
is not committed to any specific dogmas. It is committed to money (or
"funding" as they call it). Scientists, being human beings, will believe
whatever you pay them to believe. You pay the piper, you call the tune. If we
had CF demos, we would have CF sales. If we had sales, we would have income.
With income, we would pay scientists, and they would suddenly find a million
reasons to believe the CF results they have been ignoring for years.  Not only
that, they would say that Pons and Fleischmann are geniuses. It works the same
way in the computer business, Hollywood, and everywhere else. Have you ever
seen an Academy Awards go to a worthwhile artistic movie that did not do well
at the box office? Do computer conferences and newspapers feature Movers and
Shakers like Bill Gates, or do they focus on the people who actually invent
the stuff, like Niklaus Wirth? After you make a pot of money, everyone agrees
you are a genius and everyone believes whatever you say. Science is done by
people, and people are driven by emotion, greed and irrationality, whether
they do science, show business or used-car sales. Used-car salesmen are happy
to admit that, whereas scientists suffer from the dangerous delusion that they
are objective truth seeking machines. This leaves them wide open to deception
by others and by themselves. Science is like a savings bank run on the honor
system, where the managers leave piles of cash on a table in the lobby to let
the customers sort it out themselves. Because they refuse to recognize their
own jealousy, greed, subjective emotions and other human failings, the
scientists let these emotions rule their actions.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 18:27:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05849; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:14:32 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:14:32 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:13:45 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970324211323_1151385522 emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, 72240.1256@compuserve.com
Subject: How about this Jed?
Resent-Message-ID: <"aFhZ-1.0.JR1.6KpDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5307
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In "Frontiers of Science" a Saturday supplement to the many news papers June
14 1969 an article appeared, "Synthetic food - edible proteens made"  food
bars were made from inorganic material.  The problem, energy intensive and
didn't taste good..  That's better than synthetic oil and it was done 30
years ago.

Frank Znidarsic

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 18:34:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA06843; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:19:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:19:48 -0800
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:19:37 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Valid Demo
In-Reply-To: <970324204623_72240.1256_EHB91-1 CompuServe.COM>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970324181415.7377C-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"5kVEM2.0.ng1.2PpDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5308
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On 24 Mar 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Because they refuse to recognize their
> own jealousy, greed, subjective emotions and other human failings, the
> scientists let these emotions rule their actions.

Bravo!  Science would soon be different if the majority of researchers
could be persuaded to print out the above sentence in 24pt font and tape
it to the wall in front of their desks.  

I'm considering having it tatooed on my forarm.  What's good for the
goose...


.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 19:19:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13947; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:54:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:54:05 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:50:02 +0000
Message-ID: <19970325025000.AAA5263 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"ufmMz1.0.rP3.BvpDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5309
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 00:09:57, 25 Mar 97, Horace Heffner wrote:

>
>This is reminiscent of two things. One is Ilio Conte's theory of
>the neutron as p + e.
>
>All very paradoxial.
>
>Just food for thought.
>
That it is. <g>

The rest mass of the proton is 1.007825 AMU., the electron 0.000545 AMU.
As a combined unit about 1.00837 AMU. The neutron weighing in at
1.008665 AMU would mean a mass deficiency of 0.276 MeV, plus the energy
donated to the light electron and necessary energy for the antineutrino 
created when the light electron is absorbed, perhaps?

Some ZPE energy borrowed from the vacuum,Perhaps? Or, just some energy
that 1/1836th of the proton mass can donate?   :-)

Regards:       Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 19:39:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA14977; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:59:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:59:04 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b00af5cefac64e0 [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:00:32 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
Resent-Message-ID: <"XBo903.0.wf3.szpDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5310
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


>Epitaxy wrote:
>
>I have once performed an experiment where a Bismuth sheet was suspended
>vertically from a spring weight scale between 2 horizontal NIB Permanent
>Magnets (opposing, just like the wires in your pictures).  When the bismuth
>sheet was exactly in the middle between the 2 magnets I have repeatedly
>observed a 15% weight reduction.[snip]

I saw your gif.

Bismuth is the most diamagnetic of all metals.  I think you have just
demonstrated diamagnetism.

Michael J. Schaffer
PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 20:05:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA08232; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:51:48 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:51:48 -0800 (PST)
Date: 24 Mar 97 22:49:58 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Synthesizing oil, and knowledge
Message-ID: <970325034957_72240.1256_EHB126-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"JSEHz2.0.P02.HlqDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5312
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Vortex is astounding sometimes. It really does demonstrate the power of
constructive e-mail discussions. I know nothing about synthesizing oil, but I
dropped a few remarks here saying I've heard it is feasible. The next thing
you know, Edwin Strojny tells us that it has already been done, and explains
how:

     Mobil Oil has a process for synthesizing gasoline from methanol.  I
     believe two plants have been built and are operating in New Zealand.

     Methanol can be synthesized from carbon dioxide and hydrogen over a
     special copper catalyst.  Acetic acid can be synthesized from methanol
     and carbon monoxide (Monsanto). . . .

And Fred Sparber reminds us that plants have been successfully harvesting CO2
for billions of years:

     "Milking" the atmosphere for CO2 isn't as impractical as John Steck
     implied. At 350 ppm there are 9.5E21 CO2 molecules per cubic meter at
     any given time with a light breeze. . . . Bacteria can metabolate CO2
     and hydrogen; 2 CO2 + 4 H2 = CH3-CO-OH (acetic acid or vinegar)+ 2 H2O.
     . . . With about a hectare of pond one could probably get a few thousand
     tonnes (more or less) of synthetic fuels or hydrocarbons per day if you
     had an inexpensive energy source.

Think about this, folks. Those oil executives who told Hal they would welcome
zero-cost energy were sincere. I am sure they believe that, just I know the
Data General people sincerely thought that by putting a microcomputer in the
MV8000, they were staying on the cutting edge of micro technology, so they had
nothing to fear from Radio Shack or Apple. I expect those oil execs personally
know far more about the chemistry, refining and synthesis of petrochemicals
than any reader of his forum. Maybe more than all of us combined. But we have
an edge: we have thought the matter through. We know about other things. We
have a different perspective. In a half dozen e-mail messages we have spelled
out how and why they are wrong, and why they have everything to fear from CF.
In the long run, I really do not see how they can survive. It it occured to me
that oil might be profitably synthesized with CF -- I, who know nothing about
the industry -- it will occur to about million product managers at industrial
and chemical companies.

When people would learn to behave themselves, the Internet will become a
fantastic learning tool.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 24 20:13:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA20930; Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:38:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:38:33 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC388A.72EE3F70 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Momentum transfer
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 19:34:38 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC388A.738B90E0"
Resent-Message-ID: <"TSMhb2.0.y65.tYqDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5311
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC388A.738B90E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good question. (read: "I can't answer that").
Seems like we think of electromagnetics and magnetism very differently. =
We say that the photons of an electromagnetic field radiate, but a =
magnetic field seems to include the notion of circulation, returning to =
its source (talk to your local martial arts guru about the difference in =
momentum/energy transfer a circulating energy source can make! <g>). =
Photons go from source to destination but we don't expect them to come =
back, as we do with magnetism.=20
I'm tempted to say that the reason for the difference in magnitude of =
effect you cite is "because they're different". As you said, photons =
transfer momentum by collision (of a very low-mass object). I don't =
think that's what's happening with the magnetic field interactions.

Dan Quickert

----------
From: 	Robin van Spaandonk
Sent: 	Monday, March 24, 1997 5:46 PM
To: 	vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: 	Momentum transfer

In an electric motor, there is a momentum (or angular momentum if it's a
rotary motor) transfer between armature and stator. This momentum is
transferred via the magnetic field.=20
Photons also transfer momentum by collision.
Yet for the same amount of energy transfer, the momentum transfer of the
former is vastly greater than that of the latter, while both forms of
momentum transfer depend upon electromagnetic fields.
Why the difference? Or is it the difference between a "magnetic" field
alone, and an "electromagnetic" field? And if so why is there such a
difference?
I realise that this is a bit of a wishy-washy question, but would
appreciate anyone willing to have a go at it.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on=20
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*



------ =_NextPart_000_01BC388A.738B90E0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC388A.738B90E0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 01:22:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA25461; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:15:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:15:14 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af5d1c99449b [199.165.120.32]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:18:57 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"-uJdg1.0.lD6.GcuDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5313
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

[snip]
>The rest mass of the proton is 1.007825 AMU., the electron 0.000545 AMU.
>As a combined unit about 1.00837 AMU. The neutron weighing in at
>1.008665 AMU would mean a mass deficiency of 0.276 MeV, plus the energy
>donated to the light electron and necessary energy for the antineutrino
>created when the light electron is absorbed, perhaps?
>
>Some ZPE energy borrowed from the vacuum,Perhaps? Or, just some energy
>that 1/1836th of the proton mass can donate?   :-)
>
>Regards:       Frederick

Conte's theory involved no neutrinos. Excess energy had to be supplied by
the initial KE of the electron.

If I recall correctly Elio Conte's theory can be found on John Logjan's
home page:

<http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan>

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 02:04:35 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA06988; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:56:00 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:56:00 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3337A10A.CA5 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:55:30 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
CC: little eden.com
Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils & Bismuth
References: <v02140b00af5cefac64e0 [198.133.146.230]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"Dd2w61.0.3j1.k4wDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5314
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Michael Schaffer wrote:

 [snip]

> Bismuth is the most diamagnetic of all metals.  I think you have just
> demonstrated diamagnetism.

Sounds odd to me that a pair of magnets mounted with their poles
horizontally against the vertical plate between them would still produce
a 15% weight loss - actually *any* weight loss with the magnets in the
high position near the top of the plate. The plate would probably try to
escape the field by moving downward, creating an apparent weight gain
perhaps even if the poles of the magnets were a bit off horizontal and
pointed slightly upward. We're talking about 15% here too, not 1% or 2%.
Something's wrong with this picture, and I don't think it's just
diamagnetism.

Can you really be sure he has just demonstrated diamagnetism? I'm not
clear enough on all the details here to be confident of anything yet.
But if I were guessing, I'd say it sounds like either gross error of
some sort, or something remarkable.

Scott Little said he has a piece of bismuth hanging in the lab there
somewhere, if I recall.  Scott, if you've got a few minutes to spare and
it's still around, could you hang it from a scale and hold a couple of
strong NIBs up on either side of it and see what happens? Inquiring
minds want to know.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 02:04:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA07113; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:56:57 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:56:57 -0800 (PST)
Date: 25 Mar 97 04:54:53 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil, and knowledge
Message-ID: <970325095453_100060.173_JHB120-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"19tfT3.0.1l1.c5wDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5315
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed,

>> When people would learn to behave themselves, the Internet will become a
fantastic learning tool.

- Jed <<

Hear hear -  Vortex is a kind of "think tank", and because personal criticism is
dis-allowed it runs like a good multi-discipline brainstorming session

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 05:04:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA14489; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:56:11 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:56:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970325125431.008ebe28 freeway.net>
X-Sender: estrojny freeway.net (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:54:31 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Edwin Strojny <estrojny freeway.net>
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil, and knowledge
Resent-Message-ID: <"suNz_.0.IY3.ejyDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5316
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

A favorite exam question by the professors in organic chemistry in the
1950's was: Using coal, water and air as your raw materials, how would you
synthesize X?

Ed Strojny

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 06:08:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA17126; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:59:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:59:27 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af5d83eda4b1 [199.237.131.246]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:03:14 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"Fz0GD2.0.WB4.-ezDp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5317
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 6:56 PM 3/23/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
> Mills is taking the ground state Bohr radius (Ro) = 5.3E-11 meters
>and instead of the quantized orbits n^2*Ro he is using Ro/n^2 thus
>instead of the energy V = q/4(pi)*eo*R which is 27.2 ev at Ro, but,
>the kinetic energy of the orbit is 27.2/2 = 13.6 ev ie., the ionization energy
>of hydrogen. So instead of orbit #2, 13.6/4 ev = 3.4 ev
>and orbit #3, 13.6/9 ev = 1.5 ev and so on
>he gets 13.6*4 = 54.4 ev, 13.6*9 = 122.4 ev, 13.6*16 = 217.6 ev etc.,
>as the orbits decrease in size, ie., V increases.
>
>You can play the same game with the lights at relativistic energies
>Me*v^2/R = q^2/4(pi)*eo*R^2 and V = q/4(pi)*eo*R for the regular electron
>and Mo*gamma*v^2/R for the lights. you can use a shortcut to find gamma
>the gamma is 2 at a voltage equal to the rest energy Eo in ev and v is 0.87c.
>
>At a gamma of 7*Eo v is .99c, at gamma 70*Eo v is 99.99 c
>at 700*Eo v = 99.99 99 c  etc.
>

Note that in the prior calculations, if the quantum state n is carried
through we get:

(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h)(n))

(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul

(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2

(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec

(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec)(n))

(15)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(1/n)

If a is the fine structure constant, appx. 1/137, note that in ground state:

(21)   v = ca.

If fractional values of n are allowed, i.e. n=(1/(N)), N integer, then we have:

(22)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(N) = Nca

Thus the maximum value for N is 137 and the maximum orbital velocity is:

(23)   v = (c)(137a)

This sets the limits on R, gamma, and m.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 06:11:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA18634; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:02:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:01:25 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970325090125_-2106454992 emout06.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"xkcpj2.0.4Z4.XhzDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5319
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On March 24, Robin van Spaandonk posted that 

"the "hardest" photo-electric x-rays that you can get
from the oxygen in water are about 500 eV. I believe this also qualifies as
EUV."

500 eV is considered to be well beyond the extreme ultraviolet (EUV) in any
field that I know about.  Do you know of a field that considers 500 eV
photons to be in the EUV?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 06:14:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA18620; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:02:09 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 06:02:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:01:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970325090121_1716120218 emout20.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"ieoIW.0.rY4.ThzDp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5318
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On March 23, Mitchell Swartz said that EUV radiation wouldn't appear to be
the source of the XSH observed in CF cells because "Such radiation would
remove the energy."

EUV radiation is quickly absorbed by water.  That heats the water in
electrolytic CF cells, which results in the observation of XSH.

Mitch also observed that since "energy involved in these reactions involving
loaded metals is considerable, and beyond the chemical range, nuclear
reactions 
(fusion or fission) are usually considered to be the SOURCE
of the energy, and therefore what the XSH in CF cells is probably due to."

I agree that the energy released in CF cells is considerable and beyond the
range of standard chemistry, but Mills is proposing new chemistry, which
would account for the XSH observed.

I'm well aware that nuclear reactions are usually considered by most people
in the field of CF to be the source of the XSH.  Nuclear reactions have been
the favorite explanation for the XSH from day one.  Like most other people
who thought that the XSH was real, I too thought that a nuclear reaction was
the most likely explanation for it.  But as so often happens, the first guess
turned out to be wrong.

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 07:36:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA30696; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:23:08 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:23:08 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970325152058.0071b980 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:20:58 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"6enE8.0.YV7.Qt-Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5320
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 09:01 AM 3/25/97 -0500, Tom wrote:
>On March 23, Mitchell Swartz said that EUV radiation wouldn't appear to be
>the source of the XSH observed in CF cells because "Such radiation would
>remove the energy."
>
>EUV radiation is quickly absorbed by water.  That heats the water in
>electrolytic CF cells, which results in the observation of XSH.
>

  Tom has correctly noted that EUV may interact with the medium.
The fact that the water would be a good absorber
(and thereby a good emitter presumably) doesnt change the mathematics.
Gauss' theorem involves an entire surface volume, and over that
surface integral (dotted with the surface unit vector), the EUV is
exiting yielding a net loss IMHO.

    ================================================


>Mitch also observed that since "energy involved in these reactions involving
>loaded metals is considerable, and beyond the chemical range, nuclear
>reactions 
>(fusion or fission) are usually considered to be the SOURCE
>of the energy, and therefore what the XSH in CF cells is probably due to."
>
>I agree that the energy released in CF cells is considerable and beyond the
>range of standard chemistry, but Mills is proposing new chemistry, which
>would account for the XSH observed.
>

  True and his mathematics apppears ok, too.  But a mathematics
equation does not necessarily imply what actually happens. 

    ================================================


>I'm well aware that nuclear reactions are usually considered by most people
>in the field of CF to be the source of the XSH.  Nuclear reactions have been
>the favorite explanation for the XSH from day one.  Like most other people
>who thought that the XSH was real, I too thought that a nuclear reaction was
>the most likely explanation for it.  But as so often happens, the first guess
>turned out to be wrong.
>
>Tom Stolper

  IMHO the guess turned out to be right.  Correlated helium production with
excess heat is (again) the featured set of articles in this issue (volume 5
number 2)
of the COLD FUSION TIMES.  Not only is this ash production correlated, but
in some
cases, normalized with another inert gas to rule out leakage contamination.

  Helium-4 is a major ash in the Pd-D (fully loaded in an active sample)
system.

  With nickel the case remains open.  Have looked for deuterium production
but need help increasing the sensitivity of the detectors to the material,
while eliminating errors such as separation factor.  In the meantime,
Mills hydrinos and others postulated such ashes ought be collected and 
looked for and many await evidence to convince them. 

   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 07:51:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA27303; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:40:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:40:29 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:40:09 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703251540.JAA04276 natasha.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Bismuth Experiment
Resent-Message-ID: <"Gsw1W1.0.Wg6.g7_Dp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5321
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Michael Schaffer wrote:

>> Bismuth is the most diamagnetic of all metals.  I think you have just
>> demonstrated diamagnetism.

Rick wrote:

>Scott, if you've got a few minutes to spare and
>it's still around, could you hang it from a scale and hold a couple of
>strong NIBs up on either side of it and see what happens?

OK, my Bi sample is a rod .25" dia by 2.3" long.  I hung it oriented
vertically by a thread from my new Ohaus Scout balance which has 0.01g
resolution and a weighing hook for experiments like this.  It weighs 18.10
grams.

I took two 42 MGO Neos left over from an old magnetic bearing project that
are roughly rectangular with a pole face about .3" by 1".  I placed these
into a wooden fork that held them with N poles facing each other with a gap
of about .3".  

With the Bi hanging still, I carefully moved the magnet assy into position
so the magnets were on opposite sides of the Bi.  When I held the magnet
assy towards the bottom of the Bi rod, there was a tendency for the balance
to read 18.09 grams (it fluctuates in the last digit).  When I held the
magnets near the top end of the rod, there was a tendency for the balance to
read 18.11 grams.  In other words, I was apparently observing the
diamagnetic version of the watermelon seed effect...but it was right at the
limit of this balance's capability.

I then took the magnets out of the fork, placed them together so their
fields would add (the way they WANT to go together) and held one pole of
that assy up near the bottom of the rod.  The balance read 18.08 grams, a
clearly discernible reduction.

I then hung the Bi rod in a horizontal orientation by tying the thread to
the center of the rod (it also weighs 18.10 grams in that orientation...:-).
I brought one pole of the Neos up within 1/16" of the relatively broad
horizontal underside of the Bi rod.  The balance read 18.00 grams...an
apparent .55% weight reduction...due almost certainly only to the
diamagnetic force on the Bi rod.

                                               -- Not Levitating In Austin







Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.    http://www.eden.com/~little
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 08:39:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA08877; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:27:57 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:27:57 -0800
Message-ID: <3337FD2A.57ED interlaced.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:28:26 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Momentum transfer
References: <33402dc1.33682537 mail.netspace.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"29a7v.0.ZA2.Bq_Dp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5322
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> In an electric motor, there is a momentum (or angular momentum if it's a
> rotary motor) transfer between armature and stator. This momentum is
> transferred via the magnetic field.
> Photons also transfer momentum by collision.
> Yet for the same amount of energy transfer, the momentum transfer of the
> former is vastly greater than that of the latter, while both forms of
> momentum transfer depend upon electromagnetic fields.
> Why the difference? Or is it the difference between a "magnetic" field
> alone, and an "electromagnetic" field? And if so why is there such a
> difference?
> I realise that this is a bit of a wishy-washy question, but would
> appreciate anyone willing to have a go at it.
> 
Robin, it must all be explained by the fact that when two bodies
interact:

	1. The momentum changes are proportional to the velocity
	   changes.
	2. The kinetic energy changes are proportional to the
	   velocity changes squared.

This is why a photon rocket does not look good - it just takes too much
power (energy/time) to get a given thrust.  (Using FREE photons from
a star with solar sails is another ball game!)

The "kick" you feel from a starting (or stopping) electric motor comes
from a relatively heavy rotor.

As far as I know (which is'nt far) the effect has nothing to do with
the particular force (electric, magnetic, gravitational, etc.) causing
the interaction.

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 08:41:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA02892; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:29:45 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:29:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Test Message
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:28:33 +0000
Message-ID: <19970325162831.AAA19204 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"spRBI3.0.6j.rr_Dp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5323
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

This is a test message. Ignore at your own peril! <g>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 08:57:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA12349; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:46:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:46:25 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil, and knowledge
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:45:34 +0000
Message-ID: <19970325164532.AAA4248 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"H3kTr2.0.p03.W50Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5324
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:54 PM 3/25/97 +0000, Ed Strojny wrote:
>A favorite exam question by the professors in organic chemistry in the
>1950's was: Using coal, water and air as your raw materials, how would you
>synthesize X?
>
>Ed Strojny
>
>
  
  Y?        O..I..C..!    R..U..  Sure Though?     <G>

Regards,  Frederick 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 10:12:15 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA24532; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:53:21 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:53:21 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:51:49 +0000
Message-ID: <19970325175147.AAA3856 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"0_srQ2.0.B_5.E41Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5325
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 02:03 PM 3/25/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>At 6:56 PM 3/23/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>> Mills is taking the ground state Bohr radius (Ro) = 5.3E-11 meters
>>and instead of the quantized orbits n^2*Ro he is using Ro/n^2 thus
>>instead of the energy V = q/4(pi)*eo*R which is 27.2 ev at Ro, but,
>>the kinetic energy of the orbit is 27.2/2 = 13.6 ev ie., the ionization energy
>>of hydrogen. So instead of orbit #2, 13.6/4 ev = 3.4 ev
>>and orbit #3, 13.6/9 ev = 1.5 ev and so on
>>he gets 13.6*4 = 54.4 ev, 13.6*9 = 122.4 ev, 13.6*16 = 217.6 ev etc.,
>>as the orbits decrease in size, ie., V increases.
>>
>>You can play the same game with the lights at relativistic energies
>>Me*v^2/R = q^2/4(pi)*eo*R^2 and V = q/4(pi)*eo*R for the regular electron
>>and Mo*gamma*v^2/R for the lights. you can use a shortcut to find gamma
>>the gamma is 2 at a voltage equal to the rest energy Eo in ev and v is 0.87c.
>>
>>At a gamma of 7*Eo v is .99c, at gamma 70*Eo v is 99.99 c
>>at 700*Eo v = 99.99 99 c  etc.
>>
>
>Note that in the prior calculations, if the quantum state n is carried
>through we get:
>
>(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h)(n))
>
>(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul
>
>(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2
>
>(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec
>
>(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
>            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec)(n))
>
>(15)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(1/n)
>
>If a is the fine structure constant, appx. 1/137, note that in ground state:
>
>(21)   v = ca.
>
>If fractional values of n are allowed, i.e. n=(1/(N)), N integer, then we have:
>
>(22)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(N) = Nca
>
>Thus the maximum value for N is 137 and the maximum orbital velocity is:
>
>(23)   v = (c)(137a)
>
>This sets the limits on R, gamma, and m.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
>
Interestingly, many of the mesons and other particles give a close
fit for an integer N if you apply the equation; N = Wp*alpha/We
where alpha is 0.00729729 Wp is the rest energy of the observed
particle MeV and We is the rest energy of the electron 0.510996 MeV.

For example, the pi meson, 139.596 Mev*0.0729729/0.510996 MeV = 1.9935 
= N and so on for the heavier mesons etc.

Based on this, there seems to be room for speculating that there
should be "light" electron-positron pairs around.

Regards,      Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 11:06:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA17476; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:51:02 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:51:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: hheffner corecom.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v01530500af5dcaa62e1f [199.237.131.228]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:54:36 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER corrections
Resent-Message-ID: <"uQRKW1.0.-G4.Kw1Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5327
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 6:56 PM 3/23/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
> Mills is taking the ground state Bohr radius (Ro) = 5.3E-11 meters
>and instead of the quantized orbits n^2*Ro he is using Ro/n^2 thus
>instead of the energy V = q/4(pi)*eo*R which is 27.2 ev at Ro, but,
>the kinetic energy of the orbit is 27.2/2 = 13.6 ev ie., the ionization energy
>of hydrogen. So instead of orbit #2, 13.6/4 ev = 3.4 ev
>and orbit #3, 13.6/9 ev = 1.5 ev and so on
>he gets 13.6*4 = 54.4 ev, 13.6*9 = 122.4 ev, 13.6*16 = 217.6 ev etc.,
>as the orbits decrease in size, ie., V increases.
>
>You can play the same game with the lights at relativistic energies
>Me*v^2/R = q^2/4(pi)*eo*R^2 and V = q/4(pi)*eo*R for the regular electron
>and Mo*gamma*v^2/R for the lights. you can use a shortcut to find gamma
>the gamma is 2 at a voltage equal to the rest energy Eo in ev and v is 0.87c.
>
>At a gamma of 7*Eo v is .99c, at gamma 70*Eo v is 99.99 c
>at 700*Eo v = 99.99 99 c  etc.
>

Note that in the prior calculations, if the quantum state n is carried
through we get:

(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h)(n))

(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul

(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2

(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec

(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec)(n))

(15)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(1/n)

If a is the fine structure constant inverse, appx. 1/137.035989561, note
that in ground state:

(21)   v = ca.

If fractional values of n are allowed, i.e. n=(1/(N)), N integer, then we have:

(22)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(N) = Nca

Thus the maximum value for N is 137 and the maximum orbital velocity is:

(23)   v = (c)(137a) = (c)(0.999737372)

This sets the limits on R, gamma, and m.

Examining the limits we have:


(16)  m1 = m0/(1-v^2/c^2)^0.5

Or in state n=1/137:

(24)  m1 = m0/[1-(0.999737372)^2]^-0.5

(25)  m1 = m0/[7.87675986x10^-4]^-0.5

(26)  m1 = m0 (35.63085119)

Thus if if we have the hypothesized light of mass m0 = 4.85E-35 kg, we have
also a maximum mass of m1:

(27)  m1 = (4.85E-35 kg) (35.63085119) = 1.728E-33 kg

So applying (5) we see that the minimal r is 135^2/35.63 times as big as
the H ground state Bohr radius.

However, a normal electron in the n=1/137 state would be in a radius of
1/35.63 the normal ground state.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 11:14:32 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA17281; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:49:34 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:49:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <33381D9F.398E worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:46:57 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth Experiment
References: <199703251540.JAA04276 natasha.eden.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"g4p0_2.0.vD4.wu1Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5326
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Scott -

Thanks for trying that out! It does tend to confirm that even for a
small sample of bismuth with a very powerful magnet amost half the size
of the sample, the diamagnetic repulsion only amounts to less than 1% of
its weight. This 15% figure cannot be from diamagnetism then, can it.
But somehow I'm also not surprised that you observed no large weight
losses, you know? I can't imagine what caused those readings on
epitaxy's setup, unless it had something to do with the magnets
interfering with the scale mechanism. Those fields around strong NIBs
have a far larger range of significant effect on things, much much
further than your garden variety refrigerator magnet. When I was playing
with some Pepto Bismol tablets hanging from a thread from a scale with
the samarium cobalt magnets attached, moving a NIB within 15" or so
would cause the rig to swing quite a bit.

As soon as I get some bismuth in the form of a plate or sheet I'll try
Epitaxy's experiment myself, but thanks again for putting this
discussion into perspective with some current benchtop results.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 11:32:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA21746; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:13:46 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:13:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: wharton 128.183.251.148
Message-Id: <v03007800af5dceb7c466 [128.183.200.195]>
In-Reply-To: <970324184427_72240.1256_EHB126-2 CompuServe.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:12:53 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton climate-f.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil
Resent-Message-ID: <"a1i5u3.0.dJ5.dF2Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5328
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Jed Rothwell has a good idea about mining the air for carbon

>concentration of carbon in the air is low, but air is mighty convenient stuff,
>because you don't have to ship it in from Texas or Saudi Arabia. As far as I
>know, at present the only thing we "mine" from the atmosphere is nitrogen, but
>I suppose it might become economical to mine carbon. If it turns out the
>greenhouse effect is real and CO2 is a threat to the ecology, we may be forced
>to set up large scale carbon extraction. We may have to put all that carbon
>back where we found it.

I believe the most effective technique, assuming near zero energy costs,
would be to condense out the carbon from the air.

Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton climate.gsfc.nasa.gov


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 11:40:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA09362; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:24:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:24:37 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703251319.ZM9932 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:19:14 -0600
In-Reply-To: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 CompuServe.COM>
        "Synthesizing oil, and knowledge" (Mar 24,  9:48pm)
References: <970325034957_72240.1256_EHB126-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil, and knowledge
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"xws0S.0.9I2.qP2Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5329
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Edwin Strojny tells us :

>      Mobil Oil has a process for synthesizing gasoline from methanol.  I
>      believe two plants have been built and are operating in New Zealand.
>
>      Methanol can be synthesized from carbon dioxide and hydrogen over a
>      special copper catalyst.  Acetic acid can be synthesized from methanol
>      and carbon monoxide (Monsanto). . . .

Fred Sparber reminds us:

>      "Milking" the atmosphere for CO2 isn't as impractical as John Steck
>      implied. At 350 ppm there are 9.5E21 CO2 molecules per cubic meter at
>      any given time with a light breeze. . . . Bacteria can metabolate CO2
>      and hydrogen; 2 CO2 + 4 H2 = CH3-CO-OH (acetic acid or vinegar)+ 2 H2O.
>      . . . With about a hectare of pond one could probably get a few thousand
>      tonnes (more or less) of synthetic fuels or hydrocarbons per day if you
>      had an inexpensive energy source.

Frank Znidarsic adds:

> In "Frontiers of Science" a Saturday supplement to the many news papers June
> 14 1969 an article appeared, "Synthetic food - edible proteens made"  food
> bars were made from inorganic material.  The problem, energy intensive and
> didn't taste good..  That's better than synthetic oil and it was done 30
> years ago.

And Fred Sparber continues:

> It does make a lot more sense to use the megatons of biomass that are
> considered agricultural wastes that collected the CO2 from the atmosphere
> for chemical feedstocks as opposed to pumping oil out of the
> ground and stopping the "Greenhouse Effect" which if not corrected
> is going to turn this Planet into the "OUTHOUSE EFFECT".


It is my opinion that with all science and technology, the question is not
*can* we do something, but *should* we do something.  I firmly believe there is
a solution to every problem, but not always a good one.  Sure you can harvest
CO2 from the air to produce hydrocarbons or make synthetic food, but why?
 Without a doubt we will most definitely reach situations where cost does not
out weigh benefit, like in New Zealand or with biomass conversion, but the path
of least resistance will always be less expensive, and the prefered route.

I maintain there is no such thing as an inexpensive fuel source.  All true
costs rarely translate directly to the bottom line and are never fully
appreciated until well into any program.  CF, Blacklight, and other o/u devices
may look great up front, but stop for a moment and imagine the multitude of
industries and resources that will be required to manufacture the components or
fuels to take advantage of them.  There is a nasty process, condition, or
disposal issue somewhere along the utilization line.  On the laboratory scale
the downside may be negligable, but ramp up production and suddenly you find
yourself wondering what to do with all those accumulating spent fuel rods.

