From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 01:14:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA07770; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:13:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:13:14 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Asteroids Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 04:20:03 -0400 Message-ID: <19990901082003000.AAA279 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"x78393.0.Kv1.Q0Ept" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29990 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >***{Whatever happened was apparently on John Logajan's end of the pipe. >Everything else is coming through fine, including your stuff. As a matter >of curiosity, were you able to read his messages? --MJ}*** Yeah, but I don't use the Netscape e-mail program for this group. After I shot off that last post, I got another blank e-mail on Netscape for a total of three blanks in a row. They were all more or less just junkmail, so I'm not too bothered, yet. This particular weirdness started about 6:00am yesterday morning. Everything prior to that was fine. The lost dll's that wouldn't let me use my dialer had me going for a while. I was poking around the Microsoft website, and I heard my backup harddrive fire up, and thought "Oh no, here we go." Fortunately, I found another copy of the file in an old zip archive. Who knows... maybe all the bad stuff will go away 8^) If you are reading this Ecco, tell the Bunnymen I'm thoroughly undermused! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 05:22:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA04000; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:21:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:21:03 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Jed Rothwell on Skeptics: some comments Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 22:20:26 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000d01bef2e0$d0679d00$514eccd1 default> <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0@spectre.mitre.org> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA03789 Resent-Message-ID: <"81w1r.0.Q-.keHpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29991 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:17:20 -0400, Robert I. Eachus wrote: [snip] >the punctuation is pretty violent. A large meteor, comet, or asteriod strike produces lots of gamma radiation. This is news to me. Could you explain the mechanism perhaps? A solid object travelling at 70000 mph has a kinetic energy of about 5 eV per nucleon. Even allowing for about 200 nucleons in a fairly heavy nucleus, that's still only about 1000 eV per nucleus. So I could see how you might get some mild x-rays, but gamma rays would have to come from some form of nuclear reaction wouldn't they? >If gamma radiation kills 99.99% of the population in a large area, those remaining will have been subjected to a large amount of genetic modification by the gamma radiation. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 05:38:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07603; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:35:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:35:36 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production (0.2 ev) from Fluorescent Bulbs? Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 22:35:04 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <00da01bef32f$b8e3c560$578e1d26 fjsparber> <37ccfaf5.340787444@mail-hub> <001a01bef33d$1ed3bc60$24441d26@fjsparber> <37d244b5.359672636@mail-hub> <008401bef376$3398e060$24441d26@fjsparber> In-Reply-To: <008401bef376$3398e060$24441d26 fjsparber> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA07568 Resent-Message-ID: <"OF7F-1.0.bs1.OsHpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29992 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:00:47 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >> Try hanging a cloth, that develops static in a dryer, in front of a bar >> radiator, and see if develops a charge without any tumbling action. >> >Interesting idea, but where is the 600 to 1000 cfm of H2O-laden air, >in such an experiment? Static doesn't develop in a dryer until the clothes are dry. Just open one half way through sometime, and you will see for yourself. (The moisture provides a discharge path for the static charge). So the H2O laden air is a red herring. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 05:38:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA07730; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:35:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:35:56 -0700 Message-ID: <005001bef476$8f490c40$0101a8c0 john> From: "John Logajan" To: References: Subject: Re: Asteroids (reply to Mitchell's blank message complaint) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:34:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"N9kZ1.0.iu1.hsHpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29993 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Jones wrote: > ***{Whatever happened was apparently on John Logajan's end of the pipe. > Everything else is coming through fine, including your stuff. As a matter > of curiosity, were you able to read his messages? --MJ}*** Interestingly, all the content returned normally to me and is logged and available for viewing in the vortex-l archive (vortexb-l doesn't keep an archive.) http://www.escribe.com/science/vortex/ I used MS Outlook Express to generate the postings in question, including this one. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan yahoo.com -- 651-633-8918 - - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 06:54:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA24642; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:53:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:53:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990901095318.00798460 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:53:18 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Blank Logajan posts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"h--s92.0.s06.d_Ipt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29994 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think the posts from John Logajan which Mitchell cannot see are the ones in HTML format. Some are coming accross in HTML and some in plaintext, and the Mitchell is calling out the former, I think. I can read them all, but I prefer plaintext. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 07:11:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30721; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:10:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:10:28 -0700 Message-ID: <19990901140956.83416.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [216.3.0.31] From: "Peter Aldo" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy-sucking antennas Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 07:09:55 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"-ThXJ1.0.xV7.JFJpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29995 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: "Robert I. Eachus" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:02:26 -0400 > Hmmm. Let me backtrack a bit. The house in question was fairly > >tall--three floors, basement, and attic, with the first floor five feet > >above grade, and eleven foot ceilings. This meant that the base of >the >antenna, attached to a chimney was fifty-five feet above ground >level. >The house was sited on a small rise relative to the >surrounding community, >and the only thing at roof height within 15 >miles was the town water >tower. So I knew when I put the antenna >up that I was going to have to >ground it very well to avoid lightning >strikes. I drilled a ten foot hole >and put in a copper pipe. I then put >a cupful of salt in the pipe, tamped >the earth around the pipe, etc. I >then measured the resistance between >that ground and another >spike ground ten feet away. (Actually I measured >conductance: >1200 Mhos.) After the next thunderstorm blew through, I >measured it >again: 350 Mhos! Hmmm. The next day it was back over a > >thousand. So I put an ammeter in the circut next time ! >the weather was expected to get dicey > Robert I. Eachus I have been layed off from work and have some time to experiment. I plan to duplicate the above experiment with the exception of placing the antenna on a large tree covered hill near my house. Then I want to run an insulated cable from the antenna down to the base of the hill. The total height would be about 700 ft. I'm not interested in "capturing lightening" but want use it when there aren't any lightening storms to charge a huge capacitor made of styrofoam and steel wool. The capacitor could be used to more slowly charge a battery bank. Maybe such a system wouldn't produce enough energy for your house, but my intention is to see just how much energy on average such a set-up could produce. I live in Ohio and there are a lot of rainstorms and rainy days although many of them don't involve lightening.Does anyone know if this type of weather will cause a greater potential between ground and atmosphere? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 07:51:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09088; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:50:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:50:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005001bef476$8f490c40$0101a8c0 john> References: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:14:32 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Asteroids (reply to Mitchell's blank message complaint) Resent-Message-ID: <"MExWY3.0.vD2.pqJpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29996 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mitchell Jones wrote: >> ***{Whatever happened was apparently on John Logajan's end of the pipe. >> Everything else is coming through fine, including your stuff. As a matter >> of curiosity, were you able to read his messages? --MJ}*** > >Interestingly, all the content returned normally to me and is >logged and available for viewing in the vortex-l archive >(vortexb-l doesn't keep an archive.) > >http://www.escribe.com/science/vortex/ > >I used MS Outlook Express to generate the postings in question, >including this one. ***{Your posts this morning are coming through 5X5. Did you do anything different? (Did you change fonts, perhaps? I notice that the posts which came to me blank were in a very small font on the vortex archive.) --MJ}*** > >-- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan yahoo.com -- 651-633-8918 - > - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - > > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 07:52:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09158; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:50:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:50:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990831200957.00c29100 spectre.mitre.org> References: <3.0.5.32.19990831145640.00c5e5e0 spectre.mitre.org> <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> <000d01bef2e0$d0679d00$514eccd1 default> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:47:17 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Evolution (formerly Jed Rothwell on Skeptics) Resent-Message-ID: <"yXpMJ3.0.0F2.tqJpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29997 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 05:59 PM 8/31/1999 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: >>***{First, you seem to be under the impression that the birds appeared >>after the K-T impact. However, that is incorrect. Archaeopteryx, for >>example, was a creature of the Jurassic period, and lived in the midst of >>the age of the dinosaurs. > > Agreed, and I didn't say otherwise. > >>Second, you seem to be under the impression that there are large >>differences between dinosaurs and birds. But this is also incorrect. > > There are two major differences between birds and dinosaurs: 1) there >are no live dinosaurs ***{They serve dinosaur at KFC. :-) --MJ}*** , 2) birds feet are significantly different. Number two is the kind of thing I was addressing. Birds feet and dinosaur feet are two different solutions to the same problem, and it is difficult to imagine getting from one to the other in small steps. Consider a "topographic" map of feet, where height indicates favorability. Evolution moves uphill, but between dinosaur feet and bird feet there is a chasm. (In effect bird's feet are cold-blooded while the rest of the bird is not.) ***{I suggest that you compare the feet of a chicken to those of a T-rex and get back to me. :-) --MJ}*** > >>Third, you seem to be under the impression that the rate of evolution >>depends on the mutation rate. But that is false. High radiation counts >>merely reduce the number of viable offspring per mating, thereby slowing >>the reproductive rate. What speeds the rate of evolution within a >>population is the removal of competitors that are holding nearby niches. >>There is, for example, a pretty species of algae that, for decades, was >>kept in salt water aquariums as a decorative plant. Result: in that >>artificially constrained environment, it was enabled to occupy niches that, >>in the wild, were held by other species. As a consequence, it rapidly >>adapted to those new niches and, when an adapted variant was eventually >>released into the Mediterranean, it began to overwhelm species that >>previously had been able to hold their niches against it. As a result it is >>now regarded as a nuisance plant and a foreign invader by sappy >>"environmentalists." (I, on the other hand, am glad it is there: it has >>added as much beauty to the underwater landscape in the Mediterranean as it >>adds when present in a salt water aquarium.) Bottom line: the K-T >>extinctions speeded evolution not because of gamma radiation, but by >>removing vast numbers of species from their niches, thereby allowing the >>species that remained to proliferate into those niches. Once there, >>naturally, the selective pressures were different, and rapid evolutionary >>change to adapt to the new constraints was the result. > > The meteor that caused the K-T extiction was large enough that any >animal within range of its radiation was killed anyway, and most of the >K-T worldwide effects were due to the dust that later became the >iridium-containing boundary layer. Smaller impacts like the one that >caused Barringer Crater in Arizona, are the ones where radiation effects >can jump chasms in development. ***{I have no idea why you think radiation effects are prominent here. Perhaps you think that genetic mutations require radiation. If so, you are wildly incorrect. Most chromosomal changes are due to simple copying errors, and thus evolution gets along just fine without any dependence on radiation whatsoever. Indeed, the background count could be zero without influencing the rate of adaptation. (Though, of course, a background count of zero would, itself, require adaptation, since it would constitute a significant change in the environment. At present, animal populations need background radiation just as surely as flowering plants need sunlight.) --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > Robert I. Eachus > >with Standard_Disclaimer; >use Standard_Disclaimer; >function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 07:53:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11587; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:52:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:52:48 -0700 Message-ID: <37CD3DB7.152ADBDD verisoft.com.tr> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:52:39 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Istanbul Quake References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3E7UY.0.sq2._sJpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29998 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Jones wrote: > > ***{If they were "non-moving" are they still there? :-) If not, what was > the manner of their disappearance? The reason I ask is that I have read a > number of reports of "ball lightning" being an earthquake precursor. While > I know for a fact that ball lightning exists--I have seen it--most of the > reports I have read suggested that it moved about. In my own experience, it > did not move. What I saw was a lightning bolt strike the ground about 200 > feet to my right as I was driving down a road, and the entire ionized > pathway then broke up into a string of balls, roughly a foot in diameter, > which then simply disappeared. Moreover, there was no anomalous physics > involved: what I saw was exactly what my understanding of the physics would > have led me to expect. A ball that lingers in the sky for seconds or > minutes, or which moves about as a discrete entity, is quite another > matter. In that case, we either have some pretty anomalous plasma physics, > or else we have a UFO. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > > >Time after quake was an tragedy on the towns where the major damage was > >occurred. Government was too late to pickup people trapped under collapse > >building. They wasted first two days without knowing what they should do. > >They only started efficiently to dig after 80 hours. > I guess only less than one percent of the alive trapped people was rescued. > > ***{Unless prevented from doing so by authoritarian police and other > government functionaries, private people will immediately begin digging out > survivors after an earthquake, and they will use front loaders, bulldozers, > and other efficient means. It is a natural human response. > As I know, personal efforts are limited to hand work only, altrough most of the people are rescued by such work from partially collapsed buildings. [snip] > > ***{By the way, I saw predictions on the internet just prior to the quake > concerning a comet fragment that was supposed to hit that general area at > about that time, to be followed by a *much larger* fragment a month or so > later. Result: when I began reading reports of the "quake" I naturally > wondered if it really *was* a quake, and I sent you an e-mail asking about > it. (And, when you didn't reply, I concluded that you were lying at the > bottom of a pile of twisted rubble somewhere in East Istanbul. :-) Is it > possible that there is a big crater somewhere in the "earthquake" area? Is > there an area which has been cordoned off, to which access has been denied? > Or is the report I read just one more example of a crazy internet rumor? > --Mitchell Jones}*** I did not yet accessed the info on the internet, but this seems a fiction unless a meteor hit triggered the quake. This is because there is no one epicentre but the quake was spread along the fault line or lines. Second, the quake started by a humming noi se. this is typical to earthquakes. Thousands of trailing quakes are occurred and they still continuing. Clearly this is an major tectonic activity. There is also large cracks on the surface, and an area at shore named Degirmendere had sink by 30 to 15 me ter down and stay now under water. Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 08:22:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA20622; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:17:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:17:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990901095318.00798460 pop.mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:10:39 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Blank Logajan posts Resent-Message-ID: <"0CRSD1.0.825.ZEKpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/29999 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I think the posts from John Logajan which Mitchell cannot see are the ones >in HTML format. Some are coming accross in HTML and some in plaintext, and >the Mitchell is calling out the former, I think. I can read them all, but I >prefer plaintext. > >- Jed ***{I am using the current version of Eudora Pro, which has an "Open in Browser" command for dealing with HTML formatted e-mails. In John's case, however, there was absolutely no indication that the e-mail was in HTML format. It simply came through as blank, without the usual jungle of HTML commands obscuring the text, and so it never occurred to me that it was an HTML message. However, when I re-opened the problem messages and employed the "Open in Browser" command, I was, in fact, able to read all of John's messages. Therefore, thanks to you, the problem is solved! By the way, I also prefer plain text messages, unless the message contains something special that HTML is better suited to conveying--e.g., fancy formatting and graphics--because it is a pain to have to switch over to netscape to read routine e-mail. Eudora Pro has powerful e-mail handling tools (e.g., sorting) that are not available in most browsers, and I strongly prefer to use it whenever I can. Of John Logajan, therefore, I would ask: why are you sending out simple text messages in HTML format? Don't you think that is just a wee bit of overkill? --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 08:31:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA25783; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:30:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:30:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990901112110.00864ec0 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:21:10 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Blank Logajan posts In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990901095318.00798460 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6KnlF1.0.hI6.kQKpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30000 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:10 AM 9/1/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: >>I think the posts from John Logajan which Mitchell cannot see are the ones >>in HTML format. Some are coming accross in HTML and some in plaintext, and >>the Mitchell is calling out the former, I think. I can read them all, but I >>prefer plaintext. >> >>- Jed > >***{I am using the current version of Eudora Pro, which has an "Open in >Browser" command for dealing with HTML formatted e-mails. In John's case, >however, there was absolutely no indication that the e-mail was in HTML >format. It simply came through as blank, without the usual jungle of HTML >commands obscuring the text, and so it never occurred to me that it was an >HTML message. However, when I re-opened the problem messages and employed >the "Open in Browser" command, I was, in fact, able to read all of John's >messages. Therefore, thanks to you, the problem is solved! > >By the way, I also prefer plain text messages, unless the message contains >something special that HTML is better suited to conveying--e.g., fancy >formatting and graphics--because it is a pain to have to switch over to >netscape to read routine e-mail. Eudora Pro has powerful e-mail handling >tools (e.g., sorting) that are not available in most browsers, and I >strongly prefer to use it whenever I can. Of John Logajan, therefore, I >would ask: why are you sending out simple text messages in HTML format? >Don't you think that is just a wee bit of overkill? > >--Mitchell Jones}*** I received all of John's posts. The difficult to see ones, were "difficult to see" because the fonts was very very tiny. They rest were OK Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 08:36:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27372; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:35:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:35:03 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:39:26 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: HTML Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GhNpu2.0.ch6.dUKpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30001 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: PLEASE DO NOT SEND HTML This sucks up a WHOLE BUNCH of band width for small info.. PLEASE SEND ASCII ONLY From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 08:37:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA28290; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:36:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:36:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37CD3DB7.152ADBDD verisoft.com.tr> References: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:32:48 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: The Istanbul Quake Resent-Message-ID: <"-4xzt2.0.sv6.2WKpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30002 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mitchell Jones wrote: >> >> ***{If they were "non-moving" are they still there? :-) If not, what was >> the manner of their disappearance? The reason I ask is that I have read a >> number of reports of "ball lightning" being an earthquake precursor. While >> I know for a fact that ball lightning exists--I have seen it--most of the >> reports I have read suggested that it moved about. In my own experience, it >> did not move. What I saw was a lightning bolt strike the ground about 200 >> feet to my right as I was driving down a road, and the entire ionized >> pathway then broke up into a string of balls, roughly a foot in diameter, >> which then simply disappeared. Moreover, there was no anomalous physics >> involved: what I saw was exactly what my understanding of the physics would >> have led me to expect. A ball that lingers in the sky for seconds or >> minutes, or which moves about as a discrete entity, is quite another >> matter. In that case, we either have some pretty anomalous plasma physics, >> or else we have a UFO. --Mitchell Jones}*** >> >> > >> >Time after quake was an tragedy on the towns where the major damage was >> >occurred. Government was too late to pickup people trapped under collapse >> >building. They wasted first two days without knowing what they should do. >> >They only started efficiently to dig after 80 hours. >> I guess only less than one percent of the alive trapped people was rescued. >> >> ***{Unless prevented from doing so by authoritarian police and other >> government functionaries, private people will immediately begin digging out >> survivors after an earthquake, and they will use front loaders, bulldozers, >> and other efficient means. It is a natural human response. > >> As I know, personal efforts are limited to hand work only, altrough >>most of the people are rescued by such work from partially collapsed >>buildings. ***{I know little about the Turkish economy, but in the U.S. private individuals own lots of construction equipment: bulldozers, front loaders, fork lifts, winches, etc. The entire construction industry, in fact, is private. When a quake strikes, there is an immediate deluge of people and equipment into devastated areas, unless prevented by the police. If people in Turkey are "limited to hand work only," as you say, then I assume that the Turkish government monopolizes the construction industry, thereby ensuring shoddy construction, with consequent massive devastation when an earthquake occurs, and inadequate rescue efforts after it occurs. (Ain't fascism great! :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > >[snip] > >> >> ***{By the way, I saw predictions on the internet just prior to the quake >> concerning a comet fragment that was supposed to hit that general area at >> about that time, to be followed by a *much larger* fragment a month or so >> later. Result: when I began reading reports of the "quake" I naturally >> wondered if it really *was* a quake, and I sent you an e-mail asking about >> it. (And, when you didn't reply, I concluded that you were lying at the >> bottom of a pile of twisted rubble somewhere in East Istanbul. :-) Is it >> possible that there is a big crater somewhere in the "earthquake" area? Is >> there an area which has been cordoned off, to which access has been denied? >> Or is the report I read just one more example of a crazy internet rumor? >> --Mitchell Jones}*** > >I did not yet accessed the info on the internet, but this seems a fiction >unless a meteor hit triggered the quake. This is because there is no one >epicentre but the quake was spread along the fault line or lines. Second, >the quake started by a humming noise. this is typical to earthquakes. >Thousands of trailing quakes are occurred and they still continuing. >Clearly this is an major tectonic activity. There is also large cracks on >the surface, and an area at shore named Degirmendere had sink by 30 to 15 >meter down and stay now under water. ***{Wow! That is one hell of an earthquake! I'm glad you were on vacation when it hit! --MJ}*** > >Regards, > >hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:28:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18311; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:27:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:27:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:27:27 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Oh. My. God. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fL4XI2.0.xT4.rFLpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30003 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Bill Beaty has gone totally apeshit off the wall insane. Either I'm a raging paranoid lunatic with delusions of grandure, or I've just seen the core idea behind the Sweet device and the Hans Coler device, and probably the Tesla car, Hendershot device, and several others. It's the "partial-turn toroidial transformer", but with two changes. 1) We must use a particular core material so that the oscillating vector-potential field can mess with the nonlinear physics of nucleii. 2) We must build the magnetic-mode version, rather than the electrostatic-mode version I described in http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/a-vectFE.html What's the "magnetic mode" version? Simple. Rather than using a short dipole to connect to the toroidial inductor, we wind a simple loop antenna. Holding this loop antenna near the toroid will create some coupling, but it would even be better to wind the loop antenna around the toroid (wind it around the perimeter, as if the toroid was Saturn, and the loop-antenna windings were saturn's rings. Next we must locate an atomic resonance in the core material. I don't quite know how to do this. Drive the toroid with a high-power signal generator, then measure the loop antenna and look for slight rises in signal as the frequency of the toroid signal is swept around? Once a resonance is found, the loop antenna on the toroid must be connected in series with an LC tuned circuit set to the same frequency. Now, when you send the right frequency of signal to the toroid inductor, a huge signal will build up in the tuned circuit. This signal will violate conservation of energy. If you tap off some of this signal and use it to drive the toroid inductor, the whole device will go into runaway and probably smoke itself. Note: this has NOT BEEN TESTED. Why am I excited? BECAUSE THE TOPOLOGY IS IDENTICAL TO THE DEVICES IN THE ARTICLES ABOUT THE COLER DEVICE AND THE SWEET VTA!!!! In the Coler device, (the version with the circle of iron magnets), the coils behave exactly the same as my "toroid inductor", while the magnets act as the "loop antenna". In the Sweet device, the situation is similar. However, in both of these devices the inventor has forgotten to inform us that a tank circuit (tuned circuit or resonator) is needed. In the Coler device, the natural atomic resonance of the iron bar magnets will not be the same as the resonance of the coils he used, and so the effect will be incredibly weak or nonexistant. Just add some capacitors to tune the coils to the iron's resonance, and the thing will probably burst into flames. Sparky Sweet's "VTA" is similar: the coil that wraps AROUND the magnet block serves as the "toroid" and its field does not contact the other coil if there is a circle of magnet-blocks keeping the field inside them. If another coil is wrapped around the circle of magnet blocks (going in the same direction as the circle), that coil acts like the "loop antenna"... but nothing will happen unless that "loop antenna" is connected to a tuned circuit, and the tuned circuit is adjusted to whatever the barium ferrite frequency might be. Could somebody, anybody, PLEASE PLEASE mess with this idea? My instincts have been misguided before, but only rarely. Right now they scream that THIS IS THE BIG ONE. If they are wrong, then I'm ready for the nice men in the white coats. (Since Sweet claimed to be able to "program" his ferrite, maybe we could pump a big 60Hz current through the toroid of this F/E device, while heating and cooling it or while putting Neodymium magnets on it (to disturb the domains and "loosen " them so they lock to 60hz). Then tune the tuned circuit to 60hz, figure out the +- phase of the connections, connect output to input (maybe need an impedance matching transformer), and stand back. It should get hot really fast. If it blows up reliably, then we can take it to Burning Man festival next week! :) If people try this and it doesn't work, then perhaps I can pay you for the time you wasted. Seriously. Many people have screamed "I've got it" in the past, without actually building anything. I can't build anything, I'm on the road. I can't stand it! Somebody else try this out before I get back and have a chance to try it myself. - Bill Beaty - w/delerious visions late at night - on vacation in N. California ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:34:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA21479; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:32:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:32:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:29:44 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Slick vs. the Stock Market Resent-Message-ID: <"UHN4_.0.RF5._JLpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30004 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Why is this political BS on Vortex-l??? >Ron ***{The ongoing destruction of America by a criminal gang is fact, not BS; and the tendency of mainstream Americans to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it isn't happening is fact as well. (The same sick, twisted desire to "fit in" led supposedly good Germans, in the 1930's and early 1940's, to pretend that the Holocaust wasn't happening.) As for why non-science comments by many individuals appear routinely on the science list, ask Bill Beaty. As long as vortexb-l is not archived, there will be a temptation to post comments that do not relate to science on the science lists. The fact of the matter is that the level of substantive content on the vortexb-l list has always equalled or exceeded that on the vortex-l list, though the focus has been different, and people who are interested in such matters consider them to be *at least* as important as the science, and want them to be archived. One central repository of information is superior to everybody keeping his own private repository, because it eliminates duplication of effort. Since posters of "non-science" material will have to store a copy forever on their own computer if they post it to vortexb-l, they post it to vortex-l instead. While this state of affairs is regrettable, it is an outgrowth of the incentives that are presently in place. --Mitchell Jones}*** [snip] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:44:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27455; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:43:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:43:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990901124741.00d23b30 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 12:47:41 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Jed Rothwell on Skeptics: some comments In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> <000d01bef2e0$d0679d00$514eccd1 default> <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PFJNy3.0.oi6.yULpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30005 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:20 PM 9/1/1999 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >This is news to me. Could you explain the mechanism perhaps? A solid >object travelling at 70000 mph has a kinetic energy of about 5 eV per >nucleon. Even allowing for about 200 nucleons in a fairly heavy nucleus, >that's still only about 1000 eV per nucleus. So I could see how you >might get some mild x-rays, but gamma rays would have to come from some >form of nuclear reaction wouldn't they? I assume you know about the plasma sheath that forms around re-entering spacecraft and blanks out radio communication? This is just a bigger form of the same phenomena, but size does make a difference. The available energy clearly goes up linearly w ith the mass, but larger objects have a qualitatively different effect as well. The shock waves can't displace the air far enough to get out of the way. The much higher speed also has an effect--the energy goes up with the square, and for typical meteors is in the range of 20 to 30 km/sec compared to the space shuttle's eight. The plasma forms a cone shaped channel that contains most of the radiation and releases it toward the sides. Again, an effect of size, the direction that most of the radiation go es is almost a flat disk for the larger hits, while for smaller rocks, it is mostly directed upward. Yes, the plasma temperatures do get above the Lawson criteria and can cause fusion. However, most of the radiation is bremstrallung as neutral molecules enter the plasma, get ionized and are rapidly accelerated. Note that the incomming object itself stays fairly cool until it hits. Finally, if you don't believe me, look at the recently released Vela satellite data. They have been detecting several meteor strikes a year in the kiloton (of TNT) energy range, most of them not seen from the ground. In one of them a few years ago, o ne of these a little larger than usual entered the atmosphere over SAC headquarters in Omaha. For a few minutes they thought it was a nuclear attack--bright flash, followed seconds later by a shock wave, and radiation detectors going off. (Again, the ob ject itself stays fairly cool. It is believed that this one was a mixture of ammonia, carbon dioxide, water and methane, and exploded when it reached boiling temperature.) Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 09:56:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00321; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:55:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:55:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:53:06 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Slick vs. the Stock Market Resent-Message-ID: <"Uoiye.0.w4.ifLpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30006 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Why is this political BS on Vortex-l??? >Ron ***{By the way, this particular "BS" is not, and was never, on vortex-l. Every post on the subject of Slick vs. the Stock Market has been on vortexb-l, with the sole exception of my two responses to your complaint (the previous one and this one), which seemed to belong on vortex-l. --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 10:07:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03799; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:03:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:03:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990901130700.00d15100 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 13:07:00 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Energy-sucking antennas In-Reply-To: <19990901140956.83416.qmail hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lKQpX2.0.Hx.dnLpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30007 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:09 AM 9/1/1999 PDT, Peter Aldo wrote: > I live in Ohio and there are a lot of >rainstorms and rainy days although many of them don't involve >lightening.Does anyone know if this type of weather will cause a greater >potential between ground and atmosphere? Oh, yes... When a thunderstorm approaches, or for that matter any thunderhead cloud, the voltage you will see will go up a lot. Get a copy of the ARRL Handbook to see how to protect from overvoltage. Since you want to collect the DC to ground, you n eed something like this: | | (Choke Coil) | (Energy sucker ;-) (Full wave bridge) | =========== \________________________________()_()_()_()______________<^>____ + | ______|_____ | (Lightning arrestor) ____________ | (To energy ___|____ (High Voltage ___|___ ___|___ storage) ______ Capacitor) _____ _____ ___ __ __ You can probably replace the full wave bridge with a "simple" diode, but the purpose is to prevent energy from the battery from sustaining an arc in the lightning arrestor. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 11:54:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05507; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:53:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:53:39 -0700 Message-ID: <37CD7752.AD7AFC96 ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:58:27 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty , "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3GPJm.0.tL1.pONpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30008 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Sept. 1, 1999 Beaty - Vortex, You might be interested in a 2 KW (110 v. 60 cycle ac)100% toroid wound laminated iron core power transformer that probably can be adapted for your speculation - experimentation. It seems to fit your needs. -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 12:16:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12371; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:14:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:14:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990901151543.007a7290 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:15:43 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Ron: notice the heading, Vortex-BL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"313wp3.0.C13.niNpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30009 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ron: You sounded disconcerted when you wrote: "Why is this political BS on Vortex-l???" You may not have noticed that the message originated on the gab channel: vortexb-l eskimo.com With Eudora, it is a piece of cake to redirect messages with a set heading into a new box or directly into the trash. Select Filters, Incoming, Header contains. I don't know how easy it is with the Microsoft e-mail handler. The only advantage that program has, by the way, is that it handles Japanese, Russian, Greek and a bunch of other non-roman scripts. On another subject, I hate to sound like a flack for this company Dragon, but the latest improvement to their NatSpeak voice input program is amazing. They have a USB microphone which does an end run around the computer audio system, which greatly improves accuracy. I do not understand why, because my computer sound card is supposed to be the best that Dell sells. Maybe this other one was engineered specifically for voice input apps. I predict that someday voice input will someday sweep the market, and it will be seen as the most important computer applications since word processing. Since I'm not a flack I will point out that the software itself is buggy and unreliable. It crashes frequently. I suppose it would infuriate anyone but an old hacker who is used to dealing with 64 K. RAM. I have the control-S twitch, so I seldom lose data. If it stops working for more than 30 seconds . . . hey, that's why they put the reset button on the front of the computer. Or as they say in New York: fugeddaboutit. - Jed - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 14:15:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13961; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:14:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:14:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990901171400.007a81e0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:14:00 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Exploding meteors In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990901124741.00d23b30 spectre.mitre.org> References: <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> <000d01bef2e0$d0679d00$514eccd1 default> <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WOIxd1.0.3Q3.cSPpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30010 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert I. Eachus wrote: >They have been detecting several meteor strikes a year in the kiloton (of TNT) >energy range, most of them not seen from the ground. In one of them a few >years ago, one of these a little larger than usual entered the atmosphere >over SAC headquarters in Omaha. For a few minutes they thought it was a >nuclear attack--bright flash, followed seconds later by a shock wave, and >radiation detectors going off. (Again, the object itself stays fairly cool. >It is believed that this one was a mixture of ammonia, carbon dioxide, water >and methane, and exploded when it reached boiling temperature.) Exploded? Did the whole thing reach boiling point at one time and instantly go through a phase transistion? I should think it would ablate and release the energy slowly. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 14:43:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20638; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:40:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:40:17 -0700 Message-ID: <37CD9D8C.58597D23 bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:41:32 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Exploding meteors References: <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> <000d01bef2e0$d0679d00$514eccd1 default> <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> <3.0.6.32.19990901171400.007a81e0@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GhQJm2.0.O25.1rPpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30011 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > Exploded? Did the whole thing reach boiling point at one time and instantly > go through a phase transistion? I should think it would ablate and release > the energy slowly. There's a good description of why meteors and comets explode at: http://www.fisbat.bo.cnr.it/homepp/dinamica/foschini/impact.html about 5/8ths of the way through the page. It is believed that a sizeable comet exploded several kilometers above the ground on June 30, 1908 in Tunguska. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 15:37:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06991; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:35:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:35:29 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990901233407.00986330 flux.tao.org.uk> X-Sender: joe flux.tao.org.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 23:35:11 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Josef Karthauser Subject: Re: Slick vs. the Stock Market In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"6FoAb1.0.4j1.neQpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30012 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:29 01/09/99 -0500, you wrote: >As for why non-science comments by many individuals appear routinely on the >science list, ask Bill Beaty. As long as vortexb-l is not archived, there >will be a temptation to post comments that do not relate to science on the >science lists. The fact of the matter is that the level of substantive >content on the vortexb-l list has always equalled or exceeded that on the >vortex-l list, though the focus has been different, and people who are >interested in such matters consider them to be *at least* as important as >the science, and want them to be archived. One central repository of >information is superior to everybody keeping his own private repository, >because it eliminates duplication of effort. Since posters of "non-science" >material will have to store a copy forever on their own computer if they >post it to vortexb-l, they post it to vortex-l instead. While this state of >affairs is regrettable, it is an outgrowth of the incentives that are >presently in place. Do people want vortex-l archived? I've got a fair bit of facilities available to me and could easily organise this if required. Joe From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 16:05:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13483; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:59:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:59:11 -0700 MR-Received: by mta SOCCER; Relayed; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:58:40 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:26:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Sparks are flying!!! To: freenrg-l , vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E2208ZYBVR3QS8 X400-MTS-identifier: [;04858110909991/4083302 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"HZZqH1.0.WI3.--Qpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30013 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: All, Maybe I'm a little dense, but, I keep coming back to a common thread in many of these OU devices, the spark. I've brought this up before but it didn't go anywhere. But recently: Stephan Hartmann in his inquires about spark gap oxidation generated electricity (back spikes). And, Henry Curtis's note about Santilli's work. So I thought I'd give it another try. We have the two ideas presented 1) Stephan Hartmann's idea about a simple chemical reaction going on in the spark gap that has as a by-product some extra electrons. 2) In Santilli's data oxygen is combining with several different low molecular weight elements including carbon to form higher atomic weight elements with the liberation of energy in commercial quantities. Let me add 3 more off the wall conjectures. 3) Remember when Stephan brought up the subject of air entrainment when he blew into a tube with a 1 inch gap between his mouth and the tube, how he got significantly more air volume than when his mouth was directly against the end of the tube. Couldn't something similar be going on with electrons in a spark gap. Maybe as the spark jumps the gap through the air it is entraining excess atmospheric electrons/ions to add too the expected amount of flow. (Yah, I know it's kind of a stretch, but what the hey!) Question: Has anyone tried to replicate this in a sealed environment, so that at some point any excess atmospheric electrons would become depleted? 4) A spark gap could be considered at different moments a capacitor & a resistor. A capacitor in that two conductive surfaces separated by a dielectric (air) with one side connected to a charge, and the other to ground (or whatever). A resistor in that it conducts electricity from one point to another converting some electrons into other forms of energy in the transfer (heat, light). I've even seen it referred to as negative resistance? Consider, in a commutator type spark gap you have two plates in proximity to each other, one with a charge. As the commutator turns these plates are pulled apart in distance thus converting mechanical energy into electrical. Thus momentarily the charged plate has more energy than it was initially given (back spike?). Then as the charge grows from being stretched it reaches a critical level where the dielectric properties of the air fail and the charge jumps across as a spark. Consider also that the spark forms as the conductors are pulled apart, not so much as when the conductors are brought together as the resistance of the dielectric decreases. Perhaps the reverse would apply, as the plates of a capacitor get closer the charge decreases. The attraction of opposite charges pull the plates closer converting electrical energy into mechanical energy. Thus Newman's battery provides the initial charge, then the mechanical energy of the commutator is converted to electricity and fed back to the battery. I think this may also apply to Zaev's system. This would not apply to a fixed gap spark plug type situation. (Yah, I know this is also a stretch {pun intended ;^} ) Question: Has the energy involved in turning the commutator been properly accounted for in the overall system? And last, in the off the wall category..... 5) Tom Bearden's papers indicate that any capacitor is a ZPE gateway, the problem is getting it to stay open to a ZPE energy flow. There may be a connection here. If the commutator spark gap can be considered a capacitor, perhaps during the dynamics of the changing capacitive conductive values involved, the conditions are momentarily right to allow a brief ZPE energy flow to add to the energy of the system. Comments please.... Bill webriggs concentric.net briggs XLNsystems.com DISCLAIMER - Any flaky hair brained ideas presented are my own, and not the flaky hair brained ideas of my employer. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 17:28:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09361; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:26:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:26:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990901203026.009356b0 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 20:30:26 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Exploding meteors Cc: vortex-L eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990901171400.007a81e0 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990901124741.00d23b30 spectre.mitre.org> <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> <000d01bef2e0$d0679d00$514eccd1 default> <3.0.5.32.19990831141720.00c5e3b0 spectre.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZR-o73.0.5I2.sGSpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30014 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:14 PM 9/1/1999 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: >Exploded? Did the whole thing reach boiling point at one time and instantly >go through a phase transistion? I should think it would ablate and release >the energy slowly. This is one of those wierd things that makes sense once you think about it. The heat (mostly from radiation) is applied only to the "front" of the object. Any gasses that result get trapped between the plasma and the object itself. So you have a lo t of gas under high pressure. The solid part of the object is the cork in the bottle. When either the gas pressure gets too high, the cork loses enough mass, or the rate of deceleration decreases enough, the cork gets blown out. If the object is someth ing that is solid at more normal temperatures, it falls to the ground as a meteorite, if it is liquid or gas at normal temperatures, remember that it now has to fall through a lot of hot gas, so there is unlikely to be any left to hit the ground. Above a certain size, the cork stays in down to the ground. Then you get large craters (and radiation at ground level). This is why there are no "small" craters to be found on Earth--there is a mass range where such explosions are the norm. (The mo st famous is the one over Siberia early in this century, but there have been several in the same size range since. No one has yet recovered any material from any of these objects.) Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 18:35:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA28371; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:34:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:34:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19990902013334.57377.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.56.140.193] From: "e lewis" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Istanbul Quake Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:33:34 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"qNubc2.0.Cx6.EGTpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30015 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Maybe people would be interested in looking at my site: http://207.225.33.111 >From: Mitchell Jones >Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com >To: vortex-l eskimo.com >Subject: The Istanbul Quake >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:55:02 -0500 > > >Mitchell Jones wrote: > >> > >> >>Vo, > >> >>I don't know his private email but is Hamdi okay? > >> >>Remi. > >> > > >> >I thought I read that he was going on vacation not too long ago, and >don't > >> >remember if I read that he returned. I just saw the report on the > >> >earthquake myself, so it is quite possible that the phone lines are >down or > >> >a major part of the internet in that area is inaccessable. We'll just >have > >> >to wait and hope for the best, unless there is someone in the area >that can > >> >shed more light on the subject. > >> > >I was not Istanbul at the time of the quake. I live at Bosphorus area > >which is about 40 miles distance from the area it did some damage, a > >suburban area. Actually Istanbul remain intact. Last night a TV channel > >showed a recording prior the quake the famous mysterious lights on the > >sky. Lights balls appeared as non moving but fluctuating bright compacts > >sources. These are not look like as ionization by electrical discharges. > >Clearly an unknown phenomenon. They look like the light reported on UFO > >reports. > >***{If they were "non-moving" are they still there? :-) If not, what was >the manner of their disappearance? The reason I ask is that I have read a >number of reports of "ball lightning" being an earthquake precursor. While >I know for a fact that ball lightning exists--I have seen it--most of the >reports I have read suggested that it moved about. In my own experience, it >did not move. What I saw was a lightning bolt strike the ground about 200 >feet to my right as I was driving down a road, and the entire ionized >pathway then broke up into a string of balls, roughly a foot in diameter, >which then simply disappeared. Moreover, there was no anomalous physics >involved: what I saw was exactly what my understanding of the physics would >have led me to expect. A ball that lingers in the sky for seconds or >minutes, or which moves about as a discrete entity, is quite another >matter. In that case, we either have some pretty anomalous plasma physics, >or else we have a UFO. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > > >Time after quake was an tragedy on the towns where the major damage was > >occurred. Government was too late to pickup people trapped under >collapse > >building. They wasted first two days without knowing what they should do. > >They only started efficiently to dig after 80 hours. >I guess only less than one percent of the alive trapped people was rescued. > >***{Unless prevented from doing so by authoritarian police and other >government functionaries, private people will immediately begin digging out >survivors after an earthquake, and they will use front loaders, bulldozers, >and other efficient means. It is a natural human response. Moreover, it >saves *lots* of lives in the net, despite the occasional person who is >crunched accidentally by shifting rubble. In the U.S., prior to the dumbing >down of the population and the institution of fascism, people would >typically work themselves into states of exhaustion in the first 48 hours >after a major quake, digging out hundreds or thousands of survivors in the >process. Even people who were not residents in the area, including even >tourists from other countries, would voluntarily roll up their sleeves and >join the effort. More and more, however, the tendency is for people to be >ordered out of disaster areas so that teams of supposedly "trained" >government employees can "save" the trapped people. As a result, a vast >reduction in the magnitude and competence of the rescue effort occurs, and >most of those who might have been saved perish needlessly. It sounds to me >like that is exactly what happened in your country. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Even few percent of the identified alives by detection teams was accessed >because the disorganization and shortage of excavation kind machines. > > > >Regards, > > > >hamdi ucar > > > >***{By the way, I saw predictions on the internet just prior to the quake >concerning a comet fragment that was supposed to hit that general area at >about that time, to be followed by a *much larger* fragment a month or so >later. Result: when I began reading reports of the "quake" I naturally >wondered if it really *was* a quake, and I sent you an e-mail asking about >it. (And, when you didn't reply, I concluded that you were lying at the >bottom of a pile of twisted rubble somewhere in East Istanbul. :-) Is it >possible that there is a big crater somewhere in the "earthquake" area? Is >there an area which has been cordoned off, to which access has been denied? >Or is the report I read just one more example of a crazy internet rumor? >--Mitchell Jones}*** > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 18:44:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31832; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:43:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:43:51 -0700 Message-ID: <19990902014318.44775.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.56.140.193] From: "e lewis" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Istanbul Quake Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:43:18 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Tdrxk2.0.Hn7.MPTpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30016 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There is a section on my site there on ball lightning, Ed ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 18:56:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA02489; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:55:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:55:02 -0700 Message-ID: <021301bef4ee$4beefd60$24441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Tunguska (Meteor in Siberia) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:52:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF4B3.76AC9DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"2FZO21.0.pc.rZTpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30017 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF4B3.76AC9DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lots of web sites on this one http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/tu99foto.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF4B3.76AC9DE0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Tunguska.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Tunguska.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/tu99foto.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/tu99foto.htm Modified=000DA0F0EDF4BE013D ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF4B3.76AC9DE0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 19:21:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10461; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:18:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:18:53 -0700 Message-ID: <022201bef4f1$9fd848c0$24441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Output Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:15:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF4B6.C9A34BE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"VUSwd.0.JZ2.CwTpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30018 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF4B6.C9A34BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tunguska and Cold Fusion? http://coldfusion.discover.com/output.cfm?ID=859 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF4B6.C9A34BE0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Output.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Output.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://coldfusion.discover.com/output.cfm?ID=859 [InternetShortcut] URL=http://coldfusion.discover.com/output.cfm?ID=859 Modified=80E26149F1F4BE01B0 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF4B6.C9A34BE0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 19:41:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16117; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:39:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:39:58 -0700 Message-ID: <00a001bef4ec$76721600$0101a8c0 john> From: "John Logajan" To: References: Subject: Re: Blank Logajan posts Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:40:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009D_01BEF4C2.8B9CE2A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"6LQa13.0.lx3.zDUpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30019 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BEF4C2.8B9CE2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jed wrote: >I think the posts from John Logajan which Mitchell=20 > cannot see are the ones in HTML format. Mitchell Jones wrote: >Of John Logajan, therefore, I would ask: > why are you sending out simple text messages in HTML format? > Don't you think that is just a wee bit of overkill? I'm in the process of switching over to a cable modem ISP. I used to do e-mails via telnet'd elm. Now I am learning the ropes of MS Outlook Express, which for some reason forces plain text into a proportional font. Therefore to compose in fixed font courier, I have to enable HTML rich text. The trick is to remember to turn off rich text just before posting. =20 --=20 - John Logajan -- jlogajan yahoo.com -- 651-633-8918 - - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BEF4C2.8B9CE2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jed wrote: >I think the = posts from John=20 Logajan which Mitchell
   > cannot = see are the=20 ones in HTML format.
 
Mitchell Jones wrote: >Of John Logajan, therefore, I would=20 ask:
   > why are you sending out simple text = messages=20 in HTML format?
   > Don't you think that is just a wee = bit of=20 overkill?
 
I'm in the=20 process of switching over to a cable modem ISP.  I = used
to do=20 e-mails via telnet'd elm.  Now I am learning the = ropes
of MS=20 Outlook Express, which for some reason forces plain
text into a=20 proportional font.  Therefore to compose in
fixed font=20 courier, I have to enable HTML rich text. The
trick is to=20 remember to turn off rich text just before
posting. 
--
 - John Logajan -- = jlogajan@yahoo.com  --  = 651-633-8918 -
 - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) = 55112=20 USA -
------=_NextPart_000_009D_01BEF4C2.8B9CE2A0-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 22:26:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA28311; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:23:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:23:11 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:23:02 -1000 Subject: Grates peach wreck ignition come in rail soon... From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909020123.SM00077 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"8L3Ct.0.Hw6._cWpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30020 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed - > I predict that someday voice input will someday sweep the > market, and it will be seen as the most important computer applications > since word processing. At Seybold where iCEO Jobs just introduced the new Macs, they had some demo of a 3rd party speech system that was supposedly pretty great; someone was just taking away at normal speed and it was all coming out accurately on the screen. I think your prediction is good, and may only be a couple of years out by now. Hopefully. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 1 23:33:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12079; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:32:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:32:37 -0700 Message-ID: <19990902063426.19703.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:34:26 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: Tom Valone/PTO To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"VUJLy1.0.fy2.4eXpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30021 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: One of the champions of the "new/free" energy movement, Tom Valone, was ousted from his postion at the patent office. One more example of the "long arm" of our government. Ron Kita __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 01:58:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA00056; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:55:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:55:52 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990901151543.007a7290 pop.mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 02:55:25 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: The Future of Voice Input Resent-Message-ID: <"aCPGv1.0.k.OkZpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30022 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [snip] I hate to sound like a flack for this company Dragon, >but the latest improvement to their NatSpeak voice input program is >amazing. They have a USB microphone which does an end run around the >computer audio system, which greatly improves accuracy. I do not >understand why, because my computer sound card is supposed to be the best >that Dell sells. Maybe this other one was engineered specifically for voice >input apps. I predict that someday voice input will someday sweep the >market, and it will be seen as the most important computer applications >since word processing. ***{My first reaction to the above statement was that voice input would be limited to areas where computers could be controlled via relatively simple commands. When large ambiguities must be overcome to convey the nature of the command, it seemed that keyboard input in some form would remain superior. The first case I considered was that of trying to verbally command the computer to "Delete the text from acty on page 246 to daily record on page 255." To accomplish the task in that way, you have to first determine that there is only one 'acty' on pg. 246, and only one instance of 'daily record' on pg. 255. Thus it would be far easier to simply highlight the text to be deleted, and then hit the delete key. However, it then immediately occurred to me that if voice commands were substituted for word processor commands on a one-for-one basis, such objections would fade away. In that case, you would simply say: "Highlight the text from acty on pg. 246 to daily record on pg. 255," and then check to see what had been highlighted. If, after checking, you were satisfied that the proper area had been highlighted, you could then say "Delete highlighted text." Thus, by this way of going at the problem, vendors of word processing software would simply add a set of voice input commands to their modules, and leave the rest of their code essentially unchanged. Result: it appears that the potential may exist for efficiently eliminating both the keyboard and the mouse as input instruments. I will have to think about this for awhile before I will know whether I believe it, but it is very interesting. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Since I'm not a flack I will point out that the software itself is buggy >and unreliable. It crashes frequently. I suppose it would infuriate anyone >but an old hacker who is used to dealing with 64 K. RAM. I have the >control-S twitch, so I seldom lose data. If it stops working for more than >30 seconds . . . hey, that's why they put the reset button on the front of >the computer. Or as they say in New York: fugeddaboutit. > >- Jed > > >- Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 03:16:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA08415; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:14:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:14:58 -0700 Message-ID: <025501bef534$223425e0$24441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Running the Case Cell Wet? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:12:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"i655B1.0.P32.Yuapt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30023 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To: Vortex I come up with 195 deg C (382 F or 468 K) as the (possible) optimum operating temperature for the Case-Type Cell. Using D2O with K2CO3 mixed with the Pd-Carbon Catalyst at 382 F will entail a pressure of about 185 PSIG. >From Biomass Hydrolysis experience, I don't think this would have any adverse effect on the activated carbon catalyst. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 03:57:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA13482; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:57:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:57:09 -0700 Message-ID: <026701bef53a$08c6b0e0$24441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:55:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"enBZ52.0.VI3.5Wbpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30024 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BTW, Ed Using D2O or H2O with K2CO3 at 200 PSIG steam pressure in the disposable liter-sized steel Coleman propane bottles shouldn't be a problem. These bottles should have a burst pressure above 600 PSIG. One can obtain high grade activated carbon for about $7.00/lb at pet stores that handle it for fishtank filters. Wal-Mart of Course. :-) Cartridge heaters that can be inserted into the cells are off-the-shelf items from watlow electric www.watlow.com Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 06:21:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02820; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:18:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:18:42 -0700 Message-ID: <00b901bef546$1bd7dcc0$89627dc7 computer> From: "Ed Wall" To: References: <025501bef534$223425e0$24441d26 fjsparber> Subject: Re: Running the Case Cell Wet? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:21:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"UZnv33.0.-h.oadpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30026 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > I come up with 195 deg C (382 F or 468 K) as the (possible) > optimum operating temperature for the Case-Type Cell. > > Using D2O with K2CO3 mixed with the Pd-Carbon Catalyst at > 382 F will entail a pressure of about 185 PSIG. > > >From Biomass Hydrolysis experience, I don't think this would > have any adverse effect on the activated carbon catalyst. Well, this is one variation that I have not tried, and probably won't. I did do a number of runs in and around 195C. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com (603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 06:21:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA02277; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:16:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:16:29 -0700 Message-ID: <00ad01bef545$cbd476c0$89627dc7 computer> From: "Ed Wall" To: References: <026701bef53a$08c6b0e0$24441d26 fjsparber> Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:19:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"YQkgq1.0.VZ.iYdpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30025 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > BTW, Ed > > Using D2O or H2O with K2CO3 at 200 PSIG steam pressure in the > disposable liter-sized steel Coleman propane bottles shouldn't be a problem. > > These bottles should have a burst pressure above 600 PSIG. > > One can obtain high grade activated carbon for about $7.00/lb at pet > stores that handle it for fishtank filters. Wal-Mart of Course. :-) > > Cartridge heaters that can be inserted into the cells are off-the-shelf > items from watlow electric www.watlow.com It is a real possibility that an inserted heater outgassing may be a contamination issue. Ordinary steel is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking due to hydrogen attack (embrittlement). McKubre specifies either SS316L or SS318. This is in line with what I have learned from other scientific sources. I experienced cracking with the stainless steel 'football' bottle that we got from Case. It is probably SS304. SS that is not low-carbon is or that is not austenitic will suffer cracking at accelerated rates. This is aggrivated by the heating cycles employed. Case is adamant in his claim about the difference between different catalysts, and even different batches of the same catalyst. It would be unwise to enter into the wandering search for a catalyst that he has spent so much time already executing. With a cold trap, I found I was able to extract about a third of a film canister of water from 50g of catalyst. Leaving the water in would be in direct conflict with established protocol. Given the growing body of evidence for the reality of the claims, I think the problem is failure to replicate accurately, not in trying too few variations. I appreciate your comments. Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com (603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 06:54:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA12442; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:53:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:53:33 -0700 Message-ID: <19990902135302.56319.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [216.3.0.108] From: "Peter Aldo" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy Sucking Antennas/ Robert Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:53:02 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"2AmrN2.0.K23.T5ept" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30027 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From: "Robert I. Eachus" >Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com >To: vortex-l eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Energy-sucking antennas >Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 13:07:00 -0400 > > Oh, yes... When a thunderstorm approaches, or for that matter any >thunderhead cloud, the voltage you will see will go up a lot. Get a copy >of the ARRL Handbook to see how to protect from overvoltage. Since you >want to collect the DC to ground, you need something like this: > > | > | (Choke Coil) > | (Energy sucker ;-) (Full wave bridge) > | =========== > \________________________________()_()_()_()______________<^>____ + > | ______|_____ | > (Lightning arrestor) ____________ | (To >energy > ___|____ (High Voltage ___|___ ___|___ >storage) > ______ Capacitor) _____ _____ > ___ __ __ > > You can probably replace the full wave bridge with a "simple" diode, >but the purpose is to prevent energy from the battery from sustaining an >arc in the lightning arrestor. > > Robert I. Eachus > >with Standard_Disclaimer; >use Standard_Disclaimer; >function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... > > Thanks for the info, Robert. I have a few questions about your diagram I was hoping you could answer. I'm not sure I understand what the choke is for exactly. Do you mean it can be used instead of a capacitor? Also, is that a ground after the choke (in between the choke and rectifier)? Wouldn't that ground short circuit the whole thing ? Before the current reached the batteries? Thanks, Pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 07:02:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15170; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:01:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:01:47 -0700 Message-ID: <00d901bef54c$20bb0680$89627dc7 computer> From: "Ed Wall" To: References: <025501bef534$223425e0$24441d26 fjsparber> Subject: Vortex email problem Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:38:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"FgYUl3.0.ti3.BDept" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30028 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vo, Am I the only one who gets the Re:subject messages quite often, and never receiving the subject message (like the following one from FS)? Ed Wall New Energy Research Laboratory Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com (603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:12 AM Subject: Re: Running the Case Cell Wet? > To: Vortex > > I come up with 195 deg C (382 F or 468 K) as the (possible) > optimum operating temperature for the Case-Type Cell. > > Using D2O with K2CO3 mixed with the Pd-Carbon Catalyst at > 382 F will entail a pressure of about 185 PSIG. > > >From Biomass Hydrolysis experience, I don't think this would > have any adverse effect on the activated carbon catalyst. > > Regards, Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 07:10:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA17340; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:08:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:08:51 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00d901bef54c$20bb0680$89627dc7 computer> References: <025501bef534$223425e0$24441d26 fjsparber> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:06:51 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Vortex email problem Resent-Message-ID: <"BdlFg3.0.sE4.pJept" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30029 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Vo, > >Am I the only one who gets the Re:subject messages quite often, and never >receiving the subject message (like the following one from FS)? ***{I also failed to receive a message for that thread which had no "Re:" at the beginning. My guess is that Frederick used the "Re:" as part of his original subject line. --MJ}*** > > >Ed Wall >New Energy Research Laboratory >Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 >ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com >(603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Frederick Sparber >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:12 AM >Subject: Re: Running the Case Cell Wet? > > >> To: Vortex >> >> I come up with 195 deg C (382 F or 468 K) as the (possible) >> optimum operating temperature for the Case-Type Cell. >> >> Using D2O with K2CO3 mixed with the Pd-Carbon Catalyst at >> 382 F will entail a pressure of about 185 PSIG. >> >> >From Biomass Hydrolysis experience, I don't think this would >> have any adverse effect on the activated carbon catalyst. >> >> Regards, Frederick >> >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 07:41:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA27247; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:39:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:39:28 -0700 Message-ID: <37CE8C71.7B26A3C9 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:40:49 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? References: <026701bef53a$08c6b0e0$24441d26 fjsparber> <00ad01bef545$cbd476c0$89627dc7@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-ftKU3.0.ff6.Vmept" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30030 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed Wall wrote: > Ordinary steel is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking due to > hydrogen attack (embrittlement). This has always puzzled me. Does anyone know how hydrogen embrittlement reduces the tensile strength of steel? One of my first projects as an engineer was to determine why an overhead conveyor chain in a poultry processing plant was breaking. An independent lab determined that the fault was hydrogen embrittlement during the plating process of the chain segments. Could it be a CF effect? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 07:59:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA31810; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:58:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:58:25 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:57:51 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:51:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: RE: Vortex email problem In-reply-to: <00d901bef54c$20bb0680$89627dc7 computer> To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2202ZYBWFNIOE X400-MTS-identifier: [;15750120909991/4084773 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"a6R0e2.0.ym7.G2fpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30031 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ed, Your not the only one, I never got the original either. "Running the Case Cell Wet?" What could be happening is someone get's an original email from outside of Vortex and when they reply to it they add Vortex to the reply to list. Bill webriggs concentric.net briggs XLNsystems.com >Vo, >Am I the only one who gets the Re:subject messages quite often, and never >receiving the subject message (like the following one from FS)? >Ed Wall >New Energy Research Laboratory >Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 >ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com >(603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 >----- Original Message ----- >From: Frederick Sparber >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:12 AM >Subject: Re: Running the Case Cell Wet? >> To: Vortex >> Blah, blah blah... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 08:19:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA05458; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:18:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:18:44 -0700 Message-ID: <028101bef55e$92d02cc0$24441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <026701bef53a$08c6b0e0$24441d26 fjsparber> <00ad01bef545$cbd476c0$89627dc7@computer> Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:15:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"rAtr52.0.7L1.JLfpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30032 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Wall To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 6:19 AM Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Ed Wall wrote: > > > Ordinary steel is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking due to > hydrogen attack (embrittlement). McKubre specifies either SS316L or SS318. > This is in line with what I have learned from other scientific sources. I > experienced cracking with the stainless steel 'football' bottle that we got > from Case. It is probably SS304. SS that is not low-carbon is or that is > not austenitic will suffer cracking at accelerated rates. This is > aggrivated by the heating cycles employed. Ordinary steel has been used in High Pressure Steam Boilers for almost three Centurys, Hydrogen Embrittlement is NOT a Problem with Alkaline H2O or D2O. I have worked with boilers for over 30 years, and this the first time that I've heard that you have to retube one because of Hydrogen problems. :-) > > Case is adamant in his claim about the difference between different > catalysts, and even different batches of the same catalyst. It would be > unwise to enter into the wandering search for a catalyst that he has spent > so much time already executing. So What? When you get self-sustaining heat, and output,then you can be adamant about what you can, or cannot, use or try. Or you can Fart Around until the cows come home, and crap on your porch. :-) Regards, Frederick > > > Ed Wall > New Energy Research Laboratory > Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 > ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com > (603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 08:33:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09755; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:32:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:32:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <028101bef55e$92d02cc0$24441d26 fjsparber> References: <026701bef53a$08c6b0e0$24441d26 fjsparber> <00ad01bef545$cbd476c0$89627dc7 computer> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:30:07 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Resent-Message-ID: <"3tRxa.0.LO2.xXfpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30033 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ed Wall >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 6:19 AM >Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? > >Ed Wall wrote: >> >> >> Ordinary steel is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking due to >> hydrogen attack (embrittlement). McKubre specifies either SS316L or >SS318. >> This is in line with what I have learned from other scientific sources. I >> experienced cracking with the stainless steel 'football' bottle that we >got >> from Case. It is probably SS304. SS that is not low-carbon is or that is >> not austenitic will suffer cracking at accelerated rates. This is >> aggrivated by the heating cycles employed. > >Ordinary steel has been used in High Pressure Steam Boilers for almost three >Centurys, >Hydrogen Embrittlement is NOT a Problem with Alkaline H2O or D2O. > >I have worked with boilers for over 30 years, and this the first time that >I've heard >that you have to retube one because of Hydrogen problems. :-) ***{Fred, the Case cell doesn't use H2O or D2O gas: it uses H2 or D2. Thus it involves issues that were not confronted by users of steam boilers during the prior three centuries. --Mitchell Jones}*** >> >> Case is adamant in his claim about the difference between different >> catalysts, and even different batches of the same catalyst. It would be >> unwise to enter into the wandering search for a catalyst that he has spent >> so much time already executing. > >So What? When you get self-sustaining heat, and output,then you can be >adamant about what you can, or cannot, use or try. Or you can Fart Around >until >the cows come home, and crap on your porch. :-) > >Regards, Frederick >> >> >> Ed Wall >> New Energy Research Laboratory >> Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 >> ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com >> (603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 >> >> >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 08:47:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15451; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:45:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:45:59 -0700 Message-ID: <029f01bef562$5ec7b8e0$24441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <026701bef53a$08c6b0e0$24441d26 fjsparber><00ad01bef545$cbd476c0$89627dc7@computer> Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:43:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"XOd8R.0.Gn3.tkfpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30034 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? M Jones wrote: > > ***{Fred, the Case cell doesn't use H2O or D2O gas: it uses H2 or D2. Thus > it involves issues that were not confronted by users of steam boilers > during the prior three centuries. --Mitchell Jones}*** > I know that Jones. As a matter of fact I proposed the Case approach, long before you ever heard of Les Case. I can back that up with records of communication with United Catalysts people, whom I've worked with on other items since the early 70s. FJS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:00:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12433; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:58:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:58:19 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990901142123.00f25b04 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:21:23 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WYj6d.0.A23.hogpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30035 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A At 09:27 AM 9/1/99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: >Either I'm a >raging paranoid lunatic with delusions of grandure, or I've just seen the >core idea behind the Sweet device and the Hans Coler device, and probably >the Tesla car, Hendershot device, and several others. With an intro like that, how can I possible resist....:) >Rather than using a short >dipole to connect to the toroidial inductor, we wind a simple loop >antenna. To first order at least, you'll get nothing from a loop antenna located outside a toroid UNLESS the loop passes through the center hole of the toroid. Are you hoping to catch the stray B that leaks out of real toroids? >Just add some capacitors to tune the >coils to the iron's resonance, and the thing will probably burst into >flames. Your enthusiam is infectious! Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:02:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA14339; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:02:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:02:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:06:30 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Hydrogen embrittlement In-Reply-To: <37CE8C71.7B26A3C9 bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZsUq43.0.zV3.Fsgpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30036 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NOTE: If anyone has interest in this and instruments to test for it, on a commercial basis, contact me off line. Hydrogen Embrittlement .... Hydrogen can dissolve in molten metals, aluminum is most famous for this... on lowering temp the H comes out of solution... forming tiny bubbles, similar to bubbles in your soda pop ... then the metal solidifies ... If the bubbles are still there then the metal, to a greater or lesser degree is "foamy". This effect of "bubbles-make-it-foamy-make-it-weaker-like-styrofoam" is a MECHANICAL effect. There are a number of ways to combat it. JHS On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > Ed Wall wrote: > > > Ordinary steel is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking due to > > hydrogen attack (embrittlement). > > > > This has always puzzled me. Does anyone know how hydrogen > embrittlement reduces the tensile strength of steel? One of my > first projects as an engineer was to determine why an overhead > conveyor chain in a poultry processing plant was breaking. An > independent lab determined that the fault was hydrogen > embrittlement during the plating process of the chain segments. > > Could it be a CF effect? > > Terry > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:05:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15773; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:05:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:05:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:09:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l Subject: LOOK AT YOUR MAIL ...RE: Vortex email problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kJ6LP3.0.Ms3.2vgpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30037 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: See notes, in text, below ... On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > Ed, _______________________________> > Your not the only one, <<< DEP DEP [Angel's Grandmother] You're not the only one, You are not the only one, The top line is how this came over to me originally. JH Schnurer _______________________________________________________________ I never got the original either. > > "Running the Case Cell Wet?" > > What could be happening is someone get's an original email from outside of > Vortex and when they reply to it they add Vortex to the reply to list. > > Bill > webriggs concentric.net > briggs XLNsystems.com > > > >Vo, > > >Am I the only one who gets the Re:subject messages quite often, and never > >receiving the subject message (like the following one from FS)? > > > >Ed Wall > >New Energy Research Laboratory > >Cold Fusion Technology, P.O. Box 2816, Concord, NH 03302-2816 > >ewall infinite-energy.com, http://www.infinite-energy.com > >(603) 226-4822 fax 240-5975 > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Frederick Sparber > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:12 AM > >Subject: Re: Running the Case Cell Wet? > > > >> To: Vortex > >> > > Blah, blah blah... > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:22:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24764; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Anyone know Oleg Jefimenko? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mT5kW2.0.c26.58hpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30038 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone have Dr. Jefimenko's Email addr? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:23:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25554; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uE3Ss.0.4F6.l8hpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30039 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Juergen Heinzerling wrote: > > However, in both of these devices the inventor has forgotten to inform us > > that a tank circuit (tuned circuit or resonator) is needed. In the Coler > > device, the natural atomic resonance of the iron bar magnets will not be > > the same as the resonance of the coils he used, and so the effect will be > > incredibly weak or nonexistant. > > I beg to differ - this device has in fact a tunable circuit made up of > two additional cylindrical coils, one of which slips into the other. > Also, there are two caps in the output lines and a whole lot of mutual > capacities in the topology used, so a tank circuit is present. Yes, but there is no specific tank circuit as such. The Coler device looks like an "initial discovery", rather than the final invention that Coler claims was running his house. It seems clear to me that the "final invention" would need a high-energy, high-Q tank circuit, not a parasitic resonator. > This brings us to the VTA, where the "programming" (is this related to > homoeopathic information storage?) of magnets is mostly considered as > the final secret to this device. The process of programming is > absolutely unclear, but if I remember correctly, Sweet used a modified > tv set for this purpose. I guess there are a couple of frequencies in > the 140 ... 180 kHz range that could be generated this way. If these materials have some sort of nuclear resonance (like proton precession frequency that water has at 2025 Hz), then these devices might be taking advantage of it. The Sweet device is odd, with its PROGRAMMABLE resonance frequency. UPDATE: I now see that if the phase relationship between the large b-field in the donut inductor and the large b-field around the loop antenna are at 90degrees, and are about equal in strength, it should cause the field within the donut to rotate at the operating frequency... and should force electrons/protons to flip at that frequency as the magnetic domains flip! A nuclear/magnetic vortex. To make a closed-loop self-acting device, we might want to drive the donut coil with the voltage across the tank capacitor, while driving the perimeter coil with the current in series with the tank circuit. > I don't say this makes any sense at all, but all three devices seem to > indicate that something weird takes place in this range of frequencies. Yes. If they are not just stories and hoaxes, then ANYONE should be able to penetrate their secrets if they just look at them the right way. Me, I stayed up way too late and started having semi-hallucinations. I've heard that Immanual Swedenborg used a similar technique to trigger religious states! I can SEE the thing working in my mind. This of course doesn't mean it will work in the real world. However, if such a device is possible, then the images I'm seeing include Tesla resonance antennas, Bearden concepts, scalar/torsion concepts, Keely stuff, as well as a variety of electromagnetic free-energy device claims (Maybe the Methertina device is the electrostatic equivalent, while this thing the magnetic version?) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:31:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32669; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:29:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:29:45 -0700 Message-ID: <37CEB3BF.8E6AA15B ro.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:28:32 -0500 From: "Patrick V. Reavis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. References: <3.0.1.32.19990901142123.00f25b04 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X83QP3.0.M-7.9Ghpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30041 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > At 09:27 AM 9/1/99 -0700, William Beaty wrote: > > >Either I'm a > >raging paranoid lunatic with delusions of grandure, or I've just seen the > >core idea behind the Sweet device and the Hans Coler device, and probably > >the Tesla car, Hendershot device, and several others. > >Rather than using a short > >dipole to connect to the toroidial inductor, we wind a simple loop > >antenna. > > To first order at least, you'll get nothing from a loop antenna located > outside a toroid UNLESS the loop passes through the center hole of the > toroid. Are you hoping to catch the stray B that leaks out of real toroids? > Scott, Would it make a difference if the loop antenna was still on the outer perimeter of the toroid, but underneath the core windings? -- Regards, Patrick V. Reavis http://ro.com/~preavis http://ro.com/~preavis/Quiz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:34:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30560; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:26:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:26:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"j8L5s2.0.NT7.qChpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30040 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Dave Dameron wrote: > >send the right frequency of signal to the toroid inductor, a huge signal > >will build up in the tuned circuit. This signal will violate conservation > >of energy. If you tap off some of this signal and use it to drive the > >toroid inductor, the whole device will go into runaway and probably smoke > >itself. > > > >Note: this has NOT BEEN TESTED. > > > No I haven't tried this exactly, but haven't seen anything unusual yet. But > I have only limited frequency sources (60Hz, audio, 60kHz, low MHz), and > probably don't know what I'm doing with the (unknown) core characteristics. If you drive a toroid at 60Hz, wrap a coil around its perimeter (not through the hole), and attach this coil to a high-Q 60Hz tuned circuit, do you see any voltage appear on the tuned circuit? Conventional physics says that there should be none at all unless the toroid winding acts like a 1-turn coil as well as a toroidial inductor (if the wire is wound beginning at one spot, wrapping around the donut many times, then ending at the same spot, we'v accidentally created a 1-turn coil as well as a high-value inductor.) > I have put one turn loops on a core before winding the toroid. Do you think > a "tape wound" core would be useful, as a multi-turn coil/magnetic core. > Tim V., if I remember OK, posted something a while back about his tests of > currents through an electromagnet core. I think the chemistry of the magnetic material will be the critical thing (although laminations would be needed to reduce inductive heating, especially if we run the thing at higher than 60Hz). Bearden/Sweet made much of using Barium Ferrite and no other substitute. But then Coler used steel (alnico?) magnets, so perhaps he was finding a different resonance because the material was different. Perhaps quartz or wax would even work if the right freq was located. Maybe a water-filled plastic donut wrapped with wire and driven at the water proton precession frequency (close to 2KHz) would do something interesting. In other words, replace the iron core with water. I've never heard of anyone driving water with fiercely strong magnetism at the proton frequency. Maybe it will explode after the resonance builds high enough? Or, perhaps the stories about the Keely 21KHz frequency water-explosions are a misdirection, and the actual frequency is 2.1KHz. Heh! I can here Keely's voice from the past: "Those who understand will immediately see that the 21KHz has the decimal in the wrong spot." Like the misdirection they used when publishing the chemical forumula in the first article about High Temperature Copper-oxide superconductors back around 1986. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 10:55:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08968; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:48:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:48:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990902135220.012666c0 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:52:20 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Energy Sucking Antennas/ Robert In-Reply-To: <19990902135302.56319.qmail hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ibzz-.0.zB2.hXhpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30042 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:53 AM 9/2/1999 PDT, Peter Aldo wrote: >Thanks for the info, Robert. I have a few questions about your diagram I was >hoping you could answer. I'm not sure I understand what the choke is for >exactly. Do you mean it can be used instead of a capacitor? Also, is that a >ground after the choke (in between the choke and rectifier)? Wouldn't that >ground short circuit the whole thing ? Before the current reached the >batteries? Thanks, Pete The problems of ASCII diagrams. Right after the choke coil is a high voltage capacitor, with the other side connected to ground. The rectifier (or full wave bridge) is to prevent LC resonance and to keep the battery from discharging through the anten na when the rain starts. ;-) The advantage of a full wave bridge is that you can draw power from both positive and negative space charges. It is rare for the voltage to change polarity, except right before a lightning strike, so you won't get much extra power. But obviously drawing that reverse potential off the antenna can be a good thing. (In effect you want your antenna to serve as a lighting rod. Most people think that the purpose of a lighting rod is to get hit by lightning. Not true. The inten t is to create a bubble of uncharged air so the lighting will strike elsewhere. Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 12:10:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01822; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:09:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:09:23 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: Anyone know Oleg Jefimenko? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:13:08 -0400 Message-ID: <01bef577$30c51bd0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"7vFpd3.0.OS.Zjipt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30043 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bill B. asked: > >Anyone have Dr. Jefimenko's Email addr? - It is: odjef wvnvms.wvnet.edu - >From his web page at: http://www.as.wvu.edu/coll03/phys/www/jefimenk.htm - Oleg D. Jefimenko Professor Emeritus West Virginia University Department of Physics P. O. Box 6315 Morgantown, WV 26506-6315 Tel: (304) 293-3498 Fax: (304) 293-5732 - Regards, George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 13:06:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25900; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:05:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:05:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <37CE8C71.7B26A3C9 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:43:43 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Hydrogen embrittlement Resent-Message-ID: <"lVpkT.0.WK6.-Xjpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30044 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > NOTE: > > If anyone has interest in this and instruments to test for it, on >a commercial basis, contact me off line. > > Hydrogen Embrittlement .... Hydrogen can dissolve in molten >metals, aluminum is most famous for this... on lowering temp the H comes >out of solution... forming tiny bubbles, similar to bubbles in your soda >pop ... then the metal solidifies ... > If the bubbles are still there then the metal, to a greater or >lesser degree is "foamy". This effect of >"bubbles-make-it-foamy-make-it-weaker-like-styrofoam" is a MECHANICAL >effect. > There are a number of ways to combat it. > > JHS ***{I think that the hydrogen which Terry was talking about must have entered the metal during electroplating, when the chain was functioning as a cathode, and thus might also have been undergoing hydrogen loading. In such a case, the hydrogen would not have formed discrete bubbles. In spite of that, it apparently leads to embrittlement. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > >> Ed Wall wrote: >> >> > Ordinary steel is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking due to >> > hydrogen attack (embrittlement). >> >> >> >> This has always puzzled me. Does anyone know how hydrogen >> embrittlement reduces the tensile strength of steel? One of my >> first projects as an engineer was to determine why an overhead >> conveyor chain in a poultry processing plant was breaking. An >> independent lab determined that the fault was hydrogen >> embrittlement during the plating process of the chain segments. >> >> Could it be a CF effect? >> >> Terry >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 13:07:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA25925; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:05:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:05:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <029f01bef562$5ec7b8e0$24441d26 fjsparber> References: <026701bef53a$08c6b0e0$24441d26 fjsparber><00ad01bef545$cbd476c0$89627dc7@ computer> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:02:57 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Resent-Message-ID: <"1OsG-2.0._K6.0Yjpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30045 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mitchell Jones >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:30 AM >Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? > >M Jones wrote: >> >> ***{Fred, the Case cell doesn't use H2O or D2O gas: it uses H2 or D2. Thus >> it involves issues that were not confronted by users of steam boilers >> during the prior three centuries. --Mitchell Jones}*** >> > > I know that Jones. As a matter of fact I proposed the Case approach, long >before you >ever heard of Les Case. I can back that up with records of communication >with >United Catalysts people, whom I've worked with on other items since the >early 70s. > >FJS ***{My, my, do I detect a wee bit of hostility here? Tsk, tsk. Anyway, if you were in fact aware that the case cell uses H2 or D2 rather than H2O or D2O, then of what possible relevance is the boiler experience of the past three centuries, where the matter of hydrogen embrittlement is concerned? For the record: this is a serious question, *not* an attempt to irritate you. --MJ}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 15:27:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05211; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990902181636.0079f100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:16:36 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: The Future of Voice Input Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gs4ue3.0.LH1.Cblpt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30046 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a fun bit of futurology Mitchell Jones writes: My first reaction to the above statement was that voice input would be limited to areas where computers could be controlled via relatively simple commands. Oh, well . . . actually, voice input is generally used for entering text. Commands are entered with a mouse and the arrow keys. Voice input works best for continuous, meaningful English sentences in context. It does not handle single words well, and it does not work with abbreviations. There are voice input macros to control the computer. They are awkward and slow, although they are a boon for paraplegics and other severely disabled people. The first case I considered was that of trying to verbally command the computer to "Delete the text from acty on page 246 to daily record on page 255." Well, you do that today by moving a mouse for the most part. You don't type much. With voice input the move the cursor to one box, and instead of typing 246, you say it. That is handy for entering columns of numbers. I have used it to transcribe handwritten data into a spreadsheet. Thus it would be far easier to simply highlight the text to be deleted, and then hit the delete key. Yes that is how you do it with voice input too. There are voice macros to move a virtual mouse. I think they are mainly useful for seriously disabled people. In that case, you would simply say: "Highlight the text from acty on pg. 246 to daily record on pg. 255. . ." That task sounds like it would require a program which understands free-form English. It would be many orders of magnitude more complicated than today's programs, which merely transcribe phonemes into words, and words into spelling. Voice input programs are beginning to acquire a primitive ability to recognize context, but they are light years away from real understanding, and they do not use many simple tricks that a first-year human student study a foreign language would know instinctively. Just now, for example, the program mistook the word "acquire" as "a choir." When an English native speaker hears "beginning to ____" he fills in the blank and anticipates a verb, not a choral group. Please note I use the terms "ability" and "real understanding" here in a pragmatic or results-oriented sense. If the machine does what you order it to do, no matter how you express yourself, even when you use convoluted English which another human being has difficulty following, then for all intents and purposes the machine understands you. Whether it actually thinks or not is a philosophical question beyond the scope of this discussion. Actually, I think it is like arguing about whether a chess playing machine actually plays chess, or whether insects and birds in coitus feel love for one another. For the opposite point of view, see J. Weizenbaum's admirable little book, "Computer Power and Human Reason," (Freeman, 1976). I admire Weizenbaum, so far I have been right and he has been wrong. See his chapter on voice input. His predictions about it were shot through by unwarranted pessimism, fear of the unknown, and ignorance of basic business and marketing. Getting back the idea of "Highlight the text from acty . . ." (How would you pronounce acty? Abbreviations have no place in voice input.) You could enter sentence-like commands the way you can type them in some database languages, with rigorously defined syntax. In the 1980s database programs often featured English-like inquiries and commands, which were typed out in pseudo-sentences. I never saw anyone use that feature. The only times I use databases, I stick to fill-in-the-form input. If I want to write statements I'll use Pascal. I will have to think about this for awhile before I will know whether I believe it, but it is very interesting. You cannot "think" about this to reach an evaluation. You have to use the program. Then you have to be charitable and imagine how it will work in five or ten years. It is now frustrating, slow, and not worth the effort for most people. Watching someone use voice input today is like watching an expert do a cold fusion experiment. A naive observer will see a machine that breaks more often than it works. It seems unpromising. You have to know how difficult the problem is and how much progress has been made. A linguist or a programmer will be impressed by voice input; a chemist will be astounded by a cold fusion experiment. The *potential* is exciting. If you are optimistic and you have a vivid imagination, you can envision how the thing will work if the problems can be fixed. Using the early word processors on computers like the Cromemco, the Northstar, or the Trash-80 was an adventure, not a practical way to write a document. The equipment cost much more than a correcting Selectric typewriter. It was slow, the printers did not work, and the text was usually lost by the audio tape recorders and other improbable "write only" data storage techniques. It was like driving an automobile coast-to-coast across the U.S. in 1906. The US Army sent an automobile convoy coast-to-coast partly to get operational experience with automobiles, and partly as a publicity stunt. As I recall it took two months. At that time you could cross the country by rail in four days at a moderate cost, in comfort and safety. I guess I should have said that voice input will reduce the use of the keyboard. Every computer will come with a keyboard, but it will be relegated to occasional use, like the floppy disk today. This is getting far off-topic, but I predict than when computers learn to understand spoken human language, then we will finally do away with keyboards and mice. The ideal input device would read your mind directly. It would interpret brain waves. Recently, primitive experiments in this direction have been done with rats. I believe they implant a probe in the brain. I do not recall the details, but the device measures events in the brain that occur when the rat is going through some procedure to acquire food -- pressing a bar or whatever. Eventually, the rat learns to trigger the food vending machine by changing its mental state. Someday, this research may lead to machines that can sense and be controlled by human mental states. To be specific, machines might sense brain waves or the nerve stimulation triggered by subvocalization. When you talk to yourself or read, you move your lips and other speech organs very slightly. I think it is likely that all language-based thinking involves stimulating these organs. I don't know much about the brain, but I assume this represents a fairly limited repertoire of nerve activities. In other words, as your thoughts coalesce, they may be funneled through one small area of the brain that controls vocalization and subvocalization. (People who suffer from aphasia literally cannot think -- that's what one patient told me when she recovered partially. She said it was like being in a dream.) I doubt that machines will ever freely roam about your brain, decoding any thought or memory. Decoding subvocalization may be a simpler task. Thinking in other modes, such as mathematical reasoning or graphic design, probably does not stimulate speech organs, and the machines might be blind to these other modes. Or perhaps you will imagine you are moving a mouse or a paintbrush, and the machine will do it for you. I suppose hardwired brain probes will not be used in people except in extreme conditions, with paraplegic patients. Ordinary folks will insist on noninvasive techniques. Then again, you never know . . . People nowadays blithely poke pins through their tongues and various other unspeakable body parts. They do acupuncture. They undergo torturous plastic surgery for frivolous reasons. Perhaps in the distant future people will not object to having thin wires implanted permanently in their brains. From our point of view, it will be difficult to know whether the people are controlling the machines or vice versa. A person from ancient times looking at an American city today might get the impression that automobiles control our lives. He might think we worship automobiles. He would not be far wrong. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 16:04:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29835; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:02:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:02:43 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Anyone know Oleg Jefimenko? Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:02:09 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA29814 Resent-Message-ID: <"hsRKu3.0.5I7.J8mpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30047 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote: > >Anyone have Dr. Jefimenko's Email addr? odjef wvnvms.wvnet.edu (From his web page at: http://www.as.wvu.edu/coll03/phys/www/jefimenk.htm [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 17:04:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01427; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:02:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:45:30 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id QAA09993 Resent-Message-ID: <"zq09F1.0.8M.F0npt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30048 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:26:09 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote: [snip] >If you drive a toroid at 60Hz, wrap a coil around its perimeter (not >through the hole), and attach this coil to a high-Q 60Hz tuned circuit, do >you see any voltage appear on the tuned circuit? Conventional physics >says that there should be none at all unless the toroid winding acts like >a 1-turn coil as well as a toroidial inductor (if the wire is wound >beginning at one spot, wrapping around the donut many times, then ending >at the same spot, we'v accidentally created a 1-turn coil as well as a >high-value inductor.) [snip] Another possibility, might be to place the loop antenna tangential to the minor radius of the toroid, such that its axis is perpendicular to that of the major axis of the toroid (on the outside). Reasoning: The A field wraps around the toroid, passing through the centre hole (I think), which is why it sweeps electrons along with it when a loop passes through the centre hole. Any *other symmetrical* loop arrangement results in "sweeping" forces cancelling one another out, so to produce a result, one would need an asymmetrical setup (see above). You could also try a rectangular loop, with one short curved side "wrapping" partially around the toroid (parallel to the toroid windings), and the other short side being far removed from the toroid (so that the return path is where the A field is weaker). BTW I still expect this to work like a normal transformer, only not as well :(. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 19:07:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA12958; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:05:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:05:10 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:09:31 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: United Cat....Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JvIvu2.0.OA3.Mpopt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30049 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., How does one get in touch with United Catalyst ... and is there a PO Contactct? Thanks, ohn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 19:36:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22952; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:35:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:35:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bef5bd$167f0600$df8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: United Catalysts Inc. UCI produces catalysts, adsorbents and additives for indu Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:33:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF582.5F85A420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"E8L8l.0.Yc5.ZFppt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30050 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF582.5F85A420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does this answer your question, John? http://www.unitedcatalysts.com/unit_cat_usa/default.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF582.5F85A420 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="United Catalysts Inc. UCI produces catalysts, adsorbents and additives for industrial and consumer markets..url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="United Catalysts Inc. UCI produces catalysts, adsorbents and additives for industrial and consumer markets..url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.unitedcatalysts.com/unit_cat_usa/default.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.unitedcatalysts.com/unit_cat_usa/default.htm Modified=80B536E4BCF5BE01BF ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF582.5F85A420-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 19:55:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28978; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:55:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:55:04 -0700 Message-ID: <002501bef5bf$dab7f480$df8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Running The Case Cell Wet? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:52:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"sma1Q.0.i47.7Yppt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30051 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW, A mix of K2CO3 & D2O in a 1.0 inch Schedule 80 Steel Pipe ran at 500 deg K (440 deg F at ~375 PSIG) will probably do as well or better than Case's Pd-Activated Carbon experiments. Operated as a Heat Pipe this approach gives the advantage of easy calorimetry, also. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 22:42:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13408; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:41:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:41:32 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tom Valone/PTO Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:40:58 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19990902063426.19703.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990902063426.19703.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA13375 Resent-Message-ID: <"x_syD3.0.KH3.B-rpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30052 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:34:26 -0700 (PDT), ron kita wrote: >One of the champions of the "new/free" energy movement, Tom Valone, was >ousted from his postion at the patent office. I have been wondering how long he would last. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 2 22:58:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18650; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:56:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:56:36 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Hydrogen embrittlement Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:56:02 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <37CE8C71.7B26A3C9 bellsouth.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA18607 Resent-Message-ID: <"RBBRL.0.KZ4.KCspt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30053 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:43:43 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: [snip] >***{I think that the hydrogen which Terry was talking about must have >entered the metal during electroplating, when the chain was functioning as >a cathode, and thus might also have been undergoing hydrogen loading. In >such a case, the hydrogen would not have formed discrete bubbles. In spite >of that, it apparently leads to embrittlement. --Mitchell Jones}*** [snip] I have always assumed, that it causes the iron to expand and crack, just as happens with many Pd electrodes. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 06:00:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13194; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:57:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:57:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37CFC628.B7285100 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 08:59:20 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen embrittlement References: <37CE8C71.7B26A3C9 bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"191113.0.-D3.MNypt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30054 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:43:43 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: > [snip] > >***{I think that the hydrogen which Terry was talking about must have > >entered the metal during electroplating, when the chain was functioning as > >a cathode, and thus might also have been undergoing hydrogen loading. In > >such a case, the hydrogen would not have formed discrete bubbles. In spite > >of that, it apparently leads to embrittlement. --Mitchell Jones}*** > [snip] That's right, Mitchell. The chain was designed for 15,000 pounds tension. The manufacturer tried to save a buck with a new plating company but those segments failed between 7,500 and 5,000 pounds. > I have always assumed, that it causes the iron to expand and crack, just > as happens with many Pd electrodes. So, this would be a purely mechanical cause. Ok. But, it would be interesting to see if there was any He in those failed links. ;-) > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 07:28:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA01177; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:26:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:26:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990902181636.0079f100 pop.mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:24:12 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: The Future of Voice Input Resent-Message-ID: <"79Tg73.0.JI.zfzpt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30055 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >In a fun bit of futurology Mitchell Jones writes: [snip] > > > I will have to think about this for awhile before I will know > whether I believe it, but it is very interesting. > >You cannot "think" about this to reach an evaluation. You have to use the >program. Then you have to be charitable and imagine how it will work in >five or ten years. ***{Which would seem to mean that you can't "use the program" to reach an evaluation. You have to think about it. :-) Seriously: it depends on what you are trying to determine. In my case, I am willing to simply assume that the speech recognition aspect will be taken care of by continued improvement in the technology. The doubts that I have relate to whether it would be desirable to replace hand movements with speech, even if the computer "understood" speech as well as a person. For example, if I want to whittle, I pick up a piece of wood, take out my pocket knife, and start slicing off whits. If I want to do the same thing via a compliant computer that "understands" my speech and has the appropriate output devices--i.e., mechanical hands, access to a pocket knife, mechanical eyeballs, etc.--why would I bother? It would be easier for me to do the whittling myself than to tell the computer how to do it. The generalized point I am focused on, in other words, is the fact that some tasks are simply easier to do oneself than to delegate to others, because it takes less effort to do them than to tell others to do them. I strongly suspect that the mouse and keyboard are going to be around for awhile, even after the kinks are out of speech recognition software. The reason: our hands are better suited to certain tasks than are our vocal cords. If, in the very long run, this turns out to not be the case, then we are all going to wind up as cyborgs--not a very desirable prospect, in my opinion, though a better status than worm bait. --Mitchell Jones}*** It is now frustrating, slow, and not worth the effort >for most people. Watching someone use voice input today is like watching an >expert do a cold fusion experiment. A naive observer will see a machine >that breaks more often than it works. It seems unpromising. You have to >know how difficult the problem is and how much progress has been made. A >linguist or a programmer will be impressed by voice input; a chemist will >be astounded by a cold fusion experiment. > >The *potential* is exciting. If you are optimistic and you have a vivid >imagination, you can envision how the thing will work if the problems can >be fixed. Using the early word processors on computers like the Cromemco, >the Northstar, or the Trash-80 was an adventure, not a practical way to >write a document. The equipment cost much more than a correcting Selectric >typewriter. It was slow, the printers did not work, and the text was >usually lost by the audio tape recorders and other improbable "write only" >data storage techniques. It was like driving an automobile coast-to-coast >across the U.S. in 1906. The US Army sent an automobile convoy >coast-to-coast partly to get operational experience with automobiles, and >partly as a publicity stunt. As I recall it took two months. At that time >you could cross the country by rail in four days at a moderate cost, in >comfort and safety. > >I guess I should have said that voice input will reduce the use of the >keyboard. Every computer will come with a keyboard, but it will be >relegated to occasional use, like the floppy disk today. > >This is getting far off-topic, but I predict than when computers learn to >understand spoken human language, then we will finally do away with >keyboards and mice. The ideal input device would read your mind directly. >It would interpret brain waves. ***{Yup. I *knew* that was where you were headed! Remove the brain from the body, place it in a glass dewar, attach some electrodes, stick the thing inside a robot, and presto, we have Cyberjed! Well, maybe so, but I find it a less than fully attractive prospect. Frankly, given that alternative, I think I will opt for cryonic suspension--freeze my body until it is possible to restore it to its condition when I was 20 years old--and then wake me up! I'll leave clanking around in a metal body to others, if I can. --Mitchell Jones}*** Recently, primitive experiments in this >direction have been done with rats. I believe they implant a probe in the >brain. I do not recall the details, but the device measures events in the >brain that occur when the rat is going through some procedure to acquire >food -- pressing a bar or whatever. Eventually, the rat learns to trigger >the food vending machine by changing its mental state. Someday, this >research may lead to machines that can sense and be controlled by human >mental states. To be specific, machines might sense brain waves or the >nerve stimulation triggered by subvocalization. When you talk to yourself >or read, you move your lips and other speech organs very slightly. I think >it is likely that all language-based thinking involves stimulating these >organs. I don't know much about the brain, but I assume this represents a >fairly limited repertoire of nerve activities. In other words, as your >thoughts coalesce, they may be funneled through one small area of the brain >that controls vocalization and subvocalization. (People who suffer from >aphasia literally cannot think -- that's what one patient told me when she >recovered partially. She said it was like being in a dream.) I doubt that >machines will ever freely roam about your brain, decoding any thought or >memory. Decoding subvocalization may be a simpler task. Thinking in other >modes, such as mathematical reasoning or graphic design, probably does not >stimulate speech organs, and the machines might be blind to these other >modes. Or perhaps you will imagine you are moving a mouse or a paintbrush, >and the machine will do it for you. > >I suppose hardwired brain probes will not be used in people except in >extreme conditions, with paraplegic patients. Ordinary folks will insist on >noninvasive techniques. Then again, you never know . . . People nowadays >blithely poke pins through their tongues and various other unspeakable body >parts. They do acupuncture. They undergo torturous plastic surgery for >frivolous reasons. Perhaps in the distant future people will not object to >having thin wires implanted permanently in their brains. >view, it will be difficult to know whether the people are controlling the >machines or vice versa. A person from ancient times looking at an American >city today might get the impression that automobiles control our lives. He >might think we worship automobiles. He would not be far wrong. ***{"Americans" worship social expediency, not the automobile. They are willing to do, say, or believe in literally anything, including mass murder (Waco), or even their own enslavement (the "New World Order"), if it will assist them in fitting in. As a result, they are no better than the "good" Germans who, under Hitler, pretended that the Holocaust wasn't happening, or the "good" Catholics who condoned the Inquisition, or the "good" Arabs who, today, condone the sexual mutilation and enslavement of women. God, what craven, crawling, loathsome creatures they are! (Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > >- Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 08:24:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19401; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:19:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:19:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:24:04 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Chain??? What chain ???Re: Hydrogen embrittlement In-Reply-To: <37CFC628.B7285100 bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ip74a3.0.3l4.CS-pt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30056 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What chain? J On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:43:43 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: > > [snip] > > >***{I think that the hydrogen which Terry was talking about must have > > >entered the metal during electroplating, when the chain was functioning as > > >a cathode, and thus might also have been undergoing hydrogen loading. In > > >such a case, the hydrogen would not have formed discrete bubbles. In spite > > >of that, it apparently leads to embrittlement. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > [snip] > > That's right, Mitchell. The chain was designed for 15,000 pounds > tension. The manufacturer tried to save a buck with a new > plating company but those segments failed between 7,500 and 5,000 > pounds. > > > I have always assumed, that it causes the iron to expand and crack, just > > as happens with many Pd electrodes. > > So, this would be a purely mechanical cause. Ok. But, it would > be interesting to see if there was any He in those failed links. > ;-) > > > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 09:26:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06954; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:20:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:20:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37CFF5BB.284661E8 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:22:19 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chain??? What chain ???Re: Hydrogen embrittlement References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"60GQ63.0.ai1.fL_pt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30057 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > > What chain? Overhead conveyor chain for poultry processing plant. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 11:47:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27713; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:45:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:45:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:50:19 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chain??? What chain ???Re: Hydrogen chickens ??embrittlement In-Reply-To: <37CFF5BB.284661E8 bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Ptm7i2.0.sm6.ZT1qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30058 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Where did do the poulty and Hydr. Embr. get glued together?? On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > John Schnurer wrote: > > > > What chain? > > Overhead conveyor chain for poultry processing plant. > > Terry > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 12:04:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA00819; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:00:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:00:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37D01B1A.552B7607 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:01:46 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chain??? What chain ???Re: Hydrogen chickens ??embrittlement References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LAchh.0.jC.Bh1qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30059 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > > Where did do the poulty and Hydr. Embr. get glued together?? > > At the hock. :-) In 1975 I was asked to investigate why the new chain broke so often. We found it was hydrogen embrittlement due to the plating process. I was speculating that CF caused the chain failure. Terry > > On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > > > John Schnurer wrote: > > > > > > What chain? > > > > Overhead conveyor chain for poultry processing plant. > > > > Terry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 12:10:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA03896; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:08:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:08:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:06:00 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: For John Schnurer Resent-Message-ID: <"y5IPu2.0.oy.9p1qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30060 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This thread started when Ed Wall wrote: > > Ordinary steel is quite susceptible to stress corrosion cracking due to > > hydrogen attack (embrittlement). Next, Terry wrote: > This has always puzzled me. Does anyone know how hydrogen > embrittlement reduces the tensile strength of steel? One of my > first projects as an engineer was to determine why an overhead > conveyor chain in a poultry processing plant was breaking. An > independent lab determined that the fault was hydrogen > embrittlement during the plating process of the chain segments. > > Could it be a CF effect? > > Terry At which point you said: NOTE: If anyone has interest in this and instruments to test for it, on a commercial basis, contact me off line. Hydrogen Embrittlement .... Hydrogen can dissolve in molten metals, aluminum is most famous for this... on lowering temp the H comes out of solution... forming tiny bubbles, similar to bubbles in your soda pop ... then the metal solidifies ... If the bubbles are still there then the metal, to a greater or lesser degree is "foamy". This effect of "bubbles-make-it-foamy-make-it-weaker-like-styrofoam" is a MECHANICAL effect. There are a number of ways to combat it. JHS Next, I said: ***{I think that the hydrogen which Terry was talking about must have entered the metal during electroplating, when the chain was functioning as a cathode, and thus might also have been undergoing hydrogen loading. In such a case, the hydrogen would not have formed discrete bubbles. In spite of that, it apparently leads to embrittlement. --Mitchell Jones}*** Terry then said: That's right, Mitchell. The chain was designed for 15,000 pounds tension. The manufacturer tried to save a buck with a new plating company but those segments failed between 7,500 and 5,000 pounds. Then Robin said: > I have always assumed, that it causes the iron to expand and crack, just > as happens with many Pd electrodes. Then Terry said: So, this would be a purely mechanical cause. Ok. But, it would be interesting to see if there was any He in those failed links. ;-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 12:19:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07455; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:16:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:16:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:20:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chain??? What chain ???Re: Hydrogen chickens ??embrittlement In-Reply-To: <37D01B1A.552B7607 bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oW2lj3.0.Pq1.Lw1qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30061 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In most cases the "classical" hydrogen embrittlement happens as the metal is cast. One can, to a degree, eliminate or reduce it by: 1] making sure the metal is gas free, ie., if aluminum you can bubble nitrogen through it as a hydrogen "scrubbing" agent at moderate temperatures... read, above melting point, but no hotter than needed to treat the melt. 2] chilling the metal REALLY REALLY FAST so the gas does not have time to come out of solution very much. Anyone interested in commercial methods to chill metals, aluminum for instance, VERY quickly, contact me off line. JHS On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > John Schnurer wrote: > > > > Where did do the poulty and Hydr. Embr. get glued together?? > > > > > > At the hock. :-) > > In 1975 I was asked to investigate why the new chain broke so > often. We found it was hydrogen embrittlement due to the plating > process. I was speculating that CF caused the chain failure. > > Terry > > > > > On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > > > > > John Schnurer wrote: > > > > > > > > What chain? > > > > > > Overhead conveyor chain for poultry processing plant. > > > > > > Terry > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 12:20:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07529; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:16:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:16:56 -0700 Message-ID: <37D02056.B12EDCF ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:24:06 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" , "Eugene F. Mallove" , "Richard L. Garvin" Subject: Garvin responds, sort of Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bZB9C3.0.Ur1.dw1qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30062 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Sept 3, 1999 Vortex, In the 27 August, '99 issue of Science, vol. 285 pg 1357, Richard L. Garvin (rig watson.ibm.com) responded, in 'Letters to Science's Compass, to a letter sent by Eugene Mallove to Compass (June 18th). In his letter, he seems to continue to ignore mounting CF data and stick to his original skeptical position as 'Gene asserted. Rather then spending the time for actual analysis, Garvin in his "In the interest of informing your readers", refers to the bet made by Mallove and Merriman on how soon a working product will appear on the market (by July, 1996). Also he quotes a 1993 testimony by Mallove of a heating unit prediction. I see these references made by Garvin as very petty and he demeans himself. Science does not progress by bets and predictions made in the heat of optimism and high faith. He should know this, being a scientist -- retired. Perhaps he is too comfortable to stir --- to look into data. Unfortunate. -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 12:45:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16867; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:43:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:43:09 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <37D026AF.7EAD ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:51:11 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Garvin responds, sort of References: <37D02056.B12EDCF ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"husem.0.T74.DJ2qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30063 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept 3, 1999 Vortex, E-mail correction: it should be . -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 13:35:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05327; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:34:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:34:00 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Valhalla Scientific 2101 Digital Power Analyzer Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:37:24 -0400 Message-ID: <01bef64c$212b8440$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"V1gt_2.0.5J1.u23qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30064 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I noticed this wideband digital power analyzer in an Ebay auction. I was outbid at the last second, as usual with Ebay, but the winning bidder was kind enough to pass on the fact that the seller, Cliff Chapman at US Instrument Services (800) 870-0787 www.us-instrument.com, had 2 additional used units that he was willing to sell for the final auction price of $331. I just received one of them, but have not yet tested it. This unit, which lists for about $1000 has a bandwidth of 50 KHz and measures both AC and noisy DC true RMS power. A description can be found at: - http://www.millennianet.com/valhalla/v2100.htm - A good tutorial on power measurement can also be found on this site. - No, I don't get a commission, but this seemed like relevant information for this list. - George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 13:36:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06502; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:34:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:34:58 -0700 Message-ID: <007701bef64c$7f3ffd40$214eccd1 default> From: "Mike Carrell" To: Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Forbidden Archeology Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:39:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"B4zb42.0.Sb1.o33qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30065 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mike Carrell writes: > > I suggest Mitchell and Jed suspend judgement until my review > appears. I said briefly that the thrust of my review is not to > defend the thesis of Forbidden Archeology but to review the > establishment response to the data. In many respects the book is > an essay on epistemology and the asymmetrical treatment of weak > observations which support the existing paradigm and strong > observations which dissent from it. > >That sounds interesting. When I say I do not mind flaky topics in I.E., I >am sincere. I would skip most of them if I were the editor, but they do not >bother me. I find it very difficult to believe there are "strong >observations" of "anatomically modern humans tens of millions of years >ago." I do not buy the infamous double standard, "extraordinary claims >require bla, bla" but I would have to see a multiplicity of results before >believing it. (The paleontological equivalent of replication.) Perhaps this >is not a fair assumption, but I think Homo sapiens has to be Homo faber, >the tool maker. We have no other means of survival. Clams make shells, bees >make hives, and people make villages, tools, and pots, paintings, >sacrifices, and burial mounds. You would have to find man-made artifacts in >the strata. If that's what the author claims . . . wow! That's a tough >sell. Kind of like this stuff about ancient visits by extraterrestrials. I'll sketch a bit more. We **are** talking about Homo Faber. Specifically, it is the presence of worked flints and incised bones in strata which geological criteria place at tens of millions of years ago. There is an evidence problem, which is destroyed once the artifact is removed out of its context. Much of this work was done before photography or exhaustive site mapping as done in present digs. Sometimes a workman finds the item and brings it to the investigator. Sometimes it is in a mine, first found by miners, not "scientists" and therefore suspect. Etc. and etc. ad nauseum. So the integrity of the original observer as to context is important. Occasionally committees returned to sites. Sometimes several investigators have made similar finds in the same strata. With respect to the flints, some comments. Flint is a not-uncommon mineral, which can be flaked by pressure or striking near an edge. When it flakes, extremely sharp edges are created at the outer edge of the path of cleavage of the flint. With skill, points, cutting edges, scrapers, etc. can be created. These are useful for cutting up carcasses of slain animals, leaving cut marks on the bones. In classroom theory, flaking could be imagined as a result of a natural process, such as tumbling in a stream among other rocks, and incisions on bones the work of animals. This scenario can be used if the flint is reported from a geologically inconvenient stratum with an anomalous age. There were efforts to create objective criteria for evaluating a flint, whether of natural or artificial origin. The author's story is that after Darwin, the emphasis was on looking for a Missing Link. Previous work, which placed Homo Faber in very early contexts got ignored, ridiculed, and sunk into footnotes of footnotes, and finally forgotten. The authors did an audit trail and dug up the original papers, which are extensively quoted so that a modern reader can judge the quality of the earlier observation. They cite criticisms and present counter-arguments, etc. Some fairly recent experiments presented a chimp (or gorilla?) with a problem. A package was presented, wrapped with a strong cord, a tempting goodie inside. Also presented were flints and hammer stones. The chimp understood the function of a knife, and I guess was shown a chipped flint, but was never able to understand how to make a knife by chipping flint. This doesn't prove much, as the individual might have been a dolt and many humans might not have figured it out by themselves. An appendix of "less-reliable" artifacts is included, which sound like excerpts from van Danniken or Fortean Times. Miners have found mortars (hollowed stones used for grinding grains) embedded in deep strata. Also sections of tiled walls. Also a rectangular metal tube., all in places where they could not possibly have been. Also the print of a moccasin with sewing. All "impossible", all explained away with the ploys we are all familiar with. The authors do not assert Homo Sapiens exclusively. They consider that several intelligent hominids may have co-existed, and more than one Homo Faber. There is no pat "explanation" here, only a rent veil of assumptions over a yawning pit of mystery. There is the suggestion of rises and falls, not an orderly progression. The authors are open adherents of a Hindu sect, their work underwritten by Hindus interested in finding support for the Hindu world-view. This includes very long cycles of creation and destruction, and a great persistence of humanoids through time. It is in sharp contrast with the conventional Western view expressed in either the science of the last century or the theology of the last couple of millenia. The theology provides motivation for looking. The evidence speaks for itself. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 15:38:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10661; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:33:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:33:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bef664$7a366420$5e441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:30:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Nldca.0.Tc2.vo4qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30066 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here you go, Robin, I took your experiment involving holding a wet cloth in front of an Infrared Source to see if static charge was created seriously enough to do a quick experiment using the 1.25 KW infrared wall heater in our master bathroom. The heater is two insulator rods wrapped with resistance wire about 5/8 inches diameter x 12inches long with a half-circle reflector behind each element. Instead of the cloth, I happened to have on hand a polyimide printed circuit board 1.0 in. x 3.0 in. with with a pattern of interdigitated " fingers" of copper about 1/8 in. wide, with 1/8 in. spacing, with a wired PC board connector at each end. With a digital ohmmeter set on the 30 Megohm range the dry board read >30 megohms. Rinsed with tap water it read about 2.8 megohms. Held in front, facing the heater at a cherry-red heat it dropped in resistance and facing away it increased in resistance. The greatest change in facing or not facing the heater was when the heater was shut off and cooled to where no glow was visible. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 15:45:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15750; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:44:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:44:02 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:43:55 -1000 Subject: Superheavies: Hey - where's #115? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: "vortex-l" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909031843.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"IeqK3.0.-r3.oy4qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30067 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vo - I just read a report in some *magazine* (I think it was Pop. Sci.) that elements #118 and #117 have been achieved, and that they quickly broke down to #116 - but not too fast though, milliseconds I think, suggesting some degree of stability. No mention of the stability of #116 nor of #115. Element #115 features in the highly controversial claims of alleged former Area 51 engineer Robert Lazar, which involve some #115 acquired off-world for use in 'unconventional' aircraft propulsion. Does anyone know of any reports that #115 has been achieved? Is the 'island of stability' experimentally real? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 15:53:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA19683; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:52:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:52:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37D05179.6FAB6A6E bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:53:45 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Superheavies: Hey - where's #115? References: <199909031843.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"25FY01.0.Pp4.c45qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30068 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Vo - > > I just read a report in some *magazine* (I think it was Pop. Sci.) that > elements #118 and #117 have been achieved, and that they quickly broke down > to #116 - but not too fast though, milliseconds I think, suggesting some > degree of stability. No mention of the stability of #116 nor of #115. > Element #115 features in the highly controversial claims of alleged former > Area 51 engineer Robert Lazar, which involve some #115 acquired off-world > for use in 'unconventional' aircraft propulsion. > > Does anyone know of any reports that #115 has been achieved? Is the 'island > of stability' experimentally real? > Nope, still waiting for Unobtainium. Actually, for these elements, "milliseconds" *is* stable. :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 16:02:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA22772; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:01:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:01:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990903185252.0086c860 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:52:52 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Superheavies: Hey - where's #115? - Nuclear vorticies In-Reply-To: <199909031843.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UAKcB1.0.kZ5.ED5qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30069 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:43 PM 9/3/99 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Vo - > >I just read a report in some *magazine* (I think it was Pop. Sci.) that >elements #118 and #117 have been achieved, and that they quickly broke down >to #116 - but not too fast though, milliseconds I think, suggesting some >degree of stability. No mention of the stability of #116 nor of #115. >Element #115 features in the highly controversial claims of alleged former >Area 51 engineer Robert Lazar, which involve some #115 acquired off-world >for use in 'unconventional' aircraft propulsion. > >Does anyone know of any reports that #115 has been achieved? Is the 'island >of stability' experimentally real? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI This is a very complicated volume of the periodic chart, and more complicated. The next issue of the COLD FUSION TIMES will have two articles on some of these elements which are extremely interesting because although some of the ground states are unstable, the excited nuclear states are metastable -- for years or centuries. Consider the more well-known part of the periodic chart where the isotope tantalum 180 has a half-life of 8 hours, but its excited state has a half-life of 10 to the 15th years. Showing that this is relevant to vortex ;-)X these nuclei have incredibly high spin states (Table 1 in the next issue). Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 17:05:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09304; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:04:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:04:16 -0700 Message-ID: <002201bef671$286caa20$5e441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: WebElements periodic table of the elements Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:53:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF635.3E11B500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"7JVG11.0.IH2.086qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30070 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF635.3E11B500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For Rick, 115 is still out there. :-) http://www.shef.ac.uk/~chem/web-elements/ ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF635.3E11B500 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="WebElements periodic table of the elements.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="WebElements periodic table of the elements.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.shef.ac.uk/~chem/web-elements/ [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.shef.ac.uk/~chem/web-elements/ Modified=803482C56FF6BE011F ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF635.3E11B500-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 17:05:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09330; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:04:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:04:19 -0700 Message-ID: <002301bef671$29ab92c0$5e441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: 111-Xb-272 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:01:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEF636.69B09680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"IDWLl.0.iH2.286qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30071 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEF636.69B09680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Getting closer to 115. :-) http://www.dne.bnl.gov/CoN/nuc/X/Xb272.shtml ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEF636.69B09680 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="111-Xb-272.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="111-Xb-272.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.dne.bnl.gov/CoN/nuc/X/Xb272.shtml [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.dne.bnl.gov/CoN/nuc/X/Xb272.shtml Modified=60DB8FF870F6BE01E7 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEF636.69B09680-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 18:12:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA27591; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:11:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:11:34 -0700 Message-ID: <19990904011102.16292.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [216.3.0.163] From: "Peter Aldo" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy Sucking Antennas/ Robert Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:11:01 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Kf2Ae2.0.yk6.577qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30072 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > The problems of ASCII diagrams. Right after the choke coil is a high >voltage capacitor, with the other side connected to ground. The rectifier >(or full wave bridge) is to prevent LC resonance and to keep the battery >from discharging through the antenna when the rain starts. ;-) The >advantage of a full wave bridge is that you can draw power from both >positive and negative space charges. It is rare for the voltage to change >polarity, except right before a lightning strike, so you won't get much >extra power. But obviously drawing that reverse potential off the antenna >can be a good thing. (In effect you want your antenna to serve as a >lighting rod. Most people think that the purpose of a lighting rod is to >get hit by lightning. Not true. The intent is to create a bubble of >uncharged air so the lighting will strike elsewhere. > > Robert I. Eachus Thanks again, Robert. I still can't figure out what the choke is for in the first place, though. Why can't I just directly charge the capacitor? Are you familiar with Tesla's atmospheric energy collector. The patent used a large sheet of metal covered with a layer of insulation instead of an antenna. I'm trying to figure out if this would work better than a simple antenna. I'm confused as to what purpose the insulation serves on Telsa's collector. Any help would be appreciated. I really plan to try this, but I need to collect more info first. I already know where to get a huge roll of insulated cable for dirt cheap. Pete ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 19:19:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA11309; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:17:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:17:24 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Garvin responds, sort of Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:24:15 -0400 Message-ID: <19990904022415140.AAA257 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"6IMn-2.0.dm2.p48qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30073 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Aki wrote: >Rather then spending the time for actual analysis, Garvin in his "In the >interest of informing your readers", refers to the bet made by Mallove >and Merriman on how soon a working product will appear on the market (by >July, 1996). Also he quotes a 1993 testimony by Mallove of a heating >unit prediction. Actually, in retrospect, Garvin made a pretty safe bet, Aki. Anyone independently challenging the oil industry, automobile industry, coal industry, and nuclear power industry all at the same time was either: A) So incredibly naive as to not realize the number and kind of obstacles that would be placed before them. B) Just plain stupid. C) Brave and idealistic to the point of qualifying for sainthood. I place myself in category B. I now, of course, enjoy a wonderful, personal relationship with Elvis. I also hope that society will forgive my folly, and possibly even see fit to let me rejoin the workforce in some small, meaningless capacity. Sincerely, Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 19:29:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14719; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:29:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:29:04 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:28:31 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000501bef664$7a366420$5e441d26 fjsparber> In-Reply-To: <000501bef664$7a366420$5e441d26 fjsparber> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA14694 Resent-Message-ID: <"jqgnl1.0.rb3.mF8qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30074 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:30:54 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >With a digital ohmmeter set on the 30 Megohm range the dry board read >>30 megohms. Rinsed with tap water it read about 2.8 megohms. > >Held in front, facing the heater at a cherry-red heat it dropped in >resistance >and facing away it increased in resistance. The greatest change in facing or >not >facing the heater was when the heater was shut off and cooled to where > no glow was visible. :-) Interesting. What were the resistance values you measured, and how stable were the electrical connections (alligator clips have a habit of shifting around when things are moved, varying the contact resistance)? Do you get a change in resistance when you heat the board with a hot object? (Plastics often still contain monomers which may be exuded from the plastic on heating, producing a partially conducting surface layer?). I guess you could eliminate this possibility is two ways. 1) Pre-bake the board to remove monomers, and see if that makes a difference. 2) See if the resistance increases again rapidly if the board is grounded. (Your light leptons would probably flow to ground?). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 20:30:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA30849; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:29:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:29:21 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:36:12 -0400 Message-ID: <19990904033612968.AAA249 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"3ETrp2.0.xX7.G89qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30075 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: >Do you get a change in resistance when you heat the board with a hot >object? (Plastics often still contain monomers which may be exuded from >the plastic on heating, producing a partially conducting surface >layer?). > >I guess you could eliminate this possibility is two ways. >1) Pre-bake the board to remove monomers, and see if that makes a >difference. >2) See if the resistance increases again rapidly if the board is >grounded. (Your light leptons would probably flow to ground?). >[snip] > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk You can also try using a UV light source to cure the residual monomers in a lot of plastics. I saw a PBS special on the making of ultralight airplanes that used this technique. They used commercial grade PVC for the frame, and treated it with UV light. It also had the effect of strengthening the PVC to the point that they could drive a small truck over it without breaking it. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 22:33:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22912; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:32:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:32:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:32:37 -1000 Subject: Re: WebElements periodic table of the elements From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909040132.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"LTW8K2.0.wb5.wxAqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30076 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Frederick - > For Rick, > > 115 is still out there. :-) > > http://www.shef.ac.uk/~chem/web-elements/ I noticed that 114, 116, 118 are highlighted (elements actually created?) at that web site, but the odd numbered 113, 115, 117 are not. Is there any significance to that - are the odd numbers harder to get or less stable? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 22:58:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27870; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:57:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:57:58 -0700 Message-ID: <005b01bef6a2$9101c620$5e441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <000501bef664$7a366420$5e441d26 fjsparber> Subject: Re: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:55:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"4mVPD3.0.Fp6.bJBqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30077 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? Robin wrote: > On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:30:54 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: > [snip] > >With a digital ohmmeter set on the 30 Megohm range the dry board read > >>30 megohms. Rinsed with tap water it read about 2.8 megohms. > > > >Held in front, facing the heater at a cherry-red heat it dropped in > >resistance > >and facing away it increased in resistance. The greatest change in facing or > >not > >facing the heater was when the heater was shut off and cooled to where > > no glow was visible. :-) > > Interesting. What were the resistance values you measured, and how > stable were the electrical connections (alligator clips have a habit of > shifting around when things are moved, varying the contact resistance)? Early on the resistance was in the 4-5 Megohm range. A couple of hours after the experiment it was about 2-3 megohms and the experiment was repeatable near a 100 watt incandescent light bulb. (15% visble light output?) > > Do you get a change in resistance when you heat the board with a hot > object? (Plastics often still contain monomers which may be exuded from > the plastic on heating, producing a partially conducting surface > layer?). I didn't try that, but the Polyimide PC boards are made for high temperature dip soldering and operation. > > I guess you could eliminate this possibility is two ways. > 1) Pre-bake the board to remove monomers, and see if that makes a > difference. These boards were intended for use as a H2O2 sensor that I developed that used Ag-AgOx coated over the interdigitated design on the front and a vacuum deposited NiChrome film on the back that acts as a heater to "reset" the AgOx on the front to Ag (230 C). I got knocked down on a patent application by a similar approach for an O2 sensor used in the auto industry. Too expensive to fight the the PTO, so I shelved it. But these Polyimide boards are meant to operate at 250 C, and char at about 800 C, so it should be fairly stable under these conditions. > 2) See if the resistance increases again rapidly if the board is > grounded. (Your light leptons would probably flow to ground?). > [snip] Perhaps, or react with the H2O and form Hydrinos and Electrinos. Regards, Frederick > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 23:04:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA29609; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:03:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:03:39 -0700 Message-ID: <006901bef6a3$5cab87c0$5e441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <199909040132.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Subject: Re: WebElements periodic table of the elements Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:01:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Y2PKN.0.UE7.xOBqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30078 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Monteverde To: Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 10:32 PM Subject: Re: WebElements periodic table of the elements Rick wrote: > Thanks Frederick - > > > > For Rick, > > > > 115 is still out there. :-) > > > > http://www.shef.ac.uk/~chem/web-elements/ > > > I noticed that 114, 116, 118 are highlighted (elements actually created?) at > that web site, but the odd numbered 113, 115, 117 are not. Is there any > significance to that - are the odd numbers harder to get or less stable? If you Click on the Highlighted Ones they give the decay path, but nothing on the odd-numbered ones, like 113, 115, or 117. I would say hard to get. Regards, Frederick > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 23:17:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA32135; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:16:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:16:39 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Some useful online books? Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 16:16:03 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA32116 Resent-Message-ID: <"tmzI5.0.1s7.6bBqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30080 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://adsbit.harvard.edu/books/ Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 3 23:17:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA32068; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:16:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:16:29 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 02:20:51 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" cc: "Eugene F. Mallove" , "Richard L. Garvin" Subject: Re: Garvin responds, sort of In-Reply-To: <37D02056.B12EDCF ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YlF7G2.0.yq7.yaBqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30079 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, Who, in general, is Garvin. I realize this is an open question and that it is impossible to describe 20 or 30 some odd years of an individuals' presence in a given field. If the person is, as I am, multidisciplinary, it is harder. SO: In brief, who am I ... and then, who is Richard Garvin.. I always WAS curious as to who I was ... or am! Thanks, John Herman " not real sure, from day to day" Schnurer From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 00:08:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA06358; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:07:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:07:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 03:11:29 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? In-Reply-To: <005b01bef6a2$9101c620$5e441d26 fjsparber> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xP1QM1.0.GZ1.PKCqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30081 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, Who had trouble and got "knocked down" with the patent? J On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > To: > Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 7:28 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? > > Robin wrote: > > > > On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:30:54 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > [snip] > > >With a digital ohmmeter set on the 30 Megohm range the dry board read > > >>30 megohms. Rinsed with tap water it read about 2.8 megohms. > > > > > >Held in front, facing the heater at a cherry-red heat it dropped in > > >resistance > > >and facing away it increased in resistance. The greatest change in facing > or > > >not > > >facing the heater was when the heater was shut off and cooled to where > > > no glow was visible. :-) > > > > Interesting. What were the resistance values you measured, and how > > stable were the electrical connections (alligator clips have a habit of > > shifting around when things are moved, varying the contact resistance)? > > Early on the resistance was in the 4-5 Megohm range. A couple of hours after > the > experiment it was about 2-3 megohms and the experiment was repeatable near a > 100 watt incandescent light bulb. (15% visble light output?) > > > > Do you get a change in resistance when you heat the board with a hot > > object? (Plastics often still contain monomers which may be exuded from > > the plastic on heating, producing a partially conducting surface > > layer?). > > I didn't try that, but the Polyimide PC boards are made for high temperature > dip soldering and operation. > > > > I guess you could eliminate this possibility is two ways. > > 1) Pre-bake the board to remove monomers, and see if that makes a > > difference. > > These boards were intended for use as a H2O2 sensor that I developed > that used Ag-AgOx coated over the interdigitated design on the front > and a vacuum deposited NiChrome film on the back that acts as a > heater to "reset" the AgOx on the front to Ag (230 C). > > I got knocked down on a patent application by a similar approach for an O2 > sensor > used in the auto industry. Too expensive to fight the the PTO, so I > shelved it. But these Polyimide boards are meant to operate at 250 C, > and char at about 800 C, so it should be fairly stable under these > conditions. > > > 2) See if the resistance increases again rapidly if the board is > > grounded. (Your light leptons would probably flow to ground?). > > [snip] > > Perhaps, or react with the H2O and form Hydrinos and Electrinos. > > Regards, Frederick > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 01:17:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA13966; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:16:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:16:53 -0700 Message-ID: <009501bef6b5$f9696520$5e441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Light Lepton Pair Production or What? Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 02:14:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"H2ZlK.0.2Q3.rLDqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30082 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You might try following your own advice, Robin. :-) Wet a handkerchief (12 inch square)and ring it out and hold it in front of an infrared heater. (mine is 1.25 kw) Then as it dries let it go slack and watch what happens. Also hold it near your tv or monitor screen. Have fun. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 04:03:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA27437; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 04:02:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 04:02:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 04:02:40 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990901142123.00f25b04 mail.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"asTs51.0.ci6.InFqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30083 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Scott Little wrote: > With an intro like that, how can I possible resist....:) > > >Rather than using a short > >dipole to connect to the toroidial inductor, we wind a simple loop > >antenna. > > To first order at least, you'll get nothing from a loop antenna located > outside a toroid UNLESS the loop passes through the center hole of the > toroid. Are you hoping to catch the stray B that leaks out of real toroids? That's what I'd always thought too. However, now I see that if there is a circular e-field surrounding the region outside of the toroid coil (and passing through the hole), and if the signal driving the toroid is AC, then there should also be a b-field associated with the changing e-field (same as the b-field associated with the "displacement current" between the plates of a capacitor as it's being charged or discharged.) The b-field should be very weak, of course. If I'm visualizing it right, then a coil wrapped around the perimiter of the toroid should be in the right orientation to couple to this weak field. If the perimeter-coil is part of a hi-Q resonant circuit, then the current through the perimeter-coil will build to a large value. > >Just add some capacitors to tune the > >coils to the iron's resonance, and the thing will probably burst into > >flames. > > Your enthusiam is infectious! Or my paranoia! :) On the off chance that this thing is the same as the Hubbard coil (or Sweet device, Coler, etc.), we should be ready for a dangerous energy output. This is like poking around with radioactivity in 1902. Assume that something nasty is waiting around the next corner, and if nothing bad happens, our luck is still holding out. When in doubt, wear goggles and poke at it with a very long stick. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 07:12:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16242; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:11:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:11:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37D12A89.82EC331D ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 07:19:54 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 03, 1999] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------955F5A3EB6917CD41A3FB393" Resent-Message-ID: <"fX1xK3.0.dz3.9YIqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30084 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------955F5A3EB6917CD41A3FB393 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------955F5A3EB6917CD41A3FB393 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from hq.aps.org ([149.28.112.5]) by mail01.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with ESMTP id rt11as.ehq.33qs885 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from whatsnew localhost) by hq.aps.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA28172; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909040206.WAA28172 hq.aps.org> To: aki ix.netcom.com From: "What's New" Subject: What's New for Sep 03, 1999 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 3 Sep 99 Washington, DC 1. SPY HYSTERIA: BUT WILL YOU STILL RESPECT ME IN THE MORNING? "Safe sex" takes on an entirely different meaning under a new DOE policy requiring employees who hold security clearances to report any "close and continuing contacts" with foreigners from a list of 25 sensitive countries. In response to employee requests for clarification of "close and continuing," one-night stands were specifically exempted from the reporting requirements. This could be the biggest romantic turn-off since nipple piercing. 2. BUDGET: WHITE HOUSE GIVES SCIENCE TOP BILLING. No one was surprised that White House Chief of Staff John Podesta would use a slow news week to promise a veto of Republican spending plans and tax cut proposals. The White House is spoiling for a fight. What was remarkable was that, of all the issues he could have used to justify a veto, he chose to devote his speech to the impact on science funding. He quoted Allan Bromley's op-ed in last week's Washington Post (WN 27 Aug 99): "Congress has lost sight of the critical role science plays in American life." He also lashed Congress for diverting almost $1B to earmarked projects, "undermining the discipline of competition and peer review and slashing funds for higher priority projects." Even James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), House Science Committee chair, while charging the Administration with significantly overstating the amount of money that can be made available for science, welcomed the Administration to the cause of increased science funding. 3. NIF: DIRECTOR RESIGNS AMIDST TALK OF COST OVERRUNS. Even as DOE was undertaking a complete review of the National Ignition Facility at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, the director of the $1.2B project, Mike Campbell, resigned for "personal reasons." The announcement followed a blitz of anonymous faxes revealing that Campbell had misrepresented himself as a PhD. His bio in the '95-'96 edition of American Men and Women of Science claims a PhD in Applied Physics from Princeton in '77, but he had no bio in earlier editions. He is expected to lose his security clearance. He was named a Fellow of the APS in '88 and received the APS Excellence in Plasma physics award in '90. The DOE review of NIF is focusing on the causes of a rumored $300M cost overrun. 4. EVOLUTION: WAS THERE A KANSAS BEFORE THERE WERE PEOPLE? The Grace Dangberg Foundation was created in 1982 "to improve the quality of history education." Eight months ago, it proudly announced that it was developing a new textbook on the history of Kansas for seventh and eighth graders. The book was to begin with the rich fossil record of the inland sea that once covered the state. That was before the Kansas School Board deleted Darwin from the curriculum. "You don't want to offend any group in Kansas," the foundation's director said, explaining why the book will now start with the arrival of native Americans. THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) --------------955F5A3EB6917CD41A3FB393-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 08:44:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA01588; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:43:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:43:31 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:47:51 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l cc: freenrg-l , William Beaty Subject: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7Njzt1.0.iO.ZuJqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30085 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, See notes, commenta and so on. I am one of the first in line to want to see UE, Unexpected Energy. I also caution against contusions from leaping at conclusions, mixing grapefruits and pawl retractors, "text out of context" ... and so on.... SO: I look at some of these things, below, and am grateful to Bill for getting a lot of different things all together in one place... On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > All, > > Maybe I'm a little dense, but, I keep coming back to a common thread in > many of these OU devices, the spark. I've brought this up before but it > didn't go anywhere. > > But recently: > Stephan Hartmann in his inquires about spark gap oxidation > generated electricity (back spikes). Q: How does oxidation "generate" electricity? Q: Are we saying Back EMF is the resuly of oxidation ??? Please elucidate. ---------------- Note: The term BBGB means "Blow-By-Grinding-Blow" .... or... say it to us in really simple terms, define any new things. Example: If you say electrons get from here to there because of the new "rubber band and ping pong ball theory-model" ... then tell us what this IS..... or if electron motion is due to "resonant doppler compression effects" ...then tell us what THAT is... or is the electron motion is due to "McCready's Rear Action" .... then tell us what THAT is PLEASE !!!!! ______________________________________________________ > And, Henry Curtis's note about Santilli's work. Q: > BBGB ..... What is-are the note and work, please? ______________________ > So I thought I'd give it another try. > > We have the two ideas presented ____________________ > > 1) Stephan Hartmann's idea about a simple chemical reaction going on in the > spark gap that has as a by-product some extra electrons. > Can we have a little BBGB on how this is? _____________________ > 2) In Santilli's data oxygen is combining with several different low > molecular weight elements including carbon to form higher atomic weight > elements with the liberation of energy in commercial quantities. > How does this work?? _______________________________ > Let me add 3 more off the wall conjectures. > > 3) Remember when Stephan brought up the subject of air entrainment when he > blew into a tube with a 1 inch gap between his mouth and the tube, how he > got significantly more air volume than when his mouth was directly against > the end of the tube. Does it sort of seem self evident you get maybe a better air flow with a seal... as opposed to a 1 inch gap??? Q: Did Stepahn say more on the matter? Is this taken out of context?? ______________________________________________________ Couldn't something similar be going on with electrons > in a spark gap. Maybe as the spark jumps the gap through the air it is > entraining excess atmospheric electrons/ions to add too the expected amount > of flow. (Yah, I know it's kind of a stretch, but what the hey!) > Can you please let us know in a little more detail what you are observing? Is there a tube here? Why and where is there a gap? ______________________________- > Question: Has anyone tried to replicate this in a sealed environment, so > that at some point any excess atmospheric electrons would become depleted? > ++++++++++ NOTE: If you read up on arcs and sparks and spark gaps you will find at least a few areas where considerable work has been done. You will NOT, in most cases, find useful material in databases, search engines and-or WWW a] gaps and their use as RF generators b] and as interruptions in heavy power switching c] driving induction heaters > 4) A spark gap could be considered at different moments a capacitor & a > resistor. A capacitor in that two conductive surfaces separated by a > dielectric (air) with one side connected to a charge, and the other to > ground (or whatever). A resistor in that it conducts electricity from one > point to another converting some electrons into other forms of energy in > the transfer (heat, light). I've even seen it referred to as negative > resistance? > NOTE: First you should read a whole bunch. AND: In general the spark-arc is treated as a plasma and can exhibit negative resistance effects. AND: Negative resistance does NOT mean free energy, or "super conductor like" ... is is taken to mean as a non linear electronic effect. READ ABOUT: Non linear circuit elements, neon and other glow tubes, voltage regulator vacuum tubes, tunnel diodes AND THEN AFTER you have read all that.... you will start to get an idea. It is complex, not well understood and a great deal of fun! -----_____________________ > Consider, in a commutator type spark gap you have two plates in proximity > to each other, one with a charge. As the commutator turns these plates are > pulled apart in distance thus converting mechanical energy into electrical. SAY WHAT ???? > Thus momentarily the charged plate has more energy than it was initially > given (back spike?). HOW IS THIS??? Then as the charge grows from being stretched it > reaches a critical level where the dielectric properties of the air fail > and the charge jumps across as a spark. > How doea "charge Grow" from being "stretched"??? > Consider also that the spark forms as the conductors are pulled apart, not > so much as when the conductors are brought together as the resistance of > the dielectric decreases. Perhaps the reverse would apply, as the plates > of a capacitor get closer the charge decreases. The attraction of opposite > charges pull the plates closer converting electrical energy into mechanical > energy. We all better read about arcs and sparks before this goes much further.... Something is seriously skewed here... > > Thus Newman's battery provides the initial charge, then the mechanical > energy of the commutator is converted to electricity and fed back to the > battery. Now you have added a huge inductor and other elements.... these had best be WELL defined before and BBGB is attempted. I think this may also apply to Zaev's system. This would not > apply to a fixed gap spark plug type situation. (Yah, I know this is also > a stretch {pun intended ;^} ) > > Question: Has the energy involved in turning the commutator been properly > accounted for in the overall system? > > And last, in the off the wall category..... > > 5) Tom Bearden's papers indicate that any capacitor is a ZPE gateway, the > problem is getting it to stay open to a ZPE energy flow. There may be a > connection here. If the commutator spark gap can be considered a > capacitor, perhaps during the dynamics of the changing capacitive > conductive values involved, the conditions are momentarily right to allow > a brief ZPE energy flow to add to the energy of the system. > First define all of the electrical elements. Then ask: Has anyone ever produced a BBGB description of T. Beardon's work.. any part... that operates as hardball, nuts and bolts, belt and suspenders engineering?? > > Comments please.... Finally: Don't get me wrong..... DO READ ... and become familiar with the terms and effects in the open literature ... at the very least. > > Bill > webriggs concentric.net > briggs XLNsystems.com > > DISCLAIMER - Any flaky hair brained ideas presented are my own, > and not the flaky hair brained ideas of my employer. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 08:58:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA05036; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:56:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:56:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:00:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: TIME ...Re: "Recessed in Time" In-Reply-To: <199908242120.QAA19946 mirage.skypoint.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KCJOD3.0.cE1.L4Kqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30086 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear John L. Suppose you set up a drag race..... and send a signal, such as a tape of music, down a path of, say, 1,000 feet or so ...and a beam of light over the same diastance.... the light in air, the music in some other medium, or maybe air.... and the music gets there faster than light... what does that do? No Einstein, no theory.... it just does it.... straight, plain, experimentalism... J On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, John Logajan wrote: > Jim Ostrowski wrote: > > > It all reconciles consistently if you accept that everything removed > > > from you by distance X is also recessed in time by some constant > > > factor multiplied by distance X. > > > > What esperimental basis is there to accept such an idea (that everything > > removed from an observer is ACTUALLY recessed in time)? > > The difference between "actual" and "apparent" is philosophical. > > If the "apperance" of something can't be gotten around by any means > we can think of, then the difference between "apparent" and > "actuality" is slim indeed. > > > If the same criteria were applied to sound waves in air , an airplane > > would be recessed in time by the mach factor * the distance X. No one > > accepts that idea, do they? > > > If sound were the only means of communication, all attempts to measure > time between remote sites would indeed yield such magnitude of time > recession with distance. We happen to usually have faster means of > information transport (light, radio wave, etc) between remote sites, > so the time recession magnitudes we can measure to the best of our > ability are much less than with sound waves. > > If gravity waves really do travel much faster than light, and if we > can find a means to send information over those waves, even a single bit, > then all ideas of time recession with distance will again shrink. We will > have gone to the next level of "appearence." > > > I haven't really envoked Einstein or Doppler. It is just a consequence > of any finite speed communication that our ideas of time must diverge > as we change distance from some external point of interest. The fastest > means of communication available sets the limit beyond which we have > no means to distinquish the "apparent" from the "actual." > > > -- > - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 651-633-8928 - > - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - > - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 11:17:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02352; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:16:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:16:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990904142000.00b285b0 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:20:00 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"A-vHw2.0.ca.g7Mqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30087 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To All, I realize that some of us are already aware of this, but I believe that it is important enough to bear a repeat. The power-to-weight ratio of the EST stable plasma totally blows away all existing fuel or energy storage devices by several orders of magnitude. It can be safely used in houses, cars, planes, and for interplanetary and interstellar craft. (Maybe even for fusion?) It potentially stores 10^11 Joules (!) within a containment vessel weighing 94 Kg. The exhaust gases (non-combustion) from heating: Isp = 1.43 x 10^5 sec! The electron spiral toroid device (EST): A spiral of paired electrons rotating in a stabilized toroid configuration. Energy can be added by continuously pumping it with microwave energy. So far, there has been no indication of limiting factors. The leakage is small, and the EST configuration is reported as stable. The manufacturing technique is proprietary, but in spite of that, several large corporations are now directly funding Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. They are now building large units. The cash strapped NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts is also funding. . A 26 page (pdf) description [and story] is a 'must read' for anyone attempting replication: Clint Seward Electron Power Systems, Inc. "Low-Cost Space Transportation Using Electron Spiral Toroid (EST) Propulsion" There was research of plasma toroids during the 1980's within a Star Wars type of electromagnetic accelerator The shape may have been the only thing in common, although some folks might consider the EST as a spin-off. And for those of you who enjoy slugging though IBM's patent images and their iffy downloads-- 3 Seward patents: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05175466__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05589727__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05773919__ If anyone wishes to attempt it, a good place to start might be the Ball Lightning Experiments using a kitchen microwave oven-- Bill Beaty's Site: Best Colin Quinney From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 13:56:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA00229; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:56:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:56:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 10:55:54 -1000 Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909041655.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"RhC3e.0.P3.WTOqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30088 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill - > When in doubt, > wear goggles and poke at it with a very long stick. Kind of like sex in the 90's. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 20:01:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22884; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:59:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:59:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37D1B4F4.137F ca-ois.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 17:10:28 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME ...Re: "Recessed in Time" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2HX1T2.0.Ub5.0oTqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30089 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > > Suppose you set up a drag race..... and send a signal, such as a > tape of music, down a path of, say, 1,000 feet or so ...and a beam of > light over the same diastance.... the light in air, the music in some > other medium, or maybe air.... and the music gets there faster than > light... what does that do? This message is for John S. , primarily- Hope you don't mind if I get involved in this since I (Jim O.) am the one raising the questions in the posts you have pasted below.. I would very much like to do this drag race but I don't see any way to get c+ velocities using transmission lines unless you subscribe to Mendel Sachs' emitter absorber theories which conflict with the results of MOST transmission line experiments, with the notable exception of my own which was probably flawed by it's looped configuration . Until Sachs figures out a way to modulate the measured characteristic impedance at both ends simultaneously (possible maybe) I'll have to put further tests along those lines on the back burner. So the drag race would be the thing to try like you say, but what kind of signal are we going to use consistent with the idea of getting c+ velocities? And this idea would be based on who else's experimental result? Transmission lines all have "velocity factors" represented as some decimal fraction of 1 (1 being equal to c velocity) , NEVER MORE than 1. This is proven by the fact that quarter wave stubs, half wave stubs and etc are made out of pieces of transmission lines which are all SHORTER THAN the free space wavelength. The size of these stubs is the free space wl multiplied by the velocity factor * .25, .50 or whatever length of stub desired. MUSIC is a pattern of sound waves which may be faster than what the eye can follow on an analog scope trace set to 20 msec/div but this would be about 50 times too slow for when your scope is set to 1 usec/div for monitoring arrival times across a path length of say 300 meters (1 usec delay). How are you even going to FIND the delay in the modulation wavefront let alone measure it at that time/div? How long do you propose our "dragstrip" to be? 1/4 mile? We'd be up to 1.3 usec in that case. Why do you insist on sending music? Why did Gunter Nimtz (Mozart's 40th across 12 lousy CENTIMETERS of space)?...beats me... > No Einstein, no theory.... it just does it.... straight, plain, > experimentalism... Yeah, yeah ...let's hear some of your ideas and I'll return the favor and give you some of mine, right here on this forum. No I'm not gonna contact you offline. Why do you always want everybody to contact you offline for stuff? You say that to everybody over and over, drives me nuts. Jim O. > On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, John Logajan wrote: > > > Jim Ostrowski wrote: > > > > It all reconciles consistently if you accept that everything removed > > > > from you by distance X is also recessed in time by some constant > > > > factor multiplied by distance X. > > > > > > What esperimental basis is there to accept such an idea (that everything > > > removed from an observer is ACTUALLY recessed in time)? > > > > The difference between "actual" and "apparent" is philosophical. > > > > If the "apperance" of something can't be gotten around by any means > > we can think of, then the difference between "apparent" and > > "actuality" is slim indeed. > > > > > If the same criteria were applied to sound waves in air , an airplane > > > would be recessed in time by the mach factor * the distance X. No one > > > accepts that idea, do they? > > > > > > If sound were the only means of communication, all attempts to measure > > time between remote sites would indeed yield such magnitude of time > > recession with distance. We happen to usually have faster means of > > information transport (light, radio wave, etc) between remote sites, > > so the time recession magnitudes we can measure to the best of our > > ability are much less than with sound waves. > > > > If gravity waves really do travel much faster than light, and if we > > can find a means to send information over those waves, even a single bit, > > then all ideas of time recession with distance will again shrink. We will > > have gone to the next level of "appearence." > > > > > > I haven't really envoked Einstein or Doppler. It is just a consequence > > of any finite speed communication that our ideas of time must diverge > > as we change distance from some external point of interest. The fastest > > means of communication available sets the limit beyond which we have > > no means to distinquish the "apparent" from the "actual." > > > > > > -- > > - John Logajan -- jlogajan skypoint.com -- 651-633-8928 - > > - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - > > - WWW URL = http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan - > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 20:50:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA01563; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:49:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:49:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199909050349.XAA16125 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: TIME ...Re: "Recessed in Time" Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:44:32 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6vdPm2.0.LO.5XUqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30090 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hope you don't mind my replying... > I would very much like to do this drag race but I don't see any way to > get c+ velocities using transmission lines unless you subscribe to > Mendel Sachs' emitter absorber theories which conflict with the results > of MOST transmission line experiments, with the notable exception of my > own which was probably flawed by it's looped configuration . Until Sachs > figures out a way to modulate the measured characteristic impedance at > both ends simultaneously (possible maybe) I'll have to put further tests > along those lines on the back burner. So the drag race would be the > thing to try like you say, but what kind of signal are we going to use > consistent with the idea of getting c+ velocities? You don't necessarily have to use transmission lines. It could be along free space, through a fluid medium, through a wire, waveguide, etc. Theories? Well, we certainly can't allow anyone to do an experiment without a theory to support it. Perish the thought. ;) > And this idea would be based on who else's experimental result? Mine. Don't ask; I haven't said anything because it is proprietary right now. > Transmission lines all have "velocity factors" represented as some > decimal fraction of 1 (1 being equal to c velocity) , NEVER MORE than 1. This is a definition, not necessarily a truth in all cases. What do you mean by 'transmission line' here? If you mean a wire, it ain't required. > MUSIC is a pattern of sound waves which may be faster than what the eye > can follow on an analog scope trace set to 20 msec/div but this would be > about 50 times too slow for when your scope is set to 1 usec/div for > monitoring arrival times across a path length of say 300 meters (1 usec > delay). How are you even going to FIND the delay in the modulation > wavefront let alone measure it at that time/div? I am not using music as the marker in my experiments. I send it just for the hell of it. For a marker, I use a single event pulse, high rise time, short duration. Then you can find the delay and easily measure it. Its not as difficult as you might think. > How long do you propose our "dragstrip" to be? 1/4 mile? We'd be up to > 1.3 usec in that case. 400 meters. Doesn't have to be though. But it is easy to transmit a signal across this distance. > Why do you insist on sending music? Why did Gunter Nimtz (Mozart's 40th > across 12 lousy CENTIMETERS of space)?...beats me... Nimtz did it for some reason I don't understand. We send it for the heck of it. No really great speed measurements come from it, but... > Yeah, yeah ...let's hear some of your ideas and I'll return the favor > and give you some of mine, right here on this forum. No I'm not gonna > contact you offline. Why do you always want everybody to contact you > offline for stuff? You say that to everybody over and over, drives me > nuts. First of all, let me tell you something. This is not just something John is working on...I am working on it. I have spent many $$$ on this project, and don't wish to divulge technical information right now. What I think John is wanting to get across is the fact that if you send a signal from here to there faster than a light pulse can get from here to there, you have FTL. Assume of course the light pulse travels through free space, so its velocity = 299,792,458m/sec. As for the offline stuff, that's John's business. I have talked to him offline, and got a wealth of information back. In fact, that's what got me involved in FTL experimentation in the first place. We started working on something, and continue to do so. I've built the machines, done the experiments, I am not ready to publish yet because I haven't covered all of my bases. I'm not going to go waving a flag saying 'I've done it!' until I have checked and rechecked everything. I am a meticulous person, and probably always will be. I'm not going to say how it works yet, or how to make one yet. This is subject to no change. The gist of John's post appears to be, screw the theory conceived by a fallible human mind, and trust the experimental test performed on nature. If the theory don't fit...trash can it. Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 22:06:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA12461; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:05:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:05:34 -0700 Message-ID: <19990905050702.22075.rocketmail web124.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:07:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Speed of light To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"SFwNP.0.d23.TeVqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30091 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following "Physics Update" item from "Physics Today" (1999 Aug) might be of interest. This is a report of a "drag race" (in the words of some vorts) of cosmic proportions. The speed of light is frequency independent to within a factor of 6x10^-21. Bradley Schaefer of Yale University bases this estimate on the observed arrival of gamma rays from distant explosive events in the cosmos, such as gamma-ray bursters. If the speed of light varied slightly for the different frequencies, then light of different frequencies emitted at the same time would arrive at our telescopes at different times. But this is not the case. The best previous effort to locate a frequency dependence for c was made in 1969; using light coming from the Crab pulsar, a limit oa the 5x10^-17 level was deduced. Thus, Einstein's special theory of relativity now seems vindicated over an additional four orders of magnitude. By the way, the prefix for anything as small as 10^-21 is "zepto." [Full paper in Physical Review Letters, vol. 82 (1999) p. 4964.] === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 22:19:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA15357; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:18:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:18:56 -0700 Message-ID: <19990905052026.22751.rocketmail web124.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:20:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Uncertainty To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"i6iDP2.0.kl3.0rVqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30092 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is another "Physics Update" from "Physics today," (1999 Aug). Zero-point motion in a Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC) has now been studied. A group of MIT researchers measured the momentum distribution of a trapped sodium BEC, taking advantage of the fact that atoms absorb light at slightly lower (or higher) frequencies if they are moving away from (or toward) the light. In Bragg scattering, an atom absorbs a photon from a laser beam and is stimulated by a second laser to emit a photon at a different frequency. For the most efficient stimulation, the emitted frequency is also shifted upward or downward depending on the atom's motion. Measuring the width of this resonance allowed the researchers to determine the range of momentum values for the atoms in the condensate. Multiplying the measured momentum spred by the size of the condensate gave an answer of approximately h-bar, the minimum value allowed by Heisenberg's uncertainty relation, demonstrating that the BEC is maximally coherent. Previous measurements of momentum spreads in BECs were made on expanding condensates, typically having energies hundreds of times larger than the zero-point enerby. According to Wolfgang Ketterle, "The trapped condensate has no entropy and behaves like matter at absolute zero." [Full paper in J. Stenger et al., Physical Review Letters, vol. 82 (1999) p. 4569] === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 22:31:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA18300; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:31:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:31:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19990905053237.23371.rocketmail web124.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:32:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Speed of light To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"eEToZ2.0.rT4.R0Wqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30093 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is an item from "Physics Update" from "Physics today" (1999 Aug) that might be of interest to some vorts---a "drag race" on a cosmic scale. The speed of light is frequency independent to within a factor of 6x10^-21. Bradley Schaefer of Yale University bases this estimate on the observed arrival of gamma rays from distant explosive events in the cosmos, such as gamma-ray bursters. If the speed of light varied slightly for different frequencies, then light of different frequencies emitted at the same time would arrive at our telescopes at different times. But this is not the case. The best previous effort to locate a frequency dependence for c was made in 1969; using light coming from the Crab pulsar, a limit at the 5x10^-17 level was deduced. Thus, Einstein's special theory of relativity now seems vindicated over an additional four orders of magnitude. By the way, the prefix for anything as small as 10^-21 is "zepto." [Full paper in B.E.Schaefer, Physical Review Letters, vol. 82 (1999) p. 4964] === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 22:55:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22322; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:54:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:54:51 -0700 Message-ID: <19990905055620.24737.rocketmail web124.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:56:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ZM8sc.0.dS5.hMWqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30094 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A >...... However, now I see that if there is a >circular e-field surrounding the region outside of the toroid coil (and >passing through the hole), and if the signal driving the toroid is AC, >then there should also be a b-field associated with the changing e-field >(same as the b-field associated with the "displacement current" between >the plates of a capacitor as it's being charged or discharged.) The > b-field should be very weak, of course. If I'm visualizing it right, then >a coil wrapped around the perimiter of the toroid should be in the right >orientation to couple to this weak field. To introduce some standard definitions here for tori: A direction around the torus and through the hole is POLOIDAL. A direction around the torus but not through the hole is TOROIDAL. Your coil wrapped around the perimeter of the toroid is in the TOROIDAL direction, which is in the same direction as the b-field induced by the changing e-field (which is in the POLOIDAL direction). Your wire will not pick up anything, except the weak toroidal e-field induced by any toroidal turns your primary poloidal winding might incidentally make around the torus. >If the perimeter-coil is part >of a hi-Q resonant circuit, then the current through the perimeter-coil >will build to a large value. High Q does not multiply energy. It takes many cycles, hence a long time, for energy to build up in a high-Q system. Energy cannot be removed any faster than it is supplied without damping the oscillation. High Q can accumulate energy from a low power source over time, making it easier to detect. High Q can also discriminate against energy sources not close to the resonant frequency. 60 Hz is a bad frequency to use for this experiment, because the North American environment is replete with 60 Hz energy that will interfere with your measurements. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 4 22:59:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23934; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:58:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:58:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199909050558.BAA12508 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: Speed of light Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:53:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"F4snG.0.ur5.1QWqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30095 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > The speed of light is frequency independent to within a factor of > 6x10^-21. Bradley Schaefer of Yale University bases this estimate on the > observed arrival of gamma rays from distant explosive events in the cosmos, > such as gamma-ray bursters. If the speed of light varied slightly for > different frequencies, then light of different frequencies emitted at the > same time would arrive at our telescopes at different times. But this is not > the case. The best previous effort to locate a frequency dependence for c was > made in 1969; using light coming from the Crab pulsar, a limit at the > 5x10^-17 level was deduced. Thus, Einstein's special theory of relativity now > seems vindicated over an additional four orders of magnitude. This is what I like: an experimental result that gives us data. Not just he said, she said, but actual data. I think it has always been accepted however, that light speed is frequency independent...now we know it is most likely true. Whether or not Einstein's theory of relativity is correct or not is still not known...there are scientists actively trying to find alternatives, to aid in the quantization of physics...Jack Sarfatti for instance. Which theory will hold? Only time and a lot of experiment will tell. --Kyle From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 5 20:19:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA00837; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:17:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:17:29 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: WebElements periodic table of the elements Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:16:50 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <5C=TN369HnVM7wo9ocs+bTC9VWhC 4ax.com> References: <199909040132.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> <006901bef6a3$5cab87c0$5e441d26@fjsparber> In-Reply-To: <006901bef6a3$5cab87c0$5e441d26 fjsparber> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA00815 Resent-Message-ID: <"4HxSz.0._C.99pqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30096 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:01:44 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >> I noticed that 114, 116, 118 are highlighted (elements actually created?) >at >> that web site, but the odd numbered 113, 115, 117 are not. Is there any >> significance to that - are the odd numbers harder to get or less stable? > >If you Click on the Highlighted Ones they give the decay path, but nothing >on >the odd-numbered ones, like 113, 115, or 117. I would say hard to get. [snip] I suspect that in this case lower stability and "hard to get" go hand in hand. I.e. a less stable isotope (or element) won't form as easily as a stable one. (Nuclear cohesion force would be the spatial derivative of the binding energy). Note also that even elements are frequently more stable than odd ones, due to pairing of nucleons. Where both neutrons and protons are even numbered (i.e. pairing occurs for both species), the nucleus tends to be especially stable. This is also the reason that even numbered elements frequently have many stable isotopes, while odd numbered ones frequently have only a few, and even then they are usually the isotopes with an even number of neutrons. I.e. because the element number is odd, the mass of the stable isotopes is also odd, resulting in even neutrons. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 02:49:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07084; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:48:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:48:53 -0700 Message-ID: <19990906095037.23183.rocketmail web121.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:50:37 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: Gravimetric/Periodic Table To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"20v3g3.0.ck1.5uuqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30097 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Periodic TAble is a gravimetric table. Hank Wallace, of GE, realized that as you go to the higher elements there is and excess of neutrons....capable of generating a kinemassic filed as described in his pioneering patents 3626605 and 3626606 Method for Generating a Secondary Gravitational Field. On Feb 14 1980 the NEW SCIENTIST published a short piece on his work. HAnk passed away in Florida in the mid-nineties. I used to do reverse patent citations for him on DIALOG. Best, Ron Kita Antigravitics_R_US antigravity news web: http://www.padrak.com/agn __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 07:01:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA14020; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:58:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:58:54 -0700 Message-ID: <19990906135821.30836.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [194.73.204.29] From: "Rob King" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Mini-Romag generator Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 06:58:21 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"SCF_m3.0.vQ3.TYyqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30098 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Has anyone tried reproducing the the mini-Romag device as shown on Jean-louis Naudin's web page? Looks to be a simple device to build and test. http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromag.htm Cheers Rob King ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 07:54:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26837; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:53:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:53:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990906095315.00f310fc mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:53:15 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Mini-Romag generator In-Reply-To: <19990906135821.30836.qmail hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ylR9s3.0.FZ6.vLzqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30099 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:58 AM 9/6/99 PDT, Rob King wrote: >Hi, > >Has anyone tried reproducing the the mini-Romag device as shown on >Jean-louis Naudin's web page? ...er, check out the site the JLN got that thing from: http://www.magneticenergy.com They've even got a Cold Fusion Motor. The explanation of its operation is a real gem. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 08:13:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA32302; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:12:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:12:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:12:18 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. In-Reply-To: <19990905055620.24737.rocketmail web124.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Dap9l1.0.eu7.Jdzqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30100 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 4 Sep 1999, Michael Schaffer wrote: > To introduce some standard definitions here for tori: > > A direction around the torus and through the hole is POLOIDAL. > A direction around the torus but not through the hole is TOROIDAL. > > Your coil wrapped around the perimeter of the toroid is in the TOROIDAL > direction, Good, I needed that term (or I need to take more vacation days and draw diagrams of the darned thing... or just build it.) > which is in the same direction as the b-field induced by the > changing e-field (which is in the POLOIDAL direction). Your wire will not > pick up anything, except the weak toroidal e-field induced by any toroidal > turns your primary poloidal winding might incidentally make around the torus. Conventional EM theory would predict that my coil cannot pick up anything. If experiment verifies the same, then my ideas are wrong. On the other hand, if experiment verifies that there *IS* significant coupling to the toroidial perimeter coil... then things become interesting. > > >If the perimeter-coil is part > >of a hi-Q resonant circuit, then the current through the perimeter-coil > >will build to a large value. > > High Q does not multiply energy. It takes many cycles, hence a long > time, for energy to build up in a high-Q system. I'm combining two concepts here: toroidial inductors, and resonant antennas. The effect involving "resonance-based increase in effective antenna area" (otherwise known as "energy sucking effect") shows that increasing the Q definitely does multiply the energy/sec (it increases the power.) It changes the coupling between distant (or not so distant) coils. It makes a coil behave in an active manner where it reaches out and diverts the poynting-vector flow towards itself. If I'm right, then the intense fields which develop around the toroidial pickup coil will essentially reach inside the donut-inductor and draw energy out of it. > Energy cannot be removed any faster > than it is supplied without damping the oscillation. High Q can accumulate > energy from a low power source over time, making it easier to detect. High Q > can also discriminate against energy sources not close to the resonant > frequency. Correct. However, there is a third effect: high-Q circuits can surround themselves with a phase-locked EM field which cancels out some of the energy in the surrounding EM waves. Energy doesn't just vanish. The "cancelling out" effect simply means that energy is extracted from the EM waves and appears within the resonant circuit. This is how AM radios and hobbyist crystal radios work: they have a small pickup coil which is tuned to resonance with the incoming waves. They are not just bandpass filters, instead they employ the same field-physics which allows tiny atoms to absorb EM radiation even when the wavelength of that radiation is thousands of times longer than the diameter of the atomic "antenna." This is what I'm ranting about in "Energy Sucking Antennas" http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html If you don't like my own non-math descriptions, please track down the papers by Bohren and by Paul/Fischer listed in the refs at the end of my article. > > 60 Hz is a bad frequency to use for this experiment, because the North > American environment is replete with 60 Hz energy that will interfere with > your measurements. Definitely a problem, but I suspect that the energy flow between the donut inductor and the toroidial pickup coil will be massive, and not just a tiny leakage. However, it would be wise if I use ferrite rather than laminated iron, and drive everything at high audio frequencies via a sinewave generator and an audio power amplifier. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 08:29:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04622; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:28:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:28:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990906135821.30836.qmail hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:26:53 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Mini-Romag generator Resent-Message-ID: <"WPkic3.0.781.tszqt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30101 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi, > >Has anyone tried reproducing the the mini-Romag device as shown on >Jean-louis Naudin's web page? > >Looks to be a simple device to build and test. > >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromag.htm > >Cheers > >Rob King ***{If these instructions were based on an actual tested device that works in the real world, rather than on a theory in someone's head, I would expect to see a photo of an actual device, coupled with experimental data points. I do not. While his oscilloscope traces suggest that he has actually built the thing, the writeup leaves me unclear as to how much of this is opinion and speculation, and how much is fact. --MJ}*** > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 08:52:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA10470; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:51:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:51:51 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-1-dyn41.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.56] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <047901bef87f$00ff02c0$454a66d1 w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Gravimetric/Periodic Table Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:26:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"qFvAi.0.RZ2.NC-qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30102 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Ron, At one point Dennis Cravens the electric propulsion researcher was trying to find out what happened to Wallace. You might want to contact him. Unfortunately I don't have his email. Fred > >Hank passed away in Florida in the mid-nineties. I used >to do reverse patent citations for him on DIALOG. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 09:10:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16222; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:09:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:09:34 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-1-dyn41.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.191.182.56] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <049501bef881$7acedec0$454a66d1 w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Oh. My. God. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:04:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"UcJQV3.0.Oz3.-S-qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30103 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Bill and all, >On Sat, 4 Sep 1999, Michael Schaffer wrote: > >> To introduce some standard definitions here for tori: >> >> A direction around the torus and through the hole is POLOIDAL. >> A direction around the torus but not through the hole is TOROIDAL. >> >> Your coil wrapped around the perimeter of the toroid is in the TOROIDAL >> direction, > >Good, I needed that term (or I need to take more vacation days and draw >diagrams of the darned thing... or just build it.) I found the patents for the roating flux transformers I told you about Bill, http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04639610__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04638177__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US04595843__ These use 90 degree phase shirt between poloidal and toroidal windings to generate a rotating flux around the toroid. The inventors claim zero hysteresis loss as I recall. > >> >> 60 Hz is a bad frequency to use for this experiment, because the North >> American environment is replete with 60 Hz energy that will interfere with >> your measurements. > >Definitely a problem, but I suspect that the energy flow between the donut >inductor and the toroidial pickup coil will be massive, and not just a >tiny leakage. However, it would be wise if I use ferrite rather than >laminated iron, and drive everything at high audio frequencies via a >sinewave generator and an audio power amplifier. Tesla picked 60 Hz because it corresponded roughly with the diameter of the earth and so would resonate in his world power system. As a result the whole planet rings like a bell at this freq. Not necessarily a good thing. However if your gadget is intended to be a black hole antenna then of course this is the highest peak in the ambient power spectrum so it is the BEST freq. You'll also clean up the local EM pollution too :-) Sutton intended his black hole antenna to pick up 60 Hz and at one point refers directly to the Tesla car as an example of this process. However I don't think any device built on taking ambient EM energy out of the environment is going to be very useful in the end. What happens when everybody has one? If there is free energy in solid state electromagnetic devices it is in the nonlinear characteristics of ferromagnetic materials based on their quantum nonlocal nature. The energy will be taken out of the magnet itself and not from the environment. Fred From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 10:06:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA30476; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:05:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:05:32 -0700 Message-ID: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:05:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Goldes To: Quinney , vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 207.44.219.205 Resent-Message-ID: <"pAA3n3.0.2S7.SH_qt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30104 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------Original Message------ From: Quinney To: Sent: September 4, 1999 9:20:00 PM GMT Subject: EST. The power storage breakthrough. To All, I realize that some of us are already aware of this, but I believe that it is important enough to bear a repeat. The power-to-weight ratio of the EST stable plasma totally blows away all existing fuel or energy storage devices by several orders of magnitude. It can be safely used in houses, cars, planes, and for interplanetary and interstellar craft. (Maybe even for fusion?) It potentially stores 10^11 Joules (!) within a containment vessel weighing 94 Kg. The exhaust gases (non-combustion) from heating: Isp = 1.43 x 10^5 sec! The electron spiral toroid device (EST): A spiral of paired electrons rotating in a stabilized toroid configuration. Energy can be added by continuously pumping it with microwave energy. So far, there has been no indication of limiting factors. The leakage is small, and the EST configuration is reported as stable. The manufacturing technique is proprietary, but in spite of that, several large corporations are now directly funding Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. They are now building large units. The cash strapped NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts is also funding. . A 26 page (pdf) description [and story] is a 'must read' for anyone attempting replication: Clint Seward Electron Power Systems, Inc. "Low-Cost Space Transportation Using Electron Spiral Toroid (EST) Propulsion" There was research of plasma toroids during the 1980's within a Star Wars type of electromagnetic accelerator The shape may have been the only thing in common, although some folks might consider the EST as a spin-off. And for those of you who enjoy slugging though IBM's patent images and their iffy downloads-- 3 Seward patents: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05175466__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05589727__ http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05773919__ If anyone wishes to attempt it, a good place to start might be the Ball Lightning Experiments using a kitchen microwave oven-- Bill Beaty's Site: Best Colin Quinney A review of the Seward paper both here and by a well respected researcher that many of you know and who would probably prefer that his name not be used, does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised performance or anything remotely close. It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy storage. The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really solid work. Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most welcome. Mark Goldes __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 14:49:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04038; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:48:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:48:35 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01bef8b9$b1592440$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: CF/OU D2O- H2O Heat Pipe Experiment Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:45:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"wjl5A.0._-.pQ3rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30105 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stuff Needed, 1 ea. 1 inch x 12 inch pipe nipple, 1 inch pipe coupling, 1 inch x 1/4 inch bell reducer, 1 ea. 0-1000 psi 2.5 inch 316 Stainless Steel pressure gauge, $35.00 1 ea. 1500 watt 240 volt Chromalox water heater element 1 inch mpt, 7.375 insertion length $7.00. 1 ea, 120 volt 600 watt dimmer unit $6.00 1, Screw in heater, fill pipe (held vertical) to 9 inches with D2O-H2O-K2CO3. 2, Screw on bell reducer and thread pressure gauge loosely into it. 3, Apply power to heater element with dimmer unit until air is expelled from unit, and tighten pressure gauge. 4, Adjust power input with dimmer unit until pressure is stable at 375 - 400 PSI. (~440-450 F) 5, Using fiberglass insulation or such, determine if unit will self-sustain. 6, If unit tends to self-sustain, employ calorimeter coil of 1/4" copper tubing around vapor zone of the pipe. This SHOULD PRODUCE, Hydrinos-Electrinos, CF/OU & He-Tritium. WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER! Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 18:49:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19160; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:47:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:47:05 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01bef8d2$e21fad60$0101a8c0 john> From: "John Logajan" To: References: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> Subject: Re: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:47:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEF8A8.F7B6D060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"w9-pE1.0.Ih4.Pw6rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30106 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEF8A8.F7B6D060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark Goldes wrote: > does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised > performance or anything remotely close. >=20 > It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy > storage. >=20 > The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really = solid > work. >=20 > Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real > experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most = welcome. Someone who might have some experimental (as well as theoretical) insight into the EST is Paul Koloc, who's Plasmak is a more sophisitcated version of EST, with an additional external=20 field. (My web page, which I haven't updated in ages, has some stuff on Koloc's design. It's still at http://www.skypoint.com/members/jlogajan but it might be going away when I completly switch over to the cable modem provider (MediaOne.)) --=20 - John Logajan -- jlogajan yahoo.com -- 651-633-8918 - - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEF8A8.F7B6D060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark Goldes wrote:
> does not offer much = optimism that it=20 can actually achieve the promised
> performance or anything = remotely=20 close.
>
> It would be nice to see evidence of long runs = and really=20 useful energy
> storage.
>
> The paper strikes both = reviewers=20 as heavy on hype and light on really solid
> work.
> =
>=20 Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but = real
>=20 experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most=20 welcome.
 