Just like time, and money, I assert energy utilization will track proportional
to supply.  Even if all the processes for o/u energy production turn out to be
benign, an excess of supply will not create the utopia envisioned.  The oil
industry is it's own example.  In the 1970's there was a perceived supply
shortage.  We had solar power and hydrogen burning Stirling engines and tiny
cars.  Where is all that now?  Intensive successful searches for more crude
brought us full circle.  At the auto show in Chicago this last summer, the
federal 'gas guzzler' tax (levied against vehicles that have poor mpg) was a
*selling* point touted to the public from large banners on many high end sports
cars.  A badge of honor of all things!

Not convinced?  How about computer RAM or hard drives.  Do you know how happy I
was to actually have 4 Meg RAM and a 80 Meg hard drive on a PC not more than 5
years ago?  Now you need 32 Meg RAM and 200-300 Meg of drive space just to run
the OS.   Do you really need it?  Probably not, but factories are now spitting
out SIMs and multi-gigabite drives by the truckload.  Supply is up and
component prices are down so new boxes and programs 'guzzle' these available
resources with vigor.

There will always be exceptions, and consciencious members of our community,
but let us not forget our track record and delude ourselves with platitudes and
visions of sugar plums.  Oil companies have nothing to worry about for a very
long time.  CF, Blacklight, and others are not the enemy, just late to energy
game of a high tech society.  If anything, these new technologies will further
extend the reign of our decomposed ancestors.

Just my rambling overly pragmatic opinions.


-john



-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 11:54:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA25407; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530502af5dd144bc24 [199.237.131.248]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:40:50 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Resent-Message-ID: <"qE78Z.0.uC6.gb2Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5330
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 8:51 AM 3/25/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>Interestingly, many of the mesons and other particles give a close
>fit for an integer N if you apply the equation; N = Wp*alpha/We
>where alpha is 0.00729729 Wp is the rest energy of the observed
>particle MeV and We is the rest energy of the electron 0.510996 MeV.
>
>For example, the pi meson, 139.596 Mev*0.0729729/0.510996 MeV = 1.9935
>= N and so on for the heavier mesons etc.
>
>Based on this, there seems to be room for speculating that there
>should be "light" electron-positron pairs around.
>
>Regards,      Frederick

Yes, this seems like a very good speculation. The question is what kind of
attributes do they have that can be used to generate and detect the
critters? Where can they hide and what can they do? There are also some
things that may preclude or limit their existence or generate paradoxes
that need investigation.

As Frank Stenger points out they must be very large if they have the charge
of an electron because their mass otherwise can not account for the mass of
their own electrostatic fields due to de Broglie wavelength vs field size
limits. This alone may limit the range of velocities at which the light
electrons can exist. Such a restriction could preclude their existence
because all velocitites are relative, so can they both exisit and not exist
based on reference frame? That line of thought needs some further
investigation.

It appears also true they can not hide inside atoms, except maybe in some
strange geometry (n=0) orbital.  If created in the internals of a heavy
atom the light electron could be expected to move to outside orbitals. The
light positron, combining with a K shell electrons, would drift off,
causing various dislocations in so doing. Heavy atoms creating light
electrons from the vacuum should radiate x-rays.

About detection schemes, it seems like the light positron would be easiest
to detect, based upon acceleration.  Positrons would move much faster than
ions. One idea is to prepare a linear flourescent light bulb by bursting
one filiment with a suitable current pulse. Call this the arc end of the
tube.  Place the opposite end of the bulb, the plate end, at a high
negative voltage, but not high enough to cause a cascade in the tube. Then
discharge a capacitor across the open filaments at the arc end of the tube.
Measure the time for the pulse to arrive at the far end of the tube.  If
the capacitor used to generate the arc is negative on one terminal and
ground on the other, then discharging the capacitor should reduce the
voltage between the arc end and the plate. If a surge is generated at the
plate end it should be due to either ions or positrons. (True?) The speed
should tell the difference. It might be this would have to be carried out
in a high vacuum.

The opposite version of the experiment (plate positive) could also be done,
but timing would have to be measured very accurately, to within a few ns,
to compare electron arrival times with light electron arrival times.  This
is very feasible. The problem is then getting the arc end to discharge with
fast enough rise time.  The biggest problem is whether a spark can create
the light electrons or free them from the electrode material or surrounding
gas.

Just more food for thought.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 12:13:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA12698; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:45:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:45:37 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:44:54 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970325144450_-1303649056 emout08.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Momentum transfer
Resent-Message-ID: <"LMX2q.0.J63.Vj2Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5331
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


In a message dated 3/24/97 7:28:08 PM, Robin asked (with regard to the
momentum transferred via radiation versus, e.g., fields in motors:

<<This momentum is
transferred via the magnetic field. 
Photons also transfer momentum by collision.
Yet for the same amount of energy transfer, the momentum transfer of the
former is vastly greater than that of the latter, while both forms of
momentum transfer depend upon electromagnetic fields.
Why the difference? Or is it the difference between a "magnetic" field
alone, and an "electromagnetic" field? And if so why is there such a
difference?>>

EM fields fall into two varieties, the induction fields where the fields are
still tied to their charge sources (e.g., coulomb fields), and the radiation
fields, where the fields have disconnected from their sources to radiate out.
 Momenta transfered by the induction fields (as in motors and generators) are
typically larger because the source charges can still participate in the
reaction forces and momentum transfer, and, in any case for most situations
the induction fields are stronger at close range to their sources than the
radiation fields.

Hal Puthoff


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 13:38:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA10710; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:21:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l mail.eskimo.com
From: Ed Wall <ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: IE #11 ZPE Beat Freq
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:13:54 +0000
Message-ID: <19970324181345.AAC2252 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"O_vbx1.0.Ed2.m74Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5332
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

The patent of Franklin B. Mead takes advantage of a slight difference in
resonant frequency between two proximate objects to produce a beat frequency
low enough, but with high-frequency ZPE power, to be electrically useful.
Dr. Mallove made a comment at the end of the article about implications for
nuclear structures and possibly explaining CF 'miracles' with this.  

Are nuclear structures (atoms, nucleons) of a given element identical (seems
too perfect) and if not, wouldn't they be moving in and out of size
relations that produced really powerful beat frequencies as they are
continuously absorbing and radiating ZPE?  Such frequencies would vary
widely and constitute a background, ubiquitous (undetectable) noise floor of
considerable energy density.  Is this all part of what is predicted by QED?  

Then, is there something about Deuterium in Pd lattice that could stabilize
a size relation giving rise to a beat frequency that resonates with the lattice?

Just a thought,

Ed Wall

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 14:06:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA04825; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:51:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:51:04 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970325214829.0072f8b0 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:48:29 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Cold Fusion Times volume 5, number 2 at printer
Resent-Message-ID: <"_qgtw.0.QA1.7Z4Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5333
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

                        March 25, 1997

  Dear colleagues:

Cold Fusion Times  vol 5 number 2 (Spring 97) is on its way
to the printer, and should be in subscribers hands
shortly next week.

 As always, the COLD FUSION TIMES presents
focused hard-core science and engineering issues,
with detailed material and nuclear science
analysis of developments in the cold fusion field.

  Discussions and a brief survey of some of the content in this issue
include the following:

 - More Quality Confirmations of Cold Fusion including
  Correlated Nuclear Signatures consisting of 
    Linked Heat and Helium Measurements, and 
    Linked low-level Excess Neutron and Heat in Pd Systems
 - Anomalous Heat, Anomalous Isotopic Distributions
 - PATENT WARS: CETI challenges Dr. Fleischmann and Pons
 - More Details on new Cold Fusion movie - "The Saint"
 - Nickel, Palladium, and other metal systems
 - Gas Loading, Solid State, Electrolysis Systems
 - Reports from Japan, Italy, China, DoE, ....
 - Continuing ICCF-6 Reviews
 - More journals you may have missed
 - OP-ED Column
 - Updates on Equipment, Supplies, Consulting Available
 - Practical Information and Reference Vectors
 - "What's Happening", "Material Science and Engineering"
    and more

   The cover page, as always, is available at the
COLD FUSION TIMES web site, located at
   http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
[other references, URLS, on-site papers available,
covers of past issues, and a virtual reality site [CFT-VR site].

  Best wishes.
   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 14:57:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA17832; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:23:31 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:23:31 -0800 (PST)
Date: 25 Mar 97 17:10:46 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Fuel ALREADY cheap, Utopia already here
Message-ID: <970325221045_72240.1256_EHB132-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"d4rhp.0.TM4.V15Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5334
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

John Steck writes:

     I maintain there is no such thing as an inexpensive fuel source.  All
     true costs rarely translate directly to the bottom line and are never
     fully appreciated until well into any program.

This view ignores the last 5000 years of history. Since the invention of fire,
fuel has been getting ever cheaper, and the side effects of its use have been
growing more environmentally benign. People started out burning wood. Before
large scale coal mining, England was nearly deforested to get enough wood for
fuel and ship construction. Coal was much better for the environment than
wood, and in the last 50 years it has been vastly improved with better
pollution control. After coal we went to oil, hydroelectricity and fission,
all which are way ahead of coal in safety and environmental effects. Not only
is fuel far less damaging than it used to be, it is also thousands of times
cheaper.


     CF, Blacklight, and other o/u devices may look great up front, but stop
     for a moment and imagine the multitude of industries and resources that
     will be required to manufacture the components or fuels to take
     advantage of them.

These same industries and resources will have to be constructed and paid for
even if we do *not* use CF or some other o/u devices. Even if we stick with
oil and fission, our present infrastructure of refineries, generators,
factories and machine tools have to be thrown out in 20 to 30 years, because
it will wear out. We rebuild civilization from the ground up every
generation. The only common artifacts that remain in use longer than that are
houses and buildings. Furthermore, in 20 years, our machines will have to be
redesigned from top to bottom with or without o/u. Even automobiles and
dishwashing machines are redesigned to take advantage of things like
microprocessors and new materials.


     There is a nasty process, condition, or disposal issue somewhere along
     the utilization line.

That's one way of looking at it, I guess. On the other hand, there has also
been undeniable, mind-boggling progress and improvement in every generation
since the industrial revolution began. Over the last 25 years in Japan, for
example, the air has become far cleaner than it used to be. The difference is
immediately apparent. You can see Mt. Fuji from places you never could have
back in 1972.


     On the laboratory scale the downside may be negligible, but ramp up
     production and suddenly you find yourself wondering what to do with all
     those accumulating spent fuel rods.

You could scale up the spent fuel rods from most CF experiments a hundred
million times and there would not be enough dangerous material to worry about.
In fact, you would end up with increased value, in precious metals.


     Just like time, and money, I assert energy utilization will track
     proportional to supply.

I hope so! If energy use increases roughly 5 times worldwide, while pollution
falls to a fraction of 1% of today's levels, that will save the lives of
roughly 68,000 children every week.


     Even if all the processes for o/u energy production turn out to be
     benign, an excess of supply will not create the utopia envisioned.

Nothing can create utopia. History has shown that people will always make
trouble for themselves. However, history also shows that every person in the
developed world today lives better than any ancient king would have dreamed
of. We are, for the most part, secure against disease, famine, cold, and heat,
and excessive pain in surgery and death. We are warned well in advance of most
storms. We can talk to anyone in the world at a moment's notice. We can travel
to any spot on the globe in a day or less. We can choose from hundreds of
thousands of books, for free, at libraries and on the Internet. To ancient
people these would be God-like powers. They would be unimaginable! We are
already living in utopia by the standards of earlier ages, we just don't
recognize it. Some of us don't anyway. I have a long memory. I know what
horrors we have escaped, and what progress we have made. We can put most of
our present horrors behind us too, if we only have the will to do it.


     Now you need 32 Meg RAM and 200-300 Meg of drive space just to run the
     OS.   Do you really need it?  Probably not, but factories are now
     spitting out SIMs and multi-gigabite drives by the truckload.  Supply is
     up and component prices are down so new boxes and programs 'guzzle'
     these available resources with vigor.

Here is a wonderful opportunity for you, John! Seriously. Go dig up one of
those old computers and use it for a day or two. Then come back and tell us
how much fun it was trying to deal with itty-bitty screens, wretched slow
performance, and word processing with "secret-handshake" commands. I guarantee
you will see why we love these newer machines. You will appreciate the value
of progress. You will see that people are not fools. Consumers do not throw
their money away on things they don't need. People change out their computers
every 2 years because it pays. The newest stuff is worth every penny. After
all, there is a thriving market for older equipment. Nobody forces you to buy
the new stuff. You have a choice: you can pay $200 for an IBM AT, or $2000 for
Pentium 200. There is a good reason why most people choose the latter.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 15:32:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA17903; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:16:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:16:48 -0800
Message-ID: <33385CBA.797D worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:16:12 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth Experiment
References: <199703251540.JAA04276 natasha.eden.com> <33381D9F.398E@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"VCv6j.0.dN4.Up5Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5335
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

And a couple of other things:

There is a method for measuring the magnetic susceptibility of materials
called the Gouy balance wich takes advantage of the "watermelon seed"
effect. In a mostly horizontal magnetic field between poles where the
field strength at the top and bottom of the rod shaped target sample are
known, the increase or decrease in apparent weight is measured with a
balance, and the susceptibility of the mass in the field is calculated.

Also, that biological levitation method discussed in the article on
biological levitation (frogs, water, etc.) mentions fields of 10T or so,
and the 35MGO NIBs I have are probably about 1.2T at the surface. The
article did mention the levitation of bismuth and tin samples, but
didn't mention the field strength necessary to achieve that. Point is,
with our little permanent magnets, any forces on bismuth due to its
diamagnetism should be, and are according to Scott's *and* Epitaxy's
experiments is, very small. The problem is that large value (15%) weight
loss Epitaxy reports. 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 15:44:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA20531; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:31:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:31:48 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER corrections
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:30:35 +0000
Message-ID: <19970325233033.AAA9795 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"1Pm5F1.0.h05.Y16Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5336
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 06:54 PM 3/25/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:
>At 6:56 PM 3/23/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>[snip]
>> Mills is taking the ground state Bohr radius (Ro) = 5.3E-11 meters
>>and instead of the quantized orbits n^2*Ro he is using Ro/n^2 thus
>>instead of the energy V = q/4(pi)*eo*R which is 27.2 ev at Ro, but,
>>the kinetic energy of the orbit is 27.2/2 = 13.6 ev ie., the ionization energy
>>of hydrogen. So instead of orbit #2, 13.6/4 ev = 3.4 ev
>>and orbit #3, 13.6/9 ev = 1.5 ev and so on
>>he gets 13.6*4 = 54.4 ev, 13.6*9 = 122.4 ev, 13.6*16 = 217.6 ev etc.,
>>as the orbits decrease in size, ie., V increases.
>>
>>You can play the same game with the lights at relativistic energies
>>Me*v^2/R = q^2/4(pi)*eo*R^2 and V = q/4(pi)*eo*R for the regular electron
>>and Mo*gamma*v^2/R for the lights. you can use a shortcut to find gamma
>>the gamma is 2 at a voltage equal to the rest energy Eo in ev and v is 0.87c.
>>
>>At a gamma of 7*Eo v is .99c, at gamma 70*Eo v is 99.99 c
>>at 700*Eo v = 99.99 99 c  etc.
>>
>
>Note that in the prior calculations, if the quantum state n is carried
>through we get:
>
>(10)   v = q^2/(2(e0)(h)(n))
>
>(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul
>
>(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2
>
>(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec
>
>(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
>            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec)(n))
>
>(15)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(1/n)
>
>If a is the fine structure constant inverse, appx. 1/137.035989561, note
>that in ground state:
>
>(21)   v = ca.
>
>If fractional values of n are allowed, i.e. n=(1/(N)), N integer, then we have:
>

Why would you want fractional values of the orbits of the time tested
Bohr model?

When you do a series; 1 + 2 + 3+......n = n(n+1)/2, for n = 137 
= 9,453 . 

For a series for the orbit radius;

n^2, 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2+........137^2 = n(n+1)*(2n+1)/6 = 860,291 
or so. <G>

My nephew set up the first series on a quickie computer program for me
several years ago so we could compare the data to the OSO satellite uv
data from the Sun with the different line series from hydrogen and helium.

I was bird-dogging an idea along the same lines as Randy Mills,
with an interest in the 54.4 to 10 kev. uv-soft x-ray flux from the sun.

We cut it off at n = 60 because after that it was in the "continuous"range.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 16:32:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA01793; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:17:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:17:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Synthesizing oil, and knowledge
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:16:25 +0000
Message-ID: <19970326001623.AAA18516 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"UuSVP2.0.wR.Ei6Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5337
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

 John Steck made some good points relating to pragmatism
and excesses that would come about with unlimited "Free Energy".

In my youth when indoor toilets and all of those other "luxurys"
became available (it took years for me to get used to the idea of
going to the toilet in the house) I still prefer a maple leaf over
dollar-a-roll toilet tissue. Except in copper-head snake country.

We have no one to blame but ourselves for squandering our natural
resources and putting all of that fossil fuel fixed carbon back into
the atmosphere. Even living in the country and paying $20.00/ton to have
the fixed carbon (trash)hauled off to a land-fill and reburied so as to 
keep it's oxides out of the atmosphere is worth it.
 Now we have Tv with hundreds of channels of garbage, Dick Tracy wrist
wrist radios that let you rear-end someone at 75 mph while you are
gabbing on it, and worldwide internet instant verbal warfare etc. <g>

As a kid a dish of "jello" was a great treat. On St. Patrick's Day
The grand kids turned up their noses at "green jello?" <G>
Oh well.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 16:51:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA30383; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:25:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:25:14 -0800
Message-ID: <33387AA2.23CC microtronics.com.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:53:46 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth Experiment
References: <199703251540.JAA04276 natasha.eden.com> <33381D9F.398E@worldnet.att.net> <33385CBA.797D@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"8yWEB.0.ZQ7.ep6Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5338
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
> And a couple of other things:
> 
> There is a method for measuring the magnetic susceptibility of materials
> called the Gouy balance wich takes advantage of the "watermelon seed"
> effect. In a mostly horizontal magnetic field between poles where the
> field strength at the top and bottom of the rod shaped target sample are
> known, the increase or decrease in apparent weight is measured with a
> balance, and the susceptibility of the mass in the field is calculated.
> 
> Also, that biological levitation method discussed in the article on
> biological levitation (frogs, water, etc.) mentions fields of 10T or so,
> and the 35MGO NIBs I have are probably about 1.2T at the surface. The
> article did mention the levitation of bismuth and tin samples, but
> didn't mention the field strength necessary to achieve that. Point is,
> with our little permanent magnets, any forces on bismuth due to its
> diamagnetism should be, and are according to Scott's *and* Epitaxy's
> experiments is, very small. The problem is that large value (15%) weight
> loss Epitaxy reports.
> 
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI

Hi Rick,

By using the Neos in opposition, by studies indicate you should be able
to generate a flux density of 3-6 times the normal "Open Circuit" pole
face flux density.  

The flux density generated this way is very much a factor of the
stiffness of the magnet and a larger external flux density may result
from using a magnet with a lower initial flux density but much stiffer
(higher -Am demag field required to reduce flux to zero).  When using
magnets in opposition like this, the pole faces are subjected to very
strong demag fields.  

Most Neos I have played with, show an "Open Circuit" pole face max flux
density around 0.5T.  This can be increased somewhat by using a longer
magnet (less self demag).  Generally the longer the magnet, the greater
the pole face flux density available in a "Open Circuit" usage.

The 1.2T you mention normally can only be achieved in a "Closed Circuit"
as it is the Max flux point on the B/H curve and can only be achieved
with no demag field (0Am).

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 17:21:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA06777; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:08:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:08:46 -0800
X-Sender: hheffner corecom.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v01530500af5e244630f7 [199.237.131.248]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:12:26 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER corrections
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZHIZh.0.pf1.SS7Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5340
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 2:30 PM 3/25/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:

>>[snip]
>>> Mills is taking the ground state Bohr radius (Ro) = 5.3E-11 meters
>>>and instead of the quantized orbits n^2*Ro he is using Ro/n^2 thus

                                      Note above

Going from n^2 to 1/n^2 is the same as substituting 1/N for n, true?

[snip]
>Why would you want fractional values of the orbits of the time tested
>Bohr model?
[snip]
>Regards,    Frederick

Sorry, I thought that is what *you* were suggesting above as an approach to
getting the lights closer to the nucleus, and/or you were suggesting that
is what Mills did with the ordinary electron.  In that case I was pointing
out the limit to N is 137 and the limit to gamma is 35.63085119.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 17:37:25 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA06465; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:06:12 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:06:12 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703251901.ZM11609 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:01:01 -0600
In-Reply-To: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 CompuServe.COM>
        "Fuel ALREADY cheap, Utopia already here" (Mar 25,  4:41pm)
References: <970325221045_72240.1256_EHB132-1 CompuServe.COM>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Fuel ALREADY cheap, Utopia already here
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"_WYBV3.0.wa1.2Q7Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5339
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mar 25,  4:41pm, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> John Steck writes:
>
>      I maintain there is no such thing as an inexpensive fuel source.  All
>      true costs rarely translate directly to the bottom line and are never
>      fully appreciated until well into any program.
>
> This view ignores the last 5000 years of history. Since the invention of
fire,
> fuel has been getting ever cheaper, and the side effects of its use have been
> growing more environmentally benign.

Benign to whom?  Are you volenteering to go live next to a spent nuke fuel
storage facility? a coal plant?  Interested in eating any fish out of a cooling
pond?  How about living in a valley above a newly built hydro-electric dam?
(bring your swimsuit)  Visit Chernoble lately?  As I mentioned before, the
costs do not readily translate directly to our pocketbooks.  The risks involved
operating our newer, better power plants are staggering with repercussions
echoing far into the future.

 >      CF, Blacklight, and other o/u devices may look great up front, but stop
>      for a moment and imagine the multitude of industries and resources that
>      will be required to manufacture the components or fuels to take
>      advantage of them.
>
> These same industries and resources will have to be constructed and paid for
> even if we do *not* use CF or some other o/u devices. Even if we stick with
> oil and fission, our present infrastructure of refineries, generators,
> factories and machine tools have to be thrown out in 20 to 30 years, because
> it will wear out. We rebuild civilization from the ground up every
> generation. The only common artifacts that remain in use longer than that are
> houses and buildings. Furthermore, in 20 years, our machines will have to be
> redesigned from top to bottom with or without o/u. Even automobiles and
> dishwashing machines are redesigned to take advantage of things like
> microprocessors and new materials.

Machines wear out every day.  There are never any lump sum improvements.
 Industries and societies continuously evolve over time as resources permit,
but any new technology has associated startup costs.    Radical, high demand
changes require even more capital.  A switch will not be seamless, it never is.
 We can't even repeatably mass produced good CF beads yet.  Which existing
company and technology were you thinking of to handle that?  Take as an example
the switch from horse and buggy to automobile.  How many industries needed to
be created to make that change over?  Do you think they had any idea of the
impact they would have on history, the economy, the environment?

>      On the laboratory scale the downside may be negligible, but ramp up
>      production and suddenly you find yourself wondering what to do with all
>      those accumulating spent fuel rods.
>
> You could scale up the spent fuel rods from most CF experiments a hundred
> million times and there would not be enough dangerous material to worry
about.
> In fact, you would end up with increased value, in precious metals.

That was an unfair jab at the fission people and their original vision of the
future not a free association with CF waste products.  My point is that problem
looks a heck of a lot more scary now than it did when they fired up the first
plant.  Dead CF cells may be inert, but how much of the manufacturing cycle to
mass produce a CF cell is?  We will never really know until we look at it in
hind sight.

 >      Just like time, and money, I assert energy utilization will track
>      proportional to supply.
>
> I hope so! If energy use increases roughly 5 times worldwide, while pollution
> falls to a fraction of 1% of today's levels, that will save the lives of
> roughly 68,000 children every week.

Great, I'm all for it, but I was addressing the pie-in-the sky predictions on
what will be done with all that excess.  My point was that, given our track
record, most sources will not be replaced, just supplemented.  Pollution wont
magically disappear in anyones lifetime no matter what we invent.  Too much
money and national security involved.  In the end, all it takes is a good
volcano burp to really screw things up worse than 200 years of industry.

 >      Even if all the processes for o/u energy production turn out to be
>      benign, an excess of supply will not create the utopia envisioned.
>
> Nothing can create utopia. History has shown that people will always make
> trouble for themselves. However, history also shows that every person in the
> developed world today lives better than any ancient king would have dreamed
> of. We are, for the most part, secure against disease, famine, cold, and
heat,
> and excessive pain in surgery and death. We are warned well in advance of
most
> storms. We can talk to anyone in the world at a moment's notice. We can
travel
> to any spot on the globe in a day or less. We can choose from hundreds of
> thousands of books, for free, at libraries and on the Internet. To ancient
> people these would be God-like powers. They would be unimaginable! We are
> already living in utopia by the standards of earlier ages, we just don't
> recognize it. Some of us don't anyway. I have a long memory. I know what
> horrors we have escaped, and what progress we have made. We can put most of
> our present horrors behind us too, if we only have the will to do it.

You and I live in that world, but not everyone.  We are lucky, perhaps blessed,
nothing else.  Utopia? hardly.  Our species is too greedy and selfish to ever
allow that to happen.  The ability to amaze the ignorant proves nothing either.
 My dog is facinated everytime I fill her food bowl, doesn't make me anything
more than what I am.


>      Now you need 32 Meg RAM and 200-300 Meg of drive space just to run the
>      OS.   Do you really need it?  Probably not, but factories are now
>      spitting out SIMs and multi-gigabite drives by the truckload.  Supply is
>      up and component prices are down so new boxes and programs 'guzzle'
>      these available resources with vigor.
>
> Here is a wonderful opportunity for you, John! Seriously. Go dig up one of
> those old computers and use it for a day or two. Then come back and tell us
> how much fun it was trying to deal with itty-bitty screens, wretched slow
> performance, and word processing with "secret-handshake" commands.

Been there, done that.  Thankfully, I don't need to relive history to
appreciate it.  Performance matched resources and programs available at that
time.  Not a fair comparison out of context.  Just like slide rules, those
computers were wonderful in their time.

> I guarantee
> you will see why we love these newer machines. You will appreciate the value
> of progress. You will see that people are not fools. Consumers do not throw
> their money away on things they don't need. People change out their computers
> every 2 years because it pays. The newest stuff is worth every penny. After
> all, there is a thriving market for older equipment. Nobody forces you to buy
> the new stuff. You have a choice: you can pay $200 for an IBM AT, or $2000
for
> Pentium 200. There is a good reason why most people choose the latter.

Again, you missed the point.  The merits of modern computers, and consumer
buying trends are not the issue.  Historically, increased resources have opened
new frontiers, but never conquored the old problems.  We have had countless
opportunities to really take advantage of new resources, but continuously we
get lazy and become even more wasteful of them.  They lose worth to us because
we can no longer conceptualize what we command with indifference.  Unlimited
energy will be no different.

I am not throwing a wet blanket on progress, nor am I a pesimistic fatalist.  I
just think from time to time too many people get intoxicated with warm fuzzy
ideas and forget to watch where they are going.  Enthusiasm, but with a hint of
caution is critical.  Enough blathering.

Good evening all!   -john


-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 18:42:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA21718; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:29:51 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:29:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER corrections
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:29:01 +0000
Message-ID: <19970326022859.AAA10910 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"uwXQZ3.0.GJ5.Se8Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5341
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:12 AM 3/26/97 +0000, Horace Heffner wrote:

>
>Going from n^2 to 1/n^2 is the same as substituting 1/N for n, true?
>
True, I think.
>
>Sorry, I thought that is what *you* were suggesting above as an approach to
>getting the lights closer to the nucleus, and/or you were suggesting that
>is what Mills did with the ordinary electron.  In that case I was pointing
>out the limit to N is 137 and the limit to gamma is 35.63085119.

So maybe a light with 933 ev Mo, coming from pair production 
from an 1866 ev photon? It so happens that 1866/13.6 (the ground
state kinetic energy of the hydrogen atom is 137.  <G>

So you have Mo of a light electron = Me*alpha/4 = 1.66E-33 kg. 

When is your tea party anyhow, Sat Mar 29th perhaps? :-)

>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner          
>
>
Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 19:32:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA28145; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:20:08 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:20:08 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <333895FA.170F interlaced.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:20:26 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Synthesizing oil, and knowledge
References: <19970326001623.AAA18516 LOCALNAME>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"EN0hZ2.0.et6.ZN9Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5342
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
> 
(snip)

>  Now we have Tv with hundreds of channels of garbage, Dick Tracy wrist
> wrist radios that let you rear-end someone at 75 mph while you are
> gabbing on it, and worldwide internet instant verbal warfare etc. <g>
> 
Frederick, if you keep this up, I'll have to pass you the "grouchy old
man" torch!  At any rate, it's up to us oldies to keep one toe of each
of these whippersnapper daydreamers on the ground.

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Mar 25 21:18:51 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA11677; Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:08:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:08:33 -0800
From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:07:42 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970326000741_-737376715 emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: jewel sgi.net, KAYOPJ@aol.com, RVargo1062@aol.com, fstenger@interlaced.net,
        Puthoff aol.com, 72240.1256@compuserve.com, 76570.2270@compuserve.com,
        CldFusion aol.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, jseese@gpu.com
Subject: Fwd: GENESIS OF THE UNIVERSE AND ZERO POINT ENERGY
Resent-Message-ID: <"Ve9pu.0.Gs2.FzAEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5343
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

What next????
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	paulo oblivion.net (Paulo)
To:	fznidarsic aol.com
Date: 97-03-25 18:33:34 EST

hey frank,
i'm considering using 'genesis of the universe & zero point energy' in my
(possibly) upcoming zine, tasty brain food.  i was wonderin' if that was
okay with you.
payment will most likely be just a copy or two, or a flat copy for you to
make a million copies with if you want.
well lemme know if you wouldn't mind.  oh and if i can use it, do you have
any images of those ascii diagrams and such? or maybe the file formatted in
a better format?  it's alright if you don't, but it would be really helpful.
thanks.
peace,
paulo
------------------------------------------------
       undumb-zine of all things not dumb
http://www.tstonramp.com/~fbartune/frank/undumb/
 "It's dank reading material." -Manny the Hippy
------------------------------------------------


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 03:15:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA28493; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:46:59 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:46:59 -0800
Message-ID: <3338FE84.54DB worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:46:34 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth Experiment
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"6gqeF.0.4z6.YwFEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5344
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Greg -

   >  By using the Neos in opposition, by studies indicate
   >  you should be able to generate a flux density of
   >  3-6 times the normal "Open Circuit" pole face
   >  flux density.

I thought there might be some dense areas near bucked poles from looking
at some of the GIFs posted here. Those dense lines form up in a very
narrow plane too, right? If you've got a plate or sheet where a large
percentage of its mass is located within that area of the unusually
intense field, then there's sure to be a larger force. But even if the
whole mass were within such a zone, that still makes it only a max of up
to 6x the fields that, for instance, Scott Little saw pretty much
soaking the whole sample, or 6x 0.55%, for a 3.3% total. Are the math
and assumptions right? If so, it's still too far from 15% to help much.
Epitaxy's sure he saw this amount too, and was very wary of error. He
says tried some plastic for control/null runs.