Someone who might have some = experimental=20 (as well as theoretical)
insight into the EST is = Paul Koloc,=20 who's Plasmak is a more
sophisitcated version of = EST, with an=20 additional external
field.  (My web = page, which I=20 haven't updated in ages,
has some stuff on Koloc's = design.  It's still at
http://www.skypoint.com= /members/jlogajan =20 but it might
be going away when I = completly switch=20 over to the cable
modem provider=20 (MediaOne.))
--
 - John Logajan -- = jlogajan@yahoo.com  --  = 651-633-8918 -
 - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) = 55112=20 USA -
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEF8A8.F7B6D060-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 18:52:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA20889; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:51:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:51:15 -0700 Message-ID: <005601bef8db$6a5da1c0$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Fast Pyrolysis Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:47:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"lmQzP3.0.H65.I-6rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30107 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Drag a toothpick or matchstick against a metal heated to a red to cherry-red temperature. It will either leave a trail of combustible liquid or flash into a flame, mostly ethylene gas C2H4. My dad did this using a red-hot stove poker to "drill" holes in wood, back in the 30s and 40s. Your DoE Dollar$ at work. :-) Let's see; an ethylene powered IC engine running a red-hot buzz-saw, while you push a log against the side of it. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 19:58:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA02372; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:57:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:57:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990906230056.00b253c0 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 23:00:56 -0700 To: Mark Goldes From: Quinney Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WCFiB.0.ta.1y7rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30108 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mark, and All; Sorry about all the cross posting. This will be the last of that. At 01:05 PM 09/06/99 -0400, you wrote: > >A review of the Seward paper both here and by a well respected researcher >that many of you know and who would probably prefer that his name not be >used, does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised >performance or anything remotely close. > I have so far spoken with only 2 scientists [both respected researchers] about this, and one of them (on Vortex) does completely agree with you. The other one is also doubtful about the high claims but he is also displaying a sort-of optimistic curiosity. >It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy >storage. I agree. To-date, they have reported only a 600 ms duration with the ~1 cm. diameter plasma toroids. I must assume that their higher energy, larger diameter scale-ups will result in longer durations. > >The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really solid >work. Are you referring to your review of the 26 page NIAC CP 98-01 Final Report from Clint Seward, (yes-- some hyping there from the inventor.) or to the 80 page report from Dr Chen and Dr Temkin of the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center? I have not yet read that 80 page report. I expect to see some kind of meat in it. > >Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real >experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most welcome. > >Mark Goldes I completely agree with that, Mark and that's why I'm drawing attention to this. Seward is keeping the process as proprietary, but I somehow doubt that these plasma rings are really all that difficult to replicate. I may have been taken in with some of his alleged hype-- but I have concluded that stable plasmas of the toroid configuration can be made in the lab and Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. has been seriously researching them as energy storage devices. To-date he has received 4 patents. He has also received funding from several government agencies, including NASA. Yes-- the ~1 cm plasma toroid reportedly lasts only up to 600 ms. but a 2.5 cm toroid is presently being attempted and they really seem to believe that it can be scaled up. They've certainly convinced the scientists working for the organizations who are funding them. The rewards of a plasma storage ring could be quite useful. I wonder if some of us could not attempt to build one of these stable plasma toroids in a vacuum jar in a microwave just for fun. Forget the 1500 Amp, 500 Volt batteries-- a capacitive discharge arc, resulting from an exploding toroid [poloid?] coil could create the high Tesla magnetic field necessary for initiation AND the material for the plasma. A video camera can record the results. We could have a contest to see who could achieve the longest stable toroid shaped plasmas. Those of us who enjoyed making the so-called "ball lightnings" in our microwaves or the "smoke ring" generators with old coffee cans would enjoy these kinds of experiments. I managed to set mine on fire. The edge of "Dennis" has just arrived up here in Toronto, and the lightnings are flashing. Best Colin Quinney From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 20:55:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18919; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:54:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:54:24 -0700 Message-ID: <390334025.936676461322.JavaMail.root web02.pub01> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:54:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Goldes To: Quinney Subject: RE: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 207.44.219.219 Resent-Message-ID: <"xEv5f2.0.Vd4.mn8rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30109 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------Original Message------ From: Quinney To: Mark Goldes Sent: September 7, 1999 6:00:56 AM GMT Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Hi Mark, and All; Sorry about all the cross posting. This will be the last of that. At 01:05 PM 09/06/99 -0400, you wrote: > >A review of the Seward paper both here and by a well respected researcher >that many of you know and who would probably prefer that his name not be >used, does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised >performance or anything remotely close. > I have so far spoken with only 2 scientists [both respected researchers] about this, and one of them (on Vortex) does completely agree with you. The other one is also doubtful about the high claims but he is also displaying a sort-of optimistic curiosity. >It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy >storage. I agree. To-date, they have reported only a 600 ms duration with the ~1 cm. diameter plasma toroids. I must assume that their higher energy, larger diameter scale-ups will result in longer durations. > >The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really solid >work. Are you referring to your review of the 26 page NIAC CP 98-01 Final Report from Clint Seward, (yes-- some hyping there from the inventor.) or to the 80 page report from Dr Chen and Dr Temkin of the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center? I have not yet read that 80 page report. I expect to see some kind of meat in it. > >Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real >experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most welcome. > >Mark Goldes I completely agree with that, Mark and that's why I'm drawing attention to this. Seward is keeping the process as proprietary, but I somehow doubt that these plasma rings are really all that difficult to replicate. I may have been taken in with some of his alleged hype-- but I have concluded that stable plasmas of the toroid configuration can be made in the lab and Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. has been seriously researching them as energy storage devices. To-date he has received 4 patents. He has also received funding from several government agencies, including NASA. Yes-- the ~1 cm plasma toroid reportedly lasts only up to 600 ms. but a 2.5 cm toroid is presently being attempted and they really seem to believe that it can be scaled up. They've certainly convinced the scientists working for the organizations who are funding them. The rewards of a plasma storage ring could be quite useful. I wonder if some of us could not attempt to build one of these stable plasma toroids in a vacuum jar in a microwave just for fun. Forget the 1500 Amp, 500 Volt batteries-- a capacitive discharge arc, resulting from an exploding toroid [poloid?] coil could create the high Tesla magnetic field necessary for initiation AND the material for the plasma. A video camera can record the results. We could have a contest to see who could achieve the longest stable toroid shaped plasmas. Those of us who enjoyed making the so-called "ball lightnings" in our microwaves or the "smoke ring" generators with old coffee cans would enjoy these kinds of experiments. I managed to set mine on fire. The edge of "Dennis" has just arrived up here in Toronto, and the lightnings are flashing. Best Colin Quinney Colin and Vo, Inventors rarely disbelieve what they are attempting cannot be accomplished. On balance, that's undoubtedly a good thing! These claims must be proven experimentally. It is of much less importance what theoreticians may believe. Meat consists of replicable experiments - not theory. As an examplke, consider that there are more than 50 theories competing to explain superconductivity in metal oxides. The only area of complete agreement is that they do indeed superconduct. Good luck to all who attempt the experiments... Mark Goldes __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 21:00:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20604; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:59:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:59:51 -0700 Message-ID: <19990907040007.2040.rocketmail web135.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:00:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ZeZpl2.0.s15.ss8rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30110 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I read the Seward report at http://www.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/9801Final/SewardFinal.pdf (not at ...HawkFinal.pdf as originally posted). I have to agree that there is almost no useful information in the report, just claims of what has been done and of what will come. It's all proprietary, so no information is given. I wouldn't take the reports by the two MIT professors too seriously, unless we can read them. But their reports are not available. The brief sentence fragments quoted in Seward's report could well be taken out of context. As a plasma physicist, I do not see how Seward's concept can be in equilibrium, much less stable equilibrium. But it's possible I'm missing an important point. Seward's explanation is so incomplete that the reader has to interpolate everything important. Also, if I understand his parameters, microwaves will be reflected from this plasma with little absorbtion. They will not heat it. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 21:30:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA28035; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:29:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:29:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990906232624.0096d3f0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 23:26:24 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. In-Reply-To: <19990907040007.2040.rocketmail web135.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"FIX7y2.0.zr6.EI9rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30111 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:00 PM 9/6/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: >As a plasma physicist, I do not see how Seward's concept can be in >equilibrium, much less stable equilibrium. But it's possible I'm missing an >important point. Seward's explanation is so incomplete that the reader has to >interpolate everything important. Good. I was beginning to wonder if I was just missing the obvious. It's easy to see why the electrons would be forced out of the toroidal volume they enclose but what keeps them from flying away from the toroid in more-or-less straight lines? Let's see....consider one electron that starts to stray outward away from the surface of the toriod. Once it has moved clear of its naeighbors, the B that it creates is able to interact with ALL the other electrons near it which haven't strayed yet....the result would normally be thought of as a force pulling all the other electrons outward...but Newton assured us that every force has an equal and opposite reaction so the errant electron would be forced back into the toroidal surface, no? Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 6 21:52:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA00902; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:51:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:51:30 -0700 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L eskimo.com Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:49:17 -0700 Subject: (off topic) NSA Builds Security Access Into Windows Message-ID: <19990906.204926.-351147.0.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-6,8-27,29,31-33,35,37-38,40,42-44,46,48-49,51,53-55,57,59,61,63,65,67,69-71,73,75,77,79,81-83,85,87,89-90,92,94-97,99-101,103-105,107-111,113,115,117-118,120,122-124,126,128,130,132-135,137,139,141-143,145,147,149-151,153,155-1 56,158-160,162-164,166,168,170,172,174-199,201,203-205,207-209,211,213,215-218,220,222-227,229-231,233-235,237-239,241,243,245-249,251-253,255,257-259,261-265,267,269,271-273,275-276,278-279,281-283,285,287,289-290,292-294,296-301,303,305,307-312,314,316- 317,319,321-323,325-328,330-333,335,337-340,342-354,356,358-360,362,364,366-368,370,372,374-376,378,380-382,384,386,388,390-391,393-395,397-404,406,408-411,413-416,418-419,421-425,427-430 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tom Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"5yKpT3.0.gD.Hd9rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30112 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Pretty sneaky, eh ? By the way, if your interested in trying to preserve what vestiges of privacy and freedom we have left, you might consider subscribing to the "Scan This News" list. I think this may be of interest to energy researchers since they are probably carefully monitored by big brother. Tim ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 9/4/99 [Three articles on Microsoft Windows hidden government-access keys] ====================================================================== NSA Builds Security Access Into Windows http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19990903S0014 (09/03/99 By Duncan Campbell, TechWeb A careless mistake by Microsoft programmers has shown that special access codes for use by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) have been secretly built into ALL VERSIONS OF THE WINDOWS OPERATING SYSTEM. Computer-security specialists have been aware for two years that unusual features are contained inside a standard Windows driver used for security and encryption functions. The driver, called ADVAPI.DLL, enables and controls a range of security functions including the Microsoft Cryptographic API (MS-CAPI). In particular, it authenticates modules signed by Microsoft, letting them run without user intervention. At last year's Crypto 98 conference, British cryptography specialist Nicko van Someren said he had disassembled the driver and found it contained two different keys. One was used by Microsoft to control the cryptographic functions enabled in Windows, in compliance with U.S. export regulations. But the reason for building in a second key, or who owned it, remained a mystery. Now, a North Carolina security company has come up with conclusive evidence the second key belongs to the NSA. Like van Someren, Andrew Fernandez, chief scientist with Cryptonym of Morrisville, North Carolina, had been probing the presence and significance of the two keys. Then he checked the latest Service Pack release for Windows NT4, Service Pack 5. He found Microsoft's developers had failed to remove or "strip" the debugging symbols used to test this software before they released it. Inside the code were the labels for the two keys. One was called "KEY." The other was called "NSAKEY." Fernandez reported his re-discovery of the two CAPI keys, and their secret meaning, to the "Advances in Cryptology, Crypto'99" conference held in Santa Barbara. According to those present at the conference, Windows developers attending the conference did not deny the "NSA" key was built into their software. But they refused to talk about what the key did, or why it had been put there without users' knowledge. But according to two witnesses attending the conference, even Microsoft's top crypto programmers were stunned to learn that the version of ADVAPI.DLL shipping with Windows 2000 contains not two, but three keys. Brian LaMachia, head of CAPI development at Microsoft was "stunned" to learn of these discoveries, by outsiders. This discovery, by van Someren, was based on advance search methods which test and report on the "entropy" of programming code. Within Microsoft, access to Windows source code is said to be highly compartmentalized, making it easy for modifications to be inserted without the knowledge of even the respective product managers. No researchers have yet discovered a programming module which signs itself with the NSA key. Researchers are divided about whether it might be intended to let U.S. government users of Windows run classified cryptosystems on their machines or whether it is intended to open up anyone's and everyone's Windows computer to intelligence gathering techniques deployed by the NSA's burgeoning corps of "information warriors." According to Fernandez of Cryptonym, the result of having the secret key inside your Windows operating system "is that it is tremendously easier for the NSA to load unauthorized security services on all copies of Microsoft Windows, and once these security services are loaded, they can effectively compromise your entire operating system". The NSA key is contained inside all versions of Windows from Windows 95 OSR2 onward. "For non-American IT managers relying on WinNT to operate highly secure data centers, this find is worrying," he added. "The U.S government is currently making it as difficult as possible for 'strong' crypto to be used outside of the U.S. That they have also installed a cryptographic back-door in the world's most abundant operating system should send a strong message to foreign IT managers. "How is an IT manager to feel when they learn that in every copy of Windows sold, Microsoft has installed a 'back door' for the NSA -- making it orders of magnitude easier for the U.S. government to access your computer?" he said. Van Someren said he felt the primary purpose of the NSA key might be for legitimate U.S. government use. But he said there cannot be a legitimate explanation for the third key in Windows 2000 CAPI. "It looks more fishy," he said on Friday. Fernandez said he believed the NSA's built-in loophole could be turned round against the snoopers. The NSA key inside CAPI could be replaced by your own key, and used to sign cryptographic security modules from overseas or unauthorized third parties, unapproved by Microsoft or the NSA. This is exactly what the U.S. government has been trying to prevent. A demonstration "how to do it" program that replaces the NSA key can be found on Cryptonym's website. According to one leading U.S. cryptographer, the IT world should be thankful the subversion of Windows by NSA has come to light before the arrival of CPUs that handle encrypted instruction sets. These would make the type of discoveries made this month impossible. "Had the next-generation CPUs with encrypted instruction sets already been deployed, we would have never found out about NSAKEY," he said. ------------------------------------------------------ See also "Microsoft, the NSA, and You" posted at http://www.cryptonym.com/hottopics/msft-nsa.html ------------------------------------------------------ ====================================================== -----Original Message----- From: believer telepath.com Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 Subject: More on NSA Key: "Mysterious Component" Source: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/09/biztech/articles/04soft.html September 4, 1999 A Mysterious Component Roils Microsoft By JOHN MARKOFF SAN FRANCISCO -- A cryptographer for a Canadian software firm, dissecting a piece of Microsoft security software, made an unexpected find: an element in the Windows operating system labeled "NSAKey." When his discovery was made known on his company's Web site Friday, it set off a firestorm of Orwellian visions in Internet discussion groups. Was the buried software component, as the cryptographer surmised, a Trojan horse that gave the National Security Agency a hidden back door into the world's computers? Or was it merely a Microsoft programmer's remarkably bad choice of language in a software system designed to protect electronic communications and commerce? Microsoft executives insisted that there was no Big Brother feature in the software. "The big answer is that these charges are completely false," said Scott Culp, a security product manager at Microsoft. And the National Security Agency, which gathers electronic signal intelligence worldwide and is responsible for the security of the Government's computers, issued a terse three-sentence news release distancing itself from the controversy, saying, "Questions about specific products should be addressed to the company." Microsoft officials acknowledged that the episode was in any case a black eye for the world's largest software publisher. "We're going to pay and pay and pay for this," said one of the company's security experts, who spoke on the grounds that he not be identified. In recent months Microsoft has become a lightning rod for criticism of its products' security and has had to deal with several gaffes, including the discovery last week of a security flaw that exposed the e-mail of users of its Hotmail service. The latest uproar was set off by Andrew Fernandes, a mathematician in Research Triangle Park, N.C., who is chief scientist of the Cryptonym Corporation, a small Canadian software firm that is developing computer security products. Fernandes first presented his findings at a technical meeting last month in Southern California, but word did not spread more broadly until today, when a news release was posted on the Cryptonym Web site. In a telephone interview, Fernandes said he had made his discovery while exploring and trying to replicate the security software in Microsoft's Windows and Windows NT operating systems. The operating systems make use of a key -- a large number -- to authenticate software components, providing confidence that a component is correctly identified and has not been tampered with. For example, when new encryption functions are added for security, the key verifies that they comply with Government regulations. Cryptographers had previously noted the existence of a second key whose use they could not account for. What Fernandes found in the program was an identifying tag, disguised in earlier versions. And the label was "NSAKey." The discovery shocked him, Fernandes said, adding, "It doesn't make any sense why they would put in a second key." He concluded that the key represented a serious security flaw that would leave Microsoft's operating system vulnerable to intrusion. "The result is that it is tremendously easier for the N.S.A. to load unauthorized security services on all copies of Microsoft Windows, and once these security services are loaded, they can effectively compromise your entire operating system," his news release asserted. But at Microsoft, Culp said the key labeled NSAKey was a backup permitting Microsoft to authenticate encryption components if the first key was damaged. And he said the name was simply unfortunate. Because the key insures compliance with Federal export laws, and the National Security Agency is the authority responsible for reviewing software and hardware products intended for foreign use, the component has been referred to colloquially at Microsoft as the "NSA key," he said. But Culp insisted that the key was not shared with any outside party, including the N.S.A. "We protect it with dobermans and barbed wire," he said. "Conspiracy theorists are worked up about this, but real life is more boring." Security and privacy experts were generally skeptical about the notion that Microsoft was cooperating with the nation's electronic intelligence agency. Microsoft has vocally opposed proposals by law-enforcement and intelligence agencies that would give them electronic back doors to monitor computer data. Some security experts said that even if there was no sinister explanation for the NSAKey, Microsoft should not add components to its security software system without publicly identifying them. "They've debased their currency once again by not disclosing this," said Mark Seiden, chief consultant for the information security group Kroll-Ogara. Microsoft executives said there had been no reason to publicize the backup key. "It was not something that anyone had expressed any interest in," Culp said. And in any case, the Big Brother that Fernandes said he had discovered turned out to have an Achilles heel. He said he had been able to develop a small program that strips out the second key. Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company ======================================== Crypto expert: Microsoft products leave door open to NSA http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9909/03/windows.nsa/ September 3, 1999 (CNN) -- A cryptography expert says that Microsoft operating systems include a back door that allows the National Security Agency to enter systems using one of the operating system versions. The chief scientist at an Internet security company reported the flaw at a recent conference in Santa Barbara where he discussed a "key" entrance into the cryptographic standard used in Microsoft Windows products. That includes Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT4 and Windows2000. "It turns out that there are really two keys used by Windows; the first belongs to Microsoft, and it allows them to securely load (the cryptography services)," said Andrew Fernandes in a press release. Fernandes works for Cryptonym, a company based in Ontario. The press release states "the second belongs to the NSA. That means that the NSA can also securely load (the services) on your machine, and without your authorization." The discovery "highly suggests" that the NSA has a key it could use to enter encrypted items on anybody's Windows operating system, said Ian Goldberg, chief scientist at Zero-Knowledge Systems. Goldberg was among a few dozen people in the audience at the conference when Fernandes dropped his bomb. The session occurred just before midnight so no one saw it coming, he said, but the audience was shocked. "If you're trying to keep messages private, it's possible that they are not as private as you thought they were," Goldberg said. Zero-Knowledge Systems is about to release a security product built specially to make such security flaws impossible, he said. Microsoft was not immediately available for comment. It is unclear why or if Microsoft cooperated with the NSA on the key to its "CryptoAPI," the standard interface to its cryptography services, Goldberg said. [end forwarded articles] ======================================================================= Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ======================================================================= Reply to: ======================================================================= To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ======================================================================= From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 02:03:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07921; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:01:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:01:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:01:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: The Altruism Virus Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XiLfV.0.Xx1.0IDrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30113 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WARNING! If you read this message you will be meta-infected by the Altruism Memetic Plague, and you will be able to meta-infect others. Note that if you help a needy person (in the way that the virus directs) only then will you trigger an *actual* infection. I will give you this (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) but you must agree to become indebted. Here's how to repay the debt. As soon as possible but before the end of your life, you must find two or more other parties who are as needy as you yourself are right now, and you must give to them a (college degree, house, career, $1000, etc.) equivalant to the one I am about to give to you, and you must also bind them to this same agreement. The above was passed to me. It's an inverse-chain letter! Or more like a forest fire that will un-burn the entire world. Please pass it along. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 06:58:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA19170; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 06:54:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 06:54:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990906230056.00b253c0 inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RzTUn2.0.Eh4.XaHrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30114 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wher are the references for EST? On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Quinney wrote: > Hi Mark, and All; > > Sorry about all the cross posting. This will be the last of that. > > At 01:05 PM 09/06/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > >A review of the Seward paper both here and by a well respected researcher > >that many of you know and who would probably prefer that his name not be > >used, does not offer much optimism that it can actually achieve the promised > >performance or anything remotely close. > > > > I have so far spoken with only 2 scientists [both respected researchers] > about this, and one of them (on Vortex) does completely agree with you. The > other one is also doubtful about the high claims but he is also displaying > a sort-of optimistic curiosity. > > >It would be nice to see evidence of long runs and really useful energy > >storage. > > I agree. To-date, they have reported only a 600 ms duration with the ~1 cm. > diameter plasma toroids. I must assume that their higher energy, larger > diameter scale-ups will result in longer durations. > > > > >The paper strikes both reviewers as heavy on hype and light on really solid > >work. > > Are you referring to your review of the 26 page NIAC CP 98-01 Final Report > from Clint Seward, (yes-- some hyping there from the inventor.) or to the > 80 page report from Dr Chen and Dr Temkin of the MIT Plasma Science and > Fusion Center? I have not yet read that 80 page report. I expect to see > some kind of meat in it. > > > > >Evidence to the contrary (i.e. emphatically not speculation, but real > >experiments, that can be reproduced by other labs) would be most welcome. > > > >Mark Goldes > > I completely agree with that, Mark and that's why I'm drawing attention to > this. Seward is keeping the process as proprietary, but I somehow doubt > that these plasma rings are really all that difficult to replicate. > > I may have been taken in with some of his alleged hype-- but I have > concluded that stable plasmas of the toroid configuration can be made in > the lab and Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems, Inc. has been seriously > researching them as energy storage devices. To-date he has received 4 > patents. He has also received funding from several government agencies, > including NASA. Yes-- the ~1 cm plasma toroid reportedly lasts only up to > 600 ms. but a 2.5 cm toroid is presently being attempted and they really > seem to believe that it can be scaled up. They've certainly convinced the > scientists working for the organizations who are funding them. > > The rewards of a plasma storage ring could be quite useful. I wonder if > some of us could not attempt to build one of these stable plasma toroids in > a vacuum jar in a microwave just for fun. Forget the 1500 Amp, 500 Volt > batteries-- a capacitive discharge arc, resulting from an exploding toroid > [poloid?] coil could create the high Tesla magnetic field necessary for > initiation AND the material for the plasma. A video camera can record the > results. We could have a contest to see who could achieve the longest > stable toroid shaped plasmas. Those of us who enjoyed making the so-called > "ball lightnings" in our microwaves or the "smoke ring" generators with old > coffee cans would enjoy these kinds of experiments. I managed to set mine > on fire. > > The edge of "Dennis" has just arrived up here in Toronto, and the > lightnings are flashing. > > Best > Colin Quinney > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 11:45:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA10492; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:42:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:42:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:45:56 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Resent-Message-ID: <"4n0Rl3.0.qZ2.4oLrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30115 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm wondering if we are talking about the same paper. I downloaded the .pdf file written by Dr. Hawk at http://www.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/9801Final/HawkFinal.pdf 1. it was 44 pages not 26 2. it talked about a fusion powered rocket motor 3. While the weight to power ratio is great, the motor sounded like something that would work in deep space, not as a lifter from ground level to low earth orbit. Following my second reading of the paper I wrote the following letter: Dear Dr. Hawk; I read your paper. I heard about it on the Vortex-L discussion group where it was presented as an energy storage system involving a plasma torroid, and so your paper's actual contents suprised me. It was an interesting discussion of technology however. My understanding of induced high energy fusion is that the researchers are at about .85 of unity in terms of energy production verses consumption. I assume that comming up with an system for producing a fusion reaction which yeilds more electricity energy than it consumes, is one of the anticipated breaks throughs that you believe will be made over the next 20 years. I am particularly interested in inducing fusion by low energy means. Have you ever heard of the Piantelli patent? It involves the use of enharmonic frequencies to stimulate fusion. I also spend a lot of time reading about other methods of inducing low energy fusion. One class of methods for doing this involves torroidial plasma vortexes TPV's, there are some other very interesting effects which are associated with TPV's, several of which are manifested in the Hutchinson Effect. The diagram, figure 1, that you drew with the various propulsion systems left me puzzled as to what the X and Y axises are. The nuclear powered versions certainly leave chemical propulsion systems far behind. The lines that run diagionally from the X to Y axis, you mention KW / KG, I assume that corresponds to power output against weight. What do the two arrows, the red and blue one represent? If you were going to design a new booster to lift things into low earth orbit, would any of those technologies be applicable? Do I understand correctly that when you get a HTSC into superconducting mode, it will remain that way as long as the magnetic flux remains over 100 Teslas? The rebound effect, or controling the spread of the plasma ball was quite interesting. Given that we are talking about a substance that is similar in temperature to the surface of the sun, keeping it from contacting the wall of the chamber is absolutly critical to keeping the engine in operation. What is your opinion regarding our ability to do that at this time? I have been corresponding with several physicists about producing a plasma vortex. My main question is how to you control it? I found the diagram in figure 5 to be quite interesting. As I understand it, the ability of the exterior magnetic field to penetrate the HTSC cylinder and produce the regions of microflux are critical to producing the field on the interior on the cylinder which enables the rebound effect. If you were going to design a repulsion engine, shouldn't you configure the reactor as a sphere? Perhaps you could wind a spherical coil around the reactor. What, in your opinion, would be the effect on your observations produced by this change in geometry? Thomas Malloy From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 19:09:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23237; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:08:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:08:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990907221203.00dc3de0 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:12:03 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990906230056.00b253c0 inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IXkoQ.0._g5.BKSrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30116 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yo Vo, At 09:59 AM 09/07/99 -0400, JS wrote: > > > Wher are the references for EST? 1./ Chen, C (1999) (80 pages) "Equilibrium and Stability Properties of Cold-Fluid Electron Spiral Toroids." EPS, Inc 42 Washington Drive. Acton Massachusetts 01720. 978-263-3871. March 1999. 2./ ABSTRACT "A revolutionary method has been discovered to store large amounts of energy as magnetic field energy with virtually no mass, using the newly patented electron spiral toroid (EST). On a BMDO contract in February 1998, a Research Scientist at the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center independently confirmed that some EST's will be stable without the need of an external magnetic field; just a small electric field. The EST has large total energy and low mass, potentially resulting in revolutionary advances in space propulsion. An EST is calculated to store 10 12 Joules of magnetic field energy in a containment of 235 kg, replacing a Titan rocket's 700,000 kg of fuel with 32 kg of thruster gas. The potential is for a space transportation vehicle with a cost of $100K vs. $89M for a Titan, reducing the cost of all NASA missions. The EST is a hollow toroid of electrons, all spiraling in parallel paths in a thin outer surface. The EST is charge neutral, being surrounded by ions which provide the small electric field. This makes the EST force free. The parallel paths are current loops, which create a very large internal magnetic field. Microwave energy may be added to raise electrons to 10,000 eV. Propulsion would heat ions without combustion through collisions with the EST surface, ejecting them for thrust. Specific impulse: 143,000 seconds vs. 500 for chemical rockets. The ions are contained by electric fields until ejected; thus protecting mechanical parts. The thrust can be shut off when required. Proof of concept tests have shown EST energy loss rates to be small. This project will develop a concept design of a low cost EST based space propulsion system, and will continue the study of the EST equilibrium and stability." 3./ Patents: Seward, D.C. (1992) US Patent 5175466, 'Fixed Geometry Plasma and Generator'. Seward, D.C. (1996a) US Patent 5589727, 'Energy Storage System.' Seward, D.C., Chen, C., Temkin, R., (1996b) International Patent Application WO 96/38848, 'Energy Storage Device, Published 5 December 1996. Seward, D.C. (1998a) US Patent 5773919 'Electron Spiral Toroid' 4./ Seward, D.C. (1998c) "Propulsion Using the Electron Spiral Toroid" CP420 Space Technology and Applications International Forum-- 1998. DOE CONF -- 980103. The American Institute of Physics. 1-56396-747-2/98. 5./ Other standard physics references to plasma structures, plasma toroid accelerations and compressions, etc., available in the May 31/99 Final Report. 6./ (26 page) Final Report May 31/1999, is available as a pdf file from the following site or by contacting the principals: NASA INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED CONCEPTS NIAC CP 98-01 Title: Low Cost Space Transportation Using a Stable Plasma for Energy Storage Author and Principal Investigator: Clint Seward Electron Power Systems, Inc. 42 Washington Drive Acton, MA 01720 978- 263-3871 E-mail: dcsiii aol.com Best Colin From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 7 19:18:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26915; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:17:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:17:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:21:35 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. In-Reply-To: References: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1nWPW.0.Sa6.8TSrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30117 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:45 PM 09/07/99 -0500, you wrote: >I'm wondering if we are talking about the same paper. > >I downloaded the .pdf file written by Dr. Hawk at >http://www.niac.usra.edu/studies/9801/9801Final/HawkFinal.pdf > >1. it was 44 pages not 26 My apologies. These two NIAC URLs are just fractions of an inch apart on my screen. Try Colin From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 00:53:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA16932; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:52:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:52:48 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Gravimetric/Periodic Table Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 03:59:47 -0400 Message-ID: <19990908075947656.AAA195 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"NaBwD.0.Q84.GNXrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30118 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Ron, > >At one point Dennis Cravens the electric propulsion researcher was trying to >find out what happened to Wallace. You might want to contact him. >Unfortunately I don't have his email. > >Fred Hi Fred, If this is the same Dennis Cravens that worked for ENECO, did work on the Patterson cell, and I think even the Potopov Device then this may be his address. This is from some years back, like maybe 7 or so, but still might be good. The Cravens main residence is a long trailer home at 383 highway 244 (that means at 3.83 miles) and the lab is at 433 highway 244. His home phone number is (505)-682-3384 His lab phone number is (505)-682-3565 His FAX number is (505)-682-3384 As I recall, he was not too enthused with the internet, and didn't have an e-mail. He may have changed his mind by now. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 10:22:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA01636; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:19:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:19:30 -0700 X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-A: pm3-2-dyn34.skagit.fidalgo.net [209.102.74.49] X-Fidalgo-Track-MAIL-B: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00af01befa1d$9174d060$25b6bfd1 w7o9k8> From: "Fred Epps" To: Subject: Re: Gravimetric/Periodic Table Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:11:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"nRC-F2.0.TP.Xgfrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30119 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Knuke, Hopefully Ron will see this and give him a ring. Fred >> >>At one point Dennis Cravens the electric propulsion researcher was trying to >>find out what happened to Wallace. You might want to contact him. >>Unfortunately I don't have his email. >> >>Fred >Hi Fred, > >If this is the same Dennis Cravens that worked for ENECO, did work on the >Patterson cell, and I think even the Potopov Device then this may be his >address. This is from some years back, like maybe 7 or so, but still might >be good. > >The Cravens main residence is a long trailer home >at 383 highway 244 (that means at 3.83 miles) and the lab is at 433 highway >244. > >His home phone number is (505)-682-3384 >His lab phone number is (505)-682-3565 >His FAX number is (505)-682-3384 > >As I recall, he was not too enthused with the internet, and didn't have an >e-mail. He may have changed his mind by now. > >Knuke > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 10:38:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08665; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:37:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:37:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990908133757.007ab950 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:37:57 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Gravimetric/Periodic Table In-Reply-To: <19990908075947656.AAA195 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"P0GC3.0.G72.4xfrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30120 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Knuke wrote: >As I recall, he was not too enthused with the internet, and didn't have an >e-mail. He may have changed his mind by now. Last I heard, his e-mail address was: Dennis wazoo.com - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 11:09:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17888; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:02:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:02:40 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:14:27 -0600 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"lJ9Yj2.0.cL4.sIgrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30121 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. THE UNIFIED, GYROSCOPIC MECHANICAL FIELD THEORY OF JOSEPH NEWMAN IS ALSO CORRECT. The following is the truthful statements of myself, Milton Everett, a Mechanical Engineer. At the time that I met Joseph Newman, I was working for the Mississippi Department of Energy. I first visited Joseph Newman's home in Mississippi for the purpose of proving him wrong. Instead, not only myself, but I also witnessed numerous other credible scientific individuals verify his work. Like myself, these individuals initially disbelieved the technology and then listened to Joseph Newman's Mechanical Unified Field Theory. They then tested several crude prototypes with oscilloscopes, torque tests, heat tests while comparing the performance of Joseph Newman's Motor/Generator to conventional Motors. All of these scientific individuals then signed Affidavits THAT JOSEPH NEWMAN'S INVENTION WORKS AND THAT HIS MECHANICAL THEORY OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE WAS ALSO CORRECT. To read some of these credible and brave scientific individuals' comments, see pages 22-48, 85-87, 113-114, 171-177, 213-216, and 227-237 of Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN. The book itself documents why we all so endorsed Joseph Newman's Life Work. I was so impressed with Joseph Newman and his Mechanical Field Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle that I influenced the premier electrical engineer of Mississippi State University to travel with me to Joseph Newman's home. After considerable testing of his Motors, he stated that: "Joseph Newman's Motors are 200% efficient." I, myself, stated on a national CBS Evening News broadcast that, "Einstein would have to take a back seat to Joseph Newman." I have also witnessed the terrible manner in which Joseph Newman has been treated by various agencies of our Federal Government and special interests in industry. I have now tested his Production Prototype located in the Phoenix area where I am now retired. I have not written details of testing as I have for years witnessed the denial by others (who did not test Joseph Newman's Motor) of my test and those of numerous other credible scientific individuals. But I do challenge all thinking individuals to come and hear for themselves Joseph Newman's Mechanical Gyroscopic Explanation of many different previously-unexplained phenomena in science. I also challenge such individuals to test his beneficial Energy Invention for themselves or, at the very least, obtain his fundamental book and do as he asks: MASTER IT. To attack a new technology without understanding it or testing it for yourself is not a scientific approach and is also dishonest. I will now provide an eye-opening example of the significance of Joseph Newman's technology: Unnecessary friction losses found in the relatively-crude, hand-built Production Motor are tremendously greater than the Input Power at 100 volts which operates the Newman Motor without any torque load on the Motor's shaft. We are talking about a magnitude of 1200% more unnecessary friction losses than Input Power. Of course, those unnecessary friction losses can easily be removed on the final, machine-built Production Motors. As any mechanical engineer is taught in the first years of Mechanics, such astounding results are impossible by conventional teachings. Yet these results occur exactly as predicted by Joseph Newman many years earlier when he originally formulated his Theory of the Gyroscopic Particle and Mechanical Unified Field Theory. The mechanical rightness of his Theory should be realized by anyone who witnesses a 400-pound Motor operating on ONLY 2 watts of Input Power! As a person of mechanical training and years of technical service, it is with great sincerity that I tell the people of this world that Joseph Newman's Energy Machine will greatly benefit everyone on this planet. Through a simple mechanical attachment, his Production Motors can easily be connected to all home and industrial devices to operate them at a mere fraction of the present cost. What Joseph Newman has innovated is totally opposite to conventional mechanical teachings with respect to motorized devices. Such devices use more and more power as such conventional motors become larger. With Joseph Newman's revolutionary mechanical technology, as his motors become larger they produce more and more power and use LESS AND LESS POWER! Now consider the mass production of this revolutionary technology with its phenomenal and beneficial impact on behalf of all humanity. For all technical individuals who are sensitive to the fact that Einstein's mathematical work was criticized and Einstein himself belittled for years by his contemporaries of the time, such individuals now realize that the scientific community now takes very seriously every word written by Einstein. Joseph Newman and his life's work has been treated in a similar fashion --- except more so. The history of scientific breakthroughs proves that such treatment was the norm, not the exception. As we enter the 21st century, is this any way for humanity and those individuals who claim to be scientists wish to treat our most beneficial and creative individuals? I ask for all scientific individuals and people throughout the world to support Joseph Newman. By virtue of extensive tests conducted on his many prototypes over the years (as well as the recent solar panel tests) his Production Motor is CLEARLY OVER 100% EFFICIENT. All of which proves that his Motors fundamentally operate on VOLTAGE and not on current or wattage. And they do so in accordance with the 100% conversion of mass into energy according to Einstein's formula, E = mc2. Years ago I publicly stated the extreme importance of Joseph Newman's life work for humanity. I say so again even though I am vilified by those who are not scientifically honest. If you are sensitive to the well-being of humanity as am I, then please support Joseph Newman in his efforts to bring forth mass production of his revolutionary technology. In conclusion, I was and am very pleased that a physicist also employed with a Department of Energy (of a major foreign country) recently summed up the magnitude of Joseph Newman's life work by his statement in essence (referring to Fermi's work in the 1940s): "In comparison, a 400-ton Newman Energy Machine should then be able to sustain a force of 80,000 pounds on its shaft with a power input of less than 477 watts!" This honest physicist was clearly endorsing the magnitude of Joseph Newman's longstanding statement that, "the invention can be made more than 1000% efficient, 1,000,000% efficient, and even greater!" I, and an ever-growing number of other scientific individuals, totally agree. If we all vigorously support Joseph Newman's mass production of his energy invention technology, then we will quickly bring forth a new, non-polluting energy source for the forthcoming arrival of the 21st century. Let's bring in the 21st century by supporting Joseph Newman so that mass production will be in full operation by New Year's Eve, 1999. What better hope for a better 21st century for all humanity. [Signed] Milton Everett Mechanical Engineer (Retired) Phoenix, Arizona NOTARIZED (9/7/99) ____________________ www.josephnewman.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 14:35:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25608; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:32:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:32:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199909082132.RAA19167 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:27:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6srF73.0.uF6.yNjrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30122 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Instead, not only myself, but I also witnessed numerous other credible > scientific individuals verify his work. Then why can't we, the public, view and test hands-on, the Mr. Newman's motors? If we were allowed to test them ourselves, and the rest of the public allowed to witness these tests, things would likely go much easier for Newman... > All of these scientific individuals then signed Affidavits THAT JOSEPH NEWMAN'S > INVENTION WORKS AND THAT HIS MECHANICAL THEORY OF THE GYROSCOPIC PARTICLE > WAS ALSO CORRECT. Careful there. The simple fact that his motor works (let's assume here that it does) is NOT confirmation of a theory. For instance, if I say that if pollution from the mill increased, we would see more fish deaths, and then fish deaths increased, this does not prove that the mill is making more pollution. Concluding that Newman's theory is correct based on just this one experiment is a logical fallacy. > To read some of these credible and brave scientific individuals' > comments, see pages 22-48, 85-87, 113-114, 171-177, 213-216, and 227-237 of > Joseph Newman's fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN. The > book itself documents why we all so endorsed Joseph Newman's Life Work. Perhaps it would be better if we did not have to purchase a book to know who these individuals are, and read their comments? If you want to make money, you must first prove yourself. > I, myself, stated on a national CBS Evening News broadcast that, > "Einstein would have to take a back seat to Joseph Newman." Einstein, however, openly published his research. The same can not be said for Mr. Newman. > I have also witnessed the terrible manner in which Joseph Newman has > been treated by various agencies of our Federal Government and special > interests in industry. I have no doubt that Mr. Newman has been harassed by the scientific community, and maybe even the government. But this is no excuse for not providing a well-executed demonstration of overunity operation to the public. The use of wrong instruments, avoiding simple tests, accusations of being people out to 'steal his life's work' to people who are skeptical...need I go on? > I also challenge such individuals to test his beneficial Energy Invention for themselves or, at > the very least, obtain his fundamental book and do as he asks: MASTER IT. We have not been given the opportunity to test the device! I challenge Mr. Newman to allow this to happen. > To attack a new technology without understanding it or testing it for > yourself is not a scientific approach and is also dishonest. Agreed. But to "present" a new technology, and not allow it to be tested is just as bad. > The mechanical rightness of his Theory should be realized by anyone who > witnesses a 400-pound Motor operating on ONLY 2 watts of Input Power! Then why have we not been allowed to test the wattage input, and mechanical output? > As a person of mechanical training and years of technical service, it is > with great sincerity that I tell the people of this world that Joseph > Newman's Energy Machine will greatly benefit everyone on this planet. That is great. But do tell, when can we test this invention, and in doing so open the technology up to the world? Assuming of course that it does work. > Through a simple mechanical attachment, his Production Motors can easily > be connected to all home and industrial devices to operate them at a mere > fraction of the present cost. Through simple tests it could be confirmed/denied that it is indeed overunity. I assure Mr. Newman that he would have a much easier path to follow if he would allow these tests. > Now consider the mass production of this revolutionary technology with > its phenomenal and beneficial impact on behalf of all humanity. For all > technical individuals who are sensitive to the fact that Einstein's > mathematical work was criticized and Einstein himself belittled for years > by his contemporaries of the time, such individuals now realize that the > scientific community now takes very seriously every word written by > Einstein. Einstein published his data, and the scientific community then proceeded to test his theory critically. The results agreed, and Einstein's work was generally accepted. Newman has something of an advantage: he is performing an experiment, and could thus publish his results. A theory is refutable, but well conducted experiments are not. However, he has chosen not to allow confirmation. Why? > In conclusion, I was and am very pleased that a physicist also employed > with a Department of Energy (of a major foreign country) recently summed up > the magnitude of Joseph Newman's life work by his statement in essence > (referring to Fermi's work in the 1940s): Who? Why does this person remain anonymous? > "In comparison, a 400-ton Newman Energy Machine should then be able to > sustain a force of 80,000 pounds on its shaft with a power input of less > than 477 watts!" > > This honest physicist was clearly endorsing the magnitude of Joseph > Newman's longstanding statement that, "the invention can be made more than > 1000% efficient, 1,000,000% efficient, and even greater!" This honest physicists words are but chaff compared to being allowed to publicly test Newman's device. They prove nothing. I rarely ever post to these discussion groups...I prefer to listen quietly and gather information. This time, I had to say something. Don't take this as an insult. I am not trying to undermine science and the discovery of things that don't fit our current paradigm of understanding. I myself perform many experiments, one group of which are showing results that according to current theory, simply should not happen. However, I am not going to make claims yet, as I have not covered all of my bases to my satisfaction. If and when I do make claims, I will be sure to include information necessary to prove what I say. I ask that Newman does the same. Regards, Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 17:31:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16262; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:28:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:28:33 -0700 Message-ID: <19990909002924.27712.rocketmail web116.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:29:24 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: Wallace/Superconductivity/Stirniman To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"4h8wX2.0.-z3.mylrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30123 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those who are interested in the article that appeared in Temple University s FRONTIER PRESPECTIVES on the work of HW Wallace in relation to curents developments in gravitational shielding with respect to HiTC materials the following link is provided: http://www.padrak.com/agn/WALLACE.html Web page is hosted by Dr Patrick Bailey. Best, Ron KIta __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 20:51:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12224; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:48:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:48:14 -0700 Message-ID: <37D72865.6477 ca-ois.com> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:24:21 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"L2SEg2.0.s-2.-tort" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30124 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > AFFIDAVIT: > THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. > > THE UNIFIED, GYROSCOPIC MECHANICAL FIELD THEORY > OF JOSEPH NEWMAN IS ALSO CORRECT. > and so on snipped... Is this supposed to be proof, intended to settle some ligering doubts somehow? Doubts still linger, sorry... When is Newman going to write something decribing or depicting the details of an experimental arrangement, the data therefrom, the type and model numbers of the measurement equipment used, the control experiment and a reasonable attampt to prove that the device DOESN"T work? I've worked in several different labs on lots of different experimemts, and none of the procedures required by any of these labs involved getting outside engineeers from Mississippi to look at or sign anything. The proof required was simply in the procedure as described, above. If Newman is so interested in benefitting humanity, why does he not proceed in the manner described above and publish the resulting document right here, on this forum, or elswhere equally accessible to "Humanity", like Usenet or a website or something? Holding out for the big bucks, is he? Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 21:20:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA21631; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:19:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:19:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:25:52 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-reply-to: X-Sender: kurtz imap2.asu.edu (Unverified) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VKT3d.0.vH5.ALprt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30125 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:14 PM 9/8/99 -0600, you wrote: > AFFIDAVIT: > THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS. > If he wants to benefit society by going into mass production, all he has to do is go camp out in Scott's lab and watch while Scott confirms the over unity operation and he will have all the funding he needs. That offer has been on the table for at least a year hasn't it? I believe Scott even offered to supply the cot if I remember correctly. --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 21:39:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA26714; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:38:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:38:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:37:05 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IJ9Lx.0.JX6.Idprt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30126 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:25 PM 9/8/99 -0700, Lynn Kurtz wrote: >If he wants to benefit society by going into mass production, all he has to >do is go camp out in Scott's lab and watch while Scott confirms the over >unity operation and he will have all the funding he needs. That offer has >been on the table for at least a year hasn't it? I believe Scott even >offered to supply the cot if I remember correctly. That offer stands for Joe Newman and any other inventor who wants to bring a purportedly working device to our lab. The tests will be performed free of charge without obligation to the inventor. In the case of a successful outcome, we would make every effort to work out a cooperative development agreement that would ultimately involve full-scale commercialization. Personally, I would consider sucb an event the most exciting opportunity in my life. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 21:55:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31057; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:54:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:54:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37D73F74.A864107E ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:02:44 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: New Saturna Technologies web address Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h6akC2.0.Bb7.irprt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30127 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: << http://www.rsrch.com/saturna>> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 8 23:17:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA21486; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:12:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:12:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> References: <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:10:29 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"Bkj6F2.0.ZF5.M_qrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30128 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 09:25 PM 9/8/99 -0700, Lynn Kurtz wrote: > >>If he wants to benefit society by going into mass production, all he has to >>do is go camp out in Scott's lab and watch while Scott confirms the over >>unity operation and he will have all the funding he needs. That offer has >>been on the table for at least a year hasn't it? I believe Scott even >>offered to supply the cot if I remember correctly. > >That offer stands for Joe Newman and any other inventor who wants to bring >a purportedly working device to our lab. The tests will be performed free >of charge without obligation to the inventor. In the case of a successful >outcome, we would make every effort to work out a cooperative development >agreement that would ultimately involve full-scale commercialization. >Personally, I would consider sucb an event the most exciting opportunity in >my life. ***{As a matter of curiosity, why haven't you followed the detailed instructions on J.L. Naudin's website, built a Newman motor, and checked it out yourself? Since Newman has repeatedly touted Naudin's results as a proof of his concept, the implication is that Naudin has built a legitimate Newman motor, and so it would seem that if you follow Naudin's plans and test the resulting motor, you should be able to reach a definitive conclusion, right? Indeed, I would think you would prefer to go by that route, since the headaches associated with letting Newman sleep on a cot in your lab and look over your shoulder during testing would probably be greater than the headaches caused by building a motor yourself. If this reasoning is incorrect, why is it incorrect? --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >Scott Little >EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 >512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) >little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 01:09:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA24991; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:05:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:05:42 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Mini-Romag generator Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:05:01 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19990906135821.30836.qmail hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA24963 Resent-Message-ID: <"iOa_B1.0.O66.Lfsrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30129 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:26:53 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: [snip] >***{If these instructions were based on an actual tested device that works >in the real world, rather than on a theory in someone's head, I would >expect to see a photo of an actual device, coupled with experimental data >points. I do not. While his oscilloscope traces suggest that he has >actually built the thing, the writeup leaves me unclear as to how much of >this is opinion and speculation, and how much is fact. --MJ}*** (JLN from http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/delany/256/html/mromexp.htm ): "This is a personal analysis, and this proposal needs to be checked experimentaly, so, today, I can't confirm that this device can work really as Magnetic Energy claims, but some premises encourage me to go further in this way..." Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 04:49:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA22188; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 04:48:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 04:48:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: New Saturna Technologies web address In-Reply-To: <37D73F74.A864107E ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lHpWs1.0.cQ5.Ewvrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30130 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Akira and vo., For those of us who don't have www access all the time, what is this research, please? J On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Akira Kawasaki wrote: > << http://www.rsrch.com/saturna>> > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 05:17:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA27377; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:16:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:16:31 -0700 Message-ID: <012001befac5$444c3960$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: "(Delete)" Subject: Van de Graaff Generators and Light Leptons. Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:13:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEFA8A.73854FE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"XJZ_e1.0.hh6.VKwrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30131 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEFA8A.73854FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Beaty's "Bad Hair Day". :-) http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/vdg.html My Point: When first started the roller "donates" Light Lepton charges collected from the atmosphere (generated from the 50% Infrared,1 to 4 micron, photon energy in the kilowatt/meter^2 Solar insolation) or other IR sources, ie., "heat" such as hot water, Knuke Huffman's or Griggs pumps, the F&P Cell, Case's Cell, Mills' Hydrinos,or the Potapov device etc.. Once this initial electrostatic field is established, regular electrons come into play. IOW, naturally occuring Light Light Leptons may be the "Secret Ingredient" that Scott is looking for, and why I suggested the 500 deg K water heat pipe experiment that can generate the IR Photons-LL Pairs, in situ. At 500 K (~ 25-30 atm pressure) the Ion Product in H2O is about 3 orders of magnitude or 1,000 times as high as it is at room temperature. Regards, Frederick ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEFA8A.73854FE0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="VandeGraaff Generators Construction & Demonstrations.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VandeGraaff Generators Construction & Demonstrations.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/vdg.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/vdg.html Modified=C0501C97C1FABE013D ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEFA8A.73854FE0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 05:48:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA01240; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:45:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:45:42 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Mini-Romag generator Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:45:07 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <=GfXN9aW9LsYNvgBugNUx2RcxQH9 4ax.com> References: <19990906135821.30836.qmail hotmail.com> <3.0.1.32.19990906095315.00f310fc@mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990906095315.00f310fc mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA01216 Resent-Message-ID: <"EMMOs2.0.EJ.slwrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30132 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:53:15 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >http://www.magneticenergy.com > >They've even got a Cold Fusion Motor. The explanation of its operation is >a real gem. [snip] Well if you replace "special magnetism" with "torsion field", does it make any more sense? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 06:08:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA08759; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: tap-l , list physics teaching , sciclub-list@eskimo.com cc: webhead-l eskimo.com Subject: Large neodymiums on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eK3iq2.0.V82.C2xrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30133 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156955963 (Thanks Merlin!) These are 1.44" x 1.24" x .24" arc-shaped magnets. Look carefully at those measurements! Magnets this large would make for very interesting experiments or science demos. However, if you don't know how to handle them, they are an accident waiting to happen. Also, you might encounter trouble trying to ship them (USPO won't ship big magnets, but UPS might consider it.) Note that the instigator at http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnets.html is a small "magnet recycler" company which disassembles all sorts of motors, diskdrives, etc., and sells inexpensive surplus NIB magnets for educators and experimenters. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From owner-tap-l listproc.appstate.edu Thu Sep 9 06:18:12 1999 Received: from listproc.appstate.edu (IDENT:root listproc.appstate.edu [152.10.1.57]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14608; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:18:11 -0700 Received: from listproc.appstate.edu (server localhost [127.0.0.1]) by listproc.appstate.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05767; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:09:07 -0400 Received: from mx1.eskimo.com (mx1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.48]) by listproc.appstate.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05625 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:05:37 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (billb eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA08655; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (billb localhost) by eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA23633; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: tap-l , list physics teaching , sciclub-list@eskimo.com cc: webhead-l eskimo.com Subject: Large neodymiums on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: tap-l listproc.appstate.edu Sender: owner-tap-l listproc.appstate.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.08 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156955963 (Thanks Merlin!) These are 1.44" x 1.24" x .24" arc-shaped magnets. Look carefully at those measurements! Magnets this large would make for very interesting experiments or science demos. However, if you don't know how to handle them, they are an accident waiting to happen. Also, you might encounter trouble trying to ship them (USPO won't ship big magnets, but UPS might consider it.) Note that the instigator at http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnets.html is a small "magnet recycler" company which disassembles all sorts of motors, diskdrives, etc., and sells inexpensive surplus NIB magnets for educators and experimenters. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From webhead-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 06:40:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA19812 for billb eskimo.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:40:05 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:40:05 -0700 X-Envelope-From: atg0317 wt.net Thu Sep 9 06:40:03 1999 Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net ([205.230.159.32]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA19777; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:40:03 -0700 Received: from fs11 (216-119-139-254.ipset19.wt.net [216.119.139.254]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA18931; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:58:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000501befac9$1a072940$b69afea9 fs11> From: "atg0317" To: , "tap-l" , "list physics teaching" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: Large neodymiums on eBay Old-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:42:02 -0500 Organization: N.E.S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: webhead-l Status: RO X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: William Beaty To: tap-l ; list physics teaching ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:05 AM Subject: Large neodymiums on eBay > them, they are an accident waiting to happen. Also, you might encounter > trouble trying to ship them (USPO won't ship big magnets, but UPS might > consider it.) > YES! all so true. After going through typical government PO workers was told shipping of magnets was OK, did not know of any restrictions. Then when attempting to mail same all hell comes into focus. Excuse now is that it affects air navigation and can't allow them on planes. Packages for overseas as (Last Instructed) must be marked "Contains Magnetic Material". Customs now getting into the act, Next expect ATF. Looks like we may return all funds for TMB kits as a slow boat to China does not seem practical for us or the developer. > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 07:28:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03896; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:27:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:27:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990909102740.00797d60 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:27:40 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Brouhaha averted at ACS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CPw0T1.0.jy.3Fyrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30134 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Last month I reported that on Oct. 8 the ACS conference in Ontario, California will have a daylong session devoted mainly to cold fusion. When this news circulated within the ACS, several members took umbrage and threatened to quit the society if such a travesty was allowed. A Nobel laureate who is scheduled to deliver a keynote address had a snit fit and said he would not attend the conference. The invitations and color brochure had already been printed, and it would be unprecedented to force cancellation of a session at this stage. For that matter, as far as I know, it would be unprecedented to force cancellation of a session at any stage. Melvin Miles, who will chair the session and who has published papers on cold fusion in the ACS peer-reviewed journals, said he would resign if it is canceled. Martin Fleischmann, the featured speaker, said he would not back down and we should hold the session in a church if necessary. (One of the originators of the theory of energy conservation was forced to rent space in a church to hold a meeting when the scientific establishment refused to let him lecture. I do not recall who it was. Joule, Clausius?) The decision was bucked up the line to the president of the ACS. Yesterday evening, Scott Chubb called me to say that all is well. The session will be held, the Nobel laureate will attend the conference and give his address. Perhaps the president told him to get a life. Scott also suggested that Akira Kawasaki, who lives in that area, may want to attend and make a video. Akira has done a great job making videos of cold fusion conferences as the expense. I predict that someday his tapes will be worth a fortune. Attached is another copy of the program. - Jed 1999 PACIFIC CONFERENCE on CHEMISTRY and SPECTROSCOPY and the 35th ACS Western Regional Meeting. Friday, October 8. MORNING M. H. Miles, Organizer, Presiding 8:30 - 249. Cold Fusion: Past, Present, and Future. M. Fleischmann 9:20-250. The Present Status of Chemically Assisted Nuclear Reactions. E. K. Storms 9:50-251. Anomalous Heat Production from Hydrogen Saturated Palladium. M.McKubre, F. Tanzella and P. Tripodi 10:20-Break 10:30-252. Thermal and Nuclear Events in a Polarized Pd+D System. An Overview of the Co-Deposition Method. S. Szpak and P.A. Mosier-Boss 11:00-253. Electrolysis of Heavy Water with Titanium Cathodes: Heat Produced and Chemical Analyses of the Cathodes. J. Warner and J. Dash 11:30-254. Theoretical Considerations for 'Cold Fusion' Based upon Co-production of Heat and Tritium. R.T. Bush and M. R. McGovern FRIDAY AFTERNOON - Electrochemistry, Batteries, Fuel Cells M. H. Miles, Organizer, Presiding 1:30-255. Calorimetric Studies of Pd/D20+LiOD/Pt Electrolysis Cells. M. H. Miles 2:00-256. The Impact of SEL Films Upon the Low Temperature Performance of Lithium-Ion Cells. M. C. Smart, B. V. Ratnakumar and S. Surampudi 2:30-257. Development of Low Cost, Low Crossover Polymer Electrolyte Membranes for Direct Methanol Fuel Cells. G. K. S. Prakash, A. Atti, G.A. Olah, S. R. Narayanan, M.C. Smart, T. Valdez, S.Surampudi and V. Pleynet 3:00-Break 3:10-258. Factors Affecting the Performance of Direct Methanol Fuel Cells. T. I. Valdez and S.R. Narayanan 3:40-259. Improved Thermal Batteries Using Molten Nitrate Electrolytes. M. H. Miles From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 08:42:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27560; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:38:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:38:42 -0700 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:45:05 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-reply-to: X-Sender: kurtz imap2.asu.edu (Unverified) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Resent-Message-ID: <"81wUF.0.Yk6.1Izrt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30135 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:10 AM 9/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >***{As a matter of curiosity, why haven't you followed the detailed >instructions on J.L. Naudin's website, built a Newman motor, and checked it >out yourself? Since Newman has repeatedly touted Naudin's results as a >proof of his concept, the implication is that Naudin has built a legitimate >Newman motor, and so it would seem that if you follow Naudin's plans and >test the resulting motor, you should be able to reach a definitive >conclusion, right? Indeed, I would think you would prefer to go by that >route, since the headaches associated with letting Newman sleep on a cot in >your lab and look over your shoulder during testing would probably be >greater than the headaches caused by building a motor yourself. If this >reasoning is incorrect, why is it incorrect? --Mitchell Jones}*** > Not speaking for Scott, but let me guess what the scenario would be: 1. Scott builds a motor following Naudin's plans 2. Scott tests it and finds no overunity operation 3. Newman cries foul -- Scott didn't build it right or test it right or (fill in the blank). 4. We are right back where we started. This can all be avoided by having Newman provide his own working motor. This will never happen IMHO. --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 09:43:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA13863; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:30:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:30:57 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:30:14 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:24:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-reply-to: To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2211ZYCDHV44X X400-MTS-identifier: [;41032190909991/4098793 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"OyMlJ2.0.XO3.13-rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30136 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John, In reply to your questions on my recent "Sparks Are Flying" posting. This whole topic was prompted by one of the few feeble talents I seem to have, that is to notice similarities between seemingly unrelated topics. With that in mind, I brought up 5 items concerning how sparks may be involved in energy production. 1) Chemical 2) Nuclear 3) Entrainment 4) Stretched Capacitor 5) ZPE Gateway I will try to expand in brief each item somewhat: (Sorry if this gets rather long, but you seem to like the BBGB approach) 1) Chemical Stefan Hartmann had been speculating in a post that perhaps the "hissing spark" involved a chemical reaction between the atmosphere & the contacts producing extra electricity. I took it to mean something like the chemical reaction that goes on in a battery. For instance if there was some form of zinc in the contacts it may be reacting with the oxygen in the air to react like a zinc-oxygen battery does to create electricity. 2) Nuclear Fred Epps responded under my my original subject, expanding on my reference to spark related excess energy. One of the references was: >This sounds a bit like the transmutation of carbon to iron in a simple arc >described by Kushi and replicated many times by many people. I have seen >it myself at Bill B's science meeting. Where can Santilli's data be found? The reference to Santilli's work was from Henry Curtis: >Stefan, Your post just trigered a light in my head. >At the INE symposium >http://www.padrak.com/ine/INECONF99.html >held in Salt Lake City this past week end several presentors had >excellent data on low temperature nuclear reactions (not cold fusion). >Prof. Ruggero Santilli is doing some exceptionaly through work in this >field. His technology is being marked by Toups Technology Licensing. >They are on the web at toups toupstech.com and www.toupstech.com. The >INE has reciently published a 300+ page monograph of some of Santilli's >work. >The low temperature nuclear reactions that he is describing may well be >a source of energy at the spark gap in commutators. There has been a lot >of comment about the color, sound. and size of the sprk at the >commutator in the Numan machine. In Santilli's data oxygen is combining >with several different low molecular weight elements including carbon to >form higher atomic weight elements with the liberation of energy in >commercial quantities. 3) Entrainment >>3) Remember when Stephan brought up the subject of air entrainment when >>he blew into a tube with a 1 inch gap between his mouth and the tube, how >>he got significantly more air volume than when his mouth was directly >>against the end of the tube. > Does it sort of seem self evident you get maybe a better air flow >with a seal... as opposed to a 1 inch gap??? Try it, take an 8 1/2 * 11 piece of paper and roll it into a 1" diameter tube lengthwise. Then hold it against your mouth with one hand and blow through it feeling the airflow with your other hand at the end. Then move the tube about an inch from your mouth and blow with the same strength again. Go ahead and do it, I'll wait. ;^) See, neat huh? Back to sparks, on further reflection I guess I was thinking more along the lines of atmospheric static electricity being attracted to the spark. Similar to how lightening will pull electricity from the atmosphere over a wide area, not just the point in the sky where you see the bolt appear from. Also perhaps once the arc is initiated it creates an ionized pathway that makes it easier for the current to flow? Perhaps a layer of ionized air over the earths ground plain separated by a layer of less ionized air acts like a capacitor? 4) Stretched Capacitor Here are a few references from earlier posts: In a reply from Dieter Bauer: >>1) I vaguely remember a long time ago someone telling me that if you >>stretched apart the plates of a charged capacitor, this mechanical energy >>will be converted into electricity. Recently someone else on the >>freenrg-l list said the same thing. First of all, is this first item >>true? >I do not know, who said this, but it is true and has nothing to do with >Zaev s conversion effect. >>2) There has also been discussions of electronic devices that carry away >>heat. One is magnetically driven, the other is a semiconductor device. >>I understand both of these have been developed into commercial >>applications, I have see the semiconductor device advertised as a CPU >>cooler and a food cooler. So that it would not be unreasonable to accept >>that heat can be carried away electrically, under the right conditions. >That are Peltier-elements you speak from ! > >>If so than I have a question. Is the Zaev varicond capacitor made from a >>material that has greater expansion & contraction characteristics than >>the other capacitors that you have tested? >The dielectric material these capacitances are made from are piezoelectric >but the effect itself has at least nothing to do with the mechanical >behaviour of the material ! It is an electrocaloric thermodynamic effect >which was discovered by Zaev in Russia on a probably very old type of >ceramic capacitances. Then in a reply from William Beaty (the other Bill B.): >> Are there any comparative figures available on the relative efficiencies >> of electrical generation when converting mechanical energy to electrical >> by using a standard "magnetic field cutting wire" -vs- "stretched >> capacitor"? >I've never seen this analyzed in detail. However, I recall seeing a >1960's article about a big spinning-vanes electrostatic motor at MIT, >operated inside a vacuum chamber. They mentioned that efficiency was >something like 95%, if I recall correctly. >The trouble with replacing coil-motors with electrostatic motors is that >high voltage is needed, and so we get energy loss through corona leakage >(as well as carcinogens and materials degradation). Voltage-motors work >best in a hard vacuum, or where low-voltage versions of the motors are >feasible (MEMS, nano-tech.) I find it humerous that voltage-motors are >associated with dusty, obsolete 18th century science, and also future >orbital industry, silicon micromachines, and cutting-edge nano-biology. Then in a later reply also from Bill B.: >Don't trust anything I say! I just double-checked my calculations below >and found a large error. >On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, William Beaty wrote: >>If we know the attraction force and the capacitance, then we can >>calculate the voltage. If the attraction force is 10 grams (0.1Nt) and >>is constant with distance because the plates are closely spaced, and if >>the spacing of the "capacitor plates" is initially 1mm (0.001meter), then >>it took F*d Joules to pull the attractive plates apart to 1mm, and the >>stored energy is .1Nt * .001meter = 1e-4 joules. OK so far? Now, what >>is the capacitance of two plates spaced 1mm apart and having the size of >>the contact area between the balloon and your forearm? Lets say the area >>is 4cm by 15cm, or .04*.15 = .006 square meters. The capacitance >>equation is C = k*area/spacing, where k=8.9e-12 and lengths are in >>meters, so the capacitance is 53.4pf. The energy stored was 100 >>microjoules, so the voltage can be had by E=1/2CV^2. >OK so far. An actual 4cm x 15cm foil-plate capacitor with a paper-stack >dielectric measures 95pf, which is in the ballpark. >> I get an answer of 1.9 kilovolts. That's at 1mm spacing. >Still OK: 1917 volts at 1mm spacing >> Pull the balloon out to 1cm, which does some work and injects ten times >>the energy, and I go through the whole calculation again and get 6.1 >>kilovolts. >Doh! I screwed up the algebra, letting the charge be altered with >distance. In reality, the 10-gram attraction sets the charge on each >plate at a constant .1 microcoulombs: FDL1/2Q^2/C, sqrt(2CFd) = >1e-7coulombs. Capacitor voltage is then V = Q/C, and capacitance varies >inversely with plate-spacing, therefor voltage varies directly with plate >spacing: > plate spacing V(capacitor) > 1mm 1917v > 5mm 9584v V = (1e-7)*D/(.006)/(8.9e-12) > 1cm 19168v > 5cm 95840v >So my 30KV gut-level estimate wasn't too high, it was to low!? Rubbing a >balloon on arm-hair creates 100KV at two inches spacing! No wonder my arm >hair stands on end so violently. A tabletop VandeGraaff certainly can't >approach a charged balloon when it comes to arm-hair rising. A "stretched >capacitor" electric generator. >> Pull it out to 5cm and I get 13.7 kilovolts. My gut-feel prediction of >>30KV was off by a factor of two. Voltage rises as the square-root of the >>distance and the force. >No, voltage rises DIRECTLY with distance, also as the square-root of >force. >>That voltage is there, even when there is no discharge to make it higher. >>That's for 10 grams of attraction. If I really scrub a balloon on my >>arm, maybe the attraction is higher than 10 grams, maybe not. >>My central assertion: rub a balloon on your arm, pull it off, and many >>kilovolts silently appear, even though there is no discharge and no >>"water hammer" effect. 5) ZPE Gateway This was entirely based on my speculation of a connection between Tom Bearden's discussion of capacitors as a ZPE Gateway, and sparks being observed by many to be related to excess energy. If you can follow all of Bearden's work then your a better man than I. Comments?... Bill webriggs concentric.net briggs XLNsystems.com DISCLAIMER - Any flaky hair brained ideas presented are my own, and not the flaky hair brained ideas of my employer. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 10:24:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA26522; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:00:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:00:48 -0700 Message-ID: <37D7E864.2BBD ca-ois.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:03:32 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Resolution of the Wave/ Parrticle duality Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-rRC_2.0.KU6.0V-rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30137 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear vo: I have the idea that the production of photon counts by the impingement of a frequency of radiation opon a metal has an analog in straightforward electronic wave theory that goes something like this: particle theory: a radiation of sufficiently high frequency impinges upon a metal surface and stimulates the ejection of a photelectron of a specific angular mometum, the intensity of this radiation has no effect on the velocity of the ejected photoelectron, only their number. That is, more intense radiation of the same frequency will stimulate the ejection of more photelectrons at the same velocity, hence the angular momentum of individual photelectrons remains tha same, it's just that you will get more of them as the intensity is increased. Below a certain threshold frerquency, no photoelectrons will be ejected, ie the binding energy cannot be overcome because the input energy is dissipated too quickly by the metal surface. Reducing the frequency of the incoming radiation will reduce the velocity of the ejected photoelectrons until none can be ejected. Therefore he ejection of photelectrons seems to be the result of the build up of a dc potential by the metal surface by storing the energy of the incoming radiation, the way I see it. The above mechanism has an analog in a normal electronic circuit, the bridge rectifier feeding a capacitor which transforms the incoming AC energy out of the wall socket into a dc potential in a capacitor. If the capacitor were shunted to ground across a apark gap, then at some point as the capacitor becomes charged an arc will occurr. The energy in this arc will always the same quantifiable value in joules. However if the frequency of the wall socket ac is reduced, a point will be reached where the capacitor does not become charged sufficiently to eject electrons accross the gap because whaever energy is there is dissipated by load resistance or dc leakage of the capacitor. Increasing the frequency of the wall socket ac would result in the production of more arcs per second, yet, the energy value in joules of each individual arc would reamain the same (more "photon" counts, but the same energy value per photon). Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 11:17:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24449; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:14:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:14:16 -0700 From: UNIR2B1 aol.com Message-ID: <795b1970.25094ff2 aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:01:22 EDT Subject: Ultra-pure water, with A/C as a by-product...? To: ruizmall webtv.net.Jose.Ruiz--Watsonville, CA@aol.com CC: rvanspaa vic.bigpond.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk), SedonaY2K@mail-list.com, seer7 netusa1.net, sepequal@hotmail.com (George A. Abbott), Serwitz aol.com, sharon@nyct.net (Sharon), shekhina_shaman bigfoot.com (Shekhina Canyon), SHEREE_SCHMIDT hp-loveland-om2.om.hp.com (Sheree Schmidt), spot2 pdq.net (spot), survival-ark@lyghtforce.com, survival ballistic.com (Tom), TB4299@aol.com, tenx7 bellatlantic.net (Henri Calitri), transnet mail.teleport.com (John Michaels), transnet teleport.com (Micheal), trknute@earthlink.net, UFOLAWYER1 aol.com, unexplained@listservice.net (unexplained), visited onelist.com (visited), vortex-l@eskimo.com, werosser hotmail.com, wiseman@eagle-research.com, y2k-survival infostream.net, Y2KNOW@listbot.com (Y2K), zianet interserv.com (David Openheimer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"lbJqi2.0.tz5.tZ_rt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30138 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following missive, which I just faxed to a friend who's a NASA contractor, is self-explanitory; any data contributions would be appreciated! I just thought of another feature: insofar as PRODUCED water would be mineral-free, it might be appreciably *acid* and useful as a disinfectant, soil conditioner, etc.; perhaps obviating the need for stockpiling apple cider vinegar. For potability, sea salt could be added--it has the same mineral profile as dessicated & powdered human cells. --Russ PS -- I hope you'll agree that at this critical juncture in human evolution, we should share truths equally and overthrow "the Beast" collectively, rather than individually withholding essential innovations for reasons of short-sighted profiteering. (I’m not denigrating capitalism per se--money itself was never intended to be politically controlled by an entity like the Federal Reserve and its global counterparts.) Although you might not believe it (indeed, you’re not *supposed* to) the “powers that be” methodically restrain progress through bribery, censorship, IRS audits and assassinations. As a result, money cannot at present buy the kinds of wonders that would become commonplace if the *general* condition of the Earth and its population were enhanced. When an *individual* attempts to hoard or patent an easily reproducible breakthrough against human privation and dependency, he makes it easy for “them” to quash it. Only through immediate dissemination over the web & alternative media will such discoveries see daylight. 99% of America’s water is polluted (compare that to Canada’s 20%!). Moreover, municipal water shortages are viewed as the prime Y2K threat. The following methodology, for which I’m soliciting any investigative assistance, might provide a lifetime of the purest water possible with only battery power, a gas tank and some plumbing; one of the simplest among *many* innovations that could--IF we adopted far-sighted priorities--prove to be ecologically, macro-economically and geopolitically consequential. PPS -- I now have contact info for the inventor of the putative, air-source, A/C-water device mentioned below. I'll disclose what I can without promulgating intellectual property against his will. ------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, Jack-- Let’s recap: You et al accidentally discovered that hydrogen and oxygen, having been electrolyzed from water in a continuous-flow, straight (NON-pulsed) DC apparatus invented some 50 years ago by Henes, can be re-combined into ultra-pure water NO catalyst, only venturi turbulence (i.e., a welding nozzle). My two local families and many other friends are seeking an urgent recommendation about solar eqpt. and *water purification*. The Palmer membrane removes chemicals prodigiously, and I can get Katadyn Drip Filters wholesale, but I’ve been holding out for developments that are free of replaceable, technologically manufactured parts. WRT DIY-able projects, this quest has redounded to “cyclone separators”, which I’ve recently disqualified as purifiers, and hydrogen/electrolysis technology, which is particularly attractive because it can be powered by solar energy and can produce pure water while doing work. If the Henes device produces sufficient CFM of diatomic H2 & O2 (not hydroxy or ‘Brown’s gas’) with frugal amp-hour consumption, it could represent the ‘breakthrough’ I’ve sought. Water re-combination without a flame might present an interesting by-product, COOLING--IF the electrolyzed gasses were stable enough permit pre-pressurization in the tank. Hydroxy is stable up to 100 psi; I don’t know about a 2:1 mixture of the diatomic gasses. In any case, the H2 & O2 can be separated by an inexpensive, DuPont membrane material, but skipping this step would be fantastic if possible. Of course, an H/O flame produces water, too, along with *heat*, which rounds out the package. The Henes-Weeks methodology might therefore lie at the heart of a heating/cooling/water-producing device that's supposedly under development, using air--not water--as the source (pure water & A/C from air + electricity?). Perhaps it similarly re-combines *atmospheric* H2 & O2 with the N sequestered by Zeolite (after the input air is de-humidified). It would be interesting to see if & how they’ve managed to reduce the requisite power consumption to a level that’s compatible with a tenably-sized solar system. You mentioned a diagram; my fax / tel # is 256-546-5945. However, replicating the effect will require measurements, specs, etc. When can I see this thing? Thanks very much! Regards, Russ cell. 256-490-4158 UNIR2B1 aol.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 11:53:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07096; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:49:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: <016b01befafc$2bccd7a0$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "(Delete)" Cc: Subject: Wimshurst Machine (Old Sparky) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:47:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFAC1.72FBF6A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"HDxMn1.0.ok1.950st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30139 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFAC1.72FBF6A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Worth a glance. :-) FJS http://www.netspace.net.au/~tphefley/ ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFAC1.72FBF6A0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Wimshurst Machine.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Wimshurst Machine.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.netspace.net.au/~tphefley/ [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.netspace.net.au/~tphefley/ Modified=40ECD1EFFBFABE01A0 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEFAC1.72FBF6A0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 11:58:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11200; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:56:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:56:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37D803BD.4CFB9A2 ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:00:13 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Brouhaha averted at ACS References: <3.0.6.32.19990909102740.00797d60 pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-vjKQ3.0.wk2.oB0st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30140 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept. 9, 1999 Vortex, Jed Rothwell wrote that Scott Chubb suggested that I may want to attend and make a video. Thanks to Jed's notice posted on the Vortex, I became aware of the regional ACS conference. Yes I plan on attending the meeting to tape for personal archival purposes and to observe. If necessary, I can commute to cover some related presentations not covered in the one day session --- such as the Mills (of the Hydrino fame) and others not yet finalized. I understand that there is an invitation only meeting upcoming in Asti, Italy near the end of October (23ish?). The subject matter will be on CF. Peter Glueck (Aug. retired), of the Potapove connection, will be among those invited. It seems various vortex devices are alive and well 'over there'. And also, that the ICCF-8 Conference (May, 2000 in Frascati, Italy) has been fully funded. -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 12:13:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16616; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:12:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:12:12 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> References: <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:10:12 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"vjRUM1.0.T34.CQ0st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30141 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 01:10 AM 9/9/99 -0500, you wrote: > >>***{As a matter of curiosity, why haven't you followed the detailed >>instructions on J.L. Naudin's website, built a Newman motor, and checked it >>out yourself? Since Newman has repeatedly touted Naudin's results as a >>proof of his concept, the implication is that Naudin has built a legitimate >>Newman motor, and so it would seem that if you follow Naudin's plans and >>test the resulting motor, you should be able to reach a definitive >>conclusion, right? Indeed, I would think you would prefer to go by that >>route, since the headaches associated with letting Newman sleep on a cot in >>your lab and look over your shoulder during testing would probably be >>greater than the headaches caused by building a motor yourself. If this >>reasoning is incorrect, why is it incorrect? --Mitchell Jones}*** >> > >Not speaking for Scott, but let me guess what the scenario would be: > >1. Scott builds a motor following Naudin's plans >2. Scott tests it and finds no overunity operation >3. Newman cries foul -- Scott didn't build it right or test it right or >(fill in the blank). >4. We are right back where we started. > >This can all be avoided by having Newman provide his own working motor. >This will never happen IMHO. > >--Lynn ***{The question of whether Newman will cry foul if a proper test is done, if he doesn't like the result, is a question about his character, and is not an appropriate topic to discuss here. My point is that if Scott wants to know whether the Newman motor works, then he should follow Naudin's plan, produce a Newman motor, and test it. Naturally, he should send Newman detailed info about the motor he has constructed and the tests he is doing, in a manner similar to the way he has kept Mizuno informed, and should encourage Newman to suggest changes and improvements. If he is as courteous and open to suggestions in his dealings with Newman as he has been with Mizuno, I would expect the testing process to yield worthwhile information. In that case, when he is done, he will have a reasonable basis for his opinion on the matter, whether pro or con, regardless of whether Newman agrees or not. --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 12:36:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA28216; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:36:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:36:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cWKwN1.0.ku6.Vm0st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30142 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See notes, some cuts... ....... My point is that who wants > to know whether the Newman motor works, Actually that was a lot of cuts. Suggestion for testing Newman motor. To Joe Newman... Dear Joe, if I get any of this wrong, then let me know, we spoke a few years ago and there were good feelings on both sides: One of the issues in your recent text had to do with the mechanical resistance of the motor, and if you tried to drive NEARLY ANYTHING with as much esistance as the existing motor has, then you could not do it on the power you use SO: I suggest: 1] Take some sort of regular electric motor and connect it mechanically to you motor.... use car batteries and drive the electric motor whcih, in turn, causes the Newman motor to rotate. 2] Measure current and voltage AT THE SAME TIME from the battery supplying the conventional electric motor. 3] Use ANALOG AMP METER and ANALOG VOLT METER .... IMPORTANT: TO MEASURE THE CONVENTIONAL MOTOR USE NOLY ANALOG METERS, AND MEASURE VOLTS AND AMPS AT THE SAME TIME Now we will know the power a regular motor needs to rotate the Newman device. NOW: Remove the conventional electric motor and run the Newman motor alone, as you normally would.... and measure with the same ANALOG METERS Is that OK? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 12:53:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01469; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:50:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:50:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990909155112.00799e40 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:51:12 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: John Logajan's webantics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"x3GNp3.0.tM.3-0st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30143 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Webantics? Webology? Webations? Hello John. You said you have cut over to a new ISP with a cable modem, and you may have to abandon your web page. That would a real shame because the web page has loads of good stuff on it. Anyway, I'd like to know: Are these cable modem things worth it? Do they really browse much faster than regular modems? Many web sites and links seem to be limited to slow speeds. With heavy traffic, a regular modem is often slowed down way below its potential. What has been your experience so far? - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 12:56:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA02606; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:51:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:51:52 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990909155241.0079e910 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:52:41 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Brouhaha averted at ACS In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990909102740.00797d60 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HX7b02.0.Je.N_0st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30144 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >(One of >the originators of the theory of energy conservation was forced to rent >space in a church to hold a meeting when the scientific establishment >refused to let him lecture. I do not recall who it was. Joule, Clausius?) Melvin Miles says it was J. P. Joule. I knew it was one of those guys! - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 12:57:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA05098; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:55:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:55:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990909155643.0079c4e0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:56:43 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Glow discharge info. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ninVb1.0.aF1.831st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30145 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just e-mailed some black and white graphs and comments about Mizuno's glow discharge data to Scott Little and various other people who are interested in that subject. The message is ~250 KB, which is way too big for this forum. I think it is too detailed for this forum. If anyone else is interested, contact me and I'll shoot you a copy directly. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 13:50:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27895; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:45:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:45:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:44:42 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: References: <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Wve3g3.0.jp6.On1st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30146 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:10 PM 9/9/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: >My point is that if Scott wants >to know whether the Newman motor works, then he should follow Naudin's >plan, produce a Newman motor, and test it. Lynn is right, Mitchell. Your plan works fine ONLY if my embodiment of Newman's motor tests out as Newman claims. In the event that Newman's motor does not work as claimed, building my own version would be a complete waste of time. Since Newman already has his own version built, the obvious thing to do is to test THAT unit...the one Newman has in his possession. Ideally, he would bring the motor here since I'll probably need access to most of my crap to perform a really rigorous test. However, if necessary...and if Newman will cooperate with sufficiently detailed information about his motor (e.g. dimensioned dwgs, etc.) I would be willing to prepare a dynamometer and travel with it to Newman's place for the testing...also free of charge or obligation to Newman. I would much rather build a custom dynamometer to test Newman's own motor and take a trip with it...and learn the real truth; than to build my own version of Newman's motor and then build a custom dynamometer to test it...and learn only whether or not my embodiment worked. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 15:21:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25779; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:21:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:21:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990909172007.00710444 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:20:07 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-Reply-To: References: < Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vuZRz1.0.jI6.DB3st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30147 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:24 AM 9/9/99 -0400, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: >5) ZPE Gateway >This was entirely based on my speculation of a connection between Tom >Bearden's discussion of capacitors as a ZPE Gateway, and sparks being >observed by many to be related to excess energy. If you can follow all of >Bearden's work then your a better man than I. The whole Ken Shoulders charge cluster thing has been attributed to ZPE. When the electrons are first boiling off the cathode tip in a really fast-rising discharge, the electron density in space adjacent to the tip should become high enough for the Casimir compressive forces (acting on the boundaries of the electron cloud) to overcome the Coulomb repulsion forces among the electrons such that the cloud of electrons condenses into a tiny blob...or ring. This is the "charge cluster" that Shoulder's did all his work on. If it exists...and if it forms as described above, it will contain energy that came from the ZPF...i.e. the amount of work done on it by the ZPF to condense it. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 17:27:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA06238; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:25:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:25:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990909201638.00884720 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:16:38 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990909172007.00710444 mail.eden.com> References: < Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"r2RoU3.0.KX1.c_4st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30148 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:20 PM 9/9/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 10:24 AM 9/9/99 -0400, Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 wrote: > >>5) ZPE Gateway >>This was entirely based on my speculation of a connection between Tom >>Bearden's discussion of capacitors as a ZPE Gateway, and sparks being >>observed by many to be related to excess energy. If you can follow all of >>Bearden's work then your a better man than I. > >The whole Ken Shoulders charge cluster thing has been attributed to ZPE. >When the electrons are first boiling off the cathode tip in a really >fast-rising discharge, the electron density in space adjacent to the tip >should become high enough for the Casimir compressive forces (acting on the >boundaries of the electron cloud) to overcome the Coulomb repulsion forces >among the electrons such that the cloud of electrons condenses into a tiny >blob...or ring. This is the "charge cluster" that Shoulder's did all his >work on. If it exists...and if it forms as described above, it will >contain energy that came from the ZPF...i.e. the amount of work done on it >by the ZPF to condense it. Stated but unproven. ZPElattice is real. In constrast, ZPEvacuum is essentially so miniscule as to be irrelevant. It probably belongs with light leptons. ;-)X On the other hand, post a few equations, or a clear explanation of the above, and we could look closer again. Ken Shoulders charge cluster probably has nothing to do with ZPEvac, which is a constantly interjected red herring, IMO. Ken has an interesting phenomena that may be different from cold fusion and certainly seem different from the purported, infintesimally small, ZPEvacuum. [BTW the classic bond energies, rather than strengths as usually considered, ought be reconsidered before inventing new purported energies.] Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 18:11:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23262; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:10:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:10:36 -0700 Message-ID: <01ff01befb31$672e2800$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: < <3.0.1.32.19990909201638.00884720@world.std.com> Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:07:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"MXkLj.0.Mh5.Bg5st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30149 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Swartz To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! Mitchell Swartz wrote: > > > Stated but unproven. ZPElattice is real. > In constrast, ZPEvacuum is essentially so miniscule as to be > irrelevant. It probably belongs with light leptons. ;-)X Neutrinos-Antineutrinos are light leptons, Mitchell, do you dispute ther existence? If you do your physics 101, you will probably find that they are created along with electron-positron pair production from a photon at ~1.02 Mev or so. Then there should be Light Lepton Pairs and Neutrinos-Antineutrinos produced at ~7,443 ev, ~54.4 ev, and ~4.0 ev. You keep talking about your OOPs (or is it POOPs?) and wondering how you can form He4 from two Deuterons with the release of ~24 Mev in a Gammaless-Aneutronic reaction, or get Deuteron "Stripping" in a 1/2 ev plasma, when the answer is right there along with your PIE-NOTCH that you got with a "Happy Meal" at McDonalds. :-) Regards, Frederick > > Mitchell Swartz > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 18:14:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23321; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:10:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:10:50 -0700 Message-ID: <008101befb29$54dc30a0$0101a8c0 john> From: "John Logajan" To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990909155112.00799e40 pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: John Logajan's webantics Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:10:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"zcqnB1.0.Ji5.Qg5st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30150 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > Hello John. You said you have cut over to a new ISP with a cable modem, and > you may have to abandon your web page. That would a real shame because the > web page has loads of good stuff on it. Anyway, I'd like to know: Are these > cable modem things worth it? Do they really browse much faster than regular > modems? Many web sites and links seem to be limited to slow speeds. With > heavy traffic, a regular modem is often slowed down way below its > potential. What has been your experience so far? I don't really have to abandon my web page because the cable modem ISP (the cable TV company) provides users with web page space. But since I'd have to move it, and since it is about a year and a half out of date (new marriage and house building having a way of sapping all your strength and time) it is essentially abandoned now. As far as the value of cable modems, it depends. I used to use my dial-up account so much I needed a second phone line. That cost about $22/mo and the ISP cost another $25/mo -- I usually got 26k connects. Right now they haven't finished upgrading the entire area so I have the so called "one way" cable modem, which requires a telephone line for upstream. So I am currently paying $22/mo for the fone and $40/mo for the ISP. Hopefully in the next few months the two way service will become available and the $22/mo fone charge will go away. As for performance, they say things like "up to 50 times faster." But typical downloads are only 5-15 times faster. I haven't ever seen anything in the neighborhood of 50 times faster. I just browsed some picture oriented newsgroups and the speed seemed to be about 450kbps for a large file. Not too bad for 8PM on a weekday evening. That's "local content" in the sense that it is from servers electrically close to the headend, and not off on the wider internet. I'd have to say so far that on average, the speed is better by a large margin than dial-ups. The "one-way" service does have a tendency to drop the calls in the evening, which requires reconnect attempts. But that annoying problem ought to go away when two-way is available. Most web pages are stored in well connected ISP's, rather than on servers on the end of 33K dial-up connections, so the main slowdown for long haul web traffic and the like will be congestion. Nevertheless, you're still better off with a high-speed link, since traffic is bursty and even in congestion, opportunities will arise and let a large chunk of your data through -- the opportunity would be squandered with a slower dial-up connection. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan yahoo.com -- 651-633-8918 - - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 18:39:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA01734; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:36:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:36:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990909203434.00977100 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:34:34 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990909201638.00884720 world.std.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990909172007.00710444 mail.eden.com> < Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"JNqoA1.0.0R.426st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30151 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:16 PM 9/9/99 -0400, Mitchell Swartz wrote: >On the other hand, post a few equations, or a clear explanation >of the above, and we could look closer again. As you have often encouraged me, go to the library, Mitch. Here's your list: H. E. Puthoff, "Ground State of Hydrogen as a Zero-Point-Fluctuation-Determined State," Phys. Rev. D 35, 3266 (1987). H. E. Puthoff, "Zero-Point Fluctuations of the Vacuum as the Source of Atomic Stability and the Gravitational Interaction, "Proc. of the British Soc. for the Philosophy of Science Intern'l Conf. "Physical Interpretations of Relativity Theory," Imperial College, London, ed. M. C. Duffy (Sunderland Polytechnic, 1988). H. E. Puthoff, "Gravity as a Zero-Point-Fluctuation Force," Phys. Rev. A 39, 2333 (1989); Phys. Rev A 47, 3454 (1993). H. E. Puthoff, "On the Source of Vacuum Electromagnetic Zero-Point Energy," Phys. Rev. A 40, 4857 (1989); Errata and Comments, Phys. Rev. A 44, 3382, 3385 (1991). H. E. Puthoff, "Everything for Nothing," New Sci. 127, 52 (28 July 1990). H. E. Puthoff, "The Energetic Vacuum: Implications for Energy Research," Spec. in Sci. and Technology 13, 247 (1990). H. E. Puthoff, "Zero-Point Energy: An Introduction," Fusion Facts 3, No. 3, 1 (1991). H. E. Puthoff, "On the Feasibility of Converting Vacuum Electromagnetic Energy to Useful Form," Intern'l Workshop on the Zeropoint Electromagnetic Field," Cuernavaca, Mexico, March 29 - April 2, 1993. D. C. Cole and H. E. Puthoff, "Extracting Energy and Heat from the Vacuum," Phys. Rev. E 48, 1562 (1993). See also Fusion Facts 5, No. 3, 1 (1993). B. Haisch, A. Rueda, and H. E. Puthoff, "Inertia as a Zero-Point Field Lorentz Force," Phys. Rev. A 49, 678 (1994). See also Science 263, 612 (1994). Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 19:02:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10037; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:01:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:01:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990909215154.00890030 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:51:54 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990909203434.00977100 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990909201638.00884720 world.std.com> <3.0.1.32.19990909172007.00710444 mail.eden.com> < Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_iI893.0.hS2.jP6st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30152 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:34 PM 9/9/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 08:16 PM 9/9/99 -0400, Mitchell Swartz wrote: > >>On the other hand, post a few equations, or a clear explanation >>of the above, and we could look closer again. > >As you have often encouraged me, go to the library, Mitch. Here's your list: > >H. E. Puthoff, "Ground State of Hydrogen as a >Zero-Point-Fluctuation-Determined State," Phys. Rev. D 35, 3266 (1987). > >H. E. Puthoff, "Zero-Point Fluctuations of the Vacuum as the Source of >Atomic Stability and the Gravitational Interaction, "Proc. of the British Soc. >for the Philosophy of Science Intern'l Conf. "Physical Interpretations of >Relativity Theory," Imperial College, London, ed. M. C. Duffy (Sunderland >Polytechnic, 1988). > >H. E. Puthoff, "Gravity as a Zero-Point-Fluctuation Force," Phys. Rev. A >39, 2333 (1989); Phys. Rev A 47, 3454 (1993). > >H. E. Puthoff, "On the Source of Vacuum Electromagnetic Zero-Point Energy," >Phys. Rev. A 40, 4857 (1989); Errata and Comments, Phys. Rev. A >44, 3382, 3385 (1991). > >H. E. Puthoff, "Everything for Nothing," New Sci. 127, 52 (28 July 1990). > >H. E. Puthoff, "The Energetic Vacuum: Implications for Energy Research," >Spec. in Sci. and Technology 13, 247 (1990). > >H. E. Puthoff, "Zero-Point Energy: An Introduction," Fusion Facts 3, No. 3, >1 (1991). > >H. E. Puthoff, "On the Feasibility of Converting Vacuum Electromagnetic >Energy to Useful Form," Intern'l Workshop on the Zeropoint >Electromagnetic Field," Cuernavaca, Mexico, March 29 - April 2, 1993. > >D. C. Cole and H. E. Puthoff, "Extracting Energy and Heat from the Vacuum," >Phys. Rev. E 48, 1562 (1993). See also Fusion Facts 5, No. 3, 1 >(1993). > >B. Haisch, A. Rueda, and H. E. Puthoff, "Inertia as a Zero-Point Field >Lorentz Force," Phys. Rev. A 49, 678 (1994). See also Science 263, 612 (1994). Yes, I did read them. Many could use some more supportive math if it exists. I just dont believe the assumption of an equation based upon the further presumption of the entire universe's mass (times another thirty or so orders of magnitude) being in every cm3 of vacuuum. It is unphysical. Also I dont believe the purported balancing of hydrogen in its lower state by ZPE either, because of simple causality. ================================================== BTW, Scott, here are two questions. Art Bell's guest last night or so, seemed to imply that Hal and/or you think psychic energy also can power a motor like ZPE. Comments? I thought you were looking for robust effects. ;-)X Did you go back and reexamine the beads or the other systems you studied based upon what you learned? Have a good day. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 19:06:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA10180; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:01:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:01:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990909215238.0088c3c0 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:52:38 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! In-Reply-To: <01ff01befb31$672e2800$ad441d26 fjsparber> References: < <3.0.1.32.19990909201638.00884720 world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HlQUP3.0.zU2.MQ6st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30153 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:07 PM 9/9/99 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: > >> Stated but unproven. ZPElattice is real. >> In constrast, ZPEvacuum is essentially so miniscule as to be >> irrelevant. It probably belongs with light leptons. ;-)X > >Neutrinos-Antineutrinos are light leptons, Mitchell, do you dispute ther >existence? No. They are real. >If you do your physics 101, you will probably find that they are created >along with electron-positron pair production from a photon at ~1.02 Mev or >so. Check up on "triplet production", too. ;-)X And your other comments are answered in the published literature. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 9 20:35:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA06288; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:33:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:33:39 -0700 Message-ID: <19990910033307.18770.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [128.174.36.212] From: "e lewis" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:33:07 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Z7MAH3.0.6Y1.Im7st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30154 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If people are interested in the ideas about sparks, ball lightning, and plasmoids and etc. could I suggest: Microscopic Ball Lightning http://207.225.33.111/mbl.html I think basically that atoms convert to light and electricity or may form bigger plasmoids. I think all the anomalous phenomena of ball lightning and cold fusion show that everything is a plasmoid. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 05:28:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA20115; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:27:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:27:50 -0700 Message-ID: <023301befb8f$fecd11e0$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Oop & Light Lepton-Neutrino Pair Production Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:24:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Upvnb1.0.Dw4.5bFst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30155 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For your plate Mitchell Swartz, :-) Wien's Displacement Law: Lamba(max)*T = 2898 Micron Degrees establishes the peak of a "bell curve" at a given temperature. Thus IF the predicted LL-Neutrino-Antineutrino pair production from ~0.40 ev (3.1 Micron Photons) in Any Hydrogenous Material occurs, the optimum operating point (OOP) should be at 2898/3.1 = 935 K, or less. Anything over this is a waste of energy, and since a normal distribution or FWHM point on a bell curve would pick up the 0.4 ev photons (Mid Infrared) at 935/2 ~= 468 K or 195 deg C with a lessor energy investment, this would be the OOP you seek. You saw this with the Cell at San Diego, when Jed backed off on the electrolysis current (galvanoluminescent IR photons at the electrodes)and you see it with the Mizuno-Ohmori glow discharge cell where generating a lot of visible to ultraviolet photons yields less OU output. This is also evident in the Cavitation Devices and in Mills' "Hydrinolator". IOW, A better ROI/OOP, playing the Penny Slots. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 07:37:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29150; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:30:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:30:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910103025.00799380 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:30:25 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"y98xC1.0.O77.9OHst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30156 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Jones wrote: Naturally, he should send Newman detailed info about the motor he has constructed and the tests he is doing, in a manner similar to the way he has kept Mizuno informed, and should encourage Newman to suggest changes and improvements. If he is as courteous and open to suggestions in his dealings with Newman as he has been with Mizuno, I would expect the testing process to yield worthwhile information. The suggestion here, which Jones and others have made, is that it might be possible to work with Newman on a rational, productive basis. I once might have agreed, but I have dealt with people like Newman for many years and I have concluded that they will never cooperate and it is a waste of time dealing with them. You will learn what happens to people who try to cooperate with Newman by reading: http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/biss.htm You will have a similar experience if you try to deal with someone like Potapov, with any of the magnetic machine inventors I have come in contact with, or with most cold fusion scientists. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 07:42:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA31873; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:35:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:35:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> References: <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:33:05 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"p7uNZ.0.xn7.FTHst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30157 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 02:10 PM 9/9/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: > >>My point is that if Scott wants >>to know whether the Newman motor works, then he should follow Naudin's >>plan, produce a Newman motor, and test it. > >Lynn is right, Mitchell. Your plan works fine ONLY if my embodiment of >Newman's motor tests out as Newman claims. > >In the event that Newman's motor does not work as claimed, building my own >version would be a complete waste of time. ***{When you built your own version of Mizuno's "boiled lighting" cell and tested it, was that "a complete waste of time"? Granted, the failure of those experiments to be "over unity" did not settle the issue, since the proponents of the experiment simply claimed that you didn't do a proper replication. But you doubtlessly learned a lot from those efforts, and the feedback which you elicited as a result has led you directly to your more recent, and far better, attempts at replication. And, having performed the later tests and gotten negative results with them as well, have you persuaded Mizuno, Ohmori, Jed et al. that they have made errors? No. Therefore even these later, more sophisticated efforts must have been a waste of time as well, right? The answer: of course not! Why not? Simple: when you do an experiment, you merely venture down a path that, eventually, you hope will enable you to answer some question. There is no way to know how much time and effort you will have to expend to reach that goal, or even if you will reach it at all, for that matter. The benefit is in the process itself--in the fun you have engaging in it, in what you learn thereby, and, on rare occasions, in the important discoveries that you make. In such a context, I fail to see how building a Newman motor according to J. L. Naudin's detailed specifications would be "a complete waste of time" regardless of whether it supported Newman's claims. Moreover, on the off chance that it does work, look at the opportunity: Newman apparently needs money, and you guys claim to have access to big bucks, once a technology with commercial potential has been proven by means of extensive testing in your lab. In that case, why are you wasting time with the Mizuno cell? Even if it works, its commercial potential is highly problematic, since it may require vast development costs. If the Newman motor works as claimed, on the other hand, all you have to do is make a deal with him, assign some lawyers to the patent questions, slap a "patent pending" on the damn thing, and go into production. (In fact, I have been told that Newman has a Mexican patent already, and that, under NAFTA, it applies in the U.S. If that is so, then even the patent problem will be a minor distraction.) --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Since Newman already has his own version built, the obvious thing to do is >to test THAT unit...the one Newman has in his possession. ***{Yes, Scott, but a wise man can recognize when an option is not available, and can adjust his behavior accordingly. Newman's detractors claim that his reluctance to submit to further outside testing indicates that his technology is bogus, while his supporters claim that he has been burned in the past, and is now exceedingly cautious and secretive. As an outsider, neither you nor I are in a position to definitively choose between these explanations, without testing his motor first. And, obviously, the only way you, or anyone, is going to do that is by building a motor according to Naudin's plan, and testing it. Bottom line: when the "obvious" path is closed, a different route is indicated. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Ideally, he would bring the motor here since I'll probably need access to >most of my crap to perform a really rigorous test. However, if >necessary...and if Newman will cooperate with sufficiently detailed >information about his motor (e.g. dimensioned dwgs, etc.) I would be >willing to prepare a dynamometer and travel with it to Newman's place for >the testing...also free of charge or obligation to Newman. > >I would much rather build a custom dynamometer to test Newman's own motor >and take a trip with it...and learn the real truth; than to build my own >version of Newman's motor and then build a custom dynamometer to test >it...and learn only whether or not my embodiment worked. ***{Yes, of course. However, I think that this is an important enough issue to warrant some flexibility on your part, especially in view of the fact that we are not talking about a design that you cobble together yourself, sans input, but rather about Naudin's "embodiment," which has been implicitly endorsed by Newman. --MJ}*** > > > > > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 07:53:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05908; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:50:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:50:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990910103025.00799380 pop.mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:48:35 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"BuysK3.0.AS1.wgHst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30158 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mitchell Jones wrote: > > Naturally, he should send Newman detailed info about the motor he > has constructed and the tests he is doing, in a manner similar to > the way he has kept Mizuno informed, and should encourage Newman > to suggest changes and improvements. If he is as courteous and > open to suggestions in his dealings with Newman as he has been > with Mizuno, I would expect the testing process to yield > worthwhile information. > >The suggestion here, which Jones and others have made, is that it might be >possible to work with Newman on a rational, productive basis. I once might >have agreed, but I have dealt with people like Newman for many years and I >have concluded that they will never cooperate and it is a waste of time >dealing with them. You will learn what happens to people who try to >cooperate with Newman by reading: > >http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/biss.htm > >You will have a similar experience if you try to deal with someone like >Potapov, with any of the magnetic machine inventors I have come in contact >with, or with most cold fusion scientists. > >- Jed ***{These types of speculations are pointless. As I noted in my response to Scott, Newman's detractors--of which you are one--see him as refractory, abrasive, hard to deal with, etc., while his supporters consider his behavior to be justified by ill-treatment that he has received in the past. What I do not understand is why bright people such as yourself cannot get past this issue and focus on the immense importance of determining whether or not his motor works. Naudin has supplied a route of attack which renders Newman's personality irrelevant. All you now need to do, to evaluate Newman's technology, is to build a Newman motor according to Naudin's detailed specifications, and test it out. Moreover, Naudin himself gives the appearance of being cooperative and easy to work with, and so even if Newman is reluctant to respond to Scott's feedback, it seems clear that Naudin would do so. Thus why can't we get past the issue of Newman's personality? Can't you see that it is distracting you from the main issue? Indeed, suppose that Newman were to die of a heart attack tomorrow morning. What would you advocate then? Should we simply throw up our hands and give up for all time any hope of evaluating his technology? Isn't it obvious that Naudin has supplied an alternative way to approach this matter, a route which enables us to answer our questions without being distracted by personality issues? --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 08:07:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA11127; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:01:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:01:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990910100109.00f3bd78 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:01:09 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"2-NVf2.0.nj2.RrHst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30159 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:33 AM 9/10/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: >we are not talking about a design that you cobble together yourself, >sans input, but rather about Naudin's "embodiment," which has been >implicitly endorsed by Newman. --MJ}*** You've got some points...and they are similar to points that can be made about nearly every such opportunity that comes along. Newman's motor a la Naudin is one of many prospects we have available to us. For a complex, tangled variety of reasons, many subjective, building our own Newman motor is low on our list. However, if Newman would offer his own motor for testing, that would raise it near the top of our list. Do you know what Naudin is doing with his Newman motor now? Is he furiously engaged in developing it into a practical energy source? Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 08:24:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19857; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:22:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:22:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990910100109.00f3bd78 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:18:33 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"Rq_ZV3.0.Bs4.e8Ist" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30161 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 09:33 AM 9/10/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: > > > > > >>we are not talking about a design that you cobble together yourself, >>sans input, but rather about Naudin's "embodiment," which has been >>implicitly endorsed by Newman. --MJ}*** > >You've got some points...and they are similar to points that can be made >about nearly every such opportunity that comes along. Newman's motor a la >Naudin is one of many prospects we have available to us. For a complex, >tangled variety of reasons, many subjective, building our own Newman motor >is low on our list. However, if Newman would offer his own motor for >testing, that would raise it near the top of our list. ***{I do not believe Newman is going to do that, but Naudin might. Why don't you ask him to loan you his motor for testing? --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Do you know what Naudin is doing with his Newman motor now? Is he >furiously engaged in developing it into a practical energy source? ***{I have no information about Naudin beyond that which is publicly available on his website. From occasionally browsing there, I have come to regard him as a scientific investigator, not an entrepreneur. I see him as focused on an attempt to understand the "new energy" area by means of wide ranging experimentation. By means of the resulting overview, he may hope to focus in at some point on the area that is likely to be most fruitful, and may in the distant future have some practical, applications-oriented goals. Primarily, however, he strikes me as a person who is fascinated by the science, and by the pleasure he gets from scientific pursuits. This, of course, is merely the assessment of an outsider. The best way to determine his goals would be to ask him about them. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 08:26:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA04211; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990910111001.00868530 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:10:01 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990910103025.00799380 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YBp361.0.e11.P8Ist" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30160 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:48 AM 9/10/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: >>Mitchell Jones wrote: >> >> Naturally, he should send Newman detailed info about the motor he >> has constructed and the tests he is doing, in a manner similar to >> the way he has kept Mizuno informed, and should encourage Newman >> to suggest changes and improvements. If he is as courteous and >> open to suggestions in his dealings with Newman as he has been >> with Mizuno, I would expect the testing process to yield >> worthwhile information. >> >>The suggestion here, which Jones and others have made, is that it might be >>possible to work with Newman on a rational, productive basis. I once might >>have agreed, but I have dealt with people like Newman for many years and I >>have concluded that they will never cooperate and it is a waste of time >>dealing with them. You will learn what happens to people who try to >>cooperate with Newman by reading: >> >>http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/biss.htm >> >>You will have a similar experience if you try to deal with someone like >>Potapov, with any of the magnetic machine inventors I have come in contact >>with, or with most cold fusion scientists. >> >>- Jed This ad hominem does not belong on vortex. Some it it may be true as a personal experience, but it does does not appear to reflect accurately regarding these hard working innovators and researchers. We -- and others -- have found them extremely cooperative, and most share there information in the literature, in patents, and even here on the Internet. =============================================================== >***{These types of speculations are pointless. As I noted in my response to >Scott, Newman's detractors--of which you are one--see him as refractory, >abrasive, hard to deal with, etc., while his supporters consider his >behavior to be justified by ill-treatment that he has received in the past. >What I do not understand is why bright people such as yourself cannot get >past this issue and focus on the immense importance of determining whether >or not his motor works. Naudin has supplied a route of attack which renders >Newman's personality irrelevant. All you now need to do, to evaluate >Newman's technology, is to build a Newman motor according to Naudin's >detailed specifications, and test it out. Moreover, Naudin himself gives >the appearance of being cooperative and easy to work with, and so even if >Newman is reluctant to respond to Scott's feedback, it seems clear that >Naudin would do so. Thus why can't we get past the issue of Newman's >personality? Can't you see that it is distracting you from the main issue? >Indeed, suppose that Newman were to die of a heart attack tomorrow morning. >What would you advocate then? Should we simply throw up our hands and give >up for all time any hope of evaluating his technology? Isn't it obvious >that Naudin has supplied an alternative way to approach this matter, a >route which enables us to answer our questions without being distracted by >personality issues? --Mitchell Jones}*** Mitchell Jones is correct. The issue should be science and not the endless ad hominem -- ignoring both science and engineering such as far above. BTW, the same person/people who throw these ad hominem, have been shown to be wrong in the past about simple scientific and historical facts, which makes me think their protests are "hot air" and that more of these techniques should be closely examined. Why? Not only to learn how, if, and why (or why not) they work -- but how we can better examine such claims and foster innovation. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 08:37:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07954; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990910111944.00868200 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:19:44 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990910100109.00f3bd78 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1twp-1.0.5y1.OHIst" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30162 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:01 AM 9/10/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 09:33 AM 9/10/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: > > > > > >>we are not talking about a design that you cobble together yourself, >>sans input, but rather about Naudin's "embodiment," which has been >>implicitly endorsed by Newman. --MJ}*** > >You've got some points...and they are similar to points that can be made >about nearly every such opportunity that comes along. Newman's motor a la >Naudin is one of many prospects we have available to us. For a complex, >tangled variety of reasons, many subjective, building our own Newman motor >is low on our list. However, if Newman would offer his own motor for >testing, that would raise it near the top of our list. > >Do you know what Naudin is doing with his Newman motor now? Is he >furiously engaged in developing it into a practical energy source? > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) Scott, having spent considerable time examining YOUR data on the beads, and one or two other systems which you very briefly explored, where does your rexamination of YOUR own past investigations rate on your "list"? Did you go back and refine and improve your technique and reexamine the beads or the other systems which you studied based upon what you thereafter learned? Perhaps if you do, some of those investigators whom you are trying to lure to Earthtech might view you more favorably? Perhaps not. In any case, it would seem to be the scientific method. ;-)X Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 10:23:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03265; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:21:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:21:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910132122.007a0ae0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:21:22 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jqR9a2.0.xo.OuJst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30163 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Jones wrote: When you built your own version of Mizuno's "boiled lighting" cell and tested it, was that "a complete waste of time"? Granted, the failure of those experiments to be "over unity" did not settle the issue, since the proponents of the experiment simply claimed that you didn't do a proper replication. No, that never happened. The proponents of the experiment include Mizuno, Ohmori and me, and none of us has said that Scott Little didn't do a proper replication. We never hinted or alleged anything like that. Mizuno himself clearly stated, for the record, that he has no idea why the replication failed, as Scott and I reported here. I am sure Scott will agree that is the only conclusion we have reached. He reviewed my upcoming article for I.E. and he did not object to my representation of his work. You should put words in our mouth, Mitch. I resent that. But you doubtlessly learned a lot from those efforts, and the feedback which you elicited as a result has led you directly to your more recent, and far better, attempts at replication. . . [etc. Snipped] All of that is true (including the snipped part), but that kind of cooperation would never happen with Newman. Not in the lifetime of the universe, as the physicists would say. I do not know about Naudin. If the Newman motor works as claimed . . . The likelihood of that is so small it is hardly worth bothering with. Other undeveloped energy devices *do* work, so we should concentrate on them instead. They range from conventional things like fuel cells to CF. There is no need to chase after every rumor of a magic motor, and no one would the time or the money to do it anyway. You must practice ruthless triage. Admittedly, most mainstream scientists traiged CF straight into the garbage can in 1989, but that does not count. They did not seriously investigate it or try to contact the CF scientists. If they had done as much "due diligent" investigation of CF as others have done with Newman, and the CF scientists had treated them the way Newman treats people, they would be completely justified in rejecting CF. Indeed, most CF claims should rejected out of hand, and many self-styled CF "scientists" are quacks and frauds. (I will not mention any names here, but anyone who reviews the ICCF proceedings will spot them without difficulty.) It is a mistake to take all claims seriously, or to imagine that everyone who says he has an o-u device is a friend of humanity and he is on our side. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 10:31:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07225; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:27:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:27:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910132745.007a3100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:27:45 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: John Logajan's webantics In-Reply-To: <008101befb29$54dc30a0$0101a8c0 john> References: <3.0.6.32.19990909155112.00799e40 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"cJl8m2.0.lm1.S-Jst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30164 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's interesting. The cable modems work about as well as I would have predicted. They will probably be a lot better in a few years. You wrote: >As for performance, they say things like "up to 50 times faster." >But typical downloads are only 5-15 times faster. Hmmmm . . . Where do they say things like that? In their advertising or brochures? In their contract? They better watch what they say, or they better lay on the small print thickly. It might be construed as consumer fraud. Many high-tech offerings, and many claims about computers, software and nifty gadgets, border on fraud. Honestly, that's why I hate to see school districts spend so much on computers. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 10:32:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA07845; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:29:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:29:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910132939.007a5100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:29:39 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990910132122.007a0ae0 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"boJn12.0.Vw1.C0Kst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30165 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks to the wonders of voice input, I wrote: >You should put words in our mouth, Mitch. I resent that. Meant NOT. Obviously. And I do resent the allegation and the alligator, as they once said on radio. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 11:17:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28633; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:08:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:05:05 EDT Subject: Re: Brouhaha averted at ACS To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"jMi6I1.0.J_6.yZKst" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30166 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira, What was that about a presentation of some of Mills' work at the ACS western regional meeting? Do you know the title of the paper or who's delivering it? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 11:20:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA28654; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:08:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:05:08 EDT Subject: Re: Glow discharge info. To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"qMxI31.0.a_6.1aKst" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30167 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, How about a summary of this large message, or highlight excerpts? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 11:35:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02945; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:33:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:33:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910143310.007a32b0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:33:10 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Glow discharge info. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zbQUi1.0.sj.lxKst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30168 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Stolper writes: >How about a summary of this large message, or highlight excerpts? There isn't much to say. It is mostly graphs and my speculation about them. I don't think the converstation would make sense without the graphs (assuming it makes sense with 'em). It is a discussion of the heat burst that occured on July 8, Run #5. There are some peculiar aspects, such as the fact that the temperature fell by 0.8 deg C between two 10 second data points, which equals a loss of 3,680 joules. That's impossible. The cell cannot lose that much heat in 10 seconds. It must be either an instrument artifact, perhaps induced by RF, or a hot spot in unmixed electrolyte. I don't know which. I find it difficult to talk about these things without graphs. I can't keep things straight. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 12:21:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA14768; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:50:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:50:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910145040.0079d880 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:50:40 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Glow discharge info. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990910143310.007a32b0 pop.mindspring.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pkBnP.0.gc3.BCLst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30169 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >It must be either an instrument artifact, perhaps induced by RF, >or a hot spot in unmixed electrolyte. I don't know which. I should add that I zapped the data off to Ed Wall, Ed Storms, Scott Little and Fred Sparber, who are sometimes participants in this forum. They know more about these things than I do. Perhaps they can comment. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 12:58:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20387; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:43:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:43:34 -0700 Message-ID: <027301befbcc$e1aa7f20$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: "Jed Rothwell" Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:40:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"lhVUW3.0.S-4.czLst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30170 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I took a coffee cup with inside dimensions 4.445 cm dia x 7.62 cm deep, filled with water out of the tap (27 C?) and stuck in one of those 200 watt immersion heaters that clip on to the side of the cup and timed how long it took to bring it to a boil (94.4 C at this altitude). It took 127 seconds. 127*200 = 25,400 joules. For a 67 deg rise, 280.5 joules/ gram times 118.25 grams = 33,169 Joules (if I calculated right). 33,169/25,400 = 1.30? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 13:30:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06932; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:27:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:27:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37D96A0E.A7D7FF05 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:29:02 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: USPTO Investigation on CF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V4hUL2.0.Di1.xcMst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30171 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't recall this being posted here. I appologize if it is a duplicate. Terry <><><><><><><><><> Hal Fox President, Fusion Information Center INVESTIGATION OF PATENT OFFICE Special Agent Kimberlee Taylor Office of the Inspector General Commerce Department Room 7614 14th and Constitution, NW Washington, DC 20230 Phone 202-482-0909 Fax 202-501-0710 Due to complaints about the reluctance of the Office of Patents and Trademarks to allow any patent applications for cold fusion, or low-energy nuclear reactions to be processed beyond being rejected, an investigation has been ordered. Special Agent Kimberlee Taylor has been asked to get information about the complaints against the actions of the Office of Patents and Trademarks and report back to her supervisor. Dr. Mitchell Swartz has sent 35 pounds of papers, books, and 3 videos to Ms. Taylor. Hal Fox has written a four-page summary of the events that have attempted to dismiss cold fusion as bad science. It is believed that this investigation has been caused by citizens writing to their elected officials (Senators and Members of Congress). It is further strongly suggested that the best possible help for the support of this investigation will be a considerable expression of concern from our Senators and Members of Congress. PLEASE WRITE THE MEMBER OF CONGRESS FROM YOUR DISTRICT AND BOTH SENATORS FROM YOUR STATE. Send a copy to Ms. Kimberlee Taylor. A brief summary of the history of the attempts to stop the development of cold fusion is posted at ????? [ check http://www.padrak.com/ine ] (Dr. Bailey put in a hot button or something and post the attachment) Please help this important investigation by sharing this message with everyone you can, especially via the internet. Here are salient features: The United States is the only nation to deny inventors the right to patent cold fusion and low-energy nuclear reactions inventions. Why? Of over 3,000 technical papers on cold fusion (many theory and review papers) over 600 papers from over 200 scientific laboratories from precisely 30 countries have reported success in replicating or extending the original discovery of Professors Pons and Fleischmann. Over 100 cold fusion (new-hydrogen energy) patents have issued in Japan. Seven international conferences have been held on cold fusion with an estimated 200 or more scientists attending each conference. Is it conceivable that all of this time and effort by world-class scientists would be spent on a scientific fraud? Two groups offer kits for sale with MONEY-BACK GUARANTEES of success. Professor John Dash is preparing to sell cold fusion kits to high schools. His summer classes for entering science students and interested high-school students have had successful cold fusion experiments every summer for several years. The person in the Office of Patents and Trademarks who is the supervisor of the activity to handle the class of inventions that include cold fusion and low-energy nuclear reactions is Harvey Bhrendt. He is reported to state that cold fusion is not real because there are no commercial products on the market. Perhaps he hasn't heard about the products that are being offered for sale with a money-back guarantee. Perhaps he realizes that it is very difficult to commercial a product without patent protection. The big issue is the denial to U.S. inventors of their constitutional rights to the protection of their inventions! ========================================== Here is the background information faxed to Special Agent Taylor: Dear Ms. Kimberlee Taylor, We have been informed that you are interested in information regarding cold fusion and low-energy nuclear reactions and the policy of the Office of Patents and Trademarks with respect to patent applications. The following information may be of some interest: A. BACKGROUND As the director of the first research laboratory at the University of Utah Research Park, I was intensely interested in the March 23, 1989 announcement of cold fusion called by the University of Utah administration (not called by Pons and Fleischmann). The announcement of a new source of energy was most exciting to me. That day I began the plans for trying to be of some help (systems engineering background, missile system specialist for several years). By mid April 1989 we had organized the Fusion Information Center and obtained offices at the University of Utah Research Park. By July 1989, we had decided that information gathering and publishing such information would be our best role. Our first edition of Fusion Facts was published in July 1989 and continued as a monthly publication for several years before being incorporated as a part of the Journal of New Energy, a peer-reviewed, quarterly, scientific journal (abstracted from the first issue by Chemical Abstracts -- the world's foremost scientific abstracting organization). B. THE ATTACKS ON COLD FUSION By the fall of 1989 it was apparent that someone had organized and was carrying out a campaign against the new technology of cold fusion. Here are the facts, insofar, as we have been able to gather and publish the facts. Please note that all of this was done in secrecy (except for the ERAB sub committee). A subcommittee of the Energy Research Advisory Board traveled to various laboratories where successes in cold fusion had been claimed. If the research was measuring neutrons, they were told that it was background radiation. If the researcher was getting tritium, they were told that it was contamination. If excess heat was being produced, they were told that they didn't have proper calorimetry. Except for one small paragraph in the ERAB final report, demanded by one of the honest members of the committee, the report was entirely negative about cold fusion. An arrangement was made for someone in the Office of Patents (any type of coercion or reward is unknown) to ensure that no cold fusion patent application was accepted for patenting. Each person, as far as we have been able to determine, was sent the same information: a copy of a newspaper article from the New York Times saying that cold fusion doesn't work; a copy of the paper by 16 Ph.D.s from MIT stating that they could not replicate cold fusion (this is the paper where the authors removed the data showing that they did get a small amount of excess heat). A person (representing powers-that-be in Washington, D.C.) called many of the physics and chemistry departments at major universities in the United States. Here was his message as relayed to me from one such department: "If you have so much as a graduate student working on cold fusion, you will get no contracts out of Washington." All editors of the major scientific journals were contacted and were instructed not to publish articles on cold fusion. All editors but one then set up barriers against cold fusion publications. The one editor who did not accept that type of instruction was Professor George Miley, editor until this year of Fusion Technology, the international journal of the American Nuclear Society. An amount of $30,000 (or $40,000 - different sources) was given to Random House to have a "hatchet job" done against cold fusion. The result was the widely acclaimed (by orchestration) book by Gary Taubes, BAD SCIENCE, THE SHORT LIFE AND WEIRD TIMES OF COLD FUSION, c1993. For one knowledgeable about the cold fusion developments, it is obvious that this book was a deliberate hatchet job. In addition to the above well-orchestrated activities, some appointed, or self-appointed scientists have been very active in traveling to conventions, etc. and doing their best to challenge any positive cold fusion results. Two of these are (were) Dr. Douglas R.O. Morrison (CERN, Switzerland) and Professor John R. Huizenga of University of Rochester (chairman of the ERAB sub committee, if my memory is correct). One of the most active protagonists has been Robert Parks, with some association with the American Physical Society. (The current president of the American Physical Society, in a recent conversation, denies that Robert Parks speaks for the society.) Parks was instrumental in preventing a recent conference from being held in a proffered auditorium in a government facility. Parks has an email list of many people in the DOE and about once a month or more often sends out statements that ridicule any cold fusion or low-energy nuclear reaction experiments, papers, books, etc. Please recognize that this anti-cold-fusion program was a very-well, planned and orchestrated scheme to destroy cold fusion. These were clever and well-done operations. We have been told that were it not for Fusion Facts and its rapid exchange of information of successes in various parts of the world, cold fusion would have been dead. That is more credit than we deserve. C. THE COLLECTION OF PROFESSIONAL PAPERS The Fusion Information Center, Inc. is believed to have accumulated the world's largest collection of papers on cold nuclear fusion, new-hydrogen energy (the Japanese label), low-energy nuclear reactions, and other enhanced energy papers. We have collected and reviewed over 3,000 papers on cold fusion and low-energy nuclear reactions, read the papers, written reviews, and published the reviews. Over 600 papers from over 200 laboratories in 30 countries report some successes in replicating or extending the original work of Pons and Fleischmann. Dr. Mitchell Swartz and I have presented papers on this extensive review of the literature. In addition, this office has published New Energy News, for the past six years. All members of the Institute of New Energy receive this newsletter. In addition, beginning in January 1996, this office began publishing the Journal of New Energy, a quarterly, peer-reviewed, scientific journal. The reason was the lack of professional journals that would publish some of the new-energy and new-science papers. For example, we have published six papers about torsion field fluctuations which report on formerly highly-secret work done by over 25 laboratories in the former USSR. This journal has published two issues providing the proceedings of two International Conferences on Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions. All of this published information (Fusion Facts, New Energy News, & Journal of New Energy), covering a ten-year period, has now been published on a CD-ROM. If a copy of this CD-ROM would be of interest to you, we would be pleased to send you a copy. D. THE ROLE OF THE DOE As is well-known, political appointees to government agencies come and go but the real work of the agency is accomplished by the network of civil servants who bear the burden of continuing and exercising the Congressional mandates for their offices. Here is a summary of the current situation in DOE: The DOE is required by law to handle the disposition of all high-level nuclear wastes including weapons-related liquid wastes (such as at the Hanford Site, Washington state) and the spent-fuel pellets from nuclear power plants and from nuclear submarines. In about 1993 or 1994 a contact was given to the National Research Council to prepare a study on the best methods for separation and/or transmutation of nuclear wastes. The result was the following large publication printed and distributed in 1996: Nuclear Wastes: Technologies for Separations and Transmutation, Committee on Separations Technology and Transmutation Systems, Board on Radioactive Waste Management, Commission on Geosciences, Environment, and Resources, National Research Council, published by National Academy Press, Washington, D.C. c1996 by the National Academy of Sciences. It is not known if the contract was awarded with counsel and advice on the expected outcome. However, the end result was a statement to the effect that there is no known method of handling radioactive wastes that is more cost-effective than geologic storage. That has been and still is the major objective of the DOE - geologic storage. Any proposals that claim to have new technology that will stabilize high-level radioactive wastes are rejected. In one DOE document asking for proposals, it was explicitly stated that no cold fusion proposals would be accepted. Several laboratories, included our own, have demonstrated that there is technology that appears to be effective in transmuting radioactive wastes. None of this work, to our knowledge, is government funded. Apparently, the network of those opposing cold fusion and other low-energy nuclear reactions is most effective throughout the DOE as well as in the appropriate division of the Office of Patents. It is believed that this opposition group is mainly related to the hot-fusion community of scholars and lobbyists and that the activities are being largely supported by federal funds provided to the hot fusion community. /s/ Hal Fox President, Fusion Information Center [for more info also see http://www.infinite-energy.com ] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 14:03:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15511; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:50:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:50:46 -0700 Message-ID: <02ac01befbd6$06bbd9e0$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: "Jed Rothwell" References: <027301befbcc$e1aa7f20$ad441d26 fjsparber> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Correction Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:46:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"8EpQ_.0.Eo3.cyMst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30172 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The coffee cup I.D. is 2.875 inches and the depth was 3.0 inches. The 200 watt "instant" immersion heaters cost $3.00 or less. > I took a coffee cup with inside dimensions 4.445 cm dia x 7.62 cm > deep, filled with water out of the tap (27 C?) and stuck in one of > those 200 watt immersion heaters that clip on to the side of the cup > and timed how long it took to bring it to a boil (94.4 C at this altitude). > > It took 127 seconds. 127*200 = 25,400 joules. > > For a 67 deg rise, 280.5 joules/ gram times 118.25 grams = 33,169 Joules > (if I calculated right). > > 33,169/25,400 = 1.30? :-) > > Regards, Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 14:20:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26047; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:10:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:10:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910171041.007a2cd0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:10:41 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Correction In-Reply-To: <02ac01befbd6$06bbd9e0$ad441d26 fjsparber> References: <027301befbcc$e1aa7f20$ad441d26 fjsparber> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xbgas.0.vM6.XFNst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30173 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: >The coffee cup I.D. is 2.875 inches and the depth was 3.0 inches. > >The 200 watt "instant" immersion heaters cost $3.00 or less. Please, Fred, spare us! No inches!!! As Frankenstein would have said it: Inches BAD, centimeters GOOD. No inches and no geometry. Lookee heah: as long as you are in the kitchen, use a measuring cup and tell us how many ml the cup holds. My coffee cups hold 200 ml, not 100. I measure that every morning with the coffee maker, which is German and marked in 100 ml increments. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 15:02:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22444; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:11 -0700 Message-ID: <02bd01befbdf$1cfa5840$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <027301befbcc$e1aa7f20$ad441d26 fjsparber> <3.0.6.32.19990910171041.007a2cd0@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Correction Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:51:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"juevy1.0.NU5.2uNst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30174 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Jed Rothwell To: Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 2:10 PM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Correction I figure 319 ml, Jed, a couple of subsequent runs ran 240 seconds or less. Fred > Fred wrote: > > >The coffee cup I.D. is 2.875 inches and the depth was 3.0 inches. > > > >The 200 watt "instant" immersion heaters cost $3.00 or less. > > Please, Fred, spare us! No inches!!! As Frankenstein would have said it: > Inches BAD, centimeters GOOD. No inches and no geometry. Lookee heah: as > long as you are in the kitchen, use a measuring cup and tell us how many ml > the cup holds. My coffee cups hold 200 ml, not 100. I measure that every > morning with the coffee maker, which is German and marked in 100 ml > increments. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 15:04:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23243; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:55:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:55:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l eskimo.com Subject: Strange Lights in Turkey Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA23163 Resent-Message-ID: <"7q5YF1.0.pg5.puNst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30176 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 From: "konac pop3.ada.net.tr" Reply-To: konac ada.net.tr To: NOSTRADAMUS Subject: Strange Lights NOSTRADAMUS - http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ Hello everyone, Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I also would like to give you some info about what’s going on here in Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an inevitable component of the TV news and media. Furthermore, just before the quake, the bottom of the sea in Izmit went red and the sea temperature went up to 40-45 degrees C. However, there are no underwater volcanos in the Sea of Marmara!!! Starting two days before the quake, hundreds of fish, crabs and other sea life forms died and not naturally! Somehow, they were burned!!!!! The fish nets of the fishermen were burned and we have several rock and stone samples from the sea, which went black in color. TUVPO (Turkish UFO and Paranormal Organization) is co-operating with the Smithsonian Institute and a few universities in the U.S..We already sent them some rock and burned fishnet samples, upon their request. Folks at TUVPO will hopefully run a spectrum analysis on the video tapes. Some fishermen are also saying that they witnessed an explosion under the sea. And then guess what… Fireballs, strange lights, sightings never ended in Turkey. At the same time more quakes with smaller scales are still ongoing in a wide range of area. As you know Greece was hit by a 5.9 quake a couple of days ago. Hundreds of other quakes vary from 3.5 to 5.2 in Turkey. They can’t be the aftershock quakes because they occur on totally different fault lines. The following are the possibilities that are discussed here as regards to those lights: 1. UFOs 2. Anomalous Lumnious Phenomena (Earth Lights or Earthquake Lights) 3. Sudden release of methane gas from the surface of the Earth as a result of a major quake. (Not likely though) 4. Unknown underwater volcanic activity Well, noone knows what is going on here but I will appreciate your TECHNICAL comments, if you have any. Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with Nosty but I would also be glad if you could provide some info on that so-called Tesla and Plasma Weapon Prototypes. Sincerely, HAKAN --------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web (http://www.mail2web.com/) Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: (http://www.yourhosting.com/) --------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to NOSTRADAMUS-unsubscribe listbot.com MSN Messenger Service lets you stay in touch instantly with your family & friends - Visit http://messenger.msn.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 15:04:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA23080; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990910132122.007a0ae0 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:50:08 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"apOSE2.0.7e5.juNst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30175 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mitchell Jones wrote: > > When you built your own version of Mizuno's "boiled lighting" > cell and tested it, was that "a complete waste of time"? Granted, > the failure of those experiments to be "over unity" did not > settle the issue, since the proponents of the experiment simply > claimed that you didn't do a proper replication. > >No, that never happened. The proponents of the experiment include Mizuno, >Ohmori and me, and none of us has said that Scott Little didn't do a proper >replication. ***{You ignore the obvious. A proper replication would be one which contained no substantive errors. Since Mizuno was "over unity" and Scott wasn't, either Scott didn't do a proper replication, or else Mizuno wasn't over unity. Since you claim Mizuno was over unity, you imply that Scott didn't do a proper replication. Enough said. --Mitchell Jones}*** We never hinted or alleged anything like that. Mizuno himself >clearly stated, for the record, that he has no idea why the replication >failed, as Scott and I reported here. I am sure Scott will agree that is >the only conclusion we have reached. He reviewed my upcoming article for >I.E. and he did not object to my representation of his work. ***{Why would he object to the mere implication that he has made an error somewhere? Given the scurrilous charges that you have routinely hurled at him in the past, I am sure he feels as if he is walking on eggs whenever he finds himself interacting with you, and is relieved when you are not engaged in overt name calling. The fact is that you are extremely thin skinned, brimming with hostility, and are inclined to take offense when none is intended, as here. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >You should not put words in our mouth, Mitch. I resent that. ***{You remind me of Bill Clinton, Jed. Whenever facts threaten to emerge that would put him in a bad light, he manufactures a crisis somewhere, to divert attention from those facts. And that is what you are doing here. First, you impugn Joe Newman's character by suggesting that we all check out a website containing unsubstantiated gossip dredged up from the depths of the gutter, and, when I try to gently steer you back onto the issue of whether his technology works, you then have the unmitigated gall to pretend that *I* have been out of line. Wow! --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > But you doubtlessly learned a lot from those efforts, and the > feedback which you elicited as a result has led you directly to > your more recent, and far better, attempts at replication. . . > [etc. Snipped] > >All of that is true (including the snipped part), but that kind of >cooperation would never happen with Newman. ***{He would be out of his mind if he cooperated with you, that's for sure. --MJ}*** Not in the lifetime of the >universe, as the physicists would say. I do not know about Naudin. ***{I do. Naudin would also be out of his mind if he cooperated with you. --MJ}*** > > > If the Newman motor works as claimed . . . > >The likelihood of that is so small it is hardly worth bothering with. ***{Actually, despite your hot air to the contrary, there appears to be at least as much evidence supporting the possible validity of Newman's technology as there is in favor of just about any other claimed "over unity" device. Granted, the case is not solid by any means, but that is the case elsewhere as well. (For example, even though much touted by you as bona fide "over unity" devices, we still do not know how much He-3 the Case type cells are producing, despite the yawning gap that leaves in the argument.) --Mitchell Jones}*** Other >undeveloped energy devices *do* work, so we should concentrate on them >instead. They range from conventional things like fuel cells to CF. There >is no need to chase after every rumor of a magic motor, and no one would >the time or the money to do it anyway. You must practice ruthless triage. >Admittedly, most mainstream scientists traiged CF straight into the garbage >can in 1989, but that does not count. They did not seriously investigate it >or try to contact the CF scientists. If they had done as much "due >diligent" investigation of CF as others have done with Newman ***{As far as I can see, when "due diligence" has been practiced by competent physicists, the result has tended to come out in Newman's favor. (See the detailed reports of Roger Hastings, J. L. Naudin, and many others.) I also see evidentiary value in the tendency of some of these individuals, after having gained access to Newman's technology, to then turn around and attempt to claim it for themselves. How else, for example, are we to interpret the "patent pending" statement which Norm Biss buried within his venomous screed? (See http://www.voicenet.com/~eric/skeptic/biss.htm, as cited by you in your first post to this thread.) Do you think Biss would attempt to patent a motor which he admits he designed to Newman's specifications, if he thought the technology did not work? --Mitchell Jones}*** , and the CF >scientists had treated them the way Newman treats people, they would be >completely justified in rejecting CF. Indeed, most CF claims should >rejected out of hand, and many self-styled CF "scientists" are quacks and >frauds. (I will not mention any names here, but anyone who reviews the ICCF >proceedings will spot them without difficulty.) > >It is a mistake to take all claims seriously, or to imagine that everyone >who says he has an o-u device is a friend of humanity and he is on our side. ***{The larger mistake is the one which you exhibit in its most virulent form: the tendency to be distracted by personalities. In point of fact, the only thing of long term importance about people who are making "over unity" claims is whether their claims are valid, and no one who is unable to narrow his focus to that question can possibly function competently as a reporter in this area. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >- Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 15:39:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25557; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D9877B.440C4108 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:34:35 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, konac@ada.net.tr, billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X6gBr.0.CF6.TVOst" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30178 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 > From: "konac pop3.ada.net.tr" > Reply-To: konac ada.net.tr > To: NOSTRADAMUS > Subject: Strange Lights > > NOSTRADAMUS - http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ > > Hello everyone, > > Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I > also would like to give you some info about what’s going on here in > Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are > clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular > or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible > in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing > pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been > showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an > inevitable component of the TV news and media. > Well, noone knows what is going on here but I will appreciate your > TECHNICAL comments, if you have any. Sorry, I know this has nothing > to do with Nosty but I would also be glad if you could provide some info > on that so-called Tesla and Plasma Weapon Prototypes. > > Sincerely, > > HAKAN Tom Bearden discusses the Tesla weapon at: http://www.dnai.com/~zap/howitzer.htm Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 16:32:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29931; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:29:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:29:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9944D.C3DB2AC0 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:29:17 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? References: <027301befbcc$e1aa7f20$ad441d26 fjsparber> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-fjhf.0.bJ7.WHPst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30179 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maybe some loops of wires of the heater were in short circuit. :) Frederick Sparber wrote: > > I took a coffee cup with inside dimensions 4.445 cm dia x 7.62 cm > deep, filled with water out of the tap (27 C?) and stuck in one of > those 200 watt immersion heaters that clip on to the side of the cup > and timed how long it took to bring it to a boil (94.4 C at this altitude). > > It took 127 seconds. 127*200 = 25,400 joules. > > For a 67 deg rise, 280.5 joules/ gram times 118.25 grams = 33,169 Joules > (if I calculated right). > > 33,169/25,400 = 1.30? :-) > > Regards, Frederick Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 16:43:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05601; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:20:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:20:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Alligator AFFIDAVIT In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990910132939.007a5100 pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"UvmN51.0.RN1.qGOst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30177 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This was NOT a "they" .. this was said by a "he" The setting: Kingfish is in fron of the judge, trying to "help" Amos and Andy. The judge is listening to a story from Kingfish ... and the story is becoming more twisted upon willfully wandering ... when, all of a sudden the judge catches himself up short. The judge asks if Kingfish is the SAME Kingfish who appeared in his court some months earlier, where Kingfish, indignantly, asserts "Not only do I resents the alligation I resents the ALLIGATOR!" Science truths of the day Physics "Benjamin Franklin invented electricity by rubbing two cats backwards" Biology Snakes do NOT use sneakers with laces because it is very hard to tie laces with their LIPS.... and this is why you will almost ALWAYS see the snakes wearing "tenny-quicks" with Velcro closures." On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Thanks to the wonders of voice input, I wrote: > > >You should put words in our mouth, Mitch. I resent that. > > Meant NOT. Obviously. And I do resent the allegation and the alligator, as > they once said on radio. > > - Jed > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 17:06:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA13478; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:02:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:02:16 -0700 MR-Received: by mta EUROPA; Relayed; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:21:10 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta GOSIP; Relayed; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:52:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Briggs 614-752-0199 Subject: Re: New Saturna Technologies web address In-reply-to: To: vortex-l Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E2209ZYCEOT208 X400-MTS-identifier: [;01127101909991/4102640 ODNVMS] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Resent-Message-ID: <"A6WDF.0.VI3.7mPst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30180 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John, Based in Palo Alto California my work under the auspices of Saturna Technologies Inc. involves an expanding collaborative international network of researchers, scientists, and engineers. We pursue work on development of controlled nuclear reactions in condensed matter and commercial energy applications that make use of these reactions. Most of the work focuses on solid state deuterium reactions (SSDR) reproducibly observed in various solids saturated with hydrogen isotopes. These reactions have been profoundly demonstrated using experiments including those involving catalysis, nano-technology, electro-chemistry, glow-discharge, and ultrasonic cavitation. The great blessing of our experiments is that so far NO energetic penetrating radiation signatures including neutrons and gammas have been observed in our unique SSDR experiments. This is not to say that no radiation is present as the quantitative measure of 4He which is born as "alpha radiation" shows intense alpha radiation production. Even in very small experiments the alpha radiation flux is more than 10 billion emitted alphas per second. (Compare this with the conventional neutron beam research devices we use to explore materials taking neutrons from the core of a fission based nuclear reactor provides a mere 10 million neutron emissions per/cm2/second.) Fortunately alpha radiation (helium nuclei) is completely arrested by traveling through only a few atoms of matter and upon stopping becomes helium. No radiation escapes the reaction vessels. Our work has led us to collaborations with many leading fusion research organizations in the world including those in the more traditional HOT fusion arena. HOT fusion is a path to fusion energy that the world has made a major long term commitment to. The Goliath Tokamaks of which there are perhaps 3 or 4 operating in the world have taken 40 years and untold billions of dollars to develop. They draw hundreds to thousands of megawatts of power when turned on for brief HOT fusion experiments lasting a few seconds. During those few seconds of HOT fusion they produce intense penetrating neutron radiation which as yet has proven to be a major obstacle to the technology as the neutron radiation simply destroys the materials that make up the Tokamak. Perhaps very soon we will be performing SSDR experiments alongside HOT fusion experiments and enjoy the benefit of the great wealth of expertise and know how developed in the decades of work in those labs. One exception to the "no penetrating radioactive emission rule" of these simple technologies produces small quantities of tritium (~1 million tritons per second) in very special experiments. Tritium is a heavy isotope of hydrogen and which beta decays to 3He with a half life of about 12 years. Currently the United States uses about $1 billion dollars of tritium per year for domestic non-military applications like emergency lighting, luminous watch dials, and medical biological uses. An important facet of tritium production is that this clearly shows that several perhaps many cold fusion reaction pathways exist. A promising materials research area with important ramifications to these SSDR reactions is that of nanotechnology. When matter begins to condense in very small domains of a few tens of nanometers we observe that the properties of matter change dramatically from what we've been accustomed to observing in the macro regime. It has been clear for some time that the reactions we work with are not a uniform bulk phenomena but rather must be produced within some unusual domain that is quite extraordinary. Studies of the micro - nano domains within active materials has led to some understanding of the nature of the materials required to enable these reactions. As alternative fusion reaction pathways came into the world in 1989 many scientists knew the loading of deuterium into metals could be accomplished by simply placing metal powders in contact with deuterium gas. The efficiency of how this works is largely dependent on the size of the particle and how well dispersed it is to maintain contact with the gas. The expectation is that the smallest particles are the most efficient at absorbing deuterium. Early reports by Scaramuzzi in Italy and Menlove at Los Alamos National Laboratory confirmed that the signature of nuclear reactions was present in such gas loading experiments with small particles of various hydrogen loving metals (many others reported similar results). Working from this obvious starting point a number of people moved in the direction of using nanotechnology to produce especially active materials wherein these reactions are more predictably produced. Our most active efforts at this time are focused on reproducing special nano-structured materials for use in experiments which produce both anomalous heat and nuclear products (primarily 4He). These nanotechnological experimental protocols have the benefit of being very readily reproduced, robust, and lend themselves to being scaled to large size. Recently we have confirmed, using high resolution real time on-line mass spectroscopy, that helium is indeed produced in abundant amounts from nano-powders of palladium. More information on this area typified by work we call CATALYTIC FUSION is being prepared. Recently reported in conference news (July 99) Society for Scientific Explorations 18th Annual Meeting, University of New Mexico in Albuquerque June 3, 1999 "Dr. Michael McKubre (of SRI International) spoke on June 3, 1999 at the Society for Scientific Explorations 18th Annual Meeting, which was held at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque. McKubre reiterated the SRI results first divulged at the APS meeting in March 99 by Russ George of Saturna Technologies, Inc. He described the now famous experiment that produced a steady heat output and monotonic increase of helium reaching about 11 ppm from day 5 to 30 of the run (about twice the laboratory and standard atmospheric background of 5.2 ppm). This and similar experiments at SRI employed sealed 50 cc metal cells connected to a sensitive mass spectrometer, which is well able to separate out the D2 peak from the 4He peak. A control cell containing H2 gas produced absolutely no excess heat or helium. McKubre suggested that excess heat output of about 0.25 to 0.5 watt was possible evidence for the fusion reaction of two deuterium nuclei to helium-4 with an energy release of about 23.8 MeV. The most important news is that SRI has run about a dozen similar cells, with a success rate of about one in two or three." Catalytic - Nano Fusion Since the announcement in the spring of 1989 that cold fusion occurs in the presence of palladium and deuterium many people have assumed something akin to catalysis must be producing the reactions. After all palladium has long been known as one of the most useful hydrogenation catalysts and any reaction where hydrogen and palladium are combined might have something to do with the catalytic properties of palladium. Work by many scientists including those now working with STI dating back to 1989 have reported evidence which hints of catalytic like activity when deuterium is applied under different catalytic like conditions with palladium and other platinum group metals. Particular attention to this issue has been provided Scaramuzzi of Italy, Menlove of Los Alamos National Labs, Srinivasn of the Bhaba Institute in India, Donald Cram (Nobel Laureate in Chemistry) at UCLA, Yoshiaki Arata of Osaka, and more recently by Les Case of New Hampshire (who attributes his getting on the trail of catalytic fusion to his hearing of the work of Dr. E. Yamaguchi of NTT labs in Japan.) Currently Russ George STI Chief Scientist is collaborating with several of these scientists on studies of the nano-chemical nature of the catalyst materials as well as on demonstration of the catalytic fusion technology in leading U.S. National Laboratories. Experiments are underway under with an on-line mass spectrometers capable of real time on-line quantitative measure of the 4He and 3He, the principal nuclear signature products of these reactions. Additional attention is being focused on the engineering needed to scale the process to commercial size. Recent data has shown irrefutable evidence of production of 4He in a catalytic fusion experiment conducted using an on-line Extrel quadrapole Mass Spectrometer owned by the Electric Power Research Institute and located in a laboratory at SRI International in Menlo Park, California. The experiment revealed a steadily increasing concentration of 4He over a period of 4 weeks. At the start of the experiment the concentration of 4He in deuterium gas was measured in the sealed experiment at under 1 ppm, by the end of the experiment the concentration had risen to over 10ppm. This method of catalytic fusion introduces deuterium to a suitable proprietary hydrogenation catalyst under specific catalysis conditions. The nano particles of palladium (and other platinum group catalyst metals) in association with certain catalyst support material produce anomalous heating and helium when in the presence of deuterium. Sono Fusion Another specialty technique we work with is SONOFUSION a branch of physical acoustics closely related to the popularly known phenomenon sonoluminescence. Sonoluminescence is a phenomenon where tiny bubbles created and sustained with sound waves in a liquid are observed to cavitate (grow and collapse) in the sound field and emit a faint blue white light. The source and nature of the light is the subject of a grand mystery and the focus of many academic research projects. In some of our work at we take cavitation a step further and utilize the energy concentration effects within a collapsing bubble to produce and control nuclear reactions in the associated solid state lattices, Sonofusion. This work derives from the pioneering efforts of many scientists who have innovative original patents in this arena including Flynn, Fukushima, Crum, Suslick, Putterman, Stringham, George, and others. Double Structure Palladium Cathode Electrochemical Cold Fusion Experiments Having had the opportunity to spend many months with and in the laboratory of Dr. Y. Arata of Osaka and then helping to bring the Arata Double Structure Cathode experiments to SRI International we are now committed to constructing and operating our own DS cathode experiments. Initial results are very promising for this methodology as the efforts in our own labs and those of SRI are proving highly productive. This is a technology very well suited for technology transfer to laboratories wishing to have cold fusion experiments operating and producing the effect in a timely and efficient fashion. The apparatus is rather simple in form though very complicated to fabricate. Untutored attempts to replicate the DS cathode experiment have not met with success due to unexpected features intrinsic in the materials and assembly methods. You can read some of Arata's earlier results using this technique in his 1997 Japan Academy Paper. Details on obtaining assistance in acquiring and setting up double structure cathode type experiments is available on our lab devices page. Deuterium Electro-Migration Experiments Research is also underway on the application of electro-migration of hydrogen isotopes where materials loaded with hydrogen isotopes are subjected to powerful electro-migration currents. This has the feature of concentrating the hydrogen isotopes in defined regions. This new protocol offers an opportunity to dynamically control and study the loading ratios of hydrogen isotope : solid matrix. Development of advanced materials highly suited to hydrogen conduction and coherent behavior are the key to this work. A range of unexpected phenomena have been observed using this protocol including high temperature superconductivity. Technology Transfer In all of our work our goal is directed toward developing commercial heat technologies. At present however we are dedicated to the design, manufacture, and distribution of the worlds first line of laboratory research instruments that reliably produce these "cold fusion" reactions on demand. Energy researchers and physicists find these instruments the perfect tools to further research and development goals in this new domain of physics and nuclear energy production. Bonafide scientists wishing to establish a collaborative working relationship are invited to contact the author at rgeorge rsrch.com Bill webriggs concentric.net briggs XLNsystems.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 17:24:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA20288; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:21:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:21:07 -0700 Message-ID: <02dd01befbf3$a769b520$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <027301befbcc$e1aa7f20$ad441d26 fjsparber> <37D9944D.C3DB2AC0@verisoft.com.tr> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:18:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"vYMhz2.0.wy4.p1Qst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30181 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: hamdi ucar To: Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 4:29 PM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Hi Hamdi, you wrote: > Maybe some loops of wires of the heater were in short circuit. :) This Brand New, right out of the wrapper, Underwriters labeled 200 watt "instant" coffee cup immersion heater, (made in Taiwan) has a short circuit? :-) With 68 deg F (20 deg C) initial temperature and a boiling point of 94.4 C that leaves a temperature rise of 94.4-20 = 74.4 deg C. Measured the cup holds Exactly 250 ml of water according to a kitchen measuring cup ( I had calculated 319 ml) with room for the heating element. 74.4*4.187*250 = 77,878 joules to get from 20 C to 94.4 C At 200 watts or 200 joule/second at 4 minutes (240 seconds) = 48,000 joules not counting the heat going into the cup and heater unit, C.O.P. = 1.622 for a couple of runs. I was only cobbing up an experiment that would tend to support the theory of Light Lepton-Neutrino Pair production from Infrared photons in water, at 500 deg K or less. In this temperature range the Ion Product increases by 2 orders of magnitude, not to mention the Na+ ions that my water softener adds to the water from my 100 foot private well. Need some careful measurements here, right? :-) Regards, Frederick > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > > I took a coffee cup with inside dimensions 4.445 cm dia x 7.62 cm > > deep, filled with water out of the tap (27 C?) and stuck in one of > > those 200 watt immersion heaters that clip on to the side of the cup > > and timed how long it took to bring it to a boil (94.4 C at this altitude). > > > > It took 127 seconds. 127*200 = 25,400 joules. > > > > For a 67 deg rise, 280.5 joules/ gram times 118.25 grams = 33,169 Joules > > (if I calculated right). > > > > 33,169/25,400 = 1.30? :-) > > > > Regards, Frederick > > Regards, hamdi ucar > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 17:29:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA23223; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:28:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:28:40 -0700 Message-ID: <19990911002806.12288.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [128.174.36.215] From: "e lewis" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:28:06 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"-6e2p2.0.ig5.u8Qst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30182 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This recent email about the UFO lights seems very interesting to me. Such lights are actually somewhat commonly seen. I wrote up a web site at http://207.225.33.111 On there is an article about Gorgons and other articles where I try to show the relationship of cold fusion and earth volcanoes. Ed >From: William Beaty >Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com >To: freenrg-l eskimo.com >Subject: Strange Lights in Turkey >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:55 -0700 (PDT) > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 >From: "konac pop3.ada.net.tr" >Reply-To: konac ada.net.tr >To: NOSTRADAMUS >Subject: Strange Lights > >NOSTRADAMUS - http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ > >Hello everyone, > >Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I >also would like to give you some info about what’s going on here in >Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are >clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular >or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible >in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing >pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been >showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an >inevitable component of the TV news and media. > >Furthermore, just before the quake, the bottom of the sea in Izmit went >red and the sea temperature went up to 40-45 degrees C. However, >there are no underwater volcanos in the Sea of Marmara!!! Starting two >days before the quake, hundreds of fish, crabs and other sea life forms >died and not naturally! Somehow, they were burned!!!!! The fish nets of >the fishermen were burned and we have several rock and stone >samples from the sea, which went black in color. TUVPO (Turkish UFO >and Paranormal Organization) is co-operating with the Smithsonian >Institute and a few universities in the U.S..We already sent them some >rock and burned fishnet samples, upon their request. Folks at TUVPO >will hopefully run a spectrum analysis on the video tapes. Some >fishermen are also saying that they witnessed an explosion under the >sea. And then guess what… Fireballs, strange lights, sightings never >ended in Turkey. At the same time more quakes with smaller scales are >still ongoing in a wide range of area. As you know Greece was hit by a >5.9 quake a couple of days ago. Hundreds of other quakes vary from >3.5 to 5.2 in Turkey. They can’t be the aftershock quakes because >they occur on totally different fault lines. > >The following are the possibilities that are discussed here as regards to >those lights: > >1. UFOs >2. Anomalous Lumnious Phenomena (Earth Lights or Earthquake >Lights) >3. Sudden release of methane gas from the surface of the Earth as a >result of a major quake. (Not likely though) >4. Unknown underwater volcanic activity > >Well, noone knows what is going on here but I will appreciate your >TECHNICAL comments, if you have any. Sorry, I know this has nothing >to do with Nosty but I would also be glad if you could provide some info >on that so-called Tesla and Plasma Weapon Prototypes. > >Sincerely, > >HAKAN > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >This message has been posted from Mail2Web (http://www.mail2web.com/) >Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: (http://www.yourhosting.com/) >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >______________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe, write to NOSTRADAMUS-unsubscribe listbot.com >MSN Messenger Service lets you stay in touch instantly with >your family & friends - Visit http://messenger.msn.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 17:38:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA26313; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:34:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:34:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9A4C0.D0B12BEB ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:39:29 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" , "Tstolper aol.com" Subject: Re: Brouhaha averted at ACS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bleRZ.0.uQ6.cEQst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30183 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept. 10. 1999 Tom, It was a mention made in another conversation off of Vortex that Mills (himself) was going to make a presentation on Tuesday in the upcoming ACS meeting. I have not made any effort to confirm this tidbit to be true or not. Presumably, it would concern his Hydrino interest. Jed's earlier post on the ACS regional meeting schedule included the link to the regional meeting website. It should be an easy matter to get more information on this from the organizers. -AK- Tom asked: > What was that about a presentation of some of Mills' work at the ACS western > regional meeting? Do you know the title of the paper or who's delivering it? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 17:48:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA30644; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:44:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:44:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9A734.E2A93838 ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:49:56 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 10, 1999] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E029BA00A8F6F4B7245E6C34" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ot2-m1.0.YU7.qNQst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30184 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E029BA00A8F6F4B7245E6C34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------E029BA00A8F6F4B7245E6C34 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from hq.aps.org ([149.28.112.5]) by mail01.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with ESMTP id rtj2uc.jae.33qs885 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:53:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from whatsnew localhost) by hq.aps.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA18740; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909102224.SAA18740 hq.aps.org> To: aki ix.netcom.com From: "What's New" Subject: What's New for Sep 10, 1999 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 10 Sep 99 Washington, DC 1. CTBT: IS THIS THE BIG PUSH--OR JUST THE BIG NOISE? Shortly before fleeing Washington's August steam bath, Senate Democrats promised they were about to turn up the heat on Jesse Helms (R- NC) to hold hearings on the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, which has languished on Helm's desk for two years (WN 23 Jul 99). Helms refuses to hold hearings on CTBT until he has a chance to kill the Kyoto accord and the hated 1972 ABM Treaty. Wednesday, the first day back in session, Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND), in an impassioned speech, threatened to "plant himself" on the Senate floor and block other Senate business unless CTBT is put on the agenda for consideration this fall. He stopped just short of using the "f" word (that's "filibuster"). Meanwhile, the White House is planning a few media events of its own. Is this the "big push" that's been promised for over a year (WN 12 Jun 98)? No! A key Congressional Democrat confided to WN that it's just theater, but he added that it could get serious by spring. With polls showing strong public support for CTBT, Democrats might prefer to have the issue debated during the election campaign. 2. BUDGET: HOUSE COUNTS ON THE SENATE TO RESTORE SCIENCE FUNDS. By a vote of 235-187 the almost-leaderless House passed a VA-HUD- Independent Agencies appropriation bill that would cut the White House request for NASA by about $1B and NSF by $285M. The huge NASA cuts would fall heavily on space science programs while leaving the space station untouched. The annual attempt by Tim Roemer (D-IN) to kill the orbiting turkey was easily defeated. Many members who ended up voting for the bill are apparently counting on the Senate to restore funds for NSF and NASA. 3. SPY HYSTERIA: DOE SPELLS OUT ITS PLAN FOR POLYGRAPH EXAMS. The proposed rule, published in the 18 August Federal Register, states that exams are "voluntary," but that those who decline to be tested could lose their security clearance and be transferred to less sensitive jobs. There will be a series of public hearings next month, at which employees can protest, but Congress will already have passed the Defense Authorization Bill (S.1059) directing the DOE to carry out regular polygraph exams. 4. EVOLUTION: PARENTS OF YOUNG SCIENTIST PROTEST "WATERING DOWN." Remember Emily Rosa who tested "touch therapists" for a fourth- grade science fair project? She gained nationwide acclaim after her results were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (WN 3 Apr 98). Now in the eighth grade, Emily came home one day and announced that her teacher was giving evolution the "it's-JUST-a-theory" treatment. This, it turns out, was in accordance with a local school board decision. According to the Ft. Collins Coloradoan, her parents have protested to the board that teaching watered-down evolution will deprive Emily and her classmates of the background they need to enter a science field. THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) --------------E029BA00A8F6F4B7245E6C34-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 18:02:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA04334; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:59:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:59:00 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:19:15 -0700 Subject: What we've all been looking for ??? Message-ID: <19990910.165717.-491615.0.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"1suLC3.0.Y31.KbQst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30185 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This looks serious: http://www.entropysystems.com/ Tim ( tv juno.com ) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 18:03:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04608; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:00:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:00:26 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:04:39 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: ExplainRe: Resolution of the Wave/ Parrticle duality In-Reply-To: <37D7E864.2BBD ca-ois.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RM5Ji3.0.u71.fcQst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30186 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jim, Can you explaing a little better? I am lost among the terms, thanks On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > Dear vo: > > I have the idea that the production of photon counts by the impingement > of a > frequency of radiation opon a metal has an analog in straightforward > electronic wave theory that goes something like this: > > particle theory: > > a radiation of sufficiently high frequency impinges upon a metal surface > and stimulates the ejection of a photelectron of a specific angular > mometum, the intensity of this radiation has no effect on the velocity > of the ejected photoelectron, only their number. > > That is, more intense radiation of the same frequency will stimulate the > ejection of more photelectrons at the same velocity, hence the angular > momentum of individual photelectrons remains tha same, it's just that > you will get more of them as the intensity is increased. Below a certain > threshold frerquency, no photoelectrons will be ejected, ie the binding > energy cannot be overcome because the input energy is dissipated too > quickly by the metal surface. Reducing the frequency of the incoming > radiation will reduce the velocity of the ejected photoelectrons until > none can be ejected. Therefore he ejection of photelectrons seems to be > the result of the build up of a dc potential by the metal surface by > storing the energy of the incoming radiation, the way I see it. > > The above mechanism has an analog in a normal electronic circuit, the > bridge rectifier feeding a capacitor which transforms the incoming AC > energy out of the wall socket into a dc potential in a capacitor. If > the capacitor were shunted to ground across a apark gap, then at some > point as the capacitor becomes charged an arc will occurr. The energy in > this arc will always the same quantifiable value in joules. However if > the frequency of the wall socket ac is reduced, a point will be reached > where the capacitor does not become charged sufficiently to eject > electrons accross the gap because whaever energy is there is dissipated > by load resistance or dc leakage of the capacitor. Increasing the > frequency of the wall socket ac would result in the production of more > arcs per second, yet, the energy value in joules of each individual arc > would reamain the same (more "photon" counts, but the same energy value > per photon). > > Jim Ostrowski > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 18:03:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04699; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:00:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:00:37 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: USPTO Investigation on CF Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:07:21 -0400 Message-ID: <19990911010721578.AAA82 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"bL5951.0.G91.pcQst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30187 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Hal, Mitch, Gene et. al. Another direction that you can point your finger with regards to Big Business influencing the energy research policy in this country is at Archer Daniels Midland. This, of course, is in addition to EXXON, Mobile, Texaco, ad nauseum. The recent signing by Clinton of a multi-million dollar research commitment to gasahol or biomass fuel technologies was largely intended to benefit ADM, who is now the largest food producer, and would obviously become the largest supplier of agricultural waste should there be any major shift to manufacturing biomass fuels. ADM has historically been a HUGE contributor to both of the main political parties in this country, as well as, the ruling parties of smaller countries in which it "does business". ADM has even been implicated in starting wars in small countries where the farmers didn't initially go along with ADM's policies of expansion, pollution, and economic enslavement. A shift from an oil based economy to a biomass-energy/food based economy would effectively put ADM in the position of being the most powerful corporation in the world, able to either manipulate the price or completely deny both fuel and food to any country that it wanted, independently of any political decision or open debate. While I am encouraged by the fact that Special Agent Tayler answers her mail, I have heard too many times from official investigating bodies that we should write to our Congresspeople or take the matter to a civil court to think that it will make any difference. Our Congress, in many cases our court system, and most recently our President, have proven repeatedly that the interests of big business and the will of the corporation take precedence over everything else. If Special Agent Taylor wishes to do the American people, and the rest of the world for that matter, any real service, she should consider actually reading the material that has been provided to her, and actually perform an investigation into the corruption of our elected officials, the USPTO, and our DOE with regard to where our public money is going and for what purpose. Writing letters to people who have accepted large amounts of money from a very small number of special interests just doesn't work. The public money that has recently been successfully diverted to the ADM benefitting biomass fuel research should be going to technologies that are truly non-polluting, and offer the the public real freedom and independence from the parasitic large corporate interests. If Special Agent Taylor thinks otherwise, then she should just come out and say so, but I think I can safely say that the vast majority of people in this country feel that a full scale investigation with criminal convictions of the people responsible is long overdue. The behavior of the corporate community has quite simply become blatantly monstrous and intolerable. It has undermined the democratic process, educational system, health care system, and everything else that this country was intended to have. The days of the corporate "Growth is God" philosophy must come to an end, and the ability of the people to decide for themselves their own options for energy, food, education, and the pursuit of happiness must be taken back. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From commengr bellsouth.net Fri Sep 10 15:35:28 1999 Received: from smtp-out.kivex.com (smtp-out.kivex.com [204.177.32.18]) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25304; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bellsouth.net ([209.135.217.164]) by smtp-out.kivex.com (8.8.8/8.8.7-KIVEX) with ESMTP id SAA20234; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D9877B.440C4108 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:34:35 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, konac@ada.net.tr, billb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Strange Lights in Turkey References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:59 -0400 > From: "konac pop3.ada.net.tr" > Reply-To: konac ada.net.tr > To: NOSTRADAMUS > Subject: Strange Lights > > NOSTRADAMUS - http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/ > > Hello everyone, > > Since Red mentioned about the strange lights seen in South Oregon, I > also would like to give you some info about what’s going on here in > Turkey. Well, ever since the earthquake, some very strange lights are > clearly seen all over Western Turkey. They are incredibly clear, circular > or triangular in shape, white, yellow, red and blue colored, remain visible > in the sky for 5 to 20 minutes, following a materializing-dematerializing > pattern. The funny thing is it became a routine thing as they have been > showing up twice or three times a week recently. They became an > inevitable component of the TV news and media. > Well, noone knows what is going on here but I will appreciate your > TECHNICAL comments, if you have any. Sorry, I know this has nothing > to do with Nosty but I would also be glad if you could provide some info > on that so-called Tesla and Plasma Weapon Prototypes. > > Sincerely, > > HAKAN Tom Bearden discusses the Tesla weapon at: http://www.dnai.com/~zap/howitzer.htm Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 18:58:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA24682; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:54:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:54:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:59:07 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: free E , John Schnurer Subject: Re: What we've all been looking for ??? In-Reply-To: <19990910.165717.-491615.0.tv juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Ll3ic2.0.G16.kPRst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30188 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., NOTE: My posts do not go to frenergy. I went to this page. This is a nice heat motor.... a prime mover that runs on low levels, or "low grade" heat. The first commercial product is not out yet. You can buy industrial model is USD $ 75,000 .oo ... yes, 75K dollars. This is NOT free energy. It IS a good heat engine. I really hope they get it up, if it was reasonable, I would buy it, I would drive mine with the sun and use some of the energy to break water to H and O for use at night. They have my respect. On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Tim Vaughn wrote: > This looks serious: > > http://www.entropysystems.com/ > > Tim > ( tv juno.com ) > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 20:20:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA18459; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:17:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:17:23 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-l eskimo.com, herman@college.antioch-college.edu Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:11:36 -0700 Subject: Re: What we've all been looking for ??? Message-ID: <19990910.191147.-491615.2.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-10,14-15,18-19,22-23,25,27-28,34-46,48-49,51,53,55,57,59-60,62-63,65,67-68,70-71,73-75,77-110 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"_YOCO.0.LW4.0dSst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30189 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >John said: >This is NOT free energy. It IS a good heat engine. Are you sure, John? The inventor claims it creates its own heat sink in an ambient heat medium. A definite macroscopic violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamic (I don't believe in the tyranny of the 2nd law). A device that derives energy from the kinetic energy of air molecules with no need for a temperature difference is a free energy machine in my book. I think this thing may be like the legendary vortex invention of Victor Schauberger which was (according to legend) actively suppressed by the U.S. Government. The difference being that this device uses air instead of water like Schauberger. Could it simply be that the kinetic energy of air molecules is being organized by the vortex that is so clearly described as being integral to the function of this device ? Entropy systems is located in Youngstown, Ohio. Is there somebody near this company that could go see if this thing is really the self sustaining free energy device they claim ? Please make a video and have someone put it on real-video or quicktime server. Maybe the inventor would be interested in an interview on the Art Bell show !! If this is the first practical outcome of ambient energy (free energy) research, we are in for some real exciting times. The world political and money powers can no longer keep this cat in the bag. It is a major threat to the current worldwide system of feudalism. I would be on the alert for the usual tactic of creating a problem and then offering its solution. A little war or economic upheaval anyone ? I am not paranoid, just observant. Tim -------------------------------------------------------------- The performance characteristics of Model # ESI22 are as follows: * Working medium is Air. (Model #ESI22 is a beta version.) * ESI22 converts heat at any temperature in the working medium to power and in the process lowers its temperature. * As temperature of the working medium reduces below the surrounding temperature, heat from the surrounding starts to flow into the working medium due to the temperature gradient. ESI22 operates on the Amin Cycle. Efficiency of a heat engine operating on the Amin Cycle is greater than that of Carnot's Cycle. COP of a refrigerator operating on the Amin Cycle is greater than Carnot's. The heat conversion efficiency in the Carnot's Cycle depends on the magnitude of the temperature gradient while the heat conversion efficiency in the Amin Cycle depends on the magnitude of the acceleration gradient. * ESI22 creates it's own temperature gradient. In other words, it acts as a room temperature Superconductor of Heat. * ESI22 converts up to 76 Watts of heat to power at peak performance. Temperature of the working medium drops upto 3.8 deg F. No heat is rejected out of the working medium. There is no heat sink for the working medium. * For measured temperature decrease of 3.8 deg F. Carnot's Cycle efficiency is 0.7% and Amin Cycle efficiency is 100% ESI22 has the following dimensions: Length: 24.5" (622.3mm) Width: 16.5" (419.1mm) Height: 14" (355.6mm) On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:59:07 -0400 (EDT) John Schnurer writes: > > > Dear Vo., > > NOTE: My posts do not go to frenergy. > > I went to this page. > > This is a nice heat motor.... a prime mover that runs on low > levels, or "low grade" heat. The first commercial product is not > out yet. > You can buy industrial model is USD $ 75,000 .oo ... yes, 75K > dollars. > > This is NOT free energy. It IS a good heat engine. > > I really hope they get it up, if it was reasonable, I would > buy > it, I would drive mine with the sun and use some of the energy to > break > water to H and O for use at night. > > They have my respect. > > > > > On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Tim Vaughn wrote: > > > This looks serious: > > > > http://www.entropysystems.com/ > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 20:40:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA24101; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:37:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:37:03 -0700 To: news EntropySystems.com Cc: vortex-L eskimo.com, freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:35:18 -0700 Subject: Amin Cycle Self Sustaining ? Message-ID: <19990910.193638.-491615.3.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,8-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"EpeSl2.0.Vu5.TvSst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30190 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear sirs, Do I understand correctly that this device will produce power and self sustain using only ambient heat with temperature difference ? I have long had the conviction that it is possible to order the molecular kinetic energy of ambient heat. I have been searching for a way to to this for the last 15 years. It would appear that you have found it ! Congradulations. Will there be a public demonstration ? I would like to see it myself. Thank you, Tim Vaughan Tim ( tv juno.com ) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:21:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04256; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:20:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:20:08 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:33:06 -0600 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: TELEVISION SPECIAL Resent-Message-ID: <"LYu7u1.0.Q21.tXTst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30191 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The History Channel will be broadcasting a Special entitled, "The World's Greatest Conspiracies" (formerly on the A&E Network) which features Joseph Newman's struggle to bring forth his revolutionary technology. The Special aired Friday night and will supposedly air again tomorrow and also over the next several days. For those who have not seen this excellent Special, I would suggest that you consult your local listings guide to ascertain when it will be featured in your area/time zone. Also, you may wish to contact your friends and relatives and suggest that they also watch the show. Evan Soule' ___________________________ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:29:36 -0700 From: Greg East Subject: voltage yes...current no. CONFIRMED I want to share some real cool finding with the List. I have been conducting investigations involving principles taught by Joseph Newman, as well as by Tesla and some others. Basically, I wanted to see if I could make a motor run off of the energy captured from radio broadcasts. Without elaborating on the details (mostly because I'm still sorting it out) I have taken the neo magnet rotor from my Newman motor and constructed a slightly different type of Neman motor....quite simple in its construction and similar to what Stefan posted to the list a while back. I have two coils positioned radially and diametrically opposed. The rotor ends sweep past the interior ends of the coils. This motor runs simply by properly timing and commutating the polarities of the coils as you would expect. The coils may be powered either in parallel or in series... again, as you would expect. I found a way to rectifiy radio waves in such a way that you end up with plus AND minus potentials around ground which makes commutation simple. Again, I'm not going to elaborate on the (simple)circuitry. What is on-topic here is that a solar cell and radio EM load somewhat similarly. It is easy to overload the power. In the beginning, I was concerned with only lighting a Red LED using RF energy...I wasn't even thinking about a motor. It illuminated easily from the RF energy! That being the case, I decided I was going to make a motor run off of RF too. When I hooked everything up, I made and broke the contacts manually and I could see the rotor torque ever so slightly. So I fiddled some more and got it to rotate about 15 degrees or so before it was overcome by being slightly out of balance. I worked on that for a while and got it as good as possible. Still I could not get the rotor to turn a full 360 degs. Then I became aware that I was fighting a torque in reaction to the Earth's magnetic field ... like a compass. If you've used neo-magnets, you know this can be a considerable torque considering all things. With the miniscule powers and fields I'm working with here, this torque is a big factor. So I placed another neo-magnet at some distance from the motor and effectively compensated for the torque. Then I built the commutator. Can you belive it finally worked ... rotating about once every five seconds on only a few microwatts beings received by a couple of antennas. Oh, I used my car as one of the antennas and a piece of a gate for the other. Now here's where I confirm what Joseph Newman is claiming about voltage vs. current. Since my power levels are so low, what a perfect oportunity to test Joe's claims. I instinctively hooked the coils up in series from the start. So I switched the wires around so the coils were in parallel. As you know, the series connection will draw less current and maintain a higher voltage, and the parallel connection will draw more current and pull the voltage down twice as much ... in my case (the coils are pretty much the same). Well, it wouldn't even overcome bearing friction, and I have some very high quality precision bearings in this thing. So I'm convinced that Joseph Newman is correct in some, if not all, of his claims. Thought I'd share this with you all, Greg East ____________________________________ Thank you, Greg East. Greg East deserves thanks for pursuing the TRUTH! Thanks also to Greg for showing others how to THINK. Now I ask all other honest technical individuals to join in with Greg East's honesty and so verify my Life's Work for Humanity by any other constructive method following my teachings for humanity. Together we will bring forth the Advancement of the Human Race into the immediate upcoming 21st century. Join me in bringing forth its MASS PRODUCTION FOR ALL HUMANITY. Thanks and love to Humanity, [Signed] Joseph W. Newman (480) 657-3722 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 www.josephnewman.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:46:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA10518; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:41:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:41:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990910233941.00975eb0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:39:41 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990910111944.00868200 world.std.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990910100109.00f3bd78 mail.eden.com> <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MrjnV1.0.Ba2.srTst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30192 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:19 AM 9/10/99 -0400, Mitchell Swartz wrote: >where does your rexamination of >YOUR own past investigations rate on your "list"? Depends on essentially the same factors that rate new projects. If promising new data surfaces, such as Mizuno's recent confirmation of his excess heat results using water-flow calorimetry, we'll reopen an old investigation immediately. For example, we're presently engaged in a repeat search for excess heat from the simple process of hydrogen gas permeating through a heated Pd membrane..this time with 100x higher sensitivity than before. Regarding the beads: It's a complex situation with many factors involved....but the deck is clearly stacked against them. CETI's going nowhere with beads (apparently), Cravens has quit working with beads, Miley's transmutation results with beads look incorrect to us, etc. Your analysis of our bead results showed an apparent gain at low input power levels...but the magnitude was within our measurement uncertainty of +/- 0.05 watts, and was likely just an error, not a real signal. Hopefully you can understand why we continue to feel that further investigation of beads is unwarranted...at this time. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:47:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11001; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:42:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:42:54 -0700 Message-ID: <19990911044511.6910.rocketmail web130.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:45:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Glow discharge info. To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"3xphB2.0.ph2.DtTst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30193 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, Please send me the graphs. > I just e-mailed some black and white graphs and comments about Mizuno's > glow discharge data to Scott Little and various other people who are > interested in that subject. The message is ~250 KB, which is way too big > for this forum. I think it is too detailed for this forum. If anyone else > is interested, contact me and I'll shoot you a copy directly. Please send to --->> schaffer fusion.gat.com My Yahoo account is only useful for small and simple mail. PS. I've had a cable modem (through Road Runner, Time-Warner Cable) for about a year. Technical support has been pretty good. When it's fast, it's reallly fast. It can beat the network at work. But it does slow down a lot sometimes. And sometimes the cable signal goes completely kaput. What I like about it is: 1) two or more computers can be accessing internet at the same time; 2) doesn't tie up a telephone line. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:47:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13674; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:09 -0700 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:32:23 -0700 Subject: Amin cycle device in Wired Message-ID: <19990910.204623.-491615.4.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"NkNzq.0.VL3.DxTst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30195 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Checkout the article in Wired magazine http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21641.htmlTim ( tv juno.com ) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 21:47:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13634; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:07 -0700 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Cc: freenrgL eskimo.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:35:11 -0700 Subject: Amin cycle device in USA Today Message-ID: <19990910.204623.-491615.5.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"c_ppU.0.tK3.BxTst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30194 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Checkout the article in USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/review/cr000.htm Tim ( tv juno.com ) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 10 22:16:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24962; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:13:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:13:18 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <027301befbcc$e1aa7f20$ad441d26 fjsparber> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:09:34 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater? Resent-Message-ID: <"pjbkT1.0.y56.kJUst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30196 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I took a coffee cup with inside dimensions 4.445 cm dia x 7.62 cm >deep, filled with water out of the tap (27 C?) and stuck in one of >those 200 watt immersion heaters that clip on to the side of the cup >and timed how long it took to bring it to a boil (94.4 C at this altitude). > >It took 127 seconds. 127*200 = 25,400 joules. > >For a 67 deg rise, 280.5 joules/ gram times 118.25 grams = 33,169 Joules >(if I calculated right). > >33,169/25,400 = 1.30? :-) > >Regards, Frederick ***{My guess is that when vigorous bubbling began near the heating element, the rest of the water in the cup was nowhere near boiling. Thus your calculated heat out is much too large. --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 00:34:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA21667; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:31:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:31:24 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:30:49 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0@inforamp.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA21647 Resent-Message-ID: <"iFlTi1.0.SI5.BLWst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30197 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:21:35 -0700, Quinney wrote: [snip] >My apologies. These two NIAC URLs are just fractions of an inch apart on my >screen. > >Try > >Colin Consider also that the containment forms the lions share of the mass. In the hard vacuum of space however, no containment is needed at all. This could improve the numbers out of site. It would also mean that there would need to be no real limit to the actual size of the field, resulting in fantastic energy storage capabilities. Combine this with the solar wind magnetic sail concept, and the sky's not the limit ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 01:04:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA28247; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:01:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:01:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:01:04 -1000 Subject: Re: Amin cycle device in Wired From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909110401885.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Dy2RS3.0.Dv6.3nWst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30198 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's the correct URL: http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21641.html "[...] htmlTim" ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI > > > Checkout the article in Wired magazine > http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21641.htmlTim > > ( tv juno.com ) > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 05:59:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA04347; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:58:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:58:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990911075725.00977410 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:57:25 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Amin cycle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tmWAm2.0.r31.G8bst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30199 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Amin cycle superimposes centrifugal compression and expansion onto piston-induced compression and expansion. Since neither of these processes alone can get around the 2nd Law, I have strong doubts that a combination of them will do the trick. However, I am always willing to examine experimental results which appear to contradict expectations. This link: http://www.entropysystems.com/Testing.htm contains the actual test data behind the claim that the engine converts 76 watts of heat directly into power. It is important to note that his engine does not run itself and produce 76 watts of usable power. Instead, he has to drive the engine continuously with an electric motor and he infers that it is producing 76 watts of mechanical power by observing the difference in input power when he switches the engine's piston-vane timing between "Amin cycle timing" and unAMin. With the motor timing set to unAmin, it consumes 394 watts of drive power and the working fluid (air) warms to 100F or more. When he switches to Amin timing, the input power drops to 318 watts and the air cools off. If we could stop here, it would seem like a very ordinary device in which the timing switch was just changing the load on the drive motor. However, he further claims that with Amin timing, the working fluid is cooled to 3.8F below ambient, even though the device is still consuming 318 watts from the drive motor. He further claims that no point on the exterior of the control volume is hotter than ambient, apparently eliminating heat-pump explanations for the cooler working fluid. At this point we need much more detailed information about his testing procedures and instrumentation to proceed. It is worrisome that he implies that he has only one temperature probe and moves it around from point to point. ...e.g. "Temperature of working medium is measured by placement of thermocouple at various measurement points inside the working medium. Temperature of the area encompassing the control volume is measured by placement of thermocouple at various measurement points on the area of the control volume." Simultaneously monitored and recorded temperatures at all important locations would be much more convincing. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 06:19:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09373; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:18:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:18:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990911081721.0097b740 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:17:21 -0500 To: , "Ed Wall" From: Scott Little Subject: heater control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"B9tF32.0.NI2.vQbst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30200 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Ed, Last week I decided to cobble together an analog power control for a heater in my present experiment and I am pleased to report that it works substantially better than the 15-second period PWM I had been using. I used a big NPN power transistor with emitter grounded and placed the heater between the collector and the +DC supply (~90 volts). That xstr didn't have enough gain to be driven directly from my analog output so I put another xstr in front of it...in a Darlington arrangement. It works just great (with fans blowing on it!). I get a nearly linear relationship between analog output voltage and heater voltage. I'm regulating a small oven at 400C with this heater and, before the change, I could see the oven temp wandering around about +/- 0.1C in a jerky erratic fashion that no amount of diddling with P and D coeffs would eliminate. Now, it has settled to perhaps 5 times better than that...+/- 0.02C regulation on a 400C setpoint. Pretty good! An unexpected benefit: Now when I stop the program to change something or start a new run, the analog output simply stays at the last setting and the oven temp hardly wanders. Previously, the heater was either ON or OFF when I stopped the program and I always had to wait a good while for equilibrium again. You did good by making yours analog. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 07:01:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18438; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:59:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:59:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:59:23 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: John Schnurer Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4Kxui3.0.0W4.r0cst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30201 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > > Dear Jim, > > Can you explaing a little better? I am lost among the terms, > thanks > Einstein's notion that light travels as a series of little packets of energy called "light quanta" or "photons" is in complete contradiction with the wave theory of light propagation. It is alleged in many elemetary to advanced physics textbooks that these two contradictory theories are required to explain the behaviour of light as both waves and particles. For example Beiser, who has written a very good first year college physics book called "Physics", which I refer to frequently for help with lots of different physics questions puts it this way: Pg. 723 "The wave theory of light is necessary to explain diffraction and interference phenomena which the quantum theory cannot explain, and the quantum theory of light is necessary to explain the photoelectric effect, which the wave theory cannot explain." The specific detail of the problem about the photoelectric effect, which is alleged to be unexplainable by the wave theory, is this: The wave theory can give no reason why there should be a certain threshold frequency below which no photoelectrons are observed, no matter how strong the light beam. So, in response to that idea I say that the physical properties of any material substance, especially metals that exhibit the ability to produce "photoelectrons" when struck by the feeblest of light beams, can be be reduced to basic electrical qualities of resistance, capacitance, dielectric permeability, permitivity, magnetic permeability and semiconductor action, all explainable by the wave theory. I don't think there is a need for a particle theory, and in that respect I disagree with Einstein, and Beiser and many, many other physics "gurus". In support of the above thesis, I said: " .......[T]he ejection of photelectrons seems to be the result of the build up of a dc potential by the metal surface by storing the energy of the incoming radiation, the way I see it. " The above mechanism has an analog in a normal electronic circuit, the bridge rectifier feeding a capacitor which transforms the incoming AC energy out of the wall socket into a dc potential in a capacitor. If the capacitor were shunted to ground across a apark gap, [or neon lamp, xenon flashtube etc] then at some point as the capacitor becomes charged an arc [discharge] will occurr. The energy in this arc will always the same quantifiable value in joules. However if the frequency of the wall socket ac is reduced, a point will be reached where the capacitor does not become charged sufficiently to eject electrons accross the gap because whatever energy is there is dissipated by load resistance or dc leakage of the capacitor. Increasing the frequency of the wall socket ac would result in the production of more arcs per second, yet, the energy value in joules of each individual arc would reamain the same (more "photon" counts, but the same energy value per photon)." Thanks for asking, I hope this helps From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 07:07:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21293; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:06:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:06:08 -0700 From: UNIR2B1 aol.com Message-ID: <1b6b7520.250bb97b aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:56:11 EDT Subject: 3 VIRUSES: "Win A Holiday", "California", "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)" To: seer7 netusa1.net CC: sepequal hotmail.com (George A. Abbott), Serwitz@aol.com, sharon nyct.net (Sharon), shekhina_shaman bigfoot.com (Shekhina Canyon), SHEREE_SCHMIDT hp-loveland-om2.om.hp.com (Sheree Schmidt), spot2 pdq.net (spot), survival-ark@lyghtforce.com, survival ballistic.com (Tom), TB4299@aol.com, tenx7 bellatlantic.net (Henri Calitri), transnet mail.teleport.com (John Michaels), transnet teleport.com (Micheal), tri-r-spheres@webtv.net, trknute earthlink.net, UFOLAWYER1@aol.com, unexplained listservice.net (unexplained), visited onelist.com (visited), vortex-l@eskimo.com, werosser hotmail.com, wiseman@eagle-research.com, y2k-survival infostream.net, Y2KNOW@listbot.com (Y2K), zianet interserv.com (David Openheimer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Resent-Message-ID: <"8PRim1.0.ZC5.F7cst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30202 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: DO NOT OPEN; IMMEDIATELY DELETE: "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)" "Win A Holiday" email with a file called "California" ============================ This warning comes from Neil Ferrick, Compaq Computer Corp. Subject: Please read 3 virus warnings!!!!! If you receive the email with a file called 'California', do not open the delete it right away. The file contains WOBBLER virus. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM. AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa", and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat function from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all documents on the hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible computers. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many know about it. Chris Horstman ================================= Subject: Fw: DO NOT DELETE!!! READ !!!!!!!!!!! 1. This is VERY SERIOUS!! Please forward to everyone you know...they will be grateful. There is a virus out now being sent to people via email..it is called the A.I.D.S. VIRUS. It will destroy your memory, sound card and speakers, your drive and it will infect your mouse or pointing devices as well as your keyboards making it so that you can't type and it will not register on the screen. It self terminates only after it eats 5MB of hard drive space & will delete all programs. It will come via E- mail called "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)". DELETE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!immediately!! It will basically render your computer useless. PASS IT ON QUICKLY & TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE!! 2.Very Urgent Must Read Please - If you receive an e-mail titled "Win A Holiday" DO NOT open it . It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information was announced yesterday morning from Microsoft. Thank You, Neil Ferrick Compaq Computer Corporation From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 07:10:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22867; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:09:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:09:29 -0700 Message-ID: <001801befc5f$a7e2bda0$a8637dc7 computer> From: "Ed Wall" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990911081721.0097b740 mail.eden.com> Subject: Re: heater control Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:12:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"teUb_1.0.Db5.PAcst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30203 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > An unexpected benefit: Now when I stop the program to change something or > start a new run, the analog output simply stays at the last setting and the > oven temp hardly wanders. Previously, the heater was either ON or OFF when > I stopped the program and I always had to wait a good while for equilibrium > again. I've noticed that. I wrote the code so that pressing 's' will stop it by first setting the voltage across the Peltiers to zero. > > You did good by making yours analog. > I've been pretty happy with it, but I still have some kind of noise, apparently in my amplifier, which I haven't bothered to track down. I did a calculation on average heat production from the SRI experiment, given volume, temperature, pressure, ppm and duration, with D+D -> 23.8 MeV in heat and came up with an expected average heat output of ~0.5W, which is lower than I expected for the sorts of reported over temperature readings, so I seriously doubt that we could expect to see a clear excess heat, except perhaps for the fact that the heat seems to climb steadily, so it may eventually exceed 1W, which is still too close to noise level. Ed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 07:51:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03129; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:50:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:50:27 -0700 Message-ID: <002701befc64$fbff6320$0101a8c0 john> From: "John Logajan" To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990909155112.00799e40 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990910132745.007a3100@pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: John Logajan's webantics Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:50:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ihOMI1.0.lm.pmcst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30204 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed wrote: > Where do they say things like that? [up to 50 times faster] > In their advertising or brochures? In their contract? > They better watch what they say, or they better lay > on the small print thickly. It might be construed as > consumer fraud. Heh. "Up to" covers it. All packets arrive at the downstream burst rate (probably 10Mbps or more, 200x faster than even the so-call 56k modems). There just happens to be variable length gaps between packets. ;-) -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan yahoo.com -- 651-633-8918 - - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 08:16:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09027; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:15:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:15:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990911105915.007a6100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:59:15 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990910132122.007a0ae0 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9-z001.0.zC2.t7dst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30205 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Jones, who doesn't speak language, writes: Since you claim Mizuno was over unity, you imply that Scott didn't do a proper replication. Enough said. I imply? You read this implication into the message. I cannot help it if you ignore what I write and you respond to imaginary "implications." In an academic debate it would be more productive for you to respond to what people actually say, rather than flailing away at imaginary new-age deconstructive "implications." I have *categorically* and *repeatedly* stated that I do not know whether Mizuno and Ohmori are making a mistake in calorimetry, or whether Little is doing the electrochemistry wrong. I would never say an effect is real until 10 or 20 people have replicated at high sigma. That has not happened with the glow discharge excess heat yet, so I reserve judgement. Given the scurrilous charges that you have routinely hurled at [Scott Little] in the past, I am sure he feels as if he is walking on eggs whenever he finds himself interacting with you, and is relieved when you are not engaged in overt name calling. That's preposterous. Scott Little is not afraid of me! He does not walk on eggs for anyone. What next? Will you accuse me of frightening John Bockris or General Schwartzkopf? Ask Scott if he has ever felt a tiny bit intimidated by me. The idea's ridiculous. [Newman] would be out of his mind if he cooperated with you, that's for sure. More scientists have cooperated with me and provided me with detailed data than with anyone else in this field except Eugene Mallove and Hal Fox. When a researcher will not cooperate with me, you can take that as good evidence he is a flake, or he is trying to hide a mistake. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 08:19:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09997; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:18:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:18:32 -0700 Message-ID: <035401befc71$024171e0$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:15:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"V4Yo81.0.7S2.8Bdst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30206 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The 73.5 ohm heating element operated at 117.5 volts at the wall-socket calculates out to 188 watts spread over 51 cm^2 of heater surface or about 3.7 watts/cm^2, a very low wattage density that does not create any bubbles or sound until the 250 ml of water in the cup gets to the 94,4 deg C boiling point. Careful timing and observiing a thermometer that arrests at about 94 C 285 seconds after power is applied, indicates 188*285 = 53,580 joules input, and 77,460 joules in the 250 ml of water, or output is about 1.45 times input, ignoring the heat absorbed in the cup and heater unit. Speculation: At around 350 deg K (2898/350 ~= 8.28 Micron, 0.15 ev IR Photons) when a sound can be heard, there are Light Lepton-Neutrino-Antineutrino Pairs formed at theheater surface. These in turn form a Hydrino and Electrino Gas that initiates the Microbubbles that create the sound. Having said this, I will be in hiding for the next few days. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 08:27:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA12439; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:26:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:26:32 -0700 To: vortex-L eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L eskimo.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:24:28 -0700 Subject: Amin cycle not self sustaining :-( Message-ID: <19990911.072435.-480813.1.tv juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,14-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Tim Vaughn Resent-Message-ID: <"vpBYf.0.923.eIdst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30207 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little is right. This quote from the Entropy web page say it all.... " Our objective is to increase the conversion of heat to work and simultaneously, reduce the friction power. The crossover, point where the friction power is equal to or less than the heat converted to power is the point where net heat conversion to power can be attained. When heat converted to power exceeds the friction power the difference could be used for producing electricity or for any other applications which require a prime mover. We have made steady progress in increasing the heat to work conversion from 4 watts to 76 watts and reducing the friction from 870 watts to 394 watts. We urge the scientific community to thoroughly and scientifically review and analyze every aspect of the Amin Cycle, its analysis, observations and applications before making any judgements. " Sorry. I got too excited, too soon. Tim ( tv juno.com ) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 08:35:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14675; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:32:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:32:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990911113234.007aa290 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:32:34 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater In-Reply-To: <035401befc71$024171e0$ad441d26 fjsparber> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"kFgyC1.0.9b3.QOdst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30208 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Um. You did *stir* didn't you? After it reached boiling you should stir. What do you mean the thermometer "arrests"? How high does that themometer go, how old is it, and have you calibrated it against another one lately? (I'll grant, a 40% error with a mercury thermometer is unthinkable.) - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 09:34:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA32248; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:32:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:32:08 -0700 Message-ID: <039f01befc7b$44df1480$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990911113234.007aa290 pop.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:29:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZAs2y.0.nt7.8Gest" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30209 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Jed Rothwell To: Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 8:32 AM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Jed wrote: > Um. You did *stir* didn't you? After it reached boiling you should stir. I did some stirring,but at these low heat flux the convection did about as much good. > > What do you mean the thermometer "arrests"? A "Thermal Arrest" is where the temperature no longer increases, ie., as you add heat to ice it thermal arrests at 0 C until it melts, at the boiling point of water there is a thermal arrest until it boils away. > >How high does that themometer > go, how old is it, and have you calibrated it against another one lately? I bought a "Deep Fry" thermometer at Wal-Mart with a range of 40 - 175 C but it's kinda iffey. > (I'll grant, a 40% error with a mercury thermometer is unthinkable.) As simple as this experiment is, anyone with a data logger, a $3.00 immersion heater, and a Dewar could do'er in a few minutes. I didn't intend to get this far into it, but curiosity got the best of me. :-) Regards, Frederick > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 09:44:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA03303; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:42:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:42:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <035401befc71$024171e0$ad441d26 fjsparber> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:39:43 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"14WUl1.0.Xp.yPest" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30210 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The 73.5 ohm heating element operated at 117.5 volts at the >wall-socket calculates out to 188 watts spread over 51 cm^2 >of heater surface or about 3.7 watts/cm^2, a very low wattage >density that does not create any bubbles or sound until the 250 ml >of water in the cup gets to the 94,4 deg C boiling point. > >Careful timing and observiing a thermometer that arrests at >about 94 C 285 seconds after power is applied, indicates >188*285 = 53,580 joules input, and 77,460 joules in >the 250 ml of water, or output is about 1.45 times input, >ignoring the heat absorbed in the cup and heater unit. > >Speculation: > >At around 350 deg K (2898/350 ~= 8.28 Micron, 0.15 ev IR Photons) >when a sound can be heard, there are >Light Lepton-Neutrino-Antineutrino Pairs formed at theheater surface. >These in turn form a Hydrino and Electrino Gas that initiates the >Microbubbles that create the sound. > >Having said this, I will be in hiding for the next few days. :-) > >Regards, Frederick ***{All right, Fred, I would say that you have everybody hooked. Now are you going to tell us the brand name and model of the coffee cup heater, and the store where you bought it, so we can check this out for ourselves, or is that information going to remain your secret? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 09:55:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA07694; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:55:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:55:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:59:38 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Sounds in heater ...Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RPLwb.0.8u1.obest" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30211 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear folks, Sometimes the first "fizzing" or bubbling sounds you hear when heating water ase dissolved gasses coming out of solution. Do your run, then repeat with water you have taken to a boil and then let get cool... the boiled water will have MUCH less dissolved gasses. J On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Mitchell Jones wrote: > >The 73.5 ohm heating element operated at 117.5 volts at the > >wall-socket calculates out to 188 watts spread over 51 cm^2 > >of heater surface or about 3.7 watts/cm^2, a very low wattage > >density that does not create any bubbles or sound until the 250 ml > >of water in the cup gets to the 94,4 deg C boiling point. > > > >Careful timing and observiing a thermometer that arrests at > >about 94 C 285 seconds after power is applied, indicates > >188*285 = 53,580 joules input, and 77,460 joules in > >the 250 ml of water, or output is about 1.45 times input, > >ignoring the heat absorbed in the cup and heater unit. > > > >Speculation: > > > >At around 350 deg K (2898/350 ~= 8.28 Micron, 0.15 ev IR Photons) > >when a sound can be heard, there are > >Light Lepton-Neutrino-Antineutrino Pairs formed at theheater surface. > >These in turn form a Hydrino and Electrino Gas that initiates the > >Microbubbles that create the sound. > > > >Having said this, I will be in hiding for the next few days. :-) > > > >Regards, Frederick > > ***{All right, Fred, I would say that you have everybody hooked. Now are > you going to tell us the brand name and model of the coffee cup heater, and > the store where you bought it, so we can check this out for ourselves, or > is that information going to remain your secret? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 10:32:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA16953; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:31:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:31:05 -0700 Message-ID: <03b801befc83$7fab4a40$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:28:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"XUCy71.0.m84.O7fst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30212 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 9:39 AM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Mitch Jones wrote: > >The 73.5 ohm heating element operated at 117.5 volts at the > >wall-socket calculates out to 188 watts spread over 51 cm^2 > >of heater surface or about 3.7 watts/cm^2, a very low wattage > >density that does not create any bubbles or sound until the 250 ml > >of water in the cup gets to the 94,4 deg C boiling point. > > > >Careful timing and observiing a thermometer that arrests at > >about 94 C 285 seconds after power is applied, indicates > >188*285 = 53,580 joules input, and 77,460 joules in > >the 250 ml of water, or output is about 1.45 times input, > >ignoring the heat absorbed in the cup and heater unit. > > > >Speculation: > > > >At around 350 deg K (2898/350 ~= 8.28 Micron, 0.15 ev IR Photons) > >when a sound can be heard, there are > >Light Lepton-Neutrino-Antineutrino Pairs formed at theheater surface. > >These in turn form a Hydrino and Electrino Gas that initiates the > >Microbubbles that create the sound. > > > >Having said this, I will be in hiding for the next few days. :-) > > > >Regards, Frederick > > ***{All right, Fred, I would say that you have everybody hooked. Now are > you going to tell us the brand name and model of the coffee cup heater, and > the store where you bought it, so we can check this out for ourselves, or > is that information going to remain your secret? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** The Package with the plastic Bubble just says Instant Immersion Heater, UL Listed 24 J2 $3.00 Made in Taiwan. My wife, who makes Inspector Gadget look primitive picked it up For Half price (of course). Bright Chrome plate on the element (about 11" long coiled x .25 "dia. 200w 120 vac. Regards, Frederick > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 11:16:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA29147; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:13:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:13:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990911141732.00f2d820 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:17:32 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: RE: EST. The power storage breakthrough. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8uimg3.0.L77.Jlfst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30213 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:30 PM 09/11/99 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >>Try >> >Consider also that the containment forms the lions share of the mass. In >the hard vacuum of space however, no containment is needed at all. This >could improve the numbers out of sight. It would also mean that there >would need to be no real limit to the actual size of the field, >resulting in fantastic energy storage capabilities. >Combine this with the solar wind magnetic sail concept, and the sky's >not the limit ;). > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Good point. Perhaps also, some charged solar particles will get trapped and enhance the field. (And that would be a good thing :) I think these EST's can be made within a standard atmosphere and standard pressure. From the hobbyist's point of view using a shotgun approach, they could be created from a microwave burst onto a small [40] gauge poloidal coil. As the wire explodes into plasma it would simultaneously create the toroidal containment [magnetic] field. Anyway-- That's my theory and I'm sticking to it-- See a picture of a non-toroidal plasma bursting from a NON-resonant coil inside a microwave oven, Microwave bursts at timed intervals [or with reduced field intensity] will hopefully give the EST plasmoid a long enough duration for study. Vacuum and/or resonance microwave cavity experiments can be attempted well after any experiments with exploding coils. Do the old microwave ovens operate around 2 GHz. ? And would not 1/4 wavelength be ~ 2.5 cm.? FYI: I am filing all further references to Electron Spiral Toroids under "ball lightning and plasmoids". Bill Beaty's references re Ball Lightning, http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/tesla/ballgtn.html Edward Lewis' Information re-- Plasmoids, Cold Fusion, and Charge Clusters, Etc. Regards, Colin Quinney From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 13:08:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10838; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:07:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:07:16 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <29669fd2.250c0d50 aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:53:52 EDT Subject: Re: Brouhaha averted at ACS To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"Z5W27.0.Cf2.qPhst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30214 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira, If a presentation by Mills was listed on the website program for the ACS regional western meeting in October, then I missed it. Sounds like another unsubstantiated rumor to me. But please let me know if you hear anything more definite about this. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 13:18:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA15569; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:15:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:15:37 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <6dc1863.250c0d4d aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:53:49 EDT Subject: Re: Huggins Comments on Glow Discharge To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"dLK-U2.0.Ap3.fXhst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30215 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robert Huggins commented that degradation of the cathode was a problem in glow discharge experiments. Did he recommend trying any other material besides tungsten for the cathode? Have Ohmori or Mizuno tried anything else for the cathode? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 13:24:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22591; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:23:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:23:14 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:01:00 -1000 Subject: Re: 3 VIRUSES: "Win A Holiday", "California", "(OPEN: VERY COOL!:)" From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990911160141.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"MEOSo3.0.vW5.oehst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30216 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Now stop just a minute and ponder this phrase: > Please forward to everyone you know... Ok, do you see the real 'virus' yet? No? How about: > PASS IT ON QUICKLY & TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE!! Ok, how about now - see it yet? Yeah. Oops! - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 13:41:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA30962; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:40:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:40:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199909112040.QAA16902 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: 3 VIRUSES: "Win A Holiday", "California", "(OPEN: VERYCOOL!:)" Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:35:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CNzM9.0.iZ7.Lvhst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30217 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually, the program "California" is real...but it doesn't destroy anything. The person who originated the email must have known something about it, because he called it the "wobbler virus"...I wouldn't call it a virus though, as you can turn it off. All it does is make screens in Windows shake while it is active. --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 14:00:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06325; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:59:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:59:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990911155752.0090e4e0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:57:52 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: EST. The power storage breakthrough. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990911141732.00f2d820 inforamp.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UaVz73.0.dY1.kAist" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30218 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:17 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Quinney wrote: >I think these EST's can be made within a standard atmosphere and standard >pressure. From the hobbyist's point of view using a shotgun approach, they >could be created from a microwave burst onto a small [40] gauge poloidal >coil. As the wire explodes into plasma it would simultaneously create the >toroidal containment [magnetic] field. Seems to me there's a tricky problem in getting one formed. Seward says to start with a circular mag field (like around a straight conductor) and then squirt some electrons into the field such that they start spiraling around the circular mag flux lines. Let's say the straight conductor is sticking out of the table top in front of us and the current is traveling up the wire. That makes the lines of B circle counterclockwise around the wire (as we look down on it). Now take your electron squirt gun and place it on the table 10 cm to the right of the vertical wire and squirt some electrons straight up, parallel to the wire. The VxB force on the electrons (remember, they're negative) will cause them to travel clockwise in a sorta-circular path that will take them out to, say, 12 cm from the wire before they loop back again to their 10cm starting point. Tilt the gun away from you to make a slight helix angle and, Voila, the stream of electrons starts to fill in zillions of parallel spiral paths that form a large, skinny toroid around the current-carrying vertical wire. Now here comes the trick. As long as the vertical wire is carrying current, it is creating a counterclockwise B field that forces the electrons to move in the spiral toroidal paths. But Seward says the EST will be stable by itself...with small external stabilizing influences. What happens when we turn off the current in the wire? Will the circular B field remain intact, maintained by the circulating electrons? No. The B field generated by the circulating electrons is in the opposite direction to the one that got them circulating in the first place. I can begin to see how an oppositely directed B field might result in stable toroidal spiral paths, but I'm wondering how the EST can possibly survive the switchover. Since the field has to reverse direction, it has to go through zero. Sounds like guaranteed disintegration to me...but I could easily be wrong. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 14:09:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA11477; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:08:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:08:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37DAC726.85DF23D ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:18:30 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Brouhaha averted at ACS References: <29669fd2.250c0d50 aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mErmO.0.Dp2.fJist" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30219 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK Tstolper aol.com wrote: > Akira, > > If a presentation by Mills was listed on the website program for the ACS > regional western meeting in October, then I missed it. Sounds like another > unsubstantiated rumor to me. But please let me know if you hear anything > more definite about this. > > Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 15:15:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA09746; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:14:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:14:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <03b801befc83$7fab4a40$ad441d26 fjsparber> References: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:11:06 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"b3Pid3.0.CO2.hGjst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30220 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mitchell Jones >To: >Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 9:39 AM >Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater > >Mitch Jones wrote: > >> >The 73.5 ohm heating element operated at 117.5 volts at the >> >wall-socket calculates out to 188 watts spread over 51 cm^2 >> >of heater surface or about 3.7 watts/cm^2, a very low wattage >> >density that does not create any bubbles or sound until the 250 ml >> >of water in the cup gets to the 94,4 deg C boiling point. >> > >> >Careful timing and observiing a thermometer that arrests at >> >about 94 C 285 seconds after power is applied, indicates >> >188*285 = 53,580 joules input, and 77,460 joules in >> >the 250 ml of water, or output is about 1.45 times input, >> >ignoring the heat absorbed in the cup and heater unit. >> > >> >Speculation: >> > >> >At around 350 deg K (2898/350 ~= 8.28 Micron, 0.15 ev IR Photons) >> >when a sound can be heard, there are >> >Light Lepton-Neutrino-Antineutrino Pairs formed at theheater surface. >> >These in turn form a Hydrino and Electrino Gas that initiates the >> >Microbubbles that create the sound. >> > >> >Having said this, I will be in hiding for the next few days. :-) >> > >> >Regards, Frederick >> >> ***{All right, Fred, I would say that you have everybody hooked. Now are >> you going to tell us the brand name and model of the coffee cup heater, >and >> the store where you bought it, so we can check this out for ourselves, or >> is that information going to remain your secret? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > >The Package with the plastic Bubble just says Instant Immersion Heater, >UL Listed 24 J2 $3.00 Made in Taiwan. My wife, who makes Inspector Gadget >look primitive picked it up For Half price (of course). > >Bright Chrome plate on the element (about 11" long coiled x .25 "dia. 200w > 120 vac. > >Regards, Frederick ***{My wife and I dug through a couple of stores, and finally found a "Good Cook Immersion Heater," put out by Bradshaw International, item no. 16990. This is a 200 watt coffee cup heater made in China. I filled a 250 ml beaker to the 200 ml line with tap water, stuck in a lab quality mercury thermometer. After it stabilized, it read 28 deg. C. I then plugged in the heater and started a stopwatch. Result: the thermometer reading rose to 55 deg. C over an interval of about 4 minutes, and stabilized there, despite the fact that the water appeared to be boiling vigorously at that point. Surprised, I carefully lifted it out of the beaker. As I did so, I noticed that the reading spiked up very rapidly, then began falling when the bulb emerged from the water. Next I lowered the bulb back until it was just below the surface. Result: it stabilized at about 92 deg. C, as the water continued to boil vigorously. Then I slowly lowered the bulb back to the bottom of the beaker. Result: the temperature dropped back to 55 deg. C with the bulb on the bottom. Conclusion: since the hot water is lighter than the cool water, it rises to the top, where evaporation is sufficient to hold the temperature just below boiling. As you approach the bottom, the water gets colder, due to the tendency of the colder water to sink. Bottom line: as I guessed in my earlier post, the only place in the solution where the water is boiling is in the layer that is in contact with the heating element. Thus the average temperature of the solution is *far* below boiling, and that accounts for your apparent OU effect. --Mitchell Jones}*** >> >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 15:28:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13587; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:27:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:27:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:31:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex cc: John Schnurer Subject: BBGB Good! Mag! (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"n77Sg.0.AK3.LTjst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30221 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vortex, I have taken Scott Little's text and sort of divided it and added some numbers. Numbers [1] through [4] are GREAT examples of BBGB or BLOW-BY-GRINDING-BLOW He deserves big credit. If ALL "O/U" descriptions took this form and were as simple a lucid as this we would all get a LOT farther! John Subject: BBGB Good! Mag! From: Scott Little 1] Let's say the straight conductor is sticking out of the table top in front of us and the current is traveling up the wire. That makes the lines of B circle counterclockwise around the wire (as we look down on it). 2] Now take your electron squirt gun and place it on the table 10 cm to the right of the vertical wire and squirt some electrons straight up, parallel to the wire. The VxB force on the electrons (remember, they're negative) will cause them to travel clockwise in a sorta-circular path that will take them out to, say, 12 cm from the wire before they loop back again to their 10cm starting point. 3] Tilt the gun away from you to make a slight helix angle and, Voila, the stream of electrons starts to fill in zillions of parallel spiral paths that form a large, skinny toroid around the current-carrying vertical wire. 4] Now here comes the trick. As long as the vertical wire is carrying current, it is creating a counterclockwise B field that forces the electrons to move in the spiral toroidal paths. But Seward says the EST will be stable by itself...with small external stabilizing influences. What happens when we turn off the current in the wire? Will the circular B field remain intact, maintained by the circulating electrons? No. The B field generated by the circulating electrons is in the opposite direction to the one that got them circulating in the first place. 5] I can begin to see how an oppositely directed B field might result in stable toroidal spiral paths, but I'm wondering how the EST can possibly survive the switchover. Since the field has to reverse direction, it has to go through zero. Sounds like guaranteed disintegration to me...but I could easily be wrong. Scott Little ---------------- Other is one try, from John Schnurer Other: a] Maybe, at the bottom of the spiral path, there is a collector plate... and this collects the electrons and then they pass through the straight wire. Now all we need is a battery to keep it going, or maybe a cap. If the set up is storing a bunch of electrons then only a small fraction of the whole would be needed to energize the wire and run an electron gun. Has anyone looked at the patent pictures? Are there patent numbers anyone knows of? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 16:07:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24787; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:04:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:04:24 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990911155718.00a0e850 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:03:56 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: BBGB Good! Mag! (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"1bUsL3.0.A36.u_jst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30222 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > 1] Let's say the straight conductor is sticking >out of the table top in front of us and the current is traveling up the >wire. That makes the lines of B circle counterclockwise around the wire >(as we look down on it). > > 2] Now take your electron squirt gun and place it on >the table 10 cm to the right of the vertical wire and squirt some electrons >straight up, parallel to the wire. The VxB force on the electrons >(remember, they're negative) will cause them to travel clockwise in a >sorta-circular path that will take them out to, say, 12 cm from the wire >before they loop back again to their 10cm starting point. > In this instance, they would arc and fall into the wire in the plane contained by the original electron trajectory and the wire itself. The mag field is perpendicular to the wire and in a plane that is perpendicular to the wire, whereas the electron trajectory is parallel to the wire. vxB in this instance is in the plane of the original two trajectories, and perpendicular to the wire, hence, the electron won't be spiralling around the wire, it will be falling directly into the wire. The balance is thus incorrect due to this original error unless I am way missing something. The trick is that for the wire, the right hand rule means that the B field around the wire forms a circle and points in a different direction at any location you might place your e beam 12 cm from the wire, and parallel to the direction of the wire. Also, in the instance cited, "the current is travelling straight up the wire" by convention means that the electrons in the wire would actually be travelling down the wire, just to be clear, in that "current" means the direction that positive charges would be moving. Blast this if it is wrong. To me, any sort of conventional thing like this has zero chance for success. they would need to show me something that curves spacetime some unique way or wrenches the quantum vacuum some unexpected way. But a conventional device just ain't gonna get it in my book. rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 16:51:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01020; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:49:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:49:23 -0700 Message-ID: <03fc01befcb8$53564fa0$ad441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:45:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"i9S582.0.sF.3gkst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30223 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 3:11 PM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Mitchell Jones wrote: > > ***{My wife and I dug through a couple of stores, and finally found a "Good > Cook Immersion Heater," put out by Bradshaw International, item no. 16990. > This is a 200 watt coffee cup heater made in China. I filled a 250 ml > beaker to the 200 ml line with tap water, stuck in a lab quality mercury > thermometer. After it stabilized, it read 28 deg. C. I then plugged in the > heater and started a stopwatch. Result: the thermometer reading rose to 55 > deg. C over an interval of about 4 minutes, and stabilized there, despite > the fact that the water appeared to be boiling vigorously at that point. > Surprised, I carefully lifted it out of the beaker. As I did so, I noticed > that the reading spiked up very rapidly, then began falling when the bulb > emerged from the water. Next I lowered the bulb back until it was just > below the surface. Result: it stabilized at about 92 deg. C, as the water > continued to boil vigorously. Then I slowly lowered the bulb back to the > bottom of the beaker. Result: the temperature dropped back to 55 deg. C > with the bulb on the bottom. Conclusion: since the hot water is lighter > than the cool water, it rises to the top, where evaporation is sufficient > to hold the temperature just below boiling. As you approach the bottom, the > water gets colder, due to the tendency of the colder water to sink. Bottom > line: as I guessed in my earlier post, the only place in the solution where > the water is boiling is in the layer that is in contact with the heating > element. Thus the average temperature of the solution is *far* below > boiling, and that accounts for your apparent OU effect. --Mitchell Jones}*** Interesting,nice going, thanks. The best test would be stirring as Jed suggested and using a Dewar. Mizuno and Ohmori are set up to do this using a data logger and their computer programs to see if there is an exotherm spike in there. Don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 18:49:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09088; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:48:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:48:11 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990911204634.00982790 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:46:34 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Amin can't add? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"NSoCw.0.rD2.QPmst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30224 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There's a LOT of technical information on the Entropy Systems website...and some of it is kinda hidden. The detailed explanation of the Amin cycle is a large paper with lots of thermodynamic expressions that I could probably never wade through. However, I did find something interesting in a short document entitled, "Energy Analysis Tests On the Amin Cycle" located in Common Questions on the analysis of the Amin Cycle. http://www.entropysystems.com/downloads/Tests%20on%20Amin%20Cycle.pdf He presents a simple energy-level diagram showing 4 different energy levels corresponding to the 4 states of the engine in the Amin cycle. He's got arrows and labels on the delta-E's that correspond to each step in the Amin cycle. Below this diagram are a couple of sentences and about 9 simple equations relating the delta-E's. He starts out OK by stating that the sum of all the changes in energy around a complete cycle must equal to zero because we end up at the same energy level that we started at. But then it falls apart. As far as I can see, only two (3rd and 5th) of the remaining nine eqn's are correct!! The others all have either sign errors or conceptual errors...and the conclusion is therefore incorrect. Check it out...maybe I'm missing something. I don't understand the conclusion he's trying to reach either. It sounds like he's trying to prove that HIS cycle somehow gets around Conservation of Energy and produces net work every time it goes around a complete cycle. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 19:23:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA18752; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:21:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:21:50 -0700 From: bpaddock csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Amin can't add? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:14:28 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock csonline.net Message-ID: References: <3.0.5.32.19990911204634.00982790 mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990911204634.00982790 mail.eden.com> Lines: 15 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"rFu9Q.0.wa4.-umst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30225 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >There's a LOT of technical information on the Entropy Systems website...and >some of it is kinda hidden. The detailed explanation of the Amin cycle is The Amin Cycle is explained in chapter five of his book which you can find at http://www.oilcity.org/research/ . Any help? -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 19:56:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28864; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:55:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:55:30 -0700 Message-ID: <19990912025612.27840.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:56:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Amin cycle To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"8zm-h3.0.w27.YOnst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30226 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree with Scott that the posted analysis of the Amin cycle is meaningless. The posted analysis also does not account for the energy transfer to and from the gas when it is accelerated and decelerated. There is a claim that the engine converts 100% of the heat in (Q) wo mechanical work (W), because W = 76 W and Q = 76 W. However, Q is not measured. It is ASSUMED to be 76 W. The embodiment depicted in the drawings appears to be lossy. Whoever did the fluid dynamics design wasn't very knowledgable about fluid dynamics. Kind of strange from a company that says it makes engines and refrigeration units. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 20:11:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA02746; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:10:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:10:32 -0700 Message-ID: <19990912031113.29069.rocketmail send205.yahoomail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:11:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: EST. The power storage breakthrough. To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"IHPUV3.0.qg.ecnst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30227 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The plasma torus that supposedly sustains a large internal toroidal magnetic field generated by poloidally circulating electrons cannot exist in a vacuum, according to a basic theorem of magnetostatics; because this configuration has unbalanced magnetic forces. Gee, if life were this easy, we would have had hot fusion long ago. Unfortunately, plasmas can't be confined this way. I suspect that the experiment alluded to, but not described in enough detail to allow any real discussion, consists of some kind of a "vacuum" arc (an arc at very low background pressure, but with metal vaporizing slowly from the cathode). The only diagnostic mentioned was a video camera, i.e. visible light intensity. Arc columns often have visible structures. However, increased light emission does not necessarily mean either hotter or higher pressure plasma--just a condition that causes a particular atomic state to de-exite at that particular location and emit light. >From the little that I can "guestimate" from hte description of the plasma, it is nowhere near being a strongly coupled plasma. There is no suggestion in the Report that any measurements were made to establish the magnitude of hte coupling parameter in the experiment. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 20:54:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA16891; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:53:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:53:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990911235704.00a10540 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:57:04 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: EST. The power storage breakthrough. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990911155752.0090e4e0 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990911141732.00f2d820 inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id UAA16861 Resent-Message-ID: <"v9N9m.0.m74.cEost" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30228 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Scott and Vo, At 03:57 PM 09/11/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 02:17 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Quinney wrote: > >>I think these EST's can be made within a standard atmosphere and standard >>pressure. From the hobbyist's point of view using a shotgun approach, they >>could be created from a microwave burst onto a small [40] gauge poloidal >>coil. As the wire explodes into plasma it would simultaneously create the >>toroidal containment [magnetic] field. > >Seems to me there's a tricky problem in getting one formed. Seward says to >start with a circular mag field (like around a straight conductor) and then >squirt some electrons into the field such that they start spiraling around >the circular mag flux lines. Let's say the straight conductor is sticking >out of the table top in front of us and the current is traveling up the >wire. That makes the lines of B circle counterclockwise around the wire >(as we look down on it). Now take your electron squirt gun and place it on >the table 10 cm to the right of the vertical wire and squirt some electrons >straight up, parallel to the wire. The VxB force on the electrons >(remember, they're negative) will cause them to travel clockwise in a >sorta-circular path that will take them out to, say, 12 cm from the wire >before they loop back again to their 10cm starting point. Tilt the gun >away from you to make a slight helix angle and, Voila, the stream of >electrons starts to fill in zillions of parallel spiral paths that form a >large, skinny toroid around the current-carrying vertical wire. > >Now here comes the trick. As long as the vertical wire is carrying >current, it is creating a counterclockwise B field that forces the >electrons to move in the spiral toroidal paths. But Seward says the EST >will be stable by itself...with small external stabilizing influences. >What happens when we turn off the current in the wire? Will the circular B >field remain intact, maintained by the circulating electrons? No. The B >field generated by the circulating electrons is in the opposite direction >to the one that got them circulating in the first place. > >I can begin to see how an oppositely directed B field might result in >stable toroidal spiral paths, but I'm wondering how the EST can possibly >survive the switchover. Since the field has to reverse direction, it has >to go through zero. Sounds like guaranteed disintegration to me...but I >could easily be wrong. > I cannot answer that-- I am primarily a tinkerer/philosopher, and durn-it-all-- I've been doing some additional diggin' :-(( I am basically assuming that Seward's EST is a form of fireball. I'm pretty sure I'm correct about this but I recognize that I could be way off base. This whole field is still relatively new and unexplored. Research* shows that microwave standing-wave energy directed into any electric arc should create a plasmoid. I recognize the difficulties of forcing any plasmoid into any pre selected form and so if Seward has achieved this, then I must therefore assume that the EST is just another *natural* formation. Fireballs exhibit an interesting stability in nature while they exist. How do they arise without Seward's initial toroidal magnetic field and electron injection guns though? Are they just formed from standing waves and electric arcs? The reactions of the atmospheric gases must confuse the issue somewhat-- the different colors, transmutation reports [sulphur smell] and radiation type burns [from neutron emissions?]-- those are secondary to the main question. Can the fireballs be used for energy storage as Seward claims for EST's? Seward claims that microwaves add energy to the EST but.. that is also the current theory of how fireballs continue-- that they absorb high frequency RF generated from the local storm. If that fireball theory is correct, his technique for the creation of EST's in his patents may not be worth as much as he thinks it is, but the portion of the patents that deal with keeping the EST motionless and the specific technique of *how* he pumps in the microwave energy and *how* he releases the energy- those could possibly become very valuable. Maintaining the plasmoid's position steady must be tricky. They must be properly centered and held with the standing waves correctly positioned, possibly corresponding to low and high pressure areas.. [almost like creating a non-moving smoke ring?]. Difficulty arises in determining the correct design and voltages for the plates. Instead of that, assume that a toroidal fireball will *naturally* arise-- and that it will be in resonance to whatever electromagnetic standing-waves are nearby. Maybe a spurious high frequency spark-arc-gap transmitter would be best-- (but the 650 Watt, 2.45 GHz. microwave is certainly pretty handy.) This will allow the plasmoid to select from the EM environment whatever it needs to maintain itself. Do away totally with the poloidal coil, the electron gun, and the toroidal magnetic field and assume that the plasmoids will naturally structure themselves and will be almost identical to the EST's in basic form. Oops- I just thought of this-- Darn. There has to be more than one basic form, just as there is more that one Platonic solid. ( Oh well.. Nothing is ever simple. :-)) Best Regards, Colin Quinney * Two papers: Ball Lightning and Fireball (Experiment) Production of Fireball rising from the Water Surface Masashi Kamogawa, Hideho Ofuruton, Norihisa Kondo and Yoshi-Hiko Ohtsuki People have come across ball lightning phenomena all over the world. There are a lot of eyewitness reports of ball lightning published by many researchers [1-6]. These reports have showed many kinds of its properties. In these reports, there are some curious reports of ball lightning coming rise up from the water surface of the lake when lightning struck. Two reports of its eyewitness observations collected by Egely [4] are as follows: "Lightning strikes the surface of the lake. A glowing disk-shape ball lightning was ascending from where the lightning hit. The center of the glow was about 1 meter in diameter and the diameter of the ball lightning was about 2 to 3 meters and the edge was vague. " ( Australia ) "Lightning hit the surface of the lake and then, the orange color ball of which diameter was 10 to 20 centimeters was rising from the water. It climbed to the height of about 20 to 50 centimeter and moved 30 meters horizontally. Then it suddenly submerged under water and there was the sound of explosion and vapor was floating over the surface of the lake. "(USSR) On the other hand, theoretical models of ball lightning were proposed by many researchers. Especially, in 1955, Kapitza predicted that ball lightning should be produced at the region of the highest intensity of radio waves caused by thunderstorms [7]. This theoretical model motivated our experiment[8]. In 1991, Y.H.Ohtsuki and H.Ofuruton produced plasma fireballs by microwave interference in natural atmospheric air [8]. A plasma fireball could be formed by microwave interference and could exist in the metal cavity during power supply. The diameter of the plasma fireball was about 3cm, which was determined by many photographs and video records. And this experiment reproduced a lot of eyewitness observations of ball lightning such as motion against the wind and the ability to pass through a ceramic board intact without causing any damage or melting. However, this experiment could not reproduce a few eyewitness reports of ball lightning rising from the water surface. Because the frequency of microwave of this magnetron used in the experiment was 2.45GHz, therefore the most of the power of microwave was absorbed by water molecules. Another kind of the experiment was carried out[9]. We succeeded in making plasma fireball by discharge and microwave interference for about 0.5 seconds. This experiment indicated that the lifetime of plasma fireball by discharge with microwave power is a few ten times longer than only by discharge without microwave power. In this paper, we tried to reproduce the eyewitness reports on the fireball*s appearance from the water surface by discharge and microwave interference. (a) The fireball was formed at the discharge place and then, went upward (4/30 [s]) (b) The fireball touched the upper part of the cavity plate. (6/30 [s]) (c) The fireball bounced and then went into the waveguide. (1 [s]) (d) The fireball went forward through the waveguide. (3 [s]) Fig.2 The picture of the plasma fireball formation. [1]S.Singer in: Lightning ed. R.H.Golde, Academic Press, London, 409 (1977) [2]J.D.Barry, Ball Lightning and Bead Lightning, Plenum, New York (1980) [3]Y.H.Ohtsuki and H.Ofuruton Science of Ball Lightning (Fire Ball) (ed.Y.H.Ohtsuki),World scientific, Singapore, 31 (1989) [4] G.Egely, A TITOKZATOS GOMBVILLAM (in Hungarian), Muszaki Konyvkiado, Budapest (1988), Japanese translation : Mysterious light emitting body Ball Lightning, Maruzen, Tokyo (1988) [5]G.Egely Science of Ball Lightning (Fire Ball) (Ed. Y.H.Ohtsuki),World scientific, Singapore, 19 (1989) [6]Y.H.Ohtsuki and H.Ofuruton, Nuovo Cimento, 10C, 577 (1987) [7]P.L.Kapitza, Dokl. Akad. Nauk. (in Russian), 101, 245-248 (1955), English translation: "Collected Papers of Kapitza", Vol.2, Ed. By D.Ter Haar, Pergamon, New York (1965) [8]Y.H.Ohtsuki and H.Ofuruton, Nature, 350, 139 (1991) [9]H.Ofuruton, N.Kondo, M.Kamogawa and Y.H.Ohtsuki, Proc. 10th International Conference on Atmospheric Electricity (Osaka, Japan), 484 (1996) Experimental conditions of artificial ball lightning by using microwave and discharge Hideho OFURUTON, Norihisa KONDO*, Masashi KAMOGAWA*, Masao AOKI* and Yoshi-Hiko OHTSUKI* Tokyo Metropolitan College of Aeronautical Engineering 52-1, Minamisenju 8, Arakawa-ku, Tokyo 116, Japan *Department of Physics, Waseda University 4-1, Okubo 3, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 169, Japan Abstract : A plasma fireball was produced by using microwave radiation and electric discharge. Even if the power density of the microwave is low, if the electric discharge occurs additionally, the plasma fireball like ball lightning was produced. This indicates that ball lightning is not a rare phenomenon in spite of our understanding. 1. Introduction Ball lightning has been considered to be a rare phenomenon and some people think that it is an illusion. However, many scientists have studied on it and ball lightning is considered to be a real phenomenon in nature[1-5]. They have carried out researches by making models and by making experiments. In spite of their efforts, the nature of ball lightning is not understood yet. We made two kinds of experiments. One was the electric discharge experiment in flammable hydrocarbon gas of which density was under the lower limits of combustion[6]. This experiment was based on Barry's experiment[7]. Another was the plasma formation by using the interference of microwave in a metal cavity[8]. In the former experiment, we got a small fireball which was bounding in the chamber. In the latter experiment, we got a plasma fireball which went on a wire, went through a ceramic plate and went against the wind. In these two experiments, we succeeded in reproducing four properties of ball lightning. Then we consider that most of the ball lightning phenomena are plasma fireballs. Recently, we have made a new experiment by using both microwave and electric discharge. In this experiment, we got a plasma fireball without a cavity[9]. In this paper, we examined the possibility of producing the fireballs by using the microwave and the discharge. [1] S. Singer, The Nature of Ball Lightning', Plenum Press, New York (1971) [2] S. Singer, Lightning (ed. by R.H. Golde), 409-436, Academic Press, London (1977) [3] J.D. Barry, Ball Lightning and Bead Lightning, Plenum Press, New York (1980) [4] Y.H. Ohtsuki (ed.), Science of Ball Lightning (Fire Ball), World Scientific, Singapore (1989) [5] B.M. Smirnov, Phys. Rep., 224, 151-236 (1993) [6] H. Ofuruton and Y.H. Ohtsuki, Nuovo Cimento, 13C, 751-768 (1990) [7] J.D. Barry, J. Atmos. Terr. Phys., 30,313-316 (1968) [8] Y.H. Ohtsuki and H. Ofuruton, Nature, 350, 139-141 (1991) [9] H. Ofuruton et al., Proc. 10th Int. Conf. on Atmos. Electr., 484-487 (1996) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 21:11:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA22587; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:10:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:10:45 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: EST. The power storage breakthrough. Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:10:10 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0@inforamp.net> <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root@web01_mc.iname.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0@inforamp.net> <3.0.5.3 2.19990911141732.00f2d820 inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990911155752.0090e4e0@mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990911155752.0090e4e0 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA22566 Resent-Message-ID: <"_PK2a3.0.rW5.4Vost" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30229 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:57:52 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >Seems to me there's a tricky problem in getting one formed. Seward says to >start with a circular mag field (like around a straight conductor) and then >squirt some electrons into the field such that they start spiraling around >the circular mag flux lines. Let's say the straight conductor is sticking >out of the table top in front of us and the current is traveling up the >wire. That makes the lines of B circle counterclockwise around the wire >(as we look down on it). Now take your electron squirt gun and place it on >the table 10 cm to the right of the vertical wire and squirt some electrons >straight up, parallel to the wire. The VxB force on the electrons [snip] Hi Scott, What happens if you start off squirting the electrons down instead of up? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 23:19:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA15372; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:18:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:18:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37DB43A0.1A364B9 ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:09:36 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: BBGB Good! Mag! (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VERWh.0.6m3.iMqst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30231 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There are always problems with examples, the word current is opposite to the direction the electrons are actually flowing, If you didn't know that you would think that the direction of the "current" and the direction of the electrons was one and the same. John Schnurer wrote: > Dear Vortex, > > I have taken Scott Little's text and sort of divided it and added > some numbers. > > Numbers [1] through [4] are GREAT examples of BBGB or > > BLOW-BY-GRINDING-BLOW > > He deserves big credit. > If ALL "O/U" descriptions took this form and were as simple a > lucid as this we would all get a LOT farther! > > John > Subject: BBGB Good! Mag! > > From: Scott Little > > 1] Let's say the straight conductor is sticking > out of the table top in front of us and the current is traveling up the > wire. That makes the lines of B circle counterclockwise around the wire > (as we look down on it). > > 2] Now take your electron squirt gun and place it on > the table 10 cm to the right of the vertical wire and squirt some electrons > straight up, parallel to the wire. The VxB force on the electrons > (remember, they're negative) will cause them to travel clockwise in a > sorta-circular path that will take them out to, say, 12 cm from the wire > before they loop back again to their 10cm starting point. > > 3] Tilt the gun away from you to make a slight helix angle and, > Voila, the stream of electrons starts to fill in zillions of parallel > spiral paths that form a large, skinny toroid around the current-carrying > vertical wire. > > 4] Now here comes the trick. As long as the vertical wire is > carrying current, it is creating a counterclockwise B field that forces > the electrons to move in the spiral toroidal paths. But Seward says the > EST will be stable by itself...with small external stabilizing influences. > What happens when we turn off the current in the wire? Will the circular > B field remain intact, maintained by the circulating electrons? No. The B > field generated by the circulating electrons is in the opposite direction > to the one that got them circulating in the first place. > > 5] I can begin to see how an oppositely directed B field might > result in stable toroidal spiral paths, but I'm wondering how the EST can > possibly survive the switchover. Since the field has to reverse > direction, it has to go through zero. Sounds like guaranteed > disintegration to me...but I could easily be wrong. > > Scott Little > ---------------- > Other is one try, from John Schnurer > > Other: > > a] Maybe, at the bottom of the spiral path, there is a > collector plate... and this collects the electrons and then they pass > through the straight wire. Now all we need is a battery to keep it going, > or maybe a cap. If the set up is storing a bunch of electrons then only a > small fraction of the whole would be needed to energize the wire and run > an electron gun. > > Has anyone looked at the patent pictures? Are there patent > numbers anyone knows of? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 23:19:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA14873; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:18:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:18:10 -0700 Message-ID: <37DB451D.3AD296C8 ihug.co.nz> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:15:57 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uBkfw.0.Je3.YMqst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30230 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know if this is a totally boring already known fact, but water with lots of detergent in it heated in a microwave hardly boiled, it can get very very hot, then you put anything in it, it virtually explodes and boils as it can be well above boiling yet totally still, the detergent makes the bubbles larger so the end result is rather odd. If you try it, just be careful or you will end up with a scorched face full of water and detergent. John Berry Mitchell Jones wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Mitchell Jones > >To: > >Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 9:39 AM > >Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater > > > >Mitch Jones wrote: > > > >> >The 73.5 ohm heating element operated at 117.5 volts at the > >> >wall-socket calculates out to 188 watts spread over 51 cm^2 > >> >of heater surface or about 3.7 watts/cm^2, a very low wattage > >> >density that does not create any bubbles or sound until the 250 ml > >> >of water in the cup gets to the 94,4 deg C boiling point. > >> > > >> >Careful timing and observiing a thermometer that arrests at > >> >about 94 C 285 seconds after power is applied, indicates > >> >188*285 = 53,580 joules input, and 77,460 joules in > >> >the 250 ml of water, or output is about 1.45 times input, > >> >ignoring the heat absorbed in the cup and heater unit. > >> > > >> >Speculation: > >> > > >> >At around 350 deg K (2898/350 ~= 8.28 Micron, 0.15 ev IR Photons) > >> >when a sound can be heard, there are > >> >Light Lepton-Neutrino-Antineutrino Pairs formed at theheater surface. > >> >These in turn form a Hydrino and Electrino Gas that initiates the > >> >Microbubbles that create the sound. > >> > > >> >Having said this, I will be in hiding for the next few days. :-) > >> > > >> >Regards, Frederick > >> > >> ***{All right, Fred, I would say that you have everybody hooked. Now are > >> you going to tell us the brand name and model of the coffee cup heater, > >and > >> the store where you bought it, so we can check this out for ourselves, or > >> is that information going to remain your secret? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > >The Package with the plastic Bubble just says Instant Immersion Heater, > >UL Listed 24 J2 $3.00 Made in Taiwan. My wife, who makes Inspector Gadget > >look primitive picked it up For Half price (of course). > > > >Bright Chrome plate on the element (about 11" long coiled x .25 "dia. 200w > > 120 vac. > > > >Regards, Frederick > > ***{My wife and I dug through a couple of stores, and finally found a "Good > Cook Immersion Heater," put out by Bradshaw International, item no. 16990. > This is a 200 watt coffee cup heater made in China. I filled a 250 ml > beaker to the 200 ml line with tap water, stuck in a lab quality mercury > thermometer. After it stabilized, it read 28 deg. C. I then plugged in the > heater and started a stopwatch. Result: the thermometer reading rose to 55 > deg. C over an interval of about 4 minutes, and stabilized there, despite > the fact that the water appeared to be boiling vigorously at that point. > Surprised, I carefully lifted it out of the beaker. As I did so, I noticed > that the reading spiked up very rapidly, then began falling when the bulb > emerged from the water. Next I lowered the bulb back until it was just > below the surface. Result: it stabilized at about 92 deg. C, as the water > continued to boil vigorously. Then I slowly lowered the bulb back to the > bottom of the beaker. Result: the temperature dropped back to 55 deg. C > with the bulb on the bottom. Conclusion: since the hot water is lighter > than the cool water, it rises to the top, where evaporation is sufficient > to hold the temperature just below boiling. As you approach the bottom, the > water gets colder, due to the tendency of the colder water to sink. Bottom > line: as I guessed in my earlier post, the only place in the solution where > the water is boiling is in the layer that is in contact with the heating > element. Thus the average temperature of the solution is *far* below > boiling, and that accounts for your apparent OU effect. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >> > >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 11 23:58:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA22005; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:57:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:57:29 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Common sense Sparks are flying!!! Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:56:55 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: < <3.0.1.32.19990909172007.00710444@mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990909172007.00710444 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA21982 Resent-Message-ID: <"fhyyP3.0.hN5.Pxqst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30232 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:20:07 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >The whole Ken Shoulders charge cluster thing has been attributed to ZPE. >When the electrons are first boiling off the cathode tip in a really >fast-rising discharge, the electron density in space adjacent to the tip >should become high enough for the Casimir compressive forces (acting on the >boundaries of the electron cloud) to overcome the Coulomb repulsion forces >among the electrons such that the cloud of electrons condenses into a tiny >blob...or ring. This is the "charge cluster" that Shoulder's did all his >work on. If it exists...and if it forms as described above, it will >contain energy that came from the ZPF...i.e. the amount of work done on it >by the ZPF to condense it. [snip] Now that you mention it, the EST (from the other thread), might also be a useable model for Ken's EV. Though I'm not sure how well they would link together. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 02:07:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA05995; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:07:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:07:17 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 10, 1999] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:06:41 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <37D9A734.E2A93838 ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <37D9A734.E2A93838 ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA05979 Resent-Message-ID: <"G7K-p.0.bT1.4rsst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30233 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:49:56 -0700, Akira Kawasaki wrote: >WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 10 Sep 99 Washington, DC [snip] >Association (WN 3 Apr 98). Now in the eighth grade, Emily came >home one day and announced that her teacher was giving evolution >the "it's-JUST-a-theory" treatment. This, it turns out, was in But it is just a theory. They all are. There is no such thing as certainty. There are no "laws" (physical). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 02:16:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA07925; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:14:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:14:18 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:13:46 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <37DA603B.74F7@ca-ois.com> In-Reply-To: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id CAA07904 Resent-Message-ID: <"_wnO52.0.hx1.gxsst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30234 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:59:23 -0700, Jim Ostrowski wrote: [snip] >For example Beiser, who has written a very good first year college >physics book called "Physics", which I refer to frequently for help with >lots of different physics questions puts it this way: > >Pg. 723 > >"The wave theory of light is necessary to explain diffraction and >interference phenomena which the quantum theory cannot explain, and the >quantum theory of light is necessary to explain the photoelectric >effect, which the wave theory cannot explain." Now why can't a quantum of light comprise a wave train? (i.e. a specific number of waves, with a beginning and an end). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 03:02:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA13785; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:01:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:01:58 -0700 Message-ID: <001301befd0d$f6ff9620$46441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:59:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"SMDm51.0.8N3.Letst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30235 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting what a simple experiment can teach about heat transfer and related effects in tapwater. :-) The boiling curves show that with the immersion heater surface about 6 deg K warmer than the water (at 3-4 watts/cm^2) when the water gets to 6 degrees below it's boiling point, the heater surface is at the boiling point and thus starts to create steam at the interface,concurrently creating noise. As the delta-T between the heat source and water is increased and the heat flux increases, this effect becomes more spectacular, until you get the effects seen with the Mizuno-Ohmori glow discharge experiments. In water heat pipe wicking experiments you can push the flux density past 100 watts/cm^2 by tightly wrapping the cartridge heater with two or three layers of 100-200 mesh wirecloth. This might work as a way to create Microbubbles and possibly yield sonoluminescence effects, using heat instead of ultrasound. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 03:58:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA18773; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:57:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:57:38 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01befd15$9a405340$46441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Alternatives to Tungsten in the Mizuno-Ohmori Experiments Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:53:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"yc6.0.Fb4.YSust" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30236 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In response to Tom Stolper's question about using something other than Tungsten in the M&O Glow Discharge Experiments, I had proposed Mercury since it does not form any stable oxide compounds. However, given the toxicity hazards of mercury, unless it is used in a closed/pressurized cell (pipe) Silver would probably be the next best choice since it's oxides are unstable above 230 deg C. Frankly, a loop of Nichrome wire carrying a few hundred watts, at a red heat, immersed in the H2O-K2CO3 or D2O-K2CO3 would probably get results similar to the Tungsten glow discharge experiments, without all of the chemical reaction "artifacts". It could also be biased so as to act as a cathode,too. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 06:06:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00567; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:05:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:05:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990912080410.0097d100 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:04:10 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990911155718.00a0e850 pop3.oro.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lkjCm3.0.n8.bKwst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30237 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lot's of comments rolled into one message: At 04:03 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >In this instance, they would arc and fall into the wire in the plane >contained by the original electron trajectory and the wire itself. You've got the direction wrong, I believe. In my table-top example, current (positive charge) is flowing straight up in a vertical wire. 10 cm to the right of that wire, electrons are fired straight up, parallel to the wire. The Lorentz force on those electrons (negative charges) is to the right, away from the wire. If the B field around the wire is sufficiently strong, the electrons will travel in egg-shaped (because B is not uniform) loops. At 02:10 PM 9/12/99 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >What happens if you start off squirting the electrons down instead of >up? Then their initial deflection is towards the wire but, with sufficient B field, they will not strike the wire but still end up in sorta-circular loops because they're traveling at right angles to a sorta-uniform B field. At 06:09 PM 9/12/99 +1200, John Berry wrote: >There are always problems with examples, the word current is opposite to the >direction the electrons are actually flowing, If you didn't know that you would >think that the direction of the "current" and the direction of the electrons was >one and the same. Yes, I have finally gotten so used to this aspect of EM that I only make mistakes every once in a while...instead of every time! At 08:11 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: >The plasma torus that supposedly sustains a large internal toroidal magnetic >field generated by poloidally circulating electrons cannot exist in a vacuum, >according to a basic theorem of magnetostatics; because this configuration >has unbalanced magnetic forces. Gee, if life were this easy, we would have >had hot fusion long ago. Unfortunately, plasmas can't be confined this way. It strikes me as bad news for the EST that our resident plasma physicist has no doubt that the EST is impossible! Michael, there are several patents awarded to Seward on this thing. I got the latest one but haven't studied it yet. I'll look at it Monday and let you know if it appears to contain a decent explanation of the EST's purported stability. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 08:02:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02453; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:01:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:01:09 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990912110508.011e04f0 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:05:08 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990912080410.0097d100 mail.eden.com> References: <4.1.19990911155718.00a0e850 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"C1Vif1.0.Ac.r0yst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30238 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW, all comments may be correct on one level, but I think everyone is missing the main point. Totally forget (for the moment) about Seward's *new* technique of plasmoid creation [as described in his patents]. What if the initiation setup technique is just a red herring? Assume instead, that he has created a natural plasmoid, something we can all easily do by simply feeding microwaves into an electric arc. What's REALLY important about Seward's patents: 1. Holding the plasmoid rock-steady. 2. Pumping in energy. 3. Extracting that energy. Regards, Colin Quinney At 08:04 AM 09/12/99 -0500, Scott wrote: >Lot's of comments rolled into one message: > >At 04:03 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >You've got the direction wrong, I believe. >At 02:10 PM 9/12/99 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >>What happens if you start off squirting the electrons down instead of >>up? >At 06:09 PM 9/12/99 +1200, John Berry wrote: the word current is opposite to the direction the electrons are actually flowing, >At 08:11 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: Unfortunately, plasmas can't be confined this way. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 09:35:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06045; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:35:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:35:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:39:29 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Real main point : Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990912110508.011e04f0 inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"boUot1.0.MU1.vOzst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30239 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer Writes: THE REAL MAIN POINT OF BBGB The REAL main point of BBGB, or Blow By Grinding Blow is NOT if it works of not! The REAL MAIN POINT OF BBGB: I was complementing Scott on a lucid manner of describing what was in his mind! If ALL contributions were this lucid, clear, we would all be a lot better off .... Suppose every question you asked of Newman were answered in this fashion? How about if you asked Beardon about Scalar and Puthoff about Zero Point and ALL the decriptions were laid out in this manner ! JHS On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Quinney wrote: > FWIW, all comments may be correct on one level, but I think everyone is > missing the main point. > > Totally forget (for the moment) about Seward's *new* technique of plasmoid > creation [as described in his patents]. What if the initiation setup > technique is just a red herring? Assume instead, that he has created a > natural plasmoid, something we can all easily do by simply feeding > microwaves into an electric arc. > > What's REALLY important about Seward's patents: > > 1. Holding the plasmoid rock-steady. > > 2. Pumping in energy. > > 3. Extracting that energy. > > Regards, > Colin Quinney > > At 08:04 AM 09/12/99 -0500, Scott wrote: > >Lot's of comments rolled into one message: > > > >At 04:03 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: > >You've got the direction wrong, I believe. > >At 02:10 PM 9/12/99 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >>What happens if you start off squirting the electrons down instead of > >>up? > >At 06:09 PM 9/12/99 +1200, John Berry wrote: > the word current is opposite to the direction the electrons are actually > flowing, > >At 08:11 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: > Unfortunately, plasmas can't be confined this way. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 10:13:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17219; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:12:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:12:20 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990912095542.009f68d0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:12:01 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990912080410.0097d100 mail.eden.com> References: <4.1.19990911155718.00a0e850 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"xvNRo2.0.uC4.pxzst" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30240 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: (Post writing the below......Note: I discovered I had the direction wrong below as you will see, but there is still no egg shaped spiralling action so see if you agree with the description below) rt At 08:04 AM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Lot's of comments rolled into one message: > >At 04:03 PM 9/11/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: > >>In this instance, they would arc and fall into the wire in the plane >>contained by the original electron trajectory and the wire itself. > >You've got the direction wrong, I believe. Let's try again because either I am not understanding the geometry (which I doubt) or you are wrong, or I really need to go back and open the books because I am wrong, so let's figure it out. First of all, we must use the right hand rule to determine the direction of the magnetic field in any location, and we must also use that rule to determine the direction of force imposed on the moving charges. So: In my table-top example, >current (positive charge) is flowing straight up in a vertical wire. Fine. If the current (positive charge) is flowing straight up, then you point the thumb of your right hand up, and you curl your right hand fingers around your thumb. That is the direction of the B field. It is going around the wire in circular fashion and pointing in the direction around that circle as do your right hand finger tips. Agreed so far? 10 cm >to the right of that wire, electrons are fired straight up, parallel to the >wire. Fine, so we have the wire, and the beam of electrons thus: wire beam of electrons ^ ^ | | | | |<---------- 10 cm ----------->| ___________________________________________ ^^^^ table top ^^^^ Now, to get the force on the electrons, we must apply the right hand rule the second time, now that we know that the B field in the above diagram is into the screen at the location of the wire. To do so, we point the finger tips of our right hand in the direction of the current (which is down since you use positive charge and you have electrons, ergo negative, going up) Then, we curl our fingers into a 90 degree direction, keeping the palm of the hand still pointing downward so that the fingers curl into the page and the palm is flat on the screen. We then look at the direction of the thumb on the right hand and I find that I goofed too. My thumb is pointing to my right on the screen. Meaning that the electrons will be repulsed from the wire under these conditions rather than falling into the wire as I had said before. But, the electrons are still in the plane defined by the wire and the beam path. So they aren't spiraling around the wire. Reflecting, this makes sense because really, we have the "current" in the wire and the current in the beam moving in opposite directions and so they should repulse, whereas two wires with current flowing in the same direction will attract. However, in neither instance will the electron beam spiral. To spiral, you need to have a component of the electron beam vector that is NOT parallel to the wire. If you think the above is incorrect, let me know where and why. The Lorentz force on those electrons (negative charges) is to the >right, away from the wire. If the B field around the wire is sufficiently >strong, the electrons will travel in egg-shaped (because B is not uniform) >loops. No. They will travel away from the wire, to the right in the above example, approaching, but never reaching, a flight path perpendicular to the wire. Ross Tessien From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 10:25:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21301; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:24:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:24:44 -0700 Message-ID: <37DBE2EF.4E9D ca-ois.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:29:19 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <37DA603B.74F7@ca-ois.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qu_oy1.0.lC5.R7-st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30241 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:59:23 -0700, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > >[snip]... [Beiser] puts it this way: > >Pg. 723 > > > >"The wave theory of light is necessary to explain diffraction and > >interference phenomena which the quantum theory cannot explain, and the > >quantum theory of light is necessary to explain the photoelectric > >effect, which the wave theory cannot explain." > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Now why can't a quantum of light comprise a wave train? > (i.e. a specific number of waves, with a beginning and an end). I think that's a very good question! When I recently started looking into this I asked myself the same thing more or less. IOW... How many cycles of an em radiation comprise a "photon"? If energy values must be included in the calculation as in Planck's formula*, how is this calculation performed so that you know when you have a "1 photon" of em radiation coming out of your rf signal generator? Say I have an rf generator putting out 100 mhz sine wave at 10 v p-p amplitude into 1 k resistor. How many cycles of the 100 mhz must the generator produce in order to make 1 photon? *Planck's formula , E = hv where E is the energy of the photon, v is the frequency of the radiation, and h = 6.63 * 10E-34 joule-second. A joule second is a measure of the "duration" of the energy in the photon, I guess. The odd thing about this though is that it would seem that we could leave the current through the resistor out of this calculation, according to Planck. This is difficult because ohm's law would say that that the energetic value of the radiation is dependent on the resistor value, right? Anyway proceeding with Planck's formula: E of our RF Photon would = 100 mhz * 6.63 * 10E-34 = 6.63 * 10E-26 Joules per second. Doing an energy calculation with Ohm's formulas: E = V^2/r 10v^2 = 100 100/1000 = 10 Joules continuous. Dividing 10 joules continuous by 6.63 * 10E-26 Joules per second yields= 1.508E+26 photons per second at 100 mhz into a 1k resistor at 10 acv, according to the calculator that comes with Windows. How can that be? There are way more photons than there are cycles per second in this arrangement. How do you get 1 photon of radiation at 100 mhz? Let's see. We can try reducing v and/or increasing r maybe? Anybody see anything wrong with my math or procedure? Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 10:53:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29531; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:53:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:53:07 -0700 Message-ID: <37DBEA72.644C ca-ois.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:01:23 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Light waves w/ DC Offset References: <37DA603B.74F7@ca-ois.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z3LV73.0.FD7.3Y-st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30242 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear vorts, Everybody knows that light waves are a manifestation of electromagnetic oscillations that presumably cycle through a peak (+) value in volts , through zero to a peak (-) value in volts. What detectable difference would there be in light waves that propagate with a dc offset? Is such a propagtion mode possible? Lets say you have an rf generator capable of pumping varying DC through a resistor OR an antenna wire. The voltage across the load never crosses zero, but goes from a peak + value down to say .1v and then back to the peak + of say 10v at a repetiton rate of 100 mhz. What would a recieving antenna. located at a distance r of such a transmission make of this? Any radio people out there have an idea? Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 11:20:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04914; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:20:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:20:12 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990911105915.007a6100 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990910132122.007a0ae0 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:17:57 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"voVin2.0.iC1.Sx-st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30243 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Mitchell Jones, who doesn't speak language, writes: > > Since you claim Mizuno was over unity, you imply that Scott > didn't do a proper replication. Enough said. > >I imply? You read this implication into the message. I cannot help it if >you ignore what I write and you respond to imaginary "implications." In an >academic debate it would be more productive for you to respond to what >people actually say, rather than flailing away at imaginary new-age >deconstructive "implications." ***{This is utterly absurd. What possible purpose can be served by this ludicrous pretense that I have somehow insulted you by stating a fact that is obvious to everyone--to wit: that the proponents of Mizuno's experiment think Scott didn't do a proper replication? By the very act of inferring that you were one of the people referenced by the statement, you assign yourself the status of "proponent of the Mizuno experiment," after which the conclusion of my statement inexorably follows. What in the name of god is the matter with you? Surely you have better things to do than waste my time debating about pointless crap such as this? --Mitchell Jones}*** > >I have *categorically* and *repeatedly* stated that I do not know whether >Mizuno and Ohmori are making a mistake in calorimetry, or whether Little is >doing the electrochemistry wrong. I would never say an effect is real until >10 or 20 people have replicated at high sigma. That has not happened with >the glow discharge excess heat yet, so I reserve judgement. ***{Horse manure. As noted previously, by the very act of inferring that I was talkiing about you when I referred to "proponents of the Mizuno experiment," you assign yourself to the category of those who have *not* reserved judgment. You know it, I know it, and everyone else who reads this group knows it. The only question is, when are you going to stop wasting our time trying to prove the unprovable? --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > Given the scurrilous charges that you have routinely hurled at > [Scott Little] in the past, I am sure he feels as if he is > walking on eggs whenever he finds himself interacting with you, > and is relieved when you are not engaged in overt name calling. > >That's preposterous. Scott Little is not afraid of me! He does not walk on >eggs for anyone. What next? Will you accuse me of frightening John Bockris >or General Schwartzkopf? Ask Scott if he has ever felt a tiny bit >intimidated by me. The idea's ridiculous. ***{More nonsense. The question of whether Scott Little is afraid of you was never at issue. One person does not need to be afraid of another in order to anticipate an unpleasant episode when dealing with him. Such anticipations arise out of past experience, and from what I have seen, Scott's past dealings with you have been such as to lead him to expect unpleasantness in the future. Why so? Simple: you tend to fixate on personalities rather than substance; you take offense when none is intended; and you make mountains out of molehills, as here. --Mtichell Jones}*** > > > [Newman] would be out of his mind if he cooperated with you, > that's for sure. > >More scientists have cooperated with me and provided me with detailed data >than with anyone else in this field except Eugene Mallove and Hal Fox. When >a researcher will not cooperate with me, you can take that as good evidence >he is a flake, or he is trying to hide a mistake. ***{That is a self-serving interpretation if ever there was one. In point of fact, you will never be justified in drawing such conclusions until you clean up your act. That means you will have to become an unbiased reporter--one who is uninfluenced by a researcher's personality, beliefs, and lifestyle, or by gossip about him, and who focuses on whether or not his technology performs as claimed--before you will be justified in drawing such inferences. At present, there are *lots* of valid reasons that might prompt researchers to refuse to cooperate with you--reasons which do *not* imply anything negative about them or their research. --Mitchell Jones}*** > >- Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 11:36:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09926; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:36:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:36:15 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990912113319.009f56f0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:35:59 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset In-Reply-To: <37DBEA72.644C ca-ois.com> References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eJ7KV3.0.xQ2.UA_st" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30244 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Simple: A time variable delta V at frequency 100 mHz of 9.9 volts. Wavelength on the order of 3 million km so impedance control in your wires doesn't matter unless you build a transmission line around 3 million km long, and that it is just slowly varying DC as far as any circuit I know of would care. rt >Lets say you have an rf generator capable of pumping varying DC through >a resistor OR an antenna wire. The voltage across the load never crosses >zero, but goes from a peak + value down to say .1v and then back to the >peak + of say 10v at a repetiton rate of 100 mhz. What would a recieving >antenna. located at a distance r of such a transmission make of this? > >Any radio people out there have an idea? > >Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 14:39:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26874; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:37:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:37:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990912163622.0098b340 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:36:22 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990912095542.009f68d0 pop3.oro.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990912080410.0097d100 mail.eden.com> <4.1.19990911155718.00a0e850 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"YvhW.0.qZ6.lq1tt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30245 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:12 AM 9/12/99 -0700, Ross Tessien wrote: >My thumb is pointing to my right on the screen. Meaning that the electrons >will be repulsed from the wire under these conditions rather than falling >into the wire as I had said before. Right, so they'll curve like this: wire ^ .> | . | . |<---------- 10 cm ----------->. _______________________________________ ^^^^ table top ^^^^ ...and since the B is everywhere into the screen, they'll continue to curve like this: wire ^ . . | . . | . . |<---------- 10 cm ----------->. v _______________________________________ ^^^^ table top ^^^^ By golly, B is STILL everywhere into the screen so the electrons will actually curve back around to where they started from: wire ^ . . | . . | . . |<---------- 10 cm ----------->^ . ______________________________________ . . ^^^^ table top ^^^^ . . If the B was perfectly uniform, the electron path would be a perfect circle. The B falls off as 1/r away from the wire and I am GUESSING that will result in paths that are still closed but non-circular. > But, the electrons are still in the >plane defined by the wire and the beam path. So they aren't spiraling >around the wire. That is why I added the following to my original post: >Tilt the gun away from you to make a slight helix angle and, Voila, the stream >of electrons starts to fill in zillions of parallel spiral paths that form a >large, skinny toroid around the current-carrying vertical wire. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 14:52:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA32172; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:51:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:51:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990912164946.008c7430 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:49:46 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990911105915.007a6100 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990910132122.007a0ae0 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8uevi3.0.cs7.O12tt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30246 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:17 PM 9/12/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: >***{This is utterly absurd. What possible purpose can be served by this >ludicrous pretense that I have somehow insulted you by stating a fact that >is obvious to everyone--to wit: that the proponents of Mizuno's experiment >think Scott didn't do a proper replication? Lighten up, Mitchell. Jed's attitude towards Mizuno's work has been most even-handed. When writing about the differences between my results, Ed Wall's results, and the various Japanese results, he has always explicitly included the possibility that their calorimetry might be in error. Jed and I have had our differences in the past but they were largely concerned with language...not fact (like the time I used the terms "pathological science" and "cold fusion" in the same sentence...whew!) If we succeed in getting Mizuno's experiment to replicate here in the US, it will be largely because of Jed's constructive efforts. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 16:15:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20120; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:11:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:11:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990912164946.008c7430 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990911105915.007a6100 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990910132122.007a0ae0 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:09:03 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS Resent-Message-ID: <"T0N_r3.0.Gw4.9C3tt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30247 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 01:17 PM 9/12/99 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote: > >>***{This is utterly absurd. What possible purpose can be served by this >>ludicrous pretense that I have somehow insulted you by stating a fact that >>is obvious to everyone--to wit: that the proponents of Mizuno's experiment >>think Scott didn't do a proper replication? > >Lighten up, Mitchell. Jed's attitude towards Mizuno's work has been most >even-handed. When writing about the differences between my results, Ed >Wall's results, and the various Japanese results, he has always explicitly >included the possibility that their calorimetry might be in error. ***{Tell it to Jed, not to me. He is the one who leaped forward and indignantly wrapped himself in the mantle of "proponent of the Mizuno experiment," despite his not being named in the statement in question. For the record: my original statement was deliberately couched in generalities precisely *because* I didn't want to get into the sort of tiresome, preposterous exchange that, despite my best efforts, I now find myself in! How can I lighten up, when dealing with someone who is so eager to take offense that he will wax indignant and inform me that he "resents" a statement that (a) was not pejoriative in content, and (b) that did not refer to any person in particular? --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Jed and I have had our differences in the past but they were largely >concerned with language...not fact (like the time I used the terms >"pathological science" and "cold fusion" in the same sentence...whew!) If >we succeed in getting Mizuno's experiment to replicate here in the US, it >will be largely because of Jed's constructive efforts. ***{I am glad that, at the moment, the two of you are getting along. Unfortunately, Jed and I are *not* getting along, and that state of affairs will continue until he ceases to react with indignation to statements that have been deliberately worded in general terms, to give an "out" to any specific individual whose views are similar to those described, but not exactly the same. Let me be very specific: I did not say "Jed Rothwell simply claimed that you didn't do a proper replication." Instead, I said: "The proponents of the experiment simply claimed that you didn't do a proper replication." The difference is crucial: Jed Rothwell was not mentioned at all. Result: if he does not consider himself to be a "proponent of the experiment," then there is nothing for him to take umbrage about, and no reason for him to indignantly inform me that he "resents" my statement. If, for the sake of clarity, he felt he had to express himself on the subject, he might have simply said something such as: "For the record: I am not a "proponent of the Mizuno experiment," since I have maintained for some time that it is not yet clear whether the Mizuno cell works or not." Had he done that, I would have had no further comment on the topic, and the present, seemingly endless, time-wasting diversion would never have happened. Bottom line: when Jed has been given an "out," he should learn to take it. Instead, he seems hell-bent on picking a fight merely for the sake of fighting. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >Scott Little >EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 >512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) >little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 21:14:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA11427; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:13:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:13:26 -0700 Message-ID: <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"PgZEA1.0.Po2.cd7tt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30248 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: >Right, so they'll curve like this: > > > > wire > ^ .> > | . > | . > |<---------- 10 cm ----------->. > _______________________________________ > ^^^^ table top ^^^^ > > ...and since the B is everywhere into the screen, they'll continue to curve > > like this: > > wire > ^ . . > | . . > | . . > |<---------- 10 cm ----------->. v > _______________________________________ > ^^^^ table top ^^^^ > > By golly, B is STILL everywhere into the screen so the electrons will > actually curve back around to where they started from: > > wire > ^ . . > | . . > | . . > |<---------- 10 cm ----------->^ . > ______________________________________ . . > ^^^^ table top ^^^^ . . > >If the B was perfectly uniform, the electron path would be a perfect >circle. The B falls off as 1/r away from the wire and I am GUESSING that >will result in paths that are still closed but non-circular. * Good work, Scott, except right at the end. The electron trajectory does not close on itself. It goes slowly downward, in a cycloid-like trajectory. To the best of my ascii drawing ability, wire ^ . . | . . | . . . . |<---------- 10 cm ----------->^. . . ____________________________________ . . ^^^^ table top ^^^^ . . . <.. . . <.. >>But, the electrons are still in the >>plane defined by the wire and the beam path. So they aren't spiraling >>around the wire. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 21:36:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA16574; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:36:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:36:07 -0700 Message-ID: <006f01befda9$9c1254e0$46441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Mizuno-Ohmori Experiment Too Complicated? Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:32:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"san813.0.u24.sy7tt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30249 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Following is experimentally determined heat transfer data for a heated Platinum plate or wire for water: Tsurface - Twater Deg F * Q/A, Btu/(hr)(ft^2* 1 to 10 1.0E3 to 1.0E4 10 to 100 1.0E4 to 5.0E5 100 to 1000 ~ constant, 2.0E5 1000 to 10,000 1.5E5 to > 1.0E6 *Conversion to Deg K and watts/cm^2 will cost you extra. :-) A wire immersed in D2O-K2CO3 or H2O-K2CO3, heated using a low voltage-high current power supply (Welder or Battery Charger) should give better data than the M&O Glow Discharge Experiments: 14 Ga., 1.628 mm dia wire Ohm/cm length NiCr 5.40E-3 Pt 4.81E-4 Au 1.17E-4 Ag 7.83E-5 This is done routinely for "slabbing" Polystyrene Foam with hot wires. Conductive Springs are used to keep the wires taut. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 12 23:11:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA09211; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:09:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:09:12 -0700 Message-ID: <008301befdb6$9ce23c20$46441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Sub-Critical Self-Sustaining D2O-H2O- K2CO3 Capsules Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:06:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Am4Ri3.0.rF2.7K9tt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30250 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those still interested in CF-OU Phenomena. Whilst Ed and Scott are piddling around in lala land, reminiscent of Pinky and The Brain. :-) Capsules made from capped 1/8 inch Pipe and partially filled with D2O-K2CO3 or H2O-K2CO3, can be heated in an oven to temperatures up to 705 F and pressures up to ~3,200 Psig. Stored in a granular insulation, with monitoring of the temperatures might show self-sustaining-ou phenomena. WITH SAFETY DISCLAIMER, and contrite apologies to Ed and Scott. :-( Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 01:31:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01118; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:29:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:29:53 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:33:35 -0500 X-Sender: temalloy metro.lakes.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH Resent-Message-ID: <"mNDZy.0.OH.0OBtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30251 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Joe; I noticed the discussion about testing your new motor and I wanted to relay what the late Otto Schmitt had to say about measuring energy output. The one indicator that can't be fooled is heat emparted to water. My engineer friend and I were just discussing an energy machine that produced a trapazodial wave which fooled all the meters untill someone came up with an insturment that measured the resistance generated by one wave cycle. It all comes down to the same thing. If you want to prove that you producing surplus energy, first discharge a battery through a resistance heater in water, than recharge it, and redo the experiement powering the resistance heater by your motor generator as it discharges the battery. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 05:41:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA09416; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:40:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:40:24 -0700 Message-ID: <009501befded$43cae740$46441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: High Heat Flux Platinum Wire Water Heater Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:38:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"_YF_I3.0.zI2.u2Ftt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30252 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW, A 10.00 cm long, 14 Gauge (0.1628 cm dia) Pt wire operated at ~22.5 volts and 45 amperes in D2O-K2CO3 or H2O-K2CO3 (~1 kw) will give a heat flux of ~200 watts/cm^2, with a delta T of ~ 55 deg C. Much less complicated than the Mizuno-Ohmori Glow Discharge Experiments. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 05:55:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13659; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:54:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:54:25 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:53:47 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA13643 Resent-Message-ID: <"OwhKa3.0.LL3.1GFtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30253 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT), Michael Schaffer wrote: [snip] >close on itself. It goes slowly downward, in a cycloid-like trajectory. To Why? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 08:22:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31046; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:21:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:21:23 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <03fc01befcb8$53564fa0$ad441d26 fjsparber> References: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:08:39 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"1bGb5.0.za7.oPHtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30254 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mitchell Jones >To: >Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 3:11 PM >Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater > >Mitchell Jones wrote: >> >> ***{My wife and I dug through a couple of stores, and finally found a >"Good >> Cook Immersion Heater," put out by Bradshaw International, item no. 16990. >> This is a 200 watt coffee cup heater made in China. I filled a 250 ml >> beaker to the 200 ml line with tap water, stuck in a lab quality mercury >> thermometer. After it stabilized, it read 28 deg. C. I then plugged in the >> heater and started a stopwatch. Result: the thermometer reading rose to 55 >> deg. C over an interval of about 4 minutes, and stabilized there, despite >> the fact that the water appeared to be boiling vigorously at that point. >> Surprised, I carefully lifted it out of the beaker. As I did so, I noticed >> that the reading spiked up very rapidly, then began falling when the bulb >> emerged from the water. Next I lowered the bulb back until it was just >> below the surface. Result: it stabilized at about 92 deg. C, as the water >> continued to boil vigorously. Then I slowly lowered the bulb back to the >> bottom of the beaker. Result: the temperature dropped back to 55 deg. C >> with the bulb on the bottom. Conclusion: since the hot water is lighter >> than the cool water, it rises to the top, where evaporation is sufficient >> to hold the temperature just below boiling. As you approach the bottom, >the >> water gets colder, due to the tendency of the colder water to sink. Bottom >> line: as I guessed in my earlier post, the only place in the solution >where >> the water is boiling is in the layer that is in contact with the heating >> element. Thus the average temperature of the solution is *far* below >> boiling, and that accounts for your apparent OU effect. --Mitchell >Jones}*** > >Interesting,nice going, thanks. The best test would be stirring as Jed >suggested >and using a Dewar. Mizuno and Ohmori are set up to do this using a data >logger >and their computer programs to see if there is an exotherm spike in there. > >Don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. :-) > >Regards, Frederick ***{I decided to do one more run just to see what the COP would be if I took measures to control the heat loss and evaporation, and monitored the temperature from the bottom layer of the water. What I did was put two medium sized styrofoam cups one inside the other, pour in 200 ml of water, attach the coffee cup heater, pour a two inch thick layer of styrofoam "peanuts" (packing material) on top, and insert one of my mercury lab thermometers with the bulb at the bottom of the vessel. Result: it took 6 min 24 sec for the (bottom) temperature to rise from 28.4 deg. C to 99 deg C (boiling at this altitude). Assuming the specs on the coffee cup heater are valid, input power was 200 watts or 200 joules/sec, and so for energy input we have E-in = (384 sec)(200 j/sec) = 76,800 joules. On the other hand, E-out = (200 ml)(99-28.4 deg C)(1 cal/ml/deg. C)(4.185 j/cal) = 59,092 joules. For the coefficient of performance (C.O.P.), we have: 59,092/76,800 = .769 Most of the missing heat was carried away by the steam that was emitted during the several minutes when the top layer of the water was at 99 degrees and the bottom layer was not. --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 08:22:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31083; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:21:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:21:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37DB451D.3AD296C8 ihug.co.nz> References: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:15:04 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"P1yBx.0.bb7.wPHtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30255 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I don't know if this is a totally boring already known fact, but water >with lots >of detergent in it heated in a microwave hardly boiled, it can get very >very hot, >then you put anything in it, it virtually explodes and boils as it can be well >above boiling yet totally still, the detergent makes the bubbles larger so the >end result is rather odd. > >If you try it, just be careful or you will end up with a scorched face full of >water and detergent. ***{This is certainly not a fact that was known by me. What type of detergent are you talking about? (Powder or liquid, brand name and type.) Also, when you talk about putting something in it, what exactly do you mean? If, for example, I attempt to insert a mercury thermometer to check the temperature after taking the mixture out of my microwave, will that trigger the explosive reaction you are talking about? Or are you talking about adding more water, or perhaps some solute (e.g., salt)? Please elaborate. --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >John Berry [snip] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 08:52:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09707; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:51:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:51:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002101befe00$3c334280$08627dc7 computer> From: "Ed Wall" To: References: <008301befdb6$9ce23c20$46441d26 fjsparber> Subject: Re: Sub-Critical Self-Sustaining D2O-H2O- K2CO3 Capsules Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:54:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Resent-Message-ID: <"gvyAQ3.0.bN2.8sHtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30256 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: So, Fred, did you try this yet? Ed Wall > Capsules made from capped 1/8 inch Pipe and partially filled with > D2O-K2CO3 or H2O-K2CO3, can be heated in an oven to > temperatures up to 705 F and pressures up to ~3,200 Psig. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 09:09:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16864; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:08:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:08:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD2338.57AF ca-ois.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:15:53 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <4.1.19990912113319.009f56f0@pop3.oro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HBdD21.0.P74.X5Itt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30257 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ross Tessien wrote: > > Simple: A time variable delta V at frequency 100 mHz of 9.9 volts. > Wavelength on the order of 3 million km so impedance control in your wires > doesn't matter unless you build a transmission line around 3 million km > long, ??? 