In metals, some shapes are just cast, some are drawn (rod), and some are
rolled (sheet). There are also alloys and impurities. Some of these
things certainly affect the properties of bulk 'bismuth' samples. Maybe
there's something with sheet or plate where crystals or other structures
cause the sample to react very differently than with other orientations.
I've read that stretching causes reduced resistance, and drawing out to
very thin fibers reduces that resistance to *0* at room temperature.
Maybe rolling and folding Bi repeatedly with certain impurities in
layers makes "Damascus Bismuth" - good for weaving magic carpets? <g>

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 04:11:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA02389; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:02:30 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:02:30 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cost of energy - the keypunch fallacy
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:02:22 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <333afc86.43761502 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <v02140b03af5cb06b0446 [198.133.146.230]>
In-Reply-To: <v02140b03af5cb06b0446 [198.133.146.230]>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"0dZ_t1.0.8b.J1HEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5345
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:38:35 -0800, Schaffer gav.gat.com wrote:
[snip]
>I am not aware of any such anomalies.  In controlled thermonuclear fusion
>experiments we measure neutron production, and it agrees rather closely
>with the neutron rate we calculate from the plssma temperature and density.
>The greatest experimental error is in the calculation of the slowing down
>of high energy ions in the plasma.
>
>If anomalies exist, they are either small or classified.  (As I understand
>it, Kasagi's paper at ICCF6 was an experimental verification of a small
>'classical' shielding effect in solid state, and not an anomaly.
[snip]
Thanks, I appreciate the response.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 05:48:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA10393; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:40:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:40:25 -0800
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:39:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970326083948_80674997 emout06.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"WH64l.0.JY2.7TIEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5346
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On March 25, Mitchell Swartz posted:

"Tom has correctly noted that EUV may interact with the medium.
The fact that the water would be a good absorber 
(and thereby a good emitter presumably) doesnt change the mathematics.
Gauss' theorem involves an entire surface volume, and over that
surface integral (dotted with the surface unit vector), the EUV is
exiting yielding a net loss IMHO."

The EUV may be exiting the integral, but I don't think that the EUV (extreme
ultraviolet) exits an electrolytic CF cell as EUV.

Water is a good absorber of EUV radiation, which heats the water; but as far
as I know, water is a poor emitter of EUV.  Doesn't water radiate almost all
its heat at different wavelengths?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 06:11:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA13044; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:01:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 06:01:35 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970326135327.00721c68 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:53:27 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"C4wZN3.0.kB3.-mIEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5347
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:39 AM 3/26/97 -0500, Tom wrote:
>On March 25, Mitchell Swartz posted:
>
>"Tom has correctly noted that EUV may interact with the medium.
>The fact that the water would be a good absorber 
>(and thereby a good emitter presumably) doesnt change the mathematics.
>Gauss' theorem involves an entire surface volume, and over that
>surface integral (dotted with the surface unit vector), the EUV is
>exiting yielding a net loss IMHO."
>
>The EUV may be exiting the integral, but I don't think that the EUV (extreme
>ultraviolet) exits an electrolytic CF cell as EUV.
>
>Water is a good absorber of EUV radiation, which heats the water; but as far
>as I know, water is a poor emitter of EUV.  Doesn't water radiate almost all
>its heat at different wavelengths?
>
>Tom Stolper
>
>

  Tom,

  First, in my experience in antennas (studied with L.J. Chu at MIT), and
radiators
(various spectroscopies at various places), the
emission and absorption are often linked.  

  Good emitters are good absorbers. 

  They are often linked, through what in antenna theory,
is the radiation resistance.



  Second, also, if you want to get people to believe this theory, you need
two things it seems.  

  1) an absorption curve as other spectroscopists have done for
water in the microwave, the IR, and other regions of the spectrum, and

  2) a signature of this radiation appearing during excess heat of sample
correlated with the excess heat, and 

  3) prove that there would not be NET EUV leaving the sample
as cited above by Gauss theorem.  

   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 08:24:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA00398; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:11:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:11:44 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:10:58 +0000
Message-ID: <19970326161056.AAA16023 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"f0l_e1.0.46.-gKEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5348
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace:

Here are some doodles that show that the Bohr Ro wavelength
(Lo = 2 Pi*Ro)is 137 times the Compton wavelength of the electron 
and why Ro/n^2 or n^2*Ro orbit-energy levels have to be even 
multiples of the Compton wavelength and/or the rest energy of 
the electron. Or something like that.  <g>

n^2     Lo*n^2          Orbit ev          Lo/n^2         Orbit ev

1       3.33E-10          13.6            3.33E-10        13.6
4       1.33E-9           3.4             8.23E-11        54.4
9       2.99E-9           1.51            3.69E-11        122.4
16      5.33E-9           0.85            2.08E-11        217.6
25      8.32E-9           0.54            1.33E-11        340.0
36      1.19E-8           0.377           9.25E-12        489.6
49      1.63E-8           0.277           6.69E-12        666.4
64      2.13E-8           0.213           5.20E-12        870.4
81      2.70E-8           0.168           4.11E-12        1.10E3
100     3.33E-8           0.136           3.33E-12        1.36E3
121     4.03E-8           0.112           2.75E-12        1.65E3
144     4.79E-8           0.094           2.31E-12        1.96E3

Makes a good way to start the day.  :-)

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 09:58:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA04376; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:43:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:43:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: hheffner corecom.net (Unverified)
Message-Id: <v01530500af5ef3bb1534 [199.237.131.248]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:45:56 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Light electron and quantum state n
Resent-Message-ID: <"fW5bN3.0.F41.k0MEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5349
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

The following is a summary with corrections of the discussion (previously
under the somewhat misleading thread name "BLACKLIGHT POWER") of simplistic
hydrogen atom orbital mechanics based on the Bohr assumptions of circular
orbitals and quantum state n, as related to light electrons:

NEWTONIAN LOOK AT THE PROBLEM

The kinetic energy K of the lepton in orbit in a hydrogen atom radius r is
given by:

(1)    K = q^2/((8Pi)(e0)(r)) = (1/2)(m)(v^2)

So velocity:

(2)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)(r)(m))^0.5

Given m1 = mass of light electron, m2 = mass of heavy, v1 velocity of
light, v2 velocity of heavy, at a given r this gives:

(3)    v1/v2 = (m2/m1)^0.5

The lighter the particle the faster the particle at a given r.  Similarly
the rotational frequency is proportional to (1/m)^0.5, while momentum and
angular momentum are proportional to (m)^0.5 at a given r, e.g.:

(4)    p = mv = ((m)(q^2)/(4(pi)e0(r))^0.5

Given that the radius is quantized to:

(5)    r = (n^2) ((h^2)(e0))/((pi)(q^2)(m)),  for n = 1,2,3, ...

For the Bohr radius (n=1) or any specific quantum state (n>1), using r1 for
light, r2 for heavy, the radius ratio is given by:

(6)    r1/r2 = m2/m1

So, the bigger the mass the smaller the radius and vice versa.

However, we can't chose mass and velocity arbitrarily.  Substituting (5)
into (2):

(7)    v = (q^2/((4pi)(e0)[(n^2)(h^2)(e0)/((pi)(q^2)(m))](m))^0.5

Simplifying:

(8)    v^2 = ((q^2)(pi)(m)(q^2))/(4(pi)(n^2)(e0)(m)(h^2)(e0))

(9)    v^2 = q^4/(4(n^2)(h^2)(e0^2))

(10)   v = q^2/(2(n)(e0)(h))

In numerical terms:

(11)   q = 1.60x10^-19 coul

(12)   e0 = 8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2

(13)   h = 6.63x10^-34 joule-sec

(14)   v = (1.60x10^-19 coul)^2/(2(8.85x10^-12 coul^2/nt-m^2)
            (6.63x10^-34 joule-sec)(n))

(15)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)/n



RELATIVISTIC CONSIDERATIONS

In the above formulations the velocities and masses are relativistic
(observed) quantities.  So, if we use the relativistic mass:

(16)  m1 = m0/(1-v^2/c^2)^0.5

Or in ground state:

(17)  m1 = m0 [1-(q^2/(2(e0)(h))/c)^2]^-0.5

(18)  m1 = m0 [1 - ((2.18x10^6 m/s)/(3X10^8 m/s))^2]^-0.5

(19)  m1 = m0/(.9999736)

Thus if if we have the hypothesized light electron of mass m2/135^2 = m0 =
4.85E-35 kg, we have also:

(20)  m1 = 4.85E-35 kg = m2/135^2

So applying (6) we see that r is 135^2 times as big for the light electron
with mo=m2/135^2 as for the normal electron in the H atom.



FINE STRUCTURE CONSTANT

If a denotes the fine structure constant alpha, then a=q^2/(2(h)(e0)(c)),
appx. a=1/137.035989561, we have from (1):

(21)   v = q^2/(2(n)(e0)(h))  =  (1/n)(c)(a)



FRACTIONAL VALUES OF n

If, by a very unusual assumption, fractional values of n are allowed, i.e.
n=(1/(N)), N integer, then we have:

(22)   v = (2.18x10^6 m/s)(N) = N(c)(a)

Thus, since v can not exceed c, the maximum value for N is 137 and the
maximum orbital velocity is:

(23)   v = (c)(137a) = (c)(0.999737372)

This sets the limits on R, gamma, and m.

Examining the limits we reconsider (16):

(16)  m1 = m0/(1-v^2/c^2)^0.5

Or in state n=1/137:

(24)  m1 = m0 (1-(0.999737372)^2)^-0.5

(25)  m1 = m0 (7.87675986x10^-4)^-0.5

(26)  m1 = m0 (35.63085119)

Thus if if we have the hypothesized light of mass m0 = 4.85E-35 kg, we have
also a maximum mass for a light electron in an orbital of:

(27)  m1 = (4.85E-35 kg) (35.63085119) = 1.728E-33 kg

So applying (5) we see that the minimal r at n=1/137 is 1/35.63 times as
big for the light electron as for the electron in the ground state Bohr
radius.

Further, a normal electron in the n=1/137 state would be in a radius of
(1/35.63)(1/137^2) the normal ground state radius.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 12:32:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA05598; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:51:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:51:40 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC39DB.EF71B980 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Energy for synthesizing food
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:50:42 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020"
Resent-Message-ID: <"YryWV2.0.ON1.AvNEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5350
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Warning! Highly opinionated statements enclosed. Some observers may view =
this as a highly anti-technological rant.

Frank Znidarsic (Monday, March 24, 1997) wrote:

 >In "Frontiers of Science" a Saturday supplement to the many news =
papers June
 >14 1969 an article appeared, "Synthetic food - edible proteens made"  =
food
 >bars were made from inorganic material.  The problem, energy intensive =
and
 >didn't taste good..  That's better than synthetic oil and it was done =
30
 >years ago.

<sigh> I was gonna try to keep out of this kind of discussion, but food =
really hits me where I live.

Short synopsis of my premises here: We don't know what we don't know. =
Don't alter complex systems that you don't fully understand, especially =
when those systems are vital. Don't take something apart unless you =
either know exactly how to reconnect everything or don't need it to work =
anymore.

One of the big problems with dominant-culture science is it seems to =
either ignore or refuse to acknowledge the existence of things or =
phenomena that it can't detect; it seems to ignore the fact that just =
because your current-technology detector doesn't register, that doesn't =
mean there's nothing there. Hence this mail list? Another problem is the =
failure to consider greater than first-order downstream consequences of =
actions. I sometimes wonder how scientists can play chess (well, maybe =
it's because their funding source isn't telling them to quit thinking =
about it and make a damn move so the results can be published <g>).

Artificial food is a great idea, unless you start to wonder what all =
there is in real (living) food, and its relationship to us. We may not =
know all of that. Virtually all food that humans and other =
highly-evolved critters eat comes from living organisms. Things with =
"life". We often think of people (and others) as having a "spirit" in =
one sense or another. What is that? What is intelligence, or sentience?

It's known that we can get disease from substances in food. Well, what =
if we are also getting health from food? In subtle ways we don't see =
yet? What subtle aspects of "life" are we extracting from our living =
foods? I know this - healthy, living soils with high volume and species =
diversity of mini- and micro-organisms produce the most healthy disease- =
and stress-resistant crops. Are we less dependent/responsive to =
complexity than vegetables? Many physical substances are concentrated =
and increased in complexity going up the food chain. Could it be =
possible that that is also true of subtle energies? If so, what would be =
the consequences of short-circuiting that process? We probably wouldn't =
die; perhaps we'd just get a bit duller or something; maybe enough so =
that we wouldn't notice the change (ever get hypothermia? one of the =
first things to go is your ability to judge that you're slipping into =
hypothermia).

If we were to change our diets to eat foods that were never living, =
would that have any long-term, subtle effects on us? On our =
consciousness, our intelligence, our spirit? We're talking about things =
we don't know how to measure; it may take a long time to see the impacts =
of such changes. Maybe it would take generations. On what population =
should we test this?

Artificial food is not necessary. Neither is desalinization of ancient =
salt lake beds to produce arable land for agriculture. All we need to do =
is keep our population to reasonable levels; stop covering up our best =
soils with concrete; stop destroying our soils with life-degrading =
farming practices, replacing them with life-building ones; stop =
poisoning and wasting our clean fresh water. Given those actions we can =
feed the world in good health and vitality indefinitely.

(I've mostly kept political/social considerations out of this =
discussion. Want to talk "Green Revolution" or economic coersion? Maybe =
better to keep those private, off this list).

Dan Quickert
(just another bundle of highly organized energy fields, with an attitude =
;-)


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 13:42:49 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA00807; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:23:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:23:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Light electron and quantum state n
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:22:21 +0000
Message-ID: <19970326212219.AAA29089 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"vg6lQ3.0.XC.yEPEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5351
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To those interested:

The potential V of a point charge at a radius r is k*q/r volts.
k = 1/4(pi)eo = 8.99E9, q = 1.6E-19 coulombs.
However, for a charge in orbit the kinetic energy 1/2mv^2 is V/2.
Thus for an electron of mass m orbiting at radius r, V = k*q/2*r*n^2.

The velocity v in the orbit is, v = c*{1-1/[q*V/(mo*c^2)+1]^2}^1/2.

The relativistic mass Mr for any lepton is, mo/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2.

Thus v^2 = c^2*{1-1/[q*V/(mo*c^2)+1]^2}.

>From simple mechanics the centripetal force Fc of an orbiting electron
Mr*v^2/r = the electrostatic force Fes = k*q^2/r^2. 

Same as gravity force Mr*v^2/r = G*m*m2/r^2 where
m2 is the mass of the Earth or the Moon etc., and Mr is 
a baseball moving at velocity v or at near c. 

At orbits at or above the ground state Bohr radius Ro, V = k*q/2*Ro*n^2,
at or below Ro; V = n^2*k*q/2*Ro.

>From this a (hypothetical)light electron of say Me/137  6.64E-33 kg
at Ro will achieve a velocity of 2.562E7 meters/second 
(v^2 = 6.566E14 m/sec) or a relativistic mass, Mr = 1.00366*Mo.

Then Mr*v^2/Ro = 2.304E-28/Ro^2; Fc = 8.256E-8 nt, Fes = 8.202E-8 nt.
A bit of number crunching to find the balance point for a light electron
of any mass near Ro.

There is no balance point at any orbit below Ro except at Ro*alpha^2
the classical radius of the electron 2.81E-15 meters near the proton
radius (of about 4.6E-18 meters) 
and Mr = Me the rest mass of the electron.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 13:57:26 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA22143; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:46:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:46:02 -0800
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Boeing%l=BOEING/WEST/000434A2 xch-rd-11.rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
From: "Scudder,Henry J" <hjscudde rdyne.bna.boeing.com>
To: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>, Vortex-L <Vortex-L@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Energy for synthesizing food
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:42:00 -0800
X-Mailer:  Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ETra6.0.rP5.OaPEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5352
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Do you ever drink diet soda?
Hank Scudder
 ----------
From: Dan Quickert
To: 'vortex-l eskimo.com'
Subject: RE: Energy for synthesizing food
Date: Wednesday, March 26, 1997 11:50AM


Warning! Highly opinionated statements enclosed. Some observers may view
this as a highly anti-technological rant.

Frank Znidarsic (Monday, March 24, 1997) wrote:

 >In "Frontiers of Science" a Saturday supplement to the many news
papers
June
 >14 1969 an article appeared, "Synthetic food - edible proteens made"
food
 >bars were made from inorganic material.  The problem, energy intensive
and
 >didn't taste good..  That's better than synthetic oil and it was done
30
 >years ago.

<sigh> I was gonna try to keep out of this kind of discussion, but food
really hits me where I live.

Short synopsis of my premises here: We don't know what we don't know.
Don't
alter complex systems that you don't fully understand, especially when
those systems are vital. Don't take something apart unless you either
know
exactly how to reconnect everything or don't need it to work anymore.

One of the big problems with dominant-culture science is it seems to
either
ignore or refuse to acknowledge the existence of things or phenomena
that
it can't detect; it seems to ignore the fact that just because your
current-technology detector doesn't register, that doesn't mean there's
nothing there. Hence this mail list? Another problem is the failure to
consider greater than first-order downstream consequences of actions. I
sometimes wonder how scientists can play chess (well, maybe it's because
their funding source isn't telling them to quit thinking about it and
make
a damn move so the results can be published <g>).

Artificial food is a great idea, unless you start to wonder what all
there
is in real (living) food, and its relationship to us. We may not know
all
of that. Virtually all food that humans and other highly-evolved
critters
eat comes from living organisms. Things with "life". We often think of
people (and others) as having a "spirit" in one sense or another. What
is
that? What is intelligence, or sentience?

It's known that we can get disease from substances in food. Well, what
if
we are also getting health from food? In subtle ways we don't see yet?
What
subtle aspects of "life" are we extracting from our living foods? I know
this - healthy, living soils with high volume and species diversity of
mini- and micro-organisms produce the most healthy disease- and
stress-resistant crops. Are we less dependent/responsive to complexity
than
vegetables? Many physical substances are concentrated and increased in
complexity going up the food chain. Could it be possible that that is
also
true of subtle energies? If so, what would be the consequences of
short-circuiting that process? We probably wouldn't die; perhaps we'd
just
get a bit duller or something; maybe enough so that we wouldn't notice
the
change (ever get hypothermia? one of the first things to go is your
ability
to judge that you're slipping into hypothermia).

If we were to change our diets to eat foods that were never living,
would
that have any long-term, subtle effects on us? On our consciousness, our
intelligence, our spirit? We're talking about things we don't know how
to
measure; it may take a long time to see the impacts of such changes.
Maybe
it would take generations. On what population should we test this?

Artificial food is not necessary. Neither is desalinization of ancient
salt
lake beds to produce arable land for agriculture. All we need to do is
keep
our population to reasonable levels; stop covering up our best soils
with
concrete; stop destroying our soils with life-degrading farming
practices,
replacing them with life-building ones; stop poisoning and wasting our
clean fresh water. Given those actions we can feed the world in good
health
and vitality indefinitely.

(I've mostly kept political/social considerations out of this
discussion.
Want to talk "Green Revolution" or economic coersion? Maybe better to
keep
those private, off this list).

Dan Quickert
(just another bundle of highly organized energy fields, with an attitude
;-)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 16:19:41 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA13558; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:07:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:07:20 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CF in EUV
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:07:11 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <333cba6d.8676035 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970325090125_-2106454992 emout06.mail.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <970325090125_-2106454992 emout06.mail.aol.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"WIEhr3.0.eJ3.seREp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5354
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:01:25 -0500 (EST), Tstolper aol.com wrote:

>On March 24, Robin van Spaandonk posted that 
>
>"the "hardest" photo-electric x-rays that you can get
>from the oxygen in water are about 500 eV. I believe this also qualifies as
>EUV."
>
>500 eV is considered to be well beyond the extreme ultraviolet (EUV) in any
>field that I know about.  Do you know of a field that considers 500 eV
>photons to be in the EUV?
>
>Tom Stolper
>
>
I based my statement above on Figure 2-4 page 33 in
"Quantum Physics of atoms, molecules, solids, nuclei, and particles",
Second Edition 1985, by Rob Eisberg and Robert Resnick, John Wiley & Sons.
500 eV appears to be about the "top" of the UV line in the figure.
I don't know where they got their information. Note this region also
overlaps the bottom of the x-ray line, in the same figure.



Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 16:20:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03870; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:23:03 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:23:03 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC39F9.6B1290B0 uzl.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Energy for synthesizing food
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:21:45 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC39F9.6B1290B0"
Resent-Message-ID: <"ukxCT2.0.My.L_QEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5353
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39F9.6B1290B0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>Do you ever drink diet soda?
>Hank Scudder

No. Used to, though; back in 1969 I was hooked on Fresca and Hostess =
Cupcakes on my breaks when I worked in a consumer electronics repair =
shop after school. Maybe that explains some things? <g>

Dan

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39F9.6B1290B0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39F9.6B1290B0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 16:26:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA13569; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:07:23 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:07:23 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Momentum transfer
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:07:12 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <333dbf40.9911034 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <970325144450_-1303649056 emout08.mail.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <970325144450_-1303649056 emout08.mail.aol.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"H7bgn2.0.qJ3.teREp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5355
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:44:54 -0500 (EST), Puthoff aol.com wrote:
[snip]
>EM fields fall into two varieties, the induction fields where the fields are
>still tied to their charge sources (e.g., coulomb fields), and the radiation
>fields, where the fields have disconnected from their sources to radiate out.
> Momenta transfered by the induction fields (as in motors and generators) are
>typically larger because the source charges can still participate in the
>reaction forces and momentum transfer, and, in any case for most situations
>the induction fields are stronger at close range to their sources than the
>radiation fields.
[snip]
Thanks Hal, this is the answer I was looking for.


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 17:25:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA28040; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:13:05 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:13:05 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3339C9A1.3FE interlaced.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:13:05 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Quickert's Rant
References: <01BC39DB.EF71B980 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"EUGka.0.2s6.VcSEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5356
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Dan Quickert wrote:
> 
> Warning! Highly opinionated statements enclosed. Some observers may view this as a highly anti-technological rant.
> 
Go ahead and rant, Dan.  Humanity is going to need "free brains" as
much as "free energy" in the next 1000 years.  Technology as we know
it (not talking about fire, or the wheel) is only a bit over 100 years
old.  As a frame of mind, it's a lot less than that!  Sure, we can do
anything we WANT to do - but will we find the collective guts to WANT
what we NEED?  Can any species really address the problem of controlling
its own population?  On this basic point I'm a complete dud - the father
of 5 children.  I have no intention of recalling any of them!  Think
about this attitude and what it implies for our future.  Our BIG
problem is not what we CAN do - it's what we WILL do to satisfy our
emotional priorities.  Lord Acton's "absolute power corrupts
absolutely" will haunt us in the future.  We long ago acquired absolute
power over the life on this planet - are we up to the task?

Breathing in too much acetone vapor in Ashtabula----- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 17:57:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA02021; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:43:31 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:43:31 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130500af5f8eab5ca8 [153.34.203.181]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:45:09 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Quickert's Rant
Resent-Message-ID: <"lUCzW.0.VV._2TEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5357
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>Dan Quickert wrote:
>>
>> Warning! Highly opinionated statements enclosed. Some observers may view
>>this as a highly anti-technological rant.
>>
>Go ahead and rant, Dan.  Humanity is going to need "free brains" as
>much as "free energy" in the next 1000 years.  Technology as we know
>it (not talking about fire, or the wheel) is only a bit over 100 years
>old.  As a frame of mind, it's a lot less than that!  Sure, we can do
>anything we WANT to do - but will we find the collective guts to WANT
>what we NEED?  Can any species really address the problem of controlling
>its own population?  On this basic point I'm a complete dud - the father
>of 5 children.  I have no intention of recalling any of them!  Think
>about this attitude and what it implies for our future.  Our BIG
>problem is not what we CAN do - it's what we WILL do to satisfy our
>emotional priorities.  Lord Acton's "absolute power corrupts
>absolutely" will haunt us in the future.  We long ago acquired absolute
>power over the life on this planet - are we up to the task?
>
>Breathing in too much acetone vapor in Ashtabula----- Frank Stenger

>From a longer-term perspective, the problem is not one of "over-population"
-- as some in the popular media would have one believe.  It's a 'big'
universe out there.  The problem is one of undercapitalization .... and I'm
speaking of Primary as well as Secondary capital.

Sic itur ad astra.

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html



"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 18:42:04 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA07780; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:12:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:12:49 -0800
Message-ID: <3339B1AD.E51 microtronics.com.au>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:00:54 +0930
From: Greg Watson <gwatson microtronics.com.au>
Reply-To: gwatson microtronics.com.au
Organization: Greg Watson Consulting
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth Experiment
References: <3338FE84.54DB worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"3nttd1.0.Jv1.TUTEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5358
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
> Greg -
> 
>    >  By using the Neos in opposition, by studies indicate
>    >  you should be able to generate a flux density of
>    >  3-6 times the normal "Open Circuit" pole face
>    >  flux density.
> 
> I thought there might be some dense areas near bucked poles from looking
> at some of the GIFs posted here. Those dense lines form up in a very
> narrow plane too, right? 

Right, very narrow in a plane centered between the magnets.

> If you've got a plate or sheet where a large
> percentage of its mass is located within that area of the unusually
> intense field, then there's sure to be a larger force. But even if the
> whole mass were within such a zone, that still makes it only a max of up
> to 6x the fields that, for instance, Scott Little saw pretty much
> soaking the whole sample, or 6x 0.55%, for a 3.3% total. 

Scott used a rod and Epitaxy a thin sheet.  Scott's very much bulky rod
may have not been a good test subject.  As the increased fulx density
from opposing magnets is in a thin ring just outside the gap between the
magnets, I would suggest that any testing for the effect should use a
thin disk of Bismuth about twice the diameter of the magnets.

> Are the math
> and assumptions right? If so, it's still too far from 15% to help much.
> Epitaxy's sure he saw this amount too, and was very wary of error. He
> says tried some plastic for control/null runs.

Normally magnetic forces are related to the square of the flux density.
 
> In metals, some shapes are just cast, some are drawn (rod), and some are
> rolled (sheet). There are also alloys and impurities. Some of these
> things certainly affect the properties of bulk 'bismuth' samples. Maybe
> there's something with sheet or plate where crystals or other structures
> cause the sample to react very differently than with other orientations.
> I've read that stretching causes reduced resistance, and drawing out to
> very thin fibers reduces that resistance to *0* at room temperature.
> Maybe rolling and folding Bi repeatedly with certain impurities in
> layers makes "Damascus Bismuth" - good for weaving magic carpets? <g>
> 
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI

Hi Rick,

Need to try this with a thin disk of Bismuth.

-- 
Best Regards    Greg Watson Consulting    gwatson microtronics.com.au
Greg Watson     Adelaide, S. Australia    61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
                                          61 18 833 461  Mobile

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 20:12:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA31017; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:01:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:01:46 -0800
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:01:35 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Excellent textfile
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970326193829.3065A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"ckRrc2.0.Za7.d4VEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5359
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A


In searching for info on CONFRONTING THE EXPERTS, a book just reviewed in
the JSE, I happened across an excellent article I'd never seen before. 
"Letter to a Dissident Scientist", by Brian Martin, a specialist on
intellectual suppression. 

http://helix.ucsd.edu/~bssimon/dissent1/documents/Martin.letter.html

B. Martin's site:
http://wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent


.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 20:59:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA05788; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:45:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:45:36 -0800
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:45:26 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Excellent textfile
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970326193829.3065A-100000 eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970326203848.3065B-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"56f773.0.LQ1.kjVEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5360
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, William Beaty wrote:
> In searching for info on CONFRONTING THE EXPERTS, a book just reviewed in
> the JSE, I happened across an excellent article I'd never seen before. 

Hey, Dr. Martin has a whole online book on scientific suppression!  It
does lean towards collisions with politics and whistleblowing, but people
here will recognize the same mechanisms that were used to staunch CF
research. 

Suppression Stories
http://wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/ss/

.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 21:17:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA09118; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:07:53 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:07:53 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970326170233.00689864 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:02:33 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: BlackLight balloons, pot calling kettle 
Resent-Message-ID: <"Yyq_S1.0.NE2.d2WEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5361
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 12:12 PM 3/24/97 EST, Jed wrote:
>To: Vortex

>The thing is, Russ often demands recognition as a CF scientist and as an
>expert in subjects like spectral analysis. He gets upset when people do not
>take his results seriously. Yet he refuses to publish! How can anyone expect
>to be accepted if he is unwilling to publish? I do not understand this. When
>people question my credibility (such as it is), I can, at least, point to
>articles I have written and papers I have translated. You can read them and
>judge for yourself whether I know what I am talking about. Say what you like
>about Mills, it is abundantly clear that he knows how to do a good experiment
>and how to write it up in proper form. There is not enough meat in Russ's home
>page for people to judge his level of expertise.
>
>- Jed
>
>

  Jed, you are wrong.  Russ published in the Cold Fusion Times (ISSN#1072-2874)
issue volume 4, number 4.  You may be jealous it was not IE, but
he did, and you should quit saying this.

 Part of his article has been on the 
CFTimes web site at http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html        
It has been there for a while, too.  Some of his data, including a credible
curve was in that issue.                    

  IMHO, you should get off the case of researchers in this field, too.
It is hard enough actually doing theoretical or experimental research
in a field that has the respect of Rodney Dangerfield (unjustly), without
getting incorrect, and repeated, barbs from you, too.  

 We should work together on these matters.
  
  Hope that helps. 
  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Mar 26 21:46:07 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA13609; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:37:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:37:25 -0800
Message-ID: <333A16ED.529A gorge.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:42:53 -0800
From: tom gorge.net (Tom Miller)
Reply-To: tom gorge.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth Experiment
References: <199703262157.NAA23806 mx1.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"m5AnU3.0.TK3.KUWEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5362
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>I've read that stretching causes reduced resistance, and drawing out to
very thin fibers reduces that resistance to *0* at room temperature.
Maybe rolling and folding Bi repeatedly with certain impurities in
layers makes "Damascus Bismuth" - good for weaving magic carpets? <g>

- Rick Monteverde<

That gives me an idea for a room temperature superconductor:
Gold is a very good conductor. Gold leaf is supposed to be
"a few atoms thick." So... has anybody checked to see how 
well gold leaf conducts electricity-- at room temp, or "high"
cryogenic temps?

Also, assuming current flow is proportional to the surface area of
a conductor, G leaf should make the ultimate "flat wound" coil!!

Gold first, then bismuth.

Tom Miller

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 00:58:11 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA19516; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:49:51 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:49:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970327085000.006653a4 sparc1>
X-Sender: kennel sparc1 (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:50:00 +0900
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Elliot Kennel <kennel nhelab.iae.or.jp>
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"mUzmp2.0.sm4.jIZEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5363
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Tom Stolper writes:

>>XSH in CF cells is due to radiation in the extreme ultraviolet (EUV)<<

      Is there a basis for this claim other than Mills' own analysis?  As
far as I know, Mill's theory is great except for a few minor details; i.e.,
the Schroedinger equation has to be done away with; plus nobody can seem to
find the hydrinos experimentally (see Storms critique).  

Mitchell Swartz writes:
>>if you draw a volume integral, the Poynting vector LEAVES that volume.<<

        Mitchell, once again you've succeeded in completely obfuscating an
apparently simple issue.  If there is some unit volume containing some power
source term q''' (W/cm^3 sec), then the Poynting vector is going to be
directed out of that volume.  Conversely, if your unit volume is an energy
sink, then the Poynting vector will be directed inwardly (negatively). I
don't think that the frequency of radiation matters in this instance.  
        But if the EUV really carries so much energy (i.e., commensurate
with the excess power claimed by several observers), then I would think it
would be very easy to stick some optical fiber probes down there and
everyone would be able to easily observe precisely what's going on. I'm
starting to be boring repetitive, but the fact is that many observers report
excess heat, but no one has encountered radiation commensurate with such
excess heat.  The excess heat occurs without (much) radiation release.  