3 million km wl? That is a ten second long period. How does that happen for a repetition rate of 100 mhz? Where can I read up on the details of this sort of frequency downconversion process factor of 1 billion -> one? If I could do that I'd be able downconvert light wl's scope bandwidth frequencies. Are you sure you didn't just misplace the decimal point a few places? Thanks for your help but now I'm really confused... Jim From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 09:12:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA18351; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:12:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:12:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990913121551.01df1850 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:15:51 -0700 To: Scott Little From: Quinney Subject: Electron Spiral Toroid Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990912163622.0098b340 mail.eden.com> References: <4.1.19990912095542.009f68d0 pop3.oro.net> <3.0.5.32.19990912080410.0097d100 mail.eden.com> <4.1.19990911155718.00a0e850 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mo7m42.0.ZU4.M9Itt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30258 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I spoke with Clint Seward of Electron Power Systems this morning. He verified my hypothesis that the EST was basically a natural phenomena (similar to ball lightning) and that other methods could be used for it's initiation or production. [i.e: Koloc; Paul M., 1991 Patent # US 5041760, "Method and apparatus for generating and utilizing a compound plasma configuration"] He also agreed with me that the other 3 patents were the most valuable. We briefly spoke of the possibility of using only standing microwaves *without* even the electric arc. He also did not disagree with me that pulse technology could be used for the plasmoid's creation. He mentioned that 5 years was spent in the evaluation of the EST by a top MIT plasma physicist-- (Chen, C.) and that an 80 page technical verification report (March, 1999) will be made available to any qualified scientist on request. (That would probably include almost all of the 'regulars' on Vortex.) When I requested information about the experimental evidence, he told me that this was also available, but only after a non disclosure agreement was signed. What I found most positive during my conversation with him was my impression-- that even though he has been involved with this for over 10 years, he still seemed excited about it. Regards, Colin Quinney From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 09:58:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06207; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:57:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:57:55 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990913095604.009ffd00 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:57:37 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset In-Reply-To: <37DD2338.57AF ca-ois.com> References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <4.1.19990912113319.009f56f0 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wm3kb3.0.tW1.IqItt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30259 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:15 AM 9/13/99 -0700, you wrote: >Ross Tessien wrote: >> >> Simple: A time variable delta V at frequency 100 mHz of 9.9 volts. >> Wavelength on the order of 3 million km so impedance control in your wires >> doesn't matter unless you build a transmission line around 3 million km >> long, > >??? 3 million km wl? That is a ten second long period. How does that >happen for a repetition rate of 100 mhz? Because a mHz is a milli hertz, and 100 of them have a 10 second period. Now, if the original author (you?) meant mega hertz, then it would be Mhz and the entire comment set I made would be different as that has a very short wavelength. rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:13:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13119; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:10:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:10:33 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990913100418.009914c0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:10:17 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mlXmU.0.vC3.90Jtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30260 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK, I get it now. I thought someone said that they would spiral around the wire, which was as far as I went with it. I didn't go further out to check out the force vector as they approached horizontal to the right.......mistake on my part. That would be a perfect example of how dumb mistakes are made by CF opponents because they don't put the time into analyzing the thing all the way through. Just like this thing seems like a bogus device to me, and so I only invested a small amount of effort. I stand corrected on the trajector issue for a single electron. To drive a plasma like that you would need some barrier for the plasma to go around or else it would eventually spread out and electrons heading up following one trajectory would smack into electrons heading down along the same line, but following a different "circular" path. Hence, the plasma would tend to lose organization via randomization. And if you put something in the middle for the plasma to circle around, then that object would absorb some energy. Bottom line, I now understand that you didn't mean that the plasma would circle around the wire, but the thing still makes no thermodynamic sense and I would expect that when the losses of the system were accurately accounted for that the thing won't be making any energy, let alone staying hot indefinitely (two very different accomplishments). rt At 09:15 PM 9/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >Scott Little wrote: > >>Right, so they'll curve like this: >> >> >> >> wire >> ^ .> >> | . >> | . >> |<---------- 10 cm ----------->. >> _______________________________________ >> ^^^^ table top ^^^^ >> >> ...and since the B is everywhere into the screen, they'll continue to curve >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:13:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13382; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:11:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:11:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990913121047.01081ff8 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:10:47 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZXJyN1.0.0H3.01Jtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30261 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:15 PM 9/12/99 -0700, Michael Schaffer wrote: >* Good work, Scott, except right at the end. The electron trajectory does not >close on itself. It goes slowly downward, in a cycloid-like trajectory. To >the best of my ascii drawing ability, > > wire > ^ . . > | . . > | . . . . > |<---------- 10 cm ----------->^. . . > ____________________________________ . . > ^^^^ table top ^^^^ . . . > <.. . > . > <.. Thanks, Michael! I knew the path wouldn't be circular...I just didn't realize it would "walk" along the wire. Getting back to the reason we started this discussion, I certainly wish we could understand why Seward...and some plasma physicists at MIT...think the Electron Spiral Toroid could be a stable structure. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 10:23:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19840; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:22:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:22:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002101befe00$3c334280$08627dc7 computer> References: <008301befdb6$9ce23c20$46441d26 fjsparber> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:08:10 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Sub-Critical Self-Sustaining D2O-H2O- K2CO3 Capsules Resent-Message-ID: <"aasnA3.0.sr4.2BJtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30262 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >So, Fred, did you try this yet? ***{What would be the rationale behind this? The only experiment of which I am aware that resembles Fred's idea would be the Case type of cell. However, as I noted several days ago, the Case cells use D2 in the experimental and H2 in the control, rather than D2O and H2O, respectively. Has somebody claimed OU results from a Case type setup, when using D2O and H2O? --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Ed Wall > > >> Capsules made from capped 1/8 inch Pipe and partially filled with >> D2O-K2CO3 or H2O-K2CO3, can be heated in an oven to >> temperatures up to 705 F and pressures up to ~3,200 Psig. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 11:05:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06652; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:03:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:03:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:03:25 -1000 Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909131403400.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"hYtJd3.0.rd1.snJtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30263 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ross - > Because a mHz is a milli hertz, and 100 of them have a 10 second period. As one who specializes in being confused about units, that line certainly put a twisted smile on my face. You're saying a millihertz is a period of a tenth of a second? I thought "milli" meant a thousand, or perhaps a thousandth, of something. Millisecond, millenium...that sort of thing. Aren't tens decades? Deca or deci - whatevers? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 11:29:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16681; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:27:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:27:28 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990913112529.009fb280 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:27:00 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset In-Reply-To: <199909131403400.SM00137 [192.168.0.2]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"uj5ya.0.U44.F8Ktt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30264 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A milli hertz is a thousandth of a hertz. Meaning, one thousandth of a cycle per second. The article said the frequency was 100 mHz, or one hundred milli hertz. Which is to say: 0.100 cycles per second or 0.100 Hz. Which is of course, one cycle per tenth of a second and ergo a 10 second period. rt At 08:03 AM 9/13/99 -1000, you wrote: >Ross - > >> Because a mHz is a milli hertz, and 100 of them have a 10 second period. > >As one who specializes in being confused about units, that line certainly >put a twisted smile on my face. > >You're saying a millihertz is a period of a tenth of a second? I thought >"milli" meant a thousand, or perhaps a thousandth, of something. >Millisecond, millenium...that sort of thing. Aren't tens decades? Deca or >deci - whatevers? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 16:27:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA25556; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:22:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:22:44 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:22:11 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> <3.0.1.32.19990913121047.01081ff8@mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990913121047.01081ff8 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA25540 Resent-Message-ID: <"eLt6X.0.EF6.4TOtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30265 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:10:47 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >Getting back to the reason we started this discussion, I certainly wish we >could understand why Seward...and some plasma physicists at MIT...think the >Electron Spiral Toroid could be a stable structure. [snip] Hi Scott, I suspect that you may find that if you make the initial assumption that the electrons in the wire, and the electrons that are "squirted" into the field travel in the same direction, rather than opposite directions, then maybe the field reversal that you are concerned about doesn't need to happen. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 18:26:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09009; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:21:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:21:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:26:02 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0UlET2.0.hC2.XCQtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30266 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Folks, Some notes on EST: 1] You may not NEED to "squirt" electrons. It is possible, if the field is set up nearly correctly, you can just blast a medium sized, general, crude arc or spark.... and events will take care... this is what happen with a lot of liquid and flowing things. 2] Someone seems to think you might need to "reverse" some part of the field, or a field. Why??? Why not just employ a SECOND field ... one in the correct direction, maybe as an electromagnet... nd turn it on or bring it up as required... and leave the original field alone... or turn it off, or down. Jook at the design of vacuum tudes... there are all KINDS or neat, cool things used to make electrons "drive about the park" as the experimenter wanted. Bottom line.... one is not REQUIRED to make things hard, or what "appears" to be "sensible"! It could be Seward or one of his associates, or something he witnessed at another person's location was the key. Or a random set up, arc, event or accident started things off. Many useful instruments and processes, including a number of one I have sold, have started out with some event ... "GzzBRRRR DkkkkgrnnnnnBuuuuNNMMMM" And then I say to myself, usuallly, or to others present ... Hey! Cool! Loo ak that!!! J On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:10:47 -0500, Scott Little wrote: > [snip] > >Getting back to the reason we started this discussion, I certainly wish we > >could understand why Seward...and some plasma physicists at MIT...think the > >Electron Spiral Toroid could be a stable structure. > [snip] > Hi Scott, > > I suspect that you may find that if you make the initial assumption that > the electrons in the wire, and the electrons that are "squirted" into > the field travel in the same direction, rather than opposite directions, > then maybe the field reversal that you are concerned about doesn't need > to happen. > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 18:32:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12524; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:32:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:32:02 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:31:29 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <37DA603B.74F7@ca-ois.com> <37DBE2EF.4E9D@ca-ois.com> In-Reply-To: <37DBE2EF.4E9D ca-ois.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA12508 Resent-Message-ID: <"MUnsR.0.c33.IMQtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30267 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:29:19 -0700, Jim Ostrowski wrote: [snip] >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> Now why can't a quantum of light comprise a wave train? >> (i.e. a specific number of waves, with a beginning and an end). > >I think that's a very good question! > >When I recently started looking into this I asked myself the same thing >more or less. > >IOW... > >How many cycles of an em radiation comprise a "photon"? If energy values >must be included in the calculation as in Planck's formula*, how is this >calculation performed so that you know when you have a "1 photon" of em >radiation coming out of your rf signal >generator? > >Say I have an rf generator putting out 100 mhz sine wave at 10 v p-p >amplitude into 1 k resistor. How many cycles of the 100 mhz must the >generator produce in order to make 1 photon? > [snip] >Anyway proceeding with Planck's formula: > > E of our RF Photon would = > 100 mhz * 6.63 * 10E-34 = > 6.63 * 10E-26 Joules per second. No, actually this is in Joules (not "per second"). I.e. 6.63E-26 Joules/ photon (assuming you meant MHz). > >Doing an energy calculation with Ohm's formulas: > > E = V^2/r > 10v^2 = 100 > 100/1000 = 10 Joules continuous. This is actually 0.1 joules / sec , otherwise known as 0.1 watts (100/1000 = 0.1, not 10). > >Dividing 10 joules continuous by 6.63 * 10E-26 Joules per second yields= > > 1.508E+26 photons per second at 100 mhz into a 1k resistor at 10 acv, >according to the calculator that comes with Windows. This should be 0.1 watts / (6.63E-26 Joules/photon) = 1.5E24 photons/sec. > >How can that be? There are way more photons than there are cycles per >second in this arrangement. How do you get 1 photon of radiation at 100 >mhz? Hmmmm... apparently in this case a photon is less than 1 cycle :). [snip] In reality I suspect that neither model is correct. One is the leg, and the other is the trunk ;). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 18:47:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA18027; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:46:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:46:34 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:45:57 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA17995 Resent-Message-ID: <"2O60l.0.VP4.wZQtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30268 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:26:02 -0400 (EDT), John Schnurer wrote: [snip] > Some notes on EST: > > 1] You may not NEED to "squirt" electrons. It is possible, if the >field is set up nearly correctly, you can just blast a medium sized, >general, crude arc or spark.... and events will take care... this is what >happen with a lot of liquid and flowing things. Agreed. > 2] Someone seems to think you might need to "reverse" some >part of the field, or a field. > Why??? Why not just employ a SECOND field ... one in the correct >direction, maybe as an electromagnet... nd turn it on or bring it up as >required... and leave the original field alone... or turn it off, or down. No. This was not intended as practical advice for construction of a real object, but rather as a counter argument in part of a theoretical discussion. I was trying to make the point that the only reason Scott was running into a theoretical problem in his analysis (which led him to incorrectly conclude that the concept wouldn't work), was because one of his initial assumptions was inappropriate. I.e. he started off with the electrons in the wire and the "squirted" electrons going in opposite directions, rather than in the same direction. > > Jook at the design of vacuum tudes... there are all KINDS or neat, >cool things used to make electrons "drive about the park" as the >experimenter wanted. > Bottom line.... one is not REQUIRED to make things hard, or >what "appears" to be "sensible"! Granted, but this is the next step in the process, after one has concluded that the device might theoretically function. Then one needs to start looking for ways around the inevitable problems. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 20:08:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09942; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:07:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:07:19 -0700 Message-ID: <37DDBD31.3D5C ca-ois.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:12:49 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <4.1.19990912113319.009f56f0 pop3.oro.net> <4.1.19990913095604.009ffd00@pop3.oro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cVZhj1.0.GR2.dlRtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30269 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ross Tessien wrote: > > > >??? 3 million km wl? That is a ten second long period. How does that > >happen for a repetition rate of 100 mhz? > > Because a mHz is a milli hertz, and 100 of them have a 10 second period. Ah! I stand corrected. I meant Mega-hertz. Millihertz comes up in my conversations so infrequently (like = never) that no-one besides you has ever caught my often repeated error. > > Now, if the original author (you?) meant mega hertz, then it would be Mhz > and the entire comment set I made would be different as that has a very > short wavelength. Ok. I am concerned about a + dc sinusoidal wave launched into the free air or free space path and intercepted by an antenna several wavelengths away. Now, when the energy hits the receiving antenna, does it set up an oscillation in the recieving antenna that crosses zero and goes negative with respect to the receiving antenna's ground, ar does it stay positive like it does at the transmit end, or is it not detected at all, or what? The point of this is could the diode detector in say an AM radio be elininated if the transmitter pumped sinusoidal dc... Assume transmitter and reciever share an earth ground at zero potential volts. Thank you for bearing with me. Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 21:07:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA30749; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:05:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:05:57 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914040524.13845.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [128.174.36.219] From: "e lewis" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: i have a question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:05:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"iKl0p.0.NW7.acStt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30270 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is there a substance that when stimulated by any common radioactivity, produces electricity? I am asking this because some one asked me about this idea. Ed ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 21:07:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA31119; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:06:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:06:19 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914040546.94540.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [128.174.36.219] From: "e lewis" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: what when stimulated by electricity produces electricity? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:05:46 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"XPokj2.0.9c7.xcStt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30271 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is there a substance that when stimulated by any common radioactivity, produces electricity? I am asking this because some one asked me about this idea. Ed ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 21:12:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA02157; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:11:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:11:36 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: i have a question Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:11:01 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19990914040524.13845.qmail hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990914040524.13845.qmail hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id VAA02116 Resent-Message-ID: <"5Svsr.0.YX.shStt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30272 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:05:24 PDT, e lewis wrote: > >Is there a substance that when stimulated by any common radioactivity, >produces electricity? I am asking this because some one asked me about this >idea. I believe that solar cells will do this. There is also a whole raft of inventions based around this concept on the IBM patent server. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 21:32:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA03396; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990913224136.0098c8a0 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:41:36 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990913121047.01081ff8 mail.eden.com> <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail web120.yahoomail.com> <3.0.1.32.19990913121047.01081ff8 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6OArF3.0.sq.FzStt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30273 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:22 AM 9/14/99 +1000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >I suspect that you may find that if you make the initial assumption that >the electrons in the wire, and the electrons that are "squirted" into >the field travel in the same direction, rather than opposite directions, >then maybe the field reversal that you are concerned about doesn't need >to happen. Without going into another finger-wrestling match, I can present a simple argument why there always will be a field reversal when starting up one of these things: Assume you have an existing magnetic field that is going to make your electrons start spiraling around poloidally. The very fact that the electrons circulate in response to this existing field, guarantees that the field generated by the circulation of these same electrons will be in the opposite direction to the initial field. Think of the electron circulation as an eddy current. Eddy currents always circulate in a manner to create a field that opposes the field that stimulated them. The reversal occurs because it takes a field in one direction to form a spiraling toroid but, once the forming field is removed...and Seward says that it CAN be removed..., the completed toroid will necessarily have a field in the opposite direction. Maybe that's OK...it just sounds unstable. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 21:43:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA15331; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:43:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:43:10 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990913213823.00989900 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:42:53 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset In-Reply-To: <37DDBD31.3D5C ca-ois.com> References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <4.1.19990912113319.009f56f0 pop3.oro.net> <4.1.19990913095604.009ffd00 pop3.oro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6BDqw.0.Ol3.T9Ttt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30274 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:12 PM 9/13/99 -0700, you wrote: >Ross Tessien wrote: >> >> >> >??? 3 million km wl? That is a ten second long period. How does that >> >happen for a repetition rate of 100 mhz? >> >> Because a mHz is a milli hertz, and 100 of them have a 10 second period. > >Ah! I stand corrected. I meant Mega-hertz. Millihertz comes up in my >conversations so infrequently (like = never) that no-one besides you has >ever caught my often repeated error. I also work with microHz with solar oscillation periods, so.............. > >> >> Now, if the original author (you?) meant mega hertz, then it would be Mhz >> and the entire comment set I made would be different as that has a very >> short wavelength. > >Ok. I am concerned about a + dc sinusoidal wave launched into the free >air or free space path and intercepted by an antenna several wavelengths >away. Now, when the energy hits the receiving antenna, does it set up >an oscillation in the recieving antenna that crosses zero and goes >negative with respect to the receiving antenna's ground, ar does it stay >positive like it does at the transmit end, or is it not detected at all, >or what? It oscillates above and below the nominal voltage established at the antenna. The incident wave energy just sets up the oscillation, and the receiving electronics can establish that the oscillation is above and below nominal voltage X. but X is determined in relation to some other **reference**. It is like KE in that regard. you must select what you are measuring in reference to in order to say what the voltage is. So if you select earth ground in the vicinity of your antenna, then there it is. If you alter the nominal voltage of the antenna, then it will oscillate above and below the offset voltage and remain above earth ground if you select a nominal that is above the variation. ie, the incident EM just causes a rise and fall to the ambient voltage level and has no intrinsic voltage reference of it's own. > >The point of this is could the diode detector in say an AM radio be >elininated if the transmitter pumped sinusoidal dc... No such thing as sinusoidal DC. That IS, AC. rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 21:58:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA19679; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:54:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:54:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:59:01 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Re: i have a question Radioactive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5TMg72.0.Pp4.CKTtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30275 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear E., Unless you and your friend have a well set up work area, the correct tools and safety equipment and license for it, I would not suggest getting anywhere near radioactive material. Far too many people, and especially some who post to vortex treat radioactivity far too lightly. It is sort of like persons who drive a car and have NEVER had even a close call, nor has anyone close to them. Then there is the accident that kills and cripples.... and, all of a sudden, but much too late, there is the respect. You have no IDEA the personal shock and horror you get, like being in an elevator with the cables cut, when you notice a piece of hot stuff goes a "little bit missing" ... like about the size of a grain of salt... and, until the checks are made you KNOW it could be you, or someone else, looking forward to a certain slow and painfull death.... and rapeating over and over and over agaon, out loud and to your self "how could I???" J On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:05:24 PDT, e lewis wrote: > > > > >Is there a substance that when stimulated by any common radioactivity, > >produces electricity? I am asking this because some one asked me about this > >idea. > I believe that solar cells will do this. There is also a whole raft of > inventions based around this concept on the IBM patent server. > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 22:13:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA24753; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:10:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:10:30 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990913220816.00a00ac0 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:10:15 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: DU Source? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iD89C.0.h26.5ZTtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30276 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone know a source for depleted uranium metal? Got any idea of cost? restrictions? ???????? what I don't know about what I don't know about buying a small piece, say, an inch cubed or something like that volume in whatever shape? rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 22:52:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA04221; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:49:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:49:33 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914055120.8863.rocketmail web118.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:51:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"cDTjg2.0.t11.i7Utt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30277 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >Michael Schaffer wrote: >[snip] >>close on itself. It goes slowly downward, in a cycloid-like trajectory. To > > Why? The electron trajectory is bent more strongly in the high field closer to the wire than in the weaker field farther away. Therefore, the trajectory does NOT close on itself. Knowing this, look again at my ascii sketch, and you will agree that the electron drifts slowly parallel to the wire in addition to making (near) circles. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 23:10:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12438; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:10:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914061152.10993.rocketmail web118.yahoomail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:11:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Yxo002.0.C23.xQUtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30278 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Ostrowski wrote: > Ok. I am concerned about a + dc sinusoidal wave launched into the free > air or free space path and intercepted by an antenna several wavelengths > away. Now, when the energy hits the receiving antenna, does it set up > an oscillation in the recieving antenna that crosses zero and goes > negative with respect to the receiving antenna's ground, ar does it stay > positive like it does at the transmit end, or is it not detected at all, > or what? There is no dc on the receiving antenna, just ac. The dc on the transmitting antenna has no effect (after the transient EM wavefront that propagates out from the tansmitting antenna when the dc is first applied). === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 23:15:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA13658; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:15:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:15:14 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:14:40 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <=ObdN8qf6UFAMHefFzWk=Bjw3rx= 4ax.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990913121047.01081ff8 mail.eden.com> <19990913041558.4391.rocketmail@web120.yahoomail.com> <3.0.1.32.19990913121047.01081ff8@mail.eden.com> <3.0.5.32.19990913224136.0098c8a0@mail.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990913224136.0098c8a0 mail.eden.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA13641 Resent-Message-ID: <"3fivm3.0.KL3.nVUtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30279 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:41:36 -0500, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >Without going into another finger-wrestling match, I can present a simple >argument why there always will be a field reversal when starting up one of >these things: > >Assume you have an existing magnetic field that is going to make your >electrons start spiraling around poloidally. The very fact that the >electrons circulate in response to this existing field, guarantees that the >field generated by the circulation of these same electrons will be in the >opposite direction to the initial field. Think of the electron circulation >as an eddy current. Eddy currents always circulate in a manner to create a >field that opposes the field that stimulated them. [snip] Sorry, you are correct. I did the finger wrestling match myself, and the direction of rotation remains the same in both cases. The only difference being the position of the figure formed relative to the injection point. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 13 23:32:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA18851; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:31:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:31:52 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Scott: Re: Electron Spiral Toroid - BBGB Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:31:18 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19990914055120.8863.rocketmail web118.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990914055120.8863.rocketmail web118.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA18831 Resent-Message-ID: <"dFo9w3.0.Tc4.OlUtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30280 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:51:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael Schaffer wrote: [snip] >> Why? > >The electron trajectory is bent more strongly in the high field closer to the >wire than in the weaker field farther away. Therefore, the trajectory does >NOT close on itself. Knowing this, look again at my ascii sketch, and you >will agree that the electron drifts slowly parallel to the wire in addition >to making (near) circles. [snip] I can sort of understand where you are coming from, on the other hand I'm having difficulty understanding why it should be asymmetrical about the plane perpendicular to the wire. IOW I could equally well accept Scott's "egg shape". Not that it really matters either way. If the original wire is replaced with a large superconducting ring, then migration wouldn't be a problem, as the "toroid" would just end up going around the loop, like a bead sliding on a necklace. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 01:14:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA03515; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:06:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:06:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <37DB451D.3AD296C8 ihug.co.nz> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:04:44 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"KQk613.0.rs.N8Wtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30281 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Being a stubborn, perfectionistic sort, I was frustrated by my inability, in the last run, to account for more of the heat output of the "OU coffee cup heater." The problem was that the styrofoam "peanuts" had absorbed a lot of water, much to my surprise, and thus I had no way to know how much steam had been given off, and so I was not in a position to take the heat of vaporization into account. Until I could do that, I did not feel that I could have solid grounds for dismissing Fred Sparber's original suggestion that something odd might be going on in these gadgets. The reason: when water goes to steam at 99 deg. C, it absorbs 539.3 cal/ml. Since the water level in the 2nd run had dropped almost 30 ml, the question of how much went off as steam and how much was absorbed into the peanuts assumed crucial importance. (If, for example, it all went off as steam, that would add about 30(539.3)(4.185) = 67709 joules to P-out, and would push the COP hugely over unity.) If I had anticipated that the "peanuts" would absorb water, I would simply have weighed them before and after the run, so that I could calculate the amount of water absorbed. That's what I did this time. Before: The "peanuts" weighed 1.1 gm. The amount of water used was 200 ml again. Starting temperature was 28.4 deg. C again. After 362 seconds had elapsed: The "peanuts" weighed 18.9 gms. The amount of water was down to 173 ml in the styrofoam cups. The temperature of the water, measured at the bottom, was 99 deg. C. Calculations: E-in = (200 j/sec)(362 sec) = 74,200 joules E-out = [(200 ml)(1 cal/ml/deg. C)(99-28.4 deg. C) + (200 - 173 - (18.9 - 1.1))(539.3 cal/ml)](4.185 j/cal) = [14,120 cal + 4962 cal](4.185 j/cal) = 18082(4.185) = 79856 joules C.O.P. = 79856/74200 = 1.08 So, do we have an "over unity coffee cup heater"? Either that, or the gadget is pulling a bit more power than the specs indicate. How much more? Simple: (P-in)(362 sec) = 79856 joules, and so P-in = 79856/362 = 221 watts, rather than the 200 watts claimed by the manufacturer. Is that plausible? Of course. Thus at this point we have, as expected, no basis for thinking that anything anomalous is going on in the realm of coffee cup heaters. :-) Points worth noting: (1) When I treated all of the water in the peanuts as if it were absorbed in liquid form, I was being conservative. Some of that water undoubtedly came from steam that recondensed. Thus a true C.O.P would be a bit higher, or else the true value of P-in would be a bit higher. (2) There was also a small amount of unmeasured heat that passed into the styrofoam walls of the cups, and a larger amount stored in the coffee cup heater itself. (3) In this last run, I used a pair of scissors to chop the styrofoam "peanuts" into tiny pieces before pouring them onto the surface of the water, in order to get a tighter fit and minimize vaporization. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 01:56:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA11389; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:56:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:56:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:55:38 -0400 From: Susan J Seddon Subject: DU Source? Sender: Susan J Seddon To: "INTERNET:vortex-l eskimo.com" Message-ID: <199909140455_MC2-84B5-DAE2 compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id BAA11369 Resent-Message-ID: <"wPiBH3.0.qn2.ZsWtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30282 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ross You can pick it up off the ground anywhere round Kosovo - Soo From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 03:22:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA20985; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:22:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:22:02 -0700 Message-ID: <004d01befea3$19ef7380$0f441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <37DB451D.3AD296C8 ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:19:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"2_HQc3.0.p75.A7Ytt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30283 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 1:04 AM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Good. The 200 watt rating is based on 120 volts and the optimum resistance of the heater unit. My wall-socket voltage was 117.7 and the resistance was 73.5 ohms resulting in 188 watts for the "200 watt" heater. Also the positive coefficient of resistance will make a very slight drop in heater power. I think the results merit a closer look at this experiment. Regards, Frederick Mitchell Jones wrote: > Being a stubborn, perfectionistic sort, I was frustrated by my inability, > in the last run, to account for more of the heat output of the "OU coffee > cup heater." The problem was that the styrofoam "peanuts" had absorbed a > lot of water, much to my surprise, and thus I had no way to know how much > steam had been given off, and so I was not in a position to take the heat > of vaporization into account. Until I could do that, I did not feel that I > could have solid grounds for dismissing Fred Sparber's original suggestion > that something odd might be going on in these gadgets. The reason: when > water goes to steam at 99 deg. C, it absorbs 539.3 cal/ml. Since the water > level in the 2nd run had dropped almost 30 ml, the question of how much > went off as steam and how much was absorbed into the peanuts assumed > crucial importance. (If, for example, it all went off as steam, that would > add about 30(539.3)(4.185) = 67709 joules to P-out, and would push the COP > hugely over unity.) If I had anticipated that the "peanuts" would absorb > water, I would simply have weighed them before and after the run, so that I > could calculate the amount of water absorbed. That's what I did this time. > > Before: > > The "peanuts" weighed 1.1 gm. The amount of water used was 200 ml again. > Starting temperature was 28.4 deg. C again. > > After 362 seconds had elapsed: > > The "peanuts" weighed 18.9 gms. The amount of water was down to 173 ml in > the styrofoam cups. The temperature of the water, measured at the bottom, > was 99 deg. C. > > Calculations: > > E-in = (200 j/sec)(362 sec) = 74,200 joules > > E-out = [(200 ml)(1 cal/ml/deg. C)(99-28.4 deg. C) + (200 - 173 - (18.9 - > 1.1))(539.3 cal/ml)](4.185 j/cal) = [14,120 cal + 4962 cal](4.185 j/cal) = > 18082(4.185) = 79856 joules > > C.O.P. = 79856/74200 = 1.08 > > So, do we have an "over unity coffee cup heater"? Either that, or the > gadget is pulling a bit more power than the specs indicate. How much more? > Simple: (P-in)(362 sec) = 79856 joules, and so P-in = 79856/362 = 221 > watts, rather than the 200 watts claimed by the manufacturer. Is that > plausible? Of course. Thus at this point we have, as expected, no basis for > thinking that anything anomalous is going on in the realm of coffee cup > heaters. :-) > > Points worth noting: > > (1) When I treated all of the water in the peanuts as if it were absorbed > in liquid form, I was being conservative. Some of that water undoubtedly > came from steam that recondensed. Thus a true C.O.P would be a bit higher, > or else the true value of P-in would be a bit higher. > > (2) There was also a small amount of unmeasured heat that passed into the > styrofoam walls of the cups, and a larger amount stored in the coffee cup > heater itself. > > (3) In this last run, I used a pair of scissors to chop the styrofoam > "peanuts" into tiny pieces before pouring them onto the surface of the > water, in order to get a tighter fit and minimize vaporization. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 04:15:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA27549; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:13:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:13:06 -0700 Message-ID: <005f01befeaa$38238560$0f441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:10:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"n1rpz2.0.Ik6.1tYtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30284 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A spring-loaded Nichrome wire (14 Ga. 0.005 ohms/cm) in a glass tube running at ~ 8.0 volts 125 amperes will develop a kilowatt over a 10.0 cm length of wire. This way the vapor will be contained in the tube, making for easier heat balance meaurement and allowing modest pressurization of the tube: | ___|___ | | \ | | | | / | | | | \ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |__ |__| | | | Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 04:34:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA31175; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:33:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:33:35 -0700 From: bpaddock csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: what when stimulated by electricity produces electricity? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:26:32 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock csonline.net Message-ID: References: <19990914040546.94540.qmail hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990914040546.94540.qmail hotmail.com> Lines: 31 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"LHmbw3.0.1d7.EAZtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30285 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Is there a substance that when stimulated by any common radioactivity, >produces electricity? I am asking this because some one asked me about this >idea. The Radioisotope Heater Unit (RHU) which consists of a thermoelectric thermopile made of plutonium dioxide (mostly plutonium-238), in a ceramic form of the material to minimize environmental problems. The heat from the RHU is converted to electricity with a thermoelectric converter made of Bismuth-Telluride. The thermoelectric converter charges LiTiS2 rechargeable AA cells. This combination has been dubbed "The Powerstick". http://jpltrs.jpl.nasa.gov/1995/95-0020.pdf http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/oss/osstech/sec14.htm http://www-b.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/rtg/rhu.htm You will be able to find more about this in the October Issue of http://www.circuitcellar.com/online under the Resource Page section. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.biogate.com/bpaddock/ Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Echofone, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. http://www.uCOS-II.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 05:41:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA11314; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:38:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:38:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37DE44C1.5D274C3 ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:51:13 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Last time I think I was ignored but... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VPc0r.0.im2.z6att" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30286 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote about this recently, but I don't think anyone seemed to read it. One way to get free energy is by separating the inductive and magnetic fields. For instance take the paramagnetic attractor that has a scrap of metal which is induced by a coil, but is attracted by the stronger magnetic field of the washer. The magnetic and inductive fields are clearly separate in this case, indeed it is not hard to separate these fields. Now this is a great opportunity to create a free energy device, There are many different versions that could be looked at. I have a few different ways to make this work, What do you think? John Berry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 05:47:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15313; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:47:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:47:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aT_YK1.0.Bl3.7Fatt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30287 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear MJ and Vo, Take you styro bbs and wrap in platic wrap to make "plug" and this will minimise absorption. Is anyone actually MEASURING power? usual spec for cheap cooking appliance might vary +/- 10 to 20 % ... and line voltage can range from 105 or 107 to 115 or 125 ACV. J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 06:08:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA20961; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:07:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:07:57 -0700 Message-ID: <007801befeba$4605a5e0$0f441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:05:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"IPcoF2.0.Q75.iYatt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30288 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: John Schnurer To: Cc: John Schnurer Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 5:51 AM Subject: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater John Schnurer wrote: > > Dear MJ and Vo, > > Take you styro bbs and wrap in plastic wrap to make "plug" and this > will minimise absorption. > > Is anyone actually MEASURING power? usual spec for cheap cooking > appliance might vary +/- 10 to 20 % ... and line voltage can range from > 105 or 107 to 115 or 125 ACV. Right on John. One needs to measure all variables carefully. This was a rough cut to see if the Mizuno-Ohmori OU results could be achieved using a more stable/predictable heat flux. Regards. Frederick > > J > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:02:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA03679; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:01:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:01:29 -0700 Message-ID: <37DE5753.271DBDD6 ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:10:27 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: DU Source? References: <4.1.19990913220816.00a00ac0@pop3.oro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CTPTh1.0.Pv.uKbtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30289 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept. 14, 1999 Vortex, Alfa Aesar (1-800-343-0660) sells Uranium powder or 'turnings' (99.7%) in minimum of ten gram weights (about $164.00) for powder, 25 grams for $115.00 on 'turnings'. Restrictions --- no UPS shipping. East coast time 8-6pm. -ak- Ross Tessien wrote: > Anyone know a source for depleted uranium metal? Got any idea of cost? > restrictions? ???????? what I don't know about what I don't know about > buying a small piece, say, an inch cubed or something like that volume in > whatever shape? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:15:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07753; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:14:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:14:59 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914142135.22628.qmail nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 14 Sep 99 10:21:35 EDT From: Horace To: VORTEX L Subject: Amin Cycle errors X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.0.77) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA07701 Resent-Message-ID: <"5slNL1.0.-u1.ZXbtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30290 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott, etc... I am corresponding with Amin privately and would appreciate details on errors that you have noticed in his equations (please list the .pdf filename and eq.#). I am interested in both the sign errors and conceptual errors so I can point them out to him. Upon my analysis of his work I also noticed that he completely disregards the work needed to spin-up the gas. I am speculating that Amin is under the impression that since the mass of the gas does not change the work needed to spin it up will be 100% regained when spinning it down. THIS IS WRONG ! Although the mass of the gas is the same the mass distribution is DIFFERENT for different values of compression (the Rc & Pc points per his nomenclature). This is analogical to a ballerina that spreads out her arms to slow down. When the gas is compressed or decompressed it alters the gas mass distribution in the spinning cylinder and this will cause the cylinder to speed up or slow down without mass difference (just like the ballerina). These differences in the spin speed caused by compression are as significant as the other phenomena in Amin Cycle and SHOULD NOT BE conveniently ignored since they REQUIRE WORK to compensate for. Has anybody worked out the formula for Rc as a function of Pc ? Pc = average pressure in the spinning cylinder Rc = Radius from the center of the centrifuge at which the Pc occurs Note: For constant angular velocity the Rc point doesn't move if the Pc is constant. Just the pressure and mass distribution change with different spin rates, without affecting the average pressure and total gas mass. Any help with Rc=Pc(?) would be appreciated. Intelligent comments as well :) Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:24:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA10848; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:23:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:23:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990914100559.007acba0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:05:59 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC Computers that read the mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Q5JJ7.0.Of2.cfbtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30291 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The other day I mentioned recent experiments in which probes have been inserted in the brains of rats. Events that occur in the brain while the rat is going through procedure to acquire food are measured, and the machine is programmed to allow the rat to trigger the food vending machine by changing its mental state. I do not recall where I read that. Here is a similar article in the Atlanta Journal, Sunday Sept. 12, 1999, "Brain Power," by Matthew Aldag. I speculated that someday this technology might be useful for severely disabled people. It turns out the technique is already being applied at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Decatur, Georgia. The patient is a 53 year old male who suffered from a stroke and was left speechless by a tracheotomy. In March 1998, researchers from Emory University implanted an electrode in the primary motor cortex. "The doctors . . . inserted a substance that encouraged . . . brain cells to grow into the electrodes and establish a connection." The patient eventually learned to move the cursor of a computer simply by thinking about moving his arm. The patient can spell out as many three letters per minute. Another patient, aged 38, "came through great and seems to be very happy." Quote from article: "We are real pleased," says Melody Moore, assistant professor of computer information systems at Georgia state University . . . Moore envisions refining the system one day to allow users to manipulate the environment around them -- to turn off lights in her room, change television channels, adjust the heat or air conditioning -- all simply by thinking about making those things happen. Moore in her students also are working on software that would allow patience to serve the Internet, granting access to online books, shopping and electronic mail. "They might even be able to hold a job," Moore says. That seems obvious to me. According to the article, there are roughly one million people in the United States who are paralyzed and cannot speak. That is more than I would have expected. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:24:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA10876; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:23:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:23:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990914100803.007ad430 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:08:03 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater In-Reply-To: <007801befeba$4605a5e0$0f441d26 fjsparber> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"DeA-S1.0.gf2.efbtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30292 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You definitely need to stir the water before taking the temperature. Even with vigorous stirring with a magnetic stirrer, Mizuno's data shows fluctuations as high as 0.8 deg C, which I think are caused by insufficiently mixed fluid. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:25:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11212; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:24:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:24:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:20:35 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"V1s7j1.0.-k2.Fgbtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30293 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Dear MJ and Vo, > > Take you styro bbs and wrap in platic wrap to make "plug" and this >will minimise absorption. ***{Actually, the present method is working pretty well, though it is admittedly a pain to weigh the "peanuts" before and after. Any type of "plug" arrangement would tend to either result in a pressure build-up or else in venting of steam down the path of least resistance--i.e., at one location--thereby increasing vaporization. By having a loosely floating, deep layer of styrofoam fragments, my goal was to reduce the surface area available for evaporation without actually constraining the flow of steam at any point. That way, I could get the even insulating effect I needed at the surface, in order to force the temperature at the bottom to rise to boiling. (The problem, which I discovered on the first run, had been that only the water around the surface of the heating element boiled, due to the cooling effects of steam vaporization at the surface.) What I seem to have arrived at is a fairly simple method for measuring input power without using a power meter. That's not a big revelation, of course, since calorimetry has been used for such purposes many times before. I am, however, surprised at how easy it is to do this with ordinary, inexpensive materials (assuming that you already own a platform balance and a lab quality mercury thermometer.) And the beneficial side effect is that, if the device being tested happens to be significantly "over unity," it will produce a deviation from specs that sticks out like a sore thumb. At that point, you can bring an actual power meter into the mix. Hmm. I wonder if my 60 watt light bulbs are "over unity"? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > > Is anyone actually MEASURING power? ***{Nah. That would be uncivilized. :-) --MJ}*** usual spec for cheap cooking >appliance might vary +/- 10 to 20 % ... and line voltage can range from >105 or 107 to 115 or 125 ACV. > > J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:41:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18793; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:40:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:40:38 -0700 Message-ID: <009501befec7$385cb7a0$0f441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"SepAc1.0.Yb4.bvbtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30294 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater I tried a thin layer of Wesson Oil on top of the water, and it does okay, and allows stirring, but, I don't have a good thermometer. Would a millimeter layer of SAE 10W-30 be better? :-) Regards, Frederick > > ***{Actually, the present method is working pretty well, though it is > admittedly a pain to weigh the "peanuts" before and after. Any type of > "plug" arrangement would tend to either result in a pressure build-up or > else in venting of steam down the path of least resistance--i.e., at one > location--thereby increasing vaporization. By having a loosely floating, > deep layer of styrofoam fragments, my goal was to reduce the surface area > available for evaporation without actually constraining the flow of steam > at any point. That way, I could get the even insulating effect I needed at > the surface, in order to force the temperature at the bottom to rise to > boiling. (The problem, which I discovered on the first run, had been that > only the water around the surface of the heating element boiled, due to the > cooling effects of steam vaporization at the surface.) What I seem to have > arrived at is a fairly simple method for measuring input power without > using a power meter. That's not a big revelation, of course, since > calorimetry has been used for such purposes many times before. I am, > however, surprised at how easy it is to do this with ordinary, inexpensive > materials (assuming that you already own a platform balance and a lab > quality mercury thermometer.) And the beneficial side effect is that, if > the device being tested happens to be significantly "over unity," it will > produce a deviation from specs that sticks out like a sore thumb. At that > point, you can bring an actual power meter into the mix. > > Hmm. I wonder if my 60 watt light bulbs are "over unity"? :-) > > --Mitchell Jones}*** > > > > > Is anyone actually MEASURING power? > > ***{Nah. That would be uncivilized. :-) --MJ}*** > > usual spec for cheap cooking > >appliance might vary +/- 10 to 20 % ... and line voltage can range from > >105 or 107 to 115 or 125 ACV. > > > > J > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:42:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA19476; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:41:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:41:56 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990914094118.01085b44 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:41:18 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, VORTEX L From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Amin Cycle errors In-Reply-To: <19990914142135.22628.qmail nwcst286.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jdzyf3.0.Em4.qwbtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30295 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:21 AM 9/14/99 EDT, Horace wrote: >I am corresponding with Amin privately and would appreciate details on errors >that you have noticed in his equations (please list the .pdf filename and >eq.#). I am interested in both the sign errors and conceptual errors so I can >point them out to him. In this document: http://www.entropysystems.com/downloads/Tests%20on%20Amin%20Cycle.pdf He presents a simple energy-level diagram showing 4 different energy levels corresponding to the 4 states of the engine in the Amin cycle. He's got arrows and labels on the delta-E's that correspond to each step in the Amin cycle. Below this diagram are a couple of sentences and about 9 simple equations relating the delta-E's. He starts out OK by stating that the sum of all the changes in energy around a complete cycle must equal to zero because we end up at the same energy level that we started at. But then it falls apart. As far as I can see, only two (3rd and 5th) of the remaining nine eqn's are correct!! numbering the eqns sequentially: eqn's 1 & 2 have sign errors...the minus signs should be plus signs. eqn 3 is correct eqn 4 is just plain wrong (conceptual error) eqn 5 is correct eqn 6 is wrong eqn 7 is wrong, there is no direct relationship between those 2 quantities eqn 8 is wrong, same problem eqn 9 is wrong >Upon my analysis of his work I also noticed that he completely disregards the >work needed to spin-up the gas. > >I am speculating that Amin is under the impression that since the mass of the >gas does not change the work needed to spin it up will be 100% regained when >spinning it down. THIS IS WRONG ! good point, the spin up effects a compression of the gas, which results in heating and subsequent heat xfer out of the gas. Thus some of the work that went into spinning it up is now heat...and cannot be completely recovered. >Has anybody worked out the formula for Rc as a function of Pc ? >Pc = average pressure in the spinning cylinder >Rc = Radius from the center of the centrifuge at which the Pc occurs I glanced at Amin's treatment of this and it looked correct. You just use the "barometric formula" P = Po(e^(-Mgz/RT)) and replace g with w^2*r and z with r, which needs to go from the OD towards the center, Po being the pressure at the OD. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 07:49:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21204; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:46:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:46:23 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914144615.15636.qmail nwcst313.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 14 Sep 99 10:46:15 EDT From: Horace To: FreeEnergy L Subject: 4-coil, 2-phase ring - Electron Blower X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.0.77) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA21164 Resent-Message-ID: <"sTA4V2.0.zA5.--btt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30296 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FE, A 4-coil, 2-phase ring, exactly as in 2-phase AC motor stators, should work as an electron blower (fan). The magnetic field is very much like that of a real rotating permanent magnet. Imagine such a magnet in the plane of your computer monitor. It can be shown that magnetic flux cuts electrons in such way that Lorentz force creates unidirectional electric lines through the plane of you computer monitor. That is, electrons are blown through as air molecules are blown through a circular fan blade. Do you agree with this ? Can such electron fan be used to blow electrically charged particles such as ionized air ? Horace ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 08:07:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA31749; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:06:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:06:11 -0700 Message-ID: <19990914150609.5057.qmail www0a.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 14 Sep 99 11:06:09 EDT From: Horace To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Re: Amin Cycle errors] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.0.77) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id IAA31732 Resent-Message-ID: <"RqHXx3.0._l7.ZHctt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30297 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, the pressure distribution inside the cylinder during the spin up does heat up part of the gas (and cools down the other part) ...but what I was trying to convey is that the piston going down and compressing the gas not only has temperature effect but Also causes the "ballerina effect" by distributing the gas' mass differently in the cylinder causing the spin rate to change. Energy in a spinning object (on one axis) is influenced by: - mass - angular speed - internal mass distribution As an example: 100lb spinning at 3600rpm can have less kinetic energy than 100lb spinning at 2400rpm. (100lb 3600rpm < 100lb @ 2400rpm) Horace P.S. Thanks for a hint on the Rc ;) Scott Little wrote: > good point, the spin up effects a compression of the gas, which results in > heating and subsequent heat xfer out of the gas. Thus some of the work > that went into spinning it up is now heat...and cannot be completely > recovered. > >>Horace wrote: > >Upon my analysis of his work I also noticed that he completely disregards the > >work needed to spin-up the gas. > > > >I am speculating that Amin is under the impression that since the mass of the > >gas does not change the work needed to spin it up will be 100% regained when > >spinning it down. THIS IS WRONG ! ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 08:31:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA07081; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:30:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:30:47 -0700 Message-ID: <00b501befece$359aad40$0f441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <009501befec7$385cb7a0$0f441d26@fjsparber> Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:27:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"F8zat3.0.Vk1.dectt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30298 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Mitchell Jones wrote: > Hmm. I wonder if my 60 watt light bulbs are "over unity"? :-) They might be if you fill them with water. :-) What I see is a common denominator with the F&P Cell cathode buubles, M&O Glow Discharge (Sound), Griggs&Huffman Pumps, Potapov Microcavition Device, and Sonoluminescence, and that is, at the Liquid-Gas-Solid interface, formed when boiling starts, accompanied by formation and collapse of microbubbles, as evidenced bythe "boiling sound", OU energy is released. Why and How, is a different question. Regards, Frederick > --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 08:39:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA09726; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:02 -0700 Message-ID: <37DE6D84.3348 ca-ois.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:45:09 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <4.1.19990912113319.009f56f0 pop3.oro.net> <4.1.19990913095604.009ffd00 pop3.oro.net> <4.1.19990913213823.00989900@pop3.oro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kK6TW1.0.tN2.Qlctt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30299 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ross Tessien wrote: > So if you > select earth ground in the vicinity of your antenna, then there it is. If > you alter the nominal voltage of the antenna, then it will oscillate above > and below the offset voltage and remain above earth ground if you select a > nominal that is above the variation. > > ie, the incident EM just causes a rise and fall to the ambient voltage > level and has no intrinsic voltage reference of it's own. > > > > >The point of this is could the diode detector in say an AM radio be > >elininated if the transmitter pumped sinusoidal dc... > > No such thing as sinusoidal DC. That IS, AC. Hmmmm...well, alternating current in a wire indicates that the electrons in the wire change direction. In a dc oscillation the current goes from a low current to higher and back to low again but does not change direction, that is the idea here. Michael Schaffer wrote: > There is no dc on the receiving antenna, just ac. The dc on the transmitting > antenna has no effect (after the transient EM wavefront that propagates out > from the tansmitting antenna when the dc is first applied). Ok so you are saying that even if we had two different systems of transmission, one where the current in the transmistting antenna never changes direction, and the other where the current changes direction all the time, that a recieving antenna would not be able to distinguish between the two differnt transmission modes... Do I understand correctly? Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 08:54:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA15225; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:53:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:53:42 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <009501befec7$385cb7a0$0f441d26 fjsparber> References: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:49:45 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"5HEYA.0.pj3.6-ctt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30300 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mitchell Jones >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:20 AM >Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater > >I tried a thin layer of Wesson Oil on top of the water, and it does okay, >and allows stirring, but, I don't have a good thermometer. ***{Capitol Scientific sells some great mercury lab thermometers, and the old-style platform balances as well. They are in Austin, Texas. You can get their phone number by dialing 1-512-555-1212 and asking for it. --MJ}*** > >Would a millimeter layer of SAE 10W-30 be better? :-) ***{A millimeter thick layer, in my judgment, would permit large amounts of steam to escape into the air above the heating element. Since the main purpose of using a layer of oil would be to inhibit the emission of steam, I think it would need to be much deeper than 1 mm. As a matter of interest, I had considered using a thick layer of Mobil One, but dropped the idea because, while it would suppress the formation of steam, it would also store heat. Thus you would merely be substituting a calculation of the amount of heat stored in the layer of Mobil One for the calculation of the heat carried away by the steam, and, in addition, you might still need the layer of "peanuts" on top, in order to eliminate the cooling effect--i.e., in order to force the layer of boiling water to propagate to the bottom of the container. Once the bottom layer is at boiling, the whole container will be at boiling, providing you do not use a stirrer. If you do use one, then the possibility arises that the bulb of your thermometer will be in a hot spot in the circulation pattern, and the average temperature of the solution will be below boiling, generating a false "over unity" reading. (I have suspected for some time that this was part of the problem with the Mizuno cell, by the way.) Another problem with using a layer of oil at the top is that it is hard to obtain specific heat data for such materials. Just about the only way to do it, short of measuring it yourself, is to write the manufacturer--which is too much of a pain in the neck, in my opinion. As for using ordinary 30 weight petroleum oil, there are lots of volatile impurities, some of which are miscible with water, and could alter the properties of the solution in unpredictable ways. (Mobil One, being a synthetic oil, is probably a pure substance.) --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Regards, Frederick [snip] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 09:04:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA19998; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:03:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:03:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:07:31 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer Reply-To: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: OFF TOPIC Computers that read the mind!! No Needles in the head! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990914100559.007acba0 pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Wd4aS1.0.Ou4.x6dtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30301 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo and Jed, Since 1987 there has been a system which acquired BAC, or Brain Actuated Control signals, from humans. See May, 1994 Discover Magazine article titled "Brain Powered" By Benett Daviss [sp?]. The method uses three scalp surface electrodes. Two electrodes are near the occipital cortex and are applied to the scalp. The scalp is cleaned in a small 1-1/2 inch patch, the hair is left in place and a white "goopy" calcium salts based electrode "cream" which looks quite like toothpaste is applied to the scalp. The electrodes are "mashed into" the paste. The whole mess is covered with a small bit of gauze. A third electrode is placed just behind and below the ear. The ear is an "electrically quiet" reference and the visual cortex electrodes are d1fferentially amplified in a signal train approximately as follows: DC coupled gain of 10 high pass filter ... or HPF gain of 10 low pass filter ... or LPF gain of 5 band reject or "notch filter", ... or NF, the NF is set at 50 Europe, or 60 cps USA gain of 10 LPF total LPF of 11 poles, six zeros plus 4 poles no zeros Final whole system gain ranges from 10,000 to 75,000 Av depending on subject and electrodes This then passes to a "really cool and twisted" signal processing which uses two lock in amplifiers and a rectangular to polar real time computational sub system. This exhibits no transport delay and is able to operate on differential "signal of interest" levels typical spanning from 500 nV to 4 or 5 micro V .... the 1/f noise corner of many amplifer systems is at 2.5 cps or higher which, in general, leaves one with a semiconductor noise in the 0.1 to 10 cps range of 0.7 to 2 microvolts... So we are RIGHT in the dirt... but the front end in this hot rod is about 150 to 200 nV in the 0.1 to 5 cps range. This is ALL Analog!! Employing a willful change in the Visually Evoked Cortical Response, or VER the BAC method has been used to control: 1] FES, or Functional Electrical Stimulation of the leg....also with surface electrodes giving an alternate path of signal from brain to leg for spine injury, 2] Control of an Aircraft motion simulator. This actually rolls as rapidly as an F-4 ... "Look Ma, no hands on sitck!" 3] Control while doing other tasks Most of the work has been done at Area B, WPAFB, Wright Patterson Air Force Base, USA. WPAFB Area A, was where the Balkan Peace Talks took place. I coined the term Brain Actuated Control, am first author on the seminal paper discussing the method, which I invented. I personally designed and built the system which has appeared on CNN, Good Morning America, Scientific American Frontiers and has been in over 30 magazines and news articles. The original system I built is still in place and operating at WPAFB. It was then and is now one of the most fun bits of work I have ever done. J On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Jed Rothwell wrote: > The other day I mentioned recent experiments in which probes have been > inserted in the brains of rats. Events that occur in the brain while the > rat is going through procedure to acquire food are measured, and the > machine is programmed to allow the rat to trigger the food vending machine > by changing its mental state. I do not recall where I read that. Here is a > similar article in the Atlanta Journal, Sunday Sept. 12, 1999, "Brain > Power," by Matthew Aldag. I speculated that someday this technology might > be useful for severely disabled people. It turns out the technique is > already being applied at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Decatur, > Georgia. The patient is a 53 year old male who suffered from a stroke and > was left speechless by a tracheotomy. In March 1998, researchers from Emory > University implanted an electrode in the primary motor cortex. "The doctors > . . . inserted a substance that encouraged . . . brain cells to grow into > the electrodes and establish a connection." The patient eventually learned > to move the cursor of a computer simply by thinking about moving his arm. > The patient can spell out as many three letters per minute. Another > patient, aged 38, "came through great and seems to be very happy." Quote > from article: > > > "We are real pleased," says Melody Moore, assistant professor of > computer information systems at Georgia state University . . . > Moore envisions refining the system one day to allow users to > manipulate the environment around them -- to turn off lights in > her room, change television channels, adjust the heat or air > conditioning -- all simply by thinking about making those things > happen. Moore in her students also are working on software that > would allow patience to serve the Internet, granting access to > online books, shopping and electronic mail. > > "They might even be able to hold a job," Moore says. That seems obvious to me. > > According to the article, there are roughly one million people in the > United States who are paralyzed and cannot speak. That is more than I would > have expected. > > - Jed > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 09:12:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA22531; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:11:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:11:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990914121103.007b4e10 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:11:03 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Computers that read the mind!! No Needles in the head! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"m5KvW1.0.vV5.sEdtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30302 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer writes: > Since 1987 there has been a system which acquired BAC, or Brain >Actuated Control signals, from humans. > See May, 1994 Discover Magazine article titled "Brain Powered" >By Benett Daviss [sp?]. > The method uses three scalp surface electrodes. If this is the case, why do you suppose the researchers at Emory are implanting probes in the primary motor cortex? They must have a reason. Presumably they get a clearer signal. Perhaps you should acquaint them with your research. The Emory U. neurologist is Dr. Philip Kennedy. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 10:34:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20386; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:33:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:33:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: sciclub-list eskimo.com cc: webhead-l eskimo.com Subject: $6 laser pointers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xwlAL2.0.A-4.QRett" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30303 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, David Kardelis wrote: > > On laser pointers, I just bought a bunch from Harbor Freight. They have a > very nice one on sale for $6.95. The dot is round, comes with batteries- 2 > AA > The pointer is very bright. I tried one in the early morning outside, sun > not quite up but light out and the laser pointer was easily visible on a > wall >100 yds away. Cool! And the price has just dropped to $5.99 Time to buy! http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Category.taf?CategoryID=690 ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 10:39:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25173; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:38:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:38:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990914133741.007aab90 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:37:41 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: $6 laser pointers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"C-qbr2.0.996.IWett" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30304 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yeah, my daughter bought me one at Office Depot for less than $10. We had a great time shining it into a dark bath full of steaming hot water and sprayed mist. Also, illuminating drops of water on tile. They look quite different, depending on the size and shape of the drop and the internal reflections. I am going to try taking electronic photos of a laser lighting up oranges and other translucent objects in the dark. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 11:10:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05852; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:09:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:09:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: "Horganism"???? Perfect!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"S0Slx.0.6R1.9zett" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30305 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone else taken note of the "Reference Frame" editorial in Physics Today magazine? By Philip Anderson? WHY DO THEY LEAVE PHYSICS? He quotes a recent letter from one of his students who was bailing out of physics: There are several reasons for wanting to leave academia, not the least being the desire for a work envirnment which rewards those who take appropriate risks. The problems I have been attracted to are motivated by real world data where there is no existing theoretical model. Involvement in such projects require a desire for new challenges, and appetite for risk, and the ability to be innovative yet humble in the face of data. (Some ellipses deleted, see original in PT 9/99 for the less-readable version.) Anderson goes on to say: My own diagnosis is pretty much identical to the ones implied in the letter [above]. The members of our profession - and particularly those who have responsibility for hiring and for funding research - are infected with "Horganism", the belief that the end of science (or at least of our science) is at hand and that all that is left to do is to grub away at Kuhnian "normal science" following the accepted paradigms. They believe that there are no mre scientific revolutions possible, and that we are now in pursuit of nothing but the next decimal place... All right! "Horganism!" Long have I searched for a single term that lables the sickness in science. "Pathological Skepticism" is a mouthful. "Scientism" isn't a widely-known word. "Arrogance" makes me look like a namecaller. "Horganism" I wonder if Dr. Anderson coined it? It's the perfect ironic comeuppance for John Horgan: to be forever after associated with the suppression of novelty in science. Horganism killed CF, and if it was a bit stronger would have taken out the Wright bros, and QM and Relativity as well. If we all begin to use "Horganism" as a lable, then in centuries hence, we and all our accomplishments will be dust, yet those future scientists will still reap the benefits of 1999 by yet retaining the ability to label and therefore begin to excise all "Horganism" from their souls. Ref: THE END OF HORGAN (on edge.org) http://www.edge.org/discourse/index.cgi?OPTION=VIEW&THREAD=john-horgan/5-7-97/theendofhorgan? Re: "The End of Science" http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/end.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 11:21:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11616; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:21:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:21:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990914141956.00799390 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:19:56 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC Continuing saga of endostatin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"vDNyy2.0.Qr2.C8ftt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30306 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Endostatin may be a revolutionary cure for cancer. The scientific establishment is treating it quite differently from the way it treated cold fusion. Here are some quotes from the latest from the Wall Street Journal, September 13, 1999. "Agency Fails to Reproduce Tumor Drug 's Effects," by Ralph T. King Jr. - JR The National Cancer Institute has failed to reproduce the highly publicized effects of a tumor drug after months of attempts at its labs, an NCI official said. The agency nevertheless decided to begin human tests of the drug by year's end. The NCI is studying the drug, endostatin, in partnership with EntreMed Inc., a small biotechnology firm in Rockville, Md., and Harvard researcher Judah Folkman . . . Endostatin drew wide attention last year after Dr. Folkman reported that it and another agent, angiostatin, wiped out tumors in mice. The agency's decision is startling, several clinical-trial experts said, because it flouts scientific convention and might increase the odds that the drug will prove disappointing. To pass muster, experimental-data tests need to be able to be reproduced by other researchers working independently. . . . "Science by its very nature is usually reproducible," said Fred Appelbaum . . . "I can't think of a parallel circumstance where a drug worked in one lab and didn't in others and then went ahead into clinical trials." . . . Edward Sausville, associate director of developmental therapeutics, said endostatin, a naturally occurring protein, is "very safe" and that because of its properties, there is no better way to determine its effectiveness than through human tests. "In this very special case, which could be a bellwether for a whole class of agents, we have to rethink our approach," Dr. Sausville said. "Politics had nothing to do with this." NCI researchers have worked on endostatin for nearly two years, seeking to confirm Dr. Folkman's data. Last January, after many failures, they visited Dr. Folkman's lab where they observed his methods, performed the experiments themselves, and achieved "marked suppression of tumor growth," Dr. Sausville said. But back in their own labs at the NCI, they once again found they couldn't make endostatin work in mice. The mouse form of endostatin tested in the NCI's labs is different from a human form of endostatin that will be used in patients. "It certainly is confusing," Dr. Sausville said. Mary Sundeen, an EntreMed spokesman, said, "Even if the NCI or anyone else could never reproduce results Dr. Folkman reported with mouse endostatin, it would in no way deter the critical path for drug development of recombinant human endostatin. We are trying to treat cancer in humans not in mice. Dr. Folkman decline to comment. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 12:40:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA07879; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:39:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:39:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37DEA673.1E2D6779 ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:48:04 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: "Horganism"???? Perfect!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P3xmi2.0._w1.aHgtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30307 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept. 14, 1999 Vortex, Yes, read it yesterday and reread it today. It bears reprinting in the cold fusion magazines to explain the caustic inertia of the establishment CF skeptics --- mediocrity entrenched, too slow to realize it, and too protective of their own security to move to new grounds. -ak- William Beaty wrote: > Has anyone else taken note of the "Reference Frame" editorial in Physics > Today magazine? By Philip Anderson? WHY DO THEY LEAVE PHYSICS? > > He quotes a recent letter from one of his students who was bailing out of > physics: > > There are several reasons for wanting to leave academia, not the least > being the desire for a work envirnment which rewards those who take > appropriate risks. The problems I have been attracted to are motivated > by real world data where there is no existing theoretical model. > Involvement in such projects require a desire for new challenges, and > appetite for risk, and the ability to be innovative yet humble in the > face of data. > > (Some ellipses deleted, see original in PT 9/99 for the less-readable > version.) > > Anderson goes on to say: > > My own diagnosis is pretty much identical to the ones implied in the > letter [above]. The members of our profession - and particularly those > who have responsibility for hiring and for funding research - are > infected with "Horganism", the belief that the end of science (or at > least of our science) is at hand and that all that is left to do is to > grub away at Kuhnian "normal science" following the accepted paradigms. > They believe that there are no mre scientific revolutions possible, and > that we are now in pursuit of nothing but the next decimal place... > > All right! "Horganism!" Long have I searched for a single term that > lables the sickness in science. "Pathological Skepticism" is a mouthful. > "Scientism" isn't a widely-known word. "Arrogance" makes me look like a > namecaller. > > "Horganism" > > I wonder if Dr. Anderson coined it? > > It's the perfect ironic comeuppance for John Horgan: to be forever after > associated with the suppression of novelty in science. Horganism killed > CF, and if it was a bit stronger would have taken out the Wright bros, and > QM and Relativity as well. > > If we all begin to use "Horganism" as a lable, then in centuries hence, we > and all our accomplishments will be dust, yet those future scientists will > still reap the benefits of 1999 by yet retaining the ability to label and > therefore begin to excise all "Horganism" from their souls. > > Ref: > > THE END OF HORGAN (on edge.org) > http://www.edge.org/discourse/index.cgi?OPTION=VIEW&THREAD=john-horgan/5-7-97/theendofhorgan? > > Re: "The End of Science" > http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/end.html > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 12:47:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12081; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:46:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:46:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007801befeba$4605a5e0$0f441d26 fjsparber> References: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:43:58 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"eGEma.0.Ry2.jOgtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30308 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Schnurer >To: >Cc: John Schnurer >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 5:51 AM >Subject: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater > >John Schnurer wrote: > > >> >> Dear MJ and Vo, >> >> Take you styro bbs and wrap in plastic wrap to make "plug" and this >> will minimise absorption. >> >> Is anyone actually MEASURING power? usual spec for cheap cooking >> appliance might vary +/- 10 to 20 % ... and line voltage can range from >> 105 or 107 to 115 or 125 ACV. > >Right on John. One needs to measure all variables carefully. This was a >rough >cut to see if the Mizuno-Ohmori OU results could be achieved using a more >stable/predictable heat flux. ***{Yes, a very rough cut. One of the things I assumed, for example, was that the heat of vaporization applied to ml of water rather than to grams. I knew better, but I figured the approximation would be good enough. Actually taking the fact that the density of water falls as the temperature rises into account, however, raises the COP by a surprising amount. Here are the numbers, based on my Run 3: At 28.4 deg. C, water has a density of .99618 gm/ml, so the 200 ml weighed 199.2 gms. At 99 deg. C, water has a density of .96050, and so the 173 ml that remained in the container weighed 166 gms. The weight, therefore, dropped by 200 - 166 = 34 gms. Since there were 17.8 gms of water absorbed in the "peanuts," it follows that 34 - 17.8 = 16.2 gms went to steam. That means heat of vaporization was (539.3)(16.2)(4.185) = 36,563 joules, and thus E-out = 59092 + 36563 = 95655 joules. Result: the COP = 95655/72400 = 1.32, and this begins to get interesting! --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Regards. Frederick >> >> J >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 12:50:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12189; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:47:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:47:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:51:20 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: sciclub-list eskimo.com, webhead-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: $6 laser pointers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"excEk3.0.5-2.pOgtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30309 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: They must be less than that because we pay 6 clams at the GAS STATIONS! On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, William Beaty wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, David Kardelis wrote: > > > > On laser pointers, I just bought a bunch from Harbor Freight. They have a > > very nice one on sale for $6.95. The dot is round, comes with batteries- 2 > > AA > > The pointer is very bright. I tried one in the early morning outside, sun > > not quite up but light out and the laser pointer was easily visible on a > > wall >100 yds away. > > > Cool! And the price has just dropped to $5.99 Time to buy! > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Category.taf?CategoryID=690 > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 12:57:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA15702; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:55:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:55:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:55:46 -1000 Subject: Re: Last time I think I was ignored but... From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909141555540.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZdnfK.0.Gr3.8Xgtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30310 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John - > For instance take the paramagnetic attractor that has a scrap of metal > which is induced by a coil, but is attracted by the stronger magnetic > field of the washer. This description makes no sense to me, as it doesn't explain what these parts are (like "washer", or "scrap of metal"), or how they're arranged with respect to one another in order to understand what they do, let alone the fact that it does not describe at all how a few parts like that demonstrate free energy. Could you describe this again more clearly? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 13:05:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19176; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:04:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:04:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:03:57 -1000 Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909141603727.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"01bXP2.0.Yh4.negtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30311 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: M. Jones wrote: > and this begins to get interesting! Wasn't it one of the ZPF folks who said that there's enough energy in a coffee cup to boil off the oceans...? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 14:18:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA09743; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:15:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:15:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990914161512.01088adc mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:15:12 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater In-Reply-To: <199909141603727.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UESGJ.0.4O2.6ihtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30312 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:03 AM 9/14/99 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >M. Jones wrote: > >> and this begins to get interesting! > >Wasn't it one of the ZPF folks who said that there's enough energy in a >coffee cup to boil off the oceans...? "ZPF folk" is a bit restrictive. That quote belongs to John A. Wheeler, a great physicist. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 14:41:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16663; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:35:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:40:16 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: "Horganism"???? Perfect!! In-Reply-To: <37DEA673.1E2D6779 ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-BdAX2.0.H44.z-htt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30313 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How long is the "it" you read? Send by ASCII if not too bad. John Please On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Akira Kawasaki wrote: > Sept. 14, 1999 > > Vortex, > > Yes, read it yesterday and reread it today. It bears reprinting in the cold fusion magazines to > explain the caustic inertia of the establishment CF skeptics --- mediocrity entrenched, too slow > to realize it, and too protective of their own security to move to new grounds. > > -ak- > > William Beaty wrote: > > > Has anyone else taken note of the "Reference Frame" editorial in Physics > > Today magazine? By Philip Anderson? WHY DO THEY LEAVE PHYSICS? > > > > He quotes a recent letter from one of his students who was bailing out of > > physics: > > > > There are several reasons for wanting to leave academia, not the least > > being the desire for a work envirnment which rewards those who take > > appropriate risks. The problems I have been attracted to are motivated > > by real world data where there is no existing theoretical model. > > Involvement in such projects require a desire for new challenges, and > > appetite for risk, and the ability to be innovative yet humble in the > > face of data. > > > > (Some ellipses deleted, see original in PT 9/99 for the less-readable > > version.) > > > > Anderson goes on to say: > > > > My own diagnosis is pretty much identical to the ones implied in the > > letter [above]. The members of our profession - and particularly those > > who have responsibility for hiring and for funding research - are > > infected with "Horganism", the belief that the end of science (or at > > least of our science) is at hand and that all that is left to do is to > > grub away at Kuhnian "normal science" following the accepted paradigms. > > They believe that there are no mre scientific revolutions possible, and > > that we are now in pursuit of nothing but the next decimal place... > > > > All right! "Horganism!" Long have I searched for a single term that > > lables the sickness in science. "Pathological Skepticism" is a mouthful. > > "Scientism" isn't a widely-known word. "Arrogance" makes me look like a > > namecaller. > > > > "Horganism" > > > > I wonder if Dr. Anderson coined it? > > > > It's the perfect ironic comeuppance for John Horgan: to be forever after > > associated with the suppression of novelty in science. Horganism killed > > CF, and if it was a bit stronger would have taken out the Wright bros, and > > QM and Relativity as well. > > > > If we all begin to use "Horganism" as a lable, then in centuries hence, we > > and all our accomplishments will be dust, yet those future scientists will > > still reap the benefits of 1999 by yet retaining the ability to label and > > therefore begin to excise all "Horganism" from their souls. > > > > Ref: > > > > THE END OF HORGAN (on edge.org) > > http://www.edge.org/discourse/index.cgi?OPTION=VIEW&THREAD=john-horgan/5-7-97/theendofhorgan? > > > > Re: "The End of Science" > > http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/end.html > > > > ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science > > Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 15:28:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32288; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:26:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:26:54 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:26:12 -1000 Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909141826665.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Krdod2.0.Mu7.kkitt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30314 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott - I was afraid to attribute directly because I thought that I remembered some disagreement about the quote, that it was actually a sort of misquote that was creatively designed by an interviewer or magazine editor(s). >>Wasn't it one of the ZPF folks who said that there's enough energy in a >>coffee cup to boil off the oceans...? > > "ZPF folk" is a bit restrictive. That quote belongs to John A. Wheeler, a > great physicist. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 15:28:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA32593; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:27:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:27:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:27:32 -1000 Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909141827868.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"3IU_V1.0.8z7.Plitt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30315 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott - I was afraid to attribute directly because I thought that I remembered some disagreement about the quote, that it was actually a sort of misquote that was creatively designed by an interviewer or magazine editor(s). Anyway, it looks like we ought to consider stocking up on coffee cups! >>Wasn't it one of the ZPF folks who said that there's enough energy in a >>coffee cup to boil off the oceans...? > > "ZPF folk" is a bit restrictive. That quote belongs to John A. Wheeler, a > great physicist. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 17:09:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA01852; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:07:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:07:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37DEE64D.D20ED37E ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:20:29 +1200 From: John Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Last time I think I was ignored but... References: <199909141555540.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1HoUO3.0.sS.ADktt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30316 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I thought it would have been well known... Excuse me. It is a device used to attract pieces of metal such as aluminum by inducing eddy current in them, a coil is energized which induces a current in a washer, It also induces current in the scrap of aluminum. The scrap of AL is attracted to the washer. It is induced by the inductive field of the coil but the dominant magnetic field (near the AL) is the one created by the eddy currents in the washer. The coil and washer are both threaded on a steel bolt (I think) and with the washer at the end near the scrap of AL (or other nonferrous metal) to be attracted. This is only one instance of where an induction field and magnetic field become separated, a transformer for instance keeps all the magnetic flux in it's core, any AC magnetic field outside the core would obviously be the only magnetic flux though the strongest inductive field could still be that of the transformer, By separating the magnetic and inductive fields things seem to become possible. John Berry Rick Monteverde wrote: > John - > > > For instance take the paramagnetic attractor that has a scrap of metal > > which is induced by a coil, but is attracted by the stronger magnetic > > field of the washer. > > This description makes no sense to me, as it doesn't explain what these > parts are (like "washer", or "scrap of metal"), or how they're arranged with > respect to one another in order to understand what they do, let alone the > fact that it does not describe at all how a few parts like that demonstrate > free energy. Could you describe this again more clearly? > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 18:23:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA27872; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:22:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:22:54 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <186f6ebe.25104ec8 aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:22:16 EDT Subject: Re: Alternatives to Tungsten in the Mizuno-Ohmori Experiments To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"z6_2g3.0.Qp6.kJltt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30317 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/12/99 6:58:16 AM, fjsparber earthlink.net wrote: "a loop of Nichrome wire carrying a few hundred watts, at a red heat, immersed in the H2O-K2CO3 or D2O-K2CO3 would probably get results similar to the Tungsten glow discharge experiments, without all of the chemical reaction "artifacts". It could also be biased so as to act as a cathode,too." I agree. Hadn't thought of nichrome wire myself, though. I doubt that Mizuno or Ohmori will try it, since it doesn't seem to fit into what looks like an already-full experimental program; but once they convince others of the reality of their excess heat, then someone else probably will try nichrome wire. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 21:04:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA14674; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:02:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:02:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19990915040234.29505.rocketmail web110.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Light waves w/ DC Offset To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"cSmT91.0.7b3.7fntt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30318 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>No such thing as sinusoidal DC. That IS, AC. > > Hmmmm...well, alternating current in a wire indicates that the electrons > in the wire change direction. In a dc oscillation the current goes from > a low current to higher and back to low again but does not change > direction, that is the idea here. Jim, I think you are using words in a different way than usual. "DC oscillation" makes no sense to me; it is a contradiction, because DC does not oscillate. What you are calling DC oscillaiton is just the superposition or sum of a DC plus an AC part. >Michael Schaffer wrote: > >>There is no dc on the receiving antenna, just ac. The dc on the >transmitting >>antenna has no effect (after the transient EM wavefront that propagates >out >> from the tansmitting antenna when the dc is first applied). > >Ok so you are saying that even if we had two different systems of >transmission, one where the current in the transmitting antenna never >changes direction, and the other where the current changes direction all >the time, that a recieving antenna would not be able to distinguish >between the two differnt transmission modes... A transmitting antenna where the current never changes direction must be some kind of a closed loop powered by a DC current source or else a superconductor with a frozen-in magnetic flux. It makes a time-invarient (DC) magnetic field. Typical "radio" antennas do not detect a DC magnetic field, but there are other "antennas" or sensors that can. Therefore, by using appropriate different "antennas" one can detect both the AC and DC fields and distinguish one from the other. I want to emphasize that in reality, even a DC field has a start and an end. Whether it is turned on and off rapidly or slowly, it is changing during that time. The changing field, say the growing field during turnon, propagates outward as an electromagnetic wave. This can be detected by a "radio" or AC-sensitive antenna, e.g. as a "pop" in an AM radio when an electrical switch is operated. Behind this wavefront is the static field. It is not quite static, however, because the "DC" field volume grows in volume as it fills in the space behind the front. The amount of additional DC energy far out gets infinitessimally small and cannot be measured in practice. === Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 21:40:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA13047; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DF1CE7.1EE0 ca-ois.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:13:27 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <37DA603B.74F7@ca-ois.com> <37DBE2EF.4E9D@ca-ois.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1ftm22.0.nB3.o9ott" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30319 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Jim Ostrowski wrote > > > >How many cycles of an em radiation comprise a "photon"? If energy values > >must be included in the calculation as in Planck's formula*, how is this > >calculation performed so that you know when you have a "1 photon" of em > >radiation coming out of your rf signal > >generator? > > > >Say I have an rf generator putting out 100 mhz sine wave at 10 v p-p > >amplitude into 1 k resistor. How many cycles of the 100 mhz must the > >generator produce in order to make 1 photon? > > > [snip] > >Anyway proceeding with Planck's formula: > > > > E of our RF Photon would = > > 100 mhz * 6.63 * 10E-34 = > > 6.63 * 10E-26 Joules per second. Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > No, actually this is in Joules (not "per second"). I.e. 6.63E-26 Joules/ > photon (assuming you meant MHz). > OK. > > > >Doing an energy calculation with Ohm's formulas: > > > > E = V^2/r > > 10v^2 = 100 > > 100/1000 = 10 Joules continuous. > > This is actually 0.1 joules / sec , otherwise known as 0.1 watts > (100/1000 = 0.1, not 10). > Oooops...yeah, OK you be the math honcho then. > > > >Dividing 10 joules continuous by 6.63 * 10E-26 Joules per second yields= > > > > 1.508E+26 photons per second at 100 mhz into a 1k resistor at 10 acv, > >according to the calculator that comes with Windows. > > This should be 0.1 watts / (6.63E-26 Joules/photon) = 1.5E24 > photons/sec. Yes. > > > > >How can that be? There are way more photons than there are cycles per > >second in this arrangement. How do you get 1 photon of radiation at 100 > >mhz? > > Hmmmm... apparently in this case a photon is less than 1 cycle :). > [snip] Yes... that point is evident. I was off by a few orders of magnitude but the conclusion remains as you stated, above. > In reality I suspect that neither model is correct. One is the leg, and > the other is the trunk ;). Let's not leave it at that... the objective is as in the header, resolution of the duality. Why should there be some deep arbitrary mystery that cannot be resolved by investigating a few speculative mechanisms? If photons per second = Power/hf, then it appears to me that the reality is that it's not the "photon" energy values themselves that are somehow "discreet" or discontinuous and therefore detectable say, with an oscilloscope, or some other kind of instrumantation (that should be obvious from our conclusion), but the "motions" involving the transfer of energy and frequency _INFORMATION_ between individual ATOMS (or electrons) that is discontinuous. First, let's define what a "frequency" is which f in Planck's equation. Frequency is merely "events" divided by time. In the case of a transmitter operating at a specific frequency, you have "events" consisting of electrons alternating in their directions in the antenna wire. These alternations of direction can be further broken down into cause effect relationships between the motions of the electrons. On the macroscopic scale we see merely the cumulative cause -> effect, which would be "cause" = collapse of the magnetic field around an inductor, and the "effect" being the charging of a capacitor. But if this information must be transferred somehow downstream via the motions of individual electrons, that would mean there should be "bit" duration period where THERE IS NO "MOTION" of the electrons, because they must stop for some definable amounnt of time in order for a bit to occur which tells the next electron how (WHICH WAY) to move (up or down the wire). The precept behind this is that there are no "bits" which endure for time t = zero. A bit has a rise, sustain and fall time. An electron must "wait" for this information before it acts upon it. So if we say "photons per second = P/hf" then maybe we mean data bits per second = P/hf. Just for fun, let's make all the possible transformations of the idea that bit rate (BR) = P/hf, breaking down f into events divided by seconds (e/t) . BR = P/(h*(e/t)) P = BR*(e/t) (e/t) = P/BR Solve for t, anyone? Is material existence discontinuous? Are there "phases of existence"? where there is another, invisible world that only exists during our "information" phase? Does this explain the phenomena of "ghosts" that "phase" in and out of visibility? Did the Philadelphia Experiment stumble on a way to "phase shift" an entire ship and it's crew so that they became invisible? The electron precession frequency of magnetized iron is: Wp = y * Uo * H Where (H) is the applied magnetic field and (y) is the magnetogyric ratio (e/m) . Uo is the permeability constant which is analogous to the refractive index, n. Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 22:08:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA03578; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:07:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:07:09 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF2BC4.6E336B6D ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:16:53 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" , John Schnurer Subject: Re: "Horganism"???? Perfect!! References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0D65121CDE224A96EFE38BF0" Resent-Message-ID: <"V30cu.0.qt.ybott" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30320 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0D65121CDE224A96EFE38BF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sept.14, 1999 Vortex, Physics Today, September 1999. page 11, 'Reference Frame' "Why Do They Leave Physics" by Philip W. Anderson -ak- I think this complies with the 'fair use' copyright permission by the APS. John Schnurer wrote: > How long is the "it" you read? Send by ASCII if not too bad. --------------0D65121CDE224A96EFE38BF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Anderson.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Anderson.txt" REFERENCE FRAME Why Do They Leave Physics? Philip W. Anderson I would like to quote for you from an application letter that one of my students sent to a well-known management consulting firm after completing his second postdoc and contemplating yet another as his most probable next step. There are several reasons for wanting to leave academia, not the least being the desire for a ... work environment which ... rewards those who take appropriate risks... The problems I have been attracted to ... are motivated by real world data where there is no ... existing theoretical model. Involvement in such projects ... requires a desire for new challenges, an appetite for risk, and the ability to be innovative yet humble in the face of ... data. You will be pleased to know that the application succeeded and that the writer is now happily earning as much as I did at the end of 50 years in physics. We are experiencing a serious brain drain in physics, with condensed matter theory taking some of the worst hits. Many of my colleagues must have seen similar letters. The obvious simple answers to the questions raised by this letter do not seem to be viable: > Is it simply that the logs able and imaginative are being weeded out? No, quite the opposite, in my experience: Those who leave are in many cases the cream of the crop. I hear this again and again from many different mentors. I find many of those hired for permanent jobs in physics to be among the least creative. > Is there a serious shortage of permanent jobs? Well, to some extent, but I hear again and again of universities that initiate searches at the tenure track level but postpone the hiring decision indefinitely. > Can we blame Wall Street for seducing our best and brightest with enormous financial temptations? In the first place, the jobs are not exclusively in finance but in a wide variety of fields; in the second, it is my experience that most of our lost physicists, certainly the one I quote above, have been willing to endure considerable hardship to stay in physics if they can be assured of a reasonably permanent job at an acceptable salary. Frankly, I think that the young writer of this letter has put his finger on the problem. "A work environment which rewards those who take appropriate risks" and the desire for "new challenges" are what thrilled me about science many decades ago, and what we no longer have in much of academic physics. It would be easy to blame the National Science Foundation and the other funding agencies, or the contraction of fundamental science in industry, for this situation. Both contribute; NSF has become steadily more bureaucratic, requiring more rigidly formatted proposals and more unanimity among referees, and there is a new emphasis in industry on applicable research. But industry is hiring young people, and my impression is that it is doing a better job in pinpointing creativity than are academia or government laboratories. My own diagnosis is pretty much identical to the ones implied in the letter. The members of our profession and particularly those who have responsibility for hiring and for funding research are infected with "Horganism," the belief that the end of science (or at least of our science) is at hand, and that all that is left to do is to grub away at Kuhnian "normal science" following the accepted paradigms. They believe that there are no more scientific revolutions possible, and that we are now in pursuit of nothing but the next decimal place hence, by the way, the funding prejudice in favor of heavy computer use and the existence of the oxymoron "computational physics." In such a world, as in all "normal science" periods, the institutional response that is occurring would make sense. Any proposal, to be funded, should have essentially unanimous peer approval. Any new appointment should have unanimous approbation from all senior figures; any such senior figure who disagrees with the consensus is bound to be a crackpot and may be ignored. When, in fact, it turns out that in the real world, physics, even condensed matter theory, is full of crises and controversies, and reputable senior scientists have deep disagreements, the administrator throws up his hands in bewilderment and postpones filling the slot. Another option is to settle for the most orthodox seeming appointee, who has the most easily comprehensible (read "simple-minded") program in mind. Finally and worst of all, the administrator feels constrained to assure himself that the candidate is "fungible"; that is, that he or she can attract the requisite unanimity-- five out of six "excellents" from the NSF references. (The flexibility of our funding system is a thing of the past, now, with other agencies tending to follow NSF's lead rather than to think for themselves; this practice may be as bad as following the idiosyncratic and often fallible judgment of the grant officer himself.) We must not let The End of Science become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason that Horgan's pessimism is so wrong lies in the nature of science itself.Whenever a question receives an answer, science moves on and asks a new kind of question, of which there seem to be an endless supply. The kind of people we most need are not those who are good at answering well-posed old questions, but those who are capable of posing new ones. The best way to prevent the end of science is to provide opportunity in abundance for the most creative and original of our young people. This is not happening. But it needs to. Philip Anderson is a condensed matter theorist, who is the Joseph Henry Professor of Physics Emeritus at Princeton University in Princeton, New Jersey. --------------0D65121CDE224A96EFE38BF0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 14 22:29:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09278; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:28:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:28:41 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF30AE.AE251060 ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:37:50 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" , John Schnurer Subject: One correction in Anderson text Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9C1Fg2.0.kG2.8wott" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30321 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept 14, 1999 Vortex, The OCR read the scanner copy to read --'logs able' (on bottom of first page. It should read -- 'less able' . -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 02:49:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA23032; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:48:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:48:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001701beff67$8872eca0$6c441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: OU Turkey Ewe, Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:45:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"0WUgm1.0.kd5.Rjstt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30322 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Going by the propensity for Biomass to Exotherm at around 400 F, (Spontaneous Human Combustion?) a predicted temperature for a maximum OU (C.O.P.) peak, is 382 F (194.4 C). This would correspond to a water vapor pressure of ~185 PSIG. Seems that the best oven temperature for roasting a turkey,or leg of lamb, is about 385 F, isn't it? How's your supply of "Buffalo Wings", Terry? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 07:12:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09975; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:11:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:11:26 -0700 Message-ID: <19990915141146.3740.rocketmail web135.yahoomail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:11:46 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: Wall Street Journal/Antigravity/Free Energy To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: iri erols.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"2y5882.0.nR2.Eawtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30323 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See Monday s Sept 13 Wall Street Journal for section R on ENERGY....Millis , Podkletnov , Mallove, Miley Randal Mils all are mentioned Washington Energy Summit Sept 29/30...many full pages! Best, Ron Kita Antigravitics_R_US __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 07:19:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA13594; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:17:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:17:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990915091628.0107f6d4 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:16:28 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37DF1CE7.1EE0 ca-ois.com> References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <37DBE2EF.4E9D ca-ois.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"pRcLQ.0.EK3.ifwtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30324 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just a viewpoint that may help in this discussion: The "discreteness" of photons is difficult to discern at radio frequencies. However, at x-ray energies (~ 10 keV per photon), one can reliably and unambiguously count individual photons. In fact, with the right detector, you can measure the energy of each photon quite accurately. That is the basis of a modern x-ray fluorescence analyzer. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 07:25:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA16063; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:23:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:23:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001701beff67$8872eca0$6c441d26 fjsparber> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:21:10 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"PrNCN.0.vw3.Llwtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30325 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mitchell Jones >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:20 AM > Subject: Re: Perfect Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater > >Mitchell Jones wrote: > >> Hmm. I wonder if my 60 watt light bulbs are "over unity"? :-) > >They might be if you fill them with water. :-) > >What I see is a common denominator with the F&P Cell cathode bubbles, >M&O Glow Discharge (Sound), Griggs&Huffman Pumps, >Potapov Microcavition Device, and Sonoluminescence, and that is, >at the Liquid-Gas-Solid interface, formed when boiling starts, accompanied >by formation and collapse of microbubbles, as evidenced bythe "boiling >sound", >OU energy is released. > >Why and How, is a different question. > >Regards, Frederick ***{For the record: this stuff about the "OU coffee cup heater" is just good, clean, fun, right? We agree that, when all the kinks are worked out of the calorimetry, the coffee cup heater is *not* going to be OU, right? Here are some additions to my last post on the topic: (1) Between the time when I turned off the coffee cup heater in Run 3 and the time when I jotted down the number of milliliters of water remaining in the vessel, I had to use a spoon to carefully remove the styrofoam "peanuts" that were floating on the top of the water, then remove the thermometer (which had been affixed to the side of the vessel with packing tape), and pour the liquid from the styrofoam container into a graduated beaker. During this time interval, the water in the vessel had time to cool, especially in the moment when it was being poured into the graduated beaker, since the walls of that beaker were at room temperature. Thus, though I did not measure the temperature of the water in the beaker at that time, I feel quite sure that it had declined from the 99 degrees that it registered at the end of the experiment. (It was, however, still hot enough to scald unprotected skin.) Naturally, to the extent that the temperature declined between the moment when I turned off the heater and the time I measured the volume of the remaining water, the COP also declined. Thus, by this consideration alone, we know that the COP was less than 1.32, and possibly closer to 1.08 as calculated in Run 2. (2) I used tap water for my experiments, rather than distilled water. However, the data about heat of vaporization, specific heat, etc., that I used in my calculations were for distilled water. If the calculations were tweaked to take this into account, or a run were done using distilled water--which I think I will do, since I need to deal with (1), above--further changes in the results could be expected. Bottom line: doing this sort of stuff is great fun, like playing army with plastic soldiers used to be, but we both agree that the OU results (for the coffee cup heater) are no more real than the plastic soldiers, right? In other words, when all is said and done and the various sources of heat have been properly accounted for, we are both sure that the COP will be 1.0, right? Just checking. :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 07:36:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23855; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DFADCF.EEBF066E bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:31:43 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU Turkey Ewe, Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater References: <001701beff67$8872eca0$6c441d26 fjsparber> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LD7C02.0.eq5.mtwtt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30326 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > > Going by the propensity for Biomass to Exotherm at around 400 F, > (Spontaneous Human Combustion?) a predicted temperature for > a maximum OU (C.O.P.) peak, is 382 F (194.4 C). > > This would correspond to a water vapor pressure of ~185 PSIG. > > Seems that the best oven temperature for roasting a turkey,or leg of lamb, > is about 385 F, isn't it? > > How's your supply of "Buffalo Wings", Terry? :-) Wouldn't the ideal temperature vary with barometric pressure? Properly prepared wings must first be fried to crisp the skin. They are then baked in hot sauce (Trappey's). Don't forget the celery and blue cheese! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 07:58:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA28285; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:57:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:57:45 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01beff92$c6f362e0$6c441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <001701beff67$8872eca0$6c441d26 fjsparber> <37DFADCF.EEBF066E@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: OU Turkey Ewe, Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:55:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"L7L_q.0.rv6.eFxtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30327 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Blanton To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 7:31 AM Subject: Re: OU Turkey Ewe, Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Terry wrote: > > Wouldn't the ideal temperature vary with barometric pressure? Not in a "pressure cooker". > > Properly prepared wings must first be fried to crisp the skin. > They are then baked in hot sauce (Trappey's). Ah, yes. Something like chitlins. > > Don't forget the celery and blue cheese! I think you mean bleu cheese, the moon is made of blue cheese. :-) Regards, Frederick > > Terry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 08:19:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02481; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:15:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:15:53 -0700 Message-ID: <003301beff95$4cad7a40$6c441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:13:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Kc2m23.0.cc.eWxtt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30328 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 7:21 AM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Mitchell Jones wrote: > > ***{For the record: this stuff about the "OU coffee cup heater" is just > good, clean, fun, right? We agree that, when all the kinks are worked out > of the calorimetry, the coffee cup heater is *not* going to be OU, right? Until the proper benchtop tests are conducted and proven to the contrary it is "unquestionably" OU, right? Interesting to see (with the dark adapted eye) the occasional flashes of light when it is run in a very dark room. [Snip Super-Science] > > Bottom line: doing this sort of stuff is great fun, like playing army with > plastic soldiers used to be, but we both agree that the OU results (for the > coffee cup heater) are no more real than the plastic soldiers, right? In > other words, when all is said and done and the various sources of heat have > been properly accounted for, we are both sure that the COP will be 1.0, > right? Oh ye of little faith! I skipped Tin Soldiers in preference for Real Living Dolls sporting Living Bras. Now that they don't wear Any, it seems to have taken away half the fun. :-) > > Just checking. :-) Just waiting. :-) Regards, Frederick > > --Mitchell Jones}*** > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 09:22:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA28876; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003301beff95$4cad7a40$6c441d26 fjsparber> References: Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:11:07 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"M73ij1.0.v27.pQytt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30329 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mitchell Jones >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 7:21 AM >Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater > >Mitchell Jones wrote: >> >> ***{For the record: this stuff about the "OU coffee cup heater" is just >> good, clean, fun, right? We agree that, when all the kinks are worked out >> of the calorimetry, the coffee cup heater is *not* going to be OU, right? > >Until the proper benchtop tests are conducted and proven to the contrary >it is "unquestionably" OU, right? ***{But, but (he sputtered), don't you realize what such a result would do to calorimetric science as it presently stands? This is just a garden variety heating element immersed in water. That's what scientists use to calibrate their calorimeters, Fred! For example, if Scott Little put my coffee cup heater inside his calorimeter and got a COP of 1.32, he would simply adjust his calorimeter to make the excess go away! (Correct me if I'm wrong, Scott.) Thus how could "proper benchtop tests" be conducted to refute this result? Any high-dollar calorimeter that showed OU for a coffee cup heater would simply be tweaked. Nobody would consider for an instant the possibility that this thing is really OU. And if it really is OU, then the implication would be that the type of kitchen table calorimetry based on first principles that I have been playing with is better than that done with expensive equipment in scientific laboratories. Surely you don't believe that! Does this mean you think Scott can't replicate Mizuno because his calorimeter is set to treat a COP of 1.32 as if it is a COP of 1.0? :-) --Mitchell Jones}*** > >Interesting to see (with the dark adapted eye) the occasional flashes of >light >when it is run in a very dark room. ***{What on earth prompted you to run your coffee cup heater in the dark? --Mitchell Jones}*** >[Snip Super-Science] >> >> Bottom line: doing this sort of stuff is great fun, like playing army with >> plastic soldiers used to be, but we both agree that the OU results (for >the >> coffee cup heater) are no more real than the plastic soldiers, right? In >> other words, when all is said and done and the various sources of heat >have >> been properly accounted for, we are both sure that the COP will be 1.0, >> right? > >Oh ye of little faith! I skipped Tin Soldiers in preference for Real Living >Dolls >sporting Living Bras. Now that they don't wear Any, it seems to have taken >away half the fun. :-) >> >> Just checking. :-) > >Just waiting. :-) > >Regards, Frederick ***{For the less scientifically adept among us who might be interested in trying this experiment, the crucial implements are: (a) a copy of the *Handbook of Chemistry and Physics* (available in used bookstores for around $15); (b) a good mercury thermometer that scales well above 100 deg. C; (c) a scale accurate to tenths of a gram; (c) a graduated cylinder or beaker that reads in milliliters; (d) a garden variety, 200 watt coffee cup heater; (d) a supply of styrofoam cups. [Note: some of the cups can be placed one inside the other to create the vessel to hold the water, while one or more of the others are chopped up using scissors, to create "peanuts" to float on top of the water. This type of "peanuts" probably will *not* absorb much water.] --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 09:36:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA29542; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DFCA36.2D ca-ois.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:32:54 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <37DBE2EF.4E9D ca-ois.com> <3.0.1.32.19990915091628.0107f6d4@mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mqUAt2.0.WD7.yZytt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30330 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > Just a viewpoint that may help in this discussion: > > The "discreteness" of photons is difficult to discern at radio frequencies. > However, at x-ray energies (~ 10 keV per photon), one can reliably and > unambiguously count individual photons. In fact, with the right detector, > you can measure the energy of each photon quite accurately. That is the > basis of a modern x-ray fluorescence analyzer. > I knew that! :-) It should be noted that with such detectors, it is NOT actually "photons" which are being counted, but rather "photo-electrons" which become dislodged from a metal surface by means of the photo-electric effect, or as in the xray method you mentioned, the Compton effect. These electrons have discreet, countable and definable energy levels, but for the "photons" such has not been proven, just theorized in order to explain the photoelectric effect, which the wave theory supposedly cannot. This is the essence of the Wave/Particle duality problem. More later, thank you Scott for this contribution. Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 09:51:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04507; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:49:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:49:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990915124830.007b0de0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:48:30 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater In-Reply-To: References: <003301beff95$4cad7a40$6c441d26 fjsparber> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qtzYS.0.K61.kuytt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30331 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lessee here . . . Fred wrote: >Oh ye of little faith! I skipped Tin Soldiers in preference for Real Living >Dolls >sporting Living Bras. . . . and, Um, Mitchell Jones responded: >***{For the less scientifically adept among us who might be interested in >trying this experiment, the crucial implements are: (a) a copy of the >*Handbook of Chemistry and Physics* (available in used bookstores for >around $15); (b) a good mercury thermometer that scales well above 100 deg. >C; (c) a scale accurate to tenths of a gram . . . It sounds like we are talking about two different experiments here. Chemistry is a key factor, but not the kind you learn in books. I'm with Fred on this: just waiting, not just checking. Elsewhere, Mitchell asked: >***{What on earth prompted you to run your coffee cup heater in the dark? Natural curiosity I suppose. And why not? It's a great idea! The eye is incredibly sensitive to visible band-width radiation. Check out one of these new 5 milliwatt nightlights. Keep your eyes open. Keep looking, even in the dark. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 10:37:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03902; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990915124830.007b0de0 pop.mindspring.com> References: <003301beff95$4cad7a40$6c441d26 fjsparber> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:31:08 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Resent-Message-ID: <"7gIMt.0.sy.IZztt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30332 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Lessee here . . . Fred wrote: > >>Oh ye of little faith! I skipped Tin Soldiers in preference for Real Living >>Dolls >>sporting Living Bras. . . . > >and, Um, Mitchell Jones responded: > >>***{For the less scientifically adept among us who might be interested in >>trying this experiment, the crucial implements are: (a) a copy of the >>*Handbook of Chemistry and Physics* (available in used bookstores for >>around $15); (b) a good mercury thermometer that scales well above 100 deg. >>C; (c) a scale accurate to tenths of a gram . . . > >It sounds like we are talking about two different experiments here. >Chemistry is a key factor, but not the kind you learn in books. I'm with >Fred on this: just waiting, not just checking. ***{Fred and I have been talking about whether garden variety coffee cup heaters are OU, not about Mizuno (though I mentioned Mizuno in passing, in my last post). While I will adjust my opinions to fit the facts, I will be *very* surprised if coffee cup heaters turn out to be "over unity." --Mitchell Jones}*** > > >Elsewhere, Mitchell asked: > >>***{What on earth prompted you to run your coffee cup heater in the dark? > >Natural curiosity I suppose. And why not? It's a great idea! The eye is >incredibly sensitive to visible band-width radiation. Check out one of >these new 5 milliwatt nightlights. > >Keep your eyes open. Keep looking, even in the dark. ***{I will check out my coffee cup heater in the dark, rest assured; but if I see flashes of light, I will be far less surprised than I will be if coffee cup heaters turn out to be "over unity." --MJ}*** > >- Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 11:22:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA12067; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:20:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:20:01 -0700 Message-ID: <001801beffaf$085fac40$bc441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <003301beff95$4cad7a40$6c441d26@fjsparber> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:17:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"w9cW31.0.Ty2.GD-tt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30333 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mitchell Jones To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 10:31 AM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater Mitchell Jones wrote: > > ***{Fred and I have been talking about whether garden variety coffee cup > heaters are OU, not about Mizuno (though I mentioned Mizuno in passing, in > my last post). While I will adjust my opinions to fit the facts, I will be > *very* surprised if coffee cup heaters turn out to be "over unity." > --Mitchell Jones}*** For the record, Mitchell, the unpredictable heat flux of the Mizuno-Ohmori experiments are what prompted my journey into the coffee cup heater experiments. IOW, in the 1 to 3 watts/cm^2 range the conduction-convection heating of the water is smooth and linear, in the 3 to 4 watts/cm^2 range which is the range of the Coffee Cup heaters, (with power levels comparable to the M&O experiments) the transition to "quiet nucleate boiling along with sound due to formation and collapse of microbubbles is where OU Should occur. In the M&O experiments, complicated by cathode discharge artifacts, the boiling goes beyond nucleate boiling to Leidenfrost and film boiling, up to several hundred watts/cm^2, and is further complicated by H2O-D2O oxidation of the tungsten and formation of tungstic acid and potassium tungstates. > > > ***{I will check out my coffee cup heater in the dark, rest assured; but if > I see flashes of light, I will be far less surprised than I will be if > coffee cup heaters turn out to be "over unity." --MJ}*** > Use a switched outlet. It is hazardous to try to plug in the heater in the dark, unless you don't mind frying your thumb. :-) Regards, Frederick > > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 13:44:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA06877; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:43:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:43:41 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:47:44 -0400 Message-ID: <01beffbb$8f7884c0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vzeq71.0.Jh1.zJ0ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30334 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > Just a viewpoint that may help in this discussion: > > The "discreteness" of photons is difficult to discern at radio frequencies. > However, at x-ray energies (~ 10 keV per photon), one can reliably and > unambiguously count individual photons. In fact, with the right detector, > you can measure the energy of each photon quite accurately. That is the > basis of a modern x-ray fluorescence analyzer. > - I agree with Jim O., the fact that high energy "photons" are emitted and absorbed in discrete frequency related amounts of energy says more about the emission and absorption mechanisms than it does about the necessary quantum nature of EM radiation. I have recently been playing with the idea that EM radiation is actually not quantized as radiation and that non quantized emission and absorption mechanisms for high frequency EM also exist. This ties in with the possible ZPF mediated stability of electron orbits. The assumption of a quantum nature for radiation may also have resulted in the erroneous interpretation of some of the fundamental experiments concerning the wave/particle duality and nonlocal interactions in quantum physics. - Does anyone know of an experiment that shows that actual radiation is quantized, as opposed to the emission or absorption mechanism of its interaction with matter? - Regards, George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 14:06:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14516; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:05:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:05:44 -0700 Message-ID: <391604984.937429540937.JavaMail.root web05.pub01> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:05:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Goldes To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: $50,000 vs relativity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 207.44.219.201 Resent-Message-ID: <"_b6dE2.0.kY3.ee0ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30335 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Crebigsol aol.com Dear Sirs: You are cordially invited to visit my website which mathematically disproves the most dominant theory in physics: relativity, both special and general. There is a further US$50,000 award for those who can defend the theory in light of what is presented on the website. The web address is <> I respect you as an honest and intelligent person working in the scientific field. My monetary offer serves no other purpose than to truly inspect the foundations of relativity. It does not attempt to draw out any personal priorities with respect to truth and money. Indeed, if anyone can claim the awards according to the set conditions, I, Cameron Rebigsol, will pay him with not only the monetary award, but also my sincere appreciation since this person has helped to reconcile my problems in truly understanding relativity. I will be very grateful if you joined me to re-evaluate the validity of relativity. Truly Yours Cameron Rebigsol __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 14:20:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21794; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:19:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:19:32 -0700 Message-ID: <003501beffc8$19ac0ac0$bc441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater, ZPE Speculation Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:15:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"goWKn1.0.RK5.Zr0ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30336 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Since you brought it up, Rick. :-) At 3.7 watts/cm^2 the heating element is constantly ~ 6 deg K above the stirred water temperature. Thus you have a vapor/microbubble generator in effect creating Casimir Platelets at each microbubble site. Then as the cooler water surface of the microbubble condenses the the vapor, the Casimer-Plate ZPE effect puts more energy into the collapsing surface than the 3.7 watts/cm^2. Walla, ZPE OU. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 15:20:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA15333; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:11:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:11:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990915171033.01083858 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:10:33 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <01beffbb$8f7884c0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"M8U3t2.0.Sl3.5c1ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30337 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:47 PM 9/15/99 -0400, George Holz wrote: >Does anyone know of an experiment that shows that actual radiation is >quantized, as opposed to the emission or absorption mechanism of its >interaction with matter? OK, I'm not quite out of the interaction-with-matter swamp which I inhabit but let me present a situation that seems to guarantee radiation's quantization: Consider the x-ray tube. A hot filament at one end (at ground) and a target at the other end (at a large + potential w.r.t. ground). Electrons boil off the filament and accelerate towards the target. When they hit the target, EM radiation is emitted because charge is undergoing sudden acceleration. Classically, there's no reason why this radiation needs to be quantized. Also, we're not talking about electrons moving between energy levels in atoms, we're talking about plain old classical deceleration of the electrons when they interact with the Coulomb fields in the target. To be sure, some excitation of the target atoms occurs but let's ignore that and focus on the radiation emitted by the high-speed electrons when they are stopped: bremsstrahlung. Let some of this bremsstrahlung radiation impinge obliquely upon an atomic-sized diffraction grating (i.e. an analyzing crystal). The radiation scattered off the crystal will spread out according to it's wavelength. Now arrange a detector (sorry, we really need to have one) so that it can be moved so as to scan through the fan of radiation leaving the crystal. BTW, I'm describing an x-ray spectrometer. Now here's the interesting part. With today's x-ray detector technology we can arrange for this detector to be able to count individual x-rays and to provide us with an accurate measurement of the total energy deposited in the detector by each x-ray. As we scan along with our detector sampling x-rays of successively shorter and shorter wavelength, we discover to our amazement that the amount of energy deposited per x-ray is ALWAYS well correlated with the wavelengh! For example, when we have the detector positioned to intercept x-rays with a wavelength of 2 Angstroms, the energy deposited per x-ray is always 6.2 keV. When we're set to receive 1 Angstrom wavelengths, the energy deposited per x-ray is always 12.4 keV. We NEVER see EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength that deposits, say, 3 keV of energy into our detector. Never. Importantly, this particular detector works in a way that does not prevent the detection of a 1 Angstom photon of 3 keV energy. The detector is made of Li-doped Si and it is operated at 77K (liquid nitrogen temp). Under these conditions, the band gap (energy difference between bound electron states and the conduction band) is about 2 eV. When an x-ray strikes the detector, it scatters around in the Si lattice and delivers all of its energy to these electrons. It does so by raising N of them into the conduction band, where N is given by N = Exray / 2eV. In other words, all of the incident x-ray's energy goes into raising electrons into the conduction band and the number that get raised is proportional to the total energy of the incident x-ray. A 12.4 keV x-ray puts about 6200 electrons into the conduction band and a 3 keV x-ray would put 1500 electrons up there. These electrons are then swept out of the Si xtal by an applied bias and create a pulse, whose total charge is proportional to the x-ray energy. As you can see this detector is perfectly capable of detecting 3 keV x-rays as well as 12 keV x-rays. The point is that it is not the detector (as far as I can see) that somehow predetermines how much energy of 1 Angstrom wavelength EM radiation it takes to make one "event". It's the radiation. Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength always comes in packages that contain 12.4 keV of energy. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 15:28:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA21348; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:27:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:27:31 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:27:26 -1000 Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater, ZPE Speculation From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909151827774.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZG8mt.0.QD5.Jr1ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30338 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > Since you brought it up, Rick. :-) > > At 3.7 watts/cm^2 the heating element is constantly ~ 6 deg K above > the stirred water temperature. Thus you have a vapor/microbubble > generator in effect creating Casimir Platelets at each microbubble site. > > Then as the cooler water surface of the microbubble condenses the > the vapor, the Casimer-Plate ZPE effect puts more energy into the > collapsing surface than the 3.7 watts/cm^2. > > Walla, ZPE OU. :-) > > Regards, Frederick Well see, there you go. Worked for Admiral Rumsfeld's cannons, why not for our coffee heaters? Coffee machines. Whooda guessed it. You've also solved the mystery of why the Mr. Fusion generator strapped to the back of the DeLorean looked so much like a Mr. Coffee machine. All they had to do in the future was change the label and run it in Pi-Notch mode. (With apologies to Dr. Brown - er, I mean Swartz) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 18:17:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA16287; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:16:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:16:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990916091623.009f8100 cyllene.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: jwinter cyllene.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:16:23 +0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: John Winterflood Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <01beffbb$8f7884c0$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CAIUi2.0.P-3.oJ4ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30339 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: George Holz wrote: >Does anyone know of an experiment that shows that actual radiation is >quantized, as opposed to the emission or absorption mechanism of its >interaction with matter? This may not be quite what you were after, but I found this case enlightening at least - and that is PET or Positron Emission Tomography. In this technique a positron emitting radioactive substance attached to some suitable molecule is given to a patient which then lodges preferentially in the area to be imaged (ie a brain tumor or whatever). When positrons are emitted they are rapidly annihillated within fractions of a millimetre and turn into a pair of gamma rays which blast out in opposite directions. High resolution position detector arrays around the area pick up pairs of hits by their timing coincidence. A straight line drawn between the two detection points pass through the annihilation site and when enough hits have been registered an image is obtained. So this indicates that after a pair of gamma ray photons are generated they "independently" travel almost perfectly in opposite directions until they hit the detector array, and are detected in a very localised area. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 18:31:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA21387; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:30:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:30:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:34:42 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990916091623.009f8100 cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_MlAI1.0.4E5.fW4ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30340 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear John and Vo., I do not think quantization takes place is ALL instances and under ALL conditions. Are you going to specify a set of conditions, first? How, specifically BBGB do you define quantization? OR: Do you not care at this point, you just need a start point J On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, John Winterflood wrote: > George Holz wrote: > >Does anyone know of an experiment that shows that actual radiation is > >quantized, as opposed to the emission or absorption mechanism of its > >interaction with matter? > > This may not be quite what you were after, but I found this case > enlightening at least - and that is PET or Positron Emission > Tomography. In this technique a positron emitting radioactive > substance attached to some suitable molecule is given to a > patient which then lodges preferentially in the area to be imaged > (ie a brain tumor or whatever). When positrons are emitted they > are rapidly annihillated within fractions of a millimetre and turn > into a pair of gamma rays which blast out in opposite directions. > High resolution position detector arrays around the area pick up > pairs of hits by their timing coincidence. A straight line drawn > between the two detection points pass through the annihilation > site and when enough hits have been registered an image is > obtained. > > So this indicates that after a pair of gamma ray photons are > generated they "independently" travel almost perfectly in > opposite directions until they hit the detector array, and > are detected in a very localised area. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 18:33:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA22555; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:32:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:32:20 -0700 Message-ID: <37DFD348.901 ca-ois.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:11:36 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <37DA603B.74F7 ca-ois.com> <37DBE2EF.4E9D ca-ois.com> <3.0.1.32.19990915091628.0107f6d4@mail.eden.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------76766A984704" Resent-Message-ID: <"4AFVQ3.0.LW5.ZY4ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30341 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------76766A984704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vorts, What appears in the attschment below is a paraphrase of Mendel Sachs' theory of light propagation, which tries to show that it is not necessary to believe in "photons". Jim Ostrowski --------------76766A984704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="THEORY2.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="THEORY2.TXT" Erwin Schrodinger (1887-1961) believed that the experimental verification of the wave nature of the electron ,was in fact a more fundamental expression of the electromagnetic variable than normally appears in Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism. These are the charge and current density field variables . Maxwell's equations do not explicitly predict the wave nature of a "matter field" (postulated by Descartes, which suggests that the `things' composing the material universe are modes of a continuous field , distinguishable as people,planets ,rocks and galaxies as are vortices in a turbulent fluid). On the other hand , this wave nature of the matter field is implicit in the source terms that predict the electric and magnetic fields of force that a radiating (emitting) mass exerts upon another (absorbing) mass. Planck had earlier discovered the discontinuity of the energy exchanged when "light" (various incoherent frequencies of EM radiation) is transferred between interacting atoms of matter. Schrodinger's contribution to the overall view was that the energy values could be described as continuous , and not discrete , when a RESONANT (coherent, single frequency) condition was met. In this view then ,it is the energy and frequency TRANSFER BETWEEN INDIVIDUAL "ATOMS" that is discrete, and not the energy values themselves. Schrodinger's arguments can be summed up as follows: If v(e) is the frequency component of an electric charge distribution at some initial time, and if v(e)' is it's frequency component after the charge distribution has transferred this frequency to some other mass, and if the corresponding frequency components of the absorbing mass are v(a)' (after absorption) and v(a) (before absorption), then the rule that relates the frequency transfer between coupled emitting and absorbing resonating elements is: v(e) - v(e)' = v(a)' - v(a) Note that the frequencies referred to are not associated with any single particle of a system. They are rather the normal modes of oscillation of a system taken as a whole. For those who find it necessary to believe in the idea of quantum "jumps" between individual atoms , it is pointed out that one merely has to multiply both sides of the equation by Planck's constant, h ,then use the definition of the quantized energy ,E = hv , to arrive at the relation having to do with `energy conservation': E(e) - E(e)' = E(a)' - E(a) The point here is that one need not postulate a fundamental atomistic model for charged matter in order to formulate a complete theory of the interaction of resonant (mutually coupled) systems.In fact, using Schrodinger's model , one can reduce any material element to it's predetermined properties of resistance , capacitance and inductance per unit of mass to determine it's normal modes of electrical vibration most conducive to energy transfer. --------------76766A984704-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 15 18:41:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25755; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:39:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:39:54 -0700 Message-ID: <19990916013952.43488.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.56.128.132] From: "e lewis" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: i have a question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:39:52 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"nXZJb1.0.GI6.ff4ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30342 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, Thank you. Ed ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 05:48:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA16117; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:46:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:46:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:51:08 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Who... Who wrote the paraphrase? Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37DFD348.901 ca-ois.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uvC8n1.0.kx3.oQEut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30343 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jim, Who wrote the paraprhase? Please. John On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > Vorts, > > What appears in the attschment below is a paraphrase of Mendel Sachs' > theory of light propagation, which tries to show that it is not > necessary to believe in "photons". > > Jim Ostrowski > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 06:48:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA01079; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:47:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:47:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37E0F603.DC4 ca-ois.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:52:03 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: John Schnurer Subject: Re: Who... Who wrote the paraphrase? Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n2A-u1.0.iG.QJFut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30344 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > > Dear Jim, > > Who wrote the paraprhase? Please. > I think we can attribute it to Sachs himself, I had a couple of his books "General Relativity and Matter" and "Einstein versus Bohr, the continuing Controversies in Physics" Borrowed from the library and took carefull notes, copying passages that seemed to summarise an idea of his and were critical as to specificity of meaning. There may be some emphasis I added in places but the basic structure and formulas are his. Sorry I do not have my original notes anymore except other parts which I transposed to ascii, so I can't say which book this is from. Jim From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 07:37:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA18282; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:35:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:35:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:39:02 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990911155752.0090e4e0 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990911141732.00f2d820 inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: magneticenergy.com Resent-Message-ID: <"mihQc2.0.aT4.t0Gut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30345 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think it was Scott Little who posted the URL http://www.magneticenergy.com . I spent several hours looking the site. I then wrote an email to info . I inquired as to whether they had any working machines that I could come and see. I also asked if they had kits available. The author's adgenda seems to be saving the world from the evils of electricity. I told him that I am working with a ministery that wants to feed the hungry and bring peace to the middle east. I noted that several of the machines, particularly the water pump and the water purifier would be useful in accomplishing this. I concluded by saying that he was either a full step ahead of everyone else or else a potential Nebula Award nominee. I just received a reply. The man mentioned resistance to this technology as the reason that they were not demonstrating working models of these machines. Does anyone know anything about this? Thomas Malloy From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 09:15:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA26727; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:13:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:13:20 -0700 Message-ID: <37E118C8.3D6E ca-ois.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:20:25 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <3.0.1.32.19990915171033.01083858 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-swEy3.0.XX6.VSHut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30346 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: (snip) " Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength always comes in packages > that contain 12.4 keV of energy." Excellent experiment Scott..Did you do this and if not can you give a reference? This is a real clue then. I'll work on this for a while. Thank you much. Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 09:28:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00988; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:28:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37E11AF9.1870DA92 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:29:45 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: magneticenergy.com References: <3.0.5.32.19990911141732.00f2d820 inforamp.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> <388428168.936637528458.JavaMail.root web01_mc.iname.net> <3.0.5.32.19990907222135.010c42f0 inforamp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QMltz2.0.MF.TgHut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30347 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: thomas Malloy wrote: > > I think it was Scott Little who posted the URL > http://www.magneticenergy.com . I spent several hours looking the site. I > then wrote an email to info . I inquired as to whether they had any > working machines that I could come and see. I also asked if they had kits > available. The author's adgenda seems to be saving the world from the evils > of electricity. I told him that I am working with a ministery that wants to > feed the hungry and bring peace to the middle east. I noted that several of > the machines, particularly the water pump and the water purifier would be > useful in accomplishing this. I concluded by saying that he was either a > full step ahead of everyone else or else a potential Nebula Award nominee. > > I just received a reply. The man mentioned resistance to this technology as > the reason that they were not demonstrating working models of these > machines. Does anyone know anything about this? All talk and no action. See: http://home.earthlink.net/~wizzard9/ or http://www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/ The latter one was the subject of the cover story of "Science & Mechanics" magazine in the spring 1980 issue. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 10:08:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA13149; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:06:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:06:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990916131118.00b62140 spectre.mitre.org> X-Sender: eachus spectre.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:11:18 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Robert I. Eachus" Subject: Re: Energy Sucking Antennas/ Robert In-Reply-To: <19990904011102.16292.qmail hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"wXUGQ2.0.HD3.nEIut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30348 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:11 PM 9/3/1999 PDT, Peter Aldo wrote: >Thanks again, Robert. I still can't figure out what the choke is for in the >first place, though. Why can't I just directly charge the capacitor? >Are you familiar with Tesla's atmospheric energy collector. The patent used >a large sheet of metal covered with a layer of insulation instead of an >antenna. I'm trying to figure out if this would work better than a simple >antenna. I'm confused as to what purpose the insulation serves on Telsa's >collector. Any help would be appreciated. I really plan to try this, but I >need to collect more info first. I already know where to get a huge roll of >insulated cable for dirt cheap. Pete In both cases you have to remember that you are in the domain of electrostatics, not electrodynamics, and trying to stay there. The purpose of the choke is to prevent ringing in the circut from causing a significant change in the potential of the ant enna. The insulator in Telsa's apparatus is apparently there for the same reason. You are very definitely NOT trying to draw lighting from the sky with thousands of amperes of current. You want to draw the same power slowly over a period of time. Have you ever seen pictures of leader currents going upward from the ground and 'leading' a strike down? You don't want that, and the choke can prevent the leader current from exceeding the breakdown voltage of the atmosphere. This is a very good thing! Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 10:15:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15662; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:11:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:11:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990916121106.00d473c4 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:11:06 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37E118C8.3D6E ca-ois.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990915171033.01083858 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MT3Jp2.0.eq3.FJIut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30349 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:20 AM 9/16/99 -0700, Jim Ostrowski wrote: >" Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength always >comes in packages > that contain 12.4 keV of energy." > >Excellent experiment Scott..Did you do this and if not can you give a >reference? Yes, I have performed this experiment. Also, as I mentioned, this "experiment" happens inside a wavelength dispersive x-ray spectrometer every time it is used. Philips has a little web tutorial: http://www.rrz.uni-koeln.de/math-nat-fak/mineral/html/instrument/xrf.htm There are a few good books about this sort of thing. I happen to have "Principles and Practice of X-Ray Spectrometric Analysis", Eugene P. Bertin, Plenum Press. But most of the book is wrapped up in the details of how to get high resolution, good geometric efficiency, and the complex relationship between measured x-ray intensities and the actual composition of the sample, etc. They don't spend any time explaining WHY E = h*nu, they just state it and move on. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 10:21:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20131; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:20:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:20:09 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:24:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Who... Who wrote the paraphrase? Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37E0F603.DC4 ca-ois.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jpgDM3.0.Sw4.8RIut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30350 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jim, ( Or anyone with computer tools, please) I would like to comment on the paraphrase..but it is an attachment... I don't have a mechanism to do ANYTHING with it, move it, append it ... nothing. If you could put it up, please, as part of the main ascii part of letter, I thank you On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > John Schnurer wrote: > > > > Dear Jim, > > > > Who wrote the paraprhase? Please. > > > > I think we can attribute it to Sachs himself, I had a couple of his > books "General Relativity and Matter" and "Einstein versus Bohr, the > continuing Controversies in Physics" Borrowed from the library and took > carefull notes, copying passages that seemed to summarise an idea of his > and were critical as to specificity of meaning. There may be some > emphasis I added in places but the basic structure and formulas are > his. Sorry I do not have my original notes anymore except other parts > which I transposed to ascii, so I can't say which book this is from. > > Jim > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 10:27:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23764; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:26:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:26:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:30:17 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: WHY Hu (SCOTT) Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990916121106.00d473c4 mail.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZVS7Z.0.9p5.dWIut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30351 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Scott and Vo., On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Scott Little wrote: > Yes, I have performed this experiment. Also, as I mentioned, this > "experiment" happens inside a wavelength dispersive x-ray spectrometer > every time it is used. Philips has a little web tutorial: > > http://www.rrz.uni-koeln.de/math-nat-fak/mineral/html/instrument/xrf.htm WHY WHY E = h*nu, > Given: E= Everything h= human [s] * = wildcard or anything nu= new or unusual Humans will always be curious about everything/ especially things they cannot directly see or observe .... Angstrom units are VERY small I think that about covers it, Scott, can you please expand on this ... or any Vo? > > Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little > Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA > 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 11:50:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA24594; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:47:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:47:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990916134715.010843e8 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:47:15 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: off Vortex In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990916121106.00d473c4 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Zy7Ej3.0.706.QjJut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30352 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:30 PM 9/16/99 -0400, you wrote: >WHY E = h*nu, >> > Given: > > E= Everything > h= human [s] > * = wildcard or anything > nu= new or unusual > > Humans will always be curious about everything/ especially things >they cannot directly see or observe .... > Angstrom units are VERY small > > I think that about covers it, Scott, can you please expand >on this ... or any Vo? I'm confused, John. Are you telling me you aren't familiar with the expression E = h*nu? If so, I'd be glad to explain it to you. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 12:08:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA32528; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:07:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:07:37 -0700 Message-ID: <19990916190704.30085.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.155] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Gravity Paradigm Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:07:02 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"NBJIk3.0.Ay7.v_Jut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30353 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone! Some may remember my visit last year about this time. We had a good talk and it led to many new things. My work was taken to Washington DC by the March fo Peaceful Energy and the DOE invited me to apply for a grant to set up a business. I wrote back them and said I have given my information freely to all and was not trying to set up a business. I just want science to review and test my concept, then announce the results. They never wrote back, even when I tried a couple more times. For those who don't know, my work on this began 22 years ago when I wrote "The Crossroads" and sent it to NASA. This led to other contacts and my search for "The Holy Grail". A little over two years ago I began my work on the internet, and now have thousands of archived pages up. It has been a very interesting experience. :) Recently my work has been announced as a new and unique version of work done by Viktor Schauberger and added to Viktor Schauberger's Vortex World in Sweden. The Swedes have noted a test of principle model showing the action I describe in some old work done on a water cleaning system. On the web my work predicted the action of frame dragging before the work of Luigi Stella and others was announced. My work predicted the unaccounted for energy of motion of spiral galaxies in Vera Rubin's work before it was announced. And most recently my work predicted the non-curved, "mysterious anti-gravity", "Cosmic Triangle", announced by Princeton and Berkeley in Bachall's and Perlmutter's recent press release. What is it? Most of you already know. It is Whirlpower. Like Kaku recently said, "our passage from a 0 to a 1 civilization will probably be something so simple it is just no one ever thought about it before". Whirlpower is very simple. The Swedes say, "it just seems no one ever thought about it before". This is mainly due to our thermodynamic paradigm. But in Bachall's and Perlmutter's "Cosmic Triangle" they show Einsten was right about the gravity constant to start off with. I have found the mistake he made was thinking gravity attracted light and that space was a void. The modern data points to a fluid space. He stated that "his theory hinged" on the accuracy of prediction of 1.75 seconds of an arc in the observed refraction of light in the gravity telescope. It has never met that measurment. Science has danced around it with so called error bars but the dance is over. I have a new website up and my concept of "The Holy Grail". I invite any to try the experiment. I invite any to show me any data where a whirlpool has been built and tested by science. I invite you all into the "Age of Aquarius". David Dennard "the hardest working man in dreamland" http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 12:36:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA09148; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:35:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:35:07 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:39:20 -0400 Message-ID: <01bf007b$2b8f4410$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"KpjWX.0.nE2.hPKut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30354 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott wrote: >To be sure, some excitation of the target atoms occurs but >let's ignore that and focus on the radiation emitted by the high-speed >electrons when they are stopped: bremsstrahlung. - Great, this looks like it may be a source of unquantized high energy radiation. - >When an x-ray strikes the >detector, it scatters around in the Si lattice and delivers all of its >energy to these electrons. - The original xray "photon" scatters around the Si lattice losing a little of its energy at a time to electrons while still staying trapped in the Si crystal? Does its frequency gradually decrease as it gives up energy? This model does not seem possible to me. Could the xray be interacting with a single Si atom and the resulting lower energy radiation be degraded by additional interactions until an appropriate number of electrons are excited into the conduction band. The exact nature of this interaction is critical if it is to be used to prove the quantum nature of the incident radiation. - >Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength >always comes in packages that contain 12.4 keV of energy. - Or at least 1 Angstrom EM radiation always interacts with certain detectors in packages that contain 12.4 KeV of energy. - Thanks for the very interesting example, but I need a little more clarification to be convinced. - John Winterflood wrote: >So this indicates that after a pair of gamma ray photons are >generated they "independently" travel almost perfectly in >opposite directions until they hit the detector array, and >are detected in a very localized area. - I don't think that I have any problem with the quantized nature of particle decays. You are right that this case is enlightening about the nature of particle decay EM emission. - Regards, George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 13:45:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02973; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:44:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:44:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990916154326.01081408 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:43:26 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <01bf007b$2b8f4410$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"upiuV2.0.Mk.MQLut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30355 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:39 PM 9/16/99 -0400, George Holz wrote: >The original xray "photon" scatters around the Si lattice losing a >little of its energy at a time to electrons while still staying trapped in >the Si crystal? Does its frequency gradually decrease as it gives up >energy? This model does not seem possible to me. Could the xray be >interacting with a single Si atom and the resulting lower energy radiation >be degraded by additional interactions until an appropriate number of >electrons are excited into the conduction band. The exact nature of >this interaction is critical if it is to be used to prove the >quantum nature of the incident radiation. OK, I was guessing. Here's what Bertin says in "Principles and Practice of X-ray Spectrometric Ananlysis" on page 249. He's talking about an x-ray that has entered the detector's sensitive volume: "Eventually, it undergoes photoelectric absorption by a silicon atom and imparts its energy to a photoelectron, which produces electron-hole pairs along its path until its energy is expended. This is the basis for proportionality in the Si(Li) detector. Each such ionization extracts ~3.8 eV [I was off a bit with my 2 ev figure] from the photoelectron. The applied bias potential results in the collection of these electron-hole pairs and the total charge collected is linearly proportional to the x-ray photon energy E." I guess I don't see why the nature of this interaction is important. It seems sufficient that the detector accurately measures the energy content of the photon. >>Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength >>always comes in packages that contain 12.4 keV of energy. >- >Or at least 1 Angstrom EM radiation always interacts with certain >detectors in packages that contain 12.4 KeV of energy. How could the Si(Li) detector, which is perfectly capable of detecting photons with ANY energy throughout its working range (1 keV - 100 keV), possibly impose such restrictions the incoming radiation? Do you suspect that 1 Angstrom radiation actually comes in, say, 3.1 keV packages and that the detector waits for 4 of them to arrive before permitting any ionizations to take place!? Please keep in mind another important aspect of this business of x-ray detection. The energies are so high that the photons are individually detectable. We can turn down the x-ray intensity until the photons are coming at an average rate of 1 per minute if you like. Every time the counter clicks, you can look over at the charge meter and exclaim, "Damn, another one with 12.4 keV of energy! Since we've had our analyzing crystal set to pass only radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength, I've never seen any other energy except 12.4 keV!" Your sidekick might then remark, "Wait! Remember that time last year when we saw one with 24.8 keV!?". To which you reply tiredly, "Yes, but we later figured out that was just a coincidental arrival of two photons at once." BTW, at high count rates in an x-ray analyzer a small "sum" peak appearing at precisely twice the energy of a strong peak in the spectrum is a common artifact. If you're interested I can demonstrate this with my XRF analyzer system. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 14:18:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15059; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:16:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:16:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:15:58 -1000 Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909161716540.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"jGlMC2.0.Dh3.OuLut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30356 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott - Is it just me or are all these arguments about energy levels ultimately circular? Those incoming photons had to come from somewhere - matter which emmited them in quantized energies which ordinary matter can recognize. So all detectors will routinely pick up only those photons having just those energies. Either those represent *all* possibly existing energy states (what I take is the mainstream view), or there are unknown numbers of photons from unknown processes with partial energies blowing through ordinary matter all day long without interacting, and are thus forever out of reach of all detectors comprised of normal matter (the crackpot neo-classical view hoped for by people like myself). Is the question about somehow 'tuning' normal matter to interact with partial quantum levels? Have there been other detection schemes to find if such photons exist? Does this somehow impinge on the Mills' work - hydrinos sitting practically undetectable at some odd energy level? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 14:54:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA25853; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:52:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:52:50 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:56:35 -0400 Message-ID: <01bf008e$58470a70$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"MUAQB1.0.tJ6.oQMut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30357 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott quotes Bertin's book on X-ray absorption in SiLi detectors: >"Eventually, it undergoes photoelectric absorption by a silicon atom and >imparts its energy to a photoelectron, which produces electron-hole pairs >along its path until its energy is expended." - OK , I think this model sounds reasonable. - >I guess I don't see why the nature of this interaction is important. It >seems sufficient that the detector accurately measures the energy content >of the photon. - Accurate yes, but does it prove that there was a photon before the resonant ("energy sucking antenna") absorption at the Si atom. We know that the atom can only absorb this frequency of radiation in units of of this quanta of energy. We know that the energy had a wave nature before the adsorption, as it was diffracted by the crystal. This is very similar to visible wavelength photoelectric effect. Photomultplier tubes have no problem detecting single "photons", but do not prove that the energy was quantized before absorption. I could say that the diffraction proves that the "photon" did not exist as a discrete unit prior to absorption. - >How could the Si(Li) detector, which is perfectly capable of detecting >photons with ANY energy throughout its working range (1 keV - 100 keV), >possibly impose such restrictions the incoming radiation? - By being a resonant absorber, with allowed energy transitions that are a function of the wavelength absorbed. - > Do you suspect >that 1 Angstrom radiation actually comes in, say, 3.1 keV packages and that >the detector waits for 4 of them to arrive before permitting any >ionizations to take place!? - No, I suspect that it is simply classical EM radiation. If almost all sources and absorbers of high energy EM are of a quantum nature, it is natural to assume that photons are quantized, but this is not necessarily correct. I should also note that some strange situations arise when you apply quantum considerations to low frequency EM, as in the fractional cycle emission of quanta discussed earlier in this thread. > >Please keep in mind another important aspect of this business of x-ray >detection. The energies are so high that the photons are individually >detectable. We can turn down the x-ray intensity until the photons are >coming at an average rate of 1 per minute if you like. - You could rephrase this as, we can turn down the x-ray intensity until the EM radiation intensity is causing a resonant adsorption at an average rate of 1 per minute if you like. - > Every time the >counter clicks, you can look over at the charge meter and exclaim, "Damn, >another one with 12.4 keV of energy! Since we've had our analyzing crystal >set to pass only radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength, I've never seen >any other energy except 12.4 keV!" Your sidekick might then remark, "Wait! >Remember that time last year when we saw one with 24.8 keV!?". To which >you reply tiredly, "Yes, but we later figured out that was just a >coincidental arrival of two photons at once." > >BTW, at high count rates in an x-ray analyzer a small "sum" peak appearing >at precisely twice the energy of a strong peak in the spectrum is a common >artifact. If you're interested I can demonstrate this with my XRF analyzer >system. - All of this behavior is exactly what would be expected with either model! - Floyd is blowing pretty hard outside, so I'm leaving the office now. - Regards, George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 15:28:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06259; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:27:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:27:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990916172635.01086488 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:26:35 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <199909161716540.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UpsC72.0.eX1.3xMut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30358 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:15 AM 9/16/99 -1000, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Is it just me or are all these arguments about energy levels ultimately >circular? Those incoming photons had to come from somewhere - matter which >emmited them in quantized energies which ordinary matter can recognize. I tried to avoid this by using an x-ray tube in which high-speed electrons crash into a target and each one emits some EM radiation due simply to the fact that a charge was accelerated, which apparently has nothing to do with any quantized atomic energy levels. The bremstrahllung spectrum emitted by such a tube is a broad, smooth smear of wavelengths like this: i | . n | . . t | . . e | . . n | . . s |. . . i |___________________________________.___________ t ^ frequency (energy) y The electrons arriving at the target in the tube are essentially monoenergetic. However, the collisions with the target are quite varied. Usually, the incoming electron loses only a fraction of its energy in the first collision so it emits a longer wavelength (lower energy) radiation. The sharp endpoint in the spectrum (^) corresponds to the shortest wavelength EM radiation that can possibly be created by decelerating such an electron: the electron stops in one collision and all of its K.E. goes into one photon. >...or there are unknown numbers of photons from >unknown processes with partial energies blowing through ordinary matter all >day long without interacting, and are thus forever out of reach of all >detectors comprised of normal matter (the crackpot neo-classical view hoped >for by people like myself). Hey! don't leave me out...:) I don't know about any of that tuning stuff but I like to think that the EM radiation that comprises the zero-point field is somehow different than regular photons. In fact, I can argue that it needs to be much less energetic (for a given wavelength) than photons. For example, consider the hydrogen molecule. It is said (by ZPE enthusiasts such as ourselves) that the reason the ground state of this molecule contains hbar*omega/2 of energy (omega being the oscillation freq. of the vibrational mode of the molecule) is that the molecule is in dynamic equilibrium with the zero-point field, which also contains precisely hbar*omega/2 of energy at that frequency. Now, my picture of this equilibrium is naively one of a fairly steady energy level with only minor emissions (due to the radiation that one would expect to accompany oscillating charges) balanced perfectly by minor absorptions from the zero point field. If this is the case, then the amount of energy contained in each such transaction must be FAR less than a full photon's worth. After all, the ground state only contains a half-photon's worth of energy to start with. So, I guess I'm not unsympathetic with the view that photons are somehow quantized by matter interactions. This bears more thought. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 16:27:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29086; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:24:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:24:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990916191507.01149130 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:15:07 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990916172635.01086488 mail.eden.com> References: <199909161716540.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"nPyKR2.0.N67.umNut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30359 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:26 PM 9/16/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: The bremstrahllung spectrum emitted by >such a tube is a broad, smooth smear of wavelengths like this: > > >i | . >n | . . >t | . . >e | . . >n | . . >s |. . . >i |___________________________________.___________ >t ^ frequency (energy) >y Actually, it does not. Bremsstrahlung has superimposed upon the above the characteristic spectra of the target atoms. There is a figure in the cited article. "Outer bremsstrahlung Emission Spectrum Bremsstrahlung, described by a theoretical energy spectrum and angular distribution (14,15,16), has an observed power output spectrum (confer figure 1) as a function of the emitted photon energy. The output spectral curves are continuous, but also contains characteristic material-specific photon peaks (lines) superimposed. The latter occurs from the displacement of lower-lying electrons in the target and the subsequent refilling of those orbitals." [Swartz, M, G. Verner, "Bremsstrahlung in Hot and Cold Fusion", J New Energy, 3, 4, 90-101 (1999)] other refs: 14. L.I. Schiff, Phys. Rev. 83.2, 252 (1951) 15. J. L. Matthews and R. O. Owens, N.I.M. 157-168 (1973) 16. Johns,H.E., Cunningham, "The Physics of Radiology", Charles C. Thomas Publisher, Springfield, 1953. 17. Heitler, W., The Quantum Theory of Radiation", Oxford Clarendon Press (1954) 18. Adler, R.B., L. J. Chu, R.M.Fano, "Electromagnetic Energy Transmission and Radiation", Wiley & Sons, Inc., NY (1966) 19. Jackson, J.D., "Classical Electrodynamics", Wiley & Sons, Inc., NY (1962) Hope that helps. Heitler, Johns and either Adler or Jackson are "must have" books IMO. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 16:27:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA29859; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:26:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:26:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990916191642.0114f390 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:16:42 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: AFFIDAVIT: THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN WORKS In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990910233941.00975eb0 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990910111944.00868200 world.std.com> <3.0.1.32.19990910100109.00f3bd78 mail.eden.com> <3.0.1.32.19990909154442.0107aa14 mail.eden.com> <199909091540.IAA30013 smtp.asu.edu> <3.0.5.32.19990908233705.0097a100 mail.eden.com> <199909090420.VAA13441 smtp.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"HUOtz2.0.TI7.ToNut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30360 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:39 PM 9/10/99 -0500, Scott Little wrote: >At 11:19 AM 9/10/99 -0400, Mitchell Swartz wrote: >>where does your rexamination of >>YOUR own past investigations rate on your "list"? > >Depends on essentially the same factors that rate new projects. If >promising new data surfaces, such as Mizuno's recent confirmation of his >excess heat results using water-flow calorimetry, we'll reopen an old >investigation immediately. The matter was correcting your own errors which superimpose upon what you measured. They are ignored with the peril of repeating the errors again. =========================================================== >Regarding the beads: It's a complex situation with many factors >involved....but the deck is clearly stacked against them. CETI's going >nowhere with beads (apparently), Cravens has quit working with beads, >Miley's transmutation results with beads look incorrect to us, etc. Your >analysis of our bead results showed an apparent gain at low input power >levels...but the magnitude was within our measurement uncertainty of +/- >0.05 watts, and was likely just an error, not a real signal. Hopefully you >can understand why we continue to feel that further investigation of beads >is unwarranted...at this time. No, Scott, it did NOT exactly say that in the paper. Our analysis did NOT show "an apparent gain at low input power levels...but the magnitude was within our measurement uncertainty". The missing words are "may have" and there were major problems with the study discussed elsewhere. The first paper ["Optimal operating point characteristics of Nickel light water experiments"] said: "This investigation found that the KS-beads may have had a very low level excess heat possibly consistent with the reports of the coated microspheres of which they are a reported copy. What appears as a possible optimal operating point can be seen. At the maximum, the SLKS data indicates ~15+/-15% excess. That is, however, within a serious level of background scatter several standard deviations wide (shown by the upper and lower curves in figure 3). There was a second paper ["The Importance of Controlling Zero-Input Electrical Power Offset", Swartz, M., Verner, G., Journal of New Energy, 3, 1, 14-19 (1998)] carried this further. Additional relevant comments and info in Swartz. M.., "Patterns of Failure in Cold Fusion Experiments", Proceedings of the 33RD Intersociety Engineering Conference on Energy Conversion, IECEC-98-I229, Colorado Springs, CO, August 2-6, (1998) Swartz, M, "Improved Electrolytic Reactor PerformanceUsing pi-Notch System (Optimal Operating Point) Operation and Gold Anodes, Transactions of the American Nuclear Association, Nashville, Tenn Meeting, (ISSN:0003-018X publisher LaGrange, Ill) 78, 84-85 (1998) Swartz. M., "Consistency of the Biphasic Nature of Excess Enthalpy in Solid State Anomalous Phenomena with the Quasi-1-Dimensional Model of Isotope Loading into a Material", Fusion Technology, 31, 63-74 (1997) Swartz, M, "Noise Measurement in cold fusion systems, Journal of New Energy, 2, 2, 56-61 (1997. Hope that helps. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 16:40:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02540; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:39:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:39:21 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <757b480a.2512d984 aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:38:44 EDT Subject: Endostatin & CF To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"gK8Ev1.0.cd.f-Nut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30361 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting item that Jed Rothwell posted re endostatin. Endostatin is getting an unusual break because researchers from the National Cancer Institute "visited Dr. Folkman's lab where they observed his methods, performed the experiments themselves, and achieved "marked suppression of tumor growth,"' according to Dr. Sausville, even though they couldn't replicate Folkman's results when they got back to their own labs. What CF researcher has been able to show visitors his or her methods and have them replicate on site? (I think that there are some CF researchers who could do that, but I'm not sure that they actually have done that.) Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 16:40:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02589; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:39:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:39:32 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:38:47 EDT Subject: Re: Wall Street Journal/Antigravity/Free Energy To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: tekcorman yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Resent-Message-ID: <"51r3J1.0.Ie.p-Nut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30362 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks to Ron Kita for news of the article in the WALL STREET JOURNAL. The URL for this article is http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/retrieve.cgi?id=SB936725183148570434.djm Ron mentioned that the article appeared in section R of the printed edition. Did the print edition of Monday's WSJ really have enough sections to get to the letter R? That would be a lot of sections. Was the whole section about the upcoming Washington Energy Summit? A question for Ron: Ron, what do you think of Randell Mills' proposal for an antigravity device? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 16:40:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02641; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:39:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:39:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:44:03 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Humor Re: off Vortex In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990916134715.010843e8 mail.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tWrXH3.0.Bf.x-Nut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30363 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Scott, I expect to be an important equation. Yes, I would like a BBGB discussion AND: This was some humor Like the high fiber beakfast cereal for mathmaticians with delicate digestions.... Least Mean Squares J On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Scott Little wrote: > At 01:30 PM 9/16/99 -0400, you wrote: > >WHY E = h*nu, > >> > > Given: > > > > E= Everything > > h= human [s] > > * = wildcard or anything > > nu= new or unusual > > > > Humans will always be curious about everything/ especially things > >they cannot directly see or observe .... > > Angstrom units are VERY small > > > > I think that about covers it, Scott, can you please expand > >on this ... or any Vo? > > I'm confused, John. Are you telling me you aren't familiar with the > expression E = h*nu? If so, I'd be glad to explain it to you. > > > > Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little > Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA > 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 16:52:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08557; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:51:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:51:48 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:56:12 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Q: Type of detection Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <01bf007b$2b8f4410$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QyBE01.0.U52.JAOut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30364 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, What, exactly, is the nature of the detector[s] BBGB from particle to transduction to electron [s] to front end... Please Thanks, J On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, George Holz wrote: > Scott wrote: > >To be sure, some excitation of the target atoms occurs but > >let's ignore that and focus on the radiation emitted by the high-speed > >electrons when they are stopped: bremsstrahlung. > - > Great, this looks like it may be a source of > unquantized high energy radiation. > - > >When an x-ray strikes the > >detector, it scatters around in the Si lattice and delivers all of its > >energy to these electrons. > - > The original xray "photon" scatters around the Si lattice losing a > little of its energy at a time to electrons while still staying trapped in > the Si crystal? Does its frequency gradually decrease as it gives up > energy? This model does not seem possible to me. Could the xray be > interacting with a single Si atom and the resulting lower energy radiation > be degraded by additional interactions until an appropriate number of > electrons are excited into the conduction band. The exact nature of > this interaction is critical if it is to be used to prove the > quantum nature of the incident radiation. > - > >Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength > >always comes in packages that contain 12.4 keV of energy. > - > Or at least 1 Angstrom EM radiation always interacts with certain > detectors in packages that contain 12.4 KeV of energy. > - > Thanks for the very interesting example, but I need a little more > clarification to be convinced. > - > John Winterflood wrote: > >So this indicates that after a pair of gamma ray photons are > >generated they "independently" travel almost perfectly in > >opposite directions until they hit the detector array, and > >are detected in a very localized area. > - > I don't think that I have any problem with the quantized nature > of particle decays. You are right that this case is enlightening > about the nature of particle decay EM emission. > - > Regards, > George Holz Varitronics Systems > 732-356-7773 george varisys.com > 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 22:37:15 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA10298; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:36:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:36:32 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:40:57 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Analysing crystalRe: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <01bf008e$58470a70$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jvAc62.0.qW2.WDTut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30365 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How does one "set the analysing crystal" to detect 1 A only? Thanks, J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 16 22:48:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13637; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:47:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:47:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:44:00 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Run 4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9FIqR2.0._K3.aNTut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30366 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Since in my last run I seemed to have a COP of 1.32 from a coffee cup heater, I focused on potential errors, made some changes, and did another run. Here are the changes: (1) I switched to distilled water, so the specific heats and heats of vaporization in my *Handbook* would strictly apply. (2) I switched from measuring the volume of the water to measuring the weight, so I wouldn't have to worry about density changes. (3) I chopped up a styrofoam cup to make my own "peanuts," so I wouldn't have the large amount of water absorption I had in the first 3 runs. Here are the results: Starting temp of water: 26.5 deg. C. Starting weight of water: 200 grams. Starting weight of peanuts: 4 gm. After 369 sec. elapsed, the water temp. hit 99 deg. C. The water then weighed 186 gm. The "peanuts" weighed 9 gm. Analysis: the amount of water in the peanuts was 9 - 4 = 5 gm, so total liquid water at end of run was 186 + 5 = 191 gm. Thus steam emission was 200 - 191 = 9 gm. Heat of vaporization, therefore, was (539.3)(9)(4.185) = 20,313 joules. Heat to boiling was (200)(1)(99 - 26.5)(4.185) = 60,683 joules. E-out = 20,313 + 60,683 = 80,996 joules. E-in = (200)(369) = 73,800 joules. COP = 80,996/73,800 = 1.10, which brings us back into the realm of the mundane. To explain such a result, all we have to assume is that P-in = 80,996/369 = 220 watts, rather than the 200 watts specified on the sales literature. I have been needing to get a power meter anyway, so I am going to do so and test my coffee cup heater to verify that it is, in fact, pulling 220 watts. --Mitchell Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 07:17:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29933; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:16:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:16:37 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:23:30 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Resent-Message-ID: <"TZ5aX2.0.bJ7.4raut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30367 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:15 AM 9/16/99, Rick Monteverde wrote: >Scott - > >Is it just me or are all these arguments about energy levels ultimately >circular? Those incoming photons had to come from somewhere - matter which >emmited them in quantized energies which ordinary matter can recognize. So >all detectors will routinely pick up only those photons having just those >energies. Either those represent *all* possibly existing energy states (what >I take is the mainstream view), or there are unknown numbers of photons from >unknown processes with partial energies blowing through ordinary matter all >day long without interacting, and are thus forever out of reach of all >detectors comprised of normal matter (the crackpot neo-classical view hoped >for by people like myself). > >Is the question about somehow 'tuning' normal matter to interact with >partial quantum levels? Have there been other detection schemes to find if >such photons exist? Does this somehow impinge on the Mills' work - hydrinos >sitting practically undetectable at some odd energy level? Hi, I just signed back on to lurk a while, because I don't have time for comment, but can not resist commenting on this thread, even if I am a bit late. Pardon me if I cover old ground. It seems to me that if E=h*nu then clearly all energy is not quantized, at least not by atomic sized quanta. This is because the doppler effect is based upon relative velocity, and velocity (time and distance) is not quantized at a level corresponding to energy increments from atoms, or quanta of magnetic flux, if at all. Since nearly all matter is in relative motion we can expect that almost no photons absorbed (thus imposing a relative velocity) are containing exact multiples of atomic quanta, due to fine shifts in frequency imposed by the doppler shift. If the wavelength can change in superfine increments, then E=h*nu implies that so does the energy. Some of the energy of an impacting photon is absorbed in the form of kinetic energy, i.e. heat, both of the receiving atom (which gets translated at least in part to phonons if the atom is in a lattice) and possibly of free electrons, including any freed by the incoming photon. If I recall correctly, even some lattice interactions do not rise to the level of the quantized energy of phonons. There are mechanisms for sharing small parcels of energy, in the form of kinetic energy, and in the form of effects on conduction band electrons. When photons are absorbed some goes into a change of quantized state of the absorbing atom, some energy might be re-emitted at a lower energy level (i.e. wavelength) and some is converted to kinetic energy. Free electrons can emit and absorb radiant energy via acceleration, which is not governed by atomic state, thus which can not be quantized, at least not in a manner related to atomic states. Any quantization of radiation from free electron acceleration must be very fine by comparison. It seems to me emissions from an antenna are very finely quantized, if at all. Also of interest is the fact that even atoms do not necessaryily emit and absorb in quantized units. A good example of this is the specra of Rydberg orbitals - special orbitals created in very strong magnetic fields. These orbitals are highly complex paths involving many close passes to the nucleus, many turns about the nucleus, in a single closed orbital. In the outer portions of Rydberg orbitals the electron motion is slow and planetary like, not fuzzy like the typical electron orbital. This is due to cancellation of the parts of the quantum waveform caused by imposition of the strong magnetic field, making occupation of large volumes of the atom off limits, thus giving a concrete orbit like portion of the orbital. The result is a blurring or widening of the spectral lines of atoms containing electrons in Rydberg orbitals. The ionization energy of electrons in these orbitals is very small. They are outermost energy states, not near ground state. I think it is interesting that when a photon is absorbed the momentum must be absorbed also, regardless the relative velocity of the emitter and absorber. It seems quite a trick that both energy and momentum can balance out simultaneously. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 07:41:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA05487; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:40:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:40:23 -0700 Sender: jack mail3.centuryinter.net Message-ID: <37E21B09.5CA85680 mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:42:17 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <3.0.1.32.19990916154326.01081408 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"SXoIP.0.ZL1.NBbut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30368 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott wrote: Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength always comes in packages that contain 12.4 keV of energy ... How could the Si(Li) detector, which is perfectly capable of detecting photons with ANY energy throughout its working range (1 keV - 100 keV), possibly impose such restrictions the incoming radiation? Do you suspect that 1 Angstrom radiation actually comes in, say, 3.1 keV packages and that the detector waits for 4 of them to arrive before permitting any ionizations to take place!? Hi Scott, Your observation is very unnerving, and maybe I subconsciously don't want to understand it. Are you saying that photons from the same source under identical conditions (except, of course, for time) will, in a series of experiments with different detectors, be observed to have different energies? You certainly can't be saying that a 1 Angstrom wavelength has a different energy in a different detector; so are you saying that a different detector will change the wavelength of the photon? Or, are you predicting that all detectors will behave exactly as the Si(Li) detector? Jack Smith From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 07:53:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09789; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:52:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:52:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990917095208.01082dec mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:52:08 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Analysing crystalRe: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: References: <01bf008e$58470a70$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mird-3.0.rO2.8Nbut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30369 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:40 AM 9/17/99 -0400, John Schnurer wrote: >How does one "set the analysing crystal" to detect 1 A only? The xtal works on x-rays like a diffraction grating works on light. You can read about that in any general physics book. In a diffraction grating there are tiny closely-spaced grooves which reflect the light. In the xtal, the rows of atoms function as the grooves. To "set the xtal", you adjust the angle of incidence of the incoming x-rays (by rotating the xtal) so that the extra distance the rays must travel to reach each successive row of atoms in the xtal is an integral multiple (usually 1) of the x-ray wavelength. With this condition satisfied, the wavelength of interest will reflect off the xtal at an exit angle equal to the entrance angle. In order to detect these exiting x-rays, the detector must be able to rotate around the xtal as well. In fact, you want the detector to rotate around the xtal at twice the rate that the xtal itself rotates. Such a mechanism is called a goniometer. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 08:03:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA13528; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:01:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:01:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990917100053.010880b8 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:00:53 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990916191507.01149130 world.std.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990916172635.01086488 mail.eden.com> <199909161716540.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Gbgqc.0.IJ3.HVbut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30370 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In response to my crudely-drawn brem spectrum... At 07:15 PM 9/16/99 -0400, Mitchell Swartz wrote: > Actually, it does not. > Bremsstrahlung has superimposed upon the above >the characteristic spectra of the target atoms. There >is a figure in the cited article. You're technically correct but apparently you missed the earlier part of this thread in which I said: >To be sure, some excitation of the target atoms occurs but >let's ignore that and focus on the radiation emitted by the high-speed >electrons when they are stopped: bremsstrahlung. In fact, by suitable adjustment of tube parameters, it is possible to obtain a spectrum that contains no noticeable characteristic lines and looks just like the ASCII sketch I made. I took such a spectrum using our XRF analyzer this morning. It can be viewed at: http://www.eden.com/~little/xrf/brem.html (only 5 kb) Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 08:32:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA20698; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:28:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:28:41 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990917102752.0108cbbc mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:27:52 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37E21B09.5CA85680 mail.pc.centuryinter.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990916154326.01081408 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9orio.0.J35.fubut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30371 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:42 AM 9/17/99 +0000, Taylor J. Smith wrote: >Your observation is very unnerving, and maybe I subconsciously >don't want to understand it. Are you saying that photons from >the same source under identical conditions (except, of course, >for time) will, in a series of experiments with different >detectors, be observed to have different energies? No. My experience aligns with standard theory: photons of a given wavelength will ALWAYS have the same energy. In this discussion we are exploring the possibility that the operative relationship E = h*nu is not an innate attribute of the radiation but rather something to do with how the radiation interacts with matter. >Or, are you predicting that all detectors will behave exactly as >the Si(Li) detector? Yes, this is my prediction...and my personal observation for 5 kinds of energy-dispersive detectors: NaI scintillator - PM tube: the incoming photon causes the NaI xtal to "scintillate"...i.e. emit light, which is detected by the PM tube. Amount of light is proportional to x-ray energy. Proportional counter: The incoming photon is absorbed in the gas filling of the counter and creates multiple ionizations of the gas. The resulting free electrons are collected on an electrode in the gas. Amount of charge collected is proportional to x-ray energy. Si(Li) detector: incoming photon delivers its energy to an electron which then tears around the Si lattice created electron-hole pairs (i.e. bumping electrons up into the conduction band) until it is stopped. Amount of charge collected is proportional to x-ray energy. Ge(Li) detector: same operation as Si(Li) but made of Ge which has considerably greater stopping power for energetic radiation. HgI2: a relatively new solid-state x-ray detector that operates at near-ambient temperatures and provides resolution nearly as good as Si(Li). Same operation as Si(Li). I have done only a small amount of work personally with wavelength-dispersive systems. I have on hand a LiF analyzing crystal. A while back I set it up in front of an intense source of Ge K x-rays and then placed a dental x-ray film in the exit beam area. To my great delight, the developed film clearly showed the characteristic pattern of the Ge K x-ray signature: a strong K-alpha line accompanied by a weaker K-beta line at slightly shorter wavelength. Even with my crude apparatus, they were clearly resolved. I knew that it SHOULD come out like that, it was just exciting to follow in the footsteps of the pioneer of x-ray analysis, Moseley (in 1913), and see what he saw. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 08:50:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26101; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:43:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:43:42 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990917101832.007abaf0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:18:32 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Endostatin & CF In-Reply-To: <757b480a.2512d984 aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"k5pGp3.0.gN6.j6cut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30372 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Stolper makes an important point: Endostatin is getting an unusual break because researchers from the National Cancer Institute "visited Dr. Folkman's lab where they observed his methods, performed the experiments themselves, and achieved "marked suppression of tumor growth,"' . . . Exactly! They are giving it an unusual break, and they should. What CF researcher has been able to show visitors his or her methods and have them replicate on site? Almost none! That's the problem! That is why CF scientists *do not* get an "unusual break." And you could argue they do not deserve a break. The only CF scientists I know who have demonstrated their experiments are Ohmori, Mizuno and Les Case. They have been replicated by Zhao and SRI respectively. Granted, this is not because Zhao or McKubre attended an open laboratory demonstration. However, it is because these researchers have a positive, constructive, gung-ho attitude and a willingness to share information and promote their work. They reach out beyond the journals, conferences and other traditional channels of communication. Zhao and many other electrochemists in Japan heard about Mizuno because Mizuno has been featured in three articles in a business newsletter "Sentaku" ('Choice'). I do not like to sound like Dale Carnegie, but the fact is, enthusiasm is the key to success. You have to sell yourself. As I have so often said, if Bill Gates had kept his paper-tape BASIC interpreter a secret instead of advertising it and selling copies to all comers, no one would ever have heard of him. He is the richest man on earth because he demonstrates, he markets, and he sells. The CF scientists who say their products are "not ready yet" do not understand markets and business. Nothing could have been less "ready" than the early microcomputer software and hardware which launched the careers of Gates and so many others. The best time to begin selling is when things are not "ready." There is no competition, and the giant establishment corporations selling the older technology do not notice the new technology. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 09:19:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06768; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:15:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:15:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:19:15 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: New Saturna Technologies web Resent-Message-ID: <"RBakx.0.gf1.qacut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30373 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I visited Saturna Technologies website, it is very impressive. Reading through it reminded me of several questions that I would like to pose to the Vortexians. As I understand it, the best that the hot fusion researchers have been able to do with a Tokamak reactor is 85% efficiency in terms of electrical energy in verses electrical energy output. I also noted that the fusion reactions degrade the materials out of which the reactor is constructed. This confirms my opinion of the Tokamak technology which is that it is a large rathole down which the government continues to pore money. I have several C F related questions that I am looking for answers to. I read an article on the Piantelli patent, cold fusion by enharmonic stimulation. It seems like such a promising technology, I'm wondering why the backers abandoned it. I have been studing the works of John E W Keeley, attempting to gain an understanding of what he was doing. When Keeley was doing his research there were no words to describe what he was observing, so he made up his own language, which makes what he said very difficult to understand. It appears that he was producing energy by inducing cavitation however. All of Keeley's phenomena involved the use of frequencies some harmonic and some enharmonic or anharmonic. Dale Pond, who has authored several books on the subject of Keeley technology, has s very interesting website at http://www.svpvril.com/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 11:43:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA26240; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:37:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:37:02 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990917143556.0079b660 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:35:56 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Sci. Am. article about Material Sciences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"mwqWq1.0.qP6.Dfeut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30374 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: M. Eberhart, "Why Things Break," Scientific American, October 1999, p. 66 Interesting quote: ". . . it is not understood why three atoms of hydrogen per million atoms of iron can make normally ductile steel dangerously brittle." Yeah, there are lot of unanswered questions about hydrides. And there are many other mysteries about everyday materials and chemical bonds. Take that, Horgan! The topics covered in this article are important in CF, because CF calls for supersaturated hydrides, and because CF cathodes tend to break apart from stress. The chemical bonds are overcome by electrolysis pressure. Palladium electrolysis cathodes split apart, twist, and bulge out. Glow discharge tungsten cathodes disintegrate into small pieces, presumably because of the heat and electrolysis loading pressure. They do not oxidize, they crumble into pieces. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 12:32:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11016; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:29:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:29:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:33:15 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990917101832.007abaf0 pop.mindspring.com> References: <757b480a.2512d984 aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: Endostatin & CF Resent-Message-ID: <"celZv1.0.0i2.ZQfut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30375 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The best time to begin >selling is when things are not "ready." There is no competition, and the >giant establishment corporations selling the older technology do not notice >the new technology. > >- Jed Brilliant observation Jed! Thomas From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 13:30:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27784; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:27:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:27:29 -0700 From: "George Holz" To: Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:31:40 -0400 Message-ID: <01bf014b$a583b370$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"DKrQD1.0.1o6.mGgut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30376 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott wrote: > >For example, consider the hydrogen molecule. It is said (by ZPE >enthusiasts such as ourselves) that the reason the ground state of this >molecule contains hbar*omega/2 of energy (omega being the oscillation freq. >of the vibrational mode of the molecule) is that the molecule is in dynamic >equilibrium with the zero-point field, which also contains precisely >hbar*omega/2 of energy at that frequency. Now, my picture of this >equilibrium is naively one of a fairly steady energy level with only minor >emissions (due to the radiation that one would expect to accompany >oscillating charges) balanced perfectly by minor absorptions from the zero >point field. If this is the case, then the amount of energy contained in >each such transaction must be FAR less than a full photon's worth. After >all, the ground state only contains a half-photon's worth of energy to >start with. > >So, I guess I'm not unsympathetic with the view that photons are somehow >quantized by matter interactions. This bears more thought. > - I'm glad that you see the need to exchange sub-quantum amounts of energy in order for Hal's ZPE hydrogen ground state stability to operate. It was this consideration that led me, about 6 months ago to think about just when the E = h*nu QM requirement actually applied. Some of the "spooky action at a distance" experiments make more sense if there are no photons, just quantized interactions with matter and classical EM radiation. I have been calling this speculation "classical subquantum physics" as a variant of Mills' name for his TOE (Theory Of Everything). Of course, the quantitization follows from the ZPE mediated orbit stability requirement. - Jim O, did Ralph Sansbury's light pulse experiment get you started thinking about the nature of photons? It seeMs to me that quantized resonant interactions with matter and classical EM explain his results far better than standard QM and discrete photons. - Regards, George Holz Varitronics Systems 732-356-7773 george varisys.com 1924 US Hwy 22 East Bound Brook NJ 08805 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 14:23:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12955; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:20:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:20:14 -0700 Message-ID: <00a401bf0152$315281a0$e2b0883e default> From: "Magic Kent" To: Subject: Brown flock during electrolysis of tap water. Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:32:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF014B.C3972220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"lvEPI3.0.BA3.E2hut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30377 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF014B.C3972220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been running a WFC on High Frequency, high voltage pulse trains. = I have been doing the with normal conductive tap water. After seeing a = comment in a news group last night, I decided to check the resistance of = the cell I had been running. It was greater than 20 Meg Ohms. During = normal running of the cell a lot of brown flock appears, in the = otherwise clear water. When the cell is gassing, it forms a ring around = the meniscus of the water. When the cell is switched off this brown = flock sinks and covers all horizontal surfaces in the cell. I am wondering if the conductive contaminants in the tap = water have now become the brown flock. Can anyone comment on this = please. I would also like to know if this happens during normal = commercial electrolysis of water ?. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF014B.C3972220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have been running a WFC on High = Frequency,=20 high voltage pulse trains. I have been doing the with normal conductive = tap=20 water. After seeing a comment in a news group last night, I decided to = check the=20 resistance of the cell I had been running. It was greater than 20 Meg = Ohms.=20 During normal running of the cell a lot of brown flock appears, in the = otherwise=20 clear water. When the cell is gassing, it forms a ring around the = meniscus of=20 the water. When the cell is switched off this brown flock sinks and = covers all=20 horizontal surfaces in the cell.
           I = am=20 wondering if the conductive contaminants in the tap water have now = become the=20 brown flock. Can anyone comment on this please. I would also like to = know if=20 this happens during normal commercial electrolysis of water ?. Thank=20 you.
------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF014B.C3972220-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 14:34:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA20134; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:33:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:33:47 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990917163301.0108a360 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:33:01 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Brown flock during electrolysis of tap water. In-Reply-To: <00a401bf0152$315281a0$e2b0883e default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"MgZ5A.0.Cw4.vEhut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30378 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:32 PM 9/17/99 +0100, Magic Kent wrote: >>>> When the cell is switched off this brown flock sinks and covers all horizontal surfaces in the cell. My first guess is that the brown stuff is electrode oxide. What are your electrodes made of? Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 15:44:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA10569; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990917173936.00f53250 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:39:36 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: physics trivia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"iV41J3.0.3b2.NFiut" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30379 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I figure that the radius of the earth's orbit is about 2.4 mm greater than it would be if the radiation from the sun did not push on us. Scott From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 17 19:37:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14617; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:36:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:36:33 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01bf017e$a68b0920$0101a8c0 john> From: "John Logajan" To: References: Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:36:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Q6pMS3.0.Ja3.nglut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30380 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > It seems to me that if E=h*nu then clearly all energy is not quantized, at > least not by atomic sized quanta. This is because the doppler effect is > based upon relative velocity, and velocity (time and distance) is not > quantized at a level corresponding to energy increments from atoms, or > quanta of magnetic flux, if at all. Since nearly all matter is in relative > motion we can expect that almost no photons absorbed (thus imposing a > relative velocity) are containing exact multiples of atomic quanta, due to > fine shifts in frequency imposed by the doppler shift. If the wavelength > can change in superfine increments, then E=h*nu implies that so does the > energy. Actually, the finest irreducible granularity of quanta would be if time itself came in irreducible jumps. If time is continuous, all energies are possible. However, photons are still "quanta" or packetized. We know this because although you can vary the brightness of a light source, say a mono-frequency red laser producing either 1 watt or 100 watts, they still both cause the same eV effect on electrons they interact with. In this way we know that brightness is due to many parallel packets, each with its own equal energy (in the case of a mono-frequency laser) and that "packet" energy is determined by color, regardless of brightness. -- - John Logajan -- jlogajan yahoo.com -- 651-633-8918 - - 4234 Hamline Ave; Arden Hills, Minnesota (MN) 55112 USA - _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 03:26:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA02412; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:24:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:24:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37E30A49.6C5E ca-ois.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:43:05 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <01bf014b$a583b370$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7CCF43546BC4" Resent-Message-ID: <"aBCMZ3.0.cb.dXsut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30381 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7CCF43546BC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Holz wrote: > > Jim O, did Ralph Sansbury's light pulse experiment get you started > thinking about the nature of photons? No but I did correspond with him for quite some time about it. I put him in contact with Professor Sachs and Sachs' fellow colleague from the old days Christian Cormier-Delanuoe of Switzerland. Peter Graneau of Oxford tried to replicate Sansbury and failed, but from my perpective as a sort of "communications facilitator" all I can say that is that it appeared to me as if Graneau just plowed ahead with no consultation with Sansbury whatsoever until the announcement that he had tried and failed. He did not even setup the same config or even similar equipment, we learned later. Dr. Sachs was very disappointed. From what I understand this sort of thing is just business as usual in the CF enthusiaast's circle- With the internet these kinds of communication problems should be a thing of the past IMO. I can help because I'm a fair to decent tech illustrator (sample attached to this message). Good old gif format images econmomical of byte space, if anyone out there is interested. I even work pro bono if I am personally interested in the project. Anyway I'm not sure about the "nature of photons" really. I would like everything to be simple, but if it ain't it ain't. How do these quantizations come about? > It seeMs to me that quantized > resonant interactions with matter and classical EM explain his results > far better than standard QM and discrete photons. Yes maybe but Scott's xray spectrometer result is not what I would expect if "quantized resonmant interactions" (with the detector material) are supposed to explain everything. These radiation "packages" suggest actual high frequency discontinuity in the radiation mechanism. If radiation is discontinuous, maybe everything is. We should look at this. Resolve the duality. 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Sparber" To: Cc: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:38:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"zr7Dh3.0.ND1.6nsut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30382 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Intuitively, the omnidirectional Casimir force should cause the creation of a vapor hemisphere at a heated solid-vapor-liquid interface with the heat from the solid-liquid thermal differential, creating the pressurized vapor phase. If the energy of vaporization-pressurization required for formation of a nanobubble is less than the force(Casimir) times distance energy, there should be a ZPF OU effect at a liquid heated-surface interface. I Think. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 04:24:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10104; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:23:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:23:57 -0700 Message-ID: <37E37792.4D3 ca-ois.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:29:22 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <002a01bf017e$a68b0920$0101a8c0@john> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"x9KZO2.0.oT2.BPtut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30383 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Logajan wrote: > > Actually, the finest irreducible granularity of quanta would be if > time itself came in irreducible jumps. If time is continuous, all > energies are possible. > How can time be discontinuous? Are you sure you don't mean "existence" might be discontinuous, in the sense I spoke of earlier, where all motion stops due to the need for an "information" phase in the causality process? My "pet theory" would say is that the information phase occurs at a time between the decelleration of the source particle and the acceleration of the target particle. To re-iterate, the operative concept here would be that there is no information phase that endures for time t=zero. All information must have a cumulative rise, sustain and fall endurance time > 0. Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 04:26:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA10741; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:24:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:24:32 -0700 Message-ID: <37E378C0.63131802 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:34:24 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 17, 1999] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028" Resent-Message-ID: <"hhhLT.0.bd2.kPtut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30384 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from hq.aps.org ([149.28.112.5]) by mail00.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with ESMTP id ru6123.eti.33qs884 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from whatsnew localhost) by hq.aps.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA04109; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909180247.WAA04109 hq.aps.org> To: aki ix.netcom.com From: "What's New" Subject: What's New for Sep 17, 1999 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 17 Sep 99 Washington, DC 1. CTBT: IS THE BIG PUSH NOW COMING FROM HELMS? The prospect of having the test ban, which has strong public support, come up during the election campaign (WN 10 Sep 99) seems to have created a role reversal. Helms, hinting that he has the 34 votes to kill CTBT right now, is talking about a fast track with a vote before Congress leaves town in a few weeks, even though Majority Leader Trent Lott has been insisting up till now that the Senate should not rush to judgement on such an important matter. Now it's the Clinton Administration that wants to slow down a little. 2. MORE CTBT: ANOTHER SUSPICIOUS REPORT ABOUT NOVAYA ZEMLYA. With a vote on CTBT possible, someone in the intelligence community leaked another report to the Washington Times about a suspicious event at the remote Novaya Zemlya test facility. The last time, you may recall, the tremor turned out to be in the ocean (WN 7 Nov 97). The Washington Times, which reported the August '97 "test," now refers to it as "a rare underwater earthquake." It's not known when underwater seismic activity became rare. This week the Washington Times carried another leaked story of an "event" at Novaya Zemlya. Maybe it was a conventional explosion, or an allowed sub-critical test, or even another "rare underwater earthquake," but the object is to imply that we can't verify. 3. BMD: CHINA TESTS MISSILE EQUIPPED WITH BASIC COUNTERMEASURES. It is now just nine months until the promised deployment decision on a National Missile Defense (WN 12 Feb 99). But under the current testing schedule, it will not be known by the promised June 2000 decision date if the system can defeat even the most basic countermeasures. Now, the CIA reports that China has already tested its road-mobile DF-31 missile, equipped with penetration aids including decoys and chaff. These are the two most basic countermeasures and China is expected to share its technology with rogue states including Iran. Until the U.S. has tested NMD against such countermeasures it's difficult to see how the system can be certified to be "technologically possible." 4. KANSAS: MOVES UNDERWAY TO COUNTERACT SCHOOL BOARD ACTION. Linda Holloway, the head of the Kansas School board that removed evolution from the curriculum (WN 13 Aug 99), says she no longer reads her "insult laden" e-mail. Maybe she should; a group of moderate Republicans has targeted her for defeat in next year's election. Meanwhile, the chancellor of the University of Kansas announced formation of a task force on science literacy in education; there are moves underway in the legislature to mandate the teaching of evolution and to limit the power of the school board. One state legislator is planning to introduce a bill that would require students to study evolution to be eligible for admission to a state university. That would also have consequences for students attending private religious schools. THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) --------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 07:21:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA02590; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:20:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:20:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990918102033.0068bc28 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:20:33 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37E37792.4D3 ca-ois.com> References: <002a01bf017e$a68b0920$0101a8c0 john> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"XAEjy1.0.Ne.J-vut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30385 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Ostrowski wonders: >How can time be discontinuous? I don't know, but if it is, we already have a word to describe the irreducible quanta of time: "chronon." I believe Clarke coined that, or popularized it. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 07:35:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA07585; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:34:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:34:03 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990918103432.00689144 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:34:32 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37E30A49.6C5E ca-ois.com> References: <01bf014b$a583b370$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"fF_gS.0.Rs1.RBwut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30386 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This discussion is completely over my head, but during a quick web search I found an an old professor in the Georgia Tech physics department who thinks time comes in "chronon" quanta. - JR http://phweb.physics.gatech.edu/people/faculty/dfinkelstein.html QUOTES: Topic: I work on the synthesis of the fundamental ideas and principles of quantum theory with those of space-time theory. For example we have made quantum network models of the vacuum exhibiting the right basic (relativistic and unitary quark) symmetries and general covariance. We presently test the following principles: Generalized quantum principle: Anything in nature that seems classical (completely describable) is actually a quantum condensation. Mutuality principle: All couplings work both ways. Finiteness principle: The dynamical process is a composite of a finite number of elementary dynamical processes, "chronons," with a time scale size I call tav. The generalized quantum principle implies that the dynamic(al law) too must be a variable, as Newton and many others proposed. If the dynamic is indeed a dynamical variable, who needs any other? Since the dynamic acts on the matter-space-time system, mutuality suggests that the dynamic is one aspect of an underlying quantum matter-space-time-dynamic unity, which I still call the dynamic. . . . He has a paper on ball lightening too: A13 D. Finkelstein and J. Rubenstein, Ball lightning, Physical Review 135, 390-396 (1964) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 08:23:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18746; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:20:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:20:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990918112432.01404c30 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:24:32 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: physics trivia In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990917173936.00f53250 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"izrWO.0.qa4.3twut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30387 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Did that include the absorption of neutrinos? :-) CQ At 05:39 PM 09/17/99 -0500, Scott wrote: >I figure that the radius of the earth's orbit is about 2.4 mm greater than >it would be if the radiation from the sun did not push on us. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 08:46:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA22692; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:40:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:40:44 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990918114445.0142f800 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:44:45 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force Cc: In-Reply-To: <005c01bf01ca$6df29820$82441d26 fjsparber> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oRLYZ3.0.QY5.x9xut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30388 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And IF true, would there not coexist an accompanying gravity [or inertial] disturbance during the phase change? sufficient-- for measurement? Regards, Colin Quinney At 04:38 AM 09/18/99 -0700, Frederick wrote: >Intuitively, the omnidirectional Casimir force should cause the creation >of a vapor hemisphere at a heated solid-vapor-liquid interface with >the heat from the solid-liquid thermal differential, creating the >pressurized >vapor phase. > >If the energy of vaporization-pressurization required for formation of a >nanobubble is less than the force(Casimir) times distance energy, there >should be a ZPF OU effect at a liquid heated-surface interface. > >I Think. :-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 09:38:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA04557; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:35:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:35:07 -0700 Message-ID: <37E3C040.548D ca-ois.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:39:28 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <01bf014b$a583b370$0c6cd626 george.varisys.com> <3.0.1.32.19990918103432.00689144@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o96aR3.0.771.wyxut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30389 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > This discussion is completely over my head, but during a quick web search I > found an an old professor in the Georgia Tech physics department who thinks > time comes in "chronon" quanta. > > - JR > > http://phweb.physics.gatech.edu/people/faculty/dfinkelstein.html > > QUOTES: > > Topic: > I work on the synthesis of the fundamental ideas and principles of quantum > theory with those of space-time theory. Well, Jed here's where it starts getting over _my_ head, too. It's bad when you can't get past the first sentence. When this happens to me, however, I tend to become suspicious unlees I know the guy and the experiments upon which he bases his theories. Space-time theory as set forth and explained by "Minkowski Spacetime diagrams" is bogus, IMHO, because it is based on the idea that time itself is relative, rather than universal. When time is supposed to be relative, time travel paradoxes result when faster than light processes are postulated. This is because everything at a distance away from you is alleged to be "recessed in time" by the factor of the length of time it would take light to traverse that distance. This makes the person who proposes such FTl processes become the subject of ridicule when the status quo starts drawing their light cones on the diagram which show that FTL would make it possible to kill your grandfather before you were born. But that's beside the point. If a sentence is incomprehensible after a carefull reading or involves questionable concepts that are represented as facts, beware. > For example we have made quantum > network models of the vacuum exhibiting the right basic (relativistic and > unitary quark) symmetries and general covariance. bla bla bla... This guy would be killed on vortex. (figuratively) Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 09:40:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA05188; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:36:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:36:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000301bf01f3$bbc20a80$fc77883e default> From: "Magic Kent" To: Subject: Re: Brown flock during electrolysis of tap water. Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:53:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4pbJw2.0.-G1.K-xut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30390 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All metal components in the cell are stainless steel and they remain perfectly clean. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Little To: vortex-l eskimo.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: 17 September 1999 23:11 Subject: Re: Brown flock during electrolysis of tap water. >At 08:32 PM 9/17/99 +0100, Magic Kent wrote: >>>>> >When the cell is switched off this brown flock sinks and covers all >horizontal surfaces in the cell. > >My first guess is that the brown stuff is electrode oxide. What are your >electrodes made of? > > > >Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little >Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA >512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 12:08:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16438; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801bf0207$bcc7caa0$7cf1fea9 hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: "VORTEX L" , "freenrg-l" , "Newman-L Mailing List" Subject: How the Newman motors might really work Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:57:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"Mm65I1.0.e04.x7-ut" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30391 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg East Wrote: >I'm convinced that 'fusion' occurs at every energy level...not only at the 'conditions' present within a star, but >perhaps even at temperatures nearing absolute-zero. The conditions just need to be right. >This concept relates to Joe's work also. Joe has spelled out a number of conditions, and shown a number of >configurations of not only motors but systems, both microscopic and macroscopic, which can be explained by >a simple mechanical model involving something he refers to as 'gyroscopic particles'. This model is just >that...a model, and a good model. It is a useful tool in understanding the 'INTERACTIONS' within many, many >systems. All very true. The recent work with the Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC) -based Atom Laser, which uses the wave function of matter to produce an infinate quantum beam, and its corrolary, the newly discovered Quantum Gas http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/09/990910080853.htm prove that all of what we perceive to be solid matter is in fact comprised of dynamically interacting energy formations. To my knowledge, Joe has never attempted to qualify the Gyrotron/"gyroscopic particle" as a solid object, merely as the "mechanical essense" of one; consequently, his use of the term "particle" is not that which the physics priesthood holds to be the case. As an energy vortex, not unlike a miniature hurricaine, such Gyrotrons may yet be discovered to be the primal underlying building block of nature. Such a vortex could exhibit all of the properties Mr. Newman attributes as "gyroscopic particles"; at such a scale, this distinction between matter and energy breaks down to one of subjectively derived human semantics, nature itself has no confusion over the issue. In nature, they are one in the same. If you take a step back from the altar, thus far, the high energy particle physicists have succeeded only in making "debris" as they smash subatomic particles together; an endless stream of [what will probably eventually prove to be] random fragments of pseudomatter. If you smash a glass jar on concrete, you get the same kind of random fragments of debris. You can sort out all the little pieces of glass into subjective categories, based on size, weight, approximate shape (within your powers of observation), sharpness, direction of travel, distance travelled, geometric distribution, angularity, etc., but they are still just random fragments of debris, of no particular meaning. Thus with matter. It is not unlike what those satellite weather photos show as a hurricaine dissipates into clouds without purpose. Like these weather patterns, the ash left from these atom smashers is very short lived. Are these collisions in high energy cyclotrons and linear accelerators merely disrupting the vorticies of the gyrotrons? All of this being the case, I do *NOT* believe that chemical effects at the spark gap play any role in the OU performance of the devices. The spark itself might, as the plasma sheath resonates to frequencies sympathetic with those of the quantum vibration of the universe, and is harmonically amplified. But, Stephan, you know that (A) Chemical processes are not that rapid, (B) The energy liberated from any of the chemical reaction systems available at the commutator as electrodes is insufficient by several orders of magnitude, (C) There is no chemical reaction byproduct, (D) There is no corrosion/diminution of the commutator/electrode surface sufficient to account for the energy release, and (E) No corrosion/diminution of the surface which is any greater than nominal mechanical and electrical wear would account for, that has ever been noted by builders of Newmanesque devices. There is definately a missing dynamic at work here, the pursuit of which must be endlessly frustrating to Mr. Newman, but chemical effects, either at the brass commutator contacts, or within the copper or ferrite core can simply *NOT* account for any of the observed phenomena. Stephan, if you are still convinced of this, take one of your working Newman machines to Berlin Polytechnic and run it in a vacuum chamber, sampling the gases evolved from the arc discharges. Or, if necessary to facilitate the formation of the arc plasma sheath, flood the chamber with nitrogen or helium, to provide an atmosphere with better breakdown potential. These experiments, if done, can conclusively determine the chemistry of back EMF plasma discharge, from the system in question. David L. Wenbert The Great Power & Light Company A Gaian Renaissance Organisation From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 13:01:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25261; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:56:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:56:40 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:56:08 -1000 Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909181556274.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"VOhkF.0.YA6.tv-ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30392 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > If the energy of vaporization-pressurization required for formation of a > nanobubble is less than the force(Casimir) times distance energy, there > should be a ZPF OU effect at a liquid heated-surface interface. If the force were less than the Casimir force, then how could the gas pressure overwhelm it and create a bubble? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 13:50:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA03874; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:42:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:42:42 -0700 Message-ID: <00c301bf021e$771061e0$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <199909181556274.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:39:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"pRkBW2.0.Sy.2b_ut" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30393 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Monteverde To: Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 12:56 PM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force Rick wrote: > Frederick - > > > If the energy of vaporization-pressurization required for formation of a > > nanobubble is less than the force(Casimir) times distance energy, there > > should be a ZPF OU effect at a liquid heated-surface interface. > > If the force were less than the Casimir force, then how could the gas > pressure overwhelm it and create a bubble? Hah! Good question, Rick. :-) IF, the Zero Point Field is fluctuating (oscillating) with a period greater than it takes for a nanobubble to form...... ? Regards, Frederick > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 14:14:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13160; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:13:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:13:19 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:13:11 -1000 Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909181713493.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"2xAFv2.0.TD3.k10vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30394 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick - > F, the Zero Point Field is fluctuating (oscillating) with a period greater > than it takes for a nanobubble to form...... ? Well, there you go. Probably why they're sometimes called "Zero Point Fluctuations". I'm going to tie a bib on my forehead now and go have an ice cream cone. Care to join me? ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 15:46:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02367; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:39:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:39:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:44:22 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , John Schnurer Subject: Q: Does time flow ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WXMNI3.0.va.wI1vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30395 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Anyone have simple BBGB description, model or time? I am NOT looking for equations that declare time is thus because of a mathmatical framework someone developed. I AM looking for something like: Time is like clear gelatin ... and we move through it.... sort of like tomographic slices.... it is somewhat resilient and if "bumped" it goes "higgle-jiggle-jiggle-hig-hig-hig-j-j-j-h-h-h-" until the "bump" finally dies out. The "jello" behind us... the past, "reforms" to be solid again, but sohws sign of a passage,,, and the "jello" in front, the future... is still unmarked. The above is an example, not a description of time Anyone help? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 15:51:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA04135; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:43:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:43:57 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:48:20 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer Reply-To: John Schnurer To: Vortex , Akira Kawasaki Subject: What does CTBT Mean ? New for Sep 17, 1999 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY=------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028 Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"jNTTL3.0.X01.iM1vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30396 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: Dear Folks, What does CTBT stand for? What does it MEAN ?? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:34:24 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 17, 1999] Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:24:32 -0700 Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com --------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Content-Description: Return-Path: Received: from hq.aps.org ([149.28.112.5]) by mail00.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with ESMTP id ru6123.eti.33qs884 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from whatsnew localhost) by hq.aps.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA04109; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909180247.WAA04109 hq.aps.org> To: aki ix.netcom.com From: "What's New" Subject: What's New for Sep 17, 1999 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 17 Sep 99 Washington, DC 1. CTBT: IS THE BIG PUSH NOW COMING FROM HELMS? The prospect of having the test ban, which has strong public support, come up during the election campaign (WN 10 Sep 99) seems to have created a role reversal. Helms, hinting that he has the 34 votes to kill CTBT right now, is talking about a fast track with a vote before Congress leaves town in a few weeks, even though Majority Leader Trent Lott has been insisting up till now that the Senate should not rush to judgement on such an important matter. Now it's the Clinton Administration that wants to slow down a little. 2. MORE CTBT: ANOTHER SUSPICIOUS REPORT ABOUT NOVAYA ZEMLYA. With a vote on CTBT possible, someone in the intelligence community leaked another report to the Washington Times about a suspicious event at the remote Novaya Zemlya test facility. The last time, you may recall, the tremor turned out to be in the ocean (WN 7 Nov 97). The Washington Times, which reported the August '97 "test," now refers to it as "a rare underwater earthquake." It's not known when underwater seismic activity became rare. This week the Washington Times carried another leaked story of an "event" at Novaya Zemlya. Maybe it was a conventional explosion, or an allowed sub-critical test, or even another "rare underwater earthquake," but the object is to imply that we can't verify. 3. BMD: CHINA TESTS MISSILE EQUIPPED WITH BASIC COUNTERMEASURES. It is now just nine months until the promised deployment decision on a National Missile Defense (WN 12 Feb 99). But under the current testing schedule, it will not be known by the promised June 2000 decision date if the system can defeat even the most basic countermeasures. Now, the CIA reports that China has already tested its road-mobile DF-31 missile, equipped with penetration aids including decoys and chaff. These are the two most basic countermeasures and China is expected to share its technology with rogue states including Iran. Until the U.S. has tested NMD against such countermeasures it's difficult to see how the system can be certified to be "technologically possible." 4. KANSAS: MOVES UNDERWAY TO COUNTERACT SCHOOL BOARD ACTION. Linda Holloway, the head of the Kansas School board that removed evolution from the curriculum (WN 13 Aug 99), says she no longer reads her "insult laden" e-mail. Maybe she should; a group of moderate Republicans has targeted her for defeat in next year's election. Meanwhile, the chancellor of the University of Kansas announced formation of a task force on science literacy in education; there are moves underway in the legislature to mandate the teaching of evolution and to limit the power of the school board. One state legislator is planning to introduce a bill that would require students to study evolution to be eligible for admission to a state university. That would also have consequences for students attending private religious schools. THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) --------------A61F0F5D1E0F2BFD950A3028-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 15:52:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA05691; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:48:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:48:37 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:53:05 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: puthoff aol.com Subject: Coffee Cup Heater.. NanoBubbles.. Casimir In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990918114445.0142f800 inforamp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Ohq1J1.0.rO1.5R1vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30397 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How do we get gravity and-or inertia stuff from hot water bubbles?? HUMOR BELOW: AND: THERE BETTER HADN'T NOT BE ANY BLANG HEEPER !!! GRAVITY!!! in my morning COFFEE !!!! it is hard enough to get up ounten th' bed as it is now! On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Colin Quinney wrote: > And IF true, would there not coexist an accompanying gravity [or inertial] > disturbance during the phase change? sufficient-- for measurement? > > Regards, > Colin Quinney > > At 04:38 AM 09/18/99 -0700, Frederick wrote: > >Intuitively, the omnidirectional Casimir force should cause the creation > >of a vapor hemisphere at a heated solid-vapor-liquid interface with > >the heat from the solid-liquid thermal differential, creating the > >pressurized > >vapor phase. > > > >If the energy of vaporization-pressurization required for formation of a > >nanobubble is less than the force(Casimir) times distance energy, there > >should be a ZPF OU effect at a liquid heated-surface interface. > > > >I Think. :-) > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 20:35:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14814; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:33:43 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:38:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Time..Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality In-Reply-To: <37E37792.4D3 ca-ois.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QJK75.0.Jd3.Mc5vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30398 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Why would time, or space or anything else need or have to wait for information? On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > John Logajan wrote: > > > > > Actually, the finest irreducible granularity of quanta would be if > > time itself came in irreducible jumps. If time is continuous, all > > energies are possible. > > > > How can time be discontinuous? Are you sure you don't mean "existence" > might be discontinuous, in the sense I spoke of earlier, where all > motion stops due to the need for an "information" phase in the causality > process? > > My "pet theory" would say is that the information phase occurs at a time > between the decelleration of the source particle and the acceleration of > the target particle. > > To re-iterate, the operative concept here would be that there is no > information phase that endures for time t=zero. All information must > have a cumulative rise, sustain and fall endurance time > 0. > > Jim Ostrowski > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 23:42:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA16053; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:41:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:41:13 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:48:05 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: The Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"6L3PN1.0.lw3.9M8vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30400 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS The purpose here is to determine from some logical basis the fundamental quantum units of mass, length, time, and charge, from which all other physical quantities can be derived. Based upon experience it is reasonable to assume that charge is quantized at a value e, the charge of the electron. Let {Qx} denote the quantum of unit x. Thus we assume and define: {Qe} = e = 1.6021773349 x10^-19 coulombs (1) {Qd} = quantum of distance (2) {Qt} = quantum of time (3) {Qv} = {Qd}/{Qt} = quantum of velocity (4) Assumed constants are: speed of light: c = 299792458 m s^-1 (5) Plank's constant: h = 6.626075540x10^-34 kg m^2 s^-1 (6) Gravitational constant: G = 6.67259(85)x10^-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2 (6a) All constants are from the 74th Edition of the CRC Handbook, thus are from the 1986 CODATA Recommended Values of the Fundamental Physical Constants. The derivations that follow are not necessarily limited to the assumption that space is Euclidian or 3 dimensional, only that the above terms have meaning in one or more dimensions. It might be supposed distance has meaning and is quantized in some dimensions and not others, then the following deductions would only have meaning in the quantized dimensions, but that is beyond the scope of present consideration. It is sufficient here to assume we are talking about conventional 3D Euclidian space. If either time and space are not quantized then all other values involving those units, including energy, can not be quantized, as they are functions of distance and time and Plank's constant h. All physical units can be expressed in the mks system, i.e. as expressions in units of meters, kilograms, and seconds, and charge in coulombs. Since h includes mass, we could feel free to substitute a quantum of h for mass defining quanta. Also note, if we can express the four basic quanta corresponding to distance, time, mass and charge in terms of h, or any other constant, then we have quantified all physical units. This expression of the quanta in terms of h is follows naturally from the assumptions made here and the application of various physical laws. If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that limit is c. We then have: {Qd}/{Qt} = c (7) and thus: {Qd} = c {Qt} (8) In fact, the quantization of space and time provides a reason for the limitation c. If we make the above few assumptions a full quantization of all physical values (in terms of h) falls therefrom. The denial in reality of any deductions that fall from these assumptions denies the assumptions. Now (8) appears to give problems in that: {Qv} = {Qd}/{Qt} = c (9) seeming to imply that everything moves exactly at c! However, to move less than c, say at 0.9 C, we can conclude there is about a 0.1 probability of no motion per each quantum of time advancement. Motion is thus in staggered jumps. The most likely assumption to be denied is the limit on how many units anything can move in a time period. This amount of movement may possibly be determined stochastically and involve motion more that one unit per unit of time. Reconciliation of QM with relativity demands a means of handling the Doppler shift, apparent changes in units of mass time and distance, and the requantization of the resulting shifted energy values upon receipt of a photon. This reconciliation, upon receipt of a photon, appears to happen via stochastic methods, i.e. waveform collapse probabilities, etc. This may be an indication that photon motion is a random walk phenomenon, which would help explain the expansion of photons with time, though it does little to explain interference patterns. It is of interest that a fixed probability of motion per each unit of time is similar in macro effect to motion due to a stochastic function giving a variable number of quanta, but having a mean motion per unit time, depending on speed in the given dimension, thus the determination of which model applies to how the motion is achieved is moot to Newtonian mechanics. Given Plank's: E = h nu = h c/lambda (10) but substituting the smallest value {Qd} for lambda we have a corresponding quantum of energy {Qe}: {Qe} = (h c)/{Qd} (11) {Qe} = h/{Qt} (12) But knowing: E = m c^2 (13) We have the apparent quantization of mass Qm: {Qe} = {Qm} c^2 (14) h/{Qt} = {Qm} c^2 (15) {Qm} = (h/c^2) (1/Qt) = h {Qt}/{Qd}^2 = (h/{Qd}) (1/c) (16) and we have momentum {Qp} given by: {Qp} = {Qm} {Qv} = {Qm} c = (h {Qt}/{Qd}^2) c (17) applying (16): {Qp} = [(h/c^2) (1/{Qt})] c = h/(c {Qt}) = h/{Qd} (18) which corresponds nicely to de Broglie's: p = h/lambda (19) >From (16) {Qm} = (h/{Qd}) (1/c) (21) we have directly: h/c = {Qm}{Qd} (22) Absolute density {Qden} in 3 dimensions is has minimum size given by: {Qden} = {Qm}/{Qd}^3 = [(h/c)/{Qd}]/{Qd}^3 = (h/c)/{Qd}^4 (23) which seems to imply any bodies have a maximum density. For a quantum of angular momentum {Qpa} we can use: {Qpa} = {Qm}{Qv}{Qd} (24) {Qpa} = {Qm}{Qd}/{Qt}{Qd} (25) {Qpa} = {Qm}{Qd}^2/{Qt} (26) or alternately: {Qpa} = {Qm}{Qd} c (27) Looking at (22) further we have: {Qm} = h/c (1/{Qd}) (29) {Qm}{Qd} = h/c = 2.210220879x10^-42 kg m (30) which appears to correspond to a quantum of work {Qwg} in a specific gravitational field g: {Qwg} = {Qm} {Qd} g (31) but substitution (29) into (27): {Qpa} = {Qm}{Qd} c = (h/c) c (32) {Qpa} = h (33) which meshes very nicely for the atom (except for the factor 1/2Pi, did I miss something?) with the observed quantification of spin angular momentum Ls given by: Ls = [(s(s+1))^1/2]/(2 Pi) h (34) where s is the spin quantum number, or angular momentum quanta L given by L = [(l(l+1))^1/2]/(2 Pi) h (35) where l is the angular momentum quantum number. Acceleration dv/dt appears, based on the initial discussion, to have meaning only in the context of a change in the probability of moving one quantum of distance per unit time (speed in a specific dimension). In fact acceleration might be thought to be required to be zero at all times based on {Qv} = c. However, if we look at the Newtonian kinetic energy formulations we have: E = 1/2 m v^2 (36) and E = F d (37) so we have F = 1/2 m v^2 / d (38) And the quantum of force {Qf} is given by: {Qf} = 1/2 {Qm} c^2 / {Qd} (39) but using (22) we substitute (h/c)(1/{Qd}) for {Qm}: {Qf} = 1/2 (h/c)(1/{Qd}) c^2 / {Qd} = (hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2) (40) Now we can use Newton's: a = F/m (41) to quantize acceleration {Qa}: {Qa} = {Qf}/{Qm} = [(hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2)]/{Qm} (42) we use (29) {Qm} = (h/c) (1/{Qd}) to obtain a quantized acceleration: {Qa} = [(hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2)]/ (h/c (1/{Qd}) (43) {Qa} = (c^2/(2)) (1/{Qd}) (44) Looking at gravitation, which is fortunately not directly dependent upon resolving the mysteries of a finite non-zero value for {Qa}: F = G mM/d^2 (45) we can quantize: {Qf} = G {Qm}{Qm}/{Qd}^2 (46) so now solving for {Qm}: {Qm}^2 = (1/G){Qf}{Qd}^2 substituting (40) for {Qf}: {Qm}^2 = (1/G) [(hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2)] {Qd}^2 (47) {Qm} = [(1/G) (hc/2)]^0.5 (48) {Qm} = (hc/(2G))^0.5 (49) {Qm} = [(6.6260755(40)x10^-34 kg m^2 s^-1)(299792458 m s^-1)/ (50) (2(6.67259(85)x10^-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2)]^0.5 {Qm} = [1.488513052x10^-15 kg m^2 s^-1 m s^-1 m^-3 kg s^2]^0.5 (51) {Qm} = [1.488513052x10^-15 kg^2]^0.5 (52) {Qm} = 3.85812(53)x10^-8 kg (53) >From (16) we obtain {Qd}: {Qd} = (h/c) (1/{Qm}) (54) {Qd} = [(6.6260755(40)x10^-34 kg m^2 s^-1)/(299792458 m s^-1)] (1/{Qm}) (55) {Qd} = (2.210220879x10^-42 kg m) (1/(3.85812(53)x10^-8 kg)) (56) {Qd} = 5.72874(32)x10^-35 m (57) >From (8) we have: {Qt} = {Qd}/c (58) {Qt} = (5.72874(32)x10^-35 m)/(299792458 m s^-1) (59) {Qt} = 1.910903(04)x10^-43 s (60) We have now determined the four basic quanta, Qe, Qm, Qd, and Qt from which all other physical units can be directly derived and quantized. Unfortunately {Qm} is way too high, since we know the mass of the electron is 9.109x10^-31 kg, for example. The question at hand is now whether this is due to an oversight on my part, whether the possibility of quantized space, time and mass is somehow denied, whether the assumptions are too seriously flawed, or whether the numbers derived have some physical meaning, especially the number most in doubt, the quantum of mass derived. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 18 23:43:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA15636; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:39:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:39:45 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:46:38 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Resent-Message-ID: <"Fgi3u3.0.Eq3.mK8vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30399 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 9:36 PM 9/17/99, John Logajan wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: >> It seems to me that if E=h*nu then clearly all energy is not quantized, at >> least not by atomic sized quanta. This is because the doppler effect is >> based upon relative velocity, and velocity (time and distance) is not >> quantized at a level corresponding to energy increments from atoms, or >> quanta of magnetic flux, if at all. Since nearly all matter is in >relative >> motion we can expect that almost no photons absorbed (thus imposing a >> relative velocity) are containing exact multiples of atomic quanta, due to >> fine shifts in frequency imposed by the doppler shift. If the wavelength >> can change in superfine increments, then E=h*nu implies that so does the >> energy. > >Actually, the finest irreducible granularity of quanta would be if >time itself came in irreducible jumps. If time is continuous, all >energies are possible. This is an interesting question as to which unit would be more finely quantized, time or distance, and by how much, I think. I agree it is likely time, but it is notably relevant that the very assumption of the existence of small units of time, e.g. units less than 10^-20 second, is DEDUCED based upon the very law under discussion, namely E=h*nu, not directly measured, as Feynman points out in his lectures. About quantized energy, if either time or distance is continuous then velocity is continuous, thus the doppler shifted values would be continuous, thus energy could not be assumed to exist only in quantized units. > >However, photons are still "quanta" or packetized. We know this >because although you can vary the brightness of a light source, >say a mono-frequency red laser producing either 1 watt or 100 >watts, they still both cause the same eV effect on electrons >they interact with. > >In this way we know that brightness is due to many parallel >packets, each with its own equal energy (in the case of a >mono-frequency laser) and that "packet" energy is determined >by color, regardless of brightness. Yes, but this is E = h*nu equation really does not provide any quantization of energy. Since nu can be anything E can be anything. Doppler and relativistic shifts can alter lambda, possibly ion a continuous fashion. All we really know for sure is that light travels in packets. I have made an effort to remedy this in a post to be sent with this called "The Fundamental Quantum Units". Have fun! Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 00:05:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA20824; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:04:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:04:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:09:19 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Horace Heffner cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"99aCK3.0.I55.Oi8vt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30401 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There are a WHOLE LOT of ifs and presumtions. To look at just a couple: HH said " If distance or velocity do not have quantization ... then you can not DERIVE or CALCULATE quanta. I might have said this wrong. SO: 1] We don't yet know if distance or velocity ahve 'Q' 2] We don't even know what time IS! 3] Until these issues are settled we cannot say Yes or No to 'Q'. 4] The whole idea of Q rests on prediction and math ... and, periodically, the math folks uncover new work .... SO: For my useful models, even if you DO absolutely define the Q of time, velocity and distance ... You will THEN have to prove it experimentally.... because it is only theory until then. I would much rather believe in limitlessness,,,,, then BELIEVE in a limitation CALCULATED AND PREDICTED .... or guessed at. My opinion.. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 04:54:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA19555; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:51:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:51:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37E4CE3A.D72FFA8B verisoft.com.tr> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:51:22 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Q: Does time flow ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zsAgH3.0.On4.HvCvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30402 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Have a bistable flip-flop going set and reset on each clock signal applied. Could the "time" can be described like this clock signal? No, I think. In the contrary, the time concept or dimension is the result of the two different states that the flip-flop have. Time is defined by the function which change states of the flip-flop. Or more simply: Time is the thing which link this two states. I think this description would be one which require minimal set of concept of physics. In my view, the fundamental thing or concept to build the physical world is "function". Even without introducing energy, dimensions, events, and matter, the concept function would be. Functions are structuring the universe, matter, space dimensions, time and all other physical things. Say "Let be a function". John Schnurer wrote: > > Dear Vo., > > Anyone have simple BBGB description, model or time? > > I am NOT looking for equations that declare time is thus because > of a mathmatical framework someone developed. > [snip] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 05:41:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA25279; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:35:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:35:00 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: physics trivia Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:34:05 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3.0.1.32.19990917173936.00f53250 mail.eden.com> <3.0.5.32.19990918112432.01404c30@inforamp.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990918112432.01404c30 inforamp.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA25237 Resent-Message-ID: <"H1n0Y1.0.uA6.pXDvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30403 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:24:32 -0700, Colin Quinney wrote: >Did that include the absorption of neutrinos? :-) >CQ [snip] Or the solar wind? ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 05:44:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA26870; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:42:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:42:59 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:37:28 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <199909181556274.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> <00c301bf021e$771061e0$82441d26@fjsparber> In-Reply-To: <00c301bf021e$771061e0$82441d26 fjsparber> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA26309 Resent-Message-ID: <"i5YOP3.0.gZ6.JfDvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30404 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:39:39 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >> If the force were less than the Casimir force, then how could the gas >> pressure overwhelm it and create a bubble? > >Hah! Good question, Rick. :-) [snip] I believe that Boyer calculated that the Casimir force actually works to increase the size of a sphere. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 05:58:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA29050; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:56:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:56:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37E4DEB2.BF17D623 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:01:39 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Schnurer , "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: What does CTBT Mean ? New for Sep 17, 1999 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AkCfo.0.q57.-rDvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30405 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept. 19, 1999 John, > What does CTBT stand for? C (Comprehensive)TBT (Test Ban Treaty) >What does it MEAN? Stop all nuclear weapons testing. However, this treaty does not make for any security if it is only between two nations and other nuclear weapons capable nations are not participating. Besides, who and what monitors and enforces the treaty even if everybody signs on: Faith? It also means public political brownie points for getting it, not much else lacking details. By the way: BMD is (Ballistic Missile Defense). Nuclear warhead 'secrets' may not be the only items China (and most likely other nations too) got from the U.S., it seems. A news item some years back mentioned a Chinese-Ameican engineer-scientiest(?) type commiting suicide (in the U.S.) when investigations started to inquire about espionage activities. To be polically correct, perhaps I should have said 'Asian-American' but that's how it was read. Off topic: The usuage of hyphenated citizenry is used for race identities among us Americans and often so used. But it also should be used for those that carry dual citizenships --- dual 'loyalties' --- an oxymoron of citizenry. -ak- > 3. BMD: CHINA TESTS MISSILE EQUIPPED WITH BASIC COUNTERMEASURES. > It is now just nine months until the promised deployment decision > on a National Missile Defense (WN 12 Feb 99). But under the > current testing schedule, it will not be known by the promised > June 2000 decision date if the system can defeat even the most > basic countermeasures. Now, the CIA reports that China has > already tested its road-mobile DF-31 missile, equipped with > penetration aids including decoys and chaff. These are the two > most basic countermeasures and China is expected to share its > technology with rogue states including Iran. Until the U.S. has > tested NMD against such countermeasures it's difficult to see how > the system can be certified to be "technologically possible." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 06:42:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA03634; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:39:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:39:47 -0700 Message-ID: <010301bf02ac$7cf00b40$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <199909181556274.SM00240 [192.168.0.2]> <00c301bf021e$771061e0$82441d26@fjsparber> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:36:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"m_nxs.0.bu.XUEvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30406 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 5:37 AM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force Robin wrote: > > I believe that Boyer calculated that the Casimir force actually works to > increase the size of a sphere. > I come up with the same conclusion, which is better yet. Casimir force, F = (Pi)*h*c*Area/(240*d^4) which gives a meager pressure ie., Pressure, P = F/Area which is trivial compared to the 1,000 atmosphere or more, that the surface tension of the water gives to a collapsing bubble. IOW, the ZPE or ZPF tends to cause expansion of a vapor, gas, plasma, or the nucleus-electron separation of an atom, if it (the vacuum) is confined by a high dielectric constant material such as water or the metal (Casimir) plates. Regards, Frederick > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 07:18:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA10578; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:16:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:16:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:20:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Coffee-Nano-Casimir ? Confine a vacuum? In-Reply-To: <010301bf02ac$7cf00b40$82441d26 fjsparber> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Q41_g.0.Cb2.Y0Fvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30407 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What do you mean by "confine a vacuum"? What difference would dielectric VS conductor VS semiconductor make? J On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 5:37 AM > Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater: Surface NanoBubbles & The Casimir Force > > Robin wrote: > > > > I believe that Boyer calculated that the Casimir force actually works to > > increase the size of a sphere. > > > I come up with the same conclusion, which is better yet. > > Casimir force, F = (Pi)*h*c*Area/(240*d^4) which gives a meager pressure > ie., Pressure, P = F/Area which is trivial compared to the 1,000 atmosphere > or > more, that the surface tension of the water gives to a collapsing bubble. > > IOW, the ZPE or ZPF tends to cause expansion of a vapor, gas, plasma, or > the > nucleus-electron separation of an atom, if it (the vacuum) is confined by a > high dielectric > constant material such as water or the metal (Casimir) plates. > > Regards, Frederick > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 08:03:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA18580; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:00:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:00:39 -0700 Message-ID: <19990919150006.22509.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [204.192.96.15] From: "Peter Aldo" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy Sucking Antenna experiment/ Robert and anyone Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:00:06 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"kJ7LO3.0.AY4.MgFvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30408 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: + - + - >From: "Robert I. Eachus" >Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com >To: vortex-l eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Energy Sucking Antennas/ Robert >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:11:18 -0400 > > Thanks Robert, I think I understand what you are saying. Please correct me if I'm wrong: In static mode, sky=+ antenna=+ ground= - But if there is a lightening storm, unless I have a choke, the antenna would develop a negative charge and a leader would flow from ground to sky (bad) . Also if I'm trying to collect only static electricity, could I use light gauge cable like the kind used to connect a T.V. antenna to a T.V.? Pete FREE R&D- for a limited time only. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 08:12:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21668; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:09:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:09:10 -0700 Sender: jack mail3.centuryinter.net Message-ID: <37E4C4C7.50870822 mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:11:03 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <3.0.1.32.19990916154326.01081408 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"m27Ti1.0.UI5.LoFvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30409 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott wrote: ... In this discussion we are exploring the possibility that the operative relationship E = h*nu is not an innate attribute of the radiation but rather something to do with how the radiation interacts with matter. Jack wrote: ... Are you predicting that all detectors will behave exactly as the Si(Li) detector? Scott wrote: Yes, this is my prediction...and my personal observation for 5 kinds of energy-dispersive detectors ... Hi Scott, If all detectors behave exactly as the Si(Li) detector, unless I'm missing something, it would seem experimentally impossible to determine whether or not the operative relationship E = h*nu is an innate attribute of the radiation but rather something to do with "how the radiation interacts with matter." Without the possibilty of differentiation by experiment, the question becomes similar to asking "how many angels can stand on the head of a pin." Jack Smith P. S. Horace wrote: THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS... Horace, that was outstanding! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 08:51:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA28644; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:45:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:45:50 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:52:46 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"vXvtM2.0.U_6.jKGvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30410 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:11 AM 9/19/99, Taylor J. Smith wrote: [snip] >P. S. Horace wrote: THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS... >Horace, that was outstanding! Thanks - but unfortunately it is still wrong! Also, as you can see from the narrative I ended up where I did not expect, with exact values instead of values all in terms of h, a quantum of angular momentum. Also, I meandered around doing misc. calculations until something clicked. I need to rewrite the whole thing, and remove my meandering woolgathering. The unexpected result is exciting, but previously I have had many deductions that were wrong so I assume there is a simple blunder here somewhere. Note - the calculation process utilized may possibly only yield upper bounds for the quanta, though I would have expected an exact match. The value that falls out for angular momentum is very close. The value for mass seems to be a blunder on my part somewhere. By pluggging in the mass of the lightest known particles for the quantum of mass {Qm} the upper limits for the quanta for time and distance are refined by many orders of magnitude. At 3:09 AM 9/19/99, John Schnurer wrote: > There are a WHOLE LOT of ifs and presumtions. None that are not required in some fashion if both space and time are quantized. If either is not then the point of the exercise is non-existant becuase all other derived values including the non-quantized value turn out to be non-quantized. The point of the exercise is to say: if both space and time are quantized, what can we deduce about the nature of the quanta? If we can deduce some new implication then we have a new theory that can lead to test, and maybe even to a practical result. If we can deduce an impossibility, it may then provide proof or a lead to a proof of the continuous non-quantized nature of either time or distance or both or some fuzzy combination similar to that for conjugate quantum variables. What I have hopefully started is a thought process. As you can see, it is easy to propagate the process by simply examining each known law of physics in a mechanical fashion to see the implications. Every computed physical value, including relativistic values, now have an estimated quantization. If there is any basis to the assumptions at all then this process, even with modification for a differing set of assumptions, should yield some conclusions. If space and time are BOTH quantized then reality is very weird indeed. I am simply attempting to grapple with that weirdness. It seems to have strong implications in the realm of reconciling the issues of the quantum vs relativitic arenas, especially as related to gravity. In any event, SOME set of assumptions is required for dealing with this weirdness. I agree that experimentation is the ultimate and final judge of any scientific theory. Well, I have a mistake here, but the derivations are still not all that bad for a day's work. I just need a little help from my friends to make it better! 8^) I've had a good night's sleep so maybe I can find the problem today, but I am desperate for time. > > To look at just a couple: > HH said " If distance or velocity do not have quantization ... >then you can not DERIVE or CALCULATE quanta. > > I might have said this wrong. > > SO: > > 1] We don't yet know if distance or velocity ahve 'Q' > 2] We don't even know what time IS! > 3] Until these issues are settled we cannot say Yes or No to 'Q'. > 4] The whole idea of Q rests on prediction and math ... and, >periodically, the math folks uncover new work .... > SO: For my useful models, even if you DO absolutely define > the Q of time, velocity and distance ... > You will THEN have to prove it experimentally.... because it is >only theory until then. > > I would much rather believe in limitlessness,,,,, then BELIEVE in >a limitation CALCULATED AND PREDICTED .... or guessed at. > > My opinion.. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 08:54:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA29659; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:47:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:47:48 -0700 Message-ID: <37E50674.1260 ca-ois.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:51:16 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time..Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jRzCN1.0.LF7.aMGvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30411 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > > Why would time, or space or anything else need or have to wait for > information? > > Thanks for asking. I did not allege that time or space had to wait for information. As for "anything else", why does your hard disk have to wait for information coming from your modem, which in turn has to wait for information coming in over the phone lines? Isn't this is because there are no units of information that endure for a time T = zero? At the very least, according to standard solid state EM an electron zipping around an atom in a copper wire has to wait for a time = r/c to recieve information from an adjacent hole r distance away that the hole "exists" and that it should move into that hole space, right? This would mean that for a certain amount of time >0 sec the electron is just sitting there, doing nothing , not moving, just waiting...waiting ...until at long last, after what seems like an eternity, the electron "sees" a hole! ....Then, and only then it jumps in and "occupies" the hole, which is then no longer a hole.. but an electron again. Now our little `lectron has to wait some more in order to determine whether or not a hole appears again somewhere else...where will the hole appear? On the right, as before, or on the left, a new direction that would indicate that the polarity of the applied voltage had changed. Such questions can only be answered by waiting for the arrival of a new "bit" of information to appear from somewhere. This bit will have a rise time, a sustaining time, and a fall time, all cumulatively amounting to a time t>0. That would necessitate "waiting", no? Just jump in and stop me anywhere you think I'm wrong... I could go on but let's not build the house before the foundation is set. J.O. > > On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > > > John Logajan wrote: > > > > > > > > Actually, the finest irreducible granularity of quanta would be if > > > time itself came in irreducible jumps. If time is continuous, all > > > energies are possible. > > > > > > > How can time be discontinuous? Are you sure you don't mean "existence" > > might be discontinuous, in the sense I spoke of earlier, where all > > motion stops due to the need for an "information" phase in the causality > > process? > > > > My "pet theory" would say is that the information phase occurs at a time > > between the decelleration of the source particle and the acceleration of > > the target particle. > > > > To re-iterate, the operative concept here would be that there is no > > information phase that endures for time t=zero. All information must > > have a cumulative rise, sustain and fall endurance time > 0. > > > > Jim Ostrowski > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 09:29:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00546; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:01:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:01:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990919110000.00993930 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:00:00 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Brown flock during electrolysis of tap water. In-Reply-To: <000301bf01f3$bbc20a80$fc77883e default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gfZMG2.0.N8.KZGvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30412 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:53 AM 9/18/99 +0100, Magic Kent wrote: >All metal components in the cell are stainless steel and they remain >perfectly clean. I'm sure they look clean but it is a certainty that the electrodes are being consumed. When a given electrode is positive (you're using AC, right?), atomic oxygen forms on its surface. Even Pt cannot avoid gradual oxidation under those conditions. Less noble metals oxidize rapidly. Examine some used electrodes closely. You'll probably see a sand-blasted appearance. Brown flock is likely various iron-oxide-hydrates. Collect some of it and mail it to me. I'll confirm its composition via XRF. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 11:11:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01194; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:08:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:08:26 -0700 Message-ID: <37E5275B.5F3C ca-ois.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:11:39 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bmSIX1.0.YI.QQIvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30413 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: (snip) > > If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only > advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how > fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that > limit is c. We then have: Instead of you going thru all this math work presented before and after the above statement of your "assumption", Horace, why not just present your conclusion first and then have a normal conversation about it with the rest of us here on vortex? (that would be called a "dialog"). What you have here is a self massaging mathematical monolog going on and I for one am not interested in wading through all of your equations one by one to see if you are right. You may think that all this math is really impressive and it may be to some people but to others who are just here to try and learn a few things, basic principles, and talk about EXPERIMENTAL results, primarily, it's just a lot of jots and mumbo jumbo. For one thing, you would think by now that you would realize that the "assumption" you make above may actually be offensive to some people, particularly on this forum, who have worked hard on experiment and data gathering which tends to show that the "c velocity limitation" is absolutely bogus. You then carry on from that point into all kinds of exterraneous interpolation rooted in your questionble assumption. I'm not going to go into all the myriad reasons why your assumption is wrong, because that is ground we have covered before, maybe while you were on vacation or whatever. For a little remedial reading perhaps you would like to check out http://www.ldolphin.org/vanFlandern/ and tell us what the problem with Van Flandern's arguments are. Then we could respond and etc then we would have a "dialog". That is unless you would want to continue to be the Jay Leno here and we can all laugh or something. Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 11:35:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA06243; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:34:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:34:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:34:19 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: sciclub-list eskimo.com cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Possible acoustic phenomenon, very bizarre Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Q8T-U.0.QX1.ioIvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30414 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's something interesting to try. Think about this: what happens when there is a standing wave in a pipe with sealed ends? The pressure oscillation is maximum at the ends, right? This is true regardless of which overtone is excited in the pipe. OK, now what would happen if we excite multiple overtones of equal pressure? (Say 1F, 3F, 5F, 7F, 9f, etc.) The pressure oscillation at the end of the pipe would be large for every overtone. WHen sine waves are superposed like this, the result approaches a delta-function. The profile of the pressure oscillations in the pipe would be very strange: relatively low amplitude everywhere except near the surfaces of the closed ends of the pipe. With enough short-wavelength standing waves in the system, the thickness of the high-pressure region would be very small. It would be like a thin membrane, almost like a cavitation-bubble on the surface of a ship's propellor. With enough energy in the system, the absolute pressure at the ends of the pipe while oscillating would approach two atmospheres... and vacuum. It would become a sort of vibrating soliton or "standing shockwave" in the air. (I've seen pictures of such things in books on Ultrasound, but didn't realize that they might appear at lower frequencies.) If we then remove the closures from the end of this pipe, what will happen? Well, the thin "oscillating shockwaves" represent a nonuniformity in the medium. The speed of sound is not normal within them. Since they represent an impedance mismatch, it might be true that they will reflect sound, and cause the standing waves to remain trapped inside the tube. BIZARRE! Remove the ends from the tube, and the waves continue to reflect... from themselves?!!! Now for the really weird part. (And you thought it was weird already?) Slowly lower the frequency of the drive oscillator that powers the standing waves in the pipe (the drive oscillator would emit a kind of comb-spectrum +1 -3 +5 -7 +9, which would appear as a bipolar periodic spike-pulse.) As the frequency goes down, the "shockwave membrane" should move out from the end of the pipe as if a soap bubble was being inflated. ! This is all speculation. If this should really work in the real world, we would expect to see a sort of silvery "membrane" because the pressure excursion within the high-pressure region produces internal-reflection in the air. If this should really work, what will happen if you stick your finger into the "bubble"? Will it receive a burn? Resist penetration? Is this a "Star Trek" device brought to life? Where did this idea come from? It follows (via a tortuous path) from the "energy sucking antenna" concepts. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 11:50:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA09490; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:47:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:47:17 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:54:10 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"Qolkl.0.CK2.r-Ivt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30415 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I may know where at least one problem with the approach lies. It may be in the fact that the equations produced only show limits and provide integral constrains. If we have three physical variables x, y and z where z = f(x,y) then we expect the function f to be closed, that is for it to produce a corresponding value z. This closure then guarantees that for some z1 we have: z1 = f({Qx},{Qy}) In the case where: z = x*y for example, I assumed where: z1 = {Qx}*{Qy} the value z1 would be the minimum possible value of z1 and thus {Qz} = z1. However, closure only demands that: z1 = N1*{Qz}, N1 integer > 0 so we it appears that z1 might actually come in much smaller units, due to other requirements or by being created by a some other function of quantum units. It appears, unless there are mitigating circumstances like the case of {Qd}/{Qt} = c, the quantum multiple Ni has to be employed for each function Fi. For this reason the fundamental derivations thus far are: (Nm){Qm} = 3.85812(53)x10^-8 kg (53) (Nd) {Qd} = (h/c) (1/{Qm}) (54) (Nd) {Qd} = (1/Nm) 5.72874(32)x10^-35 m (57) (Nt) {Qt} = {Qd}/c (58) (Nt) {Qt} = (1/Nm) (1/Nd) 1.910903(04)x10^-43 s (60) where Nm Nd and Nt are the quantum numbers of the related equation and must be integers greater than zero. We know that Nm is large, Nm is > 4.2E^22 based solely on the mass of the electron, 9.1x10^-31 kg, which is very heavy compared to neutrinos and some photons. Right away this shows: {Qd} < 1.4x10^-57 {Qt} < 4.5x10^-66 Showing that the assumptions lead to a contradiction, i.e. that the universe is continuous or the assumptions false, then amounts to showing an inconsistancy like a requirement for one or more Ni to increase to an arbitrarily large size, like Ni > Nj, but due to another function Nj > Ni. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 11:54:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA11092; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:52:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:52:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990919144319.012bfb90 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:43:19 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units In-Reply-To: <37E5275B.5F3C ca-ois.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"C8jsC2.0.Ej2.U3Jvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30416 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:11 AM 9/19/99 -0700, Jim Ostrowski wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: >> If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only >> advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how >> fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that >> limit is c. We then have: > >Instead of you going thru all this math work presented before and after >the above statement of your "assumption", Horace, why not just present >your conclusion first and then have a normal conversation about it with >the rest of us here on vortex? (that would be called a "dialog"). > >What you have here is a self massaging mathematical monolog going on and >I for one am not interested in wading through all of your equations one >by one to see if you are right. > >You may think that all this math is really impressive and it may be to >some people but to others who are just here to try and learn a few >things, basic principles, and talk about EXPERIMENTAL results, >primarily, it's just a lot of jots and mumbo jumbo. All ways of looking at this problem/hypothesis/theory are reasonable. IMO Horace has attempted to provide his point of view backed up by math. To derive, or attempt to derive, and then post such seems reasonable. OTOH, those interested need consider both sides, and Jim's URL is also very helpful (although the pdf paper cited there was not downloadable by me as yet). Thanks, Jim. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 12:12:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA17171; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:12:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:12:03 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:19:03 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"PBkKA2.0.DC4.3MJvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30417 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:11 AM 9/19/99, Jim Ostrowski wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: > >(snip) > >> >> If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only >> advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how >> fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that >> limit is c. We then have: > >Instead of you going thru all this math work presented before and after >the above statement of your "assumption", Horace, why not just present >your conclusion first and then have a normal conversation about it with >the rest of us here on vortex? (that would be called a "dialog"). When I started writing the post yesterday I did not know where it would lead. > >What you have here is a self massaging mathematical monolog going on and >I for one am not interested in wading through all of your equations one >by one to see if you are right. There are no requirements on you here - to either read or respond. > >You may think that all this math is really impressive and it may be to >some people but to others who are just here to try and learn a few >things, basic principles, and talk about EXPERIMENTAL results, >primarily, it's just a lot of jots and mumbo jumbo. The math is all simple high school algebra level. The physics is simple too. It's only the way of thinking that is different. This is supposed to be discussion on a professional level here. The isn't the freenrgy list. True? > >For one thing, you would think by now that you would realize that the >"assumption" you make above may actually be offensive to some people, Ah - now I see the problem, bigotry! 8^) >particularly on this forum, who have worked hard on experiment and data >gathering which tends to show that the "c velocity limitation" is >absolutely bogus. You then carry on from that point into all kinds of >exterraneous interpolation rooted in your questionble assumption. I did not say that is the way the world is. I said if the world was that way what may we conclude? If I do say the world is that way do I get flogged and excommunicated? 8^) > >I'm not going to go into all the myriad reasons why your assumption is >wrong, because that is ground we have covered before, maybe while you >were on vacation or whatever. So, what are your conclusions? Is the universe quantized? Does energy only come in fixed size packets? How big are they? Is relativity all kaput? > >For a little remedial reading perhaps you would like to check out > >http://www.ldolphin.org/vanFlandern/ > >and tell us what the problem with Van Flandern's arguments are. Then we >could respond >and etc then we would have a "dialog". That is unless you would want to >continue to be the Jay Leno here and we can all laugh or something. > >Jim Ostrowski If don't ask questions you don't get any answers. 8^) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 13:29:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA02760; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:26:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:26:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199909192026.QAA00548 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:21:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AWb891.0.zg.ZRKvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30418 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only > advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how > fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that > limit is c. We then have:... ...A false assumption. The limit is obviously not c. While no information has been sent at superluminal velocity, (or just not published) there are *phenomena* which propagate faster than c. This should be explicitly impossible within the framework of propagation allowing an advancement of one unit of distance per unit of time, etc, with c taken as the limiting factor. Here are some questions I pose to the group in general, in a "blow by grinding blow" manner: 1. What experiments show that time is indeed quantized? 2. What experiments show that a "quanta" can only advance one unit of distance per unit of time? 3. What experiments show that *distance* is quantized? I know the Planck limit and that such, but has this been proven experimentally? Mathematics, theories, etc., are good for what they are worth. They frequently help us open new doors to things, and give us the ability to correlate what our experiments show. But if a theory says "you can't do that because some math said so," beware. If you let yourself fall into the idea that just because a theory says so, something is impossible, you will have a hard time getting back out again. Lets decide how the universe works by not contriving equations, but by studying the universe itself. I think I can guarantee you, mother nature has many tricks up her sleeves. Don't take this as a flame. --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 13:59:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10369; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:58:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:58:33 -0700 Message-ID: <19990919210133.26466.rocketmail web130.yahoomail.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:01:33 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: Nano Bubbles/Wacky Water To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: war123 aztec.asu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"0JLDM3.0.wX2.uvKvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30419 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The following post is made at at the request of F J Sparber: There was an article in the New Scientist entitled WACKY WATER.......yes....article if I can read my bad photocopy is dated 21 Jun 1997 pages42-43 "If this is right the weirdness of water could be all down to empty space" "As a consequence of Heisneberg s famous uncertainty principle, which forbids the exact properties of a system from being known at any given time, ZPF s are bursts of energy that emerge from nowhere to jostle everything around us including water clusters. When we took these things into account, the cage-like structures emerged as the most stable form of water clusters, but if all the structures in liquid water were the prism type, basic properties of water like its boiling point would be different. If this right the weirdness of water could be all down to the empty space, which puts waiting for the kettle to boil into a new perspective." By Robert Matthews of the Sunday Telegraph for the NS Article also mentions water at 37 degrees C is different... since different bonds are broken....our bodies take advantage of this and runs at 37 degress C or 98 degrees F Article is very interesting. Best, Ron Kita Antigravitics_R_US Interesting reading the patent issued to Keith Johnson formerly of MIT Water Clusters assignee Quantum Energy Technologies..that should be enough descriptors to find. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 19:32:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28933; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:27:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:27:45 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman mail.earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:40:59 -0600 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: josephnewman earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE Resent-Message-ID: <"G_KP03.0._37.XkPvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30420 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN 11445 East Via Linda, No. 416 Scottsdale, Arizona 85259 (480) 657-3722 josephnewman earthlink.net www.josephnewman.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (September 18, 1999) WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE: It was just brought to my attention that Mr. Dennis Lee (also operating under the name of "Better World Technolo- gies, Inc." or "United Community Services of America") ran a full-page advertisement in USA TODAY on Friday, September 17, 1999. He specifically stated that he would be "selling magnetic motors that are more than 200% efficient." All people be warned: Dennis Lee came to my national demonstration at the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans in the mid-1980s and he even wrote me a letter offering $1,000,000.00 for permission to use my Pioneering Energy Invention to operate a device he had already been promising to people. I turned him down and told him, "If your device works, then you don't need my Magnetic Motor Pioneering Techno- logy." Even at that time I was suspicious that he was deceiving people. NOW I KNOW THAT HE IS! If he is in ANY WAY claiming that "He and his company have invented a Revolutionary Magnetic Motor" (that can operate at over 100% efficiency), then I consider him to be LYING SCUM! And if Dennis Lee sells magnetic motors that are over 100% efficient, then HE & HIS COMPANY WILL BE SUED BY ME! He even attempts to lie by claiming to have first discovered that magnets will attract copper and aluminum. That fact has long been taught in science. If one places a magnet on a stack of thin aluminum or copper plates and quickly lifts the magnet away, the top plates will rise. Many years ago I even showed this effect by having neodymium magnets connected to scales, opposite and facing one another, but being only 1/2 inch apart so that they were DEFYING gravity with the magnets becoming suspended in air. I then also placed an aluminum ruler between the two magnets and the faster I moved the aluminum ruler, the more strongly the two magnets tried to follow in the direction of the moving ruler. This simple experiments demonstrates ATTRACTION! It is also true that the aluminum or copper is repelled when the magnet is moved towards those hanging objects. Dennis Lee and Cohorts apparently don't know this. Copper and aluminum are both attracted and repelled by magnets. The above simple demonstration was documented years ago on video which was purchased & seen by many people across the world, including most probably Dennis Lee since he specifically purchased my book. Dennis Lee and Cohorts also attempt to claim that they are demonstrating something new by stating that they can transfer electricity through the air to another receiver of the electricity. TRUTH: Michael Faraday was the FIRST to prove this more than 150 years ago. His accomplishments subsequently caused James Clerk Maxwell to disclose his famous Electro- magnetic Field Propagation Equations. In the early 1900s, Nikola Tesla also proved that such could be accomplished. As any hustler would do, Dennis Lee and Cohorts cover themselves by stating in the headlines of their USA TODAY full page advertisement: "This machine MAY give you free electricity for the rest of your life." Further down in the advertisement, Dennis Lee and Cohorts state that the demonstrations to be held around the country are "free," but then, in the same advertisement, they state that they intend to separate you from $275 before you leave. I call that talking out of BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH. I have given many TRULY FREE demonstrations of my Pioneering Energy Machine Technology across the country and at such demonstrations I have never asked for "contributions or donations" nor attempted to sell and accept monies at my demonstrations for any product except for what was immediately deliverable to the public --- such as my fundamental book, THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN. I have also demonstrated on numerous occasions uncon- nected banks of lights being lit while my Motor/Generator was operating and I even had individuals from the audience hold lights over the battery pack and the lights would become illuminated without ANY wires being attached to them. I did this, for instance, at the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans at a demonstration specifically attended by Dennis Lee. Such demonstrations are all documented on videotapes which have been distributed across the country. People: BEWARE. Any attempt by Dennis Lee and Cohorts to claim my Revolutionary Energy Machine Technology as their own will mark them as FRAUDS and THIEVES! I am pushing ahead with the honest production of my life's work. Even the A & E Network and the History Channel have broadcasted Specials that verify the truth of which I speak! Power to the People! [Signed] Joseph W. Newman (480) 657-3722 P.S. Please pass this email along to others! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 19 22:13:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA22470; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:04:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:04:33 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:08:02 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE Resent-Message-ID: <"JhFc43.0._U5.W1Svt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30421 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe; It appears that we are in total agreement regarding Dennis Lee being lying scum. I've been writing a proposal for a museum exibit honoring the late Otto Schmitt. One of my suggestions was a working overunity generator. I mentioned your name as a possible source for such a machine. The motor would turn a generator which would charge one of two batterys. When the second battery was charged it would heat water untill the first battery was exhausted. If someone agrees to fund it can you deliver? Sincerely Thomas malloy From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 05:12:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA13447; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:11:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:11:01 -0700 Message-ID: <018a01bf0369$4e28a840$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: ZPE, Nanobubbles, and Nanopores in the Case Cell Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:08:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ZFG7g2.0.yH3.KHYvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30422 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Reaching... The propensity of the ZPE "virtual particles" to pop into existence in small cavities surrounded by high dielectric constant materials, poses the possibility that the nanopores in the activated carbon along with the Pd in the Case Cell are conducive to this effect. This tends to square with other "condensed matter fusion" effects, where the nanopores may be seeding the CF-OU reactions. This suggests that other nanopore "molecular sieve" materials with high dielectric constants (such as Barium Titanate) may be suitable for sustained OU operation. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 05:23:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA15973; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:22:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:22:25 -0700 Sender: jack mail3.centuryinter.net Message-ID: <37E5EF32.29246B8 mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:24:18 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <3.0.1.32.19990916154326.01081408 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"kbFbz2.0.Vv3.0SYvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30423 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that limit is c. Hi Horace, I don't think your assumption detracts from your derivation, and I also agree with Jim that experiment rules. As far as "natural and customary" is concerned, Michelson himself explicitly denied that his experiment showed that v + c = c. Gravity appears to be "instantaneous", and I know of no experiment determining the speed of gravity. Probably, however gravity is propagated, it is travelling many orders of magnitude greater than c. Maybe it's just there, like the information that determines the fate of Schroedinger's cat. The success of the atom bomb experiment confirming E = mc^2 does not prove c is a limit since E = mc^2 can be derived without any appeal to relativity. Hopefully, theory points the way to new experiments. Unfortunately, in many cases, theory is used to proclaim the impossibilty of doing something or to demand the expenditure of hundreds of millions to scrutinize the emperor in an effort to catch a glimpse of his new clothes. Jack Smith From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 06:08:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA25729; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:06:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:06:39 -0700 Message-ID: <37E631BC.807F9FEF austininstruments.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:08:13 -0500 From: John Fields Organization: Austin Instruments,Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HTzuf3.0.wH6.V5Zvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30424 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: ... > And if Dennis Lee sells magnetic motors that are over > 100% efficient, then HE & HIS COMPANY WILL BE SUED BY ME! On what grounds? Clearly, you have no patent, and are not willing to allow objective testing of your machine, so why shouldn't he do what he wants to? > He even attempts to lie by claiming to have first > discovered that magnets will attract copper and aluminum. > That fact has long been taught in science. If one places > a magnet on a stack of thin aluminum or copper plates and > quickly lifts the magnet away, the top plates will rise. ---For someone who claims to have an intimate knowledge of science, I'm surprised that you believe that magnets will attract copper and/or aluminum. What is creating the attractive force is the momentary magnetic field generated about the conductor when current is caused to flow by the _moving_ magnetic field cutting the conductor. Try attracting an aluminum or copper object without moving the magnet (or moving it slowly) and I'm sure you'll come to a greater understanding of the magnetic field. --- John Fields, Overunity Laboratories, Inc. El Presidente Austin, Republic of Texas "I speak for the company" http://www.overunitylabs.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 06:50:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04660; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:48:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:48:43 -0700 From: bpaddock csonline.net (Bob Paddock) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:44:30 -0400 Organization: is mostly via piles Reply-To: bpaddock csonline.net Message-ID: <+oj53UQy8EMb092yn csonline.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990916154326.01081408 mail.eden.com> <37E5EF32.29246B8 mail.pc.centuryinter.net> In-Reply-To: <37E5EF32.29246B8 mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Lines: 73 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Resent-Message-ID: <"dBcdF1.0.j81.wiZvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30425 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I don't think your assumption detracts from your derivation, >and I also agree with Jim that experiment rules. As far as >"natural and customary" is concerned, Michelson himself explicitly >denied that his experiment showed that v + c = c. > >Gravity appears to be "instantaneous", and I know of no experiment >determining the speed of gravity. http://www.best.com/~dolphin/vanFlandern/gravityspeed.html The Speed of Gravity - What the Experiments Say Tom Van Flandern Meta Research, Univ. of Maryland Physics, Army Research Lab 6327 Western Ave., NW / Washington, DC 20015-2456 (http://metaresearch.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9606171 On the Existence of Undistorted Progressive Waves (UPWs) of Arbitrary Speeds $0 \leq v< \infty$ in Nature Authors: W.A. Rodrigues Jr., J.-Y. Lu "We present the theory, the experimental evidence, and fundamental physical consequences concerning the existence of families of undistorted progressive waves (UPWs) of arbitrary speeds $0\leq v < \infty$, which are solutions of the homogeneous wave equation, Maxwell equations, and Dirac and Weyl equations." ----------------------------------------------------------------- Some thing I saved from the KeelyNet message base in 1992: ----------------------------------------------------------------- By Erol Torun 07/20/92 from the KeelyNet BBS. "Concerning the Silvertooth experiment: The Michelson-Morley experiment, which did not show any translational motion through an aether or other medium of propagation, was later shown to have a fundamental flaw: The standing waves that are reflected back onto a mirror become phase locked on the mirror, and hence to its motion through space. Silvertooth built a standing wave experiment that avoids the phase locking encountered in the Michelson-Morley setup. It uses a configuration similar to the Sagnac experiment, which many years ago did detect motion relative to an aether. Silvertooth's addition was a sensor capable of measuring the spacing between standing wave nodes. This spacing is dependent upon the orientation of the apparatus relative to the Earth's motion, and this fact made the Earth's motion measurable. Silvertooth measured the 378 km/s motion of the Earth in this experiment. Some references are: Silvertooth, E.W., "Experimental Detection of the Ether", Speculations in Science and Technology, Vol.10, No.1, page 3 (1987) In that same issue beginning on page 9, is an excellent "Plain English" summary by H. Aspden entitled 'On the Silvertooth Experiment'." [We are heading toward the Constellation Leo.] ----------------------------------------------------------------- FWIW The Silvertooth experiment is described and discussed on pp. 250-252 of "beyond the Big Bang" by Paul LaViolette. Includes a photo of the apparatus. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Standing Wave Sensor" from Applied Optics/Vol. 22, No. 9/1 May 1983 showed up by E.W.Silvertooth & S.F.Jacobs. ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oilcity.org/research/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 08:58:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21761; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:57:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:57:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37E65A39.53E1 ca-ois.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:00:57 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Phase Shifting the Wavefunction- Was:Resolution etc References: <3.0.1.32.19990915171033.01083858 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1EDE1F7D13AE" Resent-Message-ID: <"3upcP2.0.wJ5.Nbbvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30426 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1EDE1F7D13AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Little wrote: > > Somehow, someway, EM radiation with a 1 Angstrom wavelength > always comes in packages that contain 12.4 keV of energy. > > ... In this discussion we are exploring the possibility > that the operative relationship E = h*nu is not an innate > attribute of the radiation but rather something to do with how > the radiation interacts with matter. Ok how about this: Let's try to prove (with theory first then experiment) that there is a wave function associated with material existence, ok? The material existing would be in this case the detector material, the Si-Li or whatever. DeBroglie started out with the alleged momentum of the "photon" presumed by Planck formula E=hv.. Momentum = hf/c since wl*f = c the momentum of a "photon" can be expressed in terms of it's wl as: Momentum = h/wl Hence, for a photon wl=h/momentum DeBroglie suggested that this equation for momentum is a perfectly general one, applying to material objects as well as to photons. In the case of a piece of material mass, detector stuff or what have you... Momentum = mv and so it's Debroglie Wavelength is wl=h/mv This means that the more momentum an object has, the shorter it's wavelength. Now the verification of DeBroglie's hypothesis seems to be the Davisson/Germer experiment in the US and the GP Thomson experiment in the UK which independently demonstrated that streams of electrons are diffracted when they are scattered from crystals. The diffraction patterns they observed were in complete accord with the electron wavelengths predicted by DeBroglies formula. D&G aimed a beam of 54 ev electrons at a Nickel crystal (see gif illustration, attached). The momentum of a 54 ev electron can be calculated without relativity consdiderations so: KE= 1/2 mv^2 and here then KE = 54 eV * 1.6 * 10E-19 J/eV = 8.6 * 10E-19 J then we have mv = sqrt 2mKE = sqrt 2*9.1* 10E-31kg * 8.6 * 10E-18J = 4.0 * 10e-24 kg-m/s The electron wl is therefore wl = h/mv = 6.63 * 10E-34 J secs/4.0 * 10E-34 kg m/s = 1.7 * 10E-10 m This is the same order of magnitude as the spacing of the atoms in the nickel crystal! Apparently, D&G found that the scattered 54 eV electrons were concentrated in just the direction (angle = 50 deg) predicted by the theory of diffraction for waves of wl=1.7 * 10E-10 m! (INSTEAD of the more even distribution predicted by purely billiard ball scattering) We recall that diffraction is prominant only when the wavelength of the waves is comparable with the spacing of the scattering centers. Now here comes the good part! Remember I said B4 that the idea is that material existence (not time, space or anything else) is discontinuous (quantized)? Well this comes straight from the above argument/experiment which shows that material particles (electrons) have a WAVE FUNCTION! Now the value of the wave function for a particular object at a certain place and time just seems to be the probability of FINDING the object at a certain place AT THAT TIME!(standard QM). For some kinds of macroscopic objects undergoing oscillatory motions finding it's wave function is easy. You take the width of the object along the line defined by the direction of it's osciullatory motion and divide that into the absolute value of the oscillatory distance. This means if we have a pendulum bob swinging in an arc 3 times the diameter of the bob in cm the wave function is: psi = object width along line of oscillation (x) / ABS VAL oscillatory distance in terms of object width (y) psi = x/y Psi for the pendulum bob is then = 1/3 Now I'm sure this gets more complicated in three dimensions but y'all see what I'm getting at, right? What if we only happen to be looking at things at the same instant when they appear to be there, in some kind of synchronized phase relationship involved in our SEEING and conscious perception of material object and that material object's physical existence at the percieved place and time. Can this phase relationship be manipulated by influencing the wave function with phase shifting pulses or something like that? What if Scott were to vibrate his detector so that the absolute value of the oscillatory distance became some even or odd multiple of 1 angstrom? Would we still get 12.4 KeV of energy per X-ray "photon"? If we had a vibration of three angstoms per oscillation and that resulted in a reading of 4.13 kev per photon, this would show that the detector interacts with the incoming radiation depending on the detector's own psi factor (it's "probabilty of existence" wave function). Unless of course, I'm mistaken about something, which is entirely possible. Jim Ostrowski --------------1EDE1F7D13AE Content-Type: image/gif; name="NICRYST.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="NICRYST.GIF" R0lGODdhDQJeAZMAAAAAAAAAqwCrAACrq6sAAKsAq6tXAKurq1dXVwAA/wD/AAD///8AAP8A ////AP///ywAAAAADQJeAQME/vDJSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//A oHBILBqPyKRyyWw6n9CodEqtWq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz2hZYi1ZJ9LwuHzudLfZL7def3/T /4CBZHuEfiyFfA92K4uCjo+QNIiJh3gYjSmYkZucnSSLmoyWF6EmpZ6oqaqKeKcorqyGsaN9 lJN9s7KFFHaUHXu8bL61usLDfKCjsKvMZpPLI7cTjbvTiMSJ0rm217+E1tXYhtrPuODN6HLP tJnd5tSt8LKxFcO14H7Z0PL3s+b0/ixws8QvncE0yeaJUhgsX7d9tE5pStiQgzRMCb8BFBiR YDyG/gdDgqGYh13FbSQ1TDS58Z0ylg01Yvwok+XKYm+gidzJDFbKegXPneTo8ePQDBJfOgSZ tOg8YDyj7lz3LxzKjvpAXh2n1BvUlvIGItWGT6rZg1TB2rOKb6lKjf9avp2JM2bduTnZ6TzL t2/Im0C1+h1MOB05e4UTK15lFfHix5AjS55MJ+2lvZQza04BAIdlojA3ix5dovMNzNtIq15d 2nPowI5Zy55NwbSHdYLFlUL2GvRdobSDh7Ttlexl41lBhAMsvHk64jwGcs09NChq59gBQY9O 8+iGw9Ozi3cGl8N2vO5EZCz3PX2v3uPjWzGe4fxY9nhj6i5/fK5c+QBi/iFdB/bFgF9/H7CV 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uZzGu7p6u03wh3rUCVzMW3MIwnpG+IIt+pgO2q2ChoF2Vp1r15xJqaLr15ow6GrZmRuwpPZw hDa+1UFzuLuerNtoznmBsttfMThoSTqX63u/5rdbMtdcCHq96vqYsnmi9NtzM9oUt3sODMya ZYG+pcqi01fA1DXBxPtn8GlJlFZn/ZtfDBeDNKd6Cmx97vuaSsiYKYfBjRpvFSxuKixdx6l6 zwttcCln5Iu6SmSdQIwQODnEkVDERpzESrzETNzETvzEUBzFcBsBAAA7 --------------1EDE1F7D13AE-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 10:07:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20080; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:06:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:06:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:10:18 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: dwenbert cc: VORTEX L Subject: Re: How the Newman motors might really work In-Reply-To: <002801bf0207$bcc7caa0$7cf1fea9 hal-9000> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pFnKx1.0.gv4._bcvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30427 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Who is Greg East? What is "fusion occurs everywhere"? Have you studied or understood what BEC IS ? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 10:16:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA21700; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:10:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:10:04 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:14:25 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: war123 aztec.asu.edu Subject: Re: Nano Bubbles/Wacky Water In-Reply-To: <19990919210133.26466.rocketmail web130.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Nocbq3.0.sI5.hfcvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30428 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can you put up ASCII of Wacky Water article? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 10:40:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA31206; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:33:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:33:39 -0700 Message-ID: <37E670F0.6B04 ca-ois.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:37:53 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"A_jhn1.0.Wd7.o_cvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30429 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 11:11 AM 9/19/99, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > >Horace Heffner wrote: > > > >(snip) > > > >> > >> If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only > >> advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how > >> fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that > >> limit is c. We then have: > > > >Instead of you going thru all this math work presented before and after > >the above statement of your "assumption", Horace, why not just present > >your conclusion first and then have a normal conversation about it with > >the rest of us here on vortex? (that would be called a "dialog"). > > When I started writing the post yesterday I did not know where it would lead. > Did it lead to some kind of testable conclusion? I really couldn't figure that out from what you had written. > > > >What you have here is a self massaging mathematical monolog going on and > >I for one am not interested in wading through all of your equations one > >by one to see if you are right. > > There are no requirements on you here - to either read or respond. No, you're right about that. For that matter I don't even have to be here. Since I am here, I choose to exercise my option to be critical. > > > > >You may think that all this math is really impressive and it may be to > >some people but to others who are just here to try and learn a few > >things, basic principles, and talk about EXPERIMENTAL results, > >primarily, it's just a lot of jots and mumbo jumbo. > > The math is all simple high school algebra level. The physics is simple > too. It's only the way of thinking that is different. This is supposed to > be discussion on a professional level here. Fine. What is the experiment that some professional could perform that would verify your "conclusion" (which I am in a fog about at this time)? > The isn't the freenrgy list. > True? If it was what difference would that make? > > > >For one thing, you would think by now that you would realize that the > >"assumption" you make above may actually be offensive to some people, > > Ah - now I see the problem, bigotry! 8^) I equate bigotry with arrogance. It is perfectly reasonable for people to find scientific arrogance offensive. When you say that it is only "natural and customary" to assume the c limitation it reflects the mindset of mainstream science which will not even consider the possibilty of the opposite idea. This sort of mindset is indicative of an arrogant attitude. The fact is that most arrogators do not know that they are being arrogant. > > >particularly on this forum, who have worked hard on experiment and data > >gathering which tends to show that the "c velocity limitation" is > >absolutely bogus. You then carry on from that point into all kinds of > >exterraneous interpolation rooted in your questionble assumption. > > I did not say that is the way the world is. Uh-huh, so your arguments are entirely inconclusive about reality (the `real' world) then. > I said if the world was that > way what may we conclude? IF the world was flat then what may we conclude? The point is if you didn't prove something by some reasonable logical process then you are just spewing nonsense. > If I do say the world is that way do I get > flogged and excommunicated? 8^) > You get criticized by me, that's all. Come or go as you wish. > > > >I'm not going to go into all the myriad reasons why your assumption is > >wrong, because that is ground we have covered before, maybe while you > >were on vacation or whatever. > > So, what are your conclusions? Is the universe quantized? See my related post "Phase Shifting the Wavefunction". I think material existrence might be quantized, maybe. > Does energy > only come in fixed size packets? Either that or the energy detector exists during fixed size packets of time. > How big are they? This would depend on the detector material's wavefunction. With this theory detections are synchronzed with wavefunction periods. > Is relativity all > kaput? I don't know. (snip) > If don't ask questions you don't get any answers. 8^) > We can agree about that... Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 13:46:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA07575; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:42:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:42:15 -0700 Message-ID: <008001bf03a8$6018f2a0$ddb1883e default> From: "Magic Kent" To: Subject: Shaded pole electromagnets for non-ferrous metals. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:41:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF0397.B7DE2FC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"csryx1.0.Cs1.amfvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30430 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF0397.B7DE2FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is (or at least 'was') a book in our local library written by a = pioneer in the field of maglev. He was the one that did the live TV = broadcast, of levitating metal discs, many years back. In his book he = gives construction details for an electromagnet that will lift copper = coins. If anyone is interested, I will see if they still have it on the = shelf. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF0397.B7DE2FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is (or at least 'was') a book = in our local=20 library written by a pioneer in the field of maglev. He was the one that = did the=20 live TV broadcast, of levitating metal discs, many years back. In his = book he=20 gives construction details for an electromagnet that will lift copper = coins. If=20 anyone is interested, I will see if they still have it on the=20 shelf.
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BF0397.B7DE2FC0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 15:10:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA01179; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:01:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:01:39 -0700 Message-ID: <01e201bf03bb$c341cba0$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Titania Nanoparticles-Nanopores Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:58:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"gdUkL.0.KI.2xgvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30431 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW, Titania (TiO2) has a dielectric constant that ranges from 86 to ~180. Titanium Tetrachloride (TiCl4) boils at 136 deg C and hydrolyzes in the presence of moist air; TiCl4 + 2 H2O --> TiO2 + 2 HCl + H2. This is used as a "smoke" in warfare. It was also used by Sandia and NREL to make titania nanoparticles/clusters for their Solar Concentrator organic waste remediation experiments. Potassium, Strontium, or Barium Titanates , K2TiO3, SrTiO3, and BaTiO3 can be formed hydrothermally. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 15:41:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA29413; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01eb01bf03c0$93521ee0$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Intro to Basic Sciences Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:32:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0385.B3F254C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"8Ny483.0.IB7.6Thvt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30432 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0385.B3F254C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nrel.gov/basic_sciences/basicframe.html ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0385.B3F254C0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Intro to Basic Sciences.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Intro to Basic Sciences.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.nrel.gov/basic_sciences/basicframe.html [DOC#6#7] BASEURL=http://www.nrel.gov/basic_sciences/basic-navig.html [DOC#6#8#9] BASEURL=http://www.nrel.gov/basic_sciences/basichead.html [DOC#6#8#10] BASEURL=http://www.nrel.gov/basic_sciences/chemsci.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.nrel.gov/basic_sciences/basicframe.html Modified=00B2294FC003BF01AD ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0385.B3F254C0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 16:34:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA06303; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:32:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:32:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:30:10 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units In-reply-to: <37E5275B.5F3C ca-ois.com> X-Sender: kurtz imap2.asu.edu (Unverified) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <199909202330.QAA25077 smtp.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: Resent-Message-ID: <"0Qyei1.0.OY1.YGivt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30433 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:11 AM 9/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: > >(snip) > > >For one thing, you would think by now that you would realize that the >"assumption" you make above may actually be offensive to some people, >particularly on this forum... You have got to be kidding! There is no morality aspect to his assumptions. I don't think any mathematical model of any physical phenomena exists without "assumptions", save perhaps counting principles. Whether someone "believes in" or "offended by" any of the principles of special relativity or quantum mechanics or any other scientific theory sounds like a topic for alt.religion to me. I have to admit some of the implications of quantum mechanics baffle me, but I am not offended by them. Whatever is, is. --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 20:31:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA17657; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jack mail3.centuryinter.net Message-ID: <37E6C35D.3ECD613D mail.pc.centuryinter.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:29:33 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resolution of the Wave/ Particle duality References: <3.0.1.32.19990916154326.01081408 mail.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" Resent-Message-ID: <"a23AY1.0.mJ4.fklvt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30434 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Ostrowski wrote: Can this phase relationship be manipulated by influencing the wave function with phase shifting pulses or something like that? What if Scott were to vibrate his detector so that the absolute value of the oscillatory distance became some even or odd multiple of 1 angstrom? Would we still get 12.4 KeV of energy per X-ray "photon"? If we had a vibration of three angstoms per oscillation and that resulted in a reading of 4.13 kev per photon, this would show that the detector interacts with the incoming radiation depending on the detector's own psi factor (it's "probabilty of existence" wave function). Hi Jim, Your fascinating ideas are an irresistable temptation for me to present some excerpts from: "Possibility Of Experimental Study Of Properties Of Time" [Unpublished article by N. A. Kozyrev: English title as above; Pulkovo, "O VOZMOZHNOSTI EKSPERIMENTAL'NGO ISSLEDOVANIYA SVOYSTV VREMENI", Russian, September 1967, pp 1-49] "... Time represents an entire world of enigmatic phenomena, and they can in no way be pursued by logical deliberations. The properties of time must be gradually explained by physical experiment. ... in the transmission of the vibrations from the gyroscope to the support of the weights variations in the readings of the weights can appear, ... ... during vibrations a heavy body should become lighter. In the opposite case, when the source of vibration is connected with the mounting, the body should become heavier. In a pendulum, during a vibration of the suspension point, there should occur a deflection towards the south. ... The effect of time differs basically from the effect of force fields. The effect of the causal pole on the device (pendulum) immediately creates two equal and opposite forces, applied to the body of the pendulum and the suspension point. There occurs a transmission of energy, without momentum, ... The transmission of energy without momentim (pulse) should still have the following very important property: Such a transmission should be instantaneous: ... Time in the universe is not propagated but appears immediately everywhere. ... the altered properties of a given second will appear everywhere at once, diminishing according to the law of inverse proportionality of the first power of the distance. It seems to us that such a possibility of the instantaneous transfer of information through time ... The previously applied torsion weights (balances) were modified in such a manner that ... the torsion balances came to resemble a gravitational variometer, only with the difference that in them the balance arm could be freely moved around a horizontal axis. ... The processes causing deflection of the weights were most varied: heating of the body; burning of an electric tube; cooling of a previously heated body; the operation of an electrical battery, closed through resistance; the dissolving of various salts in water; and even the movement of a man's head. A particularly strong effect is exerted by nonstationary processes: e.g., the blinking of an electric bulb ... It turned out that the balances can be shielded, to a considerable extent, from these influences by placing near them an organic substance consisting only of right-handed molecules: for example, sugar ... It is curious that the preservation of the additional forces in the system, after a cesstation of the vibrations, can be observed in the balances in the most simple manner. Let us imagine balance scales in which on of the weights is suspended on rubber. Let us take this weight with one hand and, with the pressure of the other hand upon the balance arm, replace the effect of the weight taken from it. We will shake the removed weight for a certain time (around a minute) on the rubber, and then we will place it back upon the scales. The scales will indicate the gradual lightening of this load ..." I could go on, but this is enough said to indicate the possibilities of "vibration" experiments. Jack Smith From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 21:26:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA07877; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:24:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:24:58 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bf03ac$0f668b20$5cc3fea9 hal-9000> Reply-To: "dwenbert" From: "dwenbert" To: Subject: Re: How the Newman motors might really work Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:06:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"SDwPC.0.vw1.PYmvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30435 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schneurer wrote: > Who is Greg East? > What is "fusion occurs everywhere"? > Have you studied or understood what BEC IS ? I was responding, in part to one of Greg's posts on the list (A list, either Newman-L, Freenrg-L, or Vortex-L). Low energy nuclear reactions have been discovered in so many, different, and unrelated contexts since the demonstration of the Pons Fleischmann Effect in D2O electrolysis, that his statement is, at this point, nearly impossible to refute. It quite likely occurs at some level within the cells of all living systems, because, there again, the energetics of oxidation chemistry come up wanting in terms of providing a source which is able to account for all of the energy represented by and demonstrated within living organisms. The BEC is the most profound development in technology since fire. Its implications alter absolutely everything we work with today in how matter is refined, separated, combined, organized, transported, and utilized. Next to the devices it will progenate, all else that man has yet created technologically, from Space Shuttles, to Supercomputers, to Superconductivity, to Cold Fusion and Zero-Point Energy, all pales by comparision. The BEC Atom Laser can only - inevitably, and with no alternative possible - lead to the actual, practical development of "Transporters" (teleportation), "Replicators", "Holodecks", and, as well, an entirely new class of "Phaser" weaponry. We know, from the history of technology, how similar artifacts evolve in power and sophistication, as their applications become apparent. Matter lasers utilize the wave function of the 'lasing' atoms, spreading their quantum presence simultaneously along the entire (and, virtually 'infinate') length of the beam. It has already been done on a 'macroscopic' scale, as such things are defined (i.e. Millions of Atoms at once), whereby the beam can be made to terminate and naturally recoalesce at a preselcted target. [This avoids the whole tired hodgepodge of counting and tracking individual atoms in order to teleport and reconstruct them.] There is little difference, in the course of things, between doing it with a microscopic flake of metal, or doing it with an aircraft carrier; it becomes merely a question of the energy available with which to do so. There are hurdles to be overcome; samples today must be chilled to just above absolute zero to induce atomic coherence; but that is not a fundamentally essential prerequisite to doing so, merely a convenient one. There will doubtless be numerous methods developed for inducing it at higher temperatures, and in ways in which temperature plays no part whatsoever. If you believe that the BEC experiments are merely some academic curiousity to confirm an abstract bit of mathematics, Think Again. Like Trinity Site, and Tranquility Base, the first matter laser changed our world, forever. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 20 22:55:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA32703; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:51:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:51:12 -0700 X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: ZPE, Nanobubbles, and Nanopores in the Case Cell Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:50:17 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <018a01bf0369$4e28a840$82441d26 fjsparber> In-Reply-To: <018a01bf0369$4e28a840$82441d26 fjsparber> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id WAA32640 Resent-Message-ID: <"dRezh.0.u-7.Fpnvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30436 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:08:10 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >Reaching... > >The propensity of the ZPE "virtual particles" to pop into existence in >small cavities surrounded by high dielectric constant materials, poses the [snip] How did "high dielectric constant materials" get into the act? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 00:09:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA13387; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:02:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:02:40 -0700 Message-ID: <19990921070236.19358.rocketmail web119.yahoomail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:02:36 -0700 (PDT) From: ron kita Subject: Wacky Water/Patent 5800576 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: nova137 pacificrim.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"MKwF_3.0.5H3.Gsovt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30437 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It is interesting to note that the patent issued to Keith Johnson formerly of MIT on- Water Clusters and Uses Thereof - relates the combustion of diesel fuel in an engine WITHOUT oxygen..the water cluster is modified to provide the oxygen (US 5800576). Also will be posting addition quotes from the WACKY Water article due to high requests. Best, Ron Kita Antigravitics_R_US __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 00:48:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA21086; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:46:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:46:53 -0700 Message-ID: <37E68D59.4FA7 ca-ois.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:39:06 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE References: <37E631BC.807F9FEF@austininstruments.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sVg3f2.0.O95.iVpvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30439 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Fields wrote: > > Evan Soule wrote: > > ... > > > And if Dennis Lee sells magnetic motors that are over > > 100% efficient, then HE & HIS COMPANY WILL BE SUED BY ME! > > On what grounds? > > Clearly, you have no patent, and are not willing to allow > objective testing of your machine, so why shouldn't he do what he > wants to? > Sounds to me like two magicians fighting over rights to perform the same trick. The reference to having "audiences" instead of independent research labs verifying Newman's so called results smacks of good old PT Barnum showmanship. Maybe we should send Pen and Teller in there. > > He even attempts to lie by claiming to have first > > discovered that magnets will attract copper and aluminum. > > That fact has long been taught in science. If one places > > a magnet on a stack of thin aluminum or copper plates and > > quickly lifts the magnet away, the top plates will rise. > > ---For someone who claims to have an intimate knowledge of > science, I'm surprised that you believe that magnets will attract > copper and/or aluminum. > > What is creating the attractive force is the momentary magnetic > field generated about the conductor when current is caused to > flow by the _moving_ magnetic field cutting the conductor. Right on. > > Try attracting an aluminum or copper object without moving the > magnet (or moving it slowly) and I'm sure you'll come to a > greater understanding of the magnetic field. > > --- Newman doesn't NEED to understand the magnetic field as long has he has paying "audiences" who will accept his explanations. Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 00:48:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA20774; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:46:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:46:45 -0700 Message-ID: <37E737D0.7434 ca-ois.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:46:24 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units References: <199909202330.QAA25077@smtp.asu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cPcvK.0.R45.aVpvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30438 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lynn Kurtz wrote: > > At 11:11 AM 9/19/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Horace Heffner wrote: > > > >(snip) > > > > > >For one thing, you would think by now that you would realize that the > >"assumption" you make above may actually be offensive to some people, > >particularly on this forum... > > You have got to be kidding! There is no morality aspect to his assumptions. Perhaps not, but I am not convinced of that entirely. The morality aspect I think might be in holding a belief system fostered by VOLUNTARY subjection to "indoctrination" (brainwashing). Tow the status quo line, get the grade, know what I mean? I don't like it. Sorry. > I don't think any mathematical model of any physical phenomena exists > without "assumptions", save perhaps counting principles. Whether someone > "believes in" or "offended by" any of the principles of special relativity > or quantum mechanics or any other scientific theory sounds like a topic for > alt.religion to me. This is not a usenet newsgroup. If you are suggesting that you take my comments to another forum, I don't know of any others where I can address Horace directly rather than be critical of his writings somewhere else where he is not likely to read my comments. I do not think that would be right, do you? I have a right to use my experience, and inuitive sense about the way the physical really is. Tesla had strong "feelings" about the way things were, based on years of experiment and intuition. That did not mean that anything he might have became "adamant" about belongs in alt/religion. Being adamant in response what looks like BS can involve a sense of indignation , offense etc on the part of the respondent. > I have to admit some of the implications of quantum > mechanics baffle me, but I am not offended by them. Whatever is, is. Good. Let's say assumptions that appear (to me) to be fostered by a conspiratorial elitist arrogant government public education system have the effect of offending me, sometimes. Just the way I am. "I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam" - Popeye Jim Ostrowski > > --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 01:49:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA31658; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:46:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:46:32 -0700 Message-ID: <021101bf0415$e7ea9cc0$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <018a01bf0369$4e28a840$82441d26 fjsparber> Subject: Re: ZPE, Nanobubbles, and Nanopores in the Case Cell Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:44:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"q-tXC3.0.ak7.dNqvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30440 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 10:50 PM Subject: Re: ZPE, Nanobubbles, and Nanopores in the Case Cell Robin wrote: > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:08:10 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: > [snip] > >Reaching... > > > >The propensity of the ZPE "virtual particles" to pop into existence in > >small cavities surrounded by high dielectric constant materials, poses the > [snip] > How did "high dielectric constant materials" get into the act? The Casimir plates are metallic conductors (the effect doesn't work with low dielectric constant insulators) and since the wave velocity v in a metal: ~= (1.0E7*f/conductivity)^1/2 = 1/(k*eo*uo)^1/2 then the dielectric constant of the metal must be quite large, right? Ever hear of dielectric waveguides or reflectors? Regards, Frederick > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 06:02:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA00308; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:01:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:01:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:01:40 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: for sale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-rrQt1.0.z_7.t6uvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30441 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See below. Contact him privately, for he is not a subscriber here. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:44:01 -0700 From: Bob Levitt To: billb eskimo.com Subject: Comments from Amateur Science --- url --- http://www3.sympatico.ca/aquariusr/sale1.htm --- comments --- Since I am trying to dump High Voltage and other electronic components I have collected over the past 28 years, I felt you might want to list this web site that lists what I am selling (see HV components). Thanks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 08:43:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA24837; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:42:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:42:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Noel Whitney" < iol.ie> From: "Noel Whitney" To: Subject: Re: Brown flock during electrolysis of tap water. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:31:32 +0100 Message-ID: <01bf044e$fd0e5b80$2991cbc1 quantum.iol.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DF_01BF0457.5ED2C380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vSlAH1.0.x36.STwvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30442 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01BF0457.5ED2C380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Magic Kent To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: 17 September 1999 22:20 Subject: Brown flock during electrolysis of tap water. =20 =20 I have been running a WFC on High Frequency, high voltage pulse = trains. I have been doing the with normal conductive tap water. After = seeing a comment in a news group last night, I decided to check the = resistance of the cell I had been running. It was greater than 20 Meg = Ohms. During normal running of the cell a lot of brown flock appears, in = the otherwise clear water. When the cell is gassing, it forms a ring = around the meniscus of the water. When the cell is switched off this = brown flock sinks and covers all horizontal surfaces in the cell. I am wondering if the conductive contaminants in the tap = water have now become the brown flock. Can anyone comment on this = please. I would also like to know if this happens during normal = commercial electrolysis of water ?. Thank you. =20 During my unfortunate time my company was working with Meyer we = found the same "Brown Flock" during replication experiments. Analysis of = the residue showed it to be Iron based and its source was the iron in = the "Stainless Steel" material used in the electrodes.Examination of the = electrodes after some use also showed evidence of Electro-polishing = -i.e. the surface finish was considerably improved and nearly polished. A change to different materila such as Hastelloy C22 produced by = Haynes Steels or similar will eliminate the problem. Hope this is of some help to you. Bets of luck in the tests. ------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01BF0457.5ED2C380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Magic Kent <bazz@andover111.freeserve= .co.uk>
To:=20 vortex-l@eskimo.com = <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Dat= e:=20 17 September 1999 22:20
Subject: Brown flock during=20 electrolysis of tap water.