Best regards,
Elliot Kennel
Sapporo


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 01:25:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA21225; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:17:05 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:17:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: BLACKLIGHT POWER, Electron Decay into Proton
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:16:18 +0000
Message-ID: <19970327091615.AAA14611 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"_KMOr1.0.XB5.EiZEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5364
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To those interested:

In the post titled, Light electron and quantum state n, posted
Wed, 26 Mar 97 21:23:10, archive #5351, the calculations show that
there are no balance orbits for the centripetal force vs the 
electrostatic force between the electron and the proton
(or deuteron) below the ground state Bohr radius (Ro) until the 
electron decays to an orbit equal to the classical radius of the 
electron, 2.81E-15 meters.

However, at this radius, which requires 256 kev kinetic energy for
the electron, calculations show that the relativistic mass of the
electron will be 1.50 times it's rest mass and it's velocity will be
0.745856 c. At this point the electrostatic force will exceed the
centripetal force by 4.8917 newtons.

Catalyzed "K capture" of an electron in Mills' device?

Regards,     Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 01:32:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA02574; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:24:35 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:24:35 -0800
Message-ID: <333A3CA8.36DE worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:23:52 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Bismuth Experiment
References: <3338FE84.54DB worldnet.att.net> <3339B1AD.E51@microtronics.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"w-ceH1.0.5e.HpZEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5365
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Greg -

 > Need to try this with a thin disk of Bismuth.

I agree, and I intend to do that. Bismuth powder should be here by
Monday or Tuesday, so I'll cast a flat piece for the experiment. I know
somebody with a small hand crank metal roller who might be able to roll
out a sample too. I'm curious to see if that makes any noticable
difference.

Thaks for the suggestions.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 04:13:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA27649; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:05:56 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:05:56 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:06:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: ranting and growth
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970327114419.17723B-100000 iesun9>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"qaBQy2.0.xl6.XAcEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5366
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortexians,

The art of ranting isn't dead.

Got a question. Are you scared of yourselves? Are you scared of your 
brains?

This post is about growth. Yes, its all happening in a smidgin of time. 
In a few hundred years, maybe, we'll be masters of the Universe. Does 
this worry you? Does knowledge come to and end? Do we become Gods? What 
do we do when there's apparently nothing left to discover.

Speaking to non-sciencists, they usually detest us or are scared of us 
why. Witness Mary Shelley and Frankeinstein, and just about every horror 
film with a mad scientist.

I believe scientific inquiry should be impartial and objective. You cannot
be told, 'don't look there', its immoral because by definition it wouldn't
be 'a systematic catalogue of knowledge'. 

It seems to me that the anti-science loby's fear of progress is probably a 
fear of demons within their souls and not ours. Yes, one sometimes 
uncovers uglyness but look at all the beauty and convience of the modern 
lifestyle. Also, its just good to know how a thing works. I think, 
therefore I am...

Though, downside of growth,

unfit people
aging population, screwed up demographics
grandmothers giving birth to grandchildren!
being away from the 'elements' makes for facile trivial people - tv no 
  longer educates and informs
massive population - how do you feel being one in a trillion trillion 
  when we start exploring space?

Or do we just have to adapt and have a change in our way of thinking as 
someone put it on vortex a few days ago?
Remi.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 04:19:03 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA27990; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:11:09 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:11:09 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 04:10:53 PST
From: Barry Merriman <barry math.ucla.edu>
Message-Id: <9703271210.AA13012 joshua.math.ucla.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: magnetic levitation
Resent-Message-ID: <"LgSxi.0.Gr6.QFcEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5367
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A


check out 
http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html
for pix and info on (real---hat distinction must 
be made on this group :-) magnetic levitation
of living creatures...pretty cool, if you 
haven't seen it already.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 05:21:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA20429; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:13:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:13:20 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970327010812.0071f534 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:08:12 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"GB6UF1.0.3_4.k9dEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5368
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 05:50 PM 3/27/97 +0900, Elliot wrote:

>Mitchell Swartz writes:
>>>if you draw a volume integral, the Poynting vector LEAVES that volume.<<
>
>        Mitchell, once again you've succeeded in completely obfuscating an
>apparently simple issue.  If there is some unit volume containing some power
>source term q''' (W/cm^3 sec), then the Poynting vector is going to be
>directed out of that volume.  Conversely, if your unit volume is an energy
>sink, then the Poynting vector will be directed inwardly (negatively). I
>don't think that the frequency of radiation matters in this instance.  
>        But if the EUV really carries so much energy (i.e., commensurate
>with the excess power claimed by several observers), then I would think it
>would be very easy to stick some optical fiber probes down there and
>everyone would be able to easily observe precisely what's going on. I'm
>starting to be boring repetitive, but the fact is that many observers report
>excess heat, but no one has encountered radiation commensurate with such
>excess heat.  The excess heat occurs without (much) radiation release.  
>
>Best regards,
>Elliot Kennel
>Sapporo
>
>



  Elliot,

  Sorry that complicated issues are complex.  If they were not, no doubt NEDO
would have succeeded in reproducing F+P like so many other groups including
the US Navy, CEREM, and several other groups.
  
  Now back to this very important subject.
  
  1) As was said, EM radiation leaves the volume.  You apparently agree with
me as you have said in very complex language involving the absolute value
of the Poynting vector (above).  

   Thus, this is not an obfuscating issue but a clarifying issue.


  2) As a result, given Poynting vector which you describe, such
 radiation would remove the energy.  As I posted, "Like the phonons, EM
radiation LEAVING FROM from a sample REMOVES energy.  It cannot be source,
because
if you draw a volume integral, the Poynting vector LEAVES that volume."


  3) As we have both noted including in your pejorative post,
 "The excess heat occurs without (much) radiation release."


  4) Therefore,as I posted, "Given that observed, previously anomalous,
energy involved
in these reactions involving loaded metals is considerable,
and beyond the chemical range, nuclear reactions 
(fusion or fission) are usually considered to be the SOURCE
of the energy, and therefore what the XSH in CF cells is probably due to."

  It is remarkable that you find this obfuscating, because I assure you that
if you lead others to
believe that the exiting radiation is the CAUSE of the excess heat rather
than the
result, and which also REMOVES energy from the system, then you with those
comments appear to be
obfuscating this, already complex, subject.

  Hope that helps.
  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 05:25:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA02913; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:17:04 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:17:04 -0800 (PST)
Date: 27 Mar 97 08:15:10 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Please stop posting encoded files!
Message-ID: <970327131509_72240.1256_EHB59-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Xgl6c2.0.Oj.CDdEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5369
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: A

To: Vortex

Several people here have taken to posting large chunks of text that look like
this:

     ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

     eJ8+IisTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAA . . .

These are often appended to ordinary text messages. I don't know what the
content could be, because none of my utilities will decode them. I understand
the necessity for using uuencoded figures when you want to post a diagram or a
picture like Bismuth.gif. But I cannot see the point of appending so much
stuff to ordinary messages. (Perhaps I don't see it cause I can't read it.)
Let me once again out The House Rules here, set by Our Leader Bill (not
Gates):

RULE 3. Small email files please.  The limit is set to 40K right now, those
exceeding the limit will be forwarded to Bill Beaty.  Some members are on
limited service, or have to pay for received email. Diagrams and graphics can
be mailed to me or John Logajan and posted on our webpages for viewing.

And while we are at, please remember:

RULE 4. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: when you reply to a message DON'T include the
ENTIRE message in your reply.  Always edit it a bit and delete something. . .
.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 05:25:38 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA02961; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:17:18 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:17:18 -0800 (PST)
Date: 27 Mar 97 08:15:32 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: BlackLight balloons, pot calling kettle
Message-ID: <970327131531_72240.1256_EHB59-3 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Uue5u3.0.Bk.RDdEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5370
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

I wrote that Russ George refuses to publish. Mitchell Swartz responds:

     Jed, you are wrong.  Russ published in the Cold Fusion Times
     (ISSN#1072-2874) issue volume 4, number 4.

In that case Russ refuses to cite his own papers! I wasn't aware of this
publication. I'll have a look at it. However, my original point was that Mills
has published extensively, and he is reportedly doing the Mylar balloon
experiment Russ recommends, so Mills is not open to criticism on this point.


     You may be jealous it was not IE, but he did, and you should quit saying
     this.

I am not the least bit jealous. For years I have been urging Russ and all
other CF scientists to publish anything, anywhere. Anyplace is fine with me.


     IMHO, you should get off the case of researchers in this field, too.

In my opinion, the researchers in this field are causing more trouble, more
delays, and more harm to the field than all members of the opposition
combined. If it was not for the petty jealousy, grandiose business schemes,
and the rampant self-destructive stupidity of the CF scientists themselves, we
would have had cold fusion powered automobiles years ago. I think I have made
the case for this point of view in my postings here and in my history articles
in I.E. about Harrison and the Wrights. I do not see any reason to alter my
views. As long as the researchers in this field continue these
self-destructive practices I shall continue to criticize them in the
strongest terms. I will never mollycoddle people just because they call
themselves cold fusion researchers. That is all the more reason to hold them
to high standards, and to expect professional, constructive, good science.
Otherwise they give the field a bad name.


     It is hard enough actually doing theoretical or experimental research in
     a field that has the respect of Rodney Dangerfield (unjustly), without
     getting incorrect, and repeated, barbs from you, too.

My barbs have nothing to do with the scientific content of the research. I
criticize the politics and the business practices. I do not see anyone making
a convincing case that I am wrong.


     We should work together on these matters.

We should work to promote own best interests, instead of constantly shooting
ourselves in the feet.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 05:55:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA22612; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:37:30 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 05:37:30 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970327013219.0070a908 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:32:19 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Diffusion Barrier / More about beads
Resent-Message-ID: <"G4a3x3.0.EX5.OWdEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5371
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 03:35 PM 2/24/97 EST, Jed wrote:
>To: Vortex

>
>     I did a quick look through some literature about 3 years ago, after
>     learning about Patterson's results, and what little I found seems to
>     suggest that Ni is very hard to load with hydrogen.
>
>That's what people say. (A helpful comment!)
>
>

  About nickel:

  Rumors again may not be as helpful as what is actually reported.  
The literature suggests that Ni is like palladium in that it loads.
 Nickel loads, but it has a significant slower internal diffusion rate. 
 As a result, the volume does not rapidly rob the periphery of the loaded
hydrogen, thus allowing attainment of the elevated levels required in short
order,
athough in nickel this does not occur throughout the volume as in Pd.


  Readers actually interested might the check the copious metallurgical
corrosion literature
or other material science references in "Hydrogen Redistribution by Catastrophic
Desoption in Select Transition Metals", J. New Energy, 1, 4, 26-33 (1997).
 or "Catastrophic Active Medium Hypothesis of Cold Fusion", 
 Vol. 4, Proceedings: "Fourth International Conference on Cold Fusion", 
 sponsored by EPRI  and the Office of Naval Research, December (1994).

 Hope that helps.
  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 06:49:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA30317; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 06:32:40 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 06:32:40 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970327022727.00696028 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:27:27 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: BlackLight balloons, pot calling kettle
Resent-Message-ID: <"ySjkk3.0.dP7.6KeEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5373
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:15 AM 3/27/97 EST, Jed wrote:

>In my opinion, the researchers in this field are causing more trouble, more
>delays, and more harm to the field than all members of the opposition
>combined.

  Jed,

  This is laughably not true.

  The obstruction to funding, publication, and interference with r&d,
in the US is causing the trouble.

  Show the evidence that researchers are the cause - or cease and desist.


  ==============================================================

> If it was not for the petty jealousy, grandiose business schemes,
>and the rampant self-destructive stupidity of the CF scientists themselves, we
>would have had cold fusion powered automobiles years ago. 

  Are you projecting?  
 Where do you get this stuff?  Survey?  Hunch?  ?    ?   ?

  Having worked continuously in this field, IMHO it is incredible you blame
the cf researchers again!!

  With all due respect to your now-repeated historical perspective, please
show the evidence that researchers are the cause for there being no
cf power automobile years ago - or cease and desist.


  ==============================================================


>I think I have made
>the case for this point of view in my postings here and in my history articles
>in I.E. about Harrison and the Wrights. I do not see any reason to alter my
>views. 


  Your view is different from your continued public putting down of people in
the field. Everyone is entitled to their, and their opinion.  Yours continue
to hammer on the very people who are the salt of the Earth for this field.

  Also this is not 1900 but a century later, and flying is easy
compared to cf. 


  ==============================================================


>As long as the researchers in this field continue these
>self-destructive practices I shall continue to criticize them in the
>strongest terms. I will never mollycoddle people just because they call
>themselves cold fusion researchers. That is all the more reason to hold them
>to high standards, and to expect professional, constructive, good science.
>Otherwise they give the field a bad name.


  Your continued actions posting against researchers, are contributing some
minor
part to giving the field a bad name.  

  Furthermore, there is no urine-burning o/u device, or rotating
coupled dynamo o/u device, is there. IMHO, this and some of the
other stuff you present in IE does more to hurt the
real field here, than any mistake done by any cf researcher.
Your magazine should show the WISDOM that you claim, as you separate
within it, in future issues hopefully, the science from the flack.

 Take a break, Jed, and move to the science, OK?


  ==============================================================

>
>
>     It is hard enough actually doing theoretical or experimental research in
>     a field that has the respect of Rodney Dangerfield (unjustly), without
>     getting incorrect, and repeated, barbs from you, too.
>
>My barbs have nothing to do with the scientific content of the research. 


  At least we agree with that. 
 But that [scientific content of the research] is what your comments SHOULD be
focused on.  IMHO, that (if you have an open mind to the science), is when you
do your best, Jed.

  Best wishes.
   Mitchell 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 06:53:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA30174; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 06:31:18 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 06:31:18 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970327022609.006c1fe0 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:26:09 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: More Popular CF
Resent-Message-ID: <"i57KL.0.LN7.rIeEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5372
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 10:15 PM 3/23/97 EST, you wrote:
>Vortices,
>
>As the moon wanes behind the shadow of the Earth, CF enjoys more popular
>exposure via the media.  Tonight's part 2 of 2 of the *X-Files* reveals the
>plot, irrefutable evidence that UFO's exist  --  their power source. 

> Yes,
>captured alien technology is purloined by a NICAP member and ferreted away to
>Fox Mulder.  The thief is justified since he took the evidence from the Air
>Force who had taken it from the aliens.  It can now be revealed that the power
>which motivates UFO's is an o.u. device utilizing Cold Fusion.
>
>Interesting thing was, the device was also dangerously radioactive.  Well, you
>must allow for artistic license. <G>
>
>Terry
>
>

 A very good pair of episodes.



  Also, the Saint is about cf, and its potential
impact.  Saw the movie on Monday, and the review is in
the Cold Fusion Times (issue vol 5. #2).

  Good disguises, good movie.

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 07:36:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA16649; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:26:22 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:26:22 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <m0wAH3z-0004ISC mirage.skypoint.com>
From: jlogajan skypoint.com (John Logajan)
Subject: Re: Please stop posting encoded files!
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:26:03 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <970327131509_72240.1256_EHB59-1 CompuServe.COM> from "Jed Rothwell" at Mar 27, 97 08:15:10 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"1bo-N2.0.x34.S6fEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5374
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Jed wrote:
> Several people here have taken to posting large chunks of text that look like
> this:
> 
>      ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020
>      Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> 
>      eJ8+IisTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAA . . .

These are attachments to e-mail engines like those bundled with Netscape.
The attachements can be images or whatever, and the Netscape e-mail engine
automatically figures out how to display them.  It is the beginning of
multi-media e-mail.

Not sure how to stop the trend. :-)

-- 
 - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  612-699-9472 -
 - 4248 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA -
 -   WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan    -

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 08:17:50 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA10917; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:57:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:57:48 -0800
From: Schaffer gav.gat.com
Message-Id: <v02140b00af6047f4a14a [198.133.146.230]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:59:30 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"2HB7U2.0.Vg2.xZfEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5376
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Mitchell responded to Elliot with:
>  Sorry that complicated issues are complex.[snip]

Actually, it this thread started from a simple, clear, and (I think)
uncontroversial sentence by Elliot.  It WAS simple, until Mitchell
introduced Poynting vector and several paragraphs of post.  You both are
saying the same thing.  I'd call the long, complicated path obfuscation,
too.

Michael J. Schaffer
General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 08:18:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA13213; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:07:33 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:07:33 -0800
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:07:26 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
Reply-To: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Please stop posting encoded files!
In-Reply-To: <970327131509_72240.1256_EHB59-1 CompuServe.COM>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970327074612.15072B-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"a8qb51.0.NE3.4jfEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5377
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On 27 Mar 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> To: Vortex
> 
> Several people here have taken to posting large chunks of text that look like
> this:
> 
>      ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020
>      Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> 
>      eJ8+IisTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAA . . .

This is a mime attachment.  I've begun to see alot of these in mail I
received, so I suspect that there is some damned Microsoft product out
there which decides that ASCII is too limited, so it defaults to sending a
MS-Word-compatible MIME-ed copy of every email message that's sent.  They
want the email to appear in the proper fontsize when it is viewed by their
products.  Could be worse.  At least they used MIME, the internet standard
for automatic decoding.  They could have used that HEX stuff that Macs
use, or uuencode that Unix loves. 

>From an email sig of one of the eskimo staff:

WE ARE MICROSOFT OF BORG!  YOU WILL BE ASSIM %^<General Protection Fault
at location 359w:001e>



.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 08:21:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA08612; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:45:43 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:45:43 -0800
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 07:45:34 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: magnetic levitation
In-Reply-To: <9703271210.AA13012 joshua.math.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970327073454.15072A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"39gyC2.0.U62.cOfEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5375
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Barry Merriman wrote:

> check out 
> http://www-hfml.sci.kun.nl/hfml/levitate.html
> for pix and info on (real---hat distinction must 
> be made on this group :-) magnetic levitation
> of living creatures...pretty cool, if you 
> haven't seen it already.

When this rumor made the rounds earlier I didn't bother tracking it down,
it was too weird even for me.  Sounded more like statues in India drinking
milk.  But Jerry "keelynet" Decker passed the URL along to Antigravity
list.  Turns out that the effect is entirely conventional, and is
identical to the dimpled-water-pool effect we discussed earlier.  If you
use kilo-tesla fields, you don't get dimples, you get hovering globules. 
Levitation of Bismuth becomes trivial.  

I wonder, don't frogs have hemoglobin?  At these field strengths, the
attraction of ferro and para-magnetism probably becomes very significant
compared to the repulsion of diamagnetism.  Water might levitate better
than frogs, because a frog constitutes an impure form of water.  I bet all
the proton spins in the water are aligned.  If it was possible to rapidly
collapse the intense field, I bet the synchronized proton spin precession
would make a huge AC field and be audible as vibrations in nearby magnets
and conductors.

.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 09:17:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA22931; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:55:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:55:26 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: BLACKLIGHT POWER, Electron Decay into Proton
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:54:36 +0000
Message-ID: <19970327165434.AAA22232 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"uxSwq2.0.vb5.yPgEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5378
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To those interested:

Here is a summary of the mechanisms and the equations for decay
of an electron or light electron into a proton.

1, Potential V of an electron at distance R from a proton or deuteron;
   V = k*q/2*R*n^2, 
   k = 1/[4*(pi)*eo] = 8.99E9, 
   eo is the permittivity of space, 8.85E-12 Farads/meter 
   n = an integer 1+2+3.....n for any possible orbit below the 
        Bohr ground state radius Ro.
   q = the fundamental unit of charge, 1.6E-19 coulombs
   c = the velocity of light in vacuum, 2.997925E8 meters/second

2, v = velocity at potential V = c*{1-1/[q*V/(mo*c^2)+1]^2}^1/2
   
3, v^2 = c^2*{1-1/[q*V/(mo*c^2)+1]^2}

4, relativistic gamma = 1/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2 = (q*V/mo*c^2)+1

5, Force centripetal Fc = Mr*v^2/R (nt)

6, Force electrostatic Fes = k*q^2/R^2 (nt)

7, Larmor synchrotron radiation loss,
   W = [0.66*k*q^2*a^2/c^3]*(1-v^2/c^2)^-4  (joules)
   a = acceleration = v^2/R

So,if the potential for an electron (of any rest mass) at infinity  
from R = 2.82E-15 meters (V = k*q/2*2.81E-15) = 255.5 Kev, then if 
it can be made to "fall" into the proton or deuteron it will 
generate 255.5 Kev of energy that will be released in accordance 
with the Larmor synchrotron radiation loss equation and this energy 
may not show up as higher energy ionizing(X-radiation) but only as heat.

Regards,     Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 09:27:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA29858; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:07:37 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:07:37 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960327050211.006997f8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 00:02:11 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"0TLqG3.0.PI7.MbgEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5379
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 07:59 AM 3/27/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Mitchell responded to Elliot with:
>>  Sorry that complicated issues are complex.[snip]
>
>Actually, it this thread started from a simple, clear, and (I think)
>uncontroversial sentence by Elliot.  It WAS simple, until Mitchell
>introduced Poynting vector and several paragraphs of post.  You both are
>saying the same thing.  I'd call the long, complicated path obfuscation,
>too.
>
>Michael J. Schaffer
>General Atomics, PO Box 85608, San Diego CA 92186-5608, USA
>Tel:  619-455-2841              Fax:  619-455-4156
>
>
>


 Actually, the sentence in question to which I responded was by Tom Stolper.

    "XSH in CF cells is due to radiation in the extreme ultraviolet (EUV),
   just as Mills has been telling us for the past several years.  Unfortunately,
   the EUV is a tough region of the spectrum to work in.
   Tom Stolper"

  The question is whether the radiation results from the processes
  that also produce the excessheat, and leaves the volume
  or 
  whether it (the radiation possibly leaving the volume)
  is the cause of the excess heat.

  Hope that helps.
    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 09:50:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA03043; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:29:08 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:29:08 -0800 (PST)
Date: 27 Mar 97 12:26:31 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: BlackLight balloons, pot calling kettle
Message-ID: <970327172630_72240.1256_EHB152-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"T_9fN.0.Tl.WvgEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5380
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Mitch writes:

     This is laughably not true.

No, it is not laughable, it is tragic. It is a carefully considered opinion I
share with many experienced businessmen and investors. They refuse to invest
in the field because they see self-destructive behavior. That is what they
say. I agree with them. I would not put a dime in the CF R&D companies they
reject.


     The obstruction to funding, publication, and interference with r&d, in
     the US is causing the trouble.

Yes, of course that is a contributing factor.


     Show the evidence that researchers are the cause - or cease and desist.

I believe I have shown that evidence in my two I.E. history papers and in
numerous messages here. If you would like to write a critique of my history
papers we would be happy to publish it.


     With all due respect to your now-repeated historical perspective, please
     show the evidence that researchers are the cause for there being no cf
     power automobile years ago - or cease and desist.

I believe I have done that already. I think the evidence is manifest. I will
not repeat myself here and take up bandwidth with endless repetitions of the
same arguments, although I will summarize some key points in the last
paragraph.


     Your view is different from your continued public putting down of people
     in the field.

I am not "putting down" people when I state simple facts that they themselves
never deny. Russ George has never published a paper in a conference
proceedings. He thinks that is not important. I think it is disgraceful,
unprofessional, and rude to the people who attended his lectures. I agree with
Grover Coors. During ICCF6 he said that when people present unprofessional
lectures with meaningless hand-drawn graphs and half-baked results, and when
people fail to submit proper contributions to the proceedings, they should be
banned from lecturing at future ICCF conferences. (Or at least, they should be
asked to submit full papers in advance.) ICCF6 supposed to be a physics
conference, not a PTA meeting!

Do I "put down" the people at the NHE lab? Is that what you call it? They run
the same experiment dozens of times without results. Bockris wrote to them: "I
learned from reports I got from Tom Passell, that IMRA did 28 experiments with
zero results. That is absurd. After six or seven experiments, of course the
method should be changed." I agree with him, and I do not see how either of us
can be accused of "putting them down" by saying so. I listed 17 papers and
letters from leading CF scientists pointing out their mistakes. This is
constructive criticism, if anything is. The experiments will never work,
even if the NHE repeats them another 200 times. They do not contribute
anything to the field. The NHE research is a gift to Morrison and Huizenga. It
appears to prove they are right. A person who has never read the literature
would get that impression.


     Everyone is entitled to their, and their opinion.  Yours continue to
     hammer on the very people who are the salt of the Earth for this field.

If they are the salt of the earth, I suppose they deserve to earn and
recognition for their work. I encourage them to take steps that will lead to
success, instead of pursing policies that can only lead to oblivion.


     Also this is not 1900 but a century later, and flying is easy compared
     to cf.

That's ridiculous. I do not see how anyone who has read biographies or the
original research papers of Wrights would come to that conclusion. Their work
required simultaneous solutions to a whole set of advanced scientific,
mathematical and engineering problems. If they had failed to find a good
solution to any one of these problems, they would have been killed. They faced
a far greater intellectual challenge than cold fusion scientists do.
Furthermore, their experimental technique, their lab notebooks and their
published papers would put all but a handful of the best CF scientists to
shame.


     Your continued actions posting against researchers, are contributing
     some minor part to giving the field a bad name.

No, the facts that I bring to light give the field a bad name. When I point
out that the NHE is ignoring advice from the top people like Fleischmann,
Ikegami and Storms, that makes the NHE look bad. But after all, they deserve
to look bad, don't they? Sloppy work should never be condoned.


     Furthermore, there is no urine-burning o/u device, or rotating coupled
     dynamo o/u device, is there. IMHO, this and some of the other stuff you
     present in IE does more to hurt the real field here, than any mistake
     done by any cf researcher.

I am not the editor of IE. I do not choose the articles, except for the ones I
write or edit. I do not know what urine-burning device you refer to, I must
have skipped that article. Feces contain significant energy that can be tapped
with bio-gas generators. In any case, I see no harm in presenting any
scientific results, no matter how farfetched. Anyone can see by our tone that
we do not always endorse claims just because we publish them. Our readers can
judge these things for themselves.


     Your magazine should show the WISDOM that you claim, as you separate
     within it, in future issues hopefully, the science from the flack.

Take that up with Gene.


     At least we agree with that.  But that [scientific content of the
     research] is what your comments SHOULD be focused on.  IMHO, that (if
     you have an open mind to the science), is when you do your best, Jed.

Science isn't my department. I am not a scientist, thank God! Many other
people can focus on science better than I can. I focus on politics, R&D
policies, and the personalities of the researchers because I believe these are
holding up progress. There is already more than enough unexploited science
lying around. We don't need any more breakthroughs. What we have already could
bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in investment money, enough to launch
an industry. Two years ago I saw demonstration of a 1,300 watts cell by CETI.
It was, in its way, as convincing as the 24 mile, 39 minute flight made by
Wilbur Wright in 1905. The CETI demonstration should have ended all doubts
about the reality of cold fusion, everywhere in the world. Yet it did not. The
controversy drags on, just as the airplane controversy dragged on
unnecessarily from 1905 to 1908. The parallels are uncanny. The reasons both
demonstrations failed to convince the public are obvious to any businessman.
Public relations were botched; the facts were deliberately obfuscated; there
was no follow-through. It is hard to believe, but the fact is, the
demonstrations failed because the inventors (the Wrights and CETI) *wanted
them to fail!* It was deliberate policy. This nearly ruined the Wrights, and
it will ruin CETI or anyone else who persists in this folly. it. Many other CF
scientists are in a position to do convincing demonstrations. At least, they
claim they have devices that produce remarkable effects reliably enough to do
such demos. I know that if they did demonstrations and if they published their
results in proper form, they would be inundated with money. Investors stand
by, waiting for a sane CF scientist to emerge. Yet instead of promoting their
products and soliciting business, investment, and public confidence, the CF
scientists strive to keep their work secret! They actively discourage the
press. They brag about that at international conferences, for crying out loud!
They drive off investors, they alienate potential customers. This is the
craziest thing I have ever seen in my life.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 10:30:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA10002; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530502af60376bdcb8 [199.237.131.237]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:20:47 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Light electron and quantum state n
Resent-Message-ID: <"53jPK3.0.CS2.achEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5381
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:22 PM 3/26/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>To those interested:
>
>The potential V of a point charge at a radius r is k*q/r volts.
>k = 1/4(pi)eo = 8.99E9, q = 1.6E-19 coulombs.
>However, for a charge in orbit the kinetic energy 1/2mv^2 is V/2.
>Thus for an electron of mass m orbiting at radius r, V = k*q/2*r*n^2.
>
>The velocity v in the orbit is, v = c*{1-1/[q*V/(mo*c^2)+1]^2}^1/2.
>
>The relativistic mass Mr for any lepton is, mo/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2.
>
>Thus v^2 = c^2*{1-1/[q*V/(mo*c^2)+1]^2}.
[snip]
>Regards,    Frederick

How do you reconcile the above with the fact the average velocity is zero?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 10:43:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA11615; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:31:48 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:31:48 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530507af606c2f427a [199.237.131.245]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:35:26 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Please stop posting encoded files!
Resent-Message-ID: <"2AjSh.0.Lr2.IqhEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5382
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 9:26 AM 3/27/97, John Logajan wrote:
[snip]
>These are attachments to e-mail engines like those bundled with Netscape.
>The attachements can be images or whatever, and the Netscape e-mail engine
>automatically figures out how to display them.  It is the beginning of
>multi-media e-mail.
>
>Not sure how to stop the trend. :-)
>
>--
> - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com  --  612-699-9472 -


One way to stop some of the problem is to turn off the feature permitting
attachment propagation through the mail list.

Many of us do not use Netscape for reading mail.  I have Netscape, but for
my purposes Eudora is vastly superior, as far as I can tell.

The biggest issue with me is the virus propagation risk. If any attachment
contributor gets infected they can infect users of the virus' target
operating system on the same list (at least for Macs). Many people are on
multiple lists, so mail lists can be a major vector. For this reason I
simply remove attachments without viewing. This won't protect against all
viruses but maybe will against some.

I am curious about the effect on the archives. The attachments don't get
archived, do they?  And what about the digest? Do attachments get passed
through to the digests?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 11:13:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA15706; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:02:06 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:02:06 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <333AC445.220F interlaced.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:02:29 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Evan on Rants
References: <v02130500af5f8eab5ca8 [153.34.203.181]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"C21WW3.0.Jr3.iGiEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5383
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Evan Soule wrote:
> 
(snip)

> >From a longer-term perspective, the problem is not one of "over-population"
> -- as some in the popular media would have one believe.  It's a 'big'
> universe out there.

Yes, Evan, I agree - I see no problem with humans swarming all over the
universe - as technical progress permits.  The idea of overpopulating
the EARTH, however, is more like overpopulating Yellowstone with bison.
It's really a value judgement on a very individual basis.  Being a
"tree hugger" at heart, I hate to see humans displace much more of
"nature" than we already have.  But, with my personal family history
(5 kids) I have absolutely NO credibility on this issue.  I simply muse
about the difficulty of population control given my own experience.

For those who feel we just can't have too many people on Earth, no
problem - again a very individual value judgement.

BTW, if I have sounded anti-technology, NOT the case!  Indeed, I feel
we have passed the "point of no return" long ago.  We humans, like any
other successful life form, carry our share of survival instinct.
We also carry the POWER TO ENFORCE IT!  I think we will need all the
advanced technology we can get - including the very controversial one
of genetic manipulation - to survive this explosive combination of
instinct and power.  The human creed is not survival of the fittest,
it's the survival of EVERYONE.  We will need to be very smart to pull
this off!