I have been running a WFC on = High Frequency,=20 high voltage pulse trains. I have been doing the with normal = conductive tap=20 water. After seeing a comment in a news group last night, I decided = to check=20 the resistance of the cell I had been running. It was greater than = 20 Meg=20 Ohms. During normal running of the cell a lot of brown flock = appears, in the=20 otherwise clear water. When the cell is gassing, it forms a ring = around the=20 meniscus of the water. When the cell is switched off this brown = flock sinks=20 and covers all horizontal surfaces in the cell.
           I = am=20 wondering if the conductive contaminants in the tap water have now = become=20 the brown flock. Can anyone comment on this please. I would also = like to=20 know if this happens during normal commercial electrolysis of water = ?. Thank=20 you.
 
During my unfortunate time my = company was=20 working  with Meyer we found the same "Brown Flock" = during=20 replication experiments. Analysis of the residue showed it to be = Iron based=20 and its source was the iron in the "Stainless Steel" = material used=20 in the electrodes.Examination of the electrodes after some use also = showed=20 evidence of Electro-polishing -i.e. the surface finish was = considerably=20 improved and nearly polished.
A change to different materila = such as=20 Hastelloy C22 produced by Haynes Steels or similar will eliminate = the=20 problem.
Hope this is of some help to=20 you.
Bets of luck in the=20 tests.
------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01BF0457.5ED2C380-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 11:18:02 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16417; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:16:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:16:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:20:20 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: dwenbert cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: How the Newman motors might really work In-Reply-To: <001a01bf03ac$0f668b20$5cc3fea9 hal-9000> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"n3zeL2.0.I04.wjyvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30443 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some notes, On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, dwenbert wrote: > John Schneurer wrote: > > > Who is Greg East? > > What is "fusion occurs everywhere"? > > Have you studied or understood what BEC IS ? > > I was responding, in part to one of Greg's posts on the list (A list, either > Newman-L, Freenrg-L, or Vortex-L). > > Low energy nuclear reactions have been discovered in so many, different, and > unrelated contexts since the demonstration of the Pons Fleischmann Effect in > D2O electrolysis, that his statement is, at this point, nearly impossible to > refute. It quite likely occurs at some level within the cells of all > living systems, because, there again, the energetics of oxidation chemistry > come up wanting in terms of providing a source which is able to account for > all of the energy represented by and demonstrated within living organisms. > What do YOU mean by fusion? Please give some examples of how "It is occurring everywhere" > The BEC is the most profound development in technology since fire. Its > implications alter absolutely everything we work with today in how matter is > refined, separated, combined, organized, transported, and utilized. Next > to the devices it will progenate, all else that man has yet created > technologically, from Space Shuttles, to Supercomputers, to > Superconductivity, to Cold Fusion and Zero-Point Energy, all pales by > comparision. Please give me a description of BEC and how it works. > > The BEC Atom Laser can only - inevitably, and with no alternative possible - > lead to the actual, practical development of "Transporters" (teleportation), > "Replicators", "Holodecks", and, as well, an entirely new class of "Phaser" > weaponry. We know, from the history of technology, how similar artifacts > evolve in power and sophistication, as their applications become apparent. > Matter lasers utilize the _____________ ".... wave function of the 'lasing' atoms, spreading > their quantum presence simultaneously along the entire (and, virtually > 'infinate') length of the beam. Please tell me what you are talking about here______ ____________________________________________________________________ It has already been done on a > 'macroscopic' scale, as such things are defined (i.e. Millions of Atoms at > once), whereby the beam can be made to terminate and naturally recoalesce at > a preselcted target. What has been done, and how? [This avoids the whole tired hodgepodge of counting > and tracking individual atoms in order to teleport and reconstruct them.] > There is little difference, in the course of things, between doing it with a > microscopic flake of metal, or doing it with an aircraft carrier; it becomes > merely a question of the energy available with which to do so. > What do you mean? > There are hurdles to be overcome; samples today must be chilled to just > above absolute zero to induce atomic coherence; but that is not a > fundamentally essential prerequisite to doing so, merely a convenient one. > There will doubtless be numerous methods developed for inducing it at higher > temperatures, and in ways in which temperature plays no part whatsoever. > > If you believe that the BEC experiments are merely some academic curiousity > to confirm an abstract bit of mathematics, Think Again. Like Trinity Site, > and Tranquility Base, the first matter laser changed our world, forever. > How has Trinity Site changed the world? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 12:23:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12497; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:16:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:16:17 -0700 Message-ID: <37E7D7B0.2567 ca-ois.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:08:32 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Extrapolation vs Interpolation References: <001a01bf03ac$0f668b20$5cc3fea9 hal-9000> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MX_MF2.0.633._bzvt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30444 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: dwenbert wrote: (snip) > The BEC Atom Laser can only - inevitably, and with no alternative possible - > lead to the actual, practical development of "Transporters" (teleportation), > "Replicators", "Holodecks", and, as well, an entirely new class of "Phaser" > weaponry. It occurrs to me that what we are discussing here are currnet ongoing BEC experiemnts performed at academic institutions, right? For example I found this site that seems related: http://amo.mit.edu/~bec/newsf97/newsf97.html This is obviously MIT's contribution to the field. What I really wonder about though is how far MIT might be BEHIND in terms of SECRET military technology. QM theory has been around for at least 60 years. After all most advancements in general science were "spin offs" from military technology, the microchip, microwave ovens, lasers and etc. The way I became interested in all of this from the very beginning was from reading "popular" books like William Moore's "The Philadelphia Experiment: Project Invisibility" and Charles Berlitz' Bermuda Triangle series. Now that stuff seemed "Far Out and weird, man" at the time (around 1987), but if all the concepts described in those books were bogus why do they just RECENTLY start appearing in mainstream research? All the anecdotal stuff about UFO's, Ghosts, Ball lightning and what have you remains unexplained. But there is a problem with the process science uses to deal with such matters. Now I have to admit that I'm a little sketchy on the precise differences between deductive and inductive reasoning, but I think it boils down to a paradigm related to those differnces. One way of looking at nature and explaining it's processes is extrapolation, and the opposite is interpolation. Science uses interpolotion a lot from what I can see. This is where you take a set of pre-existing principles or assumptions (there's that word again) and build on those to formulate your theory and proceed on that to design your experiment. Only if one is lucky will such an experiment result in an outcome that will explain some previously unexplained natural phenomena or "UFO" generated phenomena. If extrapolation were used on the other hand, one looks at the unexplained phenomena first, studies other phenomena that might exhibit an ANALOGOUS principle, and applies the understood principle in the sysnthesis of a procedure to apply in a way that might reveal the operational principles of the unexplained process. With extrapolation the focus is on dealing with described effects and trying to duplicate them, with interpolation one just proceeds on the basis of previous experiment and tries to refine THOSE results to the Nth degree. To give an example let's look at the way radio technology has been developed by "mainstream science". We have the standard visualization of radio waves as ripples in a pond. The "Interpolative" researcher merely refines the analogy for accuracy of description and comes up with better and better ways to transmit and demodulate ripple-in-a-pond-like EM disturbances. We then get HiFi and stereo FM but no serious explanation of UFO's for example. On the other hand the extrapolative reseacher might ask, "If radio waves are like ripples in a pond, what radio -like phenomena might be described by "bubbles" maybe, or a "whirlpool" in the pond?" and take the question and run with THAT! Which researcher is more likely to uncover the secrets of unexplained phenomena where there is only anecdotal evidence in support of the phenomena's existence? The point is we might have derived such explanations long ago, were it not for the narrow minded focus on interpolative result. The A-Bomb was the result of a program involving a lot of free thinking extrapolators, Oppenheimer, Bethe and all. When you look at the Abstracts of research grants that get funded by gov't, it's always something that refines the understanding of a known phenomena, rather than helps our understanding of the unknown or little understood one. This is not good. This is bad, negative, manipulative and offensive. So there, you may think value judgements of scientific processes have no place in science, but I beg to differ... Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 15:28:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA03022; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909212222.SAA28916 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Email address for Peter Graneau... Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:17:52 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KAl711.0.6l.vM0wt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30445 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all: Anyone here know Peter Graneau's email address? (assuming of course that he has one) --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 15:59:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30142; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:57:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:57:48 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bf0484$f7d3a4a0$345323cb -> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: Shaded pole electromagnets for non-ferrous metals. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:58:46 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF04D8.AE1015C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"wzVGs3.0.uM7.ir0wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30446 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF04D8.AE1015C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >There is (or at least 'was') a book in our local library written by a = pioneer in the field of maglev. He was the one that did the live TV = broadcast, of levitating metal discs, many years back. In his book he = gives construction details for an electromagnet that will lift copper = coins. If anyone is interested, I will see if they still have it on the = shelf. Rex Research also sells plans for a non-ferrous levitator. Peter Nielsen ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF04D8.AE1015C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>There is (or at least 'was') a = book in our=20 local library written by a pioneer in the field of maglev. He was the = one that=20 did the live TV broadcast, of levitating metal discs, many years back. = In his=20 book he gives construction details for an electromagnet that will lift = copper=20 coins. If anyone is interested, I will see if they still have it on = the=20 shelf.
 