My own interest in new energy systems began about 45 years ago with my
interest in space travel.  That's still the core of my interest - but
the idea of CF is too pretty to not grab my attention!  I do have a
warm spot for hot fusion because I feel it may hold the secret to our
first real star-ship drive.  We'll probably need a good fleet of ships
to transport those teeming earth masses OUTWARD.

Flawed but still alive ------- Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 12:40:05 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA24299; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:10:43 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:10:43 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703271405.ZM22356 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:05:12 -0600
In-Reply-To: Remi Cornwall <ad502 iesun9.city.ac.uk>
        "RE: ranting and growth" (Mar 27,  6:02am)
References: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970327114419.17723B-100000 iesun9>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: ranting and growth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"Iyow-3.0.Ux5.1HjEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5384
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mar 27,  6:02am, Remi Cornwall wrote:

> Speaking to non-sciencists, they usually detest us or are scared of us
> why. Witness Mary Shelley and Frankeinstein, and just about every horror
> film with a mad scientist.
>
> I believe scientific inquiry should be impartial and objective. You cannot
> be told, 'don't look there', its immoral because by definition it wouldn't
> be 'a systematic catalogue of knowledge'.
<snip>
> Or do we just have to adapt and have a change in our way of thinking as
> someone put it on vortex a few days ago?

I will be paranoid, and assume you refer to some soapbox master-of-the-obvious
crap I've been cluttering the list with lately.  Sorry about that.  A couple of
messages I got regarding my ramblings seem to indicate most got derailed by the
darker aspects of some of the given examples to substatiate my positions
concerning the original topic.  It is disturbing to me that it was all that got
across in some cases, but the fault is likely mine and my inability to
effectively translate from my head to my fingers.  My fingers never work fast
enough, and rairly is there enough time to explain everything properly.

Short and sweet:  Scientific inquiry should be impartial and objective, but it
never truely is.  There are motives for everything we do, or we wouldn't do
them; funding, fame, fortune, curiosity, etc.  The people that support our work
have motives too, many we are not privy to and often we oppose when revealed.
 IMO non-scientists have learned to fear our activities because in the rapture
of our explorations the consequences or reprocussions of our discoveries are
rairly fully taken into consideration or appreciated prior to release into the
general public.  The phrase 'change in our way of thinking'  is too wordy.  I
would settle for just 'thinking'.  Rather ironic if you consider the
intellectual capacity and activity of the group involved.

No gloom and doom, no anti-science fear mongering, no evironmental wackoism,
just a practical suggestion:  Look before you leap.  That's it.


-john





-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From ekwall2 diac.com  Thu Mar 27 13:00:07 1997
Received: from november.diac.com (root diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA28682; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:00:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from november (ekwall2 ns2.diac.com [207.17.190.73]) by november.diac.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17178; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:58:30 GMT
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:58:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Steve Ekwall <ekwall2 diac.com>
X-Sender: ekwall2 november
To: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Please stop posting encoded files!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970327074612.15072B-100000 eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.3.95.970327135047.14065B-100000 november>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, William Beaty wrote:
> On 27 Mar 1997, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> > To: Vortex
> > Several people here have taken to posting large chunks of text that look like
> > this:
> >      ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC39DB.EF734020
> >      Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> >      eJ8+IisTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAA . . .
> 
> This is a mime attachment.  I've begun to see alot of these in mail I
> received, > 
> From an email sig of one of the eskimo staff:
> 
> WE ARE MICROSOFT OF BORG!  YOU WILL BE ASSIM %^<General Protection Fault
> at location 359w:001e>
> 
Gee, I'm still using Lynx & Pine (Black & White Editor) in ASCII and 
I CAN'T SEE ANY OF THE ABOVE "Stuff".... You've really convienced me now 
to go get that Bigger / Better Browser.
all my e-mail is clean as a whistle .. darn.. sigh.. :)

jSe
------------------oOOOo---( 0 0 )---oOOOo------------------
-=j. Steve Ekwall=-          O             POBox 1255-80150
ekwall2 diac.com                          wk.1.800.798.1100
ekwall2 freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 13:01:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA27666; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v01530500af60878e5a78 [199.237.131.240]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:55:12 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER, Electron Decay into Proton
Resent-Message-ID: <"CiQEV2.0.Bm6.QtjEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5385
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 7:54 AM 3/27/97, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
[snip]
>So,if the potential for an electron (of any rest mass) at infinity
>from R = 2.82E-15 meters (V = k*q/2*2.81E-15) = 255.5 Kev, then if
>it can be made to "fall" into the proton or deuteron it will
>generate 255.5 Kev of energy that will be released in accordance
>with the Larmor synchrotron radiation loss equation and this energy
>may not show up as higher energy ionizing(X-radiation) but only as heat.
>
>Regards,     Frederick

I think there is a problem with this scenario. That problem is the wave
nature of matter. Leptons cannot be viewed as a point, unless of course
along with that assumption they can be in many places at the same time. If
electrons were point objects then they would contain infinitely massive
electrostatic fields, and could not interfere with themselves at slits,
etc.  Either way, wave packet distributed charge, or simultaneous
existences with associated probabilities, charge must be distributed in
their wave function with wavelength lamda = h/p, h Plancks constant, p
momentum.  This means the electrostatic field must therefore dissipate near
the center of charge. (Albeit there is recent evidence published that maybe
this does not happen, and in fact field strength grows faster than 1/r^2 on
approach.  In this scenario, if I understand correctly, a lepton is
continually reborn through nearby pair creation and annihilation of the
orginal particle, in effect transporting the particle all over the
locality.)

As the center of charge of the electron approaches the center of charge of
the nucleus the electrostatic force should dissapate due to mutual waveform
overlap. If the electron/nucleus pair is radiating even a minor amount then
the relative velocity should diminish, decreasing p, and thus increasing
lambda, and diminishing the force, etc., in a feedback loop.  A nearly
complete loss of relative velocity and co-centered waveforms would result,
a Bose condensate.  The lepton waveform would become huge again and, the
attraction to the nucleus now being being near zero, could tunnel
(experience waveform collapse) to another location if some third particle
interacts, even at minimal energies.

An interesting thing about this is that even an electron is too light to
"fall into" a proton and generate high energies. The awaveform is just too
big. The electron needs a significant head start to make its waveform small
enought to actually accelerate into the nucleus without wavefunction ovelap
stopping the acceleration.  The energy from such a head start makes orbital
formation unlikely. The head start energy has simultaneous requirements of
making the initial wavelength small enough (lower limit at a  bit under 2
KeV) and yet must have small enough initial energy that it can radiate away
that energy before leaving the proximity of the nucleus.

Where does the energy come from for the electron waveform to expand and
thus overcome the initial Coulomb attraction?  Zitterbewegung. ZPE.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 14:00:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05436; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:47:20 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:47:20 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC3AB5.3195E550 ristra.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: ranting and growth
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:45:54 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC3AB5.31976BF0"
Resent-Message-ID: <"LstVw2.0.sK1.ahkEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5387
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3AB5.31976BF0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John Steck wrote:

   >No gloom and doom, no anti-science fear mongering, no evironmental =
wackoism,

Agreed. But definitions of those terms might be somewhat subjective, eh? =


   >just a practical suggestion:  Look before you leap.  That's it.

I might add, "looking before you leap" is only useful if one is =
sometimes able and willing to choose not to leap. (or to modify proposed =
action, then remember to look again before re-leaping)

Dan
environmentally cautious wacko

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3AB5.31976BF0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC3AB5.31976BF0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 15:36:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA01758; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:26:38 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:26:38 -0800
Message-Id: <v02130501af60bf6d7220 [153.34.200.91]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:28:43 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: ranting and growth
Resent-Message-ID: <"ciOJw2.0.OR.h8mEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5389
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

snip---
>Short and sweet:  Scientific inquiry should be impartial and objective, but it
>never truely is.  There are motives for everything we do, or we wouldn't do
snip--
>
>John E. Steck
>Motorola Inc.

Dear John,

Appreciated your post.  My only addition would be --- in deference to the
epistemology presented by Arthur Eddington --- that one could rephrase the
above to read "Scientific inquiry should be impartial and absolute
subjective..."

Sincerely,

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood
literally.  All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists
in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form.  The
energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy."
                           --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 15:36:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA01688; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:26:24 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:26:24 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:26:11 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3340d3b7.15150860 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <19970326161056.AAA16023 LOCALNAME>
In-Reply-To: <19970326161056.AAA16023 LOCALNAME>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"0Wi_e2.0.EQ.U8mEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5388
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:10:58 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:

>Horace:
>
>Here are some doodles that show that the Bohr Ro wavelength
>(Lo = 2 Pi*Ro)is 137 times the Compton wavelength of the electron 
>and why Ro/n^2 or n^2*Ro orbit-energy levels have to be even 
>multiples of the Compton wavelength and/or the rest energy of 
>the electron. Or something like that.  <g>
>
[snip]
I suspect that if they weren't the electron would get "out of phase" with
itself, and vanish in a puff of photons :)
Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 18:01:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA07933; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <333B2438.7F1A interlaced.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:51:52 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Camcorder on Hale-Bopp
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ZhLO62.0.tx1.TGoEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5390
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hey, Vortexians!  Forget my downer philosophizing on over-population!
I was just able to get some modest tape footage of Hale-Bopp on my old
Sharp camcorder.  Have any of you tried this?  I had the low-light-
level on and telephoto at max zoom.  The comet and tail show up well
but the screen is a bit "grainy".  Any good tips on using a camcorder
in low-light conditions?

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 18:46:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA28025; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:37:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:37:05 -0800
Message-ID: <333B2ECA.7152 cybermall2000.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:36:58 -0800
From: Carl Leonard <carl cybermall2000.com>
Reply-To: carl cybermall2000.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Camcorder on Hale-Bopp
References: <333B2438.7F1A interlaced.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"wjHUv1.0.pr6.GxoEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5391
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Francis J. Stenger wrote:
> 
> Hey, Vortexians!  Forget my downer philosophizing on over-population!
> I was just able to get some modest tape footage of Hale-Bopp on my old
> Sharp camcorder.  Have any of you tried this?  I had the low-light-
> level on and telephoto at max zoom.  The comet and tail show up well
> but the screen is a bit "grainy".  Any good tips on using a camcorder
> in low-light conditions?
> 
> Frank Stenger

The CCD (image sensor) noise level will go down with decreasing 
temperature.  That should help the "grainy"-ness.  Unfortunately,
if you put the camcorder in the freezer the lens will fog up
when you take it out.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 19:34:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA00794; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:25:00 -0800
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:25:00 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: BG and "Hydrinos"
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 03:55:52 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3340267a.10091802 mail.netspace.net.au>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"bOc9A1.0.GC.BepEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5392
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

If BG contained hydrinos, then it might explain the occasionally larger
than normal reported volume of gas a.o. See also scy.energy.hydrogen
message:


<333A21AF.923 balance.com.au>


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Mar 27 20:17:48 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA22259; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703280407.UAA07350 mom.hooked.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rgeorge mail.hooked.net>
From: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:10:25 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: New list forming for researchers in cold fusion
Reply-to: rgeorge hooked.net
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <970327131531_72240.1256_EHB59-3 CompuServe.COM>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"0UbHy1.0.jR5.JGqEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5393
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

That was the reason Vortex was formed in the first place was to escape from the
tirades that became common place on science.physics.fusion. As Jed seems to be
on a tear again I am exploring setting up a new list to discuss these topics 
away from the maddening craziness sometimes and not infrequently seen on 
Vortex.  If hear from 20 people who are earnest workers in exploring the field 
commonly called cold fusion I will set up a separate list which will be by 
invitation only. Invitations will be issued only if several member of the list 
recommend an individual. The new list can be set up in 48 hours.

Russ George
E-Quest Sciences




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 00:29:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA04070; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:20:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:20:20 -0800
Date: 28 Mar 97 03:18:15 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: New list forming for researchers in cold fusion
Message-ID: <970328081814_100060.173_JHB79-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"V9QqH2.0.S_.2ztEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5394
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Russ,

>> That was the reason Vortex was formed in the first place was to escape from
the
tirades that became common place on science.physics.fusion. <<

Not solely I think - surely the thread was supposed to be restricted to the
Yusmar and cavitation related matters.

I see no objection to starting a new list limited to say electrolytic/electronic
rather than electro/mechanical anomalous events.

As far as selection of membership goes, I think it should have a fixed rule as
to the number of proposers, say two existing members, with a blackball facility
of say three existing members to lock out "undesirables", although I'm not very
happy with the latter in democratic terms.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 05:42:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA23044; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:34:26 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:34:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:33:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970328083338_-569373735 emout16.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"AzyL4.0.-d5.VZyEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5396
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On March 27, Elliot Kennel posted:

     "But if the EUV really carries so much energy (i.e., commensurate
with the excess power claimed by several observers), then I would think it
would be very easy to stick some optical fiber probes down there and
everyone would be able to easily observe precisely what's going on."

Good idea.  Hadn't thought of that.  Has anyone tried it?  (Since Mills
doesn't seem to be working with electrolytic cells anymore, he may not have;
but I don't know, that's just a guess.)

Elliot also said, "nobody can seem to find the hydrinos experimentally (see
Storms critique)."

Does "Storms critique" refer to E. Storms, "Review of the 'Cold Fusion'
Effect," Journal of Scientific Exploration, 10, 2 (Summer 1996), pp. 185-243?
 (I have finally ordered a copy of this important article, but it won't
arrive for another week or two.)

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 05:42:45 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA23017; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:34:25 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:34:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:33:37 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970328083333_-737137191 emout13.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"210aX.0.Xd5.SZyEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5395
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On March 26, Mitchell Swartz posted:

"Good emitters are good absorbers."

Yes.  I should have been clearer about that.  In an electrolytic CF cell,
according to Mills, single-atom hydrogen emits EUV radiation when it is
catalyzed to a state below the standard ground state.  Hydrogen is the
emitter.  The water in the electrolytic CF cell is the absorber of the EUV
that the hydrogen emits, which heats the water, which results in the
observation of XSH.

Does any member of the Vortex group have ready access to the emission
spectrum of water?

Tom Stolper

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 07:03:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA31158; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:54:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:54:10 -0800
Message-ID: <333BDBB3.7635 interlaced.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:54:43 -0500
From: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger interlaced.net>
Reply-To: fstenger interlaced.net
Organization: NASA (Retired)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New list forming for researchers in cold fusion
References: <199703280407.UAA07350 mom.hooked.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"mJ-r_3.0.mc7.GkzEp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5397
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Russ George wrote:
> 
 The new list can be set up in 48 hours.
> 
> Russ George

As a CF lurker, I would be sorry to see you guys go!

Frank Stenger

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 07:19:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA03262; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:09:51 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:09:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960328030259.00697cd4 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 22:02:59 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"OQR8M.0.to.yyzEp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5398
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 08:33 AM 3/28/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On March 26, Mitchell Swartz posted:
>
>"Good emitters are good absorbers."
>
>Yes.  I should have been clearer about that.  In an electrolytic CF cell,
>according to Mills, single-atom hydrogen emits EUV radiation when it is
>catalyzed to a state below the standard ground state.  Hydrogen is the
>emitter.  


  Presumably this collapsing putative subnormal-state hydrogen a la Dr. Mills
(hydrinos) is the radiator.  If it is, then because 
"Good emitters are good absorbers" it should be possible to irradiate 
the putative collapsed hydrinos and get back the orignal size, or what
we have come to commonly regard as ground state hydrogen.  

  That balloon or container reportedly filled with putative hydrinos
should reinflate when it is UV irradiated at that
wavelength.   Does it?  It would be good demonstration.

  How does this fit in with the, apparently thereby less likely, theory of the
etiology of cf being putative lower lying states below the 
customary ground states?

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 07:28:36 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA04244; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:19:21 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:19:21 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <01BC3B47.D60CC850 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: New list forming for researchers in cold fusion
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:15:32 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"UEyAt1.0.E21.t5-Ep" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5399
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Frank Stenger wrote:

  >As a CF lurker, I would be sorry to see you guys go!

Could the new list be set up with two classes of members, "full =
participants" and "lurkers"?
Seems like that would achieve the goal of keeping the discussions =
pertinent. It would also still allow a bit of "fresh air" effect - =
outsiders would be able to see what you're up to, so be better able to =
figure if they would like in, and if so petition for membership. And if =
you're truly into the technology being openly available and distributed, =
it is in that interest to allow people to look in.

Just an idea; don't know whether your software would allow that.

Dan Quickert

BTW, you might want to consider the merits of the "brilliance of idiots" =
principle; I know that it has helped me in programming. There was the =
time when my colleagues and I were struggling with a particularly knotty =
bug, couldn't figure it out for several days. There was *nothing* wrong =
with the code. In walks the student assistant, points to a spot on the =
listing, and says, "is that period supposed to be there?".

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 08:16:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA08630; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:07:07 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:07:07 -0800
Message-ID: <01BC3B4E.86B66700 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
From: Dan Quickert <dequickert ucdavis.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Please stop posting encoded files!
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:03:06 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: <"RZFAg2.0.l62.go-Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5400
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Thanks to Jed Rothwell, I found out that Microsoft Exchange was =
appending a huge batch of MIME encoding to my messages. In case anyone =
else is using Exchange, here's how I stopped it:

In Tools/Options/Services/InternetMail/Properties/MessageFormat,
 uncheck "Use Mime When Sending Messages"

Dan

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 09:04:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA14889; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:54:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:54:36 -0800
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:54:27 -0800
Message-Id: <199703281654.IAA15846 Au.oro.net>
X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien)
Subject: Re: New list forming...
Resent-Message-ID: <"vDcOi1.0.Ze3.AV_Ep" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5401
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Russ,
>
>>> That was the reason Vortex was formed in the first place was to escape from
>the
>tirades that became common place on science.physics.fusion. <<
>

>As far as selection of membership goes, I think it should have a fixed rule as
>to the number of proposers, say two existing members, with a blackball facility
>of say three existing members to lock out "undesirables", although I'm not very
>happy with the latter in democratic terms.

Personally, I think this is a bad proposal.  I follow a number of CF and OU
articles and post about lots of different things.  Vortex is already set up
to deal with lots of kinds of ou devices and everyone can chime in if they
choose.  To split it off and set up black ball mechanisms if I recall is
already in place on vortex, but I am unaware of its usage though others
could tell you about that.  The point is, from my perspective, that I think
that all of the devices are touching on one and the same phenomena,
regardless of the devices they are using to get their ou to take place.

There is a common thread to all ou devices, acceleration of ions.  

The only thing I would recommend is that we make a more strict **voluntary**
commitment to shunning the BS attacks and back and forth about various
devices and patent threats and on and on which have nothing to do with
science.  The past few months I have been just deleting hoards of balloon
and other threads because the chances of anything important being in them
was low and the volume is fairly high.  

But the minute you start closing people out, you start losing new ideas.

Ross Tessien



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 09:47:37 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA21703; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:37:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:37:09 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530501af61b08ddc65 [199.237.131.233]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:41:01 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"gZnlE.0.wI5.470Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5402
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


>On March 27, Elliot Kennel posted:
>
>     "But if the EUV really carries so much energy (i.e., commensurate
>with the excess power claimed by several observers), then I would think it
>would be very easy to stick some optical fiber probes down there and
>everyone would be able to easily observe precisely what's going on."
>

Great idea!  However, is there an EUV transmitting fiber available?  If so,
maybe it is plasic?  I have some specific uses right now for experiments on
the bench and for some planned in the very near future if an EUV
transmitting fiber is available.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 09:53:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA18391; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:43:15 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:43:15 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130503af61c11553b3 [153.34.203.196]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:45:14 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: A Good Friday for a Bit of Levity
Resent-Message-ID: <"s5dia3.0.FV4.mC0Fp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5403
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

  God created heaven and earth.  Quickly, he was faced with a class
action suit for failure to file an environmental impact statement. He
was granted a temporary permit for the project, but was stymied with a
cease and desist order for the earthly part.

  Appearing at the hearing, God was asked why he began his earthly
project in the first place. He replied that he just liked to be
creative.

  Then God said, Let there be light, and immediately the officials
demanded to know how the light would be made. Would there be strip
mining? What about thermal pollution? God explained that the light
would come from a huge ball of fire. God was granted provisional
permission to make light, assuming that no smoke would result from the
ball of fire; that he would obtain a building permit; and to conserve
energy, would have the light half the time.

  God agreed and said he would call the light Day and the darkness
Night. Officials replied that they were not interested in semantics.

  God said, Let the earth bring forth green herbs and such. The EPA
agreed so long as only native seed was used.

  Then God said, Let waters bring forth creeping creatures having life;
and the fowl that may fly over the earth. Officials pointed out this
would require approval from the Department of Game, coordinated with
the Heavenly Wildlife Federation, and the Audobangelic Society.

  Everything was O.K. until God said he wanted to complete the project
in six days. Officials said it would take at least 200 days to review
the application and impact statement. After that there would be a
public hearing.

  Then there would be 10 to 12 months before ...

  At this point, God created Hell.


________________________________________________
>From Rich Benassi via Jack Koenig

Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html


"In speaking of the Energy of the field, however, I wish to be understood
literally.  All energy is the same as mechanical energy, whether it exists
in the form of motion or in that of elasticity, or in any other form.  The
energy in electromagnetic phenomena is _mechanical_ energy."
                           --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 11:01:01 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA31300; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:49:26 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:49:26 -0800
Message-ID: <333C1291.21B2 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:48:50 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Please stop posting encoded files!
References: <01BC3B4E.86B66700 chiltepine.ucdavis.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"2-qzl2.0.we7.qA1Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5404
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dan -

   >  Thanks to Jed Rothwell, I found out that Microsoft
   >  Exchange was appending a huge batch of MIME
   >  encoding to my messages. In case anyone else is
   >  using Exchange, here's how I stopped it:

Yeah, but your message text is still flowing off without wrapping. One
big long line, usually. What's wrong with using Eudora ar Netscape?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 11:03:02 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA26589; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:51:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:51:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960328064532.00691530 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 01:45:32 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Cold Fusion Times volume 5, number 2 out
Resent-Message-ID: <"WXBuS3.0.NV6.WC1Fp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5405
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


  Cold Fusion Times  vol 5 number 2 (Spring 97) will
be in subscribers hands tomorrow.
The cover page is available at the
COLD FUSION TIMES web site http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
which covers some of the details.

  Discussions and a brief survey of some of the content in this issue
include the following which focus mainly on electrolytic, solid
state and gas loading systems - metals loaded with an isotope of hydrogen.

 - More Quality Confirmations of Cold Fusion including
  Correlated Nuclear Signatures consisting of 
    Linked Heat and Helium Measurements, and 
    Linked low-level Excess Neutron and Heat in Pd Systems

 - Anomalous Heat, Anomalous Isotopic Distributions

 - PATENT WARS: CETI challenges Dr. Fleischmann and Pons 

 - More Details on new Cold Fusion movie - "The Saint" ("thumbs up")

 - Nickel, Palladium, and other metal systems
 - Gas Loading, Solid State, Electrolysis Systems
 - Reports from Japan, Italy, China, DoE, ....


  To those that say this field does not exist, a developing
on line reference list (with some papers available with a click)
is located at that URL   http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html

   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 11:05:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA31724; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:54:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:54:20 -0800
Message-ID: <333C1394.6640 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:53:10 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New list forming...
References: <199703281654.IAA15846 Au.oro.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"-6XoH3.0.cl7.QF1Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5406
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ross wrote:

   >  Personally, I think this is a bad proposal.

Me too. Things are already Balkanized enough as it is, with people
splintering off wherever there's disagreement. So civility and a
commitment to try to understand different points of view takes patience
and work, huh? I say deal with it where you are, don't run from the
responsibility.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 11:37:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA02956; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:27:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:27:48 -0800
X-Sender: wharton 128.183.251.148
Message-Id: <v03007800af61c056b67f [128.183.200.195]>
In-Reply-To: <199703281654.IAA15846 Au.oro.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:27:36 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton climate-f.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: New list forming...
Resent-Message-ID: <"YgqB2.0.4k.ok1Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5407
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I would have to agree with Ross:

>But the minute you start closing people out, you start losing new ideas.
>
>Ross Tessien

If someone is doing unjustified attacks without adding anything helpful
then he should be warned and if he continues then he could be excluded.
Jed Rothwell's attacks on Russ George do seem to be inappropriate in view
of Russ's high quality research with significant results exceeding the
noise level.  I think that Jed should reduce his attacks on Russ but
excluding an individual who is perhaps the leading CF investigative
reporter is ridiculous.
 There was also a suggestion that Joe Newman should be excluded. I would
disagree with this also.  Joe's balloon levitation experiment introduced a
new class of potentially useful experiments.  I think that such experiments
could detect the Bloomfield-Brown effect as well as the difference between
the Ampere and the  Lorentz magnetic force and I will be attempting these
experiments.

Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton climate.gsfc.nasa.gov


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 13:58:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA19160; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:49:09 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:49:09 -0800
Message-ID: <333C3BE6.D00 compassnet.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:45:10 -0600
From: Ronald Stiffler <stiffler compassnet.com>
Reply-To: stiffler compassnet.com
Organization: Advanced Technology Group
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Please stop posting encoded files!
References: <v01530507af606c2f427a [199.237.131.245]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"3xA-q1.0.Dh4.Kp3Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5408
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> multiple lists, so mail lists can be a major vector. For this reason I
> simply remove attachments without viewing. This won't protect against all
> viruses but maybe will against some.
> 
This is no joke!!!

I just finished 36 hours of reload on my Alpha after downloading a self
extracting *.exe from the FOGAL Transistor Web Site. Nice of then to
supply the RIPPER Virus, and RIP it did, BIG TIME.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 14:34:09 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA24001; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:24:01 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:24:01 -0800
Date: 28 Mar 97 17:22:03 EST
From: Norman Horwood <100060.173 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex Mail <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: New list forming...
Message-ID: <970328222203_100060.173_JHB106-2 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"tY_OO1.0.xs5._J4Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5409
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ross,

>> But the minute you start closing people out, you start losing new ideas.

Ross Tessien <<

I agree in principle, but as you comment earlier, there are yards of non-science
which seem to emanate from a small number of contributors who seem to revel in
debate at a personal level.  Incidentally, I'm not getting at Jed who, IMHO
usually keeps to the point, but gets understandably frustrated at the lack of
solid commercial progress, and gets carried away with his enthusiasm.

My agreement with a split of threads stemmed from a desire to simplify my own
reading of the input which seems to me to have a natural fault-line at the
electro-mechanical v electronic-electrolysis interface, but I will continue to
lurk in both fields as long as the farmers allow me in. <g>.  BTW I'm happy to
leave membership selection as now - no strong feelings in that area.

Norman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 17:37:47 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA14343; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:26:20 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:26:20 -0800
X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Ed Wall <ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Scientific Dogma
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:25:32 +0000
Message-ID: <19970329012531.AAA9646 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"T0WSX1.0.0W3.w-6Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5410
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ed Wall quoted the Correas:
>
>     "Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
>     research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is
>     the very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their
>     professional endeavor."
>
>     Are the Correas correct?
>
Jed Rothwell responded:

>No, they are flat out wrong. They are silly. Established scientific research
>is not committed to any specific dogmas. It is committed to money (or
>"funding" as they call it). Scientists, being human beings, will believe
>whatever you pay them to believe. You pay the piper, you call the tune. If we
>had CF demos, we would have CF sales. If we had sales, we would have income.
>With income, we would pay scientists, and they would suddenly find a million
>reasons to believe the CF results they have been ignoring for years.
<snip>

Ed:

You are correct that money is power, liquid power that flows in and out of
our possesion.  Knowledge is also power.  Power, however, is much more than
money or knowledge.  It is amorphic and everywhere.  There is a saying in
Washington that "power floats", that is, the perception of where power is,
is where it is.  Whoever can seem credibly to have this attribute can do
powerful things.  Its descriptions defy most quantification and even
qualification.  The political and legal power I refer is analogous with
physical power in many respects ("Power comes from the mouth of a gun."
--Mao).  We all need it to even function.  It is terrifying, dumbfounding,
enthralling, intoxicating, addictive and hard to predict.  It works in us
and through us.  Analogously, the backhoe operator whose bucket hits a power
line experiences power, but the foreman who throws the disconnect switch
experiences control.  That is to say, power is often executed with
inadequate control of oneself or understand of ramifications, so politics is
what it is.

People act according to their beliefs and perceptions.  We live within
psychological environments that are easily disturbed, particularly in the
case when the individual has devoted himself to a discipline requiring much
concentrated mental effort.  The threat of severe criticism is enough to
assure conformity in the peer review system.  Researchers know this.  They
are not being their own worst enemies by avoiding defending belief in OU to
popular media outlets.  They know what happened to others who have done so,
or even just stood their ground (O'M. Bockris, Hagelstein, F&P, and who
knows how many others).  If your research gains attention and Nature or
Science magazine features something negative on it, you have a big problem.
People at the National Science Foundation read these periodicals and make
funding decisions based on it. The bureaucrats are hardly able to make
adequate scientific decisions, considering the volume of information they
must assess and the depth of the controversies (not to mention political
games).  You might inadvertantly endanger funding for more than just your
current interests.  Your whole future research fundability can become
doubtful and you can do serious (unwarranted) damage to your university's
credibility.  You would not be responsible for the damage, but that would be
the perception.  

The story is true about the air traffic controller who was seen working at
McDonald's restaurant after the NATCA (Not Able To Change Anything) strike.
One of his previous associates in the air traffic control tower who did not
strike saw him frying hamburger paddies and told him to carefully maintain
separation between the meat.  A specialist without a specialty is a nobody.
Support the dominant paradigm and succeed.  Reshape the evidence of your
experience into a form that gains support, ignoring what is necessary.  If
you alienate yourself from yourself, you will at least have the comfort of
others who have done the same thing.

Power is used to protect and extend the power of the powerful.  That would
be alright if we all had equal access to power, and were equally and
adequately able to use it, but that is not the case and I have no reason to
expect such conditions anytime soon.  Power tends to concentrate based on
strategic and expeditious factors. If we lived in a free market world, then
your idea that scientists are the stereotypical eggheads who are too
emotionally ignorant to see they are giving away the farm would make sense.
They are trying to preserve themselves.  That is why so many far out
theories are proposed and eliminated ad infinitem.  I am quite frustrated
that credible evidence is ignored because adequate theoretical explanation
is lacking instead of moving ahead into industrial implementation.  It is a
real Catch-22.  Why the plentiful data of XSH is not being seen as such in
the dominant media is probably due to the same kinds of reasons.  The
journalists live or die by their credibility.  They must base their stories
on words of credible scientists who base their words on what they believe
will determine their credibility.
The masses wait for "science" to come to a determination, when it is caught
in an infinite loop.  It seems that there is no definitive test that people
seem to be able to meet to be guaranteed credibility.

That is why I have suggested that if any OU experiments can be marketed as
high school science fare projects, that such a bypass approach will fulfill
Planck's other constant.  Fire their imaginations.  I was amazed to see at a
hobby shop a variety of demonstration devices, like a Sterling-cycle engine,
various solar energy projects, etc. that were really quite expensive.  I
asked the proprietor if he thought there would be much likelihood that an
expensive OU device would be commercially successful.  He explained that he
sells most of these to parents driven to the edge by an offspring who has
put off preparing anything for a science fare and needs something to get a
passing grade or some such.  Price is barely considered.

Just imagine the impact of a growing collection of high school teachers and
inquisitive parents unable to explain why the experiment could be doing what
it was obviously doing.  This doesn't have to be super elaborate.  Growing a
network in the grass roots will lead to political acceptance and consequent
scientific acceptance.

Joe Newman gained ongoing national attention with endorsing testimony of
highly qualified individuals, but no one I know has heard of him.  If you
haven't seem the $10 tape that Evan Soule' sells, I recommend you do so.  It
wasn't made by Soule'.  It is a collection of mass media video, the kind of
appearances that OU researchers seem to be trying to accomplish, but he
seems stalled now.

You may succeed in goading someone out of their greed by some of your
comments, but more likely, you credibility in their eyes suffers because the
researchers understand these things, even if they don't admit it to
themselves, but you don't seem to understand.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 17:40:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA14872; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:31:08 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:31:08 -0800
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:30:56 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199703290130.TAA27471 natasha.eden.com>
X-Sender: little mail.eden.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little eden.com>
Subject: Re: New list forming...
Resent-Message-ID: <"hitUD3.0.Ie3.R37Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5411
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I like this list and the brains that populate it.

What I don't like the signal/noise ratio.  

Our main charter is:  discussion of experimental evidence of o-u devices.

I'd like to see less discussion of:

1. Off-the-wall theories looking for phenomena to explain.
2. Anything about patents.
3. World energy requirements and the true cost of energy.
4. The current status of hot fusion research.
5. etc.

These are all intensely interesting subjects but they don't apply directly
to our main charter.  Once we confirm the existence of a genuine o-u device
THEN we can open the discussion up to everything under the sun.

Until then, I'd like to spend more time WORKING on the problem and less time
WADING through unproductive messages.

Scott Little 
EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West,  Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185 (voice)       512-346-3017 (FAX) 
little eden.com            http://www.eden.com/~little

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 20:22:52 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA15872; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:12:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:12:29 -0800 (PST)
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CF in EUV
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 05:12:02 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <33408c69.14456353 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <2.2.32.19960328030259.00697cd4 world.std.com>
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960328030259.00697cd4 world.std.com>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"zwjsl2.0.wt3.hQ9Fp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5412
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Wed, 27 Mar 1996 22:02:59 -0500, Mitchell Swartz wrote:
[snip]
>  Presumably this collapsing putative subnormal-state hydrogen a la Dr. Mills
>(hydrinos) is the radiator.  If it is, then because 
>"Good emitters are good absorbers" it should be possible to irradiate 
>the putative collapsed hydrinos and get back the orignal size, or what
>we have come to commonly regard as ground state hydrogen.  
[snip]
It could be just me, but I get the very strong impression from going
through Mills' workings, that the "sub-normal" states are NON-radiative.
This is precisely why they are not normally detected. IOW in order to get
the H atom to collapse to one of these states, a collision with another
atom is necessary. I presume that when this occurs, the energy difference
between the normal ground state, and the new "sub-normal" state is
transferred to the other atom. The example Mills himself uses is the
oxidation of potassium atoms to the K++ state.
Is it then reasonable to assume that if such states are NON-radiative, that
they are also non-absorptive? (This is a question I would also like to put
to Mills).
PS The above doesn't necessarily imply that I believe in the existence of
Hydrinos. While I find the initial model and consequent theory very
appealing, I have a funny feeling about the way the concept of hydrinos
themselves are introduced. Particularly the point about such states
containing "multiples of the proton charge", which leads me very much to
wonder if this isn't really a calculation of single electron heavier atoms
rather than shrunken hydrogen atoms. Unfortunately my math skills are not
quite up to it.
(See also SPF message 199703281551.KAA55993 pilot04.cl.msu.edu ).



Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 20:30:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA07473; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:19:02 -0800
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:19:02 -0800
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:18:54 -0800
Message-Id: <199703290418.UAA07566 Au.oro.net>
X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien)
Subject: Re: New list forming...
Resent-Message-ID: <"J4iVa.0.hq1.rW9Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5413
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote;
>I like this list and the brains that populate it.

Agree.
>
>What I don't like the signal/noise ratio.  

Agree.
>
>Our main charter is:  discussion of experimental evidence of o-u devices.

As it should be.
>
>I'd like to see less discussion of:
>
>1. Off-the-wall theories looking for phenomena to explain.
>2. Anything about patents.
>3. World energy requirements and the true cost of energy.
>4. The current status of hot fusion research.
>5. etc.

Agree
>
>These are all intensely interesting subjects but they don't apply directly
>to our main charter.  Once we confirm the existence of a genuine o-u device
>THEN we can open the discussion up to everything under the sun.
>
>Until then, I'd like to spend more time WORKING on the problem and less time
>WADING through unproductive messages.

And agree.

I think that Scotts comments are 100 percent in accord with my feelings for
what this is worth.  I think that the Newman stuff of bantering threats and
patents and law suits etc. etc. is a total waste of time.  If you don't want
your stuff to be public domain, then don't post it, it is that simple.  But
if you want to discuss things openly, then lets discuss them.

I have been simply deleting dozens of articles for the past couple months
because there has been so much noise that the discussions weren't even
interesting any more.  Now and then, an interesting thread would come up.

If all of the discussion was pertaining to ideas and how things work then
fine, I'll read them but when there is one technical article and 6 BS
commentaries it turns into a waste of time.  Frankly, even this thread is a
waste of time but perhaps wading through this one will help to clean up the
other garbage.

I don't have a problem with banning people who fail to remain within a
charter and who continue to rant and rave.  I just don't think that people
ought to be banned because they are asking dumb questions (or seemingly so).
I don't consider myself a leader in this group at all, but it was very
interesting a year ago and lately it has been a bunch of junk.

I think we ought to just get back to work on the ideas.  And I think we need
a charter if we don't already have one so that people who send in email that
is other than to the point can get some warnings.  The whole Newman episode
was IMO, a real mess.  I guess I have missed some of Jed's postings people
have objected to and have enjoyed a lot of his commentaries detailing what
happened here or there.  That is what this is about.  What did Barry find
out in Texas at the science fair, what did so and so find out over there,
when Scott tested this what happened, what do we know about Tampere, etc. etc.  

That is what this group ought to be about, IMO.

I think that this kind of post, and the others ought to just be banned as it
has led to my simply deleting all of the vortex stuff on many many
occaisions.  There is too much noise.  Can we all just agree to stick to
business, and each steer things back toward business and avoid trapsing off
on political tangents?  Nothing is worse than to rant about something and
then have no one come back.  Ranters hate that, so just give it to them,
give them nothing at all!

Later, Ross Tessien



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Mar 28 22:46:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA27676; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:38:29 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 22:38:29 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <v02130500af627646bf7f [153.34.202.179]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:39:58 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: New list forming...
Resent-Message-ID: <"9GFge.0.Em6.YZBFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5414
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Scott Little wrote;
>Our main charter is:  discussion of experimental evidence of o-u devices.

Good point.
_________________________________________________

DECLARATION FOLLOWING EXTENSIVE TESTING OF 5,000 LB AND 900 LB UNITS

This letter represents a disclosure of investigations and experimentation
which I have performed on Joseph Newman's energy generating machine.  The
fact is that every experiment which I have performed shows that the energy
output of the device is indeed larger than the energy input.  Some examples
are:

1) The electrical energy output is measured at more than four times the
electrical energy input. [Note: This _does not_ violate the Law of
Conservation of Matter/Energy if one considers the source of the additional
output to be the conductor coil in accordance with E = mc^2.]

2) Acting as a motor, Joseph Newman's device performed mechanical work in
excess of ten times the electrical energy input.

3) Joseph Newman's device delivers over ten times the torque of a
commercial D.C. permanent magnet motor rated at 80% efficiency.  However,
during this test Joseph Newman's device is consuming only a fraction of the
input power of the commercial motor.

4) These results must be taken seriously.  Joseph Newman has made the
observation that huge magnetic fields may be generated with minimal power
input in a large coil wound with large diameter wire.  This coil creates a
very large torque on a suitably large permanent magnet.  In operation, the
batteries powering the coil consume little power and discharge at a very
slow rate.  Yet the motor delivers considerable mechanical and/or
electrically generated power.

It is fascinating to observe that Joseph Newman has arrived at this
invention on the basis of his theoretical work, coupled with many years of
experimentation on electromagnetic energy.  He has been rigorously
consistent in the development of a model of matter and energy, and
furthermore has fortified his model with experimentation.  His model is
based on the assumption that matter is concentrated electromagnetic energy.
He predicts that this energy (E=MC^2) may be released in a controlled way,
and his experiments verify the prediction.

The future of the human race may be dramatically uplifted by the large
scale commercial development of this invention.  It is indeed painful to
see it lying dormant.

Dr. Roger Hastings, Ph.D.
Principal Physicist, Unisys Corporation
Former Associate Professor of Physics
North Dakota State University

------------------------------------------------------
[Note: Since the testing performed on the above Newman Motors, numerous
improvements/innovations have been made to subsequent Newman Motor
designs.]


Evan Soule'
Director of Information
NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS
josephnewman earthlink.net
(504) 524-3063
P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684
Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087
          http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html
          http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html




"I cannot conceive curved lines of force without the conditions of a
physical existence in that intermediate space."  --- MICHAEL FARADAY


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 00:10:16 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA06643; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:01:52 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 00:01:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703290801.JAA41564 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:40:00 CET
Subject: Cold Fusion in India
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"LsV1P3.0.hd1.hnCFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5415
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Somebody asked about Indian physicists doing cold fusion work before Pons & 
Fleischman.

Professor C.S.Upadhyay at the M.R.Engineering College at Jaipur, India, 
published some of his work on cold fusion already in 1979.

Upadhyay uses palladium and deuteriumoxide. He uses a form of 
electromagnetic (?) excitation to trigger the reaction. He has some unusual 
theory about the triggering of cold fusion. It uses the concept of "optical 
electromagnetism" if I remember correctly.

Upadhyay has reached very high rates of transmutations in his experiments. 
Upadhyay demonstrates his results to visitors.

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 02:07:56 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA12877; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:17:36 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 01:17:36 -0800 (PST)
Date: 29 Mar 97 04:14:49 EST
From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 CompuServe.COM>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: New list forming...
Message-ID: <970329091449_100433.1541_BHG41-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"wvlIQ2.0.793.juDFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5416
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Lawrence,

 > I think that such experiments could detect the Bloomfield-Brown
 > effect as well as the difference between the Ampere and the
 > Lorentz magnetic force and I will be attempting these experiments.

Bifield-Brown - I think.

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 03:22:14 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA13153; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:13:36 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:13:36 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970329112033.016ac874 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:20:33 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Fogal site is clean
Resent-Message-ID: <"0fjv32.0.RD3.UbFFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5417
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 03:45 PM 3/28/97 -0600, you wrote:


>I just finished 36 hours of reload on my Alpha after downloading a self
>extracting *.exe from the FOGAL Transistor Web Site. Nice of then to
>supply the RIPPER Virus, and RIP it did, BIG TIME.
>
>

Hey Ron!  Just a friendly question.  What government organization 
or corporation pays you to spread disinformation?  Just curious.

There are no self-executable files at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/fogal_device/

...and never have been.

Gary Hawkins
 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 03:23:58 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA02768; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:15:59 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:15:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970329112250.016d51c8 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 03:22:50 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Fogal site is clean
Resent-Message-ID: <"L5si92.0.6h.jdFFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5418
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>There are no self-executable files at:

I mean, self-extracting exe's of course.  It's late.  They 
are both .zip and always have been.

Gary

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 05:10:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA06873; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 05:02:36 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 05:02:36 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <333B32AD.1B01 verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:53:33 +0300
From: Hamdi Ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
Organization: Orchestra
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b2 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: CF in EUV
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"4iUzh1.0.Jh1.gBHFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5419
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I think a practical method to confirm EUV from CF cell:

It may be possible to check effectively EUV radiation inside the cell by
adding some fluorescent materials into electrolytic (soluble or
particle). At least some UV photons can reach to  the fluorescent
material before absorbed by the water. The effectiveness of this method
can be tested by illuminating directly such a solution by an external UV
or EUV source.

Hamdi Ucar
hamdix verisoft.com.tr


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 08:42:17 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA01480; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:32:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:32:37 -0800
Message-Id: <199703291632.IAA19947 popmail.UCSD.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bssimon helix.ucsd.edu>
From: "Bart Simon" <bssimon helix.ucsd.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:34:15 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion in India
Reply-to: bssimon helix.ucsd.edu
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <199703290801.JAA41564 sdn5.csc.dk>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
Resent-Message-ID: <"7Azv93.0.2N.aGKFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5420
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Greetings,

In a recent message Anders wrote:

> Professor C.S.Upadhyay at the M.R.Engineering College at Jaipur, India, 
> published some of his work on cold fusion already in 1979.
> 
> Upadhyay uses palladium and deuteriumoxide. He uses a form of 
> electromagnetic (?) excitation to trigger the reaction. He has some unusual 
> theory about the triggering of cold fusion. It uses the concept of "optical 
> electromagnetism" if I remember correctly.

Does anybody have the full reference for this work handy?  And 
on an outside chance, does anyone have a contact address for 
Upadhyay? 

cheers,
Bart Simon (bssimon helix.ucsd.edu)


============================================
Bart Simon
Dept. of Sociology/Science Studies-0533
University of California at San Diego (UCSD)
9500 Gilman Dr.
La Jolla, CA, 92093-0533

phone: 619-534-0491/fax: 619-534-3388
===========================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 08:52:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA05197; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:42:57 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:42:57 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970329043713.00695b68 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 23:37:13 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion in India
Resent-Message-ID: <"7hNfc3.0.7H1.GQKFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5421
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 08:40 AM 3/28/97 CET, Anders wrote:

>Professor C.S.Upadhyay at the M.R.Engineering College at Jaipur, India, 
>published some of his work on cold fusion already in 1979.
>
>Upadhyay uses palladium and deuteriumoxide. He uses a form of 
>electromagnetic (?) excitation to trigger the reaction. He has some unusual 
>theory about the triggering of cold fusion. It uses the concept of "optical 
>electromagnetism" if I remember correctly.
>
>Upadhyay has reached very high rates of transmutations in his experiments. 
>Upadhyay demonstrates his results to visitors.
>

  What is the exact published reference, please?

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 10:51:53 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA30206; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:42:11 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:42:11 -0800
Message-ID: <333D6175.4C29 worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:37:42 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New list forming...
References: <970329091449_100433.1541_BHG41-1 CompuServe.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"6jbEL.0.qN7.1AMFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5422
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Chris Tinsley wrote:

 > "Bifield-Brown - I think."

I think that's Biefeld-Brown. Perhaps there are two fields though, I
don't know. 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 12:25:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA11690; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:12:01 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:12:01 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970329200923.009ffee4 mail.eskimo.com>
X-Sender: ghawk mail.eskimo.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:09:23 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawk eskimo.com>
Subject: Info on that
Resent-Message-ID: <"TBU5Z3.0.rr2.eTNFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5423
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ron has explained to me the conditions that led him to 
think it might have been something picked up from either 
the vortex list or the Fogal website that caused his 
system crash.

Information from the Mcafee site ( http://www.mcafee.com ), 
however, indicates the following:

        "Ripper is an encrypting, memory resident, 
        Master Boot Record (MBR)/Boot Sector infector. 

        <snip>

        Method of Infection

        The only way to infect a computer with an MBR/Boot Sector 
        infector is to attempt to boot from an infected 
        floppy diskette. The boot sector of the diskette has the 
        code to determine if the diskette is bootable,"

The virus that affected the system therefore had to have come from 
a floppy disk.  Add to this that there have never been any '.exe's' 
on the Fogal website, and it is clear that another factor was 
responsible, and also not the vortex list.

The Fogal website is at:  http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/fogal_device/

Tom Bearden has put together a glossary of the terms he uses in his 
paper on the theory behind the Fogal Transistor, and mailed it to me.  
Will let you know when it is on those pages.

Gary Hawkins 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Horizon Technology                   Tomorrow's Technology Today
http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/                        Seattle, WA
------------------------------------------------------------------

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 12:43:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA16780; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:32:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:32:05 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530500af630335c441 [199.237.131.250]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:35:55 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Dogma, CF, Personal attacks, no data
Resent-Message-ID: <"VCqga2.0.264.3nNFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5424
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


>Ed Wall quoted the Correas:
>>
>>     "Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
>>     research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is
>>     the very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their
>>     professional endeavor."
>>
>>     Are the Correas correct?
>>


>Jed Rothwell responded:
>
>>No, they are flat out wrong. They are silly. Established scientific research
>>is not committed to any specific dogmas. It is committed to money
[snip]


>Ed:
>
>You are correct that money is power, liquid power that flows in and out of
>our possesion.  Knowledge is also power.[snip] ("Power comes from the
>mouth of >a gun." --Mao).  [snip] The threat of severe criticism is enough
>to
>assure conformity in the peer review system.  Researchers know this.
{snip]
> They know what happened to others [snip] ...
>  (O'M. Bockris, Hagelstein, F&P, and who
>knows how many others). [snip]


That the Correas are correct is clear if you consider their statement is a
tautology. Science *is* a dogma. Science is a social phenomenon. This is
not to say that is bad. On the contrary, science works. It has been
fruitful in producing knowledge, even though the application of the
knowledge has been on occasion doubtful in its results.

I think there is a real problem affecting science that is far more sinister
than its dogmatic nature. That problem is in the social fabric from which
science is built.  The problem is an intolerant intellectual fascism
embodied in the very idea of political correctness. It is the notion that
because "we" are right "we" therefore have the right and duty to shout down
or otherwise crush the opposition by personal attack as opposed to
intellectual attack and debate of  proposed ideas.  It is the notion that
personal attack, condescention, personal threat, ostracism, and even worse
forms of personal abuse are appropriate means to attack ideas, and even
more ludicrously to attack scientific concepts, testable statements about
the true nature of reality.  It is appalling that this intellectual fascism
is an affliction centered in the very bastions of free speech, institutions
founded on the free exchange of not only verifiable scientific ideas, but
also the more subjective and often unprovable, untestable, social and
humanitarian ideas.

Perhaps the most notable and clear example of the advanced progression of
intellectual fascism is the treatment of Bockris and the removal of the Low
Temperature Transmutation Conference from Texas A&M campus.  There are
certainly more vile and destructive examples, but none more exemplary of
the severity of the problem because the action was put to a departmental
vote and the decision was unanimous.

This is a very dangerous situation that our school systems and universities
are turing out vast numbers of students in this mind set, sheep for the
fascist slaughter. It is no wonder that intellectuals of this ilk, so
adapted to authority as opposed to being trained in morality, ethics,
logic, and critical thinking, are susceptable to cultism, no matter how
absurd. It is no longer so surprising that cult members can entertain the
cognitive dissonance of packing their bags for an out of body trip to a
flying saucer, or the morgue.  If the sheep can be lured by the absurd,
what about the more sensible and desireable promises of a new age Hitler?
What happens when the message is actually popular, seems sensible, and the
true evil of fascism is an unknown, buried in past generations?

As to CF and the host of related free energy investigations churning out
anomalies for study, they are like  Jesse Owens, who, in a quantitative
way, and right in the den of fascism, demonstrated the folly of the notion
of Arian superiority in all things.  Natural law can not be determined
politically, by legislation, or by fiat from some earthly dictator. The
question is whether our society can sustain an effort to find scientific
truth if we are blinded by authority as to its nature and importance, and
distracted from true work by conflict.  If the greenhouse effect is beyond
the point of reforming a life sustaining equilibrium, the fate of life on
earth may lie in the dedicated cooperation of scientific mavericks. It was
a lucky and maybe deliberate thing that Bohr's team could not solve the
problems of his day in the confines of the Nazi regime. What of our fate
today?

The problems of vortex of late seem related more to personal attacks than
to the content free quality of the posts.  It is true that there has been a
dearth of reports of new experimental data, but the formost problem seems
to be that the resulting void has been filled with posts which get off
track, which involve discussing people, personalities instead of ideas and
facts.

Maybe a partial solution here is that vortexians should be quicker to point
out personal attacks vs idea discussion.  For example, above,  "No, they
are flat out wrong.", is marginal but basically an attack on an idea. "They
are silly." is a personal attack and could be politely noted.

As for me, I have no data to report at this time, but that is not to say I
am not collecting any.  I am now working in several areas, though burning
the candle at both ends and losing some effectiveness.  My budget and
experiental capabilites have grown by a signifiant factor recently and I
hope to have some interesting reports (nul or not!) when the work
(regardles of its modest nature) is completed to some reasonable point in
the months ahead.   It seems the onus should be on those who have
accumulated years worth of experimental data and ideas and not reported
them.

Happy Birthday to Martin Fleischmann and Frederick Sparber.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 12:52:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA18422; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:43:46 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:43:46 -0800
Message-Id: <199703292043.PAA28352 mail.enter.net>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chronos mailman.enter.net>
From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos enter.net>
Organization: Applied Science Associates
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, Larry Wharton <wharton@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:52:07 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Biefield-Brown Effect
Reply-to: chronos enter.net
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Resent-Message-ID: <"8I6no2.0.mV4.1yNFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5425
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          Self <Single-user mode>
To:            Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>,monteverde@worldnet.att.net
Subject:       Biefield-Brown Effect
Reply-to:      chronos enter.net
Date:          Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:47:32 -0500

On 29 Mar 97 at 8:37, vortex-l eskimo.com wrote:

> From: Lawrence Wharton
> Date: a few days ago
> I think that such experiments could detect the Bloomfield-Brown
> effect as well as the difference between the Ampere and the Lorentz
> magnetic force and I will be attempting these experiments.

-----------------
> From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541 CompuServe.COM>
> Date sent: 29 Mar 97 04:14:49 EST
> Bifield-Brown - I think.

-----------------
> From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
> I think that's Biefeld-Brown. Perhaps there are two fields though, I
> don't know. 


Rick is correct, according to the website "fully sanctioned by the
Thomas Townsend Brown Family" at URL

http://www.brown.soteria.com/text/

Quote from "The Application of the Biefield-Brown Effect to the 
Solution of the Problems of Space Navigation" by Mason 
Rose, Ph.D., President (PDF)

http://www.brown.soteria.com/text/docs/rose.htm

-----------------quote on ------------

In 1923, Dr. Biefield, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Dennison
University and a former classmate of Einstein in Switzerland,
suggested tohis protoge, Townsend Brown, certain experiments which led
to the discovery of the Biefield-Brown effect, and ultimately to the
electrogravitational energy spectrum (in actuality, it was Brown who
first observed the effect and brought it to the attention of Dr.
Biefield, who suggest further experiments to determine the origin of
and enhance the effect - Juniper). Biefeld wondered if an electrical
condenser, hung by a thread, would have a tendency to move when it was
given a heavy electrical charge. Townsend Brown provided the answer.
There is 
  such a tendency.

-----------------end quote---------

They are selling "documents as well as invention specifications 
which, until now, have not been available to the general 
public." 

There are plans for Plasma-Dynamic Loudspeakers and Microphones! --
but no T.T. Brown T-Shirts.




Best regards, 
Bob Flower

=======================================================
Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates
Quality Control Engineering
Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer
=======================================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 13:06:46 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA20248; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:57:37 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:57:37 -0800
Message-Id: <v02130512af6340db0303 [153.34.204.29]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:59:41 -0600
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule)
Subject: Re: Dogma, CF, Personal attacks, no data
Resent-Message-ID: <"3-VJ43.0.Iy4.09OFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5427
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

snip----
>
>Maybe a partial solution here is that vortexians should be quicker to point
>out personal attacks vs idea discussion.  For example, above,  "No, they
>are flat out wrong.", is marginal but basically an attack on an idea. "They
>are silly." is a personal attack and could be politely noted.
>
>As for me, I have no data to report at this time, but that is not to say I
>am not collecting any.  I am now working in several areas, though burning
>the candle at both ends and losing some effectiveness.  My budget and
>experiental capabilites have grown by a signifiant factor recently and I
>hope to have some interesting reports (nul or not!) when the work
>(regardles of its modest nature) is completed to some reasonable point in
>the months ahead.   It seems the onus should be on those who have
>accumulated years worth of experimental data and ideas and not reported
>them.
>
>Happy Birthday to Martin Fleischmann and Frederick Sparber.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner

Thanks for a well-written post.

Evan Soule'


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 13:17:29 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA20124; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:56:14 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:56:14 -0800
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 12:56:03 -0800
Message-Id: <199703292056.MAA14514 Au.oro.net>
X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien)
Subject: Why is this posted Horrace? Re: Dogma, CF, Personal attacks, no data
Resent-Message-ID: <"AspZS2.0.Lw4.j7OFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5426
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Horace, and others, why are you posting this garbage?  Why am I reading it.
Didn't the threads on the political BS have any affect?  Why can't we all
just shut up.  I am making no comments about the below garbage.  I am
pointing an accusing finger at Horace and asking him to stop posting this
junk.  I will do so for a while for other people too who post junk that is
not aimed as science.  
Please, do not respond to this post, just nip this piece of BS right here
and drop it as there is nothing to be said.

 We know what is appropriate and what is political.  This is just crap.

If you guys want this stuff to be here, just go on and continue the
commentary.  If vortex is going to be a political CF discussion group, then
I will likely remove my name from the list.



Here Ed Wall posted crap.

>>Ed Wall quoted the Correas:
>>>
>>>     "Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
>>>     research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is
>>>     the very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their
>>>     professional endeavor."
>>>
>>>     Are the Correas correct?
>>>
>

Here Jed responded with more crap.

>
>>Jed Rothwell responded:
>>
>>>No, they are flat out wrong. They are silly. Established scientific research
>>>is not committed to any specific dogmas. It is committed to money
>[snip]
>
>
>>Ed:
>>

Here Horace responded with more non scientific crap.


>
>That the Correas are correct is clear if you consider their statement is a
>tautology. Science *is* a dogma.  snip


Why is this in my in basket?  Please don't respond, I don't care.  And any
response does not belong there either.

I feel like a moron to have to say this, but I am making no comment on the
points raised in the article, I am instead raising the point that the
article should not be here in the first place.

Ross Tessien

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 17:07:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA17367; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 16:59:44 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 16:59:44 -0800
From: rvanspaa netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CF in EUV
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 00:59:31 GMT
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3344b509.5255514 mail.netspace.net.au>
References: <333B32AD.1B01 verisoft.com.tr>
In-Reply-To: <333B32AD.1B01 verisoft.com.tr>
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"nUdve3.0.CF4._hRFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5428
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:53:33 +0300, Hamdi Ucar wrote:

>I think a practical method to confirm EUV from CF cell:
>
>It may be possible to check effectively EUV radiation inside the cell by
>adding some fluorescent materials into electrolytic (soluble or
>particle). At least some UV photons can reach to  the fluorescent
>material before absorbed by the water. The effectiveness of this method
>can be tested by illuminating directly such a solution by an external UV
>or EUV source.
>
>Hamdi Ucar
>hamdix verisoft.com.tr
I suspect that this may already have been done, though I have not seen any
results reported on this list. Are experimenters keeping "mum" about this
for some reason?


Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
temperature.
"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
PS - no SPAM thanks!
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 19:16:39 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA02906; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:07:52 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:07:52 -0800
From: VCockeram aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:07:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970329220714_210633848 emout16.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: BLACKLIGHT POWER(origins)
Resent-Message-ID: <"QKaAu2.0.Kj.6aTFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5429
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi Vtxrs,

    With all the posts on BlackLightPower spilling out of my monitor I
thought this post dated 4 Nov 1991 would be of interest to the group;

Originally-from:  <j farrel%fandm.bitnet vm1.nodak.edu>
Newsgroups:  Sci.Physics.Fusion
Subject:  Excess heat
Date:  4 NOV 1991 21:47:47
Organization:  Sci.Physics.Fusion/Mail Gateway


Richard Schroeppel <rcs cs.arizona.edu> asks why the paper by Mills and
Kneizys, Fusion Technology 20 (1991) 65, has not recieved more attention and
if there has been any duplication.

1. The paper was published in Fusion Technology. Not many institutions
recieve this journal--thus, not much attention.

2. Mills, Kneizys and Farrell are not calorimetry people. (although when you
get this kind of excess heat, how good do you have to be? Furthermore, we had
some excellent calorimetry people come in and help us).

3. Mills and Fallell have tried to publish the theory elsewhere--Phys. Rev.
Lett.,for example. Some of the referees have been favorable (vety creative,
intriguing, and so on). But trying to publish a theory that overturns
Schrodinger mechanics is quite difficult (as you might expect).

4. Yes, we have had others duplicate the work. One internationally famous
electrochemist has submitted his results to Nature. As you know, Nature has
not published **ANY** positive cold-fusion research. My guess is that this
work will not be published either.

5. I am not at liberty to give you the names of all who have had positive
results with our system (0.6 M K2C03 with a Ni cathode and a Pt anode). to my
knowledge, six labs have successfully repeated the work. I can give you the
following: V.C.Noninski (508)879-4457--His work has been accepted for
publication in Fusion Technology. James McBreen, Brookhaven National Labs
(Upton, NY).

6. The work reported in Fusion Technology was essentially a 100 mw reactor.
We have had a 100 W reactor working for about one month. 30-50 W in, that is
(Vappl - 1.48)         I = 30-50 W.  100-120 W out. There is little or no
recombination of hydrogen and oxygen.

7. This week we should have a 1000 W reactor going.

8. We have **never** had a K+/Ni system that did not produce excess heat
(unless we poisoned the electrode). As far as we can tell this system is 100%
reproducible.

TIPS ON REPEATING THE EXPERIMENT

1. Use normal water, H2O not D2O, unless you are looking for tritum or
neutrons. Essentially all of the heat is **NOT** caused by fusion but by some
other physical process--namely shrinkage of hydrogen atoms from the N=1 state
to the N=1/2 state. (I know this is hard to believe, particularly for someone
like me who has taught quantum chemistry for 25 years, but life **is**
stranger than fiction.)

2. Ni foil or wire can be used. The Ni should be clean. Handle the Ni with
cotton or plastic gloves. Do **not** clean the Ni nitric acid or organic
solvents.

3. About 0.6 M K2CO3 is best. Lower and higher concentrations work but not as
well.

4. Use a current density of 1 ma/cm2 with a foil or 2 ma/cm2 with a wire.
Most researchers are using current densities that are **too high**. The
object is to form H atoms on the surface of the NiHx. These H atoms then can
undergo a catalytic shrinkage in the presence of K+ (or other suitable ion).
If a high current density is used the H atoms are forced off the surface.
(The Ni does not enter into the reaction, it simply is a surface on which the
H atoms can form.)

5.It is important to electropolish the Ni cathode before beginning the
calorimetry. That is, run the electrolysis (preferably in the calorimetry
cell) for about half an hour to an hour with the Ni as the anode and the Pt
as the cathode.


OTHER POSSIBLE SYSTEMS

Thousands of other systems are possible. Unfortunately, most of these are
ions or ion combinations that are difficult or impossibe to make. We have
tried many of the chemically reasonable ones and the K+ system works best.
PD2+/Li+ works, but not as well. Note PD2+, not PD metal. We believe that to
the extant that PD/Li+ works, it is PD2+ on or near the surface of the PD
that is the active species. Rb+ works but not as well. Li+, Na+, Cs+ do not
work. Ti2+ does work. Here again to the extent that Ti/D2 gives neutrons, we
believe that the active species is Ti2+. (Whenever neutrons are given off,
enormous amounts of heat are given off as well. The heat does not come from
fusion itself but from shrinkage of the H atoms or D atoms to a size
sufficiently small that fusion can occur.)