Rex Research also sells plans for a non-ferrous levitator.
 
Peter Nielsen
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF04D8.AE1015C0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 18:30:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA04793; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:23:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:23:57 -0700 Message-ID: <024701bf04a1$3cd067c0$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:20:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"bIkFn.0.nA1.i-2wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30447 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In order to see if there is any ultraviolet generated with the 200 watt coffee cup heater, a small amount of fluorescein powder can be mixed in with K2CO3 in the water. Ran in a very dark room, the greenish-yellow fluorescence might be seen with the dark-adapted eye. My "source" the local high school chem lab, can't get me a bit of fluorescein powder before tomorrow night. Other water-soluble fluorescent dyes might work as well. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 21:08:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA27761; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:04:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:04:39 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990921210153.00a10810 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:04:20 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: WARNING TO EVERYONE REGARDING DENNIS LEE In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"f6F8X2.0.Un6.ML5wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30448 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > And if Dennis Lee sells magnetic motors that are over >100% efficient, then HE & HIS COMPANY WILL BE SUED BY ME! > No one will be sued by anyone unless there is a patent in place to sue about. If there is one way to build a magnetic motor at over unity, then there are certainly hundreds. And only the one that was patented will be protected by the patent, and the other techniques will earn other inventors or the same inventor additional patents. You can't claim what a thing does. You must claim what it IS. And if someone new builds something that ISN"T what yours IS, then it doesn't infringe. That, is the cold hard reality of new technology. rt President, IDI. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 21 23:09:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10424; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:01:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-From: rvanspaa bigpond.net.au X-BPC-Relay-Envelope-To: X-BPC-Relay-Sender-Host: CPE-24-192-27-124.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.27.124] X-BPC-Relay-Info: Message delivered directly. From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: ZPE, Nanobubbles, and Nanopores in the Case Cell Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:58:55 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <018a01bf0369$4e28a840$82441d26 fjsparber> <021101bf0415$e7ea9cc0$82441d26@fjsparber> In-Reply-To: <021101bf0415$e7ea9cc0$82441d26 fjsparber> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id XAA10358 Resent-Message-ID: <"RmesC.0.nY2.937wt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30449 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:44:25 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >> >The propensity of the ZPE "virtual particles" to pop into existence in >> >small cavities surrounded by high dielectric constant materials, poses >the >> [snip] >> How did "high dielectric constant materials" get into the act? > >The Casimir plates are metallic conductors (the effect doesn't work >with low dielectric constant insulators) and since the wave velocity v in a >metal: > ~= (1.0E7*f/conductivity)^1/2 = 1/(k*eo*uo)^1/2 then the dielectric >constant of the metal must be quite large, right? Hmmm...the sky is blue, and so is the sea, so you should be able to swim between the clouds right? > >Ever hear of dielectric waveguides or reflectors? No. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 01:19:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA24806; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:15:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:15:40 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:22:36 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: The Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"2sKK01.0.W36.h09wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30450 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS The purpose here is to take a look at some consequences of the assumtion that the fundamental phsyical values, distance, time, mass, and charge, and therefore all physical values, are quantized. Based upon experience it is reasonable to assume that charge is quantized at a value e, the charge of the electron. Let {Qx} denote the quantum of unit x. Thus we assume and define: {Qe} = e = 1.6021773349 x10^-19 coulombs (1) {Qd} = quantum of distance (2) {Qt} = quantum of time (3) {Qv} = {Qd}/{Qt} = quantum of velocity (4) Assumed constants are: speed of light: c = 299792458 m s^-1 (5) Plank's constant: h = 6.626075540x10^-34 kg m^2 s^-1 (6) Gravitational constant: G = 6.67259(85)x10^-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2 (6a) All constants are from the 74th Edition of the CRC Handbook, thus are from the 1986 CODATA Recommended Values of the Fundamental Physical Constants. The derivations that follow are not necessarily limited to the assumption that space is Euclidian or 3 dimensional, only that the above terms have meaning in one or more dimensions. It might be supposed distance has meaning and is quantized in some dimensions and not others, then the following deductions would only have meaning in the quantized dimensions, but that is beyond the scope of present consideration. It is sufficient here to assume we are talking about conventional 3D Euclidian space. If either time and space are not quantized then all other values involving those units, including energy, can not be quantized, as they are functions of distance and time and Plank's constant h. All physical units can be expressed in the mks system, i.e. as expressions in units of meters, kilograms, and seconds, and charge in coulombs. If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that limit is c. We then have: {Qd}/{Qt} = c (7) and thus: {Qd} = c {Qt} (8) In fact, the quantization of space and time provides a reason for the limitation c. If we make the above few assumptions a full quantization of all physical values falls therefrom. The denial in reality of any deductions that fall from these assumptions denies the assumptions. If we have three physical variables x, y and z where z = f(x,y) (8a) then we expect the function f to be closed, that is for it to produce a corresponding value z. This closure then guarantees that for some z1 we have: z1 = f({Qx},{Qy}) (8b) In the case where: z = x*y (8c) for example, where: z1 = {Qx}*{Qy} (8d) we can not automatically assume that the value z1 is the minimum possible value of z1 and thus {Qz} = z1. Closure only demands that: z1 = N1*{Qz}, N1 integer > 0 (8e) so z1 might actually come in much smaller units than it first appears. Unless there are mitigating circumstances like the case of {Qd}/{Qt} = c, the quantum multiple Ni has to be employed for each function Fi. Now (8) appears to give problems in that v t = d, so since velocity v = d/t is quantized there exists {Qv} such that: {Qv} {Qt} = N1 * {Qd}, N1>0 is integer (9) {Qv} = N1 {Qd}/{Qt} = N1 c (9a) seeming to imply that during each quantum of time everything in motion moves either not at all, or moves exactly at c or, if feasible, in multiples of c! However, to move less than c, say at 0.9 C, we can conclude there is about a 0.1 probability of no motion per each quantum of time advancement. Motion is thus in staggered jumps. The most likely assumption to be denied, and which appears to be denied by (9a) if N1 can be greater than 1, is the limit on how many units anything can move in a time period. The amount of movement may possibly be determined stochastically and involve motion more that one unit per unit of time. Reconciliation of QM with relativity demands a means of handling the Doppler shift, apparent changes in units of mass time and distance, and the requantization of the resulting shifted energy values upon receipt of a photon. This reconciliation, upon receipt of a photon, appears to happen via stochastic methods, i.e. waveform collapse probabilities, etc. This may be an indication that photon motion is a random walk phenomenon, which would help explain the expansion of photons with time, though it does little to explain interference patterns. It is of interest that a fixed probability of motion per each unit of time is similar in macro effect to motion due to a stochastic function giving a variable number of quanta, but having a mean motion per unit time, depending on speed in the given dimension, thus the determination of which model applies to how the motion is achieved is moot to Newtonian mechanics. Given Plank's: E = h nu = h c/lambda (10) but substituting the smallest value {Qd} for lambda we have a corresponding multiple of a quantum of energy {Qe}: N2 {Qe} = (h c)/{Qd} (11) {Qe} = (1/N2) (h c)/{Qd} (11a) but knowing c = {Qd}/{Qt} we have {Qe} = (h {Qd}/{Qt})/{Qd} = h/(N2 {Qt}) (12) But knowing: m = E/c^2 (13) We have the apparent quantization of mass Qm: N3 {Qm} = {Qe}/c^2 (14) but substituting (12) {Qe} = h/(N2 {Qt}): {Qm} = [h/(N2 {Qt})]/c^2 = (1/N3) (1/N2) (h/c^2) (1/{Qt}) (15) {Qm} = (1/N3) (1/N2) h {Qt}/{Qd}^2 = (1/N3) (1/N2) (h/c) (1/{Qd}) (16) and we have momentum {Qp} given by: N4 {Qp} = {Qm} {Qv} = {Qm} c = (h {Qt}/{Qd}^2) c (17) applying (16): {Qp} = (1/N3) (1/N2) [(h/c^2) (1/{Qt})] c = h/(c {Qt}) = h/{Qd} (18) {Qp} = (1/N3) (1/N2) (h/c) (1/{Qt} (18 a) but since {Qt} = {Qd}/c: {Qp} = (1/N3) (1/N2) h/{Qd} (18 a) which corresponds nicely to de Broglie's: p = h/lambda (19) >From (16) {Qm} = (1/N3) (1/N2) (h/c) (1/{Qd}) (21) we have directly: (h/c) N2 N3 = {Qm}{Qd} (22) Absolute density {Qden} in 3 dimensions is given by: N5 {Qden} = {Qm}/{Qd}^3 = [(1/N3) (1/N2) h/{Qd}]/{Qd}^3 = (h/c)/{Qd}^4 (23) {Qden} = (1/N3) (1/N2) (1/N5) h/{Qd}^4 <= h/{Qd}^4 which seems to imply a maximum feasible density. For a quantum of angular momentum {Qpa} we can use: N6 {Qpa} = {Qm}{Qv}{Qd} (24) {Qpa} = (1/N6) {Qm}{Qd}/{Qt}{Qd} (25) {Qpa} = (1/N6) {Qm}{Qd}^2/{Qt} (26) or alternatively from (24): {Qpa} = (1/N6) {Qm}{Qd} c (27) Looking at (22) further we have: {Qm} = N2 N3 h/c (1/{Qd}) (29) {Qm}{Qd} = N2 N3 h/c = N2 N3 2.210220879x10^-42 kg m (30) which appears to correspond to a quantum of work {Qwg} in a specific gravitational field g: N7 {Qwg} = {Qm} {Qd} g (31) and provides a quantumization {Qg} of the gravitational field: N8 {Qg} = N7 {Qwg}/({Qm} {Qd}) = N7 N9 {Qe}/({Qm} {Qd}) (31a) Substituting (29) into (27): {Qpa} = (1/N6) [N2 N3 h/c (1/{Qd})] {Qd} c {Qpa} = (1/N6) [N2 N3] h (32) {Qpa} = (N2 N3)/N6 h (33) which corresponds somewhat to the atom (except for the factor 1/2Pi, did I miss something?) with the observed quantification of spin angular momentum Ls given by: Ls = [(s(s+1))^1/2]/(2 Pi) h (34) where s is the spin quantum number, or angular momentum quanta L given by L = [(l(l+1))^1/2]/(2 Pi) h (35) where l is the angular momentum quantum number. Acceleration dv/dt appears, based on the initial discussion, to have meaning only in the context of a change in the probability of moving one quantum of distance per unit time (speed in a specific dimension). In fact acceleration might be thought to be required to be zero at all times based on {Qv} = c. However, if we look at the Newtonian kinetic energy formulations we have: E = 1/2 m v^2 (36) and E = F d (37) so we have F = 1/2 m v^2 / d (38) And the quantum of force {Qf} is given by: N9 {Qf} = 1/2 {Qm} c^2 / {Qd} (39) but using (22) we substitute (h/c)(1/{Qd}) for {Qm}: {Qf} = 1/2 (1/N9) (h/c)(1/{Qd}) c^2 / {Qd} = (1/N9) (hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2) (40) Now we can use Newton's: a = F/m (41) to quantize acceleration {Qa}: N10 {Qa} = {Qf}/{Qm} = [(1/N9) (hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2)]/{Qm} (42) we use (29), i.e. {Qm} = N2 N3 h/c (1/{Qd}) to obtain a quantized acceleration: {Qa} = [(hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2)]/ (N2 N3 h/c (1/{Qd})) (43) {Qa} = (1/2) ((N2 N3)/N10) c^2 (1/{Qd}) (44) Looking at gravitation, which is fortunately not directly dependent upon resolving the mysteries of a finite non-zero value for {Qa}: F = G mM/d^2 (45) we can quantize: N11 {Qf} = G {Qm}{Qm}/{Qd}^2 (46) so now solving for {Qm}: {Qm}^2 = (N11/G){Qf}{Qd}^2 substituting (40) for {Qf}: {Qm}^2 = (N11/G) [(1/N9) (hc/2) (1/{Qd}^2)] {Qd}^2 (47) {Qm} = [(N11/G) (1/N9) (hc/2)]^0.5 (48) {Qm} = (N11/N9 hc/(2G))^0.5 (49) {Qm} = (N11/N9)^0.5 [(6.6260755(40)x10^-34 kg m^2 s^-1)(299792458 m s^-1)/ (2(6.67259(85)x10^-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2)]^0.5 (50) {Qm} = (N11/N9)^0.5 [1.488513052x10^-15 kg m^2 s^-1 m s^-1 m^-3 kg s^2]^0.5 (51) {Qm} = (N11/N9)^0.5 [1.488513052x10^-15 kg^2]^0.5 (52) {Qm} = ((N11/N9)^0.5) 3.85812(53)x10^-8 kg (53) >From (16) we obtain {Qd}: {Qm} = (1/N3) (1/N2) (h/c) (1/{Qd}) (54) {Qd} = ((N11/N9)^-0.5)(1/N3)(1/N2)[(6.6260755(40)x10^-34 kg m^2 s^-1)/ (299792458 m s^-1)] (1/{Qm}) (55) {Qd} = ((N11/N9)^-0.5)(1/N3)(1/N2)(2.210220879x10^-42 kg m) (1/(3.85812(53)x10^-8 kg)) (56) {Qd} = ((N11/N9)1^-0.5)(1/N3)(1/N2) 5.72874(32)x10^-35 m (57) >From (8) we have: {Qt} = {Qd}/c (58) {Qt} = (N11^-0.5)(1/N3)(1/N2)(5.72874(32)x10^-35 m)/ (299792458 m s^-1) (59) {Qt} = (N11^-0.5)(1/N3)(1/N2) 1.910903(04)x10^-43 s (60) The question at hand is what has been learned, if anything, from this examination of the assumtions, so far? This seems to have been a somewhat unproductive and error prone approach. The following is an attempt to begin to rethink and recover some of the above. Sorry for starting the equations numbers over. STARTING OVER - BEGINNING WITH PHOTONS Though mass assigned to photons is not conventional, it has meaning in conventional physics with regard to mass delivered by the photon energy. Let's see where the assumption that photons have an associated mass leads. Suppose we have a photon1 with minimum energy {Qe}, mass m1, wavelength lambda1, then, using m = E/c^2: m1 = {Qe}/c^2 (1) but {Qm} <= m1 so: {Qm} =< {Qe}/c^2 (2) {Qm}c^2 =< {Qe} (3) Suppose we have a photon2 with minimum mass {Qm}, energy E2: E2 = {Qm}c^2 (4) but {Qe} <= E2 so: {Qe} =< {Qm}c^2 (5) but taking (3) and (5) together we have: {Qm}c^2 =< {Qe} =< {Qm}c^2 (6) {Qm}c^2 = {Qe} (7) c^2 = {Qe}/{Qm} (8) thus photon1 and photon2 are exactly the same, m1={Qm}, and E2 = {Qe}. If c = {Qd}/{Qt} (9) we have: {Qm}{Qd}^2={Qe}{Qt}^2 (10) Suppose we have photon3 with minimum wavelength {Qd}, energy Emax, mass Mmax: Emax = h c/{Qd} (11) Since {Qd} is the smallest possible wavelength, Emax is the largest possible energy for a photon. Emax = Mmax C^2 (12) So Mmax is the largest feasible mass for a photon. Substituting (8): Emax = Mmax {Qe}/{Qm} (13) which is no surprise because energy and mass always remain in proportion. For a photon, assume the more commoly accepted: E = p c (14) p = h/lambda (15) For photon4 of minimum energy {Qe}, momentum p4, we have: {Qe} = p4 c (16) p4 = {Qe}/c (17) {Qp} =< p4 = {Qe}/c (18) {Qp} c =< {Qe} (19) For photon5 of minimum momentum {Qp}, energy E5 we have: E5 = {Qp} c (20) {Qe} =< E5 = {Qp} c (21) Combining (19) and (21): {Qp} c =< {Qe} =< {Qp} c (22) {Qp} c = {Qe} (23) Note that for photon3 of minimum wavelength {Qd}, momentum Pmax, we have Pmax = h/{Qd} (24) For a photon with the smallest feasible momentum {Qp} we have the largest feasible wavelength Wmax: {Qp} = h/Wmax (25) Wmax = h/{Qp} (26) If we knew {Qp} we could determine Wmax and look for signs of a maximum photon. If we could determine the maximum photon size we could then determine {Qp} and {Qe} etc. However, {Qp} is so small that the maximum size photon is not likely to be observable. For angular momentum use: L = r P (27) The smallest possible angular momentum Lmin is thus the smallest possible momentum {Qp} at the smallest possible radius {Qd}: Lmin = {Qd} {Qp} (28) We know that for some integer N1 and the quantum of angular momentum {Qpa}, Lmin = N1 {Qpa} (29) Lmin <= (Qpa} (30) for any momentum from (27) we have: L = (n1 {Qd}) (N3 {Qp}) (31) So chose L to be the quantum of angular momentum {Qpa}: {Qpa} = (N1 {Qd}) (N3 {Qp}) (32) {Qpa} = (N1 N3) {Qd} {Qp} = (N1 N3) Lmin (33) so {Qpa} =< Lmin (34) which, combined with (30): {Qpa} =< Lmin <= (Qpa} (34) so {Qpa} = Lmin (35) {Qpa} = {Qp} {Qd} (36) Note that this only applies to physical motion. If angular momentum can somehow be attributed to motionless entities, i.e singularities, then equation (32) does not hold, thus {Qp} = {Qp} {Qd} does not necessarily hold. Angular momentum due to spin is thus in question. Numerous other formulations need similar evaluations. The above represents a sample of methods to approach a theory based upon quantization of all fundamental units. The question now arises if these assumptions and methods lead to a self-contradiction. We presently have from (8) and (19): {Qe} = h {Qp} = h^2 {Qm} (36) {Qe} > {Qp} > {Qm} (37) and from (25): Wmax {Qp} = h (38) it appears that the larger the wavelength the lighter the lightest possible photon. The lighter the photon the less momentum and the larger the wavelength. It seems like a runaway problem resulting in {Qm}, etc., vanishing. However, substituting (36) into (38) we derive: {Qe} = Wmax {Qp}^2 (39) so we have an invariant: Wmax = {Qe}/{Qp}^2 (40) Maybe this course of analysis will eventually yield something. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 05:58:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA30704; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:50:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:50:18 -0700 Message-ID: <027301bf0501$0db47660$82441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "Robin van Spaandonk" Cc: References: <018a01bf0369$4e28a840$82441d26 fjsparber> <021101bf0415$e7ea9cc0$82441d26@fjsparber> <025901bf04ca$7be9fba0$82441d26@fjsparber> Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:46:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"iAXcs.0.gV7.92Dwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30451 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW, According to J.A. Stratton; Electromagnetic Theory, McGraw-Hill, 1941 and other EE experts, metals have a Dielectric Constant: Propagation velocity, V = c/sqrt(0.5*k*(sqrt(1+(1.04305E18/(k*f)**2)+1)) This is a computerese equation that will plot out Velocity vs frequency for copper with a conductivity of 5.8E7 mho/meter. k = relative dielectric constant of copper A velocity vs frequency curve shows that at 1.0E13 hz and up, the dielectric constant is 1.0E5*eo and the propagation velocity is constant at 1.0E6 meters/sec at any frequency above 1.0E13 hz at k = 1.0E4*eo f = 1.0E14 hz and upV is constant at 5.0E6 meters/sec at k = 1.0E3*eo f = 1E15 hz and up V is constant at 1.0E7 meters/sec at k = 1.0E2*eo f = 1.0E16 hz and up V is constant at 5.0E7 meters/sec IOW, If the Zero Point Fields (as depicted) appear in a lossy dielectric such as water or metal plates, they will be confined and exert an outward force and push against metal plates or nanobubble surfaces. IOW II, Nanobubbles cannot form without the assistance of ZPE fields P - Po = 2*surface tension/radius ~= 1,000 atm, just doesn't allow creation of nanobubbles from a few millimeters of vapor pressure. :-) IOW III, If you want to trap ZPE use a high dielectric constant and high surface tension material, and when the bubble collapses you get the OU-Zero Point Energy. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 09:15:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA25978; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:12:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:12:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:16:38 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , John Schnurer Subject: Any Vos in Taiwan? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WpZq81.0.hL6.a_Fwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30453 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Are there any Vos in or near Taiwan? I would like to correspond on the topic of earthquakes, please. J H Schnurer From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 09:18:38 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA24644; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:10:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:10:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:15:20 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , John Schnurer cc: William Beaty Subject: How do I know if I am on Vortex, or Vortex -L ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5w0Yf3.0.w06.C-Fwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30452 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, What is Vortex L ... and how do I know if I am on Vortex and Vortex L? How do I get on Voretx-L ... if I am not already on it... and how do I get on plain Vortex... I would like to be on Vortex and Vortex L J PS: I am NOT great on computer, so I need BBGB for how to get on, thanks, J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 09:44:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA10851; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E90655.9BBF77AD bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:39:49 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: ZIPP Fusion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m0uy71.0.Lf2.xPGwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30454 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This message was on another listserver. I have not seen this discussed here that I recall. Ya gotta like his attitude. Terry <><><><><><><><><><><><> From: Mark Porringa Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 7:07 PM Subject: Fw: ZIPP Fusion/ZeroPoint Energy Research Dear Sir/Ms: Given your apparent interest in ZERO POINT ENERGY topics, I would like to introduce you to the revolutionary paradigm shift of low energy induced NUCLEAR FUSION. The attached file contains an introduction to a new class of Fusion reaction based in CASIMIR effects of the ZERO POINT FIELD of Quantum mechanics. I recently published a short synopsis of this article in the international newsletter of the Planetary Association for Clean Energy; a learned society of advanced Energy and related technologies. The simple process which I prefer to call ZIPP Fusion for convenience, produces visible quantities of iron and other elements from the apparent fusion of CO molecules in a simple carbon arc electrolysis cell without neutrons or other detectable radiation. This device and other related ZERO POINT ENERGY technologies will have dramatic and far reaching implications in the coming century on par with the development of semi-conductors or possibly even the electrification of society itself. Although the theory is based in Quantum Mechanics, it is really quite simple and most of the fundamentals have been in place for decades, although largely ignored by mainstream science. This new fusion process can be easily reproduced by even primitively equipped labs or even the home hobbiest with some very basic equipment, so I hope to stimulate some independent research and verification through this disclosure. I have chosen the rather peculiar and unbeaten path of full public disclosure in conjunction with patenting, to eliminate the possibility of suppression from those having a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. With thousands of individuals like yourself aware of the technology, the incentive to try and silence the inventor is eliminated, and this is the primary reason that you been notified of these dramatic developments. A patent pending designation on the basis of a recently filed provisional application is anticipated shortly, but in the event that the US patent office slaps me with a gag order, I have taken these steps to ensure their efforts are futile. This blatant misuse of the patent system should not be tolerated. World Patent rights for ZIPP Fusion, although compromised to some extent by this disclosure, can still be negotiated for North America within the next 12 months or so, after which this technology will become public domain according to the stipulations of North American Patent Law. As such, I am encouraging individuals or organizations who have the resources to facilitate the further development and application of this and other ZPE technologies to contact me with their viable proposals, including possible licensing or assignment of patent rights for ZIPP fusion. I am also prepared to offer my services as a consultant to those interested in pursuing the incredible potential of this exciting new field of ZPE research. Based on my experience, I forsee that in the next few years we will not only harness this primordial energy source, but also engineer gravity and inertia for advanced aerospace applications(NASA is already into this), synthesize artificial matter, stabilize radioactive wastes and a whole myriad of other hyper advanced technologies, all by engineering the properties of so called "empty space". Appropriate Finders Fees will be awarded to anyone who can broker successful contracts between ZEROPOINT Research and investors interested in the further development and application of these revolutionary 22nd century technologies. The full ZIPP Fusion report containing the detailed experimental protocols and extensive bibliography can be obtained by sending $20 CDN or $15 US (cash or money order only please) to ZEROPOINT Research. For further information on this exciting field of research visit my webpage at www.magma.ca/~porringa which is presently under construction. Best Regards, Mark Porringa, PEng (Nuclear) ZEROPOINT Research RR#1 Deep River, Ontario CANADA K0J 1P0 Tel/Fax: 613-584-2960/4616 Email: porringa magma.ca From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 09:46:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11647; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E90433.7B4D ca-ois.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:30:43 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ewYWq3.0.pr2.dUGwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30455 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS > > The purpose here is to take a look at some consequences of the assumtion > that the fundamental phsyical values, distance, time, mass, and charge, and > therefore all physical values, are quantized. I have difficulty understanding the reasonable basis for this kind of assumption. Quantization implies the discontinuity of a particular physical manifestation of a phenomena. In order to describe a discontinuity, you must use something that is by definition continuous. In classical (describable) EM, time is assumed to be continous and is just a convenient way to define a sequential order of events. Time is assumed to be divisible by what ever quantity is necessary to describe any known causal or acausal sequence of observable or describable events. Now if you want to say that time is quantized or comes along discontinuously in "jumps" or something like that, you have to put THAT in terms of something else that is assumed to be continouos (let's say unaccelerated velocity values for macroscopic objects, for example). Then it would be really helpful if you could decribe an experiment that might show that it is actually time that is quantized and not velocity, energy or anything else. OTOH, if you say everything is discontinous, or quantized, then you remove the means to define the discontinuities or quantizations in terms of something that is continuous or unquantized. Doing this just makes no sense to me at all. What sort of logic are you proceeding with? (mega-snip) > > > it appears that the larger the wavelength the lighter the lightest possible > photon. The lighter the photon the less momentum and the larger the > wavelength. It seems like a runaway problem resulting in {Qm}, etc., > vanishing. However, substituting (36) into (38) we derive: > > {Qe} = Wmax {Qp}^2 (39) > > so we have an invariant: > > Wmax = {Qe}/{Qp}^2 (40) > > Maybe this course of analysis will eventually yield something. Something like what? Do you hope this process results in some kind of experimentally testable idea? Or doesn't that matter to you? Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 10:51:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15008; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:50:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:50:50 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:50:42 -1000 Subject: Re: ZIPP Fusion From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909221350649.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"xbRPI2.0.Qg3.vRHwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30456 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - (thanks for the easy opportunity to rant) > Ya gotta like his attitude. I sure don't. It reeks of yet another little parasitic scam. Send him $15 dollars for a synopsis of his "informal research" which concludes that something might come of this ZPE low energy nuclear reaction stuff someday? Get a finder's fee for bringing in "investors"? Or should we like his attitude because he claims to be openly releasing information on some supposed patent application? Where's the device, the experiment, the results, the info? Where's the description - any description? Nowhere to be found on his moronic "under-construction" web site with the ridiculous annoying graphics and dead links. Most 9 year olds build better web sites these days. I mean, if you have some important info to distribute to the world, has there ever been an easier and quicker way to do it than the web? He can't even do that. And he claims he "runs a reactor"?! Well now at least we know his true identity: Homer Simpson! Do-oh, stoopid internet. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 11:04:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20180; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:02:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:02:43 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990922140135.0079eaf0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:01:35 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: ZIPP Fusion In-Reply-To: <199909221350649.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tSJ4d1.0.Mw4.1dHwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30457 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Rites: >Do-oh, stoopid internet. Isn't that spelled Du' oh? The comments about Zipp (-pedee do-dah) fusion were right on the mark. I get a laugh out of people who "release" information about patented machines. It's like Newman threatening to sue people for using ideas he does not own. A lunatic stands in a public park waving a stick, yelling that the people passing by are trespassers. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 11:42:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01909; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:40:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:40:55 -0700 Message-ID: <37E92313.29C41140 bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:42:27 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: ZIPP Fusion References: <199909221350649.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ApCEL1.0.aT.sAIwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30458 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > > Terry - > > (thanks for the easy opportunity to rant) Well, you seem to have a difficult time forming an opinion! ;-) Okay, ya wanna rant? Well, tell me what you think about this one: http://www.unitelnw.com/ Quoting from a recent email from them: Subject: UNITEL: Quantum Computer on the Move Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:28:27 +0100 From: "System Administrator " Reply-To: newsletter unitelnw.com READY TO BUILD THE HOLO-1 QUANTUM COMPUTER The completion of the first practical quantum computer is near at hand. The Microphysics Laboratory staff at the University of Illinois at Chicago (http://www.uic.edu/depts/mplab) have agreed to construct and test our initial prototype and talk to any interested investors on behalf of Unitel. Ted Williams of Keele Univ. UK, Jim Janesick, Faculty UCLA and Director, Sensor Div., Pixel Vision, Inc. & Ernie Brown of Unitel will be developing the instruction set using HOLO-1's quantum logic gates. Calculations and I/O functions will be done with radar and NMR techniques. In lieu of all of this, Unitel has reduced the minimum investment amount to $1000 in order to create a more affordable situation for investors. The previous minimum was set at $5K at 1/10 of 1% or 1/2 share. This all boils down to the fact that anyone that invests a minimum amount of $1K has a chance to gain much profit in the future. After all, the future of computing is quantum computing... BTW, in case this doesn't work out, they are building a starship also. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 11:49:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA05979; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:48:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37E924C4.7E45FFFD bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:49:40 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Quantum Computer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"e948E1.0.LT1.bHIwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30459 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OOps! Sorry for the lousy formatting. Also, their web site is: http://www.unitelnw.com I ran across them doing some comm research (well, they *sound* like a phone company!) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 11:52:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07537; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:50:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:50:44 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:50:31 -1000 Subject: Re: ZIPP Fusion From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909221450836.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"Q5zKS.0.er1.0KIwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30460 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - > BTW, in case this doesn't work out, they are building a starship > also. Well, now THAT I'm interested in! Jed: Du' oh, kick my stoopid spell checker. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 12:25:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA18565; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:22:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:22:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:22:19 -1000 Subject: Re: Quantum Computer From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909221522446.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"aPtUF2.0.yX4.vnIwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30461 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - > OOps! Sorry for the lousy formatting. > > Also, their web site is: > > http://www.unitelnw.com > > I ran across them doing some comm research (well, they *sound* > like a phone company!) > > Terry Ok, this one really *is* a joke, right? I wonder if these people are old enough to recognize how similar their RGB spacecraft propulsion "lens" is to those motor driven colored light filters that used to lurk behind Christmas trees and so forth decades ago? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 12:52:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA25587; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:46:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:46:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990922154126.00799720 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:41:26 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"SZM873.0.oD6.S6Jwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30462 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/07/18/stinwenws02029.html?999 http://www.msnbc.com/news/314049.asp?cp1=1 - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 12:55:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29075; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:54:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:54:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37E93437.C811526F bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:55:35 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Computer References: <199909221522446.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9lf9s.0.867.RFJwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30463 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > Ok, this one really *is* a joke, right? I wonder if these people are old > enough to recognize how similar their RGB spacecraft propulsion "lens" is to > those motor driven colored light filters that used to lurk behind Christmas > trees and so forth decades ago? Hmmm, I thought it looked like that Martian probe head that Gene Barry lopped off with an ax in "War of the Worlds". I honestly don't know what Unitel is up to. If you research their associates, you find they appear to be qualified people, eg: Dr. Terence W. Barrett http://www.wspc.com.sg/books/physics/2599.html or Claudio Maccone http://www.setileague.org/editor/skyfill.htm Or, maybe it's a hoax and none of these associates are really affiliated with Unitel. Fantasy? Reality? I love the web! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 14:02:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10036; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909222056.QAA22033 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: Quantum Computer Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:51:55 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Qnebz2.0.YS2.SCKwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30464 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Ok, this one really *is* a joke, right? I wonder if these people are old > enough to recognize how similar their RGB spacecraft propulsion "lens" is to > those motor driven colored light filters that used to lurk behind Christmas > trees and so forth decades ago? I've talked to Larry Maurer who runs Unitel...what he had to say was...interesting... I don't necessarily speak here in a positive tone about it though. :) One particular thing I heard him say was something about not knowing where this (Unitel's) technology came from, whether from ouselves from the future (!), aliens (!!!), or something else...hmmm... Go to: http://www.unitel.com It says: Unitel inc., international intelligence and security advisors to management. Don't sound like what is above, does it? Now, go to: http://www.unitelnw.com It says: Unitel inc., unlocking the secrets of quantum technology. Two Unitel's, two very different descriptions. Anybody got ideas? I'm thinking hoax, or misguided individuals. --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 14:31:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02970; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:29:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:29:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199909222106.RAA10475 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: ZIPP Fusion Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:01:39 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"npx1Q2.0.3k.VeKwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30465 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Rick Rites: > > >Do-oh, stoopid internet. > > Isn't that spelled Du' oh? Hmmm...all the Simpson's paraphernalia I've seen spells it "Doh," usually with an exclamation point following... > The comments about Zipp (-pedee do-dah) fusion were right on the mark. I > get a laugh out of people who "release" information about patented > machines. I've seen a copy of this guy's technical report...it isn't technical at all. Just speculation. Notice all the funky capitalization in his letter to Terry...not to mention the "full public disclosure bit". In my experience, full public disclosure generally means to disseminate freely, meaning, no charge, here's your information, have a nice day. We don't see that here. And since we're on the subject, to quote the almighty Homer: "Mmmmm....doughnuts!!!" --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 15:59:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30572; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:57:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:57:56 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: How do I know if I am on Vortex, or Vortex -L ? Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:05:17 -0400 Message-ID: <19990922230517765.AAA130 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"XGHkN2.0.cT7.qxLwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30466 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > What is Vortex L ... and how do I know if I am on Vortex and >Vortex L? Hi John, The initial Vortex Group was broken into several different lists for various reasons, mainly to try and keep the discussions managable. Vortex and Vortex-L, I think, are the same thing. Bill and Nanook (the sysop from Eskimo North, the internet server that runs these things) experimented in the beginning with a couple of different UNIX listserv programs that had their own idiosyracies. One of the programs required that the last letter in the list designation be capitalized, hence, we had to use the term Vortex-L instead of Vortex-l. The other groups that are spin-offs of Vortex are the FreeNRG Group, Vortcore-l, and vortexb-l. I think you are already subscribed to FreeNRG, as I've seen some of your posts. Vortcore was suppose to be for people who were performing experiments only. This hasn't been used much at all recently. Vortexb-l is supposed to be for off topic dialog. It does get used on occasion. If you are serious about learning how to make better use of your computer, I would first focus on getting a full internet connection with browsing capabilities. From there, you can look up any subject, and find mountains of help available. When I started computing in 1984, I bought and gave away two entire libraries of printed books and publications that were computer related. Now, I get all my information online, and it is of much higher quality, too. My small hardrives contain more information than both my libraries combined ever did, and the links that I've gathered over the years point to sites that have far more information in them than I would have thought possible 15 years ago. Getting a browser up and running is key. Since I don't know what kind of machine you are using, I can't give you specific help, but if you want to contact me privately with that information, I'd be glad to share what little I know to get you into the InfoAge :) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 16:17:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA02977; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:15:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:15:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199909222315.TAA01722 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: How do I know if I am on Vortex, or Vortex -L ? Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:10:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TD7163.0.Mk.OCMwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30467 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Dear Folks, > > What is Vortex L ... and how do I know if I am on Vortex and > Vortex L? > > How do I get on Voretx-L ... if I am not already on it... and how > do I get on plain Vortex... > I would like to be on Vortex and Vortex L Vortex is just shorthand for Vortex-L. They're the same thing. The other lists are: Freenrg-L, which you already know of VortexB-L, an informal discussion group for off topic stuff Vortcor-L, I think this is for experiment postings only...??? VortexC-L, the torsion physics group, or 'twist' list as it's been nicknamed by some. I think that's all of them, but I could be mistaken. --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 16:41:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10570; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:39:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:39:53 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: How do I know if I am on Vortex, or Vortex -L ? Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:47:13 -0400 Message-ID: <19990922234713375.AAA244 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"7GnVh2.0.za2.8ZMwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30468 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Vortex is just shorthand for Vortex-L. They're the same thing. The other >lists are: > >Freenrg-L, which you already know of >VortexB-L, an informal discussion group for off topic stuff >Vortcor-L, I think this is for experiment postings only...??? >VortexC-L, the torsion physics group, or 'twist' list as it's been >nicknamed by some. > >I think that's all of them, but I could be mistaken. > >--Kyle R. Mcallister How could I have forgotten VortexC?!! This stuff is right up your weird alley, John:) Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 18:11:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA31186; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:10:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:10:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: HOLO Quantum Question .. In-Reply-To: <37E92313.29C41140 bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3ZUvz.0.Cd7.ytNwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30469 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Rick and Terry... I send some question to these folks.. but never got back a sensible response. See flag, in text, below: On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > Rick Monteverde wrote: > > > > Terry - > > > > (thanks for the easy opportunity to rant) > > Well, you seem to have a difficult time forming an opinion! ;-) > > Okay, ya wanna rant? Well, tell me what you think about this > one: > > http://www.unitelnw.com/ > > Quoting from a recent email from them: > > Subject: UNITEL: Quantum Computer on the Move > Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:28:27 +0100 > From: "System Administrator " > Reply-To: newsletter unitelnw.com > > READY TO BUILD THE HOLO-1 QUANTUM COMPUTER > > The completion of the first practical quantum computer is near at > hand. The > Microphysics Laboratory staff at the University of Illinois at > Chicago > (http://www.uic.edu/depts/mplab) have agreed to construct and > test our > initial prototype and talk to any interested investors on behalf > of Unitel. ____________________________________________ ===== FLAG START Note: Anyone know of people at these schools or businesses? > Ted Williams of Keele Univ. UK, Jim Janesick, Faculty UCLA and > Director, > Sensor Div., Pixel Vision, Inc. & Ernie Brown of Unitel will be > developing > the instruction set using HOLO-1's quantum logic gates. > Calculations and I/O > functions will be done with radar and NMR techniques. > Q: SO: the software will be developed with the gates.... Right? And the calculations, I guess maybe add, subtract, multiply, divide ... FFT, integrate, and so on will be done with radar and the precession of maybe protons? ... If the code run is developed by quantum gates....and the math is done with radar and NMR ,, then where IS the computer??? J ========= FLAG ENDIT ====================== > > > In lieu of all of this, Unitel has reduced the minimum investment > amount to > $1000 in order to create a more affordable situation for > investors. The > previous minimum was set at $5K at 1/10 of 1% or 1/2 share. This > all boils > down to the fact that anyone that invests a minimum amount of $1K > has a > chance to gain much profit in the future. After all, the future > of > computing is quantum computing... > > > > BTW, in case this doesn't work out, they are building a starship > also. > > Terry > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 18:27:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA03088; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:24:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:24:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:28:41 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Computer In-Reply-To: <199909222056.QAA22033 fh105.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gIgrE2.0.Am.z4Owt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30470 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Guys, The best of my digging led to a partially educated "New Age Science" fellow. Can not recall his name at present, I will try to dig up my notes. He was-is sort of well meaning... but crossed the line. Quantum computer theory and practice is a few years old. This fellow glued some press releases togsther and is trying to raise money. The method is either borderline or completely illegal, maybe SEC, maybe comm over interstate lines. Keep your money in you wallet. When I find my background, I will post part of it. On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > > > Ok, this one really *is* a joke, right? I wonder if these people are old > > enough to recognize how similar their RGB spacecraft propulsion "lens" is > to > > those motor driven colored light filters that used to lurk behind > Christmas > > trees and so forth decades ago? > > I've talked to Larry Maurer who runs Unitel...what he had to say > was...interesting... I don't necessarily speak here in a positive tone > about it though. :) One particular thing I heard him say was something > about not knowing where this (Unitel's) technology came from, whether from > ouselves from the future (!), aliens (!!!), or something else...hmmm... > > Go to: http://www.unitel.com > It says: Unitel inc., international intelligence and security advisors to > management. Don't sound like what is above, does it? > > Now, go to: http://www.unitelnw.com > It says: Unitel inc., unlocking the secrets of quantum technology. > > Two Unitel's, two very different descriptions. Anybody got ideas? I'm > thinking hoax, or misguided individuals. > > --Kyle R. Mcallister > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 18:47:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA09503; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:45:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:45:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37E97A9D.655455A5 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 03:55:57 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Computer References: <199909222056.QAA22033 fh105.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r8u_e.0.MK2.LPOwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30471 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually they give a description of holographic storage device (in technical section), not a computer (logical gates). The computer part appears comes from their imagination IMO, maybe in principle will use the same principles (quantum?) or materials. It is not clear they even build a prototype for their storage device. I feel my self skeptic each time I hear the "quantum" word. :) hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 22 19:55:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA22063; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:49:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:49:03 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:56:01 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"Qguwo1.0.ZO5.UKPwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30472 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 9:30 AM 9/22/99, Jim Ostrowski wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: >> >> THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS >> >> The purpose here is to take a look at some consequences of the assumtion >> that the fundamental phsyical values, distance, time, mass, and charge, and >> therefore all physical values, are quantized. > > I have difficulty understanding the reasonable basis for this kind of >assumption. This is just use of the definitions: a quantized physical value is one that only occurs in integer multiples of some basic value called the quantum unit of that physical value. The integer multiple of an occurance of a physical value is called its quantum number. The reasonableness lies in questioning the hypothesis that energy occurs in quantized units (an issue raised on vortex as reflected in the post history included below.) If energy is quantized, it can readily be shown that none of the fundamental units making up energy, i.e. mass, distance, or time, can be continuous, i.e. non-quantized. Since charge is readily accepted as quantized, the assumption that the other three fundamental values are quantized seems an even stronger choice for a logical exploration than the hypothesis that energy is quantized. Exploring the question regarding the truth of a hypothesis A is simply to assume either A, or not A, is true. If only A or not A is true, and the assumption leads to an obvious contradiction, then the opposite hypothesis must be true. On the other hand, as often happens in physical theories, the hypothesis holds and deduction of both well known and unknown consequences follows. A successful physical test of a deduced but previously unknown consequence is the best scientific evidence of the strength of a new theory. The objective of an assumption, or working hypothesis, is thus achieving one or the other above outcomes, rejection or confirmation. Of course, keeping an open mind is vital to the scientifc approach, especially until replication of any new result is achieved. This is all pablum. >> Maybe this course of analysis will eventually yield something. > >Something like what? Do you hope this process results in some kind of >experimentally testable idea? Or doesn't that matter to you? > >Jim Ostrowski Either testable new conclusions or demonstration of a logical inconsistancy would be desirable. This is not always possible, however. Recognizing the importance of some previously unthought question may be reward enough though. For example, we now have fairly rigorously established the importance of the existence of a maximum photon wavelength. If photons do not have an upper bound on wavelength then energy is not quantized. Since this seems so anti-intuitive, it strikes me as fairly strong evidence against the quantization of energy. However, the surprising result is that energy being continuous implies that not all three of mass time and distance can be quantized - which implies that angular momentum can not be quantized. However, experimentally, we know angular momentum is in realty not continuous. If angular momentum is quantized, then we have already shown energy must also be quantized, and thus all three of mass, time, and distance must be quantized. Though I did not raise the initial issue, I have attempted to come up with some answers, and thought maybe I had some in the form of estimates or bounds on the fundamental quantum units. At this point their interrelations are partially described, with much more but nearly automatic analysis to do to draw further conclusions. Exploration of charge, the Bohr magneton, ratio of charge to mass, relativistic values, etc., haven't yet commenced. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for me to come up with enough time to deal with this now. However, I think there is now possibly at least some basis laid down for answering some of the questions and settling some of the issues Rick Monteverde and John Logajan have raised, though I may have numerous mistakes. For example, the implicit assumption that any resulting physical value (z) must have physical antecedents (x and y). It will be a while before I get the time to look at all this carefully. Please be patient. If anyone knows of work already done along the lines of quantization of all the fundamental units it would be nice to hear about it. At 6:23 AM 9/17/99, Horace Heffner wrote: >At 11:15 AM 9/16/99, Rick Monteverde wrote: >>Scott - >> >>Is it just me or are all these arguments about energy levels ultimately >>circular? Those incoming photons had to come from somewhere - matter which >>emmited them in quantized energies which ordinary matter can recognize. So >>all detectors will routinely pick up only those photons having just those >>energies. Either those represent *all* possibly existing energy states (what >>I take is the mainstream view), or there are unknown numbers of photons from >>unknown processes with partial energies blowing through ordinary matter all >>day long without interacting, and are thus forever out of reach of all >>detectors comprised of normal matter (the crackpot neo-classical view hoped >>for by people like myself). >> >>Is the question about somehow 'tuning' normal matter to interact with >>partial quantum levels? Have there been other detection schemes to find if >>such photons exist? Does this somehow impinge on the Mills' work - hydrinos >>sitting practically undetectable at some odd energy level? > >Hi, > >I just signed back on to lurk a while, because I don't have time for >comment, but can not resist commenting on this thread, even if I am a bit >late. Pardon me if I cover old ground. > >It seems to me that if E=h*nu then clearly all energy is not quantized, at >least not by atomic sized quanta. This is because the doppler effect is >based upon relative velocity, and velocity (time and distance) is not >quantized at a level corresponding to energy increments from atoms, or >quanta of magnetic flux, if at all. Since nearly all matter is in relative >motion we can expect that almost no photons absorbed (thus imposing a >relative velocity) are containing exact multiples of atomic quanta, due to >fine shifts in frequency imposed by the doppler shift. If the wavelength >can change in superfine increments, then E=h*nu implies that so does the >energy. > >Some of the energy of an impacting photon is absorbed in the form of >kinetic energy, i.e. heat, both of the receiving atom (which gets >translated at least in part to phonons if the atom is in a lattice) and >possibly of free electrons, including any freed by the incoming photon. If >I recall correctly, even some lattice interactions do not rise to the level >of the quantized energy of phonons. There are mechanisms for sharing small >parcels of energy, in the form of kinetic energy, and in the form of >effects on conduction band electrons. When photons are absorbed some goes >into a change of quantized state of the absorbing atom, some energy might >be re-emitted at a lower energy level (i.e. wavelength) and some is >converted to kinetic energy. > >Free electrons can emit and absorb radiant energy via acceleration, which >is not governed by atomic state, thus which can not be quantized, at least >not in a manner related to atomic states. Any quantization of radiation >from free electron acceleration must be very fine by comparison. It seems >to me emissions from an antenna are very finely quantized, if at all. > >Also of interest is the fact that even atoms do not necessaryily emit and >absorb in quantized units. A good example of this is the specra of Rydberg >orbitals - special orbitals created in very strong magnetic fields. These >orbitals are highly complex paths involving many close passes to the >nucleus, many turns about the nucleus, in a single closed orbital. In the >outer portions of Rydberg orbitals the electron motion is slow and >planetary like, not fuzzy like the typical electron orbital. This is due to >cancellation of the parts of the quantum waveform caused by imposition of >the strong magnetic field, making occupation of large volumes of the atom >off limits, thus giving a concrete orbit like portion of the orbital. The >result is a blurring or widening of the spectral lines of atoms containing >electrons in Rydberg orbitals. The ionization energy of electrons in these >orbitals is very small. They are outermost energy states, not near ground >state. > >I think it is interesting that when a photon is absorbed the momentum must >be absorbed also, regardless the relative velocity of the emitter and >absorber. It seems quite a trick that both energy and momentum can balance >out simultaneously. > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner At 10:46 PM 9/18/99, Horace Heffner wrote: >At 9:36 PM 9/17/99, John Logajan wrote: >>Horace Heffner wrote: >>> It seems to me that if E=h*nu then clearly all energy is not quantized, at >>> least not by atomic sized quanta. This is because the doppler effect is >>> based upon relative velocity, and velocity (time and distance) is not >>> quantized at a level corresponding to energy increments from atoms, or >>> quanta of magnetic flux, if at all. Since nearly all matter is in >>relative >>> motion we can expect that almost no photons absorbed (thus imposing a >>> relative velocity) are containing exact multiples of atomic quanta, due to >>> fine shifts in frequency imposed by the doppler shift. If the wavelength >>> can change in superfine increments, then E=h*nu implies that so does the >>> energy. >> >>Actually, the finest irreducible granularity of quanta would be if >>time itself came in irreducible jumps. If time is continuous, all >>energies are possible. > >This is an interesting question as to which unit would be more finely >quantized, time or distance, and by how much, I think. I agree it is >likely time, but it is notably relevant that the very assumption of the >existence of small units of time, e.g. units less than 10^-20 second, is >DEDUCED based upon the very law under discussion, namely E=h*nu, not >directly measured, as Feynman points out in his lectures. > >About quantized energy, if either time or distance is continuous then >velocity is continuous, thus the doppler shifted values would be >continuous, thus energy could not be assumed to exist only in quantized >units. > >> >>However, photons are still "quanta" or packetized. We know this >>because although you can vary the brightness of a light source, >>say a mono-frequency red laser producing either 1 watt or 100 >>watts, they still both cause the same eV effect on electrons >>they interact with. >> >>In this way we know that brightness is due to many parallel >>packets, each with its own equal energy (in the case of a >>mono-frequency laser) and that "packet" energy is determined >>by color, regardless of brightness. > > >Yes, but this is E = h*nu equation really does not provide any quantization >of energy. Since nu can be anything E can be anything. Doppler and >relativistic shifts can alter lambda, possibly ion a continuous fashion. >All we really know for sure is that light travels in packets. I have >made an effort to remedy this in a post to be sent with this called "The >Fundamental Quantum Units". Have fun! > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 08:50:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00680; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:47:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:47:12 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:55:17 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, "Robin van Spaandonk" From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Cc: Resent-Message-ID: <"kgF-V2.0.LA.-jawt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30473 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 6:46 AM 9/22/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >IOW, If the Zero Point Fields (as depicted) appear in a lossy dielectric >such as water or metal plates, they will be confined and exert an outward >force and push against metal plates or nanobubble surfaces. > >IOW II, Nanobubbles cannot form without the assistance of ZPE fields > >P - Po = 2*surface tension/radius ~= 1,000 atm, just doesn't allow >creation >of nanobubbles from a few millimeters of vapor pressure. :-) This does not seem right. The bubbles exclude some portion of the ZPE spectrum from their interior, depending on cavity size. This results in the Casimir force that pushes inward, thus retarding bubble formation, true? The smaller the bubble the greater the resistance to radius increase from the ZPF, because a higher frequency is excluded from smaller cavities. Do I have this right? > >IOW III, If you want to trap ZPE use a high dielectric constant and >high surface tension material, and when the bubble collapses you get >the OU-Zero Point Energy. Yes - you get back the energy it cost to form the bubble in the first place. Net energy gained from the ZPF is zero, right? Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 09:15:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02293; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E9A688.2DA3 ca-ois.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:03:20 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth References: <3.0.6.32.19990922154126.00799720 pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rO_gl2.0.jZ.nrawt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30474 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > See: > > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/07/18/stinwenws02029.html?999 > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/314049.asp?cp1=1 > Big Ion Collider Destroys Earth! Now that's an attention getting headline! It ain't in the Bible so it can't happen. Fire up that sucker! Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 09:23:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA27052; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:21:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:21:42 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:26:53 EDT Subject: Re: Wacky Water To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: tekcorman yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"tvHNZ1.0.Xc6.LEbwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30475 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ron, Where and when did that Wacky Water article appear? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 09:44:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06676; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:43:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:43:30 -0700 Message-ID: <37EA588B.215A ca-ois.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:42:51 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rmep11.0.-d1.mYbwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30476 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 9:30 AM 9/22/99, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > >Horace Heffner wrote: > >> > >> THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS > >> > >> The purpose here is to take a look at some consequences of the assumtion > >> that the fundamental phsyical values, distance, time, mass, and charge, and > >> therefore all physical values, are quantized. > > > > I have difficulty understanding the reasonable basis for this kind of > >assumption. > > This is just use of the definitions: a quantized physical value is one that > only occurs in integer multiples of some basic value called the quantum > unit of that physical value. The integer multiple of an occurance of a > physical value is called its quantum number. > > The reasonableness lies in questioning the hypothesis that energy occurs in > quantized units (an issue raised on vortex as reflected in the post history > included below.) If energy is quantized, it can readily be shown that none > of the fundamental units making up energy, i.e. mass, distance, or time, > can be continuous, i.e. non-quantized. OK, then I must question the idea that time is quantized and that that somehow follows from the argument from observation (the photoelectric effect) that energy is quantized and can be "readily shown". Where did you show this in your analysis? It seems to me that the standard textbook argument from observation postulated is that energy is quantized or propagates discontinously as photon packets in RELATION to time which is assumed to be continuous. If time is continuous then time can be subdivided into any infinitely small increments as required to describe the discontinuity of energy in relation to contiguous duration periods. The reasons for the "apparent" discontinuity of the energy might be arguable, and you can even say that it is not the energy that is discontinuous, but rather that time is discontinuous, but BOTH? How can that be? In another post, you asked: > Does energy only come in fixed size packets? and I said: Either that or the energy detector exists during fixed size packets of time. The idea that is proposed here is not that time istelf comes in fixed sized packets, but that the object which is used in the detection of energy (the detector) exists AT a place as a probability "wave" function where the axes are "time" (continuous) and "appearance" of the detector (discontinous in relation to time). In this model, energy may or may not be quantized, but if absorber objects (detectors) exist as a wave function (psi) the emitters must at least be "synchronized" in a phase relationship with the emitter's existence or "appearance" wavefunction value. It seems to me that a simple test of this could be performed by vibrating the detector at multiples of angstom units assumed to be involved in the detection mechanism. Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 09:58:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA14732; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: ZIPP Fusion Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:46:01 -0400 Message-ID: <19990923034601359.AAA192 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"aCfjN2.0.6c3.Xcbwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30477 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I sure don't. It reeks of yet another little parasitic scam. > >Send him $15 dollars for a synopsis of his "informal research" which >concludes that something might come of this ZPE low energy nuclear reaction >stuff someday? Get a finder's fee for bringing in "investors"? > >Or should we like his attitude because he claims to be openly releasing >information on some supposed patent application? Where's the device, the >experiment, the results, the info? Where's the description - any >description? Nowhere to be found on his moronic "under-construction" web >site with the ridiculous annoying graphics and dead links. Most 9 year olds >build better web sites these days. I mean, if you have some important info >to distribute to the world, has there ever been an easier and quicker way to >do it than the web? He can't even do that. And he claims he "runs a >reactor"?! Well now at least we know his true identity: Homer Simpson! > >Do-oh, stoopid internet. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI Fred Epps mentioned the other day in the FreeNRG Group that he saw a demonstration of this at one of the Weird Science Club meetings. I've seen some pretty wild stuff there myself. Apparently you can do transmutations with arcs fairly easily. I question the guy's ability to determine whether or not neutrons are produced, but if he wants to publish his protocol for neutron detection, we could easily sort that one out. As for the guy's attempts to raise money to pursue the research, he just sounds like he doesn't have much experience in business, which is no crime. Sloppy webpages aren't illegal either. While I'm not in a position to give the guy any money, I will give the guy credit for trying. I'd also like to know what you would consider to be a proper way to finance a new energy project. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 10:21:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03417; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:20:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:20:44 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:25:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Who ??Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth In-Reply-To: <37E9A688.2DA3 ca-ois.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kOMZi2.0.Fr.i5cwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30480 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Who wrote it... the fellow Mathews? [sp?] Can we get ASCII version, please? On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Jim Ostrowski wrote: > Jed Rothwell wrote: > > > > See: > > > > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/07/18/stinwenws02029.html?999 > > > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/314049.asp?cp1=1 > > > > Big Ion Collider Destroys Earth! > > Now that's an attention getting headline! > > It ain't in the Bible so it can't happen. Fire up that sucker! > > Jim O. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 10:22:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA02691; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:19:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:19:52 -0700 Message-ID: <002701bf05ef$f0fd06a0$27441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:17:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"CY29x.0.xf.u4cwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30479 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Horace Heffner To: ; Robin van Spaandonk Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 10:55 PM Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Horace wrote: > At 6:46 AM 9/22/99, Frederick Sparber wrote: > [snip] > >IOW, If the Zero Point Fields (as depicted) appear in a lossy dielectric > >such as water or metal plates, they will be confined and exert an outward > >force and push against metal plates or nanobubble surfaces. > > > >IOW II, Nanobubbles cannot form without the assistance of ZPE fields > > > >P - Po = 2*surface tension/radius ~= 1,000 atm, just doesn't allow > >creation > >of nanobubbles from a few millimeters of vapor pressure. :-) > > > This does not seem right. The bubbles exclude some portion of the ZPE > spectrum from their interior, depending on cavity size. This results in > the Casimir force that pushes inward, thus retarding bubble formation, > true? The smaller the bubble the greater the resistance to radius increase > from the ZPF, because a higher frequency is excluded from smaller cavities. > Do I have this right? If the ZPE permeates all of the space between matter, why do you presume that it exerts a force from the exterior? The Casimir plate experiment assumes this, contrary to the force due to exchange-van der waals forces, ie., the induced short range forces between the surfaces of the plates. The zero point lattice fluctuations show that the forces are omnidirectional, in which case the plates being pulled together by intermolecular forces should "squish" the ZPE "waves" out the sides of the plates. :-) > > > > > >IOW III, If you want to trap ZPE use a high dielectric constant and > >high surface tension material, and when the bubble collapses you get > >the OU-Zero Point Energy. > > > Yes - you get back the energy it cost to form the bubble in the first > place. Net energy gained from the ZPF is zero, right? Wrong! Calculate the energy it takes to form a nanobubble, based on the initial nanobubble radius and the surface tension/energy of water. Casimer Force, F = Pi*h*c*Plate Area/(240*d^4) Then as the bubble "grows" due to the vapor pressure of the water which slowly condenses allowing the bubble to rapidly collapse, giving off the kinetic energy as heat (aprox 4,000 K according to pitting of metals in cavitation experiments) if the ZPE "wave" is in it's opposite phase or "collapsed" state, you get an energy gain, right? Which shows to go you, that you can conjure up any scenario you want, but Mother Nature may have other ideas. :-) Regards, Frederick > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 10:24:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24086; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:18:58 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: D' oooh Re: ZIPP Fusion In-Reply-To: <199909222106.RAA10475 fh105.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IjZnu2.0.5u5.m4cwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30478 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As I understand it, he is about to say "Damn" ... but stops himself... Marg and the Pastor ask him to stop swearing. How it is SPELLED... I do not know. J On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > > Rick Rites: > > > > >Do-oh, stoopid internet. > > > > Isn't that spelled Du' oh? > > Hmmm...all the Simpson's paraphernalia I've seen spells it "Doh," usually > with an exclamation point following... > > > The comments about Zipp (-pedee do-dah) fusion were right on the mark. I > > get a laugh out of people who "release" information about patented > > machines. > > I've seen a copy of this guy's technical report...it isn't technical at > all. Just speculation. Notice all the funky capitalization in his letter to > Terry...not to mention the "full public disclosure bit". In my experience, > full public disclosure generally means to disseminate freely, meaning, no > charge, here's your information, have a nice day. We don't see that here. > > And since we're on the subject, to quote the almighty Homer: > "Mmmmm....doughnuts!!!" > > --Kyle R. Mcallister > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 12:12:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA06396; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990923145007.007a6290 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:50:07 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth In-Reply-To: <37E9A688.2DA3 ca-ois.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990922154126.00799720 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0ZGEb.0.gZ1.Hfdwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30481 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim O. wrote: >Big Ion Collider Destroys Earth! > >Now that's an attention getting headline! Whose attention would it get? There would be nobody left to read it. I think it might destroy the entire solar system, not just Earth. Or perhaps the Earth would quietly implode into a ball of super-dense matter like the remains of a miniature super-nova. I don't take this scenario very seriously, but these people should think twice and check their equations. Apparently, it all hinges upon whether the super-dense gold atoms the produce have a positive charge or a negative charge. If it is negative, Goodby Cruel World. Some physicists expressed similar fears before they exploded the first atomic bomb. They said it might cause a chain reaction including the atoms in the atmosphere. Gen. Groves responded by issuing a secret warning to the governor of New Mexico, as I recall, as if the atmosphere stops at the state line. And what exactly would the governor do at 5 a.m. when the air in his state fissions and explodes? Call out the National Guard? - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 12:27:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11082; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:09:14 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , John Schnurer Subject: HELP WITH PINE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QoPkB3.0.2j2.Lxdwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30482 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Please, someone sent me a 'help with pine note' ... I cannot find it.... please, PINE USER .. send again. Thanks, J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 12:54:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA22011; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:52:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:52:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37EA8540.80238C36 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:53:36 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Test - Please Ignore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lWRty.0.bN5.YJewt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30483 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is just a test. My posts do not appear to be gettin through vortex. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 13:14:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17933; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37EA8603.2C94 ca-ois.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:56:52 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth References: <3.0.6.32.19990922154126.00799720 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990923145007.007a6290@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3VBhw2.0.7O4.6Yewt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30485 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Jim O. wrote: > > >Big Ion Collider Destroys Earth! > > > >Now that's an attention getting headline! > > Whose attention would it get? There would be nobody left to read it. If you ask that question, you should also ask what newspaper would be around to print it in the first place... It's a big universe, Jed. I had in mind the Alpha Centauri Gazette. Draw your own conclusions but the anecedotal evidence is there. UFO's have to come from somewhere! Our closest stellar neighbor is just a guess. Jim O. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 13:15:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA26333; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:56:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:56:44 -0700 Message-ID: <37EA865C.B3A801D3 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:58:20 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy in France? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mZ4-y3.0.FR6.xNewt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30484 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There is a rumor floating around another list that the French power company, EDF, is within 8 months of a large scale CF energy production facility. Anyone else heard anything about this?? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 13:29:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA13078; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:25:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:25:53 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990923162436.007a1410 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:24:36 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth In-Reply-To: <37EA8603.2C94 ca-ois.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990922154126.00799720 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990923145007.007a6290 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"KMn_V3.0.GC3.Hpewt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30486 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim O. writes: >It's a big universe, Jed. I had in mind the Alpha Centauri Gazette. Ah, in the year 2005. Of course. But would the phonomenon cause a light or RF disturbance? Would they know? It might be a big event for us but too small for anyone else in the universe to notice, like an anthole flooded in a rainstorm. For that matter, this might explain why the SETI programs have failed and why UFOs are uncommon. Perhaps intelligent life is exceedingly rare because the intelligent races that survive the discovery of nuclear bombs accidentally wipes themselves out a few decades later researching the Big Bang. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 13:31:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA17630; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:30:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:30:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37EA7EA6.3A51CBED bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:25:26 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy in France? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LQGrp1.0.GJ4.Etewt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30488 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There is a rumor floating around another list that the French power company, EDF, is within 8 months of a large scale CF energy production facility. Anyone else heard anything about this?? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 13:31:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA16662; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:29:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:29:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37EA8E41.C74A12F3 mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:32:01 +0200 From: Jean-Paul Biberian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy in France? References: <37EA865C.B3A801D3 bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"775Yf3.0.C44.vsewt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30487 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I live in France, and never heard anything like this. They are just saying they are putting up windmills! Jean-Paul Biberian Terry Blanton wrote: > There is a rumor floating around another list that the French > power company, EDF, is within 8 months of a large scale CF energy > production facility. > > Anyone else heard anything about this?? > > Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 13:33:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20195; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:31:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:31:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01bf0602$e31ea1c0$2a5323cb -> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:25:16 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"D747D3.0.Ox4.euewt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30489 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >IOW III, If you want to trap ZPE use a high dielectric constant and >high surface tension material, and when the bubble collapses you get >the OU-Zero Point Energy. > >Frederick > Isn't this what Floyd Sweet was claiming with his Vacuum Triode? Collapsing magnetic bubbles. Peter Nielsen From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 13:54:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA22138; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37EA5F0D.88FF3A5E bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:10:37 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy in France? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FqmYI.0.oP5.F8fwt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30490 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There is a rumor floating around another list that the French power company, EDF, is within 8 months of a large scale CF energy production facility. Anyone else heard anything about this?? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 14:16:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12442; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:15:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:15:15 -0700 Message-ID: <006501bf0610$cb7be100$27441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <002c01bf0602$e31ea1c0$2a5323cb -> Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:11:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"XMWgJ.0.K23.ZXfwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30491 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Nielsen To: Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 1:25 PM Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Peter Nielson wrote: > >IOW III, If you want to trap ZPE use a high dielectric constant and > >high surface tension material, and when the bubble collapses you get > >the OU-Zero Point Energy. > > > >Frederick > > > > Isn't this what Floyd Sweet was claiming with his Vacuum Triode? You got me on that one, Peter. > > Collapsing magnetic bubbles. Hmmm. The ZP Fields (magnetic if they are stationary EM waves)should collapse at some rate? Regards, Frederick > > Peter Nielsen > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 14:21:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15847; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:19:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:19:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , John Schnurer Subject: A sort of thinking ... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ucHa71.0.Wt3.Vbfwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30492 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Below is a sort of thinking. Please help me to round out this listing, and, of course, I welcome your input. A good list MIGHT be used to help our student to develop independent thinking and action and the ability to acquire REAL information and to think on their feet. At times it seems some of this is lost in our schools, and I don't think many schools teach common sense. J I am glad Vo is visiting some of the topics such as quantum effects and waves and particles and FTL. We should thank Jim O. and others for their contributions recently. My personal thinking and opinion is the result of a combination of many many trains of thought developed over the years. The basic end product is sort of a list of ways of thinking, this includes but is not limited to: 1] There is only ONE absolute: For rule, law, theory and the like, there will be exception or exceptions. 2] Almost any thinking changes as a result of context. 3] Experimental results are the most important and they too are subject to exceptions. 4] A thinking, theory, mathmatical rendering, law and the like are human constructs that are USUALLY put in place to HELP people make sense of their surroundings, observations, world and so on. AND: Subject to exceptions, laws and thinkings are also put in place USUALLY to help to predict behavior or events, materials and so on, so that people can make better use, whatever that may be, of their surroundings. Often this is for their own ends. Can you help to round out this list? John From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 14:29:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA19870; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:25:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:25:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:30:00 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic bubbles.... Nanobubbles In-Reply-To: <002c01bf0602$e31ea1c0$2a5323cb -> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FYlzg2.0.Os4.Bhfwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30493 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., Magnetic bubbles are NOT bubbles, in any sense.. they are not even hollow! They are areas of magnetised material that are round, from one viewing angle. Usually produced in a thin film they are properly called "Cylindrical Magnetic Domains" and usually start out as Serpentine Magnetic Domains .... which might be called "Magnetic Snakes" ... but look more like "Magnetic Cake Decorations" Ha! ... I am having trouble not to laugh ... time to write a paper and get peer review for MCD... Mag Cake Dec. ! :) On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Peter Nielsen wrote: > >IOW III, If you want to trap ZPE use a high dielectric constant and > >high surface tension material, and when the bubble collapses you get > >the OU-Zero Point Energy. > > > >Frederick > > > > Isn't this what Floyd Sweet was claiming with his Vacuum Triode? > > Collapsing magnetic bubbles. > > Peter Nielsen > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 14:29:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA21774; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:28:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:28:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:33:08 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: More Magnetic ....Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles In-Reply-To: <006501bf0610$cb7be100$27441d26 fjsparber> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1_WP02.0.3K5.7kfwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30494 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: y It requires some energy in the form of increasing magnetic field to make Snakes.... more yet to make Big bubbles.... More to make Small bubbles.... and more and more and they get smalled and disappear. BUT: You can do all sorts of other cool things with them.... there are books and books on the subject. The field is NOT simple but it IS much FUN ! On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Nielsen > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles > > Peter Nielson wrote: > > > > >IOW III, If you want to trap ZPE use a high dielectric constant and > > >high surface tension material, and when the bubble collapses you get > > >the OU-Zero Point Energy. > > > > > >Frederick > > > > > > > Isn't this what Floyd Sweet was claiming with his Vacuum Triode? > > You got me on that one, Peter. > > > > Collapsing magnetic bubbles. > > Hmmm. The ZP Fields (magnetic if they are stationary EM waves)should > collapse at some rate? > > Regards, Frederick > > > > Peter Nielsen > > > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 14:30:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22697; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:29:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:29:23 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:33:49 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Test - Please Ignore In-Reply-To: <37EA8540.80238C36 bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uflrH1.0.ZY5.okfwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30495 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ingnore Terry B.? ???!!! ??? Not me! On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Terry Blanton wrote: > This is just a test. My posts do not appear to be gettin through > vortex. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 14:37:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26645; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:35:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:35:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:40:16 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: John Schnurer , Vortex Subject: To Jean Paul ..Re: Free Energy in France? In-Reply-To: <37EA8E41.C74A12F3 mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GZ3aJ2.0.FW6.tqfwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30496 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Jean-Paul, What is EDF? Can you find do they have an E mail or www site? On another note: I spent a year in France, 1960-1961, in Paris in school as bilingual student. My older brother's name is Paul ... You have a GREAT name! School was Ecole Actif Bilangue [spelling may be wrong] it was about 8 blocks from T. Effel . Are you near France? Can you tell me if it still exists? And if so, the address and-or any other informatio that is not to hard to get? John Herman Schnurer On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Jean-Paul Biberian wrote: > I live in France, and never heard anything like this. They are just > saying they are putting up windmills! > Jean-Paul Biberian > > Terry Blanton wrote: > > > There is a rumor floating around another list that the French > > power company, EDF, is within 8 months of a large scale CF energy > > production facility. > > > > Anyone else heard anything about this?? > > > > Terry > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 15:29:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18101; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:28:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:28:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:28:21 -1000 Subject: Re: The Fundamental Quantum Units From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909231828977.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"eM-Gl3.0.eQ4.Fcgwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30497 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim - > It seems to me that a > simple test of this could be performed by vibrating the detector at > multiples of angstom units assumed to be involved in the detection > mechanism. Unless detectors are at absolute zero and then some, the lattice components are already vibrating and gyrating at various frequencies from heat. All from quantized phonons too, presumably. It's the material universe. The House rigged it so you can't win. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 15:31:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA20215; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:30:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:30:07 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:29:59 -1000 Subject: Re: Free Energy in France? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909231829774.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"nH6TN2.0.bx4.ldgwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30498 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - > There is a rumor floating around another list that the French > power company, EDF, is within 8 months of a large scale CF energy > production facility. > > Anyone else heard anything about this?? > > Terry Strangely, I've heard that three times just recently! ;) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 15:34:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA23276; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:34:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:34:08 -0700 Message-ID: <37EAAB42.45908232 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:35:46 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Car Runs on Water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hu2fk1.0.ch5.Whgwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30499 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This one really runs on water. Can this process be OU? See: http://layo.com/ Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 15:50:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30351; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:49:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:49:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37EAAEDC.BA207006 bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:51:08 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Free Energy in France? References: <199909231829774.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OEcKD3.0.8Q7.wvgwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30500 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: > Strangely, I've heard that three times just recently! ;) One of those messages was delayed by almost 3 hours. They were posted in reverse order, too. I think they were being held hostage by a server in Maryland until they realized I wasn't going to stop until the damned message got to vortex. IF the French EDF (Electricité de France, John) were scaling up a CF process, why would they keep it secret? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 16:20:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA08651; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:19:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:19:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:19:14 -1000 Subject: Re: Free Energy in France? From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Message-Id: <19990923191971.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA08626 Resent-Message-ID: <"4cMIO.0.572.uLhwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30501 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry - > IF the French EDF (Electricité de France, John) were scaling up a > CF process, why would they keep it secret? Because they're French? More likely to make a "grand entrance" of sorts, if there's any truth to this. I wouldn't believe this until it breaks out in the funny papers somewhere. hope it's true though. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 16:20:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA09105; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:19:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:19:52 -0700 Message-ID: <37EAB635.2207ACF5 mccir3.crmc2.univ-mrs.fr> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:22:29 +0200 From: Jean-Paul Biberian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: To Jean Paul ..Re: Free Energy in France? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WuLYd.0.6E2.OMhwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30502 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Schnurer wrote: > Dear Jean-Paul, > > What is EDF? Can you find do they have an E mail or www site? > John, EDF is Electricite De France You can try this:http://www.edf.fr/der/html/der/production.en.htm > On another note: > > I spent a year in France, 1960-1961, in Paris in school as > bilingual student. My older brother's name is Paul ... > You have a GREAT name! > > School was Ecole Actif Bilangue [spelling may be wrong] it was > about 8 blocks from T. Effel . Are you near France? Can you tell me if > it still exists? And if so, the address and-or any other informatio that > is not to hard to get? I leave in France, but in Grenoble, quite far from Paris, and have no idea if this school still exists. The appropriate spelling might be: Ecole Active Bilingue Jean-Paul Biberian From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 16:38:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA16712; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:37:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:37:58 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <85d178b6.251c13be aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:37:34 EDT Subject: Re: Sci. Am. article about Material Sciences To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"wkQ6h1.0.254.Ldhwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30503 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, On September 17, you wrote, "Glow discharge tungsten cathodes disintegrate into small pieces, presumably because of the heat and electrolysis loading pressure. They do not oxidize, they crumble into pieces." So has anyone tried another metal for the cathodes? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 17:26:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29861; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:25:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:25:03 -0700 Message-ID: <00b501bf062b$5711adc0$27441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:22:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"7MsrA3.0.OI7.UJiwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30504 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For you, Terry. Three bushels of corn ( about 10 Billion bu. harvested last year) will provide 162 pounds of starch C6H10O5. Then: C6H10O5 (162 lbs) + 7 H2O (126 lbs) ----> 6CO2 + 12 H2 (24 lbs) easily done in a "pressure cooker" with a K2CO3 catalyst, heated by the exhaust stream of the engine. The H2 is easily separated from the CO2 with a molecular sieve, and vented back to the atmosphere from whence it came. Thats about equivalent to 11 gallons of gasoline and at 28 miles/gallon will get you 100 miles to the bushel. Far superior to 2.5 gallons of ethanol to the bushel. Chevron Research Labs (R. J. White) patented this in the early 70s. Does good on newspaper (cellulose) too. Take your pick, Hogs or Gas Hogs? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 18:18:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA12620; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:17:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:17:44 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:25:08 -0400 Message-ID: <19990924012508203.AAA178 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"qvxkv2.0.653.u4jwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30505 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Some physicists expressed similar fears before they exploded the first >atomic bomb. They said it might cause a chain reaction including the atoms >in the atmosphere. Gen. Groves responded by issuing a secret warning to the >governor of New Mexico, as I recall, as if the atmosphere stops at the >state line. And what exactly would the governor do at 5 a.m. when the air >in his state fissions and explodes? Call out the National Guard? > >- Jed I think that the test is pretty safe, we've had some of our best nuclear industry contractors and PACs working on it, so what could possibly go wrong?. The safety record of the nuclear industry has really been quite extraordinary - only about 250 documented accidents in this country, although that doesn't count some of the "mere miscalculations" like the the Cannikin Island test. Still, that's less than five a year in this country alone! And if anything does go slightly awry with this Brookehaven test like it did in Cannikin, the reaction will most probably be self-limiting like the bomb, and you really couldn't pick a more desolate, isolated, remote location than Long Island, New Jersey. The benefits for science though, I think, far outweigh these supposed risks. I, for one, can't wait to find out about the Big Bang theory, and at a cost of only around 600 million, give or take some hundreds due to the usual creative accounting methods used by our national laboratories, I'm quite willing to step over the homeless people sleeping in the street to find out what the outcome of this test is. Health care for people, food for the hungry, a real education and future for children - who cares about that stuff? We need to know the truth about this Big Bang Theory! It's usually the first thing that pops into my head when I wake up every day. All in all, the knowledge gained by this test will be so great that I think we should build several more of these accelerators in other places like Chicago and L.A., just to verify the outcome of the first test. Can't be too sure!! Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 18:21:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA14741; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:20:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:20:58 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:28:22 -0400 Message-ID: <19990924012822812.AAA289 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"ym2lW.0.9c3.v7jwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30506 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Big Ion Collider Destroys Earth! > >Now that's an attention getting headline! > >It ain't in the Bible so it can't happen. Fire up that sucker! > >Jim O. Chocolate chip cookies aren't in the Bible either, and look at the havoc they've caused. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 22:12:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA16936; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:10:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:10:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:15:04 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , John Schnurer Subject: Help ....Computers and concrete Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"V1Y_C2.0.Y84.CVmwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30507 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., In true eclectic stripe: 1] Computers sets Q: Does anyone know of the methods, vendors and state of the art for : Suspend Resume Q: Same questions for DRAM to DRAM transfer... I want to store a whole gang of stuff in DRAM and, wholesale, move it onto a similar gang of DRAM. --------------------- _____________________ 2] CONCRETE Q: Anyone up on what-who-where bodies of regulation, industry, commerce, societies, civilian and-or government and EPA stuff governing and concerned with concrete and cement industry. a] use b] guidelines c] regulation and safety d] costs, economics e] local, city, county, state, US and foreign f] standards g] manufacture, shipping h] reinforcement, limits i] from little bags you buy at the hardware to giant bridges and roadways to underwater, high temperature, the making of boats to garden decorations. Q: Anyone know the great Grandma or Grandad mentor of cement and concrete??? Like the IEEE, or ASME or NIST or FAA or BBB of concrete and cement.... ????? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 23:14:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA30612; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:13:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:13:17 -0700 Message-ID: <37EB035D.34E ca-ois.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:51:41 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth References: <3.0.6.32.19990922154126.00799720 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990923145007.007a6290 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990923162436.007a1410@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3LcuW3.0.AU7.yPnwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30508 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Jim O. writes: > > >It's a big universe, Jed. I had in mind the Alpha Centauri Gazette. > > Ah, in the year 2005. Of course. NOT! The assumption is that "they" (Alpha Centaurian news correspodents, the UFOnauts) at least have perfected the simultaneous quantum interoscitor. > But would the phonomenon cause a light or > RF disturbance? I don't know. If we become a Black Hole probably gravitational perturbations of the sun would be noticeable at great distances. Immediately maybe, talk to Tom Van Flandern about why. > Would they know? It might be a big event for us but too > small for anyone else in the universe to notice, like an anthole flooded in > a rainstorm. Like I said this is all just "what if". It's not going to happen. > > For that matter, this might explain why the SETI programs have failed and > why UFOs are uncommon. Uncommon but nonetheless unexpalained and unnacounted for by science. > Perhaps intelligent life is exceedingly rare because > the intelligent races that survive the discovery of nuclear bombs > accidentally wipes themselves out a few decades later researching the Big > Bang. > How many black holes in our vicinity are there by your count? Jim From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 23 23:39:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA03010; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:39:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:39:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:43:44 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: U.K. Sunday Times: experiment may blow up the earth In-Reply-To: <37EB035D.34E ca-ois.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qoWhY2.0.yk.Honwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30509 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, I tried to get the Flandern www site to work... no dice. Is there a simple, live site that LINKS to there? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 01:49:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA27566; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:49:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:49:16 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:49:09 -1000 Subject: Re: Help ....Computers and concrete From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990924044940.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"5lcf_2.0.ek6.Bipwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30510 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John - You have *got* to get a real web connection with a modern browser. Tons of answers to questions like that out there on the web. Like when you asked about the short range radio for a wireless desktop network. Just a few search terms on the engines brought in more on that than I could ever go through. It's huge. I e-mailed you just a few of the data sheet summaries. You could drill down to any level of detail you need. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI > Dear Vo., > > In true eclectic stripe: > > 1] Computers sets > > Q: Does anyone know of the methods, vendors and state of the art > for : Suspend Resume > > Q: Same questions for DRAM to DRAM transfer... I want to store a > whole gang of stuff in DRAM and, wholesale, move it onto a similar gang of > DRAM. > > --------------------- > _____________________ > > 2] CONCRETE > > Q: Anyone up on what-who-where bodies of regulation, industry, > commerce, societies, civilian and-or government and EPA stuff > governing and concerned with concrete and cement industry. > a] use > b] guidelines > c] regulation and safety > d] costs, economics > e] local, city, county, state, US and foreign > f] standards > g] manufacture, shipping > h] reinforcement, limits > i] from little bags you buy at the hardware to giant bridges and > roadways to underwater, high temperature, the making of boats to garden > decorations. > > Q: Anyone know the great Grandma or Grandad mentor of cement > and concrete??? > > > > Like the IEEE, or ASME or NIST or FAA or BBB of concrete and > cement.... > > ????? > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 07:27:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30532; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:25:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:25:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990924102356.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:23:56 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Sci. Am. article about Material Sciences In-Reply-To: <85d178b6.251c13be aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"eo6A21.0.-S7.Bduwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30511 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Stolper asks: >So has anyone tried another metal for the cathodes? They have tried platinum glow discharge, which appears to produce some excess heat. It melts, though. I do not know of any common metal with a higher melting point than tungsten. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 07:41:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08804; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:39:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:39:09 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:46:21 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: The Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"2mQXF.0.P92.Dquwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30512 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll try to be as brief as possible. I'd like to show a summary of derivations, and then some curious implications discovered. Some progress is hopefully better than no progress. Earlier I made a few assumptions about quantization of space, time, and mass, with the possible hope of quickly showing a glaring contradiction with reality. which did not immediately happen. The derivation of the following conclusions has already been shown. {Qd} = c {Qt} {Qe} = {Qm} c^2 {Qm}{Qd} = {Qe}{Qt}^2 {Qp} c = {qe} {Qpa} = {Qp}{Qd} Wmax {Qp} = h {Qp} = c {Qm} from which also immediately follows other forms: {Qpa} = c^2 {Qm} {Qt} {Qpa} = c {Qm} {Qd} {Qp} {Qd} = c^2 {Qm} {Qt} {Qm} {Qd}^2 = {Qe} {Qt}^2 {Qe}{Qt}{Qp} = c^2 {Qm}^2 {Qd} {Qt}{Qp} = {Qm}{Qd} {Qe} = c {Qp} = c^2 {Qm} where the symbols are defined as: c - speed of light h = Plank's constant {Qm} - quantum of mass {Qd} - quantum of distance {Qt} - quantum of time {Qp} - quantum of momentum {Qpa} - quantum of angular momentum {Qe} - quantum of energy Wmax - largest possible wavelength One observation is that if we assume the Bohr quantization condition for angular momentum L, using the above notation: {Qpa} = h/(2 Pi) we have immediately: {Qm}{Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) (violating Heisenberg) {Qm} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi c^2) (a mass-time certainty) 2 Pi {Qp} {Qd} = h = Wmax {Qp} Wmax = 2 Pi {Qd} (violating quantum nature of length {Qd} plus setting maximum wavelength of 6 {Qd}) So - at least the Bohr quantization of angular momentum goes, is contradicted. Further, the above is in direct conflict with Heisenberg's momentum-displacement law which is written in this notation as: (N1 {Qp}) (N2 {Qd}) >= h and clearly opposes {Qm}{Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) above. It seems that if the asssumptions are to hold together it is through the "inflation" of uncertainty. It will take a lot of creative interpretation and novel ideas in order to maintain a fit with reality and the correspondence principle, i.e. that the quantum reality reduces to the classical when the quantum numbers are sufficiently large, if those things are possible at all under these assumptions. By substituiting for {Qp} {Qd} the value c^2 {Qm} {Qt} into the Heisenberg equation we get: N1 N2 c^2 {Qm} {Qt} >= h or N1 N2 {Qe} {Qt} >= h which is a very strange deduction. It seems to practically guarantee free energy! The energy-time should be constrained, not provided a lower bound. It could be a simple error, but I don't see it. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 07:55:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA14049; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:53:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:53:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:58:09 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: NOTES Fundamental Quantum Units In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"S873y1.0.RR3.p1vwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30513 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some notes, cuts... Can you please let us know, BBGB, how big or long or "much" the quantities flagged below are Flag = +++++ > > where the symbols are defined as: > > +++++ c - speed of light > > h = Plank's constant > > ++++++ {Qm} - quantum of mass > > ++++++ {Qd} - quantum of distance > > +++++++ !!!!!!! +++++ {Qt} - quantum of time +++++++++++ > > {Qp} - quantum of momentum ++++++++++++++++++ > > {Qpa} - quantum of angular momentum > > {Qe} - quantum of energy > > Wmax - largest possible wavelength +++++++++++++++++ > > One observation is that if we assume the Bohr quantization condition for > angular momentum L, using the above notation: > > {Qpa} = h/(2 Pi) > > we have immediately: > > {Qm}{Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) (violating Heisenberg) > > {Qm} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi c^2) (a mass-time certainty) > > 2 Pi {Qp} {Qd} = h = Wmax {Qp} > > Wmax = 2 Pi {Qd} (violating quantum nature of length {Qd} > plus setting maximum wavelength of 6 {Qd}) > > So - at least the Bohr quantization of angular momentum goes, is > contradicted. Further, the above is in direct conflict with Heisenberg's > momentum-displacement law which is written in this notation as: > > (N1 {Qp}) (N2 {Qd}) >= h > > and clearly opposes {Qm}{Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) above. > > It seems that if the asssumptions are to hold together it is through the > "inflation" of uncertainty. It will take a lot of creative interpretation > and novel ideas in order to maintain a fit with reality and the > correspondence principle, i.e. that the quantum reality reduces to the > classical when the quantum numbers are sufficiently large, if those things > are possible at all under these assumptions. > > By substituiting for {Qp} {Qd} the value c^2 {Qm} {Qt} into the Heisenberg > equation we get: > > N1 N2 c^2 {Qm} {Qt} >= h > > or > > N1 N2 {Qe} {Qt} >= h > > which is a very strange deduction. It seems to practically guarantee free > energy! The energy-time should be constrained, not provided a lower bound. > It could be a simple error, but I don't see it. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 09:09:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08119; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:08:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:08:03 -0700 Message-ID: <002501bf06af$13d91320$20441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater, Fluorescein-K2CO3 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:03:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"K5l6i1.0.i-1.Z7wwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30514 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mixed aprox. 0.20 grams of Fluorescein Powder and aprox 2 grams of K2CO3 Powder in 600 ml of tap water. Ran 250 ml in a coffee cup using the 200 watt immersion heater (188 watts based on 117.5 volts and 73.5 ohms 3.7 watts/cm^2). No visible fluorescence in the dark, but the bubbling sound started practically immediately as opposed to straight-run tap water. Several runs with a tape recorder with the mike against the cup, giving a white noise sound from the invisible nanobubbles forming and collapsing. There should be a significant increase in the surface tension of water due to the alkaline K2CO3. No data on the effect of the fluorescein which should form a potassium "salt". One could feel the water vapor coming off the uncovered cup almost immediately also, and the cup came to a boil Much Faster than with the untreated tap water (private-well softened water. No thermometer was employed, so OU yield is unknown. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 09:19:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA11994; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:17:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <37EBA471.E9E6390B bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:18:57 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars References: <00b501bf062b$5711adc0$27441d26 fjsparber> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wJ6qc1.0.Kx2.JGwwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30515 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > > For you, Terry. You are so kind! > Three bushels of corn ( about 10 Billion bu. harvested last year) will > provide > 162 pounds of starch C6H10O5. > > Then: > > C6H10O5 (162 lbs) + 7 H2O (126 lbs) ----> 6CO2 + 12 H2 (24 lbs) > easily done in a "pressure cooker" with a K2CO3 catalyst, > heated by the exhaust stream of the engine. The H2 is easily separated from > the CO2 with a molecular sieve, and vented back to the atmosphere from > whence it came. > > Thats about equivalent to 11 gallons of gasoline and at 28 miles/gallon will > get you 100 miles to the bushel. Far superior to 2.5 gallons of ethanol to > the bushel. > > Chevron Research Labs (R. J. White) patented this in the early 70s. > > Does good on newspaper (cellulose) too. Yes, but all this hardware certainly affects the aerodynamics of the vehicle, n'est-ce pas? Did you look at the web site? The inventor claims that an arc between a moving electrode and a block of aluminum provides an efficient dissociation of water with the results being aluminum oxide and hydrogen. They even have a supportive letter from BMW. And the whole device looked about the size of a Mr. Fusion attachment to a DeLorean. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 10:47:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA14310; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:44:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:44:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37EBB8F0.6037B363 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:46:24 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Optically Driven Quantum Computer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Hz2FM1.0.WV3.DYxwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30516 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/quant-ph/pdf/9909/9909070.pdf An optically driven quantum dot quantum computer G. D. Sanders, K. W. Kim, and W. C. Holton Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, North Carolina State University Raleigh, North Carolina 27695-7911 Abstract We propose a quantum computer structure based on coupled asymmetric single-electron quantum dots. Adjacent dots are strongly coupled by means of electric dipole-dipole interactions enabling rapid computation rates. Further, the asymmetric structures can be tailored for a long coherence time. The result maximizes the number of computation cycles prior to loss of coherence. In this paper, we propose a manufactured solid state implementation based on advanced nanotechnology that seems capable of physical implementation. It consists of an ensemble of "identical" semiconductor pillars, each consisting of a vertical stack of coupled asymmetric GaAs/AlGaAs single-electron quantum dots of differing sizes and material compositions so that each dot possesses a distinct energy structure. Qubit registers are based on the ground and first excited states of a single electron within each quantum dot. The asymmetric dots produce large built-in electrostatic dipole moments between the ground and excited states, and electrons in adjacent dots are coupled through an electric dipole-dipole interaction. The dipole-dipole coupling between electrons in nonadjacent dots is less by ten times the coupling between adjacent dots. Parameters of the structure can be chosen to produce a well-resolved spectrum of distinguishable qubits with adjacent qubits strongly coupled. The resulting ensemble of quantum computers may also be tuned electrically through metal interconnect to produce "identical" pillars. In addition, the asymmetric potential can be designed so that dephasing due to electron-phonon scattering and spontaneous emission is minimized. The combination of strong dipole-dipole coupling and long dephasing times make it possible to perform many computational steps. Quantum computations may be carried out in complete analogy with the operation of a NMR quantum computer, including the application of refocusing pulses to decouple qubits not involved with a current step in the computational process [13]. Final readout of the amplitude and phase of the qubit states can be achieved through quantum state holography. Amplitude and phase information are extracted through mixing the final state with a reference state generated in the same system by an additional delayed laser pulse and detecting the total time- and frequency- integrated fluorescence as a function of the delay [14,15]. Means of characterizing the required laser pulses are described in Ref. [16]. Our quantum register is similar to the n-type single-electron transistor structure recently reported by Tarucha et al. [17]. In Tarucha's structure, source and drain are at the top and bottom of a free standing pillar with a quantum well in the middle and a cylindrical gate wrapped around the center of the pillar. In our design, a stacked series of asymmetric GaAs/AlGaAs quantum wells are arrayed along the pillar axis by first epitaxially growing planar quantum wells in a manner similar to that employed to produce surface emitting lasers [18]. By applying a negative gate bias that depletes carriers near the surface, a parabolic electrostatic potential is formed which provides confinement in the radial direction. In the strong depletion regime, the curvature of the parabolic radial potential is a function of the doping concentration. To facilitate coupling to the laser field, the gate is made transparent using a reverse damascene process. The simultaneous insertion of a single electron in each dot is accomplished by lining up the quantum dot ground state levels so they lie close to the Fermi level; a single electron is confined in each dot over a finite range of the gate voltage due to shell filling effects [17]. Strong electrostatic confinement in the radial direction serves to keep the quantum dot electrons from interacting with the gate electrode, phonon surface modes, localized surface impurities, and interface roughness fluctuations. The electrostatic potential near the pillar axis is smooth in the presence of small fluctuations in the pillar radius. By tuning the gate voltage, it is anticipated that size fluctuations between different pillars can be compensated for. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 12:13:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14171; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:10:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:10:07 -0700 Message-ID: <003301bf06c8$807c0320$20441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <00b501bf062b$5711adc0$27441d26 fjsparber> <37EBA471.E9E6390B@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:07:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"kxfsf.0.KT3.Eoywt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30517 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Blanton To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars Terry wrote: > > Yes, but all this hardware certainly affects the aerodynamics of > the vehicle, n'est-ce pas? Only the bushel baskets will effect the aerodynamics, the rest will go under the hood next to the motor or fuel cell. :-) > > Did you look at the web site? Yes. There was a similar onboard water electrolysis-hydrogen design ca. 1981 that they took before a congressional hearing and were on their way to Detroit with it, and it blew up or was blown up while they were eating at a restaurant along the interstate near Toledo, Ohio. They decided to forget about it. > > The inventor claims that an arc > between a moving electrode and a block of aluminum provides an > efficient dissociation of water with the results being aluminum > oxide and hydrogen. But: 6 H2O (108 lbs) + 2 Al (54 lbs)--> 2 Al(OH)3 + 3 H2 (6 lbs) At 70 cents a pound for aluminum thats $37.00 for 6 lbs of hydrogen. You can do the above reaction without the arc, using a water-drano mix at 130 F in an Iron Pot, using aluminum Pop and Beer cans that you pick up along side the road. About 6 cans/mile. :-) >They even have a supportive letter from > BMW. And the whole device looked about the size of a Mr. Fusion > attachment to a DeLorean. A patent and supportive letters don't buy practicality. :-( Why do you think they scrapped the DeLorean? :-) Regards, Frederick > > Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 12:48:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA29499; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:45:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:45:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924124425.00a00a60 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:45:13 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Re: Sci. Am. article about Material Sciences In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990924102356.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> References: <85d178b6.251c13be aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AhqLK3.0.mC7.UJzwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30518 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There isn't any, hence it's use in light bulb filaments. rt >They have tried platinum glow discharge, which appears to produce some >excess heat. It melts, though. I do not know of any common metal with a >higher melting point than tungsten. > >- Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 13:18:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10858; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:16:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:16:13 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:23:10 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: NOTES Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"wtpL93.0.af2.Dmzwt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30519 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:58 AM 9/24/99, John Schnurer wrote: > Can you please let us know, BBGB, how big or long or "much" the >quantities flagged below are > Flag = +++++ Gee, John, Rome wasn't built in a day, and I have almost no time at all to work on this right now. There remain puzzles. The possibility that all is quantized in the simplistic manner I first hypothesized looks very unlikely. However, it may well be that Heisenberg will save the day for fundamental quantization by enforcing a minimum uncertainty on the quantum numbers, at least as aggregated into conjugate pairs, making them typically so large and everything so fuzzy as to seldom operate in a detectably quantized manner. The flip side of this is that there is then the question as to why anything is ever quantized if everything is so fuzzy - which then gets back to the original (early days) quantum concepts like vibrating string models and Bohr's fitting fixed units of wavelengths into orbitals, etc. I think the major conceptual problem is with an implied maximum wavelength. I'm focusing on that now, as per the my last post. It would be easy to jump to the conclusion that the hypothesized quanta can not all exist because of requirement for a maximum wavelength. Success could thus be declared due to having logical proof that energy is not quantized. However, the situation may not be all that simple. If uniform velocity is achieved through fuzzyness or probabilities, then other things may be as well. I have focused primarily on values produced by simple binomial functions on the primary quanta of mass, time and distance. Velocity and wavelength result from a function involving a denominator, thus are rational, so are not necessarily quantized in the sense of having minimal values. Their graininess only shows up in special circumstances where the independent quantum numbers are low. More consideration needs to be given to the concept of rational physical values. I had hoped for a quick solution with either a clear contradiction to fundamental quantization or with concrete values for the fundamental predicted (more for one or the other at different times.) Neither is at hand in my opinion. One thing hopefully still remains clear. E = h nu does not in itself imply that energy is quantized, it only states that energy and wavelength remain in proportion. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 13:48:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19749; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:46:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:46:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37EC0DDD.1BA3 bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:48:45 -0700 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars References: <00b501bf062b$5711adc0$27441d26 fjsparber> <37EBA471.E9E6390B@bellsouth.net> <003301bf06c8$807c0320$20441d26@fjsparber> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0pM-13.0.Vq4.fC-wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30520 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > Terry wrote: > > Yes, but all this hardware certainly affects the aerodynamics of > > the vehicle, n'est-ce pas? > > Only the bushel baskets will effect the aerodynamics, the rest will > go under the hood next to the motor or fuel cell. :-) Okay, a DeLorean with a dome. Hmmm, kinda looks like a saucer in profile. I like it! > > Did you look at the web site? > > Yes. There was a similar onboard water electrolysis-hydrogen > design ca. 1981 that they took before a congressional hearing > and were on their way to Detroit with it, and it blew up or > was blown up while they were eating at a restaurant along the > interstate near Toledo, Ohio. They decided to forget about it. They probably stopped for Adam's Ribs and baked beans in Toledo causing a methane contamination. > > The inventor claims that an arc > > between a moving electrode and a block of aluminum provides an > > efficient dissociation of water with the results being aluminum > > oxide and hydrogen. > But: 6 H2O (108 lbs) + 2 Al (54 lbs)--> 2 Al(OH)3 + 3 H2 (6 lbs) > > At 70 cents a pound for aluminum thats $37.00 for 6 lbs of hydrogen. Not to mention 156 lbs of aluminun oxide. So how far can you go on 6 lbs of (H)2? > You can do the above reaction without the arc, using a water-drano mix > at 130 F in an Iron Pot, using aluminum Pop and Beer cans that you > pick up along side the road. About 6 cans/mile. :-) Oh, is that a mileage statement or fuel availability statement? If you mean the latter, there are roads in N. Georgia where you can find 6 beer cans *per foot*. > >They even have a supportive letter from > > BMW. And the whole device looked about the size of a Mr. Fusion > > attachment to a DeLorean. > A patent and supportive letters don't buy practicality. :-( > > Why do you think they scrapped the DeLorean? :-) It wasn't scrapped, John turned it into a snowmobile. :-Þ Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 14:33:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA10901; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:30:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:30:37 -0700 Message-ID: <003701bf06d4$4cb7a380$375323cb -> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:00:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"-TcNv3.0.Fg2.zr-wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30521 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The Casimir plate experiment assumes this, contrary to the force due to >exchange-van der waals forces, ie., the induced short range forces between >the surfaces of the plates. > >Frederick > I thought it assumed a wave function. The area between the plates becomes a zone of rarification. Peter Nielsen From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 14:54:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14566; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:51:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:51:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:55:54 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: NOTES Fundamental Quantum Units In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ljXTU3.0.SZ3.X9_wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30522 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear HH ....And Vo., Rome was not built in a day! OK My first problem: A quant of TIME? How much is a quant of TIME?? ,measured in WHAT? Basically, first, what is TIME? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 15:13:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA31720; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:10:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:10:49 -0700 Message-ID: <006301bf06e1$bef68b20$20441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <00b501bf062b$5711adc0$27441d26 fjsparber> <37EBA471.E9E6390B@bellsouth.net> <003301bf06c8$807c0320$20441d26@fjsparber> <37EC0DDD.1BA3@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:07:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"0AtNw1.0.Yl7.eR_wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30523 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Blanton To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars Terry wrote: > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > Terry wrote:> > > > > The inventor claims that an arc > > > between a moving electrode and a block of aluminum provides an > > > efficient dissociation of water with the results being aluminum > > > oxide and hydrogen. > > > But: 6 H2O (108 lbs) + 2 Al (54 lbs)--> 2 Al(OH)3 + 3 H2 (6 lbs) > > > > At 70 cents a pound for aluminum thats $37.00 for 6 lbs of hydrogen. > > Not to mention 156 lbs of aluminun oxide. So how far can you go on 6 > lbs of (H)2? It doesn't go to the oxide (Al2O3) unless you "dead burn" the Hydroxide: 2 Al(OH)3 ( heat or arc)----> Al2O3 + 3 H2O a waste of energy. At 56,000 Btu/Lb it takes about 2 lbs of hydrogen to equal a gallon of petrol. You can do Much Better with a Hydrogen fuel cell and 162 lbs of corn starch at about 8 cents a pound. C6H10O5(162 lbs) + 7H2O (126 lbs) --> 6 CO2 + 12 H2 (24 lbs) The H2 btu equiv of 12 gallons of petrol for about $13.00 (plus taxes) isn't too bad. > > > You can do the above reaction without the arc, using a water-drano mix > > at 130 F in an Iron Pot, using aluminum Pop and Beer cans that you > > pick up along side the road. About 6 cans/mile. :-) > > Oh, is that a mileage statement or fuel availability statement? Both, the recyclers want aluminum metal, not oxides/hydroxides. :-) >If you > mean the latter, there are roads in N. Georgia where you can find 6 beer > cans *per foot*. Would that be "Billy Beer"? :-) Regards, Frederick > > Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 15:18:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA01681; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:16:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:16:30 -0700 Message-ID: <007701bf06e2$81293440$20441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <003701bf06d4$4cb7a380$375323cb -> Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:13:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"AuzOH3.0.7Q.-W_wt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30524 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Nielsen To: Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 2:00 PM Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Peter Nielson wrote: > >The Casimir plate experiment assumes this, contrary to the force due to > >exchange-van der waals forces, ie., the induced short range forces between > >the surfaces of the plates. > > > >Frederick > > > > I thought it assumed a wave function. The area between the plates becomes a > zone of rarification. How do you rarify ZPE "Vacuum" that has an estimated 1.0E98 joule/cm^3? :-) Regards, Frederick > > Peter Nielsen > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 15:55:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA13889; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:53:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:53:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990924175234.010a53dc mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:52:34 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Planck frequency Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"N19Ku2.0.xO3.l30xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30525 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Most ZPF enthusiasts say the Planck frequency (1.9E43 Hz) is the appropriate high-frequency cutoff. Either matter quits interacting with EM radiation above that frequency or that is the highest frequency that spacetime itself can sustain. It should be noted that a single photon at that frequency, according to Planck's E = h*nu, contains about 1.3E10 joules of energy. To make that huge number barely comprehensible, it is the energy required to raise 100 tons to a height of about 9 miles. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 16:34:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA24376; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:32:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:32:27 -0700 From: Tgsleath aol.com Message-ID: <18a0aa9c.251d6405 aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:32:21 EDT Subject: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"J5ozq1.0.ny5.Ae0xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30526 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Everyone: I have recently discovered this group having been on the freeng-l for a while. The vortex has sucked me in! I am busy exploring the amazing claims of Schauberger, Hasslburger and others. I am about to build a test rig, but before I do I want to know if anyone has experimental evidence to support or contradict any of the following: 1) The axial resistance of water flowing in a straight pipe is greatly reduced (or even eliminated) if the water is cooled to 4 deg C and the water is caused to rotate about the axial direction. 2) Observation 1) is also true for a tapered down pipe allowing the axial velocity to increase inversly with cross-sectional area with little (or no) drag penalty. 3) The increase in axial kinetic energy in 2) is balanced by a drop in temperature of the water. Do we have the basis for a negentropic heat engine here, or am I succumbing to myth and fiction? hopefully Trevor Sleath From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 16:55:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA32447; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:54:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:54:17 -0700 Message-ID: <37EC117B.62C1D91F ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:04:11 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 24, 1999] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------96A9E66A3895830336CC4D5A" Resent-Message-ID: <"9wsiV1.0.vw7.fy0xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30527 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------96A9E66A3895830336CC4D5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------96A9E66A3895830336CC4D5A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from hq.aps.org ([149.28.112.5]) by mail00.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with ESMTP id runt6r.lue.33qs884 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from whatsnew localhost) by hq.aps.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA11175; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909242203.SAA11175 hq.aps.org> To: aki ix.netcom.com From: "What's New" Subject: What's New for Sep 24, 1999 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 24 Sep 99 Washington, DC 1. CTBT: SENATE DEMOCRATS ABANDON THE BIG PUSH. Just two weeks ago, Byron Dorgan (D-ND) was threatening to chain himself to the tracks to block other Senate business unless the test ban was put on the agenda (WN 10 Sep 99). But a week ago, Jesse Helms (R-NC) hinted he would be willing to have a quick vote (WN 17 Sep 99). Did that mean Helms had the votes to kill it? Democrats weren't taking any chances. On Wednesday, Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D- SD) acknowledged that the big push in the Senate is over for now. "It isn't that we've forgotten about the test ban," Daschle told reporters, "it's just that we feel strongly about the importance of getting appropriations bills done on time as well." But it's not over for everyone. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, slammed treaty opponents: "They have failed to explain how our security can be damaged by asking others to end testing, as we have already done, and accept intrusive monitoring as well." 2. TRAIN WRECK: APPROPRIATIONS BILLS AREN'T GETTING DONE EITHER. The Senate Appropriations Committee approved an FY 2K funding bill that would provide everything the President requested for NSF and NASA. That's very good news of course, even though a substantial share of NASA's money is earmarked for dubious projects in the home states of appropriators (WN 27 Aug 99), but that's not the end of the story. The bill must survive attempts to amend it on the Senate floor and then be reconciled with the House version. There's the rub. House and Senate totals for the bill differ widely, presenting conferees with an impossible task at time when relations between the chambers are fractious. 3. PERPETUUM MOBILE: BETTING AGAINST THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS. Most free energy scams invoke outlandish new physics: cold fusion, hydrinos, zero-point energy, gravity shields, antimatter. But there are also throwbacks to the 19th Century that directly challenge the laws of thermodynamics. Physics Today carried a full-page ad for Entropy Systems, Inc. describing a heat engine that runs off ambient heat. It's hardly a new idea. Two years ago Better World Technologies was touting the "Fisher engine" that violated the Second Law (WN 18 Jul 97). But it wasn't new then either--it was the "zero motor," invented by John Gamgee in 1880. It didn't work then either, but Gamgee sold it to the U.S. Navy anyway. Better World Technologies quietly dropped the Fisher Engine, but if they couldn't get around the Second Law, how about the First? In a full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal last Friday, BWT announced 45 FREE meetings across the country to demonstrate free energy using "Counter Rotation" technology. 4. POLITICS: SENSENBRENNER IS HONORED AS "CHAMPION OF SCIENCE." The award was made by the Science Coalition. Mr. Sensenbrenner sought to block construction of the spallation neutron source (WN 2 Apr 99) and opposed the science doubling bill (WN 5 Mar 99). THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) --------------96A9E66A3895830336CC4D5A-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 19:48:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14623; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:46:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:46:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:50:46 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 24, 1999] In-Reply-To: <37EC117B.62C1D91F ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ezKKh3.0.La3.zT3xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30528 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, What is Gamgee motor? Zero motor? How about the other mentions? Counter rotation? AND: I cheer the first Unusual Energy hit which helps people and overcomes all the HROO BROOGRAH idgits who muddy the water first... Looks like the HH idgits will certainly make the real thing have to be mighty solid. On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Akira Kawasaki wrote: > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 19:53:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA16579; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:51:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:51:41 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:51:31 -1000 Subject: Re: Planck frequency From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909242251243.SM00385 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"jHdFz1.0.z24.yY3xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30529 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott - > It should be noted that a single photon at that frequency, according to > Planck's E = h*nu, contains about 1.3E10 joules of energy. To make that > huge number barely comprehensible, it is the energy required to raise 100 > tons to a height of about 9 miles. Could the ZPE be dangerous? Weaponizable? Damn those photon torpedoes, fools peed a head. (With a tip of the hat to Jed's speech "recognition" software.) - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 20:01:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19261; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:58:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:58:46 -0700 Message-ID: <00c901bf0702$b9ccd0c0$5f8180d8 btech> From: "Bill Wallace`" To: , References: Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 24, 1999] Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:04:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <"ne9pZ.0.si4.cf3xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30530 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 24 Sep 99 Washington, DC 3. PERPETUUM MOBILE: BETTING AGAINST THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS. Most free energy scams invoke outlandish new physics: cold fusion, hydrinos, zero-point energy, gravity shields, antimatter. But there are also throwbacks to the 19th Century that directly challenge the laws of thermodynamics. Physics Today carried a full-page ad for Entropy Systems, Inc. describing a heat engine that runs off ambient heat. It's hardly a new idea. Two years ago Better World Technologies was touting the "Fisher engine" that violated the Second Law (WN 18 Jul 97). But it wasn't new then either--it was the "zero motor," invented by John Gamgee in 1880. It didn't work then either, but Gamgee sold it to the U.S. Navy anyway. Better World Technologies quietly dropped the Fisher Engine, but if they couldn't get around the Second Law, how about the First? In a full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal last Friday, BWT announced 45 FREE meetings across the country to demonstrate free energy using "Counter Rotation" technology. From: John Schnurer To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for Sep 24, 1999] > Dear Folks, > > What is Gamgee motor? > Zero motor? > How about the other mentions? Counter rotation? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 22:37:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23729; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:36:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:36:56 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925053655.7740.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.15] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:36:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"XGAc13.0.ho5.uz5xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30531 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Trevor writes: > >I have recently discovered this group having been on the freeng-l for a >while. >The vortex has sucked me in! > >I am busy exploring the amazing claims of Schauberger, Hasslburger and >others. I am about to build a test rig, Hi Trevor: My work is said to the most advanced of Schauberger's work by the vortex experts at "Viktor Schauberger's Vortex World" in Sweden. I suggest you try my concept and not waste your time with the vortex. There is no energy in the vortex itself, IMO. Information forthcoming, David Dennard http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 22:45:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA26149; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:44:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:44:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:44:02 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: list physics teaching , tap-l Subject: "Levitron" maglev device Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1_7oh3.0.BO6.h46xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30532 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The "Levitron" maglev scandal trundles on. The stolen invention continues to make money for those who took it. The site which exposed the scandal, LEVITRON.COM, has been shut down because of trademark issues. However, the wheels of justice grind slowly forwards. Here is a recent newspaper article: Part I: An amazing invention, and a patent failure http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/02602561.htm Part II: The patent that failed its invention http://www.projo.com/report/pjb/stories/02606761.htm This presents an ethical dilemma. The toy is so much fun, do we buy it anyway, even though the money goes to Bill Hones who stole it from its originator? Do we try to talk ourselves into justifying the theft, or talk ourselves into believing that it never occured? If we bought ours before we knew that the invention was stolen, does that make it OK to do nothing? Or should we return our Levitrons back to Hones at Fascinations, Seattle, with a letter explaining our opinion of his actions? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 22:50:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA30213; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:49:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:49:42 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925054942.93564.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.15] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Whirlpower Introduction Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:49:26 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"xQX5d3.0._N7.s96xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30533 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Trevor and all, >Here is my intro with full and extensve reference to the science >the relates to my theory. > >In my theory it is stated, "for flight look to the bird, for power look to >the hurricane". > >Floyd was a very strong example of that force. You could see the wobble of >the eye wall drag the hurricane Best example I have ever seen! > >David >>******************************************************************************** >> >> LUCID WHIRLPOWER >> >>Much of my work has come to me in my dreams. I have been conscious for 30 >>years >>now. Kinda hard to believe but true. I only have REM and WAKE and in REM >>I am >>conscious. It has been an amazing journey. Much of my dreamwork has been >>about >>the tornado. After constant nightmares about it in my childhood and youth >>I >>started to learn to face my fear as an adult. I remember the first time I >>got >>over my paralytic fear and went up to the tornado. It sniffed me. It >>looked >>like a giant elephant. I fed it some peanuts and we sort of got to know >>each >>other. >> >>After making friends with the tornado this understanding has come to me. >>In my >>last encounter with the tornado it was coming at me. I stood my ground >>but >>flinched at the last second and it cut me on the cheek. I hid in shame. >>Then >>mustered up all my courage and tried again. This time it came at me full >>force >>F-5. I didn't flinch. It came right up to me and turned into a beautiful >>Indian Pincess. She bestowed to me "The Sunbust". A beautiful feathered >>backpack. We danced all night. A truely awesome experience. >> >>Then in other dreams, many actually, I was shown the whirlpool. A giant >>thing, >>probably 300 feet across. You could feel the power and the glory. I have >>seen >>smaller ones too, an even have a pool in my dreams where I can swim in the >>whirlpool. Not a jacuzzi but a full size whirlpool! It is great fun to >>go >>round and round or go stand in the vortex. That is where I came to even >>greater >>understanding of Whirlpower. >> >>If any of you can help me in any way with my Quest I will thank you and >>Mother >>Nature will thank you. We are at "The Crossroads" of our civilization and >>if we >>don't make the correct choice we will have to do this all over again. >>Help >>me >>make a difference! >> >>The foundation of my theory is based on gravity being the cause of >>evaporation >>and the speed of light. >> >>I think a better understanding if this action will give the perspective >>needed >>in physics to understand the mysterious motions in nature on Earth and in >>the >>Universe, and lead to an understanding of my theory. >> >>If I can get science to test my theory, which they are just begining to >>recognize and plans underway to test, I think it will lead us to a new age >>and a >>new abundant supply of clean energy. >> >>I am not an important person nor am I a scientist, although I went to >>college >>for ten years and majored in electives I never really got interested in >>getting >>a degree. I took a number of science courses in college, even a graduate >>level >>cosmology course but it has been very difficult to get my message across >>since I >>am not carrying the PhD. Things are getting better in the past month but I >>still >>have a long way to go. >> >>To me the most amazing thing about this work was finding out science never >>has >>built a whirlpool and tested it. Many vortexes have been built along the >>lines >>of what I call a tornado type or simple vortex but never has a vortex been >>built >>like what I call a hurricane type or compound vortex. Building one should >>not >>be difficult to do but it is far beyond my ability. Maybe some of you can >>help >>me get this information to those in science interested in doing test >>experiments. >> >>I look forward to any comments. All my work on this is given freely to >>all >>as >>stated in my Whirlpower Declaration. I know someone is likely to >>plagerize >>my >>work but so far it does not appear any have and I have years of archived >>work up >>on this. My thinking is this concept cannot really be stolen because when >>proven and people know a whirlpool can generate electricity almost anyone >>will >>be able to build a simple "Hero's Fountain" and connect their power needs >>to >>"the wheelwork of nature". >> >>Einstien said, "all it takes is a dream". >> >>Tesla said, "ere it be many generations, man will connect his machinery to >>the >>very wheelwork of nature". >> >>Hawking said, anyone that says science understands the basic fundamentals >>is >>saying "garbage". >> >>Dennard says, "I have a dream, Whirlpower is the wheelwork of nature!" >> >>David G. Dennard >>The Phoenix >>"in sackcloth and ashes" >>"out of the fire and brimstone" >>http://www.whirlpower.cc >> >> >> >>******************************************************************************** >> >> What is Whirlpower? >> >>Whirlpower is a gravitational force of spinning mass. Much like spinning a >>charge makes an additional magnetic force, spinning mass makes an >>additional >>gravitational force. It affects its surrounding area the greater the >>wobble. All >>spinning objects wobble be it ever so great or small. It acts like a lever >>as >>far as how gravity affects the area around a spinning mass. >> >>When the hurricane gets big and fast enough, the eye wall wobbles and >>pulls >>the >>hurricane. This acceleration is Whirlpower. >> >>The debris field kicked up by the tornado that picks up huge objects like >>cars, >>houses, the infamous flying cows, etc., is the effect of the spinning >>vortex on >>its surrounding area. This effect is Whirlpower. >> >>When a neutron star spins at 300 revolutions per second it causes matter >>to >>spin >>around it in orbit at 1,000 revolutions per second. That acceleration is >>Whirlpower. >> >>A black hole frame drags gas around it, and it is "wobbling like a child's >>toy >>top as it slows its spin and begins to teeter in all directions" (quote >>from >>Kathy Sawyer, the Washington Post). >> >>The Earth spins and wobbles. This action pulls on the Moon increasing its >>orbital radius. This increase is Whirlpower. >> >>The sun spins and the wobble drives the planets. Whirlpower. >> >>The Galaxy spins like a giant hurricane, the dense core (and black holes) >>wobbles and the stars proceed. Need I say more? >> >>Of course. And I have to keep saying it till we build the whirlpool. The >>hurricane is said the be the most mysterious event in nature. It was >>announced >>on the news recently that "almost everything science had thought to be >>true >>about the vortex before, was wrong"! >> >>Now you don't have to be an Einstein to see a pattern starting to >>develope. >>If >>you read my theory in detail and look at my "childish sketches", I >>describe >>a >>machine that can use Whirlpower to generate electricity and clean water. >> >>We need Whirlpower NOW! >> >>Whirlpower is about gravity being "The Force" and how that force works. It >>is >>the Phoenix, Tao of Eagle, the "Way" things work, the principle of flight, >>the >>power of the hurricane, the driving force of the Universe. It is opening >>the >>void. Density displacement. Motion due to gravity. >> >>Gravity is like the balance of the scale, it will always try to balance. >>It >>causes the motion by pulling on the more dense thus pushing away the less >>dense. >>It attempts to find density displacement balance. The heat carried in the >>void >>is real, but it is not the origin. Understanding this leads to >>understanding how >>gravity really works and how a machine can be made to harness this force. >>Whirlpower is one of many design concepts that can harness the force of >>gravity. >>It is simple and easy to understand once you understand "Pearl of Wisdom". >>If >>you think it is creating energy then you don't understand Whirlpower. It >>is >>not >>free energy any more that solar, wind or hydro. Actually all energy is >>given >>freely by nature but there is no "free energy". It all comes from "The >>Force" of >>gravity. >> >>Whirlpower is "The Way" (The Tao) to follow the pattern nature provides >>and >>make >>a "full circle system". >> >>David G. Dennard >>The Phoenix >>"the hardest working man in dreamland" >>http://www.whirlpower.cc >> >>******************************************************************************** >> >> >>John Gronin said this about Whirlpower after a recent debate. He listened >>and >>took notes and compiled this excellent reference. >> >> >>Whirlpower is based on a rotating mass of water powered by gravity that >>produces >>a wobble that can be captured and used to generate electric power. >> >>Frame dragging; >>My reference quoted below: >>http://www.rdrop.com/users/green/school/framdrag.htm >> >>"...In 1918, Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity predicted that >>rotating bodies, such as black holes, drag space and time around itself as >>it >>rotates. In November of 1997, astronomers using NASA's Rossi X-ray Timing >>Explorer (RXTE) spacecraft made a startling discovery: evidence that >>supports >>this effect known as frame dragging. >> >>So we have a rotating mass and continuing... >> >>"...Precession, according to Dave Dooling, is "seen when a toy top both >>spins >>rapidly about its own axis, yet at the same time, executes a slower >>circular >>motion about the lower vertical axis. This second circular motion is >>precession, and it's not only found in toy tops, but also . . . [in] >>accreting >>disks around black holes in distant space." >> >>and of course "whirlpools" so now we have wobble.... >> >>and if that wobble is a part of the "frame dragging" effect. Then if we >>interpose a something that is coupled to the frame being dragged (like >>your >>paddle arrangement) perhaps the motion of the paddles can be connected to >>a >>generator and electricity produced. >> >>In order for us to get more "energy" out of this system than is put in to >>preserving the "whirlpool" there has to be some at present unknown or >>known and >>not accepted "New Science " about the properties of rotating masses. >> >>you cite Hal Puthoff and the ZPF >> >>http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/free/zpe1.html >>"...the well known Russian physicist Andrei Sakharov put forward the >>somewhat >>radical hypothesis that gravitation might not be a fundamental interaction >>at >>all, but rather a secondary or residual effect associated with other >>(non-gravitational) fields. (6) >> >>Specifically, Sakharov suggested that gravity might be an induced effect >>brought >>about by changes in the zero-point energy of the vacuum, due to the >>presence of >>matter. >> >>If correct, gravity would then be understood as a variation on the Casimir >>theme, in which background zero-point-energy pressures were again >>responsible." >> >>and: >> >>http://www.ldolphin.org/energetic.html >> >>"...On the other hand, accelerated motion through the vacuum can in >>principle >>reveal the presence of the ZPF energy density directly.... Yet another >>factor >>which shows up in the ZPF spectrum of an accelerated observer is found, >>via >>the >>equivalence principle, to reveal a deep connection between zero-point >>energy and >>gravity along lines originally proposed by Sakharov [27] (that gravity >>could be >>understood as an induced effect brought about by changes in the quantum >>fluctuation energy of the vacuum due to the presence of matter [17])." >> >>further study finds: >> >>A. Rueda & B. Haisch, Foundations of Physics, vol. 28, 1057--1108, (1998). >>saying: >> >>http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/9802030 >> >>"...The interaction process between the accelerated object and the vacuum >>... >>appears to generate a physical resistance (reaction force) to acceleration >>suggestive of what has been historically known as inertia." >> >>So now there is a potential connection between acceleration of matter and >>an >>interaction with the ZPF creating both inertia and gravity. >> >>Vera Rubin's contribution could be: >> >>http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/Museum/rubinv.html >> >>"...Newtonian laws of gravity predict that stars on the outside edge of a >>spiral >>galaxy would orbit slower than stars in the center of that galaxy; like >>planets >>orbiting around the sun. Vera's research shows that they do not. Stars >>orbiting >>the outside of a spiral galaxy travel just as fast as those orbiting >>closer >>to >>the center. As a result of her unexpected finding, scientists now believe >>that >>there is some huge, invisible mass exerting the gravitational force >>necessary >>for those outer stars to stay in orbit. Vera Rubin's research suggests >>that >>at >>least 90% of the universe is made of "dark matter," a substance that >>scientists >>today struggle to identify and describe." >> >>so we have a rotating mass (Spiral Galaxies) exhibiting non newtonian >>gravitational mechanics. Perhaps there is a connection between frame >>dragging, >>Zpf induced inertial effects, and a zpf induced gravity that could explain >>the >>observed behavior of spiral galaxies? you also mention the work of : >>Viktor >>Schauberger >> >>http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger/tecno_1.htm >> >>"... "We are using the wrong kind of motion!" >> >>The austrian forest warden and inventor Viktor Schauberger has researched >>and >>successfully applied the laws of motion of water. He said that we are >>using >>the >>wrong kind of motion,... the natural motion of water is a centripetal >>vortical >>movement, turning or "rolling" inward around the axis of motion of the >>water's >>flow. This kind of motion tends to accelerate and contract the stream of >>water, >>accumulating kinetic energy in the form of an increased velocity." >> >>that if it is rotating is an acceleration.. >> >>"...Anyone who has doubts as to the fact that the natural spiral movement >>can >>increase the kinetic energy of water, need only remember the extraordinary >>energies contained in tornadoes and hurricane winds. These energies are >>accumulated by just the same spiral movement." >> >>Therefore if a rotating mass of water, increases its kinetic energy, has >>more >>inertia and generates local gravity fluctuations maybe Whirlpower has some >>possibility. >> >>******************************************************************************** >> >>Thank you John, now there is a person who can think. >> >> >>Aquarius. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 23:14:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04569; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:13:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:13:15 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925061313.32309.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.15] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: The Cosmic Triangle Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:13:05 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"vGxbM3.0.F71.wV6xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30534 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone, Now, back to the gravity paradigm. If Whirlpower works it fits into many of the most recent space science discoveries; frame dragging, mysterious dark matter, and "The Cosmic Triangle". And it all is about how light moves. Is it moving itself thermodynamically or is gravity the cause? I say gravity! "The Curve" forthcoming. David >> >> > PRINCETON UNIVERSITY >> > Office of Communications >> > Stanhope Hall, Princeton, New Jersey 08544-5264 >> > Telephone 609-258-3601; Fax 609-258-1301 >> > >> > Date: May 27, 1999 >> > >> > Scientists Conclude Anti-Gravity Force Is Accelerating Expansion of the >> > Universe >> > >> > PRINCETON, N.J. -- After reviewing recent astronomical observations, >> > Princeton scientists have concluded that the evidence strongly supports >> > the existence of a mysterious anti-gravity force that is causing the >> > expansion of the universe to accelerate. >> >>I have been talking about this for quite a while and have thousands of >>archived >>pages on the subject. Although I am coming at the subject from a >>theoretical >>viewpoint I think you may find my work to be helpful in understanding your >>data. >> >>I call this "anti-gravity" force Whirlpower. >> >> > They presented their argument in a review article that will be >>published >> > in the May 28 edition of the journal Science. The researchers are Neta >> > Bahcall and Jeremiah Ostriker of the Department of Astrophysics and >> > Paul Steinhardt of the Department of Physics, in collaboration with >> > Saul Perlmutter of Berkeley National Laboratory. >> > >> > Scientists have known since the 1920s that the universe is expanding, >> > and they discovered in the last year that the expansion is likely to go >> > on forever. In recent months, however, evidence has emerged to suggest >> > that not only will the expansion continue, it will accelerate. The only >> > way to account for such acceleration is the existence of a force to >> > counteract the gravitational forces that would stabilize or shrink >> > the universe. >> >>And I think this same force is the unaccounted energy of motion found in >>Vera >>Rubins's study (not mysterious dark matter) on spiral galaxies and relates >>to >>the recently proven frame dragging discoveries. >> > >> > The Princeton scientists have now bolstered that idea by reconciling >> > three independent sets of data and showing that the data have a >> > surprising degree of agreement. The data, some of which was generated >> > at Princeton, have been used to answer three questions: How much >> > matter is in the universe? Is the expansion rate slowing down or >> > speeding up? And, is the universe flat? The Princeton scientists used >> > a framework they call the "Cosmic Triangle," to relate the three >> > questions and show for the first time how they merge into a unified >> > picture of a universe that is flat, lightweight and expanding at an >> > accelerating rate. >> >>I think so too. I don't think the acceleration is coming from the >>Universe >>being heavier thus more inertia, but from Whirlpower. >> > >> > "It's a very exciting time because we are starting to reveal the status >> > of the universe and it tells us something very unexpected," says >>Bahcall. >> > It is the acceleration idea that is most surprising, she says. Bahcall >> > cautions, however, that these conjectures must be confirmed by >> > further improvements in the data, which are expected to come from >> > a variety of sources over the next few years. >> >>I have a very easy way to prove all this right here on Earth that will not >>be >>very difficult to do. >> > >> > The expansion of the universe can be described in terms of a car >> > coasting along a road as a result of a big push (the Big Bang). The >>mass >> > of the universe, with the gravitational pull it exerts, is analogous to >> > the friction and wind resistance that slow the car. In this analogy, >> > there is so little resistance (gravitational tug) that the car never >> > stops. The only way it could accelerate is if it were rolling downhill >> > or if someone were depressing the gas pedal. The new force in the >> > universe is like the downhill tug or an engine pushing the car. >> >>Even more amazing is this energy of motion points to a completely new >>picture of >>an Infinite Universe that constantly recycles itself. That the Universe >>has >>always been here and will always be here. >> > >> > "The evidence is now getting stronger that there really is a force in >> > the universe that competes with gravity and causes repulsion instead >> > of attraction," says Ostriker. >> >>In my work I call this "The Pearl of Wisdom". It starts with a better >>understanding of evaportion and the speed of light being caused by >>gravity. >>Gravity balances the scales of densities pulling the more dense beneath >>the >>less >>dense thus pushing the less dense away. >> > >> > To account for this force, referred to as cosmic dark energy, >>scientists >> > recently have revived a concept called the cosmological constant. In >> > their paper, the Princeton scientists describe this cosmic dark energy >> > as "a vacuum energy assigned to empty space itself, a form of energy >> > with negative pressure." Einstein first introduced the cosmological >> > constant in 1917, but later withdrew it, calling it the worst mistake >> > of his life. Understanding the source and nature of this force poses >> > deep new problems for physicists. "It's of very profound physical >> > significance," says Ostriker. >> >>I agree. Einstein was so close. So was a man named Viktor Schauberger. >> > >> > The work to explain the source of this force already has begun. >> > Steinhardt, a co-author, recently introduced a possible new force >> > called quintessence, which may account for the dark energy. >> >>I hope you will look at my work and add it to your considerations. You an >>see >>an overview of my work in progress at; >> >>http://www.whirlpower.cc >> >>Also my work is being taken up by the Swedish Association for New Physics >>and >>the Malmo Group, who are experts in vortex science and Schauberger. A >>full >>Whirlpower section is going up soon at; >> >>http://www.newphys.se >> > >> > Another implication of this new understanding of the universe is that >> > it gives scientists a radically new picture of the future of the >>universe. >> > It appears that the dark energy could eventually overwhelm the >> > gravitational forces of matter. The density of matter in the universe >> > would then become insignificant, so that the universe would approach >> > an essentially uniform force field of dark energy. The researchers >> > conclude that understanding dark energy, and hence the future of the >> > universe, will be "one of the grand challenges of the millennium to >> > come." >> >>And I think the understand of this will give us a new and abundant supply >>of >>clean energy, The Holy Grail. >> >>I hope you will give my work some consideration as you study these new >>findings. >>I have been working on this exact concept for many years talking to >>scientists >>all over the world on archived lists. I am very glad to see science is >>finding >>more and more that backs my theory up! >> >>Don't expect to find me in any scientific society or credible institution. >>I am >>not an important person. My work is mostly inspired by my inner vision >>and >>I am >>working on putting the pieces together. Your work is the most interesting >>I >>have found yet. I hope to hear from you! >> >>David Dennard >> >> >>______________________________________________________________________ >>To unsubscribe, write to UFOscotland-unsubscribe listbot.com >>MSN Messenger Service lets you stay in touch instantly with >>your family & friends - Visit http://messenger.msn.com >>------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > >______________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe, write to UFOscotland-unsubscribe listbot.com >MSN Messenger Service lets you stay in touch instantly with >your family & friends - Visit http://messenger.msn.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Sep 24 23:24:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA07007; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:23:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:23:33 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925062332.70056.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.15] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: The Curve Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:23:27 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"KFCNb.0.Pj1.bf6xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30535 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is what is all about. I have noticed no comment on my invitation to post any data on a whirlpool ever being built and tested by science; a picture, a drawing, a theory, anything, please feel free to post the data. Same happened last year and on all the thousands of archived pages going back for years on all my lists. Many vortex has been built but never whirlpool! >> >>The Curve >> >>by David Dennard >> >> >>Einstein thought that space was not just a vacuum but a virtual void. And >>that >>there was space curved time that acted like inertia with no resistance. >>But >>more and more evidence points to the fluid type gravity model. One big >>clue was >>the way Einstein saw gravity and light. Thinking gravity attracted light >>he >>made a new theory to try and explain the motion of the Universe. Not >>being >>able >>to mate the electromagnetic and the gravitational model together has been >>the >>question of physics for a long time. >> >>I've been reading a great book about Einstein. I see exactly where the >>problem >>is and just like I thought it is about science not understanding "The >>Pearl >>of >>Wisdom". Not understanding gravity repels light is the root of the >>problem >>in >>physics, IMO, and this most basic fundamental misunderstanding is what is >>holding us as a civilization down. Like Kaku says, we are a primative 0 >>civilization. >> >>Bachall's and Perlmutter's Cosmic Triangle the gravity constant and the >>gravity >>telescope all play a part in the misunderstading. Eistein said everything >>hinged on his concept that gravity was pulling light in, causing the >>condensed >>light at the edge of the Sun from Stars in the background. My concept is >>that >>gravity is pushing out the light causing the condensed light, and that >>gravity >>causes the speed of light. >> >>If I am right and Eistsein was wrong about this, it means I found "The >>Curve"! >> >> A B >> >>llllllllllll llllllllllll >>llllllllllll llllllllllll (light is traveling top to bottom) >>llllllllllll llllllllllll >>(((((O)))))) ))))))O((((( >>llllllllllll llllllllllll >>llllllllllll llllllllllll >>llllllllllll llllllllllll >> >>In fig. A this is a representation of how I see gravity repeling light as >>it >>goes around the Sun. Fig. B is a view of how Einstein saw light being >>pulled in >>by the Sun. >> >>His inaccurate concept here is where the space curve error comes from and >>shows >>why Einstein thought there was space curved time. He didn't see the curve >>in >>the light going around the Sun. He saw it as a refraction. Now right off >>the >>bat it looks to me as if refraction will not cause a condensed light but a >>spectrum or rainbow light. I don't see how the attraction idea could >>condense >>light to start off with. I think his test of this measured the rebound of >>the >>light after the repuslsion of gravity, not the direct effect of gravity. >>It is >>really more of a slipstream effect. Same thing happens with cosmic rays >>and the >>meager gravity of the Earth. >> >>Einstein said his entire theory rested on this measurement. They thought >>they >>measured condensed light by gravitational attraction, but what they really >>measured was condensed light rebounding after condensed by the repulsion >>of >>gravity. >> >>Einstein's calculations were that this measurement of refraction would be >>1.75 >>seconds of an arc, but the measurement comes out to 1.64. Close but no >>cigar. >> >>Once we reach an understanding of the speed of light we can really "see" >>how the >>force of gravity works. >> >>Not understanding evaporation and the speed of sight are caused by gravity >>are >>such basic fundamental misconceptions it blinds us to the rest of the >>motions >>gravity is causing, including Whirlpower. Einstein was blinded by the >>light and >>thrown for a loop. >> >>If we can get some real data a whirlpool can generate electicity and >>people >>understand this most simple concept, people can start to build their own >>Whirlpower Machines. And that is just the begining. This concept also >>has >>a >>propulsion capacity, i.e. the UFO. Schauberger already got some work done >>on >>and Hallberg and I have a few ideas in mind on too! :) >> >> >>David Dennard >>http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 01:08:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA19653; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:07:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:07:49 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925080742.5035.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.131] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:07:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"6bkpf3.0._o4.KB8xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30536 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bill writes: Do we try to talk ourselves into justifying the theft, or >talk ourselves into believing that it never occured? If we bought ours >before we knew that the invention was stolen, does that make it OK to do >nothing? Or should we return our Levitrons back to Hones at Fascinations, >Seattle, with a letter explaining our opinion of his actions? Hi Bill and all, I hope when Whirlpower is proven (if?) you will all remember! :) I have given my information freely to all, although most don't want my free informtion, that will likely change very soon as more and more seem to be catching on. Whirlpower is just the basic form of this concept. I have much more advanced work more suitable for mass consumption I have not disclosed, ("The Wild Card"), but for a grass roots energy revolution "Hero's Fountain" can't be beat! David Dennard The Phoenix http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 01:12:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20906; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:12:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:12:18 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:19:30 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Planck frequency - addenda Resent-Message-ID: <"jDee03.0.a65.YF8xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30537 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:52 PM 9/24/99, Scott Little wrote: >Most ZPF enthusiasts say the Planck frequency (1.9E43 Hz) is the >appropriate high-frequency cutoff. Either matter quits interacting with EM >radiation above that frequency or that is the highest frequency that >spacetime itself can sustain. > >It should be noted that a single photon at that frequency, according to >Planck's E = h*nu, contains about 1.3E10 joules of energy. To make that >huge number barely comprehensible, it is the energy required to raise 100 >tons to a height of about 9 miles. Thanks for the info. It is really surprising that I derived a rough approximation to 1.9E43 Hz in the first go-round, i.e.: {Qt} = 1.910903(04)x10^-43 s (60) or nu = 1/{Qt} = 5.23312(79)x10^42 Hz. Too bad the corresponding mass quantum I first cam up with was way too high. Also I wonder about the 2 Pi showing up in a quantized system - except possibly as an approximation to 2 Pi, which can easily show up in random processes involving only straight lines. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Correction and notes: I meant to say earlier: E = h nu does not in itself imply that energy is quantized, it only states that energy and frequency remain in proportion. In another post: By substituting for {Qp} {Qd} the value c^2 {Qm} {Qt} into the Heisenberg equation we get: N1 N2 c^2 {Qm} {Qt} >= h/(2 Pi) or N1 N2 {Qe} {Qt} >= h/(2 Pi) which is a very strange deduction. It seems to practically guarantee free energy! The energy-time should be constrained, not provided a lower bound. The meaning of this was not clear since Heisenberg obtained (delta E)(delta t) <= h/(2 pi) for borrowed energy. Combining the two perhaps indicates: {Qe} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi) which leads right back to the original problematic: {Qpa} = {Qp} {Qd} = h/(2 pi) that leads to the problems: {Qm}{Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) (violating Heisenberg) {Qm} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi c^2) (a mass-time certainty) 2 Pi {Qp} {Qd} = h = Wmax {Qp} Wmax = 2 Pi {Qd} (violating quantum nature of length {Qd} plus setting maximum wavelength of 6 {Qd}) Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 01:13:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA20951; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:12:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:12:21 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:19:34 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: NOTES Fundamental Quantum Units Resent-Message-ID: <"bTps82.0.D75.bF8xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30538 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Dear HH ....And Vo., > > Rome was not built in a day! > > OK > > My first problem: > > A quant of TIME? > > How much is a quant of TIME?? I say again, please be patient! >,measured in WHAT? Seconds > > Basically, first, what is TIME? The scientific approach is to make a hypothesis, deduce properties from the hypothesis, and test them to check your concepts. Take a shot at it. Your guess is as good as mine. Often time is measured by physical objects in harmonic motion, in a resonance of some kind. The smaller the object the faster the repetitive motion, e.g. the cesium atom used in the cesium clock. If there is a smallest distance and smallest mass, and smallest charge, etc. then there is in a very practical sense a smallest possible unit of time. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 04:19:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA23855; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:16:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:16:23 -0700 Message-ID: <003701bf0747$ab133b60$505323cb -> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: Magnetic bubbles.... Nanobubbles Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:57:19 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vRd3v.0.fq5.7yAxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30539 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Magnetic bubbles are NOT bubbles, in any sense.. they are not even >hollow! > I am wondering if you've read Sweet's material. It seemed to me his rationale for "collapsing bubbles" was an induced dynamic within the magnetic material, not the structural property per se. Perhaps you are saying you understand his work, and found it not credible? Peter Nielsen From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 05:21:52 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA00633; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 05:21:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 05:21:03 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:20:55 EDT Subject: Re: Whirlpower is just the basic form of this concept To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: daviddennard hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 166 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id FAA00606 Resent-Message-ID: <"26Gpv.0.p9.luBxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30540 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 25/09/99 10:08:24é), daviddennard hotmail.com a écrit : > > Whirlpower is just the basic form of this concept. I have much more > advanced work more suitable for mass consumption I have not disclosed, ("The > > Wild Card"), but for a grass roots energy revolution "Hero's Fountain" can't > > be beat! > > David Dennard Hi David, Why don't you give us a simple and reproducible with a detailled diagram of a working device that anyone can duplicate easily for checking your claim ? I shall be very glad to build a successfull whirlpower device and publish the test results in my wbe site, this will confirm to all that the whirlopower effect is real and not only a concept... Best Regards Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509 aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 06:01:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA04637; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:00:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:00:37 -0700 Message-ID: <37ECC88D.5D1F ca-ois.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:05:17 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re>Whirlpower References: <19990925062332.70056.qmail hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rm1BE.0.N81.rTCxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30541 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: David Dennard wrote: > > This is what is all about. > > I have noticed no comment on my invitation to post any data on a whirlpool > ever being built and tested by science; a picture, a drawing, a theory, > anything, please feel free to post the data. Same happened last year and > on all the thousands of archived pages going back for years on all my lists. > Many vortex has been built but never whirlpool! The four pole AC motor invented by N. Tesla will produce a rotating magnetic field analogous to the "whirl" force of a whirlpool. If you remove the rotor and replace that with a paper cone and throw some iron filings in there the filings will zip around the central axis of rotation in response to the "whirl" force. There is another component however which is the "inward dragging" force which tends to pull objects caught in the whirl force towards the center or "eye". This inward dragging force can be simulated in the above example by putting a ring magent at the bottom of the paper cone. I don't know of any way of getting over unity power out of this sort of arrangement though. I have often wondered if water with a high disolved iron content could be made to respond to magnetic forces. Anybody know of any experiment dealing with this? Jim Ostrowski From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 06:55:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA14419; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:53:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:53:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37ECDA09.DE1342E3 servtech.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:19:53 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic bubbles.... Nanobubbles References: <003701bf0747$ab133b60$505323cb -> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"V2XjX3.0.9X3.NFDxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30542 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > > Magnetic bubbles are NOT bubbles, in any sense.. they are not even > >hollow! > > > > I am wondering if you've read Sweet's material. > > It seemed to me his rationale for "collapsing bubbles" was an induced > dynamic within the magnetic > material, not the structural property per se. > > Perhaps you are saying you understand his work, and found it not credible? > > Peter Nielsen I was looking into magnetic bubbles a year or so ago and found them to be very interesting. Hard magnetic bubbles have the very interesting property of move at an angle to the externally applied magnetic field gradient. That is, if the magnetic field gradient is, say, top to bottom, then the hard magnetic bubble will move through the material at an angle of theta from the top to bottom direction. Theta can be between zero and 90 degrees, but I don't think 90 degrees is ever really achieved. Its just the limit. Anyway, I thought it might then be possible to make the *material* containing the hard magnetic bubbles to also move at an angle to the applied magnetic field gradient. I applied for a couple of patents on the idea of using hard magnetic bubbles to move the material in directions not otherwise possible. (The patents were recently granted. This doesn't mean their worth anything! I still haven't positively demonstrated the idea...) You see, if the material moves at an angle to the applied magnetic field directions, then you can decompose the motion into a parallel and perpendicular direction. Block the parallel direction and your left with perpendicular motion. If the magnetic field direction is radial, then the perpendicular direction can be circular. You are left with a magnetic material moving in circular motion. Again, that's the idea.... I haven't been able to experimentally prove it. So it could all just be garbage. Now, from what I've read, Sweet's magnetization process involved (sometimes?) applying an AC field (and an electric field??). Searl's magnetization process involves applying an AC field to the magnets. One way to create magnetic bubbles in a material is to apply magnetic pulses to the material. Could it be that Sweet and Searl are generating magnetic bubbles and don't know it? I don't know. I rather thought that Sweet and Searl's stuff, if it works at all, would turn out to involve some kind of long range spin wave or magnetization oscillations. But then I don't see why such waves wouldn't dampen out. See my web pages at http://www.servtech.com/~rwgray/energy/energy01.html if your interested in looking into this magnetic bubble stuff a little more. Bob Gray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 06:57:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA15139; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:55:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:55:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:55:21 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-L eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device In-Reply-To: <37ECCB46.CE0 cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mD2251.0.Pi3.AHDxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30543 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > The lesson here is that inventors must protect their invention like they > would their own son or daughter. A patent is like a deed to your > property. For professional inventors, that is exactly the situation. > When your rights are infringed upon then you must yell it from the > roof-tops > or it will fall on deaf ears. If you do not protect your rights then why > should others even bat an eye? Yes, and unfortunately the inventor of Levitron seems to think that somebody besides himself should protect his discovery. When nobody does, he decides that the universe is evil. This is silly. When little kids tussle in the day-care, and when one takes the toy of another, does the victim run and hide in a corner, life permanently destroyed, forever convinced that the whole world is evil? Or instead does he just yank the toy back from his tormentor and glare angrily at him? > It is survival of the fitest... Ah. "Survival of the biggest asshole." That is a fallacy. Science says differently. If you want to see some debunking of this, see: HERETICAL EVOLUTION: cooperation, artificial life, prisoners' dilemma http://www.amasci.com/weird/hevolv.html > with six billion people expected to be > alive in the year 2010 you had better watch out for number first or > you will be consumed by the sharks... this is this hard, cold reality... > I did not make the rules. Watching out for number one is what makes the world such a nasty place. There is a HUGE difference between doing what it takes to live well, versus putting ourselves ahead of all others. ONLY if we put ourselves ahead of all others do we become surrounded with self-centered assholes. Why? Because putting ourselves ahead of all others converts *US* into assholes too, and if everyone behaves this way, then guess what? We end up living in a world filled with selfish idiots, and we all complain about it, but we remain conveniently blind to the fact that *WE* are selfish idiots as well. To make the world a better place, we can cut the asshole-ery out of our lives. Does doing this make us weak? Well, look at me. Am I weak? If you think not, then perhaps there is merit to striving to be a nonasshole. To maintain the stance of asshole-ness throughout life, just constantly accuse everyone else in the world of being self-centered human slime. This is the best way to avoid looking at our own actions. It is a very powerful technique, I recommend it highly. On the other end of the spectrum, it's very effective to say NOT that "I'm OK and you're OK", but rather "You are human garbage but so am I," The greatest power we have is to recognize exactly how bad we are. If we know just how bad we are, and we constantly practice keeping our eyes open to the fact, then this alone will move us to make changes. It's another extremely powerful technique, even more powerful than the "Asshole colored glasses" I mention above. Yes, yet another sermon. Please deposit your contribution in the tray as it passes among the pews! :) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 07:13:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22184; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:13:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:13:14 -0700 Message-ID: <37ECD7E8.2489006E ro.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:10:48 -0500 From: "Patrick V. Reavis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QksJH3.0.UQ5.wXDxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30544 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > Watching out for number one is what makes the world such a nasty place. > There is a HUGE difference between doing what it takes to live well, > versus putting ourselves ahead of all others. ONLY if we put ourselves > ahead of all others do we become surrounded with self-centered assholes. > Why? And Patrick tosses in his dime store philosophy: When I am asked to tutor students at the college from which I graduated, they often ask, "How much will this cost?", I tell them that once they graduate, the price is that they must also tutor students for free. You only get to keep what you give away. -- Regards, Patrick V. Reavis http://ro.com/~preavis http://ro.com/~preavis/Quiz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 09:19:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA17223; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:14:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:14:50 -0700 Message-ID: <006701bf0779$31bbed20$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater & ZPE-ElectroKinetic Phenomena Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:11:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"yaT9h2.0.1D4.wJFxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30545 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The science of Electrokinetic-Surface Phenomena associated with the interface of water (in particular)and a solid, dovetails nicely with the ZPE/Casimir Effects. This tends to tie the F&P Cell, Mizuno-Ohmori's Glow Discharge, the Griggs& Huffman's Pump, Potapov's Cavition, Sonocavitation, and even Rumsford's 1780 cannon honing calorimetry experiment to ZPE. ELECTRICAL DOUBLE LAYER: The Stern Layer created immediately adjacent to the solid-liquid interface, (thickness ~= the Ion Radius)by electrostatic (Zeta Potential) and adsorption forces, and the more diffuse Guoy or Shear Layer by the attraction of ions in the water to free electrons in the solid (metal) combined with the dielectic constant, conductivity, viscosity, and surface tension, of the water, tend to mimick the effects seen with Casimir's "plates" and Boyer's contention that the ZPE Fluctuations tend to act to produce a Fluctuating Outward Force, on matter. Have Fun! :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 09:25:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA22697; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:24:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:24:30 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990925091233.00a01b40 pop3.oro.net> X-Sender: tessien pop3.oro.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:24:14 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Ross Tessien Subject: Patents: Re: "Levitron" maglev device In-Reply-To: References: <37ECCB46.CE0 cyberportal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IBSYH2.0.YY5.zSFxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30546 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:55 AM 9/25/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Bruce A. Perreault wrote: > >> The lesson here is that inventors must protect their invention like they >> would their own son or daughter. A patent is like a deed to your >> property. > > >For professional inventors, that is exactly the situation. > > >> When your rights are infringed upon then you must yell it from the >> roof-tops >> or it will fall on deaf ears. If you do not protect your rights then why >> should others even bat an eye? > >Yes, and unfortunately the inventor of Levitron seems to think that >somebody besides himself should protect his discovery. There is a $10 or so book, patent it yourself. Patent office only charges about $500 for a patent. If anyone fails to avail themselves of that, then they frankly didn't perceive that there was a value in the product prior to someone else establishing that value. The cold hard reality is, the majority difficulty in making money from an invention is NOT coming up with the invention. There are thousands of inventors with fantastic ideas ready to make a million dollars. The fact is, the majority of the difficulty and risk associated with it is in the money spent on marketing and sales. You need to find financing in order to launch a real product. And you DON"T need any patents to win at that game. You need the best marketing campaign and the best sales distribution and sales team. So if the guy failed to patent it, then tough beans, he had the opportunity. If the new company made some further advances and they DID patent those, then great. In 20 years, we all own those advances when they become public domain. Had they not done it, I wouldn't have a Levitron today. Weber BBQ "stole" one of my devices do to the shitty way the patent claims were written, and that was through an attorney. Am I crying? No. I objected to the way they were written, my partner didn't, I had given him the call, he made it, and the rest is history. The invention is the conical grate in the chimney charcoal starters they sell which creates a simple venturi and cuts charcoal lighting time to about 10 minutes with no lighter fluid. This stuff happens all the time. To make money, the typical inventor thinks you get this idea, and the idea on it's own is worth a million bucks. That is the most ignorant idea there is, and yet most inventors think that is what the score is. The fact is, you could take over ~30 to 70 percent any market you wanted (depending on how many big players are involved) with superior marketing and sales efforts. Sure you need nearly equal or superior products, but that is easy to accomplish. You invent one stupid widget improvement and voila, it is superior and the public buys into it. Anyone who thinks someone stole something ought to just go back to the drawing board and come up with another invention, then patent the thing, and THEN, go talking to people to license it to. But your patents better have taken the time to anticipate how the other guys will accomplish the same task in a new way, and hence not violate your patent(s). The gist is, it is easy to patent things, it is easy to invent things, it is radically difficult to make a dime off of the best of inventions. That is why 95 percent of all companies go bankrupt within 5 years. And that is why you won't find money growing on trees for your PET MILLION DOLLAR project. rt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 10:07:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA03579; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:05:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:05:17 -0700 Message-ID: <007801bf0780$3e530620$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: RE: OU Coffee Cup Heater, Electrical Double Layer Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:02:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0745.739A67A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"tjfDA2.0.rt.C3Gxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30547 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0745.739A67A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This explains it better than I can. :-) http://www.bath.ac.uk/~chsacf/solartron/electro/html/dl.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0745.739A67A0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Electrochemistry Refresher.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Electrochemistry Refresher.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.bath.ac.uk/~chsacf/solartron/electro/html/dl.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.bath.ac.uk/~chsacf/solartron/electro/html/dl.htm Modified=80CB19E47F07BF018E ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0745.739A67A0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 10:24:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA10544; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:23:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:23:06 -0700 Message-ID: <008101bf0782$bb470580$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: RE; OU Coffee Cup Heater, Zeta potential and electrolytes Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:20:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0748.06114CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"fApyL3.0.ca2.wJGxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30548 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0748.06114CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Site. FJS http://reliant.pharm.nottingham.ac.uk/elect.html ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0748.06114CA0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Zeta potential and electrolytes.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Zeta potential and electrolytes.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://reliant.pharm.nottingham.ac.uk/elect.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://reliant.pharm.nottingham.ac.uk/elect.html Modified=802641878207BF01B7 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0748.06114CA0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 11:51:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA02811; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:49:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:49:13 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:53:44 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic bubbles.... Nanobubbles In-Reply-To: <003701bf0747$ab133b60$505323cb -> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KnLiD1.0.rh.eaHxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30549 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Peter, I have not read Flyd's work. BUT: If you call a sound wave the same as a light, but lower in frequency ... does that make a mechanical wave into an EM wave? I have no IDEA WHAT he is calling a magnetic bubble.... but they are NOT bubbles... or hollow ... You don't "get anything" if they "collapse"... because they don't... In a little bit I will describe them to everyone. J On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Peter Nielsen wrote: > > Magnetic bubbles are NOT bubbles, in any sense.. they are not even > >hollow! > > > > I am wondering if you've read Sweet's material. > > It seemed to me his rationale for "collapsing bubbles" was an induced > dynamic within the magnetic > material, not the structural property per se. > > Perhaps you are saying you understand his work, and found it not credible? > > Peter Nielsen > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 11:51:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03749; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:50:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:50:42 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Curve In-Reply-To: <19990925062332.70056.qmail hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tQ9Fg.0.Vw.2cHxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30550 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is a "virtual void" ? Is it different from a void? How? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 12:10:19 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA08306; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:09:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:09:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:13:38 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990925054942.93564.qmail hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ydPxj3.0.i12.KtHxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30551 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: y Centrifugal separators have been around for a long time. Look them up in McGraw Hill encyc. of Science and Technology. Mush MUCH study and testing... any srtificial tornados and hurricanes build by the weather people... and they measured the doo dah out of them! Go to the library. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 12:32:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA14605; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:30:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:30:48 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925193046.96311.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.140] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re-Whirlpower Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:30:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"YTC2s2.0.3a3.eBIxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30552 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim says: >The four pole AC motor invented by N. Tesla will produce a rotating >magnetic field analogous to the "whirl" force of a whirlpool. If you >remove the rotor and replace that with a paper cone and throw some iron >filings in there the filings will zip around the central axis of >rotation in response to the "whirl" force. > >I don't know of any way of getting over unity power out of this sort of >arrangement though. I don't either. Electromagnetic ZPE will not work in my opinion. That will be part of the delusion of the old paradigm if I am correct. It does have another potential use I will disclose soon but I prefer to wait until I/we get the current flowing from gravity driven ZPE. David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 12:50:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20613; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:48:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:48:59 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925194859.64905.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.140] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower Introduction Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:48:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QTzsB1.0._15.hSIxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30553 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John quips: > Go to the library. John, this was the major comment years ago. We are way past that now. I have been the library and I have thousands of archived pages to back me up, and the professional opinion of vortex experts. I whirlpool has never been built and tested by science. If you know of such a test please post it. Sock it to me! David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 13:01:46 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA24580; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:00:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:00:28 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <4a9940b1.251e83d7 aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:00:23 EDT Subject: Re: Sci. Am. article about Material Sciences To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"tU-Zb1.0.v_5.SdIxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30554 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, You wrote that platinum had been tried, but it melted; and you concluded, "I do not know of any common metal with a higher melting point than tungsten." Neither do I, but there is one that's tougher than tungsten and has a much higher melting point than platinum. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 13:07:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA26271; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:06:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:06:44 -0700 From: Tgsleath aol.com Message-ID: <9573df41.251e854e aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:06:38 EDT Subject: Re: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"pkbP-3.0.PQ6.JjIxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30555 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I would like to clarify my position a little further. I am not looking for 'something for nothing'. I am looking for negative entropic processes that may occur in Nature. Vortex flow appears to be a candidate. Kinetic energy appears to be released as the vortex drops in temperature. This is the reverse of the usual thermodynamic direction enshrined in official physics. Official science dosn't look for such processes and therefore denies the possibility. My plan is to build a self-feeding vortex. As others have noted, there is nothing to be gained by trying to harness the angular momentum (the rotational flow). Angular momentum is required to maintain the vortex. Trying to harness it will simply collapse the vortex. My plan is to study the axial flow. Schauberger/Hasslberger suggest that the axial velocity (kinetic energy) of a water vortex in a tapered pipe will increase at the expense of thermal energy. If this is the case, then the vortex can be arranged to drive itself while it drops in temperature. If there is any 'trick' to this process, it is in the minimizing of wall friction by the use of a rotational flow. This appears to be a very convenient side effect of vortex flow, but it is not 'something for nothing'. By way of background, I am a semi-retired aircraft engineer. I live in the Seattle area. I have two college degrees in engineering. I am well aware of the so called Second Law of Thermodynamics. It is not provable. It is mearly a consensus of opinion based on limited observation. If anyone has, or knows of, EXPERIMENTAL evidence to support or contradict any of the following proposals, please let me know. I'd be glad to hear from you. > 1) The axial resistance of water flowing in a straight pipe is greatly > reduced (or even eliminated) if the water is cooled to 4 deg C and the water > is caused to rotate about the axial direction. > > 2) Observation 1) is also true for a tapered down pipe allowing the axial > velocity to increase inversly with cross-sectional area with little (or no) > drag penalty. > > 3) The increase in axial kinetic energy in 2) is balanced by a drop in > temperature of the water. Trevor Sleath 425 335 4394 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 13:15:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28881; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:13:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:13:52 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925201347.76087.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.122] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Curve Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:13:46 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"y4Piq.0.B37.0qIxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30556 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John asks: > What is a "virtual void" ? > > Is it different from a void? > How? First, a vacuum is not a void. Einstein though space was virtually nothing, a void. But all the data points to the fluid nature of space. I think that was his big mistake. The Cosmic Triangle backs this up. Not understanding the fluid nature of space andd thinking gravity attracts light is at the root of our thermodynamic delusion that has led our science down a blind alley. To Jean-Louis, I answered but it did not come up. Please forward to the list. To Bill and all on patents, I am not seeking patents on Whirlpower. I hope my years of public disclosure will put it in public domain. We shall see. I do hope to patent my more advancd work and my dozens of other inventions one day but I am not business wise nor business interested. David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 13:32:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA05358; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:31:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:31:17 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925203116.73693.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.122] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:31:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"mxxtR1.0.eJ1.L4Jxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30557 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Trevor writes: > >I would like to clarify my position a little further. I am not looking for >'something for nothing'. I am looking for negative entropic processes that >may occur in Nature. As you will not in my theory Whirlpower follows the pattern given freely to us by nature, it is not "something for nothing" Vortex flow appears to be a candidate. Kinetic energy >appears to be released as the vortex drops in temperature. This is the >reverse of the usual thermodynamic direction enshrined in official physics. >Official science dosn't look for such processes and therefore denies the >possibility. Temperature is not the key in a gravity paradigm. Hydro plants do not need temp to generate energy. > >My plan is to build a self-feeding vortex. As others have noted, there is >nothing to be gained by trying to harness the angular momentum (the >rotational flow). Angular momentum is required to maintain the vortex. Agreed. Whirlpower does not attempt to tap angular momentum. >Trying to harness it will simply collapse the vortex. Very true. My plan is to study >the axial flow. Schauberger/Hasslberger suggest that the axial velocity >(kinetic energy) of a water vortex in a tapered pipe will increase at the >expense of thermal energy. If this is the case, then the vortex can be >arranged to drive itself while it drops in temperature. Schauberger and all the others failed by following the thermodynamic paradigm. The tapered pipe is still using angular momentum. Same problem happens in trying to tap electromagnetic ZPE. Without the mass a gravity driven system has no power. And I do have evidence. Just take a trip to Sweden. :) David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 13:54:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12924; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:53:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:53:59 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925205359.30739.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.122] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower is just the basic form of this concept Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:53:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"AFFic1.0.o93.dPJxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30558 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis writes; >Why don't you give us a simple and reproducible with a detailled diagram of >a >working device that anyone can duplicate easily for checking your claim ? I >shall be very glad to build a successfull whirlpower device and publish the >test results in my wbe site, this will confirm to all that the whirlopower >effect is real and not only a concept... For some reason my reply did not come up on this. Very simple understandable drawings are at my website. The main thing is to make the best whirlpool possible as wide across as possible. The attempt is to tap the affect gravity has on the vortex making it wobble, and how that wobble affects the area surrounding the vortex, not the angular momentum of the vortex. That has been tried. A whirlpool has never been built and tested by science. David Dennard http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 14:32:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28779; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:30:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:30:04 -0700 From: Tgsleath aol.com Message-ID: <3dab9bb4.251e98d6 aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:29:58 EDT Subject: Re: Whirlpower Introduction To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"txf9I1.0.U17.SxJxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30559 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/24/99 10:50:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daviddennard hotmail.com writes: << Hi Trevor and all, >Here is my intro with full and extensve reference to the science >the relates to my theory. > >In my theory it is stated, "for flight look to the bird, for power look to >the hurricane". > Hi David, I looked at your some of your work posted on the web - even before subscribing to this group! While we cannot say anything for sure without testing, I would like to share my opinions. It is hard to make any progress in this area without at least sharing our gut feelings. I believe you have stated that: "By building an artificial whirlpool in a tank, a lake, or even the ocean, pumping the water from the drain to the event horizon in a feedback loop, the whirlpool can be used to supply power to the pumps and generate electricity. A preliminary mathematical model has predicted the whirlpool is 140% efficient. That means the whirlpool has 40% more power than is needed to drive the pumps. I think it is much higher but we will have to take a look at the figures to know for sure." I agree with the basic concept that the energy at the drain is probably more than enough to drive/feed the whirlpool at its periphery. But I believe that this is true by virtue of the thermal energy drop in the medium and not because of a net transfer of gravitational energy. I know from experience that even a small tornado is capable of causing an 8 deg drop in ambient temperature (and shower me with halestones) as it passes overhead. It appears to me that a tornado or vortex pulls at least some of its energy from the ambient thermal environment. So a whirlpool fed by ambient thermal energy does not seem impossible to me. Gravitational forces are used to create the vortex. But the gain in axial kinetic energy from gravitational potential energy on the way down the drain must be balanced by the kinetic energy given up as the fluid is raised back up to the top of the whirlpool. I do not believe there is a net transfer of energy from the gravitational field. You speak of pumps being used to maintain the feedback loop. I do not believe they are necessary. I believe the axial velocity at the drain will be more than enough to bring the fluid back up to the whirlpool periphery. This is because the axial velocity at the drain can be raised to any arbitrary level and depends only on the exit drain diameter. Blockage does not occur because of the ever-tightening rotational velocity of the vortex. So the story goes!!!! I took a look also at your Whirlpool Machine with paddles remote from the whirlpool axis. I do not believe you will get much power from this arrangement. Any power you do obtain will act to slow the rotational motion. This is not a good idea. In my opinion, it is better to pull useful power from the excess axial momentum in the feedback loop. I am interested to hear about your lucid dreaming activities. I have been lucid just a few times myself. It is a very fascinating experience. Are you in this world, or an astral world? It would appear to be an astral world if a tornado can turn into a speaking person. I am sure vortex machines must exist somewhere in time/space. Why not ask to see one? Best regards Trevor Sleath From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 14:57:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04599; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <00ca01bf07a8$e5287fc0$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: ZPE "Fluctuations" ? Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:54:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF076E.318D3D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cq3Zp2.0.g71.1KKxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30560 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF076E.318D3D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lest you may forget. http://www.bath.ac.uk/~chsacf/solartron/mathsp/html/func.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF076E.318D3D00 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Mathematics Refresher.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Mathematics Refresher.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.bath.ac.uk/~chsacf/solartron/mathsp/html/func.htm [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.bath.ac.uk/~chsacf/solartron/mathsp/html/func.htm Modified=E0EFA2ADA807BF018D ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF076E.318D3D00-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 14:57:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA05005; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:28 -0700 Message-ID: <19990925215627.64969.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.139] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Firmage Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:56:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"8KA141.0.7E1.CKKxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30561 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't know it you folks respect Joe or not but he seems to have the respct of many. His statements below back me up. We are verge of a pagadigm shift! Jeane has stated she will "champion" my cause if I get get a little more proof. Hal says he will "have something to announce to the world" if I am correct. Crockett took my work to Washington and is in constant touch. I don't see how anyone on this list cannot be curious at why science has never built and tested a whirlpool before. I would have thought that would have been one of the first places we looked for energy, not the last. Hawking recently wrote me and backed me up about my saying he said, anyone that says science understands the basic fundamentals is saying "garbage". Some bigshot oil guy in Texas complained about me to him. HA! The eyes of Texas are upon you. If any have a good comment to make, now is the time, and I'll send it down the line. David > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 8:38 PM >To: visionary bc.sympatico.ca >Subject: Firmage Hawking Dennard > >Hi Jeane, > >This is where it is at the moment! If I can get any of you folks together >and >get some taking going and say it is time for the paradigm shift to be >considered >and time for a whirlpool to be built, and tested by science. Mayby science >can >make up for lost time and get on to the truth, not science fiction. > >David > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 4:48 PM >To: wiseman eagle-research.com >Subject: Firmage Hawking Dennard > >Hi George, > >Your comments might not carry the impact of Hal's but I, who knows maybe >more?! > >I thought I would add your name to the list pretty high up due your saying >you >would mention my work some day soon in your newsletter. Thank you very >much for >your consideration. Your comments or the passage of this letter shows how >a >letter can be sent that could change the world ! (if everyone replies). >And if >my theory is right. Now it is at least "scientifically possible" since >these >words of Firmage actually shift the paradigm, IMO, even without my >comments. > >David > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 4:35 PM >To: halfox slkc.uswest.net >Subject: Firmage Hawking Dennard > >Hi Hal, > >If you took notice that would definately make a splash! :) > >Firmage saying our science, our big bang theory, is science fiction should >be >enough for anyone to look at new paradigm. > >I think saying a whirlpool needs to be built and tested scientifically is a >good >thing to say! :) And I am going to keep on saying it! > >David > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 4:24 PM >To: ParadigmRG aol.com >Subject: Firmage Hawking Dennard > >Hi Steve, > >You could prabably now only make it happen but ride the wave! :) > >David > > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 4:21 PM >To: gear2000 lightspeed.net >Subject: Firmage Hawking Dennard > >Hi David, > >If you think Whirlpower has a good chance at approval, now would be the >excellent time to say so. And say so kinda loud. :) > >David > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 4:07 PM >To: jeff.gordon wellnow.com >Subject: Firmage > >Hi Jeff, > >I am launching a direct connection to Firmage and Hawking. Both I am >already in >connection with! And more! If you want to ride the crest push this >letter! > >David > > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 11:22 AM >To: S.W.Hawking damtp.cam.ac.uk >Subject: Joe Firmage > >Hi Chris and Stephen, > >It is time for you folks to review and acknowledge my work. Don't get left >behind! :) > >David > > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:20:01 -0700 (PDT) >To: whirlpower egroups.com >Subject: [whirlpower] Firmage > >This and a hard copy are on the way to Joe Firmage! > >David > >------------ Forwarded Message begins here ------------ >From: "David Dennard" >Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 10:10 AM >To: inquiry isso.org >Subject: Re: Summer 1999 > >In message <199909180016.RAA25099 mailer.the-word-is-truth.org> Joe Firmage >writes: > > Hello friend, > > > New Observations of Cosmology at the Millennium > > > > There are, in fact, many reasons for people to consider looking at life >with > > an interesting new kind of optimistic wonder. In 1999, a remarkable >debate > > has begun to sweep into the view of the public. It is the discussion >among > > scientists over the accuracy of the Big Bang hypothesis of creation. > > > "I believe the observational evidence has become overwhelming, and the >Big > > Bang has in reality been toppled. There is now a need to communicate the >new > > observations, the connections between objects and the new insights into >the > > workings of the universe - all the primary obligations of academic >science," > > says Arp, a highly respected scientist whose observations are the >growing > > subject of intense debate. > >Hi Joe, > >I have thousands of pages of archived pages up in debate on this subject. >But >since I am not a "scientist" my words are mostly ignored although many have >agreed with me on many different lists and I even have endorsements from >"real" >scientists! > > > Other scientists strongly disagree with Arp's views, but there are >growing > > indications that he is right, and that one of the primary bases upon >which > > the Big Bang hypothesis is hinged - extra-galactic redshift primarily as >the > > measure of recessional velocity - is incorrect. > >And I have found even more basic fundamental errors that show the Universe >is >more likely Infinite. It has always been here and it will always be here. >Mathmatics understands the concept of Infinity I don't see why astrophysics >has >such a hard time understanding it. Asking how old an Infinite Universe is, >is >asking the wrong question and asking the wrong question gets the wrong >answer. >I think the Universe is edgeless and ageless. Our science is in affect >much >like our ancestor's science was affected thinking they saw the edge of the >world >or thinking the Sun went around the Earth. Things apparant on the surface >are >many times not what they are in reality. > > > Compelling observations have > > been repeated many times now demonstrating that mysterious objects known >as > > "quasars" are not in fact the most distant objects in the Universe, some >of > > which are alleged to be speeding away from us at several times the speed >of > > light. Instead, quasars appear to be ejecta from the nuclei of galaxies >much > > closer to us. High-redshift quasars have been observed to be physically > > connected to low-redshift galaxies. > > > > Arps observations go further. Like those of quasars, high redshifts >observed > > in the spectra of young galaxies appear to have a cause other than > > recessional motion. His work strongly suggests that quasars are, in >fact, > > young galaxies, given birth from parent galaxies. One can speculate that >the > > anomalous redshift effect might be caused as originating light interacts > > with vast clouds of electrons or ionized gas, like a kind of amniotic >plasma > > surrounding the evolving body. If exaggerated redshift in the spectra of > > young galaxies is not primarily caused by recessional motion, then it is > > quite plausible that, in general, galaxies are not flying away from us, >and > > "Big Bang" is unintentional science fiction. > >It is theory being taught as science. A very bad combination. And now so >ingrained in our culture to question is tatamount to heresy. Scientific >dogma >touted by "hot shot scientists" will destroy the world as we know it if we >don't >wake up soon! > > > These are stunning observations! They should startle every physicist, >giving > > us new reason to reconsider old assumptions. > >I have endorsements from scientists on a very simple concept that will, I >believe, supply us with clean and abundant energy. And I have proposed a >very >simple way to prove it! > > > Debate over a subject of this order tends to become exceptionally >heated, > > for the outcome tends to alter our understanding of ourselves. >Cosmological > > discussion tends to inflame the passions of every individual, and >rightly > > so, for we find our purpose in knowledge of our origin. Surely the >ontology > > of people should not be toyed with lightly. > >Tell me about it! :) I have been scorned and called every name in the >book for >questioning the all powerful big bang theory. And I have been doing it for >many >years long before the most recent data really shows it for what it is. >Bunk! > > > However, these and other observations are now making visible significant > > philosophical and observational flaws in one of the chief theories >defining > > the limits of human imagination. I presently favor the view that the > > Cosmology we're most likely to see emerge when the dust from this debate > > settles is impossible to anticipate with anything less than >philosophical > > wonder: the creation of matter is episodic in an infinite and eternal > > Cosmos. If true, this realization will ultimately humble every person, >and > > yet thrill us at the same time. > >So true. I am so humbled by the nature of the Infinite Universe I don't >have >words to express it. But I do have words to express the basic >fundamentals. >Ths most basic is that gravity repels light. > > In the process of absorbing the implications > > of this possibility, we might just gain important insights into the > > fundamental nature of atoms and energy as well, with all sorts of > > interesting new plausibilities coming into focus. The question of the > > ongoing cause of Cosmic microwave background radiation now becomes a > > fascinating issue to study more deeply, for example. So is the question >of > > the nature of inertia and gravitation. > >My theory is all about gravition. It is a new gravity paradigm! > > > As our collective consciousness begins to grapple with the concept and > > meaning of infinity, and as deficiencies in past physical assumptions > > present themselves, we must not rush to personalize or stigmatize the > > participants of any faction of the discussions (and I have been guilty >of > > this at times myself). All of us - whether our ideas are proven right or > > wrong - are essential participants in a process of knowledge perfection. >For > > all the revolutions in interpretation and model which we might face, we >know > > that the quest of physics represents a vital search for truths that > > contribute to meaning and destiny. Our knowledge of Nature is >increasingly > > refined as we experience more of the awe-inspiring beauty and perfection >of > > her bodies. And we have made true progress in this century, for our > > knowledge earned within foundation disciplines of science has given rise >to > > the modern world and has dramatically enhanced our ability to learn. The > > physicist can say with pride that, despite errors and large deficits and > > even basic gaps, this science has brought human beings closer than ever > > before to understanding the workings of that omnipresent and mysterious >root > > of being labeled "energy". Given recent insights, perhaps institutional > > science can also begin to consider other names and definitions given to > > "energy" by some within its own ranks, by mystics and by spiritual >leaders > > across the millennia. > >I am not a scientist. All my work has come to me in dreams. But I am not >accepted or a part of any religion. The so called religious and >spiritualists >have been at least as harsh with me as have the scientists. > > > In the midst of these happenings, a few fascinating people have this >summer > > started to organize a new science enterprise whose mission leaps for the > > stars. It is a pleasure to begin working with the associates of ISSO. We >do > > not agree on everything, but each of us holds a different version of the > > same vision: that the greatest ocean of all -- Cosmos -- will be >traveled by > > humans more freely in the 21st century. We hope that the genuine intent >of > > this effort can be recognized and supported. > > > > More importantly, we encourage all to pursue the quest. > > > > Very best, > > > > Joe Firmage > >Thank you for these words of Wisdom Joe Firmage. I hope you will follow >through >and help me in my quest for the truth. I offer a very easy way to find >out. I >am just a poor person and don't have the means to test my theory but it >will not >be very difficult if anyone will ever pay attention and do one simple >thing; > >"Build the whirlpool, that's all it takes" > >I have shouted it on many lists and thousands of archived pages. > >David Dennard >http://www.whirlpower.cc > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >250 FREE HOURS are waiting for you on AOL! >Try AOL *risk free* for 250 HOURS! >CLICK HERE http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/915 > > > >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/whirlpower >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > > > >------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > >Jeannette Clark - Artist - >655 Doyle Lane, Dixon, CA 95620 >(707) 678-0402 >email: jclark dcn.davis.ca.us >WWW Catalog: http://www.larkinam.com/quilt.Html > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 15:21:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16929; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:20:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:20:10 -0700 Message-ID: <012e01bf07a4$6652da00$375323cb -> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:17:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"rKq2R2.0.N84.PgKxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30562 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >How do you rarify ZPE "Vacuum" that has an estimated 1.0E98 joule/cm^3? >:-) > >Frederick Standing waves? Peter Nielsen From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 15:21:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA17124; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:20:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:20:15 -0700 Message-ID: <013101bf07a4$6913cec0$375323cb -> From: "Peter Nielsen" To: Subject: Re: Magnetic bubbles.... Nanobubbles Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:21:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"cSxRE2.0.SB4.VgKxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30563 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >One way to create magnetic bubbles in a material is to apply magnetic pulses >to the material. >Could it be that Sweet and Searl are generating magnetic bubbles and don't >know it? > What you say seems consistent. Sweet indicated his special treatment of the magnets involved placing them in the HV field of a modified TV. What properties would these pulses need to have, in terms of frequency and field stength? How would one demonstrate that the desired magnetic bubbles were indeed present? Peter Nielsen From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 15:46:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25190; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:44:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:44:17 -0700 Message-ID: <00f601bf07af$9892ec20$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <012e01bf07a4$6652da00$375323cb -> Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:42:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"mrW-72.0.S96.01Lxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30564 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Nielsen To: Sent: Saturday, September 25, 1999 3:17 PM Subject: Re: ZPE and Nanobubbles Peter wrote: > >How do you rarify ZPE "Vacuum" that has an estimated 1.0E98 joule/cm^3? > >:-) > > > >Frederick > > Standing waves? Standing or "stationary" waves, possibly. OTOH. String-Superstring theory treats "particles" as one-dimensional length-only "fluctuating" entities that can range from the "Planck Length" to infinity. These can be lines or circles undergoing simple harmonic fluctuations in length or diameter. Their one-dimensional characteristic (as we see them in our world) is due to some 6 to 10 dimensional space folding. Dynamic "wormholes"? Ask Lynn Kurtz. :-) Regards, Frederick > > Peter Nielsen From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 17:18:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA16408; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:18:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:18:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37ED6C6D.444F09BC servtech.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:44:29 -0400 From: Robert Gray X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic bubbles.... Nanobubbles References: <013101bf07a4$6913cec0$375323cb -> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AnYvr1.0.I04.xOMxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30565 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Peter Nielsen wrote: > >One way to create magnetic bubbles in a material is to apply magnetic > pulses > >to the material. > >Could it be that Sweet and Searl are generating magnetic bubbles and don't > >know it? > > > > What you say seems consistent. Sweet indicated his special treatment of the > magnets involved placing them in the HV field of a modified TV. > > What properties would these pulses need to have, in terms of frequency and > field stength? > > How would one demonstrate that the desired magnetic bubbles were indeed > present? > > Peter Nielsen Magnetic bubbles are created in several different ways.... The way which might be relevant to what Sweet and/or Searl were doing is as follows. An "unmagnetized" material consists of magnetic domain strips. About half the strips have a magnetization direction "up" while the result have a magnetization direction "down". So there is (approximately) no net overall magnetization direction. As you subject the sample to a DC magnetic field, the "up" strips, for example, will become narrower and narrower as the applied field is set to increasing strength. The "down" strips will get wider and wider. Now, the "up" strips do not get narrower at the same rate all along its branches. Some places get narrower quicker than other places. If you now apply a pulse to the material, the places where the "up" strips are very narrow, will "pinch" together, leaving cylinder regions of "up" magnetization. These are the "bubbles". In some papers I've read, repeated pulses create more bubbles n the material. And repeated pulses also can change the way the magnetization vector gets twisted up around the bubble's wall. This can create hard magnetic bubbles. Different materials require different magnetic field strengths... Some papers used thousands of pulses with a DC bias field (to narrow the magnetic strips). Here is some interesting info... If you cool the material, it is easier to create hard magnetic bubbles. "Warm" material inhibits hard magnetic bubble formation. Did Sweet or Searl cool their magnets? I think so. NOTE: The papers and books I read used crystals and garnets in their experimentation. I can't find any referene to magnetic bubble generation in "bulk" polycrystal magnetic material.... So I don't know how relevant this is to bulk material. Bob Gray From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 22:28:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA03642; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:26:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:26:59 -0700 Message-ID: <19990926052658.72919.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.156] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower Introduction Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:26:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"lrDnH2.0.qu.ZwQxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30566 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Trevor writes: >I looked at your some of your work posted on the web - even before >subscribing to this group! While we cannot say anything for sure without >testing, I would like to share my opinions. It is hard to make any >progress >in this area without at least sharing our gut feelings. And I appreciate your saying this. My only quest is for the truth. I have poured out my feelings on the subject only to be slapped in the face at almost every turn or ignored. Many write of some conspracy to stop new energy by some highly evolved intelligence. I see the exact opposite. I see a conspiracy of ignorance by the ones that should be the most interested in new energy. I believe you have >stated that: > >"By building an artificial whirlpool in a tank, a lake, or even the ocean, >pumping the water from the drain to the event horizon in a feedback loop, >the >whirlpool can be used to supply power to the pumps and generate >electricity. >A preliminary mathematical model has predicted the whirlpool is 140% >efficient. That means the whirlpool has 40% more power than is needed to >drive the pumps. I think it is much higher but we will have to take a look >at >the figures to know for sure." > >I agree with the basic concept that the energy at the drain is probably >more >than enough to drive/feed the whirlpool at its periphery. Then you don't understand my theory. I do not state there is any energy at the drain. In fact if any restricon is placen the vortex feegback loop it will "snuff out" the power much like suffing out a flame. >Gravitational forces are used to create the vortex. But the gain in axial >kinetic energy from gravitational potential energy on the way down the >drain >must be balanced by the kinetic energy given up as the fluid is raised back >up to the top of the whirlpool. I do not believe there is a net transfer >of >energy from the gravitational field. Again you are not seeing my point. My theory is not about the vortex itself or the way gravity pulls water down the drain, but the way gravity affects the vortex causing it to wobble and how that wobble drags the area around the vortex. > >You speak of pumps being used to maintain the feedback loop. I do not >believe they are necessary. I believe the axial velocity at the drain will >be more than enough to bring the fluid back up to the whirlpool periphery. >This is because the axial velocity at the drain can be raised to any >arbitrary level and depends only on the exit drain diameter. I doubt this very much but I don't think it will take very much power to accomplish the feeback loop. Others have tried the velocity approach but that just decreases the wobble much like spinning a top very fast decreases the wobble. Blockage does >not occur because of the ever-tightening rotational velocity of the vortex. >So the story goes!!!! But there is no energy in the vortex itself, IMO. >I took a look also at your Whirlpool Machine with paddles remote from the >whirlpool axis. I do not believe you will get much power from this >arrangement. Any power you do obtain will act to slow the rotational >motion. > This is not a good idea. In my opinion, it is better to pull useful >power >from the excess axial momentum in the feedback loop. That will collapse the vortex. My "big wheel" with paddles does not enter the vortex/feedback loop system. Schauerger"s attempt was similar but he did not try a whirlpool with the "compound vortex", just a simple tonado type, "multiplied input" vortex. He kept trying to increase the velocity of the vortex thinking the power was in the "chaotic nature" of the vortex itself. > >I am interested to hear about your lucid dreaming activities. I have been >lucid just a few times myself. It is a very fascinating experience. Are >you >in this world, or an astral world? It would appear to be an astral world >if >a tornado can turn into a speaking person. I am sure vortex machines must >exist somewhere in time/space. Why not ask to see one? I have seen one! 300 feet across! I think we could build them large in the lakes at our existing hydro facilies and have an abundance of clean energy, but best of all people could build their own Whirlpower generator and water cleaner and we could disperse our densely populated areas away from the grid. I don't want too off topic too far with my lucid dreaming stories but I got a million of them. :) If you try your concept I wish you the best. Dan Winter has a similar concept and has had no success with his "ultimate nozzle". Maybe you can get some insight from him on that approach. I don't think it will work but it is worth looking into, but it seems to me a whirlpool needs to be built and tested because it has the same pattern nature shows us and that pattern is said by science to be "most mysterious". Good intelligent, (not ignorant), comments. Much respect, David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 23:13:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12757; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:12:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:12:56 -0700 Message-ID: <19990926061255.37771.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.12] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower is just the basic form of this concept Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:12:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"re4Ua3.0.F73.ebRxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30567 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis writes: >Why don't you give us a simple and reproducible with a detailled diagram of >a >working device that anyone can duplicate easily for checking your claim ? I >shall be very glad to build a successfull whirlpower device and publish the >test results in my wbe site, this will confirm to all that the whirlopower >effect is real and not only a concept... Thank you Jean-Louis! I wrote a reply to this and it never came up, or something? You can see simple drawings of the concept at my website and I will be more that glad to help you build in any way I can, or anyone! I have found a test of principle model of the action I describe in Sweden. As far as I can tell, my new energy theory is the only one that offers full disclosure and is not some attempt to try and scam money from people by scientists that offer no real machine to test! As my posts have stated so far my approach to this is new and unique and relates to the wobble, the wiggle, the jiggle, of the vortex due to the way gravity affects the vortex. I greatly apprecite your offer build. I don't think it will cost you very much and I ask no money for myself. Just announce your findings. Try and build it as big as you can and don't try to make a large vortex; make a large whirlpool. It will be much wider than deep, probably even wider than my drawings show. Thank you, David Dennard "on the threshold of a dream" http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Sep 25 23:30:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA17782; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:29:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:29:37 -0700 From: JNaudin509 aol.com Message-ID: <548b4424.251f174c aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 02:29:32 EDT Subject: Re: Whirlpower is just the basic form of this concept To: vortex-l eskimo.com CC: daviddennard hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 166 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id XAA17761 Resent-Message-ID: <"IogpD2.0.hL4.HrRxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30568 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier daté du 25/09/99 22:54:46é), daviddennard hotmail.com a écrit : > Very simple understandable drawings are at my website. The main thing is to > make the best whirlpool possible as wide across as possible. The attempt is > > to tap the affect gravity has on the vortex making it wobble, and how that > wobble affects the area surrounding the vortex, not the angular momentum of > > the vortex. That has been tried. > > A whirlpool has never been built and tested by science > >David Dennard Dear David, Thanks for your answer, I shall be glad to see a kind of blueprint, I think that the size of the device, a precise diagram of the shape, the spining speed and the viscosity of the fluid used has a major role for a successful test of your device. Best Regards, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: Jnaudin509 aol.com Overunity Web site: http://members.aol.com/jnaudin509/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 00:59:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA29597; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:55:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: <19990926075528.97302.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.125] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower is just the basic form of this concept Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:55:26 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"m-v5W3.0.NE7.l5Txt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30569 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jean-Louis writes: >Thanks for your answer, I shall be glad to see a kind of blueprint, I think >that the size of the device, a precise diagram of the shape, the spining >speed and the viscosity of the fluid used has a major role for a successful >test of your device. A blueprint would hard for me to come up with a this point but I am sure any blueprint maker could look at my drawings and make one. School children have written to me and say they understand exactly what Whirlpower is about. It is very simple. Like Kaku says, "our passage from a 0 to a 1 civilization is probably about something so simple it is just no one ever thought about it before". Spinning speed should be low. High velocity will only dampen the wobble. Liquid mercury would probably work best but a way, way, over complicated and toxic solution. If fact air will work too but will not be as powerful and since water cleaners are needed in most situations water is best in my opinion. I think the major thing thing needed for the succesfull test of my devise is to build it and see what happens. At the very least a scientist would be able to offer the first data on the whirlpool and get published in some journal. At the very best we will a new clean abundant suppy of energy. What more could any scientist ask for. It is within your grasp, inspired by my dream to be given freely to all. To Bill B, Great sermon!. I would send in a few bucks if I had any to send and will one day, I hope. And I urge everyone on this list do so if they can. Bill has spoken to me with a respectful tone even long before I came to this list. I hope now you will now also help and add my work to you website. And I hope all that want will do the same. David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 01:07:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA00498; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 01:06:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 01:06:11 -0700 From: Tgsleath aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:06:07 EDT Subject: Re: Whirlpower Introduction To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"KwCq22.0.i7.pFTxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30570 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/25/99 10:28:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daviddennard hotmail.com writes: << Again you are not seeing my point. My theory is not about the vortex itself or the way gravity pulls water down the drain, but the way gravity affects the vortex causing it to wobble and how that wobble drags the area around the vortex. >> I guess you are talking about harnessing the precessional motion of a whirlpool about its vertical axis. This is a new idea for me. But classical gyroscopic theory says there is no 'free lunch'. The precessional motion is caused by a overturning moment applied at right angles to the spin axis. This overturning moment could arise from instabilities in the fluid / vortex shape. Any attempt to harness the precession will simply stabilize the vortex. On the other hand Prof Laithwaite and others have reported some abnormal (supposedly reactionless) behavior in gyroscopes. Gyroscopic/precessional action may not be fully understood. So perhaps you have something worth persueing here. Thanks for sharing your ideas. Trevor Sleath From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 03:45:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA31688; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 03:44:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 03:44:34 -0700 Message-ID: <015101bf0814$382ffb60$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:41:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"ulSyd3.0.2l7.HaVxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30571 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those Vortexians with a flare for Microbiology: 1, Corn Starch, C6H10O5(aq) ~60 deg C (gelatinization). 2, C6H10O5 + Amylase Enzyme + H2O ---> Glucose (C6H12O6) 3, C6H12O6 (Glucose) + "Yeast" ----> Booze, Acetone, or H2, + CO2 At 100 bushels of corn/acre-year you can fuel a medium-sized car with an I.C. engine or fuel cell for about 10,000 miles,or more. Or with thermochemistry: C6H12O6 + 6 H2O ---> 6 CO2 + 12 H2 The thought of "Gassing Up" on corn starch pudding and water does have a certain appeal, doesn't it? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 09:11:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06284; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:09:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:09:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:14:03 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: Dennard, many cuts... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WLBKX3.0.2Y1.-Kaxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30572 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How does gravity either repel or attract light? How does this work with destroying the world as we know it. >From: "David Dennard" >To: jeff.gordon wellnow.com >To: S.W.Hawking damtp.cam.ac.uk >From: "David Dennard" >To: inquiry isso.org High-redshift quasars have been observed to be physically connected to low-redshift galaxies. "Big Bang" is unintentional science fiction. It is theory being taught as science. A very bad combination. And now so ingrained in our culture to question is tatamount to heresy. Scientific dogma touted by "hot shot scientists" will destroy the world as we know it if we don't wake up soon! I have been scorned and called every name in the book for questioning the all powerful big bang theory. And I have been doing it for many years long before the most recent data really shows it for what it is. Bunk! the creation of matter is episodic in an infinite and eternal Cosmos. If true, this realization will ultimately humble every person, and yet thrill us at the same time. So true. I am so humbled by the nature of the Infinite Universe I don't have words to express it. But I do have words to express the basic fundamentals. Ths most basic is that gravity repels light. In the process of absorbing the implications of this possibility, we might just gain important insights into the fundamental nature of atoms and energy as well, with all sorts of interesting new plausibilities coming into focus. The question of the ongoing cause of Cosmic microwave background radiation now becomes a fascinating issue to study more deeply, for example. So is the question of the nature of inertia and gravitation. My theory is all about gravition. It is a new gravity paradigm! As our collective consciousness begins to grapple with the concept and meaning of infinity, and as deficiencies in past physical assumptions present themselves, we must not rush to personalize or stigmatize the religion. The so called religious and spiritualists >have been at least as harsh with me as have the scientists. In the midst of these happenings, a few fascinating people have this >summer started to organize a new science enterprise whose mission leaps for the stars. Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > >Jeannette Clark - Artist - >655 Doyle Lane, Dixon, CA 95620 >(707) 678-0402 >email: jclark dcn.davis.ca.us >WWW Catalog: http://www.larkinam.com/quilt.Html > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 13:00:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA04218; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:59:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:59:06 -0700 Message-ID: <016301bf0861$aee5aa00$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater, ZPE Calculations Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:55:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"04Vgv.0.m11.9idxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30573 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Casimir Force, F = (Pi)*h*c* Area/(480*d^4) With the Stern Layer equal to the Ionic Radius, d ~= 1.5E-8 cm: Force ~= 4.0E4 dynes Pressure, P = Force/Area = 4.0E4 dynes/cm^2 Acoustic Energy or Intensity, I = P^2/(2*density*sound velocity) For water, density = 1.0 gram/cm^3, Sound velocity = 1.46E5 cm/sec Thus I ~= 5.47E-3 watts/cm^2 times 52 cm^2 = 0.284 watts or 0.284 joule/sec times 240 sec = 68.2 watts, OU for 188 watts input for 240 seconds? The Field Strength in volts/cm for an EM or ZPE wave = E^2/377 Fluctuations causing opening-collapse oscillations of the water-metal interface: Thus, 5.47E-3 = E^2/377: E = (5.47E-3*377)^1/2 = 1.42 volts/cm Can this be??? Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 13:08:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08348; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:08:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:08:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: George Wiseman cc: vortex-L , Jerry Decker , Eric Krieg Subject: Re: Dennis Lee tour testing In-Reply-To: <199909261852.LAA15645 ns2.vphos.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"FsCyN.0.I22.eqdxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30574 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, George Wiseman wrote: > fifteen (15) times over-unity on Dennis Lee's current tour is actually > not over-unity at all. George, mind if I put this message on my site next to the "dennis Lee" link? (If you prefer, put your message on your own site, and I'll link to it.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 13:22:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA12097; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:21:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:21:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990926162543.00a1f8a0 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:25:43 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Re: Corn Fed Hydrogen-Powered Cars In-Reply-To: <015101bf0814$382ffb60$d38e1d26 fjsparber> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"l8ZdW.0.xy2.B1ext" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30575 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:41 AM 09/26/99 -0700, Fred wrote: > >The thought of "Gassing Up" on corn starch pudding and water does have >a certain appeal, doesn't it? :-) More than a certain appeal. Daimler-Chrysler's fuel cell car would love it. Colin. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 16:51:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA01003; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:49:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:49:22 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <8d096aad.25200afe aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:49:18 EDT Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"c01ZF3.0.bF.24hxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30576 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Bill, Thanks for posting the news of Rod Driver's articles about the levitating magnet. It sounds like a great toy, and the Harrigan/Hones saga also has something to say about inventor's disease, patent law, the relationship between mathematics and physics, the lure of fame, and the lasting power of childhood dreams. After reading Driver's two stories in THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL, I wouldn't be all that hard on Bill Hones and his father. They should have given Harrigan some credit and perhaps money, too, but judging by the articles, the levitron would never have gone beyond Harrigan's isolated dwelling in Vermont without Bill Hones. The changes that Bill and Ed Hones made to Harrigan's invention may not have been so minor from the point of view of developing a toy that the average layman could get to work. Driver reported that the videotape of Hones' visit to Harrigan showed that it took Hones a long time to get Harrigan's version to work, even with Harrigan's guidance. Driver wrote that it wasn't a trivial matter to get the Hones toy to work either: "The toy comes with a set of brass and plastic washers to adjust the weight of the spinning magnet. The weight must be experimentally adjusted to within one-tenth of a gram -- less than the weight of a single postage stamp. Also, the base magnet must be carefully leveled. The top will not levitate unless the weight is right, and you cannot be sure the weight is right until the top levitates. Moreover, you cannot even begin to adjust the weight and leveling until you have learned how to spin the magnetic top while fighting the strong resisting force of the base magnet." Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 17:25:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA14811; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:24:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:24:53 -0700 Message-ID: <01a801bf0886$cfcb24a0$d38e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Fw: US 3,874,116 Robert J. White, Chevron Research Labs Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:22:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"BakPf3.0.qc3.Kbhxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30577 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > My mistake, page 5 of patent 3,874,116 (April 27, 1973)shows: > > C6H12O5 (18 lbs) + 6 H2O (10.8 lbs) ---> 6 CO2 (26.4 lbs)+ 12 H2 (2.4 > Lbs) > giving the Hydrogen btu equivalent of about 1.2 gal of gasoline,can go at > room temperature and up. > > This what shot me down when I started to go for a patent in June of 1974. > > Strangely enough K2CO3 (potassium carbonate) that works for > the CF?OU effects,which can be leached from wood ashes makes the best > catalyst for this reaction. :-) > Fred > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 18:01:00 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA28498; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:59:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:59:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:04:25 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device In-Reply-To: <8d096aad.25200afe aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Gy1jC.0.8z6.F6ixt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30578 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A couple of points. 1] Opinion: Harrigan deserves some of the proceeds. 2] It is EASY to run the toy with some practice, without practice you can buy a battery operated "spinner" to help you. Over priced in my opinion, but works. JHS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Sep 26 23:35:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA27010; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:34:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:34:10 -0700 Message-ID: <19990927063409.18857.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.163] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dennard, many cuts... Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:34:05 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"JVeof1.0.yb6.X_mxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30579 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John writes > How does gravity either repel or attract light? > How does this work with destroying the world as we know it. Hi John, I don't know the purpose for your putting my and Firmage's words together. For those who don't know, Jeannette is letting me use her computer and her address got put on the post by mistake. But if want to call or write you are welcome. To your questions, as to the world coming to an end, the world is always coming to an end and beginning and changing every day. I can't say I really understand your question, and probably would be a better question on a list about spirital matters not science matters. We have enough science fiction in science as it is. Theory should always be presented as such and not confused with real science. I believe if science followed that simple idea we would have reached the paradigm shift decades ago. And theory should always be presented with something to measure and test, not be made up numbers about the made up numbers of another unproven theory. As to how does gravity affects light, first one must have a clear view of the relative densities involved. Just like with evaporation, gravity balances the scales of densities. If you have not read my theory I give a full explaination of "solvation", the action that moves the excited H20 molecule. I think this same action moves light through space. I don't think light is moving itself. I offer a simple test to prove or disprove. It is similar to the interferometer test but simpler and should show proof that gravity repels light. It is in my theory. This test and the test on a whirlpool will prove or disprove my theory. I am glad to see some progress over the past year and I hope this list will start show the kind of interest it will take to attract those who can make a difference, who are interested in scientific tests, and those who not steeped in the science fiction dogma that plagues our science and our world. David > > >From: "David Dennard" > >To: jeff.gordon wellnow.com > >To: S.W.Hawking damtp.cam.ac.uk > >From: "David Dennard" > >To: inquiry isso.org > >High-redshift quasars have been observed to be physically > connected to low-redshift galaxies. > > "Big Bang" is unintentional science fiction. > >It is theory being taught as science. A very bad combination. And now so >ingrained in our culture to question is tatamount to heresy. Scientific >dogma touted by "hot shot scientists" will destroy the world as we know it >if we don't wake up soon! > > I have been scorned and called every name in the book for >questioning the all powerful big bang theory. And I have been doing it >for many years long before the most recent data really shows it for what >it is. Bunk! the creation of matter is episodic in an infinite and eternal > Cosmos. If true, this realization will ultimately humble every person, >and yet thrill us at the same time. So true. I am so humbled by >the nature of the Infinite Universe I don't have words to express it. >But I do have words to express the basic fundamentals. > > Ths most basic is that gravity repels light. In the process of >absorbing the implications of this possibility, we might just gain >important insights into the fundamental nature of atoms and energy as >well, with all sorts of interesting new plausibilities coming into >focus. The question of the ongoing cause of Cosmic microwave >background radiation now becomes a fascinating issue to study more >deeply, for example. So is the question of the nature of inertia and >gravitation. My theory is all about gravition. It is a new gravity >paradigm! As our collective consciousness begins to grapple with >the concept and meaning of infinity, and as deficiencies in past >physical assumptions present themselves, we must not rush to >personalize or stigmatize the religion. The so called religious and >spiritualists >have been at least as harsh with me as have the >scientists. In the midst of these happenings, a few fascinating >people have this >summer started to organize a new science enterprise >whose mission leaps for the stars. > >Forwarded Message ends here ------------ > >Jeannette Clark - Artist - > >655 Doyle Lane, Dixon, CA 95620 >(707) 678-0402 >email: >jclark dcn.davis.ca.us >WWW Catalog: http://www.larkinam.com/quilt.Html > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 00:42:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA11446; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:41:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:41:51 -0700 Message-ID: <19990927074150.34426.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.155] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower Introduction Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:41:48 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"l9hfl3.0.mo2.--nxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30580 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Trevor writes: >I guess you are talking about harnessing the precessional motion of a >whirlpool about its vertical axis. This is a new idea for me. But >classical >gyroscopic theory says there is no 'free lunch'. The Swedish scientists say it is a new idea too! The "free lunch" statement is part of the science fiction dogma holding us back, and completely misrepresents the forces involved. True, if you latch on to the precession of a gyro it will "snuff out" the wobble. Kinda like throwing a wet blanket on a fire. But if the approach is correct and the precession is not directly touched the energy can be harnessed, if my theory is correct. And holding a blanket the right distance from a fire will dry it out very well. :) And I want to emphasise, "if my theory is correct". Only scientific test should ever be considered proof of theory, mine included! WE have to get past this science fiction delusion we are under promoted by hot shot scientists with fancy degrees and ego's to match that think they know it all and the squash little people who have the real ideas, the "real dreams" that can make a differance! >On the other hand Prof Laithwaite and others have reported some abnormal >(supposedly reactionless) behavior in gyroscopes. Gyroscopic/precessional >action may not be fully understood. So perhaps you have something worth >persueing here. I think so. The vortex experts at "Viktor Schaubergers's Vortex World" in Sweden think so, dozens of people over the past few years on many lists think so. And the children that write think so. "Out of the mouths of babes"! > >Thanks for sharing your ideas. > >Trevor Sleath > And that thank you Trevor. You are another in a recent series of people starting to see the possibility. I hope more will begin to see it too. :) It is so simple. Hidden in simplicity. David Dennard "still, the hardest working man in dreamland" http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 06:17:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA09712; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:15:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:15:29 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01bf08f2$76899860$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Zeta Potential Reversal with Th(NO3)4 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:12:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"qDHG13.0.eN2.ntsxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30581 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FWIW, The Zeta Potential of Th(NO3)4 is minus150 millivolts at 1.0E-4 millimoles/liter, decreasing to 0.0 millivlts at 3.0E-3 millimoles/liter, then increases to plus 150 millivolts at 0.1 millimoles/liter then doglegs back toward 0.0 millivolts at concentrations of 0.1 to > 10.0 millimoles/liter. Small wonder that OU/LENR with the CETI Beads is hard to replicate. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 06:29:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA14789; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:28:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:28:28 -0700 Message-ID: <003001bf08f4$47f8e6c0$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Electrostatic Charge Generation in Hydrocarbon Liquids Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:25:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF08B9.7F0577E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"EggyG3.0.xc3.y3txt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30582 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF08B9.7F0577E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For Your Info, Tom Stolper. FJS http://www.gri.org/cgi-bin/re?url=http%3A//www.gri.org/pub/abstracts/gri80_0 001.html ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF08B9.7F0577E0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Gas Research Institute.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Gas Research Institute.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.gri.org/cgi-bin/re?url=3Dhttp%3A//www.gri.org/pub/ab= stracts/gri80_0001.html [DOC#3#4] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.gri.org/top.html [DOC#3#5#6] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.gri.org/cgi-bin/nav/nav.pl?clear=3Dyes [DOC#3#5#7] BASEURL=3Dhttp://www.gri.org/pub/abstracts/gri80_0001.html [InternetShortcut] URL=3Dhttp://www.gri.org/cgi-bin/re?url=3Dhttp%3A//www.gri.org/pub/abstra= cts/gri80_0001.html Modified=3DC0E2C8E0F308BF0105 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF08B9.7F0577E0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 07:08:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA04868; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:06:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:06:55 -0700 Message-ID: <004901bf08f9$a5e52500$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Summary of Electrochemical Theory Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:04:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF08BE.E65805C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"08UnF2.0.-B1.-dtxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30583 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF08BE.E65805C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those Brits sure do good Chemistry. :-) FJS http://www.cp.umist.ac.uk/lecturenotes/Echem/Electricityfile.html ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF08BE.E65805C0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Summary of Electrochemical Theory.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Summary of Electrochemical Theory.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.cp.umist.ac.uk/lecturenotes/Echem/Electricityfile.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.cp.umist.ac.uk/lecturenotes/Echem/Electricityfile.html Modified=405D4C67F908BF0111 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF08BE.E65805C0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 07:15:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA11956; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:13:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:13:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:13:44 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: tap-l listproc.appstate.edu cc: list physics teaching Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device In-Reply-To: <199909271326.JAA02634 vega.brown.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lAnkL.0.Iw2.Tktxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30584 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Gerald Zani wrote: > Bill, Tappers, > > The projo about the Levitron article is very good. I have it posted on my > bulletin board. If you try to go to the web sites that Bill pointed to you > will have trouble. So I copied the articles and posted them at: The author just contacted me to say that Projo takes articles off after one week. He gives permission to put it on WWW, so it now can be found at: http://www.amasci.com/maglev/levtr1.html I've also added an old letter to the Sherloks (the ones who maintained the evidence of the theft on levitron.com until Hone's got the courts to shut them down.) http://www.amasci.com/maglev/levbill1.html (also below.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L THE "PATHOLOGICAL DISHONESTY" DISEASE To the Sherloks In reading the lastest LEVITRON "Expose" update on www.levitron.com, I suddenly realized that something seemed extremely familiar about the whole situation. About five years ago I went through the breakup of a small company. See if the following story strikes any chords with you. During some financial rough times, one partner in our little design company attacked another, and threatened to quit if the second partner was not ejected. As discussion ensued and threats and counterthreats were made over the following weeks, very strange things started to happen. As the group continued to discuss ongoing events, I started to feel as if there was something wrong with my mind, because some of the events that the group was discussing had never occurred. Other events that the people discussed were totally different than I remembered them. I began questioning peoples' memory during meetings, and I found that the rest of the group maintained a solid concensus agreement about several past events which were very different than my own recollections. Also, several real events which I remembered quite clearly were denied by the group as having never occurred. Fortunately I spent enough time away from the group that I could maintain a small amount of perspective, and I gave a great deal of thought to these strange memory mismatches. At first I suspected that this was the infamous "Rashomon" effect (from the Kurosawa movie where an identical event is shown from the perspective of several different people.) Some of the problem did come from this; from the fact that different people emphasize some events while forgetting others. However, I began to notice that something else was happening. Two of the partners were lying. They were lying quite openly, and about all sorts of minor things. The lies were small enough that I never would have noticed them ordinarily. To see them I had to be intentionally looking for them. As they discussed things over time, their stories slowly changed in obvious ways, and always so as to make themselves appear to be the "good guys," and so their opponents appeared to be evil. Long friendships were conveniently misremembered as hostile rivalry, and some recent major changes in attitudes were discussed as if they had always been the norm. The business partners were "rewriting history" as they desired, with little regard for truth. And strangest of all, they obviously were not doing this intentionally. The process took the form of a constant sort of "negative gossip", where the gossip was somewhat nasty, and over many days they would come to believe their own speculations as being actual events. The "solidified gossip" was then extended with even more subtly dishonest information, so the "warping of reality" built up more and more over time. I found that the overall effect was very hard to fight, and on several occasions I felt weird and confused, and had to sit down and try to sort out my original viewpoint from the subtly twisted viewpoints I had unknowingly taken on while working in the group. When I confronted them about some of the differences in our memories of ongoing (not past) events, they invariably attacked MY perception of events as being faulty. They usually added lots of emphasis on the fact that I had no proof that my version was right and theirs was wrong, and put much emphasis on the idea that all of reality is just a matter of opinion. (But although truth may be subjective, one thing in reality is real: intentional lying!) They had no self-doubts at all, and their defenses were impenetrable, which I found to be extremely unsettling. And so I started keeping written records of all the ongoing events, and began making tape recordings of company meetings. I did not trust my OWN memories, so I came to rely upon these records whenever arguments about the facts of the case came up. The whole upheaval took months. Time after time I found great mismatches in what the group believed and what had actually happened. Sometimes the partners would completely change their stories, and then insist that their stories had always been that way. They would accuse others of nasty acts that THEY THEMSELVES had actually performed. I kept exposing the differences and trying to force the group to keep honest contact with reality as best as I could, but they absolutely hated my "disgusting" truth telling and tape recorders, and it was a losing battle. I eventually got out of the whole toxic situation. After years had passed and I gained lots more perspective, I could clearly see the operation of a stunning human foible which I had never encountered earlier in my life: some people maintain a positive self-image by a habit of lying to themselves. The lies are small but constant, and their cumulative effect allows that person to carry out some fairly nasty and spiteful acts without knowning that they are doing so. They they either forget about them entirely, or they put a "spin" on them so they appear correct and righteous. "Convenient Disremembering" rules their lives. They constantly rewrite history to make themselves look good, and they view themselves as good people, even though their actions are very different from those of a good person. When someone should confront them with clear evidence of the original version of events, or if someone even *questions* their version, they burst out in rage. They deeply hate tape recorders and camcorders, but they are unable to give a coherent reason why this is so. (The reason is obvious, but they don't know that!) Overall, the dishonest reality-warp phenomenon is a very scary thing to be near. I see that it is the main force that produces Cult-think. I can easily see how the Nazis could kill millions of civilians during WWII, and the German people go along with it, all the while thinking that they were in the right. I can see how abusive parents can beat children to death, all the while believing that it's the child's fault. It's simply a matter of being slightly but constantly dishonest, of bad-mouthing the truth so that it vanishes, of coming up with warped justifications for your actions, and then learning to be blind to the warpings. It's simply a matter of telling small lies and then believing them, so that they turn invisible, and can form a new level of "truth" on which more subtle lies are again added, until your system of beliefs slowly twists into something that would shock an outside observer. What's all this leading to? It looks to me like Hones has this "lying disease". If so, then he is not consciously stealing Harrigan's work. He may REALLY BELIEVE that he is in the right, and so he explains your attack as being motivated by your jealousy, self-righteousness, evil, etc. (But why would a fellow Levitron-seller abandon a good business and start exposing Hones' misdeeds? How can he explain it?) He is unable to see his actions in anything but a good (but false) light. If he is indulging in this "reality warping" stuff, then whenever you defeat some part of his case, he will not back down, because for him history conveniently changes so that the defeat never occurred. This makes him a formidable opponent because he might never surrender. Also, he can tell enormous lies with a clear conscience, and people will believe his side of the story without a second thought, since his attitude and body-language is that of a truth teller. My advice on how to fight this stuff matches what you are already doing: be utterly honest, and expose both YOUR OWN actions and Hones' actions to as much publicity as possible. Assume that Hones is slightly dangerous: he is fighting to defend his image of himself as a good person, and consequentially you threaten him at a very deep level. He may talk himself into seeing a need to commit acts of violence. In addition, people with the "lie disease" are extremely vengeful. They will remember even small personal slights for the rest of their lives. On the positive side: from what I've seen of the legal world, the people there are aware of these "snake" types of personality, and probably won't be easily taken in by Hones as are the people surrounding him. Well, best of luck in the battle. If you want to look up an interesting book, track down Scott M. Peck's book "THE PEOPLE OF THE LIE," ISBN:0684848597 It's by a psychologist who noticed that a portion of his patients shared a certain trait: extreme self-protective and self-centered dishonesty; what the outside world labels as "evil." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 07:35:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA22613; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:33:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:33:44 -0700 Message-ID: <005e01bf08fd$65630700$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Brownian Motion Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:31:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF08C2.A26D1A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"YIRiw2.0.FX5.71uxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30585 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF08C2.A26D1A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brownian Motion Back Home=20 Brownian Motion=20 by Phillip Dukes=20 =20 A large particle in a sea of small, invisible particles colliding with = it. To make the small particles visible press the space-bar.=20 (You first may have to click twice on the applet.)=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF08C2.A26D1A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brownian Motion
 