John Farrell
Franklin & Marshall College
==========================end of 1991 post======================

Regards,
Vince
Las Vegas Nevada


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Mar 29 20:59:54 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA15412; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:51:06 -0800
Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:51:06 -0800
Message-ID: <333DF100.4B worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:50:30 -1000
From: Rick Monteverde <monteverde worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: monteverde worldnet.att.net
Organization: Green Mountain Enterprises
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown Effect
References: <199703292043.PAA28352 mail.enter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Resent-Message-ID: <"ohnTR3.0.km3.v4VFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5430
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Robert G. Flower wrote:

> Rick is correct, according to the website "fully sanctioned by the
> Thomas Townsend Brown Family" at URL
> 
> http://www.brown.soteria.com/text/


I am? Thanks, but I wrote "Biefeld-Brown" and it wasn't a typo. For some
reason I think that's what it is, actually read a discussion of the
spelling somewhere. Might be that way in some of the patent texts. 

However it's spelled, the only thing that really matters for discussion
here are ideas on how to check for this effect without getting fooled by
the usual electrostatic causes. I'd like to know how to do that. 

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 05:38:19 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA21153; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:30:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:30:22 -0800
From: Tstolper aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 08:29:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970330082945_1453400465 emout09.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re:  CF in EUV
Resent-Message-ID: <"fUXQp.0.RA5.jhcFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5431
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

On March 28, Mitchell Swartz said, "it should be possible to irradiate 
the putative collapsed hydrinos and get back the orignal size, or what
we have come to commonly regard as ground state hydrogen."

Yes, I think that's right.

Mitch also wrote, "That balloon or container reportedly filled with putative
hydrinos should reinflate when it is UV irradiated at that wavelength.   Does
it?  It would be good demonstration."

Mills' published work includes the claim that hydrinos combine into dihydrino
molecules, so I think that those Mylar balloons would be filled with
dihydrino molecules, not free hydrinos.  And air is opaque in the extreme
ultraviolet (EUV), which is one reason why the EUV is a tough region of the
spectrum in which to work.

Mitch concluded by asking, "How does this fit in with the, apparently thereby
less likely, theory of the etiology of cf being putative lower lying states
below the 
customary ground states?"

Mitch, are you implying that, even if one assumes that hydrinos exist, they
wouldn't produce net energy, because the radiation from the formation of one
hydrino would simply be absorbed by another, which would then be kicked back
up the ladder, or back to standard ground state hydrogen?

If that's your question, then it's a good one, to which I don't have a
definitive answer.  But from what Mills has published, he is claiming that
net energy is extracted.  Evidently he holds that much of the EUV is captured
by other elements of an electrolytic system, for example the water.  As far
as I know, water is a great absorber of EUV, which raises the water's
temperature, but water either radiates that heat at other wavelengths or
gives it up by convection.

Tom Stolper


  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 05:43:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA21262; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:31:25 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 05:31:25 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530500af640a7ae1b6 [199.237.131.225]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:35:17 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Why is this posted Horrace? 
Resent-Message-ID: <"zTMRT1.0.4C5.hicFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5432
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:56 PM 3/29/97, Ross Tessien wrote:
>Horace, and others, why are you posting this garbage?

First, if you read the specific post you will see it is primarily rationale
for and a call for a change in the operation of the list, a change away
from personal attacks.

Second, as noted in the post, it is a suggestion that a void is being
filled due to lack of high content posting. People here have data, results
and ideas for research, but seem to be witholding them.

Third, the thread is not mine, involves various contributors, and as far as
I know violates no rule of the list, other than maybe the main thrust of my
post, which is eliminating personal attack, which is already against the
rules.

Fourth, the majority of *my* posts of late have been on light electrons,
which may not be of interest to you or many others, but happens to be an
area I am actively pursuing experimentally.  For those bothered by that
line of discussion you will be happy to know that discussion is now and has
been almost entirely private for some days, and I expect it to continue to
be so unless some positive results are obtained.  However, Ross, it doesn't
seem like you are responding so inappropriately because of built up
frustrations over those posts.  Perhaps the subject post hit a nerve of
yours?

Fifth, there is a long historical precendent in vortex for the topic of
political and social ramifications of CF.  Maybe such discussions should be
put off the list and back to sci.physics.fusion or another list formed?


>Why am I reading it.

Sorry, I can't answer that question.


>Didn't the threads on the political BS have any affect?  Why can't we all
>just shut up.

If you are proposing a rule change I suggest you propose the rule change.
Meanwhile, it is not the purpose of a mail list to produce no postings. If
you have some experimental results to post or discuss please do so.


>I am making no comments about the below garbage.  I am
>pointing an accusing finger at Horace and asking him to stop posting this
>junk.  [snip]

Sorry. I'll wait for the rule change.

>Ross Tessien


For your convenience included below is the charter.  Just happened to note
I am overdue for a contribution.  At least the address for contributions is
handy below:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The Vortex-L list was originally created for discussions of professional
research into fluid vortex/cavitation devices which exhibit anomalous
energy effects (ie: the inventions of Schaffer, Huffman, Griggs, and
Potapov among others.) Currently it has evolved into a discussion on
"taboo" physics reports and research. Skeptics beware, the topics wander
from Cold Fusion, to reports of
excess energy in Free Energy devices, gravity generation and detection, reports
of theoretically impossible phenomena, and all sorts of supposedly crackpot
claims. Please see the rules below. This is a public, lightly-moderated
smartlist list. Interested parties are welcome to subscribe. There is no
charge, but donations towards expenses are strongly recommended.


Admin addr: vortex-L-request eskimo.com
Mail addr: vortex-L eskimo.com
Digest addr: vortex-digest-request eskimo.com
Moderator: billb eskimo.com (Bill Beaty)

William J. Beaty
7040 22nd Ave NW
Seattle, WA 98117
206-781-3320 USA


**************************************************************************
Vortex-L Rules:

1. If VORTEX-L proves very useful or interesting to you, please consider
   making a $10US/yr donation to help cover operating expenses.  If you
   cannot afford this, please feel free to participate anyway.  If you
   would like to give more, please do!  Direct your check to the
   moderator, address above.

2. This is not the sci.physics.fusion newsgroup; ridicule, debunkery, and
   namecalling between believers and skeptics are forbidden.  The tone
   should be one of legitimate disagreement and respectful debate.
   Vortex-L is a big nasty nest of 'true believers' (hopefully having
   some tendency to avoid self-deception,) and skeptics may as well leave
   in disgust.  But if your mind is open and you wish to test "crazy"
   claims rather than ridiculing them or explaining them away, hop on
   board!  (For a good analysis of the negative aspects of debunkery,
   see ZEN AND THE ART OF DEBUNKERY, http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/pathskep.html)

3. Small email files please.  The limit is set to 40K right now, those
   exceeding the limit will be forwarded to Bill Beaty.  Some
   members are on limited service, or have to pay for received email.
   Diagrams and graphics can be mailed to me or John Logajan and posted
   on our webpages for viewing.

4. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: when you reply to a message DON'T include the
   ENTIRE message in your reply.  Always edit it a bit and delete
   something.  The entire message should only be included if: (A) you
   are replying to a message that is many days old, or (B) you are doing
   a point-by-point reply to many parts of a message.  Many vortex users
   must pay by the kilobyte for receiving message traffic, and large
   amounts of redundant messages are irritating and expensive.  So,
   when including a quoted message in your reply, ALWAYS DELETE SOMETHING,
   the more the better.

5. Please do not include any other email list in the TO line or the CC
   line of your messages to vortex-L.  In the past this has caused
   storms of "thread leakage" between lists and redundant messages as
   replies from subscribers go to both lists.  It's OK to manually forward
   mail from other lists to vortex-L, as long as the TO line and CC line
   has only vortex-L and no other list.

6. "Junkmail" email advertizing will not be tolerated.  While not illegal
   yet, widecasting of junk-email ads to listservers is against the
   Unwritten Rules of the Internet.  Anyone who spams vortex-L with junkmail
   will be referred to the Internet Vigilante Justice team.  ;)
   Occasional on-topic advertizing by long-time vortex-L users is acceptable.

   - Bill B.


This page is on the Eskimo North service, in Seattle, WA. Try the Main
Eskimo home page, and
users' Individual home pages too.

Mail me at: billb eskimo.com If you are using Lynx, type "c" to send me a
comment.
billb eskimo.com


Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 09:30:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA17763; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:16:57 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:16:57 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970330051105.0068d55c world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 00:11:05 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: CF in EUV - dyes, malachite green
Resent-Message-ID: <"MBgIr.0.SL4.50gFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5433
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


  At 12:59 AM 3/30/97 GMT, Robin wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:53:33 +0300, Hamdi Ucar wrote:
>
>>I think a practical method to confirm EUV from CF cell:
>>
>>It may be possible to check effectively EUV radiation inside the cell by
>>adding some fluorescent materials into electrolytic (soluble or
>>particle). At least some UV photons can reach to  the fluorescent
>>material before absorbed by the water. The effectiveness of this method
>>can be tested by illuminating directly such a solution by an external UV
>>or EUV source.
>>
>>Hamdi Ucar
>>hamdix verisoft.com.tr
>I suspect that this may already have been done, though I have not seen any
>results reported on this list. Are experimenters keeping "mum" about this
>for some reason?
>
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa netspace.net.au>
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on 
>temperature.
>"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..."
>PS - no SPAM thanks!
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>

  Suspect it has not been done.

  Malachite green might be used as the dye.  Hematoporphyrin also
is a candidate.  One problem may be the hydrophobicity of the dyes.

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 10:41:22 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA23638; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:32:06 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:32:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Assumptions and Questions
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:31:15 +0000
Message-ID: <19970330183113.AAA8687 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"YRUBG1.0.Fn5.Z6hFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5434
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

Assuming that a light electron is involved with the Mills "Hydrino"
there should be light positrons and a regular electrons floating 
around in the environment and the Universe, and the Hydrinos.

Some basic electrostatic effects:

 Rubbing Materials          Negatively Charged        Positively Charged

1, rubber-wool                  rubber                     wool

2, glass-silk                   silk                       glass

3, amber-wool                   amber                      wool

4, lucite-polyethylene          polyethylene               lucite

5, sulphur-hands                hands                      sulphur

6, rubber-cat fur               rubber                     cat fur

The physics of adsorption by surfaces and ion exchange resins and
zeolites indicates that the positive and negative charges should be
adsorbed on surfaces and the electrostatic effects of rubbing or
friction could remove the negative charges and leave the positive 
charges adhering to the surfaces of the highly insulating materials.

I have noticed that since installing a water softener that there seems 
to be less static electricity around in the bathrooms and particularly 
in the clothes dryer where "static cling" was a nuisance before. 
Almost as thoughthe positive (cationic) charges were being involved 
in the ion exchange process of the water softener.

What's going on here?   :-)

Regards,      Frederick


                      

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 11:01:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16071; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:39:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:39:45 -0800
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:39:33 -0800
Message-Id: <199703301839.KAA16424 li.oro.net>
X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: tessien oro.net (Ross Tessien)
Subject: Re: Why is this posted Horrace? 
Resent-Message-ID: <"yBWLa1.0.1x3.kDhFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5435
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Horrace, and others;

My point was not to get down on Horrace.  It was to point out that we have
numerous threads that have been going on for months now on various topics
dealing with politics, attacks etc., and not dealing with science.  Horrace
was pointing out some of that in his post, but the point is, if someone
posts such an article, and someone responds, and on and on, we wind up with
an endless stream of bickering back and forth without scientific substance.  

To respond to such a message, is to encourage such messages.

I would not be writting this except that it was obvious that my previous
message came of as though I was getting down on Horrace and that was not the
point.  See how easy it is to misunderstand such commentary.

My point was, if there is no scientific content, or perhaps political
content where it pertains to this group and CF and OU vs the PTO or the
Govt., then why post it.  If we just refrain from posting or responding to
posts, then those threads will die out.  It is clear that there are
political issues that belong in this group.  But our bickering amongst
ourselves is not a part of this, IMO.

You see, I abhor even writing this letter, but felt that I needed to in
order to correct the perception of my last one.  I was a bit heated
regarding the issue of junk mail on this list, and didn't intend for that to
come out as though I was directing it specifically toward Horrace.  I know
that he posts lots of threads regarding bonified experiments and that is the
stuff this list should be all about.  So he, as much as anyone, is in a
position to just drop the garbage. 

All of the people who are responding to these attacks or issues have clear
opinions as to what should happen with CF etc.  But keep in mind the goals
of this group written in the charter Horrace appended to the previous
message.  The group is set up to discuss these devices and the technologies.
Some people are going to be willing to do so openly.  Others cannot due to
patent law and we need to respect their needs to keep their devices
confidential.  But regarding the science there is a lot of latitude afforded
which is not afforded in the domain of devices.

Anyway, my intention was to try to make a statement that would lead to our
reducing the number of posts along these unfruitful line of thinking.  I
think Scott responded last time (about three months ago) when I made a
similar plea with a blank email w/o a message.  

ie, he and others by his actions, got the point I was trying to make.  Here
again, I don't require any response to this.  I just wanted to clear up what
appeared to be an attack on Horrace, which it was not.  It was an attack on
the kind of messages that have been getting posted and Horraces message just
happened to be the one with lots of stuff, none of it scientific, that
particular day.

Later, Ross Tessien





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 12:02:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA23552 for billb@eskimo.com; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:02:05 -0800
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:02:05 -0800
X-Envelope-From: joeflynn delphi.delphi.com  Sun Mar 30 12:02:02 1997
Received: from bos1b.delphi.com (SYSTEM bos1b.delphi.com [199.93.4.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA23511 for <vortex-l@eskimo.com>; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:01:58 -0800
Received: from smtp.delphi.com ("port 4442" ns2.delphi.com)
 by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-7 #10880) id <01IH48X7R4O09GW3C6 delphi.com> for
 vortex-l eskimo.com; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 15:01:50 -0500 (EST)
Old-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 14:02:55 -0500
From: joeflynn delphi.delphi.com (Charles J. Flynn)
Subject: test
X-Sender: joeflynn pop.delphi.com
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Message-id: <01IH48XATS369GW3C6 delphi.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list
X-Envelope-To: vortex-l
Status: RO
X-Status: 

no content

**************E-MAIL CONTENTS: COPYRIGHTS APPLY FLYNN RESEARCH
INC********************

      Joe Flynn                                     E-mail joeflynn delphi.com
      Flynn Research Inc.                           Fax (816)537-5950
      P.O. Box 11657
      Kansas City, Mo. 64138
****************************************************************************
**********

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 13:07:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA26798; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:46:24 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:46:24 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: U.S. Energy Overview, 1960-95
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:45:44 +0000
Message-ID: <19970330204542.AAA21080 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"YSEbU.0.eY6.T4jFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5436
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In quadrillion BTU.  1 quadrillion Btu = 1 x 1^15 Btu.

          1960  1970  1975  1980  1985  1990  1992  1993  1994  1995

Consumed  43.8  66.4  70.6  76.0  74.0  84.2  85.3  87.1  89.0  90.6

Source

Geotherm        .01   .07   .11   .20   .34   .37   .38   .38   .36

Biofuels  0      0      0    0    .01   2.63  2.79  2.78  2.85   2.94

Solar     0      0      0    0     0    .07    .07   .07   .07    .07

Wind      0      0      0    0    .01    .02    .03  .03   .04    .04


Per:  1997 World Almanac And Book of Facts.


Hot Fusion;  0.00, Cold Fusion;  O.000   ZPE;  0.0000000  :-)

Regards,    Frederick 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 13:34:55 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA29197; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:13:10 -0800
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:13:10 -0800
X-Sender: ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Ed Wall <ewall-rsg postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Dogma, CF, Personal attacks, Next Vortex
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:11:34 +0000
Message-ID: <19970330211132.AAA28959 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"yrzPY2.0.787.bTjFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5437
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 08:35 PM 3/29/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>Ed Wall quoted the Correas:
>>>
>>>     "Those who have eyes to see are well aware that established scientific
>>>     research is committed to specific structural dogmas, and that this is
>>>     the very sine qua non of the survival of researchers in their
>>>     professional endeavor."
>>>
>>>     Are the Correas correct?
>>>
>
>
>>Jed Rothwell responded:
>>
>>>No, they are flat out wrong. They are silly. Established scientific research
>>>is not committed to any specific dogmas. It is committed to money
>[snip]
>
>
>>Ed:
>>
>>You are correct that money is power, liquid power that flows in and out of
>>our possesion.  Knowledge is also power.[snip] ("Power comes from the
>>mouth of >a gun." --Mao).  [snip] The threat of severe criticism is enough
>>to
>>assure conformity in the peer review system.  Researchers know this.
>{snip]
>> They know what happened to others [snip] ...
>>  (O'M. Bockris, Hagelstein, F&P, and who
>>knows how many others). [snip]
>
Horace Heffner:
>
>That the Correas are correct is clear if you consider their statement is a
>tautology. Science *is* a dogma. Science is a social phenomenon. This is
>not to say that is bad. On the contrary, science works. It has been
>fruitful in producing knowledge, even though the application of the
>knowledge has been on occasion doubtful in its results.

Ed:
Cogently put.  Dogma is ossified thought.  Bone gives form to the body and
structure against which to lean and pull.  It has a place and any reading of
dogma in a negative connotation was unintended.

Horace:
>
>I think there is a real problem affecting science that is far more sinister
>than its dogmatic nature. That problem is in the social fabric from which
>science is built.  The problem is an intolerant intellectual fascism
>embodied in the very idea of political correctness. 

Ed:
I couldn't help but remember that the comments made my many that the one
quality above all others you must have to work in the Clinton White House is
complete loyalty to Bill Clinton.  That is a quality of personality cults.
The leader who can tolerate nothing but YesMen is some kind of dictator.  I
don't deny he is an effective leader, but in a time when O.J. Simpson can be
found criminally innocent, high quality CF results spurned and experimenters
persecuted, perhaps The Clinton Chronicles video should be considered
seriously.  This should not be read as an endorsement of his opposition.

Horace:
>It is the notion that
>because "we" are right "we" therefore have the right and duty to shout down
>or otherwise crush the opposition by personal attack as opposed to
>intellectual attack and debate of  proposed ideas.  It is the notion that
>personal attack, condescention, personal threat, ostracism, and even worse
>forms of personal abuse are appropriate means to attack ideas, and even
>more ludicrously to attack scientific concepts, testable statements about
>the true nature of reality.  It is appalling that this intellectual fascism
>is an affliction centered in the very bastions of free speech, institutions
>founded on the free exchange of not only verifiable scientific ideas, but
>also the more subjective and often unprovable, untestable, social and
>humanitarian ideas.

Ed:
I could phrase it no better than this.  This forum is much more important
than many of its subscribers consider it to be who would debunk such
observation as 'political', and so unimportant.  The intellectual fascism is
naturally centered on the campuses who preserve academic freedom for fringe
groups enforcing ever more bizarre strains of political correctness.  Just
Friday, I saw a student stating (with considerable group support) on one of
those TV magazines that treating an individual accused of rape as already
convicted was appropriate, because they "knew" he raped her.  The "victim's"
admitted fact that she left her phone number after the event and was
witnessed by others as completely willing is irrelevant.  She says she was
raped, so she was raped.  Silly it is that the students can be so quick to
judge, tragedy is when the administration follows through with the folly
(which it apparently has).  Trivializing such a heineous crime as rape makes
the real thing invisible.  Similarly, the example of highly significant
academic bigotry against Bockris and associates can hardly be seen against
the background of continuous personal attacks routinely practiced on campus.

Horace:
>
>Perhaps the most notable and clear example of the advanced progression of
>intellectual fascism is the treatment of Bockris and the removal of the Low
>Temperature Transmutation Conference from Texas A&M campus.  There are
>certainly more vile and destructive examples, but none more exemplary of
>the severity of the problem because the action was put to a departmental
>vote and the decision was unanimous.

Ed:
If the faculty cannot enjoy academic freedom, how could anyone else possibly
enjoy it?  
>
Horace:
<snipped Heaven's Gate reference>
>What happens when the message is actually popular, seems sensible, and the
>true evil of fascism is an unknown, buried in past generations?

Add in the likelihood of economic instability and all reasoning is lost in
fear and Adolph Hitler can seem understandable.  We deserve the leaders we
allow to form.

Horace:
<snip>
>It was
>a lucky and maybe deliberate thing that Bohr's team could not solve the
>problems of his day in the confines of the Nazi regime. What of our fate
>today?

Ed:
Our scientists must be politically astute and understand the social power
they already possess by means of their abilities to reason.  It may seem
unfruitful to divert one's attention toward the social arena, but it is
everyone's responsibility.  Be careful how you expose your thoughts,
however, where integrity is a vulnerability.

Horace:
>
>The problems of vortex of late seem related more to personal attacks than
>to the content free quality of the posts. <snip>

>Horace Heffner

Ed:

This is a reflection of the greater situation, the weakening of basic human
respect.

The idea of a new list to allow divergences from the mind-boggling work for
which Vortex was initially intended appeals to me, probably because I am not
easily able to do such work (though not for lack of desire or basic
ability), but wish to share in this communication.  If I could not post to
Vortex, I would still want to subscribe and hopefully a sister list would be
regularly reviewed by full-members of Vortex who might find ideas there
important enough to re-post Vortex.  I agree that there are just too many
posts to Vortex and I would not want to chance missing the scientifically
critical ones in the flood.

Consider the possibility of allowing people who are not researchers to
contribute to Vortex only on a very occasional basis.  Their posts then
would likely reflect deeper thought and we would run less risk of missing
new ideas and committing intellectual incest.  Also, when someone
subscribes, send them the rules, etc.

Ed Wall
FAA Electronics Engineer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Mar 30 14:31:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA06954; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:22:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:22:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Light Positrons, Heavy Electrons and Magnetic Water Softeners.
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:20:26 +0000
Message-ID: <19970330222024.AAA19256 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"F9R1w2.0.Zi1.uUkFp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5438
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Vortexians:

The marketing "push" is on again for the Magnetic Water "Softeners".

If there are light positrons and heavy electrons left over from
the "Hydrino-Deutrino" formation that used a light electron, is it 
possible that these are in the water and get knocked loose when the 
water is pushed through the magnetic field and change the ionic 
properties of the water such that it actually works?     :-)

Regards,       Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 07:46:13 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA04497; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:31:18 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:31:18 -0800
From: "John Steck" <johnste ecg.csg.mot.com>
Message-Id: <9703310925.ZM2205 me525.ecg.csg.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:25:57 -0600
In-Reply-To: "Russ George" <rgeorge hooked.net>
        "New list forming for researchers in cold fusion" (Mar 27, 10:04pm)
References: <199703280407.UAA07350 mom.hooked.net>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New list forming.....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Resent-Message-ID: <"e27X8.0.B61.5ZzFp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5439
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Mar 27, 10:04pm, Russ George wrote:

> That was the reason Vortex was formed in the first place was to escape from
the
> tirades that became common place on science.physics.fusion. As Jed seems to
be
> on a tear again I am exploring setting up a new list to discuss these topics
> away from the maddening craziness sometimes and not infrequently seen on
> Vortex.  If hear from 20 people who are earnest workers in exploring the
field
> commonly called cold fusion I will set up a separate list which will be by
> invitation only. Invitations will be issued only if several member of the
list
> recommend an individual. The new list can be set up in 48 hours.

Vortex is interesting and effective BECAUSE of the diversity of backgrounds,
fields of expertise, and personal insights of it's members (ALL it's members).
 I see your point, but I do not think elitism is the solution you think it is.
 EVERYONE has something positive to contribute eventually.  Sorry to see you
go.

-- 
John E. Steck 
Motorola Inc.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 08:51:40 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA17642; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:25:18 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:25:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Hydrogenation of Alkali Carbonates?
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:48:07 +0000
Message-ID: <19970331014805.AAA29644 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"hWLlG2.0.ZJ4.bL-Fp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5440
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Robin or Remi:

I made a wager with a friend who runs about 2,500 acres of 
farmland that wind, solar, or CF could be used to "milk" the
atmosphere for CO2. Then, electrolysis of water to get hydrogen,
which could be "stored" for running I.C. engines by
reacting it with CO2 to make methanol, or with the nitrogen from 
the air to make ammonia (which can be catalytically decomposed to 
hydrogen and N2) or can be reacted with CO2 to make 
urea for an easily stored nitrogen fertilizer.

If the potassium carbonate obtained from the ash of biomass,
or if readily available calcium carbonate is reacted:

1, 4 H2 + K2CO3 = 2 KOH + CH3OH  (methanol) 

2, 4 H2 + CaCO3 = Ca(OH)2 + CH3OH  (methanol)

Then by devious means; 2 KOH aq + atmospheric CO2 = K2CO3 aq
or Ca(OH)2 + CO2 aq = CaCO3, or Ca(OH)2 + K2CO3 = 2 KOH + CaCO3.

The CO2 could be recovered from the exhaust of the I.C. engines, 
using the aqueous alkali.

Doable at low temperatures with some clever engineering?

Regards,      Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 09:12:31 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA16171; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:02:05 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:02:05 -0800
Message-Id: <199703311701.TAA36564 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:41:00 CET DST
Subject: Cold Fusion in India
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"Qi_Aw.0.by3.Cu-Fp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5441
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

The address I have for Upadhyay is

Professor C.S.Upadhyay
Department of Electrical Engineering
M.R.Engg. College
Jaipur 
302017 Rajastan
India

Some publications:
J.I.E. (Raj. State Cenre), 20, May 1979, 11-16
J.I.E. (Raj. State Centre), 27, April 1988, 47-51
Thesis, University of London, England, 1961
J.I.E.T.E, Vol 35, No 5, sept-Oct 1989

Some keywords:
Spin electrolysis of distilled water
Highly overunity reactor.
Macroscopic production of deuterium

Main reactions:

             +
H + H = D + e  + 0.9 MeV
             +
D + D = T + p  + 4 MeV

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 10:39:35 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA01260; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:22:06 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:22:06 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199703311821.UAA26930 sdn5.csc.dk>
From: i3683 csc.dk (I3683)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:14:00 CET DST
Subject: Cold Fusion in India
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Resent-Message-ID: <"Bam9U3.0.ZJ.B30Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5443
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

>exact published reference

I only have one article by Upadhyay here:

"Heavy atom water synthesis system - Cold Fusion A Possibilities. (Heavy 
water lens)", by C.S.Upadhyay.

This paper was presented at the 78th Indian Science Congres, Indore, on the 
date 6. Jan. 1991.

The paper has 12 pages. I might snail mail it to a few interested parties.

Regards, Anders

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 10:46:27 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA28469; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:21:04 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:21:04 -0800
Message-Id: <v01530508af65aeb79c88 [199.237.131.221]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:24:59 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner corecom.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Why is this posted Horrace?, second list
Resent-Message-ID: <"QIeD.0.vx6.E20Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5442
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 10:39 AM 3/30/97, Ross Tessien wrote:
>Horrace, and others;
>
>My point was not to get down on Horrace.
[snip]
>
>Later, Ross Tessien


OK. The truth is I've taken much more than my share of badwidth and have
tons of work backlogged.

Before getting busy doing what I should be doing, I do want to say that
Bill Beaty's lists are a fantastic public service and he is just an awsome
contributor to the advancement of amateur science, science education, and
the "weird underbelly of science", as he puts it.  This is the fun place to
be.  Personally, I could not got to a private or secret list where you have
to worry about what you say and what you can contribute publically.  I'm no
good at it.  I'll miss those who go.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 11:16:12 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA04658; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:04:54 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:04:54 -0800
X-Sender: wharton 128.183.251.148
Message-Id: <v03007800af65a79be8b3 [128.183.200.195]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:04:40 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Larry Wharton <wharton climate-f.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Gas loaded CF
Resent-Message-ID: <"-pwzd.0.i81.Lh0Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5445
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

 Now that Blacklight Power is going ahead with their gas loaded CF device I
think some general discussion is appropriate.  The devices usually consist
of a highly polished reacting surface, usually palladium or nickel.  This
surface is then placed in a hydrogen gas containing chamber, and there is a
sequence of heating of the surface under different pressure conditions
which always includes a vacuum.  The procedure of heating under a vacuum is
imagined by the gas phase CF advocates as a hydrogen loading process but in
fact it is a deloading and cleaning process.  This outgassing/cleaning
process, as I shall call it, is well known in the field of space flight
experiments.  When I first encountered the gas phase CF technique, by
reading some Italian patent on it - I don't remember which one, I
immediately realized that the device was simply being cleaned during the
outgassing/cleaning procedure and that the cleaned surface would have a
much reduced IR emissivity which could fully account for all the alleged
excess heat claims.
 I did not pay much attention to it at that time as I thought that
something that ridiculous would surely go away in a short time.  However I
guess that is not to be the case so I offer here a few comments.  The
condition of operating in a vacuum is preposterous right from the start
because the premiss of CF is that hydrogen atoms are packed into a metal
lattice and placing the reacting metal in a vacuum would cause it to
outgass and reduce the hydrogen loading factor.  So unless one believes
that low hydrogen loading factors (the opposite of conventional CF wisdom)
are required for CF to work, one can interpret the use of vacuum operating
conditions as direct evidence that the device is useless.
 The heat balance of these devices consists of doing static calorimetry
between the reacting surface and the chamber walls.  The calibration is
done before the outgassing/cleaning process when the reacting surface has a
much higher IR emissivity.  Then the surface is cleaned (the CF advocates
imagine that there is some sort of hydrogen loading going on) and the IR
emissivity goes down.  Then the reacting surface temperature will go up for
the same power input because the reduced IR emissions are carrying away
less heat. But the CF people assume the emissivity remained the same and
imagine there is excess heat.
 Now why should cleaning the surface reduce the emissivity?  The reacting
surface is required to be highly polished and that polished surface should
be a good reflector of IR.  If you coat the surface with contaminants the
reflectivity will in general go down.  Since the emissivity is 1 -
reflectivity then cleaning the surface will increase the emissivity.
 And what to do for a valid heat balance measurement?  Simply do the
calorimetry from the chamber surface to the outside world.  Static
calorimetry done from the reacting surface to the chamber wall are
worthless.  So lets see a gas loaded CF device with calorimetry from the
reaction chamber to the outside.

Lawrence E. Wharton
NASA/GSFC code 913
Greenbelt MD 20771
(301) 286-3486  Email - wharton climate.gsfc.nasa.gov


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 11:20:06 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA06582; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970331070111.006ab808 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 02:01:11 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Hydrogenation of Alkali Carbonates?
Resent-Message-ID: <"5T7_N3.0.lc1.Wj0Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5446
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 01:48 AM 3/31/97 +0000, Frederick J. Sparber wrote:
>Robin or Remi:
>
>I made a wager with a friend who runs about 2,500 acres of 
>farmland that wind, solar, or CF could be used to "milk" the
>atmosphere for CO2. 


    Safe bet it seems.

    It is well known that CO2 redistributes itself between
the atmosphere and fluids.  The white cliffs of Dover, and
countless atols come to mind.  Such redistribution play a 
major role by which Gaia has kept radical change, and
some of our shenanigans, in check (so far).  <g>



  Furthermore, however, the issue is not the equations or the free energy
of the reactions but the fact that in most
systems both the mass transfer and the RATE of the reaction
dominate the problem.  

  For example, human biosystems use zinc to speed up the reactions.
The zinc is in the carbonic anhydrase now a sine qua non for
our survival.  Do such catalysts play a role in your postulated systems
of redistribution?

  Hope that helps.

   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 11:27:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA05680; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:01:23 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:01:23 -0800 (PST)
Date: 31 Mar 97 13:58:56 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: R. George article in CFT / NEDO rumor
Message-ID: <970331185856_72240.1256_EHB76-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"MbOlh2.0.cO1.1e0Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5444
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Mitch Swartz pointed out to me that Russ George published an article the Cold
Fusion Times (ISSN#1072-2874) issue volume 4, number 4, p. 1, "Heat and
Nuclear Products by Cavitation Induced Fusion."