Back = Home=20
Brownian = Motion=20
by Phillip Dukes


A large particle in a sea of=20 small, invisible particles colliding with it. To make the small = particles=20 visible press the space-bar.
(You first may have to click twice on = the=20 applet.)

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF08C2.A26D1A40-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 07:41:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA26763; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:40:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:40:22 -0700 Message-ID: <006a01bf08fe$537d4fe0$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Brownian Motion & ZPE Fluctuations? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:37:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"eFogT2.0.5Y6.M7uxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30586 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can Brownian Motion be detected with nanoparticles in Liquid He near absolute Zero? How do you detect it without making it happen? :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 10:22:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA29352; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:18:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:18:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:18:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: David Jonsson Reply-To: David Jonsson To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: JNaudin509 aol.com Subject: B-2 miracle explained In-Reply-To: <199909222056.QAA22033 fh105.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"h5Mzx3.0.XA7.tRwxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30587 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I just got a brilliant idea. Maybe the miracle behind the B-2 stealth bomber is electric induction and Lenz law. This is the only way I can explain the high speed B-2 is said to be able to achieve. A high speed electric dipole like B-2 will be experienced by the surrounding air as a magnet. I suppose air is diamagnetic so it will be repulsed. The air surrounding the plane will thus be gradually accelerated by the approaching magnetic field and there will be no sonic boom and the airdrag will also be reduced. It is necessarry to explain air drag and sonic boom. "Electrogravitics" alone can not eliminate these constrains. David David Jonsson Phone +46-18-24 51 52 Fax +46-18-24 51 56 GSM +46-706-339487 E-mail david bahnhof.se Uppsala, Sweden Web: http://bahnhof.se/~david/ Postgiro 499 40 54-7 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 10:35:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04259; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:28:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:28:16 -0700 Message-ID: <19990927172813.32449.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.156] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re-Whirlpower Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:28:10 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"cqf2H3.0.P21.mawxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30588 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Jim wrote; > >>The four pole AC motor invented by N. Tesla will produce a rotating >>magnetic field analogous to the "whirl" force of a whirlpool. If you >>remove the rotor and replace that with a paper cone and throw some iron >>filings in there the filings will zip around the central axis of >>rotation in response to the "whirl" force. When you wrote this I did not make it clear, I don't think this is analogous. It has nothing to do with the action I see in the whirlpool and the hurricane but is strictly a momentum or centrifugal force. Whirlpower is about something completely different. A centrifuge practically eleminates the wobble. Schauberger failed in his vortex power because he went towards high velocity "multiplied input" spin of the vortex. When I first began talking with Curt Hallberg, and creator of Viktor Schauberger's Vortex World, he said he noted the action I am talking about and "was annoyed" because he could not get rid of it in his water cleaning machine he was working on as an outgrowth of Schauberger's work. He has stated he thinks "the wobble" approach might work. And he has posted a site showing all this. You know, if any scientist ever had a test of principle model of a new energy concept and dozens of endorsements fielded at the grass roots level from people who he does know and have no reason to make false comments, i.e. some little insider club, the scientist would able to get immediate recognition , published in a journal, and probably make the evening news. We see stuff come out all the time from the scientific community about new theories that have less proof that I have. WE see new energy websites, many I have written to. They just ignore me. I am ignored by the Conspiracy of Ignorance, and soon I hope to tell the world about it. David >> >>I don't know of any way of getting over unity power out of this sort of >>arrangement though. > >I don't either. Electromagnetic ZPE will not work in my opinion. That >will >be part of the delusion of the old paradigm if I am correct. > >It does have another potential use I will disclose soon but I prefer to >wait >until I/we get the current flowing from gravity driven ZPE. > >David > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 10:57:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA15470; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:52:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:52:31 -0700 Message-ID: <19990927175223.91725.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.156] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Light on Dark Matter Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:51:51 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"h-9Bc2.0.en3.Vxwxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30589 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is an article by Vera Rubin some may find interesting >Note her >saying gravity may be an explaination. Note at my website her comments >about nobody knows what it is. I saw the show transcripted and it was very >clear about Vera's work. She started 30 years ago and the scientific >extablishmen called her nuts and said stop wasting our time too. This >article >is meant to question dark matter not just say that is what it is. I have been keeping her informed of my progress for several months now. I think it is she (and others :) Firmage refers to that have taken the big bang theory down. My comments are inserted into the article. >************************************************************************ >> Article by Vera Rubin >> >> ****Comments by David Dennard**** >> >> Imagine, for a moment, that one night you awaken abruptly >>from a dream. Coming to consciousness, >> blinking your eyes against the blackness, you find >>that, inexplicably, you are standing alone in a vast, >> pitch-black cavern. Befuddled by this predicament, you >>wonder: Where am I? What is this space? >> What are its dimensions? >> >> Groping in the darkness, you stumble upon a book of >>damp matches. You strike one; it quickly >> flares, then fizzles out. Again, you try; again, a >>flash and fizzle. But in that moment, you realize that you >> can glimpse a bit of your surroundings. The next match >>strike lets you sense faint walls far away. >> Another flare reveals a strange shadow, suggesting the >>presence of a big object. Yet another suggests >> you are moving--or, instead, the room is moving >>relative to you. With each momentary flare, a bit >> more is learned. >> >> In some sense, this situation recalls our puzzling >>predicament on Earth. Today, as we have done for >> centuries, we gaze into the night sky from our >>planetary platform and wonder where we are in this >> cavernous cosmos. Flecks of light provide some clues >>about great objects in space. And what we do >> discern about their motions and apparent shadows tells >>us that there is much more that we cannot yet >> see. >> >>********** >>That is so beautiful! >>********** >> >> From every photon we collect from the universe's >>farthest reaches, we struggle to extract information. >> Astronomy is the study of light that reaches Earth >>from the heavens. Our task is not only to collect as >> much light as possible--from ground- and space-based >>telescopes--but also to use what we can see >> in the heavens to understand better what we cannot see >>and yet know must be there. >> >>********** >>Vera knows we have not seen the edge of the universe. >>********** >> >> Based on 50 years of accumulated observations of the >>motions of galaxies and the expansion of the >> universe, most astronomers believe that as much as 90 >>percent of the stuff constituting the universe >> may be objects or particles that cannot be seen. In >>other words, most of the universe's matter does >> not radiate--it provides no glow that we can detect in >>the electromagnetic spectrum. First posited >> some 60 years ago by astronomer Fritz Zwicky, this >>so-called missing matter was believed to reside >> within clusters of galaxies. Nowadays we prefer to >>call the missing mass "dark matter," for it is the >> light, not the matter, that is missing. >> >> Astronomers and physicists offer a variety of >>explanations for this dark matter. On the one hand, it >> could merely be ordinary material, such as ultrafaint >>stars, large or small black holes, cold gas, or dust >> scattered around the universe--all of which emit or >>reflect too little radiation for our instruments to >> detect. It could even be a category of dark objects >>called MACHOs (MAssive Compact Halo >> Objects) that lurk invisibly in the halos surrounding >>galaxies and galactic clusters. On the other hand, >> dark matter could consist of exotic, unfamiliar >>particles that we have not figured out how to observe. >> Physicists theorize about the existence of these >>particles, although experiments have not yet confirmed >> their presence. A third possibility is that our >>understanding of gravity needs a major revision--but >> most physicists do not consider that option seriously. >> >>******** >>Bingo! >> >>I think science is wrong about gravity. Our science is based on a >>thermodynamic >>paradigm that was theorized after Einstein could not prove his Unified >>Field >>Theory. In that theory Einstein thought all energy could be traced back >>to >>gravity and postulated a gravity constant. He then dismissed that idea >>and >>went >>to the concept of curved space. But the measurements never added up. As >>we all >>know he died before he finished his work. >> >>Stephen Hawking has just announced science does not have an understanding >>of the >>basic fundamentals. I think that most basic fundamental is what I call >>"The >>Pearl of Wisdom" posted at my website and is about >>science >>not understanding evaporation and the "speed of light" are caused by >>gravity >>You can't get more basic than that. >>******** >> >> In some sense, our ignorance about dark matter's >>properties has become inextricably tangled up with >> other outstanding issues in cosmology--such as how >>much mass the universe contains, how galaxies >> formed and whether or not the universe will expand >>forever. So important is this dark matter to our >> understanding of the size, shape and ultimate fate of >>the universe that the search for it will very likely >> dominate astronomy for the next few decades.. >> >>******** >>I sure hope can break through before then but I realize it is more likely >>a >>lifetime quest. >>******** >> >> Observing the Invisible >> >> Understanding something you cannot see is >>difficult--but not impossible. Not surprisingly, >> astronomers currently study dark matter by its effects >>on the bright matter that we do observe. For >> instance, when we watch a nearby star wobbling >>predictably, we infer from calculations that a "dark >> planet" orbits around it. Applying similar principles >>to spiral galaxies, we infer dark matter's presencee >> because it accounts for the otherwise inexplicable >>motions of stars within those galaxies.. >> >>****** >>Here is the crux of the matter. The wobble. But is the wobble coming >>from >>planets? Does our Sun wobble due to our planets? I think the wobble >>comes >>from >>the gravity of other Stars in our vicinity. I think Stars affect each >>other >>much more than planets affect Stars. Stars are very far apart but when >>viewed >>in a galaxy as a whole they appear very close together. And they seem to >>work >>in beautiful unison with each other as far as maintaining a fluid type >>wholeness >>to their movement. Distance is not as big a factor as to how bodies >>affect >>each >>other as is mass when it comes to gravity. >>****** >> >> When we observe the orbits of stars and clouds of gas >>as they circle the centers of spiral galaxies, we >> find that they move too quickly. These unexpectedly >>high velocities signal the gravitational tug exerted >> by something more than that galaxy's visible matter. >> >From detailed velocity measurements, we >> conclude that large amounts of invisible matter exert >>the gravitational force that is holding these stars >> and gas clouds in high-speed orbits. We deduce that >>dark matter is spread out around the galaxy,, >> reaching beyond the visible galactic edge and bulging >>above and below the otherwise flattened,, >> luminous galactic disk. As a rough approximation, try >>to envision a typical spiral galaxy, such as our >> Milky Way, as a relatively flat, glowing disk embedded >>in a spherical halo of invisible >> material--almost like an extremely diffuse cloud. >> >>******** >>Sounds like a hurricane to me! >>******** >> >> Looking at a single galaxy, astronomers see within the >>galaxy's radius (a distance of about 50,000 >> light-years) only about one tenth of the total >>gravitating mass needed to account for how fast >> individual stars are rotating around the galactic >>hub. >> >>******** >>Hurricanes also are called most mysterious. Science has added up the >>forces >>and can only explain it by what is called the latent heat theory. They >>count >>the heat of the entire ocean. But the heat of the ocean is not driving >>the >>hurricane, IMO. If fact the heat is not even causing evaporation. >>Gravity >>is >>driving the hurricane as it makes the eye wall wobble and drag the bulk of >>the >>hurricane with it. You can see it if you know what to look for! >>******** >> >> In trying to discover the amount and distribution of >>dark matter in a cluster of galaxies, x-ray >> astronomers have found that galaxies within clusters >>float immersed in highly diffuse clouds of >> 100-million-degree gas--gas that is rich in energy yet >>difficult to detect. Observers have learned to >> use the x-ray-emitting gas's temperature and extent in >>much the same way that optical astronomers >> use the velocities of stars in a single galaxy. In >>both cases, the data provide clues to the nature and >> location of the unseen matter. >> >> >> In a cluster of galaxies, the extent of the >>x-ray-emitting region and temperature of the gas enable us to >> estimate the amount of gravitating mass within the >>cluster's radius, which measures almost 100 million >> light-years. In a typical case, when we add together >>the luminous matter and the x-ray-emitting hot >> gas, we are able to sense roughly 20 to 30 percent of >>the cluster's total gravitating mass. The >> remainder, which is dark matter, remains undetected by >>present instruments. >> >> Subtler ways to detect invisible matter have recently >>emerged. One clever method involves spotting >> rings or arcs around clusters of galaxies. These >>"Einstein rings" arise from an effect known as >> gravitational lensing, which occurs when gravity from >>a massive object bends light passing by. For >> instance, when a cluster of galaxies blocks our view >>of another galaxy behind it, the cluster's gravity >> warps the more distant galaxy's light, creating rings >>or arcs, depending on the geometry involved. >> Interestingly, the nearer cluster acts as nature's >>telescope, bending light into our detectors--light that >> would otherwise have traveled elsewhere in the >>universe. Someday we may exploit these natural >> telescopes to view the universe's most distant >>objects.. >> >>******** >>The gravity telescope. But think about the possibility that the warp you >>are >>seeing is not from the attraction of light by gravity the but the >>repulsion >>of >>light by gravity as described in my theory. Einstein's prediction of the >>index >>is not correct and he stated his theory hinged on the accuracy of his >>prediction. >>******** >> >> Using computer models, we can calculate the mass of >>the intervening cluster, estimating the amount of >> invisible matter that must be present to produce the >>observed geometric deflection. Such calculations >> confirm that clusters contain far more mass than the >>luminous matter suggests. >> >>******** >>Or the way you measure is not correct. If the light is being condensed by >>the >>repulsion of light by gravity it will compress it much more that simple >>refaction would. If fact refraction would not condense the light at all. >>It >>would work more like a prism and scatter the light. >>******** >> >> Even compact dark objects in our own galaxy can >>gravitationally lens light. When a foreground object >> eclipses a background star, the light from the >>background star is distorted into a tiny ring, who's >> brightness far exceeds the star's usual brightness. >>Consequently, we observe an increase, then a >> decrease, in the background star's brightness. Careful >>analysis of the light's variations can tease out >> the mass of the dark foreground lensing object. >> >>******** >>I suggest the tease is that in the variation of intensity as the motion of >>the >>foreground and the background eventually, at a predicted point, the >>numbers >>add >>up. >>******* >> >> Where Is Dark Matter? >> >> Several teams search nightly for nearby lensing >>events, caused by invisible MACHOs in our own >> Milky Way's halo. The search for them covers millions >>of stars in the Magellanic Clouds and the >> Andromeda galaxy. Ultimately, the search will limit >>the amount of dark matter present in our galaxy's >> halo.. >> >> Given the strong evidence that spiral and elliptical >>galaxies lie embedded in large dark-matter halos, >> astronomers now wonder about the location, amount and >>distribution of the invisible material. >> >> To answer those questions, researchers compare and >>contrast observations from specific nearby >> galaxies. For instance, we learn from the motions of >>the Magellanic Clouds, two satellite galaxies >> gloriously visible in the Southern Hemisphere, that >>they orbit within the Milky Way galaxy's halo and >> that the halo continues beyond the clouds, spanning a >>distance of almost 300,000 light-years. In fact,, >> motions of our galaxy's most distant satellite objects >>suggest that its halo may extend twice as far--to >> 600,000 light-years. >> >> Because our nearest neighboring spiral galaxy, >>Andromeda, lies a mere two million light-years away, >> we now realize that our galaxy's halo may indeed span >>a significant fraction of the distance to >> Andromeda and its halo. We have also determined that >>clusters of galaxies lie embedded in even >> larger systems of dark matter. At the farthest >>distances for which we can deduce the masses of >> galaxies, dark matter appears to dwarf luminous matter >>by a factor of at least 10, possibly as much as >> 100. >> >> Overall, we believe dark matter associates loosely >>with bright matter, because the two often appear >> together. Yet, admittedly, this conclusion may stem >>from biased observations, because bright matter >> typically enables us to find dark matter. >> >>******** >>I don't think the data is baised, just the way the light is percieved to >>be >>attracted by gravity. Thus you are getting a kind of reversal in the data >>that >>shows a sort of mirror reversal of what your data revels. This kind of >>"maya" >>tends to run throughout the Universe especially when the basic concept of >>how >>gravity affects light is misunderstood. >>******** >> >> By meticulously studying the shapes and motions of >>galaxies over decades, astronomers have realized >> that individual galaxies are actively evolving, >>largely because of the mutual gravitational pull of galactic >> neighbors. Within individual galaxies, stars remain >>enormously far apart relative to their diameters,, >> thus little affecting one another gravitationally. For >>example, the separation between the sun and its >> nearest neighbor, Proxima Centauri, is so great that >>30 million suns could fit between the two. In >> contrast, galaxies lie close together, relative to >>their diameters--nearly all have neighbors within a few >> diameters. So galaxies do alter one another >>gravitationally, with dark matter's added gravity a major >> contributor to these interactions. >> >>******** >>Here we see the proximity of Galaxies compared to the proximity of Stars. >>Would >>not a better comparison be the proximity of the core of Galaxies to the >>core of >>Galaxies if one is going to make a comparison? Or the proximity of >>Galaxies >>compared to the proximity of Solar Systems? There I think you will find >>the >>comparisons more in line, along with the mass affects mass more than >>distance >>affect mass concept. >>******** >> >> As we watch many galaxies--some growing, shrinking, >>transforming or colliding--we realize that these >> galactic motions would be inexplicable without taking >>dark matter into account. Right in our own >> galactic neighborhood, for instance, such interactions >>are under way. The Magellanic Clouds, our >> second nearest neighboring galaxies, pass through our >>galaxy's plane every billion years. As they do, >> they mark their paths with tidal tails of gas and, >>possibly, stars. Indeed, on every passage, they lose >> energy and spiral inward. In less than 10 billion >>years, they will fragment and merge into the Milky >> Way. >> >>******** >>I think they will can can be explained by Whirlpower. Much like a >>hurricane >>looses strength as it looses water. It shrinks and spirals inward. When >>mass >>is the factor in power gain or loss, gravity has to be the factor of >>power. >> You >>don't get more power to a wheel running on inertia by adding weight! You >>don't >>take away power from a wheel running on inertia by removing weight! Just >>the >>opposite. OH, how that "maya" can plays tricks! :) >>******** >> >> Recently astronomers identified a still nearer >>neighboring galaxy, the Sagittarius dwarf, which lies on >> the far side of the Milky Way, close to its outer >>edge. (Viewed from Earth, this dwarf galaxy appears >> in the constellation Sagittarius.) As it turns out, >>gravity from our galaxy is pulling apart this dwarf >> galaxy, which will cease to exist as a separate entity >>after several orbits. Our galaxy itself may be >> made up of dozens of such previous acquisitions. >> >> Similarly, the nearby galaxy M31 and the Milky Way are >>now hurtling toward each other at the brisk >> clip of 130 kilometers (81 miles) per second. As eager >>spectators, we must watch this encounter for >> a few decades to know if M31 will strike our galaxy or >>merely slide by. If they do collide, we will >> lose: the Milky Way will merge into the more massive >>M31. Computer models predict that in about >> four billion years the galactic pair will become one >>spheroidal galaxy. Of course, by then our sun will >> have burned out--so others in the universe will have >>to enjoy the pyrotechnics. >> >> In many ways, our galaxy, like all large galaxies, >>behaves as no gentle neighbor. It gobbles up nearby >> companions and grinds them into building blocks for >>its own growth. Just as Earth's continents slide >> beneath our feet, so, too, does our galaxy evolve >>around us. By studying the spinning, twisting and >> turning motions and structures of many galaxies as >>they hurtle through space, astronomers can figure >> out the gravitational forces required to sustain their >>motions--and the amount of invisible matter they >> must contain. >> >>******** >>Here Vera points to the solution. The motion of the spiral galaxy holds >>the >>key. I think this is the same motion in the hurricane and the whirlpool. >>Same >>action, different medium. I think it is the gravitation force of >>Whirlpower >>that is driving the galaxies , not mysterious dark matter. But, I would >>not be >>surprised if there is more matter than we can see. My theory states a >>vacuum is >>not a void. A vacuum is something not nothing. >>******** >> >> How much dark matter does the universe contain? The >>destiny of the universe hinges on one still >> unknown parameter: the total mass of the universe. If >>we live in a high-density, or "closed," universe, >> then mutual gravitational attraction will ultimately >>halt the universe's expansion, causing it to >> contract--culminating in a big crunch, followed >>perhaps by reexpansion. If, on the other hand, we live >> in a low-density, or "open," universe, then the >>universe will expand forever. >> >>******** >>I think the Universe is infinite and will and always has been here. The >>total >>mass can never be measured. >>******** >> >> Observations thus far suggest that the universe--or, >>at least, the region we can observe--is open, >> forever expanding. When we add up all the luminous >>matter we can detect, plus all the dark matter >> that we infer from observations, the total still comes >>to only a fraction--perhaps 20 percent--of the >> density needed to stop the universe from expanding >>forever. >> >> I would be content to end the story there, except that >>cosmologists often dream of, and model, a >> universe with "critical" density--meaning one that is >>finely balanced between high and low density. In >> such a universe, the density is just right. There is >>enough matter to slow the universe's continuous >> expansion, so that it eventually coasts nearly to a >>halt. Yet this model does not describe the universe >> we actually measure. As an observer, I recognize that >>more matter may someday be detected, but >> this does not present sufficient reason for me to >>adopt a cosmological model that observations do not >> yet require. >> >>******** >>I think infinity comes pretty close to that concept. Infinity can not >>expand or >>contract. It just forever is. >>******** >> >> Another complicating factor to take into account is >>that totally dark systems may exist--that is, there >> may be agglomerations of dark matter into which >>luminous matter has never penetrated. At present, >> we simply do not know if such totally dark systems >>exist because we have no observational data >> either to confirm or to deny their presence. >> >>******** >>I propose this dark system does exist. If gravity does indeed repel light >>then >>the so called black hole my not be a hole at all, but a very misunderstood >>Star. >>I call it the "Electron Star", the "Starseed", the most dense object in >>the >>Infinite Universe. >>******** >> >> What Is Dark Matter? >> >> Whatever dark matter turns out to be, we know for >>certain that the universe contains large amounts >> of it. For every gram of glowing material we can >>detect, there may be tens of grams of dark matter >> out there. Currently the astronomical jury is still >>out as to exactly what constitutes dark matter. In fact, >> one could say we are still at an early stage of >>exploration. Many candidates exist to account for the >> invisible mass, some relatively ordinary, others >>rather exotic. >> >> Nevertheless, there is a framework in which we must >>work. Nucleosynthesis, which seeks to explain >> the origin of elements after the big bang, sets a >>limit to the number of baryons--particles of ordinary, >> run-of-the-mill matter--that can exist in the >>universe. This limit arises out of the Standard Model of the >> early universe, which has one free parameter--the >>ratio of the number of baryons to the number of >> photons. >> >> From the temperature of the cosmic microwave >>background--which has been measured--the number >> of photons is now known. Therefore, to determine the >>number of baryons, we must observe stars and >> galaxies to learn the cosmic abundance of light >>nuclei, the only elements formed immediately after the >> big bang. >> >> Without exceeding the limits of nucleosynthesis, we >>can construct an acceptable model of a >> low-density, open universe. In that model, we take >>approximately equal amounts of baryons and >> exotic matter (nonbaryonic particles), but in >>quantities that add up to only 20 percent of the matter >> needed to close the universe. This model universe >>matches all our actual observations. On the other >> hand, a slightly different model of an open universe >>in which all matter is baryonic would also satisfy >> observations. Unfortunately, this alternative model >>contains too many baryons, violating the limits of >> nucleosynthesis. Thus, any acceptable low-density >>universe has mysterious properties: most of the >> universe's baryons would remain invisible, their >>nature unknown, and in most models much of the >> universe's matter is exotic. >> >> Exotic Particles >> >> Theorists have posited a virtual smorgasbord of >>objects to account for dark matter, although many of >> them have fallen prey to observational constraints. As >>leading possible candidates for baryonic dark >> matter, there are black holes (large and small), brown >>dwarfs (stars too cold and faint to radiate), >> sun-size MACHOs, cold gas, dark galaxies and dark >>clusters, to name only a few. >> >> The range of particles that could constitute >>nonbaryonic dark matter is limited only slightly by >> theorists' imaginations. The particles include >>photinos, neutrinos, gravitinos, axions and magnetic >> monopoles, among many others. Of these, researchers >>have detected only neutrinos--and whether >> neutrinos have any mass remains unknown. Experiments >>are under way to detect other exotic >> particles. If they exist, and if one has a mass in the >>correct range, then that particle might pervade the >> universe and constitute dark matter. But these are >>very large "ifs." >> >>******** >>Bachall's and Perlmutter's Cosmic Triangle holds the key in my opinion. >>It >>shows a lightweight open Universe being driven by a mysterious >>anit-gravity >>force. I think this force is Whirlpower. It is not really anit-gravity >>but >>gravity powered by the "whirl field". >>******** >> >> To a great extent, the details of the evolution of >>galaxies and clusters depend on properties of dark >> matter. Without knowing those properties, it is >>difficult to explain how galaxies evolved into the >> structures observed today. As knowledge of the early >>universe deepens, I remain optimistic that we >> will soon know much more about both galaxy formation >>and dark matter. >> >>******** >>I am optimistic too. But as long as the big bang rules as the accepted >>origin >>of the Universe I don't think we will ever know the real truth. Not until >>the >>whirlpool is built and tested by science. Nobody ever built a whirlpool >>before >>and years of lists and many, many scientists have confirmed it. >> >>In my theory the Universe is infinite. It has and will always be here. >>******** >> >> What we fail to see with our eyes, or detectors, we >>can occasionally see with our minds, aided by >> computer graphics. Computers now play a key role in >>the search for dark matter. Historically, >> astronomers have focused on observations; now the >>field has evolved into an experimental science. >> Today's astronomical experimenters sit neither at lab >>benches nor at telescopes but at computer >> terminals. They scrutinize cosmic simulations in which >>tens of thousands of points, representing stars,, >> gas and dark matter, interact gravitationally over a >>galaxy's lifetime. A cosmologist can tweak a >> simulation by adjusting the parameters of dark matter >>and then watch what happens as virtual galaxies >> evolve in isolation or in a more realistic, crowded >>universe. >> >> Computer models can thus predict galactic behavior. >>For instance, when two galaxies suffer a close >> encounter, violently merging or passing briefly in the >>night, they sometimes spin off long tidal tails. Yet >> from the models, we now know these tails appear only >>when the dark matter of each galaxy's halo is >> three to 10 times greater than its luminous matter. >>Heavier halos produce stubbier tails. This >> realization through modeling has helped observational >>astronomers to interpret what they see and to >> understand more about the dark matter they cannot see. >>For the first time in the history of cosmology, >> computer simulations actually guide observations. >> >> New tools, no less than new ways of thinking, give us >>insight into the structure of the heavens. Less >> than 400 years ago Galileo put a small lens at one end >>of a cardboard tube and a big brain at the >> other end. In so doing, he learned that the faint >>stripe across the sky, called the Milky Way, in fact >> comprised billions of single stars and stellar >>clusters. Suddenly, a human being understood what a >> galaxy is. Perhaps in the coming century, another--as >>yet unborn--big brain will put her eye to a >> clever new instrument and definitively answer, What is >>dark matter? >> >>******** >>Like Galileo was scorned by science so am I. >> >>Like Galileo came up with the compound lens, I have the compound vortex. >> >>I only hope, not like with Galileo, science will listen and test my >>concept >>and >>not lock me up for say science is wrong. >> >>David Dennard >>http://www.whirlpower.cc >>******** >> >> The Author >> >> VERA RUBIN is a staff member at the Department of >>Terrestrial Magnetism of the Carnegiee >> Institution of Washington, where she has been since >>1965. That same year, she became the firstt >> woman permitted to observe at Palomar Observatory. The >>author of more than 200 papers on thee >> structure of the Milky Way, motions within galaxies >>and large-scale motions in the universe, shee >> received Carnegie Mellon University's Dickson Prize >>for Science in 1994 and the Royal Astronomicall >> Society's Gold Medal in 1996. President Bill Clinton >>awarded her the National Medal of Science inn >> 1993 and appointed her to the President's Committee on >>the National Medal of Science in 1995. >> >> Commentator >> >>David Dennard is not a member of any group, nor does he have any great >>titles. >>He has been awarded two patents but never did much about the business of >>marketing. He just keeps on inventing and now has dozens more ready to >>go. >> He >>is an accomplished lucid dreamer. >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 11:38:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA04849; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:34:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:34:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199909271834.OAA00283 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:29:53 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zopsq.0.hB1.4Zxxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30590 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I just got a brilliant idea. Maybe the miracle behind the B-2 stealth > bomber is electric induction and Lenz law. This is the only way I can > explain the high speed B-2 is said to be able to achieve. ??? High speed? It doesn't go that fast. > A high speed > electric dipole like B-2 will be experienced by the surrounding air as a > magnet. I suppose air is diamagnetic so it will be repulsed. The air > surrounding the plane will thus be gradually accelerated by the > approaching magnetic field and there will be no sonic boom and the airdrag > will also be reduced. What you are thinking of is an ion/electrostatic engine. Nothing new here, it has been around for a long time. > It is necessarry to explain air drag and sonic boom. "Electrogravitics" > alone can not eliminate these constrains. There is no sonic boom on the B-2. It doesn't fly faster than Mach 1. Assuming there IS a military program to investigate the use of ion engines, or electric wind engines (whichever the case may be) there is surely a better testbed for this technology than highly expensive B-2's. --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 12:02:23 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA16553; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:59:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:59:45 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:59:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained In-Reply-To: <199909271834.OAA00283 fh105.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2Lg3n3.0.Z24.Xwxxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30591 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > I just got a brilliant idea. Maybe the miracle behind the B-2 stealth > > bomber is electric induction and Lenz law. This is the only way I can > > explain the high speed B-2 is said to be able to achieve. > > ??? High speed? It doesn't go that fast. My conjecture, based on credible sources, is that the B-2 flies much more than 10 times the speed of sound. The USAF does not pay 2 GUSD for a bomber that is slower than ICBMs. Its wise to assume that information about top military technology is hidden from the public. Have you never asked why F-117 looks antiaerodynamic? Maybe the the explanation is that the airdrag is reduced. > > A high speed > > electric dipole like B-2 will be experienced by the surrounding air as a > > magnet. I suppose air is diamagnetic so it will be repulsed. The air > > surrounding the plane will thus be gradually accelerated by the > > approaching magnetic field and there will be no sonic boom and the > airdrag > > will also be reduced. > > What you are thinking of is an ion/electrostatic engine. Nothing new here, > it has been around for a long time. There is no engine in the technology I am describing. I am definitely not describing an electrostatic motor. You have not understood. > > It is necessarry to explain air drag and sonic boom. "Electrogravitics" > > alone can not eliminate these constrains. > > There is no sonic boom on the B-2. It doesn't fly faster than Mach 1. > Assuming there IS a military program to investigate the use of ion engines, > or electric wind engines (whichever the case may be) there is surely a > better testbed for this technology than highly expensive B-2's. The B-2 is not a testbed. Its the most lethal weapon humankind has experienced. Would you pay $ 2 000 000 000 for a subsonic aircraft? Mach 1 would be disastrous to the US in a nuclear duel. You are talking about ion-engines, I'm not. Maybe you are an American trying to disguise your most interesting piece of thechnology. Thats understandable but this advantage will not hold forever. The testing with electrodynamic fields were done more than 30 years ago, see "Northrup Studying Sonic Boom Remedy." Aviation Week & Space Technology, Jan. 22, 1968, p.21. David David Jonsson Phone +46-18-24 51 52 Fax +46-18-24 51 56 GSM +46-706-339487 E-mail david bahnhof.se Uppsala, Sweden Web: http://bahnhof.se/~david/ Postgiro 499 40 54-7 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 13:55:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA28012; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:47:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:47:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990927164635.0079c160 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:46:35 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained In-Reply-To: References: <199909271834.OAA00283 fh105.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"QukaW2.0.Wr6.xVzxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30592 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >My conjecture, based on credible sources, is that the B-2 flies much more >than 10 times the speed of sound. That's preposterous. It would tear to pieces. And those itty-bitty engines tucked away inside could never do it. What are these "credible sources"? The USAF does not pay 2 GUSD for a >bomber that is slower than ICBMs. Its wise to assume that information >about top military technology is hidden from the public. It is wise to assume that the U.S. Government and the Pentagon could not hide a marble in a mineshaft. At no time in U.S. history, even at the height of WWII, has the U.S. ever been good at keeping secrets, except the date and location of the Normandy invasion. The Russians knew everything about us. The physicist Charles Townes, who had nothing to do with the Manhattan project, knew that the U.S. was building an atomic bomb. Arthur Clarke, who was a junior scientist working on radar in England heard rumors about it. If they knew, so did thousands of others outside the program. Townes writes: The military generally kept its secrets fairly well, but most of us in technical work have a good idea of about what country was doing. I had friends who went to the Los Alamos national laboratory in New Mexico. The copy nothing to let me know what the general state of progress was. In 1939, after the discovery of fission was announced, most of the physicists at Caltech realized that an atomic bomb might be possible. When everything in this area of research was hushed up, we knew it was because the government was starting a serious atomic bomb project. (p. 39) - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 13:57:56 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA29144; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:50:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:50:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:50:22 -1000 Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909271650536.SM00231 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"ubCYh.0.I77.OYzxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30593 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David - Perhaps a more likely explanation for the high cost is the inefficiency of huge government sponsored gravy train programs, as is commonly proposed. Sometimes the simples explanation *is* the correct one. But my favorite version is that the B-2 is a cover plane, the visible result of a much larger development program that involved more than one plane and can account for the huge costs, with the cover story for that being the cost overruns and inefficiencies, etc. I don't believe the B-2 is anything but a big resin composite subsonic flying wing with stealth technology and lots of electronic and radar countermeasures but no extraordinary aerodynamic magic. I think the still-hidden part of the "aurora", and that was in fact the name of the B-2 project, does or did fly at mach 5++ at high altitudes on engines entirely different from the B-2's conventional jets. Both of these explanations seem to be a good fit to the facts as they are publicly known, and there is also a long tradition for both within the history of US military procurement. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 14:18:12 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA29139; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:15:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:15:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:15:36 -1000 Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909271715349.SM00231 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"hXsFv.0.977._vzxt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30594 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed - > When everything > in this area of research was hushed up, we knew it was because > the government was starting a serious atomic bomb project. Reminds me of the situation with gravity modification efforts in the late 50's. It went suddenly from legitimate research to a taboo topic, only for crackpots and UFO believers. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 15:25:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA16610; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:15:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:15:33 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990927180431.015d9760 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:04:31 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained In-Reply-To: References: <199909271834.OAA00283 fh105.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-wQs21.0.S34.5o-xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30595 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:59 PM 9/27/99 +0200, David Jonsson wrote: >On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > >> > I just got a brilliant idea. Maybe the miracle behind the B-2 stealth >> > bomber is electric induction and Lenz law. This is the only way I can >> > explain the high speed B-2 is said to be able to achieve. >> >> ??? High speed? It doesn't go that fast. > >My conjecture, based on credible sources, is that the B-2 flies much more >than 10 times the speed of sound. The USAF does not pay 2 GUSD for a >bomber that is slower than ICBMs. Its wise to assume that information >about top military technology is hidden from the public. The cost is due to stealth technology. Powerplant: Four General Electric F118-GE-100 engines Thrust: 17,300 pounds each engine Length: 69 feet (20.9 meters) Height: 17 feet (5.1 meters) Wingspan: 172 feet (52.12 meters) Speed: High subsonic <------------ Ceiling: 50,000 feet (15,152 meters) Takeoff Weight (Typical): 336,500 pounds (152,635 kilograms) Range: Intercontinental, unrefueled Armament: Conventional or nuclear weapons Payload: 40,000 pounds (18,144 kilograms) Crew: Two pilots Unit cost: Approximately $1.3 billion Date Deployed: December 1993 USAF data here: http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/B_2_Spirit.html Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 15:35:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA24140; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:28:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:28:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199909272228.SAA25906 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:23:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jwz5n1.0.6v5.6--xt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30596 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > My conjecture, based on credible sources, is that the B-2 flies much more > than 10 times the speed of sound. The USAF does not pay 2 GUSD for a > bomber that is slower than ICBMs. Its wise to assume that information > about top military technology is hidden from the public. Mach 10? The airframe design would fail. > Have you never asked why F-117 looks antiaerodynamic? Maybe the the > explanation is that the airdrag is reduced. I know why its built that way: to reduce its radar cross section. It does not go fast, mainly due to the weird airframe, as well as embedded engines. These are embedded to reduce IR signature. > There is no engine in the technology I am describing. I am definitely not > describing an electrostatic motor. You have not understood. What are you describing? > The B-2 is not a testbed. Its the most lethal weapon humankind has > experienced. Would you pay $ 2 000 000 000 for a subsonic aircraft? Mach 1 > would be disastrous to the US in a nuclear duel. Most lethal? I'd consider a Ohio class boomer to be a bit more lethal. Or a Typhoon. :) > You are talking about ion-engines, I'm not. Maybe you are an American > trying to disguise your most interesting piece of thechnology. Thats > understandable but this advantage will not hold forever. I am not trying to disguise technology. I wish I knew what the military advanced research programs have up their sleeves. (if anything, since the budget cuts). > The testing with electrodynamic fields were done more than 30 years ago, > see "Northrup Studying Sonic Boom Remedy." Aviation Week & Space > Technology, Jan. 22, 1968, p.21. I'm not denying that this research has not been done, but I am skeptical as to whether it is currently being used...especially in the B-2. --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 17:21:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32446; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:13:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:13:14 -0700 Message-ID: <19990928001254.40267.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.138] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Whirlpool Test Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:12:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"QE51l3.0.uw7.PW0yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30597 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all, and Hi George, I didn't know were here. :) If anyone here can point me to a picture, a drawing, a theory, anything about a whirlpool being built and tested by science I would greatly apreciate it. I asked last year and nobody could. I have asked on many lists for years and nobody can. If you can and it has been tried please tell me. If not, where is you people's curiosity. Are there no real scientists left in the world that can meet my challenge? Puharich challenged me 22 years ago after I wrote "The Crossroads" to find "The Holy Grail". If he were still alive I would know where to take it but he is dead. What am I supposed to do with it? My being "in sackcloth and ashes" was the "way" to find it! I did my job! David Dennard The Phoenix http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 18:11:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19030; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:02:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:02:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device In-Reply-To: <8d096aad.25200afe aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zeXXR.0.Bf4.EE1yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30598 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 Tstolper aol.com wrote: > Bill, > > Thanks for posting the news of Rod Driver's articles about the levitating > magnet. It sounds like a great toy, and the Harrigan/Hones saga also has > something to say about inventor's disease, patent law, the relationship > between mathematics and physics, the lure of fame, and the lasting power of > childhood dreams. > > After reading Driver's two stories in THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL, I wouldn't be > all that hard on Bill Hones and his father. The Sherloks need to get their Expose' site back up and running. I think you haven't seen the evidence. If you review it, I think you'll come to a very different conclusion. > They should have given Harrigan some credit and perhaps money, too, but > judging by the articles, the levitron would never have gone beyond Harrigan's > isolated dwelling in Vermont without Bill Hones. So, if somebody steals your idea and makes money off with it, and never mentions your name, then this is forgivable because at least they got it out into the world? Really? I'm shocked by such reasoning. This sort of reasoning can be used to justify almost any crime. On the Sherlok's site they used this analogy: the theives who stole the racehorse from the people who raised it at least entered it into many races, so their theft was not so reprehensible! Right? > The changes that Bill and Ed Hones made to Harrigan's invention may not have > been so minor from the point of view of developing a toy that the average > layman could get to work. The major change was to insist that a square magnet was necessary, and that a round magnet would not work. If they had not done this, then their patent probably would not have been allowed. A couple of physicists showed that this is entirely bogus (and indeed, round levitrons work fine.) > Driver reported that the videotape of Hones' visit > to Harrigan showed that it took Hones a long time to get Harrigan's version > to work, even with Harrigan's guidance. One of the Harrigan devices had an electromagnet. You spun the little magnetic top, then turned the electromagnet knob, and up it went. No "long time" needed. But that was the expensive version. The non-electromagnet version was much more difficult. Have you ever played with Levitron? Probably not, otherwise you would know that it takes a long time to get it to work. I believe that the "Hones" method of spinning the top on a plate, and then lifting the plate, is covered in the Harrigan patent. The difficulty in operating Levitron is inherent in the design. The Sherloks, the people who exposed the theft of Levitron, were in business selling instructional videotapes which showed everyone how to make their Levitrons "fly". It was so difficult to "fly" Levitron that they did a good business selling tapes. > > Driver wrote that it wasn't a trivial matter to get the Hones toy to work > either: I'll have to review the two patents, but it is my understanding that Harrigan's toy *WAS* Hones' toy. The Hones version was difficult to poerate because it *WAS* the Harrigan version (except for having a square base.) Still, this is besides the point. If I take you into my confidence and show you all of the details of my invention... should you be allowed to go start a separate company selling them? In the Expose' website, the story was given that Hones and Harrigan could not come to agreement over royalties. The original inventor wanted too much money. Therefor Hones decided to give up and find a way to sell the device anyway. In the real world, when we cannot agree on the price of something, yet you want it very badly but will not pay my price, can you justify stealing it by saying "Well, the price was too high!" ? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 18:11:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19793; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:03:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:03:04 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:10:01 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: The Fundamental Quantum Units (Corrected somewhat) Resent-Message-ID: <"g3oo4.0.Br4.7F1yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30599 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE FUNDAMENTAL QUANTUM UNITS The purpose here is to take a look at some consequences of the assumption that the fundamental phsyical values, distance, time, mass, and charge, and therefore all derived physical values, are either quantized or rationalized. A physical value is said to be quantized if it exists in reality only in integer multiples of a fundamental value called the quantum of physical value. The integer multiple is called the quantum number of the occurance of the physical value. It is assumed without proof, but as mathematically true, that values which are computed from quantized values by combinations of addition, multiplication, or multiplication by a constant, will be quantized. Values which are computed as ratios of quantized values are called rational physical values. Rational physical values have no minimum, and heir discrete nature may not be observable unless the quantum numbers of the constituent values are all near 1. Based upon experience it is reasonable to assume that charge is quantized at a value e, the charge of the electron. Let {Qx} denote the quantum of unit x. Thus we assume and define: {Qe} = e = 1.6021773349 x10^-19 coulombs (D1) {Qd} = quantum of distance (D2) {Qt} = quantum of time (D3) {Qv} = {Qd}/{Qt} = quantum of velocity (D4) Assumed constants are: speed of light: c = 299792458 m s^-1 (D5) Plank's constant: h = 6.626075540x10^-34 kg m^2 s^-1 (D6) Gravitational constant: G = 6.67259(85)x10^-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2 (D6a) The above constants are from the 74th Edition of the CRC Handbook, thus are from the 1986 CODATA Recommended Values of the Fundamental Physical Constants. The derivations that follow are not necessarily limited to the assumption that space is Euclidian or 3 dimensional, only that the above terms have meaning in one or more dimensions. It might be supposed distance has meaning and is quantized in some dimensions and not others, then the following deductions would only have meaning in the quantized dimensions, but that is beyond the scope of present consideration. It is sufficient here to assume we are talking about conventional 3D Euclidian space. If either time and space are not quantized then all other values involving those units, including energy, can not be quantized, as they are functions of distance and time and Plank's constant h. All physical units can be expressed in the mks system, i.e. as expressions in units of meters, kilograms, and seconds, and charge in coulombs. If both distance and time are quantized, and a quanta of something can only advance one unit of distance per unit of time then there is a limit to how fast anything can go. It is only natural and customary to assume that limit is c. We then have: {Qd}/{Qt} = c (D7) and thus: {Qd} = c {Qt} (D8) In fact, the quantization of space and time provides a reason for the limitation c. If we make the above few assumptions a full quantization of all physical values falls therefrom. The denial in reality of any deductions that fall from these assumptions denies the assumptions. The above seems completely absurd and outside human experience. We could assume that velocity (speed actually, since we only consider one dimension at a time for the sake of simplicity) is a rational physical value, because it appears to be the ratio of two physical values {Qd} and {Qt}. However, angular momentum p = m v d is quantized. If v is rational then there is no basis for momentum to be quantized, it must be rational also, which contradicts observation. Therefore, velocity is not a rational physical value, and we have a basis for the seemingly special treatment of velocity (speed). If we have three physical variables x, y and z where z = f(x,y) (D8a) then we expect the function f to be closed, that is for it to produce a corresponding value z. This closure then guarantees that for some z1 we have: z1 = f({Qx},{Qy}) (D8b) In the case where: z = x*y (D8c) for example, where: z1 = {Qx}*{Qy} (D8d) we can not automatically assume that the value z1 is the minimum possible value of z1 and thus {Qz} = z1. Closure only demands that: z1 = N1*{Qz}, N1 integer > 0 (D8e) so z1 might actually come in much smaller units than it first appears. Unless there are mitigating circumstances like the case of {Qd}/{Qt} = c, the quantum multiple Ni has to be employed for each function Fi. It is further assumed here that a physical value that can be observed has antecendents. That is to say that given a value z in (D8a) that can be observed in nature, then there exists some x, y pair in physical reality that correspond to the z. We have to be very careful about use of this assumption. The values z, x, and y relating to two different functions (say matter waves and photons) my be expressed in similar units, yet have different quanta as applied to the laws in question, e.g. angular momentum and matter-waves. There is a need to justify the use of identical quanta as applied to each law. Eqaution (D8) appears to give problems in that v t = d, so since velocity v = d/t is quantized there exists {Qv} such that: {Qv} {Qt} = N1 * {Qd}, N1>0 is integer (D9) {Qv} = N1 {Qd}/{Qt} = N1 c (D9a) seeming to imply that during each quantum of time everything in motion moves either not at all, or moves exactly at c or, if feasible, in multiples of c! However, to move less than c, say at 0.9 C, we can conclude there is about a 0.1 probability of no motion per each quantum of time advancement. Motion is thus in staggered jumps. The most likely assumption to be denied, and which appears to be denied by (D9a) if N1 can be greater than 1, is the limit on how many units anything can move in a time period. The amount of movement may possibly be determined stochastically and involve motion more that one unit per unit of time. Reconciliation of QM with relativity demands a means of handling the Doppler shift, apparent changes in units of mass time and distance, and the requantization of the resulting shifted energy values upon receipt of a photon. This reconciliation, upon receipt of a photon, appears to happen via stochastic methods, i.e. waveform collapse probabilities, etc. This may be an indication that photon motion is a random walk phenomenon, which would help explain the expansion of photons with time, though it does little to explain interference patterns. It is of interest that a fixed probability of motion per each unit of time is similar in macro effect to motion due to a stochastic function giving a variable number of quanta, but having a mean motion per unit time, depending on speed in the given dimension, thus the determination of which model applies to how the motion is achieved is moot to Newtonian mechanics. Though mass assigned to photons is not conventional, it has meaning in conventional physics with regard to mass delivered by the photon energy, and mass taken away upon emission, and this associated mass is readily adjusted for frame of reference. Let's see where the assumption that photons have an associated mass leads. Suppose we have a photon1 with minimum energy {Qe}, mass m1, wavelength lambda1, then, using m = E/c^2: m1 = {Qe}/c^2 (1) but {Qm} <= m1 so: {Qm} =< {Qe}/c^2 (2) {Qm}c^2 =< {Qe} (3) Suppose we have a photon2 with minimum associated mass {Qm}, energy E2: E2 = {Qm}c^2 (4) but {Qe} <= E2 so: {Qe} =< {Qm}c^2 (5) but taking (3) and (5) together we have: {Qm}c^2 =< {Qe} =< {Qm}c^2 (6) {Qm}c^2 = {Qe} (7) c^2 = {Qe}/{Qm} (8) thus photon1 and photon2 are exactly the same, m1={Qm}, and E2 = {Qe}. If c = {Qd}/{Qt} (9) we have: {Qm}{Qd}^2={Qe}{Qt}^2 (10) Suppose we have photon3 with minimum wavelength {Qd}, energy Emax, mass Mmax: Emax = h c/{Qd} (11) Since {Qd} is the smallest possible wavelength, Emax is the largest possible energy for a photon. Emax = Mmax C^2 (12) So Mmax is the largest feasible mass for a photon. Substituting (8): Emax = Mmax {Qe}/{Qm} (13) which is no surprise because energy and mass always remain in proportion. For a photon, assume the more commoly accepted: E = p c (14) p = h/lambda (15) For photon4 of minimum energy {Qe}, momentum p4, we have: {Qe} = p4 c (16) p4 = {Qe}/c (17) {Qp} =< p4 = {Qe}/c (18) {Qp} c =< {Qe} (19) For photon5 of minimum momentum {Qp}, energy E5 we have: E5 = {Qp} c (20) {Qe} =< E5 = {Qp} c (21) Combining (19) and (21): {Qp} c =< {Qe} =< {Qp} c (22) {Qp} c = {Qe} (23) Note that for photon3 of minimum wavelength {Qd}, momentum Pmax, we have Pmax = h/{Qd} (24) For a photon with the smallest feasible momentum {Qp} we have the largest feasible wavelength Wmax: {Qp} = h/Wmax (25) Wmax = h/{Qp} (26) If we knew {Qp} we could determine Wmax and look for signs of a maximum photon. If we could determine the maximum photon size we could then determine {Qp} and {Qe} etc. However, {Qp} is so small that the maximum size photon is not likely to be observable. For angular momentum use: L = r P (27) The smallest possible angular momentum Lmin is thus the smallest possible momentum {Qp} at the smallest possible radius {Qd}: Lmin = {Qd} {Qp} (28) We know that for some integer N1 and the quantum of angular momentum {Qpa}, Lmin = N1 {Qpa} (29) Lmin <= (Qpa} (30) for any momentum from (27) we have: L = (n1 {Qd}) (N3 {Qp}) (31) So chose L to be the quantum of angular momentum {Qpa}: {Qpa} = (N1 {Qd}) (N3 {Qp}) (32) {Qpa} = (N1 N3) {Qd} {Qp} = (N1 N3) Lmin (33) so {Qpa} =< Lmin (33a) which, combined with (30): {Qpa} =< Lmin <= (Qpa} (34) so {Qpa} = Lmin (35) {Qpa} = {Qp} {Qd} (36) Note that this only applies to physical motion. If angular momentum can somehow be attributed to motionless entities, i.e singularities, then equation (32) does not hold, thus {Qp} = {Qp} {Qd} does not necessarily hold. Angular momentum due to spin is thus in question. Numerous other formulations need similar evaluations. The above represents a sample of methods to approach a theory based upon quantization of all fundamental units. The question now arises if these assumptions and methods lead to a self-contradiction. We presently have from (8) and (19): {Qe} = c {Qp} = c^2 {Qm} (36) {Qe} > {Qp} > {Qm} (37) and from (25): Wmax {Qp} = h (38) The larger the maximum possible wavelength the lighter the lightest possible photon. The lighter the photon the less momentum and the larger the wavelength. Without some as yet undiscoverd upper bound on photon size, there a runaway problem resulting in {Qm}, etc., vanishing, contradicting the assumption that {Qm} is the smallest possible quantity of mass. If we assume the Bohr quantization condition for angular momentum L, using the above notation: {Qpa} = h/(2 Pi) (39) we have immediately: {Qm}{Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) (a mass-distance conjugation?) (40) {Qm} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi c^2) (a mass-time certainty) (41) The above appears to be in close agreement with Heisenberg's momentum-displacement law: (delta P)(delta x) >= h/(2 pi) (42) which is written in this notation as: (N1 {Qp}) (N2 {Qd}) >= h/(2 pi) (43) N1 N2 {Qm} {Qd} >= h/(2 pi c) (44) which closely matches (40) above. By substituting for {Qp} {Qd} the value c^2 {Qm} {Qt} into (43) we get: N1 N2 c^2 {Qm} {Qt} >= h(2 pi) (45) or N1 N2 {Qe} {Qt} >= h(2 pi) (46) which is a very strange deduction. It seems to practically guarantee free energy! The energy-time should be constrained, not provided a lower bound. Heisenberg obtained (delta E)(delta t) <= h/(2 pi) (47) for borrowed energy. Combining the two inequalities (6) and (47) indicates: {Qe} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi) (48) which leads right back to and confirms the original quantization of angular momentum: {Qpa} = {Qp} {Qd} = h/(2 pi) (49) Except for the = relation instead of the required =< relation, equation (48) is a close match to Heisenberg. The question is whether the = condition is sufficient to deny the orginal assumtions about quantization of mass time and distance. If we express the de Broglie matter-wave relation: lambda-mass P-mass = h (50) in our quantum notation we have: (N5 {Qd-mass}) (N6 {Qp-mass}) = h (51) and we can see that the units of mass waves must not be identical to the units of photon (electromagnetic) waves because if: {Qd-mass} = (Qd} (52) and {Qp-mass} = {Qp} (53) then (51) and (49) should reconcile, but they are off by a factor of 2 Pi. However, the mass involved here is just that mass. The mass associted withthe photons in the analysis was not that of a photon, but that delivered or taken away by photon-matter transactions. Mass is mass, so (52) should hold true. This then leaves: {Qd} {Qp} = h/(2 Pi) = {Qd} {Qp-mass) /(2 Pi) (54) {Qp} = {Qp-mass) /(2 Pi) (55) but both momentums should be expressed in form: {Qm} c = ({Qd-mass} c)/{2 Pi) (55) leaving the contradiciton: c = c/(2 Pi) (56) SUMMARY The derivation of the following conclusions has been shown: {Qd} = c {Qt} {Qe} = {Qm} c^2 {Qm}{Qd}^2 = {Qe}{Qt}^2 {Qp} c = {Qe} {Qp} = c {Qm} {Qpa} = {Qp}{Qd} = h/(2 pi) Wmax {Qp} = h {Qe} = c {Qp} = c^2 {Qm} {Qe} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi) (not exactly Heisenberg?) {Qm} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi c^2) {Qm} {Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) (N5 {Qd-mass}) (N6 {Qp-mass}) = h from which also immediately follows other forms: {Qpa} = c^2 {Qm} {Qt} {Qpa} = c {Qm} {Qd} {Qp} {Qd} = c^2 {Qm} {Qt} {Qm} {Qd}^2 = {Qe} {Qt}^2 {Qe}{Qt}{Qp} = c^2 {Qm}^2 {Qd} {Qt}{Qp} = {Qm}{Qd} The discrepancies with known laws thus far appear to be: 1. An unbounded value for maximum photon wavelength contradicts the possibility of the existence of discrete units of photon momentum, therefore quantization of photon momentum, energy or associated mass delivered or emitted. 2. The deduction of {Qe} {Qt} >= h(2 pi) appears to contradict or at least constrain the Heisenberg equivalent {Qe} {Qt} =< h(2 pi), although the implications for free energy are appealing. 3. The de Broglie matter-wave relation disagrees with the quantum of angular momentum by a factor of 1/(2 Pi). Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 19:21:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA17170; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:16:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:16:39 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:20:58 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: Gussed? B-2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990927164635.0079c160 pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jO3J11.0.CC4.7K2yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30600 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Probably the term is well known, but I don't know it!. What does .... GUSD... ? mean? please. A curiouser set of words. J From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 19:30:44 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20379; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:23:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:23:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:29:54 -0500 X-Sender: temalloy metro.lakes.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37ECDA09.DE1342E3 servtech.com> References: <003701bf0747$ab133b60$505323cb -> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: Magnetic bubbles.... Nanobubbles Resent-Message-ID: <"1YxJx.0.L-4.-Q2yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30601 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bob Gray >I rather thought that Sweet and Searl's stuff, if it works at all, would turn >out to >involve some kind of long range spin wave or magnetization oscillations. But >then >Bob Gray Bob, in your investigation of Sweet's vacuum triode amplifier, did you figure out what negative electricity is? The story I heard was that when you hook an Edison type light bulb to a negative electrical generator it glowed but got cold. People in the vacinity of this electricity felt weak, as the energy seemed to suck the life force out of them. This sounds like a phenomena that you would want to have well shielded if you were going to generage it and do experiements with it. Thomas Malloy From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 19:31:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA23089; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:28:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:28:45 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:34:38 -0500 X-Sender: temalloy metro.lakes.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <18a0aa9c.251d6405 aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? Resent-Message-ID: <"VDJPd3.0.he5.SV2yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30603 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: he vortex has sucked me in! > >I am busy exploring the amazing claims of Schauberger, Hasslburger and >others. I am about to build a test rig, but before I do I want to know if >anyone has experimental evidence to support or contradict any of the >following: > >Trevor Sleath > You've asked a question that I've been wondering about myself, I hope that yo will keep us posted! I heard that Scientific American had published an article about a trout moving through a stream being aided by vortex action. I guess that is where Schauengerger first noticed the effect. I looked, but was unable to find it. Thomas From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 19:32:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21962; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:26:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:26:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199909280226.WAA01145 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: Gussed? B-2 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:21:48 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NsSSQ3.0._M5.lT2yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30602 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Probably the term is well known, but I don't know it!. > > What does .... GUSD... ? mean? please. A curiouser set of words. Billion US dollars? I'm just guessing, but I think it means "Giga-United-States-Dollars", or 1 billion dollars. --Kyle From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 20:24:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA12481; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:20:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:20:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37F0336A.1E7216B6 ro.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:18:02 -0500 From: "Patrick V. Reavis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1cmcE.0.p23.7G3yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30604 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A William Beaty wrote: > > > My advice on how to fight this stuff matches what you are already > doing: be utterly honest, and expose both YOUR OWN actions and Hones' > actions to as much publicity as possible. Assume that Hones is > slightly dangerous: he is fighting to defend his image of himself as a > good person, and consequentially you threaten him at a very deep > level. He may talk himself into seeing a need to commit acts of > violence. In addition, people with the "lie disease" are extremely > vengeful. They will remember even small personal slights for the rest > of their lives. On the positive side: from what I've seen of the legal > world, the people there are aware of these "snake" types of > personality, and probably won't be easily taken in by Hones as are the > people surrounding him. The greatest lies we will tell are to ourselves..... Dime-store philosophy-101 -- Regards, Patrick V. Reavis http://ro.com/~preavis http://ro.com/~preavis/Quiz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 22:40:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA19630; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:37:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:37:56 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:45:14 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Planck frequency - addenda Resent-Message-ID: <"U4rqJ1.0.eo4.qG5yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30605 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:52 PM 9/24/99, Scott Little wrote: >Most ZPF enthusiasts say the Planck frequency (1.9E43 Hz) is the >appropriate high-frequency cutoff. Either matter quits interacting with EM >radiation above that frequency or that is the highest frequency that >spacetime itself can sustain. Using the Plank frequency Fmax = 1.9E43 Hz value you provide as a means to estimate the quantum of time we have: {Qt} = 1/1.9E43 Hz = 5.26E-44 sec {Qd} = c {Qt} = 1.58E-35 m Emax = h Fmax = h 1.9E43 Hz = 1.259E10 J (agrees with you) Pmax = h/{Qd} = Emax/c = 42.0 kg m/s >From {Qm} {Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) we have: {Qm} = h/(2 Pi c {Qd}) = 2.23E-8 kg (Way huge by factor of 10^23 at least, maybe more than 10^40) {Qp} = c {Qm} = 6.67 Kg m/s (Too big!!!) {Qe} = c {Qp} = 2x10^9 J (Yikes big!!!) {Qpa} = c^2 (5.26E-44 sec) (2.23E-8 kg) = 1.0542E-34 kg m^2 s^-1 (right) {Qpa} = c^2 {Qm} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi) = 1.0545E-34 kg m^2 s^-1 (right) Wmax = h/{Qp} = 9.93E-35 m (Way low) The problem seems to be with the equation {Qpa} = h/(2 Pi) SUMMARY OF PREVIOUSLY DERIVED RELATIONSHIPS {Qd} = c {Qt} {Qe} = {Qm} c^2 {Qm}{Qd}^2 = {Qe}{Qt}^2 {Qp} c = {Qe} {Qp} = c {Qm} {Qpa} = {Qp}{Qd} = h/(2 pi) Wmax {Qp} = h {Qe} = c {Qp} = c^2 {Qm} {Qe} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi) (not exactly Heisenberg?) {Qm} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi c^2) {Qm} {Qd} = h/(2 Pi c) (N5 {Qd-mass}) (N6 {Qp-mass}) = h from which also immediately follows other forms: {Qpa} = c^2 {Qm} {Qt} {Qpa} = c {Qm} {Qd} {Qp} {Qd} = c^2 {Qm} {Qt} {Qm} {Qd}^2 = {Qe} {Qt}^2 {Qe}{Qt}{Qp} = c^2 {Qm}^2 {Qd} {Qt}{Qp} = {Qm}{Qd} Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Sep 27 23:40:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA01628; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:33:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:33:06 -0700 Message-ID: <19990928063305.6815.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.141] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Whirlpower Cosmology Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:32:56 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"lce863.0.MP.X46yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30606 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just show me the data and I'll shut up and go home. I said it before and I'll say it again. For some unknown reason science as never built a whirlpool and tested it. Aristotle threw himself in one because could not understand it is the only scientific experiment I have found yet in my research. :) I find it real hard to believe science has never built one and tested it before, but after years of searching and thousands of archived pages and numerous lists the story is still, no data found. And even stranger, hardly anyone sees the significance or even cares to find out. What a sad thing to have lost all curiosity. :( But that will not stop me! So how does this new concept of gravity repels light really work and what does it mean? Glad you asked! >WHIRLPOWER COSMOLOGY > > >Science has a concept of a Universe that begins and ends like life and >death. >They try to use the concept we call individual life and apply it to the >Universe. Most modern cosmologists accept there is an edge of the >Universe. We >hear it all the time on science shows and news reports. In my resarch >it seems >everyone accepts these things as facts. > >But the latest in space science paints a different picture. The old >edge, due >to the Hubble was not really and edge at all. As seen in previous >chapters >Stars are older than the Universe. I think we suffer from the same >delusions >our ancestors did seeing the Earth as flat or that the Sun goes around >the >Earth, as stated in the first chapter. We suffer from a huge case of >"maya". > >I propose the Universe is infinite and constantly recycles itself in a >very >simple mechanism that takes matter and transforms it to energy and then >transforms it back into matter. That energy and matter equalize and is >seen in >Einstein's equation E=mc2. > >The understanding of Whirlpower Cosmology comes by understanding what we >call a >"black hole" is really not a hole at all. Science says light can't >escape a >black hole because it has such a high pull of gravity. Science says >gravity >attract light. As seen in the first few chapters of Whirlpower Theory I >propose >gravity repels light just like gravity repels water vapor. The term for >this >action is solvation. > >If gravity does repel light, and I have proposed a simple way to prove >it, and a >black hole has emmense gravity, then a black hole must be keeping light >out not >pulling it in. And that is why it appears as black. And furthermore I >propose >it is not a hole at all but a misunderstood Star, the "Electron Star", >the >"Starseed", them most dense object in the Universe. > >Einstein thought gravity attracted light because of what is know as the >gravity >telescope. When light passes the edge of the Sun from background stars >it is >magnified one million times. This event has been studied for a long >time and it >is assumed the refraction seen is coming from the gravity of the Sun. >Again, >science is stuck in deep "maya", deep illusion, deep voodoo. Or I am, >we shall >see. :) > >Now we all know refraction, like in a prism, does not condense light. >It >scatters light. Why science thinks a measurement of refraction would be >the >cause of condensed light in the first place is just like what I state in >the >begining of Whirpower Theory. It is science's inability to recognize >that >gravity repels light that is at the root of the problem in physics. And >this >most basic misconception has thrown all of physics off. And this is the >main >reason we are getting the way off data, %90 off, just recently brought >to the >forefront of science by Vera Rubin and the so called 'mysterious dark >matter". >Whirlpower Theory predicted this before the data was collected. Dr. >Hawking >recently stated, "cosmosogy is not science if it can not predict the >data". > >Whirlpower predicted the data! > >The "Electron Star" is composed of densly packed electrons. Since >electrons are >negative in charge they will try to repel but due to the density being >greater >than space they form the gravity well. The placement of this well and >the >origin of placement may be the next great mystery. In forms of life a >seed is >planted. In the infinite universe the planting of the "Starseed" my >well be >done by the hand of God. > >A photon is matter raised to the vibration of the speed of light. The >matter is >an electron or possibly a pair of electrons. The raising of matter to >this >vibrational level that makes the photon is on one end of the cycle. The >slowing >of this vibration returning the electron to the state of matter is on >the other >end or the cycle. This slowing is accomplish as photons spin back into >matter >at the "Electron Star". The "speed of light" happens two ways. This >vibration >of photons hits photon against photon much like that toy of suspended >steel >balls in electricity, lightning, and the corona, and is similar to steam >where >molecule pushes molecule. But once seperate and in wave form gravity >takes over >an pull the more dense space beneath the less dense photon and repels >the photon >much like evaporation. Steam and evaporation are different. >Electricity and >lightspeed are different. They are composed of the same thing, >vibrating >electrons vibrating at the speed of light but the method of motion >changes >depending on the function of the wave induced by gravity trying to >balance the >scales of density. > >Science thinks the photon is pulled in to a "black hole" but actually it >is >caught in the frame dragging effect of the spin caused by the electrons >being >both pushed apart by like charge and pushed together by the gravity >well. The >is why we see a "hole" appear to spin. But it is not a hole that is >spinning, >it is the "Electron Star". And that spinning Star wobbles. And that >brings us >to Whirlpower. > >Light is literally spun into matter and more electrons are added to the >Star, >and the Star now able to gather more electrons, matter is spun from >light. A >real light weaver! The more dense the more spin the more wobble. A >perfect >Whirlpower gravity machine. Eventually the "Electron Star" gets large >enough to >attract larger although less dense protons, leading to the formation of >the >Proton Star and from there the Neutron Star. The baby star is growing >up. >Depending on how much mass it can get determines its place in >"Starworld" and >eventually the mass become large enough and the gravity increases the >pressure >enought it ignites the fusion burner. And the process starts all over >again. >Now matter is being transformed to energy again. > >The full circle system of Nature. May the circle be unbroken. May >mankind find >and understand this Wisdom given freely to us by the Infinite Creator >God before >we choke on the powers that pollute our world. > >In a more local picture we see the example of the Moon and the Earth. >As stated >science has seen the increased orbital radius as coming from the tides >but some >how they have for who knows how long thought the tides come from the >gravity of >the Moon! This again appears to be that old "maya" at work. In >Whirlpower >Cosmology the tides are caused by the axial rotational wobble or in >other words, >how much off dead center the axis of the Earth is off in one >revolution. Data >on this is very hard to get exact reading on as science seems not to >know >exactly how much this measuement is. I know someone must know but after >asking >lots of scientists the confirmed data answer has been elusive. I did >see a PBS >show about the poles and they said today the pole is here tomorrow the >pole will >be 12 miles over there. But they did not address exactly what that is >meant in >terms of "off dead center". I have a feeling some of that was ice >flow. If is >is that large off dead center that is a huge wobble! > >PBS also announced recently that the "New" vortex model announced in >just the >past few months shows this wobble is causing the ocean currents, the >wind, and >our weather patterns. I have been saying this for years but since I am >not a >scientist my announcements evidently do not reach those in science doing >this >kind of reseach. They also said the "New" vortex model what really a >"site to >behold". Obviously my work will go unnoticed if I can't breakthough to >the >mainstream or plagerizm of my work has already started to take place. >Since I >have not been able to get published, I kinda doubt this is the case. >But it is >possible. Science evidently does not allow outsiders or even students >to make >cosmological claims and are ofter plagerized or ignored. In this months >Discover Magazine there is a great article about how the "hot shots" >have stolen >information for years and pushed the little folks around. > >Probably ths most similar cosmology theory I have heard about was by Dr. >Fred L. >Whipple of Harvard in 1948. His "Dust Cloud Hypoththesis" matches up >whith >Whirlpower Cosmology in a number of places. He uses terms like cloudlet >to say >how space dust comes together to form a Star, instead of "Starseed". He >states >it is a on going procees in an Infinite Universe. I bet he got called a >lot of >names way back them. It would be interesting to talk to him if he were >still >alive. > >Another similar concept is the well know Chaos Theory. I see some >similarity >but it like Curt mentions in reference to the chaotic sense of the >vortex, this >is not what Whirlpower is about. Whirlpower is about how gravity >affects that >action, not he action itself, and how the affect of gravity effects the >area >around the vortex. Knowing the effect and the affect here critical. >Something >I am just starting to get the hang of. Many times I have said effect >when I >meant affect. Such a slight but important distinction. > >More later. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 00:15:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09437; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:10:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:10:38 -0700 From: Tgsleath aol.com Message-ID: <3439145d.2521c3eb aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:10:35 EDT Subject: Re: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"gx5IL3.0.NJ2.kd6yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30607 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/27/99 7:31:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, temalloy metro.lakes.com writes: << You've asked a question that I've been wondering about myself, I hope that yo will keep us posted! I heard that Scientific American had published an article about a trout moving through a stream being aided by vortex action. I guess that is where Schauengerger first noticed the effect. I looked, but was unable to find it. Thomas >> I heard that story too. And when Schauberger added some hot water a little upstream, the fish could no longer maintain station without swimming! I don't plan to experiment on trout, but I do intend to build a water vortex heat engine. If anyone has tried anything like this then please let me know. I don't like to waste my time and money! Preliminary Design Concept: Vertically oriented logarithmic inlet (trumpet shape) Leading into a long tapered vertical downpipe Leading into a constant section feedback pipe arranged to spiral up to the periphery of the inlet. Auxiliary pump circuit to start the vortex Ice box to maintain temperature (I'll aim for about 6 deg C) Copper construction where ever possiblle Thermocouples on tapered pipe to monitor temperatures With the vortex up to speed, the axial momentum at the drain should be more than enough to bring the water back up to the level of the inlet. Pipe resistance is minimized because of the ever-tightning (diameter shrinking) action of the vortex on semi-crystalized water. The water should drop in temperature towards 4 deg C as the experiment proceeds. This is the best I can come up at the moment. Suggestions for improvement are welcome. All information shared is/will be public domain. Trevor Sleath From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 04:45:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA03278; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:43:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:43:20 -0700 Message-ID: <00f701bf09ae$c293f860$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: Buoyancy or ZPE Exclusion? Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:40:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"8VGtn2.0.4p.OdAyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30608 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Did Archimedes (a Vortexian that bathed without a whirlpool) have it wrong? :-) With the International Balloon Fiestas coming up in Albuquerque N.M.,this weekend, I'm gonna pay closer attention to the Hot Air antics. Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 05:28:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA12256; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:28:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:28:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990928071825.007f7100 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:18:25 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Planck frequency - addenda In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Cf5K01.0.Q_2.MHByt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30609 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:45 PM 9/27/99 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: >Using the Plank frequency Fmax = 1.9E43 Hz value you provide as a means to >estimate the quantum of time we have: Why quantize EVERYTHING!? That strikes me as jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Scott Little EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-342-2185 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little eden.com http://www.eden.com/~little From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 05:40:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA18123; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:38:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:38:40 -0700 Message-ID: <010501bf09b6$7ccef8e0$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: ZPE and Hubble's Constant Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:35:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"2w4eD3.0.5R4.GRByt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30610 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Really Reaching: Since "Nature Abhors a Vacuum" and ZPE tends toward creating one, ZPE must be the driving force that is expanding the Universe??? Hubble's Law: v = H*d, where v is the recession velocity, H is Hubble's Constant; 60-70 kilometers per second per megaparsec, d is the distance of a Galaxy. Since the Material Universe is layed out like spots on the surface of an expanding balloon, ZPE "Pressure" must be isotropically expanding this Hubble Bubble. :-) Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 08:48:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21453; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:47:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:47:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37F0E3D3.4E52 ca-ois.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:50:43 -0700 From: Jim Ostrowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Traffic Court Experiments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HtoNd3.0.6F5.wBEyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30611 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vorts, This is an advertisment and invitation to join or monitor the discussion going on between Mitchell Jones and myself over on vortexb. Below is a snip from my most recent posting there "Traffic Court Experiments": Jim Ostrowski ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Schnurer wrote: > > Dear Jim, > > I would love to hear of some legal experiments! > Experiment # 1. Bring a small portable tape recorder to court. Place it on the podium in front of you in plain view of the judge. Activate it in record mode. Observe what happens then and report. Experiment # 2. If you are cited with a misdemeanor, such as drunk driving, arrive at the courtroom with 8 dollars in your pocket. When asked if you can afford an attorney, tell the judge you have 8 dollars. When asked if that means "no", tell him that you do not know how much an attorney is worth, or how much one costs. If he gives you an estimate of say, 100 dollars an hour, repeat that you only have 8 dollars and ask how much attorneys time will your procedure require. When you get your free attorney, ask him if he will let you run your own defense and be in charge of it, with him serving in an "advisory" capacity only. The attorney will bring you with him back into the courtroom and tell the judge about your request. The judge will proably inform you that you will not be allowed to have a free attorney unless you allow him to "reperesent" you. He will ask you if you want to "represent" yourself. Tell him that you are yourself therefore there is no need to represent yourself. Also say that you demand your constitutional right to "counsel". (6th Amendment) Observe what happens then and report. Experiment # 3 Find a cowboy hat and put it on your head. Walk into court with it on making sure you arrive early before the judge is seated. When the bailiff tells you to remove it, tell him that you only remove it when showering. When he demands that you do so or else leave the courtroom, tell him your name, case number, appointment time, and that you DID NOT FAIL TO APPEAR. Walk out of the courtroom and do not return. Phone the sheriff's office a few days later to find out if a warrant has been issued for your arrest. If one has, ask for the name of the baillif in charge of the courtroom on the day your appearance was scheduled. When you have a free day or two, surrender yourself to the sheriff, you will be locked up for a short time. When the matter of your failure to appear is at issue, call the bailiff as a witness. Ask for a court reporter to record these proceedings. Get a copy of the transcript. This transcript record will provide the basis for you to sue the bailiff OR the judge, for false imprisonment. Observe how much money you get and report. JO From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 08:51:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA23164; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:49:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:49:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37F0E4BC.5694A35B ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:54:37 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" Subject: Upcoming ACS Electrochemistry Session on October 8, 1999 Friday Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cEVHq2.0.of5.cEEyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30612 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: September 8, 1999 Vortex, On inquiry to Dr. Miles on the upcoming regional ACS meeting, I have received the following latest information on the presentations with permission to post on the Vortex: !. Aside from those already announced, there will be additional presentations made by Talbott Chubb, Russ George, Ben Bush, and Melvin Miles. These will be on Friday afternoon. 2. Randall Mills is going to insert his presentation earlier on Wednesday afternoon in a separately organized session. He did not want to be involved with "cold Fusion". Ah yes, we the "untouchables". : ) 3. The battery subject presentations that were included in the all day Friday electrochemistry session moved out to the Thursday afternoon session --- they did not want to be mixed in with "cold fusion". So much the better, I guess, for the added presentations. Registration is available for the ACS meeting but it is now at the site (Ontario, CA). -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 09:23:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA06254; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:21:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:21:35 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:27:52 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Planck frequency - addenda Resent-Message-ID: <"FROBa1.0.eX1.FiEyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30613 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:18 AM 9/28/99, Scott Little wrote: >At 09:45 PM 9/27/99 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote: > >>Using the Plank frequency Fmax = 1.9E43 Hz value you provide as a means to >>estimate the quantum of time we have: > >Why quantize EVERYTHING!? That strikes me as jumping from the frying pan >into the fire. If a physical value is quantized, then it is reasonable to think any fundamental values that comprize that value are quantized. Mathematically speaking, real numbers "infect" rational numbers and integers in calculations. If any constituents (independent variables) can assume all real values then the function value for any simple function (consisting of only addition and multiplication) must be real, not quantized. If any of mass, velocity, or distance is not quantized, how is it that momentum is quantized? Angular momentum is quantized (occurs in integer multiples of a quantum.) It is therefore logical to assume for a moment that mass, velocity and distance are then either (a) not fundamental physical values or (b) quantized, and see what consequences arize from that assumption. The discussion actually began with the assertion that and question of the fact that energy is quantized vs only "packetized." My initial assertion was that energy must be real because doppler shift affects the energy value of most every photon in what should be a "real" fashion. However, I now am thinking the assumption that the fundamental values are quantized may possibly create a meainingful theory with some surprizing results, especially implications for free energy, provided a few conceptual hurdles can be jumped, and provided my clerical mistakes are worked out. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 09:25:41 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA07483; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:23:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:23:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:23:56 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Subject: Re: Whirlpower Cosmology In-reply-to: <19990928063305.6815.qmail hotmail.com> X-Sender: kurtz imap2.asu.edu (Unverified) To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <199909281623.JAA16325 smtp.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PPT_H.0.nq1.4kEyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30614 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:32 PM 9/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >As seen in the first few chapters of Whirlpower Theory I >propose gravity repels light just like gravity repels water vapor. If gravity repels water vapor then why don't the clouds simply get repelled away into space? And what about low lying fog? --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 10:18:11 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA32309; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:17:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:17:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:21:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: How doe gravity repel vapor? Re: Whirlpower Cosmology (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IsmGS3.0.lu7.FWFyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30615 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo., About Whirlpower: How does gravity repel water vapor? Does gravity "repel" milk in a colloidal suspension of milk? Does gravity repel silica in a colloidal silica suspension? Are the mechanisms the same, if yes, why? If no, Why? J ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:23:56 -0700 From: Lynn Kurtz Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Whirlpower Cosmology Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:23:33 -0700 Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com At 11:32 PM 9/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >As seen in the first few chapters of Whirlpower Theory I >propose gravity repels light just like gravity repels water vapor. If gravity repels water vapor then why don't the clouds simply get repelled away into space? And what about low lying fog? --Lynn From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 10:45:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA11852; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:43:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:43:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37F100B4.8577647F ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:53:57 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Upcoming ACS Electrochemistry Session on October 8, 1999 Friday References: <37F0E4BC.5694A35B ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G3R0I.0.4v2.UvFyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30616 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Posting date should be read Sept. 28, 1999 -ak- Akira Kawasaki wrote: > September 8, 1999 > > Vortex, > > On inquiry to Dr. Miles on the upcoming regional ACS meeting, I have > received the following latest information on the presentations with > permission to post on the Vortex: > > !. Aside from those already announced, there will be additional > presentations made by Talbott Chubb, Russ George, Ben Bush, and Melvin > Miles. These will be on Friday afternoon. > 2. Randall Mills is going to insert his presentation earlier on > Wednesday afternoon in a separately organized session. He did not want > to be involved with "cold Fusion". Ah yes, we the "untouchables". : ) > 3. The battery subject presentations that were included in the all day > Friday electrochemistry session moved out to the Thursday afternoon > session --- they did not want to be mixed in with "cold fusion". So much > the better, I guess, for the added presentations. > > Registration is available for the ACS meeting but it is now at the site > (Ontario, CA). > > -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 10:57:26 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18201; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:56:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:56:13 -0700 X-Sender: hheffner mtaonline.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:03:24 -0800 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Planck frequency - addenda Resent-Message-ID: <"cYxkQ3.0.IS4.z4Gyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30617 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If memory serves me there is evidence from astronomical observations of single photons with a wavelength of about 20 m. This sets some upper bounds on the quanta of energy, momentum, and distance. {Qp} =< h/Wmax = h/(29 m) = 3.31x10^-35 kg m^2 s^-1 {Qe) =< c {Qp} = 9.9x10^-27 J {Qm} =< {Qp}/c = 1.10x10^-43 kg If we take Heisenberg: {Qe} {Qt} = h/(2 Pi) {Qt} = h/(2 Pi {Qe}) = 1.07x10^-8 s (way high) or from angular momentum: {Qd} = h/(2 Pi c {Qm}) = 3.18 m (way high) we see things aren't working out too well. Regards, Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 11:29:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA30435; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:25:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:25:54 -0700 Message-ID: <37F1160E.6F06 lafn.org> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:29:47 -0800 From: Jim Day X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VyJZw2.0.OR7.oWGyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30618 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Vorts, Jed Rothwell wrote, > It is wise to assume that the U.S. Government and the Pentagon could > not hide a marble in a mineshaft. At no time in U.S. history, even > at the height of WWII, has the U.S. ever been good at keeping secrets, > except the date and location of the Normandy invasion. The Russians > knew everything about us. The physicist Charles Townes, who had > nothing to do with the Manhattan project, knew that the U.S. was > building an atomic bomb. Security during the development of the first atomic bomb was less than perfect. Although janitors at nuclear facilities such as Oak Ridge were required to be illiterate, to prevent them from reading anything they might find in a wastebasket, there must have been a few leaks. Shortly after the plant was built, a lunch counter opened up across the street. It was named The Atomic Cafe. The government made them change the name. In March of 1944, Astounding Science Fiction magazine published Cleve Cartmill's story "Deadline," which dealt with an atomic bomb that used uranium-235 as the active ingredient. Federal agents questioned Cartmill and John W. Campbell, editor of Astounding, to learn where they got their information. Campbell told them that atomic bombs were nothing new in science fiction. H. G. Wells wrote about uranium atomic bombs as early as 1911. Perhaps the most irksome leak was a short article published in Reader's Digest long before bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That article spelled it out in plain language, making it quite clear that the United States was working on nuclear weapons for use against Japan. The FBI tried to confiscate all copies of that issue but was unable to round up all of them. Since I was a subscriber, my copy arrived in the mail. Of course, the Germans had their own nuclear project during World War II. For information about that see David Irving's book, The German Atomic Bomb (New York: Simon, 1967). Jim Day From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 11:52:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA08272; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:51:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:51:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990928145031.007ade10 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:50:31 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained In-Reply-To: <37F1160E.6F06 lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rcOoV.0.A12.3vGyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30619 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Day writes: >Security during the development of the first atomic bomb was less than >perfect. Although janitors at nuclear facilities such as Oak Ridge were >required to be illiterate, to prevent them from reading anything they >might find in a wastebasket Har, har. That's an open invitation to spies. They are *supposed* to act stupid. How can you tell whether someone really is illiterate or just faking it? During WWII my parents were stationed in the U.S. Embassy in Moscow. The Russian cleaning ladies pretended to be illiterate babuschka who did not understand a word of English, but it turned out they all spoke perfect English and they regularly sorted through the trash and picked up things like used typewriter ribbons. U.S. military and State Department installations were security sieves compared to British and Russian counterparts. The maps and charts in the code room, for example, were pasted up on a wall opposite a window which was clearly visible from the building across the street! >The FBI tried to confiscate all copies of that issue but was unable to >round up all of them. Since I was a subscriber, my copy arrived in the >mail. Do you still have it?!? I would like to read a copy. After the battle of Midway a Chicago newspaper reported that the U.S. had cracked the Japanese naval codes. U.S. security went through the roof. Fortunately, Japanese intelligence operatives in the U.S. did not read the midwest papers, apparently. Footnote: When I was growing up in Washington D.C. people said that the Japanese WWII intelligence headquarters was in an apartment building on the corner of Wisconsin and Cathedral Avenue, catty-corner to the cathedral. I do not know if that is true or not. They say the spies were never caught. That sounds true! Another Washington D.C. footnote: during the Cuban missile crisis, WWIII was prevented in a Chinese restaurant on Connecticut Avenue and Ordway streets, the Yen-Ching Palace. The menu there describes the story. U.S. and Russian negotiators met secretly at the restaurant at the height of the crisis. We used to eat there all the time, but we never prevented any wars. We ate there once with a British intelligence operative friend of mine in the middle '70s and a half dozen KGB people introduced themselves, so the place must have still been popular with spooks. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 12:25:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA19428; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:24:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:24:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: What IS the B-2 miracle? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990928145031.007ade10 pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Pf-oz1.0.Ul4.INHyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30620 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The header said 'er! Dear Vo., I obviously missed something. What miracle IS there about the B-2? What is the miracle, and what is elplained? Thanks, Confused, as usual, John From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 13:56:18 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA18485; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:55:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:55:07 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990928164419.0120c1e0 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:44:19 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained In-Reply-To: <37F1160E.6F06 lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"hNuCW.0.lW4.hiIyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30621 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:29 AM 9/28/99 -0800, Jim Day wrote: >Hello Vorts, > >Of course, the Germans had their own nuclear project during World War >II. For information about that see David Irving's book, The German Atomic >Bomb (New York: Simon, 1967). > >Jim Day In addition, the Japanese appear to have been working on muon fusion planes before muon fusion was considered in the West. Cold Fusion Times had two issues on this, such as in http://world.std.com/~mica/cft53.gif I have not seen other reporting on this form of cold fusion citing those original ideas. Great review Jim. Mitchell Swartz From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 14:46:03 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02092; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:43:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:43:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990928174238.0079a820 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:42:38 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: B-2 miracle explained In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990928145031.007ade10 pop.mindspring.com> References: <37F1160E.6F06 lafn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"UshYf.0.XW.UQJyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30622 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There was an OCR mistake in the quote from Townes I posted here. It should be: I had friends who went to the Los Alamos national laboratory in New Mexico. They dropped enough hints to let me know what the general state of progress was. Those people would have been in deep trouble if the security people had found out they were "dropping hints." I guess there were too many big-mouth scientists for security to keep up with. You can't keep a secret in an open society, even in wartime. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 15:30:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA11586; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:29:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:29:02 -0700 Message-ID: <19990928222900.32737.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.130] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Bubbles Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:28:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"mAyFh2.0.vq2.j4Kyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30623 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all! Maybe I can pull all this together for you. Understanding bubbles is key in the gravity paradigm and Aquarian thought. Lynn, the excited H20 molecule reaches bouancy threshold when the relative density comes to balance. It can't go any further up once it reaches a place where the densites come into balance. Thinking heat causes evaportion is part of the science fiction we were all taught but is simply not true. Gravity balances the scales of density. True it takes heat to fill a hot air balloon, for example, but the heat is not actually lifting the balloon. Gravity is pulling the more dense atmosphere beneath it. Same with a submarine. Same with bubbles. And the same thing happens with light. Light is less dense than space. I will disclose an even more simple ZPE devise. Much simpler than Whirlpower, not as powerful, and probably not real useful in a practical sense but excellent example of ZPE. And relates to the Archemedies. Kids do it. We all did it. Blew bubbles in our milk. Mom said stop it! Remember that sound. That rumble. The milk was boiling. Didn't take any heat. Now, a tank of water with a small compressor pumping water down into the tank through a tube, like blowing bubbles in milk, and surrounding the pipe an array of Archimedies Screws connected to generators. I predict will only take half the generators to pump the air and the other half will generate electricity. Archemedies needs no vortex. :) I have so much more work all this ready to go, somebody tell Bigelow. :) Before the nasties spoil it all. David Dennard "the hardest working man dreamland" http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 16:04:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA26999; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:01:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:01:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:01:33 -1000 Subject: Re: Bubbles From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909281901739.SM00231 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"iSfBm3.0.jb6.LZKyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30624 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: David writes that: > Light is less dense than space. It has energy and equivalent mass, and is apparently diverted towards gravitational sources. Your claim is clearly without basis in observable facts. > Now, a tank of water with a small compressor pumping water down into the > tank through a tube, like blowing bubbles in milk, and surrounding the pipe > an array of Archimedies Screws connected to generators. I predict will only > take half the generators to pump the air and the other half will generate > electricity. Archemedies needs no vortex. :) Again, wrong: it takes just as much energy to push bubbles into water at a given depth as you get back out from their rising from that depth, less friction and other losses. I understand you wish to believe otherwise, but if wishes were fishes, I'd be bodysurfing with the mermaids. Aloha. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 16:09:43 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA30182; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:07:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:07:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19990928230657.5304.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.19] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: [whirlpower] Hello Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:06:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"IpWMI.0.ON7.QeKyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30625 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Folks, now is the time. Let's make it happen! We may not get a second shot. I was also just informed a new list is being set up, by invitation only, by worldtrans. It looks like that will be the place to be. A few you already have my approval. A few you have some work to do. David >From: Neil Simmonds >Reply-To: whirlpower egroups.com >To: whirlpower egroups.com >Subject: [whirlpower] Hello >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:47:34 +0100 > >Hi David et al. > >Who am I ? >How did I get here ? >Hmmm. Well I'm still working on both of those questions but in the mean >time... > >I have found this list as a result of my continued search for some real >answers to some of life's questions. I believe we are all here to learn >and in turn to teach. I have an interest in science but I am not a >scientist. I think science is a bringing into consciousness of the >universe's subconscious behaviour, it is life's ability to describe what >is going on around it. >In this regard I am sympathetic to your 'God' aspect David. As science >has progressed with its discoveries it has striven to cut the unknown >'God' out of the equation. I have a feeling the truth is more like 'God >is the equation' that we are striving to describe. I will leave it at >that for ethereal matters for now - I am here to talk Whirlpower. > >My work has always been CAD. I've drawn, modelled, rendered, managed >and more recently coded (nothing really serious) all of which I enjoy. >My subject matter has varied greatly but I have a lot of experience in >services engineering which I think is an important aspect of my psyche. >I have had a feeling about 'power generation' and 'fluids' for a while >now. The stepping stones to get here have basically been *heaps of new >energy sites* - SVP (http://www.svpvril.com) - Dan Winter - Victor >Schauberger - Curt's site - YOU and I'm beginning to think along the >lines of 'power transfer' and 'waves'. > >I have read the list archive and checked out a number of the mentioned >sites. I've had a lot of simplistic ideas over the years and have been >following things I recognise from my own thoughts. So to see some of >them represented in things I never 'knew' about before is both >comforting and encouraging. I am intrigued with the simplicity of your >designs and would love to get more involved. > >I would say that although an understanding of all the 'concepts' is very >important to me I'm more of a builder type than a theoretical type. You >know searching, understanding, and then putting the knowledge to use. > >I currently live, breath and socialise in and around London, England. > >Keep up the good work David, it is inspirational. > >Neil > >PS. Having a bath will never be the same again. Eureka ! > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Special offer for eGroups Users: 100 Business Cards FREE! >Visit iPrint.com - The Internet iPrint Shop today to get >your set! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1025 > > >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/whirlpower >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 16:29:50 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA07467; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:26:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:26:09 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <8b151876.2522a88b aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:26:03 EDT Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"Jqs0W2.0.Vq1.HwKyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30626 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Last week, Fred Sparber posted information to the effect that fluorescein dye would reveal the presence of UV radiation. Fred, do you know what wavelengths fluorescein is sensitive to? More specifically, will it fluoresce in the presence of EUV light? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 17:25:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29549; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:23:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:23:02 -0700 Message-ID: <016801bf0a18$e08ea1c0$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Fluorescein spectral characteristics Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:19:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BF09DE.0EBCB0E0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"htu3G1.0.cD7.clLyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30627 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BF09DE.0EBCB0E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01BF09DE.0EBCB0E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01BF09DE.0EBCB0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fluorescein spectral characteristics Fluorescein The excitation spectrum and emission spectra (bold line) are shown for = Fluorescein (FITC). The red-shaded region represents the bandpass filter = commonly used to measure FITC fluorescence. On most flow cytometers, = FITC is excited by an argon laser (tuned to 488 nm) .=20 Compare the FITC fluorescence spectra to spectra for several FACS = immunofluorescence dyes.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01BF09DE.0EBCB0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fluorescein spectral characteristics
 

Fluorescein

The excitation spectrum and emission spectra (bold line) are shown = for=20 Fluorescein (FITC). The red-shaded region represents the bandpass filter = commonly used to measure FITC fluorescence. On most flow cytometers, = FITC is=20 excited by an argon laser (tuned to 488 nm)
.
Compare the FITC=20 fluorescence spectra to spectra for several = FACS=20 immunofluorescence dyes.

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Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:34:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:34:02 -0700 Message-ID: <017401bf0a1a$657d4840$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <8b151876.2522a88b aol.com> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:31:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"4L5lB2.0.Z91.wvLyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30628 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 4:26 PM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye Tom Stolper wrote: > Last week, Fred Sparber posted information to the effect that fluorescein dye > would reveal the presence of UV radiation. > > Fred, do you know what wavelengths fluorescein is sensitive to? More > specifically, will it fluoresce in the presence of EUV light? I don't know, Tom. The EUV is out to > 60.00 ev then into soft x-rays, but, based on the way phosphors behave, I don't see why not. Regards, Frederick > > Tom Stolper > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 18:03:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17732; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:01:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:01:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:05:25 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye In-Reply-To: <8b151876.2522a88b aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"OeleY2.0.zK4.CJMyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30629 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., There are several variations of flourescene and other WL shifting compounds. They all hvae different excitation and re emission WL. Many can be destroyed by EUV. Many types will re emit from some given threshold WL and beyond NOTE ... WL= wave length. EUV meaning Extreme UV, correct? Beyond, shorted than 190nano Meters? 190nm ... and shorter will kill many organics. If you can give me an idea of conditions, ie heat,pressure, solvent, vacuum, I can suggest a suiable material. IN General: EUV does not penetrate AIR... depending on whose definition of WL for EUV.... This means you might be operating in vacuum, in which case an organic like flourescene is NOT a grand idea and an inorganic is. Zinc sulphide is a not-too-bad choice. You can get it from old dead oscilloscope tube. CAUTION VACUUM TUBE CAN IMPLODE WITH A LOT OF DAMAGE TO HUMANS, PETS AND OTHER 1] CAREFULLY remove cap and pins at beck of tube, wrap in HEAVY canvas, break the small end of the fill tube and destroy the vacuum. 2] THEN crack the tube and scrape off some of the phosphor. 3] An acceptable phosphor can be had from many CRT, color of B and W ... color best bet. Flourescent tubes are hit or miss, some of the phosphores do not excite beyond the ~ 254 mercury line. On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 Tstolper aol.com wrote: > Last week, Fred Sparber posted information to the effect that fluorescein dye > would reveal the presence of UV radiation. > > Fred, do you know what wavelengths fluorescein is sensitive to? More > specifically, will it fluoresce in the presence of EUV light? > > Tom Stolper > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 18:16:20 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23562; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:13:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:13:34 -0700 Message-ID: <018b01bf0a1f$d99a5f60$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater, Fluorescein Dye Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:09:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF09E4.FEE0C4C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"6bNrT.0.4m5.-UMyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30630 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF09E4.FEE0C4C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Might be some info available here, Tom. I would think that a EUV photon turned loose in water would create enough 254 - 400+ nanometer photons to excite the Fluorescein, if as John Schnurer says, it didn't destroy it first. :-) Regards, Frederick http://www.luxel.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF09E4.FEE0C4C0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="LUXEL CORPORATION, manufacturer of ultra-thin foils for EUV and soft X-ray research.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="LUXEL CORPORATION, manufacturer of ultra-thin foils for EUV and soft X-ray research.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.luxel.com/ [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.luxel.com/ Modified=405A0C061F0ABF0195 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BF09E4.FEE0C4C0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 19:21:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20583; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:18:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:18:58 -0700 Message-ID: <01b001bf0a29$0fa260e0$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater, Fluorescein Dye Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:16:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF09EE.5C42A080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"kLWbN1.0.X15.ISNyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30631 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF09EE.5C42A080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Electronic Space Products International (ESPI) stocks a broad range of Phosphors and fluorescent "Tagging Dyes. http://espi-metals.com/index.html I have their catalog, and have bought materials from them. Regards, Frederick ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF09EE.5C42A080 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ESPI Specialists in High Purity Metals, Alloys & Compounds.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ESPI Specialists in High Purity Metals, Alloys & Compounds.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://espi-metals.com/index.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://espi-metals.com/index.html Modified=C0E85423280ABF0111 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF09EE.5C42A080-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 19:30:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24747; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:27:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:27:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:32:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer Reply-To: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: Re: Bubbles In-Reply-To: <19990928222900.32737.qmail hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zjYVl.0.W26.laNyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30632 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am clearly having some difficulty coming to grips and understanding some of the basic, key aspects of Whirlpower. I am hoping you will please entertain some basic questions about a nearly universal substance, water, and, further, a nearly universal variety of energetic aspect of our environment, light. Some questions, please: #1-Q: Bouyancy of excited H2O .... the H2O molecules rise when: "the excited H20 molecule reaches bouancy [sic]threshold when the relative density comes to balance." Correct? 1a] Into balance by or of weight? #2-Q: Into Balance with respect to What? Air? #3-Q: Does this mean a non excited H2O molecule is heavier than air? #4-Q: An excited H2O molecule is ... or can be .. lighter than air? 4a-Q: Does it matter if the air is warm or cool? 4b-Q: Does it matter how much water vapor is in the air? 4c-Q: Does air pressure matter? 4c-Q: If there is wind, does air velocity matter? #5-Q: How do we excite the H2O? #6-Q: What is heat? What causes heat? #7-Q: Q-7 is a set of questions to help us to understand the behavior of water. I hope you will also please take the time to relate the answers to their equivalency with or for light, if there is one. If I have mistaken an equivalency, I apologize and stand corrected. Thanks. >From letter .... " Thinking heat causes evaportion is part of the science fiction we were all taught but is simply not true." Q 7a] When water is liquid what force or forces, or condition or conditions cause it to remain a liquid? Q 7b] Again, about water.... what force or forces cause water to become ice? Q 7c] If heat is not responsible for evaporation what is happening when we put fire under pot of water? Q 7d] What is happening to an egg, in water, if we put a fire under it? Q 7e] Is there ANY correlation between vaporized water and light? Q 7f] Is there ANY connection between gravity, light and water? Q-8] What is the relationship between hot air and helium? Both will rise or "lift". Q-9] What are the respective properties of Water Water Vapor Warm Air Cool Air Air Pressure Helium Wind and Wind Velocity Light Gravity From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 19:33:55 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA26827; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:31:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:31:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:35:57 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: David Dennard cc: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: [whirlpower] Hello In-Reply-To: <19990928230657.5304.qmail hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PLSEz.0.5Z6.5eNyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30633 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is world trans? Who is Bigelow? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 19:35:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA28093; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:33:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:33:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:37:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fluorescein spectral characteristics In-Reply-To: <016801bf0a18$e08ea1c0$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"J1Ib-.0.ns6.SfNyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30634 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is the reason for using immuno-dyes? On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Frederick Sparber wrote: [NON-Text Body part not included] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 21:19:42 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA04392; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:18:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:18:20 -0700 Message-ID: <19990929041819.97789.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.17] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bubbles Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:18:16 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"32eC93.0.Y41.BCPyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30635 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick says in reply to my saying: > > Light is less dense than space. > >It has energy and equivalent mass, and is apparently diverted towards >gravitational sources. Your claim is clearly without basis in observable >facts. Hi Rick, I've been wondering when you were going to speak up. You must have deleted "The Curve". It cleary shows the observable fact that the measurement Einstein predicted of 1.75 has never been met. And he said it had to meet it exactly for his theory to be correct. If don't know what I am talking about just say so and I will explain Einstein's theory so you can understand it. Light is not apparently diverted towards gravitational sources. The candle flame experiment on the shuttle is a very clear example of how light is repelled by gravity. > > > Now, a tank of water with a small compressor pumping water down into the > > tank through a tube, like blowing bubbles in milk, and surrounding the >pipe > > an array of Archimedies Screws connected to generators. I predict will >only > > take half the generators to pump the air and the other half will >generate > > electricity. Archemedies needs no vortex. :) > >Again, wrong: it takes just as much energy to push bubbles into water at a >given depth as you get back out from their rising from that depth, less >friction and other losses. Show me the data of a test like I describe and I will conceed. Otherwise you are just making stuff up. Surely you can cite a test that backs your point where air is pumped into a tank of water and the affect has been measured. If not, I suggest the experiment be tried. Archemedies Screw is the best way to take the measurment due to the verticle posistion. That's real science! Theorists propose, scientists dispose. Not theorists propose, theorists dispose. At least that is the way the way they taught it to me when I was back in college. This is the exact same kind of talk that I used to get about the whirlpool. A simple test. That is what science is about, or should be. Not "know it alls" that put down new thought with science fiction dogma. It is so obvious now that Firmage has stated the big bang theory is science fiction. And it should be obvious to everyone on this list especially those who were here when I came by for my visit last year. I understand you wish to believe otherwise, but >if wishes were fishes, I'd be bodysurfing with the mermaids. Aloha. Ha! Watch out, you just might get your wish. :) David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 21:28:36 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA06963; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:27:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:27:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199909290427.AAA07761 fh105.infi.net> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: Subject: Re: Bubbles Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:22:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xomHM1.0.ii1.UKPyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30636 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Light is not apparently diverted towards gravitational > sources. The candle flame experiment on the shuttle is a very clear > example of how light is repelled by gravity. How do you then explain how we can see a star on the other side of the sun? Or the distortion of distant galaxies by foreground galaxies? Or frame dragging? Space acts like a semi-fluid, flexible and distortable. How do you refute so much measurement which confirms space time warping by mass? --Kyle R. Mcallister From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 22:04:40 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA13520; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990929045311.26705.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.30] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bubbles Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:53:09 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"7AjyU2.0.5J3._pPyt" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30637 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle asks: >How do you then explain how we can see a star on the other side of the sun? That is what the 1.75 is about. Did your read "The Curve". >Or the distortion of distant galaxies by foreground galaxies? Same thing. The Einstein rings are made by slipstream effect by the repulsion of gravity. Or frame >dragging? Frame dragging is actually Whirlpower as shown in "Whirlpower Cosmology". The part science has yet to recognize is that "frame dragging" is due to the axial rotatonal wobble not the spin. But the data from the Rossi clearly shows the wobble. And in Stella"s observations the so called "blobs" are clearly defined. These same "blobs" are clearly seen in the hurricane. If we see another one this season watch for them coming out from the the eye wall as it drags the hurricane. Watch for the acceleration in the NE quadrant. Woosh! Space acts like a semi-fluid, flexible and distortable. How do >you refute so much measurement which confirms space time warping by mass? Now we a getting somewhere. Space is fuild, not a void, as Einstein's concepts were based. That is why light is less dense than space. Good questions Kyle. David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 22:12:14 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA23376; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:10:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:10:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:15:11 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bubbles In-Reply-To: <199909290427.AAA07761 fh105.infi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sgxa92.0.6j5.IzPyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30638 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > > Light is not apparently diverted towards gravitational > > sources. The candle flame experiment on the shuttle is a very clear > > example of how light is repelled by gravity. Q: What is the "candle flame experiment" Are flame and light the same thing? > > How do you then explain how we can see a star on the other side of the sun? > Or the distortion of distant galaxies by foreground galaxies? Or frame > dragging? Space acts like a semi-fluid, flexible and distortable. How do > you refute so much measurement which confirms space time warping by mass? > If light is repelled by gravity, then what happens with time ... does it slow down with more gravity? > --Kyle R. Mcallister > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 22:51:08 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA00437; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:49:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:49:54 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:49:47 EDT Subject: Re: Bubbles To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"shm2x1.0.l6.2YQyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30639 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/28/99 4:00:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daviddennard hotmail.com writes: > Gravity balances the scales of density. True it takes heat to fill a hot > air balloon, for example, but the heat is not actually lifting the balloon. > > Gravity is pulling the more dense atmosphere beneath it. Same with a > submarine. Same with bubbles. And the same thing happens with light. > Hmm...so gravity is pulling more dense air beneath [the balloon?]it. So I should feel air rising under the balloon if I get your drift. So could you explain when I was in a hot air balloon at a steady altitude of 2000 feet AGL there was NO air movement up,down or for that matter ANY direction relative to the balloon. You could have held a lit candle in your hand and it would have burned without a flicker. However while the balloon was acending there was a definite flow of air...DOWNWARDS, and while decending, a flow UPWARDS, in both these cases, relative to the balloon. Could you explain to me in simple terms why my observations seem to contradict what you stated: "...but the heat is not actually lifting the balloon. Gravity is pulling the more dense atmosphere beneath it. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Sep 28 23:32:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA12670; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:31:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:31:37 -0700 Message-ID: <19990929063136.28616.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.115] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bubbles Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:31:32 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"-ThpE.0.u53.89Ryt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30640 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John (for sure) writes: :) > I am clearly having some difficulty coming to grips and >understanding some of the basic, key aspects of Whirlpower. I am hoping >you will please entertain some basic questions about a nearly universal >substance, water, and, further, a nearly universal variety of energetic >aspect of our environment, light. I will do my best. And your question is as well stated as I have ever seen. These are such basic universal foundation concepts that an error in the foundation is not acceptable. Hawking said recently in an article in Discover Magazine that science does not understand the basic fundamentals and wrote to me about it. May I say I am honored he would say something to me after all the negative comments that could ever be said to someone and all the filth that has been thrown my way. And I greatly respect his truth and non egotist approach since he has been THE voice of authority. And may I say to Firmage if he ever gets these words, I greatly respect your finally coming clean about about the truth. And may I ask that this list refrain from throwing any more science fiction dogma in my face. Get over it. Like Vera Rubin states, "science is going to have to give up its most precious beliefs". And that scientists are going to go "kicking and screaming" into the next century. This list can become foundation of Aquarius. Some of the world's brightest minds are on this list. Let's use them and change the world. That's my sermon and for now I am very tired. It has been one of my longest days and dreamland calls. More tomorrow. David > > Some questions, please: > > #1-Q: Bouyancy of excited H2O .... the H2O molecules rise when: > >"the excited H20 molecule reaches bouancy [sic]threshold when the relative >density comes to balance." Correct? > > 1a] Into balance by or of weight? > > #2-Q: Into Balance with respect to What? Air? > > #3-Q: Does this mean a non excited H2O molecule is heavier than > air? > #4-Q: An excited H2O molecule is ... or can be .. lighter than > air? > 4a-Q: Does it matter if the air is warm or cool? > 4b-Q: Does it matter how much water vapor is in the air? > 4c-Q: Does air pressure matter? > 4c-Q: If there is wind, does air velocity matter? > > #5-Q: How do we excite the H2O? > #6-Q: What is heat? What causes heat? > #7-Q: Q-7 is a set of questions to help us to understand the >behavior of water. I hope you will also please take the time to relate >the answers to their equivalency with or for light, if there is one. >If I have mistaken an equivalency, I apologize and stand corrected. >Thanks. > >From letter .... > > " Thinking heat causes evaportion is part of the science fiction >we were all taught but is simply not true." > > Q 7a] When water is liquid what force or forces, or condition or >conditions cause it to remain a liquid? > Q 7b] Again, about water.... what force or forces cause water to >become ice? > Q 7c] If heat is not responsible for evaporation what is happening >when we put fire under pot of water? > Q 7d] What is happening to an egg, in water, if we put a fire >under it? > Q 7e] Is there ANY correlation between vaporized water and >light? > Q 7f] Is there ANY connection between gravity, light and water? > > Q-8] What is the relationship between hot air and helium? Both >will rise or "lift". > Q-9] What are the respective properties of > > Water > Water Vapor > Warm Air > Cool Air > Air Pressure > Helium > Wind and Wind Velocity > Light > Gravity > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 02:41:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA03393; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:38:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:38:49 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:38:45 -1000 Subject: Re: Bubbles From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909290538536.SM00231 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"y5JI21.0.xq.fuTyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30641 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: David writes: > Light is not apparently diverted towards gravitational > sources. Of course it is. I might even dispute the *reason* it does with those who take the view of "curved spacetime", but it does. You may of course deny that it does, the degree to which it does, or anything else you want. And of course you will because it serves to fulfill your simple need here, of which I am well aware from having witnessed your behavior here before. The rest of your meanderings are not worth responding to, because all you really want here is attention, and I'm completely uninspired to give you any more. Bye. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 04:37:07 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA15617; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:35:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:35:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:35:07 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: "phys-l lists.nau.edu: Forum for Physics Educators" cc: sciclub-list eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Leap In-Reply-To: <0FIT00A07I44T4 mailgate.nau.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oBTuy1.0.np3.jbVyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30642 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, John Cooper wrote: > Originally the emphasis of 'quantum jump' was on 'jump', the > discontinuity in available values of the energy. Speaking of which... I got involved in a late night gab-fest with Dan Y., a local electrical engineer, regarding the modeling of atoms as electrically short dipole resonator/antennas. It's a classical/waves atomic model, in other words. He pointed out that if the "Q" of an atom is high, then the time constant is long, and it takes far longer for the atom to accumulate energy from the EM fields of the light waves. If the "Q" of the atom is infinite, then it cannot accumulate energy at all. Huh. When an atom intercepts a quantum of light, apparantly it does *not* specifically behave as a classical resonator (well, at least the "Q" of the capacitor/inductor could not be huge!) Perhaps there is a connection between infinite "Q" and the need for "quantum leaps." Or, when a macroscopic resonator is going into exponential growth as it intercepts energy via the "Energy Sucking Antenna" process, perhaps the infinite "Q" of the RLC circuit impacts the speed of such growth. BILL'S CRACKPOT THEORY: ENERGY-SUCKING ELECTRODYNAMICS http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/sukdynam.html ENERGY-SUCKING ANTENNAS http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 05:26:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA25428; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:25:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:25:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:25:29 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device In-Reply-To: <37F0336A.1E7216B6 ro.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"z22eg3.0.ED6.zKWyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30643 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Patrick V. Reavis wrote: > The greatest lies we will tell are to ourselves..... > Dime-store philosophy-101 And if we bad-mouth it and dismiss it, we do so at our peril. If we don't take self-lies seriously, and if they *are* powerful, then they will infest our lives unnoticed. Ignoring the issue of self-lies will damage the minds' "immune system". It's like refusing to use anti-virus software. In my experience, it takes quite a bit of effort to constantly beat down the self-lies. Back before I knew about this stuff, I lied to myself constantly in order to gain comfort and to support my self image. What still stuns me is that I had no idea that I was doing this. I was convinced that I was a fairly truthful person. Only after becoming "sensitized" to the issue was I able to see just how much I lied to myself every day. If I were to say: "Well, *I* know that I don't lie to myself," I see it as equivalent to saying: "Well *I* could never get VD." It can't happen here. If I was utterly convinced that I had no problem, then I would be blind to its existence, and have little defense against contracting the illness. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-781-3320 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 08:14:57 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA19694; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:12:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:12:42 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01bf0a95$2962aa00$c5441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Brookhaven Experiment Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:09:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0A5A.5B645660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"H8XdM3.0.Wp4.fnYyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30644 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0A5A.5B645660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody_current.html ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0A5A.5B645660 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="ABCNEWS.com Fred Moody Black Holes Revisited.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ABCNEWS.com Fred Moody Black Holes Revisited.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody_current.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody_current.html Modified=A01D7FEA940ABF0184 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0A5A.5B645660-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 10:39:34 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA25871; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:35:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:35:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: William Beaty cc: Vortex Subject: [antigrav] Re: Vortex Thruster at the University of Houston (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zQHCt.0.9K6.Vtayt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30645 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: the URL of the Vortex Thruster page is http://www.ifdt.uh.edu/vtc/vortexthruster/main.html But I noticed that the server is down. VTC stands for Vortex Technology From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 11:05:37 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04206; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:59:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:59:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990929135644.00799550 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:56:44 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Test degree sign Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id KAA04188 Resent-Message-ID: <"KiEvs1.0.e11.uDbyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30646 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 74.2°C. This is test. This is only a test. If this was a real degree sign, you would be pretty darn hot! - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 11:08:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA07293; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:05:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:05:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990929140419.0079a7c0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:04:19 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Brookhaven Experiment In-Reply-To: <004a01bf0a95$2962aa00$c5441d26 fjsparber> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ENIA32.0.sn1.nJbyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30647 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody_current.html That is a cute illustration at the top of article. The reporter's experience with haughty scientists sounds true to form. I think these people at Brookhaven are being irresponsible. If there is even the slightest chance this test could result in a catastrophe, they need to stop and review the situation carefully, in consultation with the entire scientific community. They should do this in public via Internet. Then, after everyone nods assurance, they can proceed with perfect confidence to blow up the world. (Or implode it, I guess.) - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 11:32:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA17785; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:28:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:28:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990929142710.00797780 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:27:10 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com, BDelloRusso@infinite-energy.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Cold fusion textbook coming soon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"PDPyE2.0.kL4.Bfbyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30648 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mizuno tells me that he and several other leading Japanese CF scientists have written a textbook on cold fusion which will be published this fall. I think he said it is 400 pages long. That's a little too much for me to translate! There have several collections of papers published in English and Japanese, especially from the ICCF conferences, but as far as I know this is the first organized, multi-author textbook on the subject. I look forward to seeing it. He also said that Zhao visited him recently, bringing a new 4 liter capacity Dewar cell. They tested it and observed 140% of input for the entire run (including the warm-up period). Mizuno is connecting two power supplies in series to boost voltage up to 400 V. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 12:34:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA11210; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:31:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:31:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990929143011.00f75b10 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:30:11 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Boscoli Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"rcfvF3.0.4l2.4acyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30649 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, The brand new issue of IE (Vol 5 #27) contains a really exciting collection of articles by and about Renzo Boscoli's unique nuclear fusion experiments. By my calculations, Boscoli has apparently succeeded in raising the low-energy D-D fusion cross section by a factor of some 400 million! I obtained this figure by comparing Boscoli's claim of 1000% 'over-unity' heat production to the measured D-D reaction rate at low energies from "Low Energy Yield of D(D,p)H3 and the Angular Distribution of the Emitter Protons", Bretscher, French, & Seidl, Phys. Rev. 73, 8, p. 815 1948. Obviously, I'm guessing about what's going on in Boscoli's process so this should be taken merely as an indication of how fantastic his results are. A World Patent WO 98/43249 A1 has been issued to Boscoli (and David Cappelletti). It gives a pretty good description of the apparatus, which is a low energy deuteron accelerator, and the unique targets, which are composed of mixtures of metal salts in which the water of hydration has been replaced with heavy water (e.g. CuSO4+5D2O). It doesn't give a detailed operating protocol or details of the over-unity power measurements. Thanks to Gene Mallove et al for reporting this experiment. Naturally, EarthTech is interested in attempting a replication. Coincidentally, I have been planning to build a low-energy particle accelerator for some time. I was intending to explore some of the phenomena reported by Kasagi at ICCF-7. With a little more input about Boscoli's experiment, this project will shift into high gear! If anybody has or can get additional details of the Boscoli experimental protocol, please post them or send them my way. Thanks. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 13:37:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA21163; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:32:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:32:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:22:39 -1000 Subject: Re: Boscoli From: "Rick Monteverde" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199909291632521.SM00351 [192.168.0.2]> Resent-Message-ID: <"5VP7w1.0.aA5.bTdyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30651 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott - > Thanks to Gene Mallove et al for reporting this experiment. Naturally, > EarthTech is interested in attempting a replication. Yes, thanks to Gene and all for that and another killer issue of IE. If your replication attempt doesn't work out, maybe an expedition to the core of the sun could be arranged. Sounds like a 'cool' place to visit. I don't think I've ever seen a stranger solar model by anyone who wasn't also claiming it's inhabited by faeries and elves, and he even has some extraordinary experimental claims to lend it some credence. Made me wonder for a moment about the earth's interior too. I find it hard to believe that the sun is a big spherical Hilsch(sp?) vortex machine. And wasn't there to be something like full disclosure sometime in late September? It's pretty late... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 13:40:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA20156; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:31:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:31:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990929162947.007a31a0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:29:47 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Boscoli In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990929143011.00f75b10 mail.eden.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"C3rc41.0.sw4.9Sdyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30650 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As described in the article, that can be found at: http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/ Search: 9843249 Select collection: WIPO PCT Publications (What do you suppose a womplex is? Some kind of wombat?) - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 14:16:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18724; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:09:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:09:45 -0700 Message-ID: <37F2807D.708A2224 bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:11:25 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: WOMplex References: <3.0.6.32.19990929162947.007a31a0 pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0l9mt.0.Qa4.P0eyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30652 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > > As described in the article, that can be found at: > > http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/ > > Search: 9843249 > > Select collection: WIPO PCT Publications > > (What do you suppose a womplex is? Some kind of wombat?) > > - Jed From: http://www.networking.ibm.com/nnn/nnn3wom.htm What's a WOMplex? As Web sites become larger, creating and managing tens of thousands of individual files quickly becomes unworkable. Imagine that your company has thousands of documents on the Web. On a Web server, these documents are individual files, linked in a sort of branched tree, that goes on and on and on. What if some of those pages contain product prices and the prices change? Worse yet, what if your company changes its logo or the name of a division? Until recently your only choice was to manually go back and update very individual Web page that was affected--and hope you didn't miss any! It would be much better to construct pages, as much as possible, from reusable parts called objects. Items that appear many times--such as your company logo, page headers, charts, and even the little pointers at the bottom that enable customers to search your site, go back to the main page, and so on--should be defined once and stored as objects. Then when you update an object, every document that uses that object will reflect the change. Web site management suddenly becomes much simpler. Another use of objects is to create Web pages on-the-fly, which are customized to display information in the best way for the browser being used. This is the heart of the Web Object Management concept. But there is more to the WOM concept than simply how content is displayed. With the advent of "smart data," which is tagged with identifying characteristics, the content itself can be dynamically constructed to match individual areas of interest. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 14:51:59 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18633; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:46:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:46:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990929174516.007a5550 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:45:16 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC Keeping pace with the progress of the world Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"46AA-3.0.1Z4._Yeyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30653 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That phrase will have a grim resonance to people familiar with Japanese history. It is a quote from the WWII Imperial Surrender Rediscript. The Emperor instructed the people to "keep pace with the progress of the world." They did; they still do. You can see an example in the home page of my home-away-from-home: http://www.total.co.jp/town-kuka and http://www.total.co.jp/town-kuka/kyoukuka.htm . . . which shows damage from the typhoon which blew though last week. You cannot display the text, but I think you can click on the 9/28 box at the top to see the photos. The photo for 9/19 shows an Internet Multimedia fair. This is in a little town on an island smack dab in the middle of nowhere. I doubt there was a computer or a fax machine in the town 20 years ago. The bank teller and the postal clerk used an abacus. There was no dial telephone service until 1968. You see the same kind of technology in little towns in China, Mexico, Peru, India, you-name-it. Nowadays, they not only see television and automobiles, they see everything. They go everywhere -- via Internet. To a person who has experienced life in the countryside in Japan or even Adams County, PA, this is mind-boggling. The Internet is technically unexciting, but the social impact may indeed turn out to be as large as that of the automobile. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 16:10:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA00349; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:01:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: <19990929230112.24539.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.15] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bubbles Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:01:10 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Y-YNL3.0.r4.zefyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30654 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince writes: >Hmm...so gravity is pulling more dense air beneath [the balloon?]it. So I >should feel air rising under the balloon if I get your drift. So could you >explain when I was in a hot air balloon at a steady altitude of 2000 feet >AGL >there was NO air movement up,down or for that matter ANY direction relative >to the balloon. Sounds right to me. When the balloon is at its buoyancy threshold there would be not air movement as it floats You could have held a lit candle in your hand and it would >have burned without a flicker. > However while the balloon was acending there was a definite flow of >air...DOWNWARDS, and while decending, a flow UPWARDS, in both these cases, >relative to the balloon. Could you explain to me in simple terms why my >observations seem to contradict what you stated: I see no contradiction. As the balloon goes up surely the air will be going down around the balloon, thus the lift. Your statements to me say exactly what I am saying. I am surprised you do not see it the same way but I greatly appreciate your first hand observations. Thank you, David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 16:18:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA06516; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:15:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:15:10 -0700 Message-ID: <19990929231451.63250.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.251.15] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:14:50 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3Cxp.0.ib1.zrfyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30655 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William writes: >If I were to say: "Well, *I* know that I don't lie to myself," I see it as >equivalent to saying: "Well *I* could never get VD." It can't happen >here. If I was utterly convinced that I had no problem, then I would be >blind to its existence, and have little defense against contracting the >illness. Hi William, Great words of wisdom! I have found the same technique useful in my research. When something is exactly wrong it often points to something that is exactly right. Ignorance and fear are really worst enemies. It works much like a compass. If you want to go south you need a compass to point to north. And all the other degrees fit right in as well. I really don't mind when people bad mouth me it only shows where the real truth is. Obviously! :) David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 16:57:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA18944; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:51:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:51:35 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:56:04 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: Questions? about ... Bubbles (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fzVl3.0.vd4.7Ogyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30656 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re Send part of this John (for sure) writes: :) > I am clearly having some difficulty coming to grips and >understanding some of the basic, key aspects of Whirlpower. I am hoping >you will please entertain some basic questions about a nearly universal >substance, water, and, further, a nearly universal variety of energetic >aspect of our environment, light. I will do my best. And your question is as well stated as I have ever seen. These are such basic universal foundation concepts that an error in the foundation is not acceptable. .........days and dreamland calls. More tomorrow. David > Some questions, please: > > #1-Q: Bouyancy of excited H2O .... the H2O molecules rise when: > >"the excited H20 molecule reaches bouancy [sic]threshold when the relative >density comes to balance." Correct? > > 1a] Into balance by or of weight? > > #2-Q: Into Balance with respect to What? Air? > > #3-Q: Does this mean a non excited H2O molecule is heavier than > air? > #4-Q: An excited H2O molecule is ... or can be .. lighter than > air? > 4a-Q: Does it matter if the air is warm or cool? > 4b-Q: Does it matter how much water vapor is in the air? > 4c-Q: Does air pressure matter? > 4c-Q: If there is wind, does air velocity matter? > > #5-Q: How do we excite the H2O? > #6-Q: What is heat? What causes heat? > #7-Q: Q-7 is a set of questions to help us to understand the >behavior of water. I hope you will also please take the time to relate >the answers to their equivalency with or for light, if there is one. >If I have mistaken an equivalency, I apologize and stand corrected. >Thanks. > >From letter .... > > " Thinking heat causes evaportion is part of the science fiction >we were all taught but is simply not true." > > Q 7a] When water is liquid what force or forces, or condition or >conditions cause it to remain a liquid? > Q 7b] Again, about water.... what force or forces cause water to >become ice? > Q 7c] If heat is not responsible for evaporation what is happening >when we put fire under pot of water? > Q 7d] What is happening to an egg, in water, if we put a fire >under it? > Q 7e] Is there ANY correlation between vaporized water and >light? > Q 7f] Is there ANY connection between gravity, light and water? > > Q-8] What is the relationship between hot air and helium? Both >will rise or "lift". > Q-9] What are the respective properties of > > Water > Water Vapor > Warm Air > Cool Air > Air Pressure > Helium > Wind and Wind Velocity > Light > Gravity > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 17:00:33 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20817; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:55:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:55:53 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <54a60460.25240106 aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:55:50 EDT Subject: Mills at ACS Meeting? To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"LA5tw2.0.B55.9Sgyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30657 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira, What's this about Randell Mills giving a presentation on Wednesday, October 6? I still don't see his name on the program. Am I looking in the wrong place? (And by the way, his first name is Randell, not Randall.) Mike Carrell, do you know anything about this? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 17:01:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA21354; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:56:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:56:08 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <39d650df.25240110 aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:56:00 EDT Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA21255 Resent-Message-ID: <"BtTJU.0.TD5.NSgyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30659 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, thanks for the information about Luxel. John, yes, EUV = Extreme Ultraviolet. According to Stuart Bowyer, an astrophysicist who specializes in the EUV, the EUV begins at about 1000 Å (is that about 12 eV?) and extends shortward to about 100 Å. That's how Mills thinks of it, too, I believe. The subject of EUV comes up because Randell Mills says that EUV is emitted by hydrino-forming reactions. In the Ni/H2O/K2CO3 electrolytic cells, the temperature of the K2CO3 electrolyte was usually below the boiling point. In the electrolytic cells, the strongest EUV would be emitted at about 304 Å, I think. Do you know of something that would show the presence of 304 Å EUV (40.8 eV) in that setup? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 17:01:21 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA21156; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:56:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:56:02 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: <59b1205d.2524010b aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:55:55 EDT Subject: Re: "Levitron" maglev device To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"aF1DS2.0.QA5.ISgyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30658 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:02:04 -0700 (PDT), Bill Beaty wrote: "I'll have to review the two patents, but it is my understanding that Harrigan's toy *WAS* Hones' toy. The Hones version was difficult to poerate because it *WAS* the Harrigan version (except for having a square base.)" Did the Hones patent completely fail to mention Harrigan's work as prior art? If the only difference between the Hones patent and the Harrigan patent was a square base vs. a round base, then I'm surprised that the Hones patent was allowed; and I'd be even more surprised if the Hones patent made no mention of Harrigan's work at all. Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 17:46:48 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA02927; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:44:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:44:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37F2B4CA.3DE6C17F ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:54:34 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mills at ACS Meeting? References: <54a60460.25240106 aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RrRP_2.0.ej.R9hyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30660 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept. 30, 1999 Vortex, The Friday ACS session on electrochemistry will be presided over by Dr. Melvin Miles. It is he that provided the information about Mills organizing a separate session for his presentation on Wednesday, separate from cf presentations on friday. As you can see with the changes going on, there is no time to update the website program listing. I am sure you will not find the names of others added to the Friday list or the shifting of other presentations. You might call up the organizors to find out for Wednesday and Friday. The <> website has the e-mail listing of main individuals organizing the Conference. Registration now is only available at site in Ontario Ca. -AK- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 17:53:01 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05223; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:50:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:50:46 -0700 Message-ID: <19990930005027.87860.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.160] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Questions? about ... Bubbles (fwd) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:50:22 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"wiAau.0.XH1.cFhyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30661 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John writes: > > #1-Q: Bouyancy of excited H2O .... the H2O molecules rise when: > >"the excited H20 molecule reaches bouancy [sic]threshold when the >relative > >density comes to balance." Correct? I know I miss spell a lot. Sorry I'm trying to do better. Many times this keyboard just does not do it, especially here at hotmail. #1-Q No. The excited H20 molecule rises in an attempt to reach buoyancy threshold. As in the hot air balloon description we just got, the atmosphere which is less dense is being pulled down around the molecule, thus pushing it up. Same with a bubble in water. The excited H20 molecule is not useing the heat it is carrying for propulsion. The heat only takes the density off balance. > > > > 1a] Into balance by or of weight? Balance by density, which is a function of weight to size. > > > > #2-Q: Into Balance with respect to What? Air? Yes. > > > > #3-Q: Does this mean a non excited H2O molecule is heavier than > > air? Yes. So is a hot air balloon. It is a heavier than air craft. But weight is relative. That is the part of Einstein's theory that is correct and brilliant. If he had stuck with his gravity constant, and had the frame dragging data we have today, he would have been on top of Whrirlpower in a heartbeat. > > #4-Q: An excited H2O molecule is ... or can be .. lighter than > > air? Relatively speaking, yes. > > 4a-Q: Does it matter if the air is warm or cool? Yes. Warm air is less dense than cool air. Evaporation will happen more rapidly in warm air. > > 4b-Q: Does it matter how much water vapor is in the air? Yes. > > 4c-Q: Does air pressure matter? Yes. > > 4c-Q: If there is wind, does air velocity matter? Yes. > > > > #5-Q: How do we excite the H2O? It is excited by heat. > > #6-Q: What is heat? What causes heat? Heat is an excited electron. In heat from the sun, gravity's pressure ignites the fusion burner. In het from a fire it takes the ignition of mass. > > #7-Q: Q-7 is a set of questions to help us to understand the > >behavior of water. I hope you will also please take the time to relate > >the answers to their equivalency with or for light, if there is one. > >If I have mistaken an equivalency, I apologize and stand corrected. No the action of evaporation and the action of light both come from gravity. And light itelf comes from mass reaching a certian level of pressure due to gravity. Einstein thought originally all energy could be traced back to gravity in his gravity constant. Bachall from Princeton and Perlmutter from Berkeley now have data that backs this up in their "Cosmic Triangle". We now know pretty sure space is fluid. Hawking knows we don't undertand the basics. Firmage knows the big bang theory is science fiction. Rubin points to gravity as the explaination for the unnacounted energy of motion in spiral galaxies. To me it all adds up to "The Gravity Paradigm". If science would endulge my tests, the whirlpool, the up and down light test (Dennard's interferometer), and the bubble generator test, I think the proof will be found. > >Thanks. And thank you. More on rest later. Pressing stuff to take care of. David > > > >From letter .... > > > > " Thinking heat causes evaportion is part of the science fiction > >we were all taught but is simply not true." > > > > Q 7a] When water is liquid what force or forces, or condition or > >conditions cause it to remain a liquid? > > Q 7b] Again, about water.... what force or forces cause water to > >become ice? > > Q 7c] If heat is not responsible for evaporation what is happening > >when we put fire under pot of water? > > Q 7d] What is happening to an egg, in water, if we put a fire > >under it? > > Q 7e] Is there ANY correlation between vaporized water and > >light? > > Q 7f] Is there ANY connection between gravity, light and water? > > > > Q-8] What is the relationship between hot air and helium? Both > >will rise or "lift". > > Q-9] What are the respective properties of > > > > Water > > Water Vapor > > Warm Air > > Cool Air > > Air Pressure > > Helium > > Wind and Wind Velocity > > Light > > Gravity > > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 18:09:49 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA10491; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:07:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:07:14 -0700 Message-ID: <19990930010708.82678.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.160] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bubbles Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:07:08 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"O6ep1.0.nZ2.2Vhyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30662 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince, I'm curious. How does the lift relates to cold or hot days? David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 19:00:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA29526; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:59:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:59:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:03:58 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com cc: John Schnurer Subject: ORDER Fluorescein Dye In-Reply-To: <39d650df.25240110 aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA29507 Resent-Message-ID: <"uarEQ1.0.GD7._Fiyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30663 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See notes, in text, below On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 Tstolper aol.com wrote: > Fred, thanks for the information about Luxel. > > John, yes, EUV = Extreme Ultraviolet. > > According to Stuart Bowyer, an astrophysicist who specializes in the EUV, the > EUV begins at about 1000 Å (is that about 12 eV?) and extends shortward to > about 100 Å. That's how Mills thinks of it, too, I believe. 1,000A is 100 nM ... pretty brifrloo SHORT! This would burn the hide OFF you! > > The subject of EUV comes up because Randell Mills says that EUV is emitted by > hydrino-forming reactions. In the Ni/H2O/K2CO3 electrolytic cells, the > temperature of the K2CO3 electrolyte was usually below the boiling point. In > the electrolytic cells, the strongest EUV would be emitted at about 304 Å, I > think. > I don't think 100 nM would pass the medium, or if it did, then not too far, maybe couple mm. You might mean 304 nm... but that is not EUV. Double check and give the the figure in nano meters... Then I can tell you. I just tested tap water ... passes 245 mercury line fine. > Do you know of something that would show the presence of 304 Å EUV (40.8 eV) > in that setup? > If it IS 304 A [ !!!! Woa!] then why? Seems VERY short. > Tom Stolper > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 19:04:45 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30808; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:02:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:02:57 -0700 Message-ID: <00c401bf0aef$f9a0f500$c5441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater, Glycerol & Propylene Glycol Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:59:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"_rwTb1.0.EX7.GJiyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30664 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Used with, or in place of water, Glycerol (glycerin) M.P. 20 C Boiling Point 290 C, Dielectric constant, 42.5 25 C, (H2O ~82) safely used in food products, may be a good choice for higher temperature experiments. Is this why the triglycerides (fats) in bacon, smoke and seem OU,when you microwave them? :-) Second choice, Propylene Glycol, also used in food products and as a non-toxic antifreeze and for deicing aircraft in place of the VERY TOXIC Ethylene Glycol. Boiling Point, 190 C, Dielectric constant 32 25 C Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 19:19:47 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA04238; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:17:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:17:49 -0700 Message-ID: <00d401bf0af2$14a0a920$c5441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: References: <39d650df.25240110 aol.com> Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:15:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"h7KhD2.0.621.DXiyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30665 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Re: OU Coffee Cup Heater; Fluorescein Dye Tom wrote: > > According to Stuart Bowyer, an astrophysicist who specializes in the EUV, the > EUV begins at about 1000 Å (is that about 12 eV?) and extends shortward to > about 100 Å. That's how Mills thinks of it, too, I believe. That sounds right 12.4 eV to 124 eV. > > The subject of EUV comes up because Randell Mills says that EUV is emitted by > hydrino-forming reactions. In the Ni/H2O/K2CO3 electrolytic cells, the > temperature of the K2CO3 electrolyte was usually below the boiling point. In > the electrolytic cells, the strongest EUV would be emitted at about 304 Å, I > think. > > Do you know of something that would show the presence of 304 Å EUV (40.8 eV) > in that setup? Tough call, Tom. If the organic fluorescent "dyes" are not excited by the EUV excitation of the electrolyte (Compton Scattering etc.) then colloid sized phospors like Calcium Tungstate or such that will float in the electrolyte might do. There are dozens of phosphors listed in the ESPI catalog www.espi-metals.com . Regards, Frederick > > Tom Stolper > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 19:58:24 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA19259; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:57:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:57:07 -0700 Message-ID: <19990930025701.35889.qmail hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [168.150.253.121] From: "David Dennard" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Fwd: Re: Questions? about ... Bubbles (fwd) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:56:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"wA9Tk2.0.ri4.36jyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30666 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is more on John's questions. This may not even have come up yet, I was trying something on this program. First I skipped a question earlier. Sorry, don't mean ignore anyone's questions if I can help it. I sure wish those on this list that could publish my work would not ignore me. I see no others that have a test of principle model, and others get "attention" that don't even offer full disclosure. Long ago these folks, and you know who you are, were informed by someone, actually one of there own, my work deserved more exposure but I think the "Conspiracy of Ignorance" was evoked because I mention the word "God" in my work. Go figure. The earlier question was, is a candle flame the same as light. In my theory you will note that light in the corona, electricity, a lightning strike, and the lasar, are of photon pushing photon. Same in the candle flame. This is analogous to steam, where molecule is pushing molecule. >John writes: > >> > #1-Q: Bouyancy of excited H2O .... the H2O molecules rise when: >> >"the excited H20 molecule reaches bouancy [sic]threshold when the >>relative >> >density comes to balance." Correct? > >I know I miss spell a lot. Sorry I'm trying to do better. Many times this >keyboard just does not do it, especially here at hotmail. > >#1-Q >No. The excited H20 molecule rises in an attempt to reach buoyancy >threshold. As in the hot air balloon description we just got, the >atmosphere which is less dense is being pulled down around the molecule, >thus pushing it up. Same with a bubble in water. The excited H20 molecule >is not useing the heat it is carrying for propulsion. The heat only takes >the density off balance. >> > >> > 1a] Into balance by or of weight? > >Balance by density, which is a function of weight to size. >> > >> > #2-Q: Into Balance with respect to What? Air? > >Yes. >> > >> > #3-Q: Does this mean a non excited H2O molecule is heavier than >> > air? > >Yes. So is a hot air balloon. It is a heavier than air craft. But weight >is relative. That is the part of Einstein's theory that is correct and >brilliant. If he had stuck with his gravity constant, and had the frame >dragging data we have today, he would have been on top of Whrirlpower in a >heartbeat. > >> > #4-Q: An excited H2O molecule is ... or can be .. lighter than >> > air? > >Relatively speaking, yes. > >> > 4a-Q: Does it matter if the air is warm or cool? > >Yes. Warm air is less dense than cool air. Evaporation will happen more >rapidly in warm air. > >> > 4b-Q: Does it matter how much water vapor is in the air? > >Yes. > >> > 4c-Q: Does air pressure matter? > >Yes. > >> > 4c-Q: If there is wind, does air velocity matter? > >Yes. >> > >> > #5-Q: How do we excite the H2O? > >It is excited by heat. > >> > #6-Q: What is heat? What causes heat? > >Heat is an excited electron. In heat from the sun, gravity's pressure >ignites the fusion burner. In het from a fire it takes the ignition of >mass. > >> > #7-Q: Q-7 is a set of questions to help us to understand the >> >behavior of water. I hope you will also please take the time to relate >> >the answers to their equivalency with or for light, if there is one. >> >If I have mistaken an equivalency, I apologize and stand corrected. > >No the action of evaporation and the action of light both come from >gravity. > And light itelf comes from mass reaching a certian level of pressure due >to gravity. Einstein thought originally all energy could be traced back to >gravity in his gravity constant. > >Bachall from Princeton and Perlmutter from Berkeley now have data that >backs >this up in their "Cosmic Triangle". We now know pretty sure space is >fluid. > Hawking knows we don't undertand the basics. Firmage knows the big bang >theory is science fiction. Rubin points to gravity as the explaination for >the unnacounted energy of motion in spiral galaxies. > >To me it all adds up to "The Gravity Paradigm". > >If science would endulge my tests, the whirlpool, the up and down light >test >(Dennard's interferometer), and the bubble generator test, I think the >proof >will be found. > >> >Thanks. > >And thank you. > >More on rest later. Pressing stuff to take care of. > >David >> > >> >From letter .... >> > >> > " Thinking heat causes evaportion is part of the science fiction >> >we were all taught but is simply not true." >> > >> > Q 7a] When water is liquid what force or forces, or condition or >> >conditions cause it to remain a liquid? Heat. But gravity had to be there for water to form in the first place. >> > Q 7b] Again, about water.... what force or forces cause water to >> >become ice? Lack of heat, ect. >> > Q 7c] If heat is not responsible for evaporation what is happening >> >when we put fire under pot of water? Heat is responsible for steam. Gravity is responsible for evaporation. But gravity had to be there for the heat to exist. And the head bone is connected to the neck bone. :) >> > Q 7d] What is happening to an egg, in water, if we put a fire >> >under it? Why does an egg float in sugar water? >> > Q 7e] Is there ANY correlation between vaporized water and >> >light? Yes. >> > Q 7f] Is there ANY connection between gravity, light and water? Everything is connected, GUYA. >> > >> > Q-8] What is the relationship between hot air and helium? Both Both are less dense that the relative density of the of the atmosphere. They would not have much affect in space which is even less dense but more dense that light. >> >will rise or "lift". >> > Q-9] What are the respective properties of >> > >> > Water >> > Water Vapor >> > Warm Air >> > Cool Air >> > Air Pressure >> > Helium >> > Wind and Wind Velocity >> > Light >> > Gravity Already got them covered, and all if you have read my theory you will notice most of this was already covered. But thanks for your questions. I hope you will work up a good reply. David http://www.whirlpower.cc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 21:51:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id VAA21819; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990930005402.00dc89f0 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:54:02 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Speri and Zorzi In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990929142710.00797780 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"l263l2.0.rK5.2mkyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30667 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Vorts, The current issue of IE contains reports of 3 decades of cold fusion prior to P & F, by Drs Peter and Neil Graneau, and as Scott says, the whole issue is quite interesting. What really caught my attention though, was the Speri and Zorzi experiment. In a fascinating report by John Bockris & Eugene Mallove about widespread cold nuclear reactions within nature, there was a brief mention that in 1974 sparking experiments by Speri and Zorzi were performed with an octane-air mixture. An increase in heat output was reported when 3 extra spark plugs were used in the system. According to Speri and Zorzi's calculations, the extra heat was significantly beyond what could be calculated from the chemical reactions, and a tiny amount of deuterium fusion [==> He-4] was assumed to account for the excess heat. I would sure love to learn more about that experiment and if a replication is planned at NERL or anywhere else. Compared to most cold fusion experiments, this one-- at least on first blush-- seems the easiest to incorporate into existing combustion systems :-) Best, Colin Quinney From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 23:12:10 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA04091; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:11:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:11:26 -0700 Message-ID: <19990930061448.26491.rocketmail web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:14:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Schaffer Subject: Re: Quantum Leap To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"LFRJH2.0.j_.Dylyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30668 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: >Speaking of which... I got involved in a late night gab-fest with Dan Y., >a local electrical engineer, regarding the modeling of atoms as >electrically short dipole resonator/antennas. It's a classical/waves >atomic model, in other words. He pointed out that if the "Q" of an atom >is high, then the time constant is long, and it takes far longer for the >atom to accumulate energy from the EM fields of the light waves. If the >"Q" of the atom is infinite, then it cannot accumulate energy at all. > >Huh. Yes, classically the higher the Q, the longer it takes the oscillating energy to build up to its final value. This reduces bandwidth, too, a property used for tuning. In quantum mechanics, time and energy trade off, and a high Q system has a longer time over which a given event is probable. For example, a collection of atoms all excited to a given high Q state decay to a lower state with a longer half life than a similar collection in a low Q state, and the energy spread of the high Q state photons is narrower than from the low Q state. > when a macroscopic resonator is going into exponential growth as it > intercepts energy via the "Energy Sucking Antenna" process, perhaps the > infinite "Q" of the RLC circuit impacts the speed of such growth. In the classical infinite Q resonator (R=0) the energy absorbed by the resonator keeps rising as long as there is driving energy. It never stops, so it never reaches a limit, but this takes infinite time. No mystery. With a bit of loss, the energy starts out increasing as if Q were infinite, but eventually the stored energy stops increasing and reaches a limit. This is where the energy dissipated per cycle equals the energy supplied by the driver per cycle. No free lunch. If you are going to use the energy, it can't be faster than the driving or receiving rate. In an antenna, high Q allows one to make an antenna physically smaller for a given wavelength, but it can't capture energy that isn't there. ===== Michael J. Schaffer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Sep 29 23:59:25 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10930; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:58:44 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:04:38 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990928063305.6815.qmail hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: Whirlpower Cosmology Resent-Message-ID: <"Cv0YS2.0.bg2.aemyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30670 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I find it real hard to believe science has never built one and tested it >before, but after years of searching and thousands of archived pages and >numerous lists the story is still, no data found. And even stranger, hardly >anyone sees the significance or even cares to find out. What a sad thing to >have lost all curiosity. David; Have you studied Walter Russell's Cosmogony? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 00:00:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id XAA10510; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:58:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:58:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:04:15 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3439145d.2521c3eb aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas Malloy Subject: Re: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? Resent-Message-ID: <"DVRuZ3.0.8a2.Eemyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30669 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >This is the best I can come up at the moment. Suggestions for improvement >are welcome. All information shared is/will be public domain. > >Trevor Sleath I'm not qualified to comment on your design. Have you ever read Walter Baumgartner's book? Walter seems to dropped out of sight, but there is a German academic who has a webpage with similar designs posted on it. If you are interested I'll look for the URL. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 00:06:29 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA16449; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:05:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:05:54 -0700 X-Sender: knuke mail.lcia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Brookhaven Experiment Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:13:26 -0400 Message-ID: <19990930071326687.AAA285 mail.lcia.com@lizard> Resent-Message-ID: <"chjId2.0.o04.Hlmyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30671 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Re: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/FredMoody/moody_current.html > >That is a cute illustration at the top of article. The reporter's >experience with haughty scientists sounds true to form. I liked the part about peoples' concern about their social schedules. > >I think these people at Brookhaven are being irresponsible. If there is >even the slightest chance this test could result in a catastrophe, they >need to stop and review the situation carefully, in consultation with the >entire scientific community. They should do this in public via Internet. >Then, after everyone nods assurance, they can proceed with perfect >confidence to blow up the world. (Or implode it, I guess.) > >- Jed Got to agree with you on this one. Moody no sooner published, and the Mars Explorer "got lost" by our "best and brightest" at NASA. Losing a very expensive chunk of hardware once in a while is inevitable, and something that we can live with, provided that it doesn't happen all the time. Even losing a manned expedition once in a while, as horrible as that has been, is also inevitable, but a calculated risk that is agreed upon by the people taking the risk. These "scientists" were educated and continue to work in an environment where mentioning the name "Tesla" or the words "Cold Fusion" could get them fired. How stupid can they be? Putting millions of people at risk, and possibly all of mankind, without even asking the general public if they are willing to take the risk is beyond irresponsible. It should be made criminal. There are no real reasons for anyone on this planet to do this type of experiment on Earth when the phenomenon can be observed in space from a safe distance. The only reason this type of project exists is to funnel obcene amounts of public money directly to defense contractors. It's called Pork. What can be learned scientifically is negligable. The funding of these types of phoney projects increased dramatically during the Reagan administration, but continues unabated and unchecked to this day. The misdirection of FEMA funds to dig thousands of miles of underground tunnels for the military was another example of our government wasting hundreds of millions and more on foolishness while simultaneously throwing mentally and physically disabled people into the street to pay for it. The Superfund project is another incredible example, and Yukka Mountain is yet another. The sum total just of what has been publically revealed to have been misdirected is staggering. These projects should be investigated and the people responsible for them charged with theft of public funds. It's that simple. Our country had the opportunity and the means to feed, clothe, house, and educate every person on this planet at one time, and our corporate and governmental leadership decided to steal the money instead. They should be taken down. Knuke Michael T. Huffman Huffman Technology Company 1121 Dustin Drive The Villages, Florida 32159 (352)259-1276 knuke LCIA.COM http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 04:54:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA11121; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:53:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:53:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:53:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: What IS the B-2 miracle? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gtEu73.0.cj2.3zqyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30672 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I posted about this Sep 27. The miraculous attributes of the B-2 aircraft are the following -Subsonic yet faster than any other plane. (This is no paradox. Read on.) -High price (What did USAF pay for? What is so valuable?) -World coverage from only 3 bases Miracle 1 is the important one. How can it be subsonic and still outfly anything else? Because the air around the plane is moving along with the aircraft! By repelling the air around the craft with a magnetic field it is possible to avoid a lot of airdrag. To increase speed is to decrease airdrag. This technology will make it possible to commute Sweden - USA in less than 30 minutes with low fuel consumption. Lets work for it. David David Jonsson Phone +46-18-24 51 52 Fax +46-18-24 51 56 GSM +46-706-339487 E-mail david bahnhof.se Uppsala, Sweden Web: http://bahnhof.se/~david/ Postgiro 499 40 54-7 On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, John Schnurer wrote: > > The header said 'er! > > Dear Vo., > I obviously missed something. > > What miracle IS there about the B-2? What is the miracle, and > what is elplained? > > Thanks, > Confused, as usual, John From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 05:18:28 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA16157; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:16:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:16:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:16:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Invisible substance formula In-Reply-To: <00f701bf09ae$c293f860$9f8e1d26 fjsparber> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JumHH2.0.Ny3.NIryt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30673 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I saw on television once a substance made out of some gel that was solid but had the same refractive index as air so it appeared invisible. Can someone tell me how to produce this medium? If I remember correctly they used a gel (gelatin in Swedish) which they mixed with alcohol. Then they used high pressure during several hours. David David Jonsson Phone +46-18-24 51 52 Fax +46-18-24 51 56 GSM +46-706-339487 E-mail david bahnhof.se Uppsala, Sweden Web: http://bahnhof.se/~david/ Postgiro 499 40 54-7 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 05:57:51 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA25094; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:56:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:56:47 -0700 Message-ID: <37F35DCE.FEA8E240 verisoft.com.tr> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:55:42 +0300 From: hamdi ucar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,tr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: abstract gr-qc/9909087 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------32838AF2B06CE46A79AFD987" Resent-Message-ID: <"clBEA.0.y76.Furyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30674 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------32838AF2B06CE46A79AFD987 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9909087 --------------32838AF2B06CE46A79AFD987 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="9909087" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="9909087" abstract gr-qc/9909087

General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract
gr-qc/9909087

From: Steven Carlip <carlip@dirac.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:38:40 GMT   (10kb)

Aberration and the Speed of Gravity

Authors: S. Carlip
Comments: 8 pages, LaTeX, one figure using LaTeX picture environment; reference added
Report-no: UCD-99-17

Based on the observed absence of gravitational aberration, Van Flandern has recently argued that gravity has been experimentally shown to propagate at a speed of at least $2\times10^{10}c$. But the translation from directional observations to propagation speed is theory-dependent, and Van Flandern has made implicit assumptions about a model for gravitation that do not hold for general relativity. By explicitly computing the gravitational effect of an accelerating mass in general relativity, I show that the gravitational aberration is almost exactly canceled by velocity-dependent interactions, and that nothing need propagate faster than light. I discuss the underlying cause of this cancellation: it is required by conservation laws and by the quadrupole nature of gravitational radiation.

Paper: Source (10kb), PostScript, or Other formats

(N.B.: delivery types and potential problems)

refers to , cited by

Links to: arXiv, gr-qc, /find, /abs (-/+), /9909, ?



www-admin@arXiv.org

--------------32838AF2B06CE46A79AFD987-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 06:52:27 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA10779; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:51:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:51:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: What IS the B-2 miracle? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9jFhU.0.Le2.thsyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30675 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear David J, What the Bleet Hawses are you talking about? AND: Where does this information come from? The rest of you guys can address the aero matters.... On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, David Jonsson wrote: > I posted about this Sep 27. > > The miraculous attributes of the B-2 aircraft are the following > > -Subsonic yet faster than any other plane. (This is no paradox. Read on.) > -High price (What did USAF pay for? What is so valuable?) > -World coverage from only 3 bases > > Miracle 1 is the important one. How can it be subsonic and still outfly > anything else? Because the air around the plane is moving along with the > aircraft! By repelling the air around the craft with a magnetic field it > is possible to avoid a lot of airdrag. To increase speed is to decrease > airdrag. > > This technology will make it possible to commute Sweden - USA in less than > 30 minutes with low fuel consumption. Lets work for it. > > David > > David Jonsson Phone +46-18-24 51 52 Fax +46-18-24 51 56 > GSM +46-706-339487 E-mail david bahnhof.se > Uppsala, Sweden Web: http://bahnhof.se/~david/ Postgiro 499 40 54-7 > > > On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, John Schnurer wrote: > > > > > The header said 'er! > > > > Dear Vo., > > I obviously missed something. > > > > What miracle IS there about the B-2? What is the miracle, and > > what is elplained? > > > > Thanks, > > Confused, as usual, John > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 06:57:06 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA13166; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:56:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:56:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:00:53 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer Reply-To: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Invisible substance formula In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HYjbe2.0.eD3.6msyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30676 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear David, Can you give us the infromation on the time and date and name of the TV show? If correct they probably mean a sol-gel . Silica gel is an example. Go to the library and read about Sol Gels. I am curious as to RI, or Refractive Index materials of air! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 07:09:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA17535; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:08:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:08:26 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:12:56 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: EUV Re: OU In-Reply-To: <39d650df.25240110 aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RqbFo3.0.vH4.Qxsyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30677 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Folks, What is the temperature and other environment in the 'may be making EUV' place? You can try diamond dust, abou t15 USD for small, maybe 1/2 gram at lapidary. OR: If you know someone in a hospital get old X ray cassette, has X ray phosphor on it, in organics, often La doping. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 07:17:58 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA21301; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:17:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990930101500.00797dc0 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:15:00 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Ben Bush: High Performance Calvet Calorimetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id HAA21280 Resent-Message-ID: <"HOkmo1.0.hC5.W3tyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30678 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is the text of an abstract that Ben Bush handed out at a conference. This is important information and I do not see a copyright, so I will post the whole thing. Ben is one of the best CF scientists around, and a real wiz at calorimetry, so y'all should listen up. - Jed High Performance Calvet Calorimetry Ben Bush, Ph.D., University of Texas, Austin, TX 78712 - A5300 High performance Calvet calorimetry is recommended for research on the Pons and Fleischmann effect, owing to the methods many attributes. The chief attribute of high performance Calvet calorimetry is that it measures essentially all the heat flow in such a manner that temperature homogeneity is irrelevant, thus one escapes the isoperibolic requirement for thermal homogeneity. The device is in effect a box wherein each of the six walls of the box are thermal flux transducers. Thus, the heat flows out of the box from the electrolysis cell to the thermostatic water bath by passing through a contiguous envelope of thermal flux transducers. If, by some means, all the heat flowed through the bottom thermal flux transducer the response of the device would be the same as if an equal fraction of the same amount of heat flowed through each of the six thermal flux transducers; because the electrical response of the thermal flux transducers are linear. [Figure text: Differential Thermocouples in Series] 3 X 3 X 9 CM DEVICE DYNAMIC RANGE: ~10 mW - hundreds of Watts ACCURACY: +/- 10 mW or 0.5% TIME CONSTANT (l/e): ~5 min => 1/2 hour to equilibrate Figure 1: Schematic of high performance Calvet calorimeter. The device consists of a contiguous thermal flux transducer envelope. The thermal flux transducers sense thermal flux as the sum of the voltages set up across differential mode thermocouples, as shown. The thermocouples are placed across a thermally insulative layer so that heat flowing through the thermal flux transducer creates a difference in the emf s (voltage) of the inside and outside thermocouples of each differential pair. There are over a hundred differential thermocouple pairs per square inch of the Seebeck (TM) thermal flux transducers, so that the series sum voltage of all the differential mode thermocouples in the contiguous thermal flux transducer envelope give a very good linear representation of all the thermal flux; as a single voltage. The reason for describing the device as an integrating thermal flux transducer envelope calorimeter (above) is to stress its fundamental advantage over isoperibolic calorimetry. There is no need to worry with temperature measurement accuracy because the Calvet method measures the sum total of the thermal flux as a single voltage. This makes the method particularly amenable to computer data acquisition. High performance Calvet calorimetry is marketed under the registered trademark "Seebeck" by Thermonetics Corp., (Reachable at (619) 453-5483 ), Box 9112, San Diego, CA 92169. These devices are recommended because they are known to work for long term usage, as is encountered in studies of the Pons and Fleischmann effect. A major difficulty in calorimetry which must operate for thousands of hours at a time is corrosion, particularly with regard to the environment associated with an electrolytic cell. Recent testing has shown that our anti-corrosion technology is effective. The ruggedized Thermonetics Seebeck calorimeter is very reliable. In order to be successful in research it is essential to be able to perform enough experimental work to be cost effective. Generally, operating four calorimeters in parallel via computer data acquisition is recommended. Fine instrumentation is costly and there is a tendency to look for cheaper technologies. One technology of note uses Peltier devices as thermal flux transducers, because the Peltier devices (e.g. Melcor "refrigichips") cost 1/10th what Seebeck thermal flux transducers cost. It has been my bitter experience that Peltier devices fail in the most miserable and insidious fashion possible! Their electrical response changes gradually over time so that meaningful calibration is impossible. It is known that the Navy bought such Peltier based calorimetry commercially, but could never make them work. Several man years have been wasted on Peltier based calorimeters; stick with the real Calvet type thermal flux transducer. Calvet/Seebeck thermal flux transducers consist of a series circuit of differential mode thermocouples placed across a thermal insulator (FIGURE 1). In the Seebeck technology over a hundred differential thermocouple pairs are used per square inch of thermal flux transducer. The enormous number of differential mode thermocouple pairs allows high sensitivity with minimal thermal insulation between the hot and cold sides thermocouples; therefore tiny heat fluxes can be measured as well as large heat fluxes, i.e. the device has an enormous dynamic range. Consider the 3 X 3 X 9cm Seebeck high performance Calvet calorimeters I use. I can measure from a few milliwatts to hundreds of Watts (dynamic range) with these devices, although generally I operate below 10 Watts. Accuracy is about ± 10 mW or ±0.5%; naturally, the precision is better than the accuracy. Large Seebeck calorimeters are less sensitive than small Seebeck calorimeters. These devices can be made in any reasonable size or shape, and their operating physics remains unchanged; thus, Seebeck calorimetry is very adaptable. A special version of this technology can operate at over 800 C (red hot in a furnace!). The time constant / response speed of Seebeck calorimeters is very fast because they are not heavily insulated like isoperibolic calorimeters. The 3 X 3 X 9cm device has a l/e time constant of about 5 minutes, which means it will come to thermal equilibrium in under half an hour (by contrast the typical isoperibolic calorimeter has a l/e time constant of 1/2 hour and takes ~3 hours to reach equilibrium). High performance Calvet calorimetry is the method of the future. It is extremely adaptable, and the most fundamental method known. It has the highest dynamic range and fastest response of any applicable method, and is very accurate. Because the entire thermal flux is represented as a single voltage, computer data acquisition is simplified. The thermal flux transducer envelope can be any size or shape, because thermal homogeneity is unnecessary. Calvet calorimetry is literally the critics method of choice, and represents the state-of-the-art. I prefer to operate with the calorimeters submerged in a water bath, because this provides for reliable long term temperature stability. Further, because I am concerned with the helium produced by the excess heat generating reaction, I find it particularly useful to submerge the calorimeters in water, because helium is less soluble in water than in air and I can sparge the helium out of the water by bubbling liquid nitrogen boil-off gas through the enclosed water continuously to keep atmospheric contamination out. Circulator/controllers providing ± 0.01 C temperature stability are available for about $1,000, and provide years of dependable trouble free service. Submersion in the water bath largely circumvents the need for room temperature stabilization (a temperature stabilized room costs about $250K to install); all that is necessary is that the room temperature fluctuate slowly so as to not "upset" the circulator/controller. Further, because thermal flux is measured instead of temperature, exact measurement of temperatures is unnecessary. Although high performance Calvet calorimetry seems expensive, it is actually quite economical because of its great performance and labor efficiency. By using Seebeck calorimeters one may focus on the science; because the calorimeter serves the researcher instead of the researcher serving the calorimeter. Further, because any size or shape of high performance Calvet calorimeter will work perfectly; one escapes from the endless quibbling about whether the calorimeter works. Freedom from endless obfuscation, as happens with isoperibolic calorimetry, is a great advantage of high performance Calvet calorimetry. High performance Calvet calorimetry is the most fundamental and rigorous method known. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 07:49:54 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA00973; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:48:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:48:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990930094654.010afea4 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:46:54 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Ben Bush: High Performance Calvet Calorimetry In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990930101500.00797dc0 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"W8gEe2.0.7F.jWtyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30679 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A Calvet calorimeter is also known as a Seebeck Envelope. Thermonetics advertises one in IE (page 1 of the latest issue). The concept is good but they're certainly not infallible. In order to get a nice steady reading from one, you have to maintain the entire exterior of it at a nice steady temperature. Additionally, the claimed immunity to thermal homogeneity is strongly dependent upon the design of the system...and upon the execution of the design. If the thermal resistance of the envelope is not uniform, i.e. if heat flows out of one side of the box easier than the other sides, then the system WILL be sensitive to thermal homogeneity of the experiment. We rented a unit from Thermonetics years ago and it exhibited a rather severe sensitivity to thermal homogeneity. We could make the reading vary by a factor of two by moving a constant-power calibration heat source from one side of the box to the other. A well-designed water-flow calorimeter captures all the heat emerging from the experiment just as effectively as a Seebeck envelope. The Seebeck envelope is possibly superior to a water-flow system for low power experiments. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 08:21:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA14047; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:19:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: <013d01bf0b5f$50c43da0$c5441d26 fjsparber> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Subject: Bubble Formulae Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:17:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0B24.9AB45160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"b6fkp2.0.PR3.G-tyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30680 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0B24.9AB45160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/bubbles/formulae.html ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0B24.9AB45160 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Bubble Formulae.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Bubble Formulae.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/bubbles/formulae.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/bubbles/formulae.html Modified=A0BA4E3A5F0BBF010C ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF0B24.9AB45160-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 09:07:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA00855; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:06:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:06:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990930110449.0069e814 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:04:49 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Dennis Lee is on the road! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tCSLN1.0.HD._fuyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30681 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Check out http://www.teslaelectriccompany.com Apparently Dennis Lee is already immersed in his US tour of demonstrations of his 200% efficient motor which capitalize on the 4th Law of Motion. Today he's in Kansas City, tomorrow Springfield, MO, Saturday Tulsa, etc. I am hoping some Vorts along his route will attend one of these demos and report back. My turn won't come until he visits Dallas Oct 30 or Houston Nov 1. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 09:27:39 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08985; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:26:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:26:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990930122458.0079fa70 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:24:58 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Ben Bush: High Performance Calvet Calorimetry In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990930094654.010afea4 mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990930101500.00797dc0 pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_i45X3.0.FC2.gyuyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30682 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have not actually used a Calvet calorimeter, so I cannot vouch for the performance myself. I am relating here what Ben Bush told me. Scott Little writes: In order to get >a nice steady reading from one, you have to maintain the entire exterior of >it at a nice steady temperature. Bush describes this in his note. He submerges the entire thing in a constant temperature bath. He says this also ensure "long term temperature stability" Additionally, the claimed immunity to >thermal homogeneity is strongly dependent upon the design of the >system...and upon the execution of the design. Yes. The commercially available systems are well designed and built, according to Bush and others who have used them. Building one from scratch is extremely difficult and time consuming, according to Oriani, who did it. I strongly recommend buying off-the-shelf equipment whenever possible. If you have the money and the equipment meets your needs, buy it, don't try to make it. >A well-designed water-flow calorimeter captures all the heat emerging from >the experiment just as effectively as a Seebeck envelope. I disagree. It is much harder to capture *all* the heat with a flow calorimeter, so it has to be very well designed -- some notches up from "well-designed." Also the mechanical moving parts ensure that more can and will go wrong with a flow calorimeter. Tubes and flowmeters will clog, flow rates will change, cooling water will leak. >The Seebeck envelope is possibly superior to a water-flow system for low >power experiments. It works over an amazingly wide range of power, according to Bush, from milliwatts to hundreds of watts. A flow calorimeter designed to measure milliwatts or watt would be destroyed at such high power. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 11:30:22 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA27796; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:28:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:28:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37F3AC42.3E5F0E1D bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:30:26 -0400 From: Terry Blanton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Japan Nuclear Accident Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yLN3W.0.Eo6.Rlwyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30683 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: http://cnn.com/ASIANOW/east/9909/30/japan.nuclear.04/ <><><><><><><><><><><> Thousands told to stay indoors after Japan nuclear accident Officials fear atomic reaction ongoing; plant workers injured October 1, 1999 Web posted at: 1:41 a.m. HKT (1741 GMT) In this story: U.S. working with Japan on response Earlier accident in same area RELATED STORIES, SITES TOKAIMURA, Japan (CNN) -- Tens of thousands of residents in a northeastern Japanese town were warned to stay indoors Thursday as government officials feared a nuclear reaction was continuing at a damaged uranium reprocessing plant. "We are now making every effort to stop the reaction," said Toru Nakahara of the Japanese Science and Technology Agency. Fourteen workers and five residents were treated for radiation exposure in Tokaimura, about 120 kilometers (70 miles) northeast of Tokyo. Two workers were in critical condition. The reaction was set off when workers mixed too much uranium with nitric acid in a storage tank, officials from JCO Co. said. The officials said 16 kilograms (35 pounds), instead of 2.4 kilograms (5 pounds), were used. Officials said radiation levels were too high -- 4,000 times higher than normal -- to allow operators to get inside the plant. Nakahara said that when workers are able to get inside the plant, they will attempt to drain water from the tank in the hope of stopping the nuclear reaction. Water, he explained, magnifies the radiation, making the nuclear reaction possible. Local officials told residents within a ten-kilometer (six-mile) radius of the plant to stay in their homes after rains began washing down radiation that escaped from the facility. Schools and transportation services in the region were shut down. More than 300,000 people have been affected by the order. About 150 people were evacuated from the immediate vicinity of the plant, one of 15 nuclear-related plants in Tokaimura. Officials from the Ibaraki Prefecture, the local state government, said radiation levels were 10 times higher than normal outside the plant, but had been as high as 10,000 times above normal shortly after the accident. U.S. working with Japan on response U.S. officials told CNN that the State Department and Department of Energy are working closely with the government of Japan on the response to the accident. Nuclear experts from the Energy Department are in contact with Japanese energy and emergency response officials, and U.S. Embassy officials in Japan are helping to coordinate any additional U.S. assistance. Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiromu Nonaka said late Thursday that there was "strong possibility" of a "criticality incident" -- meaning the point at which a nuclear chain reaction becomes self-sustaining. Nonaka said that the accident could be the worst in Japan's history. The workers at the plant reported seeing a blue light, and then they became ill. They were first taken to a local hospital, and later flown to a hospital that specializes in radiation sickness. Hisashi Ouchi, 35, and Masato Shinohara, 39, were listed in critical condition, hospital officials said. The two were in a state of shock with fever and diarrhea. Earlier accident in same area The accident was not the first in Tokaimura. A "very serious" fire and explosion occurred on March 11, 1997. Officials said the fire was extinguished within 16 minutes, but that some radiation escaped. Thirty-seven workers suffered radiation poisoning in that accident. The village of Tokaimura has a population of around 34,000 people. The 1997 accident prompted Japanese nuclear industry trade unions to call for closer supervision of the industry. The world's worst nuclear accident occurred April 26, 1986, when an explosion and fire at the Chernobyl power plant in Ukraine spewed radiation over much of Europe. Thirty-one people died in the immediate aftermath of the accident and hundreds of thousands were evacuated from area. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 11:43:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA01403; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:40:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:40:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990930144444.00e39990 inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney inforamp.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:44:44 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Colin Quinney Subject: Speri and Zorzi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6ie3P1.0.nL.mwwyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30684 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Ed, Jed, & Gene, et all; That should have read: "I would sure love to learn more about that experiment and if a replication is planned at Infinite Energy or anywhere else." NOT: "I would sure love to learn more about that experiment and if a replication is planned at NERL or anywhere else." I was searching for George Miley's name on the NERI Awards Site while I wrote that, and it somehow got transposed into my post. Thanks, Colin Quinney From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 13:55:05 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10536; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:51:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:51:10 -0700 From: Tgsleath aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:50:57 EDT Subject: Re: Water Vortex Facts or Fiction? To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Resent-Message-ID: <"Oz9Iq2.0.Ya2.-qyyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30685 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/30/99 12:00:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, temalloy metro.lakes.com writes: << Have you ever read Walter Baumgartner's book? Walter seems to dropped out of sight, but there is a German academic who has a webpage with similar designs posted on it. If you are interested I'll look for the URL. >> I havn't read the book. I'll check it out. You may be thinking of Prof Evert. He has a site www.evert.de TS From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 13:58:17 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA11817; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:53:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:53:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990930165209.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:52:09 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Japan Nuclear Accident In-Reply-To: <37F3AC42.3E5F0E1D bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8pO82.0.Zu2.Htyyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30686 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is awful. If they saw the blue flash, I think they are goners. The lastest from the Yomiuri site says that radiation is 15,000 times above normal 2 km from the plant, not 1,000 to 10,000, as previously reported. In English: http://www3.yomiuri.co.jp/index-e.htm In Japanese http://www3.yomiuri.co.jp/newsj/0930it12.htm - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 14:23:32 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA07174; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:13:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:13:30 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990930170251.012b1960 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:02:51 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Japan Nuclear Accident In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990930165209.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> References: <37F3AC42.3E5F0E1D bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qnYHV3.0.0m1.w9zyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30687 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here are three sites that work with more info. TOKAIMURA, Japan - Officials check radiation measuring devices sent Sept. 30 to a local community center in Tokaimura, Ibaraki Prefecture, that houses residents who fled their homes following a major radiation leakage at a uranium processing plant in Tokaimura. According to the Japan Atomic Energy Research Institute, 2-4 millisievert of neutron per hour -- equivalent to 10,000 to 20,000 times the normal level of radiation -- was detected on the plant's premises on Thursday evening. -- (Kyodo) http://home.kyodo.co.jp/ http://news.excite.com/news/r/990930/06/nuclear-japan and http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/japannuclear990930.html Mitchell Swartz ================================================= At 04:52 PM 9/30/99 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: >This is awful. If they saw the blue flash, I think they are goners. > >The lastest from the Yomiuri site says that radiation is 15,000 times above >normal 2 km from the plant, not 1,000 to 10,000, as previously reported. > >In English: http://www3.yomiuri.co.jp/index-e.htm >In Japanese http://www3.yomiuri.co.jp/newsj/0930it12.htm > >- Jed > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 14:27:30 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA26522; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:24:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:24:59 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990930162359.00d3d048 mail.eden.com> X-Sender: little mail.eden.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:23:59 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Scott Little Subject: Re: Japan Nuclear Accident In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990930165209.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> References: <37F3AC42.3E5F0E1D bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"tvyf71.0.HU6.hKzyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30688 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:52 PM 9/30/99 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: >This is awful. If they saw the blue flash, I think they are goners. Probably right. That news article indicated that the two closest guys got 8 Sieverts, which is 800 rem. The LD50 (dose that kills half) is around 600 rem so those guys are in serious trouble. At the boundary around the facility they measured .84 milliSv/hr...which is 84 mR/hr, an exposure rate which would make me leave...quickly. Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc. http://www.eden.com/~little Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759, USA 512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little eden.com (email) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 14:39:16 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA12563; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:35:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:35:48 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990930173420.00798a30 pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:34:20 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Japan Nuclear Accident In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990930165209.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> References: <37F3AC42.3E5F0E1D bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"giSyu2.0.D43.qUzyt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30689 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here are a few technical details from the English Yomiuri web page article. - JR The [Science and Technology] agency said the amount of radiation detected along the boundary of the facility boundary was 0.84 milli sieverts (Sv) per hour or 4,000 times the normal level . . . The acceptable level of exposure to radiation for the average person is set at 1 milli Sv per year. As of 5:05 p.m., the neutron level at the southwestern boundary of the facility was as high as 4 milli Sv per hour--about 20,000 times the acceptable level. After learning of the extremely high reading, the Nuclear Safety Commission and Science and Technology Agency suspected that a new round of criticality had occurred at the facility. The radioactive leakage occurred in a room of the JCO facility where uranium hexafluoride, imported from France, was being processed with a nitric acid solution to dispose of contaminating substances. To avert a criticality incident, workers are required to keep no more than 2.4 kilograms of uranium in the settling basin. But according to an eyewitness report, about 16 kilograms of uranium were contained in the basin at the time of the accident. Agency officials said they were checking the report. According to the hospital attached to the National Institute of Radiological Sciences, two of the exposed workers are in serious condition, being barely conscious. The two men, aged 35 and 39, were suffering from leukopenia, with the lympathic levels in their white blood cells having plummeted to around 2 percent from the normal level of 40 percent, doctors said. In light of their serious condition, the workers likely suffered an exposure level of more than 8 Sv, compared to the 1.6 milli Sv considered normal for the average Japanese over the course of a year. Excessive exposure to radiation is said to be fatal. Experts said 90 percent of people exposed to levels over 6 milli Sv die within two weeks. . . . At the facility, uranium hexafluoride, an ingredient of uranium fuel that is used to generate nuclear power, was being converted into uranium oxide powder. . . . the workers who were exposed to radiation had been working on a type of uranium fuel for the Joyo fast-breeder reactor in Oaraimachi, Ibaraki Prefecture. Joyo is the country's first expertimental fast-breeder reactor. At about 10:30 p.m., East Japan Railway Co. suspended train service between Mito and Hitachi on the Joban Line because of the accident. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 15:27:31 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA26749; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:26:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:26:23 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <1beaade0.25253459 aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:47:05 EDT Subject: Re: Bubbles To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"oOwWw1.0.tX6.EE-yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30690 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/29/99 6:09:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daviddennard hotmail.com writes: > I'm curious. How does the lift relates to cold or hot days? > > David Cold days=more lift, hot days=less lift. The colder air is, the more dense it is. (air molecules packed closer together than relatively hotter air) A few years back when the temperature at Phoenix Airport went to 122 degrees F they had to close the airport because the very hot air was so (un-dense?) aircraft would have needed a runway 8 miles long to get to a takeoff speed of over 250 miles per hour to get necessary lift.(And 250 miles per hour is very bad for aircraft tires, including your nerves trying to steer down a runway at that speed) :) Pressure altitude was (if I remember correctly) was something like 16,000 feet.(not sure) Pressure altitude is really important if you are a pilot and want to stay alive (I am, and I do)(Bold pilots ignore density altitude) The greater the temperature differential between the air inside the balloon and the outside air, the greater the lift. Hot air inside the balloon is less dense (less mass or weight) so gravity pulls less (it is lighter after all because there are less molecules of air in there),hence it will rise (just like a bubble of air will rise in water) The volume of air displaced by the balloon weighs more than the air inside the balloon. Same reason a boat floats; the volume of water displaced by the boats volume weighs more than the boat. Basically, if the air temperature is equal to the air temperature inside the balloon, there will be no lift.(mass of volume displaced=mass of volume inside the balloon, ignoring the weight of the balloon structure itself) Enuf rambling. Regards, Vince Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 15:35:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA30374; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:32:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:32:10 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <37F3E3D8.3844 ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:27:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Nuclear radiation accidnets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sj2nI1.0.NQ7.fJ-yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30691 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sept 30, 1999 Vortex, In Japan, what kind of mistake is it to be mixing 16 kg versus 2.4 kg? Crazy. More details are needed. Like anything else, routines deadens the alertness to dangers, I guess. Chernoble #2 coming up ??? Some rumor level news is coming out of Art Bell that the containment vessel at Chernoble is crumbling --- . Then there is the matter of the growing 'foam' crust in the radioactive waste disposal underground container in the US (Hanford) threatening to bust that container soon. And the scientists don't know exactly what is going on for the crust growth. Meanwhile, research funds into cold fusion continues to go begging. And the National Ignition Facility (gold deuterium balls and lasers) is going way over budget, behind schedule, and not sure if the design is going to work or not. -ak- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 15:42:35 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA00936; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:40:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:40:29 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:44:59 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bubbles In-Reply-To: <1beaade0.25253459 aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2p8E71.0.UE.SR-yt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30692 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fro DAVE DENNING Dear Dave, How does the ballon lift in your theory? Can you compare it with Vince's description, below? Is there what anything wrong with Vince's description? On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 VCockeram aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/29/99 6:09:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > daviddennard hotmail.com writes: > > > I'm curious. How does the lift relates to cold or hot days? > > > > David > > Cold days=more lift, hot days=less lift. The colder air is, the more dense > it is. (air molecules packed closer together than > relatively hotter air) > > A few years back when the temperature at > Phoenix Airport went to 122 degrees F they > had to close the airport because the very > hot air was so (un-dense?) aircraft would > have needed a runway 8 miles long to get > to a takeoff speed of over 250 miles per > hour to get necessary lift.(And 250 miles per > hour is very bad for aircraft tires, including > your nerves trying to steer down a runway at > that speed) :) > > Pressure altitude was (if I remember correctly) was something like 16,000 > feet.(not sure) > > Pressure altitude is really important if you > are a pilot and want to stay alive (I am, and I do)(Bold pilots ignore > density altitude) > > The greater the temperature differential between the air inside the balloon > and the outside air, the greater the lift. > > Hot air inside the balloon is less dense (less mass or weight) so gravity > pulls less (it is lighter after all because there are less molecules of air > in there),hence it will rise (just like a bubble of air will rise in water) > > The volume of air displaced by the balloon weighs more than the air inside > the balloon. > > Same reason a boat floats; the volume of water displaced by the boats volume > weighs more than the boat. > > Basically, if the air temperature is equal to the air temperature inside the > balloon, there will be no lift.(mass of volume displaced=mass of volume > inside the balloon, ignoring the weight of the balloon structure itself) > Enuf rambling. > > Regards, > Vince Cockeram > Las Vegas Nevada > i From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 17:59:04 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA08456; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:57:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:57:18 -0700 From: Tstolper aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:57:12 EDT Subject: Re: Bubbles To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"eBDUi.0.242.kR0zt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30693 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vince, You haven't posted anything about your experiment in quite a while. How are things coming along? Tom Stolper From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 18:08:09 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA11791; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:05:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:05:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: mjones pop.jump.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990930173420.00798a30 pop.mindspring.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990930165209.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> <37F3AC42.3E5F0E1D bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:02:33 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Jones Subject: Re: Japan Nuclear Accident Resent-Message-ID: <"NSCyi1.0.8u2.hZ0zt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30694 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [snip] > >The radioactive leakage occurred in a room of the JCO facility where >uranium hexafluoride, imported from France, was being processed with a >nitric acid solution to dispose of contaminating substances. To avert a >criticality incident, workers are required to keep no more than 2.4 >kilograms of uranium in the settling basin. But according to an eyewitness >report, about 16 kilograms of uranium were contained in the basin at the >time of the accident. [snip] > >At the facility, uranium hexafluoride, an ingredient of uranium fuel that >is used to generate nuclear power, was being converted into uranium oxide >powder. [snip] ***{I don't follow the logic of the above. How does one produce a self-sustaining chain reaction by merely adding too much UF6 to a nitric acid solution? Here is the only possibility that comes to mind: (1) UF6 + 6HNO3 --> U + 6HF + 6NO2 + 3O2 (or something similar). (2) The U then settles out at the bottom of the solution where, because an excessive amount of UF6 was used, it forms a critical mass and irradiates the hell out of everybody in the vicinity. The above scenario requires that the Japanese be using *weapons grade* uranium (almost entirely U235) rather than the mildly enriched uranium (still mostly U238) that is used in nuclear power plants. But since nobody uses weapons grade uranium in a nuclear power plant, it would seem that the Japanese have managed to overcome their Hiroshima and Nagasaki induced aversion to nuclear weapons, and are actively, if rather incompetently, pursuing a nuclear weapons development program. If anybody sees something that I have missed, re the above, please speak up. --Mitchell Jones}*** From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 19:02:53 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA30784; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:01:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:01:17 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990930215128.00894e20 world.std.com> X-Sender: mica world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:51:28 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Japan Nuclear Accident In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990930173420.00798a30 pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.19990930165209.0079b100 pop.mindspring.com> <37F3AC42.3E5F0E1D bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"84Z56.0.nW7.iN1zt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30695 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://208.138.42.193/forum/a37f3c8642da6.htm Those who dont learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Sep 30 19:50:13 1999 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA09214; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:45:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:45:54 -0700 From: VCockeram aol.com Message-ID: <63a65a69.25257a5e aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:45:50 EDT Subject: Re: Bubbles To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"owhug2.0.tF2.Y12zt" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/30696 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 9/30/99 5:58:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Tstolper aol.com writes: > You haven't posted anything about your experiment in quite a while Right now waiting on order of K from supplier, preparing quartz tubes and getting notes in order. Vince Cockeram