I went back and read it a couple of times. It is short, without much technical
detail. I think it is much better than nothing, but still not good enough. As
Mitch said, it includes a nifty calibration curve, but there is practically no
information about the curve or the calorimeter. I gather this is static
calorimetry. The base points are established with a joule heater. An example
of excess heat is marked. Input is just under 200 watts, output is a little
over 300, or "160% of input." There is no summary of the net energy from this
run or any other, except this statement: "Excess power generation was more or
less continuous over the operation of experiments lasting typically 24 hours."
Elsewhere it says ". . . excess power ranged from a few tens of watts to over
100 watts measured to an accuracy of ~5 - 10%."

Call it a matter of taste, but I don't care for this style of scientific
writing. Excess energy is the most important aspect of cold fusion. Excess
energy should be stated quantitatively, not "more or less" or "typically." It
should be graphed. I still do not find enough detail or hard numbers to give
me confidence that the E-Quest people know what they are doing in the
calorimetry department. Was this 24 hour run for "a few tens of watts"
measured with 10% accuracy? Or was it with the 100 watt excess? The former
would prove nothing, the latter would be momentous. E-Quest could publish a
convincing report on their calorimetry without revealing proprietary
information about the ultrasound process. As long as they refuse to do that,
they have no business complaining when people say they have not made a case
and we have no reason to believe them yet. Research cannot be both secret and
credible at the same time. It has been many years since this work began. There
has been ample time to publish a lavish description of the calorimetry.
Supposedly, E-Quest has a joint publication with EPRI waiting in the wings.
Russ claimed that Tom Passell was going to discuss that at ICCF6, but Tom
never mentioned it. I asked him about it. As I recall, he said something like
"we are working on that" but he did not indicate when, if ever, it would be
published. I have not seen a title, document number, release date or anything
else. If it ever is published, I'll buy it and publish a review in Infinite
Energy.


In the latest issue of Cold Fusion Times, I was dismayed to find one of my
Vortex messages beginning: "Rumor has it that the NEDO cold fusion program has
bit the dust." If Mitch has asked me, I would said for goodness sake don't
print that, it is just a rumor. Mere gossip at this stage, and besides, Kennel
denies it. Fortunately, Mitch also printed Kennel's denial. I would have said
let's wait until April 1st and we'll see if someone is playing an April
Fool's Joke on me. I would have said call the source of that rumor and call
the NHE for comment before you publish anything. Mitch keeps publishing this
stuff without asking me, in some cases in violation of copyright. That's
annoying and impolite.

Anyway, if the NHE and SRI still answer their phones in a week obviously
someone was pulling my leg, and spreading nefarious rumors about their
competition. The source of that rumor -- who shall remain nameless at his
request -- is not a reliable human being. Frankly, I would not have believed
it at all if Asami, Ikegami and other influential people connected with NEDO
had not been so negative at ICCF6. Their negativity is not a rumor. Not at
all. They expressed it to me directly and repeatedly.

If the NHE is business tomorrow, Mitch and everyone else can report that Jed
believed a rumor when he should have known better. It's no skin off my teeth.
I never said it was anything but a rumor. I still think the NHE *should be*
closed down, and the remaining funds should be distributed to Japanese labs
that achieved significant success. That is what I said in my Open Letter.
Unfortunately, if the program is terminated I expect it the funds will dry up
instead of being reapportioned.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 11:58:44 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA11755; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:45:02 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:45:02 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970331073824.006bc59c world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 02:38:24 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: R. George article in CFT / NEDO rumor
Resent-Message-ID: <"Nds232.0.bt2.wG1Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5447
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 01:58 PM 3/31/97 EST, Jed wrote:

> "Mitch keeps publishing this
>stuff without asking me, in some cases in violation of copyright. That's
>annoying and impolite."
>

  First, just to correct the issue, Jed.

1) Holy hypocrisy.  As you are aware, several publications including your own
take Internet material and publishes it.  Isn't it special that you focus on the
COLD FUSION TIMES, Jed, when excerpts of your material is quoted elsewhere.  

2) Unresolved. Neglecting your hypocrisy, Jed, just agree to pay our legal fees,
and we can test your notion at the US Supreme Court. 

3) Kettle, stove, problem:  Attention is directed to the fact that both
Infinite Energy and "COLD FUSION" the glossy magazine have violated 
US copyright law by copying without attribution the COLD FUSION TIMES' 
previously published material which was copyright protected.
Until you brought this up, Jed, it was decided to let this lie in the spirit
of education, and goodwill which this field desperately needs.
Education hopefully will lead to wisdom to separate the silly o/u devices
from the
real ones, Jed.  And goodwill is what you should better develop toward
researchers in the
field.



   =================================================

  
>"I never said it was anything but a rumor. I still think the NHE *should be*
>closed down, and the remaining funds should be distributed to Japanese labs
>that achieved significant success. That is what I said in my Open Letter."

  4) Second, Jed has made himself an issue in this field both by his
"Open Letter", and also by his attacking of researchers in it who 
have not elected to advertise or publish their research through
his periodical, or elect to move more slowly in the field than he wants.


   Other than correcting him on occasion for accuracy here, that
has been ignored as well.  However, the COLD FUSION TIMES necessarily covers
the field, and therefore elected to cover his previous challenge to NEDO
(issue #5-1).  As a result,  Jed's criticism of NEDO, publically
and worldwide over the Internet and in his periodical, and a response from
anyone in it is, therefore, part of the story.

    Best wishes.

    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 14:43:20 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA07533; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:31:22 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:31:22 -0800
Date: 31 Mar 97 17:28:56 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Politics are like babies
Message-ID: <970331222856_72240.1256_EHB60-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"O0HCy.0.dr1.ui3Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5449
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

There have been a number of complaints here about messages relating to
politics, dogma, personal attacks and the like. In a fit of pique Ross Tessien
wrote:

     Horace, and others, why are you posting this garbage?  Why am I reading
     it. Didn't the threads on the political BS have any affect?  Why can't
     we all just shut up.

I think many scientists and engineers dislike politics. They like orderly,
unemotional problems that have definite solutions. That is why many people
become engineers in the first place. Other people, like me, enjoy politics. We
like reading dogma, arguments and what Ross aptly calls "garbage." It is
garbage, but it's interesting and we like to wallow in it. As I see it,
politics are like babies: slimly, smelly, dirty, childish, but an essential
part of life. We are primates. We spend most of our time competing with one
another and battling over territory. Mainly, we think about sex and power.
That's human nature. People who call it garbage, and people who try to banish
it from their thoughts remind me of the Victorians who pretended that sex
doesn't exist, or the baby boomers who are afraid to think about old age and
death. All human institutions, including science, engineering, medicine, and
business, are profoundly influenced by politics. Policy decisions are made,
money is allocated, and peer review is done partly on the basis of rational
arguments, and partly on the basis of chest thumping and grass throwing
emotional tantrums no different from those of our simian cousins. We hoot and
throw grass metaphorically in the boardrooms and the editorial pages of the
New York Times. Yes, it is messy and irrational, but it's kinda cute too. It's
endearing.

I hope it will not bother Ross if we continue to post messages about such
topics from time to time. I, for one, promise to make the titles clear so that
he can skip these messages. I do not think the volume of political messages
here is so high it is an imposition on him. I myself can conveniently skip
messages that do not interest me.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 15:49:43 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA08475; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:34:09 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:34:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Hydrogenation of Alkali Carbonates?
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:33:20 +0000
Message-ID: <19970331233317.AAA7826 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"Dzq812.0.L42.md4Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5450
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 07:01 AM 3/31/97 +0000, Mitchell wrote:
>
>
>    Safe bet it seems.
>
>    It is well known that CO2 redistributes itself between
>the atmosphere and fluids.  The white cliffs of Dover, and
>countless atols come to mind.  Such redistribution play a 
>major role by which Gaia has kept radical change, and
>some of our shenanigans, in check (so far).  <g>
>
>
>
>  Furthermore, however, the issue is not the equations or the free energy
>of the reactions but the fact that in most
>systems both the mass transfer and the RATE of the reaction
>dominate the problem.  
>
>  For example, human biosystems use zinc to speed up the reactions.
>The zinc is in the carbonic anhydrase now a sine qua non for
>our survival.  Do such catalysts play a role in your postulated systems
>of redistribution?
>
>  Hope that helps.
>
>   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)
>
>
The evaporative coolers that we use in the Southwest and the cooling
towers used by electrical power plants and for air conditioning in
large buildings move megatons of air daily over water and probably
based on the CO2 buildup in the water in these devices, extract enormous
quantities of CO2 from the atmosphere.

Aside from being distracted by a pair of exuberant 3 and 5 year-old
grandsons and putting 4 H2 when I meant to put 3 H2 in the equations,
I think a catalyst like the highly proprietary copper based catalysts
used in large scale methanol production from CO2 and H2 is what one 
would want to use.

Palladium is too expensive and nickel wants to take the reaction to
methane and water. A zinc-chromite catalyst should work, but requires
higher pressures than the copper based catalyst.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 15:58:23 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA09980; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:45:32 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:45:32 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970331113922.00691c68 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 06:39:22 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Vortex comment not copyright
Resent-Message-ID: <"FcHik3.0.sR2.Qo4Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5453
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


  At 04:48 PM 3/31/97 EST, Jed wrote:
>To: Vortex; >INTERNET:mica world.std.com
>
>I wrote that Mitch keeps publishing this stuff without asking me, in some
>cases in violation of copyright. Mitch writes:
>
>     1) Holy hypocrisy.  As you are aware, several publications including
>     your own take Internet material and publishes it.  Isn't it special that
>     you focus on the COLD FUSION TIMES, Jed, when excerpts of your material
>     is quoted elsewhere.
>
>I wasn't talking about the Vortex comments or the Open Letter. I meant
>previous columns in CFT that were verbatim copies of articles that I
>circulated with a big fat COPYRIGHT notice on them.


  Dream on, Jed.  Infinite Energy is routinely 6 months behind the times.
Isn't that right?  For example, you just published the \
November-December 1996 issue which arrived in March 1997, consistent with some 
of the articles within e.g. the Saint movie's pictures which were from March
'97.

  Apparently you believe that your BACKDATING of Infinite Energy issues gives 
you a copyright bypassing the Internet publication which
actually preceeded it.  Cute, Jed. 

 FACT:  Not once has the Cold Fusion Times broken your copyright, and
furthermore
Cold Fusion Times received permission when it did publish anything beyond an
excerpt
from Gene Mallove and, as you know, several times from yourself.

   Furthermore, both Infinite Energy and "COLD FUSION" the glossy 
magazine have violated US copyright law by copying without attribution 
the COLD FUSION TIMES'previously published material which was copyright
protected.  As an example, a significant fraction of everything in several
of your early issues 
was a simple repeat of the COLD FUSION TIMES already in readers hands a year
or more 
before. The Cold Fusion Times' readers joked about that for years.

     Is that why you backdate your issues now, Jed?   <g>



  ======================================================

   >Jed's criticism of NEDO should not be part of any story anywhere. Jed's
   >opinions are of no interest to the readers of CFT, IE, or this forum. 
 
    Then why do you post your opinions so much?  There is no shortage of
what you
think, or what you claim you think, is hurting cold fusion in the archives
of both
s.p.f. and vortex. I am not stating that I disagree with some of what you
say, or
that you should stop, only that it appears hypocritical.

  Best wishes.

   Mitchell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 16:02:24 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA09915; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:44:50 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:44:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970331113838.006a5f14 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 06:38:38 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: BlackLight balloons, pot calling kettle
Resent-Message-ID: <"PANQa.0.rQ2.mn4Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5451
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 12:26 PM 3/27/97 EST, Jed wrote:
>
>     Furthermore, there is no urine-burning o/u device, or rotating coupled
>     dynamo o/u device, is there. IMHO, this and some of the other stuff you
>     present in IE does more to hurt the real field here, than any mistake
>     done by any cf researcher.
>
>I am not the editor of IE. I do not choose the articles, except for the ones I
>write or edit. I do not know what urine-burning device you refer to, I must
>have skipped that article. 


  Jed, actually, there were a couple of refs, including the easiest to find 
in IE vol 2 number 10 page 3.  According to Infinite Energy, it also burns 
garbage and pickle juice, Jed. 

  Where is the data, Jed? 

  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 16:35:42 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA18052; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:45:08 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:45:08 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970331113907.00692644 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 06:39:07 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: R. George article in CFT 
Resent-Message-ID: <"9gtwU1.0.wP4.3o4Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5452
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 01:58 PM 3/31/97 EST, Jed wrote:

  >Mitch Swartz pointed out to me that Russ George published an article the Cold
  >Fusion Times (ISSN#1072-2874) issue volume 4, number 4, p. 1, "Heat and
  >Nuclear Products by Cavitation Induced Fusion."
  >
  >I went back and read it a couple of times. It is short, without much
technical
  >detail. I think it is much better than nothing, but still not good enough. As
  >Mitch said, it includes a nifty calibration curve, but there is
practically no
  >information about the curve or the calorimeter. I gather this is static
  >calorimetry. The base points are established with a joule heater. An example
  >of excess heat is marked. Input is just under 200 watts, output is a little
  >over 300, or "160% of input."


  Where do you come off misquoting and misstateing what he wrote, Jed?

  Russ George took the time to write it down clearly, but you give it the
short-shift
in a fashion now routinely expected from some of the more ignorant malicious
lamers on s.p.f.

     "The experiments show reproducible large excess power 
   (tens to hundreds of thermal watts) is generated in the device based
    on calorimetric measurement of total energy input and heat output. 
    The figure shows a summary plot of data from the experiments conducted
at SRI 
    during the course of this project. The diagonal line is drawn through points
    determined via the use of a Joule heater and show measurement of heat in
equal 
    to heat out. Many of the experimental points which include some
experiments with
    inactive ingredients fall on or near the Joule heater calibration
confirming the
   case for no excess heat. However many points fall far to the left of the
calibration
   line and demonstrate excess energy. The one point which is attached to a
vertical line
   is used to illustrate the substantial excess power which in this case is
about 160% of 
   the input of just under 200 watts."
      [Russ George "Heat and Nuclear Products by Cavitation Induced Fusion"
        Cold Fusion Times issue volume 4, number 4, p. 1]

 ================================================================

      > There is no summary of the net energy from this
      >run or any other, except this statement: "Excess power generation was
more or
      >less continuous over the operation of experiments lasting typically
24 hours."
      >Elsewhere it says ". . . excess power ranged from a few tens of watts
to over
      >100 watts measured to an accuracy of ~5 - 10%."
       >Call it a matter of taste, but I don't care for this style of scientific
      >writing. Excess energy is the most important aspect of cold fusion.
Excess
      >energy should be stated quantitatively, not "more or less" or
"typically."


  Jed, you may not like the discussion of accuracy and precision
measurements, but
they are routine for scientists.   Also recommend noise measurements, and
long baselines.
A few examples of these conditions requisite for believable measurements in
this field
are available at the JET Energy Technology home page located at
  http://world.std.com/~mica/jet.html

    Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 16:55:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA25974; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:34:56 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:34:56 -0800
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BlackLight balloons, pot calling kettle
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 00:29:00 +0000
Message-ID: <19970401002858.AAA11853 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"AKANm.0.iL6.lW5Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5454
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

At 11:38 AM 3/31/97 +0000, Mitchell wrote:
>At 12:26 PM 3/27/97 EST, Jed wrote:
>>
>>     Furthermore, there is no urine-burning o/u device, or rotating coupled
>>     dynamo o/u device, is there. IMHO, this and some of the other stuff you
>>     present in IE does more to hurt the real field here, than any mistake
>>     done by any cf researcher.
>>
>>I am not the editor of IE. I do not choose the articles, except for the ones I
>>write or edit. I do not know what urine-burning device you refer to, I must
>>have skipped that article. 
>
>
>  Jed, actually, there were a couple of refs, including the easiest to find 
>in IE vol 2 number 10 page 3.  According to Infinite Energy, it also burns 
>garbage and pickle juice, Jed. 
>
>  Where is the data, Jed? 
>
>  Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)
>
>
>
Pickle juice, urine....  I think you both need a date with the 
pickle slicer.    

(I hear she's quite fun).    :-)

Come on you guys. You're cutting into my time with Pinky and The Brain.


FJS



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 17:20:08 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA19115; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:08:43 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:08:43 -0800 (PST)
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:07:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970331200746_1386449347 emout19.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Gas loaded CF
Resent-Message-ID: <"4bLbc1.0.bg4.P06Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5455
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a message dated 97-03-31 14:32:41 EST, Larry Warton wrote:

<<  Now that Blacklight Power is going ahead with their gas loaded CF device
I
 think some general discussion is appropriate.  The devices usually consist
 of a highly polished reacting surface, usually palladium or nickel. >>

He then proceeds to a "general discussion" which has nothing to do with the
BLP process, while implying that it is inclusive of it. He seems to confuse
the Piantelli cell which operates in a gas phase with the BLP cell, and then
proceeds to develop an explanation for excess heat in how he thinks the
Piantelli cell operates. 

As I've pointed out before, I'm not a front man for BLP. But I think people
who would purport to analyze it should read and understand the material
available in the Web site, which is quite detailed. 

The BLP gas phase cell operates at low pressure with hydrogen atoms and a
catalyst vapor, which I believe is potassium iodide. Ionized potassium has
the energy well necessary to trigger a stage of the hydrogen collapse.
Potassium carbonate is the electrolyte (and possibly the catalyst) in the
aqueous Mills cells. 

And, as Mills insists, the BLP process energy yield does not come from any
nuclear process, but a new form of chemistry. It is conceivable that the
shrunken hydrogen atoms may also play a part in nuclear transformations in
the solid state, but it seems very unlikely that this would occur in the gas
phase. 

I will be happy to be corrected by anyone who has actually studied the Mills
material available. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 18:40:28 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA12457; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:22:45 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:22:45 -0800
From: RMCarrell aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:22:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970331212112_1054312699 emout18.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Gas loaded CF
Resent-Message-ID: <"YnqnW3.0.Z23.p57Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5456
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

In a message dated 97-03-31 14:32:41 EST, Larry Warton wrote:

<<  Now that Blacklight Power is going ahead with their gas loaded CF device
I
 think some general discussion is appropriate.  The devices usually consist
 of a highly polished reacting surface, usually palladium or nickel. >>

He then proceeds to a "general discussion" which has nothing to do with the
BLP process, while implying that it is inclusive of it. He seems to confuse
the Piantelli cell which operates in a gas phase with the BLP cell, and then
proceeds to develop an explanation for excess heat in how he thinks the
Piantelli cell operates. 

As I've pointed out before, I'm not a front man for BLP. But I think people
who would purport to analyze it should read and understand the material
available in the Web site, which is quite detailed. 

The BLP gas phase cell operates at low pressure with hydrogen atoms and a
catalyst vapor, which I believe is potassium iodide. Ionized potassium has
the energy well necessary to trigger a stage of the hydrogen collapse.
Potassium carbonate is the electrolyte (and possibly the catalyst) in the
aqueous Mills cells. 

And, as Mills insists, the BLP process energy yield does not come from any
nuclear process, but a new form of chemistry. It is conceivable that the
shrunken hydrogen atoms may also play a part in nuclear transformations in
the solid state, but it seems very unlikely that this would occur in the gas
phase. 

I will be happy to be corrected by anyone who has actually studied the Mills
material available in the Web site or his book. 

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 19:02:34 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA17976; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:53:48 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:53:48 -0800
Date: 31 Mar 97 21:51:04 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Subject: Copyright violations
Message-ID: <970401025103_72240.1256_EHB145-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"1yjFa1.0.oO4.xY7Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5457
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

To: Vortex

Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com> writes:

     Furthermore, both Infinite Energy and "COLD FUSION" the glossy magazine
     have violated US copyright law by copying without attribution the COLD
     FUSION TIMES' previously published material which was copyright
     protected.

I will ask one more time, Mitch. Which material? Please tell us specifically
which article (or partial article) was copied from the CFT and published in
I.E.? You should not should post such accusations without specifics. That's
against the rules here.


     As an example, a significant fraction of everything in several of your
     early issues was a simple repeat of the COLD FUSION TIMES already in
     readers hands a year or more before. The Cold Fusion Times' readers
     joked about that for years.

Well, I cannot understand why you printed *my* report of the ILENR conference
and *my* report of ICCF6. If I am so far behind, why bother? In any case, do
you mean we actually copied verbatim text from CFT? I don't think so. It is
quite possible that we reported the same things at a later date, but that does
not constitute a copyright violation, where you copy a substantial percent of
the original text word for word, without attribution. If a report in your own
words at a later date was a copyright violation, the wire services would sue
every newspaper in the U.S. every time a story like the O.J. Simpson murder
breaks, because they all report the same thing, and the wire services are
always first.

When we report the same information CFT does, but at a later date, in every
case we get the story from the same sources you do. We take longer to prepare
articles, probably because we take more time to verify sources and track down
rumors, and we give the authors a chance to revise. We never use CFT as a
primary source. I doubt your readers joke about the pace of our reporting,
because any pace will do. Cold fusion is an academic subject in which new
developments take years to unfold, and they are common knowledge along the way
to anyone who attends a few conferences a year. I myself see no reason to rush
into print. I have been thinking about how to frame some stories for years,
especially Miles. It took me six months of back and forth letters with Passell
before I felt I understood the EPRI book well enough to review it. Can't help
it. I think slo-o-o-wly.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 19:52:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA25393; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:42:31 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:42:31 -0800
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970331153624.0069aaf8 world.std.com>
X-Sender: mica world.std.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:36:24 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Copyright violations
Resent-Message-ID: <"7KEBj3.0.dC6.cG8Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5458
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


   At 09:51 PM 3/31/97 EST, Jed wrote:

    >Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com> writes:
>     Furthermore, both Infinite Energy and "COLD FUSION" the glossy magazine
>     have violated US copyright law by copying without attribution the COLD
>     FUSION TIMES' previously published material which was copyright
>     protected.
>
>I will ask one more time, Mitch. Which material? Please tell us specifically
>which article (or partial article) was copied from the CFT and published in
>I.E.? You should not should post such accusations without specifics. That's
>against the rules here.


  Answered you with specificity already, Jed, but will not do YOUR homework.

  FYI, the answer was in the sentences you conveniently left out of your
repost, Jed.

   = As an example, a significant fraction of everything in several
   =  of your early issues 
   = was a simple repeat of the COLD FUSION TIMES already in readers
   = hands a year or more before. 


  Therefore, just check your table of contents. You know we have sent 
you the back issues of the Cold Fusion Times.  

   QED

  ==================================================

>     As an example, a significant fraction of everything in several of your
>     early issues was a simple repeat of the COLD FUSION TIMES already in
>     readers hands a year or more before. The Cold Fusion Times' readers
>     joked about that for years.
>
>Well, I cannot understand why you printed *my* report of the ILENR conference
>and *my* report of ICCF6. If I am so far behind, why bother?

  Did not say you, but the "early issues".  Right?


  ==================================================

> We never use CFT as a primary source. 

  Which is one of the reasons why you confuse good work with less good work,
and present urine engines and other bogus devices, without adequate info 
demonstrating the purported o/u, thereby contributing to 
sour the atmosphere toward the more the serious work.


  ==================================================

>I doubt your readers joke about the pace of our reporting,
>because any pace will do.

  The issue was NOT the "pace", but the fact that you repeated what
was already published.  IMHO, it is not a mark of excellence for a periodical
to simply repeat material.  

  Hope that helps.

   Mitchell Swartz (mica world.std.com)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 20:07:18 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA08083; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:52:08 -0800 (PST)
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:52:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: frederick.sparber postoffice.worldnet.att.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber worldnet.att.net> (by way of "Frederick J. Sparber" <frederick.sparber@worldnet.att.net>)
Subject: BLP, Potassium Iodide Catalyst
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 03:51:04 +0000
Message-ID: <19970401035102.AAA22480 LOCALNAME>
Resent-Message-ID: <"3BTCe.0.B-1.cP8Gp" mx2>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5459
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

Horace and Frank:

Here are the vapor pressure data for Potassium Iodide available
in "iodized salt" or probably over-the-counter at your pharmacy.

I include the Lithium Iodide because I think that the "Hydrino"
can fission the Lithium into 2 He4 + 17.6 Mev.

                   Vapor Pressure, Torr vs Temp Deg C

     1.0       10     40      100      400     760     M.P.

KI   745      887     995     1080     1238    1324    723

LiI  723      841     927     993      1110    1171    446


Regards,         Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 20:16:59 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA28895; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:06:49 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:06:49 -0800
From: Puthoff aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:06:10 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970331230402_416674195 emout17.mail.aol.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Biefield-Brown Effect
Resent-Message-ID: <"cKjA22.0.P37.Nd8Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5460
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


In a message dated 3/29/97 11:17:26 PM, Rick on vortex-l eskimo.com wrote:

<<how to check for this effect without getting fooled by
the usual electrostatic causes. I'd like to know how to do that. >>

The best candidate in my opinion was Brown's so-called Paris experiment.
 Each charged electrode pair at the end of a rotating arm was inside its own
totally-enclosing sphere.  That way no ion-wind effect can reach the outside.
 If the spheres are shielded in addition (my own suggestion - not included in
the original experiment) that should add an additional countermeasure against
artifacts.

Hal Puthoff  


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 14:20:10 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA02276; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 13:53:18 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 13:53:18 -0800
Date: 31 Mar 97 16:48:57 EST
From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256 compuserve.com>
To: BlindCopyReceiver:;
Subject: Vortex comment not copyright
Message-ID: <970331214856_72240.1256_EHB128-1 CompuServe.COM>
Resent-Message-ID: <"0Xm_l2.0.PZ.B93Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5448
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: Vortex; >INTERNET:mica world.std.com

I wrote that Mitch keeps publishing this stuff without asking me, in some
cases in violation of copyright. Mitch writes:

     1) Holy hypocrisy.  As you are aware, several publications including
     your own take Internet material and publishes it.  Isn't it special that
     you focus on the COLD FUSION TIMES, Jed, when excerpts of your material
     is quoted elsewhere.

I wasn't talking about the Vortex comments or the Open Letter. I meant
previous columns in CFT that were verbatim copies of articles that I
circulated with a big fat COPYRIGHT notice on them.


     2) Unresolved. Neglecting your hypocrisy, Jed, just agree to pay our
     legal fees, and we can test your notion at the US Supreme Court.

Nobody is going to sue anyone. Nobody, least of all me, is threatening suit.
This is a trivial technical violation of the copyright laws. The circulation
of CFT is so small I would chalk up the violations as free advertising. It is
a case of bad manners -- that's all. Reprinting the "rumor" message was no
copyright violation, it was another minor case of bad manners. It was also bad
journalism. I would never print a thing like that without first calling the
principals (the NHE and SRI), and without tracking down the rumor to its
source. It is one thing to gossip on an informal Internet group. It is quite
another thing to publish in a proper journal circulated to paying readers. It
is like the difference between a person who gabs at the water cooler about
speculation that the government accidentally shot down that airplane off
Long Island, and a person who publishes that speculation in the newspaper. The
latter calls for high standards and careful research.

Incidently, I don't think there is the slightest chance the government blew up
that plane. They may be stupid enough to do it, but they are definitely too
stupid to cover it up.


     3) Kettle, stove, problem:  Attention is directed to the fact that both
     Infinite Energy and "COLD FUSION" the glossy magazine have violated US
     copyright law by copying without attribution the COLD FUSION TIMES'
     previously published material which was copyright protected.

What did they reprint? Please be specific.



     4) Second, Jed has made himself an issue in this field both by his "Open
     Letter", and also by his attacking of researchers in it who have not
     elected to advertise or publish their research through his
     periodical . . .

The implication here is that I attack them because they choose not to
advertise or publish. This is too preposterous for words. I would have to
attack hundreds of CF scientists! And how do you explain my often repeated
harsh critiques of CETI, one of our biggest advertisers?


     . . . Jed's criticism of NEDO, publically and worldwide over the
     Internet and in his periodical, and a response from anyone in it is,
     therefore, part of the story.

Jed's criticism of NEDO should not be part of any story anywhere. Jed's
opinions are of no interest to the readers of CFT, IE, or this forum. If the
Open Letter was a reflection of those opinions, it would not be worth reading.
The Open Letter was important because it quoted and referenced leading cold
fusion scientists like Ikegami, Fleischmann and Bockris. That is why it is
important, and that is why it is a travesty that the NHE has ignored it, and
Kennel has attacked me instead of responding to the scientific content of the
Letter. I should add that some of these leading people are more harshly
critical of the NHE than I am.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 20:32:21 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA30630; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:23:17 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:23:17 -0800
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:23:09 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: magnetised water (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970331202245.14555A-100000 eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Message-ID: <"3gbT31.0.WU7.qs8Gp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5461
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 

from the physics teaching list..

.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,.............................
William Beaty  voice:206-781-3320   bbs:206-789-0775    cserv:71241,3623
EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer        http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/
Seattle, WA 98117  billb eskimo.com           SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:50:18 +0200
From: Mark Sylvester <msylvest spin.it>
Reply-To: phys-l atlantis.cc.uwf.edu
To: phys-l atlantis.cc.uwf.edu
Subject: magnetised water

Some time back (September 96) I wrote to this list asking if anyone had come
across the claim which a student had found in a Russian text to the effect
that some physical properties of water are changed by passing the water
through a magnetic field.

I thought I'd give the results of the measurements he subsequently made (for
his IB Extended Essay):

His experiment was properly controlled as far as I could tell. Distilled
water passed slowly (drop by drop) through a rubber tube connected to a
burette and was collected in a beaker. First a control sample was collected
with no B present, then the tube was placed between the poles of a strong
permanent magnet and the "magnetised" sample collected. The two B values
used were measured as 0.11T and 0.16T (using a Hall probe). 15 measurements
were made for each field strength.

Conductivity of the samples was measured with an instrument borrowed from
the chemistry lab. This showed a clearly distinguishable decrease of 30% on
"magnetisation". 

Surface tension was measured with the traditional Jaeger's method, and this
took up most of the student's time: here there was an increase of 2% on
magnetisation. 

Perhaps others would like to try this.

Mark.

*************************************************************
Mark Sylvester
United World College of the Adriatic, Duino, Trieste, Italy.
msylvest spin.it
tel: +39 40 3739 255
*************************************************************

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Mar 31 23:20:57 1997
Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA16839; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:04:27 -0800
Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:04:27 -0800
From: "Jay Olson" <olso3562 novell.uidaho.edu>
Organization: University of Idaho
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:03:59 PST8PDT
Subject: Re: BLACKLIGHT POWER(origins)
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a)
Message-ID: <4885B07486 hickory.csrv.uidaho.edu>
Resent-Message-ID: <"XV09m1.0.z64.wDBGp" mx1>
Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List: <vortex-l eskimo.com> archive/latest/5462
X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com
Status: O
X-Status: 


> 1. Use normal water, H2O not D2O, unless you are looking for tritum or
> neutrons. Essentially all of the heat is **NOT** caused by fusion but by some
> other physical process--namely shrinkage of hydrogen atoms from the N=1 state
> to the N=1/2 state. (I know this is hard to believe, particularly for someone
> like me who has taught quantum chemistry for 25 years, but life **is**
> stranger than fiction.)
> 
> Regards,
> Vince
> Las Vegas Nevada

     A very interesting post.  Got a question though.  When you 
remove current from the system, does it exhibit cooling due to 
hydrogen atoms expanding back to the N=1 state?  Thanks,

JAY OLSON